From jid at westnet.com.au  Sat Nov  1 04:32:34 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 19:32:34 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Mashiach at the gates of Rome.]
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sat Nov  1 04:38:29 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 19:38:29 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Mashiach at the gates of Rome.]
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sat Nov  1 17:10:52 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 08:10:52 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] WANTON AND CRUEL DESTRUCTION.
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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Sat Nov  1 22:11:54 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 19:11:54 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] "Hey Noah, Nice Boat"
Message-ID: <855590370811012011v5ff196ccl49c8a18b6e864e33@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Noah, Nice Boat Cheshvan 1, 5769, 30 October 08 12:23
by by Levi Chazen

(IsraelNN.com)

The sun rose in the sky as it has since "time immemorial." Another perfect
day, not a cloud on the horizon.

"Hey Noach, where's that great flood that you have been talking about for
the longest time?" his neighbours taunted him. "Good thing you got that
boat, Noach, looks like rain," they mocked.

Noach himself was starting to have second thoughts; here, after working for
the past 120 years preparing for this day, the day that the flood was
supposed to start, lo and behold, it turns out to be a day like any other
day in Gotham City.

As our rabbis teach us, Noach believed, yet did not believe, and only
entered the ark when the waters started to rise. In fact, every day during
the generation of the Flood was picture-perfect. Crops from the field would
last for 40 years, never did it rain, nor was it cold, but they enjoyed an
all-around spring-like temperature. All this was bestowed upon them by the
goodness of *HaShem*, to give them the perfect conditions for them to serve
Him. Yet they used this very gift to rebel against G-d.

*HaShem* even granted them an additional seven days' respite before bringing
the Flood upon the world, so that maybe, just maybe, this time they would do
*teshuvah *and return to Him. This, too, did not help. Finally, on the 17th
of Marhesvan, the first cloud appeared on the horizon, small and
insignificant; but maybe this would be the wake-up call to return to *HaShem
* and the world could be spared. Slowly, the heavens were filled with dark
clouds and the first rains began to fall. Slowly at first, as the first
rains were rains of blessings, maybe now that they started to see rain they
would return, and G-d would leave it as is - a rain of blessings.

But they refused to see it as a G-dly sign, even though the warnings of the
past years were now being fulfilled; they went about their business as
usual. When the rains persisted, instead of returning to *HaShem* they
gathered at the site of the ark, trying to enter; and when they could not,
they tried to destroy it. Finally, the time to repent was over, the Gates of
Mercy were closed, Noach was taken up into the ark, the door was shut and
the rains quickly turned to acid. The world was lost, all was destroyed.

In spite of the fact that the people of the generation of the Flood were
forewarned for years and even as the warnings were being fulfilled - an
amazing aspect of human nature comes to light - they still continued to deny
that this was G-d-sent and acted as if all the events were natural
occurrences.

The next generations continued in this folly of seeing everything as a
natural occurrence, instead of being the Hand of G-d. The generation of
Dispersion had a rational explanation for every event that ever occurred.
They stated that once every 1,656 years - the time between the Creation and
the Flood - the heavens shake, causing a flood. So, to prevent the heavens
from collapsing again, they decided they must take precautions by building
supports, and the Tower of Babel was to be the first.

As G-d had given the generation of the Flood, time and time again, chances
to repent, so too he gave the generation of the Tower of Babel time to
repent, for there was peace and friendship among them. Still, they did not
return to Him and heed His warnings, and so punishment was meted out to
them.

In our day, some 4,000 years later, we unfortunately continue down this
path. Far too few really believe that G-d is the all-powerful Mover of
history who plays a real part in our daily lives. For many, religion has
become a nice object that we place somewhere on the back burner, to be taken
out at will, but not to be taken too seriously.

There is a G-d of history, who has returned His people, as described by the
prophets, back to their land. And there is a G-d who is bringing the Final
Redemption to the world, one way or another. And He does play a daily part
in all our lives. Now is the time to see His handwriting on the wall, as He
turns out the lights in the exiles. Now is *not* the time - as the "Wall"
comes tumbling down - to say this is just a natural occurrence. And as the
"god of the bear market" falls fast, it is up to us to see G-d's handwriting
on the wall and to grab up this extra time that He has given us to return to
Him and to His land. It is still not too late.
 www.IsraelNationalNews.com <http://www.israelnationalnews.com/>
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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Sun Nov  2 03:35:08 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 01:35:08 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] "Midnight Reflections"
Message-ID: <855590370811020135j45e1761cq213be2f5d9ccc592@mail.gmail.com>

Midnight Reflections
By HaRav Ariel Bar Tzadok. Copyright (c) 2008 by Ariel Bar Tzadok. All
rights reserved.     Regardless of what you may think, we are living in
difficult times. Preparing for the worse to come however does not mean
surrendering to fear or negativity. On the other hand, the best way to face
a negative future is with a positive attitude. No matter how bad things may
appear or actually become, just remember this, G-d is in control of it all.
G-d is in control of us too. All we have to do is to keep focused on this.
Here is where our preparations need to be.

No one knows what tomorrow may bring. Will there be military conflict? Will
there be political, social and economic upheavals? Are there other factors,
natural or otherwise that can pop up in a moment and cause for us great
changes? No one but Heaven has the answers to these questions. We must
always remember that we are never in control of what happens to us. We are
however in complete control of how we choose to respond to whatever happens
to us.

A positive attitude is vitally important. Yet, attitude alone is not enough.
Our personal outlooks and hope for salvation and a promising future are
sometimes our greatest strengths. Without inner strength, all forms of outer
strength become nothing more than hollow shells. The difference between
survival and disaster often depends most on one's personal point of view.
With a proper positive attitude, rooted in realism and not in idealistic
denials, one can face any uncertain future and knowing that G-d is by one's
side, march forward into the unknown without any fear.

Changing one's attitude is not an easy thing, especially when the worries
and problems facing us seem insurmountable. Yet, it is at just these times
of challenge that we can unleash the best that is inside us. We cannot
always have what we want all the times that we want it. We cannot always
hold onto a past that is fading away. We cannot always demand that things
stay the same when life and the natural order dictate that they always be in
a constant state of flux and change. Life is about movement. Death is about
stagnancy.

It is always hard letting go of a past that is so comfortable, safe and
secure. Going forth from Egypt is today a psychological condition in which
we must learn to face detachment from a comfortable past that still holds us
in slavery to many things, never allowing us to find true inner emancipation
and freedom. Being attached to so many things, be they wealth, comfort, or
the attitudes that cultivate them, these are the modern day temptations that
keep our eyes focused on our modern day Egypt and prevents us from realizing
the exodus and path to inner Sinai and the spiritual promised land.

In times of great change, much of the old will have to be left behind, in
order to embrace the new. Many will have great choices ahead of them; to
embrace the new and live or to hold on to the old and go down with the
sinking ship. Choices are hard, but we as individuals are defined by the
choices we make. Our character is shown by what we do and how we do it. Talk
is cheap. Even the right words if spoken at the wrong time will lead to the
right people making the wrong decisions. Be careful of comforting words.
Never allow them to be used to lull one into a sense of security, when no
such security exists. Never dismiss words of alarm when there is smoke, for
as we all know, where there is smoke, there is fire.

In times of fire, those who fight the flames with wisdom and planning
usually live to talk about it. Those who panic and flee usually lose
everything, even that which did not have to burn. People of faith whose
security is in G-d will know when it is time to fight the fire and when it's
time to let the fire take its course. Never confuse the two. When dealing
with fire, every moment counts.

Cultivate peace of mind. Explore inner space. Learn to meditate, to
contemplate Torah day and night. Learn the techniques of controlling your
mind and your emotions. Learn to recognize what is intuitively true and how
your mind can play tricks on you to lull you into a state of complacency.
Learn to detach; learn to change; learn to move on; learn to let go, and
most of all; learn how to recognize when all these things need to be done.

Learn these things without panic, without fear; with total peace of mind and
comfort of heart. Know that G-d is with you and that if you are truly with
Heaven, then you will be like a dancer in a ballet, sensitive to the
choreographed flow of moves that direct you through your dance of life.

Sometimes it is time to close the books and to open your eyes. Sometimes it
is wise to see change before it happens. Sometimes it is best to not have
one's proverbial eggs all in one basket. Sometimes diversifying before a
crisis is the best way to weather it.

It is not for me to tell anyone what to do or how to do it. My only message
is that one must reinforce their efforts to cultivate a living awareness of
G-d and His Presence. One must strengthen one's faith and be ready to act
upon that faith however is necessary. Talk is cheap and complacency is
death. Torah is life and its ways are action.

Let us keep our eyes upon the rising sun and remember that the land
underneath it is our home. Where the Earth and sky meet, there is where we
must reside. Faith is our ticket home. Trust in Heaven and live by Torah.
Silence your tongue and cry out with your heart. Let go of your burdens that
weigh you down and soar on eagle's wings back home. Go on high, for this is
the way to the place where the sun rises from the Earth. There is no place
like home and if not now, then when?

-------------------------------------

Shalom, HaRav Ariel Bar Tzadok
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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Sun Nov  2 03:42:55 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 01:42:55 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] Ever wonder what rainfall depends upon?
Message-ID: <855590370811020142j3107e76dl23a751a05f9aed82@mail.gmail.com>

Shalom v'Boker tov,

            We all know how desperately Israel depends upon rain, now in the
"rainy season."  But have you ever wondered what the *rain *depends upon?
               * Hanoch*
**

[image:
http://trailer.web-view.net/Links/0X9255110B2EBCB80ECE5679AFFA33D1DED4C2FA5406120838CD210282E35A379F1BE0A71F7DEBF9B2632C099CF4CBA0BA6CF7692C2F5B52A25515544A71326F50.htm]<http://trailer.web-view.net/Links/0X9255110B2EBCB80ECE5679AFFA33D1DED4C2FA5406120838CD210282E35A379F1BE0A71F7DEBF9B2632C099CF4CBA0BA6CF7692C2F5B52A25515544A71326F50.htm>

Rainfall and the Power of Collective Kindness
Rabbi Uzi Kalchaim zt"l

The Shiur was given on Sivan 5768
Summarized by students

Dedicated to the memory of
*R' Meir b"r Yechezkel Shraga Brachfeld zt"l*

We have seen that receiving rain depends upon our moral level. We have also
considered some remarkable individuals who would entreat God for rain,
people on a very high spiritual level whose merit was great enough to bring
rain.

We will now consider a simple story that probably speaks to all of us, a
story that shows how we too can be involved in the request for rain. The
story comes from the life of Rabbi Tanchuma, the master of Midrash (Torah
interpretation), in his work "Midrash Tanchuma."

In Rabbi Tanchuma's days there was a drought. The people came to the rabbi
and asked him to declare a public fast. He did so. A number of days passed
and still no rain fell. Rabbi Tanchuma went and spoke before the people,
saying, "My children, fill yourselves with mercy for one another, and the
Holy One, blessed be He, will be filled with mercy for you."

In other words, the rabbi told the members of the community that if they
would be good to one another, kind to each other, the Holy One, blessed be
He, would show kindness to them in return.

The story continues:
"Now, while they were distributing charity to the poor they saw a man give
money to his divorced wife. So they went to him [Rabbi Tanchuma] and
exclaimed, 'Why do we sit here while such misdeeds are perpetrated!'

'What have you seen?' he asked.

'We saw So-and-so give his divorced wife money.'

He summoned them and asked him, 'Why did you give money to your divorced
wife?'

'I saw her in great distress,' replied he, 'and was filled with compassion
for her.'

Upon hearing this Rabbi Tanchuma turned his face upward and exclaimed:
'Sovereign of the Universe! This man, upon whom this woman has no claim for
sustenance, saw her in distress and was filled with compassion for her. Now,
seeing that of You it is written, "The Lord is full of compassion and
gracious" (Psalms 103:8), and we are Your children, the children of Your
beloved ones, the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, how much more
should You be filled with compassion for us!' Immediately the rain descended
and the world enjoyed relief."

This story comes to teach us that rainfall depends on us too. We may not be
on the same level as the extremely righteous who are able to bring rain
through their prayers, but rainfall depends on our conduct as well, our
mutual consideration and the kindness we show to one another.

It finds expression in our daily lives. When you reach an intersection, you
can be stubborn or you can yield to your fellow. If you are standing in
line, you can push aside or allow yourself to be pushed aside. If we know
how to show kindness to one another, God will show kindness to us, rains
will fall and the world will enjoy relief.
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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Sun Nov  2 03:58:17 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 01:58:17 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] The 2 State Illusion
Message-ID: <855590370811020158p26f69739vb56ba69acb6404ca@mail.gmail.com>

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The Two-State Illusion Cheshvan 2, 5769, 31 October 08 02:42
by by Noam Bedein

(IsraelNN.com) In early September 2008, in my capacity as the head of the
Sderot Media Center, I was invited to take part in a press conference in the
Norwegian capitol of Oslo, together with the Israeli Ambassador to Oslo,
members of the Norwegian media and members of the Norwegian Parliament. The
title of the press conference was: "Iran: At Sderot's Back Door."

It was at that Oslo press conference that the "rocket reality" was presented
before Norwegians for the first time, showing the western Negev region as
the only place in the Western world where rockets and missiles are fired at
citizens on almost a daily basis. Of these attacks, 97% are launched by
Palestinian militias from the convenient cover of civilian homes in Gaza.
Their weapons come directly from Iran, with their delivery to Gaza
facilitated by Syria and Egypt. This is how Hamas became Tehran's "third
arm," after Hizbullah in Lebanon.

While Norwegian parliament members showed sympathy and said that they more
clearly understood Sderot and Gaza, they also rationalized the Gaza rocket
reality with the commonly held illusion that "if the Palestinians would be
able to have their own independent state - in the West Bank and Gaza - this
would bring peace and security to both sides and the firing on Israel would
stop."

In other words, firing missiles towards Israel is justified because of the
lack of a Palestinian state, since the West Bank is still "occupied". From
an Israeli perspective, then, promoting the "two-state solution" plays into
their hands and gives Europeans and their parliamentarians a way to justify
ongoing rocket fire towards Israel. This also gives nations around the world
a justification to continue to aid the Palestinian Authority, which now
receives the largest proportionate aid compared with any people of a similar
sized population.

Indeed, the Norwegian government provided 100 million dollars to the PA over
the past year, even after it was proven that much of this budget reaches the
hands of Hamas, which openly uses these allocations to finance terrorism.

When PR firms that represent the Israeli government's policy approach the
international media with the claim that Israel must support the "two-state
solution," this gives Hamas and all the Palestinian terror networks the
legitimacy that they need to continue their operations against Israeli
civilians. In other words, supporting the two-state solution supports the
financing of terror. Therefore, when PR firms advocate this Israeli
government policy it works against the interests of Israeli society and
certainly against the people of Sderot and the western Negev.

In fact, the "two-state solution" is mistakenly used by Israel's advocates
to justify Israel's approach to peace - pursued even under fire as a
political solution. But when Israel's advocates support a two-state solution
while Sderot and the western Negev remain under constant missile threat -
especially after Israel pulled out all Jewish communities and Israeli army
bases from the Gaza Strip in August 2005 - they are simply ignoring the fact
that 7,000 missiles have been fired towards Israel from the *de
facto*Palestinian state spawned in Gaza over the past three years.

That is what a two-state solution means - giving Israel's enemies a
convenient base from where they can terrorize Israel's civilian population,
in defiance of international law. The Western world's media, and even the
Israeli media, refer to the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, taken by Israel in
1967, as the territories that are in dispute, while Hamas, all of the other
Palestinian terror groups and the Palestinian Authority itself define Sderot
and the western Negev as "occupied territory" as well. They do not recognize
the territory that Israel acquired in 1948, an integral part of the
sovereign state of Israel.

In the words of the press statement that Hamas issued on the November 26,
2006, the day before the last ceasefire commenced (during that ceasefire,
which lasted for six months, more than 300 missiles were fired towards
Israel): "We will not stop firing on the Zionist settlement Sderot until the
last citizen of Sderot leaves."

Meanwhile, the Palestinian Authority's 'Palestine Map', which can be
purchased in any PA office, replaces Sderot with pre-1948 Najd, Ashkelon is
replaced by al-Majdal, and Ashdod is replaced by Isdod.

The fact is that when Israel was established, and war was forced upon it,
territories were taken by Israel in the Israel War of Independence. The
Palestinian "right of return" refers to the return of Palestinian refugees
to the territories of 1948. Meanwhile, the PA schools books show no rights
for Jews living in the land of Israel, no mention of the history of the Jews
in the land of Israel.

These are the basics of the conflict which need to be dealt with. Questions
need to be raised, followed by their answers. The basics that need to be
taught, first of all to Israeli society, the foreign press, parliament
members, government officials and world public opinion.

By what right was the State of Israel established? What were the historical
and legal rights of the Jewish people to the land of Israel? And what has
the Palestinians refugee problem persisted, like no other in the world?

It is the responsibility of anyone who speaks for Israel to emphasize that
during the late 1940s, more than 40 million refuges around the world were
resettled, except for one people. They remain defined as refugees, wallowing
60 years later in 59 UNRWA refugee camps, financed by 400 million dollars
contributed by nations of the world to nurture the promise of the "right of
return" to Arab neighborhoods and Arab villages from 1948 that no longer
exist. The Palestinian propaganda line of their "inalienable right of
return" remains un-addressed and, for the most part, recognized by every
state in the world, which blindly vote for annual UN resolutions that
support this specious premise.

While millions of dollars are spent to find the best way to 'please' the
American public with matters of the Arab-Israeli conflict, the basics of the
conflicts are not being questioned.

No nation in the world would tolerate even one rocket being launched towards
its territory; yet, that is what Israel is asked to accept as an integral
part of its existence, since the supposed root of the problem is that the
Palestinian Arab people do not have a state of their own. If Israel's
advocates were to make things more understood, we would be able to tell the
world that the Arab League and its Palestinian terror clients are continuing
the war to obliterate Israel that they declared in 1948.

The current "ceasefire" with the Palestinian regime in Gaza is scheduled to
end on December 19. After that, everyone expects the Palestinians to resume
their attacks, in order to "liberate" the rest of Palestine - not to
facilitate a two-state solution.
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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Sun Nov  2 06:50:18 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 04:50:18 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] "Is America really going to do this?"
Message-ID: <855590370811020450u6557142aw1572e23c41993747@mail.gmail.com>

Is America really going to do this?
Melanie Phillips
October 24, 2008

The impact of the financial crisis on the American presidential election has
somewhat obscured the most important reason why the prospect of an Obama
presidency is giving so many people nightmares. This is the fear that, if he
wins, US defences will be emasculated at a time of unprecedented
international peril and the enemies of America and the free world will seize
their opportunity to destroy the west.

Personally, I don't give any credence to the 'support' for one candidate
over the other that has been expressed by the enemies of civilisation (Iran
and Hamas 'support' Obama, while an al Qaeda blogger 'supports' McCain).
Their agenda is simply to sow confusion and promote American recriminations
and disarray. Nor do I set much store by many of the remarks made by either
candidate during the latter stages of this election campaign, since under
this kind of pressure both will now say pretty much anything to win it. The
New York Times has run a useful analysis of the candidates' foreign policy
campaign statements which shows how Obama has carefully tacked to the 'hard
power' agenda while McCain has in turn nodded towards 'soft power'.

No, the only way to assess their position is to look at each man in the
round, at what his general attitude is towards war and self-defence,
aggression and appeasement, the values of the west and those of its enemies
and ? perhaps most crucially of all ? the nature of the advisers and
associates to whom he is listening. As I have said before, I do not trust
McCain; I think his judgment is erratic and impetuous, and sometimes wrong.
But on the big picture, he gets it. He will defend America and the free
world whereas Obama will undermine them and aid their enemies.

Here's why. McCain believes in protecting and defending America as it is.
Obama tells the world he is ashamed of America and wants to change it into
something else. McCain stands for American exceptionalism, the belief that
American values are superior to tyrannies. Obama stands for the expiation of
America's original sin in oppressing black people, the third world and the
poor.

Obama thinks world conflicts are basically the west's fault, and so it must
right the injustices it has inflicted. That's why he believes in 'soft
power' ? diplomacy, aid, rectifying 'grievances' (thus legitimising them,
encouraging terror and promoting injustice) and resolving conflict by
talking. As a result, he will take an axe to America's defences at the very
time when they need to be built up. He has said he will 'cut investments in
unproven missile defense systems'; he will 'not weaponize space'; he will
'slow our development of future combat systems'; and he will also 'not
develop nuclear weapons,' pledging to seek 'deep cuts' in America's arsenal,
thus unilaterally disabling its nuclear deterrent as Russia and China engage
in massive military buildups.

McCain understands that an Islamic war of conquest is being waged on a
number of diverse fronts which all have to be seen in relation to each
other. For Obama, however, the real source of evil in the world is America.
The evil represented by Iran and the Islamic jihadists is apparently all
America's fault. 'A lot of evil's been perpetuated based on the claim that
we were fighting evil,' he said. Last May, he dismissed Iran as a tiny place
which posed no threat to the US -- before reversing himself the very next
day when he said Iran was a great threat which had to be defeated. He has
also said that Hezbollah and Hamas have 'legitimate grievances'. Really? And
what might they be? Their grievances are a) the existence of Israel b) its
support by America c) the absence of salafist Islam in the world. Does Obama
think these 'grievances' are legitimate?

To solve world conflict, Obama places his faith in the UN club of terror and
tyranny, which is currently fuelling the murderous global demonisation of
Israel for having the temerity to defend itself and is even now preparing
for a rerun of its own anti-Jew hate-fest of Durban 2, which preceded 9/11
by a matter of days.

McCain understands that Israel is the victim rather than the victimiser in
the Middle East, that it is surrounded by genocidal enemies whose
undiminished intention is to destroy it as a Jewish state, and that is both
the first line of defence against the Islamist attack on the free world and
its most immediate and important target.

Obama dismisses the threat from Islamism, shows zero grasp of the strategic
threat to the region and the world from the encirclement of Israel by Iran,
displays a similar failure to grasp the strategic importance of Iraq, thinks
Israel is instead the source of Arab and Muslim aggression against the west,
believes that a Palestinian state would promote world peace and considers
that Israel ? particularly through the 'settlements' ? is the principal
obstacle to that happy outcome. Accordingly, Obama has said he wants Israel
to return to its 1967 borders ? actually the strategically indefensible 1948
cease-fire line, known accordingly as the 'Auschwitz borders'.

Obama would thus speak to Iran's genocidal mullahs without preconditions on
his side (the same mullahs have now laid down their own preconditions for
America: pull all US troops out of the Middle East, and abandon support for
'Zionist' Israel) but has said he would have problems dealing with an
Israeli government headed by a member of Israel's Likud Party. In similar
vein, it is notable that Obama opposed the congressional resolution
labelling the Iranian Revolutionary Guards a terrorist organization, which
passed the Senate by a wide margin with support from both parties. And had
he had his way, there would have been no 'surge' in Iraq and America would
instead have run up the white flag, with the incalculable bloodbath and
strengthening of the jihad that would have followed.

Obama assumes that Islamic terrorism is driven by despair, poverty,
inflammatory US policy and the American presence on Muslim soil in the
Persian Gulf. Thus he adopts the agenda of the Islamists themselves. This is
not surprising since many of his connections suggest that that the man who
may be elected President of a country upon which the Islamists have declared
war is himself firmly in the Islamists' camp. Daniel Pipes lists Obama's
extensive connections to Islamists in general and the Nation of Islam in
particular, and concludes with this astounding observation:

Obama's multiple links to anti-Americans and subversives mean he would fail
the standard security clearance process for Federal employees. Islamic
aggression represents America's strategic enemy; Obama's many insalubrious
connections raise grave doubts about his fitness to serve as America's
commander-in-chief.

The hatred that these Islamist connections entertain towards Israel is
reflected amongst Obama's own advisers. With one notable exception in Dennis
Ross, whose late arrival in Camp Obama suggests a cosmetic exercise designed
to allay alarm among Israel supporters, his advisers are overwhelmingly not
only hostile to Israel but perpetrate the loathesome canard that Jews have
too much power over American policy.

The former Carter adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, for example, not only
denounced Israel's war against Hezbollah thus:

I think what the Israelis are doing today [2006] for example in Lebanon is
in effect? maybe not in intent ? the killing of hostages

but also supports Mearsheimer and Walt's notorious smear that the Jews have
subverted America's foreign policy in the interests of Israel. Merrill
McPeak, vice chairman of Obama's campaign and his chief military adviser,
has similarly blamed problems in the Middle East on the influence of people
who live in New York City and Miami (guess who) whom no 'politician wants to
run against' and who he says exercise undue influence on America's foreign
affairs. Most revolting of all is Samantha Power, a very close adviser whom
Obama fired for calling Hillary a 'monster' but who says she still expects
to be in Obama's administration. Not only has Power has advocated the ending
of all aid to Israel and redirecting it to the Palestinians, but she has
spoken about the need to land a 'mammoth force' of US troops in Israel to
protect the Palestinians from Israeli attempts at genocide (sic) -- and has
complained that criticism of Barack Obama all too often came down to what
was 'good for the Jews'.

There are, alas, many in the west for whom all this is music to their ears.
Whether through wickedness, ideology, stupidity or derangement, they firmly
believe that the ultimate source of conflict in the world derives at root
from America and Israel, whose societies, culture and values they want to
see emasculated or destroyed altogether. They are drooling at the prospect
that an Obama presidency will bring that about. The rest of us can't sleep
at night.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/2545716/is-america-really-going-to-do-this.thtml

=============================================
Women For Israel's Tomorrow  (Women in Green)
POB 7352, Jerusalem 91072, Israel
Tel: 972-2-624-9887 Fax: 972-2-624-5380
mailto:wfit2 at womeningreen.org
<wfit2 at womeningreen.org>http://www.womeningreen.org
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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Sun Nov  2 07:00:54 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 05:00:54 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] Michael Jackson for President
Message-ID: <855590370811020500u47c9d4e1i821441074267fb1f@mail.gmail.com>

>From the 'Samson Blinded' site...
          *  Hanoch*
**
Michael Jackson for President
Posted By Obadiah Shoher On November 2, 2008 (8:04 am) In society

Whether or not Hussein Obama is elected American president, the fact of him
coming close to it is disturbing. Even if Obama fails now as voters take
racial issues and common sense into account at the last moment, they are
getting used to the idea of being ruled by a demagogue alien. Voting for
Obama includes a break with several core cognitive patterns: the racial one
(and don't tell me you would like your daughter to marry a decent African),
the religious one (Protestants and atheists voting for Muslim-turned-radical
Christian), and one from the enemy crowd (America is at war with two Muslim
states).

The most significant part of Obama's success is that it formalizes the
parting with American values. The country no longer insists on its cultural
identity. But societies are formed around cultural values and broken around
their absence. The post-Obama America will be different from the previous
one. After Obama, the discussion on illegal immigration loses its sense:
with the alien president, America can as well admit tens of millions of
aliens who swarm it like the barbarians encroached upon the Roman Empire.
>From the right of settlement to subsidies to ruling the country, modern
barbarians are taking over the United States.

Obama will not be necessarily anti-American or pro-Muslim. He's the type
familiar to Jews: a rootless person who despises his national and religious
connections and would readily serve any strong master. We have plenty of
such Jewish anti-Semites: Kissinger, Miller, Miliband, etc.

It's not critical, either, that Obama follows in the steps of Jimmy Carter
whose policies have universally failed and who's branded an anti-Semite. The
voters are entitled to errors. The only problem with Obama's election is
that Americans succumb to foreign values.

It will be interesting to see whether Obama's election would produce a
lasting Obamamania of Michael Jackson's type or the immediate backlash as he
of course fails to meet the high expectations. The latter outcome seems
probable as Obama inherits a very problematic economy with no chance of
repairing it. But President Roosevelt remained popular even as his absurd
economic policies pounded the economy into recession.

The damaged economy proved to be a boon to Obama: the normally pro-McCain
working-class voters see Obama as a Harvard messiah even though McCain's own
fortune is a better indicator of his economic senses. The working-class
Americans imagine that a cosmopolitan with Muslim connections and Harvard
diploma will lower the gas price and solve their woes. Desperate, they come
to trust the opinion of Obama's college-educated supporters. They also
erroneously see him as set against the Wall Street sharks who brought down
the economy ? as if he doesn't receive his donations from the rich. Obama
will disappoint them. His high score in Harvard has no bearing on practical
matters, as seen from his indiscriminate affiliation with thugs and
radicals.

Education increases horizons, brings new perspectives, and abrogates
traditional values. As the population is increasingly college-educated, it
becomes cosmopolitan, loves rootless Obama, and scorns traditional McCain.
Scores of immigrants also support Obama, a fellow immigrant. The support is
probably less among traditionalist Chinese and racist Russian immigrants.

Obama is new, which is important when voters lost hope in lying politicians,
especially after the years of Bush's cynicism. With Democrats and
Republicans responsible for Fannie Mae crisis, the political system corrupt
and closed to change, Obama the outsider seems the only hope for change.

Obama's case demonstrates just how wrong the system of primaries is.
Alternatively, a party must choose its candidate depending on the other
party's choice. McCain could beat Hillary easily, but a different type of a
candidate is required to beat Obama. In primaries, the voters may be offered
to choose pairs: our candidate would be X if the opponent fields the
candidate A, or Y if he fields the candidate B.

Obama is very bad for Israel. He firmly opposes a strike on Iran, and
recalls the idealist and anti-Semitic Carter who wrangled from us the Sinai.
His range of advisors includes the people most unfriendly to Israel with
great passion for rights of Palestinian terrorists. The fact that the
majority of American Jews intend to vote for Obama in the time of a nuclear
crisis testifies to the futility of Holocaust education.
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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Sun Nov  2 09:32:03 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 10:32:03 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Michael Jackson for President
In-Reply-To: <855590370811020500u47c9d4e1i821441074267fb1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <855590370811020500u47c9d4e1i821441074267fb1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS3721D0A020C26B8273E18BA220@phx.gbl>

It seems that O supporters are blind to his deficits.  Followers don't seem to notice his partial-birth abortion policy, his terrorist affiliations or atrocious "former" pastor's racist ranting.   Amazingly, they choose not to see any short-comings in this young, messianic figure.  There are even T-shirts with his picture and the slogan, "Kingdom Come" on the front.  What kingdom is coming commiserate with these things?  

While neither a gung-ho McCain backer, nor a staunch Republican, I feel pressed to vote for McCain, to avoid identifying with O. 

Pat

   


From: Hanoch Young 
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:00 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] Michael Jackson for President


>From the 'Samson Blinded' site...
            Hanoch

Michael Jackson for President
Posted By Obadiah Shoher On November 2, 2008 (8:04 am) In society

Whether or not Hussein Obama is elected American president, the fact of him coming close to it is disturbing. Even if Obama fails now as voters take racial issues and common sense into account at the last moment, they are getting used to the idea of being ruled by a demagogue alien. Voting for Obama includes a break with several core cognitive patterns: the racial one (and don't tell me you would like your daughter to marry a decent African), the religious one (Protestants and atheists voting for Muslim-turned-radical Christian), and one from the enemy crowd (America is at war with two Muslim states).

The most significant part of Obama's success is that it formalizes the parting with American values. The country no longer insists on its cultural identity. But societies are formed around cultural values and broken around their absence. The post-Obama America will be different from the previous one. After Obama, the discussion on illegal immigration loses its sense: with the alien president, America can as well admit tens of millions of aliens who swarm it like the barbarians encroached upon the Roman Empire. From the right of settlement to subsidies to ruling the country, modern barbarians are taking over the United States.

Obama will not be necessarily anti-American or pro-Muslim. He's the type familiar to Jews: a rootless person who despises his national and religious connections and would readily serve any strong master. We have plenty of such Jewish anti-Semites: Kissinger, Miller, Miliband, etc.

It's not critical, either, that Obama follows in the steps of Jimmy Carter whose policies have universally failed and who's branded an anti-Semite. The voters are entitled to errors. The only problem with Obama's election is that Americans succumb to foreign values.

It will be interesting to see whether Obama's election would produce a lasting Obamamania of Michael Jackson's type or the immediate backlash as he of course fails to meet the high expectations. The latter outcome seems probable as Obama inherits a very problematic economy with no chance of repairing it. But President Roosevelt remained popular even as his absurd economic policies pounded the economy into recession.

The damaged economy proved to be a boon to Obama: the normally pro-McCain working-class voters see Obama as a Harvard messiah even though McCain's own fortune is a better indicator of his economic senses. The working-class Americans imagine that a cosmopolitan with Muslim connections and Harvard diploma will lower the gas price and solve their woes. Desperate, they come to trust the opinion of Obama's college-educated supporters. They also erroneously see him as set against the Wall Street sharks who brought down the economy ? as if he doesn't receive his donations from the rich. Obama will disappoint them. His high score in Harvard has no bearing on practical matters, as seen from his indiscriminate affiliation with thugs and radicals.

Education increases horizons, brings new perspectives, and abrogates traditional values. As the population is increasingly college-educated, it becomes cosmopolitan, loves rootless Obama, and scorns traditional McCain. Scores of immigrants also support Obama, a fellow immigrant. The support is probably less among traditionalist Chinese and racist Russian immigrants.

Obama is new, which is important when voters lost hope in lying politicians, especially after the years of Bush's cynicism. With Democrats and Republicans responsible for Fannie Mae crisis, the political system corrupt and closed to change, Obama the outsider seems the only hope for change.

Obama's case demonstrates just how wrong the system of primaries is. Alternatively, a party must choose its candidate depending on the other party's choice. McCain could beat Hillary easily, but a different type of a candidate is required to beat Obama. In primaries, the voters may be offered to choose pairs: our candidate would be X if the opponent fields the candidate A, or Y if he fields the candidate B.

Obama is very bad for Israel. He firmly opposes a strike on Iran, and recalls the idealist and anti-Semitic Carter who wrangled from us the Sinai. His range of advisors includes the people most unfriendly to Israel with great passion for rights of Palestinian terrorists. The fact that the majority of American Jews intend to vote for Obama in the time of a nuclear crisis testifies to the futility of Holocaust education.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Sun Nov  2 10:04:14 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 11:04:14 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] "Is America really going to do this?"
In-Reply-To: <855590370811020450u6557142aw1572e23c41993747@mail.gmail.com>
References: <855590370811020450u6557142aw1572e23c41993747@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS6ADD7EE70897EABDEA263BA220@phx.gbl>

Thank you, Hanoch.  Taken from the article below:

"Most revolting of all is Samantha Power, a very close adviser whom Obama fired for calling Hillary a 'monster' but who says she still expects to be in Obama's administration. Not only has Power has advocated the ending of all aid to Israel and redirecting it to the Palestinians, but she has spoken about the need to land a 'mammoth force' of US troops in Israel to protect the Palestinians from Israeli attempts at genocide (sic) -- and has complained that criticism of Barack Obama all too often came down to what was 'good for the Jews'."




From: Hanoch Young 
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:50 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] "Is America really going to do this?"


Is America really going to do this?
Melanie Phillips
October 24, 2008


The impact of the financial crisis on the American presidential election has somewhat obscured the most important reason why the prospect of an Obama presidency is giving so many people nightmares. This is the fear that, if he wins, US defences will be emasculated at a time of unprecedented international peril and the enemies of America and the free world will seize their opportunity to destroy the west.

Personally, I don't give any credence to the 'support' for one candidate over the other that has been expressed by the enemies of civilisation (Iran and Hamas 'support' Obama, while an al Qaeda blogger 'supports' McCain). Their agenda is simply to sow confusion and promote American recriminations and disarray. Nor do I set much store by many of the remarks made by either candidate during the latter stages of this election campaign, since under this kind of pressure both will now say pretty much anything to win it. The New York Times has run a useful analysis of the candidates' foreign policy campaign statements which shows how Obama has carefully tacked to the 'hard power' agenda while McCain has in turn nodded towards 'soft power'.

No, the only way to assess their position is to look at each man in the round, at what his general attitude is towards war and self-defence, aggression and appeasement, the values of the west and those of its enemies and ? perhaps most crucially of all ? the nature of the advisers and associates to whom he is listening. As I have said before, I do not trust McCain; I think his judgment is erratic and impetuous, and sometimes wrong. But on the big picture, he gets it. He will defend America and the free world whereas Obama will undermine them and aid their enemies.

Here's why. McCain believes in protecting and defending America as it is. Obama tells the world he is ashamed of America and wants to change it into something else. McCain stands for American exceptionalism, the belief that American values are superior to tyrannies. Obama stands for the expiation of America's original sin in oppressing black people, the third world and the poor.

Obama thinks world conflicts are basically the west's fault, and so it must right the injustices it has inflicted. That's why he believes in 'soft power' ? diplomacy, aid, rectifying 'grievances' (thus legitimising them, encouraging terror and promoting injustice) and resolving conflict by talking. As a result, he will take an axe to America's defences at the very time when they need to be built up. He has said he will 'cut investments in unproven missile defense systems'; he will 'not weaponize space'; he will 'slow our development of future combat systems'; and he will also 'not develop nuclear weapons,' pledging to seek 'deep cuts' in America's arsenal, thus unilaterally disabling its nuclear deterrent as Russia and China engage in massive military buildups.

McCain understands that an Islamic war of conquest is being waged on a number of diverse fronts which all have to be seen in relation to each other. For Obama, however, the real source of evil in the world is America. The evil represented by Iran and the Islamic jihadists is apparently all America's fault. 'A lot of evil's been perpetuated based on the claim that we were fighting evil,' he said. Last May, he dismissed Iran as a tiny place which posed no threat to the US -- before reversing himself the very next day when he said Iran was a great threat which had to be defeated. He has also said that Hezbollah and Hamas have 'legitimate grievances'. Really? And what might they be? Their grievances are a) the existence of Israel b) its support by America c) the absence of salafist Islam in the world. Does Obama think these 'grievances' are legitimate?

To solve world conflict, Obama places his faith in the UN club of terror and tyranny, which is currently fuelling the murderous global demonisation of Israel for having the temerity to defend itself and is even now preparing for a rerun of its own anti-Jew hate-fest of Durban 2, which preceded 9/11 by a matter of days.

McCain understands that Israel is the victim rather than the victimiser in the Middle East, that it is surrounded by genocidal enemies whose undiminished intention is to destroy it as a Jewish state, and that is both the first line of defence against the Islamist attack on the free world and its most immediate and important target.

Obama dismisses the threat from Islamism, shows zero grasp of the strategic threat to the region and the world from the encirclement of Israel by Iran, displays a similar failure to grasp the strategic importance of Iraq, thinks Israel is instead the source of Arab and Muslim aggression against the west, believes that a Palestinian state would promote world peace and considers that Israel ? particularly through the 'settlements' ? is the principal obstacle to that happy outcome. Accordingly, Obama has said he wants Israel to return to its 1967 borders ? actually the strategically indefensible 1948 cease-fire line, known accordingly as the 'Auschwitz borders'.

Obama would thus speak to Iran's genocidal mullahs without preconditions on his side (the same mullahs have now laid down their own preconditions for America: pull all US troops out of the Middle East, and abandon support for 'Zionist' Israel) but has said he would have problems dealing with an Israeli government headed by a member of Israel's Likud Party. In similar vein, it is notable that Obama opposed the congressional resolution labelling the Iranian Revolutionary Guards a terrorist organization, which passed the Senate by a wide margin with support from both parties. And had he had his way, there would have been no 'surge' in Iraq and America would instead have run up the white flag, with the incalculable bloodbath and strengthening of the jihad that would have followed.

Obama assumes that Islamic terrorism is driven by despair, poverty, inflammatory US policy and the American presence on Muslim soil in the Persian Gulf. Thus he adopts the agenda of the Islamists themselves. This is not surprising since many of his connections suggest that that the man who may be elected President of a country upon which the Islamists have declared war is himself firmly in the Islamists' camp. Daniel Pipes lists Obama's extensive connections to Islamists in general and the Nation of Islam in particular, and concludes with this astounding observation:

Obama's multiple links to anti-Americans and subversives mean he would fail the standard security clearance process for Federal employees. Islamic aggression represents America's strategic enemy; Obama's many insalubrious connections raise grave doubts about his fitness to serve as America's commander-in-chief.

The hatred that these Islamist connections entertain towards Israel is reflected amongst Obama's own advisers. With one notable exception in Dennis Ross, whose late arrival in Camp Obama suggests a cosmetic exercise designed to allay alarm among Israel supporters, his advisers are overwhelmingly not only hostile to Israel but perpetrate the loathesome canard that Jews have too much power over American policy.

The former Carter adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, for example, not only denounced Israel's war against Hezbollah thus:

I think what the Israelis are doing today [2006] for example in Lebanon is in effect? maybe not in intent ? the killing of hostages

but also supports Mearsheimer and Walt's notorious smear that the Jews have subverted America's foreign policy in the interests of Israel. Merrill McPeak, vice chairman of Obama's campaign and his chief military adviser, has similarly blamed problems in the Middle East on the influence of people who live in New York City and Miami (guess who) whom no 'politician wants to run against' and who he says exercise undue influence on America's foreign affairs. Most revolting of all is Samantha Power, a very close adviser whom Obama fired for calling Hillary a 'monster' but who says she still expects to be in Obama's administration. Not only has Power has advocated the ending of all aid to Israel and redirecting it to the Palestinians, but she has spoken about the need to land a 'mammoth force' of US troops in Israel to protect the Palestinians from Israeli attempts at genocide (sic) -- and has complained that criticism of Barack Obama all too often came down to what was 'good for the Jews'.

There are, alas, many in the west for whom all this is music to their ears. Whether through wickedness, ideology, stupidity or derangement, they firmly believe that the ultimate source of conflict in the world derives at root from America and Israel, whose societies, culture and values they want to see emasculated or destroyed altogether. They are drooling at the prospect that an Obama presidency will bring that about. The rest of us can't sleep at night.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/2545716/is-america-really-going-to-do-this.thtml 

=============================================
Women For Israel's Tomorrow  (Women in Green) 
POB 7352, Jerusalem 91072, Israel 
Tel: 972-2-624-9887 Fax: 972-2-624-5380 
mailto:wfit2 at womeningreen.org
http://www.womeningreen.org




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From carlson_john at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov  4 17:27:43 2008
From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 23:27:43 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] Test
Message-ID: <356647760-1225841325-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1213238684-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>


Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Tue Nov  4 17:51:38 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 18:51:38 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Test
In-Reply-To: <356647760-1225841325-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1213238684-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <356647760-1225841325-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1213238684-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <855590370811041551l29074d3ay5f48397c4c4bf8b7@mail.gmail.com>

I see ya bro!

  *     Hanoch
*
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:27 PM, <carlson_john at bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
> _______________________________________________
>
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From carlson_john at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov  4 18:07:43 2008
From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:07:43 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] Test
In-Reply-To: <855590370811041551l29074d3ay5f48397c4c4bf8b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <356647760-1225841325-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1213238684-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<855590370811041551l29074d3ay5f48397c4c4bf8b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <110520080007.5947.4910E3CF0005388B0000173B22243322829B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net>

Okay man, just awful quiet out there today so I had to check.

Almost done with the tapes.  Should finish this week.

--
John C. 

"Be excellent to each other!" 
Bill and Ted 


-------------- Original message from "Hanoch Young" <youngbarzel at gmail.com>: -------------- 


I see ya bro!

       Hanoch


On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:27 PM, <carlson_john at bellsouth.net> wrote:


Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
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From dhcole1 at cox.net  Tue Nov  4 19:54:17 2008
From: dhcole1 at cox.net (Dave Cole)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:54:17 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] Test
References: <356647760-1225841325-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1213238684-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<855590370811041551l29074d3ay5f48397c4c4bf8b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C82161E7FF4EC4A503627A85405125@davesbook>

Hey John,
I see Hanoch is  seeing you.....
It seems we as a people are taking a breather from dialoguing.  Perhaps our father who's name is holy.....;~)> is giving us a rest time. 
dave
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Hanoch Young 
  To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:51 PM
  Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Test


  I see ya bro!

         Hanoch


  On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:27 PM, <carlson_john at bellsouth.net> wrote:


    Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
    _______________________________________________





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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Tue Nov  4 19:57:37 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 17:57:37 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] A Chance to be Uncomfortable
Message-ID: <855590370811041757k5d2be4fehad09affc00b5a2e1@mail.gmail.com>

My position regarding Arabs currently living in Israel is well known; but I
still found this article interesting, and thought provoking.  I think you
will too...
                    *Hanoch*
 A Chance to Be Uncomfortable Cheshvan 6, 5769, 04 November 08 08:44
by by Tzipora Liron

(IsraelNN.com) There is it again, this uncomfortable feeling in my stomach.
It started the day before, when I read a short news item saying that the
High Court of Justice has granted permission for a planned right-wing march
through the Arab-Israeli city of Umm Al-Fahm.

Just why does it feel so uncomfortable?

The gray morning light sneaks in through the window and I try to block it
with my pillow in order to catch a few more minutes of sleep. Suddenly, it
dawns on me. That march feels so uncomfortable because it might disturb our
sweet dreams.

The dream is that everything is alright in the "Triangle", that part of the
Galilee that has a growing Arab majority. The dream is that the very active
northern branch of the radical Islamic Movement is not headquartered in Umm
Al-Fahm. The sweet blanket of forgetfulness covering the fact that this
place has for decades been a hotbed of hatred against Israel; and that
before the construction of the security barrier, terrorists infiltrated into
Israel through Umm Al-Fahm and used it as a base for attacks on Jews in the
Wadi Ara region. The sleepy silence that answers calls for Arab political
autonomy in the Galilee, openly made by protesters during the latest Arab
"Land Day" rallies.

If it weren't for those rightists who now want to march through the place,
no one would ever think of it. The Arab villages in the Galilee, in a way,
just don't exist in the Israeli public consciousness. It's a no-go area,
physically and psychologically.

And that very much goes both ways. Although these towns and villages are a
part of "Israel proper" (within the greenest of Green Lines), the majority
of their inhabitants don't see themselves as part of Israel. Israel, so to
say, has no place in their consciousness either.

That's why the intended waving of Israeli flags during the demonstration is,
to the mayor and inhabitants of Umm Al-Fahm, the height of provocation. It's
the flag of the country they live in. It's the flag of the country they
absolutely don't identify with.

The planned march through Umm Al-Fahm is a good opportunity to pull these
issues out into the daylight. Maybe we should thank those right-wingers for
their wake-up call, instead of condemning them.

That the Arab inhabitants of Umm-Al-Fahm squarely oppose the march is
natural and understandable. On the Israeli side, the little "sleep
disturbance" has more than one side to it. It raises not only those
unpleasant questions connected to the Galilee "Triangle", but it also
challenges some cherished political concepts.

The organizers of the march themselves dubbed it a "Jewish Pride Parade",
thereby referring to the controversial annual "Pride Parade" of the gays
through Jerusalem. They claim that if there is freedom of expression granted
to that controversial event - under heavy police protection, despite threats
- then this should go for other controversial events as well.

And, like it or not, they are right on that. Freedom of expression implies
that it is granted equally to all. If one side of the spectrum is
chronically silenced, that's the opposite of freedom.

A word on what I've heard about the march's organizers. Their opponents
point out that some of them  once were members of the Kach party, which was
later outlawed. But does that imply that these people have to be forever
excluded from expressing any political opinion or showing up in public? What
should people do who are again and again prevented from presenting their
ideas in a normal, public manner? Isn't it true that suppression promotes
radicalization? Barring people from democratic means of participation and
expression does not make them more democratic. On the contrary, it creates
an underground mentality.

I heard some people oppose the planned march with phrases like: "...because
it's racist." If the participants would hold up placards with racist
slogans, that would be understandable. But in case they don't, then what
about those who want to forbid a Jewish demonstration in an Arab town in
Israel? Does that not somehow resemble racism?

There is yet another way to see it. A short time ago, the second boat in two
months with self-proclaimed peace activists violated Israeli sovereignty
along the Gaza coast and docked there. Why did Israel let this happen? Among
the reasons given for permitting both incidents was the consideration that
by simply waving the illegal boats through, the matter would lose most of
its appeal. And so it was. Sometimes, letting the "impossible" happen simply
reduces everything to its normal size, be it a fish trawler with a handful
of possibly Hamas-friendly "peace promoters" or any other kind of
demonstration, parade or march.

Let the right-wingers have their Jewish Pride Parade. Don't be afraid. You
disagree with them? That's okay; it's called pluralism.

Israel didn't collapse because of the Gaza boats. It also didn't collapse
because of the gay parades through Jerusalem (even though I personally
strongly disagreed with both events). Israel surely won't collapse because
of Umm Al-Fahm.

Security concerns? Thanks to thorough planning and the work of the police,
the threatened wide-scale riots against the gay parade in Jerusalem never
materialized. It can be done if there is sufficient will to do it.

Let's see this little disturbance of our pleasant sleep as a chance for
dragging some unpleasant questions out from under the carpet. The keywords
are "freedom of expression" for the entire political spectrum,  the
forgotten but silently smoldering "problems of the Arab Triangle" in the
Galilee, and "dealing with the impossible." May Israel grow stronger from
this.
 www.IsraelNationalNews.com <http://www.israelnationalnews.com/>
(c) Copyright IsraelNationalNews.com
Subscribe to the free Daily Israel Report - sub.israelnn.com
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From carlson_john at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov  4 19:58:20 2008
From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 01:58:20 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] Test
In-Reply-To: <49C82161E7FF4EC4A503627A85405125@davesbook>
References: <356647760-1225841325-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1213238684-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><855590370811041551l29074d3ay5f48397c4c4bf8b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C82161E7FF4EC4A503627A85405125@davesbook>
Message-ID: <110520080158.15506.4910FDBB000C28DF00003C9222230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net>

Yeah, email in general is quiet today.

--
John C. 

"Be excellent to each other!" 
Bill and Ted 


-------------- Original message from "Dave Cole" <dhcole1 at cox.net>: -------------- 


Hey John,
I see Hanoch is  seeing you.....
It seems we as a people are taking a breather from dialoguing.  Perhaps our father who's name is holy.....;~)> is giving us a rest time. 
dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Hanoch Young 
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Test


I see ya bro!

       Hanoch


On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:27 PM, <carlson_john at bellsouth.net> wrote:


Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
_______________________________________________






_______________________________________________
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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Tue Nov  4 20:06:50 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 18:06:50 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] Only in my dreams....
Message-ID: <855590370811041806pc93d3a6y42a8857377878de7@mail.gmail.com>

This just goes to show you how incredibly stupid the Arabs are...IF ONLY
someone in ANY authority in Israel was planning *something *related to the
Har HaBayit (Temple Mount!).  And whoever wrote this is wrong - it's not the
Silver dome structure that's over the Even HaShitiyah (the "Foundation
Stone" of the world), but the Gold domed roach motel!    see below
                     *Hanoch*
  [image: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/]<http://www.israelnationalnews.com/>
 Daily
Israel Report
Subscribe (free) <http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Subscribe>
  Home <http://www.israelnationalnews.com/>
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Briefs <http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/AllFlashes.aspx>
Opinion<http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/>
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Features<http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Section.aspx/9>
Blogs <http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/>
Admin<http://www.israelnationalnews.com/a7Admin/>
Radio <http://www.israelnationalradio.com/> | Live [image:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/static/a7radio.asx]<http://www.israelnationalnews.com/static/a7radio.asx>
TV <http://www.israelnationalnews.com/TV/>
Jukebox<http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/Jukebox.aspx> Israel
Pics <http://www.israelnationalnews.com/More/ActivePage.aspx/Pict>
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Advertise<http://www.israelnationalnews.com/More/ActivePage.aspx/Pirsum>


Claim: Israel Plans to Build Temple Over al-Aksa Mosque Cheshvan 6, 5769, 04
November 08 12:08
by

(IsraelNN.com) An Arab researcher says he has long range plans from the
Israeli Antiquities Authority which outline strategies for the construction
of a Jewish Temple on the site where the al-Aksa Mosque now stands,
according to a report on Monday by the Bethlehem-based *Maan *news agency.
Doctor Ibrahim al Fanni showed the newspaper sketches outlining the
demolition of al-Aqsa Mosque and the Marwani mosque (Solomon's stables)
beneath al-Aksa, as well as a plan involving the opening up the Fatimi
Halls, which are also located under al-Aksa.

Dr. al Fanni claims the halls would be turned into a Jewish Temple, and
construction would gradually move to the upper part of the compound, taking
over space in Al-Aqsa. "Plan B" would see the demolition of the Al-Aqsa
Mosque and the construction of a Jewish "Royal Palace" on the same site,
which Muslims believe was the spot from which the Prophet Muhammad started
his journey into the heavens.
 www.IsraelNationalNews.com <http://www.israelnationalnews.com/>
(c) Copyright IsraelNationalNews.com
Subscribe to the free Daily Israel Report - sub.israelnn.com
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From carlson_john at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov  4 22:08:20 2008
From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 04:08:20 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] it's Done.
Message-ID: <1975220945-1225858164-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1387760668-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>


The newly revised version of Jimmy Carter is headed for the White House.  G-d help us all!

John C.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com  Tue Nov  4 23:55:22 2008
From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:55:22 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] it's Done.
In-Reply-To: <1975220945-1225858164-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim
	.net-1387760668-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1975220945-1225858164-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1387760668-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <200811050555.mA55tGv5009598@mail385c25.carrierzone.com>

John and All,

Of course, G-d can use anyone to execute his judgments and bring 
about good or evil, e.g. Baalam.   So far, what I have heard from 
this candidate is indeed "dark," and feels like:

"This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the 
word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that 
the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to 
whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men."  -- Daniel 4:17

The good news about this "work of our hands" is that we are surely 
closer to the Redemption. Truly, G-d help us all!

Steve

At 08:08 PM 11/4/2008, you wrote:

>The newly revised version of Jimmy Carter is headed for the White 
>House.  G-d help us all!
>
>John C.
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov  5 01:24:14 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:24:14 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] it's Done.]
Message-ID: <49114A1E.4030004@westnet.com.au>

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  5 07:10:39 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 08:10:39 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] it's Done.]
In-Reply-To: <49114A1E.4030004@westnet.com.au>
References: <49114A1E.4030004@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS4F9BA05DE22DFD9FB4ABABA1F0@phx.gbl>

May your sleep be sweet, Joe.  America's over-long sleep may be troubled.  ~ Pat


From: JOE INDOMENICO 
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:24 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] it's Done.]


Shalom,

America wanted to get OSAMA- BIN LADIN.
but got instead OBAMA - BIDIN.

back to snoozing
JOE.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
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From carlson_john at bellsouth.net  Wed Nov  5 15:05:00 2008
From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 21:05:00 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] Hmmm.
Message-ID: <110520082105.16770.49120A78000CD8300000418222230680329B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net>

>From the Jewish Journal
World
January 9, 2003
Emanuel?s Impact
The freshman Democrat helps formulate his party's stand on Bush's economic plan.
By Eli Kintisch



Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) is making himself known on the Hill.The subject of Monday afternoon's.
Democratic caucus meeting was crucial: On the eve of President Bush's release of his economic stimulus package, how could House Democrats make the public case that their package was better? 
By the end of the two-hour meeting, the more than 175 Democratic members gathered in the stuffy, but regal meeting room of the Canon Office Building were getting restless. Members stirred and chatted, while colleagues took turns making comments. But when freshman Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) approached the microphone, members quieted down and listened. 
Emanuel, a longtime aide to former President Bill Clinton, formulated the argument with the clarity of a Washington pro: "The Republican program is all about the stock market, and the Democratic program is all about the job market."
"A few minutes later at the press conference, that phrase came up several times," fellow Illinois Rep. Jan Schakowsky said. 
The next day, several news stories on the Democrat's plan featured Emanuel's line. Emanuel hadn't even been sworn in yet, and he already was making an impact. 
"There's an acknowledgment since the last election that the Democrats need to draw a distinction between themselves and the Republicans, and Rahm is really experienced at doing just that," Schakowsky said. 
With 20 years of experience in national politics, Emanuel, 43, who took the oath of office Tuesday, along with his 434 colleagues in the 108th Congress, is far from your ordinary freshman. 
For many Democrats, with their party in the minority in both houses of Congress, the arrival of this Jewish rising star on Capitol Hill comes not a moment too soon. After winning the congressional seat left open when Rod Blagojevich stepped down to run a successful campaign for governor, Emanuel steps into the Washington spotlight as the only new Jewish member of the House of Representatives. 
His father, a pediatrician still practicing near Chicago, immigrated to the United States from Israel and spoke Hebrew with his son, when Emanuel was a boy. Emanuel, whose first name, Rahm, means "high" or "lofty" in Hebrew, and his wife, Amy, are active members of a modern Orthodox congregation, Anshe Shalom B'nai Israel, in Chicago. 
Members of Chicago's Jewish community say Emanuel's wife, who converted to Judaism around the same time as her wedding, is heavily involved with the Bernard Zell Anshe Emet Day School in Lakeview, Ill. 
The couple send their 6-year-old son, Zacharias, and 3-year-old daughter, Ilana, to the Conservative Jewish day school that Emanuel attended as a child. The family also includes 2-year-old Leah. 
"Amy was one of the teachers for a class for children during the High Holidays two years ago," said Rabbi Asher Lopatin of Anshe Shalom. "It's a very involved Jewish family." 
Emanuel said of his Judaism: "I am proud of my heritage and treasure the values it has taught me." Like a true politician, he added: "Throughout my life, I have also had the privilege of knowing, working with and now representing people of all backgrounds and have learned a great deal from them and their various heritages as well. Hopefully, I will bring all of these experiences to this job." 
Emanuel traces his political start from his days at Sarah Lawrence College, when he joined the congressional campaign of David Robinson of Chicago. Swiftly moving up the ranks of the Democratic Party in the Midwest, he went on to fundraise and direct a number of successful Illinois campaigns, before assuming a larger national role with the Democratic Party's fundraising apparatus. 
In 1991, he was drafted to join the nascent Clinton campaign in Little Rock. Toughness and good political instincts earned him Clinton's respect at the beginning of his relationship with the president. 
As a top aide on the 1992 presidential campaign at age 32, Emanuel sparred with then-Gov. Clinton over the campaign schedule, urging the candidate to focus heavily on fundraising, rather than campaigning in New Hampshire, former Clinton colleagues said. Clinton acquiesced, eschewing the New Hampshire trail for much of late 1991 in favor of feverish fundraisers. Emanuel's gambit paid off, with the money providing a crucial cushion as the negative attacks hit Clinton hard later on. 
"It was that million dollars that really allowed the campaign to withstand the storm we had to ride out in New Hampshire" over Clinton's alleged relationship with Gennifer Flowers and the controversy over his draft during the Vietnam War, said Richard Mintz, a Washington public relations consultant, who worked with Emanuel on the campaign. 
Emanuel's knowledge of the top donors in the country, his rapport with the heavily Jewish donor community and his sheer chutzpah made the difference, as Clinton amassed a then-unheard-of $72 million, said those involved with the campaign. 
"He schmoozed many, many millions all over the country, including money from traditional Democratic Party givers, who are disproportionately Jewish, and new Democratic givers," said Steve Rabinowitz, a political and public relations consultant in Washington, who worked with the White House throughout the Clinton administration. 
Later, as a top White House aide, Emanuel's take-no-prisoners attitude -- he earned the nickname "Rahm-bo" -- won him respect and enemies among co-workers, as well as political foes. In a story that has become part of Washington lore, Emanuel mailed a rotting fish to a former co-worker after the two parted ways. But longtime friends of Emanuel insisted the once-hard-charging staffer has mellowed. 
"He kids me about it. He says, 'You like the old me better,' and I kind of do," said Bettylu Saltzman, who worked with Emanuel on the staff of former Sen. Paul Simon (D-Ill.). 
"He is very self-effacing, and that's what makes him tolerable," Mintz joked. 
"Maybe it is a Chicago sport, where politics is a contact sport, but people have fun doing it," said former colleague John Podesta, who was Clinton's chief of staff. 
Running for the House last year, Emanuel got his first glimpse of politics as a candidate, and faced an immediate test. A nasty primary battle included a rare public case of anti-Semitism, when the president of the Polish American Congress, Ed Moskal, who was supporting candidate Nancy Kaszak, claimed that Emanuel was an Israeli citizen and served in the Israeli army. Moskal also called Emanuel a "millionaire carpetbagger who knows nothing" about "our heritage." 
Emanuel had served a noncombat stint as a volunteer in the Israeli army during the Gulf War, but he never held Israeli citizenship. Emanuel responded coolly, supporters said, bringing a coalition of Chicago clergy together to denounce the incident. 
"One of the proudest moments of my life was seeing people of my district from all backgrounds demonstrate our common values by coming together in response to this obvious attempt to divide them," Emanuel said. 
As a member of Congress, Emanuel is expected to push for centrist Democratic positions on economics, trade and the war on terror. During the congressional campaign, he indicated his support of President Bush's position on Iraq but said he believed the president needed to better articulate his position to the American people. 
On domestic issues, such as health care, on which Rahm focused much of his campaign, he will be a vocal member of the Democratic opposition. Saying his interest in health care was inspired by his father, a pediatrician, Rahm said he is "determined to help make health care affordable and available for all Americans." 
A defining moment for Emanuel during his White House stint was an event that touched his political sensibilities and his personal ties to Israel: the 1993 Rose Garden signing ceremony after the Oslo accord between Israel and the Palestinians. Rahm directed the details of the ceremony, down to the choreography of the famous handshake between Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat. 
"It was an emotional moment for him," Mintz said. "He'd like nothing more than to participate in another peace agreement signing." 
These days, however, Emanuel is not optimistic about the chance of a Palestinian state arising from the current ruin. 
"If you were to say up front, 'We're creating a state and then we're negotiating the details,'" he told CNBC last summer, "not only would you be rewarding terrorism, you would be rewarding all the corruption that goes with it." 
--
John C. 

"Be excellent to each other!" 
Bill and Ted 
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov  5 17:41:42 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:41:42 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] It's Done or is it?
Message-ID: <49122F36.7030400@westnet.com.au>

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov  5 17:44:40 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:44:40 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] It's Done or is it?
Message-ID: <49122FE8.3050900@westnet.com.au>

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov  5 17:47:48 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:47:48 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] It's Done or is it?
Message-ID: <491230A4.90704@westnet.com.au>

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov  5 17:52:46 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:52:46 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] U.S. President Hussein Obama. Congratulations America! -
 The Tamar Yonah Show - Blogs - Israel National News
Message-ID: <491231CE.8070206@westnet.com.au>

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov  5 17:54:29 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:54:29 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] FOOLED YOU! - The Tamar Yonah Show - Blogs - Israel
	National News
Message-ID: <49123235.7060101@westnet.com.au>

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov  5 18:21:42 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 10:21:42 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] It's Done or is it?
Message-ID: <49123896.2040008@westnet.com.au>

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Thu Nov  6 00:35:45 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:35:45 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] Lazer Beams: Good News for Geula
Message-ID: <49129041.40901@westnet.com.au>

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  6 06:22:57 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:22:57 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] It's Done or is it?
In-Reply-To: <49123896.2040008@westnet.com.au>
References: <49123896.2040008@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS4AD26723272F9675E9481BA1E0@phx.gbl>

Ken, Achi Joe, AM YISRAEL CHAI!!!!!!!  And may HaShem have mercy on the nations............

Pat


From: JOE INDOMENICO 
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:21 PM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] It's Done or is it?


Shalom Chaverim,

the "Chudna" , the Arabic term for ceasefire, well actually it really means : a temporary ceasefire while we regroup, rearm, restrengthen and then go for an all out war, IS OVER !!!!!

May we wake up from our slumber and remove the starry eyed optimism of the Obama-Bidin mania that has gripped the world.

It did not matter who won the Presidential race in America. Both candidates support a 2 state solution in the Holy Land which is in total contravention of HaShem's master plan.

The Palestinians have a duality in terms of dealing with Yisrael.
Chamas wants a total, sudden obliteration of the Jewish state.
Fatach wants to pull the Jewish state apart bit by bit.
The end result is still the same. THE LIQUIDATION OF THE JEWISH STATE.

The world has a duality in terms of dealing with Yisrael
Iran wants a total, sudden obliteration of the Jewish state.
The rest of the world wants to pull the Jewish state apart bit by bit.
The end result is still the same. THE LIQUIDATION OF THE JEWISH STATE.

However the good news is:

Psalms Chapter 2
      ?  ??????, ???????? ??????;    ???????????, ????????-????.  1 Why are the nations in an uproar? And why do the peoples mutter in vain?
     
      ?  ????????????, ???????-?????--    ??????????? ????????-?????:
      ???-??????,    ?????-?????????.  2 The kings of the earth stand up, and the rulers take counsel together, {N}
      against the LORD, and against His anointed:
     
      ?  ??????????, ???-??????????????;    ????????????? ????????? ??????????.  3 'Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.'
     
      ?  ??????? ???????????? ????????:    ???????, ???????-?????.  4 He that sitteth in heaven laugheth, the Lord hath them in derision.
     
      ?  ??? ???????? ???????? ????????;    ???????????? ???????????.  5 Then will He speak unto them in His wrath, and affright them in His sore displeasure:
     
      ?  ???????, ?????????? ????????:    ???-???????, ???-????????.  6 'Truly it is I that have established My king upon Zion, My holy mountain.'
     
      ?  ??????????, ???-???:    ??????, ????? ????? ?????? ??????--?????, ??????? ????????????.  7 I will tell of the decree: the LORD said unto me: 'Thou art My son, this day have I begotten thee.
     
      ?  ?????? ?????????--?????????? ??????, ??????????;    ?????????????, ???????-?????.  8 Ask of Me, and I will give the nations for thine inheritance, and the ends of the earth for thy possession.
     
      ?  ????????, ????????? ????????:    ???????? ?????? ???????????.  9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.'
     
      ?  ????????, ???????? ????????????;    ??????????, ???????? ?????.  10 Now therefore, O ye kings, be wise; be admonished, ye judges of the earth.
     
      ??  ??????? ???-?????? ??????????;    ????????, ??????????.  11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
     
      ??  ?????????-???, ????-??????? ?????????? ??????--    ????-??????? ???????? ??????:
      ????????,    ????-?????? ???.  12 Do homage in purity, lest He be angry, and ye perish in the way, when suddenly His wrath is kindled. {N}
      Happy are all they that take refuge in Him. {P} 

MAY G-D BLESS YISRAEL!!!!!!!

AM YISRAEL CHAI !!!!!!!!

MAY HE HAVE MERCY ON US ALL THAT ARE OF THE NATIONS !!!!!!!!!!

Shalom v'Ahavah
JOE.

 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From tposborne77 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  6 10:48:22 2008
From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com (Tracy Osborne)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:48:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Dialogue] Yerushalayim
Message-ID: <821294.8038.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Shalom All,
??? I'm leaving today for Yerushalayim, Our City. My wife, Lynn, is staying home this time and taking care of things. I'll be at the Kotel praying for all of?us on Shabat. Included will be the prayer which Steve has put together. I'm going on tour with www.biblicalzionist.org . Will meet up with Hanoch next week. Please remember me in your prayers. 
??? All of you guys, whom I have conversed with since Charlotte, remain in my heart and thoughts. I just wanted to say, that it was?literally a 'dream come true' to meet all of you this year and I hope to be of service to all of you in some way in the future. 
??? My music project is finished - please check it out:
www.TheHouseOfJoseph.com
www.OnHigh.org
I sent a couple of the songs to Hanoch and he liked them. I'm hopeful that you will also.
If any of you would like a copy, please send me a check in any amount and I'll mail you one when I return.
Make your check out to: Tracy Osborne. 
Send it to:

Tracy Phillip Osborne
3855 Rolling Brook Place
Cleveland, TN 37323

Ahavah v'Tefillot in Yerushalayim,

Tracy


      
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From chattertonw at bellsouth.net  Thu Nov  6 12:03:09 2008
From: chattertonw at bellsouth.net (chattertonw at bellsouth.net)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:03:09 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] Yerushalayim
In-Reply-To: <821294.8038.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <110620081803.17000.4913315B000B14DC0000426822216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9902019B9D0A9B9B0E080C@att.net>

... is there a mitvot against coveting your neighbor's trip to The Land?
-------------- Original message from Tracy Osborne <tposborne77 at yahoo.com>: -------------- 


Shalom All,
    I'm leaving today for Yerushalayim, Our City. My wife, Lynn, is staying home this time and taking care of things. I'll be at the Kotel praying for all of us on Shabat. Included will be the prayer which Steve has put together. I'm going on tour with www.biblicalzionist.org . Will meet up with Hanoch next week. Please remember me in your prayers. 
    All of you guys, whom I have conversed with since Charlotte, remain in my heart and thoughts. I just wanted to say, that it was literally a 'dream come true' to meet all of you this year and I hope to be of service to all of you in some way in the future. 
    My music project is finished - please check it out:
www.TheHouseOfJoseph.com
www.OnHigh.org
I sent a couple of the songs to Hanoch and he liked them. I'm hopeful that you will also.
If any of you would like a copy, please send me a check in any amount and I'll mail you one when I return.
Make your check out to: Tracy Osborne. 
Send it to:

Tracy Phillip Osborne
3855 Rolling Brook Place
Cleveland, TN 37323

Ahavah v'Tefillot in Yerushalayim,

Tracy
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From chattertonw at bellsouth.net  Thu Nov  6 12:05:33 2008
From: chattertonw at bellsouth.net (chattertonw at bellsouth.net)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:05:33 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] Yerushalayim
In-Reply-To: <110620081803.17000.4913315B000B14DC0000426822216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9902019B9D0A9B9B0E080C@att.net>
References: <821294.8038.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<110620081803.17000.4913315B000B14DC0000426822216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9902019B9D0A9B9B0E080C@att.net>
Message-ID: <110620081805.25006.491331EC00034A51000061AE22216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9902019B9D0A9B9B0E080C@att.net>

of course I meant mitzvot... I just left out a letter... my envy has not diminished one bit, however!
-------------- Original message from chattertonw at bellsouth.net: -------------- 


... is there a mitvot against coveting your neighbor's trip to The Land?
-------------- Original message from Tracy Osborne <tposborne77 at yahoo.com>: -------------- 


Shalom All,
    I'm leaving today for Yerushalayim, Our City. My wife, Lynn, is staying home this time and taking care of things. I'll be at the Kotel praying for all of us on Shabat. Included will be the prayer which Steve has put together. I'm going on tour with www.biblicalzionist.org . Will meet up with Hanoch next week. Please remember me in your prayers. 
    All of you guys, whom I have conversed with since Charlotte, remain in my heart and thoughts. I just wanted to say, that it was literally a 'dream come true' to meet all of you this year and I hope to be of service to all of you in some way in the future. 
    My music project is finished - please check it out:
www.TheHouseOfJoseph.com
www.OnHigh.org
I sent a couple of the songs to Hanoch and he liked them. I'm hopeful that you will also.
If any of you would like a copy, please send me a check in any amount and I'll mail you one when I return.
Make your check out to: Tracy Osborne. 
Send it to:

Tracy Phillip Osborne
3855 Rolling Brook Place
Cleveland, TN 37323

Ahavah v'Tefillot in Yerushalayim,

Tracy
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From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com  Thu Nov  6 12:52:20 2008
From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 10:52:20 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] Yerushalayim
In-Reply-To: <821294.8038.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <821294.8038.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200811061852.mA6IqFW2021464@mail385c25.carrierzone.com>

Tracy,

Please ask on our behalf and "listen" at the Kotel, re what Hashem 
has to tell you.  Everyone else, please do so likewise.  Am wondering 
what HaShem will tell us at these momentuous times we are privileged 
to live in.

We will have act and do on differently on our part as well.

Everyone else, please use the prayer I wrote, and add to it your own, 
to bolster the prayers of returning Ephraim at this time of radical 
"change" that has come upon us, and will unfold in our days.  We will 
also have to change in radical ways, though very out of phase with 
"the fundamental changes" that was promised by this president elect.

Steve


PS.:  Lynn, please transmit this message to Tracy, in case he does 
not get it before he leaves tot he Land.



At 08:48 AM 11/6/2008, you wrote:
>Shalom All,
>     I'm leaving today for Yerushalayim, Our City. My wife, Lynn, is 
> staying home this time and taking care of things. I'll be at the 
> Kotel praying for all of us on Shabat. Included will be the prayer 
> which Steve has put together. I'm going on tour with 
> <http://www.biblicalzionist.org>www.biblicalzionist.org . Will meet 
> up with Hanoch next week. Please remember me in your prayers.
>     All of you guys, whom I have conversed with since Charlotte, 
> remain in my heart and thoughts. I just wanted to say, that it was 
> literally a 'dream come true' to meet all of you this year and I 
> hope to be of service to all of you in some way in the future.
>     My music project is finished - please check it out:
><http://www.TheHouseOfJoseph.com>www.TheHouseOfJoseph.com
>www.OnHigh.org
>I sent a couple of the songs to Hanoch and he liked them. I'm 
>hopeful that you will also.
>If any of you would like a copy, please send me a check in any 
>amount and I'll mail you one when I return.
>Make your check out to: Tracy Osborne.
>Send it to:
>
>Tracy Phillip Osborne
>3855 Rolling Brook Place
>Cleveland, TN 37323
>
>Ahavah v'Tefillot in Yerushalayim,
>
>Tracy
>
>_______________________________________________
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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Thu Nov  6 13:43:57 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:43:57 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Yerushalayim
In-Reply-To: <821294.8038.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <821294.8038.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <855590370811061143i227e6effyc26d87391904896b@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Tracy -

    Have a great flight; really looking forward to seeing you on Wednesday
evening.  There's a change in my hotel arrangements - I'll be in the same
hotel with the rest of the group.  Until then.....enjoy every minute!!

          * Hanoch
*
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Tracy Osborne <tposborne77 at yahoo.com>wrote:

>  Shalom All,
>     I'm leaving today for Yerushalayim, Our City. My wife, Lynn, is staying
> home this time and taking care of things. I'll be at the Kotel praying for
> all of us on Shabat. Included will be the prayer which Steve has put
> together. I'm going on tour with www.biblicalzionist.org . Will meet up
> with Hanoch next week. Please remember me in your prayers.
>     All of you guys, whom I have conversed with since Charlotte, remain in
> my heart and thoughts. I just wanted to say, that it was literally a 'dream
> come true' to meet all of you this year and I hope to be of service to all
> of you in some way in the future.
>     My music project is finished - please check it out:
> www.TheHouseOfJoseph.com <http://www.thehouseofjoseph.com/>
> www.OnHigh.org <http://www.onhigh.org/>
> I sent a couple of the songs to Hanoch and he liked them. I'm hopeful that
> you will also.
> If any of you would like a copy, please send me a check in any amount and
> I'll mail you one when I return.
> Make your check out to: Tracy Osborne.
> Send it to:
>
> Tracy Phillip Osborne
> 3855 Rolling Brook Place
> Cleveland, TN 37323
>
> Ahavah v'Tefillot in Yerushalayim,
>
> Tracy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Thu Nov  6 15:03:11 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 07:03:11 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Yerushalayim]
Message-ID: <49135B8F.3040502@westnet.com.au>

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From: Tracy Osborne <tposborne77 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Dialogue] Yerushalayim
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:48:22 -0800 (PST)
Size: 7833
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From carlson_john at bellsouth.net  Thu Nov  6 15:06:14 2008
From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:06:14 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] Emanuel
Message-ID: <110620082106.21752.49135C460002CA7F000054F822218675169B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net>

This is from Fox news; read between the lines.


Barack Obama, by tapping a prominent Jewish congressman to be his chief of staff, earned renewed support from the Jewish community here and abroad.  
His choice, Illinois Rep. Rahm Emanuel, has already accepted the job, according to Democratic officials, though Emanuel would say publicly only that he's still considering his future. Obama's offer could be an early signal to the Middle East that the new president intends to follow through on his promises to uphold the U.S.-Israeli alliance in his administration. 
"It's just another indication that despite the attempts to imply that Obama would somehow appoint the wrong person or listen to the wrong people when it comes to the U.S.-Israel relationship ... that was never true," said Ira Forman, executive director of the National Jewish Democratic Council.
Forman said Obama's selection of Emanuel helps build confidence that the United States will be vigilant in responding to any threats to Israel posed by Iran. 
"Rahm has certainly never been accused of being too naive or not decisive in his analysis of these types of issues," Forman said. 
Here and around the world, the selection brought swift reaction. The Web site for the Israeli newspaper Haaretz on Wednesday was filled with articles on what an Obama presidency would mean for Israel. The top story, on Emanuel, noted his deep Jewish roots. 
Emanuel is the son of a Jerusalem-born doctor who worked for the Israeli underground before the nation's creation following World War II. The congressman belongs to an orthodox congregation in Chicago and worked as a volunteer in Israel during the first Gulf War. He had dual citizenship in the United States and Israel, but gave it up when he was 18. 
"Of course he will influence the president to be pro-Israeli," his father Benjamin told an Israeli newspaper Thursday. 
Though Obama was accused of being conciliatory toward Iran and toward Palestinians during the presidential race, an Emanuel appointment could combat those perceptions. 
Last summer, Obama's campaign gave conflicting statements over how he views the status of Jerusalem. He told the American Israel Public Affairs Committee that Jerusalem "must remain undivided," but later he said it would be a matter of negotiation. 
Emanuel, though, has indicated consistent support for Israel's rights. While he has expressed empathy for Palestinians, Emanuel has explicitly condemned their leaders. 
In June 2007, Emanuel condemned an outbreak of Palestinian violence in the Gaza Strip and criticized Arab countries for not applying the same kind of pressure on the Palestinians as they have on Israel. 
"Fatah and Hamas are tearing the Palestinian area of the Gaza strip apart in what they call a political rivalry, and the Palestinian people are paying a price for Palestinian violence," he said at the time. "Governments from around the world and the Arab world have said nothing. ... I just want you to think for a second, if this were the result of Israeli-Palestinian hostilities, would the international silence and the silence of the Arab world be this deafening?" 
At a 2003 pro-Israel rally in Chicago, Emanuel told the marchers Israel was ready for peace but would not get there until Palestinians "turn away from the path of terror," according to the Chicago Tribune. 
It's unclear exactly how an Obama administration would handle the Israel-Palestine peace process, which has failed to take off during the Bush administration. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice left Wednesday for a series of peacemaking meetings in the Middle East, but so far the kind of agreement sought at last year's Annapolis summit has been elusive. 
"I would expect that what we are going to do is we're going to try to put this process in the best possible place going forward so that whomever comes next can formulate their policies, take a look at the process and possibly use it, take it further," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters, adding that upcoming elections in Israel further complicate matters. 
Emanuel's older brother Ezekial said the Illinois congressman will "want to see peace in the region." 
"That's what you need," he said. "Like every sensible human being, Rahm believes in a two-state solution." 
FOX News' Reena Ninan and Judson Berger contributed to this report.

--
John C. 

"Be excellent to each other!" 
Bill and Ted 
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From carlson_john at bellsouth.net  Thu Nov  6 15:15:51 2008
From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:15:51 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] Tehran
Message-ID: <110620082115.25693.49135E8700050ADC0000645D22218675169B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net>

Also from Fox News;

TEHRAN,Iran -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Thursday congratulated Barack Obama on his election win -- the first time an Iranian leader has offered such wishes to a U.S. president-elect since the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
An analyst said the statement was a gesture from the hard-line president that he's open to some sort of reconciliation with the U.S.
Obama has said he is willing to hold direct diplomacy with Iranian leaders as a way to break the impasse between the two countries or give the U.S. more credibility to press for tougher sanctions if talks fail. His policy marks a departure from the Bush administration, which has refused high-level engagements with Iran.
In his comments, Ahmadinejad congratulated the Democrat on "attracting the majority of voters in the election." The text of Ahmadinejad's statement was carried by the official IRNA news agency.
Ahmadinejad also said he hopes Obama will "use the opportunity to serve the (American) people and leave a good name for history" during his term in office.
Iran and U.S. have no formal diplomatic relations since 1979 and the hostage drama when militant Iranian students held 52 Americans captive 444 days.
Current U.S.-Iranian relations remain tense, with Washington accusing Iran of trying to develop nuclear weapons and of providing support for Shiite militants who are killing U.S. soldiers in Iraq -- charges Iran denies.
In Jerusalem, Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, a contender for prime minister in her country's elections, warned against any dialogue with Iran -- a first sign of Israeli disagreement with the incoming U.S. administration.
"Dialogue at this time is liable to broadcast weakness," cautioned Livni, who is head of the governing Kadima Party. "I think early dialogue at a time when it appears to Iran that the world has given up on sanctions could be problematic."
Israeli officials describe Iran as the biggest threat to the Jewish state's existence, citing Ahmadinejad's frequent calls for Israel's destruction and its development of long-range missiles capable of striking the Jewish state.
Livni has repeatedly said she hopes international diplomacy prevails. But she doesn't rule out force if U.N. sanctions don't pressure Iran to scale back its nuclear aims. In June, she said Iran "needs to understand the military threat exists and is not being taken off the table."
Iran sees Obama's victory as a triumph over the unpopular policies of U.S. President George W. Bush, who repeatedly clashed with Iranian leaders while in office over Iran's nuclear program and its opposition to the U.S.-led invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq.
Ahmadinejad went on in his Thursday message to say that "nations of the world" expect changes from Obama -- mostly that he will change current U.S. foreign policy.
That policy, Ahmadinejad claimed, was "based on warmongering, occupation, bullying, deception and humiliation, as well as discrimination and unfair relations" and has led to "hatred of all nations and majority of governments toward the U.S. leaders."
Ahmadinejad also said that Obama is expected to replace such a policy with "an approach based on justice and respect, as well as lack of intervention in the affairs of others."
Iranians will welcome such changes, Ahmadinejad added.
Iran's government refused to publicly side with any of the U.S. candidates throughout the presidential race, although Parliament Speaker Ali Larijani said last month that Obama seemed "more rational" than John McCain.
Saeed Leilaz, an independent analyst in Tehran, said Ahmadinejad's message was a "positive step" that now leaves Washington with the responsibility for the next one. Leilaz added he believes Obama's victory will "weaken radicalism" in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and North Korea.

--
John C. 

"Be excellent to each other!" 
Bill and Ted 
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Thu Nov  6 15:55:44 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 07:55:44 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Tehran]
Message-ID: <491367E0.7040704@westnet.com.au>

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  6 18:45:44 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 19:45:44 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Yerushalayim
In-Reply-To: <821294.8038.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<200811061852.mA6IqFW2021464@mail385c25.carrierzone.com>
References: <821294.8038.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<200811061852.mA6IqFW2021464@mail385c25.carrierzone.com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS7E285C9A9A2D6D4035364BA190@phx.gbl>

Will also be so anxious to know what Tracy hears!  Am praying for him, and can't wait to hear his songs!!!!

My love to all,  

Pat 


From: Steve Mathe 
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 1:52 PM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Yerushalayim


Tracy, 

Please ask on our behalf and "listen" at the Kotel, re what Hashem has to tell you.  Everyone else, please do so likewise. Am wondering what HaShem will tell us at these momentuous times we are privileged to live in. 
  
We will have act and do on differently on our part as well. 

Everyone else, please use the prayer I wrote, and add to it your own, to bolster the prayers of returning Ephraim at this time of radical "change" that has come upon us, and will unfold in our days.  We will also have to change in radical ways, though very out of phase with "the fundamental changes" that was promised by this president elect. 

Steve


PS.:  Lynn, please transmit this message to Tracy, in case he does not get it before he leaves tot he Land. 



At 08:48 AM 11/6/2008, you wrote:

  Shalom All,
      I'm leaving today for Yerushalayim, Our City. My wife, Lynn, is staying home this time and taking care of things. I'll be at the Kotel praying for all of us on Shabat. Included will be the prayer which Steve has put together. I'm going on tour with www.biblicalzionist.org . Will meet up with Hanoch next week. Please remember me in your prayers. 
      All of you guys, whom I have conversed with since Charlotte, remain in my heart and thoughts. I just wanted to say, that it was literally a 'dream come true' to meet all of you this year and I hope to be of service to all of you in some way in the future. 
      My music project is finished - please check it out:
  www.TheHouseOfJoseph.com
  www.OnHigh.org
  I sent a couple of the songs to Hanoch and he liked them. I'm hopeful that you will also.
  If any of you would like a copy, please send me a check in any amount and I'll mail you one when I return.
  Make your check out to: Tracy Osborne. 
  Send it to:
   
  Tracy Phillip Osborne
  3855 Rolling Brook Place
  Cleveland, TN 37323
   
  Ahavah v'Tefillot in Yerushalayim,
   
  Tracy

  _______________________________________________


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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  6 20:41:24 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 21:41:24 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Emanuel
In-Reply-To: <110620082106.21752.49135C460002CA7F000054F822218675169B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net>
References: <110620082106.21752.49135C460002CA7F000054F822218675169B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS554FBC550B4190E778765BA190@phx.gbl>

Oh, great!!!!  Rahm seemed like such a good thing until I read this!   Wish I'd seen it earlier.  Thank you so much for sending it, John.  ~ Pat  
  


From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net 
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:06 PM
To: Dialogue 
Subject: [Dialogue] Emanuel


This is from Fox news; read between the lines.





Barack Obama, by tapping a prominent Jewish congressman to be his chief of staff, earned renewed support from the Jewish community here and abroad.  

His choice, Illinois Rep. Rahm Emanuel, has already accepted the job, according to Democratic officials, though Emanuel would say publicly only that he's still considering his future. Obama's offer could be an early signal to the Middle East that the new president intends to follow through on his promises to uphold the U.S.-Israeli alliance in his administration. 

"It's just another indication that despite the attempts to imply that Obama would somehow appoint the wrong person or listen to the wrong people when it comes to the U.S.-Israel relationship ... that was never true," said Ira Forman, executive director of the National Jewish Democratic Council.

Forman said Obama's selection of Emanuel helps build confidence that the United States will be vigilant in responding to any threats to Israel posed by Iran. 

"Rahm has certainly never been accused of being too naive or not decisive in his analysis of these types of issues," Forman said. 

Here and around the world, the selection brought swift reaction. The Web site for the Israeli newspaper Haaretz on Wednesday was filled with articles on what an Obama presidency would mean for Israel. The top story, on Emanuel, noted his deep Jewish roots. 

Emanuel is the son of a Jerusalem-born doctor who worked for the Israeli underground before the nation's creation following World War II. The congressman belongs to an orthodox congregation in Chicago and worked as a volunteer in Israel during the first Gulf War. He had dual citizenship in the United States and Israel, but gave it up when he was 18. 

"Of course he will influence the president to be pro-Israeli," his father Benjamin told an Israeli newspaper Thursday. 

Though Obama was accused of being conciliatory toward Iran and toward Palestinians during the presidential race, an Emanuel appointment could combat those perceptions. 

Last summer, Obama's campaign gave conflicting statements over how he views the status of Jerusalem. He told the American Israel Public Affairs Committee that Jerusalem "must remain undivided," but later he said it would be a matter of negotiation. 

Emanuel, though, has indicated consistent support for Israel's rights. While he has expressed empathy for Palestinians, Emanuel has explicitly condemned their leaders. 

In June 2007, Emanuel condemned an outbreak of Palestinian violence in the Gaza Strip and criticized Arab countries for not applying the same kind of pressure on the Palestinians as they have on Israel. 

"Fatah and Hamas are tearing the Palestinian area of the Gaza strip apart in what they call a political rivalry, and the Palestinian people are paying a price for Palestinian violence," he said at the time. "Governments from around the world and the Arab world have said nothing. ... I just want you to think for a second, if this were the result of Israeli-Palestinian hostilities, would the international silence and the silence of the Arab world be this deafening?" 

At a 2003 pro-Israel rally in Chicago, Emanuel told the marchers Israel was ready for peace but would not get there until Palestinians "turn away from the path of terror," according to the Chicago Tribune. 

It's unclear exactly how an Obama administration would handle the Israel-Palestine peace process, which has failed to take off during the Bush administration. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice left Wednesday for a series of peacemaking meetings in the Middle East, but so far the kind of agreement sought at last year's Annapolis summit has been elusive. 

"I would expect that what we are going to do is we're going to try to put this process in the best possible place going forward so that whomever comes next can formulate their policies, take a look at the process and possibly use it, take it further," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters, adding that upcoming elections in Israel further complicate matters. 

Emanuel's older brother Ezekial said the Illinois congressman will "want to see peace in the region." 

"That's what you need," he said. "Like every sensible human being, Rahm believes in a two-state solution." 

FOX News' Reena Ninan and Judson Berger contributed to this report.



--
John C. 

"Be excellent to each other!" 
Bill and Ted 



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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Fri Nov  7 06:18:58 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 04:18:58 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] The Battle Ahead
Message-ID: <855590370811070418l3b24b817g75cdb8ce00e8b58a@mail.gmail.com>

Shabbat Shalom,
        * Hanoch*
**
 *"Lazer Beams <http://lazerbrody.typepad.com/lazer_beams/>" - from Rav
Lazer Brody* *The battle
ahead<http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/typepad/pGFj/~3/445117263/the_battle_ahea.html>
*

 Many tzaddikim have told us that Gog and Magog is over. Despite Iran's
nuclear threats, and our neighbors' continued promises to push us into the
sea, both Rav Shalom Arush shlit'a and the Melitzer Rebbe shlit'a continue
to promise that the land of Israel is the safest place on earth for any
family that observes the Sabbath and grants their children a Torah
education. So, like we've said numerous times before, the struggle between
now and the coming of Moshiach will be spiritual, where each one of us will
have to fight to hold on to our faith amongst a sea of atheism and
agnosticism. Rebbe Nachman of Breslev foresaw this spiritual struggle 200
years ago; his disciple, Rebbe Nathan of Breslev, wrote (Sichos HaRan, 35):

*Rebbe Nachman said, "A great wave of atheism is coming to the world." *

*Many times he told us that the world's many sins are resulting in great
disbelief. Happy is he who is strong in his faith.*

*The Rebbe said that the fact that he is predicting this will not prevent
this Godlessness and confusion from increasing. Thousands of years ago,
Daniel and others predicted that this would happen in the days before the
Messiah. They said (Daniel 12:1), "Many will purify themselves and be
refined, and make themselves shining white. The wicked will be evil, and
only the wise shall understand."*

*It has already been predicted that there will be great temptations before
the Messiah's coming, when "many will purify themselves and be refined, and
make themselves shining white" in faith. Fortunate indeed is one who resists
these temptations and remains firm in his belief. He will be worthy of all
the good promised to us by the prophets and sages of old. *

*Knowing full well that this has already been predicted, it would seem
ridiculous for one to succumb to any temptation to abandon his beliefs. It
would seem obvious that every Jew would have enough intelligence to remain
firm. But still it is a great trial. Many will fall away, and for this
reason it is written that "the wicked will be evil."*

*The Rebbe said, "Still, I am revealing this for the sake of the few
faithful who will remain strong in their belief. They will certainly have
great conflicts. But when they see that this has already been predicted, it
will give them additional strength and encouragement."*

Don't be discouraged. Rebbe Nachman also foresaw the Tshuva movement, when
he wrote that, "Many will purify themselves and be refined, and make
themselves shining white in faith." Hashem has indescribable joy from every
person's slightest spiritual gain. He recognizes our good efforts, and will
reward us for them when the time comes. Meanwhile, Hashem doesn't make
bombastic demands of us - all He wants is that we should cling to Him and
His Torah with simple, uncomplicated faith. He wants us to avoid causing
harm, pain, or insult to our fellow human. He wants us to respect each
other, to tell the truth and to deal honestly. Basically, that's all we need
to do in order to win the spiritual war. Keep the faith, and don't fear
anyone or anything except for Hashem. Your steadfast faith is your personal
key to happiness, success, and a very bright future.
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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Fri Nov  7 11:58:57 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:58:57 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] The Jews Who Got Obama Elected
Message-ID: <855590370811070958l5c807033xba4a80558e9a6de9@mail.gmail.com>

>From one of Israel's true (but few..) leaders, Moshe Feiglin:
  Shabbat Shalom,
        * Hanoch*
**

For more on Moshe Feiglin and his platform visit his website at:
*www.MFLikud.com<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001oQQ3qupmyIR5xS6-so0Jxe7MIDweMXSNm3yoQm5BHan69Qo7_0SD2iJDYd_5H4P0rxyb20eIJQmikSUT8rQnQobta0fIf4UGwJLOu4PSRZo=>
*


 *The Jews Who Got Obama Elected: By Moshe Feiglin*

For some reason, it is always the Jews who are deeply involved and sometimes
responsible for the revolutions in the world. It is the Jews who are
inexplicably driven to perfect the world in the name of some cause. If they
are not busy perfecting the world for the Kingdom of the One G-d of Israel,
then they will throw themselves into the perfection business in the name of
communism, liberalism or some other ism. Whenever you peek behind a real
revolution, you will discover a Jew ? pulling the strings.

Barack Obama's meteoric rise to power is a revolution. It is difficult to
describe this revolution because it has gone to great lengths not to
describe itself. Time will tell exactly what revolution we dove into this
week. But one thing is for sure ? it is a revolution, indeed.

Who are the Jews who got Obama elected?

On the surface, the answer is simple. Obama's campaign manager - the brains
behind the brilliant campaign of the young candidate who has never filled an
executive position in his life ? belong, of course, to a Jew - David
Plouffe. Jews were prominent at every level of the Obama campaign, as well.

But I do not think that it is the Jews on Obama's staff who created the
revolution. The two Jews who got Obama elected are in completely different
places. They are two Prisoners of Zion.

The Jew more responsible than any other person for Obama's victory is my
friend, Natan Sharansky. Sharansky is a man to be admired. His personal
biography, captivating personality and uncompromising integrity have won him
wide acclaim. If given the choice, Sharansky may not have chosen the path
onto which G-d put him, but his image has become synonymous with the small
man whose courage broke the Iron Curtain. Whether he intended to or not,
Sharansky has become a cultural icon in the U S ? a beloved hero. He is the
man who defeated America's challenger ? the USSR ? and proved that the human
spirit can triumph against evil. Sharansky promotes traditional American
values - the values that inform the Republicans in general, and Bush in
particular.

Bush and Sharansky became close friends. It was easy for Bush to adopt the
former Prisoner of Zion's doctrine as the resounding proof of the wisdom of
his world view. Sharansky's book "The Case for Democracy," became Bush's
second bible. According to Bush, the book became a permanent fixture on his
night table and he referred to it often. Sharansky became a frequent and
welcomed guest at the White House. Admirably, this modest man did not
publicize the many meetings and personal relationship that he had with the
US president.

What does this have to do with Obama?

Bush seems to have received the inspiration or reinforcement for his
ill-advised quest to democratize Iraq from Sharansky. Bush Senior understood
that the US could not enforce its values on a Muslim society. He made some
serious mistakes in the First Gulf War ? but he did not entangle his country
in an attempt to create an impossible reality on the basis of an appealing,
but patently unrealistic theory.

There is not and will never be democracy in Arab Muslim society. Democratic
and Muslim values are mutually exclusive. America's embroilment in Iraq is
not the result of poor military planning (although that is party of the
problem) as the American Right attempted to claim. America's embroilment in
Iraq stems from an unfounded and even childish world view. The mis-attempt
to democratize Iraq is the point at which Bush's presidency began to
collapse. Barack Obama's rise is just the flip side of the large shadow of
Bush that hovered over McCain's campaign.

There is another Jew ? a Prisoner of Zion ? who also has a hand in Bush's
collapse. When Bush was elected to his second term, I sent him a letter that
was personally delivered into his hands. I addressed him as a believing Jew
writing to an American of deep faith. I congratulated him on his victory and
wrote that I believed that the continued incarceration of Jonathan Pollard ?
a righteous Jew who acted to save his brethren when they were in danger ?
would result in a catastrophic term for Bush.

The Biblical verse "and I will bless those who bless you and those who curse
you, I will curse" is a guiding light for many believing Americans. George
Bush forgot that verse and placed himself on the side of the cursed.

But there is still a chance to rectify the situation. Jonathan Pollard has
been rotting in a US prison more than double the time that Natan Sharansky
was imprisoned in the USSR. Pollard's actions to save his brethren do not go
down well with Israeli politics ? or with American politics, either. But now
that Bush is leaving office, he can be motivated by his conscience instead
of by politics, and pardon Pollard. We must do all that we can to put
Pollard back on Bush's agenda. We must also be on the side of the blessed.


*Support Moshe Feiglin's Campaign
<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001oQQ3qupmyISz6R0lpuzNTZIMbjqnTpfdJHpK9ViuWSWoGN9PW9PLLuEcx2yn3B8C28uIzLDU1SoO3adqn0DTPoWEI6-4Yjk-WPP2Q0DXig9c5GcGT-7vIMqwd5Pkc-fb0WCrQff53kPx-l2OOe4fIqpiQNf-nBz_NWLzWUOymfc=>
*

*Now is the time!

Your donation
 can make Israel the Jewish State
we've always dreamed of
*
*Join the team!
*
[image:
http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001oQQ3qupmyISz6R0lpuzNTZIMbjqnTpfdJHpK9ViuWSWoGN9PW9PLLuEcx2yn3B8C28uIzLDU1SoO3adqn0DTPoWEI6-4Yjk-WPP2Q0DXig9c5GcGT-7vIMqwd5Pkc-fb0WCrQff53kPx-l2OOe4fIqpiQNf-nBz_NWLzWUOymfc=]<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001oQQ3qupmyISz6R0lpuzNTZIMbjqnTpfdJHpK9ViuWSWoGN9PW9PLLuEcx2yn3B8C28uIzLDU1SoO3adqn0DTPoWEI6-4Yjk-WPP2Q0DXig9c5GcGT-7vIMqwd5Pkc-fb0WCrQff53kPx-l2OOe4fIqpiQNf-nBz_NWLzWUOymfc=>
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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Fri Nov  7 12:05:05 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 10:05:05 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] The 'Fix' is in...just like you'd expect in a vassal
	state
Message-ID: <855590370811071005o3c2ad56dwe4e8d79a878d7db8@mail.gmail.com>

Rice Holds Israel to Secret Agreements
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OhaveiEretzYisrael/message/11198;_ylc=X3oDMTJybzc0ZW9qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzYzOTIyNjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA2MTQ0Nzc3BG1zZ0lkAzExMTk4BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyMjYwNzk2NjI->
Posted
by: "Lee Caplan" leescaplan at yahoo.com <leescaplan at yahoo.com?Subject=
Re%3ARice%20Holds%20Israel%20to%20Secret%20Agreements>  leescaplan
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/leescaplan> Thu Nov 6, 2008 4:08 pm (PST)

Rice Holds Israel to Secret Agreements
Thursday, November 6, 2008 7:05 PM

From:

"Barbara Sommer" sommer_1_98 at yahoo.com <sommer_1_98%40yahoo.com>

Two important point from Secretary Condoleezza Rice:

#1.  The concessions made to date by the current Government of Israel will
remain confidential - put another way, the Israeli voters won't know what
concessions Livni has already made when they cast their ballots.

#2 "make certain that the progress that they've achieved doesn't go
backwards" = democracy is a nice thing in the USA, but the citizens of
Israel should not have the right to change Israel's policy via the ballot
box.]

Remarks En Route Tel Aviv, Israel
Secretary Condoleezza Rice
En Route Tel Aviv, Israel
November 6, 2008
www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2008/11/111611.htm

SECRETARY RICE: All right. I'll just make a brief statement and take your
questions since we'll be landing fairly soon.

I'm looking forward to this meeting, this set of meetings. The meetings in
Israel and in the Palestinian Territories are in advance of a meeting of the

Quartet which was requested by the parties to report on their progress in
the negotiated track of Annapolis, that is, to talk about not the substance,

which they continue to want to maintain confidentiality, but to talk with
the international community about sustaining the process, about supporting
it until a two-state solution can be reached.

And so the meeting that we're having in Sharm is that meeting. But I'm going

to go in advance and my purpose here is to continue to work on the Annapolis

process and all of its elements by going to Jenin to look at and, I hope, to

underscore the progress that is being made on the ground in building the
institutions of a future Palestinian state, particularly the security
institutions where there's been significant progress, and then continuing to

talk with the parties about how they might move forward on core issues.

I think it goes without saying that this is a period of political
uncertainty in Israel. There are some political uncertainties also on the
Palestinian side, although I think they will be resolved, and it is our
expectation that the process, the Annapolis process, has laid groundwork
which should make possible the conclusion of the Palestinian state, or the
establishment of a Palestinian state when political circumstances permit.

So with those comments, let me --

QUESTION: When might those circumstances permit? You're talking about after
the Israeli election or after - so it's done and the end of year goal is
finished?

SECRETARY RICE: I've learned not to predict in this business, and I think
that the Israeli Government remains committed - the caretaker government
remains committed to the Annapolis goals. What's very important here,
though, is to note that with the kind of international support that the
Quartet meeting represents, the Arab support that is represented by, again,
a meeting between the Quartet and the Arab follow-up committee, the progress

along the track of Annapolis that was to build the institutions of a
Palestinian state, and finally, the robust discussions that the parties are
able to have on core issues. I think that whatever happens by the end of the

year, you've got a firm foundation for quickly moving this forward to
conclusion.

QUESTION: But you seem to recognize that there won't be any agreement. Does
it mean that you would be ready to offer a document or to prepare something,

kind of frame - role - framework that the parties would use in the next - in

the future?

SECRETARY RICE: I think the fact is that the parties have a framework
themselves; not in the sense that some people talk about a framework
agreement, but they have established mechanisms, they have established ways
to deal with most of the core issues. They have established - we have
established a way to help them deal with Roadmap obligations, a way to help
them deal with the building of the Palestinian institutions on the ground.

And I think at some point, it will be important to wrap all of that work up
one way or another because, you know, international politics is a continuous

process. It doesn't stop with changes of American administrations. And I
know that there is a solid - that a lot of solid groundwork has been laid
here.

Now you say, is this the end of the process, or someone asked is it the end
of the process for me. As I said, I've learned not to predict. And I expect
to be continuing to work on this with the parties until the day that we
leave. But the important thing is to make certain that there is a
recognition of the substantial progress that they have made, a recognition
of the commitment that these parties have made to concluding the work of
Annapolis, and a solid international foundation of support for what they've
tried to do and what they're going to continue to try to do.

QUESTION: Just to ask the question in a very bald way: Both the parties, at
very senior levels, have said an agreement is not possible this year. Do you

concur?

SECRETARY RICE: I am going to - we'll continue to work on this until the day

that we're done. Obviously, Israel is in the midst of elections, and that is

a constraint on the ability of any government to conclude what is the core
conflict, or core issue of conflict, for Israel and the Palestinians and has

been for 40 years. But I think we can sustain momentum. I think we can
sustain international support. I think they can continue to work, as the
government has made clear they intend to do. And we'll see where they are at

the end of the year.

But obviously, Israel is in the middle of an electoral period and that makes

a difference. It is a different circumstance than had a coalition formed. So

I think we have to recognize that. But the Annapolis process, which the
President launched a little over a year ago, or not quite a year ago, I
think has brought them closer to resolution of this conflict than they have
been, maybe ever, and certainly in some time.

QUESTION: One other on this. You said it was going to be important at some
point to wrap all this together. How do you envisage that? Do you, for
example, envisage some kind of a statement or public airing of where they
are to try to memorialize what they have achieved?

SECRETARY RICE: I'm going to continue to respect two principles that have
been very important to keeping this process vital. First of all, that there
is confidentiality about the most serious issues, because they've been the -

they've made very clear, and I think they're right about this, nothing is
agreed until everything is agreed. And in some ways, partial agreements have

the worst of both worlds. You end up creating vetoes when, in fact, when all

of the issues are resolved, people can look at the tradeoffs. And so I think

they're absolutely right to insist that nothing is agreed until all the
things - everything is agreed, and therefore, they do not have to worry
about the United States breaching the confidentiality of their negotiations.

Secondly, we're going to respect the principles - principle which has gotten

us this far, that the United States is assisting the parties in their
bilateral negotiations. And I think that when we get ready to put this all
together, it will be possible to be clearer in how the United States has
assisted. But I'm not going to - I don't think it helps anyone for us to
move away from those two principles, because I think that's why they've
gotten as far as they have.

QUESTION: You mentioned --

QUESTION: You said that they will keep the confidentiality with the Quartet
also. I thought during the UNGA when the Quartet meeting - the Quartet
issued this - its last statement, I thought they were supposed to inform the

Quartet of the advancement of their progress.

SECRETARY RICE: They will inform the Quartet, but I'm quite certain that
everybody understands that there are some elements that are very sensitive,
and I'll leave it to the parties to determine how they're going to approach
the meeting with the Quartet. But I think it will be a very important
briefing for the Quartet, because I think it will help to sustain
international support for the Annapolis process, and that's extremely
important.

QUESTION: You mentioned the follow-up committee, the Arab League follow-up
committee. The Syrians are on that. Are you expecting to see the Syrians
there?

SECRETARY RICE: I don't know which members of the Arab follow-up committee
are coming this time. If the Syrians are there, of course I expect to say
hello to my Syrian counterpart. But I don't know who - which members
(inaudible). It varies sometimes, not - it's a huge follow-up committee, and

they tended to only bring only a few members of it in - at one time.

QUESTION: Right now, the Israeli Government not formed is a problem,
obviously. Are you relieved that Tzipi Livni decided not to form a
government with the Shas, which would have been a problem for the Jerusalem
question? Instead of - she decided not to form it and to wait for February.
Do you think it's a good sign?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, I'm not going to comment on internal Israeli politics
or the decisions that Tzipi Livni made. I would note that the government has

remained committed to the process; that she, as Foreign Minister, has
remained committed to the process. And I would just state what is obvious:
In order to create a Palestinian state, all issues are going to have to be
resolved. And that includes - there will have to ultimately be a resolution
of the issue of Jerusalem one way or another.

But I can't comment on and won't comment on her decision. That was her
decision.

QUESTION: What about internal U.S. politics after your statement from
yesterday? Would you have preferred if McCain had won?

SECRETARY RICE: I told you I wasn't going to talk about politics before and
I'm not going to talk about politics now. But I think it should have been
obvious to you that I was very moved by what happened, and it's an inspiring

moment for Americans. You know, I was asked by a friend a couple days
before - we're both from Alabama, and she said, did you think you'd ever see

it? And I said yes, but I thought I might be 80. (Laughter.)

QUESTION: (Off-mike.)

SECRETARY RICE: Yeah.

QUESTION: You talked to - a moment ago about sort of stating the obvious.
Why are you reluctant to just state the obvious, that the end of the year
simply isn't possible?

SECRETARY RICE: Arshad, I said I don't - I've learned never to predict in
this business. But it's clear that the - that we're in a different situation

now because of - Israel is going to elections. And had we -- had the Israeli

Foreign Minister, Tzipi Livni, formed a coalition, and given that she was
the chief negotiator, I think that would have meant certain things for the
process in terms of perhaps even being able to move toward conclusion that
probably now are very difficult.

But I believe that what we need to do is to continue to advance the process,

continue its momentum, make certain that the progress that they've achieved
doesn't go backwards, because I do think it's important for the parties to
be able to represent to the international community, to the region, and
indeed to their own people that they now have embarked on a process that
they believe will lead to the end of this conflict. And when we set up
Annapolis and launched these negotiations, what they said was they would
make every effort to achieve an agreement by the end of the year. But this
is a conflict of --

QUESTION: (Off-mike.)

SECRETARY RICE: Count it, however many years you want to count it. If you
want to count it at 3,000, you can. But I think you can at least use the
number 40, and given that, the important thing is to get the fundamentals
right. And one of the reasons that we're going to Jenin is that an
underreported and undervalued element of this process is the creation of the

institutions of a future Palestinian state.

I remember early on, we talked about this, that the reason that this is one
of the pillars of Annapolis is that you can't imagine the emergence of an
agreement without the institutions of statehood on the other side. And I
think you will see that with the work that Keith Dayton has done, that
General Jones has done, that Tony Blair has done, but most importantly, that

Salam Fayyad has done, that those institutions of the Palestinian state,
particularly the security institutions, are well on their way to being able
to support and sustain a democratic Palestinian state. And that, perhaps
more important than anything, will make it possible to conclude this
agreement.

Okay. Thank you.
2008/T29-1

Released on November 6, 2008
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From RNDAVAR at aol.com  Fri Nov  7 22:14:30 2008
From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 23:14:30 EST
Subject: [Dialogue] Conference Expenses
Message-ID: <c94.408ecafc.36466c26@aol.com>

Shalom,
 
I wanted to send this note out to let people know that our Congregation  
could use some help in covering expenses incurred during the recent Succoth  
conference. I am not writing to promise any blessings or ten-fold returns  on your 
investments, just wanted to state that we could use some help.
 
I have long held the view that people should be able to receive quality  
biblical teaching without charge and we strive to make this happen every  week. My 
hope has always been that people will understand that while the  teaching is 
provided without charge that there are costs to provide such  teaching.
 
Every month we have bills. While most ministries pass a collection plate,  
ours does not. We have never publicly asked for help in paying the bills. Most  
often I receive just enough to pay the bills before they are due. The  cable 
bill allows us to webcast every week and is around $70.
 
Ministries and religious organizations have so abused the people in terms  of 
finances that I have always had a problem even bringing this subject up. I  
work full time at a paper mill - and when I say full, I mean FULL! Everyone  in 
my congregation works full time as well. None of us receive a  salary, nor do 
we have plans to.
 
This year, I invited speakers who drove many miles to be with us and to  
share their knowledge with anyone who desired to listen in.  I did not pay  them, 
nor did they ask for anything. We did however put them up in a room which  one 
of the members of our congregation put on his credit card. We prepared meals  
at no cost for those who attended. There was no charge for the conference and 
in  the coming weeks, the classes will likely be posted on the web for people 
to  download or listen to.
 
This is not to guilt anyone or to beg.  I just wanted to express that  we 
could use some help in covering the costs this month. If you would like to  help 
us and you are able without causing any hardship, we could certainly use  it.  
Do not feel any pressure to send anything as we all certainly realize  that 
most people are struggling to make ends meet. I am confident that those who  
can help will do so. If anything comes in above the need, we will apply it  
towards improving our technology.
 
If you can help then please send check or money order to:
 
Roots of Faith
P.O. Box 695
St. Francisville, Louisiana, 70775
 
Thanks, Ross
 
Ross K.  Nichols 
_www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) 


**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other 
Holiday needs. Search Now. 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from
-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)
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From RNDAVAR at aol.com  Fri Nov  7 22:32:42 2008
From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 23:32:42 EST
Subject: [Dialogue] Sunday Shul
Message-ID: <cf5.3faef31f.3646706a@aol.com>

Last Sunday night's class did not record.  I think it was human error  and I 
believe that it was my error in particular that caused the problem. At any  
rate I have been working extremely long hours and so it was Wednesday late  
before I could re-do the class.  I went to the synagogue around 10:00 P.M.  and 
did the class for an audience of 1.  Faithful Brian logged in and  listened as I 
spoke to an empty synagogue. I like a crowd better, but the  content was fine 
I believe.  The class is up on my blog for  listening.  This was the second 
class in my series on Restoring Abrahamic  Faith.  The class was on the name of 
God.  
 
Just wanted everyone to know why the class was so late getting up.   With 
Brian's help, the issue that caused me to not record has been  corrected.
 
I also want to remind everyone that I will be teaching the third class in  
this series on Sunday night.  I will be teaching on God's nature and  character. 
I hope that you will be able to listen in live.  Shalom,  Ross
 
Ross K.  Nichols 
_www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) 


**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other 
Holiday needs. Search Now. 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from
-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sat Nov  8 20:32:16 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 12:32:16 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Tonight at Kever Rochel!
Message-ID: <49164BB0.9050104@westnet.com.au>

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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Sat Nov  8 20:33:56 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 18:33:56 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] In memory of our Mother Rachel
Message-ID: <855590370811081833m2ab76e23j7bd35260dacac4b9@mail.gmail.com>

Tonight  -  The 11th of Cheshvan is the Yahrzeit of Rachel Imeinu ? Motzei
Shabbat through Sunday November 8-9, 2008.   You can watch the Yahrzeit of
Rachel Imeinu live from Kever Rachel.   We all know the power of Rachel
Imeinu, as the Torah clearly states about "Kever Rachel -  It stands there
to today"  clearly implying that it will stay in perpetuity.
http://keverrachel.com
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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Sat Nov  8 20:44:58 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 18:44:58 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Tonight at Kever Rochel!
In-Reply-To: <49164BB0.9050104@westnet.com.au>
References: <49164BB0.9050104@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <855590370811081844w62d374beqb56f7562b2c33d8b@mail.gmail.com>

Shavua tov Joe,

     Toda for sending this; I had just forwarded a note about Rachel Imeinu
and then I saw your note.  Some cosmic connection across the timezones,
right?  :-)

     I too have very weird 'vibes' about this coming week, which I had
thought were more related to my trip to Israel, Tuesday night.

     May HaShem bless us in all ways...

     B'Ahavat Yehuda v'Yisrael,
                *Hanoch
*
2008/11/8 JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>

> *Shalom Chaverim,
>
> Unfortunately the post that I sent earlier this morning Australian time has
> been quarantined by the dialogue administrator until Ross can approve it.
>
> It underscored the 70th anniversary of Kristallnact on November 9th 1938.
> In time it will be posted.
>
> However today also marks the anniversary of the death of Rachel Immeinu,(
> our mother Rachel).
> *
> http://mysticalpaths.blogspot.com/2008/11/mystical-paths-at-kever-rochel.html
>
> *
> ?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??
> ???? ?? ??????
> HaShem said in Ramah there is a sound of crying, weeping and bitter sorrow;
> Rachel weeping for her children; she will not be comforted for their loss.
>
> Thursday 13 November / 15 Marcheshvan
> On this day in 782 B.C.E. the rebel king of the Ten Tribes, Yerav'am
> (Jeraboam) son of Nevat, instituted a new festival celebrating his
> inauguration of the idolatrous altar of Beth El, with the intention of
> deflecting the Israelites' attention from the Temple in Jerusalem and its
> kings, the House of David.
>
> Saturday 15 November/ 17 Marcheshvan
> On this day in the year 1656 of the Hebrew calender the heavens opened up
> during the time of Noach.
>
> Somehow, I think we are in for a tumultuous week.
>
> Shalom v'Ahavah
> JOE.
>
> *
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From calbfordham at gmail.com  Sat Nov  1 12:28:59 2008
From: calbfordham at gmail.com (calb fordham)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 13:28:59 -0400
Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Wonderful music!
In-Reply-To: <7323C3D46F414623AA34A84E50808A1B@STNOTE02>
References: <7323C3D46F414623AA34A84E50808A1B@STNOTE02>
Message-ID: <c599cad60811011028x7fbefa0bi74078f75f506138a@mail.gmail.com>

 This is great music!  I listened to this song over and over!  Listen to his
other songs on Youtube also.  You can get his CDs also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pyQzUUyp6U&feature=related
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sat Nov  8 03:07:57 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 19:07:57 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] KRISTALLNACT.
Message-ID: <491556ED.8020805@westnet.com.au>

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sat Nov  8 21:59:14 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 13:59:14 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Tonight at Kever Rochel!]
Message-ID: <49166012.20705@westnet.com.au>

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Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Tonight at Kever Rochel!
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sat Nov  8 22:04:40 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 14:04:40 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Fwd: Wonderful music!]
Message-ID: <49166158.4090705@westnet.com.au>

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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Sat Nov  8 22:46:49 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 20:46:49 -0800
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Tonight at Kever Rochel!]
In-Reply-To: <49166012.20705@westnet.com.au>
References: <49166012.20705@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <855590370811082046ub9446ddh9f3c2ad63fa5ee22@mail.gmail.com>

Shalom Achi Joe,

     I probably could use a lobotomy, actually... just one correction, if I
may.  At the very end of your note you mentioned, 'Hanoch at the Kotel.'
In reality, it will most likely be, 'Hanoch on the Har HaBayit (Temple
Mount)....'

      In addition, next Saturday night/Sunday, will be the 18th Yartzeit of
my teacher of beloved memory, Rav Kahane, May HaShem avenge his blood.  And
I will be at his grave site.

      18 years since he was the first victim of islamic terror in the United
States...

             *Hanoch
*
2008/11/8 JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>

> *Shavua Tov Hanoch,
>
> I think we both need lobotomies. This is not the first time that we have
> somehow had the same inspiration at the same time.
> However we have the advantage in the land of Oz, coz we are 14 hours ahead.
> * :-).* You might construe that as a victory in so far as you thought of
> the same thing at the same time even though you are behind in time. I told
> you I needed a lobotomy.
>
> On a serious note , I will be praying and thinking of you during your trip
> to the Holy Eretz Yisrael. I will not hide that fact that I am green with
> envy. I might send you a photo. Actually I have just put on a mud mask from
> the dead sea that was given to me as a present from some Yisraeli friends of
> mine. Actually not green, but black. I can do an Obama impersonations. The
> Italian Prime minister Silvio Berlusconi made a candid remark regarding
> Barack that created a big stir in international circles " I really admire
> Barack. He is handsome but I really love his sun tan" Boo Boomb. Ah !
> Silvio. He has such ways with words.
>
> Kristallnacht, Rachel crying for her children, the heavens opening !!!!
> Hanoch at the Kotel.
>
> Coincidence ? Time will tell.
>
> Take care, dear Achi.
>
> Shalom v'Ahavah
> JOE.
> *
>
> Shavua tov Joe,
>
>      Toda for sending this; I had just forwarded a note about Rachel Imeinu
> and then I saw your note.  Some cosmic connection across the timezones,
> right?  :-)
>
>      I too have very weird 'vibes' about this coming week, which I had
> thought were more related to my trip to Israel, Tuesday night.
>
>      May HaShem bless us in all ways...
>
>      B'Ahavat Yehuda v'Yisrael,
>                 *Hanoch
> *
> 2008/11/8 JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>
>
>> *Shalom Chaverim,
>>
>> Unfortunately the post that I sent earlier this morning Australian time
>> has been quarantined by the dialogue administrator until Ross can approve
>> it.
>>
>> It underscored the 70th anniversary of Kristallnact on November 9th 1938.
>> In time it will be posted.
>>
>> However today also marks the anniversary of the death of Rachel Immeinu,(
>> our mother Rachel).
>> *
>> http://mysticalpaths.blogspot.com/2008/11/mystical-paths-at-kever-rochel.html
>>
>> *
>> ?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??
>> ???? ?? ??????
>> HaShem said in Ramah there is a sound of crying, weeping and bitter
>> sorrow; Rachel weeping for her children; she will not be comforted for their
>> loss.
>>
>> Thursday 13 November / 15 Marcheshvan
>> On this day in 782 B.C.E. the rebel king of the Ten Tribes, Yerav'am
>> (Jeraboam) son of Nevat, instituted a new festival celebrating his
>> inauguration of the idolatrous altar of Beth El, with the intention of
>> deflecting the Israelites' attention from the Temple in Jerusalem and its
>> kings, the House of David.
>>
>> Saturday 15 November/ 17 Marcheshvan
>> On this day in the year 1656 of the Hebrew calender the heavens opened up
>> during the time of Noach.
>>
>> Somehow, I think we are in for a tumultuous week.
>>
>> Shalom v'Ahavah
>> JOE.
>>
>> *
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1776 - Release Date: 11/8/2008
> 6:49 PM
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sat Nov  8 23:12:28 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:12:28 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Tonight at Kever
	Rochel!]]
Message-ID: <4916713C.1080906@westnet.com.au>

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Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Tonight at Kever Rochel!]
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 20:46:49 -0800
Size: 18801
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From rndavar at aol.com  Sat Nov  8 23:16:39 2008
From: rndavar at aol.com (Ross Nichols)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 05:16:39 +0000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Tonight at Kever Rochel!]
In-Reply-To: <49166012.20705@westnet.com.au>
References: <49166012.20705@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <1481703100-1226207779-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1533232829-@bxe114.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I will refrain from wading into political discussions at this time since I am up working on my class and this list was not formed to discuss such matters. I must respond at least to say that anyone who is shallow enough to point to skin color in their jokes certainly is in no way living Torah. I live in the deep south and find this ignorance at every turn. So if I am misreading the comment from the Italian PM then forgive the reaction, but if this is a racial comment, please refrain from passing these on to a list that was formed for the purpose of advancing Torah learning.

Shalom, Ross

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>

Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 13:59:14 
To: <dialogue at rootsoffaith.org>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Tonight at Kever Rochel!]


_______________________________________________



From jid at westnet.com.au  Sat Nov  8 23:57:28 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:57:28 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Tonight at Kever
	Rochel!]]
Message-ID: <49167BC8.60705@westnet.com.au>

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Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Tonight at Kever Rochel!]
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From rndavar at aol.com  Sun Nov  9 00:05:26 2008
From: rndavar at aol.com (Ross Nichols)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 06:05:26 +0000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Tonight at
	KeverRochel!]]
In-Reply-To: <49167BC8.60705@westnet.com.au>
References: <49167BC8.60705@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <857913461-1226210677-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-840300188-@bxe114.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

We all make mistakes and I appreciate your note. Keep posting Torah based materials. I appreciate them and I am certain that others do as well. Shalom from around the world! 
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>

Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:57:28 
To: <dialogue at rootsoffaith.org>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Tonight at Kever
	Rochel!]]


_______________________________________________



From jid at westnet.com.au  Sun Nov  9 00:32:21 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 16:32:21 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] The Sign on the Forehead
Message-ID: <491683F5.5060004@westnet.com.au>

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From mhyde7 at tds.net  Sun Nov  9 06:47:10 2008
From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 07:47:10 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Hold on! He's coming!
Message-ID: <010901c94269$499cc560$0400a8c0@marvin>

It?s been a few days since I have written but I have been here almost everyday reading and enjoying the many post.  Many of us are scattered around the world. Sometimes just a couple meeting together at a time, others of us have no one we can fellowship with and so we travel this journey in a more solitarily sort of way.  But through this group we can learn, share and grow with each other regardless of were we are.  

 

Several years ago, I would attend a gathering once a year and one of the best parts of that annual meeting was the sitting in a big circle with all of our chairs pulled up and having  a good ole discussion of what ever came up.  Different people, form many different places, with many different perspectives, but all with a love for GOD, Torah and Israel.   Was that ever food for the soul!   I can imagine that during the Succoth conference that was just held the same kind of thing happened, sitting around a table or with chairs pulled up around a campfire seekers of truth with a love for GOD,  Torah and Israel set and shared and learned and experienced in a small way what hopefully will be a way of life in the near future.

 

So, my point??   Change is coming!.....   Continue to dialogue,  continue to have faith, continue to look to God, Torah and to Israel as we await our coming redemption.   The wife made a comment the other day, she said, ?Change is coming, it?s nothing new, it?s inevitable ; what matters is how we deal with it and are we prepared for it.?

 

I find myself now walking though the valley of the shadow of death(middle age).   I read my Bible and look at the newspaper, I talk to God and ask, How long till we see the divine intervention that will forever change this world?   Some days I think it is almost upon us, other days I wonder if we all will be long dead and gone before the day that has been appointed for our redemption.   

 

Job told his friends how long will you vex my soul with your words? You magnify yourselves against me.

 And be it indeed that I have erred, Mine error remaineth with myself. 

 If indeed ye will magnify yourselves against me, And plead against me my reproach; 

Know now that God hath subverted me in my cause, And hath compassed me with his net. 

Behold, I cry out of wrong, but I am not heard: I cry for help, but there is no justice. 

He hath walled up my way that I cannot pass, And hath set darkness in my paths. 

He hath stripped me of my glory, And taken the crown from my head. 

He hath broken me down on every side, and I am gone; And my hope hath he plucked up like a tree. 

He hath also kindled his wrath against me, And he counteth me unto him as one of his adversaries. 

His troops come on together, And cast up their way against me, And encamp round about my tent. 

He hath put my brethren far from me, And mine acquaintance are wholly estranged from me. 

My kinsfolk have failed, And my familiar friends have forgotten me. 

They that dwell in my house, and my maids, count me for a stranger; I am an alien in their sight. 

I call unto my servant, and he giveth me no answer, Though I entreat him with my mouth. 

My breath is strange to my wife, And my supplication to the children of mine own mother. 

Even young children despise me; If I arise, they speak against me. 

All my familiar friends abhor me, And they whom I loved are turned against me. 

My bone cleaveth to my skin and to my flesh, And I am escaped with the skin of my teeth. 

Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; For the hand of God hath touched me. 

Why do ye persecute me as God, And are not satisfied with my flesh? 

Oh that my words were now written! Oh that they were inscribed in a book! 

That with an iron pen and lead They were graven in the rock for ever! 

But as for me I know that my Redeemer liveth, And at last he will stand up upon the earth: 

And after my skin, even this body, is destroyed, Then without my flesh shall I see God; H433

????  /  ?????

'e?lo?ahh

 

Isa 44:8  Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God[H433 'e?lo?ahh]; I know not any.

 

 

Continue to have faith, continue to believe the vision of The prophets!

 

Shalom,

Marvin

 

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Sun Nov  9 08:28:23 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 09:28:23 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] The Sign on the Forehead
In-Reply-To: <491683F5.5060004@westnet.com.au>
References: <491683F5.5060004@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS763C5800F09B76FEE3A15BA1B0@phx.gbl>

Thank you, Joe, for this powerful word from Moshe Kempinski.  I may be simplifying things too much here, but it seems to me that those few Jews who would believe and follow HaShem, thus resisting the plans of a possible World Government-type program being foisted upon Yisrael, are therefore being damned as heretics to the New World Order.  As usual, if the Jews try to hold their small, G-d-given place in the Earth, they are hated and shunned by ones who hate and shun their G-d.  It would seem most important to be counted among those who stand for G-d, Torah and the Land in this Time.  I don't know what those teenagers were doing up there on the hills of Judea and Samaria to draw such consternation from the powers that be, but I'm wondering if this grandmother should be up their with them?

Pat  


From: JOE INDOMENICO 
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 1:32 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] The Sign on the Forehead


The Sign on the Forehead




by Moshe Kempinski....

Israel is surrounded by enemies, but the greatest threat lies within.

The dark clouds in the skies of our world are quickly gathering and seem ever more menacing. The clarity that seems so prevalent when the sky is blue and the sun is blazing seems to be dissolving in a frightening pace. The world is in intent on continuing its spiral into chaos and confusion. Axioms and understandings that were once anchors in our human voyage have been uprooted. Evil has become a relative and amorphous word while the word Good seems to have become a limited definition of whatever it is that fills one's own individual needs.

Rav Nachman of Bratslav tells the story about a king and his servant. The servant tells the king that there was a terrible plague with the new crop of wheat . It was contaminated and anyone who would eat of it would go insane. There was nothing else for the people to eat .But the servant assured the king that he had set aside enough of last year's wheat for the two of them. They could eat the old wheat and not go insane.

The king refused to eat anything other than what his subjects were eating, explaining that if the world goes insane and the two of them remain sane, they would be viewed as the insane ones., "You and I will eat what everyone else eats. However, we will mark our foreheads with a symbol, so that when I look at you and you look at me, the two of us will know that we are insane!"

The world has been suffering from such contaminated crops of wheat for some time now. A plague that seems to have swept across the European continent has landed on the shores of the Untied States in time for their elections. This land of Israel was not spared and has been overrun since the failed Oslo Peace process with the Palestinian terrorists was begun.

What then is the sign on the foreheads that we need to look for in order to re-establish balance.

During the darkening months of Heshvan it may be hard to remember the comforting glow of Tishrei. It may be difficult at times to reconnect to that incredible feeling of safety and protection we all felt as we sat under the clouds of Glory in our Sukkoth. Yet the instructions for re-entering the world of the "crazy wheat" were given during the festival of Sukkoth as well. On the Shabbat of Chol Hamoed Sukkoth we read the following from the book of Exodus

"And HaShem said unto Moses: 'I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken, for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name.' And he said: 'Show me, I pray Thee, Your glory.' And He said: 'I will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of HaShem before you ; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.' And He said: 'You cannot not see My face, for no man shall see Me and live.' And HaShem said: 'Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand upon the rock. And it shall come to pass, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and will cover you ( VeSakotee) with My hand until I have passed by. And I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen.'(Exodus 33:17-23)

Though we may be finding ourselves alone in a cleft or crevice during the coming passing storms, we will hearken back to the memory of the covering of Sukkoth . It, like the covering of Hashem's hand ,"and will cover you ( VeSakotee) with My hand until I have passed by" will give us the stamina and vision to see all that needs to be seen and understand all that needs to be understood . Only after experiencing the passing of and sensing the impact of the ever developing hand of Divine destiny, will history ever achieve real meaning.

A decision seems to have been made in Israel 's government to stoke the fires of hatred in the land. In the inner chambers of the crumbling and faltering cabinet it would seem that a decision was arrived at regarding the villifying of the settlers and their children. That would explain the sudden outpouring of "concern" and consternation regarding the remarks and actions of some teenagers on the windswept hilltops of Judea and Samaria .

Massive amounts of weapons are still being smuggled into the Gaza strip. Missiles are still being fired into Israel from the ruins of Jewish settlements in Gush Katif. Leftist Israelis, European anarchists and Palestinians are staging a weekly violent demonstration at Bilin, wounding soldiers and civilians. Several terrorist incidents in Jerusalem have recently been thwarted. Yet the Government held urgent discussions on "the recent bout of violence directed towards security forces in West Bank by Jewish extremists" All this coincidently timed to occur around the date of the commemoration of Yitzchak Rabin's murder.

Defense Minister Ehud Barak declared: "These riots and public disturbances are extremely grave, and their objective is to undermine the authority of the state and its ability to impose order on its citizens. There is an attempt here by a group of extremists to fracture the authority of the state and its representatives in the field, the IDF and the police, born of their pretension to dictate to the state the patterns of behavior seen in Judea and Samaria."

One needs to remember we are talking about a handful of teenage boys and girls who dared to resist the violent demolition of the Federman house near Kiryat Arba.

Vice Premier Ramon bellowed recently that "Several hundred unruly Jewish hooligans are running amuck in the Territories, beating IDF officers, breaking bones, (sic) and trying to assassinate Professor (Ze'ev) Sternhell( sic). And the government stands before them trembling and helpless, and all the law enforcement agencies explain why nothing can be done against them. I am convinced that if these were Palestinians, they would all be behind bars by now,"

One needs to remind Ramon that had they been Palestinians they would be immediately released from prison as a "goodwill gesture" as opposed to the young Jewish girls who sat in Jail with no recourse for months.

It may very well be that the orders to destroy the Federman house in the accompaniment of the violent Yassam thug unit may have been given to stir the pot and create the reactions and enhance the image of "violent settlers".

Why all this effort?

Our Prime Minister, Olmert, is being charged or suspected of common thievery. Our Minister of Defense, Barak , lost his position in a landslide vote after having been a failure as a Prime Minister. Our Vice Premier, Ramon, has been convicted of sexual misconduct. Their coalition government is in tatters and their only defense from the scrutiny of the Israeli public is an offense. Setting up the settlers as Public Enemy #1 and then "cracking down" on them, may be the antidote to help cover over their own failures and incompetence.

With the media completely backing them up in the effort, one might wonder how the nationalist camp expects to withstand the renewed attack from their fellow countrymen. The press, the judicial system, the political leadership and the world has already prejudged each and every resident of the biblical heartland. Resisting such an onslaught seem to be a feat more impossible that withstanding the terror attacks and missiles of those who are clearly identified as the enemy.

An interesting insight into the torah portion of Lech Lecha might give us some direction.

And, behold, the word of HaShem came unto him, saying: 'This man shall not be your heir; but he that shall come forth out of your own loins shall be your heir And He brought him forward , and said: 'Look now toward heaven, and count the stars, if you are able to count them'; and He said unto him: 'Thus shall be your children .' And he believed inHaShem; and He counted it to him as righteousness.( Genesis 15:4-6)

G-d tells Abraham to go out and count the stars though He also tells him that that is an impossible task. Then G-d says "'Thus shall be your children ". The simple understanding of the verse explains that Abraham is told that his children would be as numerous as the stars. The deeper understanding says much more.

G-d tells Abraham to do an impossible task and then we see a pause. At the end of that pause G-d begins to speak again and says "'Thus shall be your children ".

What did Abraham do during that pause? Clearly he went out and started counting the stars just as G-d had asked him to do. At that point G-d tells him that it is that characteristic that will exemplify his children. They will endeavor to do even the impossible because that is what their beloved G-d asked them to do.

It is that passion and faith that is so infuriating people who have no passion except for themselves and no faith except in their own power. It is that vision and commitment that so angers people who have lost the ability to see.

These young people are being condemned by the press and the leadership as agents of hatred and discord. Yet the reality is so clearly different. It is these young people who have withstood the truncheons and horse at Amona and the fists and batons in Kiryat Arba that represent simple unconditional love.

Love for the land of Israel and love for the vision of what the people of Israel will yet grow to become. That is what will be the sign on the forehead, love for

the G-d of Israel, the people of Israel and the land of Israel


Shalom v'Ahavah
JOE.




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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sun Nov  9 15:19:46 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:19:46 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] The Sign on the Forehead]
Message-ID: <491753F2.2020905@westnet.com.au>

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From: "Pat Robbins" <patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] The Sign on the Forehead
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 09:28:23 -0500
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Mon Nov 10 17:09:02 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:09:02 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] YISRAEL FOREVER.
Message-ID: <4918BF0E.8030701@westnet.com.au>

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 10 17:20:21 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:20:21 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] YISRAEL FOREVER.
In-Reply-To: <4918BF0E.8030701@westnet.com.au>
References: <4918BF0E.8030701@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS457CF27AD3A0974358EABBA1A0@phx.gbl>

My best wishes as well, Hanoch.  May you and Kyra have a wonderful reunion.  Will be remembering you in my prayers.

Love,

Pat


From: JOE INDOMENICO 
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 6:09 PM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] YISRAEL FOREVER.


Shalom Hanoch,

on the eve of your departure to the Holy Eretz Yisrael, I would like to wish you a blessed and safe trip to your ancestral home land.

I pray that HaShem guides you and keeps you on your journey and that He fulfills your heart's desire.

Best wishes and regards to Kyra.

I suggest that all members on this dialogue list to keep Hanoch in your prayers.

Looking forward to hearing about your journey on your return.

Bon Voyage
Your Achi JOE.
ps : Regards to Tracy when you rendezvous in Yerushalayim 



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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Mon Nov 10 18:14:13 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:14:13 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] YISRAEL FOREVER.
In-Reply-To: <4918BF0E.8030701@westnet.com.au>
References: <4918BF0E.8030701@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <855590370811101614p66fa67cared9767892d4a82dd@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Joe,

    Thanks so much for the kind wishes; there are many, many things that are
'supposed' to happen during this trip, but we'll see what HaShem's got in
mind  :-)  Hope to be in touch with everyone once I can get hold of a
computer.

     Shalom v'L'Hitraot,
             *  Hanoch*



On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 6:09 PM, JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au> wrote:

> *Shalom Hanoch,
>
> on the eve of your departure to the Holy Eretz Yisrael, I would like to
> wish you a blessed and safe trip to your ancestral home land.
>
> I pray that HaShem guides you and keeps you on your journey and that He
> fulfills your heart's desire.
>
> Best wishes and regards to Kyra.
>
> I suggest that all members on this dialogue list to keep Hanoch in your
> prayers.
>
> Looking forward to hearing about your journey on your return.
>
> Bon Voyage
> Your Achi JOE.
> ps : Regards to Tracy when you rendezvous in Yerushalayim
> *
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Mon Nov 10 18:16:20 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:16:20 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] YISRAEL FOREVER.
In-Reply-To: <BLU125-DS457CF27AD3A0974358EABBA1A0@phx.gbl>
References: <4918BF0E.8030701@westnet.com.au>
	<BLU125-DS457CF27AD3A0974358EABBA1A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <855590370811101616t1fe494fdhd06547895a68ec89@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks so much Pat - very sweet, and very appreciated.

           * Hanoch*
*
*
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Pat Robbins <patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com>wrote:

>  My best wishes as well, Hanoch.  May you and Kyra have a wonderful
> reunion.  Will be remembering you in my prayers.
>
> Love,
>
> Pat
>
>  *From:* JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 10, 2008 6:09 PM
> *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
> *Subject:* [Dialogue] YISRAEL FOREVER.
>
> *Shalom Hanoch,
>
> on the eve of your departure to the Holy Eretz Yisrael, I would like to
> wish you a blessed and safe trip to your ancestral home land.
>
> I pray that HaShem guides you and keeps you on your journey and that He
> fulfills your heart's desire.
>
> Best wishes and regards to Kyra.
>
> I suggest that all members on this dialogue list to keep Hanoch in your
> prayers.
>
> Looking forward to hearing about your journey on your return.
>
> Bon Voyage
> Your Achi JOE.
> ps : Regards to Tracy when you rendezvous in Yerushalayim
> *
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Tue Nov 11 05:19:37 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:19:37 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] Protesting Arabs Accept Rabbi's Invitation to Join Torah
 Event - Good News - Israel News - Israel National News
Message-ID: <49196A49.4000800@westnet.com.au>

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 11 07:50:30 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 08:50:30 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Protesting Arabs Accept Rabbi's Invitation to Join
	Torah Event - Good News - Israel News - Israel National News
In-Reply-To: <49196A49.4000800@westnet.com.au>
References: <49196A49.4000800@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS2A8A45467B2DE4C9262FDBA150@phx.gbl>

Beautiful, Joe!  Yafo was one of my husband and my favorite places.  We used to walk there often, and sit down close to the sea to enjoy a little picnic meal.  I felt an almost mystical attachment to that lovely old city from the first moment I ever entered it, some 26 years ago.  It brings a precious joy to my heart to read this story and see the video clips.  Thank you so much!

Love,

Avigail/Pat    


From: JOE INDOMENICO 
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:19 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] Protesting Arabs Accept Rabbi's Invitation to Join Torah Event - Good News - Israel News - Israel National News


Shalom Chaverim,

what a wonderful, inspiring and refreshing event amidst the turmoil of the current chaotic world.

Absolutely amazing......Baruch HaShem.

Shalom v'Ahavah
JOE.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/128319 


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From batsimcha at mindspring.com  Tue Nov 11 23:00:31 2008
From: batsimcha at mindspring.com (Joy Beth)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:00:31 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Houston area speaking schedule
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20081111225840.035c68c0@pop.mindspring.com>

Hi All,

Just wanted to let anyone in or near Texas know that Rabbi Greenbaum of 
Azamra Institute in Jerusalem (www.azamra.org) will be in the 
Houston/Beaumont area this weekend and part of next week (and Dallas after 
that - see next message).
His speaking schedule is attached - he will be speaking at two synagogues 
in Houston, and next Tuesday night at Joe Good's in Nederland. The talk at 
Joe's will be broadcast on hatikva.org and universaltorah.com, so if you're 
not in the area, tune in next Tuesday night... as some of you know, he is a 
wonderful and inspiring Torah teacher.

Thanks,
JoyBeth
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From batsimcha at mindspring.com  Tue Nov 11 23:05:29 2008
From: batsimcha at mindspring.com (Joy Beth)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:05:29 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20081111230040.035c8d08@pop.mindspring.com>

For anyone in the Dallas area,

Attached is Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule.

Thanks,
JoyBeth
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From mhyde7 at tds.net  Wed Nov 12 05:37:39 2008
From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 06:37:39 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Temple Mount Not Jewish
Message-ID: <000001c944bb$13c41340$0400a8c0@marvin>

Interesting article form Arutz Sheva.    Can they rewrite history like that?
It was reported that 78% of the Jewish population in America stood up for
Barak Hussein Obama,  I wonder what percentage of the Jewish population will
believe Ahmed Quriel, he is considered to be a moderate?

 

 

5. Claim: Temple Mount not Jewish
by Hillel Fendel Claim: Temple Mount not JewishTop PA officials continue to
deny Israel's connection to Judaism's most sacred spot in the world - the
Temple Mount. 

The latest to do so is Ahmed Qurei, known also as Abu Ala, who has led and
continues to lead Palestinian Authority negotiations with Israel. In a small
media briefing this past Wednesday, Qurei said, "Israeli occupation
authorities are trying to find a so-called Jewish historical connection
between Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, but all these attempts will fail.
The [Temple Moun is 100 percent Muslim."

The remarks were reported
<http://trailer.web-view.net/Links/0X317E702AA2016C6546E1740D7EE93AAF0E21210
70A4A3C0508092B298111A57A2F09D29555AB3C8ACAA893E92F7E54F7126EF57621420D18FB6
660AFFA374CEC.htm>  by Aaron Klein of WorldNetDaily.com, one of only three
journalists present for the briefing. The others, Klein reported, were an
Arab affairs correspondent for a major Israeli newspaper and a reporter for
PA newspaper Al-Ayam. The Israeli newspaper chose not to publish Qurei's
remarks.

"The world must be mobilized against all these Israeli attempts to change
the symbols and signs of Jerusalem," Qurei said. "There was no so-called
Jewish Temple. It's imaginary. Jerusalem is 100 percent Muslim."

Qurei called on the Arab world in particular to "interfere to stop the
Israeli plans in Jerusalem, to stop the Israeli attempts to create a Jewish
character to Jerusalem and the Al Aqsa mosque. Also to the Old City, which
is the first step in the war to defend Jerusalem and Al Aqsa."

"They are competing against time in order to create facts on ground in the
surrounding imaginary Temple," added Qurei, who is considered a moderate by
both the U.S. and Israeli governments. 

The Temple and Judaism

As is well-known, the two Jewish Holy Temples stood on what is now known as
the Temple Mount, or Mount Moriah, in Jerusalem long before the advent of
Islam in the world.  King Solomon built the first one over 2,800 years ago,
and King Cyrus of Persia allowed the construction of the second one
approximately 500 years later; Islam is less than 1,400 years old.

The Second Temple was destroyed some 1,940 years ago, when the Jews were
exiled by the Romans. 

Jewish Law stipulates that Jerusalem must be remembered at weddings, new
homes, and in many ceremonies and rituals - especially prayers, which are
directed both physically and spiritually towards Jerusalem. 

Waqf Debunks Claim

The Waqf itself - the Supreme Moslem Council of Jerusalem which now runs the
Temple Mount day-to-day - has debunked the Moslem claim that the holy site
is not Jewish - in a Temple
<http://trailer.web-view.net/Links/0XA44459CCE25C498EB30AB33649DD26F24026B95
701D4FAD636A883C22519F0E2614C839CA1FD4578CAA893E92F7E54F7126EF57621420D18FB6
660AFFA374CEC.htm>  Mount guide it published in 1925.



Though Islam claims Jerusalem to be its third-holiest city, after Mecca and
Medina, it is not mentioned once in the Quran. Moslems do not pray towards
Jerusalem - in fact, they turn their backsides on the Dome of the Rock when
they bow down - nor is it mentioned by name in their prayers.

 

 

 

 

 

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov 12 07:00:47 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:00:47 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule]
Message-ID: <491AD37F.9080506@westnet.com.au>

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov 12 07:17:31 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:17:31 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Temple Mount Not Jewish]
Message-ID: <491AD76B.6010304@westnet.com.au>

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From long777 at att.net  Wed Nov 12 07:19:22 2008
From: long777 at att.net (Jeremy Long)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 05:19:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule]
Message-ID: <290717.88428.qm@web180102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I spoke to the Rabbi at Torah VaChessed in Houston yesterday and he told me the start time for the Houston engagements was 8:30 but that they were not ever on time so I should show around 9:00..haha.. I really want to go but that is a pretty late start time considering I have to work the next day and be up at 5am. I am sure it will last until midnight or so. Decisions, decisions. Anyone else on here live near Houston and planning to go? It would be great to meet someone from the dialogue at the meeting.
Anyway, time to get to work, thank you all for a great resource that we have in this forum. I dont post much but look forward to all the daily posts from you all.

Peace and Blessings

Jeremy




________________________________
From: JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:00:47 AM
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule]

Shalom JoyBeth,

Rabbi Greenbaum is very much an admired and well respected all around the world.

Thank you for passing on this information.I will be tuning in as the time gap allows.

Hopefully one day this inspiring man will travel to the land down under to the wild colonial boys.

Todah again!!!

Shalom v'Ahavah
JOE.
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From betty_m_eddy at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 12 22:05:15 2008
From: betty_m_eddy at yahoo.com (Betty Eddy)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:05:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Houston area speaking schedule
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20081111225840.035c68c0@pop.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <681177.47300.qm@web30403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Will you and Brian be going? If so, when. I think I would like to go to at least one of his talks, don't know which one, yet.

Betty Eddy
  
      
   

--- On Tue, 11/11/08, Joy Beth <batsimcha at mindspring.com> wrote:
From: Joy Beth <batsimcha at mindspring.com>
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Houston area speaking schedule
To: uilist at unitedisrael.org, dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 11:00 PM

Hi All,

Just wanted to let anyone in or near Texas know that Rabbi Greenbaum of Azamra
Institute in Jerusalem (www.azamra.org) will be in the Houston/Beaumont area
this weekend and part of next week (and Dallas after that - see next message).
His speaking schedule is attached - he will be speaking at two synagogues in
Houston, and next Tuesday night at Joe Good's in Nederland. The talk at
Joe's will be broadcast on hatikva.org and universaltorah.com, so if
you're not in the area, tune in next Tuesday night... as some of you know,
he is a wonderful and inspiring Torah teacher.

Thanks,
JoyBeth_______________________________________________



      
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov 12 23:17:56 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:17:56 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] Lazer Beams: Refugees in Pajamas
Message-ID: <491BB884.4070402@westnet.com.au>

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From dialogue at bdjones.com  Thu Nov 13 04:12:53 2008
From: dialogue at bdjones.com (Brian)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:12:53 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Houston speaking schedule]
In-Reply-To: <290717.88428.qm@web180102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <290717.88428.qm@web180102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200811131019.mADAJfeN007812@nlpi025.prodigy.net>

Jeremy,

Joy Beth (batsimcha) and I are planning to be there. The only others 
I know of in town are Betty and Kim, although I think they are some 
distance away from that area. We don't understand the lateness of it either.

Brian

At 07:19 AM 11/12/2008, you wrote:
>I spoke to the Rabbi at Torah VaChessed in Houston yesterday and he 
>told me the start time for the Houston engagements was 8:30 but that 
>they were not ever on time so I should show around 9:00..haha.. I 
>really want to go but that is a pretty late start time considering I 
>have to work the next day and be up at 5am. I am sure it will last 
>until midnight or so. Decisions, decisions. Anyone else on here live 
>near Houston and planning to go? It would be great to meet someone 
>from the dialogue at the meeting.
>Anyway, time to get to work, thank you all for a great resource that 
>we have in this forum. I dont post much but look forward to all the 
>daily posts from you all.
>
>Peace and Blessings
>
>Jeremy
>
>
>From: JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>
>To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
>Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:00:47 AM
>Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule]
>
>Shalom JoyBeth,
>
>Rabbi Greenbaum is very much an admired and well respected all 
>around the world.
>
>Thank you for passing on this information.I will be tuning in as the 
>time gap allows.
>
>Hopefully one day this inspiring man will travel to the land down 
>under to the wild colonial boys.
>
>Todah again!!!
>
>Shalom v'Ahavah
>JOE.
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG.
>Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1783 - Release Date: 
>11/12/2008 10:01 AM
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From batsimcha at mindspring.com  Wed Nov 12 23:31:05 2008
From: batsimcha at mindspring.com (Joy Beth)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:31:05 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule]
In-Reply-To: <290717.88428.qm@web180102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <290717.88428.qm@web180102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20081112232733.04123db8@pop.mindspring.com>

Hi Jeremy,

We are planning to go to the party Sunday night, and maybe to other events 
if possible (but probably not the Hebrew-only class on Monday night). We 
can't figure out why they are starting so late.

What part of Houston are you from? We're in Clear Lake. Hope you can make 
it to one of the events. It would be nice to meet you (I don't think I have 
before, have I? :-) & I think would be good to meet Rabbi Avraham.

:-)
JoyBeth

At 07:19 AM 11/12/2008, you wrote:
>I spoke to the Rabbi at Torah VaChessed in Houston yesterday and he told 
>me the start time for the Houston engagements was 8:30 but that they were 
>not ever on time so I should show around 9:00..haha.. I really want to go 
>but that is a pretty late start time considering I have to work the next 
>day and be up at 5am. I am sure it will last until midnight or so. 
>Decisions, decisions. Anyone else on here live near Houston and planning 
>to go? It would be great to meet someone from the dialogue at the meeting.
>Anyway, time to get to work, thank you all for a great resource that we 
>have in this forum. I dont post much but look forward to all the daily 
>posts from you all.
>
>Peace and Blessings
>
>Jeremy
>
>
>From: JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>
>To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
>Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:00:47 AM
>Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule]
>
>Shalom JoyBeth,
>
>Rabbi Greenbaum is very much an admired and well respected all around the 
>world.
>
>Thank you for passing on this information.I will be tuning in as the time 
>gap allows.
>
>Hopefully one day this inspiring man will travel to the land down under to 
>the wild colonial boys.
>
>Todah again!!!
>
>Shalom v'Ahavah
>JOE.
>
>_______________________________________________
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG.
>Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1782 - Release Date: 11/11/2008 
>7:32 PM

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From batsimcha at mindspring.com  Wed Nov 12 23:42:15 2008
From: batsimcha at mindspring.com (Joy Beth)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:42:15 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule]
In-Reply-To: <491AD37F.9080506@westnet.com.au>
References: <491AD37F.9080506@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20081112233158.041189c0@pop.mindspring.com>

I'll bet he would love to come to the land down under (and so would I !!) 
if it could be worked out financially - that's always the rub isn't it...
:-)
JB

At 07:00 AM 11/12/2008, you wrote:
>Shalom JoyBeth,
>
>Rabbi Greenbaum is very much an admired and well respected all around the 
>world.
>
>Thank you for passing on this information.I will be tuning in as the time 
>gap allows.
>
>Hopefully one day this inspiring man will travel to the land down under to 
>the wild colonial boys.
>
>Todah again!!!
>
>Shalom v'Ahavah
>JOE.
>
>_______________________________________________
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG.
>Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1782 - Release Date: 11/11/2008 
>7:32 PM

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From long777 at att.net  Thu Nov 13 08:57:23 2008
From: long777 at att.net (Jeremy Long)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:57:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule]
Message-ID: <126518.847.qm@web180116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

JoyBeth,

It would be great to meet you all also, although we have not made a firm decision as to attending yet. We really want to but it is kind of late for us on a weeknight. It will probably be a last minute decision for us.

We are in Pearland so, were not too far from you all. Do you all attend a congregation in the area? Hopefully we get to meet soon.

Jeremy


?



________________________________
From: Joy Beth <batsimcha at mindspring.com>
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:31:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule]

Hi Jeremy,

We are planning to go to the party Sunday night, and maybe to other events if possible (but probably not the Hebrew-only class on Monday night). We can't figure out why they are starting so late.

What part of Houston are you from? We're in Clear Lake. Hope you can make it to one of the events. It would be nice to meet you (I don't think I have before, have I? :-) & I think would be good to meet Rabbi Avraham.

:-)
JoyBeth

At 07:19 AM 11/12/2008, you wrote:

I spoke to the Rabbi at Torah VaChessed in Houston yesterday and he told me the start time for the Houston engagements was 8:30 but that they were not ever on time so I should show around 9:00..haha.. I really want to go but that is a pretty late start time considering I have to work the next day and be up at 5am. I am sure it will last until midnight or so. Decisions, decisions. Anyone else on here live near Houston and planning to go? It would be great to meet someone from the dialogue at the meeting.
Anyway, time to get to work, thank you all for a great resource that we have in this forum. I dont post much but look forward to all the daily posts from you all.
?
Peace and Blessings
?
Jeremy


From: JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:00:47 AM
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule]

Shalom JoyBeth,

Rabbi Greenbaum is very much an admired and well respected all around the world.

Thank you for passing on this information.I will be tuning in as the time gap allows.

Hopefully one day this inspiring man will travel to the land down under to the wild colonial boys.

Todah again!!!

Shalom v'Ahavah
JOE.

_______________________________________________
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1782 - Release Date: 11/11/2008 7:32 PM
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From long777 at att.net  Thu Nov 13 09:19:55 2008
From: long777 at att.net (Jeremy Long)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:19:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule]
Message-ID: <350650.15059.qm@web180116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

BTW

If we can attend it will probably be the Wed. night engagement in order to hear Rabbi Greenbaum speak. Not sure if the "party" is a speaking engagement or not. Just thought I would add that.

Peace




________________________________
From: Joy Beth <batsimcha at mindspring.com>
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:31:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule]

Hi Jeremy,

We are planning to go to the party Sunday night, and maybe to other events if possible (but probably not the Hebrew-only class on Monday night). We can't figure out why they are starting so late.

What part of Houston are you from? We're in Clear Lake. Hope you can make it to one of the events. It would be nice to meet you (I don't think I have before, have I? :-) & I think would be good to meet Rabbi Avraham.

:-)
JoyBeth

At 07:19 AM 11/12/2008, you wrote:

I spoke to the Rabbi at Torah VaChessed in Houston yesterday and he told me the start time for the Houston engagements was 8:30 but that they were not ever on time so I should show around 9:00..haha.. I really want to go but that is a pretty late start time considering I have to work the next day and be up at 5am. I am sure it will last until midnight or so. Decisions, decisions. Anyone else on here live near Houston and planning to go? It would be great to meet someone from the dialogue at the meeting.
Anyway, time to get to work, thank you all for a great resource that we have in this forum. I dont post much but look forward to all the daily posts from you all.
?
Peace and Blessings
?
Jeremy


From: JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:00:47 AM
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum's Dallas speaking schedule]

Shalom JoyBeth,

Rabbi Greenbaum is very much an admired and well respected all around the world.

Thank you for passing on this information.I will be tuning in as the time gap allows.

Hopefully one day this inspiring man will travel to the land down under to the wild colonial boys.

Todah again!!!

Shalom v'Ahavah
JOE.

_______________________________________________
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1782 - Release Date: 11/11/2008 7:32 PM
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From shcole1 at cox.net  Thu Nov 13 12:52:41 2008
From: shcole1 at cox.net (Sherry Cole)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:52:41 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] Emailing: Highland Games of Louisiana, Jackson, LA
Message-ID: <000701c945c1$01e6d700$6a00a8c0@greenuptxoxqls>

Hi Hanoch,
(sorry Ross and all if this isn't exactly dealing with Biblical discussion , but since Hanoch seems to have a "pull" towards things Scottish I thought he might find this link interesting)
    Wish you could make it to the Highland Games this weekend. I'm sure you'd find some interesting tartans there.Maybe next year.
Blessings,
Sherry
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From RNDAVAR at aol.com  Thu Nov 13 22:32:01 2008
From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:32:01 EST
Subject: [Dialogue] Emailing: Highland Games of Louisiana, Jackson, LA
Message-ID: <d69.339e6f5d.364e5941@aol.com>

Sherry,
 
A few years ago I discovered that my dad was adopted and that his birth  name 
was "McDowell" and so I guess I should try and make some time this weekend  
to go to the games.
 
The connection between the Scottish people and the tribes is  obviously well 
documented, and I must admit that I get chills when I hear the  pipes:)
 
I actually want to make a tallith from the tartan of my ancient  family.  I 
just never seem to get around to it. Since many on this list  have discussed 
this in the past, here is a link to my family's tartan - 
 
_http://members.tripod.com/leomcdowell/id34.htm_ 
(http://members.tripod.com/leomcdowell/id34.htm) 
 
Ross K.  Nichols 
_www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) 


**************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & 
more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt
p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)
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From RNDAVAR at aol.com  Thu Nov 13 22:49:40 2008
From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:49:40 EST
Subject: [Dialogue] 70,000 downloads and counting
Message-ID: <cc2.33ded558.364e5d64@aol.com>

December will mark 2 years of podcasting for Roots of Faith and the  
"Synagogue without Walls". This week, according to the stats on my web site we  broke 
70,000 downloads! 
 
I am amazed at this and feel very blessed to have the opportunity to teach  
over the internet and to post these classes for anyone to listen to at their  
convenience. 
 
Thanks to Brian for making all of this possible; the web site, the podcasts  
and this list!
 
Ross K.  Nichols 
_www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) 


**************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & 
more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt
p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Fri Nov 14 01:06:04 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:06:04 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] Parashat Vayeirah : The Binding
Message-ID: <491D235C.9010505@westnet.com.au>

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From mhyde7 at tds.net  Fri Nov 14 05:04:31 2008
From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde)
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:04:31 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] The binding
Message-ID: <009401c94648$c6d5a690$0400a8c0@marvin>

Joe, 

A good article on the Binding of Isaac. Below is another article, note the
highlighted portion and compare with your article's quote 

"remember that I sacrificed my soul in front of you (for you).'" [Shabbat
89b]

Shalom,

Marvin

 

Parshas Vayera 5769 

M'lochim 2 4:1 


This week's Haftorah reveals to us an incredible dimension of faith and its
astounding result. Out of deep appreciation to a Shunamite lady's
hospitality the Prophet Elisha promised that she would bear a son. This
startling prediction raised major concern due to her elderly state coupled
with her physical inability of bearing children. Indeed, she sensed some
reservation in Elisha's words and expressed her strong desire that the child
live a full, healthy life. (see Malbim's comment to 4:14,16) Elisha
responded by repeating his promise and predicting the date of her son's
birth. His promise was fulfilled and she gave birth to a boy on the exact
date of prediction. When the boy matured, sudden tragedy befell him and he
took seriously ill and died soon after in his mother's arms. The Shunamite
lady did not despair and immediately traveled to Elisha. Upon arrival she
calmly reminded him of his promise, whereupon Elisha ordered hi s servant to
rush to the scene of her motionless child. Elisha prayed to Hashem and
warmed the boy's body and Hashem responded and returned the child to life. 

When reading these p'sukim we are overwhelmed by the Shunamite's manner in
dealing with her son's sudden passing. Scriptures record her response and
state, "She arose, placed the (dead) child on the prophet's bed, closed the
door and left." (4:21) There is no mention here of any emotional outburst,
cry of despair or feeling of grief or anguish. Scriptures continue to relate
that she calmly requested a donkey and informed her husband that she was
rushing to the prophet on a peaceful journey. Even after arriving at
Elisha's doorstep she maintained that everything at home was in order. Only
after entering his private quarters did she allude to his promise and hint
to the seriousness of her situation. 

This entire episode reveals the Shunamite's incredible strength of character
rooted in her total faith in Hashem and His prophets. She displayed an
unparalleled degree of trust and regarded physical impossibilities within
the realm of reality. Her conviction in Hashem was so strong that she
sincerely anticipated His performance of a miracle of major proportions. She
simply refused to accept that her miracle boy's life ended so soon. She
reasoned that if Hashem defied His rules of nature to grace her with a son
He could likewise defy them and return her son to life. Since Hashem
accepted Elisha's first request for a miracle Hashem would conceivably
accept Elisha's second request for another miracle. Therefore, with total
conviction she calmly awaited a nearly unprecedented experience - the
revival of her dead son. Indeed, Hashem rewarded her for this perfect faith
and she merited to witness one of Hashem's greatest revelations of all
times. 

Where did she develop such faith and conviction? Although we know that
Hashem's ability is limitless we are also aware of the improbability of His
altering His master plan for the world. The revival of the dead is an
experience reserved, for the most part, for the end of days and is not meant
to happen before then. Prior to the Shunamite's miracle world history saw
the revival of two people, our Patriarch Yitzchok during the Akeida and the
Tzorfati boy revived by the Prophet Eliyahu. (see Pirkei DR' Eliezer 31,
M'lochim 1 17:22) How could this Shunamite even dream of such supernatural
occurences, let alone believe that they would happen to her son? 

One could suggest that she drew her strength from a lesson in this week's
sedra. We read this week about three common travelers who informed our
Patriarch Avrohom that his wife, Sora would bear a son. Sora, a ninety year
old barren lady whose husband was also quite elderly, didn't place much
value on this prediction. In fact, she found the travelers' words somewhat
amusing and chuckled at the notion of her bearing a child at her ripe age.
Hashem reprimanded her and said, "Why did Sora laugh saying, 'Can I give
birth when I am so aged?'" Hashem continued and said, "Is anything out of
Hashem's reach?" (Breishis 18:14) We are somewhat puzzled by this dialogue.
Sora's response merely reflected the true improbability of child bearing at
her ripe age. Why should she, physically incapable of giving birth and well
past that stage, entertain the bizarre phenomena of returning to her youth?
Nachmanides places this in perspective and reminds us that this prediction
came from three a ngels disguised as ordinary Arabs. Our Matriarch Sora was
totally unaware of their true identity and seemingly responded in a most
appropriate way. She certainly appreciated their blessing but had long given
up on considering such ridiculous things. Nachmanides questions why then did
Hashem fault and reprimand her for a natural and logical response? 

He answers that Sora's faith in Hashem should have exceeded such physical
restrictions. With her level of knowledge she should have entertained the
possibility of the nearly impossible. She should have believed that such
miracles could actually happen or respond, at least, by wishing that Hashem
willed them to be so. Sora's profound understanding of Hashem's ways should
have left room in her mind for even the most remote of suggestions. She
certainly realized that Hashem could do anything and should have eagerly
entertained the fulfillment of this blessing. (Nachmanides to Breishis
18:15) 

This interpretation, apparently, understands that Sora should have valued
the blessing of common ordinary travelers. Indeed, the Sages teach us never
to take anyone's blessing or curse lightly because of their possible degree
of truth. (Mesichta Baba Kamma 93a) In this vein, even the seemingly
ridiculous words of ordinary Arabs has merit. Who knows if their words were
not a reflection of a miraculous development in the near future. Although it
was highly improbable for this to be so, the possibility did exist and
should not have been overlooked. Maybe these travelers were angels in
disguise delivering a message from Above! Our Matriarch Sora's chuckle
reflected that child bearing for her was outside of reality. Hashem
reprimanded her and reminded her that nothing is ever outside of reality. If
she had considered things from Hashem's perspective she would have concluded
that nothing is beyond His capability or difficult to bring about. 

Sora should have hearkened to the definitive tone of the travelers'
prediction. As remote as it seemed the Arab travelers may have been sending
her a message. After all, Sora was privileged to witness Hashem's
involvement in every step of her life. Hashem therefore expected her never
to limit His degree of involvement and respond favorably to this most remote
prediction or blessing and contemplate its possible reality. 

One could suggest that the Shunamite lady thoroughly absorbed this lesson
and applied it to her own predicament. She, in fact, already merited to
witness a miracle of major proportions. She was also incapable of child
bearing and well on in her years before she miraculously conceived her son.
Once she experienced this, she thoroughly researched Hashem's guidelines for
miracles and concluded that nothing was beyond reality. She totally
identified with this principle and continuously viewed her son's existence
in this light. When her sudden tragedy occurred she saw in it the perfect
opportunity to practice her belief. Drawing on her inner principles of faith
she immediately engaged them into action. She fully believed that her son's
death was no cause for despair because Hashem could easily restore him if He
so willed. Consequently, she immediate traveled to Elisha and elicited him
to daven for a miracle. Her unwavering faith served her well and in its
merit Hashem responde d to Elisha's prayers and restored her son to life. 

We consistently daven to Hashem to end our troubles and bring us the long
awaited Messianic era. For many people it is difficult to conceptualize or
fathom how this phenomena will come about. At present, there are so many
obstacles in the way that any stage of redemption will require unprecedented
miracles. In the recent tragic American experience Hashem displayed untold
levels of compassion. Close to one thousand souls were spared from a
horrifying death due to unexpected Divine intervention. For those fortunate
people Hashem's perfectly timed miracles will undoubtedly remind them of His
constant involvement in their lives. But, even we who are privileged to
learn of these miracles can draw inspiration from them. Let us daven to
Hashem that as He has begun showing us His open hand He should continue
doing so until the entire world recognizes His sovereignty and warm
relationship with His devout children. 

    


Haftorah, Copyright C 2008 by Rabbi Dovid Siegel and Torah.org. The author
is Rosh Kollel of Kollel Toras Chaim of Kiryat Sefer, Israel. 

 	 
			

 

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From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com  Fri Nov 14 09:16:17 2008
From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe)
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:16:17 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi Greenbaum live this Sunday morning
Message-ID: <200811141516.mAEFGDUB003574@mail382c25.carrierzone.com>

Friends:

As you know, Rabbi Greenbaum of Jerusalem, whose live classes some of 
us join and listen to on Sunday mornings, is on tour in North America 
to raise awareness and funds.  He was not expected to be able to hold 
class till back home.  However, due to the tireless electronic 
efforts of Brian, Rabbi Greenbaum will be holding classes at the 
usual times at the usual site below.   We are living in special times 
spoken of by the Prophets and it is a rare opportunity to listen to a 
rabbi who knows and cares about Ephraim and all who seek the God of 
Abraham. Hope to see you all in class. This is what he says:

Steve
                                                         ***********************************
BS"D Houston Texas

Shalom friends

This is to let you know that I will be giving a live Internet audio 
class this Sunday November 16 at 18:00 Israel time, 16:00 British 
time, N. America EST 11:00 a.m.,  10am CST and PST 08:00 a.m.

You can log in to the class at http://www.azamra.org/study.shtml

Shabbat Shalom

Avraham
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sat Nov 15 06:09:53 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:09:53 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] The binding]
Message-ID: <491EBC11.1060200@westnet.com.au>

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Subject: [Dialogue] The binding
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:04:31 -0500
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sat Nov 15 16:56:35 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 08:56:35 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] The forgotten refugees.
Message-ID: <491F53A3.7060405@westnet.com.au>

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From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com  Sat Nov 15 21:16:32 2008
From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe)
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:16:32 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] Winds of change
Message-ID: <200811160316.mAG3GWGC023912@mail383c25.carrierzone.com>

Friends,

Just want to let you know what is what in my neck of the woods, or 
what is left of them. As you know fires have been raging today in 
Southern California where we live.  In fact, we live very close to 
two of the fires. When we went to our synagogue this morning, we saw 
the billowing smoke just starting up in the distance over Yorba 
Linda. As the service went on, we saw the skies darkened by westward 
moving smoke and the sun becoming  a dull orange disc. News came, 
that some of our member's houses may be in the path of the fire if 
the wind does not change.  Relatives of two members came during 
services and took them home to be near their homes in Yorba Linda.
In the mean time, the second fire in Brea started and progressed 
southward. We live just south of Brea and west of Yorba Linda. So far 
we are OK, and there is no immediate danger of the fire reaching us, 
unless the winds start up again.  The hot Santa Ana winds have abated 
now, baruch HaShem.

Steve



From carlson_john at bellsouth.net  Sat Nov 15 21:22:16 2008
From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 03:22:16 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] Winds of change
Message-ID: <1954523607-1226805814-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-845194247-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Hey Steve,

Didn't know you were that close to them.  We'll be praying for y'all.

John C.

------Original Message------
From: Steve Mathe
Sender: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
To: Dialogue
ReplyTo: Dialogue
Sent: Nov 15, 2008 9:16 PM
Subject: [Dialogue] Winds of change

Friends,

Just want to let you know what is what in my neck of the woods, or 
what is left of them. As you know fires have been raging today in 
Southern California where we live.  In fact, we live very close to 
two of the fires. When we went to our synagogue this morning, we saw 
the billowing smoke just starting up in the distance over Yorba 
Linda. As the service went on, we saw the skies darkened by westward 
moving smoke and the sun becoming  a dull orange disc. News came, 
that some of our member's houses may be in the path of the fire if 
the wind does not change.  Relatives of two members came during 
services and took them home to be near their homes in Yorba Linda.
In the mean time, the second fire in Brea started and progressed 
southward. We live just south of Brea and west of Yorba Linda. So far 
we are OK, and there is no immediate danger of the fire reaching us, 
unless the winds start up again.  The hot Santa Ana winds have abated 
now, baruch HaShem.

Steve

_______________________________________________


Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

From jid at westnet.com.au  Sun Nov 16 05:43:41 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:43:41 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Winds of change]
Message-ID: <4920076D.5090907@westnet.com.au>

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Subject: [Dialogue] Winds of change
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:16:32 -0800
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sun Nov 16 06:09:16 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:09:16 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] Obama Favors Saudi Initiative.
Message-ID: <49200D6C.5090608@westnet.com.au>

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sun Nov 16 06:13:48 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:13:48 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] RABBI MEIR KAHANE.
Message-ID: <49200E7C.6070009@westnet.com.au>

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From bkgivin at charter.net  Sun Nov 16 16:28:43 2008
From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:28:43 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] Winds of change
In-Reply-To: <1954523607-1226805814-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-845194247-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1954523607-1226805814-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-845194247-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <ABA6318B914D45238AC5E51992130E6C@bettylaptop>

Steve, I have been off list for such a long time due to personal and work
related things that I see I have a lot of catching up to do.

I knew about the fires of course, but was not aware that you were that close
either.

My thoughts and prayers have been with you, especially over the past few
days...now that I am more aware of how this situation could affect you and
the members of your congregation specifically, I will be able to pray with
more direction.

Thanks so much for letting us know.

May HaShem protect and give you and all affected and give you strength,

Love and Blessings,

Betty/Elisheva


-----Original Message-----
From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of
carlson_john at bellsouth.net
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:22 PM
To: Dialogue
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Winds of change

Hey Steve,

Didn't know you were that close to them.  We'll be praying for y'all.

John C.

------Original Message------
From: Steve Mathe
Sender: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
To: Dialogue
ReplyTo: Dialogue
Sent: Nov 15, 2008 9:16 PM
Subject: [Dialogue] Winds of change

Friends,

Just want to let you know what is what in my neck of the woods, or 
what is left of them. As you know fires have been raging today in 
Southern California where we live.  In fact, we live very close to 
two of the fires. When we went to our synagogue this morning, we saw 
the billowing smoke just starting up in the distance over Yorba 
Linda. As the service went on, we saw the skies darkened by westward 
moving smoke and the sun becoming  a dull orange disc. News came, 
that some of our member's houses may be in the path of the fire if 
the wind does not change.  Relatives of two members came during 
services and took them home to be near their homes in Yorba Linda.
In the mean time, the second fire in Brea started and progressed 
southward. We live just south of Brea and west of Yorba Linda. So far 
we are OK, and there is no immediate danger of the fire reaching us, 
unless the winds start up again.  The hot Santa Ana winds have abated 
now, baruch HaShem.

Steve

_______________________________________________


Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T



From bkgivin at charter.net  Sun Nov 16 16:39:44 2008
From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:39:44 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] RABBI MEIR KAHANE.
In-Reply-To: <49200E7C.6070009@westnet.com.au>
References: <49200E7C.6070009@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <8B1D43B719B547E1A8BF85A77E6E7D7B@bettylaptop>

Yes, Hanoch!  I know how much you loved and admired your teacher.  How
thoughtful of you, Joe to post this at this time and to remember  our
brother, Hanoch.

 

Roger and I along with several others on our list were able to hear Rabbi
Kahane  back in 1990 when he spoke at the first B'Nei Noach Conference in
Dallas.  He was on the program with the great Shlomo Carlbach, so we had
quite a blessing that night!

 

Hope you trip is going well and that you and Kyra are enjoying your time
together!

 

Love and Blessings and Shavuah tov,

 

Betty/Elisheva

 

  _____  

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of JOE INDOMENICO
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:14 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: [Dialogue] RABBI MEIR KAHANE.

 

Shalom Chaverim,

thinking and praying for you Hanoch.



Shalom v'Ahavah,
JOE.

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From bkgivin at charter.net  Sun Nov 16 16:43:06 2008
From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:43:06 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] 70,000 downloads and counting
In-Reply-To: <cc2.33ded558.364e5d64@aol.com>
References: <cc2.33ded558.364e5d64@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6F3F5211DBCD43268F6BA9BD2DC11C90@bettylaptop>

Yes, thanks to Brian for all he does, Ross; and thanks also for you for
being willing to step into this role that HaShem had been preparing you for!
We are all blessed to be a part of it all!

 

Baruch HaShem!

 

Betty/Elisheva

 

  _____  

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of RNDAVAR at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:50 PM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: [Dialogue] 70,000 downloads and counting

 

December will mark 2 years of podcasting for Roots of Faith and the
"Synagogue without Walls". This week, according to the stats on my web site
we broke 70,000 downloads! 

 

I am amazed at this and feel very blessed to have the opportunity to teach
over the internet and to post these classes for anyone to listen to at their
convenience. 

 

Thanks to Brian for making all of this possible; the web site, the podcasts
and this list!

 

Ross K. Nichols 
www.RootsofFaith.org <http://www.rootsoffaith.org/> 





  _____  

Get
<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt
p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001>  the
Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sun Nov 16 18:40:01 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:40:01 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] RABBI MEIR KAHANE.]
Message-ID: <4920BD61.8000007@westnet.com.au>

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Subject: RE: [Dialogue] RABBI MEIR KAHANE.
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From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com  Mon Nov 17 01:06:03 2008
From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:06:03 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] sign petition to dig for the Ark
Message-ID: <200811170706.mAH761wQ023472@mail384c25.carrierzone.com>

Hi, Gang,

As you may know, there is a tradition in Ireland that Jeremiah ended 
up in Ireland with the Ark, David's harp, one or two of King 
Zedekiah's daughters and his scribe Baruch.
Wether you believe it or not, be it true or not, it would be nice if 
the Minister of Environment in Ireland would permit an archeological 
dig at the Tara site to look for the Ark.

We and the Minister have nothing to lose and everything to gain by 
such a dig.  Please read up on it at this site and sign the petition 
and add your remarks to the for letter.

http://100777.com/ark


Gratefully,

Steve



From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com  Mon Nov 17 02:45:10 2008
From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:45:10 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] Re: Winds of change
Message-ID: <200811170845.mAH8j5u5026051@mail385c25.carrierzone.com>

Hi, Gang,

Thank you for all your prayers.  We are OK, the fire has not come 
close to us, though we live about three miles from one of them. The 
winds have subsided, and the fire fighters have a handle on putting 
out the fires.

The smoke is very low, now that it is night time. Thanks be to God, we are OK.

Steve
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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 17 06:53:49 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:53:49 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Re: Winds of change
In-Reply-To: <200811170845.mAH8j5u5026051@mail385c25.carrierzone.com>
References: <200811170845.mAH8j5u5026051@mail385c25.carrierzone.com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS3A90A5C6C9FEA667524EABA130@phx.gbl>

BARUCH HASHEM!!!!  Am so very thankful to hear this good report!  

Will continue praying,

Pat


From: Steve Mathe 
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 3:45 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] Re: Winds of change


Hi, Gang,

Thank you for all your prayers.  We are OK, the fire has not come close to us, though we live about three miles from one of them. The winds have subsided, and the fire fighters have a handle on putting out the fires.  

The smoke is very low, now that it is night time. Thanks be to God, we are OK. 

Steve  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 17 08:24:07 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:24:07 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] sign petition to dig for the Ark
In-Reply-To: <200811170706.mAH761wQ023472@mail384c25.carrierzone.com>
References: <200811170706.mAH761wQ023472@mail384c25.carrierzone.com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS6AFB8357E8DBA94949A5FBA130@phx.gbl>

Done!  Thank you, Steve!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Mathe" <eliasaph at uniteourheart.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:06 AM
To: <dialogue at rootsoffaith.org>
Subject: [Dialogue] sign petition to dig for the Ark

> Hi, Gang,
> 
> As you may know, there is a tradition in Ireland that Jeremiah ended 
> up in Ireland with the Ark, David's harp, one or two of King 
> Zedekiah's daughters and his scribe Baruch.
> Wether you believe it or not, be it true or not, it would be nice if 
> the Minister of Environment in Ireland would permit an archeological 
> dig at the Tara site to look for the Ark.
> 
> We and the Minister have nothing to lose and everything to gain by 
> such a dig.  Please read up on it at this site and sign the petition 
> and add your remarks to the for letter.
> 
> http://100777.com/ark
> 
> 
> Gratefully,
> 
> Steve
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 


From bkgivin at charter.net  Mon Nov 17 12:12:51 2008
From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:12:51 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] Re: Winds of change
In-Reply-To: <BLU125-DS3A90A5C6C9FEA667524EABA130@phx.gbl>
References: <200811170845.mAH8j5u5026051@mail385c25.carrierzone.com>
	<BLU125-DS3A90A5C6C9FEA667524EABA130@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1C6FE287A5CD48DC96229D756EB831BA@bettylaptop>

Yes, Baruch HaShem!  Thanks for letting us know this good news, Steve.

 

Betty/Elisheva

 

  _____  

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Robbins
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:54 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Re: Winds of change

 

BARUCH HASHEM!!!!  Am so very thankful to hear this good report!  

 

Will continue praying,

 

Pat

 

From: Steve <mailto:eliasaph at uniteourheart.com>  Mathe 

Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 3:45 AM

To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 

Subject: [Dialogue] Re: Winds of change

 

Hi, Gang,

Thank you for all your prayers.  We are OK, the fire has not come close to
us, though we live about three miles from one of them. The winds have
subsided, and the fire fighters have a handle on putting out the fires.  

The smoke is very low, now that it is night time. Thanks be to God, we are
OK. 

Steve  

  _____  

_______________________________________________

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From ptyler at aac-usa.com  Tue Nov 18 09:10:21 2008
From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty )
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:10:21 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal
Message-ID: <01e501c9498f$c7e51580$57af4080$@com>

Times Online Logo 222 x 25

>From The Sunday Times

November 16, 2008


Barack Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal


Uzi Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv and Sarah Baxter 

 

Barack Obama is to pursue an ambitious peace plan in the Middle East
involving the recognition of Israel by the Arab world in exchange for its
withdrawal to pre-1967 borders, according to sources close to America's
president-elect. 

Obama intends to throw his support behind a 2002 Saudi peace initiative
endorsed by the Arab League and backed by Tzipi Livni, the Israeli foreign
minister and leader of the ruling Kadima party. 

The proposal gives Israel an effective veto on the return of Arab refugees
expelled in 1948 while requiring it to restore the Golan Heights to Syria
and allow the Palestinians to establish a state capital in east Jerusalem. 

On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately
it would be "crazy" for Israel to refuse a deal that could "give them peace
with the Muslim world", according to a senior Obama adviser. 

The Arab peace plan received a boost last week when President Shimon Peres,
a Nobel peace laureate and leading Israeli dove, commended the initiative at
a Saudi-sponsored United Nations conference in New York. 

Peres was loudly applauded for telling King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who
was behind the original initiative: "I wish that your voice will become the
prevailing voice of the whole region, of all people." 

A bipartisan group of senior foreign policy advisers urged Obama to give the
Arab plan top priority immediately after his election victory. They included
Lee Hamilton, the former co-chairman of the Iraq Study Group, and Zbigniew
Brzezinski, a Democrat former national security adviser. Brzezinski will
give an address tomorrow at Chatham House, the international relations think
tank, in London. 

Brent Scowcroft, a Republican former national security adviser, joined in
the appeal. He said last week that the Middle East was the most troublesome
area in the world and that an early start to the Palestinian peace process
was "a way to psychologically change the mood of the region". 

Advisers believe the diplomatic climate favours a deal as Arab League
countries are under pressure from radical Islamic movements and a
potentially nuclear Iran. Polls show that Palestinians and Israelis are in a
mood to compromise. 

The advisers have told Obama he should lose no time in pursuing the policy
in the first six to 12 months in office while he enjoys maximum goodwill. 

Obama is also looking to break a diplomatic deadlock over Iran's pursuit of
nuclear weapons technology. A possible way forward, suggested last spring by
Dennis Ross, a senior Obama adviser and former Middle East envoy, would be
to persuade Russia to join in tough economic sanctions against Iran by
offering to modify the US plan for a "missile shield" in eastern Europe. 

President Dmitry Medvedev signalled that Russia could cancel a tit-for-tat
deployment of missiles close to the Polish border if America gave up its
proposed missile defences in Poland and the Czech Republic. 

Ross argued in a paper on How to Talk to Iran that "if the Iranian threat
goes away, so does the principal need to deploy these [antimissile] forces.
[Vladimir] Putin [the Russian prime minister] has made this such a symbolic
issue that this trade-off could be portrayed as a great victory for him". 

Ross and Daniel Kurtzer, a former American ambassador to Israel, accompanied
Obama on a visit to Israel last July. They also travelled to Ramallah, where
Obama questioned Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian leader, about the prospects
for the Arab plan. 

According to a Washington source Obama told Abbas: "The Israelis would be
crazy not to accept this initiative. It would give them peace with the
Muslim world from Indonesia to Morocco." 

Kurtzer submitted a paper to Obama on the question before this month's
presidential elections. He argued that trying to reach bilateral peace
agreements between Israel and individual countries in the Middle East, was a
recipe for failure as the record of Bill Clinton and George W Bush showed.
In contrast, the broader Arab plan "had a lot of appeal". A leading
Democratic expert on the Middle East said: "There's not a lot of meat on the
bones yet, but it offers recognition of Israel across the Arab world." 

Livni, the leader of Kadima, which favours the plan, is the front-runner in
Israeli elections due in February. Her rival, Benjamin Netanyahu, the leader
of Likud, is adamantly against withdrawing to borders that predate the Six
Day war in 1967. 

Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, last week expressed his support for
Israel's withdrawal from the West Bank Golan and east Jerusalem. 

 

Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd.

This service is provided on Times Newspapers'
<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/tools_and_services/services/terms_and_cond
itions/> standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our
<http://www.nidp.com> Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce
material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click
<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/tools_and_services/services/syndication/>
here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group.
News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding
company for the News International group and is registered in England No
81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.

 

 

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 18 09:27:46 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:27:46 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal
In-Reply-To: <01e501c9498f$c7e51580$57af4080$@com>
References: <01e501c9498f$c7e51580$57af4080$@com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS48B92F997F7E5C298E865BA120@phx.gbl>

SO TERRIFIC TO HEAR FROM YOU, PATTY!!!  

It was wonderful to see your name pop up this morning.  Please keep them coming!!!!!

Pat


From: Patty 
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:10 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal




>From The Sunday Times

November 16, 2008

Barack Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal
Uzi Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv and Sarah Baxter 

 

Barack Obama is to pursue an ambitious peace plan in the Middle East involving the recognition of Israel by the Arab world in exchange for its withdrawal to pre-1967 borders, according to sources close to America's president-elect. 

Obama intends to throw his support behind a 2002 Saudi peace initiative endorsed by the Arab League and backed by Tzipi Livni, the Israeli foreign minister and leader of the ruling Kadima party. 

The proposal gives Israel an effective veto on the return of Arab refugees expelled in 1948 while requiring it to restore the Golan Heights to Syria and allow the Palestinians to establish a state capital in east Jerusalem. 

On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately it would be "crazy" for Israel to refuse a deal that could "give them peace with the Muslim world", according to a senior Obama adviser. 

The Arab peace plan received a boost last week when President Shimon Peres, a Nobel peace laureate and leading Israeli dove, commended the initiative at a Saudi-sponsored United Nations conference in New York. 

Peres was loudly applauded for telling King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who was behind the original initiative: "I wish that your voice will become the prevailing voice of the whole region, of all people." 

A bipartisan group of senior foreign policy advisers urged Obama to give the Arab plan top priority immediately after his election victory. They included Lee Hamilton, the former co-chairman of the Iraq Study Group, and Zbigniew Brzezinski, a Democrat former national security adviser. Brzezinski will give an address tomorrow at Chatham House, the international relations think tank, in London. 

Brent Scowcroft, a Republican former national security adviser, joined in the appeal. He said last week that the Middle East was the most troublesome area in the world and that an early start to the Palestinian peace process was "a way to psychologically change the mood of the region". 

Advisers believe the diplomatic climate favours a deal as Arab League countries are under pressure from radical Islamic movements and a potentially nuclear Iran. Polls show that Palestinians and Israelis are in a mood to compromise. 

The advisers have told Obama he should lose no time in pursuing the policy in the first six to 12 months in office while he enjoys maximum goodwill. 

Obama is also looking to break a diplomatic deadlock over Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons technology. A possible way forward, suggested last spring by Dennis Ross, a senior Obama adviser and former Middle East envoy, would be to persuade Russia to join in tough economic sanctions against Iran by offering to modify the US plan for a "missile shield" in eastern Europe. 

President Dmitry Medvedev signalled that Russia could cancel a tit-for-tat deployment of missiles close to the Polish border if America gave up its proposed missile defences in Poland and the Czech Republic. 

Ross argued in a paper on How to Talk to Iran that "if the Iranian threat goes away, so does the principal need to deploy these [antimissile] forces. [Vladimir] Putin [the Russian prime minister] has made this such a symbolic issue that this trade-off could be portrayed as a great victory for him". 

Ross and Daniel Kurtzer, a former American ambassador to Israel, accompanied Obama on a visit to Israel last July. They also travelled to Ramallah, where Obama questioned Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian leader, about the prospects for the Arab plan. 

According to a Washington source Obama told Abbas: "The Israelis would be crazy not to accept this initiative. It would give them peace with the Muslim world from Indonesia to Morocco." 

Kurtzer submitted a paper to Obama on the question before this month's presidential elections. He argued that trying to reach bilateral peace agreements between Israel and individual countries in the Middle East, was a recipe for failure as the record of Bill Clinton and George W Bush showed. In contrast, the broader Arab plan "had a lot of appeal". A leading Democratic expert on the Middle East said: "There's not a lot of meat on the bones yet, but it offers recognition of Israel across the Arab world." 

Livni, the leader of Kadima, which favours the plan, is the front-runner in Israeli elections due in February. Her rival, Benjamin Netanyahu, the leader of Likud, is adamantly against withdrawing to borders that predate the Six Day war in 1967. 

Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, last week expressed his support for Israel's withdrawal from the West Bank Golan and east Jerusalem. 

 

Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd.

This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group. News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding company for the News International group and is registered in England No 81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.

 

 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
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From ptyler at aac-usa.com  Tue Nov 18 09:38:14 2008
From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty )
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:38:14 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal
In-Reply-To: <BLU125-DS48B92F997F7E5C298E865BA120@phx.gbl>
References: <01e501c9498f$c7e51580$57af4080$@com>
	<BLU125-DS48B92F997F7E5C298E865BA120@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <01f701c94993$ad544110$07fcc330$@com>

Hi Pat, how are you? Thanks for the welcome back, I'll try to behave J

 

Patty

 

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Robbins
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:28 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders
deal

 

SO TERRIFIC TO HEAR FROM YOU, PATTY!!!  

 

It was wonderful to see your name pop up this morning.  Please keep them
coming!!!!!

 

Pat

 

From: Patty  <mailto:ptyler at aac-usa.com> 

Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:10 AM

To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 

Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal

 

Times Online Logo 222 x 25

>From The Sunday Times

November 16, 2008


Barack Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal


Uzi Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv and Sarah Baxter 

 

Barack Obama is to pursue an ambitious peace plan in the Middle East
involving the recognition of Israel by the Arab world in exchange for its
withdrawal to pre-1967 borders, according to sources close to America's
president-elect. 

Obama intends to throw his support behind a 2002 Saudi peace initiative
endorsed by the Arab League and backed by Tzipi Livni, the Israeli foreign
minister and leader of the ruling Kadima party. 

The proposal gives Israel an effective veto on the return of Arab refugees
expelled in 1948 while requiring it to restore the Golan Heights to Syria
and allow the Palestinians to establish a state capital in east Jerusalem. 

On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately
it would be "crazy" for Israel to refuse a deal that could "give them peace
with the Muslim world", according to a senior Obama adviser. 

The Arab peace plan received a boost last week when President Shimon Peres,
a Nobel peace laureate and leading Israeli dove, commended the initiative at
a Saudi-sponsored United Nations conference in New York. 

Peres was loudly applauded for telling King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who
was behind the original initiative: "I wish that your voice will become the
prevailing voice of the whole region, of all people." 

A bipartisan group of senior foreign policy advisers urged Obama to give the
Arab plan top priority immediately after his election victory. They included
Lee Hamilton, the former co-chairman of the Iraq Study Group, and Zbigniew
Brzezinski, a Democrat former national security adviser. Brzezinski will
give an address tomorrow at Chatham House, the international relations think
tank, in London. 

Brent Scowcroft, a Republican former national security adviser, joined in
the appeal. He said last week that the Middle East was the most troublesome
area in the world and that an early start to the Palestinian peace process
was "a way to psychologically change the mood of the region". 

Advisers believe the diplomatic climate favours a deal as Arab League
countries are under pressure from radical Islamic movements and a
potentially nuclear Iran. Polls show that Palestinians and Israelis are in a
mood to compromise. 

The advisers have told Obama he should lose no time in pursuing the policy
in the first six to 12 months in office while he enjoys maximum goodwill. 

Obama is also looking to break a diplomatic deadlock over Iran's pursuit of
nuclear weapons technology. A possible way forward, suggested last spring by
Dennis Ross, a senior Obama adviser and former Middle East envoy, would be
to persuade Russia to join in tough economic sanctions against Iran by
offering to modify the US plan for a "missile shield" in eastern Europe. 

President Dmitry Medvedev signalled that Russia could cancel a tit-for-tat
deployment of missiles close to the Polish border if America gave up its
proposed missile defences in Poland and the Czech Republic. 

Ross argued in a paper on How to Talk to Iran that "if the Iranian threat
goes away, so does the principal need to deploy these [antimissile] forces.
[Vladimir] Putin [the Russian prime minister] has made this such a symbolic
issue that this trade-off could be portrayed as a great victory for him". 

Ross and Daniel Kurtzer, a former American ambassador to Israel, accompanied
Obama on a visit to Israel last July. They also travelled to Ramallah, where
Obama questioned Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian leader, about the prospects
for the Arab plan. 

According to a Washington source Obama told Abbas: "The Israelis would be
crazy not to accept this initiative. It would give them peace with the
Muslim world from Indonesia to Morocco." 

Kurtzer submitted a paper to Obama on the question before this month's
presidential elections. He argued that trying to reach bilateral peace
agreements between Israel and individual countries in the Middle East, was a
recipe for failure as the record of Bill Clinton and George W Bush showed.
In contrast, the broader Arab plan "had a lot of appeal". A leading
Democratic expert on the Middle East said: "There's not a lot of meat on the
bones yet, but it offers recognition of Israel across the Arab world." 

Livni, the leader of Kadima, which favours the plan, is the front-runner in
Israeli elections due in February. Her rival, Benjamin Netanyahu, the leader
of Likud, is adamantly against withdrawing to borders that predate the Six
Day war in 1967. 

Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, last week expressed his support for
Israel's withdrawal from the West Bank Golan and east Jerusalem. 

 

Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd.

This service is provided on Times Newspapers'
<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/tools_and_services/services/terms_and_cond
itions/> standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our
<http://www.nidp.com> Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce
material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click
<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/tools_and_services/services/syndication/>
here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group.
News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding
company for the News International group and is registered in England No
81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.

 

 

  _____  

_______________________________________________

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 18 09:47:27 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:47:27 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal
In-Reply-To: <01e501c9498f$c7e51580$57af4080$@com><BLU125-DS48B92F997F7E5C298E865BA120@phx.gbl>
	<01f701c94993$ad544110$07fcc330$@com>
References: <01e501c9498f$c7e51580$57af4080$@com><BLU125-DS48B92F997F7E5C298E865BA120@phx.gbl>
	<01f701c94993$ad544110$07fcc330$@com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS5FA3460765AF2B4E4542DBA120@phx.gbl>

Not you, dear one, MEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!  I was looking up Scriptures and quoting before thinking of how they would come across.  Please forgive me for that. 

I'm so happy to see and hear from you!

Pat  


From: Patty 
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:38 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: RE: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal


Hi Pat, how are you? Thanks for the welcome back, I'll try to behave J

 

Patty

 

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Robbins
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:28 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal

 

SO TERRIFIC TO HEAR FROM YOU, PATTY!!!  

 

It was wonderful to see your name pop up this morning.  Please keep them coming!!!!!

 

Pat

 

From: Patty 

Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:10 AM

To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 

Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal

 



>From The Sunday Times

November 16, 2008

Barack Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal
Uzi Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv and Sarah Baxter 

 

Barack Obama is to pursue an ambitious peace plan in the Middle East involving the recognition of Israel by the Arab world in exchange for its withdrawal to pre-1967 borders, according to sources close to America's president-elect. 

Obama intends to throw his support behind a 2002 Saudi peace initiative endorsed by the Arab League and backed by Tzipi Livni, the Israeli foreign minister and leader of the ruling Kadima party. 

The proposal gives Israel an effective veto on the return of Arab refugees expelled in 1948 while requiring it to restore the Golan Heights to Syria and allow the Palestinians to establish a state capital in east Jerusalem. 

On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately it would be "crazy" for Israel to refuse a deal that could "give them peace with the Muslim world", according to a senior Obama adviser. 

The Arab peace plan received a boost last week when President Shimon Peres, a Nobel peace laureate and leading Israeli dove, commended the initiative at a Saudi-sponsored United Nations conference in New York. 

Peres was loudly applauded for telling King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who was behind the original initiative: "I wish that your voice will become the prevailing voice of the whole region, of all people." 

A bipartisan group of senior foreign policy advisers urged Obama to give the Arab plan top priority immediately after his election victory. They included Lee Hamilton, the former co-chairman of the Iraq Study Group, and Zbigniew Brzezinski, a Democrat former national security adviser. Brzezinski will give an address tomorrow at Chatham House, the international relations think tank, in London. 

Brent Scowcroft, a Republican former national security adviser, joined in the appeal. He said last week that the Middle East was the most troublesome area in the world and that an early start to the Palestinian peace process was "a way to psychologically change the mood of the region". 

Advisers believe the diplomatic climate favours a deal as Arab League countries are under pressure from radical Islamic movements and a potentially nuclear Iran. Polls show that Palestinians and Israelis are in a mood to compromise. 

The advisers have told Obama he should lose no time in pursuing the policy in the first six to 12 months in office while he enjoys maximum goodwill. 

Obama is also looking to break a diplomatic deadlock over Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons technology. A possible way forward, suggested last spring by Dennis Ross, a senior Obama adviser and former Middle East envoy, would be to persuade Russia to join in tough economic sanctions against Iran by offering to modify the US plan for a "missile shield" in eastern Europe. 

President Dmitry Medvedev signalled that Russia could cancel a tit-for-tat deployment of missiles close to the Polish border if America gave up its proposed missile defences in Poland and the Czech Republic. 

Ross argued in a paper on How to Talk to Iran that "if the Iranian threat goes away, so does the principal need to deploy these [antimissile] forces. [Vladimir] Putin [the Russian prime minister] has made this such a symbolic issue that this trade-off could be portrayed as a great victory for him". 

Ross and Daniel Kurtzer, a former American ambassador to Israel, accompanied Obama on a visit to Israel last July. They also travelled to Ramallah, where Obama questioned Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian leader, about the prospects for the Arab plan. 

According to a Washington source Obama told Abbas: "The Israelis would be crazy not to accept this initiative. It would give them peace with the Muslim world from Indonesia to Morocco." 

Kurtzer submitted a paper to Obama on the question before this month's presidential elections. He argued that trying to reach bilateral peace agreements between Israel and individual countries in the Middle East, was a recipe for failure as the record of Bill Clinton and George W Bush showed. In contrast, the broader Arab plan "had a lot of appeal". A leading Democratic expert on the Middle East said: "There's not a lot of meat on the bones yet, but it offers recognition of Israel across the Arab world." 

Livni, the leader of Kadima, which favours the plan, is the front-runner in Israeli elections due in February. Her rival, Benjamin Netanyahu, the leader of Likud, is adamantly against withdrawing to borders that predate the Six Day war in 1967. 

Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, last week expressed his support for Israel's withdrawal from the West Bank Golan and east Jerusalem. 

 

Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd.

This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group. News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding company for the News International group and is registered in England No 81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.

 

 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From ptyler at aac-usa.com  Tue Nov 18 09:51:45 2008
From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty )
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:51:45 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal
In-Reply-To: <BLU125-DS5FA3460765AF2B4E4542DBA120@phx.gbl>
References: <01e501c9498f$c7e51580$57af4080$@com><BLU125-DS48B92F997F7E5C298E865BA120@phx.gbl>	<01f701c94993$ad544110$07fcc330$@com>
	<BLU125-DS5FA3460765AF2B4E4542DBA120@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <020901c94995$9083eed0$b18bcc70$@com>

Really? I never thought that about you for a minute!

 

Happy to see and hear from you too!!

 

Patty

 

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Robbins
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:47 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders
deal

 

Not you, dear one, MEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!  I was looking up Scriptures and
quoting before thinking of how they would come across.  Please forgive me
for that. 

 

I'm so happy to see and hear from you!

 

Pat  

 

From: Patty  <mailto:ptyler at aac-usa.com> 

Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:38 AM

To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 

Subject: RE: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders
deal

 

Hi Pat, how are you? Thanks for the welcome back, I'll try to behave J

 

Patty

 

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Robbins
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:28 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders
deal

 

SO TERRIFIC TO HEAR FROM YOU, PATTY!!!  

 

It was wonderful to see your name pop up this morning.  Please keep them
coming!!!!!

 

Pat

 

From: Patty  <mailto:ptyler at aac-usa.com> 

Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:10 AM

To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 

Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal

 

Times Online Logo 222 x 25

>From The Sunday Times

November 16, 2008


Barack Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal


Uzi Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv and Sarah Baxter 

 

Barack Obama is to pursue an ambitious peace plan in the Middle East
involving the recognition of Israel by the Arab world in exchange for its
withdrawal to pre-1967 borders, according to sources close to America's
president-elect. 

Obama intends to throw his support behind a 2002 Saudi peace initiative
endorsed by the Arab League and backed by Tzipi Livni, the Israeli foreign
minister and leader of the ruling Kadima party. 

The proposal gives Israel an effective veto on the return of Arab refugees
expelled in 1948 while requiring it to restore the Golan Heights to Syria
and allow the Palestinians to establish a state capital in east Jerusalem. 

On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately
it would be "crazy" for Israel to refuse a deal that could "give them peace
with the Muslim world", according to a senior Obama adviser. 

The Arab peace plan received a boost last week when President Shimon Peres,
a Nobel peace laureate and leading Israeli dove, commended the initiative at
a Saudi-sponsored United Nations conference in New York. 

Peres was loudly applauded for telling King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who
was behind the original initiative: "I wish that your voice will become the
prevailing voice of the whole region, of all people." 

A bipartisan group of senior foreign policy advisers urged Obama to give the
Arab plan top priority immediately after his election victory. They included
Lee Hamilton, the former co-chairman of the Iraq Study Group, and Zbigniew
Brzezinski, a Democrat former national security adviser. Brzezinski will
give an address tomorrow at Chatham House, the international relations think
tank, in London. 

Brent Scowcroft, a Republican former national security adviser, joined in
the appeal. He said last week that the Middle East was the most troublesome
area in the world and that an early start to the Palestinian peace process
was "a way to psychologically change the mood of the region". 

Advisers believe the diplomatic climate favours a deal as Arab League
countries are under pressure from radical Islamic movements and a
potentially nuclear Iran. Polls show that Palestinians and Israelis are in a
mood to compromise. 

The advisers have told Obama he should lose no time in pursuing the policy
in the first six to 12 months in office while he enjoys maximum goodwill. 

Obama is also looking to break a diplomatic deadlock over Iran's pursuit of
nuclear weapons technology. A possible way forward, suggested last spring by
Dennis Ross, a senior Obama adviser and former Middle East envoy, would be
to persuade Russia to join in tough economic sanctions against Iran by
offering to modify the US plan for a "missile shield" in eastern Europe. 

President Dmitry Medvedev signalled that Russia could cancel a tit-for-tat
deployment of missiles close to the Polish border if America gave up its
proposed missile defences in Poland and the Czech Republic. 

Ross argued in a paper on How to Talk to Iran that "if the Iranian threat
goes away, so does the principal need to deploy these [antimissile] forces.
[Vladimir] Putin [the Russian prime minister] has made this such a symbolic
issue that this trade-off could be portrayed as a great victory for him". 

Ross and Daniel Kurtzer, a former American ambassador to Israel, accompanied
Obama on a visit to Israel last July. They also travelled to Ramallah, where
Obama questioned Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian leader, about the prospects
for the Arab plan. 

According to a Washington source Obama told Abbas: "The Israelis would be
crazy not to accept this initiative. It would give them peace with the
Muslim world from Indonesia to Morocco." 

Kurtzer submitted a paper to Obama on the question before this month's
presidential elections. He argued that trying to reach bilateral peace
agreements between Israel and individual countries in the Middle East, was a
recipe for failure as the record of Bill Clinton and George W Bush showed.
In contrast, the broader Arab plan "had a lot of appeal". A leading
Democratic expert on the Middle East said: "There's not a lot of meat on the
bones yet, but it offers recognition of Israel across the Arab world." 

Livni, the leader of Kadima, which favours the plan, is the front-runner in
Israeli elections due in February. Her rival, Benjamin Netanyahu, the leader
of Likud, is adamantly against withdrawing to borders that predate the Six
Day war in 1967. 

Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, last week expressed his support for
Israel's withdrawal from the West Bank Golan and east Jerusalem. 

 

Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd.

This service is provided on Times Newspapers'
<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/tools_and_services/services/terms_and_cond
itions/> standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our
<http://www.nidp.com> Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce
material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click
<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/tools_and_services/services/syndication/>
here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group.
News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding
company for the News International group and is registered in England No
81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.

 

 

  _____  

_______________________________________________

  _____  

_______________________________________________

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 18 10:13:56 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:13:56 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal
In-Reply-To: <01e501c9498f$c7e51580$57af4080$@com><BLU125-DS48B92F997F7E5C298E865BA120@phx.gbl>	<01f701c94993$ad544110$07fcc330$@com><BLU125-DS5FA3460765AF2B4E4542DBA120@phx.gbl>
	<020901c94995$9083eed0$b18bcc70$@com>
References: <01e501c9498f$c7e51580$57af4080$@com><BLU125-DS48B92F997F7E5C298E865BA120@phx.gbl>	<01f701c94993$ad544110$07fcc330$@com><BLU125-DS5FA3460765AF2B4E4542DBA120@phx.gbl>
	<020901c94995$9083eed0$b18bcc70$@com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS60CA9ABF2C33DDF7D8450BA120@phx.gbl>

You are very kind, Patty.  Thank you for that.  

We have work to do and we need to unite - that is we, the Tribes, need to RE-unite - and be about our Father's business.  May it begin with you and me, and may we see the Whole House of Israel come together!  

My love to you, dear one,

Pat  


From: Patty 
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:51 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: RE: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal


Really? I never thought that about you for a minute!

 

Happy to see and hear from you too!!

 

Patty

 

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Robbins
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:47 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal

 

Not you, dear one, MEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!  I was looking up Scriptures and quoting before thinking of how they would come across.  Please forgive me for that. 

 

I'm so happy to see and hear from you!

 

Pat  

 

From: Patty 

Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:38 AM

To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 

Subject: RE: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal

 

Hi Pat, how are you? Thanks for the welcome back, I'll try to behave J

 

Patty

 

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Robbins
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:28 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal

 

SO TERRIFIC TO HEAR FROM YOU, PATTY!!!  

 

It was wonderful to see your name pop up this morning.  Please keep them coming!!!!!

 

Pat

 

From: Patty 

Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:10 AM

To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 

Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal

 



>From The Sunday Times

November 16, 2008

Barack Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal
Uzi Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv and Sarah Baxter 

 

Barack Obama is to pursue an ambitious peace plan in the Middle East involving the recognition of Israel by the Arab world in exchange for its withdrawal to pre-1967 borders, according to sources close to America's president-elect. 

Obama intends to throw his support behind a 2002 Saudi peace initiative endorsed by the Arab League and backed by Tzipi Livni, the Israeli foreign minister and leader of the ruling Kadima party. 

The proposal gives Israel an effective veto on the return of Arab refugees expelled in 1948 while requiring it to restore the Golan Heights to Syria and allow the Palestinians to establish a state capital in east Jerusalem. 

On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately it would be "crazy" for Israel to refuse a deal that could "give them peace with the Muslim world", according to a senior Obama adviser. 

The Arab peace plan received a boost last week when President Shimon Peres, a Nobel peace laureate and leading Israeli dove, commended the initiative at a Saudi-sponsored United Nations conference in New York. 

Peres was loudly applauded for telling King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who was behind the original initiative: "I wish that your voice will become the prevailing voice of the whole region, of all people." 

A bipartisan group of senior foreign policy advisers urged Obama to give the Arab plan top priority immediately after his election victory. They included Lee Hamilton, the former co-chairman of the Iraq Study Group, and Zbigniew Brzezinski, a Democrat former national security adviser. Brzezinski will give an address tomorrow at Chatham House, the international relations think tank, in London. 

Brent Scowcroft, a Republican former national security adviser, joined in the appeal. He said last week that the Middle East was the most troublesome area in the world and that an early start to the Palestinian peace process was "a way to psychologically change the mood of the region". 

Advisers believe the diplomatic climate favours a deal as Arab League countries are under pressure from radical Islamic movements and a potentially nuclear Iran. Polls show that Palestinians and Israelis are in a mood to compromise. 

The advisers have told Obama he should lose no time in pursuing the policy in the first six to 12 months in office while he enjoys maximum goodwill. 

Obama is also looking to break a diplomatic deadlock over Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons technology. A possible way forward, suggested last spring by Dennis Ross, a senior Obama adviser and former Middle East envoy, would be to persuade Russia to join in tough economic sanctions against Iran by offering to modify the US plan for a "missile shield" in eastern Europe. 

President Dmitry Medvedev signalled that Russia could cancel a tit-for-tat deployment of missiles close to the Polish border if America gave up its proposed missile defences in Poland and the Czech Republic. 

Ross argued in a paper on How to Talk to Iran that "if the Iranian threat goes away, so does the principal need to deploy these [antimissile] forces. [Vladimir] Putin [the Russian prime minister] has made this such a symbolic issue that this trade-off could be portrayed as a great victory for him". 

Ross and Daniel Kurtzer, a former American ambassador to Israel, accompanied Obama on a visit to Israel last July. They also travelled to Ramallah, where Obama questioned Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian leader, about the prospects for the Arab plan. 

According to a Washington source Obama told Abbas: "The Israelis would be crazy not to accept this initiative. It would give them peace with the Muslim world from Indonesia to Morocco." 

Kurtzer submitted a paper to Obama on the question before this month's presidential elections. He argued that trying to reach bilateral peace agreements between Israel and individual countries in the Middle East, was a recipe for failure as the record of Bill Clinton and George W Bush showed. In contrast, the broader Arab plan "had a lot of appeal". A leading Democratic expert on the Middle East said: "There's not a lot of meat on the bones yet, but it offers recognition of Israel across the Arab world." 

Livni, the leader of Kadima, which favours the plan, is the front-runner in Israeli elections due in February. Her rival, Benjamin Netanyahu, the leader of Likud, is adamantly against withdrawing to borders that predate the Six Day war in 1967. 

Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, last week expressed his support for Israel's withdrawal from the West Bank Golan and east Jerusalem. 

 

Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd.

This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group. News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding company for the News International group and is registered in England No 81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.

 

 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________



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From ptyler at aac-usa.com  Tue Nov 18 10:19:19 2008
From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty )
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:19:19 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal
In-Reply-To: <BLU125-DS60CA9ABF2C33DDF7D8450BA120@phx.gbl>
References: <01e501c9498f$c7e51580$57af4080$@com><BLU125-DS48B92F997F7E5C298E865BA120@phx.gbl>	<01f701c94993$ad544110$07fcc330$@com><BLU125-DS5FA3460765AF2B4E4542DBA120@phx.gbl>	<020901c94995$9083eed0$b18bcc70$@com>
	<BLU125-DS60CA9ABF2C33DDF7D8450BA120@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <023901c94999$6abbdb50$403391f0$@com>

Love to you Pat, and All!

 

Patty

 

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Robbins
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:14 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders
deal

 

You are very kind, Patty.  Thank you for that.  

 

We have work to do and we need to unite - that is we, the Tribes, need to
RE-unite - and be about our Father's business.  May it begin with you and
me, and may we see the Whole House of Israel come together!  

 

My love to you, dear one,

 

Pat  

 

From: Patty  <mailto:ptyler at aac-usa.com> 

Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:51 AM

To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 

Subject: RE: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders
deal

 

Really? I never thought that about you for a minute!

 

Happy to see and hear from you too!!

 

Patty

 

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Robbins
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:47 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders
deal

 

Not you, dear one, MEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!  I was looking up Scriptures and
quoting before thinking of how they would come across.  Please forgive me
for that. 

 

I'm so happy to see and hear from you!

 

Pat  

 

From: Patty  <mailto:ptyler at aac-usa.com> 

Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:38 AM

To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 

Subject: RE: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders
deal

 

Hi Pat, how are you? Thanks for the welcome back, I'll try to behave J

 

Patty

 

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Robbins
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:28 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders
deal

 

SO TERRIFIC TO HEAR FROM YOU, PATTY!!!  

 

It was wonderful to see your name pop up this morning.  Please keep them
coming!!!!!

 

Pat

 

From: Patty  <mailto:ptyler at aac-usa.com> 

Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:10 AM

To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 

Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal

 

Times Online Logo 222 x 25

>From The Sunday Times

November 16, 2008


Barack Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal


Uzi Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv and Sarah Baxter 

 

Barack Obama is to pursue an ambitious peace plan in the Middle East
involving the recognition of Israel by the Arab world in exchange for its
withdrawal to pre-1967 borders, according to sources close to America's
president-elect. 

Obama intends to throw his support behind a 2002 Saudi peace initiative
endorsed by the Arab League and backed by Tzipi Livni, the Israeli foreign
minister and leader of the ruling Kadima party. 

The proposal gives Israel an effective veto on the return of Arab refugees
expelled in 1948 while requiring it to restore the Golan Heights to Syria
and allow the Palestinians to establish a state capital in east Jerusalem. 

On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately
it would be "crazy" for Israel to refuse a deal that could "give them peace
with the Muslim world", according to a senior Obama adviser. 

The Arab peace plan received a boost last week when President Shimon Peres,
a Nobel peace laureate and leading Israeli dove, commended the initiative at
a Saudi-sponsored United Nations conference in New York. 

Peres was loudly applauded for telling King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who
was behind the original initiative: "I wish that your voice will become the
prevailing voice of the whole region, of all people." 

A bipartisan group of senior foreign policy advisers urged Obama to give the
Arab plan top priority immediately after his election victory. They included
Lee Hamilton, the former co-chairman of the Iraq Study Group, and Zbigniew
Brzezinski, a Democrat former national security adviser. Brzezinski will
give an address tomorrow at Chatham House, the international relations think
tank, in London. 

Brent Scowcroft, a Republican former national security adviser, joined in
the appeal. He said last week that the Middle East was the most troublesome
area in the world and that an early start to the Palestinian peace process
was "a way to psychologically change the mood of the region". 

Advisers believe the diplomatic climate favours a deal as Arab League
countries are under pressure from radical Islamic movements and a
potentially nuclear Iran. Polls show that Palestinians and Israelis are in a
mood to compromise. 

The advisers have told Obama he should lose no time in pursuing the policy
in the first six to 12 months in office while he enjoys maximum goodwill. 

Obama is also looking to break a diplomatic deadlock over Iran's pursuit of
nuclear weapons technology. A possible way forward, suggested last spring by
Dennis Ross, a senior Obama adviser and former Middle East envoy, would be
to persuade Russia to join in tough economic sanctions against Iran by
offering to modify the US plan for a "missile shield" in eastern Europe. 

President Dmitry Medvedev signalled that Russia could cancel a tit-for-tat
deployment of missiles close to the Polish border if America gave up its
proposed missile defences in Poland and the Czech Republic. 

Ross argued in a paper on How to Talk to Iran that "if the Iranian threat
goes away, so does the principal need to deploy these [antimissile] forces.
[Vladimir] Putin [the Russian prime minister] has made this such a symbolic
issue that this trade-off could be portrayed as a great victory for him". 

Ross and Daniel Kurtzer, a former American ambassador to Israel, accompanied
Obama on a visit to Israel last July. They also travelled to Ramallah, where
Obama questioned Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian leader, about the prospects
for the Arab plan. 

According to a Washington source Obama told Abbas: "The Israelis would be
crazy not to accept this initiative. It would give them peace with the
Muslim world from Indonesia to Morocco." 

Kurtzer submitted a paper to Obama on the question before this month's
presidential elections. He argued that trying to reach bilateral peace
agreements between Israel and individual countries in the Middle East, was a
recipe for failure as the record of Bill Clinton and George W Bush showed.
In contrast, the broader Arab plan "had a lot of appeal". A leading
Democratic expert on the Middle East said: "There's not a lot of meat on the
bones yet, but it offers recognition of Israel across the Arab world." 

Livni, the leader of Kadima, which favours the plan, is the front-runner in
Israeli elections due in February. Her rival, Benjamin Netanyahu, the leader
of Likud, is adamantly against withdrawing to borders that predate the Six
Day war in 1967. 

Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, last week expressed his support for
Israel's withdrawal from the West Bank Golan and east Jerusalem. 

 

Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd.

This service is provided on Times Newspapers'
<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/tools_and_services/services/terms_and_cond
itions/> standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our
<http://www.nidp.com> Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce
material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click
<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/tools_and_services/services/syndication/>
here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group.
News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding
company for the News International group and is registered in England No
81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.

 

 

  _____  

_______________________________________________

  _____  

_______________________________________________

  _____  

_______________________________________________

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov 19 02:44:12 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:44:12 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders
	deal]
Message-ID: <4923D1DC.1010205@westnet.com.au>

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From ptyler at aac-usa.com  Wed Nov 19 08:44:09 2008
From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty )
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:44:09 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967
	borders	deal]
In-Reply-To: <4923D1DC.1010205@westnet.com.au>
References: <4923D1DC.1010205@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <02ca01c94a55$4a90d0d0$dfb27270$@com>

Hi Joe,

 

Thanks for the welcome and the comments to the news report. I am leaving for
Boston this morning, but will print this out and read on the way. 

 

Patty

 

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of JOE INDOMENICO
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:44 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders
deal]

 

Shalom Patty,

very nice to have you back. A very warm welcome.

Thank you for posting this article on the"current peace proposal"tabled by
the Saudis. I do not know your stand on this. 
However I am disturbed by the comments that were made in the article :

On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately
it would be ?crazy? for Israel to refuse a deal that could ?give them peace
with the Muslim world?, according to a senior Obama adviser. 

The Arab peace plan received a boost last week when President Shimon Peres,
a Nobel peace laureate and leading Israeli dove, commended the initiative at
a Saudi-sponsored United Nations conference in New York. 

Peres was loudly applauded for telling King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who
was behind the original initiative: ?I wish that your voice will become the
prevailing voice of the whole region, of all people.?

It seems like ground hog day to me.

I would like to quote some excerpts from -New York Review of Books : Vol 49
No 10, June18 2002."Camp David and After" by Benny Morris.

The call from Bill Clinton came hours after the publication in The New York
Times of Deborah Sontag's "revisionist" article ("Quest for Middle East
Peace: How and Why It Failed," July 26, 2001) on the Israeli?Palestinian
peace process. Ehud Barak, Israel's former prime minister, on vacation, was
swimming in a cove in Sardinia. Clinton said (according to Barak): 

What the hell is this? Why is she turning the mistakes we [i.e., the US and
Israel] made into the essence? The true story of Camp David was that for the
first time in the history of the conflict the American president put on the
table a proposal, based on UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, very
close to the Palestinian demands, and Arafat refused even to accept it as a
basis for negotiations, walked out of the room, and deliberately turned to
terrorism. That's the real story?all the rest is gossip.

Clinton was speaking of the two-week-long July 2000 Camp David conference
that he had organized and mediated and its failure, and the eruption at the
end of September of the Palestinian intifada, or campaign of anti-Israeli
violence, which has continued ever since and which currently plagues the
Middle East, with no end in sight. Midway in the conference, apparently on
July 18, Clinton had "slowly"?to avoid misunderstanding?read out to Arafat a
document, endorsed in advance by Barak, outlining the main points of a
future settlement. The proposals included the establishment of a
demilitarized Palestinian state on some 92 percent of the West Bank and 100
percent of the Gaza Strip, with some territorial compensation for the
Palestinians from pre-1967 Israeli territory; the dismantling of most of the
settlements and the concentration of the bulk of the settlers inside the 8
percent of the West Bank to be annexed by Israel; the establishment of the
Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem, in which some Arab neighborhoods
would become sovereign Palestinian territory and others would enjoy
"functional autonomy"; Palestinian sovereignty over half the Old City of
Jerusalem (the Muslim and Christian quarters) and "custodianship," though
not sovereignty, over the Temple Mount; a return of refugees to the
prospective Palestinian state though with no "right of return" to Israel
proper; and the organization by the international community of a massive aid
program to facilitate the refugees' rehabilitation.

Arafat said "No." Clinton, enraged, banged on the table and said: "You are
leading your people and the region to a catastrophe." A formal Palestinian
rejection of the proposals reached the Americans the next day. The summit
sputtered on for a few days more but to all intents and purposes it was
over.

What they [Arafat and his colleagues] want is a Palestinian state in all of
Palestine. What we see as self-evident, [the need for] two states for two
peoples, they reject. Israel is too strong at the moment to defeat, so they
formally recognize it. But their game plan is to establish a Palestinian
state while always leaving an opening for further "legitimate" demands down
the road. For now, they are willing to agree to a temporary truce ? la
Hudnat Hudaybiyah [a temporary truce that the Prophet Muhammad concluded
with the leaders of Mecca during 628?629, which he subsequently unilaterally
violated]. They will exploit the tolerance and democracy of Israel first to
turn it into "a state for all its citizens," as demanded by the extreme
nationalist wing of Israel's Arabs and extremist left-wing Jewish Israelis.
Then they will push for a binational state and then, demography and
attrition will lead to a state with a Muslim majority and a Jewish minority.
This would not necessarily involve kicking out all the Jews. But it would
mean the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state. This, I believe, is their
vision. They may not talk about it often, openly, but this is their vision.
Arafat sees himself as a reborn Saladin?the Kurdish Muslim general who
defeated the Crusaders in the twelfth century?and Israel as just another,
ephemeral Crusader state.

Arafat, says Barak, believes that Israel "has no right to exist, and he
seeks its demise." Barak buttresses this by arguing that Arafat "does not
recognize the existence of a Jewish people or nation, only a Jewish
religion, because it is mentioned in the Koran and because he remembers
seeing, as a kid, Jews praying at the Wailing Wall." This, Barak believes,
underlay Arafat's insistence at Camp David (and since) that the Palestinians
have sole sovereignty over the Temple Mount compound (Haram al-Sharif?the
noble sanctuary) in the southeastern corner of Jerusalem's Old City. Arafat
denies that any Jewish temple has ever stood there?and this is a microcosm
of his denial of the Jews' historical connection and claim to the Land of
Israel/Palestine. Hence, in December 2000, Arafat refused to accept even the
vague formulation proposed by Clinton positing Israeli sovereignty over the
earth beneath the Temple Mount's surface area.

Barak recalls Clinton telling him that during the Camp David talks he had
attended Sunday services and the minister had preached a sermon mentioning
Solomon, the king who built the First Temple. Later that evening, he had met
Arafat and spoke of the sermon. Arafat had said: "There is nothing there
[i.e., no trace of a temple on the Temple Mount]." Clinton responded that
"not only the Jews but I, too, believe that under the surface there are
remains of Solomon's temple." (At this point one of Clinton's [Jewish] aides
whispered to the President that he should tell Arafat that this is his
personal opinion, not an official American position.)

Repeatedly during our prolonged interview, conducted in his office in a Tel
Aviv skyscraper, Barak shook his head?in bewilderment and sadness?at what he
regards as Palestinian, and especially Arafat's, mendacity:

They are products of a culture in which to tell a lie...creates no
dissonance. They don't suffer from the problem of telling lies that exists
in Judeo-Christian culture. Truth is seen as an irrelevant category. There
is only that which serves your purpose and that which doesn't. They see
themselves as emissaries of a national movement for whom everything is
permissible. There is no such thing as "the truth." 

For those who would like to read the article in its entirety  :
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/15501

The manipulation by the world media would have you believe that Israel is
not serious or capable in achieving a peaceful solution and it is only the
Saudis that are capable and everyone is lining up including Obama. 

The original proposal was tabled in 2000 at Camp David by Ehud Barak and
Clinton only to be rescinded with the shedding of innocent blood when the
second Intifada started in September 2000.

So a two state solution is a total contravention of HaShem's Holy Covenant
as spelled out in His Holy Torah.

It could be that the political shifting sands of World leaders including a
deluded left wing in Israel may be on the brink of formulating such madness.


I , for one believe that HaShem has already given us a clear message where
this will lead as already experienced in 2000.
He has been gracious enough to plainly show us the dark game plan of our
adversaries.
It is up to us to heed His Holy voice.

This is not a political or philosophical statement.

In light of the Lebanon War of 2006, can Israel defend herself without the
Shomron(West Bank), Gaza, the Golan, East Yerushalayim, ? The Arab world
with the support of the West would say no. Anyone that would question this
would be considered a fool. The katushah rain storm of 2006 was ample proof.

Then again HaShem loves the fools that dare stand up and declare His eternal
Word.

AM YISRAEL CHAI !!!!

Shalom v'Ahavah. I will try to behave P :-)
JOE.

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 19 08:53:38 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:53:38 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967
	bordersdeal]
In-Reply-To: <4923D1DC.1010205@westnet.com.au>
References: <4923D1DC.1010205@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS4F6ED59FF52B16EF952A8BA0D0@phx.gbl>

Dear Regathered Israel,

Time and again the Arabs have proven what they do with the land they possess, which is to use it as a launching pad to target Jews.  The Golan Heights was a weapon of mass destruction in their hands, and now we would consider letting them have another go at us????????  This is insanity.  Does anyone remember how they would use that high ground to try to pick off the Jewish school children down in the settlements below?  Does anyone remember how the fathers of those children would plow their farm land on tractors rigged up with armor plating to make it harder for the snipers on the heights to kill them as they tried to till their land?

Take heed in the article below to the fact that TRUTH to militant Arabs is relative.  Their version of "truth" = "what serves me best at any given moment!"   

Do we stand with Israel or against it?  Do we stand with the Jews or their nemesis?  HaShem established the borders of the Land, and gave that Land to Israel (THE WHOLE HOUSE OF ISRAEL) to hold and protect.  It is His to give, not ours.  As I see it, our stance in this conflict boils down to "...choose this day whom you will serve........as for me and my house, we will serve the L-RD."  Joshua 24:15    How do we put those words into action in our lives, but to stand with and for an undivided Israeli State?

We need to look at facts, not rhetoric.  We ARE the Tribes of Israel.  G-d chose us and gave us this Land.   It is the place where He has chosen to put His Name.  We are its caregivers, not it's realtors.  I cannot see where we have the right, before HaShem, to divide His Land.

Pat    




From: JOE INDOMENICO 
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:44 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 bordersdeal]


Shalom Patty,

very nice to have you back. A very warm welcome.

Thank you for posting this article on the"current peace proposal"tabled by the Saudis. I do not know your stand on this. 
However I am disturbed by the comments that were made in the article :


On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately it would be "crazy" for Israel to refuse a deal that could "give them peace with the Muslim world", according to a senior Obama adviser. 

The Arab peace plan received a boost last week when President Shimon Peres, a Nobel peace laureate and leading Israeli dove, commended the initiative at a Saudi-sponsored United Nations conference in New York. 

Peres was loudly applauded for telling King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who was behind the original initiative: "I wish that your voice will become the prevailing voice of the whole region, of all people."


It seems like ground hog day to me.


I would like to quote some excerpts from -New York Review of Books : Vol 49 No 10, June18 2002."Camp David and After" by Benny Morris.


The call from Bill Clinton came hours after the publication in The New York Times of Deborah Sontag's "revisionist" article ("Quest for Middle East Peace: How and Why It Failed," July 26, 2001) on the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. Ehud Barak, Israel's former prime minister, on vacation, was swimming in a cove in Sardinia. Clinton said (according to Barak): 

  What the hell is this? Why is she turning the mistakes we [i.e., the US and Israel] made into the essence? The true story of Camp David was that for the first time in the history of the conflict the American president put on the table a proposal, based on UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, very close to the Palestinian demands, and Arafat refused even to accept it as a basis for negotiations, walked out of the room, and deliberately turned to terrorism. That's the real story-all the rest is gossip.
Clinton was speaking of the two-week-long July 2000 Camp David conference that he had organized and mediated and its failure, and the eruption at the end of September of the Palestinian intifada, or campaign of anti-Israeli violence, which has continued ever since and which currently plagues the Middle East, with no end in sight. Midway in the conference, apparently on July 18, Clinton had "slowly"-to avoid misunderstanding-read out to Arafat a document, endorsed in advance by Barak, outlining the main points of a future settlement. The proposals included the establishment of a demilitarized Palestinian state on some 92 percent of the West Bank and 100 percent of the Gaza Strip, with some territorial compensation for the Palestinians from pre-1967 Israeli territory; the dismantling of most of the settlements and the concentration of the bulk of the settlers inside the 8 percent of the West Bank to be annexed by Israel; the establishment of the Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem, in which some Arab neighborhoods would become sovereign Palestinian territory and others would enjoy "functional autonomy"; Palestinian sovereignty over half the Old City of Jerusalem (the Muslim and Christian quarters) and "custodianship," though not sovereignty, over the Temple Mount; a return of refugees to the prospective Palestinian state though with no "right of return" to Israel proper; and the organization by the international community of a massive aid program to facilitate the refugees' rehabilitation.


Arafat said "No." Clinton, enraged, banged on the table and said: "You are leading your people and the region to a catastrophe." A formal Palestinian rejection of the proposals reached the Americans the next day. The summit sputtered on for a few days more but to all intents and purposes it was over.


What they [Arafat and his colleagues] want is a Palestinian state in all of Palestine. What we see as self-evident, [the need for] two states for two peoples, they reject. Israel is too strong at the moment to defeat, so they formally recognize it. But their game plan is to establish a Palestinian state while always leaving an opening for further "legitimate" demands down the road. For now, they are willing to agree to a temporary truce ? la Hudnat Hudaybiyah [a temporary truce that the Prophet Muhammad concluded with the leaders of Mecca during 628-629, which he subsequently unilaterally violated]. They will exploit the tolerance and democracy of Israel first to turn it into "a state for all its citizens," as demanded by the extreme nationalist wing of Israel's Arabs and extremist left-wing Jewish Israelis. Then they will push for a binational state and then, demography and attrition will lead to a state with a Muslim majority and a Jewish minority. This would not necessarily involve kicking out all the Jews. But it would mean the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state. This, I believe, is their vision. They may not talk about it often, openly, but this is their vision. Arafat sees himself as a reborn Saladin-the Kurdish Muslim general who defeated the Crusaders in the twelfth century-and Israel as just another, ephemeral Crusader state.


Arafat, says Barak, believes that Israel "has no right to exist, and he seeks its demise." Barak buttresses this by arguing that Arafat "does not recognize the existence of a Jewish people or nation, only a Jewish religion, because it is mentioned in the Koran and because he remembers seeing, as a kid, Jews praying at the Wailing Wall." This, Barak believes, underlay Arafat's insistence at Camp David (and since) that the Palestinians have sole sovereignty over the Temple Mount compound (Haram al-Sharif-the noble sanctuary) in the southeastern corner of Jerusalem's Old City. Arafat denies that any Jewish temple has ever stood there-and this is a microcosm of his denial of the Jews' historical connection and claim to the Land of Israel/Palestine. Hence, in December 2000, Arafat refused to accept even the vague formulation proposed by Clinton positing Israeli sovereignty over the earth beneath the Temple Mount's surface area.

Barak recalls Clinton telling him that during the Camp David talks he had attended Sunday services and the minister had preached a sermon mentioning Solomon, the king who built the First Temple. Later that evening, he had met Arafat and spoke of the sermon. Arafat had said: "There is nothing there [i.e., no trace of a temple on the Temple Mount]." Clinton responded that "not only the Jews but I, too, believe that under the surface there are remains of Solomon's temple." (At this point one of Clinton's [Jewish] aides whispered to the President that he should tell Arafat that this is his personal opinion, not an official American position.)

Repeatedly during our prolonged interview, conducted in his office in a Tel Aviv skyscraper, Barak shook his head-in bewilderment and sadness-at what he regards as Palestinian, and especially Arafat's, mendacity:

  They are products of a culture in which to tell a lie...creates no dissonance. They don't suffer from the problem of telling lies that exists in Judeo-Christian culture. Truth is seen as an irrelevant category. There is only that which serves your purpose and that which doesn't. They see themselves as emissaries of a national movement for whom everything is permissible. There is no such thing as "the truth." 
For those who would like to read the article in its entirety  :  http://www.nybooks.com/articles/15501

The manipulation by the world media would have you believe that Israel is not serious or capable in achieving a peaceful solution and it is only the Saudis that are capable and everyone is lining up including Obama. 


The original proposal was tabled in 2000 at Camp David by Ehud Barak and Clinton only to be rescinded with the shedding of innocent blood when the second Intifada started in September 2000.


So a two state solution is a total contravention of HaShem's Holy Covenant as spelled out in His Holy Torah.


It could be that the political shifting sands of World leaders including a deluded left wing in Israel may be on the brink of formulating such madness. 


I , for one believe that HaShem has already given us a clear message where this will lead as already experienced in 2000.
He has been gracious enough to plainly show us the dark game plan of our adversaries.
It is up to us to heed His Holy voice.


This is not a political or philosophical statement.


In light of the Lebanon War of 2006, can Israel defend herself without the Shomron(West Bank), Gaza, the Golan, East Yerushalayim, ? The Arab world with the support of the West would say no. Anyone that would question this would be considered a fool. The katushah rain storm of 2006 was ample proof.


Then again HaShem loves the fools that dare stand up and declare His eternal Word.


AM YISRAEL CHAI !!!!


Shalom v'Ahavah. I will try to behave P :-)
JOE.




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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov 19 15:51:28 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:51:28 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to
	1967	bordersdeal]]
Message-ID: <49248A60.3090402@westnet.com.au>

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Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967
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Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:53:38 -0500
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov 19 16:02:28 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:02:28 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] The practicality of Gaza Starvation.
Message-ID: <49248CF4.7050403@westnet.com.au>

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From dialogue at bdjones.com  Wed Nov 19 19:06:52 2008
From: dialogue at bdjones.com (Brian)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:06:52 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] Last Call for Israel with Joe Good
Message-ID: <200811200107.mAK174uu026347@nlpi053.prodigy.net>

Again, I wanted to urge anyone that has been thinking about going to 
Israel, and can act fast, to consider the openings on Joe Good's tour 
coming up. It leaves the Sunday after Thanksgiving. The couple had to 
cancel at the last minute and had purchased the "land only" part of 
the tour. That means that you can take advantage of the decrease in 
airfare (and many can help out finding the best airfare). They are 
willing to talk price, but that is between you and them. If anyone 
can go, you would not only have the trip of a lifetime, you would be 
helping out the couple that had to cancel. Thanks



From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov 19 22:57:01 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:57:01 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] In Memory of Rabbi Kahane: 'He Feared No One But the
 Creator' - Jewish World - Israel News - Israel National News
Message-ID: <4924EE1D.4020802@westnet.com.au>

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov 19 23:45:59 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:45:59 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] MASHIACH NOT THE END OF TROUBLES.
Message-ID: <4924F997.3060702@westnet.com.au>

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From noreply at myyearbook.com  Thu Nov 20 08:12:49 2008
From: noreply at myyearbook.com (myYearbook)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:12:49 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] roots -- Friend request from Tammy
Message-ID: <FE.09.28059.16075294@smtp01.scs.myyearbook.com>

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From tsbcroley at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 20 08:24:01 2008
From: tsbcroley at yahoo.com (Tammy & Bruce Croley)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 06:24:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Dialogue] roots -- Sorry about this!
In-Reply-To: <FE.09.28059.16075294@smtp01.scs.myyearbook.com>
Message-ID: <12402.40929.qm@web57104.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Good Morning,
Sorry to all about sending this out on the dialogue list.? A friend sent this to me and I clicked "yes" and did not realize that it would send out to all on my email list.
Again I am sorry....to clutter your emails.
Shalom,
Tammy Croley


?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?It is very good to rely on G-d completely. As each day begins, I place my every movement in G-d?s hands, asking that I do only His will. This is very good and I have no worries. Whether or not things go right, I am completely dependant upon G-d. If He desires otherwise, I have already asked that I do only His will."?   ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Rabbi Nachman's Wisdom 2

--- On Thu, 11/20/08, myYearbook <noreply at myyearbook.com> wrote:
From: myYearbook <noreply at myyearbook.com>
Subject: [Dialogue] roots -- Friend request from Tammy
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Date: Thursday, November 20, 2008, 8:12 AM





	
		
			Friendship Request
		





	
  
   
    
    
     
     
	             Block myYearbook Email | Mark Spam
           
     
    
   
 
  
  
  
    
      
                Tammy has added you as a friend 
      
      
        Is Tammy your friend?
      
      
        
          
              
              
              
            
                  
      
      
        Please respond or Tammy will think you said no :(
      
  
     Click Here to block all emails from myYearbook, 280 Union Square Dr., New Hope, PA 18938
     
  
 
  
	 
.

_______________________________________________



      
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From tposborne77 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 20 12:55:57 2008
From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com (Tracy Osborne)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:55:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Dialogue] Back to The Exile
Message-ID: <364779.26235.qm@web51110.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Shalom Y'all,

I have returned from my new home, Eretz Israel. May I merit to return home soon!! I will be sharing more in the days ahead, when I recover a little from Jet Lag and catch up on some of my 'chores'. I had a great time with the folks and especially with Hanoch!!

For now, you can go here www.inspiredfaith.organd notice?at the top of the page?that my New CD is?being played on this internet radio. If you are so inclined, and if you're interested in hearing?the songs yourself,?and/or you would like?the Ezekiel 37?message to reach this audience, you can create a log-in and begin to request?my songs to be played. The name of the CD is? One In My Hand . Each song can be played once every 4 hours and you can request 2 songs every 2 hours.

Love & Prayers,

Tracy Osborne
www.OnHigh.org


      
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Thu Nov 20 14:36:10 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:36:10 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Back to The Exile]
Message-ID: <4925CA3A.9020405@westnet.com.au>

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Thu Nov 20 15:34:32 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:34:32 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] Supremes to review Barack's citizenship
Message-ID: <4925D7E8.1020307@westnet.com.au>

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From RNDAVAR at aol.com  Thu Nov 20 21:17:01 2008
From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:17:01 EST
Subject: [Dialogue] Supremes to review Barack's citizenship
Message-ID: <c7d.3af7db04.3657822d@aol.com>

Dear Joe and all - shalom,
 
For what its worth, Snopes, the on-line rumor site has an entire page with  
all of the rumors about Barack Obama. If one is inclined, they can read through 
 the numerous articles that discuss all of the claims about him. This site 
seems  to address most of the big ones.  They even have a link to the copy of 
his  birth certificate, showing that he was born in Hawaii, August 4, 1961 at 
7:24  PM. 
 
Now I am not that interested in mysticism of any sort, but I do like to  read 
the Torah Reading that is associated with specific historical dates. For  
those that are interested, the Torah Reading associated with Obama's birth was  
Ekev (Deuteronomy 7:12-11:25). The Haphtarah was Isaiah 49:14-51:3. 
 
Whether one likes or dislikes Obama, this is a great Torah Reading! And  thus 
I bring the list back to the Bible:)
 
Here is the link to Snopes on Obama-
 
_http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/obama.asp_ 
(http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/obama.asp) 
 
Ross K.  Nichols 
_www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) 


**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, 
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com 
today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp
%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)
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From dhcole1 at cox.net  Thu Nov 20 23:50:11 2008
From: dhcole1 at cox.net (Dave Cole)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:50:11 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] Roots of Faith on TV
Message-ID: <C67D016E460B4D2CB3598FF704F4C919@davesbook>

Hey ALL

For the next 24 hours you can watch a recording of Ross Nichols teaching at the UIWU conference last year.

We are testing out this medium to use full time in the future.  Please understand, we are working out the bugs with different microphones and cameras.  Next Sabbath and the following Sunday Shul classes we will attempt to go live with this program.

To tune in all you need to do is click a link.  There are no programs/software to download,  all you need is the link (it will always be the same). 

The direct link is  www.mogulus.com/rootsoffaith 

The indirect link is  www.mogulus.com   At this point you click "live now" chose the category "spirituality"  scroll down the list to find the channel "roots of faith"  

There is also a text area on this feed that will allow you to communicate to our room.

As a reminder,  the audio feed that we have been using will not change.  We will continue to record and post all of the Sabbath and Sunday shul classes.

Tune in any time in the next 24 hours and check out a sample of where we are going with this broadcast.  
dave
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sat Nov 22 16:29:10 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 08:29:10 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] LOST TRIBES.
Message-ID: <492887B6.8000007@westnet.com.au>

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From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 22 18:16:42 2008
From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:16:42 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] sign petition to dig for the Ark
In-Reply-To: <200811170706.mAH761wQ023472@mail384c25.carrierzone.com>
References: <200811170706.mAH761wQ023472@mail384c25.carrierzone.com>
Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0811221616r22d9330fpc578bf753896b279@mail.gmail.com>

Done.

On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 1:06 AM, Steve Mathe <eliasaph at uniteourheart.com>wrote:

> Hi, Gang,
>
> As you may know, there is a tradition in Ireland that Jeremiah ended up in
> Ireland with the Ark, David's harp, one or two of King Zedekiah's daughters
> and his scribe Baruch.
> Wether you believe it or not, be it true or not, it would be nice if the
> Minister of Environment in Ireland would permit an archeological dig at the
> Tara site to look for the Ark.
>
> We and the Minister have nothing to lose and everything to gain by such a
> dig.  Please read up on it at this site and sign the petition and add your
> remarks to the for letter.
>
> http://100777.com/ark
>
>
> Gratefully,
>
> Steve
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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From RNDAVAR at aol.com  Sun Nov 23 00:59:15 2008
From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 01:59:15 EST
Subject: [Dialogue] Sunday Shul
Message-ID: <cf2.4703bae6.365a5943@aol.com>

Just a reminder that the time for Sunday Shul has changed! The class will  be 
webcast live at 6:00 PM central instead of 7:00 PM.
 
I just finished my notes and feel an incredible sense about this  lesson.
 
I hope that some of you will join us tomorrow evening live and if you miss  
the live class, I hope you can listen to the podcast at your earliest  
convenience. 
 
This is the 5th class in my series based upon James Tabor's, Restoring  
Abrahamic Faith and the second part on "Following the Way of YHVH".
 
I am teaching on the Torah as the way, and am also covering the great  
"falling away".
 
I obviously start with the book, but make these classes my own. If you do  
not have a copy of the book, Restoring Abrahamic Faith, I urge you to  get one. 
Go to _www.genesis2000.org_ (http://www.genesis2000.org)  to  purchase a copy.
 
Shalom y'all! Listen in Sunday evening.
 
Ross K.  Nichols 
_www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) 


**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, 
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com 
today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp
%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)
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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 23 19:29:36 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:29:36 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Ross's Teaching Tonight 
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS7F2444F24A7EA7A571CF5BA080@phx.gbl>

Ross,

I have missed many of your teachings lately, but I'm so thankful that I didn't miss tonight's.  It was awesome and so deeply appreciated.  Thank you.

Pat
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From rndavar at aol.com  Sun Nov 23 20:44:58 2008
From: rndavar at aol.com (Ross Nichols)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 02:44:58 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] Ross's Teaching Tonight
Message-ID: <1393752087-1227494618-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-859125428-@bxe114.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Thanks Pat! I had a blast teaching it. The audio is already loaded up on my site and Dave Cole is putting the video on www.mogulus.com/rootsoffaith

The video production is in the beginning stages and we do not have a good camera yet. It is a good start though.

Shalom, Ross
------Original Message------
From: Pat Robbins
Sender: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
To: Dialogue List
ReplyTo: Dialogue List
Sent: Nov 23, 2008 7:29 PM
Subject: [Dialogue] Ross's Teaching Tonight

Ross, 
? 
I have missed many of your teachings lately, but I'm so thankful that I didn't miss tonight's.? It was awesome and so deeply appreciated.? Thank you. 
? 
Pat_______________________________________________



Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

From RNDAVAR at aol.com  Sun Nov 23 22:29:28 2008
From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 23:29:28 EST
Subject: [Dialogue] Tonight's class
Message-ID: <bea.2fdc53d5.365b87a8@aol.com>

In tonight's class I referenced an article I had written some time back  
(August 2007). It can be found on my blog. 
_http://rootsoffaith.org/blog-and-podcasts/2007/08/27/regarding-moses-revisiting-an-old-sermon.htm_ 
(http://rootsoffaith.org/blog-and-podcasts/2007/08/27/regarding-moses-revisiting-an-old-sermon.h
tm) 
 
I have already received several bits of feedback from the class  tonight.  I 
am excited that Dave Cole is working on the video piece through  
_www.mogulus.com/rootsoffaith_ (http://www.mogulus.com/rootsoffaith) .  I believe that Dave 
has the class running on the site already.
 
Several have requested that we do video as well as audio and this is what  we 
are working on. We learned of this through Brian during Succoth this year and 
 Dave has jumped in head first to learn this.  At this time we are using a  
very inexpensive camera with a built in microphone for the video and so the  
quality is not where we want it yet, but this is a good beginning. We believe  
that we are to do the best with what we have. We will continue to post the 
audio  files as many want them so that they can download the files and listen to 
them  on their players at their convenience. 
 
I am receiving feedback from first time listeners more frequently and this  
is a good sign to me. I really do have a sense that a new generation of people  
are beginning to awaken from a slumber. 
 
I want to be present on the web when they do wake up.  Many of you  have been 
on this quest for many years. I remember going to the library and  running 
copies of articles from the Jewish Encyclopedia and spending hours  researching. 
Now with the modern age of the internet, these studies are much  easier. It 
truly is nice to be able to declare a message with the potential of  reaching 
people all over the globe.
 
I pray that God will continue to enable us to go forward with this message  
of truth. I am pleased to be alive and teaching at this time.
 
Shalom, Ross
 
 
Ross K.  Nichols 
_www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) 


**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, 
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com 
today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp
%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)
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From carlson_john at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov 25 00:22:34 2008
From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 06:22:34 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] Check this out.
Message-ID: <112520080622.15796.492B99AA000A0C9500003DB422216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net>

This is beautiful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tROiP1TUJRM&feature=related

--
John C. 

"Be excellent to each other!" 
Bill and Ted 
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From mhyde7 at tds.net  Tue Nov 25 05:18:24 2008
From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 06:18:24 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Check this out.
In-Reply-To: <112520080622.15796.492B99AA000A0C9500003DB422216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net>
References: <112520080622.15796.492B99AA000A0C9500003DB422216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net>
Message-ID: <003301c94eef$89a67e70$0400a8c0@marvin>

John,

Sorry I don't get it. Sounds like the new commercial running on TV now with
Ozzie numblining something that you need a text translation to understand
when he ask for a cup of black coffee.   What are the words saying? Yes, the
music is nice, I love good get-tar pickin.

 

  _____  

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of
carlson_john at bellsouth.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:23 AM
To: Dialogue
Subject: [Dialogue] Check this out.

 

This is beautiful.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tROiP1TUJRM
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tROiP1TUJRM&feature=related>
&feature=related

 

--
John C. 

"Be excellent to each other!" 
Bill and Ted 

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From carlson_john at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov 25 07:37:57 2008
From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:37:57 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] Check this out.
In-Reply-To: <003301c94eef$89a67e70$0400a8c0@marvin>
References: <112520080622.15796.492B99AA000A0C9500003DB422216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net><003301c94eef$89a67e70$0400a8c0@marvin>
Message-ID: <165714078-1227620497-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-750441145-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Don't know what the words say, he's Swedish.  Nothing to get, the song and the video are just beautiful to me, thought I'd share it.

John C.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "mhyde" <mhyde7 at tds.net>

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 06:18:24 
To: <dialogue at rootsoffaith.org>
Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Check this out.


_______________________________________________



From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 25 07:53:15 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:53:15 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] IMPORTANT: Virus Alert - Fedex/UPS]
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS6CE8B19123E39CACBAADDBA0B0@phx.gbl>





Received this warning this A.M. and am passing it on.   ~ Pat




 
Hello All! Government personnel and contractors working within the Washington Naval Yard, DC recently received the following information regarding a Fedex/UPS emai which is actually a virus.  Since it's the government putting forth the info we will "assume" that it is accurate and viable.  So.... consider yourselves forewarned! 


 Subject: FW: Snopes virus alert THIS IS REAL     Snopes virus alertJust in time for Christmas mailings, there is a new virus circulating inthe UPS delivery system.  It applies to Fed Ex as well.  You willreceive an email from UPS Packet Service along with a packet number.Note that the word packet is misspelled on this line (paket).  It willsay that they were unable to deliver a package sent to you on such andsuch a date.  It then asks you to print out the invoice copy attached.DO NOT TRY TO PRINT THIS!  IT LAUNCHES THE VIRUS!  Pass this warning onto all your PC buddies.  This virus has supposedly already causedmillions of dollars in damage in the past few days.  Snopes confirmsthat it is real:   http://www.snopes.com/computer/virus/ups.asp<http://www.snopes.com/computer/virus/ups.asp>          		  	  	  	________________________________  	Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while youbrowse with the Games Toolbar - Download Now!<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212904500x1200818240/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/games/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000004>   		  			 	________________________________  	Get the Moviefone Toolbar<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud to be a PC? Show the world. Download the ?I?m a PC? Messenger themepack now. Download now. 
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From RNDAVAR at aol.com  Tue Nov 25 11:43:12 2008
From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:43:12 EST
Subject: [Dialogue] New Social Network for the Synagogue Without Walls!
Message-ID: <cee.4998c0e3.365d9330@aol.com>

Shalom!
 
I have for quite some time wanted to create a cyber community. One of the  
things that many of us have felt is a sense of loneliness. Remember that this is 
 the first thing that God says is "Not Good". People that begin to search for 
God  with all of their heart find that they no longer fit in with various 
mainstream  denominations and so quite often end up "dwelling alone". The sheep 
are  scattered and the role of the shepherds becomes a bit more challenging.
 
In the modern age in which we live, there are tools out there to help bring  
people together. For this reason I have felt inspired to find ways to gather / 
 assemble people in non-traditional ways. I am fortunate to have a building 
to  teach from and talented, loving people around me that desire to invite you 
into  our humble community. Not everyone has this and so we want to create 
this for  you in new and meaningful ways.
 
I have been, thanks to Brian, able to communicate my weekly teachings  to the 
world via the web. We are currently looking for ways to enhance this  
experience through video for those that desire to "see" as well as "hear" the  
teachings. No matter what else we do in terms of publishing the teachings I want  to 
continue to post the teachings as podcasts. Last week was the first attempt  
to broadcast the Sunday Shul program in video format through 
_www.mogulus.com/rootsoffaith_ (http://www.mogulus.com/rootsoffaith) . We  had good reviews and 
I would call this a success (despite our cheap Wal-Mart  camera:) We hope to 
be able to purchase a better camera very soon.
 
We have the dialogue list which allows me to send this note to nearly 60  
people now, and a mailing list that allows me to reach nearly 300 people at one  
time.
 
I am convinced that these are just the beginnings of great things. I have a  
burden to find ways to make all of you feel like you are part of our  family. 
I certainly feel that we are family. This is the Abrahamic Plan. We are  to 
become a family of faith - brothers and sisters in the quest.
 
During the summer I found a site that allows groups to network together  
based upon common interests. Most of you are familiar with similar sites such as  
MySpace and Facebook. This particular site (ning.com)allows you to set up a  
personal network that allows members to engage in live chat, set up personal  
pages (you can load a picture of yourself so we get to know each other better), 
 I can post upcoming events, there is a forum, members can message each 
other. It  is quite incredible. I am not that familiar with all of its features 
yet, but I  like what I see so far. I just realized that we can upload music. As 
soon as I  have time I will be adding some of the music from the local 
musicians (Glenn and  Rhonda, Sherry Cole, Tammy Michael, John Carlson) and I hope 
that others join as  well (Terry?, David and Patty) and do the same. I was going 
to send an invite to  the list from the web site, but wanted you all to know 
a little more about it  before I did so.
 
I may need to change some settings as we try this out, so please be  patient. 
I want this to belong to all of us and so need your feedback. This will  not 
replace anything that we already have, but should compliment our existing  
efforts.
 
So consider this an invitation to join the "Synagogue Without Walls" social  
network. I think that you will find the site user friendly and I think that 
this  will be fun.  If it does not serve a good purpose, we can simply keep  
looking, but I want to give it a try.  I already have two members (James  and 
Dave Cole).
 
Go to _http://cybersynagogue.ning.com/_ (http://cybersynagogue.ning.com/)  
and  see what you think. You may need to join to look around. I am not sure. 
There is  no cost for this and I hope that some of you join. I already added an  
event.  On December 21st we will be lighting the first candle of Chanukkah.  I 
will also be teaching on the meaning of the day (Kislev 24).
 
I am excited about serving you in this way - Shalom, Ross
 
Ross K.  Nichols 
_www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) 


**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, 
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com 
today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp
%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)
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From mhyde7 at tds.net  Tue Nov 25 19:48:35 2008
From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:48:35 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Check this out.
In-Reply-To: <165714078-1227620497-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-750441145-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <112520080622.15796.492B99AA000A0C9500003DB422216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net><003301c94eef$89a67e70$0400a8c0@marvin>
	<165714078-1227620497-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-750441145-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <006a01c94f69$18bdebb0$0400a8c0@marvin>

No wonder I could not understand the words...

-----Original Message-----
From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of
carlson_john at bellsouth.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 8:38 AM
To: Dialogue
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Check this out.

Don't know what the words say, he's Swedish.  Nothing to get, the song and
the video are just beautiful to me, thought I'd share it.

John C.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "mhyde" <mhyde7 at tds.net>

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 06:18:24 
To: <dialogue at rootsoffaith.org>
Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Check this out.


_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________



From carlson_john at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov 25 20:08:09 2008
From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:08:09 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] Check this out.
Message-ID: <1272163510-1227665354-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1533554586-@bxe010.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>


;-{)}

Shalom

John C.

------Original Message------
From: mhyde
Sender: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
To: Dialogue
ReplyTo: Dialogue
Sent: Nov 25, 2008 7:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Check this out.

No wonder I could not understand the words...

-----Original Message-----
From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of
carlson_john at bellsouth.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 8:38 AM
To: Dialogue
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Check this out.

Don't know what the words say, he's Swedish.  Nothing to get, the song and
the video are just beautiful to me, thought I'd share it.

John C.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "mhyde" <mhyde7 at tds.net>

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 06:18:24 
To: <dialogue at rootsoffaith.org>
Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Check this out.


_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________


Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov 26 07:06:56 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:06:56 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] 
 Rabbi__Yossi_Mizrachi__Moshiach_-_Resurrection_of_the_Dead__2008-07-03.wmv
 (video/x-ms-wmv Object)
Message-ID: <492D49F0.9070405@westnet.com.au>

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 26 09:03:45 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:03:45 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue]
	Rabbi__Yossi_Mizrachi__Moshiach_-_Resurrection_of_the_Dead__2008-07-03.wmv
	(video/x-ms-wmv Object)
In-Reply-To: <492D49F0.9070405@westnet.com.au>
References: <492D49F0.9070405@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS5EBDABA88832B91D5ADF8BA0A0@phx.gbl>

This was so worth the time, Joe.  Thank you for sharing it with us.  It's so amazing to see that the things written almost 2,000 years ago about a then unheard of set of conditions is here today!  We actually see these things with our own eyes!

Baruch HaShem for the teachings of Rabbi Mizrachi!

Pat


From: JOE INDOMENICO 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:06 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi__Yossi_Mizrachi__Moshiach_-_Resurrection_of_the_Dead__2008-07-03.wmv (video/x-ms-wmv Object)


Shalom Chaverim,

many think that the Jews do not adhere to the Christian New Testament , which is true to most extent.
Many Christians will condescend the Jews for their adherence to the Oral Torah , the Talmud and the Gemarra.

Please listen to the words of Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi and his explanation of what the Gemarra(written almost 2000years ago) says regarding the arrival of Mashiach. I will leave the outcome to your own conclusions.

Aside from the comical and sarcastic analogies that the Rabbi makes in true Israeli style, his message is extremely biting and serious. 

Shalom v'Ahavah,
JOE.
http://divineinformation.com/downloads/Rabbi__Yossi_Mizrachi__Moshiach_-_Resurrection_of_the_Dead__2008-07-03.wmv 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net  Wed Nov 26 10:55:33 2008
From: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net (Helen Lusk)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:55:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Dialogue]
	Rabbi__Yossi_Mizrachi__Moshiach_-_Resurrection_of_the_Dead__2008-07-03.wmv
	(video/x-ms-wmv Object)
In-Reply-To: <BLU125-DS5EBDABA88832B91D5ADF8BA0A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <465168.66316.qm@web82508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks for sending this on,Joe. Rabbi Yossi Mizrachi speaks out in a clear way. I detected a sadness in him behind his light and amusing analogies.
?
Shalom and Happy Thanksgiving to all!
?
Helen

--- On Wed, 11/26/08, Pat Robbins <patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Pat Robbins <patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Rabbi__Yossi_Mizrachi__Moshiach_-_Resurrection_of_the_Dead__2008-07-03.wmv (video/x-ms-wmv Object)
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 10:03 AM



This was so worth the time, Joe.? Thank you for sharing it with us.? It's so amazing to see that the things written almost 2,000 years ago?about a then unheard of set of conditions is here today!? We actually see these things with our own eyes!
?
Baruch HaShem for the?teachings of Rabbi Mizrachi!
?
Pat




From: JOE INDOMENICO 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:06 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] Rabbi__Yossi_Mizrachi__Moshiach_-_Resurrection_of_the_Dead__2008-07-03.wmv (video/x-ms-wmv Object)

Shalom Chaverim,

many think that the Jews do not adhere to the Christian New Testament , which is true to most extent.
Many Christians will condescend the Jews for their adherence to the Oral Torah , the Talmud and the Gemarra.

Please listen to the words of Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi and his explanation of what the Gemarra(written almost 2000years ago) says regarding the arrival of Mashiach. I will leave the outcome to your own conclusions.

Aside from the comical and sarcastic analogies that the Rabbi makes in true Israeli style, his message is extremely biting and serious. 

Shalom v'Ahavah,
JOE.
http://divineinformation.com/downloads/Rabbi__Yossi_Mizrachi__Moshiach_-_Resurrection_of_the_Dead__2008-07-03.wmv 



_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Wed Nov 26 16:27:06 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 08:27:06 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] THANKSGIVING.
Message-ID: <492DCD3A.90106@westnet.com.au>

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From RNDAVAR at aol.com  Wed Nov 26 17:28:39 2008
From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:28:39 EST
Subject: [Dialogue] Synagogue Without Walls
Message-ID: <d05.47bf1e71.365f35a7@aol.com>

If you have not checked out the new "Synagogue Without Walls" site out, I  
encourage you to do so.  Even if you do not join up, you should look  around. 
People are beginning to personalize their own "space" and it is looking  like 
this might prove to be a nice way to get to know others.
 
I loaded some fantastic music on the main page. All of the songs are by the  
local members of Roots of Faith. Go to _www.cybersynagogue.ning.com_ 
(http://www.cybersynagogue.ning.com)  and  check it out!
 
Shalom, Ross
 
Ross K.  Nichols 
_www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) 


**************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW 
AOL.com. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002)
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Thu Nov 27 04:03:12 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:03:12 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Terrorists Attack on Chabad House!
Message-ID: <492E7060.6090504@westnet.com.au>

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 27 10:53:18 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:53:18 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Terrorists Attack on Chabad House!
In-Reply-To: <492E7060.6090504@westnet.com.au>
References: <492E7060.6090504@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS53D12DDA5C7BA09DE75D0BA050@phx.gbl>

Thank you so much for this, Joe.  I too am sensing this descent of darkness, but in my spirit, I keep hearing the words:  "Let G-d arise, let His enemies be scattered....."  Psalm 68   May we see His glorious arising.  May those held captive in the Chabad House of India be released, and live to lead us in praising our Father for His tender mercies.  

Pat

  


From: JOE INDOMENICO 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:03 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Terrorists Attack on Chabad House!


Shalom Chaverim,

as many of you are waking up for Thanksgiving day, the shocking news of the Islamic terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India are filling the news bulletins around the world.

Many western nationals including Americans, Australians, Italians are amongst the 100 plus  killed and many more hundreds injured. I am sure that we will hear very much about these.

However I doubt very much whether you will hear about the attack on the Chabad House with its dead, injured and hostages taken.

I pray for the souls of the departed, the recovery of the injured , the well being and release of the hostages and stern justice for the callous perpetrators of this heinous crime.

May HaShem have mercy on the innocent and avenge their blood against these cut throats.

I sense a very foreboding spirit descending upon humanity.

Shalom v'Ahavah,
JOE.
http://mysticalpaths.blogspot.com/2008/11/terrorists-attack-on-chabad-house.html 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com  Thu Nov 27 13:22:10 2008
From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:22:10 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] A duty of the First Contingent: Thanksgiving for the
	Tribes
Message-ID: <200811271922.mARJM6A3010938@mail383c25.carrierzone.com>

Dear Friends of the Dialogue List and fellow members of the First Contingent,

Today is a unique holiday among the nations, Thanksgiving will be 
celebrated in the United States.  Manassite Pilgrims in 1621 laid it 
as a most important stone into the foundation of the land and 
government of Menashe at the "coasts and extremities of the world." 
Doing so, they set the direction of this country to be one based on a 
covenant that would be instrumental in the fulfillment of the 
birthright blessings upon Joseph. George Washington in 1789, at the 
unanimous request of the House and the Senate, proclaimed a National 
Day of Thanksgiving, affixing the tradition of the "giving of thanks" 
into the fabric of the government of the United States.  In 1863 
during the terrible Civil War that threatened the Land of Menashe 
with disintegration, President Abraham Lincoln, a mashiach sent to 
save the Union at all costs, affirmed and strengthened Thanksgiving 
as a national tradition. He asked Americans to "give thanks with one 
heart and one voice," and also made it a time and a way to entreat 
our Heavenly Father for mercy because of "our national perverseness 
and disobedience," 
(>http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/thanks.htm 
<).    Before that time and afterwards,  presidents have issued 
Thanksgiving proclamations to give thanks for the blessings we 
enjoy.  They affirmed Thanksgiving as a sign of who we are as a 
people.  The role this day of remembrance has played in our history 
is surely an important factor in assuring us the continued 
realization of the blessings upon the progeny of Abraham, Isaac and 
Jacob, and particularly Yosef.

For millennia the secrets of our identities and whereabouts as the 
people of "the lost Ten Tribes" have been hidden from ourselves and 
the world. We do not know exactly why G-d has chosen some of us now, 
to be awakened early before the great masses, and make us part of the 
early contingent to arise from the Valley of Dry Bones of the 
spiritually dead, (Ez. 37).  However, we can be sure that we are the 
servants of G-d if we have been called to wake up early, (Isa. 
48:3).  We do know that our identities as part of the Ten Tribes are 
being revealed to us, that we may confess our sins and return to the 
Covenant. Centuries ago, the sages of Yehudah have concluded from 
studying the prophets that those who are the farthest away from the 
Covenant will be called to come home first.  As such, we who are now 
awakened to our identities, and are studying the Prophets' 
injunctions to us in the latter days, are to realize that we are part 
of the "early contingent" to arise from the Valley of Dry 
Bones.  Therefore we have a responsibility to offer "offerings of 
thanks " to the Holy One of Israel, on behalf of ourselves as well as 
on behalf of the "whole House of Israel"  for we are the first ones 
touched by the work of EliY-h who is doing the prophesied 
ingathering. 
(>http://www.uniteourheart.com/Foundation-Articles/The-Message-of-Elijah.html<). 
Could it be that we are to do this task of "standing in" for the rest 
of the congregation of Israel as they wake up?.... Are we to be the 
representatives and messengers of the rest of the congregation of 
Israel, whose identities are still hidden, even to themselves?.  Are 
we to be the reconnaissance men who are at this time to go ahead into 
G-d's promises and bring back a good report for the masses who are to 
awaken later?  Are we given the opportunity to speed up the 
Redemption with our work of "standing in" for our brothers?.... 
(>http://www.uniteourheart.com/Prayer-Projects/Standing-In.html<). 
If we have been called "to wake up early," and to get out of 
Babylon  (Isa. 48:20), does that mean that The Redemption has started 
already?... Are we the first ones of "the resurrection of the 
(spiritually) dead?"... If so, we a have a job, and our first duty is 
to be thankful for such a calling to the One who tells us: "and all 
flesh shall know that I the L-RD am your Saviour and your Redeemer, 
the mighty One of Jacob."  (Isa. 49:26).

Jacob tells us "gather yourselves together in the last days," (Gen. 
49:1-2). Though we cannot all meet together at this time, we are able 
to send our thanks-giving prayers aloft in a united way this 
Thanksgiving Day. The United States is not the only Israelitish 
country that has giving of thanks woven into its heritage. Others 
also have a tradition for it, though on different days.  We ask all 
those to join us in prayer on the thanksgiving Day of the last of 
Joseph's descendants' strength.  It is a unique opportunity for all 
of us, a truly unique group of people, (those in the greater 
Awakening of the Ten Tribes Movement, to give thanks in a unique way 
on Menashe's Thanksgiving Day.  We will be able to do so, "with one 
heart and one voice" as a unique group, "the first contingent to 
arise from the Valley of Dry Bones."  We will be united if we "stand 
in" for our brothers and ask for forgiveness for "the perverseness 
and disobedience" of our peoples as a whole.  We will be united if we 
give thanks for our calling as individual members of the First 
Contingent group.  Hoshea tells Ephraim to "take words" with which to 
approach the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob at the time of their 
return, (>http://www.uniteourheart.com/Prayer/take-Words.html<). Let 
us wholeheartedly take words of thanks-giving and supplication before 
the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for having been chosen to begin 
to understand our identity, and for the chance to "stand in" for our 
peoples.  Let us entreat Him for continued guidance by His holy 
Spirit for our nation/s, and for our calling to be in the "First 
Contingent" to be called home to the Torah from the Valley of Dry 
Bones.  Let us give thanks for our unique calling and do the work 
meted out for us NOW.  Let us build the Mishkan of Prayers for the 
Guidance of our people on our journey of return, (Isa. 
48:21, >http://www.uniteourheart.com/Foundation-Articles/Mishkan.html< 
).  Let's begin NOW!  "Let us all enter His gates with 
thanks-giving"  as we are entering the "last days" in which we are 
priviliged to live."

"And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving, and the voice of them 
that make merry, and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few, 
I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small." (Jer. 30:19).

Yours for the Restoration of ALL Israel,

Steve Mathe

"Only Torah, prayer and repentance will unify Israel.

http://www.uniteourheart.com

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 27 13:46:12 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 14:46:12 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] A duty of the First Contingent: Thanksgiving for
	theTribes
In-Reply-To: <200811271922.mARJM6A3010938@mail383c25.carrierzone.com>
References: <200811271922.mARJM6A3010938@mail383c25.carrierzone.com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS36081F03C16D453A9101FBA050@phx.gbl>

AMEN!!!!!    May our voices of thanksgiving for His long-awaited Ingathering be heard on high, and may our hearts be so filled with rejoicing over this that He will greatly multiply our numbers so that we will not be small, according to Jer. 30:19!

Thank you, Steve, from a grateful First Contingent!!!!!


From: Steve Mathe 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 2:22 PM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] A duty of the First Contingent: Thanksgiving for theTribes


Dear Friends of the Dialogue List and fellow members of the First Contingent

Today is a unique holiday among the nations, Thanksgiving will be celebrated in the United States.  Manassite Pilgrims in 1621 laid it as a most important stone into the foundation of the land and government of Menashe at the "coasts and extremities of the world." Doing so, they set the direction of this country to be one based on a covenant that would be instrumental in the fulfillment of the birthright blessings upon Joseph. George Washington in 1789, at the unanimous request of the House and the Senate, proclaimed a National Day of Thanksgiving, affixing the tradition of the "giving of thanks" into the fabric of the government of the United States.  In 1863 during the terrible Civil War that threatened the Land of Menashe with disintegration, President Abraham Lincoln, a mashiach sent to save the Union at all costs, affirmed and strengthened Thanksgiving as a national tradition. He asked Americans to "give thanks with one heart and one voice," and also made it a time and a way to entreat our Heavenly Father for mercy because of "our national perverseness and disobedience," (> http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/thanks.htm <).    Before that time and afterwards,  presidents have issued Thanksgiving proclamations to give thanks for the blessings we enjoy.  They affirmed Thanksgiving as a sign of who we are as a people.  The role this day of remembrance has played in our history is surely an important factor in assuring us the continued realization of the blessings upon the progeny of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and particularly Yosef.  

For millennia the secrets of our identities and whereabouts as the people of "the lost Ten Tribes" have been hidden from ourselves and the world. We do not know exactly why G-d has chosen some of us now, to be awakened early before the great masses, and make us part of the early contingent to arise from the Valley of Dry Bones of the spiritually dead, (Ez. 37).  However, we can be sure that we are the servants of G-d if we have been called to wake up early, (Isa. 48:3).  We do know that our identities as part of the Ten Tribes are being revealed to us, that we may confess our sins and return to the Covenant. Centuries ago, the sages of Yehudah have concluded from studying the prophets that those who are the farthest away from the Covenant will be called to come home first.  As such, we who are now awakened to our identities, and are studying the Prophets' injunctions to us in the latter days, are to realize that we are part of the "early contingent" to arise from the Valley of Dry Bones.  Therefore we have a responsibility to offer "offerings of thanks " to the Holy One of Israel, on behalf of ourselves as well as on behalf of the "whole House of Israel"  for we are the first ones touched by the work of EliY-h who is doing the prophesied ingathering. (> http://www.uniteourheart.com/Foundation-Articles/The-Message-of-Elijah.html< ).  Could it be that we are to do this task of "standing in" for the rest of the congregation of Israel as they wake up?.... Are we to be the representatives and messengers of the rest of the congregation of Israel, whose identities are still hidden, even to themselves?.  Are we to be the reconnaissance men who are at this time to go ahead into G-d's promises and bring back a good report for the masses who are to awaken later?  Are we given the opportunity to speed up the Redemption with our work of "standing in" for our brothers?.... (> http://www.uniteourheart.com/Prayer-Projects/Standing-In.html <).  If we have been called "to wake up early," and to get out of Babylon  (Isa. 48:20), does that mean that The Redemption has started already?... Are we the first ones of "the resurrection of the (spiritually) dead?"... If so, we a have a job, and our first duty is to be thankful for such a calling to the One who tells us: "and all flesh shall know that I the L-RD am your Saviour and your Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob."  (Isa. 49:26). 

Jacob tells us "gather yourselves together in the last days," (Gen. 49:1-2). Though we cannot all meet together at this time, we are able to send our thanks-giving prayers aloft in a united way this Thanksgiving Day. The United States is not the only Israelitish country that has giving of thanks woven into its heritage. Others also have a tradition for it, though on different days.  We ask all those to join us in prayer on the thanksgiving Day of the last of Joseph's descendants' strength.  It is a unique opportunity for all of us, a truly unique group of people, (those in the greater Awakening of the Ten Tribes Movement, to give thanks in a unique way on Menashe's Thanksgiving Day.  We will be able to do so, "with one heart and one voice" as a unique group, "the first contingent to arise from the Valley of Dry Bones."  We will be united if we "stand in" for our brothers and ask for forgiveness for "the perverseness and disobedience" of our peoples as a whole.  We will be united if we give thanks for our calling as individual members of the First Contingent group.  Hoshea tells Ephraim to "take words" with which to approach the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob at the time of their return, (> http://www.uniteourheart.com/Prayer/take-Words.html<). Let us wholeheartedly take words of thanks-giving and supplication before the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for having been chosen to begin to understand our identity, and for the chance to "stand in" for our peoples.  Let us entreat Him for continued guidance by His holy Spirit for our nation/s, and for our calling to be in the "First Contingent" to be called home to the Torah from the Valley of Dry Bones.  Let us give thanks for our unique calling and do the work meted out for us NOW.  Let us build the Mishkan of Prayers for the Guidance of our people on our journey of return, (Isa. 48:21, > http://www.uniteourheart.com/Foundation-Articles/Mishkan.html <).  Let's begin NOW!  "Let us all enter His gates with thanks-giving"  as we are entering the "last days" in which we are priviliged to live."  

"And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving, and the voice of them that make merry, and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few, I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small." (Jer. 30:19). 

Yours for the Restoration of ALL Israel, 

Steve Mathe

"Only Torah, prayer and repentance will unify Israel. 

http://www.uniteourheart.com




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From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com  Fri Nov 28 02:14:20 2008
From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:14:20 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] The Hostages in India and Psalm 124
Message-ID: <200811280817.mAS8H2tT010277@mail385c25.carrierzone.com>

Dear Friends of the Dialogue List,

I just prayed for the hostages at Mumbay and received the PR of Psalm 
124.  It is a PERFECT reflection of our prayers and concerns and 
shows that HaShem Tzevaot / the L-RD of Hosts hears our 
prayers.  Please use this Psalm for your own prayers and structure 
your own free-form prayers of your own words along the lines and 
principle of Psalm 124.

  I for one am not for superstitious recitations of Psalms and 
prayers but for using our own words to "talk" to G-d form our hearts 
as the words and concepts flow freely with the emotions of our 
hearts.  However, the Psalms have a hollowed place in the collective 
conciouness of our people and are impued with much inspiration form 
on High.  Therefore they can reflect the thoughts and feelings of our 
hearts in many situations.  Therefore they are perfect reflections of 
what we are meaning, even if our words do not exactly match these 
words in the Psalms.  The PR shows that g-d hears our prayers and 
reflects the feeling of our hearts beeter than we can express them 
with our own words.

May the L-RD of Hosts save and avenge us!!!

Steve 
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Fri Nov 28 02:49:49 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:49:49 +1000
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] The Hostages in India and Psalm 124]
Message-ID: <492FB0AD.6020903@westnet.com.au>

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Subject: [Dialogue] The Hostages in India and Psalm 124
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From youngbarzel at gmail.com  Fri Nov 28 07:53:29 2008
From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 05:53:29 -0800
Subject: [Dialogue] Update on Shomron (Samaria) from Hanoch
Message-ID: <855590370811280553l51c523c8w7baccba5ec472f5f@mail.gmail.com>

Shalom L'Kulchem (to all),

    Not surprisingly, many affiliated with this group are very interested in
the Shomron - Samaria, the ancestral home of the Northern Kingdom of Israel.

    Here's a brief video with a look at what's happening to build up the
Land.
Click here: Green Beyond the Line: Open A window to the
Shomron<http://yeshuv.blogspot.com/2008/09/open-window-to-shomron.html>

    Shabbat Shalom,
            Hanoch
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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 28 09:56:01 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:56:01 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Mumbai
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS272A15A74A3370D10D7C2BA040@phx.gbl>

So tragically sad................  The Chabad Rabbi, Rebbetzin and their two children are reported murdered in Mumbai.  They were targeted because of their Jewishness.  While I mourn all the innocent victims of Amalek's bloodlust, the Rabbi and his family are our family.

Pat
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From ptyler at aac-usa.com  Fri Nov 28 14:48:05 2008
From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty )
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:48:05 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders deal
In-Reply-To: <4923D1DC.1010205@westnet.com.au>
References: <4923D1DC.1010205@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <009f01c9519a$9fb4a7c0$df1df740$@com>

Shalom Joe and All,

 

I have decided to take a ?wait and see? stance on this issue ? while I am
very much opposed to Obama?s position on abortion, I think we should at
least wait and see what the guy does. It has become very difficult to
separate the rumors from the facts, and if I continue I shall surely go mad
J !!

 

Shabbat Shalom,

 

Patty

 

 

 

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of JOE INDOMENICO
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:44 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] FYI: Obama links Israel peace plan to 1967 borders
deal]

 

Shalom Patty,

very nice to have you back. A very warm welcome.

Thank you for posting this article on the"current peace proposal"tabled by
the Saudis. I do not know your stand on this. 
However I am disturbed by the comments that were made in the article :

On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately
it would be ?crazy? for Israel to refuse a deal that could ?give them peace
with the Muslim world?, according to a senior Obama adviser. 

The Arab peace plan received a boost last week when President Shimon Peres,
a Nobel peace laureate and leading Israeli dove, commended the initiative at
a Saudi-sponsored United Nations conference in New York. 

Peres was loudly applauded for telling King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who
was behind the original initiative: ?I wish that your voice will become the
prevailing voice of the whole region, of all people.?

It seems like ground hog day to me.

I would like to quote some excerpts from -New York Review of Books : Vol 49
No 10, June18 2002."Camp David and After" by Benny Morris.

The call from Bill Clinton came hours after the publication in The New York
Times of Deborah Sontag's "revisionist" article ("Quest for Middle East
Peace: How and Why It Failed," July 26, 2001) on the Israeli?Palestinian
peace process. Ehud Barak, Israel's former prime minister, on vacation, was
swimming in a cove in Sardinia. Clinton said (according to Barak): 

What the hell is this? Why is she turning the mistakes we [i.e., the US and
Israel] made into the essence? The true story of Camp David was that for the
first time in the history of the conflict the American president put on the
table a proposal, based on UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, very
close to the Palestinian demands, and Arafat refused even to accept it as a
basis for negotiations, walked out of the room, and deliberately turned to
terrorism. That's the real story?all the rest is gossip.

Clinton was speaking of the two-week-long July 2000 Camp David conference
that he had organized and mediated and its failure, and the eruption at the
end of September of the Palestinian intifada, or campaign of anti-Israeli
violence, which has continued ever since and which currently plagues the
Middle East, with no end in sight. Midway in the conference, apparently on
July 18, Clinton had "slowly"?to avoid misunderstanding?read out to Arafat a
document, endorsed in advance by Barak, outlining the main points of a
future settlement. The proposals included the establishment of a
demilitarized Palestinian state on some 92 percent of the West Bank and 100
percent of the Gaza Strip, with some territorial compensation for the
Palestinians from pre-1967 Israeli territory; the dismantling of most of the
settlements and the concentration of the bulk of the settlers inside the 8
percent of the West Bank to be annexed by Israel; the establishment of the
Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem, in which some Arab neighborhoods
would become sovereign Palestinian territory and others would enjoy
"functional autonomy"; Palestinian sovereignty over half the Old City of
Jerusalem (the Muslim and Christian quarters) and "custodianship," though
not sovereignty, over the Temple Mount; a return of refugees to the
prospective Palestinian state though with no "right of return" to Israel
proper; and the organization by the international community of a massive aid
program to facilitate the refugees' rehabilitation.

Arafat said "No." Clinton, enraged, banged on the table and said: "You are
leading your people and the region to a catastrophe." A formal Palestinian
rejection of the proposals reached the Americans the next day. The summit
sputtered on for a few days more but to all intents and purposes it was
over.

What they [Arafat and his colleagues] want is a Palestinian state in all of
Palestine. What we see as self-evident, [the need for] two states for two
peoples, they reject. Israel is too strong at the moment to defeat, so they
formally recognize it. But their game plan is to establish a Palestinian
state while always leaving an opening for further "legitimate" demands down
the road. For now, they are willing to agree to a temporary truce ? la
Hudnat Hudaybiyah [a temporary truce that the Prophet Muhammad concluded
with the leaders of Mecca during 628?629, which he subsequently unilaterally
violated]. They will exploit the tolerance and democracy of Israel first to
turn it into "a state for all its citizens," as demanded by the extreme
nationalist wing of Israel's Arabs and extremist left-wing Jewish Israelis.
Then they will push for a binational state and then, demography and
attrition will lead to a state with a Muslim majority and a Jewish minority.
This would not necessarily involve kicking out all the Jews. But it would
mean the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state. This, I believe, is their
vision. They may not talk about it often, openly, but this is their vision.
Arafat sees himself as a reborn Saladin?the Kurdish Muslim general who
defeated the Crusaders in the twelfth century?and Israel as just another,
ephemeral Crusader state.

Arafat, says Barak, believes that Israel "has no right to exist, and he
seeks its demise." Barak buttresses this by arguing that Arafat "does not
recognize the existence of a Jewish people or nation, only a Jewish
religion, because it is mentioned in the Koran and because he remembers
seeing, as a kid, Jews praying at the Wailing Wall." This, Barak believes,
underlay Arafat's insistence at Camp David (and since) that the Palestinians
have sole sovereignty over the Temple Mount compound (Haram al-Sharif?the
noble sanctuary) in the southeastern corner of Jerusalem's Old City. Arafat
denies that any Jewish temple has ever stood there?and this is a microcosm
of his denial of the Jews' historical connection and claim to the Land of
Israel/Palestine. Hence, in December 2000, Arafat refused to accept even the
vague formulation proposed by Clinton positing Israeli sovereignty over the
earth beneath the Temple Mount's surface area.

Barak recalls Clinton telling him that during the Camp David talks he had
attended Sunday services and the minister had preached a sermon mentioning
Solomon, the king who built the First Temple. Later that evening, he had met
Arafat and spoke of the sermon. Arafat had said: "There is nothing there
[i.e., no trace of a temple on the Temple Mount]." Clinton responded that
"not only the Jews but I, too, believe that under the surface there are
remains of Solomon's temple." (At this point one of Clinton's [Jewish] aides
whispered to the President that he should tell Arafat that this is his
personal opinion, not an official American position.)

Repeatedly during our prolonged interview, conducted in his office in a Tel
Aviv skyscraper, Barak shook his head?in bewilderment and sadness?at what he
regards as Palestinian, and especially Arafat's, mendacity:

They are products of a culture in which to tell a lie...creates no
dissonance. They don't suffer from the problem of telling lies that exists
in Judeo-Christian culture. Truth is seen as an irrelevant category. There
is only that which serves your purpose and that which doesn't. They see
themselves as emissaries of a national movement for whom everything is
permissible. There is no such thing as "the truth." 

For those who would like to read the article in its entirety  :
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/15501

The manipulation by the world media would have you believe that Israel is
not serious or capable in achieving a peaceful solution and it is only the
Saudis that are capable and everyone is lining up including Obama. 

The original proposal was tabled in 2000 at Camp David by Ehud Barak and
Clinton only to be rescinded with the shedding of innocent blood when the
second Intifada started in September 2000.

So a two state solution is a total contravention of HaShem's Holy Covenant
as spelled out in His Holy Torah.

It could be that the political shifting sands of World leaders including a
deluded left wing in Israel may be on the brink of formulating such madness.


I , for one believe that HaShem has already given us a clear message where
this will lead as already experienced in 2000.
He has been gracious enough to plainly show us the dark game plan of our
adversaries.
It is up to us to heed His Holy voice.

This is not a political or philosophical statement.

In light of the Lebanon War of 2006, can Israel defend herself without the
Shomron(West Bank), Gaza, the Golan, East Yerushalayim, ? The Arab world
with the support of the West would say no. Anyone that would question this
would be considered a fool. The katushah rain storm of 2006 was ample proof.

Then again HaShem loves the fools that dare stand up and declare His eternal
Word.

AM YISRAEL CHAI !!!!

Shalom v'Ahavah. I will try to behave P :-)
JOE.

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From RNDAVAR at aol.com  Sat Nov 29 06:31:23 2008
From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 07:31:23 EST
Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: On A Synagogue Without Walls: Rootsoffaith.net
Message-ID: <bf0.3e75d5aa.3662901b@aol.com>

See below.  If you have not yet signed up, consider doing so as this  is 
shaping up.  You do not have to sign up to check it out. The new address  for our 
synagogue without walls is _www.rootsoffaith.net_ 
(http://www.rootsoffaith.net) . I pray that you all  have a wonderful Shabbat.
 
Shalom, Ross
 
Ross K.  Nichols 
_www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) 


**************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW 
AOL.com. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002)
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sun Nov 30 05:24:31 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 21:24:31 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] MOYSHEL'E. YOU'RE AN ORPHAN.
Message-ID: <493277EF.6030101@westnet.com.au>

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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sun Nov 30 06:15:28 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 22:15:28 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.
Message-ID: <493283E0.3040708@westnet.com.au>

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 30 08:44:52 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:44:52 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] MOYSHEL'E. YOU'RE AN ORPHAN.
In-Reply-To: <493277EF.6030101@westnet.com.au>
References: <493277EF.6030101@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS678723AD38B46B013974ABA060@phx.gbl>

Joe, your words, "corrupt, dying and evil world," struck such a chord within me this morning.  May we realize, as we follow HaShem and His Holy Torah, that His Radiance is arising in this great darkness.  It is like we are on the verge of daybreak, when the whispy feathers of the rising sun are just beginning to show the promise of Light.  

G-d bless this small and helpless little one, comfort his precious, longing little heart, and grant him Your Shalom.  May we all remember his parents sacrifice, and strive to take up the torch they  so bravely held aloft.

Avigail


From: JOE INDOMENICO 
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 6:24 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] MOYSHEL'E. YOU'RE AN ORPHAN.


Shalom Chaverim,

with all the excitement of the new cyber website and the meeting of new friends , I would like to take some time out to remember the souls of the innocent that perished at the hands of wanton murderers in Mumbai, India.

Shabbat here with my Jewish friends was quite sombre. The issue of personal safety for the Jew no matter where he or she may be has once more reared its ugly head. This fact is now a reality that also faces all westerners. 

I would like to post an article by Rabbi Lazer Brody.


Sunday, 30 November 2008
Moyshel'e, You're an Orphan
 Moyshel'e Holtzberg (photo, left, AP via Jerusalem Post) keeps bleating like a little lamb, "Mommy" and "Totty." But Mommy and Totty - Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg and Rebbetzen Rivka - are no longer in the flesh, may Hashem avenge their sacred and martyred souls. The bitter word of their murder at the hands of bloodthirsty subhuman forces of darkness reached us in Israel as soon as we departed from the sacred Sabbath. Moyshel'e, with his irresistable belkalech (fleshy little cheeks) will soon celebrate his second birthday as an orphan.

Here is a list of Rabbi Gavriel's and Rebbetzin Rivka's "crimes":

* The gave up a cushy living in the West to live in the primitive and difficult conditions of India.

* They dedicated their lives to Jewish Outreach.

* They devoted 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to uplifting lost souls.

* They were Jewish.

* They were Lubavitcher Chassidim.

* They had American and Israeli passports.

People are already writing me and asking me what we can do to sanctify the memories of Rabbi Gavriel and Rebbetzen Rivka, may Hashem avenge their sacred and martyred souls. The answer is simple - continue their legacy. Do whatever you can for Jewish Outreach. If you're not Jewish, then spread the seven Noahide commandments. Send links to leading Jewish websites to all your friends, family, and acquaintances, especially those who haven't yet discovered the sweetness of emuna and a true and meaningful connection with Hashem. Help spread the word and hasten the full redemption of our people. This is the least we can do for the martyred Holtzbergs. 

Moyshel'e, you're an orphan. But when you grow up, you'll realize that your parents helped make this world a better place. They were brave front-line soldiers in the war for redemption. One thing I can promise you - thousands of Jewish Outreach activists will raise your parents' fallen torch. We won't rest until Moshiach comes and Hashem revives the dead as He promised. Soon, G-d willing, your parents will return to take you in their loving arms, amen.


Please dear chaverim do not lose focus as the veil of darkness descends upon the world. Let the light of revelation bring hope and warmth to a corrupt, dying and evil world.


The light of HaSHEM will help guide us home.


Shalom v'Ahavah,
JOE.






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From chattertonw at bellsouth.net  Sun Nov 30 09:38:19 2008
From: chattertonw at bellsouth.net (chattertonw at bellsouth.net)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 15:38:19 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.
In-Reply-To: <493283E0.3040708@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <113020081538.26616.4932B369000EBE60000067F822243651029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9902019B9D0A9B9B0E080C@att.net>

Thanks for this article, Joe. During our triennial Torah reading here in St. Francisville John Carlson hinted at some possible implications of the establishment of this system under Jethro's 'instruction' - this article brings several things into the mix that I will consider further.  Glenn
-------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>: -------------- 

Shalom Chaverim,

I would like to post an article that has been close to my heart for a long time. It was written by Rabbi Natan Weisz.
It radically changed my view on life and how I understood Torah. It challenged me to the very core in as much that it rammed home the message of Torah observance versus Torah belief. It blew away any cobwebs ,entrenched and encrusted Christian theology.

This is a theme that I will expand upon in due time.

Whilst it may not be the Parashat reading for this day, I maintain that the sin of the spies is still with us to this very day.
The Rabbis maintain that both temples were destroyed on account of this sin and that Mashiach is the only one capable of rectifying the final outcome.

Unfortunately this theme is in the spotlight once again as the issue of the "land and Yerushalyim" is on the agenda of the world powers and the Israeli elections.

I apologize for the length of the article. I encourage you all to persevere to the end of the article.  

May you all be blessed by this article.
 

How to Look for Holiness
by Rabbi Natan Weisz.

"These are the words that Moses spoke to all Israel, on the other side of the Jordan, in the wilderness, in the Arabah, opposite the Sea of Reeds, between Paran and Tofel, and Laban and Hazeroth, and Di-zahab; eleven days from Horeb, by way of Mount Seir to Kodesh-Barnea." (Deut. 1:1)
This description of the venue of Moses' speech cannot have been intended to guide us to the actual location - there is far too much confusing detail, and a lot of the places described are not even near each other.
For this reason, the rabbis interpreted this verse as being a description of the content of the speech itself rather than a description of its location; it informs us that Moses' speech contains a message of chastisement. In his final speech to them, Moses chastised the Jewish people and pointed out their shortcomings during the forty-year desert sojourn that was coming to its conclusion with his death. Each place mentioned in the verse refers to the venue of a transgression.
In the same breath, the Rabbis also stress that this was the only occasion that Moses ever chastised the entire Jewish nation as a group, and they cite several reasons for this. (See Rashi's commentary for the details.)
But there is something very perplexing about this interpretation. If he was indeed delivering the only speech of chastisement during his tenure as the leader of the Jews, Moses was addressing the wrong audience. Most of the sins and shortcomings he refers to in his speech - such as the sin of the Golden Calf, or the sin of the spies - were committed by people who had passed away in the desert. How can we relate to the idea of chastising a later generation for the sins committed by their parents or grandparents?
But this is not the strangest aspect of this speech of chastisement. On the surface, almost the entire Parsha is dedicated to the simple recounting the sin of the spies in all its detail and describing its aftermath without any apparent commentary. If this was a speech of chastisement, where are the words of chastisement? What is the point of recording the speech and omitting the chastisement?
* * *
NON-SEQUITUR
The answer is obviously that the chastisement is there to see if we search for it. If we delve beneath the surface a bit, we find that Moses made two major points. We can uncover the first of these points by analyzing what appears to be a glaring non-sequitur. (See Deut. 1:6-8.)
Following the introductory statement referred to, Moses begins his discourse by relating how God told the Jewish people to leave Mount Sinai; they had tarried there long enough and it was time to go and conquer the land. Right after this beginning, Moses makes an apparently bizarre digression that takes up ten full verses (Deut. 1:9-18). He describes the implementation of Jethro's advice (offered in Exodus 18:14-27) concerning the appointment of judges as a means of reducing his [Moses'] workload to manageable proportions. Then (ibid. 1:19) he returns once again to the theme of the conquest; the verses that follow describe the sending of the spies and the issuing of the edict against the Exodus generation that was its consequence.
What is the story of the appointment of the judges doing here? What connection does it have to the story of the spies?
* * *
THE LESSONS OF HISTORY
The maxim states; a wise man should always learn from history. Only a fool repeats mistakes that have already been committed and suffers needlessly thereby. This seems like good advice, but it is one of those bits of conventional wisdom that are difficult to apply in practice. History is easy to understand but difficult to interpret. The true causes of historical events are often quite obscure, and this makes the lessons of history difficult to decipher. The task is even more daunting if you subscribe to the prophetic view of history followed by Jewish tradition.
For example, historians offer many sound economic and social reasons for the rise of the Babylonian Empire. But the Jewish prophets take a different view. Jeremiah repeatedly refers to Nebuchadnezzar as God's agent of destruction. Prophetic theory attributes the rise of the Babylonian Empire to the need to create an agency that had the power to destroy the Temple and send the Jewish people into exile.
The emergence of a superpower was a pre-requisite of the destruction. No simple enemy raider could destroy the Temple. The Jewish people fought like lions displaying great courage and self-sacrifice to protect the physical symbol of their connection to God. Indeed, both Temples were destroyed by the superpowers of the time, which were compelled to dispatch enormous armies to accomplish the task and subdue Jewish resistance.
The major theme of Jeremiah's prophecies concerning the rise of Babylon is related to the destruction of the first Temple, but Jewish tradition advances the same theory concerning the rise of Rome and the destruction of the second Temple. The Talmud associates the rise of Rome with Solomon's marriage to Pharaoh's daughter, and to the establishment of idols by Jeroboam (Talmud, Shabbat, 56a).
* * *
JEWISH HISTORIC CAUSE
If the theories of Jewish tradition are accurate, Jewish sin is the true cause of all the enormous upheavals that took place in the ancient world. Jewish sin is the true cause of all the suffering caused by the exercise of the immense power of these great empires and is also responsible for the positive cultural effects of their existence on human history and culture. Rebellion against God by the Jewish people renders the continued existence of the Temple impossible and its destruction mandatory; this makes it mandatory to create an aggressive force with a sufficient concentration of power to carry out the task of destruction; the world ends up with imperialistic superpowers such as Babylon and Rome.
According to the theory, the economic and social factors that apparently led to the rise of these great powers would have been entirely ineffective in the absence of Jewish sin. It is clear that if we accept this view, we are forced to conclude that the secular historians who study these events and extract "scientific" principles that can be applied to related situations are barking up the wrong tree. The factors that secular historians interpret as causes of great historic movements are not causes at all. They are actually effects.
It follows that only the prophets can teach us the true lessons of history because it is only they who understand them. In a Divinely directed world only God's spokesmen are able to explain His actions in an authoritative way.
* * *
BACK TO THE NON-SEQUITUR
It is in this vein that we should regard Moses' apparent digression. Moses was not interested in merely retelling the story of the sin of the spies; he was interested in pointing out its underlying causes. If we accept the Torah view that Jewish sin is the underlying cause of all historic upheaval, then it makes sense to attempt to unravel the underlying causes of sin itself. Learning the causes of sin is the way to avoid repeating the mistakes of history. If you know the cause of sin you can learn to avoid sins in the future and avoid the upheavals they cause. This is the lesson that Moses wanted to teach the next generation. This is what needs to be corrected so we do not fall once again into the pit.
He was not addressing the wrong audience. He did not wish to merely chastise. He wanted to teach the Jewish people how to avoid the errors they committed during his tenure as leader. He called them all together to teach them the dynamics of history as they must be understood by Jews. To learn from the mistakes of the past you have to understand them first. His primary concern was the successful settlement of the land of Israel, the chief failure of his tenure as leader. It is understandable that the problem he focused on first in his final address was the sin of the spies, the main topic of the Parsha.
If we look at the 'digression' from this perspective, Moses was saying that the sin of the spies was caused by the same underlying factor as the failure to object to the loss of Moses' own direct leadership. For the Jewish people did not protest the setting up of the hierarchy of courts. They did not tell Moses, "Why are you telling us to hear the word of God second hand? You are our major link to God. If we insert layers of authority between you and ourselves, we are in effect distancing ourselves from God's word. We don't want it."
The definition of efficiency is to accomplish the same result more effectively. But as the object of Torah observance is to bring people closer to God, the implementation of a system that increases the distance between God and the Jewish people can hardly be termed efficient. The court system may function more efficiently but the Jewish system of justice is only a means to an end. The goal it is directed to reach, a greater closeness to God, would actually recede with the implementation of the hierarchy of courts.
* * *
REPEATING THE MISTAKE
This same mistaken attitude was responsible for the misunderstanding that led to the sin of the spies. The true object of the conquest of Israel and the attainment of a Jewish homeland is to enable the Jewish people to demonstrate to themselves and to the world that even everyday secular life can bring one to close to God when it is properly conducted. The attainment of holiness does not require the abandonment of ordinary existence in favor of a life of contemplation and asceticism. The path to holiness leads smack through the house, the farm and the factory.
The goal of Jewish nationalism must be to demonstrate that Jews can remain as close to God even as they occupy themselves with building and maintaining all the trappings associated with the modern secular state as they were when they were eating manna in the desert and were engrossed in full time Torah study. Moses himself makes this point later in his speech.
"Then I said to you: Do not be broken and do not fear them! The Lord your God, Who goes before you - He shall make war for you, like everything he did for you in Egypt, before your eyes. And in the wilderness, as you have seen, that the Lord your God bore you, as a man carries his son on the entire way that you traveled, until you arrived at this place..." (Ibid. 29-33)
The Jews obviously felt that life in the land of Israel would be fundamentally different than life in the desert. As long as they were in the desert, the fact that they were forced to rely on God to conduct their affairs miraculously did not cause them anxiety. They were up to living with miracles because they were leading very holy, unmaterialistic lives. But settled in Israel, living a secular life of comfort and materialism, they did not believe that it would be possible to maintain the same sort of spiritual intimacy with God. Secular life is inherently lacking in holiness. Israel was beyond their reach because they needed miracles to live in Israel and once they left the desert miracles would be beyond their reach.
Moses was countering their argument by teaching them that the entire point of their settling in Israel was the maintenance of the same relationship and intimacy with God they had in the desert in the midst of an outwardly secular life; the commandments of the Torah were designed specifically to enable them to do this. He was using the story of the appointment of the judges as a teaching aid. No gain in efficiency is worthwhile if you have to sacrifice your major goals in order to attain it.
The Covenant of Sinai was about establishing an intimate relation with God. The entry into Israel could not possibly jeopardize such intimacy otherwise it would never have been contemplated. Their parents weren't willing to listen to this message and he was pleading with them not to commit the same error. If they failed to realize and appreciate the goals of Jewish nationalism they were headed for disaster.
* * *
THE SECOND LESSON
The first lesson of Moses' speech concerns the factors behind the commitment of sin. If it is important not to repeat the mistakes of history, it is just as important to learn how to fix these mistakes in case they are committed once again. Moses' second lesson concerns the proper way to correct sins after they have been committed. A full account of how to remedy the failures of the desert generation must include a lesson about the proper way to repair the damage to the relationship with God in the unfortunate event that it has been allowed to occur. For the desert generation attempted to remedy their error:
"Then you spoke up and said to me, 'We have sinned to God! We shall go up and do battle according to everything that the Lord, our God, has commanded us!' Every man of you girded his weapons of war, and you were ready to ascend the mountain! God said to me: Tell them, 'Do not ascend and do not do battle, for I am not among you; so that you will not be struck down before your enemies.' So I spoke to you but you did not listen. You rebelled against the word of God and you were willful and climbed the mountain." (Ibid. 41-43)
The Ohr Hachaim asks: Why did God reject this act of collective repentance? Surely, by readying themselves to conquer the land once again the Jewish people demonstrated that they had remedied the defect of the lack of faith in God. Chastised by God's anger they returned to Moses fully ready and willing to gird their loins and go into battle. They had obviously overcome their fear of the nations of Canaan and renewed their faith in God. What did God find unacceptable about their repentance?
The key is in God's own words: "Do not ascend and do not do battle for I am not among you." For anyone whose interest in conquering the land of Israel is based on a true desire to enter into a state of intimacy with God, this Divine statement should have functioned as a bright red light. For God Himself was stating in the clearest terms 'that I am not among you'; there is no point to making the conquest now; the spiritual land of Israel is simply not there to be conquered under the circumstances. Even if the Jewish people could somehow acquire the physical Israel by the force of arms, in their present state of sin, living in Israel would not provide the means of establishing the state of intimacy with God that was the purpose of the whole enterprise.
The situation demanded true repentance first; obedience to the original command would no longer serve the purpose. God's chief concern was not the act of disobedience itself; the cause of His powerful reaction was the underlying reason behind the sin. He did not want the Jewish people in Israel unless they fully understood that the goal of their entry was to maintain the level of intimacy with God in the context of ordinary life that they enjoyed in the desert. As soon as God declared, "I am not among you," they should have abandoned every other project and focused on repairing the damage to the relationship with God. They focused on correcting their disobedience instead. Had they gone about repenting correctly, God's edict against them would surely have been revoked.
* * *
A FAULTY JUSTICE SYSTEM
We generally read this Torah portion on the Shabbat immediately preceding the 9th day of Av, the day of the anniversary of the commission of the sin of the 'shedding tears in vain' whose consequence was the issuance of the edict of death in the desert against the Exodus generation. The shedding of these vain tears caused the need to shed real tears through Jewish history. The 9th of Av is also the anniversary of the destruction of both Temples as well as many other major tragedies of Jewish history such as the expulsion of the Jews from Spain, from England, and the outbreak of the First World War.
The Haftorah reading is taken from Isaiah 1, a chapter that prophetically warns of the impending destruction of the first Temple. An examination of the details reveals that the Jewish people had not yet internalized the lessons of history that Moses had attempted to teach them. A reading of the Haftorah shows that the Jews of the period were diligently observing their duties toward God. They were offering the Temple sacrifices as proscribed, they were faithfully observing the tri-annual pilgrimage to the Temple, and they were being diligent in their prayers. Something else was missing, and it was this missing factor that caused the destruction:
"How the faithful city has become a harlot! She had been full of justice, righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers! Your silver has become dross, your heady wine diluted with water. Your princes are wayward and associates of thieves; the whole of them loves bribery and pursue illegal payments; for the orphan they do not do justice, the cause of the widow does not come unto them." (Isaiah 1:21-23)
The prophet brings us right back to Moses' non-sequitur. Once again it is a faulty justice system that is highlighted as the underlying cause of destruction. The Jewish justice system is the ultimate expression of the Jewish people's public attitude towards Torah observance. When the Jewish justice system reduces to no more than a method of settling disputes, it reflects an attitude towards the laws of the Torah that is similar to that of all law-abiding citizens observing any secular system. Torah law is like any other law. It must be observed in all particulars and all disputes must be settled according to its dictates. But this attitude misses the point of Torah law entirely.
The laws of the Torah were given to us as a means of attaching our everyday lives to God by investing life's mundane details with significance and holiness. The Jewish judicial system is intended to bring God's justice into the world and to reflect the workings of a society that conducts its business affairs in the light of holiness. When it takes no notice of the oppression of the widow and the orphan, when it tolerates bribery and corruption, it indicates that it is nothing more than the Jewish method of settling human disputes. A society that has such notions is fundamentally lacking in holiness; it does not require the land of Israel or God's Temple within it.
Jewish nationalism must be goal directed. Its aim can never be simply to live peacefully and securely within a Jewish secular state. It must be focused on the establishment of an intimate relationship between man and God, to teaching how you can live a normal life in this world and still be obviously God's holy people. The normal life patterns of everyday living in a Jewish state must be imbued with spirituality and reflect holiness. The aim of Jewish life is not the attainment of holiness through the performance of acts of devotion. The aim is not to step out of life into holiness; it is nothing short of the elevation of life itself.
Each generation of Jews has to grapple with the same spiritual problems, and must aim to attain the identical goals. God constantly readjusts the circumstances of the struggle to conform with the capacity and cultural orientation of the particular generation of Jews living at the time, but it is never the historic task that changes, only the circumstances under which it needs to be carried out. If ever any generation fully succeeded at the task of demonstrating the potential Godliness in everyday life, the aim of Jewish history would be attained and the Messiah would finally come.
The lessons of Moses apply to all Jews at all times. We must still correct our historic mistake. There cannot be a viable Jewish state in the Land of Israel that doesn't concern itself with connecting the secular trappings of statehood to God. In whatever fashion appropriate to the times, God must be at the center of the picture.

This is a lesson for all of us in our daily lives. 
It is not what we believe and study that counts but what we do in the service of HaShem as His faithful servants; bringing the Holy into every facet of our lives both spiritual and secular.
Torah without the land makes HaShem's Abrahamic Covenant null and void.

Shalom v'Ahavah,
JOE.
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From j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net  Sun Nov 30 12:10:11 2008
From: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net (Helen Lusk)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 10:10:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.
In-Reply-To: <493283E0.3040708@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <677490.17864.qm@web82502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thank you, Joe, for this article with the simple yet profound message to us that Hashem must be in every part of our daily lives. I do wonder though,being a person who loves efficiency,had the people protested and?won?against Jethro's advice to set up the hierarchy of judges, how it would have turned out. I continue to pray Thy Kingdom come,?Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
?
Shalom,
?
Helen


--- On Sun, 11/30/08, JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au> wrote:

From: JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>
Subject: [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 7:15 AM


Shalom Chaverim,

I would like to post an article that has been close to my heart for a long time. It was written by Rabbi Natan Weisz.
It radically changed my view on life and how I understood Torah. It challenged me to the very core in as much that it rammed home the message of Torah observance versus Torah belief. It blew away any cobwebs ,entrenched and encrusted Christian theology.

This is a theme that I will expand upon in due time.

Whilst it may not be the Parashat reading for this day, I maintain that the sin of the spies is still with us to this very day.
The Rabbis maintain that both temples were destroyed on account of this sin and that Mashiach is the only one capable of rectifying the final outcome.

Unfortunately this theme is in the spotlight once again as the issue of the "land and Yerushalyim" is on the agenda of the world powers and the Israeli elections.

I apologize for the length of the article. I encourage you all to persevere to the end of the article.? 

May you all be blessed by this article.
?






How to Look for Holinessby Rabbi Natan Weisz.



"These are the words that Moses spoke to all Israel, on the other side of the Jordan, in the wilderness, in the Arabah, opposite the Sea of Reeds, between Paran and Tofel, and Laban and Hazeroth, and Di-zahab; eleven days from Horeb, by way of Mount Seir to Kodesh-Barnea." (Deut. 1:1)
This description of the venue of Moses' speech cannot have been intended to guide us to the actual location - there is far too much confusing detail, and a lot of the places described are not even near each other.
For this reason, the rabbis interpreted this verse as being a description of the content of the speech itself rather than a description of its location; it informs us that Moses' speech contains a message of chastisement. In his final speech to them, Moses chastised the Jewish people and pointed out their shortcomings during the forty-year desert sojourn that was coming to its conclusion with his death. Each place mentioned in the verse refers to the venue of a transgression.
In the same breath, the Rabbis also stress that this was the only occasion that Moses ever chastised the entire Jewish nation as a group, and they cite several reasons for this. (See Rashi's commentary for the details.)
But there is something very perplexing about this interpretation. If he was indeed delivering the only speech of chastisement during his tenure as the leader of the Jews, Moses was addressing the wrong audience. Most of the sins and shortcomings he refers to in his speech - such as the sin of the Golden Calf, or the sin of the spies - were committed by people who had passed away in the desert. How can we relate to the idea of chastising a later generation for the sins committed by their parents or grandparents?
But this is not the strangest aspect of this speech of chastisement. On the surface, almost the entire Parsha is dedicated to the simple recounting the sin of the spies in all its detail and describing its aftermath without any apparent commentary. If this was a speech of chastisement, where are the words of chastisement? What is the point of recording the speech and omitting the chastisement?
* * *
NON-SEQUITUR
The answer is obviously that the chastisement is there to see if we search for it. If we delve beneath the surface a bit, we find that Moses made two major points. We can uncover the first of these points by analyzing what appears to be a glaring non-sequitur. (See Deut. 1:6-8.)
Following the introductory statement referred to, Moses begins his discourse by relating how God told the Jewish people to leave Mount Sinai; they had tarried there long enough and it was time to go and conquer the land. Right after this beginning, Moses makes an apparently bizarre digression that takes up ten full verses (Deut. 1:9-18). He describes the implementation of Jethro's advice (offered in Exodus 18:14-27) concerning the appointment of judges as a means of reducing his [Moses'] workload to manageable proportions. Then (ibid. 1:19) he returns once again to the theme of the conquest; the verses that follow describe the sending of the spies and the issuing of the edict against the Exodus generation that was its consequence.
What is the story of the appointment of the judges doing here? What connection does it have to the story of the spies?
* * *
THE LESSONS OF HISTORY
The maxim states; a wise man should always learn from history. Only a fool repeats mistakes that have already been committed and suffers needlessly thereby. This seems like good advice, but it is one of those bits of conventional wisdom that are difficult to apply in practice. History is easy to understand but difficult to interpret. The true causes of historical events are often quite obscure, and this makes the lessons of history difficult to decipher. The task is even more daunting if you subscribe to the prophetic view of history followed by Jewish tradition.
For example, historians offer many sound economic and social reasons for the rise of the Babylonian Empire. But the Jewish prophets take a different view. Jeremiah repeatedly refers to Nebuchadnezzar as God's agent of destruction. Prophetic theory attributes the rise of the Babylonian Empire to the need to create an agency that had the power to destroy the Temple and send the Jewish people into exile.
The emergence of a superpower was a pre-requisite of the destruction. No simple enemy raider could destroy the Temple. The Jewish people fought like lions displaying great courage and self-sacrifice to protect the physical symbol of their connection to God. Indeed, both Temples were destroyed by the superpowers of the time, which were compelled to dispatch enormous armies to accomplish the task and subdue Jewish resistance.
The major theme of Jeremiah's prophecies concerning the rise of Babylon is related to the destruction of the first Temple, but Jewish tradition advances the same theory concerning the rise of Rome and the destruction of the second Temple. The Talmud associates the rise of Rome with Solomon's marriage to Pharaoh's daughter, and to the establishment of idols by Jeroboam (Talmud, Shabbat, 56a).
* * *
JEWISH HISTORIC CAUSE
If the theories of Jewish tradition are accurate, Jewish sin is the true cause of all the enormous upheavals that took place in the ancient world. Jewish sin is the true cause of all the suffering caused by the exercise of the immense power of these great empires and is also responsible for the positive cultural effects of their existence on human history and culture. Rebellion against God by the Jewish people renders the continued existence of the Temple impossible and its destruction mandatory; this makes it mandatory to create an aggressive force with a sufficient concentration of power to carry out the task of destruction; the world ends up with imperialistic superpowers such as Babylon and Rome.
According to the theory, the economic and social factors that apparently led to the rise of these great powers would have been entirely ineffective in the absence of Jewish sin. It is clear that if we accept this view, we are forced to conclude that the secular historians who study these events and extract "scientific" principles that can be applied to related situations are barking up the wrong tree. The factors that secular historians interpret as causes of great historic movements are not causes at all. They are actually effects.
It follows that only the prophets can teach us the true lessons of history because it is only they who understand them. In a Divinely directed world only God's spokesmen are able to explain His actions in an authoritative way.
* * *
BACK TO THE NON-SEQUITUR
It is in this vein that we should regard Moses' apparent digression. Moses was not interested in merely retelling the story of the sin of the spies; he was interested in pointing out its underlying causes. If we accept the Torah view that Jewish sin is the underlying cause of all historic upheaval, then it makes sense to attempt to unravel the underlying causes of sin itself. Learning the causes of sin is the way to avoid repeating the mistakes of history. If you know the cause of sin you can learn to avoid sins in the future and avoid the upheavals they cause. This is the lesson that Moses wanted to teach the next generation. This is what needs to be corrected so we do not fall once again into the pit.
He was not addressing the wrong audience. He did not wish to merely chastise. He wanted to teach the Jewish people how to avoid the errors they committed during his tenure as leader. He called them all together to teach them the dynamics of history as they must be understood by Jews. To learn from the mistakes of the past you have to understand them first. His primary concern was the successful settlement of the land of Israel, the chief failure of his tenure as leader. It is understandable that the problem he focused on first in his final address was the sin of the spies, the main topic of the Parsha.
If we look at the 'digression' from this perspective, Moses was saying that the sin of the spies was caused by the same underlying factor as the failure to object to the loss of Moses' own direct leadership. For the Jewish people did not protest the setting up of the hierarchy of courts. They did not tell Moses, "Why are you telling us to hear the word of God second hand? You are our major link to God. If we insert layers of authority between you and ourselves, we are in effect distancing ourselves from God's word. We don't want it."
The definition of efficiency is to accomplish the same result more effectively. But as the object of Torah observance is to bring people closer to God, the implementation of a system that increases the distance between God and the Jewish people can hardly be termed efficient. The court system may function more efficiently but the Jewish system of justice is only a means to an end. The goal it is directed to reach, a greater closeness to God, would actually recede with the implementation of the hierarchy of courts.
* * *
REPEATING THE MISTAKE
This same mistaken attitude was responsible for the misunderstanding that led to the sin of the spies. The true object of the conquest of Israel and the attainment of a Jewish homeland is to enable the Jewish people to demonstrate to themselves and to the world that even everyday secular life can bring one to close to God when it is properly conducted. The attainment of holiness does not require the abandonment of ordinary existence in favor of a life of contemplation and asceticism. The path to holiness leads smack through the house, the farm and the factory.
The goal of Jewish nationalism must be to demonstrate that Jews can remain as close to God even as they occupy themselves with building and maintaining all the trappings associated with the modern secular state as they were when they were eating manna in the desert and were engrossed in full time Torah study. Moses himself makes this point later in his speech.

"Then I said to you: Do not be broken and do not fear them! The Lord your God, Who goes before you - He shall make war for you, like everything he did for you in Egypt, before your eyes. And in the wilderness, as you have seen, that the Lord your God bore you, as a man carries his son on the entire way that you traveled, until you arrived at this place..." (Ibid. 29-33)
The Jews obviously felt that life in the land of Israel would be fundamentally different than life in the desert. As long as they were in the desert, the fact that they were forced to rely on God to conduct their affairs miraculously did not cause them anxiety. They were up to living with miracles because they were leading very holy, unmaterialistic lives. But settled in Israel, living a secular life of comfort and materialism, they did not believe that it would be possible to maintain the same sort of spiritual intimacy with God. Secular life is inherently lacking in holiness. Israel was beyond their reach because they needed miracles to live in Israel and once they left the desert miracles would be beyond their reach.
Moses was countering their argument by teaching them that the entire point of their settling in Israel was the maintenance of the same relationship and intimacy with God they had in the desert in the midst of an outwardly secular life; the commandments of the Torah were designed specifically to enable them to do this. He was using the story of the appointment of the judges as a teaching aid. No gain in efficiency is worthwhile if you have to sacrifice your major goals in order to attain it.
The Covenant of Sinai was about establishing an intimate relation with God. The entry into Israel could not possibly jeopardize such intimacy otherwise it would never have been contemplated. Their parents weren't willing to listen to this message and he was pleading with them not to commit the same error. If they failed to realize and appreciate the goals of Jewish nationalism they were headed for disaster.
* * *
THE SECOND LESSON
The first lesson of Moses' speech concerns the factors behind the commitment of sin. If it is important not to repeat the mistakes of history, it is just as important to learn how to fix these mistakes in case they are committed once again. Moses' second lesson concerns the proper way to correct sins after they have been committed. A full account of how to remedy the failures of the desert generation must include a lesson about the proper way to repair the damage to the relationship with God in the unfortunate event that it has been allowed to occur. For the desert generation attempted to remedy their error:

"Then you spoke up and said to me, 'We have sinned to God! We shall go up and do battle according to everything that the Lord, our God, has commanded us!' Every man of you girded his weapons of war, and you were ready to ascend the mountain! God said to me: Tell them, 'Do not ascend and do not do battle, for I am not among you; so that you will not be struck down before your enemies.' So I spoke to you but you did not listen. You rebelled against the word of God and you were willful and climbed the mountain." (Ibid. 41-43)
The Ohr Hachaim asks: Why did God reject this act of collective repentance? Surely, by readying themselves to conquer the land once again the Jewish people demonstrated that they had remedied the defect of the lack of faith in God. Chastised by God's anger they returned to Moses fully ready and willing to gird their loins and go into battle. They had obviously overcome their fear of the nations of Canaan and renewed their faith in God. What did God find unacceptable about their repentance?
The key is in God's own words: "Do not ascend and do not do battle for I am not among you." For anyone whose interest in conquering the land of Israel is based on a true desire to enter into a state of intimacy with God, this Divine statement should have functioned as a bright red light. For God Himself was stating in the clearest terms 'that I am not among you'; there is no point to making the conquest now; the spiritual land of Israel is simply not there to be conquered under the circumstances. Even if the Jewish people could somehow acquire the physical Israel by the force of arms, in their present state of sin, living in Israel would not provide the means of establishing the state of intimacy with God that was the purpose of the whole enterprise.
The situation demanded true repentance first; obedience to the original command would no longer serve the purpose. God's chief concern was not the act of disobedience itself; the cause of His powerful reaction was the underlying reason behind the sin. He did not want the Jewish people in Israel unless they fully understood that the goal of their entry was to maintain the level of intimacy with God in the context of ordinary life that they enjoyed in the desert. As soon as God declared, "I am not among you," they should have abandoned every other project and focused on repairing the damage to the relationship with God. They focused on correcting their disobedience instead. Had they gone about repenting correctly, God's edict against them would surely have been revoked.
* * *
A FAULTY JUSTICE SYSTEM
We generally read this Torah portion on the Shabbat immediately preceding the 9th day of Av, the day of the anniversary of the commission of the sin of the 'shedding tears in vain' whose consequence was the issuance of the edict of death in the desert against the Exodus generation. The shedding of these vain tears caused the need to shed real tears through Jewish history. The 9th of Av is also the anniversary of the destruction of both Temples as well as many other major tragedies of Jewish history such as the expulsion of the Jews from Spain, from England, and the outbreak of the First World War.
The Haftorah reading is taken from Isaiah 1, a chapter that prophetically warns of the impending destruction of the first Temple. An examination of the details reveals that the Jewish people had not yet internalized the lessons of history that Moses had attempted to teach them. A reading of the Haftorah shows that the Jews of the period were diligently observing their duties toward God. They were offering the Temple sacrifices as proscribed, they were faithfully observing the tri-annual pilgrimage to the Temple, and they were being diligent in their prayers. Something else was missing, and it was this missing factor that caused the destruction:

"How the faithful city has become a harlot! She had been full of justice, righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers! Your silver has become dross, your heady wine diluted with water. Your princes are wayward and associates of thieves; the whole of them loves bribery and pursue illegal payments; for the orphan they do not do justice, the cause of the widow does not come unto them." (Isaiah 1:21-23)
The prophet brings us right back to Moses' non-sequitur. Once again it is a faulty justice system that is highlighted as the underlying cause of destruction. The Jewish justice system is the ultimate expression of the Jewish people's public attitude towards Torah observance. When the Jewish justice system reduces to no more than a method of settling disputes, it reflects an attitude towards the laws of the Torah that is similar to that of all law-abiding citizens observing any secular system. Torah law is like any other law. It must be observed in all particulars and all disputes must be settled according to its dictates. But this attitude misses the point of Torah law entirely.
The laws of the Torah were given to us as a means of attaching our everyday lives to God by investing life's mundane details with significance and holiness. The Jewish judicial system is intended to bring God's justice into the world and to reflect the workings of a society that conducts its business affairs in the light of holiness. When it takes no notice of the oppression of the widow and the orphan, when it tolerates bribery and corruption, it indicates that it is nothing more than the Jewish method of settling human disputes. A society that has such notions is fundamentally lacking in holiness; it does not require the land of Israel or God's Temple within it.
Jewish nationalism must be goal directed. Its aim can never be simply to live peacefully and securely within a Jewish secular state. It must be focused on the establishment of an intimate relationship between man and God, to teaching how you can live a normal life in this world and still be obviously God's holy people. The normal life patterns of everyday living in a Jewish state must be imbued with spirituality and reflect holiness. The aim of Jewish life is not the attainment of holiness through the performance of acts of devotion. The aim is not to step out of life into holiness; it is nothing short of the elevation of life itself.
Each generation of Jews has to grapple with the same spiritual problems, and must aim to attain the identical goals. God constantly readjusts the circumstances of the struggle to conform with the capacity and cultural orientation of the particular generation of Jews living at the time, but it is never the historic task that changes, only the circumstances under which it needs to be carried out. If ever any generation fully succeeded at the task of demonstrating the potential Godliness in everyday life, the aim of Jewish history would be attained and the Messiah would finally come.
The lessons of Moses apply to all Jews at all times. We must still correct our historic mistake. There cannot be a viable Jewish state in the Land of Israel that doesn't concern itself with connecting the secular trappings of statehood to God. In whatever fashion appropriate to the times, God must be at the center of the picture.

This is a lesson for all of us in our daily lives. 
It is not what we believe and study that counts but what we do in the service of HaShem as His faithful servants; bringing the Holy into every facet of our lives both spiritual and secular.
Torah without the land makes HaShem's Abrahamic Covenant null and void.

Shalom v'Ahavah,
JOE.
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From jid at westnet.com.au  Sun Nov 30 14:35:15 2008
From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 06:35:15 +1000
Subject: [Dialogue] Mumbai Memorial.
Message-ID: <4932F903.6080105@westnet.com.au>

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 30 14:44:14 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 15:44:14 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.
In-Reply-To: <677490.17864.qm@web82502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <677490.17864.qm@web82502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS28BC1DE006C4D3CA0672EBA060@phx.gbl>

Yes, same here, Helen:  Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.


From: Helen Lusk 
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 1:10 PM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.


      Thank you, Joe, for this article with the simple yet profound message to us that Hashem must be in every part of our daily lives. I do wonder though,being a person who loves efficiency,had the people protested and won against Jethro's advice to set up the hierarchy of judges, how it would have turned out. I continue to pray Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

      Shalom,

      Helen


      --- On Sun, 11/30/08, JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au> wrote:

        From: JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>
        Subject: [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.
        To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
        Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 7:15 AM


        Shalom Chaverim,

        I would like to post an article that has been close to my heart for a long time. It was written by Rabbi Natan Weisz.
        It radically changed my view on life and how I understood Torah. It challenged me to the very core in as much that it rammed home the message of Torah observance versus Torah belief. It blew away any cobwebs ,entrenched and encrusted Christian theology.

        This is a theme that I will expand upon in due time.

        Whilst it may not be the Parashat reading for this day, I maintain that the sin of the spies is still with us to this very day.
        The Rabbis maintain that both temples were destroyed on account of this sin and that Mashiach is the only one capable of rectifying the final outcome.

        Unfortunately this theme is in the spotlight once again as the issue of the "land and Yerushalyim" is on the agenda of the world powers and the Israeli elections.

        I apologize for the length of the article. I encourage you all to persevere to the end of the article.  

        May you all be blessed by this article.
         

             How to Look for Holiness 
        by Rabbi Natan Weisz.

          "These are the words that Moses spoke to all Israel, on the other side of the Jordan, in the wilderness, in the Arabah, opposite the Sea of Reeds, between Paran and Tofel, and Laban and Hazeroth, and Di-zahab; eleven days from Horeb, by way of Mount Seir to Kodesh-Barnea." (Deut. 1:1)
        This description of the venue of Moses' speech cannot have been intended to guide us to the actual location - there is far too much confusing detail, and a lot of the places described are not even near each other.
        For this reason, the rabbis interpreted this verse as being a description of the content of the speech itself rather than a description of its location; it informs us that Moses' speech contains a message of chastisement. In his final speech to them, Moses chastised the Jewish people and pointed out their shortcomings during the forty-year desert sojourn that was coming to its conclusion with his death. Each place mentioned in the verse refers to the venue of a transgression.
        In the same breath, the Rabbis also stress that this was the only occasion that Moses ever chastised the entire Jewish nation as a group, and they cite several reasons for this. (See Rashi's commentary for the details.)
        But there is something very perplexing about this interpretation. If he was indeed delivering the only speech of chastisement during his tenure as the leader of the Jews, Moses was addressing the wrong audience. Most of the sins and shortcomings he refers to in his speech - such as the sin of the Golden Calf, or the sin of the spies - were committed by people who had passed away in the desert. How can we relate to the idea of chastising a later generation for the sins committed by their parents or grandparents?
        But this is not the strangest aspect of this speech of chastisement. On the surface, almost the entire Parsha is dedicated to the simple recounting the sin of the spies in all its detail and describing its aftermath without any apparent commentary. If this was a speech of chastisement, where are the words of chastisement? What is the point of recording the speech and omitting the chastisement?
        * * *
        NON-SEQUITUR
        The answer is obviously that the chastisement is there to see if we search for it. If we delve beneath the surface a bit, we find that Moses made two major points. We can uncover the first of these points by analyzing what appears to be a glaring non-sequitur. (See Deut. 1:6-8.)
        Following the introductory statement referred to, Moses begins his discourse by relating how God told the Jewish people to leave Mount Sinai; they had tarried there long enough and it was time to go and conquer the land. Right after this beginning, Moses makes an apparently bizarre digression that takes up ten full verses (Deut. 1:9-18). He describes the implementation of Jethro's advice (offered in Exodus 18:14-27) concerning the appointment of judges as a means of reducing his [Moses'] workload to manageable proportions. Then (ibid. 1:19) he returns once again to the theme of the conquest; the verses that follow describe the sending of the spies and the issuing of the edict against the Exodus generation that was its consequence.
        What is the story of the appointment of the judges doing here? What connection does it have to the story of the spies?
        * * *
        THE LESSONS OF HISTORY
        The maxim states; a wise man should always learn from history. Only a fool repeats mistakes that have already been committed and suffers needlessly thereby. This seems like good advice, but it is one of those bits of conventional wisdom that are difficult to apply in practice. History is easy to understand but difficult to interpret. The true causes of historical events are often quite obscure, and this makes the lessons of history difficult to decipher. The task is even more daunting if you subscribe to the prophetic view of history followed by Jewish tradition.
        For example, historians offer many sound economic and social reasons for the rise of the Babylonian Empire. But the Jewish prophets take a different view. Jeremiah repeatedly refers to Nebuchadnezzar as God's agent of destruction. Prophetic theory attributes the rise of the Babylonian Empire to the need to create an agency that had the power to destroy the Temple and send the Jewish people into exile.
        The emergence of a superpower was a pre-requisite of the destruction. No simple enemy raider could destroy the Temple. The Jewish people fought like lions displaying great courage and self-sacrifice to protect the physical symbol of their connection to God. Indeed, both Temples were destroyed by the superpowers of the time, which were compelled to dispatch enormous armies to accomplish the task and subdue Jewish resistance.
        The major theme of Jeremiah's prophecies concerning the rise of Babylon is related to the destruction of the first Temple, but Jewish tradition advances the same theory concerning the rise of Rome and the destruction of the second Temple. The Talmud associates the rise of Rome with Solomon's marriage to Pharaoh's daughter, and to the establishment of idols by Jeroboam (Talmud, Shabbat, 56a).
        * * *
        JEWISH HISTORIC CAUSE
        If the theories of Jewish tradition are accurate, Jewish sin is the true cause of all the enormous upheavals that took place in the ancient world. Jewish sin is the true cause of all the suffering caused by the exercise of the immense power of these great empires and is also responsible for the positive cultural effects of their existence on human history and culture. Rebellion against God by the Jewish people renders the continued existence of the Temple impossible and its destruction mandatory; this makes it mandatory to create an aggressive force with a sufficient concentration of power to carry out the task of destruction; the world ends up with imperialistic superpowers such as Babylon and Rome.
        According to the theory, the economic and social factors that apparently led to the rise of these great powers would have been entirely ineffective in the absence of Jewish sin. It is clear that if we accept this view, we are forced to conclude that the secular historians who study these events and extract "scientific" principles that can be applied to related situations are barking up the wrong tree. The factors that secular historians interpret as causes of great historic movements are not causes at all. They are actually effects.
        It follows that only the prophets can teach us the true lessons of history because it is only they who understand them. In a Divinely directed world only God's spokesmen are able to explain His actions in an authoritative way.
        * * *
        BACK TO THE NON-SEQUITUR
        It is in this vein that we should regard Moses' apparent digression. Moses was not interested in merely retelling the story of the sin of the spies; he was interested in pointing out its underlying causes. If we accept the Torah view that Jewish sin is the underlying cause of all historic upheaval, then it makes sense to attempt to unravel the underlying causes of sin itself. Learning the causes of sin is the way to avoid repeating the mistakes of history. If you know the cause of sin you can learn to avoid sins in the future and avoid the upheavals they cause. This is the lesson that Moses wanted to teach the next generation. This is what needs to be corrected so we do not fall once again into the pit.
        He was not addressing the wrong audience. He did not wish to merely chastise. He wanted to teach the Jewish people how to avoid the errors they committed during his tenure as leader. He called them all together to teach them the dynamics of history as they must be understood by Jews. To learn from the mistakes of the past you have to understand them first. His primary concern was the successful settlement of the land of Israel, the chief failure of his tenure as leader. It is understandable that the problem he focused on first in his final address was the sin of the spies, the main topic of the Parsha.
        If we look at the 'digression' from this perspective, Moses was saying that the sin of the spies was caused by the same underlying factor as the failure to object to the loss of Moses' own direct leadership. For the Jewish people did not protest the setting up of the hierarchy of courts. They did not tell Moses, "Why are you telling us to hear the word of God second hand? You are our major link to God. If we insert layers of authority between you and ourselves, we are in effect distancing ourselves from God's word. We don't want it."
        The definition of efficiency is to accomplish the same result more effectively. But as the object of Torah observance is to bring people closer to God, the implementation of a system that increases the distance between God and the Jewish people can hardly be termed efficient. The court system may function more efficiently but the Jewish system of justice is only a means to an end. The goal it is directed to reach, a greater closeness to God, would actually recede with the implementation of the hierarchy of courts.
        * * *
        REPEATING THE MISTAKE
        This same mistaken attitude was responsible for the misunderstanding that led to the sin of the spies. The true object of the conquest of Israel and the attainment of a Jewish homeland is to enable the Jewish people to demonstrate to themselves and to the world that even everyday secular life can bring one to close to God when it is properly conducted. The attainment of holiness does not require the abandonment of ordinary existence in favor of a life of contemplation and asceticism. The path to holiness leads smack through the house, the farm and the factory.
        The goal of Jewish nationalism must be to demonstrate that Jews can remain as close to God even as they occupy themselves with building and maintaining all the trappings associated with the modern secular state as they were when they were eating manna in the desert and were engrossed in full time Torah study. Moses himself makes this point later in his speech.
          "Then I said to you: Do not be broken and do not fear them! The Lord your God, Who goes before you - He shall make war for you, like everything he did for you in Egypt, before your eyes. And in the wilderness, as you have seen, that the Lord your God bore you, as a man carries his son on the entire way that you traveled, until you arrived at this place..." (Ibid. 29-33)
        The Jews obviously felt that life in the land of Israel would be fundamentally different than life in the desert. As long as they were in the desert, the fact that they were forced to rely on God to conduct their affairs miraculously did not cause them anxiety. They were up to living with miracles because they were leading very holy, unmaterialistic lives. But settled in Israel, living a secular life of comfort and materialism, they did not believe that it would be possible to maintain the same sort of spiritual intimacy with God. Secular life is inherently lacking in holiness. Israel was beyond their reach because they needed miracles to live in Israel and once they left the desert miracles would be beyond their reach.
        Moses was countering their argument by teaching them that the entire point of their settling in Israel was the maintenance of the same relationship and intimacy with God they had in the desert in the midst of an outwardly secular life; the commandments of the Torah were designed specifically to enable them to do this. He was using the story of the appointment of the judges as a teaching aid. No gain in efficiency is worthwhile if you have to sacrifice your major goals in order to attain it.
        The Covenant of Sinai was about establishing an intimate relation with God. The entry into Israel could not possibly jeopardize such intimacy otherwise it would never have been contemplated. Their parents weren't willing to listen to this message and he was pleading with them not to commit the same error. If they failed to realize and appreciate the goals of Jewish nationalism they were headed for disaster.
        * * *
        THE SECOND LESSON
        The first lesson of Moses' speech concerns the factors behind the commitment of sin. If it is important not to repeat the mistakes of history, it is just as important to learn how to fix these mistakes in case they are committed once again. Moses' second lesson concerns the proper way to correct sins after they have been committed. A full account of how to remedy the failures of the desert generation must include a lesson about the proper way to repair the damage to the relationship with God in the unfortunate event that it has been allowed to occur. For the desert generation attempted to remedy their error:
          "Then you spoke up and said to me, 'We have sinned to God! We shall go up and do battle according to everything that the Lord, our God, has commanded us!' Every man of you girded his weapons of war, and you were ready to ascend the mountain! God said to me: Tell them, 'Do not ascend and do not do battle, for I am not among you; so that you will not be struck down before your enemies.' So I spoke to you but you did not listen. You rebelled against the word of God and you were willful and climbed the mountain." (Ibid. 41-43)
        The Ohr Hachaim asks: Why did God reject this act of collective repentance? Surely, by readying themselves to conquer the land once again the Jewish people demonstrated that they had remedied the defect of the lack of faith in God. Chastised by God's anger they returned to Moses fully ready and willing to gird their loins and go into battle. They had obviously overcome their fear of the nations of Canaan and renewed their faith in God. What did God find unacceptable about their repentance?
        The key is in God's own words: "Do not ascend and do not do battle for I am not among you." For anyone whose interest in conquering the land of Israel is based on a true desire to enter into a state of intimacy with God, this Divine statement should have functioned as a bright red light. For God Himself was stating in the clearest terms 'that I am not among you'; there is no point to making the conquest now; the spiritual land of Israel is simply not there to be conquered under the circumstances. Even if the Jewish people could somehow acquire the physical Israel by the force of arms, in their present state of sin, living in Israel would not provide the means of establishing the state of intimacy with God that was the purpose of the whole enterprise.
        The situation demanded true repentance first; obedience to the original command would no longer serve the purpose. God's chief concern was not the act of disobedience itself; the cause of His powerful reaction was the underlying reason behind the sin. He did not want the Jewish people in Israel unless they fully understood that the goal of their entry was to maintain the level of intimacy with God in the context of ordinary life that they enjoyed in the desert. As soon as God declared, "I am not among you," they should have abandoned every other project and focused on repairing the damage to the relationship with God. They focused on correcting their disobedience instead. Had they gone about repenting correctly, God's edict against them would surely have been revoked.
        * * *
        A FAULTY JUSTICE SYSTEM
        We generally read this Torah portion on the Shabbat immediately preceding the 9th day of Av, the day of the anniversary of the commission of the sin of the 'shedding tears in vain' whose consequence was the issuance of the edict of death in the desert against the Exodus generation. The shedding of these vain tears caused the need to shed real tears through Jewish history. The 9th of Av is also the anniversary of the destruction of both Temples as well as many other major tragedies of Jewish history such as the expulsion of the Jews from Spain, from England, and the outbreak of the First World War.
        The Haftorah reading is taken from Isaiah 1, a chapter that prophetically warns of the impending destruction of the first Temple. An examination of the details reveals that the Jewish people had not yet internalized the lessons of history that Moses had attempted to teach them. A reading of the Haftorah shows that the Jews of the period were diligently observing their duties toward God. They were offering the Temple sacrifices as proscribed, they were faithfully observing the tri-annual pilgrimage to the Temple, and they were being diligent in their prayers. Something else was missing, and it was this missing factor that caused the destruction:
          "How the faithful city has become a harlot! She had been full of justice, righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers! Your silver has become dross, your heady wine diluted with water. Your princes are wayward and associates of thieves; the whole of them loves bribery and pursue illegal payments; for the orphan they do not do justice, the cause of the widow does not come unto them." (Isaiah 1:21-23)
        The prophet brings us right back to Moses' non-sequitur. Once again it is a faulty justice system that is highlighted as the underlying cause of destruction. The Jewish justice system is the ultimate expression of the Jewish people's public attitude towards Torah observance. When the Jewish justice system reduces to no more than a method of settling disputes, it reflects an attitude towards the laws of the Torah that is similar to that of all law-abiding citizens observing any secular system. Torah law is like any other law. It must be observed in all particulars and all disputes must be settled according to its dictates. But this attitude misses the point of Torah law entirely.
        The laws of the Torah were given to us as a means of attaching our everyday lives to God by investing life's mundane details with significance and holiness. The Jewish judicial system is intended to bring God's justice into the world and to reflect the workings of a society that conducts its business affairs in the light of holiness. When it takes no notice of the oppression of the widow and the orphan, when it tolerates bribery and corruption, it indicates that it is nothing more than the Jewish method of settling human disputes. A society that has such notions is fundamentally lacking in holiness; it does not require the land of Israel or God's Temple within it.
        Jewish nationalism must be goal directed. Its aim can never be simply to live peacefully and securely within a Jewish secular state. It must be focused on the establishment of an intimate relationship between man and God, to teaching how you can live a normal life in this world and still be obviously God's holy people. The normal life patterns of everyday living in a Jewish state must be imbued with spirituality and reflect holiness. The aim of Jewish life is not the attainment of holiness through the performance of acts of devotion. The aim is not to step out of life into holiness; it is nothing short of the elevation of life itself.
        Each generation of Jews has to grapple with the same spiritual problems, and must aim to attain the identical goals. God constantly readjusts the circumstances of the struggle to conform with the capacity and cultural orientation of the particular generation of Jews living at the time, but it is never the historic task that changes, only the circumstances under which it needs to be carried out. If ever any generation fully succeeded at the task of demonstrating the potential Godliness in everyday life, the aim of Jewish history would be attained and the Messiah would finally come.
        The lessons of Moses apply to all Jews at all times. We must still correct our historic mistake. There cannot be a viable Jewish state in the Land of Israel that doesn't concern itself with connecting the secular trappings of statehood to God. In whatever fashion appropriate to the times, God must be at the center of the picture.

        This is a lesson for all of us in our daily lives. 
        It is not what we believe and study that counts but what we do in the service of HaShem as His faithful servants; bringing the Holy into every facet of our lives both spiritual and secular.
        Torah without the land makes HaShem's Abrahamic Covenant null and void.

        Shalom v'Ahavah,
        JOE.

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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 30 15:04:26 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 16:04:26 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.
In-Reply-To: <493283E0.3040708@westnet.com.au>
References: <493283E0.3040708@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS53C10EA2C1EA55240975DBA060@phx.gbl>

This is awesome, Joe.  Have not finished studying it yet.  Have to leave the house now, but will continue it later.  Thank you so much.  ~ Pat


From: JOE INDOMENICO 
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:15 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.


Shalom Chaverim,

I would like to post an article that has been close to my heart for a long time. It was written by Rabbi Natan Weisz.
It radically changed my view on life and how I understood Torah. It challenged me to the very core in as much that it rammed home the message of Torah observance versus Torah belief. It blew away any cobwebs ,entrenched and encrusted Christian theology.

This is a theme that I will expand upon in due time.

Whilst it may not be the Parashat reading for this day, I maintain that the sin of the spies is still with us to this very day.
The Rabbis maintain that both temples were destroyed on account of this sin and that Mashiach is the only one capable of rectifying the final outcome.

Unfortunately this theme is in the spotlight once again as the issue of the "land and Yerushalyim" is on the agenda of the world powers and the Israeli elections.

I apologize for the length of the article. I encourage you all to persevere to the end of the article.  

May you all be blessed by this article.
 

     How to Look for Holiness 
by Rabbi Natan Weisz.


  "These are the words that Moses spoke to all Israel, on the other side of the Jordan, in the wilderness, in the Arabah, opposite the Sea of Reeds, between Paran and Tofel, and Laban and Hazeroth, and Di-zahab; eleven days from Horeb, by way of Mount Seir to Kodesh-Barnea." (Deut. 1:1)

This description of the venue of Moses' speech cannot have been intended to guide us to the actual location - there is far too much confusing detail, and a lot of the places described are not even near each other.

For this reason, the rabbis interpreted this verse as being a description of the content of the speech itself rather than a description of its location; it informs us that Moses' speech contains a message of chastisement. In his final speech to them, Moses chastised the Jewish people and pointed out their shortcomings during the forty-year desert sojourn that was coming to its conclusion with his death. Each place mentioned in the verse refers to the venue of a transgression.

In the same breath, the Rabbis also stress that this was the only occasion that Moses ever chastised the entire Jewish nation as a group, and they cite several reasons for this. (See Rashi's commentary for the details.)

But there is something very perplexing about this interpretation. If he was indeed delivering the only speech of chastisement during his tenure as the leader of the Jews, Moses was addressing the wrong audience. Most of the sins and shortcomings he refers to in his speech - such as the sin of the Golden Calf, or the sin of the spies - were committed by people who had passed away in the desert. How can we relate to the idea of chastising a later generation for the sins committed by their parents or grandparents?

But this is not the strangest aspect of this speech of chastisement. On the surface, almost the entire Parsha is dedicated to the simple recounting the sin of the spies in all its detail and describing its aftermath without any apparent commentary. If this was a speech of chastisement, where are the words of chastisement? What is the point of recording the speech and omitting the chastisement?

* * *

NON-SEQUITUR

The answer is obviously that the chastisement is there to see if we search for it. If we delve beneath the surface a bit, we find that Moses made two major points. We can uncover the first of these points by analyzing what appears to be a glaring non-sequitur. (See Deut. 1:6-8.)

Following the introductory statement referred to, Moses begins his discourse by relating how God told the Jewish people to leave Mount Sinai; they had tarried there long enough and it was time to go and conquer the land. Right after this beginning, Moses makes an apparently bizarre digression that takes up ten full verses (Deut. 1:9-18). He describes the implementation of Jethro's advice (offered in Exodus 18:14-27) concerning the appointment of judges as a means of reducing his [Moses'] workload to manageable proportions. Then (ibid. 1:19) he returns once again to the theme of the conquest; the verses that follow describe the sending of the spies and the issuing of the edict against the Exodus generation that was its consequence.

What is the story of the appointment of the judges doing here? What connection does it have to the story of the spies?

* * *
THE LESSONS OF HISTORY

The maxim states; a wise man should always learn from history. Only a fool repeats mistakes that have already been committed and suffers needlessly thereby. This seems like good advice, but it is one of those bits of conventional wisdom that are difficult to apply in practice. History is easy to understand but difficult to interpret. The true causes of historical events are often quite obscure, and this makes the lessons of history difficult to decipher. The task is even more daunting if you subscribe to the prophetic view of history followed by Jewish tradition.

For example, historians offer many sound economic and social reasons for the rise of the Babylonian Empire. But the Jewish prophets take a different view. Jeremiah repeatedly refers to Nebuchadnezzar as God's agent of destruction. Prophetic theory attributes the rise of the Babylonian Empire to the need to create an agency that had the power to destroy the Temple and send the Jewish people into exile.

The emergence of a superpower was a pre-requisite of the destruction. No simple enemy raider could destroy the Temple. The Jewish people fought like lions displaying great courage and self-sacrifice to protect the physical symbol of their connection to God. Indeed, both Temples were destroyed by the superpowers of the time, which were compelled to dispatch enormous armies to accomplish the task and subdue Jewish resistance.

The major theme of Jeremiah's prophecies concerning the rise of Babylon is related to the destruction of the first Temple, but Jewish tradition advances the same theory concerning the rise of Rome and the destruction of the second Temple. The Talmud associates the rise of Rome with Solomon's marriage to Pharaoh's daughter, and to the establishment of idols by Jeroboam (Talmud, Shabbat, 56a).

* * *
JEWISH HISTORIC CAUSE

If the theories of Jewish tradition are accurate, Jewish sin is the true cause of all the enormous upheavals that took place in the ancient world. Jewish sin is the true cause of all the suffering caused by the exercise of the immense power of these great empires and is also responsible for the positive cultural effects of their existence on human history and culture. Rebellion against God by the Jewish people renders the continued existence of the Temple impossible and its destruction mandatory; this makes it mandatory to create an aggressive force with a sufficient concentration of power to carry out the task of destruction; the world ends up with imperialistic superpowers such as Babylon and Rome.

According to the theory, the economic and social factors that apparently led to the rise of these great powers would have been entirely ineffective in the absence of Jewish sin. It is clear that if we accept this view, we are forced to conclude that the secular historians who study these events and extract "scientific" principles that can be applied to related situations are barking up the wrong tree. The factors that secular historians interpret as causes of great historic movements are not causes at all. They are actually effects.

It follows that only the prophets can teach us the true lessons of history because it is only they who understand them. In a Divinely directed world only God's spokesmen are able to explain His actions in an authoritative way.

* * *
BACK TO THE NON-SEQUITUR

It is in this vein that we should regard Moses' apparent digression. Moses was not interested in merely retelling the story of the sin of the spies; he was interested in pointing out its underlying causes. If we accept the Torah view that Jewish sin is the underlying cause of all historic upheaval, then it makes sense to attempt to unravel the underlying causes of sin itself. Learning the causes of sin is the way to avoid repeating the mistakes of history. If you know the cause of sin you can learn to avoid sins in the future and avoid the upheavals they cause. This is the lesson that Moses wanted to teach the next generation. This is what needs to be corrected so we do not fall once again into the pit.

He was not addressing the wrong audience. He did not wish to merely chastise. He wanted to teach the Jewish people how to avoid the errors they committed during his tenure as leader. He called them all together to teach them the dynamics of history as they must be understood by Jews. To learn from the mistakes of the past you have to understand them first. His primary concern was the successful settlement of the land of Israel, the chief failure of his tenure as leader. It is understandable that the problem he focused on first in his final address was the sin of the spies, the main topic of the Parsha.

If we look at the 'digression' from this perspective, Moses was saying that the sin of the spies was caused by the same underlying factor as the failure to object to the loss of Moses' own direct leadership. For the Jewish people did not protest the setting up of the hierarchy of courts. They did not tell Moses, "Why are you telling us to hear the word of God second hand? You are our major link to God. If we insert layers of authority between you and ourselves, we are in effect distancing ourselves from God's word. We don't want it."

The definition of efficiency is to accomplish the same result more effectively. But as the object of Torah observance is to bring people closer to God, the implementation of a system that increases the distance between God and the Jewish people can hardly be termed efficient. The court system may function more efficiently but the Jewish system of justice is only a means to an end. The goal it is directed to reach, a greater closeness to God, would actually recede with the implementation of the hierarchy of courts.

* * *
REPEATING THE MISTAKE

This same mistaken attitude was responsible for the misunderstanding that led to the sin of the spies. The true object of the conquest of Israel and the attainment of a Jewish homeland is to enable the Jewish people to demonstrate to themselves and to the world that even everyday secular life can bring one to close to God when it is properly conducted. The attainment of holiness does not require the abandonment of ordinary existence in favor of a life of contemplation and asceticism. The path to holiness leads smack through the house, the farm and the factory.

The goal of Jewish nationalism must be to demonstrate that Jews can remain as close to God even as they occupy themselves with building and maintaining all the trappings associated with the modern secular state as they were when they were eating manna in the desert and were engrossed in full time Torah study. Moses himself makes this point later in his speech.

  "Then I said to you: Do not be broken and do not fear them! The Lord your God, Who goes before you - He shall make war for you, like everything he did for you in Egypt, before your eyes. And in the wilderness, as you have seen, that the Lord your God bore you, as a man carries his son on the entire way that you traveled, until you arrived at this place..." (Ibid. 29-33)

The Jews obviously felt that life in the land of Israel would be fundamentally different than life in the desert. As long as they were in the desert, the fact that they were forced to rely on God to conduct their affairs miraculously did not cause them anxiety. They were up to living with miracles because they were leading very holy, unmaterialistic lives. But settled in Israel, living a secular life of comfort and materialism, they did not believe that it would be possible to maintain the same sort of spiritual intimacy with God. Secular life is inherently lacking in holiness. Israel was beyond their reach because they needed miracles to live in Israel and once they left the desert miracles would be beyond their reach.

Moses was countering their argument by teaching them that the entire point of their settling in Israel was the maintenance of the same relationship and intimacy with God they had in the desert in the midst of an outwardly secular life; the commandments of the Torah were designed specifically to enable them to do this. He was using the story of the appointment of the judges as a teaching aid. No gain in efficiency is worthwhile if you have to sacrifice your major goals in order to attain it.

The Covenant of Sinai was about establishing an intimate relation with God. The entry into Israel could not possibly jeopardize such intimacy otherwise it would never have been contemplated. Their parents weren't willing to listen to this message and he was pleading with them not to commit the same error. If they failed to realize and appreciate the goals of Jewish nationalism they were headed for disaster.

* * *
THE SECOND LESSON

The first lesson of Moses' speech concerns the factors behind the commitment of sin. If it is important not to repeat the mistakes of history, it is just as important to learn how to fix these mistakes in case they are committed once again. Moses' second lesson concerns the proper way to correct sins after they have been committed. A full account of how to remedy the failures of the desert generation must include a lesson about the proper way to repair the damage to the relationship with God in the unfortunate event that it has been allowed to occur. For the desert generation attempted to remedy their error:

  "Then you spoke up and said to me, 'We have sinned to God! We shall go up and do battle according to everything that the Lord, our God, has commanded us!' Every man of you girded his weapons of war, and you were ready to ascend the mountain! God said to me: Tell them, 'Do not ascend and do not do battle, for I am not among you; so that you will not be struck down before your enemies.' So I spoke to you but you did not listen. You rebelled against the word of God and you were willful and climbed the mountain." (Ibid. 41-43)

The Ohr Hachaim asks: Why did God reject this act of collective repentance? Surely, by readying themselves to conquer the land once again the Jewish people demonstrated that they had remedied the defect of the lack of faith in God. Chastised by God's anger they returned to Moses fully ready and willing to gird their loins and go into battle. They had obviously overcome their fear of the nations of Canaan and renewed their faith in God. What did God find unacceptable about their repentance?

The key is in God's own words: "Do not ascend and do not do battle for I am not among you." For anyone whose interest in conquering the land of Israel is based on a true desire to enter into a state of intimacy with God, this Divine statement should have functioned as a bright red light. For God Himself was stating in the clearest terms 'that I am not among you'; there is no point to making the conquest now; the spiritual land of Israel is simply not there to be conquered under the circumstances. Even if the Jewish people could somehow acquire the physical Israel by the force of arms, in their present state of sin, living in Israel would not provide the means of establishing the state of intimacy with God that was the purpose of the whole enterprise.

The situation demanded true repentance first; obedience to the original command would no longer serve the purpose. God's chief concern was not the act of disobedience itself; the cause of His powerful reaction was the underlying reason behind the sin. He did not want the Jewish people in Israel unless they fully understood that the goal of their entry was to maintain the level of intimacy with God in the context of ordinary life that they enjoyed in the desert. As soon as God declared, "I am not among you," they should have abandoned every other project and focused on repairing the damage to the relationship with God. They focused on correcting their disobedience instead. Had they gone about repenting correctly, God's edict against them would surely have been revoked.

* * *
A FAULTY JUSTICE SYSTEM

We generally read this Torah portion on the Shabbat immediately preceding the 9th day of Av, the day of the anniversary of the commission of the sin of the 'shedding tears in vain' whose consequence was the issuance of the edict of death in the desert against the Exodus generation. The shedding of these vain tears caused the need to shed real tears through Jewish history. The 9th of Av is also the anniversary of the destruction of both Temples as well as many other major tragedies of Jewish history such as the expulsion of the Jews from Spain, from England, and the outbreak of the First World War.

The Haftorah reading is taken from Isaiah 1, a chapter that prophetically warns of the impending destruction of the first Temple. An examination of the details reveals that the Jewish people had not yet internalized the lessons of history that Moses had attempted to teach them. A reading of the Haftorah shows that the Jews of the period were diligently observing their duties toward God. They were offering the Temple sacrifices as proscribed, they were faithfully observing the tri-annual pilgrimage to the Temple, and they were being diligent in their prayers. Something else was missing, and it was this missing factor that caused the destruction:

  "How the faithful city has become a harlot! She had been full of justice, righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers! Your silver has become dross, your heady wine diluted with water. Your princes are wayward and associates of thieves; the whole of them loves bribery and pursue illegal payments; for the orphan they do not do justice, the cause of the widow does not come unto them." (Isaiah 1:21-23)

The prophet brings us right back to Moses' non-sequitur. Once again it is a faulty justice system that is highlighted as the underlying cause of destruction. The Jewish justice system is the ultimate expression of the Jewish people's public attitude towards Torah observance. When the Jewish justice system reduces to no more than a method of settling disputes, it reflects an attitude towards the laws of the Torah that is similar to that of all law-abiding citizens observing any secular system. Torah law is like any other law. It must be observed in all particulars and all disputes must be settled according to its dictates. But this attitude misses the point of Torah law entirely.

The laws of the Torah were given to us as a means of attaching our everyday lives to God by investing life's mundane details with significance and holiness. The Jewish judicial system is intended to bring God's justice into the world and to reflect the workings of a society that conducts its business affairs in the light of holiness. When it takes no notice of the oppression of the widow and the orphan, when it tolerates bribery and corruption, it indicates that it is nothing more than the Jewish method of settling human disputes. A society that has such notions is fundamentally lacking in holiness; it does not require the land of Israel or God's Temple within it.

Jewish nationalism must be goal directed. Its aim can never be simply to live peacefully and securely within a Jewish secular state. It must be focused on the establishment of an intimate relationship between man and God, to teaching how you can live a normal life in this world and still be obviously God's holy people. The normal life patterns of everyday living in a Jewish state must be imbued with spirituality and reflect holiness. The aim of Jewish life is not the attainment of holiness through the performance of acts of devotion. The aim is not to step out of life into holiness; it is nothing short of the elevation of life itself.

Each generation of Jews has to grapple with the same spiritual problems, and must aim to attain the identical goals. God constantly readjusts the circumstances of the struggle to conform with the capacity and cultural orientation of the particular generation of Jews living at the time, but it is never the historic task that changes, only the circumstances under which it needs to be carried out. If ever any generation fully succeeded at the task of demonstrating the potential Godliness in everyday life, the aim of Jewish history would be attained and the Messiah would finally come.

The lessons of Moses apply to all Jews at all times. We must still correct our historic mistake. There cannot be a viable Jewish state in the Land of Israel that doesn't concern itself with connecting the secular trappings of statehood to God. In whatever fashion appropriate to the times, God must be at the center of the picture.


This is a lesson for all of us in our daily lives. 
It is not what we believe and study that counts but what we do in the service of HaShem as His faithful servants; bringing the Holy into every facet of our lives both spiritual and secular.
Torah without the land makes HaShem's Abrahamic Covenant null and void.


Shalom v'Ahavah,
JOE.




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From carlson_john at bellsouth.net  Sun Nov 30 18:41:57 2008
From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 00:41:57 +0000
Subject: [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.
In-Reply-To: <493283E0.3040708@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <120120080041.20348.493332D30006880A00004F7C22216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net>

Thanks Joe,

In my opinion, this cuts right to the heart of the matter for Jews and Christians, for anyone who claims allegiance to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for that matter.

--
John C. 

"Be excellent to each other!" 
Bill and Ted 


-------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO <jid at westnet.com.au>: -------------- 

Shalom Chaverim,

I would like to post an article that has been close to my heart for a long time. It was written by Rabbi Natan Weisz.
It radically changed my view on life and how I understood Torah. It challenged me to the very core in as much that it rammed home the message of Torah observance versus Torah belief. It blew away any cobwebs ,entrenched and encrusted Christian theology.

This is a theme that I will expand upon in due time.

Whilst it may not be the Parashat reading for this day, I maintain that the sin of the spies is still with us to this very day.
The Rabbis maintain that both temples were destroyed on account of this sin and that Mashiach is the only one capable of rectifying the final outcome.

Unfortunately this theme is in the spotlight once again as the issue of the "land and Yerushalyim" is on the agenda of the world powers and the Israeli elections.

I apologize for the length of the article. I encourage you all to persevere to the end of the article.  

May you all be blessed by this article.
 

How to Look for Holiness
by Rabbi Natan Weisz.

"These are the words that Moses spoke to all Israel, on the other side of the Jordan, in the wilderness, in the Arabah, opposite the Sea of Reeds, between Paran and Tofel, and Laban and Hazeroth, and Di-zahab; eleven days from Horeb, by way of Mount Seir to Kodesh-Barnea." (Deut. 1:1)
This description of the venue of Moses' speech cannot have been intended to guide us to the actual location - there is far too much confusing detail, and a lot of the places described are not even near each other.
For this reason, the rabbis interpreted this verse as being a description of the content of the speech itself rather than a description of its location; it informs us that Moses' speech contains a message of chastisement. In his final speech to them, Moses chastised the Jewish people and pointed out their shortcomings during the forty-year desert sojourn that was coming to its conclusion with his death. Each place mentioned in the verse refers to the venue of a transgression.
In the same breath, the Rabbis also stress that this was the only occasion that Moses ever chastised the entire Jewish nation as a group, and they cite several reasons for this. (See Rashi's commentary for the details.)
But there is something very perplexing about this interpretation. If he was indeed delivering the only speech of chastisement during his tenure as the leader of the Jews, Moses was addressing the wrong audience. Most of the sins and shortcomings he refers to in his speech - such as the sin of the Golden Calf, or the sin of the spies - were committed by people who had passed away in the desert. How can we relate to the idea of chastising a later generation for the sins committed by their parents or grandparents?
But this is not the strangest aspect of this speech of chastisement. On the surface, almost the entire Parsha is dedicated to the simple recounting the sin of the spies in all its detail and describing its aftermath without any apparent commentary. If this was a speech of chastisement, where are the words of chastisement? What is the point of recording the speech and omitting the chastisement?
* * *
NON-SEQUITUR
The answer is obviously that the chastisement is there to see if we search for it. If we delve beneath the surface a bit, we find that Moses made two major points. We can uncover the first of these points by analyzing what appears to be a glaring non-sequitur. (See Deut. 1:6-8.)
Following the introductory statement referred to, Moses begins his discourse by relating how God told the Jewish people to leave Mount Sinai; they had tarried there long enough and it was time to go and conquer the land. Right after this beginning, Moses makes an apparently bizarre digression that takes up ten full verses (Deut. 1:9-18). He describes the implementation of Jethro's advice (offered in Exodus 18:14-27) concerning the appointment of judges as a means of reducing his [Moses'] workload to manageable proportions. Then (ibid. 1:19) he returns once again to the theme of the conquest; the verses that follow describe the sending of the spies and the issuing of the edict against the Exodus generation that was its consequence.
What is the story of the appointment of the judges doing here? What connection does it have to the story of the spies?
* * *
THE LESSONS OF HISTORY
The maxim states; a wise man should always learn from history. Only a fool repeats mistakes that have already been committed and suffers needlessly thereby. This seems like good advice, but it is one of those bits of conventional wisdom that are difficult to apply in practice. History is easy to understand but difficult to interpret. The true causes of historical events are often quite obscure, and this makes the lessons of history difficult to decipher. The task is even more daunting if you subscribe to the prophetic view of history followed by Jewish tradition.
For example, historians offer many sound economic and social reasons for the rise of the Babylonian Empire. But the Jewish prophets take a different view. Jeremiah repeatedly refers to Nebuchadnezzar as God's agent of destruction. Prophetic theory attributes the rise of the Babylonian Empire to the need to create an agency that had the power to destroy the Temple and send the Jewish people into exile.
The emergence of a superpower was a pre-requisite of the destruction. No simple enemy raider could destroy the Temple. The Jewish people fought like lions displaying great courage and self-sacrifice to protect the physical symbol of their connection to God. Indeed, both Temples were destroyed by the superpowers of the time, which were compelled to dispatch enormous armies to accomplish the task and subdue Jewish resistance.
The major theme of Jeremiah's prophecies concerning the rise of Babylon is related to the destruction of the first Temple, but Jewish tradition advances the same theory concerning the rise of Rome and the destruction of the second Temple. The Talmud associates the rise of Rome with Solomon's marriage to Pharaoh's daughter, and to the establishment of idols by Jeroboam (Talmud, Shabbat, 56a).
* * *
JEWISH HISTORIC CAUSE
If the theories of Jewish tradition are accurate, Jewish sin is the true cause of all the enormous upheavals that took place in the ancient world. Jewish sin is the true cause of all the suffering caused by the exercise of the immense power of these great empires and is also responsible for the positive cultural effects of their existence on human history and culture. Rebellion against God by the Jewish people renders the continued existence of the Temple impossible and its destruction mandatory; this makes it mandatory to create an aggressive force with a sufficient concentration of power to carry out the task of destruction; the world ends up with imperialistic superpowers such as Babylon and Rome.
According to the theory, the economic and social factors that apparently led to the rise of these great powers would have been entirely ineffective in the absence of Jewish sin. It is clear that if we accept this view, we are forced to conclude that the secular historians who study these events and extract "scientific" principles that can be applied to related situations are barking up the wrong tree. The factors that secular historians interpret as causes of great historic movements are not causes at all. They are actually effects.
It follows that only the prophets can teach us the true lessons of history because it is only they who understand them. In a Divinely directed world only God's spokesmen are able to explain His actions in an authoritative way.
* * *
BACK TO THE NON-SEQUITUR
It is in this vein that we should regard Moses' apparent digression. Moses was not interested in merely retelling the story of the sin of the spies; he was interested in pointing out its underlying causes. If we accept the Torah view that Jewish sin is the underlying cause of all historic upheaval, then it makes sense to attempt to unravel the underlying causes of sin itself. Learning the causes of sin is the way to avoid repeating the mistakes of history. If you know the cause of sin you can learn to avoid sins in the future and avoid the upheavals they cause. This is the lesson that Moses wanted to teach the next generation. This is what needs to be corrected so we do not fall once again into the pit.
He was not addressing the wrong audience. He did not wish to merely chastise. He wanted to teach the Jewish people how to avoid the errors they committed during his tenure as leader. He called them all together to teach them the dynamics of history as they must be understood by Jews. To learn from the mistakes of the past you have to understand them first. His primary concern was the successful settlement of the land of Israel, the chief failure of his tenure as leader. It is understandable that the problem he focused on first in his final address was the sin of the spies, the main topic of the Parsha.
If we look at the 'digression' from this perspective, Moses was saying that the sin of the spies was caused by the same underlying factor as the failure to object to the loss of Moses' own direct leadership. For the Jewish people did not protest the setting up of the hierarchy of courts. They did not tell Moses, "Why are you telling us to hear the word of God second hand? You are our major link to God. If we insert layers of authority between you and ourselves, we are in effect distancing ourselves from God's word. We don't want it."
The definition of efficiency is to accomplish the same result more effectively. But as the object of Torah observance is to bring people closer to God, the implementation of a system that increases the distance between God and the Jewish people can hardly be termed efficient. The court system may function more efficiently but the Jewish system of justice is only a means to an end. The goal it is directed to reach, a greater closeness to God, would actually recede with the implementation of the hierarchy of courts.
* * *
REPEATING THE MISTAKE
This same mistaken attitude was responsible for the misunderstanding that led to the sin of the spies. The true object of the conquest of Israel and the attainment of a Jewish homeland is to enable the Jewish people to demonstrate to themselves and to the world that even everyday secular life can bring one to close to God when it is properly conducted. The attainment of holiness does not require the abandonment of ordinary existence in favor of a life of contemplation and asceticism. The path to holiness leads smack through the house, the farm and the factory.
The goal of Jewish nationalism must be to demonstrate that Jews can remain as close to God even as they occupy themselves with building and maintaining all the trappings associated with the modern secular state as they were when they were eating manna in the desert and were engrossed in full time Torah study. Moses himself makes this point later in his speech.
"Then I said to you: Do not be broken and do not fear them! The Lord your God, Who goes before you - He shall make war for you, like everything he did for you in Egypt, before your eyes. And in the wilderness, as you have seen, that the Lord your God bore you, as a man carries his son on the entire way that you traveled, until you arrived at this place..." (Ibid. 29-33)
The Jews obviously felt that life in the land of Israel would be fundamentally different than life in the desert. As long as they were in the desert, the fact that they were forced to rely on God to conduct their affairs miraculously did not cause them anxiety. They were up to living with miracles because they were leading very holy, unmaterialistic lives. But settled in Israel, living a secular life of comfort and materialism, they did not believe that it would be possible to maintain the same sort of spiritual intimacy with God. Secular life is inherently lacking in holiness. Israel was beyond their reach because they needed miracles to live in Israel and once they left the desert miracles would be beyond their reach.
Moses was countering their argument by teaching them that the entire point of their settling in Israel was the maintenance of the same relationship and intimacy with God they had in the desert in the midst of an outwardly secular life; the commandments of the Torah were designed specifically to enable them to do this. He was using the story of the appointment of the judges as a teaching aid. No gain in efficiency is worthwhile if you have to sacrifice your major goals in order to attain it.
The Covenant of Sinai was about establishing an intimate relation with God. The entry into Israel could not possibly jeopardize such intimacy otherwise it would never have been contemplated. Their parents weren't willing to listen to this message and he was pleading with them not to commit the same error. If they failed to realize and appreciate the goals of Jewish nationalism they were headed for disaster.
* * *
THE SECOND LESSON
The first lesson of Moses' speech concerns the factors behind the commitment of sin. If it is important not to repeat the mistakes of history, it is just as important to learn how to fix these mistakes in case they are committed once again. Moses' second lesson concerns the proper way to correct sins after they have been committed. A full account of how to remedy the failures of the desert generation must include a lesson about the proper way to repair the damage to the relationship with God in the unfortunate event that it has been allowed to occur. For the desert generation attempted to remedy their error:
"Then you spoke up and said to me, 'We have sinned to God! We shall go up and do battle according to everything that the Lord, our God, has commanded us!' Every man of you girded his weapons of war, and you were ready to ascend the mountain! God said to me: Tell them, 'Do not ascend and do not do battle, for I am not among you; so that you will not be struck down before your enemies.' So I spoke to you but you did not listen. You rebelled against the word of God and you were willful and climbed the mountain." (Ibid. 41-43)
The Ohr Hachaim asks: Why did God reject this act of collective repentance? Surely, by readying themselves to conquer the land once again the Jewish people demonstrated that they had remedied the defect of the lack of faith in God. Chastised by God's anger they returned to Moses fully ready and willing to gird their loins and go into battle. They had obviously overcome their fear of the nations of Canaan and renewed their faith in God. What did God find unacceptable about their repentance?
The key is in God's own words: "Do not ascend and do not do battle for I am not among you." For anyone whose interest in conquering the land of Israel is based on a true desire to enter into a state of intimacy with God, this Divine statement should have functioned as a bright red light. For God Himself was stating in the clearest terms 'that I am not among you'; there is no point to making the conquest now; the spiritual land of Israel is simply not there to be conquered under the circumstances. Even if the Jewish people could somehow acquire the physical Israel by the force of arms, in their present state of sin, living in Israel would not provide the means of establishing the state of intimacy with God that was the purpose of the whole enterprise.
The situation demanded true repentance first; obedience to the original command would no longer serve the purpose. God's chief concern was not the act of disobedience itself; the cause of His powerful reaction was the underlying reason behind the sin. He did not want the Jewish people in Israel unless they fully understood that the goal of their entry was to maintain the level of intimacy with God in the context of ordinary life that they enjoyed in the desert. As soon as God declared, "I am not among you," they should have abandoned every other project and focused on repairing the damage to the relationship with God. They focused on correcting their disobedience instead. Had they gone about repenting correctly, God's edict against them would surely have been revoked.
* * *
A FAULTY JUSTICE SYSTEM
We generally read this Torah portion on the Shabbat immediately preceding the 9th day of Av, the day of the anniversary of the commission of the sin of the 'shedding tears in vain' whose consequence was the issuance of the edict of death in the desert against the Exodus generation. The shedding of these vain tears caused the need to shed real tears through Jewish history. The 9th of Av is also the anniversary of the destruction of both Temples as well as many other major tragedies of Jewish history such as the expulsion of the Jews from Spain, from England, and the outbreak of the First World War.
The Haftorah reading is taken from Isaiah 1, a chapter that prophetically warns of the impending destruction of the first Temple. An examination of the details reveals that the Jewish people had not yet internalized the lessons of history that Moses had attempted to teach them. A reading of the Haftorah shows that the Jews of the period were diligently observing their duties toward God. They were offering the Temple sacrifices as proscribed, they were faithfully observing the tri-annual pilgrimage to the Temple, and they were being diligent in their prayers. Something else was missing, and it was this missing factor that caused the destruction:
"How the faithful city has become a harlot! She had been full of justice, righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers! Your silver has become dross, your heady wine diluted with water. Your princes are wayward and associates of thieves; the whole of them loves bribery and pursue illegal payments; for the orphan they do not do justice, the cause of the widow does not come unto them." (Isaiah 1:21-23)
The prophet brings us right back to Moses' non-sequitur. Once again it is a faulty justice system that is highlighted as the underlying cause of destruction. The Jewish justice system is the ultimate expression of the Jewish people's public attitude towards Torah observance. When the Jewish justice system reduces to no more than a method of settling disputes, it reflects an attitude towards the laws of the Torah that is similar to that of all law-abiding citizens observing any secular system. Torah law is like any other law. It must be observed in all particulars and all disputes must be settled according to its dictates. But this attitude misses the point of Torah law entirely.
The laws of the Torah were given to us as a means of attaching our everyday lives to God by investing life's mundane details with significance and holiness. The Jewish judicial system is intended to bring God's justice into the world and to reflect the workings of a society that conducts its business affairs in the light of holiness. When it takes no notice of the oppression of the widow and the orphan, when it tolerates bribery and corruption, it indicates that it is nothing more than the Jewish method of settling human disputes. A society that has such notions is fundamentally lacking in holiness; it does not require the land of Israel or God's Temple within it.
Jewish nationalism must be goal directed. Its aim can never be simply to live peacefully and securely within a Jewish secular state. It must be focused on the establishment of an intimate relationship between man and God, to teaching how you can live a normal life in this world and still be obviously God's holy people. The normal life patterns of everyday living in a Jewish state must be imbued with spirituality and reflect holiness. The aim of Jewish life is not the attainment of holiness through the performance of acts of devotion. The aim is not to step out of life into holiness; it is nothing short of the elevation of life itself.
Each generation of Jews has to grapple with the same spiritual problems, and must aim to attain the identical goals. God constantly readjusts the circumstances of the struggle to conform with the capacity and cultural orientation of the particular generation of Jews living at the time, but it is never the historic task that changes, only the circumstances under which it needs to be carried out. If ever any generation fully succeeded at the task of demonstrating the potential Godliness in everyday life, the aim of Jewish history would be attained and the Messiah would finally come.
The lessons of Moses apply to all Jews at all times. We must still correct our historic mistake. There cannot be a viable Jewish state in the Land of Israel that doesn't concern itself with connecting the secular trappings of statehood to God. In whatever fashion appropriate to the times, God must be at the center of the picture.

This is a lesson for all of us in our daily lives. 
It is not what we believe and study that counts but what we do in the service of HaShem as His faithful servants; bringing the Holy into every facet of our lives both spiritual and secular.
Torah without the land makes HaShem's Abrahamic Covenant null and void.

Shalom v'Ahavah,
JOE.
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From Correim at gninc.ca  Sun Nov 30 19:35:17 2008
From: Correim at gninc.ca (Cornie Reimer)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:35:17 -0600
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.
In-Reply-To: <BLU125-DS53C10EA2C1EA55240975DBA060@phx.gbl>
References: <493283E0.3040708@westnet.com.au>
	<BLU125-DS53C10EA2C1EA55240975DBA060@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49333F55.8080604@gninc.ca>

Shalom, Joe, Steve, Pat and all, also to those whoever listened to Rabbi 
Greenbaum this morning. I was so glad I could get that message, even 
though my own keyboard on my computer gave out and i could not even 
return a shalom and thank you to the Rabbi, but it was so good, as well 
as all the information of the horrendous terror attack in Mumbai India. 
Especially all that concerns the Rabbi and his wife, with so many others 
that were so brutally wounded. And all this because of our sins of 
today, as in the message below from Joe. Not necessarily these  peoples 
sins, but ours as a whole.

It makes my heart ache to think of it. When I think of this message that 
was sent us by you Joe, we do not really need to blame these terrorists, 
as they are all doing what Hashem has prepared them for. They the 
perpetrators themselves may have no part in the Olam Habba, (anyway, if 
spelled wrong, I mean the world to come) What about me, will I have a 
part in it?  It seems like Moses must have seen a quite clear picture of 
what this is really all about. And likely much more to come, unless we 
will be worthy to repent, these attacks may shortly reach our own shores 
in beautiful America, more than in 9/11 in our own home land, what am I  
to do to correct this from happening? I have a counter part right in my 
own home. This too is given to me of Hashem, He wants me to spread emuna 
into the depth of the hearts of my own still Christian family. I see my 
shortcomings daily. Thank You !! Baruch Hashem for that diamond studded 
mirror You gave me for a  life partner.

I am more and more persuaded that I must be a part of the 12 tribes some 
where. And although I can not put my finger on just where I belong, but 
I believe my maker has spoken clear enough and gentle enough that I can 
handle it. I believe He seriously wants to save me as well as you all,  
from despairing of it all. He is graciously calling us all to get on our 
knees, and cry out unto Him for wisdom and understanding how to face the 
future.

I was just listening to the last 20 minutes of Ross speaking from the 
Synagogue with out walls, in a video. Wonderful, I am sorry I missed 
most of it, but at least I finally got in on it. Who knows what Hashem 
wants to have come forth out of this source. Take courage Ross, the way 
may seem rough at times, but it seems to me that is the sign we can 
depend on, that it may well be from a higher source than mere men.

Shalom

Cornelius Reimer




Pat Robbins wrote:
> This is awesome, Joe.  Have not finished studying it yet.  Have to 
> leave the house now, but will continue it later.  Thank you so much.  
> ~ Pat
>
> *From:* JOE INDOMENICO <mailto:jid at westnet.com.au>
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:15 AM
> *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org <mailto:dialogue at rootsoffaith.org>
> *Subject:* [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.
>
> /Shalom Chaverim,
>
> I would like to post an article that has been close to my heart for a 
> long time. It was written by Rabbi Natan Weisz.
> It radically changed my view on life and how I understood Torah. It 
> challenged me to the very core in as much that it rammed home the 
> message of Torah observance versus Torah belief. It blew away any 
> cobwebs ,entrenched and encrusted Christian theology.
>
> This is a theme that I will expand upon in due time.
>
> Whilst it may not be the Parashat reading for this day, I maintain 
> that the sin of the spies is still with us to this very day.
> The Rabbis maintain that both temples were destroyed on account of 
> this sin and that Mashiach is the only one capable of rectifying the 
> final outcome.
>
> Unfortunately this theme is in the spotlight once again as the issue 
> of the_* "land and Yerushalyim"*_ is on the agenda of the world powers 
> and the Israeli elections.
>
> I apologize for the length of the article. I encourage you all to 
> persevere to the end of the article. 
>
> May you all be blessed by this article.
>  /
>
> 	*How to Look for Holiness*
>
> by Rabbi Natan Weisz.
>
>     /"These are the words that Moses spoke to all Israel, on the other
>     side of the Jordan, in the wilderness, in the Arabah, opposite the
>     Sea of Reeds, between Paran and Tofel, and Laban and Hazeroth, and
>     Di-zahab; eleven days from Horeb, by way of Mount Seir to
>     Kodesh-Barnea." /(Deut. 1:1)
>
> This description of the venue of Moses' speech cannot have been 
> intended to guide us to the actual location - there is far too much 
> confusing detail, and a lot of the places described are not even near 
> each other.
>
> For this reason, the rabbis interpreted this verse as being a 
> description of the content of the speech itself rather than a 
> description of its location; it informs us that Moses' speech contains 
> a message of chastisement. In his final speech to them, Moses 
> chastised the Jewish people and pointed out their shortcomings during 
> the forty-year desert sojourn that was coming to its conclusion with 
> his death. Each place mentioned in the verse refers to the venue of a 
> transgression.
>
> In the same breath, the Rabbis also stress that this was the only 
> occasion that Moses ever chastised the entire Jewish nation as a 
> group, and they cite several reasons for this. (See Rashi's commentary 
> for the details.)
>
> But there is something very perplexing about this interpretation. If 
> he was indeed delivering the only speech of chastisement during his 
> tenure as the leader of the Jews, Moses was addressing the wrong 
> audience. Most of the sins and shortcomings he refers to in his speech 
> - such as the sin of the Golden Calf, or the sin of the spies - were 
> committed by people who had passed away in the desert. How can we 
> relate to the idea of chastising a later generation for the sins 
> committed by their parents or grandparents?
>
> But this is not the strangest aspect of this speech of chastisement. 
> On the surface, almost the entire Parsha is dedicated to the simple 
> recounting the sin of the spies in all its detail and describing its 
> aftermath without any apparent commentary. If this was a speech of 
> chastisement, where are the words of chastisement? What is the point 
> of recording the speech and omitting the chastisement?
>
> * * *
>
> *NON-SEQUITUR*
>
> The answer is obviously that the chastisement is there to see if we 
> search for it. If we delve beneath the surface a bit, we find that 
> Moses made two major points. We can uncover the first of these points 
> by analyzing what appears to be a glaring non-sequitur. (See Deut. 1:6-8.)
>
> Following the introductory statement referred to, Moses begins his 
> discourse by relating how God told the Jewish people to leave Mount 
> Sinai; they had tarried there long enough and it was time to go and 
> conquer the land. Right after this beginning, Moses makes an 
> apparently bizarre digression that takes up ten full verses (Deut. 
> 1:9-18). He describes the implementation of Jethro's advice (offered 
> in Exodus 18:14-27) concerning the appointment of judges as a means of 
> reducing his [Moses'] workload to manageable proportions. Then (ibid. 
> 1:19) he returns once again to the theme of the conquest; the verses 
> that follow describe the sending of the spies and the issuing of the 
> edict against the Exodus generation that was its consequence.
>
> What is the story of the appointment of the judges doing here? What 
> connection does it have to the story of the spies?
>
> * * *
>
> *THE LESSONS OF HISTORY*
>
> The maxim states; a wise man should always learn from history. Only a 
> fool repeats mistakes that have already been committed and suffers 
> needlessly thereby. This seems like good advice, but it is one of 
> those bits of conventional wisdom that are difficult to apply in 
> practice. History is easy to understand but difficult to interpret. 
> The true causes of historical events are often quite obscure, and this 
> makes the lessons of history difficult to decipher. The task is even 
> more daunting if you subscribe to the prophetic view of history 
> followed by Jewish tradition.
>
> For example, historians offer many sound economic and social reasons 
> for the rise of the Babylonian Empire. But the Jewish prophets take a 
> different view. Jeremiah repeatedly refers to Nebuchadnezzar as God's 
> agent of destruction. Prophetic theory attributes the rise of the 
> Babylonian Empire to the need to create an agency that had the power 
> to destroy the Temple and send the Jewish people into exile.
>
> The emergence of a superpower was a pre-requisite of the destruction. 
> No simple enemy raider could destroy the Temple. The Jewish people 
> fought like lions displaying great courage and self-sacrifice to 
> protect the physical symbol of their connection to God. Indeed, both 
> Temples were destroyed by the superpowers of the time, which were 
> compelled to dispatch enormous armies to accomplish the task and 
> subdue Jewish resistance.
>
> The major theme of Jeremiah's prophecies concerning the rise of 
> Babylon is related to the destruction of the first Temple, but Jewish 
> tradition advances the same theory concerning the rise of Rome and the 
> destruction of the second Temple. The Talmud associates the rise of 
> Rome with Solomon's marriage to Pharaoh's daughter, and to the 
> establishment of idols by Jeroboam (Talmud, Shabbat, 56a).
>
> * * *
>
> *JEWISH HISTORIC CAUSE*
>
> If the theories of Jewish tradition are accurate, Jewish sin is the 
> true cause of all the enormous upheavals that took place in the 
> ancient world. Jewish sin is the true cause of all the suffering 
> caused by the exercise of the immense power of these great empires and 
> is also responsible for the positive cultural effects of their 
> existence on human history and culture. Rebellion against God by the 
> Jewish people renders the continued existence of the Temple impossible 
> and its destruction mandatory; this makes it mandatory to create an 
> aggressive force with a sufficient concentration of power to carry out 
> the task of destruction; the world ends up with imperialistic 
> superpowers such as Babylon and Rome.
>
> According to the theory, the economic and social factors that 
> apparently led to the rise of these great powers would have been 
> entirely ineffective in the absence of Jewish sin. It is clear that if 
> we accept this view, we are forced to conclude that the secular 
> historians who study these events and extract "scientific" principles 
> that can be applied to related situations are barking up the wrong 
> tree. The factors that secular historians interpret as causes of great 
> historic movements are not causes at all. They are actually effects.
>
> It follows that only the prophets can teach us the true lessons of 
> history because it is only they who understand them. In a Divinely 
> directed world only God's spokesmen are able to explain His actions in 
> an authoritative way.
>
> * * *
>
> *BACK TO THE NON-SEQUITUR*
>
> It is in this vein that we should regard Moses' apparent digression. 
> Moses was not interested in merely retelling the story of the sin of 
> the spies; he was interested in pointing out its underlying causes. If 
> we accept the Torah view that Jewish sin is the underlying cause of 
> all historic upheaval, then it makes sense to attempt to unravel the 
> underlying causes of sin itself. Learning the causes of sin is the way 
> to avoid repeating the mistakes of history. If you know the cause of 
> sin you can learn to avoid sins in the future and avoid the upheavals 
> they cause. This is the lesson that Moses wanted to teach the next 
> generation. This is what needs to be corrected so we do not fall once 
> again into the pit.
>
> He was not addressing the wrong audience. He did not wish to merely 
> chastise. He wanted to teach the Jewish people how to avoid the errors 
> they committed during his tenure as leader. He called them all 
> together to teach them the dynamics of history as they must be 
> understood by Jews. To learn from the mistakes of the past you have to 
> understand them first. His primary concern was the successful 
> settlement of the land of Israel, the chief failure of his tenure as 
> leader. It is understandable that the problem he focused on first in 
> his final address was the sin of the spies, the main topic of the Parsha.
>
> If we look at the 'digression' from this perspective, Moses was saying 
> that the sin of the spies was caused by the same underlying factor as 
> the failure to object to the loss of Moses' own direct leadership. For 
> the Jewish people did not protest the setting up of the hierarchy of 
> courts. They did not tell Moses, "Why are you telling us to hear the 
> word of God second hand? You are our major link to God. If we insert 
> layers of authority between you and ourselves, we are in effect 
> distancing ourselves from God's word. We don't want it."
>
> The definition of efficiency is to accomplish the same result more 
> effectively. But as the object of Torah observance is to bring people 
> closer to God, the implementation of a system that increases the 
> distance between God and the Jewish people can hardly be termed 
> efficient. The court system may function more efficiently but the 
> Jewish system of justice is only a means to an end. The goal it is 
> directed to reach, a greater closeness to God, would actually recede 
> with the implementation of the hierarchy of courts.
>
> * * *
>
> *REPEATING THE MISTAKE*
>
> This same mistaken attitude was responsible for the misunderstanding 
> that led to the sin of the spies. The true object of the conquest of 
> Israel and the attainment of a Jewish homeland is to enable the Jewish 
> people to demonstrate to themselves and to the world that even 
> everyday secular life can bring one to close to God when it is 
> properly conducted. The attainment of holiness does not require the 
> abandonment of ordinary existence in favor of a life of contemplation 
> and asceticism. The path to holiness leads smack through the house, 
> the farm and the factory.
>
> The goal of Jewish nationalism must be to demonstrate that Jews can 
> remain as close to God even as they occupy themselves with building 
> and maintaining all the trappings associated with the modern secular 
> state as they were when they were eating manna in the desert and were 
> engrossed in full time Torah study. Moses himself makes this point 
> later in his speech.
>
>     /"Then I said to you: Do not be broken and do not fear them! The
>     Lord your God, Who goes before you - He shall make war for you,
>     like everything he did for you in Egypt, before your eyes. And in
>     the wilderness, as you have seen, that the Lord your God bore you,
>     as a man carries his son on the entire way that you traveled,
>     until you arrived at this place..." /(Ibid. 29-33)
>
> The Jews obviously felt that life in the land of Israel would be 
> fundamentally different than life in the desert. As long as they were 
> in the desert, the fact that they were forced to rely on God to 
> conduct their affairs miraculously did not cause them anxiety. They 
> were up to living with miracles because they were leading very holy, 
> unmaterialistic lives. But settled in Israel, living a secular life of 
> comfort and materialism, they did not believe that it would be 
> possible to maintain the same sort of spiritual intimacy with God. 
> Secular life is inherently lacking in holiness. Israel was beyond 
> their reach because they needed miracles to live in Israel and once 
> they left the desert miracles would be beyond their reach.
>
> Moses was countering their argument by teaching them that the entire 
> point of their settling in Israel was the maintenance of the same 
> relationship and intimacy with God they had in the desert in the midst 
> of an outwardly secular life; the commandments of the Torah were 
> designed specifically to enable them to do this. He was using the 
> story of the appointment of the judges as a teaching aid. No gain in 
> efficiency is worthwhile if you have to sacrifice your major goals in 
> order to attain it.
>
> The Covenant of Sinai was about establishing an intimate relation with 
> God. The entry into Israel could not possibly jeopardize such intimacy 
> otherwise it would never have been contemplated. Their parents weren't 
> willing to listen to this message and he was pleading with them not to 
> commit the same error. If they failed to realize and appreciate the 
> goals of Jewish nationalism they were headed for disaster.
>
> * * *
>
> *THE SECOND LESSON*
>
> The first lesson of Moses' speech concerns the factors behind the 
> commitment of sin. If it is important not to repeat the mistakes of 
> history, it is just as important to learn how to fix these mistakes in 
> case they are committed once again. Moses' second lesson concerns the 
> proper way to correct sins after they have been committed. A full 
> account of how to remedy the failures of the desert generation must 
> include a lesson about the proper way to repair the damage to the 
> relationship with God in the unfortunate event that it has been 
> allowed to occur. For the desert generation attempted to remedy their 
> error:
>
>     /"Then you spoke up and said to me, 'We have sinned to God! We
>     shall go up and do battle according to everything that the Lord,
>     our God, has commanded us!' Every man of you girded his weapons of
>     war, and you were ready to ascend the mountain! God said to me:
>     Tell them, 'Do not ascend and do not do battle, for I am not among
>     you; so that you will not be struck down before your enemies.' So
>     I spoke to you but you did not listen. You rebelled against the
>     word of God and you were willful and climbed the mountain."
>     /(Ibid. 41-43)
>
> The Ohr Hachaim asks: Why did God reject this act of collective 
> repentance? Surely, by readying themselves to conquer the land once 
> again the Jewish people demonstrated that they had remedied the defect 
> of the lack of faith in God. Chastised by God's anger they returned to 
> Moses fully ready and willing to gird their loins and go into battle. 
> They had obviously overcome their fear of the nations of Canaan and 
> renewed their faith in God. What did God find unacceptable about their 
> repentance?
>
> The key is in God's own words: /"Do not ascend and do not do battle 
> for I am not among you."/ For anyone whose interest in conquering the 
> land of Israel is based on a true desire to enter into a state of 
> intimacy with God, this Divine statement should have functioned as a 
> bright red light. For God Himself was stating in the clearest terms 
> 'that I am not among you'; there is no point to making the conquest 
> now; the spiritual land of Israel is simply not there to be conquered 
> under the circumstances. Even if the Jewish people could somehow 
> acquire the physical Israel by the force of arms, in their present 
> state of sin, living in Israel would not provide the means of 
> establishing the state of intimacy with God that was the purpose of 
> the whole enterprise.
>
> The situation demanded true repentance first; obedience to the 
> original command would no longer serve the purpose. God's chief 
> concern was not the act of disobedience itself; the cause of His 
> powerful reaction was the underlying reason behind the sin. He did not 
> want the Jewish people in Israel unless they fully understood that the 
> goal of their entry was to maintain the level of intimacy with God in 
> the context of ordinary life that they enjoyed in the desert. As soon 
> as God declared, "I am not among you," they should have abandoned 
> every other project and focused on repairing the damage to the 
> relationship with God. They focused on correcting their disobedience 
> instead. Had they gone about repenting correctly, God's edict against 
> them would surely have been revoked.
>
> * * *
>
> *A FAULTY JUSTICE SYSTEM*
>
> We generally read this Torah portion on the Shabbat immediately 
> preceding the 9^th day of Av, the day of the anniversary of the 
> commission of the sin of the 'shedding tears in vain' whose 
> consequence was the issuance of the edict of death in the desert 
> against the Exodus generation. The shedding of these vain tears caused 
> the need to shed real tears through Jewish history. The 9^th of Av is 
> also the anniversary of the destruction of both Temples as well as 
> many other major tragedies of Jewish history such as the expulsion of 
> the Jews from Spain, from England, and the outbreak of the First World 
> War.
>
> The Haftorah reading is taken from Isaiah 1, a chapter that 
> prophetically warns of the impending destruction of the first Temple. 
> An examination of the details reveals that the Jewish people had not 
> yet internalized the lessons of history that Moses had attempted to 
> teach them. A reading of the Haftorah shows that the Jews of the 
> period were diligently observing their duties toward God. They were 
> offering the Temple sacrifices as proscribed, they were faithfully 
> observing the tri-annual pilgrimage to the Temple, and they were being 
> diligent in their prayers. Something else was missing, and it was this 
> missing factor that caused the destruction:
>
>     /"How the faithful city has become a harlot! She had been full of
>     justice, righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers! Your
>     silver has become dross, your heady wine diluted with water. Your
>     princes are wayward and associates of thieves; the whole of them
>     loves bribery and pursue illegal payments; for the orphan they do
>     not do justice, the cause of the widow does not come unto them."
>     /(Isaiah 1:21-23)
>
> /The prophet brings us right back to Moses' non-sequitur. Once again 
> it is a faulty justice system that is highlighted as the underlying 
> cause of destruction. The Jewish justice system is the ultimate 
> expression of the Jewish people's public attitude towards Torah 
> observance. When the Jewish justice system reduces to no more than a 
> method of settling disputes, it reflects an attitude towards the laws 
> of the Torah that is similar to that of all law-abiding citizens 
> observing any secular system. Torah law is like any other law. It must 
> be observed in all particulars and all disputes must be settled 
> according to its dictates. But this attitude misses the point of Torah 
> law entirely./
>
> /The laws of the Torah were given to us as a means of attaching our 
> everyday lives to God by investing life's mundane details with 
> significance and holiness. The Jewish judicial system is intended to 
> bring God's justice into the world and to reflect the workings of a 
> society that conducts its business affairs in the light of holiness. 
> When it takes no notice of the oppression of the widow and the orphan, 
> when it tolerates bribery and corruption, it indicates that it is 
> nothing more than the Jewish method of settling human disputes. A 
> society that has such notions is fundamentally lacking in holiness; it 
> does not require the land of Israel or God's Temple within it./
>
> /Jewish nationalism must be goal directed. Its aim can never be simply 
> to live peacefully and securely within a Jewish secular state. It must 
> be focused on the establishment of an intimate relationship between 
> man and God, to teaching how you can live a normal life in this world 
> and still be obviously God's holy people. The normal life patterns of 
> everyday living in a Jewish state must be imbued with spirituality and 
> reflect holiness. The aim of Jewish life is not the attainment of 
> holiness through the performance of acts of devotion. The aim is not 
> to step out of life into holiness; it is nothing short of the 
> elevation of life itself./
>
> Each generation of Jews has to grapple with the same spiritual 
> problems, and must aim to attain the identical goals. God constantly 
> readjusts the circumstances of the struggle to conform with the 
> capacity and cultural orientation of the particular generation of Jews 
> living at the time, but it is never the historic task that changes, 
> only the circumstances under which it needs to be carried out. If ever 
> any generation fully succeeded at the task of demonstrating the 
> potential Godliness in everyday life, the aim of Jewish history would 
> be attained and the Messiah would finally come.
>
> The lessons of Moses apply to all Jews at all times. We must still 
> correct our historic mistake. There cannot be a viable Jewish state in 
> the Land of Israel that doesn't concern itself with connecting the 
> secular trappings of statehood to God. In whatever fashion appropriate 
> to the times, God must be at the center of the picture.
>
> /This is a lesson for all of us in our daily lives.
> It is not what we believe and study that counts but what we do in the 
> service of HaShem as His faithful servants; bringing the Holy into 
> every facet of our lives both spiritual and secular.
> Torah without the land makes HaShem's Abrahamic Covenant null and void.
> /
>
> /Shalom v'Ahavah,
> JOE.
> /
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
>   
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From ptyler at aac-usa.com  Sun Nov 30 19:48:06 2008
From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty )
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:48:06 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Awesome Sunday Shul Lesson Tonight
In-Reply-To: <49333F55.8080604@gninc.ca>
References: <493283E0.3040708@westnet.com.au>	<BLU125-DS53C10EA2C1EA55240975DBA060@phx.gbl>
	<49333F55.8080604@gninc.ca>
Message-ID: <00b001c95356$dcb2ad80$96180880$@com>

Shalom Ross and All,

 

This is the first time I have caught the lesson, was  very impressed as I
have thought a lot about the topics discussed.

 

Patty

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From dstone34 at cox.net  Sun Nov 30 20:59:28 2008
From: dstone34 at cox.net (Diana Stone)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:59:28 -0600
Subject: [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.
References: <493283E0.3040708@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <F9087FC57C4C4AE6876492366DE5C076@toshibauser>

Shalom Everyone,

Good article Joe..   It is all about the intent/attitude behind and within the action/deed.  It does not matter if it is the establishment of Etez Israel, Jerusalem, the building of the III Temple, OR interactions between nations or two individuals, or between Man/Woman and God in a pubic or private setting.  It is OUR soul's intention and purpose behind the deed/action that matters -- THE WHY behind what we are doing.   Are our motives aligned with Torah (at what ever we understand that to be at that point in time)?  OR is it all about some self-serving purpose.  HaShem wants us to CHOOSE to do the right thing AND to do it for the right reason - That we desire to walk in His Ways.  Whether it is in the form of community acknowledgement of  the Creator or within interpersonal relationships, HaShem is drawn to the seeker of truth and righteousness.  It is in the search/study of His Word, and allowing His Word to transform our lives by following His Ways in our everyday lives that we find Holiness.  

Blessings,
Diana 

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JOE INDOMENICO 
  To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
  Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 6:15 AM
  Subject: [Dialogue] How to look for Holiness.


  Shalom Chaverim,

  I would like to post an article that has been close to my heart for a long time. It was written by Rabbi Natan Weisz.
  It radically changed my view on life and how I understood Torah. It challenged me to the very core in as much that it rammed home the message of Torah observance versus Torah belief. It blew away any cobwebs ,entrenched and encrusted Christian theology.

  This is a theme that I will expand upon in due time.

  Whilst it may not be the Parashat reading for this day, I maintain that the sin of the spies is still with us to this very day.
  The Rabbis maintain that both temples were destroyed on account of this sin and that Mashiach is the only one capable of rectifying the final outcome.

  Unfortunately this theme is in the spotlight once again as the issue of the "land and Yerushalyim" is on the agenda of the world powers and the Israeli elections.

  I apologize for the length of the article. I encourage you all to persevere to the end of the article.  

  May you all be blessed by this article.
   

       How to Look for Holiness 
  by Rabbi Natan Weisz.


    "These are the words that Moses spoke to all Israel, on the other side of the Jordan, in the wilderness, in the Arabah, opposite the Sea of Reeds, between Paran and Tofel, and Laban and Hazeroth, and Di-zahab; eleven days from Horeb, by way of Mount Seir to Kodesh-Barnea." (Deut. 1:1)

  This description of the venue of Moses' speech cannot have been intended to guide us to the actual location - there is far too much confusing detail, and a lot of the places described are not even near each other.

  For this reason, the rabbis interpreted this verse as being a description of the content of the speech itself rather than a description of its location; it informs us that Moses' speech contains a message of chastisement. In his final speech to them, Moses chastised the Jewish people and pointed out their shortcomings during the forty-year desert sojourn that was coming to its conclusion with his death. Each place mentioned in the verse refers to the venue of a transgression.

  In the same breath, the Rabbis also stress that this was the only occasion that Moses ever chastised the entire Jewish nation as a group, and they cite several reasons for this. (See Rashi's commentary for the details.)

  But there is something very perplexing about this interpretation. If he was indeed delivering the only speech of chastisement during his tenure as the leader of the Jews, Moses was addressing the wrong audience. Most of the sins and shortcomings he refers to in his speech - such as the sin of the Golden Calf, or the sin of the spies - were committed by people who had passed away in the desert. How can we relate to the idea of chastising a later generation for the sins committed by their parents or grandparents?

  But this is not the strangest aspect of this speech of chastisement. On the surface, almost the entire Parsha is dedicated to the simple recounting the sin of the spies in all its detail and describing its aftermath without any apparent commentary. If this was a speech of chastisement, where are the words of chastisement? What is the point of recording the speech and omitting the chastisement?

  * * *

  NON-SEQUITUR

  The answer is obviously that the chastisement is there to see if we search for it. If we delve beneath the surface a bit, we find that Moses made two major points. We can uncover the first of these points by analyzing what appears to be a glaring non-sequitur. (See Deut. 1:6-8.)

  Following the introductory statement referred to, Moses begins his discourse by relating how God told the Jewish people to leave Mount Sinai; they had tarried there long enough and it was time to go and conquer the land. Right after this beginning, Moses makes an apparently bizarre digression that takes up ten full verses (Deut. 1:9-18). He describes the implementation of Jethro's advice (offered in Exodus 18:14-27) concerning the appointment of judges as a means of reducing his [Moses'] workload to manageable proportions. Then (ibid. 1:19) he returns once again to the theme of the conquest; the verses that follow describe the sending of the spies and the issuing of the edict against the Exodus generation that was its consequence.

  What is the story of the appointment of the judges doing here? What connection does it have to the story of the spies?

  * * *
  THE LESSONS OF HISTORY

  The maxim states; a wise man should always learn from history. Only a fool repeats mistakes that have already been committed and suffers needlessly thereby. This seems like good advice, but it is one of those bits of conventional wisdom that are difficult to apply in practice. History is easy to understand but difficult to interpret. The true causes of historical events are often quite obscure, and this makes the lessons of history difficult to decipher. The task is even more daunting if you subscribe to the prophetic view of history followed by Jewish tradition.

  For example, historians offer many sound economic and social reasons for the rise of the Babylonian Empire. But the Jewish prophets take a different view. Jeremiah repeatedly refers to Nebuchadnezzar as God's agent of destruction. Prophetic theory attributes the rise of the Babylonian Empire to the need to create an agency that had the power to destroy the Temple and send the Jewish people into exile.

  The emergence of a superpower was a pre-requisite of the destruction. No simple enemy raider could destroy the Temple. The Jewish people fought like lions displaying great courage and self-sacrifice to protect the physical symbol of their connection to God. Indeed, both Temples were destroyed by the superpowers of the time, which were compelled to dispatch enormous armies to accomplish the task and subdue Jewish resistance.

  The major theme of Jeremiah's prophecies concerning the rise of Babylon is related to the destruction of the first Temple, but Jewish tradition advances the same theory concerning the rise of Rome and the destruction of the second Temple. The Talmud associates the rise of Rome with Solomon's marriage to Pharaoh's daughter, and to the establishment of idols by Jeroboam (Talmud, Shabbat, 56a).

  * * *
  JEWISH HISTORIC CAUSE

  If the theories of Jewish tradition are accurate, Jewish sin is the true cause of all the enormous upheavals that took place in the ancient world. Jewish sin is the true cause of all the suffering caused by the exercise of the immense power of these great empires and is also responsible for the positive cultural effects of their existence on human history and culture. Rebellion against God by the Jewish people renders the continued existence of the Temple impossible and its destruction mandatory; this makes it mandatory to create an aggressive force with a sufficient concentration of power to carry out the task of destruction; the world ends up with imperialistic superpowers such as Babylon and Rome.

  According to the theory, the economic and social factors that apparently led to the rise of these great powers would have been entirely ineffective in the absence of Jewish sin. It is clear that if we accept this view, we are forced to conclude that the secular historians who study these events and extract "scientific" principles that can be applied to related situations are barking up the wrong tree. The factors that secular historians interpret as causes of great historic movements are not causes at all. They are actually effects.

  It follows that only the prophets can teach us the true lessons of history because it is only they who understand them. In a Divinely directed world only God's spokesmen are able to explain His actions in an authoritative way.

  * * *
  BACK TO THE NON-SEQUITUR

  It is in this vein that we should regard Moses' apparent digression. Moses was not interested in merely retelling the story of the sin of the spies; he was interested in pointing out its underlying causes. If we accept the Torah view that Jewish sin is the underlying cause of all historic upheaval, then it makes sense to attempt to unravel the underlying causes of sin itself. Learning the causes of sin is the way to avoid repeating the mistakes of history. If you know the cause of sin you can learn to avoid sins in the future and avoid the upheavals they cause. This is the lesson that Moses wanted to teach the next generation. This is what needs to be corrected so we do not fall once again into the pit.

  He was not addressing the wrong audience. He did not wish to merely chastise. He wanted to teach the Jewish people how to avoid the errors they committed during his tenure as leader. He called them all together to teach them the dynamics of history as they must be understood by Jews. To learn from the mistakes of the past you have to understand them first. His primary concern was the successful settlement of the land of Israel, the chief failure of his tenure as leader. It is understandable that the problem he focused on first in his final address was the sin of the spies, the main topic of the Parsha.

  If we look at the 'digression' from this perspective, Moses was saying that the sin of the spies was caused by the same underlying factor as the failure to object to the loss of Moses' own direct leadership. For the Jewish people did not protest the setting up of the hierarchy of courts. They did not tell Moses, "Why are you telling us to hear the word of God second hand? You are our major link to God. If we insert layers of authority between you and ourselves, we are in effect distancing ourselves from God's word. We don't want it."

  The definition of efficiency is to accomplish the same result more effectively. But as the object of Torah observance is to bring people closer to God, the implementation of a system that increases the distance between God and the Jewish people can hardly be termed efficient. The court system may function more efficiently but the Jewish system of justice is only a means to an end. The goal it is directed to reach, a greater closeness to God, would actually recede with the implementation of the hierarchy of courts.

  * * *
  REPEATING THE MISTAKE

  This same mistaken attitude was responsible for the misunderstanding that led to the sin of the spies. The true object of the conquest of Israel and the attainment of a Jewish homeland is to enable the Jewish people to demonstrate to themselves and to the world that even everyday secular life can bring one to close to God when it is properly conducted. The attainment of holiness does not require the abandonment of ordinary existence in favor of a life of contemplation and asceticism. The path to holiness leads smack through the house, the farm and the factory.

  The goal of Jewish nationalism must be to demonstrate that Jews can remain as close to God even as they occupy themselves with building and maintaining all the trappings associated with the modern secular state as they were when they were eating manna in the desert and were engrossed in full time Torah study. Moses himself makes this point later in his speech.

    "Then I said to you: Do not be broken and do not fear them! The Lord your God, Who goes before you - He shall make war for you, like everything he did for you in Egypt, before your eyes. And in the wilderness, as you have seen, that the Lord your God bore you, as a man carries his son on the entire way that you traveled, until you arrived at this place..." (Ibid. 29-33)

  The Jews obviously felt that life in the land of Israel would be fundamentally different than life in the desert. As long as they were in the desert, the fact that they were forced to rely on God to conduct their affairs miraculously did not cause them anxiety. They were up to living with miracles because they were leading very holy, unmaterialistic lives. But settled in Israel, living a secular life of comfort and materialism, they did not believe that it would be possible to maintain the same sort of spiritual intimacy with God. Secular life is inherently lacking in holiness. Israel was beyond their reach because they needed miracles to live in Israel and once they left the desert miracles would be beyond their reach.

  Moses was countering their argument by teaching them that the entire point of their settling in Israel was the maintenance of the same relationship and intimacy with God they had in the desert in the midst of an outwardly secular life; the commandments of the Torah were designed specifically to enable them to do this. He was using the story of the appointment of the judges as a teaching aid. No gain in efficiency is worthwhile if you have to sacrifice your major goals in order to attain it.

  The Covenant of Sinai was about establishing an intimate relation with God. The entry into Israel could not possibly jeopardize such intimacy otherwise it would never have been contemplated. Their parents weren't willing to listen to this message and he was pleading with them not to commit the same error. If they failed to realize and appreciate the goals of Jewish nationalism they were headed for disaster.

  * * *
  THE SECOND LESSON

  The first lesson of Moses' speech concerns the factors behind the commitment of sin. If it is important not to repeat the mistakes of history, it is just as important to learn how to fix these mistakes in case they are committed once again. Moses' second lesson concerns the proper way to correct sins after they have been committed. A full account of how to remedy the failures of the desert generation must include a lesson about the proper way to repair the damage to the relationship with God in the unfortunate event that it has been allowed to occur. For the desert generation attempted to remedy their error:

    "Then you spoke up and said to me, 'We have sinned to God! We shall go up and do battle according to everything that the Lord, our God, has commanded us!' Every man of you girded his weapons of war, and you were ready to ascend the mountain! God said to me: Tell them, 'Do not ascend and do not do battle, for I am not among you; so that you will not be struck down before your enemies.' So I spoke to you but you did not listen. You rebelled against the word of God and you were willful and climbed the mountain." (Ibid. 41-43)

  The Ohr Hachaim asks: Why did God reject this act of collective repentance? Surely, by readying themselves to conquer the land once again the Jewish people demonstrated that they had remedied the defect of the lack of faith in God. Chastised by God's anger they returned to Moses fully ready and willing to gird their loins and go into battle. They had obviously overcome their fear of the nations of Canaan and renewed their faith in God. What did God find unacceptable about their repentance?

  The key is in God's own words: "Do not ascend and do not do battle for I am not among you." For anyone whose interest in conquering the land of Israel is based on a true desire to enter into a state of intimacy with God, this Divine statement should have functioned as a bright red light. For God Himself was stating in the clearest terms 'that I am not among you'; there is no point to making the conquest now; the spiritual land of Israel is simply not there to be conquered under the circumstances. Even if the Jewish people could somehow acquire the physical Israel by the force of arms, in their present state of sin, living in Israel would not provide the means of establishing the state of intimacy with God that was the purpose of the whole enterprise.

  The situation demanded true repentance first; obedience to the original command would no longer serve the purpose. God's chief concern was not the act of disobedience itself; the cause of His powerful reaction was the underlying reason behind the sin. He did not want the Jewish people in Israel unless they fully understood that the goal of their entry was to maintain the level of intimacy with God in the context of ordinary life that they enjoyed in the desert. As soon as God declared, "I am not among you," they should have abandoned every other project and focused on repairing the damage to the relationship with God. They focused on correcting their disobedience instead. Had they gone about repenting correctly, God's edict against them would surely have been revoked.

  * * *
  A FAULTY JUSTICE SYSTEM

  We generally read this Torah portion on the Shabbat immediately preceding the 9th day of Av, the day of the anniversary of the commission of the sin of the 'shedding tears in vain' whose consequence was the issuance of the edict of death in the desert against the Exodus generation. The shedding of these vain tears caused the need to shed real tears through Jewish history. The 9th of Av is also the anniversary of the destruction of both Temples as well as many other major tragedies of Jewish history such as the expulsion of the Jews from Spain, from England, and the outbreak of the First World War.

  The Haftorah reading is taken from Isaiah 1, a chapter that prophetically warns of the impending destruction of the first Temple. An examination of the details reveals that the Jewish people had not yet internalized the lessons of history that Moses had attempted to teach them. A reading of the Haftorah shows that the Jews of the period were diligently observing their duties toward God. They were offering the Temple sacrifices as proscribed, they were faithfully observing the tri-annual pilgrimage to the Temple, and they were being diligent in their prayers. Something else was missing, and it was this missing factor that caused the destruction:

    "How the faithful city has become a harlot! She had been full of justice, righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers! Your silver has become dross, your heady wine diluted with water. Your princes are wayward and associates of thieves; the whole of them loves bribery and pursue illegal payments; for the orphan they do not do justice, the cause of the widow does not come unto them." (Isaiah 1:21-23)

  The prophet brings us right back to Moses' non-sequitur. Once again it is a faulty justice system that is highlighted as the underlying cause of destruction. The Jewish justice system is the ultimate expression of the Jewish people's public attitude towards Torah observance. When the Jewish justice system reduces to no more than a method of settling disputes, it reflects an attitude towards the laws of the Torah that is similar to that of all law-abiding citizens observing any secular system. Torah law is like any other law. It must be observed in all particulars and all disputes must be settled according to its dictates. But this attitude misses the point of Torah law entirely.

  The laws of the Torah were given to us as a means of attaching our everyday lives to God by investing life's mundane details with significance and holiness. The Jewish judicial system is intended to bring God's justice into the world and to reflect the workings of a society that conducts its business affairs in the light of holiness. When it takes no notice of the oppression of the widow and the orphan, when it tolerates bribery and corruption, it indicates that it is nothing more than the Jewish method of settling human disputes. A society that has such notions is fundamentally lacking in holiness; it does not require the land of Israel or God's Temple within it.

  Jewish nationalism must be goal directed. Its aim can never be simply to live peacefully and securely within a Jewish secular state. It must be focused on the establishment of an intimate relationship between man and God, to teaching how you can live a normal life in this world and still be obviously God's holy people. The normal life patterns of everyday living in a Jewish state must be imbued with spirituality and reflect holiness. The aim of Jewish life is not the attainment of holiness through the performance of acts of devotion. The aim is not to step out of life into holiness; it is nothing short of the elevation of life itself.

  Each generation of Jews has to grapple with the same spiritual problems, and must aim to attain the identical goals. God constantly readjusts the circumstances of the struggle to conform with the capacity and cultural orientation of the particular generation of Jews living at the time, but it is never the historic task that changes, only the circumstances under which it needs to be carried out. If ever any generation fully succeeded at the task of demonstrating the potential Godliness in everyday life, the aim of Jewish history would be attained and the Messiah would finally come.

  The lessons of Moses apply to all Jews at all times. We must still correct our historic mistake. There cannot be a viable Jewish state in the Land of Israel that doesn't concern itself with connecting the secular trappings of statehood to God. In whatever fashion appropriate to the times, God must be at the center of the picture.


  This is a lesson for all of us in our daily lives. 
  It is not what we believe and study that counts but what we do in the service of HaShem as His faithful servants; bringing the Holy into every facet of our lives both spiritual and secular.
  Torah without the land makes HaShem's Abrahamic Covenant null and void.


  Shalom v'Ahavah,
  JOE.




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
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From RNDAVAR at aol.com  Sun Nov 30 21:25:56 2008
From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 22:25:56 EST
Subject: [Dialogue] Awesome Sunday Shul Lesson Tonight
Message-ID: <d40.2edf1c04.3664b344@aol.com>

Thanks Patty. I really appreciate the encouragement. The subject matter has  
been one of my favorites since I first heard James teach on it several  years 
ago.
 
I am excited about the developments (the new site, video, etc).  
 
I have this sense that things are about to "burst forth".
 
Ross K.  Nichols 
_www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) 


**************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW 
AOL.com. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002)
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From ptyler at aac-usa.com  Sun Nov 30 21:31:15 2008
From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty )
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 22:31:15 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] Awesome Sunday Shul Lesson Tonight
In-Reply-To: <d40.2edf1c04.3664b344@aol.com>
References: <d40.2edf1c04.3664b344@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00d401c95365$45707510$d0515f30$@com>

Hey Ross,

 

Sorry I missed you on the Chat. Thank you for starting this - it is so
important, especially for me, to have a FACE attached to the dialogue.
Sometimes it can become so impersonal that we forget we are talking to
PEOPLE - our family - and think we are talking instead to just another
computer.

 

May YHWH Bless You!!

 

Patty

 

From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org
[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of RNDAVAR at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 10:26 PM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Awesome Sunday Shul Lesson Tonight

 

Thanks Patty. I really appreciate the encouragement. The subject matter has
been one of my favorites since I first heard James teach on it several years
ago.

 

I am excited about the developments (the new site, video, etc).  

 

I have this sense that things are about to "burst forth".

 

Ross K. Nichols 
www.RootsofFaith.org <http://www.rootsoffaith.org/> 





  _____  

Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try
<http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000
002>  the NEW AOL.com.

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From RNDAVAR at aol.com  Sun Nov 30 23:01:09 2008
From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 00:01:09 EST
Subject: [Dialogue] The Buchari Kippah 
Message-ID: <c0d.4277ddc1.3664c995@aol.com>

I just have to tell you that I saw the coolest Kippah I have ever seen  
tonight. I'm not that big of "hat guy" but I really liked the one that  Simcha 
Jacobovici wears. It is called a Buchari Kippah. I had never seen one of  these 
until I met him in Charlotte last April.  I looked around and found  several 
sites on the web that had these but just never found the right  one....until 
tonight.
 
Glenn was one of the Roots of Faith congregants that made the trip to  
Charlotte with me in April. Most of you know him. He and his wife Rhonda are two  of 
my closest friends. One of their daughters (Connie) is on this list as  well.
 
So Glenn enters the synagogue tonight for Sunday Shul wearing the best  
looking Kippah that I have ever seen! My mouth dropped open. Here is my buddy  
wearing the kippah that I have always wanted! So I asked him where he got it and  
he tells me that Connie made it.
 
Not sure why I felt like I should share this experience on the list.   I 
guess it is a way to introduce Connie to the list for one thing.  I have  never 
met her in person but do know that she is quite the Bible student, has  
wonderful parents and is very skilled at making things with yarn!
 
Hope you don't mind Connie:)  Please put me on the list for one of  these and 
send the bill to your dad:)
 
On my blog 
(_http://rootsoffaith.org/blog-and-podcasts/2008/04/23/uiwu-conference.htm_ 
(http://rootsoffaith.org/blog-and-podcasts/2008/04/23/uiwu-conference.htm) )  there is a photo that Joy Beth took of a few of us in Charlotte last 
April.  Simcha is seen here wearing this style of Kippah. When I get mine I 
will wear it  while I teach.
 
James Tabor, me and my son Zachariah are the others in the photo.
 
Ross K.  Nichols 
_www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) 


**************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW 
AOL.com. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002)
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From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 30 23:08:55 2008
From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 00:08:55 -0500
Subject: [Dialogue] The Buchari Kippah 
In-Reply-To: <c0d.4277ddc1.3664c995@aol.com>
References: <c0d.4277ddc1.3664c995@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-DS3F53F30E8FFB58FD9C8F3BA010@phx.gbl>

Send us a photo of Glenn in his new Kippah, please!  Connie must be very talented indeed.  I want to learn how to make one too.  In fact, I would LOVE to learn to make one of these Kippahs.  Just got in a little while ago, so missed tonight's class, but will catch up this week.  I know it was great!  ~ Pat


From: RNDAVAR at aol.com 
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:01 AM
To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org 
Subject: [Dialogue] The Buchari Kippah 


I just have to tell you that I saw the coolest Kippah I have ever seen tonight. I'm not that big of "hat guy" but I really liked the one that Simcha Jacobovici wears. It is called a Buchari Kippah. I had never seen one of these until I met him in Charlotte last April.  I looked around and found several sites on the web that had these but just never found the right one....until tonight.

Glenn was one of the Roots of Faith congregants that made the trip to Charlotte with me in April. Most of you know him. He and his wife Rhonda are two of my closest friends. One of their daughters (Connie) is on this list as well.

So Glenn enters the synagogue tonight for Sunday Shul wearing the best looking Kippah that I have ever seen! My mouth dropped open. Here is my buddy wearing the kippah that I have always wanted! So I asked him where he got it and he tells me that Connie made it.

Not sure why I felt like I should share this experience on the list.  I guess it is a way to introduce Connie to the list for one thing.  I have never met her in person but do know that she is quite the Bible student, has wonderful parents and is very skilled at making things with yarn!

Hope you don't mind Connie:)  Please put me on the list for one of these and send the bill to your dad:)

On my blog (http://rootsoffaith.org/blog-and-podcasts/2008/04/23/uiwu-conference.htm) there is a photo that Joy Beth took of a few of us in Charlotte last April. Simcha is seen here wearing this style of Kippah. When I get mine I will wear it while I teach.

James Tabor, me and my son Zachariah are the others in the photo.

Ross K. Nichols 
www.RootsofFaith.org







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From RNDAVAR at aol.com  Sun Nov 30 23:18:43 2008
From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 00:18:43 EST
Subject: [Dialogue] The Buchari Kippah 
Message-ID: <d69.358604da.3664cdb3@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/30/2008 11:09:24 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com writes:

Send us  a photo of Glenn in his new Kippah, please!


Glenn,
 
Can you get a picture of yourself with the kippah up on the Synagogue  
without Walls site so people can see it (and you). Or better yet, let  me "borrow" 
it and I will take a picture of me wearing it. I'll give it back when mine 
arrives.  (Matthew 5:42).
 
Love and shalom, Ross
 
Ross K.  Nichols 
_www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) 


**************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW 
AOL.com. 
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