From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jan 1 15:44:47 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 16:44:47 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] A "Kodak Moment" Message-ID: <855590370901011344s7f5425dkcc6d9bf01879f745@mail.gmail.com> December 28th, right before Ayala went through Security at JFK to her flight home to Israel.... Hanoch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090101/6a81ae4d/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Thu Jan 1 16:40:26 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 17:40:26 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Emailing: Kabbalist Elder Gaza War Is Serious Threat - Defense-Middle East - Israel News - Israel National News Message-ID: <004501c96c61$f2a5cef0$0400a8c0@marvin> News Tevet 6, 5769 / January 2, '09 Kabbalist Elder Rabbi Eliyahu Leon Levi Kabbalist Elder Rabbi Eliyahu Leon Levi Check It Out More * 36 Terror Victims in 2008 Published: 01/01/09, 1:04 PM Kabbalist Elder: Gaza War Is Serious Threat by Baruch Gordon (IsraelNN.com) Speaking to a gathering of students Tuesday night, the elder Kabbalist, Rabbi Eliyahu Leon Levi of Bnei Brak, warned that the war against Hamas should not be taken lightly. "The Hamas has long-range Grad missiles that are aimed at our country?s strategic facilities," he stated. "The threat is a life and death danger for the people of Israel. Imagine the catastrophe if a nuclear facility was damaged, causing the release of radioactivity in the air. People must be awakened to the severity of the danger and the Israeli army must strike at the enemy with its full force, without any mercy and external considerations." Kabbalist Elder Eliyahu Leon Levi (left) with Chief Rabbi of Israel Yona Metzger On several occasions, Rabbi Leon tipped off the Israeli military about threats to the country's security. Years ago, the kabbalist elder revealed the existence of an extensive network of underground tunnels both on the Egyptian-Gaza border and in the Gaza Strip. On another occasion, the Rabbi alerted Colonel Moti Yogev who in turn reported to the Israel Air Force of the approach of an enemy ship, stockpiled with arms and missiles, on the way to Gaza. The air force checked out the ship, and Rabbi Leon's report was found to be accurate. The threat was dealt with. Rabbi Levy said that Gaza had become stockpiled with tens of thousands of missiles, like Lebanon. "Air force strikes are of limited effectiveness," he declared. The Hamas has built a massive network of deep underground storage facilities, fortified with layers of concrete." He said the missiles came from Iran, by way of Egypt. Once in Egypt, the missiles are transported by trucks to the border of Gaza, where they are smuggled into Gaza in small vehicles via a two-kilometer underground highway. "In this fashion," he explained, "Hamas is being supplied with an unlimited arsenal of weapons and supplies. Only ground forces can destroy this secret supply route, by locating the tunnels and blowing them up, even if it means casualties to our troops. This ground operation has to be carried out now, before it is too late," he warned. To support his forecast, he reminded the gathering of a miracle during the first Gulf War, during a prayer gathering of hundreds in Herzliya, a short distance away from the central gas storage facility, Glilot. During the prayers, the Rabbi said he ?received a spiritual fax,? that a rocket was on the way. In the words of Avraham Ben Shushan from Kiryat Arba who attended the prayer rally, "Rabbi Leon suddenly announced that a rocket was headed towards the area and that everyone should disperse and find cover." Moments thereafter, the sirens sounded and a missile landed nearby. ?They were aiming for the gas storage facility,? Rabbi Leon said, ?But our prayers knocked the missile off course.? In addition, he said, ?You don?t have to be a prophet to see the increasing sympathy for Hamas on the part of the Arabs in Israel. Danger threatens us from without and within.? Rabbi Leon said that every Jew had to enlist in the fight. ?Those of us who are not in the army must become spiritual soldiers with the same day-and-night spirit of sacrifice and sense of duty as our boys in uniform. It is our prayers that give fuel to our fighter planes and tanks and direct our missiles on course.? Rabbi Leon listed several spiritual offensives: In our battle against the Hamas, the Jewish people in Israel must unite by judging all Jews in a scale of merit, even blatant sinners. Even those who seem to transgress unwittingly out of compulsion, because of a lack of Jewish education and the cultural pollution of the times, we must view them with love and judge them favorably, the Rabbi urged. He also called upon students to increase supplications for salvation, including the tearful nightly recital of ?Tikun Hatzot,? the special midnight lament. Especially important, he emphasized, was the upcoming ?Shovavim? period , when for six weeks congregations will gather all over Israel for special prayers, called ?Tikun HaYesod,? over sexual transgressions. ?It is well known that our enemies arise against us due to our sins,? he reminded the crowd. ?By each and every one of us doing deep, heartfelt repentance, we can uproot and cancel the harsh decree. Through fervently praying with all of our souls, begging G-d to forgive us for the sins which have brought this cruel enemy upon us, we can influence the situation on the ground. Just as the united prayers of the Jewish people have brought us rain, so too they can save us from the present danger.? * Full Coverage: War in Gaza Sign up to receive the Daily Israel Report by email (Free) ? IsraelNN Syndications - This article may not be republished freely. Review what you can publish free of charge and what requires a syndication payment on the Syndications Page. Katyusha Hits Ashkelon, One Killed, 16 Wounded Far-Left Hamas Supporters Coming to Gaza by Sea Judaica Women's Page New and Exciting Made in Israel Yeshivas Jewelry ? Arutz Sheva, All Rights Reserved | Privacy Policy Home Page | Contact | Advertise | ????? ???? 7 Sites of Interest: Judaica Mall - Jewish Gifts _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090101/9ab5678b/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 3271 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090101/9ab5678b/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2362 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090101/9ab5678b/attachment-0007.jpe From jid at westnet.com.au Fri Jan 2 03:29:52 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:29:52 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Duck and Cover Message-ID: <495DDE90.5070605@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090102/a8d7d179/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Fri Jan 2 09:27:55 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:27:55 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] FW: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson Message-ID: <003701c96cee$b1e10460$0400a8c0@marvin> Interesting perdiction for the New Year. It is different then most you will see. I thought you might find it of interest. Have a happy as they say!. marvin _____ From: wisdomreb at meaningfullife.com [mailto:wisdomreb at meaningfullife.com] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 10:05 AM To: mhyde7 at tds.net Subject: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson This week at the MLC@ 6th, 325 E. 6th St., in Manhattan's East Village Fascinating new lecture series, w/ acclaimed international orator, Rabbi YY Jacobson The Comedy and Kabbalah of Relationships A candid discussion on the challenges of finding and maintaining healthy relationships 4-part Lecture Series, Tuesdays, January 6, 20, 27, February 17, 8:30PM, complete with curriculum and hand-outs. $15/lecture. $50/4-part series. ---> This week, Tuesday, January 6: Four Types of Intimacy: The Bible's Four Terms for Intimacy - Four Models for Relationships Register now. For more info and individual lecture topics, click here. Go to www.meaningfullife.com/classes for our complete programming schedule. ~~~~~ 2009 What Will the New Year Bring? A Prediction By Simon Jacobson 2008 is hardly the worst year in history, but it sure feels like it reading the news, blogs, commentaries and analysis of the past year. People are tentative and fearful. The mood is generally miserable. The outlook grim. 2008's economic meltdown - you can check out all the historic statistics on any popular website - is nowhere close to ending. A global recession, considered by many unprecedented, has suddenly erupted, with a domino effect continuing to ripple through the world. Mumbai has shaken us all up. The Middle East is at war again, or should I say, not at war again, but an ongoing battle that never seems to end. What is even more distressing is that Israel, perhaps for the first time in all of history, refuses to acknowledge that war has been declared against it, and to act accordingly and decisively, instead of just reacting to the latest missile attacks, second-guessing itself and moving forward with so much uncertainty. Read Israel Harel's article in Haaretz, Israel Blinked First. What will happen in the coming year? Will the new United States President change things, or will we have just more of the same? How many more foreclosures, bankruptcies, failed companies and financial institutions can we look forward to in 2009? What new revelations and corruptions will emerge? Will our economic systems fail completely or will they rebound? Are we headed toward better times or worse ones? The questions are many. Answers few, if any. Predicting what the new year will bring can seem quite presumptuous, if not outright folly. Yet, I will venture to do so anyway. No, I don't have a crystal ball. I have something far better. Read on. By looking back we can see ahead. The greatest guide for the future is the past. We cannot predict the coming year's events. But we can learn from those before us who have seen and experienced far worse than we will ever see, and rose above it. What is the secret of the resilience and power of heroic people who endured and thrived despite great suffering? One of the most remarkable and overlooked stories of history was the transcendent ability of Torah scholars to produce an enormous volume of literature despite the harshest circumstances surrounding them. Throughout the Early and Middle Ages, with Jewish persecution at its heights, sages like Rashi, Ramban, Rabbeinu Tam, Rashbam, the Tosafists and so many others - literally hundreds of scholars - wrote thousands of pages, containing the most brilliant and eloquent commentary you will ever read. And no where in their writings will you find complaints, bitterness, depression or demoralization. Pogroms, the crusades, persecutions, expulsions, inquisitions were ravaging Europe. But as much as you analyze their words, you will not uncover an iota of the tragic and difficult events taking place around them! Quite the contrary. Page after page is filled with inspiration, uplifting words, enormous strength and powerful insights. Usually, you would expect to find some mention or reference in a book to the personal challenges of the author. Often authors bare their souls and their life traumas in their writings. But even when they don't, with a bit of deconstruction and analysis, we can uncover the author's personal traumas. Indeed, entire studies today are dedicated to show us how to recognize in an author's words his abusive father and dysfunctional mother, every grievance against society can be seen in his pages. When it comes to our Torah sages, you find none of the sort. No fear, no tentativeness, nothing in their writings reflects the most trying challenges of their times! And what is even more amazing is that this is not an isolated case. Literally every scholar and sage, from the time of Moses, through all the ages, left us with a legacy of writings that reflect a higher world, not at all scarred or touched by the horrible events of the world below. Where did they have the composure, the presence of mind, to focus and produce such clarity? How were they able to not be overcome by doubts and fears for themselves and their families welfare? Take Joseph in this week's Torah portion: Despite his travails - sold by his own brothers into slavery, 22 years torn away from his beloved father, orphaned from his mother Rachel - you would think that he would have retained some bitterness. In fact, when Joseph finally reveals himself to his brothers, instead of fury and revenge, despite his great suffering, Joseph ends up calming his mortified brothers: "Do not feel guilty," he tells them, "for it is not you who sent me here, but G-d," in order to save lives! ( See this article). Simply remarkable. A powerful lesson for all history. Where did Joseph find such strength of character, such power, to not allow his circumstances to shape his life, and instead he shaped his circumstances? Was Joseph - and all the Middle Age sages - out of touch? Hardly. They were keenly aware and sensitive to the welfare of their own children. Yet, they still were able to rise above the fray. How? The answer lies in a powerful expression: "az men iz tzugebunden oiben, falt men nischt unten." When you are bound above, you don't fall below. This is the secret of transcendence: the ability to not be defined by the events around us; the recognition that we are products of our own perceptions, and we write the script of our own destinies. Worship man-made devices below, and your life will be determined by your attitude. Connect to the sublime above, and you will be able to rise above the immediate events and move forward with fortitude and optimism. If you feel that mortals - or money - control the forces of your life, then you have delivered your own verdict: You will be subject to these forces, with all their unpredictability. If however, like Joseph, you recognize that the circumstances of your life are driven by a higher hand, and nothing, absolutely nothing that humans do can control your destiny, then you have freed yourself from the behavior of others, and can ride through the challenges and even discover how they have empowered you to "save lives." The very question - "what will be?" "what will happen?" - is our undoing. If you feel that things "happen" to you, or that you "find yourself" in a predicament or situation, then you have relinquished control, and surrendered your destiny to the "things" that you empower. The secret to success in the new year is to not empower the weak forces that drive fear into our hearts. But to empower your own soul; to recognize that you have within yourself all the necessary strength to fulfill your life's mission. To realize that things don't happen to you; you make things happen. You don't "find yourself" in situations; you place yourself in them. We cannot control the events to come. But we can certainly control whether and how we will be influenced by them. Good ships are not those that can stop the storms or tame the waves; they are the ones that ride the swells, confident in their own ability to know when to thrust forward and when to slow down. Not to minimize the challenges of our times, but we can hardly call 2008 the worst year in history. By looking back to far worse years we can learn how to proceed. And how much of our troubles are actually psychological? Imagine, if a critical mass would have a change of attitude, and learn from our predecessors how to "bind" ourselves to that which is "above." But for now, before we address the critical mass, let us look at ourselves. No, we do not know what the new year will bring. But I will make confident prediction: Your attitude will define your year. No matter what happens this year, whatever up and downs will be coming our way, your destiny will be shaped by your attitudes; you will experience exactly what you allow yourself to experience: You will either be dragged down by the gravitational pull of the earth that you worship, or you will be lifted on the wings of your soul that you believe in. ~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090102/ca5f2425/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Fri Jan 2 10:38:52 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:38:52 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Lights in our dwellings In-Reply-To: References: <49508534.7060704@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <959ED36A87BF41C2B9F2A268490F17F5@bettylaptop> Shalom Web, I am way behind on my email and trying to catch up a little at a time. And just wanted to say that I hope your Chanukah party gathering went well and that your place of meeting was lit up with lots of light! Thank you for this teaching. May we all put away whatever kind of darkness and depression that is lurking in our hearts and may we reflect the glow of HaShem's Presence in our dwellings and in our lives as we reach out to one another and those around us with His incredible Love. May you and all have a Shabbat Shalom! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Ronnie Hulon Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 12:43 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Lights in our dwellings Shalom all, This is a short teaching that I will be sharing at our community Chanukah party this evening. Exod 10:21-23 21 Then YHWH said to Moshe, "Stretch out your hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, darkness which may even be felt." 22 So Moses stretched out his hand toward heaven, and there was thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days. 23 They did not see one another; nor did anyone rise from his place for three days. But all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings. What kind of darkness can be felt? Depression. Depression is often a result of concentrating on ourselves. It may come from focusing on what we are missing or what we have lost or what we wish we had or many other selfish longings. We can see this in this passage. Speaking of the Egyptians cursed by the darkness, Moshe writes: "They did not see one another." In Hebrew it says "Lo'- raa'uw 'iysh 'et- 'aachiyw" - no man saw or perceived his brother. Leviticus 19:18 says: 'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am YHWH. There is no way that we can "not see our brother" and still love our neighbor as ourself. The cure to the darkness and depression of self is to see our brothers and sisters. See them and serve them. It is hard to be depressed when you are serving someone else. We see that in the houses of the Yisraelites we had the opposite situation: "But all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings." We can overcome the darkness in our lives by serving one another, by dwelling together in unity. May your dwellings be filled with light as you kindle the lights of Chanukah. Web Hulon _____ _____ It's the same HotmailR. If by "same" you mean up to 70% faster. Get your account now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090102/63b2dbe0/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Fri Jan 2 11:06:11 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:06:11 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Quote of the Day In-Reply-To: <959ED36A87BF41C2B9F2A268490F17F5@bettylaptop> References: <49508534.7060704@westnet.com.au> <959ED36A87BF41C2B9F2A268490F17F5@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <02f401c96cfc$6b102b70$41308250$@com> So, what have we learned in 2 millennia? "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." - Cicero - 55 BC Evidently nothing. Shabbat Shalom, Patty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090102/f22c6247/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Fri Jan 2 11:23:45 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 11:23:45 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayers Answered for Rudy! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15DBCB689F5C4861B94C5E10ECF71C70@bettylaptop> This is truly wonderful news, Pat. Baruch HaShem! Thanks so much for letting us know. Rudy has indeed been a "miracle" and such a blessing to all of us in our gatherings in the past! It is good to know that another "miracle" has been performed in his life and that all around, including his cardiologist, readily acknowledge it! Now.on to therapy.right!? I am sure Rudy will have much to say about that! Love and Blessings, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Robbins Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:37 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Prayers Answered for Rudy! Heard from Linda (Rudy's wife) this evening. HaShem has answered the precious prayers of His people and Rudy is much improved!!! In fact, Linda said that his Cardiologist told him today, "You are unbelievable and actually I have to say that you are a MIRACLE! I've never seen anyone going in with your risks who would ever be this far ahead in recovery." BARUCH HASHEM!!!!! OUR G-D REIGNS!!!!!!! Thank you all so much, and please do still remember Rudy as the L-RD brings him to your mind. Love, Pat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090102/dd836f42/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Fri Jan 2 12:17:27 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:17:27 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] FW: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson In-Reply-To: <003701c96cee$b1e10460$0400a8c0@marvin> References: <003701c96cee$b1e10460$0400a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: Thank you so much for this, Marvin. We can never underestimate the power of the human heart and mind empowered by the Almighty! May we indeed be lifted up on the wings of eagles amidst all the gloom and doom surrounding us! Love & Blessings to all this coming year! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of mhyde Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:28 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] FW: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson Interesting perdiction for the New Year. It is different then most you will see. I thought you might find it of interest. Have a happy as they say!. marvin _____ From: wisdomreb at meaningfullife.com [mailto:wisdomreb at meaningfullife.com] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 10:05 AM To: mhyde7 at tds.net Subject: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson This week at the MLC@ 6th, 325 E. 6th St., in Manhattan's East Village Fascinating new lecture series, w/ acclaimed international orator, Rabbi YY Jacobson The Comedy and Kabbalah of Relationships A candid discussion on the challenges of finding and maintaining healthy relationships 4-part Lecture Series, Tuesdays, January 6, 20, 27, February 17, 8:30PM, complete with curriculum and hand-outs. $15/lecture. $50/4-part series. ---> This week, Tuesday, January 6: Four Types of Intimacy: The Bible's Four Terms for Intimacy - Four Models for Relationships Register now. For more info and individual lecture topics, click here. Go to www.meaningfullife.com/classes for our complete programming schedule. ~~~~~ 2009 What Will the New Year Bring? A Prediction By Simon Jacobson 2008 is hardly the worst year in history, but it sure feels like it reading the news, blogs, commentaries and analysis of the past year. People are tentative and fearful. The mood is generally miserable. The outlook grim. 2008's economic meltdown - you can check out all the historic statistics on any popular website - is nowhere close to ending. A global recession, considered by many unprecedented, has suddenly erupted, with a domino effect continuing to ripple through the world. Mumbai has shaken us all up. The Middle East is at war again, or should I say, not at war again, but an ongoing battle that never seems to end. What is even more distressing is that Israel, perhaps for the first time in all of history, refuses to acknowledge that war has been declared against it, and to act accordingly and decisively, instead of just reacting to the latest missile attacks, second-guessing itself and moving forward with so much uncertainty. Read Israel Harel's article in Haaretz, Israel Blinked First. What will happen in the coming year? Will the new United States President change things, or will we have just more of the same? How many more foreclosures, bankruptcies, failed companies and financial institutions can we look forward to in 2009? What new revelations and corruptions will emerge? Will our economic systems fail completely or will they rebound? Are we headed toward better times or worse ones? The questions are many. Answers few, if any. Predicting what the new year will bring can seem quite presumptuous, if not outright folly. Yet, I will venture to do so anyway. No, I don't have a crystal ball. I have something far better. Read on. By looking back we can see ahead. The greatest guide for the future is the past. We cannot predict the coming year's events. But we can learn from those before us who have seen and experienced far worse than we will ever see, and rose above it. What is the secret of the resilience and power of heroic people who endured and thrived despite great suffering? One of the most remarkable and overlooked stories of history was the transcendent ability of Torah scholars to produce an enormous volume of literature despite the harshest circumstances surrounding them. Throughout the Early and Middle Ages, with Jewish persecution at its heights, sages like Rashi, Ramban, Rabbeinu Tam, Rashbam, the Tosafists and so many others - literally hundreds of scholars - wrote thousands of pages, containing the most brilliant and eloquent commentary you will ever read. And no where in their writings will you find complaints, bitterness, depression or demoralization. Pogroms, the crusades, persecutions, expulsions, inquisitions were ravaging Europe. But as much as you analyze their words, you will not uncover an iota of the tragic and difficult events taking place around them! Quite the contrary. Page after page is filled with inspiration, uplifting words, enormous strength and powerful insights. Usually, you would expect to find some mention or reference in a book to the personal challenges of the author. Often authors bare their souls and their life traumas in their writings. But even when they don't, with a bit of deconstruction and analysis, we can uncover the author's personal traumas. Indeed, entire studies today are dedicated to show us how to recognize in an author's words his abusive father and dysfunctional mother, every grievance against society can be seen in his pages. When it comes to our Torah sages, you find none of the sort. No fear, no tentativeness, nothing in their writings reflects the most trying challenges of their times! And what is even more amazing is that this is not an isolated case. Literally every scholar and sage, from the time of Moses, through all the ages, left us with a legacy of writings that reflect a higher world, not at all scarred or touched by the horrible events of the world below. Where did they have the composure, the presence of mind, to focus and produce such clarity? How were they able to not be overcome by doubts and fears for themselves and their families welfare? Take Joseph in this week's Torah portion: Despite his travails - sold by his own brothers into slavery, 22 years torn away from his beloved father, orphaned from his mother Rachel - you would think that he would have retained some bitterness. In fact, when Joseph finally reveals himself to his brothers, instead of fury and revenge, despite his great suffering, Joseph ends up calming his mortified brothers: "Do not feel guilty," he tells them, "for it is not you who sent me here, but G-d," in order to save lives! ( See this article). Simply remarkable. A powerful lesson for all history. Where did Joseph find such strength of character, such power, to not allow his circumstances to shape his life, and instead he shaped his circumstances? Was Joseph - and all the Middle Age sages - out of touch? Hardly. They were keenly aware and sensitive to the welfare of their own children. Yet, they still were able to rise above the fray. How? The answer lies in a powerful expression: "az men iz tzugebunden oiben, falt men nischt unten." When you are bound above, you don't fall below. This is the secret of transcendence: the ability to not be defined by the events around us; the recognition that we are products of our own perceptions, and we write the script of our own destinies. Worship man-made devices below, and your life will be determined by your attitude. Connect to the sublime above, and you will be able to rise above the immediate events and move forward with fortitude and optimism. If you feel that mortals - or money - control the forces of your life, then you have delivered your own verdict: You will be subject to these forces, with all their unpredictability. If however, like Joseph, you recognize that the circumstances of your life are driven by a higher hand, and nothing, absolutely nothing that humans do can control your destiny, then you have freed yourself from the behavior of others, and can ride through the challenges and even discover how they have empowered you to "save lives." The very question - "what will be?" "what will happen?" - is our undoing. If you feel that things "happen" to you, or that you "find yourself" in a predicament or situation, then you have relinquished control, and surrendered your destiny to the "things" that you empower. The secret to success in the new year is to not empower the weak forces that drive fear into our hearts. But to empower your own soul; to recognize that you have within yourself all the necessary strength to fulfill your life's mission. To realize that things don't happen to you; you make things happen. You don't "find yourself" in situations; you place yourself in them. We cannot control the events to come. But we can certainly control whether and how we will be influenced by them. Good ships are not those that can stop the storms or tame the waves; they are the ones that ride the swells, confident in their own ability to know when to thrust forward and when to slow down. Not to minimize the challenges of our times, but we can hardly call 2008 the worst year in history. By looking back to far worse years we can learn how to proceed. And how much of our troubles are actually psychological? Imagine, if a critical mass would have a change of attitude, and learn from our predecessors how to "bind" ourselves to that which is "above." But for now, before we address the critical mass, let us look at ourselves. No, we do not know what the new year will bring. But I will make confident prediction: Your attitude will define your year. No matter what happens this year, whatever up and downs will be coming our way, your destiny will be shaped by your attitudes; you will experience exactly what you allow yourself to experience: You will either be dragged down by the gravitational pull of the earth that you worship, or you will be lifted on the wings of your soul that you believe in. ~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090102/1ff3aa5a/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 15:00:30 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:00:30 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer for Israel in Wartime Message-ID: <855590370901021300q63de3fbdt64d508ce3cdf0520@mail.gmail.com> Prayer for the South in Wartime Tevet 6, 5769, 02 January 09 10:37 by by Hana Levi Julian (IsraelNN.com) A new prayer written specifically for the besieged residents of southern Israel was approved this week by the Rishon LeTzion, former Sephardic Chief Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu. The prayer, which several youth movements have already adopted, has been distributed among both religious and secular Israelis. The seven-line supplication asks G-d to protect residents of the south and IDF soldiers fighting terrorism. It also asks Him to grant wisdom and strength to Israel's leaders. It can be recited at any time, but is being recommended specifically for times in public prayer when brief personal prayers are offered, and whenever a rocket launch is reported. *English Translation* "May it be Your Will, L-rd our G-d and G-d of our forefathers, that You will have mercy on us and on all the residents of the south. Protect us in the bounty of your kindness and spread out over us the shelter of Your peace. Strengthen the arms of the fighting soldiers who protect us and give their souls for us. Protect them and guard them from all misfortune. Foil the plans of our haters and enemies; "Their swords shall plunge into their hearts and their bows shall break." Sovereign of the Universe, give our leaders wisdom and courage and strength of heart to annihilate all of our enemies, and let the prayer of King David, may he rest in peace, come true regarding them: "I shall chase after my enemies and I shall catch up to them and I will not return until they are destroyed." Amen. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090102/a76fca81/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Fri Jan 2 15:29:02 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:29:02 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Quote of the Day In-Reply-To: <02f401c96cfc$6b102b70$41308250$@com> References: <49508534.7060704@westnet.com.au> <959ED36A87BF41C2B9F2A268490F17F5@bettylaptop> <02f401c96cfc$6b102b70$41308250$@com> Message-ID: <010220092129.28239.495E871E0006609500006E4F22230650629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." >From the writings of George Santayana, 1905. -- John C. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Patty " : -------------- So, what have we learned in 2 millennia? "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." - Cicero - 55 BC Evidently nothing. Shabbat Shalom, Patty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090102/2f6b02ed/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Sat Jan 3 06:48:56 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 07:48:56 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] FW: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson In-Reply-To: References: <003701c96cee$b1e10460$0400a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <009901c96da1$a54f7520$0400a8c0@marvin> Hi Betty, I hope all is well with you and Roger. A couple of things to point out in this post from Simon Jacobson. The first is the point he makes of the Rabbi's and Sages of the Jewish writings. He starts off with, "One of the most remarkable and overlooked stories of history was the transcendent ability of Torah scholars to produce an enormous volume of literature despite the harshest circumstances surrounding them." His comments that follow are something to really think about and apply to our own life's. How many times have our "troubles" affected us and many times when we find ourselves in pain. everyone around us knows about it. :) The second point that really connected with my spirit is Jacobson's comments about Joseph. Jacobson said. "Where did Joseph find such strength of character, such power, to not allow his circumstances to shape his life, and instead he shaped his circumstances? Was Joseph - and all the Middle Age sages - out of touch? Hardly. They were keenly aware and sensitive to the welfare of their own children. Yet, they still were able to rise above the fray. How? The answer lies in a powerful expression: "az men iz tzugebunden oiben, falt men nischt unten." When you are bound above, you don't fall below. This is the secret of transcendence: the ability to not be defined by the events around us; the recognition that we are products of our own perceptions, and we write the script of our own destinies. Worship man-made devices below, and your life will be determined by your attitude. Connect to the sublime above, and you will be able to rise above the immediate events and move forward with fortitude and optimism. If you feel that mortals - or money - control the forces of your life, then you have delivered your own verdict: You will be subject to these forces, with all their unpredictability. If however, like Joseph, you recognize that the circumstances of your life are driven by a higher hand, and nothing, absolutely nothing that humans do can control your destiny, then you have freed yourself from the behavior of others, and can ride through the challenges and even discover how they have empowered you to "save lives.".." Again, much here to sit and meditate and pray about. If we can ever get to the place where we truly believe, know, understand like Joseph that YHVH is in control. Shalom' Marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Betty Givin Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 1:17 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] FW: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson Thank you so much for this, Marvin. We can never underestimate the power of the human heart and mind empowered by the Almighty! May we indeed be lifted up on the wings of eagles amidst all the gloom and doom surrounding us! Love & Blessings to all this coming year! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of mhyde Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:28 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] FW: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson Interesting prediction for the New Year. It is different then most you will see. I thought you might find it of interest. Have a happy as they say!. Marvin _____ From: wisdomreb at meaningfullife.com [mailto:wisdomreb at meaningfullife.com] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 10:05 AM To: mhyde7 at tds.net Subject: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson This week at the MLC@ 6th, 325 E. 6th St., in Manhattan's East Village Fascinating new lecture series, w/ acclaimed international orator, Rabbi YY Jacobson The Comedy and Kabbalah of Relationships A candid discussion on the challenges of finding and maintaining healthy relationships 4-part Lecture Series, Tuesdays, January 6, 20, 27, February 17, 8:30PM, complete with curriculum and hand-outs. $15/lecture. $50/4-part series. ---> This week, Tuesday, January 6: Four Types of Intimacy: The Bible's Four Terms for Intimacy - Four Models for Relationships Register now. For more info and individual lecture topics, click here. Go to www.meaningfullife.com/classes for our complete programming schedule. ~~~~~ 2009 What Will the New Year Bring? A Prediction By Simon Jacobson 2008 is hardly the worst year in history, but it sure feels like it reading the news, blogs, commentaries and analysis of the past year. People are tentative and fearful. The mood is generally miserable. The outlook grim. 2008's economic meltdown - you can check out all the historic statistics on any popular website - is nowhere close to ending. A global recession, considered by many unprecedented, has suddenly erupted, with a domino effect continuing to ripple through the world. Mumbai has shaken us all up. The Middle East is at war again, or should I say, not at war again, but an ongoing battle that never seems to end. What is even more distressing is that Israel, perhaps for the first time in all of history, refuses to acknowledge that war has been declared against it, and to act accordingly and decisively, instead of just reacting to the latest missile attacks, second-guessing itself and moving forward with so much uncertainty. Read Israel Harel's article in Haaretz, Israel Blinked First. What will happen in the coming year? Will the new United States President change things, or will we have just more of the same? How many more foreclosures, bankruptcies, failed companies and financial institutions can we look forward to in 2009? What new revelations and corruptions will emerge? Will our economic systems fail completely or will they rebound? Are we headed toward better times or worse ones? The questions are many. Answers few, if any. Predicting what the new year will bring can seem quite presumptuous, if not outright folly. Yet, I will venture to do so anyway. No, I don't have a crystal ball. I have something far better. Read on. By looking back we can see ahead. The greatest guide for the future is the past. We cannot predict the coming year's events. But we can learn from those before us who have seen and experienced far worse than we will ever see, and rose above it. What is the secret of the resilience and power of heroic people who endured and thrived despite great suffering? One of the most remarkable and overlooked stories of history was the transcendent ability of Torah scholars to produce an enormous volume of literature despite the harshest circumstances surrounding them. Throughout the Early and Middle Ages, with Jewish persecution at its heights, sages like Rashi, Ramban, Rabbeinu Tam, Rashbam, the Tosafists and so many others - literally hundreds of scholars - wrote thousands of pages, containing the most brilliant and eloquent commentary you will ever read. And no where in their writings will you find complaints, bitterness, depression or demoralization. Pogroms, the crusades, persecutions, expulsions, inquisitions were ravaging Europe. But as much as you analyze their words, you will not uncover an iota of the tragic and difficult events taking place around them! Quite the contrary. Page after page is filled with inspiration, uplifting words, enormous strength and powerful insights. Usually, you would expect to find some mention or reference in a book to the personal challenges of the author. Often authors bare their souls and their life traumas in their writings. But even when they don't, with a bit of deconstruction and analysis, we can uncover the author's personal traumas. Indeed, entire studies today are dedicated to show us how to recognize in an author's words his abusive father and dysfunctional mother, every grievance against society can be seen in his pages. When it comes to our Torah sages, you find none of the sort. No fear, no tentativeness, nothing in their writings reflects the most trying challenges of their times! And what is even more amazing is that this is not an isolated case. Literally every scholar and sage, from the time of Moses, through all the ages, left us with a legacy of writings that reflect a higher world, not at all scarred or touched by the horrible events of the world below. Where did they have the composure, the presence of mind, to focus and produce such clarity? How were they able to not be overcome by doubts and fears for themselves and their families welfare? Take Joseph in this week's Torah portion: Despite his travails - sold by his own brothers into slavery, 22 years torn away from his beloved father, orphaned from his mother Rachel - you would think that he would have retained some bitterness. In fact, when Joseph finally reveals himself to his brothers, instead of fury and revenge, despite his great suffering, Joseph ends up calming his mortified brothers: "Do not feel guilty," he tells them, "for it is not you who sent me here, but G-d," in order to save lives! ( See this article). Simply remarkable. A powerful lesson for all history. Where did Joseph find such strength of character, such power, to not allow his circumstances to shape his life, and instead he shaped his circumstances? Was Joseph - and all the Middle Age sages - out of touch? Hardly. They were keenly aware and sensitive to the welfare of their own children. Yet, they still were able to rise above the fray. How? The answer lies in a powerful expression: "az men iz tzugebunden oiben, falt men nischt unten." When you are bound above, you don't fall below. This is the secret of transcendence: the ability to not be defined by the events around us; the recognition that we are products of our own perceptions, and we write the script of our own destinies. Worship man-made devices below, and your life will be determined by your attitude. Connect to the sublime above, and you will be able to rise above the immediate events and move forward with fortitude and optimism. If you feel that mortals - or money - control the forces of your life, then you have delivered your own verdict: You will be subject to these forces, with all their unpredictability. If however, like Joseph, you recognize that the circumstances of your life are driven by a higher hand, and nothing, absolutely nothing that humans do can control your destiny, then you have freed yourself from the behavior of others, and can ride through the challenges and even discover how they have empowered you to "save lives." The very question - "what will be?" "what will happen?" - is our undoing. If you feel that things "happen" to you, or that you "find yourself" in a predicament or situation, then you have relinquished control, and surrendered your destiny to the "things" that you empower. The secret to success in the new year is to not empower the weak forces that drive fear into our hearts. But to empower your own soul; to recognize that you have within yourself all the necessary strength to fulfill your life's mission. To realize that things don't happen to you; you make things happen. You don't "find yourself" in situations; you place yourself in them. We cannot control the events to come. But we can certainly control whether and how we will be influenced by them. Good ships are not those that can stop the storms or tame the waves; they are the ones that ride the swells, confident in their own ability to know when to thrust forward and when to slow down. Not to minimize the challenges of our times, but we can hardly call 2008 the worst year in history. By looking back to far worse years we can learn how to proceed. And how much of our troubles are actually psychological? Imagine, if a critical mass would have a change of attitude, and learn from our predecessors how to "bind" ourselves to that which is "above." But for now, before we address the critical mass, let us look at ourselves. No, we do not know what the new year will bring. But I will make confident prediction: Your attitude will define your year. No matter what happens this year, whatever up and downs will be coming our way, your destiny will be shaped by your attitudes; you will experience exactly what you allow yourself to experience: You will either be dragged down by the gravitational pull of the earth that you worship, or you will be lifted on the wings of your soul that you believe in. ~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090103/8a953334/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 19:39:08 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:39:08 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] An important message from the people in Sderot, Israel Message-ID: <855590370901031739h56663a72n1f37312468314b1@mail.gmail.com> Please click on this link and then click on the play button 15 Seconds Hanoch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090103/43bfcc1e/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sat Jan 3 19:48:20 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:48:20 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] FW: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson In-Reply-To: <003701c96cee$b1e10460$0400a8c0@marvin> References: <003701c96cee$b1e10460$0400a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: Marvin, this was wonderful! Thank you so much for sharing it. I highlighted many portions of it and saved it to my computer. I also forwarded it to friends. I love it so much. ~Pat From: mhyde Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 10:27 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] FW: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson Interesting perdiction for the New Year. It is different then most you will see. I thought you might find it of interest. Have a happy as they say!. marvin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wisdomreb at meaningfullife.com [mailto:wisdomreb at meaningfullife.com] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 10:05 AM To: mhyde7 at tds.net Subject: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson This week at the MLC@ 6th, 325 E. 6th St., in Manhattan's East Village Fascinating new lecture series, w/ acclaimed international orator, Rabbi YY Jacobson The Comedy and Kabbalah of Relationships A candid discussion on the challenges of finding and maintaining healthy relationships 4-part Lecture Series, Tuesdays, January 6, 20, 27, February 17, 8:30PM, complete with curriculum and hand-outs. $15/lecture. $50/4-part series. ---> This week, Tuesday, January 6: Four Types of Intimacy: The Bible's Four Terms for Intimacy - Four Models for Relationships Register now. For more info and individual lecture topics, click here. Go to www.meaningfullife.com/classes for our complete programming schedule. ~~~~~ 2009 What Will the New Year Bring? A Prediction By Simon Jacobson 2008 is hardly the worst year in history, but it sure feels like it reading the news, blogs, commentaries and analysis of the past year. People are tentative and fearful. The mood is generally miserable. The outlook grim. 2008's economic meltdown - you can check out all the historic statistics on any popular website - is nowhere close to ending. A global recession, considered by many unprecedented, has suddenly erupted, with a domino effect continuing to ripple through the world. Mumbai has shaken us all up. The Middle East is at war again, or should I say, not at war again, but an ongoing battle that never seems to end. What is even more distressing is that Israel, perhaps for the first time in all of history, refuses to acknowledge that war has been declared against it, and to act accordingly and decisively, instead of just reacting to the latest missile attacks, second-guessing itself and moving forward with so much uncertainty. Read Israel Harel's article in Haaretz, Israel Blinked First. What will happen in the coming year? Will the new United States President change things, or will we have just more of the same? How many more foreclosures, bankruptcies, failed companies and financial institutions can we look forward to in 2009? What new revelations and corruptions will emerge? Will our economic systems fail completely or will they rebound? Are we headed toward better times or worse ones? The questions are many. Answers few, if any. Predicting what the new year will bring can seem quite presumptuous, if not outright folly. Yet, I will venture to do so anyway. No, I don't have a crystal ball. I have something far better. Read on. By looking back we can see ahead. The greatest guide for the future is the past. We cannot predict the coming year's events. But we can learn from those before us who have seen and experienced far worse than we will ever see, and rose above it. What is the secret of the resilience and power of heroic people who endured and thrived despite great suffering? One of the most remarkable and overlooked stories of history was the transcendent ability of Torah scholars to produce an enormous volume of literature despite the harshest circumstances surrounding them. Throughout the Early and Middle Ages, with Jewish persecution at its heights, sages like Rashi, Ramban, Rabbeinu Tam, Rashbam, the Tosafists and so many others - literally hundreds of scholars - wrote thousands of pages, containing the most brilliant and eloquent commentary you will ever read. And no where in their writings will you find complaints, bitterness, depression or demoralization. Pogroms, the crusades, persecutions, expulsions, inquisitions were ravaging Europe. But as much as you analyze their words, you will not uncover an iota of the tragic and difficult events taking place around them! Quite the contrary. Page after page is filled with inspiration, uplifting words, enormous strength and powerful insights. Usually, you would expect to find some mention or reference in a book to the personal challenges of the author. Often authors bare their souls and their life traumas in their writings. But even when they don't, with a bit of deconstruction and analysis, we can uncover the author's personal traumas. Indeed, entire studies today are dedicated to show us how to recognize in an author's words his abusive father and dysfunctional mother, every grievance against society can be seen in his pages. When it comes to our Torah sages, you find none of the sort. No fear, no tentativeness, nothing in their writings reflects the most trying challenges of their times! And what is even more amazing is that this is not an isolated case. Literally every scholar and sage, from the time of Moses, through all the ages, left us with a legacy of writings that reflect a higher world, not at all scarred or touched by the horrible events of the world below. Where did they have the composure, the presence of mind, to focus and produce such clarity? How were they able to not be overcome by doubts and fears for themselves and their families welfare? Take Joseph in this week's Torah portion: Despite his travails - sold by his own brothers into slavery, 22 years torn away from his beloved father, orphaned from his mother Rachel - you would think that he would have retained some bitterness. In fact, when Joseph finally reveals himself to his brothers, instead of fury and revenge, despite his great suffering, Joseph ends up calming his mortified brothers: "Do not feel guilty," he tells them, "for it is not you who sent me here, but G-d," in order to save lives! (See this article). Simply remarkable. A powerful lesson for all history. Where did Joseph find such strength of character, such power, to not allow his circumstances to shape his life, and instead he shaped his circumstances? Was Joseph - and all the Middle Age sages - out of touch? Hardly. They were keenly aware and sensitive to the welfare of their own children. Yet, they still were able to rise above the fray. How? The answer lies in a powerful expression: "az men iz tzugebunden oiben, falt men nischt unten." When you are bound above, you don't fall below. This is the secret of transcendence: the ability to not be defined by the events around us; the recognition that we are products of our own perceptions, and we write the script of our own destinies. Worship man-made devices below, and your life will be determined by your attitude. Connect to the sublime above, and you will be able to rise above the immediate events and move forward with fortitude and optimism. If you feel that mortals - or money - control the forces of your life, then you have delivered your own verdict: You will be subject to these forces, with all their unpredictability. If however, like Joseph, you recognize that the circumstances of your life are driven by a higher hand, and nothing, absolutely nothing that humans do can control your destiny, then you have freed yourself from the behavior of others, and can ride through the challenges and even discover how they have empowered you to "save lives." The very question - "what will be?" "what will happen?" - is our undoing. If you feel that things "happen" to you, or that you "find yourself" in a predicament or situation, then you have relinquished control, and surrendered your destiny to the "things" that you empower. The secret to success in the new year is to not empower the weak forces that drive fear into our hearts. But to empower your own soul; to recognize that you have within yourself all the necessary strength to fulfill your life's mission. To realize that things don't happen to you; you make things happen. You don't "find yourself" in situations; you place yourself in them. We cannot control the events to come. But we can certainly control whether and how we will be influenced by them. Good ships are not those that can stop the storms or tame the waves; they are the ones that ride the swells, confident in their own ability to know when to thrust forward and when to slow down. Not to minimize the challenges of our times, but we can hardly call 2008 the worst year in history. By looking back to far worse years we can learn how to proceed. And how much of our troubles are actually psychological? Imagine, if a critical mass would have a change of attitude, and learn from our predecessors how to "bind" ourselves to that which is "above." But for now, before we address the critical mass, let us look at ourselves. No, we do not know what the new year will bring. But I will make confident prediction: Your attitude will define your year. No matter what happens this year, whatever up and downs will be coming our way, your destiny will be shaped by your attitudes; you will experience exactly what you allow yourself to experience: You will either be dragged down by the gravitational pull of the earth that you worship, or you will be lifted on the wings of your soul that you believe in. ~~~~~ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090103/516646b9/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sat Jan 3 19:54:35 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:54:35 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Israel's Response Is Disproportionate Message-ID: Israel's Response Is Disproportionate By Jonathan Mark JewishWorldReview.com | I condemn Israel's disproportionate attack on Hamas because, so far, it has only lasted four days and I would like to see a proportionate response that terrifies Hamas for seven years, the years that have filled Sderot and neighboring towns with nightmares, death, amputations and trauma coming from rockets and mortars fired from Gaza. Perhaps a proportionate response would have Gaza's leaders fearful of being killed every day for the next two years, as Gilad Shalit has been terrified of torture and death every day for the last two years in his solitary Gaza dungeon. A proportionate response would have Hamas mothers and fathers as fearful for their children's lives as Shalit's mother and father have been fearful for Gilad's life. A proportionate response would have Gaza's children crying for their mommies and daddies, the way at a Hamas pageant earlier in December a Palestinian actor dressed as Shalit got down on his knees, mock-begging in Hebrew for his Ima and Abba while the Gaza crowds laughed. A proportionate response would so intimidate Hamas that they will grovel and, as a "gesture," send cocoa and jam into Sderot, the way Israel has groveled in response to rockets from Hamas, sending cocoa and jam into Gaza. Imagine Churchill sending cocoa and jam into Berlin as a humanitarian gesture after - during - the bombing of London. A proportionate response would be one that will convince Hamas there is no military solution, no solution but surrender. They can then call surrender a "peace process," if they like, just as the mostly unanswered attacks on Jews have convinced some Jews that there is no military solution but surrender to any and all demands. They suggest a euthanasia by the euphemism of "peace process," that Israel become what some are already planning to call "Canaan," a non-Jewish state of all its citizens. A proportionate response will convince Palestinians that if they insist that the starting point to peace negotiations is that no Jew be allowed to live on the West Bank, the proportionate response will be that Israel's starting point in negotiations is that no Arab be allowed to live in Tel Aviv. Horrible to contemplate? Fine, let there be a proportionate negotiation. A proportionate response to Hamas, one might gather from the European scolds, would be as if the United States, after Pearl Harbor, would bomb just a few Japanese fishing boats and call it a day, believing the war would have ended with that. A proportionate response will begin to remind Jews that there is no peace process like victory, just as Israel's decade of disproportionate restraint and self-doubt has convinced young Palestinians that their victory is inevitable, like Aryan youth in 1933 singing "Tomorrow Belongs To Me." Let it be said to Israelis and Jews everywhere, in the words of Churchill: "You have enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something." But remember: A war (and Hamas has repeatedly said this is war) is never won if you are disproportionately kind to someone who wants to destroy you and, failing in that, demands with indignation that you not destroy him. When meeting that enemy, be proportionate. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090103/cf53680d/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sat Jan 3 20:31:50 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:31:50 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Duck and Cover In-Reply-To: <495DDE90.5070605@westnet.com.au> References: <495DDE90.5070605@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: From: Joe Indomenico Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 4:29 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Duck and Cover Shabbat Shalom JOE http://mysticalpaths.blogspot.com/2009/01/duck-and-cover.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090103/8ff4c29c/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sat Jan 3 20:37:47 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:37:47 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Duck and Cover In-Reply-To: <495DDE90.5070605@westnet.com.au> References: <495DDE90.5070605@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: This enemy is too vile for words. Thank you, Joe, for letting us see with our own eyes what it's like to be a child exposed daily to the threat of death. How unbelievable is it to see a playground that is a bomb shelter because the children are targets. May HaShem allow Israel to rid itself of these haters of mankind. ~Pat From: Joe Indomenico Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 4:29 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Duck and Cover Shabbat Shalom JOE http://mysticalpaths.blogspot.com/2009/01/duck-and-cover.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090103/ef9f0109/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Sat Jan 3 22:20:58 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 22:20:58 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] An important message from the people in Sderot, Israel In-Reply-To: <855590370901031739h56663a72n1f37312468314b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901031739h56663a72n1f37312468314b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <84A0394488A742DEAB33E9B206E93A15@bettylaptop> Hanoch, thanks for sending this and also the Prayer for Israel in Time of War. I am making it a part of my daily prayers. I shared it our rabbi this morning. It is hard to imagine all the innocent people living with this daily threat.how would you explain this to your children? The video helps to make it more of a reality, which is what we need. May HaShem avenge His people! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:39 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] An important message from the people in Sderot, Israel Please click on this link and then click on the play button 15 Seconds Hanoch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090103/c483fd40/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Sat Jan 3 23:38:09 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 23:38:09 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Duck and Cover In-Reply-To: References: <495DDE90.5070605@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <485A654DDCA74153BA36B4561AE6A76E@bettylaptop> Thanks, Joe, for sending this. It was another reality check. I echo Pat's words. As I watched the children on the playground get into the giant concrete caterpillar, I couldn't help but wonder what was going thru their minds. It really grabbed me. Shavua tov to you and all, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Robbins Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 8:38 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Duck and Cover This enemy is too vile for words. Thank you, Joe, for letting us see with our own eyes what it's like to be a child exposed daily to the threat of death. How unbelievable is it to see a playground that is a bomb shelter because the children are targets. May HaShem allow Israel to rid itself of these haters of mankind. ~Pat From: Joe Indomenico Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 4:29 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Mystical Paths: Duck and Cover Shabbat Shalom JOE http://mysticalpaths.blogspot.com/2009/01/duck-and-cover.html _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090103/76d89227/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Sun Jan 4 03:11:17 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 03:11:17 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Response: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson In-Reply-To: <009901c96da1$a54f7520$0400a8c0@marvin> References: <003701c96cee$b1e10460$0400a8c0@marvin> <009901c96da1$a54f7520$0400a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <85FEC7B1877245959211EC8AD54D47C4@bettylaptop> Thank you, Marvin, for your wise words. Jacobson's points and your comments ring so true. Maintaining one's faith and keeping a positive attitude in the most difficult of circumstances is definitely neither escapism nor being "out of touch" with reality. Yes, we can certainly learn from Joseph and our forefathers and the prophets of old, as well as the rabbis of the Middle Ages and from those brave holocaust survivors like Elie Weisel, Corrie Tin Boon and so many nameless others. And we mustn't forget those courageous innocents in Sderot that are living under constant threat today.may they continue to be strong and courageous against all odds. I love that expression, "When you are bound above, you don't fall below." These ancient and present day giants of faith were certainly "bound above." And also the phrase."This is the secret of transcendence: the ability to not be defined by the events around us." Yes, this transcendence, this ability not to be defined by the events around us, speaks so directly of Joseph.and what a lesson we can learn! May HaShem teach us to all to know when to act and when to wait and may He renew the strength of his people and all of us who stand beside them.may we together "mount up with wings as eagles, run and not be weary, walk and not faint.as in Isaiah 40:31. And when it is time to take action, as it appears to be today in Gaza, may we stand solidly behind Israel in prayer and offer whatever support we can. I am reminded of HaShem's encouraging words to Joshua after Moses death, words which he gave and then repeated three times over, in regards to taking hold of the Land that he had given His people as an inheritance. "Be strong and of a good courage (verse 6) "Only be strong and very courageous and observe to do all according to all the Tora." (verse 7) "Be strong and of good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy G-D is with thee wherever thou goest." (verse 9) "only be strong and of a good courage" (verse 18b) I never was a follower per say of Robert Schuler, but I love his often quoted phrase, "When things get tough, the tough get going!" But that of course needs to be understood and balanced with the words from HaShem spoken directly to Joshua as quoted above, along with the familiar words of the prophet Zechariah, "Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, says the L-RD of Hosts" (Zech. 4:6). We each have at least a smidgeon of the Creator within us.in every breath that we take, may we be reminded of the One who gives us breath, the One in whom we "live, move, and have our being!" It is so easy to allow ourselves to become bogged down in our personal hurts and problems. May we take deep breaths, remain focused and be strong and courageous, and not allow ourselves to be defined by the events around us, but rather rise above them in the strength that HaShem gives us day by day and may we daily remember to pray for Israel and for G-d's people and for the peace of Yerushalayim! Again, wonderful words of wisdom, Marvin. Thanks so much for sharing. This one is definitely a keeper. I am filing it in my "Inspirational Blurbs" folder, although it is much more than a blurb. Shavua tov.have a good week Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of mhyde Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 6:49 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] FW: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson Hi Betty, I hope all is well with you and Roger. A couple of things to point out in this post from Simon Jacobson. The first is the point he makes of the Rabbi's and Sages of the Jewish writings. He starts off with, "One of the most remarkable and overlooked stories of history was the transcendent ability of Torah scholars to produce an enormous volume of literature despite the harshest circumstances surrounding them." His comments that follow are something to really think about and apply to our own life's. How many times have our "troubles" affected us and many times when we find ourselves in pain. everyone around us knows about it. :) The second point that really connected with my spirit is Jacobson's comments about Joseph. Jacobson said. "Where did Joseph find such strength of character, such power, to not allow his circumstances to shape his life, and instead he shaped his circumstances? Was Joseph - and all the Middle Age sages - out of touch? Hardly. They were keenly aware and sensitive to the welfare of their own children. Yet, they still were able to rise above the fray. How? The answer lies in a powerful expression: "az men iz tzugebunden oiben, falt men nischt unten." When you are bound above, you don't fall below. the recognition that we are products of our own perceptions, and we write the script of our own destinies. Worship man-made devices below, and your life will be determined by your attitude. Connect to the sublime above, and you will be able to rise above the immediate events and move forward with fortitude and optimism. If you feel that mortals - or money - control the forces of your life, then you have delivered your own verdict: You will be subject to these forces, with all their unpredictability. If however, like Joseph, you recognize that the circumstances of your life are driven by a higher hand, and nothing, absolutely nothing that humans do can control your destiny, then you have freed yourself from the behavior of others, and can ride through the challenges and even discover how they have empowered you to "save lives.".." Again, much here to sit and meditate and pray about. If we can ever get to the place where we truly believe, know, understand like Joseph that YHVH is in control. Shalom' Marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Betty Givin Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 1:17 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] FW: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson Thank you so much for this, Marvin. We can never underestimate the power of the human heart and mind empowered by the Almighty! May we indeed be lifted up on the wings of eagles amidst all the gloom and doom surrounding us! Love & Blessings to all this coming year! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of mhyde Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:28 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] FW: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson Interesting prediction for the New Year. It is different then most you will see. I thought you might find it of interest. Have a happy as they say!. Marvin _____ From: wisdomreb at meaningfullife.com [mailto:wisdomreb at meaningfullife.com] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 10:05 AM To: mhyde7 at tds.net Subject: 2009: A Prediction, by Simon Jacobson This week at the MLC@ 6th, 325 E. 6th St., in Manhattan's East Village Fascinating new lecture series, w/ acclaimed international orator, Rabbi YY Jacobson The Comedy and Kabbalah of Relationships A candid discussion on the challenges of finding and maintaining healthy relationships 4-part Lecture Series, Tuesdays, January 6, 20, 27, February 17, 8:30PM, complete with curriculum and hand-outs. $15/lecture. $50/4-part series. ---> This week, Tuesday, January 6: Four Types of Intimacy: The Bible's Four Terms for Intimacy - Four Models for Relationships Register now. For more info and individual lecture topics, click here. Go to www.meaningfullife.com/classes for our complete programming schedule. ~~~~~ 2009 What Will the New Year Bring? A Prediction By Simon Jacobson 2008 is hardly the worst year in history, but it sure feels like it reading the news, blogs, commentaries and analysis of the past year. People are tentative and fearful. The mood is generally miserable. The outlook grim. 2008's economic meltdown - you can check out all the historic statistics on any popular website - is nowhere close to ending. A global recession, considered by many unprecedented, has suddenly erupted, with a domino effect continuing to ripple through the world. Mumbai has shaken us all up. The Middle East is at war again, or should I say, not at war again, but an ongoing battle that never seems to end. What is even more distressing is that Israel, perhaps for the first time in all of history, refuses to acknowledge that war has been declared against it, and to act accordingly and decisively, instead of just reacting to the latest missile attacks, second-guessing itself and moving forward with so much uncertainty. Read Israel Harel's article in Haaretz, Israel Blinked First. What will happen in the coming year? Will the new United States President change things, or will we have just more of the same? How many more foreclosures, bankruptcies, failed companies and financial institutions can we look forward to in 2009? What new revelations and corruptions will emerge? Will our economic systems fail completely or will they rebound? Are we headed toward better times or worse ones? The questions are many. Answers few, if any. Predicting what the new year will bring can seem quite presumptuous, if not outright folly. Yet, I will venture to do so anyway. No, I don't have a crystal ball. I have something far better. Read on. By looking back we can see ahead. The greatest guide for the future is the past. We cannot predict the coming year's events. But we can learn from those before us who have seen and experienced far worse than we will ever see, and rose above it. What is the secret of the resilience and power of heroic people who endured and thrived despite great suffering? One of the most remarkable and overlooked stories of history was the transcendent ability of Torah scholars to produce an enormous volume of literature despite the harshest circumstances surrounding them. Throughout the Early and Middle Ages, with Jewish persecution at its heights, sages like Rashi, Ramban, Rabbeinu Tam, Rashbam, the Tosafists and so many others - literally hundreds of scholars - wrote thousands of pages, containing the most brilliant and eloquent commentary you will ever read. And no where in their writings will you find complaints, bitterness, depression or demoralization. Pogroms, the crusades, persecutions, expulsions, inquisitions were ravaging Europe. But as much as you analyze their words, you will not uncover an iota of the tragic and difficult events taking place around them! Quite the contrary. Page after page is filled with inspiration, uplifting words, enormous strength and powerful insights. Usually, you would expect to find some mention or reference in a book to the personal challenges of the author. Often authors bare their souls and their life traumas in their writings. But even when they don't, with a bit of deconstruction and analysis, we can uncover the author's personal traumas. Indeed, entire studies today are dedicated to show us how to recognize in an author's words his abusive father and dysfunctional mother, every grievance against society can be seen in his pages. When it comes to our Torah sages, you find none of the sort. No fear, no tentativeness, nothing in their writings reflects the most trying challenges of their times! And what is even more amazing is that this is not an isolated case. Literally every scholar and sage, from the time of Moses, through all the ages, left us with a legacy of writings that reflect a higher world, not at all scarred or touched by the horrible events of the world below. Where did they have the composure, the presence of mind, to focus and produce such clarity? How were they able to not be overcome by doubts and fears for themselves and their families welfare? Take Joseph in this week's Torah portion: Despite his travails - sold by his own brothers into slavery, 22 years torn away from his beloved father, orphaned from his mother Rachel - you would think that he would have retained some bitterness. In fact, when Joseph finally reveals himself to his brothers, instead of fury and revenge, despite his great suffering, Joseph ends up calming his mortified brothers: "Do not feel guilty," he tells them, "for it is not you who sent me here, but G-d," in order to save lives! ( See this article). Simply remarkable. A powerful lesson for all history. Where did Joseph find such strength of character, such power, to not allow his circumstances to shape his life, and instead he shaped his circumstances? Was Joseph - and all the Middle Age sages - out of touch? Hardly. They were keenly aware and sensitive to the welfare of their own children. Yet, they still were able to rise above the fray. How? The answer lies in a powerful expression: "az men iz tzugebunden oiben, falt men nischt unten." When you are bound above, you don't fall below. This is the secret of transcendence: the ability to not be defined by the events around us; the recognition that we are products of our own perceptions, and we write the script of our own destinies. Worship man-made devices below, and your life will be determined by your attitude. Connect to the sublime above, and you will be able to rise above the immediate events and move forward with fortitude and optimism. If you feel that mortals - or money - control the forces of your life, then you have delivered your own verdict: You will be subject to these forces, with all their unpredictability. If however, like Joseph, you recognize that the circumstances of your life are driven by a higher hand, and nothing, absolutely nothing that humans do can control your destiny, then you have freed yourself from the behavior of others, and can ride through the challenges and even discover how they have empowered you to "save lives." The very question - "what will be?" "what will happen?" - is our undoing. If you feel that things "happen" to you, or that you "find yourself" in a predicament or situation, then you have relinquished control, and surrendered your destiny to the "things" that you empower. The secret to success in the new year is to not empower the weak forces that drive fear into our hearts. But to empower your own soul; to recognize that you have within yourself all the necessary strength to fulfill your life's mission. To realize that things don't happen to you; you make things happen. You don't "find yourself" in situations; you place yourself in them. We cannot control the events to come. But we can certainly control whether and how we will be influenced by them. Good ships are not those that can stop the storms or tame the waves; they are the ones that ride the swells, confident in their own ability to know when to thrust forward and when to slow down. Not to minimize the challenges of our times, but we can hardly call 2008 the worst year in history. By looking back to far worse years we can learn how to proceed. And how much of our troubles are actually psychological? Imagine, if a critical mass would have a change of attitude, and learn from our predecessors how to "bind" ourselves to that which is "above." But for now, before we address the critical mass, let us look at ourselves. No, we do not know what the new year will bring. But I will make confident prediction: Your attitude will define your year. No matter what happens this year, whatever up and downs will be coming our way, your destiny will be shaped by your attitudes; you will experience exactly what you allow yourself to experience: You will either be dragged down by the gravitational pull of the earth that you worship, or you will be lifted on the wings of your soul that you believe in. ~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090104/c1a0c6f6/attachment.html From rndavar at aol.com Sun Jan 4 08:51:22 2009 From: rndavar at aol.com (Ross Nichols) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:51:22 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Reminder-No Sunday Shul Message-ID: <2057132075-1231080584-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-261019357-@bxe114.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I am sitting in an airport in Memphis, traveling home from an eventful meeting in Charlotte with the executive members of United Israel World Union. I had the privelege of attending this historic meeting along with the two other ordained teachers of UIWU. I am flooded with thoughts and inspiration in these exciting times. I will write more later, but wanted mainly to remind all of you that there will be no class tonight. Shalom to all of you! Pray for Israel during these times and let us continue to pray for Rudy and Linda. Ross Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From webhulon at msn.com Sun Jan 4 19:37:07 2009 From: webhulon at msn.com (Ronnie Hulon) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 20:37:07 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager and Gershon Ferency in South Carolina In-Reply-To: <855590370812311854k138af4cpb5e670efa9b42f0d@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370812311854k138af4cpb5e670efa9b42f0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Shalom, Rueven Prager, a Levite from Jerusalem, and Gershon Ferency, a Priest from Yisrael, will be speaking on January 18th, at 3PM at Beth lechem in Lexington SC. Topics discussed will include the holy half-shekel, the Temple vessels, Temple incense, Biblical Techelet, ancient wine making and much more. Everyone is welcome and there is no admission, but please let us know if you plan to come so that we may properly prepare. For more info. go to www.1bread.org Web Hulon webhulon at msn.com _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090104/c1d344dd/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Mon Jan 5 11:41:16 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:41:16 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager and Gershon Ferency in South Carolina In-Reply-To: References: <855590370812311854k138af4cpb5e670efa9b42f0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Web, I met Reuven Prager years ago. In fact when he came to Texas in the early 90"s he stayed with some of my good friends, Howard and Betty Bennett. In fact, he made their wedding chuppah. There is a photo of it on my page in the Synagogue Without Walls website. It is in the background of the picture entitled "Josh at Purim, 1993"). I would love to get in touch with Reuven again as the beautiful silk tallit that he made for me has over the years has developed a tear, and I have to be very careful with it. I assume he is still making them, and if he is, I would very much like to order another just like my old one. I could send a photo. What do you think? BTW, I highly recommend his work. He does a beautiful job. Thanks, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Ronnie Hulon Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:37 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager and Gershon Ferency in South Carolina Shalom, Rueven Prager, a Levite from Jerusalem, and Gershon Ferency, a Priest from Yisrael, will be speaking on January 18th, at 3PM at Beth lechem in Lexington SC. Topics discussed will include the holy half-shekel, the Temple vessels, Temple incense, Biblical Techelet, ancient wine making and much more. Everyone is welcome and there is no admission, but please let us know if you plan to come so that we may properly prepare. For more info. go to www.1bread.org Web Hulon webhulon at msn.com _____ _____ It's the same HotmailR. If by "same" you mean up to 70% faster. Get your account now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090105/0f2d23c8/attachment.html From webhulon at msn.com Mon Jan 5 14:21:17 2009 From: webhulon at msn.com (Ronnie Hulon) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 15:21:17 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager and Gershon Ferency in South Carolina In-Reply-To: References: <855590370812311854k138af4cpb5e670efa9b42f0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Shalom Elisheva, I would be glad to print off a picture if you want to do an email attaccment and give it to Rueven when he arrives along with your contact info. Rueven first came to speak to our congregation when in '97 and we try to have him come visit as often as possible. It is always wonderful and he does still make the "Beged Ivri" Hebrew clothing. Blessings' Web From: bkgivin at charter.netTo: dialogue at rootsoffaith.orgSubject: RE: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager and Gershon Ferency in South CarolinaDate: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:41:16 -0600 Hi Web, I met Reuven Prager years ago. In fact when he came to Texas in the early 90?s he stayed with some of my good friends, Howard and Betty Bennett. In fact, he made their wedding chuppah. There is a photo of it on my page in the Synagogue Without Walls website. It is in the background of the picture entitled ?Josh at Purim, 1993?). I would love to get in touch with Reuven again as the beautiful silk tallit that he made for me has over the years has developed a tear, and I have to be very careful with it. I assume he is still making them, and if he is, I would very much like to order another just like my old one. I could send a photo. What do you think? BTW, I highly recommend his work. He does a beautiful job. Thanks, Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Ronnie HulonSent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:37 PMTo: dialogue at rootsoffaith.orgSubject: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager and Gershon Ferency in South Carolina Shalom,Rueven Prager, a Levite from Jerusalem, and Gershon Ferency, a Priest from Yisrael, will be speaking on January 18th, at 3PM at Beth lechem in Lexington SC. Topics discussed will include the holy half-shekel, the Temple vessels, Temple incense, Biblical Techelet, ancient wine making and much more. Everyone is welcome and there is no admission, but please let us know if you plan to come so that we may properly prepare.For more info. go to www.1bread.orgWeb Hulonwebhulon at msn.com It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. Get your account now. _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090105/a13ac0f2/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Mon Jan 5 15:02:17 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 15:02:17 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager and Gershon Ferency in South Carolina In-Reply-To: References: <855590370812311854k138af4cpb5e670efa9b42f0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <61A5A10EDBDD47D1A6760AEC3CDBB159@bettylaptop> Thanks, Web. I have attached a photo. Reuven can reach me thru my email address, bkgivin at charter.net. Photo is attached; hopefully he can make it out. It is all white silk, except for the stripes on each end which are varied shades of blue with gold in between the stripes. The Hebrew inscription, "Kod v'heder l'vashta," along the top is royal blue and trimmed in gold. I love this tallit and to have another like it would be a tremendous blessing to me. Toda rabba, Web. Shalom, Elisheva _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Ronnie Hulon Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 2:21 PM To: roots of faith Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager and Gershon Ferency in South Carolina Shalom Elisheva, I would be glad to print off a picture if you want to do an email attaccment and give it to Rueven when he arrives along with your contact info. Rueven first came to speak to our congregation when in '97 and we try to have him come visit as often as possible. It is always wonderful and he does still make the "Beged Ivri" Hebrew clothing. Blessings' Web _____ From: bkgivin at charter.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager and Gershon Ferency in South Carolina Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:41:16 -0600 Hi Web, I met Reuven Prager years ago. In fact when he came to Texas in the early 90"s he stayed with some of my good friends, Howard and Betty Bennett. In fact, he made their wedding chuppah. There is a photo of it on my page in the Synagogue Without Walls website. It is in the background of the picture entitled "Josh at Purim, 1993"). I would love to get in touch with Reuven again as the beautiful silk tallit that he made for me has over the years has developed a tear, and I have to be very careful with it. I assume he is still making them, and if he is, I would very much like to order another just like my old one. I could send a photo. What do you think? BTW, I highly recommend his work. He does a beautiful job. Thanks, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Ronnie Hulon Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:37 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager and Gershon Ferency in South Carolina Shalom, Rueven Prager, a Levite from Jerusalem, and Gershon Ferency, a Priest from Yisrael, will be speaking on January 18th, at 3PM at Beth lechem in Lexington SC. Topics discussed will include the holy half-shekel, the Temple vessels, Temple incense, Biblical Techelet, ancient wine making and much more. Everyone is welcome and there is no admission, but please let us know if you plan to come so that we may properly prepare. For more info. go to www.1bread.org Web Hulon webhulon at msn.com _____ _____ It's the same HotmailR. If by "same" you mean up to 70% faster. Get your account now. _____ It's the same HotmailR. If by "same" you mean up to 70% faster. Get your account now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090105/f015673e/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tallit,Betty Givin,Elisheva.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 24814 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090105/f015673e/attachment.jpe From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 21:45:14 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:45:14 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] At Ben Gurion Airport... Message-ID: <855590370901051945i6a6d5e01kefca67f4ef89f37b@mail.gmail.com> This is a picture of my daughter Kyra, waiting for her big sister Ayala to get off the plane. For those who don't speak Hebrew (yet!), the sign quotes: "..and the children will come back to their borders.." * Hanoch* ** [image: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30248389&id=1382850012] ** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090105/415594bb/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 21:45:15 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:45:15 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] At Ben Gurion Airport... Message-ID: <855590370901051945k3b6c7023r38f2dca44060d8cd@mail.gmail.com> This is a picture of my daughter Kyra, waiting for her big sister Ayala to get off the plane. For those who don't speak Hebrew (yet!), the sign quotes: "..and the children will come back to their borders.." * Hanoch* ** [image: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30248389&id=1382850012] ** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090105/4b35e3d2/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 21:56:55 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:56:55 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] "The Gaza War: A Spiritual/Contingency Matrix" Message-ID: <855590370901051956r2276f8ffl114223f24f3587b8@mail.gmail.com> >From Rav Lazer Brody....a tremendous inspiration to me *Hanoch* Tuesday, 06 January 2009 The Gaza War: A Spiritual/Contingency Matrix *[image: IDF 5.1.09 Reuters]Israeli mounted infantry troops in Gaza, sundown Monday, 5 Jan., 2009 * *Update: Israeli troops are now fighting fierce urban battles. Latest reports tell that dozens of Hamas militants have been captured .* Operation "Cast Lead" - what we here at Emuna News call simply "The Gaza War", is a major pivot point in the Jewish People's march (whether they're aware of it or not) toward *Geula*, or the full redemption of our people. Outside this context, it's impossible to understand the possible outcome scenarios and their implications. Although we laud the IDF and its modest Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi for their preparation and dedication which are making Operation "Cast Lead" a success, the IDF's gains on the battlefield will not determine Israel's fate. [image: AP Ashdod 1.05.09 Avi Rocca]This is a war of miracles - Hashem has done many of them in Ashdod alone. A kindergarten in one of Ashdod's religious neighborhoods (*image, left*) was totally destroyed by a Grad missile, but fortunately, not a single person was injured. Even greater miracles - which we can't reveal on the web because of security considerations - are further evidence of Hashem's loving wake-up call to His people. Despite the IDF's gains, the Hamas continues to pour rocket and missile fire on Israel's south. Logical? Definitely not, for nothing is logical in this war since everything that's happening is the result of Hashem's personal intervention. Whether or not Hamas is destroyed means nothing to Israel's long-term or even medium-term future. The entire aftermath of the war solely depends on whether or not Israel as a nation makes teshuva and returns to Hashem, as we see in the following spiritual/contingency matrix: *Hamas / Israel* *Israel makes Teshuva* *Israel doesn't make Teshuva* *Hamas survives* A civil war breaks out between Hamas and Fatah in the West Bank. America loses all leverage against Israel. The Fatah is destroyed. Israel obviously has no partner for so-called peace. Judea, Samaria, and the Golan remain intact. Moshiach comes and gains control of the entire Kingdom of David without firing a shot. Hamas attains a ceasefire via international pressure on Israel. Having withstood Operation "Cast Lead", Hamas becomes the hero of Islam and emerges in a few short months ? with massive Iranian assistance ? to be stronger than before. Missile fire is resumed; by this time, Israel also faces a nuclear threat from Iran and the Obama government ties Israel's hands. *Hamas is destroyed* The residents of the Gaza strip storm into Egypt and resettle on the Egyptian side of the border. Gush Katif is rebuilt and all of Gaza becomes Jewish. The corrupt PA erodes from within in Judea and Samaria. Bankrupt USA has no leverage against Israel. Iran and Syria suffer extreme natural disaster. Moshiach comes and gains control of the entire Kingdom of David without firing a shot. This is the worst-case scenario. All of Israel's military gains go to the "moderate" (sic) PLO, which fills the void left by Hamas. USA coerces Israel to return to 1967 borders. A Palestinian state is formed in Gaza and the West Bank, the Golan gets turned over to Syria. Within 18 months, Israel will have to face existential threats on all fronts ? Gaza, West Bank, Golan, and possibly Egypt. Iran threatens with nuclear weapons; missile threats from all borders. Don't let the term *Teshuva* scare you. All Hashem expects as that all become a little bit better than we are today. Strengthening our souls is of paramount importance so that we'll be able to bask in the dazzling bright light of our rebuilt Temple, soon and in our days, amen. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090105/2d4c9655/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Fri Jan 2 21:08:36 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 21:08:36 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] FW: In memory of Joshua Lee Thomas Message-ID: <054C545DA25E4EBD9136ABA1C08AABAA@bettylaptop> _____ Dear friends, Some of you have met my daughter Kim, seen her radiant smile, and the beautiful spirit that shines forth from her. And some, but probably most of you are not aware that she lost her precious little boy, Joshua Lee Thomas (May his memory be for a blessing!) at the tender age of three and one-half, as a result of a rare strep infection which led to sepsis and which may or may not have been compounded by his Cystic Fibrosis. He died on Dec. 21st, 1993 on the Gregorian calendar, which was actually between 6 Tevet and 7 Tevet on the Hebrew calendar. Roger lit a special candle for him on the Gregorian day of Dec. 21st, the first day of Winter, and I lit another tonight along with my Shabbat candles to mark his Hebrew yartzeit. I wanted to put up a post on Synagogue Without Walls and attach a few photos, but haven't yet been able to do the photos, so I thought I would just write a post to the general list and maybe try again later. I just couldn't let the day go by without paying tribute to his memory. I have heard it said that losing a child is the hardest thing in the world one can go through. I can only imagine, since losing a grandchild, brings forth emotions so deep that they cannot be expressed. There are countless stories I could relate about our Josh, but I will share one, and when you read it, you will know why we think that he was such a very special little boy, a true gift from HaShem! Joshua loved the lights of Shabbat, Havdalah, and Hanukkah.all the festivals! On Havdalah, he would watch us reach towards the light of the candle, and he would reach toward the flame with his little hands.and as he did, his eyes would sparkle and his whole face would light up. From the very first time he was introduced to the custom of the children opening the door for Elijah & going outside to try to find him and invite him in, he fell in love with him. He called him "Eh ee ah hu." After that he would want to look for Elijah each week as we lit the Shabbat candles and the Havdalah candle after Shabbat.and then he would want to go out every night and look for him. And each time it was with such great expectation! In fact the last time we saw him alive and well, Roger took him outside after it got dark and they looked at all the stars. Since he had Cystic Fibrosis which effects breathing in addition to the digestive process, Kim would have to give him regular breathing treatments several times a day.and since he was a kid with so much spunk and energy, it was not always easy for her to accomplish this. But as he got more and more used to the routine, they would have little talks during the treatment, which made it easier on both of them. One day when she told him that it was time for his breathing treatment, he told her, "No, Mommy, no "beeding teetment." As she tried to persuade him, he kept repeating the same thing and then said, "Mommy, I not need beeding teetment. I go to heaven and see Eh ee ah hu. I go to see G-d." Needless to say, Kim was a bit taken back as she tried to explain that of course he would go to heaven and see G-d one day, but that now, he needed his breathing treatment, but he remained adamant. It was not long after that that we received a phone call from Kim.Joshua was in the emergency room with a high fever and they didn't know what was wrong.then Joshua was in a coma. Hanukkah was coming and we began to pray diligently for a miracle for our Joshua. We couldn't light candles at the hospital and one of his nurses must have heard us talking.the next thing we knew, she had a page from a coloring book taped to the wall, and each day, she colored another candle and each day, we hoped and prayed with all our hearts that HaShem would heal him. Joshua stayed in the coma for 3 weeks. We talked to him as though he could hear him and played his special "Barney" tape that he loved. We kept thinking and praying that if he could just make it thru Hanukkah, that he would come thru this.but he didn't.instead of getting better, he worsened. We called a rabbi who came to the hospital, said prayers over Joshua and prayed with us. Little Joshua died a couple of days after Hanukkah was over. But his memory remains alive and fresh in our hearts and minds. He would have been 18 years old had he lived, but he is with HaShem and maybe has even met his "Eh ee ah hu!" Before he died, HaShem gave me a beautiful vision of him running thru a path of light.he was running with abandon.he was barefooted and his hair was flying, his eyes sparkling and his smile radiant as always.I thought this was to tell me that he would be healed and that he would pull thru.and when he didn't, we were devastated. I called my dear friend, Betty Bennett, and she told me she had also had a vision.she described the same one that HaShem had given me.and she said that she now realized that HaShem had given us this picture to let us know that Joshua would indeed be healed and would continue to live on, that he would be happy and carefree.not in this life, but in another. Joshua was a blessing to all who touched his little life and we will never, ever forget him! Yes, his memory is a blessing and may it ever be! I have attached a few photos. The last one was the end of the summer before he died a few months later. He is the little one on the end.see the precious little face and note the loving protective arm/hand of brother Ryan beside him.he loved him so much. Please keep Kim and family in your prayers, and thanks for letting me share about Joshua. Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090102/c2de0074/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Granny, Josh & Larry hugs.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 768707 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090102/c2de0074/attachment.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Kim & Josh with big glasses.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 755421 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090102/c2de0074/attachment-0001.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Josh, Purim, 1993.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1533932 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090102/c2de0074/attachment-0002.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Laura, cousin, Ryan, Josh - Summer '93.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1209199 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090102/c2de0074/attachment-0003.jpg From jid at westnet.com.au Sun Jan 4 01:20:13 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:20:13 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] PELE YOSEF BEN NOAM. Message-ID: <4960632D.7090402@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090104/23b268e7/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DSC00138.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 197436 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090104/23b268e7/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DSC00147.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 239295 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090104/23b268e7/attachment-0001.jpe From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jan 6 04:16:29 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:16:29 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF Message-ID: <49632F7D.2090006@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/1b5c0d9e/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: da1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 15630 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/1b5c0d9e/attachment.jpg From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 04:37:32 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 02:37:32 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] 'We Lost our homes for nothing.." Message-ID: <855590370901060237g2bd62a80i794d1669d132ae04@mail.gmail.com> 'We lost our homes for nothing,' says reservist from former Gaza settlement By Nir Hasson, Haaretz.com January 1, 2009 Three years after being evacuated from settlements in the Gaza Strip, some of the evacuees are now returning - in uniform. Aharon Cruz, a paratroops officer, lived in Netzarim for two years before the disengagement. On Sunday, he and his unit, to which he had been recalled a mere day after his wedding last Thursday, were back at the settlement's ruins in central Gaza. "On one hand, there's a feeling of 'what did we leave for?'" said his father, Rabbi Ze'ev Cruz. "On the other hand, there's joy that he is returning to a place he knows." The ground operation has aroused strong feelings among the evacuees. Some see it as a first step toward returning to their former homes. But most simply want to shout "we told you so!" And the feelings are intensified among those who have sons serving in Gaza. "It's a very difficult feeling," said Ami Shaked, former chief security officer of the Gush Katif settlement bloc, whose son is a paratrooper. "This is the first war in which my son is defending me instead of me, him." But beyond that, "everything we said then has come true. What is happening today reopens the wounds. The thought arises that perhaps we shouldn't have given in; perhaps we should have been more insistent, ratcheted up the struggle another notch. But that's history." Yossi Neuman, a reserve officer in Southern Command who once lived in Neve Dekalim, was called up over a week ago. His son Itai, a tank commander, called him yesterday from the ruins of Netzarim. "It's a destructive feeling," Neuman said. "I'm here on an emergency call-up and my son is fighting for what we once had. We said missiles would haunt Ashkelon and they said we were delusional. We lost our homes and our lives for nothing, for nothing at all in exchange. And in the end, we're returning to fight there." For many evacuees, the feelings were heightened by the news that the son of Zvika Bar-Hai - a West Bank settler who was one of the leaders of the fight against disengagement - was seriously wounded on the first day of the ground operation. But the army's return to Netzarim was particularly emotional for former residents of that settlement. "I got text messages that said 'stop everything, we'll soon be back,'" said one, Itzik Vazana. "We're hoping for the day when we return. I think we've come a long way from the expulsion until today. We've made a big circle, and in the end, we're returning to Netzarim. Tomorrow morning we won't return to the settlement, but it's a process that will ripen slowly." "It's a stab in the heart," added another, Eliyahu Ozen. "Today it is clear that when I lived in Netzarim, I was the country's flak jacket. Today, I live with the feeling that I did my job. Too bad they didn't want it any more." http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052596.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/bcdf11b8/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 04:40:41 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 02:40:41 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] PELE YOSEF BEN NOAM. In-Reply-To: <4960632D.7090402@westnet.com.au> References: <4960632D.7090402@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <855590370901060240n45f2ce7ehf86eebb9e404560d@mail.gmail.com> MAZAL TOV!!! 2009/1/3 Joe Indomenico > *Shavua Tov Chaverim, > > I would like to introduce you to my G-dson Pele Yosef ben Noam. Baruch > HaShem. > He was born last Shabbat 27th December and today we celebrated his Brit > Milah. > > He is the Great Grandnephew of Rabbi Meir Kahane. > His grandparents Yacov and Zavah flew especially over from Yisrael. > > > May HaShem bless, protect and keep this wonder (Pele) full boy who has > joined in Holy Covenant with HaShem. > * > *Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > > **?* ????-????? ??????-?????, ???? ??????-?????, ???????? ???????????, > ???-????????; ?????????? ?????? ?????? ??????, ??? ????????, ?????-???, > ????-???????. *5* For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and > the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called *Pele*-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom; > Isaiah 9 v 5 > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/f2339106/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 04:52:15 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 02:52:15 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] today.. Message-ID: <855590370901060252r27ff0fb3ja6d70ba3dba943e1@mail.gmail.com> [image: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/] Daily Israel Report Subscribe (free) Home News News Briefs Opinion Judaism Features Blogs Admin Radio | Live [image: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/static/a7radio.asx] TV Jukebox Israel Pics Services RSS Advertise The Fast of the Tenth Tevet 10, 5769, 06 January 09 12:04 by by Daniel Pinner (IsraelNN.com) "And it happened in the ninth year of [Zedekiah's] reign, in the tenth month [i.e., Tevet], on the tenth of the month, that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came - he and all his army - against Jerusalem, besieged it and built a siege tower around it." (II Kings 25:1, Jeremiah 52:4) Zedekiah was the very last king of Judah, who had ascended the throne in a turbulent period of Jewish history. One hundred and twenty-two years earlier, Shalmaneser, king of Assyria, had conquered the northern kingdom of Israel; he took King Hoshea captive and sent the ten tribes into exile, scattered throughout the Assyrian Empire, where they were lost to the Jewish national body. The southern kingdom of Judea would survive for another 133 years, under constant threat of invasion and occasional incursions from Egypt and Babylon, before finally being invaded and conquered by Nebuchadnezzar. Zedekiah's father, Josiah, had reigned for thirty-one years. He had ascended the throne when he was just eight years old, and tried desperately to repair the spiritual ravages that his predecessors had caused to the nation: he renovated the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, which had not been maintained properly since King Jehoash, eight kings and over 200 years previously; he restored the Torah to Judah; he destroyed the idols, including the Asherah tree from the Holy Temple, and burned them all; he dismissed the priests of idolatry and destroyed the rooms that they had maintained within the Holy Temple; he destroyed all the idolatrous altars throughout the Land; and he restored the Pesach sacrifice, which had been neglected for centuries. His reign came to an abrupt end when Pharaoh Neco wanted to traverse through Judea on his way to fight Assyria. King Josiah would not tolerate a foreign army on Judean soil, so he confronted the pharaoh in Megiddo. In the ensuing battle, Pharaoh Neco killed King Josiah, whereupon the masses anointed Josiah's son Jehoahaz as king. Jehoahaz, however, was an evil king; and after reigning for just three months, the pharaoh captured him, exiled him, reduced Judea to a vassal state, and put Jehoaz's brother Eliakim on the throne, changing his name to Jehoiakim. Jehoiakim, also an evil king, reigned for eleven years, first as a vassal of Egypt, then of Babylon. Eventually, a Babylonian-Moabite-Ammonite alliance attacked Judea, inflicting terrible damage. Jehoiakim died, and his eighteen-year-old son Jehoiachin became king. Jehoiachin was just as evil as his father and, after he reigned for just three months, Babylon besieged Jerusalem, pillaged the treasures of the Holy Temple, exiled tens of thousands of Jews, and took King Jehoiachin into captivity in Babylon. The king of Babylon then crowned Jehoiachin's uncle, Mattaniah, as vassal-king of Judea, changing his name to Zedekiah. And then, after nine years of autonomy in the Babylonian Empire, on the tenth of Tevet, the Babylonian army began its siege on Jerusalem, the last stage before the final obliteration of Jewish independence. Just seven months later, on the 7th of Av, Nebuzaradan, the chief executioner of Babylon, would arrive in Jerusalem to burn the Holy Temple two days later - on the 9th of Av. The 9th of Av had been ordained as a day of destruction and mourning ever since the spies whom Moshe had sent to spy out the Land of Israel had returned, given their evil report, and the nation spurned the Land of Israel and cried in their lack of faith. The Talmud (*Ta'anit* 29a) calculates the Torah's chronology: on the 20th of Iyar we left Mount Sinai (Numbers 10:11); this was followed by a three-day journey (v.33) concluding on the 23rd of Iyar; a 30-day sojourn in Kibroth-Hata'avah (*ibid.* 11:20, 34) concluding on the 22nd of Sivan; and finally seven days in Hazeroth (11:35, 12:15-16) before reaching the Paran Desert (*ibid.* 12:16) on the 29th of Sivan. Hence, Moshe sent out the twelve spies on the 29th of Sivan (compare *Targum Yonatan* to Numbers 13:20). They returned forty days later on the 8th of Av and gave their evil report of the Land; and when night fell and the nation cried, it was the evening of the 9th of Av. Instead of the 9th of Av being the day that we entered the Land of Israel and brought the redemption, it became a day of tragedy. But what event foreshadowed the siege of Jerusalem beginning on the 10th of Tevet? It seems to me that the Torah gives us a hint of what the background was. 1,291 years before the First Temple was destroyed, three angels appeared to Abraham and Sarah, heralding the birth of their son Isaac the following year (Genesis 18:1-14). The Talmud and the *midrashim* are consistent about the chronology: the angel promised Sarah that she would bear her son Isaac exactly one year hence (18:10); the 400 years of Abraham's seed living as "strangers in a land not their own" (15:13) began with the birth of Isaac and finished with the Exodus from Egypt. Since the Exodus occurred on the 15th of Nisan, Isaac was born 400 years to the day earlier; i.e., also on the 15th of Nisan. And since the angelic prophecy to Sarah was one year to the day before Isaac was born, this episode also happened on the 15th of Nisan. This was also the day before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, sparing only Lot and his two daughters, who fled into the hills (Genesis 19:1-25). The night following the destruction, Lot's daughters, fearing that they were the only three people remaining in the world, plied their father with drink and impregnated themselves by him. They gave birth to sons - the elder bore Moab and the younger bore the ancestor of Ammon (19:30-38). Nine months after the 16th of Nisan brings us to the 10th of Tevet. Hence, Moab and Ammon, the two nations who, in alliance with Babylon, would attack Judea and thus initiate the process that would culminate in Judea being captured and the Holy Temple destroyed, were born on the 10th of Tevet - the day that Babylon began the siege on Jerusalem. Thus, Jewish independence would be extinguished in the Land of Israel and, for the next 70 years, the Land was to lie desolate under Babylonian occupation. At the end of that time, the Persian King Cyrus (Koresh) defeated Babylon, inherited the Babylonian Empire - including Israel - and proclaimed the right of any Jew who wanted to return to Israel and to rebuild the Holy Temple. In the days of the Second Temple, we did not fast on the fast days of mourning (the 17th of Tammuz, the 9th of Av, *Tzom Gedaliyah* on the 3rd of Tishrei, and the 10th of Tevet): one does not mourn over the destruction on the Temple while the Temple is standing. The Rambam, however, states that the Jews did fast on the 9th of Av in the Second Temple period (commentary to the *Mishnah*, *Rosh HaShanah* 1:3; "Laws of Fasts" 5:5). It seems puzzling that we should fast in mourning for the Temple when the Temple is standing. The *Maggid Mishneh* (commentary on the *Mishneh Torah*by Rabbi Vidal of Tolosa, 14th-century Spain) explains: "According to our rabbi [the Rambam], the custom [whether or not to fast] depends upon the circumstances, as the Talmud [*Rosh HaShanah* 18b] makes clear. In a time of peace - which means when the Holy Temple is built - the fast days are days of rejoicing and gladness; in times of persecution, they are fast days; and in times when there is neither peace nor persecution, every Jew who desires to fast can fast. However, fasting is not obligatory, with the exception of the fast of the 9th of Av, because there were so many disasters on this day. But now, everyone fasts on all these days and all are obligatory upon every Jew until the Holy Temple will be rebuilt." (*Maggid Mishneh* on "Laws of Fasts" 5:5) Evidently, the Second Temple, being only temporary, could annul three of the four fasts of mourning. But the 9th of Av is such a disastrous day that a temporary Temple cannot override it. But the third and final Holy Temple will convert even the 9th of Av into the day of joy and festivity that it was originally intended to be, a day of redemption: "Thus said *HaShem*, Lord of Legions: The fast of the fourth [month, i.e., Tammuz] and the fast of the fifth [month, i.e., Av] and the fast of the seventh [month, i.e., Tishrei], and the fast of the tenth [month, i.e., Tevet] will turn into rejoicing and gladness and festivities for the House of Judah. So love truth and peace." (Zechariah 8:19) www.IsraelNationalNews.com (c) Copyright IsraelNationalNews.com Subscribe to the free Daily Israel Report - sub.israelnn.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/36812240/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 05:19:36 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 03:19:36 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] photos don't lie.. Message-ID: <855590370901060319l363dd77xa9a5a5f3f342f9e7@mail.gmail.com> For those of you whom I've convinced that my daughters look exactly like me (NOT)....the evidence is below. Kyra is the 2nd from the left, Ayala is the 2nd from the right... *Hanoch* ** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/c81cf976/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jan 6 08:59:56 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 09:59:56 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] photos don't lie.. In-Reply-To: <855590370901060319l363dd77xa9a5a5f3f342f9e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901060319l363dd77xa9a5a5f3f342f9e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: They are so beautiful, Hanoch. I'm so happy to have these photos of Kyra and Ayala. I love that you named Ayala, "Deer." She even has the look of a graceful deer. What does Kyra mean? She is a gorgeous young woman. This photo of Ayala's "Welcome Home" is just terrific!!!! Love, Pat From: Hanoch Young Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 6:19 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] photos don't lie.. For those of you whom I've convinced that my daughters look exactly like me (NOT)....the evidence is below. Kyra is the 2nd from the left, Ayala is the 2nd from the right... Hanoch -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/7c16baed/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jan 6 09:10:11 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:10:11 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF In-Reply-To: <49632F7D.2090006@westnet.com.au> References: <49632F7D.2090006@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Amen, Joe. I'm so sorry to hear of Dvir's death, and of the deaths of those precious three lost in friendly fire. Let us redouble our prayers over these gallant young men, that HaShem will hide them under His wings (Psalm 91). And may Dvir's poor mother be comforted among the mourner's of Zion. Pat From: Joe Indomenico Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 5:16 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF Shalom Chaverim, we live in days of a cocktail mixture of emotions. As we here of the first casualties and deaths resulting from the war in Gaza, let us lift our voices in prayer in quiet confidence that HaShem is engineering this conflict for the greater good and the ultimate glorification of His Holy Name. Monday, January 5 Obituary: St.-Sgt. Dvir Emanueliof HY"D Some 30 months after his father was niftar from illness and two weeks after the passing of his grandfather, Dvir Emanueliof fell in battle in Hamas-controlled Gaza. Dalia, his mother, went shopping and was on her way home, loaded down with bags when she saw the IDF officers waiting for her outside the home. She immediately understood. Dvir, 22, was killed by mortar shell fragments in an attack against his unit as they were operating in the Jabalya area of Gaza on Sunday. Friends and family quickly gathered in their home and Dvir's four sisters worked to comfort their mom, who was visibly torn over the news, the death of her only son, and another tragedy in the family. After their father died, the children launched a website diary to remain in touch with him. Shortly after Shabbos one of Dvir's sisters, Aviha, the youngest, wrote, "Abba, Dvir has gone into Gaza. Ima is really worried. Please help her and all of us to remain strong. Please bring all the soldiers home safely. Love Aviha." Dvir was laid to rest on Monday night in Jerusalem's Har Herzl Military Cemetery. News has just come in that a further three soldiers have been killed by friendly fire. Just a side note for those that may have heard how the IDF was able to extinguish the life of a senior Chamas leader and mentor Nizar Rayyan, together with his four wifes and ten children. Nizar was the mastermind that sent his son on a homicide/suicide terror mission into Elei Sinai during Succot 2001 killing the beautiful Liron and her future husband Asaf , seriously wounding Dror his wife Sarita and terrorizing Dror's children and the rest of the community. Middah Keneged Middah. YESH DIN VE YESH DAYAN !!!!!!! In conclusion let us all remember our brothers and sisters in arms. http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Wahd2piIr4Q&eurl=http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/3 Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/07703774/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 15630 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/07703774/attachment.jpe From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 09:25:01 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:25:01 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] photos don't lie.. In-Reply-To: References: <855590370901060319l363dd77xa9a5a5f3f342f9e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <855590370901060725q2e016232i9c9064bc66eaab52@mail.gmail.com> Hey Pat - Thank you so much for the sweet comments - they are both an incredible Bracha from HaShem (far more then I deserve). The girls names are a bit of a play on each other: 'Kyra" is from 'Yakira" which means 'dear' (as in 'beloved'). So one is a DEER and one is a DEAR. I know, I know, it sounds silly now, but it seemed to be very clever back then; 20 years ago...LOL :-) * Hanoch* On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Pat Robbins wrote: > They are so beautiful, Hanoch. I'm so happy to have these photos of Kyra > and Ayala. I love that you named Ayala, "Deer." She even has the look of a > graceful deer. What does Kyra mean? She is a gorgeous young woman. This > photo of Ayala's "Welcome Home" is just terrific!!!! > > Love, > > Pat > > *From:* Hanoch Young > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 6:19 AM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Dialogue] photos don't lie.. > > For those of you whom I've convinced that my daughters look exactly like me > (NOT)....the evidence is below. Kyra is the 2nd from the left, Ayala is the > 2nd from the right... > *Hanoch* > ** > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/eb1b6e23/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jan 6 09:37:13 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:37:13 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] photos don't lie.. In-Reply-To: <855590370901060319l363dd77xa9a5a5f3f342f9e7@mail.gmail.com> <855590370901060725q2e016232i9c9064bc66eaab52@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901060319l363dd77xa9a5a5f3f342f9e7@mail.gmail.com> <855590370901060725q2e016232i9c9064bc66eaab52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: What do you mean, "clever 20 years ago"????? I find it not only clever, but absolutely charming NOW!!!! What a double Bracha from HaShem!!!!!! ~Pat From: Hanoch Young Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:25 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] photos don't lie.. Hey Pat - Thank you so much for the sweet comments - they are both an incredible Bracha from HaShem (far more then I deserve). The girls names are a bit of a play on each other: 'Kyra" is from 'Yakira" which means 'dear' (as in 'beloved'). So one is a DEER and one is a DEAR. I know, I know, it sounds silly now, but it seemed to be very clever back then; 20 years ago...LOL :-) Hanoch On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Pat Robbins wrote: They are so beautiful, Hanoch. I'm so happy to have these photos of Kyra and Ayala. I love that you named Ayala, "Deer." She even has the look of a graceful deer. What does Kyra mean? She is a gorgeous young woman. This photo of Ayala's "Welcome Home" is just terrific!!!! Love, Pat From: Hanoch Young Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 6:19 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] photos don't lie.. For those of you whom I've convinced that my daughters look exactly like me (NOT)....the evidence is below. Kyra is the 2nd from the left, Ayala is the 2nd from the right... Hanoch ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/a93acd03/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 6 12:10:35 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:10:35 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] PELE YOSEF BEN NOAM. In-Reply-To: <4960632D.7090402@westnet.com.au> References: <4960632D.7090402@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <631BD65995BD431D9FC37AF7785B477F@bettylaptop> Mazel tov, Joe! What a blessing and honor for you. Being related to Rabbi Meir Kahane (May His memory be for a blessing!) is enough to make him a special ?wonder.? Yes, may HaShem bless and protect this beautiful child who has joined in Holy Covenant with HaShem. The look on your face in the photo is priceless! You are not a bit proud and happy are you?!!!!! Shalom v?Ahavah Elisheva _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Joe Indomenico Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 1:20 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] PELE YOSEF BEN NOAM. Shavua Tov Chaverim, I would like to introduce you to my G-dson Pele Yosef ben Noam. Baruch HaShem. He was born last Shabbat 27th December and today we celebrated his Brit Milah. He is the Great Grandnephew of Rabbi Meir Kahane. His grandparents Yacov and Zavah flew especially over from Yisrael. May HaShem bless, protect and keep this wonder (Pele) full boy who has joined in Holy Covenant with HaShem. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. ? ????-????? ??????-?????, ???? ??????-?????, ???????? ???????????, ???-????????; ?????????? ?????? ?????? ??????, ??? ????????, ?????-???, ????-???????. 5 For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom; Isaiah 9 v 5 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/c62eea14/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 6 12:19:06 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:19:06 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] photos don't lie.. In-Reply-To: References: <855590370901060319l363dd77xa9a5a5f3f342f9e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hanoch, I will have to agree. Your daughters are most lovely, both of them! However, I must say that the resemblance between Kyra and you is remarkable.don't you sometimes refer to her as your "mini me?" Before I saw these photos, I thought maybe it had to do with personality, but the likeness is definitely there as well! I know you are a very proud and happy abba! We are waiting for another photo taken from Israel with you in the middle of your two beautiful daughters! B'Ahava, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Robbins Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:00 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] photos don't lie.. They are so beautiful, Hanoch. I'm so happy to have these photos of Kyra and Ayala. I love that you named Ayala, "Deer." She even has the look of a graceful deer. What does Kyra mean? She is a gorgeous young woman. This photo of Ayala's "Welcome Home" is just terrific!!!! Love, Pat From: Hanoch Young Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 6:19 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] photos don't lie.. For those of you whom I've convinced that my daughters look exactly like me (NOT)....the evidence is below. Kyra is the 2nd from the left, Ayala is the 2nd from the right... Hanoch _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/f0213a8f/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 6 12:33:58 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:33:58 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] IDF Kills Top Hamas Program Head Message-ID: <22C05985FA6B468CBC1057268FFA9E9C@bettylaptop> The sad news is that 4 Israeli soldiers were killed in Gaza. (May their memories be for a blessing!). They Gave their hearts and their lives for the Land they believed in. Perhaps by their sacrifice, many more lives will be spared. See below. If any of you are interested in getting this daily report, you can click below. Elisheva/Betty Advertise | Subscribe to this report Home Video MP3 Radio News News Briefs Israel Pics Opinion Judaism To Stay Subscribed You Must Click Here > In light of recent Israeli anti-spam legislation, please reaffirm your explicit consent to receive the Daily News Report which contains advertisements as well as periodic promotional emails offering products and services. Please show your support for our work by clicking on the above headline. Declaration: By clicking the above headline, I hereby declare that I agree to receive the Daily Email News Report which contains advertisements, as well as occasional promotional emails featuring products and services. Tuesday, Jan 6 '09, Tevet 10, 5769 IDF Kills Hamas Rocket Pgm Head IDF forces have killed top Hamas terrorist Ayman Siam, the head of the guerilla group's rocket and artillery unit in Gaza. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 3607 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/f02d3c03/attachment-0012.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 10325 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/f02d3c03/attachment-0013.jpe From mhyde7 at tds.net Tue Jan 6 12:45:28 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:45:28 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Follow me to the Land of Israel Message-ID: <006c01c9702e$f386e400$0400a8c0@marvin> Hey gang, Interested article in Arutz Sheva. If you like it there is a part two. Hanoch, do you know any detail you can fill us in on about this man and his Party. It I remember correctly his last name tells us he is of the priestly clan. Shalom, Marvin Ketzaleh: "Follow Me to the Land of Israel" - Part 1 by Chagit Rotenberg (IsraelNN.com) "We will bring smiles back to the faces of those who cherish the Land of Israel," says National Union party leader Yaakov "Ketzaleh" Katz in an exclusive interview with B'Sheva Magazine. Translated by Rochel Sylvetsky * The new leader of the National Union Party is proud of the fact that the list of candidates he heads unites four Zionist parties. * He predicts at least ten Knesset seats for the National Union, which he defines as the only party that presents a clear, unequivocal message of faithfulness to the Land of Israel as well as concentrating on welfare and educational needs. * All his friends from his old Shaked Commando Unit have promised to vote for him. He calls on other non-observant voters who love their country to join them. Just a few minutes spent at the modest Tekumah faction office near the entrance to Jerusalem are enough to dispel the breakaway image ascribed to them for leaving the recently-formed Jewish Home party. "Unity" is a more apt description of what is happening at the renewed National Union Party. Representatives of the four parties that make up the candidate list are shaking hands, slapping one another on the back and smiling. Dr. Arye Eldad and Baruch Merzel have just finished a meeting, Uri Ariel is gathering young and older party activists for afternoon prayers, "Moledet" and "Tekumah" faction representatives are busy discussing division of budgets and responsibilities. National Union Party Leader Yaakov "Ketzaleh" Katz Israel news photo: Sasson Tiram Their motivation is tangible, electrifying-and contagious. Overseeing it all is the new leader of the party, the charismatic Yaakov Katz, affectionately known as "Ketzaleh," who until now headed the Beit El Yeshiva institutions and the Arutz Sheva broadcast network. Also on his resume, Ketzaleh was a Shaked Commando unit officer who lost part of his leg in the 1973 Yom Kippur War, senior advisor to Housing Minister Ariel Sharon during the period when Sharon promoted extensive building in Judea and Samaria, composer of Chassidic songs, founder of the town of Beit El and father of seven. Those who know Ketzaleh are not surprised to see how naturally he puts his considerable rhetorical skills, energies and proven abilities into political leadership. Ketzaleh considers leading the battle to preserve Israel's territorial integrity and build up the Land to be the most important issue on his agenda, one he feels has been neglected by all other parties. During our interview, however, he also discussed coping with the Hamas in Gaza, allocations for religious educational institutions, raising child allowances and finding ways to define the High Court's jurisdiction. First and foremost, Ketzaleh emphasized, that his leadership stems from belief in the wisdom of Torah Sages. He describes the path he took from the Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva to the Yeshiva in Beit El, under the guidance of Rabbi Tzvi Yehuda Kook's close student, Rabbi Zalman Melamed. Ketzaleh talks of his deep relationship with former Sephardic Chief Rabbi of the State of Israel Mordecai Eliyahu, Hevron Chief Rabbi Dov Lior and noted scholar Rabbi Chaim Shteiner. The party he leads has accepted Rabbis as its guides, a policy that Ketzaleh believes is the only way to succeed. Calls To Head The List From All Directions B'Sheva: What led to your agreeing to head the National Union party? Ketzaleh: "The decision was the result of pressure from Rabbinic figures, foremost among them Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, through his son Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu. When I visited Rabbi Eliyahu, he quoted the words of the angel to Gideon in the book of Judges: 'Go forward with the strength you have and you will save the People of Israel.' His words accompany my every step. In addition, there is my mentor Rabbi Zalman Melamed, to whom I have been close for many years. Rabbi Dov Lior, Rabbi Yaakov Yosef (son of Shas party mentor Rabbi Ovadia Yosef) as well as non-observant public figures such as Dr. Arye Eldad and others also turned to me, feeling that the Land of Israel issue had been put aside in the failed attempt to unite the parties that were to form the 'Jewish Home.' "I am not a typical politician. In my work over the years, I had to be well aware of political affairs, but did not take active part in them. I was a close advisor of Arik [Ariel] Sharon during his good years, even serving as his personal advisor on settlement when he was Minister of Housing [1990-1992]. Way before that, Arik's ranch was my "home away from home. "I have always been closely involved with politics and public service in various ways. I established the Arutz Sheva communications network, which touches on politics without being political, deals in depth with Torah issues and real accomplishments, political, military and general affairs, but never held political office and never aspired to. It was important to me to effect change and being a politician is not the only way to do this. However, all the political parties who promote the Land of Israel issue were willing to unite if I assumed leadership and convinced me to listen to the SOS signals sent my way. "The Land of Israel is up for humiliating barter in the hands of politicians who do not hold the Land dear to their hearts. I decided to accept this challenge in order to represent the lovers of the Land of Israel who see it being given away bit by bit. I am glad I did so, now that one can see everyone working together here so unselfishly for this idealistic cause. Our goal is to reach a position of strength with at least ten mandates. After all, in the last elections the National Union party and the National Religious Party together got nine seats. We hope to reap votes from the Likud after the Likud party moved [Land of Israel loyalist] Moshe Feiglin down to 36th place, and from other parties whose leaders fear promoting Israel's territorial integrity such as Avigdor Lieberman and others. I believe that under my leadership, supported entirely by our Torah Sages, we will succeed in rallying an uplifted, united, idealistic constituency. The Land Of Israel Comes First B'Sheva: In your first press conference, you spoke about being an party for the Land of Israel. What about the Torah and the People of Israel? Ketzaleh: "For years, the Israeli media has intentionally made talking about the Land of Israel off limits. If you mention love of the Land of Israel, you are simply not "in." That is why we are consciously emphasizing it and putting it at the head of our platform, but we will certainly concentrate on education and Torah. Everyone, including the secular candidates on our list, knows that the Book of Books is the basis of our being here, everyone who has seen [number two candidate] Uri Ariel and I in action knows that we put great efforts into promoting education, welfare and ethics, but the Shas and Agudah religious parties do too. We are the only ones fighting for the Land of Israel, while the others have already tacitly given it up. Shas talks about Jerusalem because they have already sold out on the regions of Judea and Samaria. The Agudah party was a partner to the 2005 Disengagement catastrophe that brought the rockets upon us in the South. The public knows that we can be relied on here, that we will never tell them the day after the elections that 'what can be seen from here cannot be seen from there' (Ariel Sharon's excuse for actions that were the diametric opposite of his campaign promises). B'Sheva: How will you advance the cause of the Land of Israel in the Knesset? Ketzaleh: When I was Ariel Sharon's assistant in the Housing Ministry, we built three billion dollars worth of settlements, including sixty thousand housing units in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the Golan Heights. We helped all the institutions that were connected to Torah, including the hareidi sector. This is our field of expertise, and we intend to continue it in the upcoming Knesset. B'Sheva: The public perceives the National Religious Party as the party that cares about funds for religious education. Will the National Union party under your leadership also do so? Ketzaleh: The National Union Knesset members in the previous Knesset, Tzvi Hendel and Uri Ariel, were among those who worked successfully to obtain budgets for religious education. Not that MK's Orlev and Slomiansky didn't work hard, but not more than Uri and Tzvi did, or more than Chanan Porat and Rabbi Yitzchak Levy during their periods in the Knesset. Heads of educational institutions remember me from the days in the Housing Ministry and know our talents on those issues. I believe that the Land of Israel will blossom and that education will blossom with her." The Shaked Commando Unit Soldiers Join B'Sheva: If Netanyahu forms the next coalition, he may do it with Kadima and Labor. Are you afraid he will leave you outside? Ketzaleh: "That could happen. I don't completely rely on Bibi [Netanyahu], but in order to form a coalition, one doesn't have to be the largest party, only the one that can form a government with the largest bloc. The more votes the National Union gets, the more it will be impossible for the head of the government to function without us. That is why we must be a central factor in this bloc, one that cannot be ignored. I did not enter this campaign for 5-6 mandates, but because I felt that if we could win 9 seats in the past election, we can get to more than ten now." B'Sheva: You have only 40 days to campaign. Isn't that too little time for electoral achievement? Ketzaleh: "Sometimes a short span of time is all for the good. People have succeeded in effecting revolutions in a short time when there was a mass awakening. I receive hundreds of telephone calls at all hours from religious and non-religious people who say: Ketzaleh, you have returned the smile to our faces. You have given us hope, we feel we have someone to turn to. "My friends from my commando unit called me. Brig.-Gen. Patzi (Amatsia Chen), a non observant kibbutznik from Huldah, called to say: I don't usually vote, but when I saw that Ketzaleh's at the head, I will vote for him. All the Shaked Commandoes will vote Ketzaleh. You cannot imagine the joy in the settlements, the calls we've received, all because we have stopped the doubletalk and raised the flag of the Land of Israel, and we are not afraid of the media and will not bend to their whims. There is a great awakening and thousands will come out to help us and work together, but first we must believe that we can win and bring a new message to our people. The organization, seriousness and self sacrifice of our group that works day and night is self evident, for otherwise we might lose the Land of Israel, G-d forbid." For the continuation of this article, click here for Part Two -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/719281d7/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17868 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/719281d7/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 28833 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/719281d7/attachment-0001.jpe From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 6 12:53:01 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:53:01 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] today.. In-Reply-To: <855590370901060252r27ff0fb3ja6d70ba3dba943e1@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901060252r27ff0fb3ja6d70ba3dba943e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <699F1CABF2AA4A8DA5C7728331418F76@bettylaptop> Thanks so much for this, Hanoch. I would have most likely let the day go by unnoticed had you not reminded us. I do so appreciate this and I appreciate YOU for sending this out. May you have a meaningful fast. Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:52 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] today.. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/ Daily Israel Report Subscribe (free) Home News News Briefs Opinion Judaism Features Blogs Admin Radio | Live http://www.israelnationalnews.com/static/a7radio.asx TV Jukebox Israel Pics Services RSS Advertise The Fast of the Tenth Tevet 10, 5769, 06 January 09 12:04 by by Daniel Pinner (IsraelNN.com) "And it happened in the ninth year of [Zedekiah's] reign, in the tenth month [i.e., Tevet], on the tenth of the month, that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came - he and all his army - against Jerusalem, besieged it and built a siege tower around it." (II Kings 25:1, Jeremiah 52:4) Zedekiah was the very last king of Judah, who had ascended the throne in a turbulent period of Jewish history. One hundred and twenty-two years earlier, Shalmaneser, king of Assyria, had conquered the northern kingdom of Israel; he took King Hoshea captive and sent the ten tribes into exile, scattered throughout the Assyrian Empire, where they were lost to the Jewish national body. The southern kingdom of Judea would survive for another 133 years, under constant threat of invasion and occasional incursions from Egypt and Babylon, before finally being invaded and conquered by Nebuchadnezzar. Zedekiah's father, Josiah, had reigned for thirty-one years. He had ascended the throne when he was just eight years old, and tried desperately to repair the spiritual ravages that his predecessors had caused to the nation: he renovated the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, which had not been maintained properly since King Jehoash, eight kings and over 200 years previously; he restored the Torah to Judah; he destroyed the idols, including the Asherah tree from the Holy Temple, and burned them all; he dismissed the priests of idolatry and destroyed the rooms that they had maintained within the Holy Temple; he destroyed all the idolatrous altars throughout the Land; and he restored the Pesach sacrifice, which had been neglected for centuries. His reign came to an abrupt end when Pharaoh Neco wanted to traverse through Judea on his way to fight Assyria. King Josiah would not tolerate a foreign army on Judean soil, so he confronted the pharaoh in Megiddo. In the ensuing battle, Pharaoh Neco killed King Josiah, whereupon the masses anointed Josiah's son Jehoahaz as king. Jehoahaz, however, was an evil king; and after reigning for just three months, the pharaoh captured him, exiled him, reduced Judea to a vassal state, and put Jehoaz's brother Eliakim on the throne, changing his name to Jehoiakim. Jehoiakim, also an evil king, reigned for eleven years, first as a vassal of Egypt, then of Babylon. Eventually, a Babylonian-Moabite-Ammonite alliance attacked Judea, inflicting terrible damage. Jehoiakim died, and his eighteen-year-old son Jehoiachin became king. Jehoiachin was just as evil as his father and, after he reigned for just three months, Babylon besieged Jerusalem, pillaged the treasures of the Holy Temple, exiled tens of thousands of Jews, and took King Jehoiachin into captivity in Babylon. The king of Babylon then crowned Jehoiachin's uncle, Mattaniah, as vassal-king of Judea, changing his name to Zedekiah. And then, after nine years of autonomy in the Babylonian Empire, on the tenth of Tevet, the Babylonian army began its siege on Jerusalem, the last stage before the final obliteration of Jewish independence. Just seven months later, on the 7th of Av, Nebuzaradan, the chief executioner of Babylon, would arrive in Jerusalem to burn the Holy Temple two days later - on the 9th of Av. The 9th of Av had been ordained as a day of destruction and mourning ever since the spies whom Moshe had sent to spy out the Land of Israel had returned, given their evil report, and the nation spurned the Land of Israel and cried in their lack of faith. The Talmud (Ta'anit 29a) calculates the Torah's chronology: on the 20th of Iyar we left Mount Sinai (Numbers 10:11); this was followed by a three-day journey (v.33) concluding on the 23rd of Iyar; a 30-day sojourn in Kibroth-Hata'avah (ibid. 11:20, 34) concluding on the 22nd of Sivan; and finally seven days in Hazeroth (11:35, 12:15-16) before reaching the Paran Desert (ibid. 12:16) on the 29th of Sivan. Hence, Moshe sent out the twelve spies on the 29th of Sivan (compare Targum Yonatan to Numbers 13:20). They returned forty days later on the 8th of Av and gave their evil report of the Land; and when night fell and the nation cried, it was the evening of the 9th of Av. Instead of the 9th of Av being the day that we entered the Land of Israel and brought the redemption, it became a day of tragedy. But what event foreshadowed the siege of Jerusalem beginning on the 10th of Tevet? It seems to me that the Torah gives us a hint of what the background was. 1,291 years before the First Temple was destroyed, three angels appeared to Abraham and Sarah, heralding the birth of their son Isaac the following year (Genesis 18:1-14). The Talmud and the midrashim are consistent about the chronology: the angel promised Sarah that she would bear her son Isaac exactly one year hence (18:10); the 400 years of Abraham's seed living as "strangers in a land not their own" (15:13) began with the birth of Isaac and finished with the Exodus from Egypt. Since the Exodus occurred on the 15th of Nisan, Isaac was born 400 years to the day earlier; i.e., also on the 15th of Nisan. And since the angelic prophecy to Sarah was one year to the day before Isaac was born, this episode also happened on the 15th of Nisan. This was also the day before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, sparing only Lot and his two daughters, who fled into the hills (Genesis 19:1-25). The night following the destruction, Lot's daughters, fearing that they were the only three people remaining in the world, plied their father with drink and impregnated themselves by him. They gave birth to sons - the elder bore Moab and the younger bore the ancestor of Ammon (19:30-38). Nine months after the 16th of Nisan brings us to the 10th of Tevet. Hence, Moab and Ammon, the two nations who, in alliance with Babylon, would attack Judea and thus initiate the process that would culminate in Judea being captured and the Holy Temple destroyed, were born on the 10th of Tevet - the day that Babylon began the siege on Jerusalem. Thus, Jewish independence would be extinguished in the Land of Israel and, for the next 70 years, the Land was to lie desolate under Babylonian occupation. At the end of that time, the Persian King Cyrus (Koresh) defeated Babylon, inherited the Babylonian Empire - including Israel - and proclaimed the right of any Jew who wanted to return to Israel and to rebuild the Holy Temple. In the days of the Second Temple, we did not fast on the fast days of mourning (the 17th of Tammuz, the 9th of Av, Tzom Gedaliyah on the 3rd of Tishrei, and the 10th of Tevet): one does not mourn over the destruction on the Temple while the Temple is standing. The Rambam, however, states that the Jews did fast on the 9th of Av in the Second Temple period (commentary to the Mishnah, Rosh HaShanah 1:3; "Laws of Fasts" 5:5). It seems puzzling that we should fast in mourning for the Temple when the Temple is standing. The Maggid Mishneh (commentary on the Mishneh Torah by Rabbi Vidal of Tolosa, 14th-century Spain) explains: "According to our rabbi [the Rambam], the custom [whether or not to fast] depends upon the circumstances, as the Talmud [Rosh HaShanah 18b] makes clear. In a time of peace - which means when the Holy Temple is built - the fast days are days of rejoicing and gladness; in times of persecution, they are fast days; and in times when there is neither peace nor persecution, every Jew who desires to fast can fast. However, fasting is not obligatory, with the exception of the fast of the 9th of Av, because there were so many disasters on this day. But now, everyone fasts on all these days and all are obligatory upon every Jew until the Holy Temple will be rebuilt." (Maggid Mishneh on "Laws of Fasts" 5:5) Evidently, the Second Temple, being only temporary, could annul three of the four fasts of mourning. But the 9th of Av is such a disastrous day that a temporary Temple cannot override it. But the third and final Holy Temple will convert even the 9th of Av into the day of joy and festivity that it was originally intended to be, a day of redemption: "Thus said HaShem, Lord of Legions: The fast of the fourth [month, i.e., Tammuz] and the fast of the fifth [month, i.e., Av] and the fast of the seventh [month, i.e., Tishrei], and the fast of the tenth [month, i.e., Tevet] will turn into rejoicing and gladness and festivities for the House of Judah. So love truth and peace." (Zechariah 8:19) www.IsraelNationalNews.com C Copyright IsraelNationalNews.com Subscribe to the free Daily Israel Report - sub.israelnn.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/6a4181f8/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jan 6 14:00:42 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 06:00:42 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] photos don't lie..] Message-ID: <4963B86A.8050905@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/0ef5bfe7/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Hanoch Young" Subject: [Dialogue] photos don't lie.. Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 03:19:36 -0800 Size: 5798 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/0ef5bfe7/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jan 6 14:12:18 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 06:12:18 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF] Message-ID: <4963BB22.6000905@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/45e26b29/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: moz-screenshot-8.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2932 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/45e26b29/attachment.jpg -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Pat Robbins" Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:10:11 -0500 Size: 34014 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/45e26b29/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jan 6 14:57:27 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 06:57:27 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Learn to want what God wants - The Jewish people can help fix the world Message-ID: <4963C5B7.2020605@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/7a338f08/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 6 15:08:05 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 15:08:05 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF] In-Reply-To: <4963BB22.6000905@westnet.com.au> References: <4963BB22.6000905@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <8FFC522466794B0488F02CF772BD9716@bettylaptop> I was just reading about the death of Dvir, (May his memory be for a blessing!) the first Israeli soldier who died in combat in the Gaza war, when this email came in. Looking into the faces of Yonathan and Dvir makes everything so much more real. They are not just "numbers" .they are sons, brothers, some husbands and fathers.they gave their life's blood.and they leave behind them a trail of tears with loved ones pained and reeling.what a tragic loss. Yet the brave, strong and courageous young men and women of Israel continue to go forth and fight for their fellow brothers and sisters because they believe that the sacrifice is worth it. One of the comments on the Aish.com website regarding Divri and his death really hit me hard. It so beautifully expressed the value of their lives and their sacrifice.I will copy and paste it below. BTW, on the Synagogue Without Walls Website, Rachael has provided us with a list of names of soldiers she is gathering that we can actually pray for by name, and Hanoch recently added a special prayer for the soldiers and the residents in the South. 1) Anonymous, 6/1/2009 One life is too much The death of this beautiful young man, and the sorrow that every Jew who knows of it feels, is what all this is really about. We understand, and always have. We know, that the value of one life is beyond measure, and that we do not need for many to die, to feel the pain. The news keeps reporting the numbers, but for Jews, the numbers are not what matters. What matters is one. One life is all it takes. One life to grieve. One life to celebrate. One life.....only one. Sadly, there will be more. Rest in peace Dvir, your life, your one life, mattered. Your one life is all our lives. We will not forget. Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Joe Indomenico Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:12 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF] Shalom Chaverim, Wednesday, January 7 Yonatan H"YD Captain Yonatan Netanel, 27, from Kedumim in Shomron, was one of four soldiers killed by mistaken IDF fire in Gaza on Monday. Netanel was a graduate of 'Yashlatz', the Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva High School in Yerushalayim. He then attended the Bnei David IDF preparatory yeshiva in Yishuv Eli in Shomron for three years. He entered the army serving in the Paratroops Corps. Captain Netanel was married to Tziona and they have a 3-month-old daughter. Below is a comment left at a Yeshiva website which expresses how we all feel, not just for Yonatan, but for all the soldiers who have been killed defending Eretz Yisrael: To the family of Yonatan Netanel, H"YD Hamakom Yinachem Eschem b'soch Sh'ar aveilei Tzion Viyerushalayim. Umachah HaShem Dima May'al Kol Panim To Tziona Netanel: You don't know me. I am a religious Jew from New York. But You have become a "donor". for me, and all of klal yisroel. Your heroism, at allowing your husband to go into a war zone, when you have a 3 month old child at home, fills me with awe. Your sacrifice is not going unnoticed. Not by me, not by your family, not by all who live in Eretz Yisrael. and now, not by your extended "family" in the United States. I don't intend to forget you. May Hakadosh Boruch Hu repay you for your chesed, and for the ultimate sacrifice you have made on our behalf. May your daughter grow up healthy, strong, and secure, in knowing that her father wanted to be there for her, but had a mission to accomplish. And may you be comforted, among the mourners of Zion and Yerushalayim by the ONLY ONE who can give you comfort at this time. A Jew in New York. ............................ The three soldiers killed Monday night, Jan 5, by an Israeli tank shell in mid-battle with Hamas on the fringes of Gaza City were members of the Golani Brigade's 13th Battalion: Cpl. Yusuf Muadi HYD, 19, from Yerka Major Dagan Whartman HYD, 32, from Maaleh Machmesh 1st Sgt. Nitai Stern HYD, 21, from Jerusalem 1st Sgt. Alexander Mashvitzky HYD, 19, from Beersheba, was killed Tuesday, Jan. 6, when his combat engineering unit came under Hamas fire in Gaza City. Four of his comrades were injured. They eliminated the source of fire. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/1307fbff/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2932 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/1307fbff/attachment.jpe From mhyde7 at tds.net Tue Jan 6 15:19:11 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:19:11 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF] In-Reply-To: <4963BB22.6000905@westnet.com.au> References: <4963BB22.6000905@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <002f01c97044$6ccc38a0$0400a8c0@marvin> Joe, Do u know what the H"YD stands for at the end of the soldiers names? Thanks, marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Joe Indomenico Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:12 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF] Shalom Chaverim, Wednesday, January 7 Yonatan H"YD Captain Yonatan Netanel, 27, from Kedumim in Shomron, was one of four soldiers killed by mistaken IDF fire in Gaza on Monday. Netanel was a graduate of 'Yashlatz', the Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva High School in Yerushalayim. He then attended the Bnei David IDF preparatory yeshiva in Yishuv Eli in Shomron for three years. He entered the army serving in the Paratroops Corps. Captain Netanel was married to Tziona and they have a 3-month-old daughter. Below is a comment left at a Yeshiva website which expresses how we all feel, not just for Yonatan, but for all the soldiers who have been killed defending Eretz Yisrael: To the family of Yonatan Netanel, H"YD Hamakom Yinachem Eschem b'soch Sh'ar aveilei Tzion Viyerushalayim. Umachah HaShem Dima May'al Kol Panim To Tziona Netanel: You don't know me. I am a religious Jew from New York. But You have become a "donor". for me, and all of klal yisroel. Your heroism, at allowing your husband to go into a war zone, when you have a 3 month old child at home, fills me with awe. Your sacrifice is not going unnoticed. Not by me, not by your family, not by all who live in Eretz Yisrael. and now, not by your extended "family" in the United States. I don't intend to forget you. May Hakadosh Boruch Hu repay you for your chesed, and for the ultimate sacrifice you have made on our behalf. May your daughter grow up healthy, strong, and secure, in knowing that her father wanted to be there for her, but had a mission to accomplish. And may you be comforted, among the mourners of Zion and Yerushalayim by the ONLY ONE who can give you comfort at this time. A Jew in New York. ............................ The three soldiers killed Monday night, Jan 5, by an Israeli tank shell in mid-battle with Hamas on the fringes of Gaza City were members of the Golani Brigade's 13th Battalion: Cpl. Yusuf Muadi HYD, 19, from Yerka Major Dagan Whartman HYD, 32, from Maaleh Machmesh 1st Sgt. Nitai Stern HYD, 21, from Jerusalem 1st Sgt. Alexander Mashvitzky HYD, 19, from Beersheba, was killed Tuesday, Jan. 6, when his combat engineering unit came under Hamas fire in Gaza City. Four of his comrades were injured. They eliminated the source of fire. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/1aa049a3/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2932 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/1aa049a3/attachment.jpe From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 15:26:07 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:26:07 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF] In-Reply-To: <002f01c97044$6ccc38a0$0400a8c0@marvin> References: <4963BB22.6000905@westnet.com.au> <002f01c97044$6ccc38a0$0400a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <855590370901061326u38a26e2eg2fcef8cfee7c0951@mail.gmail.com> Hey Marvin, H"YD stands for 'HaShem Yikom Damo" - May G-d avenge his blood. I fear that we will be seeing many more young men with that written after their name.... Hope to answer your political question a bit later - take care * Hanoch * On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 4:19 PM, mhyde wrote: > Joe, > > Do u know what the H"YD stands for at the end of the soldiers names? > > > > Thanks, marvin > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *Joe Indomenico > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:12 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF] > > > > *Shalom Chaverim,* > > > > > *Wednesday, January 7* *Yonatan H"YD > * > > > > Captain Yonatan Netanel, 27, from Kedumim in Shomron, was one of four > soldiers killed by mistaken IDF fire in Gaza on Monday. > > > > Netanel was a graduate of 'Yashlatz', the Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva High School > in Yerushalayim. He then attended the Bnei David IDF preparatory yeshiva in > Yishuv Eli in Shomron for three years. He entered the army serving in the > Paratroops Corps. > > Captain Netanel was married to Tziona and they have a 3-month-old daughter. > > > Below is a comment left at a Yeshiva website which expresses how we all > feel, not just for Yonatan, but for all the soldiers who have been killed > defending Eretz Yisrael: > > *To the family of Yonatan Netanel, H"YD* > > *Hamakom Yinachem Eschem b'soch Sh'ar aveilei Tzion Viyerushalayim.** > Umachah HaShem Dima May'al Kol Panim* > > *To Tziona Netanel: You don't know me. I am a religious Jew from New York. > But You have become a "donor"? for me, and all of klal yisroel. Your > heroism, at allowing your husband to go into a war zone, when you have a 3 > month old child at home, fills me with awe. Your sacrifice is not going > unnoticed. Not by me, not by your family, not by all who live in Eretz > Yisrael? and now, not by your extended "family" in the United States.* > > > > *I don't intend to forget you. May Hakadosh Boruch Hu repay you for your > chesed, and for the ultimate sacrifice you have made on our behalf. May your > daughter grow up healthy, strong, and secure, in knowing that her father > wanted to be there for her, but had a mission to accomplish. And may you be > comforted, among the mourners of Zion and Yerushalayim by the ONLY ONE who > can give you comfort at this time.* > > > > *A Jew in New York. * > > > > ............................ > > > > The three soldiers killed Monday night, Jan 5, by an Israeli tank shell in > mid-battle with Hamas on the fringes of Gaza City were members of the Golani > Brigade's 13th Battalion: > > > > Cpl. Yusuf Muadi HYD, 19, from Yerka > > > > Major Dagan Whartman HYD, 32, from Maaleh Machmesh > > > > 1st Sgt. Nitai Stern HYD, 21, from Jerusalem > > > > 1st Sgt. Alexander Mashvitzky HYD, 19, from Beersheba, was killed Tuesday, > Jan. 6, when his combat engineering unit came under Hamas fire in Gaza City. > Four of his comrades were injured. They eliminated the source of fire. > > *Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE.* > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/b9672cac/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 6 15:36:36 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 15:36:36 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Learn to want what God wants - The Jewish people can help fix the world In-Reply-To: <4963C5B7.2020605@westnet.com.au> References: <4963C5B7.2020605@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <433A30E7B1F749548645F548BFCF079B@bettylaptop> Shalom Joe, This is a fantastic website, very broad based. I read the article you posted and went on the explore the very practical sections on Mitzvot and also The 1% Solution. These are things that are both very doable and practical and at the same time have the potential to enhance our connection to HaShem and to one another. Toda rabba. Shalom v/Ahavah Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Joe Indomenico Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:57 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Learn to want what God wants - The Jewish people can help fix the world Shalom Chaverim, I stumbled across this amazing website. I have posted one of the articles. For those who are not Jewish and have a yearning to unite as a returning penitent , this article says it all. There are many other good articles to read if you are inclined to this understanding. http://www.jewishfuture.com/jf_want_what_god_wants.shtml Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/0e62b422/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 15:46:10 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:46:10 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF] In-Reply-To: <8FFC522466794B0488F02CF772BD9716@bettylaptop> References: <4963BB22.6000905@westnet.com.au> <8FFC522466794B0488F02CF772BD9716@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <855590370901061346w378af3ddx9d6299f08872977d@mail.gmail.com> Hey Betty, One quick point - the list that Rachel put on the Synagogue Without Walls *ONLY* includes soldiers who are "Messianic Believers" (her terminology, not mine). I will refrain from comment....... * Hanoch * On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Betty Givin wrote: > I was just reading about the death of Dvir, (May his memory be for a > blessing!) the first Israeli soldier who died in combat in the Gaza war, > when this email came in. Looking into the faces of Yonathan and Dvir makes > everything so much more real. They are not just "numbers" ?they are sons, > brothers, some husbands and fathers?they gave their life's blood?and they > leave behind them a trail of tears with loved ones pained and reeling?what a > tragic loss. Yet the brave, strong and courageous young men and women of > Israel continue to go forth and fight for their fellow brothers and sisters > because they believe that the sacrifice is worth it. One of the comments on > the Aish.com website regarding Divri and his death really hit me hard. It > so beautifully expressed the value of their lives and their sacrifice?I will > copy and paste it below? > > > > BTW, on the Synagogue Without Walls Website, Rachael has provided us with a > list of names of soldiers she is gathering that we can actually pray for by > name, and Hanoch recently added a special prayer for the soldiers and the > residents in the South. > > *1)* *Anonymous*, 6/1/2009 > *One life is too much* > *The death of this beautiful young man, and the sorrow that every Jew who > knows of it feels, is what all this is really about. We understand, and > always have. We know, that the value of one life is beyond measure, and that > we do not need for many to die, to feel the pain. The news keeps reporting > the numbers, but for Jews, the numbers are not what matters. What matters is > one. One life is all it takes. One life to grieve. One life to celebrate. > One life.....only one. Sadly, there will be more. Rest in peace Dvir, your > life, your one life, mattered. Your one life is all our lives. We will not > forget. * > > Elisheva/Betty > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *Joe Indomenico > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:12 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF] > > > > *Shalom Chaverim,* > > > > > *Wednesday, January 7* *Yonatan H"YD > * > > > > Captain Yonatan Netanel, 27, from Kedumim in Shomron, was one of four > soldiers killed by mistaken IDF fire in Gaza on Monday. > > > > Netanel was a graduate of 'Yashlatz', the Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva High School > in Yerushalayim. He then attended the Bnei David IDF preparatory yeshiva in > Yishuv Eli in Shomron for three years. He entered the army serving in the > Paratroops Corps. > > Captain Netanel was married to Tziona and they have a 3-month-old daughter. > > > Below is a comment left at a Yeshiva website which expresses how we all > feel, not just for Yonatan, but for all the soldiers who have been killed > defending Eretz Yisrael: > > *To the family of Yonatan Netanel, H"YD* > > *Hamakom Yinachem Eschem b'soch Sh'ar aveilei Tzion Viyerushalayim.** > Umachah HaShem Dima May'al Kol Panim* > > *To Tziona Netanel: You don't know me. I am a religious Jew from New York. > But You have become a "donor"? for me, and all of klal yisroel. Your > heroism, at allowing your husband to go into a war zone, when you have a 3 > month old child at home, fills me with awe. Your sacrifice is not going > unnoticed. Not by me, not by your family, not by all who live in Eretz > Yisrael? and now, not by your extended "family" in the United States.* > > > > *I don't intend to forget you. May Hakadosh Boruch Hu repay you for your > chesed, and for the ultimate sacrifice you have made on our behalf. May your > daughter grow up healthy, strong, and secure, in knowing that her father > wanted to be there for her, but had a mission to accomplish. And may you be > comforted, among the mourners of Zion and Yerushalayim by the ONLY ONE who > can give you comfort at this time.* > > > > *A Jew in New York. * > > > > ............................ > > > > The three soldiers killed Monday night, Jan 5, by an Israeli tank shell in > mid-battle with Hamas on the fringes of Gaza City were members of the Golani > Brigade's 13th Battalion: > > > > Cpl. Yusuf Muadi HYD, 19, from Yerka > > > > Major Dagan Whartman HYD, 32, from Maaleh Machmesh > > > > 1st Sgt. Nitai Stern HYD, 21, from Jerusalem > > > > 1st Sgt. Alexander Mashvitzky HYD, 19, from Beersheba, was killed Tuesday, > Jan. 6, when his combat engineering unit came under Hamas fire in Gaza City. > Four of his comrades were injured. They eliminated the source of fire. > > *Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE.* > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/e80cde83/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2932 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/e80cde83/attachment.jpe From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 6 16:08:34 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:08:34 -0600 Subject: Hanoch[Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF] In-Reply-To: <855590370901061346w378af3ddx9d6299f08872977d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4963BB22.6000905@westnet.com.au><8FFC522466794B0488F02CF772BD9716@bettylaptop> <855590370901061346w378af3ddx9d6299f08872977d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hanoch, thank you for this information. I was not aware of that. Perhaps I should learn to read more thoroughly. I will certainly continue to pray for these young men, but will not by any means limit my prayers to this list. I just discovered on Aish.com a way to request the name of an Israeli soldier to pray for. It is in the article, 7 Ways to Help Israel under the first section on Prayer. I thought it very worthwhile, and will send the link to the list. Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:46 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF] Hey Betty, One quick point - the list that Rachel put on the Synagogue Without Walls ONLY includes soldiers who are "Messianic Believers" (her terminology, not mine). I will refrain from comment....... Hanoch On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Betty Givin wrote: I was just reading about the death of Dvir, (May his memory be for a blessing!) the first Israeli soldier who died in combat in the Gaza war, when this email came in. Looking into the faces of Yonathan and Dvir makes everything so much more real. They are not just "numbers" .they are sons, brothers, some husbands and fathers.they gave their life's blood.and they leave behind them a trail of tears with loved ones pained and reeling.what a tragic loss. Yet the brave, strong and courageous young men and women of Israel continue to go forth and fight for their fellow brothers and sisters because they believe that the sacrifice is worth it. One of the comments on the Aish.com website regarding Divri and his death really hit me hard. It so beautifully expressed the value of their lives and their sacrifice.I will copy and paste it below. BTW, on the Synagogue Without Walls Website, Rachael has provided us with a list of names of soldiers she is gathering that we can actually pray for by name, and Hanoch recently added a special prayer for the soldiers and the residents in the South. 1) Anonymous, 6/1/2009 One life is too much The death of this beautiful young man, and the sorrow that every Jew who knows of it feels, is what all this is really about. We understand, and always have. We know, that the value of one life is beyond measure, and that we do not need for many to die, to feel the pain. The news keeps reporting the numbers, but for Jews, the numbers are not what matters. What matters is one. One life is all it takes. One life to grieve. One life to celebrate. One life.....only one. Sadly, there will be more. Rest in peace Dvir, your life, your one life, mattered. Your one life is all our lives. We will not forget. Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Joe Indomenico Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:12 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Brothers in arms IDF] Shalom Chaverim, Wednesday, January 7 Yonatan H "YD Captain Yonatan Netanel, 27, from Kedumim in Shomron, was one of four soldiers killed by mistaken IDF fire in Gaza on Monday. Netanel was a graduate of 'Yashlatz', the Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva High School in Yerushalayim. He then attended the Bnei David IDF preparatory yeshiva in Yishuv Eli in Shomron for three years. He entered the army serving in the Paratroops Corps. Captain Netanel was married to Tziona and they have a 3-month-old daughter. Below is a comment left at a Yeshiva website which expresses how we all feel, not just for Yonatan, but for all the soldiers who have been killed defending Eretz Yisrael: To the family of Yonatan Netanel, H"YD Hamakom Yinachem Eschem b'soch Sh'ar aveilei Tzion Viyerushalayim. Umachah HaShem Dima May'al Kol Panim To Tziona Netanel: You don't know me. I am a religious Jew from New York. But You have become a "donor". for me, and all of klal yisroel. Your heroism, at allowing your husband to go into a war zone, when you have a 3 month old child at home, fills me with awe. Your sacrifice is not going unnoticed. Not by me, not by your family, not by all who live in Eretz Yisrael. and now, not by your extended "family" in the United States. I don't intend to forget you. May Hakadosh Boruch Hu repay you for your chesed, and for the ultimate sacrifice you have made on our behalf. May your daughter grow up healthy, strong, and secure, in knowing that her father wanted to be there for her, but had a mission to accomplish. And may you be comforted, among the mourners of Zion and Yerushalayim by the ONLY ONE who can give you comfort at this time. A Jew in New York. ............................ The three soldiers killed Monday night, Jan 5, by an Israeli tank shell in mid-battle with Hamas on the fringes of Gaza City were members of the Golani Brigade's 13th Battalion: Cpl. Yusuf Muadi HYD, 19, from Yerka Major Dagan Whartman HYD, 32, from Maaleh Machmesh 1st Sgt. Nitai Stern HYD, 21, from Jerusalem 1st Sgt. Alexander Mashvitzky HYD, 19, from Beersheba, was killed Tuesday, Jan. 6, when his combat engineering unit came under Hamas fire in Gaza City. Four of his comrades were injured. They eliminated the source of fire. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/5cfb3064/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2932 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/5cfb3064/attachment.jpe From ptyler at aac-usa.com Tue Jan 6 16:15:24 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:15:24 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] FYI: Biden's "generated crisis" will be a war against Israel In-Reply-To: References: <4963BB22.6000905@westnet.com.au><8FFC522466794B0488F02CF772BD9716@bettylaptop> <855590370901061346w378af3ddx9d6299f08872977d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00f701c9704c$482c0680$d8841380$@com> Shalom All, The following was written before the attacks on Gaza. Please note that I neither agree nor disagree with it, but would like to offer it for discussion if anyone is interested: http://www.holyland-inc.net/israpundit-flags.jpg Biden's "generated crisis" will be a war against Israel BIDEN HAS INSIDE KNOWLEDGE By Ted Belman October 23, 2008 Senator Biden recently warned about an upcoming generated crises and asked for political support for Obama re-action "Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right." I know what he is referring to. At least I believe I do. In May of this year I wrote J-Street and Obama are in full agreement.http://i.ixnp.com/images/v3.62/t.gif It included J-Streets Statement of Principleshttp://i.ixnp.com/images/v3.62/t.gif J Street brings together Americans who seek a new direction for American policy in the Middle East and broader public and policy debate in the U.S. about ways to achieve lasting peace in the Middle East. We support: * Consistent and concerted diplomatic engagement by the United States to achieve Israeli-Arab peace. A negotiated end to the Israeli-Arab and Israeli-Palestinian conflicts serves both U.S. and Israeli strategic and security interests. Achieving it must be a priority for any future U.S. administration; (They insist that Israel be forced to capitulate.) * An enduring relationship between the US and Israel that promotes their common interests. We recognize and support Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people, a democratic country that promises equal rights for all its citizens and that has the right to defend itself against external threats; (But not a a Jewish state.There is a difference. * The creation of a viable Palestinian state as part of a negotiated two-state solution, based on the 1967 borders with agreed reciprocal land swaps. The future Palestinian state will require unprecedented levels of international economic and political support to succeed, including a resolution of the refugee issue within the new Palestinian state and in current host countries; (These borders would require the transfer of at least 150,000 Israelis.) * An Israeli-Syrian peace agreement based on the land-for-peace formula, security guarantees, and details outlined in previous negotiations; (Of what value are security guarantees?) * A comprehensive regional peace that builds on the Arab Initiative, leading to recognition of Israel by all its neighbors in the Middle East and the creation of a new regional approach to cooperation and security; (Pie in the sky.) * An American policy in the Middle East more broadly based on diplomacy, multilateralism and real partnership with the European Union, the Quartet and others. We support dialogue with a broad range of countries and actors, including Iran, over confrontation in order to find solutions to the region's conflicts. (They want to appease them rather than confront them.) Essentially they support the Saudi Plan. I believe they pay lip service to a negotiated settlement and understand, the settlement must be imposed. Of the utmost importance is the fact that both Obama and J-Street are supported by George Soros if not created by him. The prosecution of AIPAC's Steve Rosen and Keith Weissman was the first public move which was followed by Mearsheimer and Walt's book The Israel Lobby to undermine the power of AIPAC. Then J-Street was created to replace it. Thomas Friedman lent a hand by Redefining "What it means to be pro-Israel"http://i.ixnp.com/images/v3.62/t.gif Biden's remark suggests Pres Obama is going to administer tough love. Thus the ground work has been laid for "tough love" but a "generated crises" is needed to set the plan in motion. I expect that Intifadah III will soon break out which will spiral out of control with Hezbollah and Hamas joining in. Just this week Top Iran officials recommend preemptive strike against Israel http://i.ixnp.com/images/v3.62/t.gifand DEBKA Iran has developed a series of optional plans for pre-emptively attacking Israel The "floating dirty bomb."http://i.ixnp.com/images/v3.62/t.gif was intended for this purpose. The UNSC will then pass a Chapter VII resolution, without an American veto, demanding that Israel withdraw to the greenline and abandon all settlements. The UN sends a force consisting of soldiers from Jordan, Egypt and Syria to enforce it and establish "peace". And who would complain? Certainly not Olmert, the EU, J-Street and Obama's foreign policy team. In an interviewhttp://i.ixnp.com/images/v3.62/t.gif in 2002, Samantha Power, who is expected to be in Obama's cabinet was asked, Would you advise him to put a structure in place to monitor that situation, at least if one party or another looking like they might be moving toward genocide? Power gave an astonishing answer: What we don't need is some kind of early warning mechanism there, what we need is a willingness to put something on the line in helping the situation. Putting something on the line might mean alienating a domestic constituency of tremendous political and financial import; it may more crucially mean sacrificing-or investing, I think, more than sacrificing-billions of dollars, not in servicing Israel's military, but actually investing in the new state of Palestine, in investing the billions of dollars it would probably take, also, to support what will have to be a mammoth protection force, not of the old Rwanda kind, but a meaningful military presence. Because it seems to me at this stage (and this is true of actual genocides as well, and not just major human rights abuses, which were seen there), you have to go in as if you're serious, you have to put something on the line. Unfortunately, imposition of a solution on unwilling parties is dreadful. It's a terrible thing to do, it's fundamentally undemocratic. But, sadly, we don't just have a democracy here either, we have a liberal democracy. There are certain sets of principles that guide our policy, or that are meant to, anyway. It's essential that some set of principles becomes the benchmark, rather than a deference to who are fundamentally politically destined to destroy the lives of their own people. And by that I mean what Tom Friedman has called "Sharafat" [Sharon-Arafat]. I do think in that sense, both political leaders have been dreadfully irresponsible. And, unfortunately, it does require external intervention.. Any intervention is going to come under fierce criticism. But we have to think about lesser evils, especially when the human stakes are becoming ever more pronounced. Now you more fully understand Biden's remarks. In a 1992 Jerusalem Post storyhttp://i.ixnp.com/images/v3.62/t.gif, Biden threatened to cut off all aid to Israel unless all settlement activity was stopped. John Podhoretz discussed this in his recent Commentary article Did Biden Call for a Cut-Off in Aid to Israel?http://i.ixnp.com/images/v3.62/t.gif Both Biden and Power made these remarks in 2002 during the second Intifadah. We already have witnessed UN efforts to demand Israel withdraw and efforts to establish an Arab force to keep the peace in Gaza and Judea and Samaria. Egypt is hosting discussions between Hamas and Fatah. What could they be discussing. Remember, every time there is an Arab/Israeli war, the UN intervenes to stop it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/8c7d15e2/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 14534 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/8c7d15e2/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 43 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/8c7d15e2/attachment.gif From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 6 16:34:47 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:34:47 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Pray for an Israeli Soldier Message-ID: <2791A6622FC9420D8AD1A588CC629726@bettylaptop> Shalom Chavarim, I found this great article called 7 Ways You Can Help Israel. One of the ways of course is to pray, and an important part of prayer for Israel is to pray not only for its people, especially in the South, but also to pray for the Israeli soldiers who are daily risking their lives. Some of you may be privileged to know families and soldiers of Israel and are already praying for them by name, but many of us do not. If any of you are interested in doing this, there is a link you can click on (in the first section entitled, Prayer) to get the name of an Israeli soldier that you can personally pray for. Just think what it would mean if we all did this, and passed on the link to friends and family. I just did this. Will you join me? Link is www.aish.com Shalom v'Ahava, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/4f405f43/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jan 6 16:37:18 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:37:18 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] today.. In-Reply-To: <855590370901060252r27ff0fb3ja6d70ba3dba943e1@mail.gmail.com> <699F1CABF2AA4A8DA5C7728331418F76@bettylaptop> References: <855590370901060252r27ff0fb3ja6d70ba3dba943e1@mail.gmail.com> <699F1CABF2AA4A8DA5C7728331418F76@bettylaptop> Message-ID: It's almost sundown here, and it WAS a meaningful fast. So nice to know that we were all in it together, and I know we were all praying for our troops, and remembering those who have fallen. Love, Pat From: Betty Givin Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 1:53 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] today.. Thanks so much for this, Hanoch. I would have most likely let the day go by unnoticed had you not reminded us. I do so appreciate this and I appreciate YOU for sending this out. May you have a meaningful fast. Elisheva/Betty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:52 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] today.. Daily Israel Report Subscribe (free) Home News News Briefs Opinion Judaism Features Blogs Admin Radio | Live TV Jukebox Israel Pics Services RSS Advertise The Fast of the Tenth Tevet 10, 5769, 06 January 09 12:04 by by Daniel Pinner (IsraelNN.com) "And it happened in the ninth year of [Zedekiah's] reign, in the tenth month [i.e., Tevet], on the tenth of the month, that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came - he and all his army - against Jerusalem, besieged it and built a siege tower around it." (II Kings 25:1, Jeremiah 52:4) Zedekiah was the very last king of Judah, who had ascended the throne in a turbulent period of Jewish history. One hundred and twenty-two years earlier, Shalmaneser, king of Assyria, had conquered the northern kingdom of Israel; he took King Hoshea captive and sent the ten tribes into exile, scattered throughout the Assyrian Empire, where they were lost to the Jewish national body. The southern kingdom of Judea would survive for another 133 years, under constant threat of invasion and occasional incursions from Egypt and Babylon, before finally being invaded and conquered by Nebuchadnezzar. Zedekiah's father, Josiah, had reigned for thirty-one years. He had ascended the throne when he was just eight years old, and tried desperately to repair the spiritual ravages that his predecessors had caused to the nation: he renovated the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, which had not been maintained properly since King Jehoash, eight kings and over 200 years previously; he restored the Torah to Judah; he destroyed the idols, including the Asherah tree from the Holy Temple, and burned them all; he dismissed the priests of idolatry and destroyed the rooms that they had maintained within the Holy Temple; he destroyed all the idolatrous altars throughout the Land; and he restored the Pesach sacrifice, which had been neglected for centuries. His reign came to an abrupt end when Pharaoh Neco wanted to traverse through Judea on his way to fight Assyria. King Josiah would not tolerate a foreign army on Judean soil, so he confronted the pharaoh in Megiddo. In the ensuing battle, Pharaoh Neco killed King Josiah, whereupon the masses anointed Josiah's son Jehoahaz as king. Jehoahaz, however, was an evil king; and after reigning for just three months, the pharaoh captured him, exiled him, reduced Judea to a vassal state, and put Jehoaz's brother Eliakim on the throne, changing his name to Jehoiakim. Jehoiakim, also an evil king, reigned for eleven years, first as a vassal of Egypt, then of Babylon. Eventually, a Babylonian-Moabite-Ammonite alliance attacked Judea, inflicting terrible damage. Jehoiakim died, and his eighteen-year-old son Jehoiachin became king. Jehoiachin was just as evil as his father and, after he reigned for just three months, Babylon besieged Jerusalem, pillaged the treasures of the Holy Temple, exiled tens of thousands of Jews, and took King Jehoiachin into captivity in Babylon. The king of Babylon then crowned Jehoiachin's uncle, Mattaniah, as vassal-king of Judea, changing his name to Zedekiah. And then, after nine years of autonomy in the Babylonian Empire, on the tenth of Tevet, the Babylonian army began its siege on Jerusalem, the last stage before the final obliteration of Jewish independence. Just seven months later, on the 7th of Av, Nebuzaradan, the chief executioner of Babylon, would arrive in Jerusalem to burn the Holy Temple two days later - on the 9th of Av. The 9th of Av had been ordained as a day of destruction and mourning ever since the spies whom Moshe had sent to spy out the Land of Israel had returned, given their evil report, and the nation spurned the Land of Israel and cried in their lack of faith. The Talmud (Ta'anit 29a) calculates the Torah's chronology: on the 20th of Iyar we left Mount Sinai (Numbers 10:11); this was followed by a three-day journey (v.33) concluding on the 23rd of Iyar; a 30-day sojourn in Kibroth-Hata'avah (ibid. 11:20, 34) concluding on the 22nd of Sivan; and finally seven days in Hazeroth (11:35, 12:15-16) before reaching the Paran Desert (ibid. 12:16) on the 29th of Sivan. Hence, Moshe sent out the twelve spies on the 29th of Sivan (compare Targum Yonatan to Numbers 13:20). They returned forty days later on the 8th of Av and gave their evil report of the Land; and when night fell and the nation cried, it was the evening of the 9th of Av. Instead of the 9th of Av being the day that we entered the Land of Israel and brought the redemption, it became a day of tragedy. But what event foreshadowed the siege of Jerusalem beginning on the 10th of Tevet? It seems to me that the Torah gives us a hint of what the background was. 1,291 years before the First Temple was destroyed, three angels appeared to Abraham and Sarah, heralding the birth of their son Isaac the following year (Genesis 18:1-14). The Talmud and the midrashim are consistent about the chronology: the angel promised Sarah that she would bear her son Isaac exactly one year hence (18:10); the 400 years of Abraham's seed living as "strangers in a land not their own" (15:13) began with the birth of Isaac and finished with the Exodus from Egypt. Since the Exodus occurred on the 15th of Nisan, Isaac was born 400 years to the day earlier; i.e., also on the 15th of Nisan. And since the angelic prophecy to Sarah was one year to the day before Isaac was born, this episode also happened on the 15th of Nisan. This was also the day before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, sparing only Lot and his two daughters, who fled into the hills (Genesis 19:1-25). The night following the destruction, Lot's daughters, fearing that they were the only three people remaining in the world, plied their father with drink and impregnated themselves by him. They gave birth to sons - the elder bore Moab and the younger bore the ancestor of Ammon (19:30-38). Nine months after the 16th of Nisan brings us to the 10th of Tevet. Hence, Moab and Ammon, the two nations who, in alliance with Babylon, would attack Judea and thus initiate the process that would culminate in Judea being captured and the Holy Temple destroyed, were born on the 10th of Tevet - the day that Babylon began the siege on Jerusalem. Thus, Jewish independence would be extinguished in the Land of Israel and, for the next 70 years, the Land was to lie desolate under Babylonian occupation. At the end of that time, the Persian King Cyrus (Koresh) defeated Babylon, inherited the Babylonian Empire - including Israel - and proclaimed the right of any Jew who wanted to return to Israel and to rebuild the Holy Temple. In the days of the Second Temple, we did not fast on the fast days of mourning (the 17th of Tammuz, the 9th of Av, Tzom Gedaliyah on the 3rd of Tishrei, and the 10th of Tevet): one does not mourn over the destruction on the Temple while the Temple is standing. The Rambam, however, states that the Jews did fast on the 9th of Av in the Second Temple period (commentary to the Mishnah, Rosh HaShanah 1:3; "Laws of Fasts" 5:5). It seems puzzling that we should fast in mourning for the Temple when the Temple is standing. The Maggid Mishneh (commentary on the Mishneh Torah by Rabbi Vidal of Tolosa, 14th-century Spain) explains: "According to our rabbi [the Rambam], the custom [whether or not to fast] depends upon the circumstances, as the Talmud [Rosh HaShanah 18b] makes clear. In a time of peace - which means when the Holy Temple is built - the fast days are days of rejoicing and gladness; in times of persecution, they are fast days; and in times when there is neither peace nor persecution, every Jew who desires to fast can fast. However, fasting is not obligatory, with the exception of the fast of the 9th of Av, because there were so many disasters on this day. But now, everyone fasts on all these days and all are obligatory upon every Jew until the Holy Temple will be rebuilt." (Maggid Mishneh on "Laws of Fasts" 5:5) Evidently, the Second Temple, being only temporary, could annul three of the four fasts of mourning. But the 9th of Av is such a disastrous day that a temporary Temple cannot override it. But the third and final Holy Temple will convert even the 9th of Av into the day of joy and festivity that it was originally intended to be, a day of redemption: "Thus said HaShem, Lord of Legions: The fast of the fourth [month, i.e., Tammuz] and the fast of the fifth [month, i.e., Av] and the fast of the seventh [month, i.e., Tishrei], and the fast of the tenth [month, i.e., Tevet] will turn into rejoicing and gladness and festivities for the House of Judah. So love truth and peace." (Zechariah 8:19) www.IsraelNationalNews.com ? Copyright IsraelNationalNews.com Subscribe to the free Daily Israel Report - sub.israelnn.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090106/35cc080d/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 6 18:05:25 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:05:25 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Learn to want what God wants - The Jewish people can help fix the world In-Reply-To: <4963C5B7.2020605@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <010720090005.9387.4963F1C40007B0A7000024AB22230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Joe, can you please elaborate on "unite as a returning penitent"? -- John C. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Joe Indomenico : -------------- Shalom Chaverim, I stumbled across this amazing website. I have posted one of the articles. For those who are not Jewish and have a yearning to unite as a returning penitent , this article says it all. There are many other good articles to read if you are inclined to this understanding. http://www.jewishfuture.com/jf_want_what_god_wants.shtml Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/9f0aca14/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jan 6 20:02:58 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:02:58 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Learn to want what God wants - The Jewish people can help fix the world] Message-ID: <49640D52.8050200@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/4780e438/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Learn to want what God wants - The Jewish people can help fix the world Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:05:25 +0000 Size: 6123 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/4780e438/attachment.eml From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 6 20:19:15 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 02:19:15 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Learn to want what God wants - The Jewish peoplecan help fix the world] In-Reply-To: <49640D52.8050200@westnet.com.au> References: <49640D52.8050200@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1862159725-1231294802-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1313334220-@bxe260.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Shalom Joe, The reason I asked was that, while I fully agreed with principles espoused in the article you sent, it seemed to me to strongly lean in the direction that only Judah was joined in the community at Sinai when it was in fact all of Israel. So I wanted to see if you were advocating that all of the returnees must convert to Judaism. I'll read it again. Thanks. Brachot. John C. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Joe Indomenico Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:02:58 To: Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Learn to want what God wants - The Jewish people can help fix the world] _______________________________________________ From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jan 6 21:51:47 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:51:47 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Learn to want what God wants - The Jewish peoplecan help fix the world]] Message-ID: <496426D3.9020505@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/28b20d46/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Learn to want what God wants - The Jewish peoplecan help fix the world] Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 02:19:15 +0000 Size: 4090 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/28b20d46/attachment.eml From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 6 22:04:00 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 04:04:00 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Learn to want what God wants - TheJewish peoplecan help fix the world]] In-Reply-To: <496426D3.9020505@westnet.com.au> References: <496426D3.9020505@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <318571125-1231301058-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-434635847-@bxe260.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Wow man! I really wasn't blaming or accusing anyone of anything Joe. I just wasn't sure I correctly understood what I read so I asked. I tend to be rather blunt sometimes, sorry if I was too terse. Sounds to me like we're on the same page. I'll read the article again. Have fun at the beach, it's almost bedtime for me. Laila Tov v'Shalom brother. John C. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Joe Indomenico Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:51:47 To: Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Learn to want what God wants - The Jewish peoplecan help fix the world]] _______________________________________________ From bkgivin at charter.net Wed Jan 7 12:29:40 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:29:40 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] To encourage you to pray... Message-ID: Friends, I was very encouraged when I received this email response with the name of an Israeli soldier to pray for. I truly believe that this can be yet another uniting force to bring us closer to HaShem and to one another as we back Israel on a very personal basis by praying for one of her brave soldiers. But this does not have to be limited to our United Israel group, we can send out the message to family and friends and other organizations that we know of who love Israel. And according to the rabbis, we can never underestimate the value of one person, for although on one hand, each of us says, "I am but dust and ashes (Gen. 18:27), but on the other hand we can each say, "For my sake the world was created." There is a whole teaching on this which I will not go into here, but I would like to make reference to a quote from a book that I recently read that has meant so much to me in my everyday life, and I would highly recommend it. This says it so succinctly and so beautifully and so much better than I could ever say it "Each person has a unique role to play, a particular set of gifts and abilities to make a difference in the world. No one else can make your contribution but you. You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person." From God's To Do List 103 Ways to be an Angel and Do God-s Work on Earth, by Dr. Ron Wolfon I know that many of you are already praying for our soldiers and some have personal friends or family members who are acquainted with the IDF and you are already praying for one soldier or a group of soldiers, and this is wonderful; but for those who do not yet have a personal connection, I believe this is an opportunity for us to join our hearts and our lips in prayer as we stand behind our beloved Israel. I think this seemingly small mitzvah on the part of each of us can make a difference. All it takes to begin is to send an email request to: maortlmo at gmail.com B'ahavat Y'israel, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: Office of Rabbi Kook, Rehovot [mailto:maortlmo at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:32 AM To: Betty Givin Subject: Re: Request for name of Israeli soldier to pray for The name of your partner to daven and learn for is MORDECHEI BEN EDNA Also please don't forget to have in mind the kidnapped soldier, Gilad ben Aviva. It is most impressive to receive thousands of responses manifesting the tremendous love of Klall Yisrael for Torah and Eretz Yizroel. In the Zechus of Yisroel Arevim Ze Loze May Hashem bring Moshiyach very soon. Yanki Schneck Assistant of Chief Rabbi of Rehovot On 1/6/09, Betty Givin wrote: Please send me the name of an Israeli soldier to pray for. It is the least that I can do. Thank you, Elisheva -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/7e643fba/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 14:22:16 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:22:16 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Follow me to the Land of Israel In-Reply-To: <006c01c9702e$f386e400$0400a8c0@marvin> References: <006c01c9702e$f386e400$0400a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <855590370901071222q5b27784ej4af702e49af4a4e5@mail.gmail.com> Hi Marvin, Yaakov Katz, nicknamed "Ketzaleh" ('little Katz') is a true legend in Israel among the (so-called) 'Settler Movement.' The National Union is going to be running in the upcoming elections, and they are the BEST and most loyal to the Land of Israel people that there are. THESE are the guys that I plan on voting for in the future (in Israel, of course). Certainly the two part interview on Arutz-7 can give you all the details about him, and the National Union's platform. THIS is the kind of party that Ephramites should be supporting and meeting with. THEY understand the Tanach, and the importance of Eretz Yisrael. They would be able to comprehend WHO today's Ephramites are, and what their prophesied roles are. That is the main objection that I have with those Ephramites who are dealing with the secular Likud party. If the Tanach isn't your 'guidebook,' - you're just another politician...and politicians are all about 'power.' If I had a 'voting bloc' (in addition to my daughters, LOL) behind me - it's Katz and the National Union I'd be supporting. I'd be campaigning for them today if I was in Israel..... May HaShem bring Israelis (Ephramites too!) to their senses to support the National Union. * Hanoch * On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 1:45 PM, mhyde wrote: > *Hey gang,* * * *Interested article in Arutz Sheva. If you like it there > is a part two. Hanoch, do you know any detail you can fill us in on about > this man and his Party. It I remember correctly his last name tells us he > is of the priestly clan.* * * *Shalom,* *Marvin* * * * * *Ketzaleh: > "Follow Me to the Land of Israel" - Part 1* > > * > by Chagit Rotenberg* > > ** > > (IsraelNN.com) "We will bring smiles back to the faces of those who cherish > the Land of Israel," says National Union party leader Yaakov "Ketzaleh" Katz > in an exclusive interview with B'Sheva Magazine. > *Translated by Rochel Sylvetsky* > > - The new leader of the National Union Party is proud of the fact that > the list of candidates he heads unites four Zionist parties. > - He predicts at least ten Knesset seats for the National Union, which > he defines as the only party that presents a clear, unequivocal message of > faithfulness to the Land of Israel as well as concentrating on welfare and > educational needs. > - All his friends from his old Shaked Commando Unit have promised to > vote for him. He calls on other non-observant voters who love their country > to join them. > > Just a few minutes spent at the modest Tekumah faction office near the > entrance to Jerusalem are enough to dispel the breakaway image ascribed to > them for leaving the recently-formed Jewish Home party. "Unity" is a more > apt description of what is happening at the renewed National Union Party. > Representatives of the four parties that make up the candidate list are > shaking hands, slapping one another on the back and smiling. Dr. Arye Eldad > and Baruch Merzel have just finished a meeting, Uri Ariel is gathering young > and older party activists for afternoon prayers, "Moledet" and "Tekumah" > faction representatives are busy discussing division of budgets and > responsibilities. > > National Union Party Leader Yaakov "Ketzaleh" Katz > > Israel news photo: Sasson Tiram > > Their motivation is tangible, electrifying?and contagious. Overseeing it > all is the new leader of the party, the charismatic Yaakov Katz, > affectionately known as "Ketzaleh," who until now headed the Beit El Yeshiva > institutions and the Arutz Sheva broadcast network. Also on his resume, > Ketzaleh was a Shaked Commando unit officer who lost part of his leg in the > 1973 Yom Kippur War, senior advisor to Housing Minister Ariel Sharon during > the period when Sharon promoted extensive building in Judea and Samaria, > composer of Chassidic songs, founder of the town of Beit El and father of > seven. Those who know Ketzaleh are not surprised to see how naturally he > puts his considerable rhetorical skills, energies and proven abilities into > political leadership. > > Ketzaleh considers leading the battle to preserve Israel's territorial > integrity and build up the Land to be the most important issue on his > agenda, one he feels has been neglected by all other parties. > > During our interview, however, he also discussed coping with the Hamas in > Gaza, allocations for religious educational institutions, raising child > allowances and finding ways to define the High Court's jurisdiction. > > First and foremost, Ketzaleh emphasized, that his leadership stems from > belief in the wisdom of Torah Sages. He describes the path he took from the > Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva to the Yeshiva in Beit El, under the guidance of Rabbi > Tzvi Yehuda Kook's close student, Rabbi Zalman Melamed. Ketzaleh talks of > his deep relationship with former Sephardic Chief Rabbi of the State of > Israel Mordecai Eliyahu, Hevron Chief Rabbi Dov Lior and noted scholar Rabbi > Chaim Shteiner. The party he leads has accepted Rabbis as its guides, a > policy that Ketzaleh believes is the only way to succeed. > > > > *Calls To Head The List From All Directions* > > *B'Sheva: *What led to your agreeing to head the National Union party? > *Ketzaleh: *"The decision was the result of pressure from Rabbinic > figures, foremost among them Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, through his son Rabbi > Shmuel Eliyahu. When I visited Rabbi Eliyahu, he quoted the words of the > angel to Gideon in the book of Judges: 'Go forward with the strength you > have and you will save the People of Israel.' His words accompany my every > step. In addition, there is my mentor Rabbi Zalman Melamed, to whom I have > been close for many years. Rabbi Dov Lior, Rabbi Yaakov Yosef (son of Shas > party mentor Rabbi Ovadia Yosef) as well as non-observant public figures > such as Dr. Arye Eldad and others also turned to me, feeling that the Land > of Israel issue had been put aside in the failed attempt to unite the > parties that were to form the 'Jewish Home.' > > "I am not a typical politician. In my work over the years, I had to be well > aware of political affairs, but did not take active part in them. I was a > close advisor of Arik [Ariel] Sharon during his good years, even serving as > his personal advisor on settlement when he was Minister of Housing > [1990-1992]. Way before that, Arik's ranch was my "home away from home. > > "I have always been closely involved with politics and public service in > various ways. I established the Arutz Sheva communications network, which > touches on politics without being political, deals in depth with Torah > issues and real accomplishments, political, military and general affairs, > but never held political office and never aspired to. It was important to me > to effect change and being a politician is not the only way to do this. > However, all the political parties who promote the Land of Israel issue were > willing to unite if I assumed leadership and convinced me to listen to the > SOS signals sent my way. > > "The Land of Israel is up for humiliating barter in the hands of > politicians who do not hold the Land dear to their hearts. I decided to > accept this challenge in order to represent the lovers of the Land of Israel > who see it being given away bit by bit. I am glad I did so, now that one can > see everyone working together here so unselfishly for this idealistic cause. > Our goal is to reach a position of strength with at least ten mandates. > After all, in the last elections the National Union party and the National > Religious Party together got nine seats. We hope to reap votes from the > Likud after the Likud party moved [Land of Israel loyalist] Moshe Feiglin > down to 36th place, and from other parties whose leaders fear promoting > Israel's territorial integrity such as Avigdor Lieberman and others. I > believe that under my leadership, supported entirely by our Torah Sages, we > will succeed in rallying an uplifted, united, idealistic constituency. > > *The Land Of Israel Comes First** > B'Sheva: *In your first press conference, you spoke about being an party > for the Land of Israel. What about the Torah and the People of Israel? > *Ketzaleh: *"For years, the Israeli media has intentionally made talking > about the Land of Israel off limits. If you mention love of the Land of > Israel, you are simply not "in." That is why we are consciously emphasizing > it and putting it at the head of our platform, but we will certainly > concentrate on education and Torah. Everyone, including the secular > candidates on our list, knows that the Book of Books is the basis of our > being here, everyone who has seen [number two candidate] Uri Ariel and I in > action knows that we put great efforts into promoting education, welfare and > ethics, but the Shas and Agudah religious parties do too. > > We are the only ones fighting for the Land of Israel, while the others have > already tacitly given it up. Shas talks about Jerusalem because they have > already sold out on the regions of Judea and Samaria. The Agudah party was a > partner to the 2005 Disengagement catastrophe that brought the rockets upon > us in the South. The public knows that we can be relied on here, that we > will never tell them the day after the elections that 'what can be seen from > here cannot be seen from there' (Ariel Sharon's excuse for actions that were > the diametric opposite of his campaign promises). > > *B'Sheva: *How will you advance the cause of the Land of Israel in the > Knesset? > *Ketzaleh: *When I was Ariel Sharon's assistant in the Housing Ministry, > we built three billion dollars worth of settlements, including sixty > thousand housing units in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the Golan Heights. > We helped all the institutions that were connected to Torah, including the > hareidi sector. This is our field of expertise, and we intend to continue it > in the upcoming Knesset. > > *B'Sheva: *The public perceives the National Religious Party as the party > that cares about funds for religious education. Will the National Union > party under your leadership also do so? > *Ketzaleh: *The National Union Knesset members in the previous Knesset, > Tzvi Hendel and Uri Ariel, were among those who worked successfully to > obtain budgets for religious education. Not that MK's Orlev and Slomiansky > didn't work hard, but not more than Uri and Tzvi did, or more than Chanan > Porat and Rabbi Yitzchak Levy during their periods in the Knesset. Heads of > educational institutions remember me from the days in the Housing Ministry > and know our talents on those issues. I believe that the Land of Israel will > blossom and that education will blossom with her." > > *The Shaked Commando Unit Soldiers Join ** > B'Sheva: *If Netanyahu forms the next coalition, he may do it with Kadima > and Labor. Are you afraid he will leave you outside? > *Ketzaleh: *"That could happen. I don't completely rely on Bibi > [Netanyahu], but in order to form a coalition, one doesn't have to be the > largest party, only the one that can form a government with the largest > bloc. The more votes the National Union gets, the more it will be impossible > for the head of the government to function without us. That is why we must > be a central factor in this bloc, one that cannot be ignored. I did not > enter this campaign for 5-6 mandates, but because I felt that if we could > win 9 seats in the past election, we can get to more than ten now." > > *B'Sheva: *You have only 40 days to campaign. Isn't that too little time > for electoral achievement? > *Ketzaleh: *"Sometimes a short span of time is all for the good. People > have succeeded in effecting revolutions in a short time when there was a > mass awakening. I receive hundreds of telephone calls at all hours from > religious and non-religious people who say: Ketzaleh, you have returned the > smile to our faces. You have given us hope, we feel we have someone to turn > to. > > "My friends from my commando unit called me. Brig.-Gen. Patzi (Amatsia > Chen), a non observant kibbutznik from Huldah, called to say: I don't > usually vote, but when I saw that Ketzaleh's at the head, I will vote for > him. All the Shaked Commandoes will vote Ketzaleh. You cannot imagine the > joy in the settlements, the calls we've received, all because we have > stopped the doubletalk and raised the flag of the Land of Israel, and we are > not afraid of the media and will not bend to their whims. > > There is a great awakening and thousands will come out to help us and work > together, but first we must believe that we can win and bring a new message > to our people. The organization, seriousness and self sacrifice of our group > that works day and night is self evident, for otherwise we might lose the > Land of Israel, G-d forbid." > > *For the continuation of this article, click here for Part Two > * > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/5bfc2b5d/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Wed Jan 7 16:16:56 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:16:56 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Follow me to the Land of Israel In-Reply-To: <855590370901071222q5b27784ej4af702e49af4a4e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <006c01c9702e$f386e400$0400a8c0@marvin> <855590370901071222q5b27784ej4af702e49af4a4e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003701c97115$a82d4200$0400a8c0@marvin> Thanks Hanoch, The articles sound like he was the man to support. . You are so correct. " If the Tanach isn't your 'guidebook,' - you're just another politician...and politicians are all about 'power.' Years ago in the 90's we thought Bibi might be the one but it looks like that fizzled out. What we need to do now is get absentee ballots for all Ephramites, one way or the other we can get this show started. Thanks again, Marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 3:22 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Follow me to the Land of Israel Hi Marvin, Yaakov Katz, nicknamed "Ketzaleh" ('little Katz') is a true legend in Israel among the (so-called) 'Settler Movement.' The National Union is going to be running in the upcoming elections, and they are the BEST and most loyal to the Land of Israel people that there are. THESE are the guys that I plan on voting for in the future (in Israel, of course). Certainly the two part interview on Arutz-7 can give you all the details about him, and the National Union's platform. THIS is the kind of party that Ephramites should be supporting and meeting with. THEY understand the Tanach, and the importance of Eretz Yisrael. They would be able to comprehend WHO today's Ephramites are, and what their prophesied roles are. That is the main objection that I have with those Ephramites who are dealing with the secular Likud party. If the Tanach isn't your 'guidebook,' - you're just another politician...and politicians are all about 'power.' If I had a 'voting bloc' (in addition to my daughters, LOL) behind me - it's Katz and the National Union I'd be supporting. I'd be campaigning for them today if I was in Israel..... May HaShem bring Israelis (Ephramites too!) to their senses to support the National Union. Hanoch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/d9c985e3/attachment.html From stephen at 777jesusislord.com Wed Jan 7 16:49:02 2009 From: stephen at 777jesusislord.com (stephen) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:49:02 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Re: Dialogue Digest, Vol 9, Issue 22 References: <496529E0.DF948.7D2D@pop.directnic.com> Message-ID: <1CD98B91865D4FE199A79C5599D52A6B@SEWVAC011> "Each person has a unique role to play, a particular set of gifts and abilities to make a difference in the world. No one else can make your contribution but you. You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person." Dr. Ron Wolfon I had to pass this one on to various friends --- very timely word. Stephen Tikkun Tzedek ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:17 PM Subject: Dialogue Digest, Vol 9, Issue 22 > Send Dialogue mailing list submissions to > dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/mailman/listinfo/dialogue > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > dialogue-request at rootsoffaith.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > dialogue-owner at rootsoffaith.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Dialogue digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. To encourage you to pray... (Betty Givin) > 2. Re: Follow me to the Land of Israel (Hanoch Young) > 3. RE: Follow me to the Land of Israel (mhyde) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:29:40 -0600 > From: "Betty Givin" > Subject: [Dialogue] To encourage you to pray... > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Friends, I was very encouraged when I received this email response with > the > name of an Israeli soldier to pray for. I truly believe that this can be > yet another uniting force to bring us closer to HaShem and to one another > as > we back Israel on a very personal basis by praying for one of her brave > soldiers. But this does not have to be limited to our United Israel > group, > we can send out the message to family and friends and other organizations > that we know of who love Israel. > > > > And according to the rabbis, we can never underestimate the value of one > person, for although on one hand, each of us says, "I am but dust and > ashes > (Gen. 18:27), but on the other hand we can each say, "For my sake the > world > was created." There is a whole teaching on this which I will not go into > here, but I would like to make reference to a quote from a book that I > recently read that has meant so much to me in my everyday life, and I > would > highly recommend it. This says it so succinctly and so beautifully and so > much better than I could ever say it > > > > "Each person has a unique role to play, a particular set of gifts and > abilities to make a difference in the world. No one else can make your > contribution but you. You may be only one person in the world, but you > may > also be the world to one person." > > > > From God's To Do List 103 Ways to be an Angel and Do God-s Work on Earth, > by Dr. Ron Wolfon > > > > I know that many of you are already praying for our soldiers and some have > personal friends or family members who are acquainted with the IDF and > you > are already praying for one soldier or a group of soldiers, and this is > wonderful; but for those who do not yet have a personal connection, I > believe this is an opportunity for us to join our hearts and our lips in > prayer as we stand behind our beloved Israel. I think this seemingly > small > mitzvah on the part of each of us can make a difference. All it takes to > begin is to send an email request to: maortlmo at gmail.com > > > > B'ahavat Y'israel, > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > > _____ > > From: Office of Rabbi Kook, Rehovot [mailto:maortlmo at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:32 AM > To: Betty Givin > Subject: Re: Request for name of Israeli soldier to pray for > > > > The name of your partner to daven and learn for is > > > > MORDECHEI BEN EDNA > > > > Also please don't forget to have in mind the kidnapped soldier, Gilad > ben Aviva. > > It is most impressive to receive thousands of responses manifesting the > tremendous love of Klall Yisrael for Torah and Eretz Yizroel. > > In the Zechus of Yisroel Arevim Ze Loze May Hashem bring Moshiyach very > soon. > > Yanki Schneck > Assistant of Chief Rabbi of Rehovot > > > > On 1/6/09, Betty Givin wrote: > > Please send me the name of an Israeli soldier to pray for. It is the > least > that I can do. > > Thank you, > > Elisheva > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/mailman/private/dialogue/attachments/20090107/7e643fba/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:22:16 -0500 > From: "Hanoch Young" > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Follow me to the Land of Israel > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Message-ID: > <855590370901071222q5b27784ej4af702e49af4a4e5 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Hi Marvin, > > Yaakov Katz, nicknamed "Ketzaleh" ('little Katz') is a true legend in > Israel among the (so-called) 'Settler Movement.' The National Union is > going to be running in the upcoming elections, and they are the BEST and > most loyal to the Land of Israel people that there are. THESE are the > guys > that I plan on voting for in the future (in Israel, of course). > > Certainly the two part interview on Arutz-7 can give you all the > details about him, and the National Union's platform. THIS is the kind of > party that Ephramites should be supporting and meeting with. THEY > understand the Tanach, and the importance of Eretz Yisrael. They would be > able to comprehend WHO today's Ephramites are, and what their prophesied > roles are. That is the main objection that I have with those Ephramites > who > are dealing with the secular Likud party. If the Tanach isn't your > 'guidebook,' - you're just another politician...and politicians are all > about 'power.' > > If I had a 'voting bloc' (in addition to my daughters, LOL) behind me > - it's Katz and the National Union I'd be supporting. I'd be campaigning > for them today if I was in Israel..... > > May HaShem bring Israelis (Ephramites too!) to their senses to support > the National Union. > > * Hanoch > * > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 1:45 PM, mhyde wrote: > >> *Hey gang,* * * *Interested article in Arutz Sheva. If you like it there >> is a part two. Hanoch, do you know any detail you can fill us in on >> about >> this man and his Party. It I remember correctly his last name tells us >> he >> is of the priestly clan.* * * *Shalom,* *Marvin* * * * * *Ketzaleh: >> "Follow Me to the Land of Israel" - Part 1* >> >> * >> by Chagit Rotenberg* >> >> ** >> >> (IsraelNN.com) "We will bring smiles back to the faces of those who >> cherish >> the Land of Israel," says National Union party leader Yaakov "Ketzaleh" >> Katz >> in an exclusive interview with B'Sheva Magazine. >> *Translated by Rochel Sylvetsky* >> >> - The new leader of the National Union Party is proud of the fact that >> the list of candidates he heads unites four Zionist parties. >> - He predicts at least ten Knesset seats for the National Union, which >> he defines as the only party that presents a clear, unequivocal >> message of >> faithfulness to the Land of Israel as well as concentrating on welfare >> and >> educational needs. >> - All his friends from his old Shaked Commando Unit have promised to >> vote for him. He calls on other non-observant voters who love their >> country >> to join them. >> >> Just a few minutes spent at the modest Tekumah faction office near the >> entrance to Jerusalem are enough to dispel the breakaway image ascribed >> to >> them for leaving the recently-formed Jewish Home party. "Unity" is a more >> apt description of what is happening at the renewed National Union Party. >> Representatives of the four parties that make up the candidate list are >> shaking hands, slapping one another on the back and smiling. Dr. Arye >> Eldad >> and Baruch Merzel have just finished a meeting, Uri Ariel is gathering >> young >> and older party activists for afternoon prayers, "Moledet" and "Tekumah" >> faction representatives are busy discussing division of budgets and >> responsibilities. >> >> National Union Party Leader Yaakov "Ketzaleh" Katz >> >> Israel news photo: Sasson Tiram >> >> Their motivation is tangible, electrifying-and contagious. Overseeing it >> all is the new leader of the party, the charismatic Yaakov Katz, >> affectionately known as "Ketzaleh," who until now headed the Beit El >> Yeshiva >> institutions and the Arutz Sheva broadcast network. Also on his resume, >> Ketzaleh was a Shaked Commando unit officer who lost part of his leg in >> the >> 1973 Yom Kippur War, senior advisor to Housing Minister Ariel Sharon >> during >> the period when Sharon promoted extensive building in Judea and Samaria, >> composer of Chassidic songs, founder of the town of Beit El and father of >> seven. Those who know Ketzaleh are not surprised to see how naturally he >> puts his considerable rhetorical skills, energies and proven abilities >> into >> political leadership. >> >> Ketzaleh considers leading the battle to preserve Israel's territorial >> integrity and build up the Land to be the most important issue on his >> agenda, one he feels has been neglected by all other parties. >> >> During our interview, however, he also discussed coping with the Hamas in >> Gaza, allocations for religious educational institutions, raising child >> allowances and finding ways to define the High Court's jurisdiction. >> >> First and foremost, Ketzaleh emphasized, that his leadership stems from >> belief in the wisdom of Torah Sages. He describes the path he took from >> the >> Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva to the Yeshiva in Beit El, under the guidance of >> Rabbi >> Tzvi Yehuda Kook's close student, Rabbi Zalman Melamed. Ketzaleh talks of >> his deep relationship with former Sephardic Chief Rabbi of the State of >> Israel Mordecai Eliyahu, Hevron Chief Rabbi Dov Lior and noted scholar >> Rabbi >> Chaim Shteiner. The party he leads has accepted Rabbis as its guides, a >> policy that Ketzaleh believes is the only way to succeed. >> >> >> >> *Calls To Head The List From All Directions* >> >> *B'Sheva: *What led to your agreeing to head the National Union party? >> *Ketzaleh: *"The decision was the result of pressure from Rabbinic >> figures, foremost among them Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, through his son >> Rabbi >> Shmuel Eliyahu. When I visited Rabbi Eliyahu, he quoted the words of the >> angel to Gideon in the book of Judges: 'Go forward with the strength you >> have and you will save the People of Israel.' His words accompany my >> every >> step. In addition, there is my mentor Rabbi Zalman Melamed, to whom I >> have >> been close for many years. Rabbi Dov Lior, Rabbi Yaakov Yosef (son of >> Shas >> party mentor Rabbi Ovadia Yosef) as well as non-observant public figures >> such as Dr. Arye Eldad and others also turned to me, feeling that the >> Land >> of Israel issue had been put aside in the failed attempt to unite the >> parties that were to form the 'Jewish Home.' >> >> "I am not a typical politician. In my work over the years, I had to be >> well >> aware of political affairs, but did not take active part in them. I was a >> close advisor of Arik [Ariel] Sharon during his good years, even serving >> as >> his personal advisor on settlement when he was Minister of Housing >> [1990-1992]. Way before that, Arik's ranch was my "home away from home. >> >> "I have always been closely involved with politics and public service in >> various ways. I established the Arutz Sheva communications network, which >> touches on politics without being political, deals in depth with Torah >> issues and real accomplishments, political, military and general affairs, >> but never held political office and never aspired to. It was important to >> me >> to effect change and being a politician is not the only way to do this. >> However, all the political parties who promote the Land of Israel issue >> were >> willing to unite if I assumed leadership and convinced me to listen to >> the >> SOS signals sent my way. >> >> "The Land of Israel is up for humiliating barter in the hands of >> politicians who do not hold the Land dear to their hearts. I decided to >> accept this challenge in order to represent the lovers of the Land of >> Israel >> who see it being given away bit by bit. I am glad I did so, now that one >> can >> see everyone working together here so unselfishly for this idealistic >> cause. >> Our goal is to reach a position of strength with at least ten mandates. >> After all, in the last elections the National Union party and the >> National >> Religious Party together got nine seats. We hope to reap votes from the >> Likud after the Likud party moved [Land of Israel loyalist] Moshe Feiglin >> down to 36th place, and from other parties whose leaders fear promoting >> Israel's territorial integrity such as Avigdor Lieberman and others. I >> believe that under my leadership, supported entirely by our Torah Sages, >> we >> will succeed in rallying an uplifted, united, idealistic constituency. >> >> *The Land Of Israel Comes First** >> B'Sheva: *In your first press conference, you spoke about being an party >> for the Land of Israel. What about the Torah and the People of Israel? >> *Ketzaleh: *"For years, the Israeli media has intentionally made talking >> about the Land of Israel off limits. If you mention love of the Land of >> Israel, you are simply not "in." That is why we are consciously >> emphasizing >> it and putting it at the head of our platform, but we will certainly >> concentrate on education and Torah. Everyone, including the secular >> candidates on our list, knows that the Book of Books is the basis of our >> being here, everyone who has seen [number two candidate] Uri Ariel and I >> in >> action knows that we put great efforts into promoting education, welfare >> and >> ethics, but the Shas and Agudah religious parties do too. >> >> We are the only ones fighting for the Land of Israel, while the others >> have >> already tacitly given it up. Shas talks about Jerusalem because they have >> already sold out on the regions of Judea and Samaria. The Agudah party >> was a >> partner to the 2005 Disengagement catastrophe that brought the rockets >> upon >> us in the South. The public knows that we can be relied on here, that we >> will never tell them the day after the elections that 'what can be seen >> from >> here cannot be seen from there' (Ariel Sharon's excuse for actions that >> were >> the diametric opposite of his campaign promises). >> >> *B'Sheva: *How will you advance the cause of the Land of Israel in the >> Knesset? >> *Ketzaleh: *When I was Ariel Sharon's assistant in the Housing Ministry, >> we built three billion dollars worth of settlements, including sixty >> thousand housing units in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the Golan >> Heights. >> We helped all the institutions that were connected to Torah, including >> the >> hareidi sector. This is our field of expertise, and we intend to continue >> it >> in the upcoming Knesset. >> >> *B'Sheva: *The public perceives the National Religious Party as the party >> that cares about funds for religious education. Will the National Union >> party under your leadership also do so? >> *Ketzaleh: *The National Union Knesset members in the previous Knesset, >> Tzvi Hendel and Uri Ariel, were among those who worked successfully to >> obtain budgets for religious education. Not that MK's Orlev and >> Slomiansky >> didn't work hard, but not more than Uri and Tzvi did, or more than Chanan >> Porat and Rabbi Yitzchak Levy during their periods in the Knesset. Heads >> of >> educational institutions remember me from the days in the Housing >> Ministry >> and know our talents on those issues. I believe that the Land of Israel >> will >> blossom and that education will blossom with her." >> >> *The Shaked Commando Unit Soldiers Join ** >> B'Sheva: *If Netanyahu forms the next coalition, he may do it with Kadima >> and Labor. Are you afraid he will leave you outside? >> *Ketzaleh: *"That could happen. I don't completely rely on Bibi >> [Netanyahu], but in order to form a coalition, one doesn't have to be the >> largest party, only the one that can form a government with the largest >> bloc. The more votes the National Union gets, the more it will be >> impossible >> for the head of the government to function without us. That is why we >> must >> be a central factor in this bloc, one that cannot be ignored. I did not >> enter this campaign for 5-6 mandates, but because I felt that if we could >> win 9 seats in the past election, we can get to more than ten now." >> >> *B'Sheva: *You have only 40 days to campaign. Isn't that too little time >> for electoral achievement? >> *Ketzaleh: *"Sometimes a short span of time is all for the good. People >> have succeeded in effecting revolutions in a short time when there was a >> mass awakening. I receive hundreds of telephone calls at all hours from >> religious and non-religious people who say: Ketzaleh, you have returned >> the >> smile to our faces. You have given us hope, we feel we have someone to >> turn >> to. >> >> "My friends from my commando unit called me. Brig.-Gen. Patzi (Amatsia >> Chen), a non observant kibbutznik from Huldah, called to say: I don't >> usually vote, but when I saw that Ketzaleh's at the head, I will vote for >> him. All the Shaked Commandoes will vote Ketzaleh. You cannot imagine the >> joy in the settlements, the calls we've received, all because we have >> stopped the doubletalk and raised the flag of the Land of Israel, and we >> are >> not afraid of the media and will not bend to their whims. >> >> There is a great awakening and thousands will come out to help us and >> work >> together, but first we must believe that we can win and bring a new >> message >> to our people. The organization, seriousness and self sacrifice of our >> group >> that works day and night is self evident, for otherwise we might lose the >> Land of Israel, G-d forbid." >> >> *For the continuation of this article, click here for Part >> Two >> * >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/mailman/private/dialogue/attachments/20090107/5bfc2b5d/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:16:56 -0500 > From: "mhyde" > Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Follow me to the Land of Israel > To: > Message-ID: <003701c97115$a82d4200$0400a8c0 at marvin> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanks Hanoch, > > > > The articles sound like he was the man to support. . You are so correct. > " If the Tanach isn't your 'guidebook,' - you're just another > politician...and politicians are all about 'power.' Years ago in the > 90's > we thought Bibi might be the one but it looks like that fizzled out. > What > we need to do now is get absentee ballots for all Ephramites, one way or > the > other we can get this show started. > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Marvin > > > > > > _____ > > From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 3:22 PM > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Follow me to the Land of Israel > > > > Hi Marvin, > > > > Yaakov Katz, nicknamed "Ketzaleh" ('little Katz') is a true legend in > Israel among the (so-called) 'Settler Movement.' The National Union is > going to be running in the upcoming elections, and they are the BEST and > most loyal to the Land of Israel people that there are. THESE are the > guys > that I plan on voting for in the future (in Israel, of course). > > > > Certainly the two part interview on Arutz-7 can give you all the > details about him, and the National Union's platform. THIS is the kind of > party that Ephramites should be supporting and meeting with. THEY > understand the Tanach, and the importance of Eretz Yisrael. They would be > able to comprehend WHO today's Ephramites are, and what their prophesied > roles are. That is the main objection that I have with those Ephramites > who > are dealing with the secular Likud party. If the Tanach isn't your > 'guidebook,' - you're just another politician...and politicians are all > about 'power.' > > > > If I had a 'voting bloc' (in addition to my daughters, LOL) behind me > - it's Katz and the National Union I'd be supporting. I'd be campaigning > for them today if I was in Israel..... > > > > May HaShem bring Israelis (Ephramites too!) to their senses to support > the National Union. > > > > Hanoch > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/mailman/private/dialogue/attachments/20090107/d9c985e3/attachment.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > End of Dialogue Digest, Vol 9, Issue 22 > *************************************** > From bkgivin at charter.net Wed Jan 7 18:41:52 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 18:41:52 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Thank-you, Stephen In-Reply-To: <1CD98B91865D4FE199A79C5599D52A6B@SEWVAC011> References: <496529E0.DF948.7D2D@pop.directnic.com> <1CD98B91865D4FE199A79C5599D52A6B@SEWVAC011> Message-ID: <4515C25567094284B71A096FC5D7C8E4@bettylaptop> Glad you liked this quote, Stephen. It really hit home with me. If you have extra reading time, I would definitely recommend Dr. Wolfson's book, 'God's To Do List.' It is very timely a practical read. Shalom, Elisheva/Betty -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of stephen Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:49 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Re: Dialogue Digest, Vol 9, Issue 22 "Each person has a unique role to play, a particular set of gifts and abilities to make a difference in the world. No one else can make your contribution but you. You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person." Dr. Ron Wolfon I had to pass this one on to various friends --- very timely word. Stephen _________ From bkgivin at charter.net Wed Jan 7 20:01:43 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:01:43 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES In-Reply-To: <496426D3.9020505@westnet.com.au> References: <496426D3.9020505@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Shalom Joe, Very well stated and explained. And even though I did choose to convert to Judaism many years ago, I would never subscribe to the notion that we should all convert, .nor would I ever attempt to persuade or influence others to follow in my footsteps. For me, it was a decision of the heart, and I felt compelled by HaShem that this was the path I needed to take. Regarding your statement, There is not one teaching that I know of where the rabbis are not earnestly waiting for the lost tribes to return. This is prayed for in all the synagogues around the world, I agree in principle. In fact, years ago, prior to our conversion, Roger and I were sitting in an orthodox Jewish home among some friends, and one of them a ?sabre,? or Israeli born young Jewish man, said to us excitedly?? You know, don?t you, that out siddur (prayer book) speaks of you and people like you?? He then turned to the 10th Benediction in the Weekly Amidah section of my Artscroll siddur that I had with me and read to us out loud. When he came to the ?gather our exiles? portion, he pointed it out and said, ?See, that?s you. You are fulfilling this prayer today! ?Sound the great shofar for our freedom, raise the banner to gather our exiles and speedily gather us together from the four corners of the earth to our Land. Blessed are You, HASHEM, who gathers in the dispersed of His people Israel? As you may well know, this section is actually entitled INGATHERING OF EXILES, or KIBBUTZ G?LUYOT in Hebrew. Needless to say, I was taken back and began to look for and find many other references to the gathering in of the exiles in the siddur. I put little post it notes all thru my siddur and they are still there today! I did not notice until later that this prayer is the 10TH Benediction! I said earlier, that I agree in principle with your statement about the rabbis earnestly waiting for the lost tribes to return and the fact that it is being prayed for in all the synagogues around the world. I felt like I needed to clarify the ?in principle,? because in my own experience, the rabbis are waiting for the dispersed to return, but they may not identify them as those of the ?lost tribes.? When I mentioned the ?lost tribes? to my rabbi shortly after that discussion, he simply wrote it off, with a comment stating they were lost and never would return?and when I said that I thought I was a part of the returning exiles of the lost tribes, he just smiled as if to try to pacify me. That said, they may be praying this prayer on a daily basis, but not all the rabbis and certainly not all the people sitting in the shuls and congregations, believe they are praying for the ?lost tribes? to return when they pray this benediction and the many other prayers along the same line. I know there is a difference of opinion amongst the rabbis as to whether the tribes will return. My current rabbi seems to be of the opinion that when the Northern Kingdom was carried away into captivity, that that was the end of them and he equates the mention of ?Israel? in the prophets as those primarily of Judah because he says they are the only ones who came back. I want to talk with him more, as he may not be aware of this huge phenomena in the non-Jewish world of those being drawn to the One G-d of Israel and to His Torah. It would be interesting to hear his explanation and to ask him whether he would include them under the umbrella of ?Khal Israel.? Thanks for your thoughtful post, Joe, and thanks to you, John for bringing up your questions. B?Ahavat Yehuda v?Yisrael, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Joe Indomenico Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:52 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Learn to want what God wants - TheJewish peoplecan help fix the world]] Shalom John, I would never in my wildest dreams ever subscribe to the notion that people should convert to Judaism. In fact even the rabbis state that there is a place in the world to come "Olam h'Ba " for righteous gentiles. Judaism is not a religion of forced conversion as are Christianity and Islam. The rabbis will try to dissuade most who try to convert. They have the concept of Benai Noach. If you read the article closely we will see the wording "Klal Yisrael" which means the unity of Israel . Unfortunately many people get confused when they hear "the Jewish people" or the Jews. The rabbis are correct in saying this because up until recently (the last 40 years) the Jews were the only ones who kept the Torah lifestyle. There is not one teaching that I know of where the rabbis are not earnestly waiting for the lost tribes to return. This is prayed for in all the synagogues around the world. The teaching was that the term "Jew " was applied to all the congregation. There are "Jews "that do not know which actual tribe they belong to. Only when Mashiach comes he will determine the tribal ancestry. This is a separate teaching that I will post soon. In Orthodox Jewish synagogues today you have 3 divisions that all are classified under : Kohen : the high priestly line of Aaron. Levi : the remaining priests. Israel. : everyone else. There are some who know which tribe they belong to but still call themselves Jews. Even the Kohens call themselves "Jews" They do not use the name Israel. The majority do not know their tribal ancestry. You cannot blame the rabbis for this because the Jew was the face of Israel to the world since the exile of the lost tribes. Some of those who did return still took on the name Jew. When the rabbis talk about the Har Sinai experience they will always use the words - Am Yisrael or Benai Yisrael or Klal Yisrael. Did you know that when the modern state of Yisrael was declared , the founding Zionists including David ben Gurion seriously considered naming the fledgling state Judah. I think that HaShem had other ideas :-) Redemption cannot ever occur without the whole House of Yisrael being united. The lost ones must be recovered, united and then and only then will the Geula happen. For this reason alone redemption did not materialize 2000 years ago. Half a house does not qualify for redemption. The mission was started then and will culminate and be consummated at the end of days. Hosea Chapter 6 ? ????? ??????????? ???-??????, ???? ???? ????? ??????????????; ????, ???????????????. 1 'Come, and let us return unto the LORD; for He hath torn, and He will heal us, He hath smitten, and He will bind us up. ? ??????????, ??????????; ????????, ?????????????, ?????????, ????????? ????????. 2 After two days will He revive us, on the third day He will raise us up, that we may live in His presence. After 2 days (2000 years) HaShem is reviving us. May we merit to be KLAL YISRAEL. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE ( back to the beach) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/96bae4a2/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Wed Jan 7 20:48:46 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:48:46 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES In-Reply-To: References: <496426D3.9020505@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <98C37B2A-4BD6-4AD7-9DBA-32183344A710@earthlink.net> On the matter of the varied rabbinic views regarding the return of those of the northern ten tribes there is an excellent study by our friend and colleague Dennis Jones up on the United Israel web site. I highly recommend it. As some of you know Dennis is a convert to Judaism, but an avid "believer" in the "lost tribes" returning in our times. He also has inspired such confidence in his congregation over many years of service that he is serving right now as synagogue president... Here is the link for the study: http://unitedisrael.org/Historical-Research/Will-the-Lost-Tribes-Return_Analysis-of-Lost-Tribes-in-Rabbinic-Literature.html Best, James On Jan 7, 2009, at 9:01 PM, Betty Givin wrote: > Shalom Joe, > > Very well stated and explained. And even though I did choose to > convert to Judaism many years ago, I would never subscribe to the > notion that we should all convert, .nor would I ever attempt to > persuade or influence others to follow in my footsteps. For me, it > was a decision of the heart, and I felt compelled by HaShem that > this was the path I needed to take. > > Regarding your statement, There is not one teaching that I know of > where the rabbis are not earnestly waiting for the lost tribes to > return. This is prayed for in all the synagogues around the world, I > agree in principle. In fact, years ago, prior to our conversion, > Roger and I were sitting in an orthodox Jewish home among some > friends, and one of them a ?sabre,? or Israeli born young Jewish > man, said to us excitedly?? You know, don?t you, that out siddur > (prayer book) speaks of you and people like you?? He then turned to > the 10th Benediction in the Weekly Amidah section of my Artscroll > siddur that I had with me and read to us out loud. When he came to > the ?gather our exiles? portion, he pointed it out and said, ?See, > that?s you. You are fulfilling this prayer today! > > ?Sound the great shofar for our freedom, raise the banner to gather > our exiles and speedily gather us together from the four corners of > the earth to our Land. Blessed are You, HASHEM, who gathers in the > dispersed of His people Israel? > > As you may well know, this section is actually entitled INGATHERING > OF EXILES, or KIBBUTZ G?LUYOT in Hebrew. Needless to say, I was > taken back and began to look for and find many other references to > the gathering in of the exiles in the siddur. I put little post it > notes all thru my siddur and they are still there today! I did not > notice until later that this prayer is the 10TH Benediction! > > I said earlier, that I agree in principle with your statement about > the rabbis earnestly waiting for the lost tribes to return and the > fact that it is being prayed for in all the synagogues around the > world. I felt like I needed to clarify the ?in principle,? because > in my own experience, the rabbis are waiting for the dispersed to > return, but they may not identify them as those of the ?lost > tribes.? When I mentioned the ?lost tribes? to my rabbi shortly > after that discussion, he simply wrote it off, with a comment > stating they were lost and never would return?and when I said that I > thought I was a part of the returning exiles of the lost tribes, he > just smiled as if to try to pacify me. That said, they may be > praying this prayer on a daily basis, but not all the rabbis and > certainly not all the people sitting in the shuls and congregations, > believe they are praying for the ?lost tribes? to return when they > pray this benediction and the many other prayers along the same > line. I know there is a difference of opinion amongst the rabbis as > to whether the tribes will return. > > My current rabbi seems to be of the opinion that when the Northern > Kingdom was carried away into captivity, that that was the end of > them and he equates the mention of ?Israel? in the prophets as those > primarily of Judah because he says they are the only ones who came > back. I want to talk with him more, as he may not be aware of this > huge phenomena in the non-Jewish world of those being drawn to the > One G-d of Israel and to His Torah. It would be interesting to hear > his explanation and to ask him whether he would include them under > the umbrella of ?Khal Israel.? > > Thanks for your thoughtful post, Joe, and thanks to you, John for > bringing up your questions. > > B?Ahavat Yehuda v?Yisrael, > > Elisheva/Betty > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/a2e79180/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 20:49:34 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 18:49:34 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Israel's War Against Arab Terror & Bringing the Redemption Message-ID: <855590370901071849h60676740m6a0c665145d22395@mail.gmail.com> [image: http://trailer.web-view.net/Links/0XE67E4999E68D94373E6BF17CF9BB9E73AA9A490D768EABAE7499BC2ACFC3E1E6087A7572D4E0CF0E59E4765F87E2EB156EF72D755BF24E605515544A71326F50.htm] An address to our surfers. Please click here Israel's War Against Arab Terror By Rabbi David Samson *Question: *In response to Israel's war against Arab terror, we received several e-mails inquiring about Judaism's perspective on war. "The prayer for shalom (peace) is the climax of a Jew's daily prayers, so why should Jews go to war?" "How do the cruelty and destruction of war fit in with the notion of an all-compassionate and loving G-d?" "Why from Biblical times up till today has the history of the Jewish People been crimsoned with war?" *Answer: *In his classic treatise, OROT, Rabbi Avraham Yitzhak HaCohen Kook explains that war is one of the ways that G-d advances the Redemption of Israel. [1] While Rabbi Kook wrote his essays on war during the First World War, his profound Torah insights pertain all the more to our situation today, when the Israel Defense Forces are fighting to defend the Jewish People in the Promised Land. The image of war as hell has been imbedded on humankind's psyche. War is seen as the manifestation of Satan, as the outpourings of man's darker passions on a global scale, empty of all idealism and goodness. If war could be abandoned, the world would be a better place. While abhorring senseless slaughter, Rabbi Kook explains how G-d brings about the Redemption of Israel even through wars. Certainly, the Jewish people are in favor of world peace as the final goal of mankind. We do not consider the Spartans, Vikings, or Mongols the epitome of human civilization. Nevertheless, it is important to understand that the ideal world we long for can come through the upheavals of war. Just as there are times of light and times of darkness, there are times of peace and times of war.[2] In the midst of the horrors of World War One, Rabbi Kook wrote: "When there is a great war in the world, the power of the Mashiach (Messiah) awakens."[1] Like all moral people, Rabbi Kook condemned the horror, waste, and depravity of war, yet his connection to Torah led him to understand something much deeper. When looked at through the perspective of Torah, war also possesses a positive value. War ushers in Mashiach. Even through the destruction of war, the light of Mashiach appears. The power of Mashiach is released when a great war grips the world. In fact, the greater the magnitude and force of the war, the greater the revelation of Mashiach that follows. Behind this comprehension is a higher world vision. The Talmud in tractate Sanhedrin describes the terrible times which will accompany the advent of the Mashiach.[3] Rabbi Yochanan teaches that if one sees a generation with great tribulations, one can expect the Mashiach to come.[4] He sees ahead to the light at the end of the tunnel. This is the same encompassing vision which enables Rabbi Kook to see the coming of Mashiach in a world darkened by war. The Mashiach is not only the ideal Jewish King, but a process which evolves over time. The Talmud tells us that "There are two thousand years of Mashiach."[5] The Jerusalem Talmud emphasizes that Israel's Redemption unfolds, "Little by little."[6] Rabbi Kook's vision is rooted in the teachings of our Sages. The Gemara states that "War is also the beginning of Redemption."[7] There, the Talmud says the Mashiach comes after a period of struggle and war. The Midrash teaches that if you see the empires of the world waging war against each other, you should expect the "footsteps of Mashiach."[8] The Rambam tells us that one of Mashiach's premier tasks is to fight the wars of Hashem (G-d).[9] In our daily prayers, we proclaim that "Hashem is the Master of wars."[10] The prophesied Redemption of the Jewish people is a historical development sure to come true. But how does the process of Redemption unfold? Rabbi Kook tells us that when there are great international upheavals like wars, in accordance with the magnitude of the conflict, the Redemption of Israel progresses toward its destined perfection. This is precisely what occurred in Rabbi Kook's time. The Balfour Declaration, which recognized the right of the Jewish people to Eretz (the Land of) Yisrael, was a direct result of the First World War. As an outcome of the war, the British were left in charge of Israel to facilitate the birth of a Jewish State. G-d overthrew the Turks, who had scorn for the Bible, and replaced them with Englishmen who supported the Jewish people's Biblical claim to the Land. The result of World War II marked an additional step forward in Israel's developmental process ? the foundation of Medinat Yisrael (the State of Israel.) These modern hallmarks of Jewish history, and their connection to the wars which preceded them, are obvious discernible facts. While textbooks and erudite historians may expound a plethora of social, political, and economic theories in explaining these World Wars, the discerning Jewish eye can see a more exalted plan. The World Wars in our time were the instruments G-d used to reestablish the nation of Israel in its Promised Land. Once we understand that the Redemption of Israel can come about through war, we can still philosophically wonder why G-d doesn't bring Redemption about through peaceful means?[11] The answer lies in the understanding that G-d directs the world in a natural, historical fashion, achieving His aims through the vehicles of nations and kings. "He dethrones kings and raises kings up."[12] To return the scattered Jewish people to Israel, G-d had to rearrange the world map. Thus, when Rabbi Kook looks at the First World War through the glasses of Jewish world history, he knows that the war's outcome will be beneficial to Israel. He knows that the war has come to facilitate the political redemption of the Jewish people and to lead us back to sovereignty over our Land. Rabbi Kook continues: "The time of the songbird has come, the weeding of tyrants. The evil ones are obliterated from the world, the world becomes perfected, and the voice of the turtledove is heard in our Land."[1] The World Wars of the previous century led to the destruction of tyrannies and dictatorships and established democracies in their place. Obviously, the annihilation of Bismarks, Hitlers, Mussolinis, Hirohitos, (and Arafats) brings a cleansing to the world. Justice, freedom, and morality find a new environment in which to evolve toward a universal ideal. The great light of Israel can now begin to shine. At first with its physical resurrection, and then with its spiritual building. Each new war brings another stage of Redemption. From World War One and the Balfour Declaration, we advance to World War Two and the establishment of the Jewish State. The miraculous Six-Day War brings us to the reunification of Jerusalem and the recapture of Judea and Samaria, Aza and the Golan. Once again, we made a giant leap forward through war. What does this insight mean for today? G-d willing, our war against Arab terror will uproot all of the tyrants and purveyors of murder, and find us once again in possession of all of our Biblical lands. Footnotes: 1. See "Lights on OROT," Eretz Yisrael, commentary by Rabbi David Samson and Tzvi Fishman, TEY Publications. 2. Kohelet, 3:8. 3. Sanhedrin 97A-98B. Sotah 49B. 4. Sanhedrin 98B. 5. Sanhedrin 97A and B. 6. Jerusalem Talmud, Berachot 1:1. 7. Megilla 17B. 8. Bereshit Rabbah, 42:4. 9. Rambam, Laws of Kings and Their Wars, 11:4. 10. Morning Blessing "Yotzer Ohr" recited before the Shma. 11. Certainly G-d can bring about the Redemption in a peaceful fashion. This would occur if the Jewish people would return to G-d in repentance. If the Jews refuse to do Tshuva (repentance) on their own accord, then the Redemption comes with great suffering, G-d forbid. 12. Daniel, 2:21. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/5aeb45d8/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 20:56:14 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 18:56:14 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Israel: Fight like your forefathers Message-ID: <855590370901071856v7fea1de0ib5adf34ed3707cab@mail.gmail.com> *Israel: Fight like your forefathers* Ellis Washington - Jan 07, 2009 World Net Daily *The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. * ~ Sir Edmund Burke *God willing, Hamas will win. * ~ Nizar Rayan (a Hamas leader the day before his death) As I look at tiny Israel finally getting the courage to start defending herself decisively against the evil and intractable Hamas, the *de facto*leadership of the Palestinians living in Gaza, I had a troublesome sense of unease for several reasons: 1. As detestable as watching sausage being made, war is something that has always been very difficult for me to view in real time because of the carnage, the slaughter of innocent women and children, but even worse, the geopolitical posturing by corrupt politicians. 2. I am not convinced that Israel has a prudent, efficient war plan replete with post-war policy contingencies already in place. 3. Now that Hamas has the technological capabilities to launch rockets to Israel's nuclear plant, can Israel any longer afford the political self-delusion to tolerate what conservative intellectual Michael Savage called "the enemy within"? If just one of those stray Hamas rockets hits Israel's nuclear plant in Dimona (pop. 186,000), the fallout in that city and throughout Israel could rival Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan (1945), or at least be comparable to the nuclear disaster at the Chernobyl facility in the Soviet Union (1986). As a Christian, I am inextricably joined at the hip with my Israeli brothers, but like many lovers of Israel, I am dismayed as I witness them possess such a magnificent army, yet because of reliance on secular humanist presuppositions, instead of exacting a decisive blow to Hamas, their politicians are mired in liberalism, socialism and egalitarianism. For now, Israel seems content to allow hundreds of billions of dollars worth of military equipment to remain idle, encamped on the border of Gaza. This is an untenable situation for me. As wicked and utterly evil as I find Hamas to be, I do not blame them exclusively for this war in Gaza. Why? Hamas is what they are. They are a fanatical Muslim terrorist group like Fatah and the old Palestine Liberation Organization of Yasser Arafat, which Hamas seeks to utterly usurp. Hamas was not voted into power in a democratic election by the Palestinian people, but in January 2006 took the election by force, killing Fatah candidates and their supporters and forcing Mahmoud Abbas, the leader of Fatah, to flee to the West Bank. Because this treasonous act was tolerated by the Palestinian people of Gaza without revolt, in my mind, there are no innocent Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank. Remember the wise words of Lady Margaret Thatcher, the former prime minister of England, who repeatedly warned, "Never appease an aggressor," for to do so only emboldens them to your destruction. Israel, if she is to survive, must strike out on her own and fight like her forefathers in the Torah gallantly fought wars ? men and women like Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Gideon, Samson, Jepthath, Deborah, Jael, Mordecai, Esther and David. Israel must destroy the enemy, drive them out of the occupied territories and annex all of Israel. That means Hamas in Gaza, Fatah in the West Bank and the Palestinians in Jerusalem including the Temple Mount. Yes, the world will hate you, Israel, but that's OK because the Arabs and the gentile nations have hated you from antiquity and with increasing venality since you became a nation reborn on May 14, 1948. Israel, you have nothing to lose if you fight fearlessly, comprehensively and gallantly like boy David did against Goliath. (Recall that David gathered five stones, one for Goliath and his four brothers; David left nothing to chance.) Israel, you have always defied the odds because the God Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is on your side. Israel, like many Americans, Christians and Jews throughout the world, I believe that you are God's chosen people, that one day the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt on the Temple Mount without any other Muslim edifice there to defile the true worship of God. Indeed, multitudes of Christians and Jews throughout the world long to see that day. Hamas leader Nizar Rayan, arguably the most zealous proponent of homicide attacks against Israel, has thankfully made his transition to hell along with his four wives and 10 of his 11 children (a 12th child he sent to die as a homicide bomber in October 2001, killing two Israelis). It didn't have to be this way for Sheik Rayan and his family, because Israel follows an irrational, self-imposed set of rules of war that no other nation on earth would pursue and had warned this murderous Hamas leader that the bombs were coming ? and he ignored the warnings. I don't worry about Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, the Taliban, al-Qaida, the 44 Muslim nations of the world or the psychopaths in the U.N. Why? Because these evil people and hateful, jealous nations were predicted by the Jewish prophets from antiquity. Sir Edmund Burke paraphrased the Torah in this way: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." And herein is my reason to fear. I see very few "good men" as leaders of the civilized nations of the world that possess the courage, vision and moral authority to be a bulwark against the ever-growing Muslim menace. What I also fear is Israel's irrational love affair with liberalism, socialism and egalitarianism. I fear Israel's litany of foolish and delusional policy choices that make Israeli leaders impotent to act decisively in the face of a sworn fanatical enemy like Hamas and Fatah. These terrorist groups' Muslim financiers, like Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Iran Jordan, Saudi Arabia and many others, have for decades surreptitiously provided the Palestinians millions of dollars ostensibly for food and humanitarian aid, but Hamas and Fatah have instead used this money for mortars, weapons and homicide (not suicide) bombers to kill Jews. Hamas isn't' the problem, but a symptom of Israel's more insidious, intractable problem. Liberalism and the Alignment-Labour-Kadima Party in Israeli politics is the problem. Socialist liberal leaders of Israel like Rabin, Peres, Barak, Sharon, Olmert, Livni, even conservative Netanyahu (Hebron), in order to curry favor from America and the U.N., for decades treacherously gave away their holy birthright for the promise of peace by their sworn enemies, the Muslims, and yet Israel has no peace. Israel, I implore you to ignore the political madness of the Bush/Condi Rice/Obama "Two-State Solution," the genocidal policy of land-for-peace of the United Nations and the Arab nation states, as well as the anti-Semitic vitriol from all of the other corrupt gentile nations of the world that are jealous of you, that hate you and don't think that the Torah is the word of God, nor that the Jews are God chosen people. Be assured that the Arabs and the Muslim and gentile nations will lose if they are foolish enough to war against you ? for they are warring against God, whom the Torah repeatedly calls, "the Lord of Hosts." Israel, listen only to the rabbis and Israeli leaders whose religious and political policies comply with the words of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, for that is where your redemption will be found. Shalom, Israel! 3965 W. 83rd. Street #292 Shawnee Mission, KS 66208 I Phone: 913.648.0022 I Fax: 913.648.7997 This site is designed for standards compliant browsers. If your browser is not standards compliant, download one here . Website copyright (c) 2006. Unity Coalition for Israel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/57d2e763/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 21:18:12 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 19:18:12 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Insight, analysis and what it all means Message-ID: <855590370901071918v2bb936ffo19c4834c5dcad9be@mail.gmail.com> NOTE: Rav Lazer Brody was an officer of an elite unit of the Israeli Army, years before he became a Rabbi. He knows what he's talking about....Make sure to read his recommendations.... * Hanoch* ** *[image: http://www.feedblitz.com/]* The Iranian Gamble ** *Hamas wanted a truce long ago. Seven or Eight of its top ten villains no longer see the light of day. Yet, they're still fighting and succeeding to fire more rockets at Southern Israel. Who's egging them on? Ideology? Hatred? Both true, but only a partial answer. The #1 interested party of continued strife in the Middle East is Iran, for two big reasons:* *1. Iran is going broke with crude oil at $40/barrel, when they need a minimum price of $90/barrel. Historically, oil prices skyrocket whenever there's war over here. So the deal is that we get Grad missiles on our children's kindergartens so that Achmedinejad can balance his budget. Now, dear friends - how would you feel if Achmedinejad and the Hamas had you in the shelters?* *2. While the whole world is focused on us, Achmedinejad and Iran are in the final stages of assembling their first nuclear weapon. Not long after the coming ceasefire in Gaza, we'll have to face up to Iranian Nukes and their Lebanese proxy.* *3. The Iranians are the most cunning strategists in the world. They know that Obama, for the sake of peace, quiet, and "objectivity," will sell Israel down the river. Israel has no choice but to defend itself; Iran's prime pupils - the Hizbolla and Hamas - both fight behind human shields of populated areas, especially mosques, schools, and hospitals. Israel had to neutralize missile and mortar fire from the UNWRA school, or else subject its soldiers and citizens to more danger. Obama's condemnations of us - the first stage of the sellout - are only 2 weeks away.* *Iran's gamble is working. Achmedinejad is definitely on a high roll laughing all the way to the bank while the **lower than low Hamas* * does his dirty work. The dedicated IDF can't win this battle, because it's a spiritual struggle against arch-evil. Only Teshuva can. What can you do? Say Shema Yisrael with your children at night. Learn about Emuna. Be a little bit better than yesterday.* *Hamas wanted a truce long ago. Seven or Eight of its top ten villains no longer see the light of day. Yet, they're still fighting and succeeding to fire more rockets at Southern Israel. Who's egging them on? Ideology? Hatred? Both true, but only a partial answer. The #1 interested party of continued strife in the Middle East is Iran, for two big reasons:* *1. Iran is going broke with crude oil at $40/barrel, when they need a minimum price of $90/barrel. Historically, oil prices skyrocket whenever there's war over here. So the deal is that we get Grad missiles on our children's kindergartens so that Achmedinejad can balance his budget. Now, dear friends - how would you feel if Achmedinejad and the Hamas had you in the shelters?* *2. While the whole world is focused on us, Achmedinejad and Iran are in the final stages of assembling their first nuclear weapon. Not long after the coming ceasefire in Gaza, we'll have to face up to Iranian Nukes and their Lebanese proxy.* *3. The Iranians are the most cunning strategists in the world. They know that Obama, for the sake of peace, quiet, and "objectivity," will sell Israel down the river. Israel has no choice but to defend itself; Iran's prime pupils - the Hizbolla and Hamas - both fight behind human shields of populated areas, especially mosques, schools, and hospitals. Israel had to neutralize missile and mortar fire from the UNWRA school, or else subject its soldiers and citizens to more danger. Obama's condemnations of us - the first stage of the sellout - are only 2 weeks away.* *Iran's gamble is working. Achmedinejad is definitely on a high roll laughing all the way to the bank while the **lower than low Hamas* * does his dirty work. The dedicated IDF can't win this battle, because it's a spiritual struggle against arch-evil. Only Teshuva can. What can you do? Say Shema Yisrael with your children at night. Learn about Emuna. Be a little bit better than yesterday.* *? **Email to a friend** ? **Article Search** ? **Related* * ? **[image: http://www.talkr.com/app/text_to_audio.app?feed_url=http://lazerbrody.typepad.com/lazer_beams/atom.xml&permalink=http://lazerbrody.typepad.com/lazer_beams/2009/01/the-iranian-gamble.html&src=5] * * ?* ** Emuna Update ** * * *A big Beam blessing to Cookie from Alabama for posting the Emuna Update* *? **Email to a friend** ? **Article Search** ? **Related* * ? **[image: http://www.talkr.com/app/text_to_audio.app?feed_url=http://lazerbrody.typepad.com/lazer_beams/atom.xml&permalink=http://lazerbrody.typepad.com/lazer_beams/2009/01/emuna-update.html&src=5] * * ?* ** Emuna News Analysis: Stalemate ** *Israel has now entered the threshhold of Big-Decision time. The IDF can't remain static for long on the outskirts of very densely-populated urban areas such as Gaza City, the home turf of the Hamas, which loves to fight while hiding among the civilian population. All the cities of Gaza contain entire networks of underground tunnels, which really make combat sticky - you get fired at from one window, and by the time you storm the house, the terrorists have already crossed the street in an underground tunnel and are firing at you from another window. Knowing the size and scope of the enemy is virtually impossible, and the booby-trapped streets and buildings make Gehinnom look like Sesame Street compared to Gaza. The previous six-month ceasefire gave the Hamas plenty of time to prepare.* *Big-Decision Time is now upon the Israeli Government: If morale weakens and it pulls out now from Gaza after the IDF has lost four of its finest soldiers to **friendly fire* *, Hamas is the big winner and hero of the entire Third World. And if Israel presses forward to engage the enemy inside the big cities, it will undoubtedly pay a big price in loss of life without necessarily attaining its political and security goals. * *So what should the IDF do? Maintain the siege and become sitting ducks to mortar and antitank fire, or penetrate the cities and make the big gamble of human loss?* *Hashem has put Israel in a stalemate. We haven't understood Hashem's gentle message by withholding the rains particularly in this post-Sabbatical year. We haven't understood Hashem's louder message by pulling the economic rug out from under our feet. Now - in spite of the IDF's gains - Hamas continues the flow of missiles raining on the south of Israel. The army is faced with a most difficult decision as to its next move and is yet long away from putting an end to the rocket and missile fire against the south of Israel. Hashem has put Israel in a situation where there's only one way out: Teshuva.* *Let's not wait for Olmert, Livni, or Barak to make teshuva. Let's do it ourselves. Make sure that every child you know learns how to say "Shema Yisrael." Hashem wants to bring us Moshiach, but we have to desire it as well. A mitzva that we all need to improve on is "Ahavat Yisrael," loving our fellow. Let's start with loving the soldiers that are putting their lives on the line for us. * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/68a0e10f/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jan 7 21:33:40 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:33:40 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES] Message-ID: <49657414.5020301@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/801221fe/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Betty Givin" Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:01:43 -0600 Size: 29278 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/801221fe/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jan 7 21:37:58 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:37:58 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES] Message-ID: <49657516.9080401@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/3b3dea76/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: James Tabor Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:48:46 -0500 Size: 22218 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/3b3dea76/attachment.eml From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 22:22:01 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:22:01 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] A way to make a difference Message-ID: <855590370901072022o55f0a093oda8ebe1cd5ff13d0@mail.gmail.com> *The Jewish Leadership Movement *11 Tevet, 5769 (Jan. 7) *Click Here to Plant New Fruit Trees in Israel TODAY! * *"The seventh year shall be a complete rest for the land, a Sabbath for G-d; your field you shall not sow and your vineyard you shall not prune." *(Leviticus 25:4) As you know, last year was a "*Shmittah*" (Sabbatical) year in Israel and, as the Torah states clearly in the verse quoted above, no planting of any kind was done in the fields. No new fruit trees, vines or even grass! Now that *Shmittah* is over, the farmers have been working round-the-clock to prepare their fields for the first planting of the year which will take place next month on Tu B'Shevat (February 9th). Tens of thousands of new fruit trees will be planted all across Israel and we will join together with the farmers to make that happen! In *Yitzhar*, a community that overlooks the biblical city of Shechem (resting place of Joseph), a field is being prepared to plant 3,000 new vines. This community already has several vineyards which proudly employ 12 local Jews who make a livelihood from the fruit of their labors (literally). In *Elon Moreh*, 1,000 new olive trees will be planted very soon. These olive trees will produce organic olive oil in the coming years that, once again, will provide a livelihood for many Jews in this holy city. It is interesting to note that the olive trees will be planted on the biblical "Har Gerizim" -- the Mountain of Blessing -- that is spoken about in many places in the Torah. (See Joshua 8:33-35) In addition, we want to help the following pioneering communities with their major plantings as follows: *Givat Ronen* (near Har Bracha) will be planting 2,500 vines and 400 olive trees. *Ma'ale Chever* in the Hebron Hills will plant 1,400 vines and 500 olive trees. *Wadi Bet El* (opposite Kochav Yaakov) will plant 500 olive trees. *Aday Ad* on the eastern side of Shilo will be planting 100 fig trees, 100 pomegranate trees and 450 olive trees. Planting fruit trees in Israel is ALWAYS important but this year, it is even MORE important since no planting AT ALL was done in the last 16 months! These farmers are ready to work but they need our help in covering the major expense which is incurred at the beginning of the planting. Bulldozers are brought in to level the ground, a fully computerized drip irrigation system is put in place, saplings are purchased and fencing is built to keep away unwanted animals. Please remember that ALL our plantings are 100% fruit trees which are taken care of VERY CAREFULLY (and quite expensively!) *YOU CAN TAKE PART IN THIS ONCE-IN-A-SEVEN-YEAR-MITZVAH!* You can help redeem the land, plant new fruit trees and provide a livelihood for many Jews. But you have to act fast. Here is how it works: You actually become a partner with the farmer by purchasing a tree. Simply click here and fill out the simple order form. The more trees you plant, the less each tree costs! *Please CLICK HEREto plant a tree in a pioneering community in Israel. * *Attention synagogues, families and communities: * Plant 100 trees and receive your own private vineyard or olive grove! A beautiful wooden sign will be placed at the entrance to the vineyard or olive grove with your name and special dedication. This was done recently by Eluzer Kowalsky of Brooklyn, NY who planted a 100 tree vineyard in memory of his father, Rabbi Shalom Kowalsky zt"l, long time Rabbi of the Young Israel of Hillcrest. Please pass this email to as many people as possible. Our goal is to help our brothers and sisters plant 5,000 new fruit trees before Tu B'Shvat. Manhigut Yehudit is getting calls every day from many communities across Israel who need assistance and we would love to help them all! For more information, please call Shmuel Sackett at (516) 295-3222 or email: shmuel at manhigut.org Take part in this exciting mitzvah today! A beautiful, personalized certificate will be mailed to all people who plant trees. CLICK HEREto plant your trees. *Click Now to Take Part in this Important Mitzvah * Manhigut Yehudit The Jewish Leadership Movement Email: office at jewishisrael.org Web: www.jewishisrael.org Tel: 02-996-1123 (Israel); 516-295-3222 (USA) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/8431cf63/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Wed Jan 7 22:36:38 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:36:38 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES] In-Reply-To: <49657414.5020301@westnet.com.au> References: <49657414.5020301@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <75E024C46C724352898EA8DC9E38B95F@bettylaptop> Thanks Joe, for the encouragement. I will definitely show this to my rabbi. I really like him as a person. He is very genuine and kind, but just seems to be on a different planet from me on this one. He takes the approach of Rabbi Akiva that the tribes will not return. Dennis' article is excellent. Perhaps I will show him a portion of that as well. I know that you will enjoy it thoroughly. Yes, I love the sabres too and I know just what you mean. Here in the galut, some of the memory banks just need reviving, and I have a feeling that is what we of "Joseph" are supposed to be about.helping with the re-awakening! Dennis Jones is busy at the task in his synagogue, and as James said, has gained their trust. Thanks again, Joe. You always have words of encouragement and wisdom to offer. I appreciate you. Don't work too hard at the beach! Shalom, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Joe Indomenico Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:34 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES] Shalom Elisheva, I am sure you are all cold in the States. Here it is sweltering. Hence the trips to the beach and the swimming pool. Thank you for passing this information on. I was a bit surprised to hear your personal experience on this matter. All the rabbis that I have come across have always stated that there has always been an anticipation for the lost tribes to return. In fact we discussed this last Shabbat with Dror and Eli as the Haftarah of Parashat "Vayigash" was Ezekiel 37 v15-28. I would like to read to you from the commentary of the Stones Edition "Chumash" Art Scroll Series page 1144 - A Sidrah that tells of the reunification of Jacob's sons is followed by a Haftarah that prophecies the eventual unification of the twelve tribes of Israel. The prophet Ezekiel , like Jeremiah, was one of the main prophets of the Destruction, and he actually joined his exiled brethren in Babylonia. The destruction of the Temple took place 140 years after the exile of the ten tribes, so that the prophecy of this Haftarah was a source of great comfort to the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, for if even their long-lost comrades of the Northern Kingdom were assured that they would again become part of the nation, surely the two southern tribes could be certain that G-d was not forsaking them. According to Maharal (Gur Aryeh, Genisis 45:15), the tears that accompanied the embrace of Joseph and Benjamin when Joseph revealed himself in Egypt were tears of joy, because the long - separated brothers foresaw the prophecy of Ezekiel. Joseph was the father of Ephraim, leader of the ten tribes, and Benjamin's descendants remained loyal to the Davidic dynasty of Judah ; thus their reunion in Egypt was a precursor of that foretold by Ezekiel. The Haftarah goes on to make clear what sort of unified nation the twelve tribes of the future would be. The prophecy speaks not of a mere political union, free from the wars and rivalry that marred the era of the First temple Rather , it speaks of an era under a king from the House of David, who will be a servant of G-d and who will unify the people in allegiance to the Torah. Idolatry will be gone and the Temple will stand ; the standard of life will be obedience to the laws of Torah and the result will be that the entire world will know that HASHEM is G-d. Elisheva , I feel for you. I did not realize that you have had such a tussle with your rabbi. Go and read the above to him and see his reaction. I pray that the Ruach of HaShem is your guardian. Dror and Eli including myself are with you on this one all the way. Sabres are always exited. They can feel it , touch it, breathe it and respond to it. Assimilation in Galut does funny things to the memory bank. John, I also thank you for bringing up this question. It needed to be asked. Todah Rabbah. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/c8725a74/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Wed Jan 7 22:38:40 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:38:40 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES In-Reply-To: <98C37B2A-4BD6-4AD7-9DBA-32183344A710@earthlink.net> References: <496426D3.9020505@westnet.com.au> <98C37B2A-4BD6-4AD7-9DBA-32183344A710@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <41FF0579810E4A33AA242AFCBE649C2B@bettylaptop> Thanks, James. This is very timely. I just perused Dennis' article and look forward to reading it in more detail. Way to go Dennis! B'Ahava, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of James Tabor Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:49 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES On the matter of the varied rabbinic views regarding the return of those of the northern ten tribes there is an excellent study by our friend and colleague Dennis Jones up on the United Israel web site. I highly recommend it. As some of you know Dennis is a convert to Judaism, but an avid "believer" in the "lost tribes" returning in our times. He also has inspired such confidence in his congregation over many years of service that he is serving right now as synagogue president... Here is the link for the study: http://unitedisrael.org/Historical-Research/Will-the-Lost-Tribes-Return_Anal ysis-of-Lost-Tribes-in-Rabbinic-Literature.html Best, James On Jan 7, 2009, at 9:01 PM, Betty Givin wrote: Shalom Joe, Very well stated and explained. And even though I did choose to convert to Judaism many years ago, I would never subscribe to the notion that we should all convert, .nor would I ever attempt to persuade or influence others to follow in my footsteps. For me, it was a decision of the heart, and I felt compelled by HaShem that this was the path I needed to take. Regarding your statement, There is not one teaching that I know of where the rabbis are not earnestly waiting for the lost tribes to return. This is prayed for in all the synagogues around the world, I agree in principle. In fact, years ago, prior to our conversion, Roger and I were sitting in an orthodox Jewish home among some friends, and one of them a 'sabre,' or Israeli born young Jewish man, said to us excitedly." You know, don't you, that out siddur (prayer book) speaks of you and people like you?" He then turned to the 10th Benediction in the Weekly Amidah section of my Artscroll siddur that I had with me and read to us out loud. When he came to the "gather our exiles" portion, he pointed it out and said, "See, that's you. You are fulfilling this prayer today! "Sound the great shofar for our freedom, raise the banner to gather our exiles and speedily gather us together from the four corners of the earth to our Land. Blessed are You, HASHEM, who gathers in the dispersed of His people Israel" As you may well know, this section is actually entitled INGATHERING OF EXILES, or KIBBUTZ G'LUYOT in Hebrew. Needless to say, I was taken back and began to look for and find many other references to the gathering in of the exiles in the siddur. I put little post it notes all thru my siddur and they are still there today! I did not notice until later that this prayer is the 10TH Benediction! I said earlier, that I agree in principle with your statement about the rabbis earnestly waiting for the lost tribes to return and the fact that it is being prayed for in all the synagogues around the world. I felt like I needed to clarify the 'in principle,' because in my own experience, the rabbis are waiting for the dispersed to return, but they may not identify them as those of the 'lost tribes.' When I mentioned the 'lost tribes' to my rabbi shortly after that discussion, he simply wrote it off, with a comment stating they were lost and never would return.and when I said that I thought I was a part of the returning exiles of the lost tribes, he just smiled as if to try to pacify me. That said, they may be praying this prayer on a daily basis, but not all the rabbis and certainly not all the people sitting in the shuls and congregations, believe they are praying for the "lost tribes" to return when they pray this benediction and the many other prayers along the same line. I know there is a difference of opinion amongst the rabbis as to whether the tribes will return. My current rabbi seems to be of the opinion that when the Northern Kingdom was carried away into captivity, that that was the end of them and he equates the mention of "Israel" in the prophets as those primarily of Judah because he says they are the only ones who came back. I want to talk with him more, as he may not be aware of this huge phenomena in the non-Jewish world of those being drawn to the One G-d of Israel and to His Torah. It would be interesting to hear his explanation and to ask him whether he would include them under the umbrella of "Khal Israel." Thanks for your thoughtful post, Joe, and thanks to you, John for bringing up your questions. B'Ahavat Yehuda v'Yisrael, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/eae1b6f3/attachment.html From chattertonw at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 7 22:58:22 2009 From: chattertonw at bellsouth.net (chattertonw at bellsouth.net) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:58:22 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Amos Prophesies Down Through the Ages... Message-ID: <010820090458.14354.496587EE0000E4AB0000381222230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9902019B9D0A9B9B0E080C@att.net> Amos 1:6 NRSV Thus says YHVH: For three transgressions of Gaza, and for four, I will not revoke the punishment; because they carried into exile entire communities, to hand them over to Edom. 1:7 So I will send a fire on the wall of Gaza, fire that shall devour its strongholds. 1:8 I will cut off the inhabitants from Ashdod, and the one who holds the scepter from Ashkelon; I will turn my hand against Ekron, and the remnant of the Philistines shall perish, says the Lord YHVH. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/d33be5f4/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jan 8 01:42:45 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:42:45 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Amos Prophesies Down Through the Ages...] Message-ID: <4965AE75.80409@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/4d5eab68/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: chattertonw at bellsouth.net Subject: [Dialogue] Amos Prophesies Down Through the Ages... Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:58:22 +0000 Size: 5418 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/4d5eab68/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jan 8 01:49:03 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:49:03 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Instructions from the Navi - Part 1 Message-ID: <4965AFEF.2050002@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/82df06b2/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jan 8 01:54:57 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:54:57 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Instructions from the Navi - Part 2 Message-ID: <4965B151.1050904@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/daddfa14/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 8 07:29:56 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:29:56 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES] In-Reply-To: <49657414.5020301@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <010820091329.29801.4965FFD400064BEB0000746922243322829B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Wel Joe, it seems I have a knack for stirring the pot even when I'm not intending to. Shalom man. -- John C. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Joe Indomenico : -------------- Shalom Elisheva, I am sure you are all cold in the States. Here it is sweltering. Hence the trips to the beach and the swimming pool. Thank you for passing this information on. I was a bit surprised to hear your personal experience on this matter. All the rabbis that I have come across have always stated that there has always been an anticipation for the lost tribes to return. In fact we discussed this last Shabbat with Dror and Eli as the Haftarah of Parashat "Vayigash" was Ezekiel 37 v15-28. I would like to read to you from the commentary of the Stones Edition "Chumash" Art Scroll Series page 1144 - A Sidrah that tells of the reunification of Jacob's sons is followed by a Haftarah that prophecies the eventual unification of the twelve tribes of Israel. The prophet Ezekiel , like Jeremiah, was one of the main prophets of the Destruction, and he actually joined his exiled brethren in Babylonia. The destruction of the Temple took place 140 years after the exile of the ten tribes, so that the prophecy of this Haftarah was a source of great comfort to the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, for if even their long-lost comrades of the Northern Kingdom were assured that they would again become part of the nation, surely the two southern tribes could be certain that G-d was not forsaking them. According to Maharal (Gur Aryeh, Genisis 45:15), the tears that accompanied the embrace of Joseph and Benjamin when Joseph revealed himself in Egypt were tears of joy, because the long - separated brothers foresaw the prophecy of Ezekiel. Joseph was the father of Ephraim, leader of the ten tribes, and Benjamin's descendants remained loyal to the Davidic dynasty of Judah ; thus their reunion in Egypt was a precursor of that foretold by Ezekiel. The Haftarah goes on to make clear what sort of unified nation the twelve tribes of the future would be. The prophecy speaks not of a mere political union, free from the wars and rivalry that marred the era of the First temple Rather , it speaks of an era under a king from the House of David, who will be a servant of G-d and who will unify the people in allegiance to the Torah. Idolatry will be gone and the Temple will stand ; the standard of life will be obedience to the laws of Torah and the result will be that the entire world will know that HASHEM is G-d. Elisheva , I feel for you. I did not realize that you have had such a tussle with your rabbi. Go and read the above to him and see his reaction. I pray that the Ruach of HaShem is your guardian. Dror and Eli including myself are with you on this one all the way. Sabres are always exited. They can feel it , touch it, breathe it and respond to it. Assimilation in Galut does funny things to the memory bank. John, I also thank you for bringing up this question. It needed to be asked. Todah Rabbah. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/d524e7eb/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Thu Jan 8 08:46:00 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 09:46:00 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Israel: Fight like your forefathers In-Reply-To: <855590370901071856v7fea1de0ib5adf34ed3707cab@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901071856v7fea1de0ib5adf34ed3707cab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00ba01c9719f$d4b61010$0400a8c0@marvin> Before the war in Gaza started I was attempting to make a point, in my humble opinion. The article sent by Hanoch, from the World Net Daily states very well what I along with many of you think and believe. This writer Ellis Washington, said it much better then I could ever hope to. Below his short bio., posted at the bottom of the article. Ellis Washington, currently a professor of law and political science at Savannah State University, former editor at the Michigan Law Review and law clerk at The Rutherford Institute, is a graduate of John Marshall Law School and a lecturer and freelance writer on constitutional law, legal history, political philosophy and critical race theory. He has written over a dozen law review articles and several books, including "The Inseparability of Law and Morality: The Constitution, Natural Law and the Rule of Law" (2002). See his law review article "Reply to Judge Richard Posner." Washington's latest book is "The Nuremberg Trials: Last Tragedy of the Holocaust." _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:56 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Israel: Fight like your forefathers Israel: Fight like your forefathers Ellis Washington - Jan 07, 2009 World Net Daily The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. ~ Sir Edmund Burke God willing, Hamas will win. ~ Nizar Rayan (a Hamas leader the day before his death) As I look at tiny Israel finally getting the courage to start defending herself decisively against the evil and intractable Hamas, the de facto leadership of the Palestinians living in Gaza, I had a troublesome sense of unease for several reasons: 1. As detestable as watching sausage being made, war is something that has always been very difficult for me to view in real time because of the carnage, the slaughter of innocent women and children, but even worse, the geopolitical posturing by corrupt politicians. 2. I am not convinced that Israel has a prudent, efficient war plan replete with post-war policy contingencies already in place. 3. Now that Hamas has the technological capabilities to launch rockets to Israel's nuclear plant, can Israel any longer afford the political self-delusion to tolerate what conservative intellectual Michael Savage called "the enemy within"? If just one of those stray Hamas rockets hits Israel's nuclear plant in Dimona (pop. 186,000), the fallout in that city and throughout Israel could rival Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan (1945), or at least be comparable to the nuclear disaster at the Chernobyl facility in the Soviet Union (1986). As a Christian, I am inextricably joined at the hip with my Israeli brothers, but like many lovers of Israel, I am dismayed as I witness them possess such a magnificent army, yet because of reliance on secular humanist presuppositions, instead of exacting a decisive blow to Hamas, their politicians are mired in liberalism, socialism and egalitarianism. For now, Israel seems content to allow hundreds of billions of dollars worth of military equipment to remain idle, encamped on the border of Gaza. This is an untenable situation for me. As wicked and utterly evil as I find Hamas to be, I do not blame them exclusively for this war in Gaza. Why? Hamas is what they are. They are a fanatical Muslim terrorist group like Fatah and the old Palestine Liberation Organization of Yasser Arafat, which Hamas seeks to utterly usurp. Hamas was not voted into power in a democratic election by the Palestinian people, but in January 2006 took the election by force, killing Fatah candidates and their supporters and forcing Mahmoud Abbas, the leader of Fatah, to flee to the West Bank. Because this treasonous act was tolerated by the Palestinian people of Gaza without revolt, in my mind, there are no innocent Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank. Remember the wise words of Lady Margaret Thatcher, the former prime minister of England, who repeatedly warned, "Never appease an aggressor," for to do so only emboldens them to your destruction. Israel, if she is to survive, must strike out on her own and fight like her forefathers in the Torah gallantly fought wars - men and women like Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Gideon, Samson, Jepthath, Deborah, Jael, Mordecai, Esther and David. Israel must destroy the enemy, drive them out of the occupied territories and annex all of Israel. That means Hamas in Gaza, Fatah in the West Bank and the Palestinians in Jerusalem including the Temple Mount. Yes, the world will hate you, Israel, but that's OK because the Arabs and the gentile nations have hated you from antiquity and with increasing venality since you became a nation reborn on May 14, 1948. Israel, you have nothing to lose if you fight fearlessly, comprehensively and gallantly like boy David did against Goliath. (Recall that David gathered five stones, one for Goliath and his four brothers; David left nothing to chance.) Israel, you have always defied the odds because the God Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is on your side. Israel, like many Americans, Christians and Jews throughout the world, I believe that you are God's chosen people, that one day the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt on the Temple Mount without any other Muslim edifice there to defile the true worship of God. Indeed, multitudes of Christians and Jews throughout the world long to see that day. Hamas leader Nizar Rayan, arguably the most zealous proponent of homicide attacks against Israel, has thankfully made his transition to hell along with his four wives and 10 of his 11 children (a 12th child he sent to die as a homicide bomber in October 2001, killing two Israelis). It didn't have to be this way for Sheik Rayan and his family, because Israel follows an irrational, self-imposed set of rules of war that no other nation on earth would pursue and had warned this murderous Hamas leader that the bombs were coming - and he ignored the warnings. I don't worry about Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, the Taliban, al-Qaida, the 44 Muslim nations of the world or the psychopaths in the U.N. Why? Because these evil people and hateful, jealous nations were predicted by the Jewish prophets from antiquity. Sir Edmund Burke paraphrased the Torah in this way: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." And herein is my reason to fear. I see very few "good men" as leaders of the civilized nations of the world that possess the courage, vision and moral authority to be a bulwark against the ever-growing Muslim menace. What I also fear is Israel's irrational love affair with liberalism, socialism and egalitarianism. I fear Israel's litany of foolish and delusional policy choices that make Israeli leaders impotent to act decisively in the face of a sworn fanatical enemy like Hamas and Fatah. These terrorist groups' Muslim financiers, like Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Iran Jordan, Saudi Arabia and many others, have for decades surreptitiously provided the Palestinians millions of dollars ostensibly for food and humanitarian aid, but Hamas and Fatah have instead used this money for mortars, weapons and homicide (not suicide) bombers to kill Jews. Hamas isn't' the problem, but a symptom of Israel's more insidious, intractable problem. Liberalism and the Alignment-Labour-Kadima Party in Israeli politics is the problem. Socialist liberal leaders of Israel like Rabin, Peres, Barak, Sharon, Olmert, Livni, even conservative Netanyahu (Hebron), in order to curry favor from America and the U.N., for decades treacherously gave away their holy birthright for the promise of peace by their sworn enemies, the Muslims, and yet Israel has no peace. Israel, I implore you to ignore the political madness of the Bush/Condi Rice/Obama "Two-State Solution," the genocidal policy of land-for-peace of the United Nations and the Arab nation states, as well as the anti-Semitic vitriol from all of the other corrupt gentile nations of the world that are jealous of you, that hate you and don't think that the Torah is the word of God, nor that the Jews are God chosen people. Be assured that the Arabs and the Muslim and gentile nations will lose if they are foolish enough to war against you . for they are warring against God, whom the Torah repeatedly calls, "the Lord of Hosts." Israel, listen only to the rabbis and Israeli leaders whose religious and political policies comply with the words of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, for that is where your redemption will be found. Shalom, Israel! 3965 W. 83rd. Street #292 Shawnee Mission, KS 66208 I Phone: 913.648.0022 I Fax: 913.648.7997 This site is designed for standards compliant browsers. If your browser is not standards compliant, download one here. Website copyright C 2006. Unity Coalition for Israel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/61996c64/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 10:22:31 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:22:31 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Please pray for - Message-ID: <855590370901080822k8e9e100ode2c7d636cb6076c@mail.gmail.com> *Wounded Soldiers and Civilians in Need of Prayer *January 8, 2009 Please pray for our wounded soldiers and civilians. There are 40 soldiers being treated in several hospitals. This list below is incomplete. Please send us any more names that should be included here, mother's names where missing, corrections and/or any other updated info about the condition of these soldiers. May we only hear good news and may they all be healed b'ezrat HaShem (G-d willing). Gilad ben Aviva Shalit - kidnapped Israeli soldier that Hamas claims was injured in air raids on Gaza; Li'el Hoshea ben Miriam ? critical (enoshot) head injuries; Wahal Mijan ? critical (enosh), has metal shards in his brain, has had 3 operations & doctors are battling to save his life; Ben ben Netiva ? critical (enosh) with head injuries & has had 1 hand amputated & doctors are battling to save his other hand; Neriya ben Rivka ? very serious head injury; Noam ben Aliza - one leg amputated; doctors fighting to save the other; Yosef Chaim ben Ziva ? very seriously injured on the entire left side of his body- regained consciousness yesterday BH; Dvir ben Laya - seriously injured in his legs; Raphael ben Dina ? very seriously injured; Elishama Shalom ben Rivka Leah Oren ben Chaya ? seriously injured shoulder & hand ? has had 1 finger amputated; Ronen Chai ben Leah ? seriously injured Ron ben Havatzelet ? seriously injured with shrapnel over all of his body; Eitan ben Sarah ? very serious leg injury; Gal ben Hedva ? seriously injured with shrapnel to his jaw & mouth; Ran ben Merril ? moderate shoulder injury; Idan ben Nadi ? moderate shrapnel injuries; Yitzchak ben Navah - moderate shoulder injury; Netanel ben Navah - moderate shrapnel wounds to a lower extremity; Ohad ben Bracha ? moderate facial injuries; Maxim ben Olga - light lower leg injury, operation to remove shrapnel; Yisrael ben Ilana - light shrapnel injury to an ear; Yo'ad Ido ben Frieda Elka- light shrapnel injuries; Idan ben Liora - light shrapnel injuries; Nadav ben Miriam (Maria) - light shrapnel injuries; Sagi ben Osnat ? light shrapnel injuries to his leg; Omer ben Dorit ? light shrapnel inuries to legs; Evgeny ben Elizabeth ? leg injury Lior ben Mazal Oleg Dizengoff Avi Cohen Roni Rapaport Yaakov Wolf - hit by shrapnel in his neck that miraculously missed his jugular vein BH ? Moshe ben Eidi ? head injury Wounded civilians: Gavriel ben Sarah from Sderot ? child in severe shock from kassam attack; Yakov ben Rivka - very seriously injured from kassam rocket; Bat El Hila bat Phoebe ? moderately injured from kassam rocket that fell in Netivot Gila bat Odelia ? moderately injured by kassam attack in Netivot Kidnapped & Missing Soldiers: Ron ben Batya (Arad) Guy ben Rina (Hever) Tzvi ben Pninah (Feldman), Yekutiel Yehuda Nachman ben Sarah (Katz), Zecharia Shlomo ben Miriam (Baumel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/3b012464/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Thu Jan 8 11:18:58 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:18:58 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Obama rehires advisor who wants to invade Israel In-Reply-To: <855590370901071856v7fea1de0ib5adf34ed3707cab@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901071856v7fea1de0ib5adf34ed3707cab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <025d01c971b5$333413c0$999c3b40$@com> Headline News Sunday, November 30, 2008 Israel Today Staff Obama rehires advisor who wants to invade Israel US President-elect Barack Obama's transition website reveals that he has rehired a former advisor who once advocated an American invasion of Israel in order to impose a peace deal on the Jewish state and the Palestinians. Samantha Power will serve on the State Department National Security Team when Obama takes office in January, again raising the eyebrows of Israel's supporters in the US. During the Democratic Party primary campaign Obama was blasted for having Power on his team by those pointed to a disturbing interview she gave in 2000. In the interview with Harry Kreisler of the Institute for International Studies at Berkeley, Power suggests that the "Israel Lobby" controls US foreign policy, accuses Israel of widespread human rights violations and recommends invading Israel with a "mammoth protection force" to impose a peace agreement. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/c640c8ee/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 11:50:38 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:50:38 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Obama rehires advisor who wants to invade Israel In-Reply-To: <025d01c971b5$333413c0$999c3b40$@com> References: <855590370901071856v7fea1de0ib5adf34ed3707cab@mail.gmail.com> <025d01c971b5$333413c0$999c3b40$@com> Message-ID: <855590370901080950q48dc9680w77ecafa537a46744@mail.gmail.com> Is *anyone *surprised?!?! Not me....."..for the times, they are a'changin'..... * Hanoch * On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Patty wrote: > Headline News > > Sunday, November 30, 2008 Israel Today Staff > > > > *Obama rehires advisor who wants to invade Israel* > > US President-elect Barack Obama's transition websitereveals that he has rehired a former advisor who once advocated an American > invasion of Israel in order to impose a peace deal on the Jewish state and > the Palestinians. > > Samantha Power will serve on the State Department National Security Team > when Obama takes office in January, again raising the eyebrows of Israel's > supporters in the US. > > During the Democratic Party primary campaign Obama was blasted for having > Power on his team by those pointed to a disturbing interviewshe gave in 2000. > > In the interview with Harry Kreisler of the Institute for International > Studies at Berkeley, Power suggests that the "Israel Lobby" controls US > foreign policy, accuses Israel of widespread human rights violations and > recommends invading Israel with a "mammoth protection force" to impose a > peace agreement. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/d143b614/attachment.html From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com Thu Jan 8 12:28:56 2009 From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:28:56 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Sign your support for the IDF Message-ID: <200901081828.n08ISsEf014048@mail384c25.carrierzone.com> Subject: Sign your support for the IDF in Gaza http://www.usaisrael.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/900f6e4f/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Thu Jan 8 12:30:19 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:30:19 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Please pray for - In-Reply-To: <855590370901080822k8e9e100ode2c7d636cb6076c@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901080822k8e9e100ode2c7d636cb6076c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <507F160FD848409CA56AD95947B27871@bettylaptop> Hanoch, thanks so much for providing us with names of wounded soldiers and civilians as well as the kidnapped and missing soldiers. I printed out this list and placed it with my other print outs of the IDF Prayer for the Armed Forces and the newly distributed, Prayer for the South in Wartime, so that I would have them to incorporate into my prayers. I wept as I read over the names on this list and prayed for each of them. May HaShem strengthen and encourage each of them and their family members who helplessly stand by and may He heal them, not just physically, but emotionally and spiritually if needed. Sometimes it is hard to really relate to events, even though horrific and tragic, when we are so far removed by distance. In an article entitled, '7 Ways You Can Help Israel,' on the Aish.com website, it suggests that there are things we can do to harness the power of our imagination and make the situation in Israel more real in our minds. One suggestion was to look at a photo of soldiers standing in a tank or to look into the face of a soldier who has been killed in action, such as Captain Yonatan Netanel, age 27, who left a wife and 3 month old baby behind. or Dvri Emmaneul, age 22. who left behind a grieving mother and 4 devoted sisters.and then think.what if this were, G-d forbid, one of our sons or our brother or even, for the women, our husband? Would we not experience the emotion more deeply.and should we not be experiencing each death or injury as though it were our own family.for in all reality we who are a part of Judah or Israel or a part of those who love and stand with her.are a part of Khal Israel, the unity of Israel.and when one single life is affected, we are all affected. Elisheva/Betty _____ From: uilist-bounces at unitedisrael.org [mailto:uilist-bounces at unitedisrael.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:20 AM To: UI List Subject: [UILIST] PLEASE pray for - Wounded Soldiers and Civilians in Need of Prayer January 8, 2009 Please pray for our wounded soldiers and civilians. There are 40 soldiers being treated in several hospitals. This list below is incomplete. Please send us any more names that should be included here, mother's names where missing, corrections and/or any other updated info about the condition of these soldiers. May we only hear good news and may they all be healed b'ezrat HaShem (G-d willing). Gilad ben Aviva Shalit - kidnapped Israeli soldier that Hamas claims was injured in air raids on Gaza; Li'el Hoshea ben Miriam - critical (enoshot) head injuries; Wahal Mijan - critical (enosh), has metal shards in his brain, has had 3 operations & doctors are battling to save his life; Ben ben Netiva - critical (enosh) with head injuries & has had 1 hand amputated & doctors are battling to save his other hand; Neriya ben Rivka - very serious head injury; Noam ben Aliza - one leg amputated; doctors fighting to save the other; Yosef Chaim ben Ziva - very seriously injured on the entire left side of his body- regained consciousness yesterday BH; Dvir ben Laya - seriously injured in his legs; Raphael ben Dina - very seriously injured; Elishama Shalom ben Rivka Leah Oren ben Chaya - seriously injured shoulder & hand - has had 1 finger amputated; Ronen Chai ben Leah - seriously injured Ron ben Havatzelet - seriously injured with shrapnel over all of his body; Eitan ben Sarah - very serious leg injury; Gal ben Hedva - seriously injured with shrapnel to his jaw & mouth; Ran ben Merril - moderate shoulder injury; Idan ben Nadi - moderate shrapnel injuries; Yitzchak ben Navah - moderate shoulder injury; Netanel ben Navah - moderate shrapnel wounds to a lower extremity; Ohad ben Bracha - moderate facial injuries; Maxim ben Olga - light lower leg injury, operation to remove shrapnel; Yisrael ben Ilana - light shrapnel injury to an ear; Yo'ad Ido ben Frieda Elka- light shrapnel injuries; Idan ben Liora - light shrapnel injuries; Nadav ben Miriam (Maria) - light shrapnel injuries; Sagi ben Osnat - light shrapnel injuries to his leg; Omer ben Dorit - light shrapnel inuries to legs; Evgeny ben Elizabeth - leg injury Lior ben Mazal Oleg Dizengoff Avi Cohen Roni Rapaport Yaakov Wolf - hit by shrapnel in his neck that miraculously missed his jugular vein BH ? Moshe ben Eidi - head injury Wounded civilians: Gavriel ben Sarah from Sderot - child in severe shock from kassam attack; Yakov ben Rivka - very seriously injured from kassam rocket; Bat El Hila bat Phoebe - moderately injured from kassam rocket that fell in Netivot Gila bat Odelia - moderately injured by kassam attack in Netivot Kidnapped & Missing Soldiers: Ron ben Batya (Arad) Guy ben Rina (Hever) Tzvi ben Pninah (Feldman), Yekutiel Yehuda Nachman ben Sarah (Katz), Zecharia Shlomo ben Miriam (Baumel _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:23 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Please pray for - Wounded Soldiers and Civilians in Need of Prayer January 8, 2009 Please pray for our wounded soldiers and civilians. There are 40 soldiers being treated in several hospitals. This list below is incomplete. Please send us any more names that should be included here, mother's names where missing, corrections and/or any other updated info about the condition of these soldiers. May we only hear good news and may they all be healed b'ezrat HaShem (G-d willing). Gilad ben Aviva Shalit - kidnapped Israeli soldier that Hamas claims was injured in air raids on Gaza; Li'el Hoshea ben Miriam - critical (enoshot) head injuries; Wahal Mijan - critical (enosh), has metal shards in his brain, has had 3 operations & doctors are battling to save his life; Ben ben Netiva - critical (enosh) with head injuries & has had 1 hand amputated & doctors are battling to save his other hand; Neriya ben Rivka - very serious head injury; Noam ben Aliza - one leg amputated; doctors fighting to save the other; Yosef Chaim ben Ziva - very seriously injured on the entire left side of his body- regained consciousness yesterday BH; Dvir ben Laya - seriously injured in his legs; Raphael ben Dina - very seriously injured; Elishama Shalom ben Rivka Leah Oren ben Chaya - seriously injured shoulder & hand - has had 1 finger amputated; Ronen Chai ben Leah - seriously injured Ron ben Havatzelet - seriously injured with shrapnel over all of his body; Eitan ben Sarah - very serious leg injury; Gal ben Hedva - seriously injured with shrapnel to his jaw & mouth; Ran ben Merril - moderate shoulder injury; Idan ben Nadi - moderate shrapnel injuries; Yitzchak ben Navah - moderate shoulder injury; Netanel ben Navah - moderate shrapnel wounds to a lower extremity; Ohad ben Bracha - moderate facial injuries; Maxim ben Olga - light lower leg injury, operation to remove shrapnel; Yisrael ben Ilana - light shrapnel injury to an ear; Yo'ad Ido ben Frieda Elka- light shrapnel injuries; Idan ben Liora - light shrapnel injuries; Nadav ben Miriam (Maria) - light shrapnel injuries; Sagi ben Osnat - light shrapnel injuries to his leg; Omer ben Dorit - light shrapnel inuries to legs; Evgeny ben Elizabeth - leg injury Lior ben Mazal Oleg Dizengoff Avi Cohen Roni Rapaport Yaakov Wolf - hit by shrapnel in his neck that miraculously missed his jugular vein BH ? Moshe ben Eidi - head injury Wounded civilians: Gavriel ben Sarah from Sderot - child in severe shock from kassam attack; Yakov ben Rivka - very seriously injured from kassam rocket; Bat El Hila bat Phoebe - moderately injured from kassam rocket that fell in Netivot Gila bat Odelia - moderately injured by kassam attack in Netivot Kidnapped & Missing Soldiers: Ron ben Batya (Arad) Guy ben Rina (Hever) Tzvi ben Pninah (Feldman), Yekutiel Yehuda Nachman ben Sarah (Katz), Zecharia Shlomo ben Miriam (Baumel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/245b840a/attachment.html From chattertonw at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 8 13:25:36 2009 From: chattertonw at bellsouth.net (chattertonw at bellsouth.net) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:25:36 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Amos Prophesies Down Through the Ages...] In-Reply-To: <4965AE75.80409@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <010820091925.15662.4966532E00033E4B00003D2E22230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9902019B9D0A9B9B0E080C@att.net> Shalom, Joe! Indeed, Ross always says that reading the prophets can be just like reading the daily newspaper... Jeremiah 47:4 Because of the day that cometh to spoil all the Philistines, and to cut off from Tyrus and Zidon every helper that remaineth: for YHVH will spoil the Philistines, the remnant of the country of Caphtor. 47:5 Baldness is come upon Gaza; Ashkelon is cut off with the remnant of their valley: how long wilt you cut yourself? 47:6 O you sword of YHVH , how long will it be ere you be quiet? put up yourself into your scabbard, rest, and be still. 47:7 How can it be quiet, seeing YHVH has given it a charge against Ashkelon, and against the sea shore? there has he appointed it. "... at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established" -------------- Original message from Joe Indomenico : -------------- Shalom Glenn, this ties in beautifully with Zephaniah chap 2. Reports are just coming in that Hezbollah has just fired rockets from the Litani River in Southern Lebanon into Northern Israel around the Western Galilee town of Nahariya. No reported deaths. Baruch HaShem. Zephaniah Chapter 2 ? ??????????????, ??????????--???????, ??? ???????. 1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O shameless nation; ? ???????? ????? ???, ?????? ????? ????; ???????? ???-?????? ????????, ?????? ???-??????--???????? ???-?????? ????????, ???? ???-??????. 2 Before the decree bring forth the day when one passeth as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you. ? ?????????? ???-?????? ????-??????? ???????, ?????? ??????????? ????????; ??????????-?????, ?????????? ???????--?????? ???????????, ??????? ???-??????. 3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye humble of the earth, that have executed His ordinance; seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger. ? ???? ?????? ???????? ???????, ????????????? ??????????; ??????????, ????????????? ????????????, ??????????, ????????. {?} 4 For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation; they shall drive out Ashdod at the noonday, and Ekron shall be rooted up. ? ????, ???????? ????? ??????--????? ?????????; ??????-?????? ????????, ???????? ????? ?????????????, ????????????????, ?????? ???????. 5 Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea-coast, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD is against you, O Canaan, the land of the Philistines; I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant. ? ????????? ????? ??????, ?????? ?????? ??????--?????????? ????. 6 And the sea-coast shall be pastures, even meadows for shepherds, and folds for flocks. ? ??????? ?????, ??????????? ????? ????????--???????? ????????: ????????? ???????????, ???????? ???????????--???? ????????? ?????? ??????????, ?????? ????? (?????????). 7 And it shall be a portion for the remnant of the house of Judah, whereon they shall feed; in the houses of Ashkelon shall they lie down in the evening; for the LORD their God will remember them, and turn their captivity. ? ??????????? ???????? ??????, ?????????? ?????? ???????--?????? ??????? ???-??????, ?????????????? ???-?????????. 8 I have heard the taunt of Moab, and the revilings of the children of Ammon, wherewith they have taunted My people, and spoken boastfully concerning their border. ? ????? ???-????? ????? ?????? ???????? ??????? ??????????, ????-?????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ??????? ??????????, ???????? ?????? ?????????-????? ??????????, ???-??????; ????????? ?????? ?????????, ??????? ?????? ??????????. 9 Therefore as I live, saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah, even the breeding-place of nettles, and saltpits, and a desolation, for ever; the residue of My people shall spoil them, and the remnant of My nation shall inherit them. ? ???? ?????, ?????? ?????????: ???? ??????? ?????????????, ???-??? ?????? ????????. 10 This shall they have for their pride, because they have taunted and spoken boastfully against the people of the LORD of hosts. ?? ?????? ??????, ????????, ???? ?????, ??? ????-??????? ???????; ???????????????-??? ????? ???????????, ???? ?????? ?????????. 11 The LORD will be terrible unto them; for He will famish all the gods of the earth; then shall all the isles of the nations worship Him, every one from its place. ?? ????-?????? ?????????, ??????? ???????? ??????. 12 Ye Ethiopians also, ye shall be slain by My sword. ?? ????? ????? ???-??????, ????????? ???-????????; ???????? ???-???????? ??????????, ?????? ????????????. 13 And He will stretch out His hand against the north, and destroy Assyria; and will make Nineveh a desolation, and dry like the wilderness. ?? ????????? ????????? ????????, ????-???????-????--????-????? ????-??????, ??????????????? ????????; ???? ????????? ??????????, ????? ???????, ???? ???????, ?????. 14 And all beasts of every kind shall lie down in the midst of her in herds; both the pelican and the bittern shall lodge in the capitals thereof; voices shall sing in the windows; desolation shall be in the posts; for the cedar-work thereof shall be uncovered. ?? ???? ?????? ???????????, ???????????? ???????, ????????? ???????????, ????? ????????? ????; ????? ??????? ?????????, ???????? ????????--???? ?????? ???????, ???????? ??????? ?????. {?} 15 This is the joyous city that dwelt without care, that said in her heart: 'I am, and there is none else beside me'; how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! Every one that passeth by her shall hiss, and wag his hand. The escalation has just began. HaShem remember Rachamim. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/be06022d/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jan 8 17:44:22 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 09:44:22 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES] Message-ID: <49668FD6.3060806@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/8b6e62be/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: James Tabor Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:48:46 -0500 Size: 22218 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/8b6e62be/attachment.eml From stephen at 777jesusislord.com Thu Jan 8 17:46:32 2009 From: stephen at 777jesusislord.com (stephen) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:46:32 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] This won't get much play in the US media References: <4965AE80.DC62C.828@pop.directnic.com> Message-ID: This won't get much play in the US media: http://sderot.aish.com/SderotPetitions/MissilesFromGaza.php Stephen Tikkun Tzedek ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 1:42 AM Subject: Dialogue Digest, Vol 9, Issue 26 > Send Dialogue mailing list submissions to > dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/mailman/listinfo/dialogue > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > dialogue-request at rootsoffaith.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > dialogue-owner at rootsoffaith.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Dialogue digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES] > (Betty Givin) > 2. RE: Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES (Betty Givin) > 3. Amos Prophesies Down Through the Ages... > (chattertonw at bellsouth.net) > 4. [Fwd: [Dialogue] Amos Prophesies Down Through the Ages...] > (Joe Indomenico) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:36:38 -0600 > From: "Betty Givin" > Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES] > To: > Message-ID: <75E024C46C724352898EA8DC9E38B95F at bettylaptop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanks Joe, for the encouragement. I will definitely show this to my > rabbi. > I really like him as a person. He is very genuine and kind, but just > seems > to be on a different planet from me on this one. He takes the approach of > Rabbi Akiva that the tribes will not return. > > > > Dennis' article is excellent. Perhaps I will show him a portion of that > as > well. I know that you will enjoy it thoroughly. Yes, I love the sabres > too > and I know just what you mean. Here in the galut, some of the memory > banks > just need reviving, and I have a feeling that is what we of "Joseph" are > supposed to be about.helping with the re-awakening! Dennis Jones is busy > at > the task in his synagogue, and as James said, has gained their trust. > > > > Thanks again, Joe. You always have words of encouragement and wisdom to > offer. I appreciate you. Don't work too hard at the beach! > > > > Shalom, > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > > _____ > > From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Joe Indomenico > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:34 PM > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES] > > > > Shalom Elisheva, > > I am sure you are all cold in the States. Here it is sweltering. Hence the > trips to the beach and the swimming pool. > > Thank you for passing this information on. I was a bit surprised to hear > your personal experience on this matter. > All the rabbis that I have come across have always stated that there has > always been an anticipation for the lost tribes to return. > > In fact we discussed this last Shabbat with Dror and Eli as the Haftarah > of > Parashat "Vayigash" was Ezekiel 37 v15-28. > > I would like to read to you from the commentary of the Stones Edition > "Chumash" Art Scroll Series page 1144 - > > A Sidrah that tells of the reunification of Jacob's sons is followed by a > Haftarah that prophecies the eventual unification of the twelve tribes of > Israel. > The prophet Ezekiel , like Jeremiah, was one of the main prophets of the > Destruction, and he actually joined his exiled brethren in Babylonia. The > destruction of the Temple took place 140 years after the exile of the ten > tribes, so that the prophecy of this Haftarah was a source of great > comfort > to the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, for if even their long-lost comrades > of > the Northern Kingdom were assured that they would again become part of the > nation, surely the two southern tribes could be certain that G-d was not > forsaking them. > According to Maharal (Gur Aryeh, Genisis 45:15), the tears that > accompanied > the embrace of Joseph and Benjamin when Joseph revealed himself in Egypt > were tears of joy, because the long - separated brothers foresaw the > prophecy of Ezekiel. Joseph was the father of Ephraim, leader of the ten > tribes, and Benjamin's descendants remained loyal to the Davidic dynasty > of > Judah ; thus their reunion in Egypt was a precursor of that foretold by > Ezekiel. > The Haftarah goes on to make clear what sort of unified nation the twelve > tribes of the future would be. The prophecy speaks not of a mere political > union, free from the wars and rivalry that marred the era of the First > temple > Rather , it speaks of an era under a king from the House of David, who > will > be a servant of G-d and who will unify the people in allegiance to the > Torah. Idolatry will be gone and the Temple will stand ; the standard of > life will be obedience to the laws of Torah and the result will be that > the > entire world will know that HASHEM is G-d. > > Elisheva , I feel for you. I did not realize that you have had such a > tussle > with your rabbi. > Go and read the above to him and see his reaction. > I pray that the Ruach of HaShem is your guardian. > > Dror and Eli including myself are with you on this one all the way. > Sabres are always exited. They can feel it , touch it, breathe it and > respond to it. > Assimilation in Galut does funny things to the memory bank. > > John, I also thank you for bringing up this question. It needed to be > asked. > Todah Rabbah. > > Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/mailman/private/dialogue/attachments/20090107/c8725a74/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:38:40 -0600 > From: "Betty Givin" > Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES > To: > Message-ID: <41FF0579810E4A33AA242AFCBE649C2B at bettylaptop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanks, James. This is very timely. I just perused Dennis' article and > look forward to reading it in more detail. Way to go Dennis! > > > > B'Ahava, > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > > _____ > > From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of James Tabor > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:49 PM > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Joe/INGATHERING OF THE EXILES > > > > On the matter of the varied rabbinic views regarding the return of those > of > the northern ten tribes there is an excellent study by our friend and > colleague Dennis Jones up on the United Israel web site. I highly > recommend > it. As some of you know Dennis is a convert to Judaism, but an avid > "believer" in the "lost tribes" returning in our times. He also has > inspired > such confidence in his congregation over many years of service that he is > serving right now as synagogue president... > > > > Here is the link for the study: > > > > http://unitedisrael.org/Historical-Research/Will-the-Lost-Tribes-Return_Anal > ysis-of-Lost-Tribes-in-Rabbinic-Literature.html > > > > Best, > > > > James > > > > > > On Jan 7, 2009, at 9:01 PM, Betty Givin wrote: > > > > > > Shalom Joe, > > > > Very well stated and explained. And even though I did choose to convert to > Judaism many years ago, I would never subscribe to the notion that we > should > all convert, .nor would I ever attempt to persuade or influence others to > follow in my footsteps. For me, it was a decision of the heart, and I felt > compelled by HaShem that this was the path I needed to take. > > > > Regarding your statement, There is not one teaching that I know of where > the > rabbis are not earnestly waiting for the lost tribes to return. This is > prayed for in all the synagogues around the world, I agree in principle. > In > fact, years ago, prior to our conversion, Roger and I were sitting in an > orthodox Jewish home among some friends, and one of them a 'sabre,' or > Israeli born young Jewish man, said to us excitedly." You know, don't you, > that out siddur (prayer book) speaks of you and people like you?" He then > turned to the 10th Benediction in the Weekly Amidah section of my > Artscroll > siddur that I had with me and read to us out loud. When he came to the > "gather our exiles" portion, he pointed it out and said, "See, that's you. > You are fulfilling this prayer today! > > > > "Sound the great shofar for our freedom, raise the banner to gather our > exiles and speedily gather us together from the four corners of the earth > to > our Land. Blessed are You, HASHEM, who gathers in the dispersed of His > people Israel" > > > > As you may well know, this section is actually entitled INGATHERING OF > EXILES, or KIBBUTZ G'LUYOT in Hebrew. Needless to say, I was taken back > and > began to look for and find many other references to the gathering in of > the > exiles in the siddur. I put little post it notes all thru my siddur and > they are still there today! I did not notice until later that this prayer > is the 10TH Benediction! > > > > I said earlier, that I agree in principle with your statement about the > rabbis earnestly waiting for the lost tribes to return and the fact that > it > is being prayed for in all the synagogues around the world. I felt like I > needed to clarify the 'in principle,' because in my own experience, the > rabbis are waiting for the dispersed to return, but they may not identify > them as those of the 'lost tribes.' When I mentioned the 'lost tribes' to > my rabbi shortly after that discussion, he simply wrote it off, with a > comment stating they were lost and never would return.and when I said that > I > thought I was a part of the returning exiles of the lost tribes, he just > smiled as if to try to pacify me. That said, they may be praying this > prayer on a daily basis, but not all the rabbis and certainly not all the > people sitting in the shuls and congregations, believe they are praying > for > the "lost tribes" to return when they pray this benediction and the many > other prayers along the same line. I know there is a difference of > opinion > amongst the rabbis as to whether the tribes will return. > > > > My current rabbi seems to be of the opinion that when the Northern Kingdom > was carried away into captivity, that that was the end of them and he > equates the mention of "Israel" in the prophets as those primarily of > Judah > because he says they are the only ones who came back. I want to talk with > him more, as he may not be aware of this huge phenomena in the non-Jewish > world of those being drawn to the One G-d of Israel and to His Torah. It > would be interesting to hear his explanation and to ask him whether he > would > include them under the umbrella of "Khal Israel." > > > > Thanks for your thoughtful post, Joe, and thanks to you, John for bringing > up your questions. > > > > B'Ahavat Yehuda v'Yisrael, > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/mailman/private/dialogue/attachments/20090107/eae1b6f3/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:58:22 +0000 > From: chattertonw at bellsouth.net > Subject: [Dialogue] Amos Prophesies Down Through the Ages... > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Message-ID: > <010820090458.14354.496587EE0000E4AB0000381222230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9902019B9D0A9B9B0E080C at att.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Amos 1:6 NRSV Thus says YHVH: For three transgressions of Gaza, and for > four, I will not revoke the punishment; because they carried into exile > entire communities, to hand them over to Edom. > 1:7 So I will send a fire on the wall of Gaza, fire that shall devour its > strongholds. > 1:8 I will cut off the inhabitants from Ashdod, and the one who holds the > scepter from Ashkelon; I will turn my hand against Ekron, and the remnant > of the Philistines shall perish, says the Lord YHVH. > -------------- next part -------------- > Skipped content of type multipart/related > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:42:45 +1000 > From: Joe Indomenico > Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Amos Prophesies Down Through the Ages...] > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Message-ID: <4965AE75.80409 at westnet.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/mailman/private/dialogue/attachments/20090108/4d5eab68/attachment.html > -------------- next part -------------- > An embedded message was scrubbed... > From: chattertonw at bellsouth.net > Subject: [Dialogue] Amos Prophesies Down Through the Ages... > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:58:22 +0000 > Size: 5418 > Url: > http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/mailman/private/dialogue/attachments/20090108/4d5eab68/DialogueAmosProphesiesDownThroughtheAges....eml > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > End of Dialogue Digest, Vol 9, Issue 26 > *************************************** > From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jan 8 18:15:56 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:15:56 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] This won't get much play in the US media] Message-ID: <4966973C.1090100@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/3177edff/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "stephen" Subject: [Dialogue] This won't get much play in the US media Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:46:32 -0600 Size: 17314 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/3177edff/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jan 8 18:36:02 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:36:02 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Sign your support for the IDF] Message-ID: <49669BF2.5080205@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/fc8d4d8f/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Steve Mathe Subject: [Dialogue] Sign your support for the IDF Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:28:56 -0800 Size: 4241 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/fc8d4d8f/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jan 8 18:52:37 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:52:37 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Please pray for -] Message-ID: <49669FD5.3010107@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/2a0f2e88/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Hanoch Young" Subject: [Dialogue] Please pray for - Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:22:31 -0500 Size: 10820 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/2a0f2e88/attachment.eml From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com Thu Jan 8 22:17:11 2009 From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:17:11 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Message-ID: <200901090417.n094H5CU004360@mail383c25.carrierzone.com> Hi Friends, Want to let you know, we are OK after the recent 5.0 earthquake a few minutes ago. It was some 60 miles away from us but it shook the house a bit. http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ http://www.data.scec.org/index.html Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/896a83ff/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Thu Jan 8 22:36:07 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 23:36:07 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA In-Reply-To: <200901090417.n094H5CU004360@mail383c25.carrierzone.com> References: <200901090417.n094H5CU004360@mail383c25.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: <033501c97213$cb73f890$625be9b0$@com> Hey Steve, Glad to hear you're okay, didn't hear about the earthquake. patty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Steve Mathe Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:17 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Hi Friends, Want to let you know, we are OK after the recent 5.0 earthquake a few minutes ago. It was some 60 miles away from us but it shook the house a bit. http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ http://www.data.scec.org/index.html Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/5db39b1d/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 8 22:44:58 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 04:44:58 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Message-ID: <272098528-1231476315-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1742716468-@bxe286.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Man, what is going on out there? Flooding in Washington and Oregon, now earthquakes in CA! Glad you're okay. John C. ------Original Message------ From: Steve Mathe Sender: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org To: Dialogue ReplyTo: Dialogue Sent: Jan 8, 2009 22:17 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Hi Friends, Want to let you know, we are OK after the recent 5.0 earthquake? a few minutes ago. It was some 60 miles away from us but it shook the house a bit. ? http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ http://www.data.scec.org/index.html Steve _______________________________________________ Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From ptyler at aac-usa.com Thu Jan 8 23:30:43 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 00:30:43 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA In-Reply-To: <272098528-1231476315-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1742716468-@bxe286.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <272098528-1231476315-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1742716468-@bxe286.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <000d01c9721b$6c545780$44fd0680$@com> Hey - did you see Yellowstone quake report? Maybe NY is not so bad! Patty -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:45 PM To: Dialogue Subject: Re: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Man, what is going on out there? Flooding in Washington and Oregon, now earthquakes in CA! Glad you're okay. John C. ------Original Message------ From: Steve Mathe Sender: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org To: Dialogue ReplyTo: Dialogue Sent: Jan 8, 2009 22:17 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Hi Friends, Want to let you know, we are OK after the recent 5.0 earthquake? a few minutes ago. It was some 60 miles away from us but it shook the house a bit. ? http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ http://www.data.scec.org/index.html Steve _______________________________________________ Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com Thu Jan 8 23:44:37 2009 From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:44:37 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA In-Reply-To: <000d01c9721b$6c545780$44fd0680$@com> References: <272098528-1231476315-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1742716468-@bxe286.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <000d01c9721b$6c545780$44fd0680$@com> Message-ID: <200901090544.n095iVZg024581@mail385c25.carrierzone.com> Yeah, lately we have had hundreds of earthquakes right underneath Yellowstone, if it goes, some say on third to half the US and good chunk of Canada will go with it.... http://www.seis.utah.edu/req2webdir/recenteqs/Maps/Yellowstone.html Steve At 09:30 PM 1/8/2009, you wrote: >Hey - did you see Yellowstone quake report? Maybe NY is not so bad! > >Patty > >-----Original Message----- >From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of >carlson_john at bellsouth.net >Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:45 PM >To: Dialogue >Subject: Re: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA > >Man, what is going on out there? > >Flooding in Washington and Oregon, now earthquakes in CA! > >Glad you're okay. > >John C. > >------Original Message------ >From: Steve Mathe >Sender: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >To: Dialogue >ReplyTo: Dialogue >Sent: Jan 8, 2009 22:17 >Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA > >Hi Friends, > > Want to let you know, we are OK after the recent 5.0 earthquake a few >minutes ago. It was some 60 miles away from us but it shook the house a bit. > > >http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ > > >http://www.data.scec.org/index.html > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > > > >Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > >_______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090108/c174f758/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Thu Jan 8 23:48:23 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 00:48:23 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA In-Reply-To: <200901090544.n095iVZg024581@mail385c25.carrierzone.com> References: <272098528-1231476315-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1742716468-@bxe286.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <000d01c9721b$6c545780$44fd0680$@com> <200901090544.n095iVZg024581@mail385c25.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: <002101c9721d$e3ec6bf0$abc543d0$@com> Hi Steve, where in CA do you live? Dave and I lived in Canoga Park around 1981. patty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Steve Mathe Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:45 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Yeah, lately we have had hundreds of earthquakes right underneath Yellowstone, if it goes, some say on third to half the US and good chunk of Canada will go with it.... http://www.seis.utah.edu/req2webdir/recenteqs/Maps/Yellowstone.html Steve At 09:30 PM 1/8/2009, you wrote: Hey - did you see Yellowstone quake report? Maybe NY is not so bad! Patty -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [ mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:45 PM To: Dialogue Subject: Re: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Man, what is going on out there? Flooding in Washington and Oregon, now earthquakes in CA! Glad you're okay. John C. ------Original Message------ From: Steve Mathe Sender: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org To: Dialogue ReplyTo: Dialogue Sent: Jan 8, 2009 22:17 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Hi Friends, Want to let you know, we are OK after the recent 5.0 earthquake a few minutes ago. It was some 60 miles away from us but it shook the house a bit. http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ < http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ > http://www.data.scec.org/index.html < http://www.data.scec.org/index.html> Steve _______________________________________________ Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/906926b4/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 8 23:50:15 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 05:50:15 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Message-ID: <1404105908-1231480217-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1816299851-@bxe286.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> No not yet, news media are hung up on blogojevich right now. I'm sure I would rather have snow than earthquakes. JC ------Original Message------ From: David and Patty Tyler Sender: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org To: Dialogue ReplyTo: Dialogue Sent: Jan 8, 2009 23:30 Subject: RE: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Hey - did you see Yellowstone quake report? Maybe NY is not so bad! Patty -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:45 PM To: Dialogue Subject: Re: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Man, what is going on out there? Flooding in Washington and Oregon, now earthquakes in CA! Glad you're okay. John C. ------Original Message------ From: Steve Mathe Sender: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org To: Dialogue ReplyTo: Dialogue Sent: Jan 8, 2009 22:17 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Hi Friends, Want to let you know, we are OK after the recent 5.0 earthquake? a few minutes ago. It was some 60 miles away from us but it shook the house a bit. ? http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ http://www.data.scec.org/index.html Steve _______________________________________________ Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T _______________________________________________ Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From jid at westnet.com.au Fri Jan 9 01:28:00 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:28:00 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA] Message-ID: <4966FC80.5060603@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/ce103546/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Patty " Subject: RE: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 00:30:43 -0500 Size: 4919 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/ce103546/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Fri Jan 9 01:33:04 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:33:04 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA] Message-ID: <4966FDB0.8010009@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/c2af6da7/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Patty " Subject: RE: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 00:30:43 -0500 Size: 4919 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/c2af6da7/attachment.eml From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Fri Jan 9 07:40:29 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 08:40:29 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA In-Reply-To: <272098528-1231476315-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1742716468-@bxe286.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><000d01c9721b$6c545780$44fd0680$@com> <200901090544.n095iVZg024581@mail385c25.carrierzone.com> References: <272098528-1231476315-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1742716468-@bxe286.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><000d01c9721b$6c545780$44fd0680$@com> <200901090544.n095iVZg024581@mail385c25.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: Did it shake the house worse than last time, Steve? Did y'all have any loss? Am so glad to hear you're okay. ~ Pat From: Steve Mathe Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:44 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Yeah, lately we have had hundreds of earthquakes right underneath Yellowstone, if it goes, some say on third to half the US and good chunk of Canada will go with it.... http://www.seis.utah.edu/req2webdir/recenteqs/Maps/Yellowstone.html Steve At 09:30 PM 1/8/2009, you wrote: Hey - did you see Yellowstone quake report? Maybe NY is not so bad! Patty -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [ mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:45 PM To: Dialogue Subject: Re: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Man, what is going on out there? Flooding in Washington and Oregon, now earthquakes in CA! Glad you're okay. John C. ------Original Message------ From: Steve Mathe Sender: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org To: Dialogue ReplyTo: Dialogue Sent: Jan 8, 2009 22:17 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA Hi Friends, Want to let you know, we are OK after the recent 5.0 earthquake a few minutes ago. It was some 60 miles away from us but it shook the house a bit. http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ < http://earthquake.usgs.gov/> http://www.data.scec.org/index.html < http://www.data.scec.org/index.html> Steve _______________________________________________ Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T _______________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/de31c60b/attachment.html From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com Fri Jan 9 09:27:07 2009 From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 07:27:07 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA In-Reply-To: <002101c9721d$e3ec6bf0$abc543d0$@com> References: <272098528-1231476315-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1742716468-@bxe286.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <000d01c9721b$6c545780$44fd0680$@com> <200901090544.n095iVZg024581@mail385c25.carrierzone.com> <002101c9721d$e3ec6bf0$abc543d0$@com> Message-ID: <200901091527.n09FR4P6013385@mail383c25.carrierzone.com> Hi Patty, we live in Fullerton, Orange County. The shake was not as bad as last time, it just gave the house a noticable jolt that made it creak. Was not as bad as the last one. Steve At 09:48 PM 1/8/2009, you wrote: >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01C971F3.FB1663F0" >Content-Language: en-us > >Hi Steve, where in CA do you live? Dave and I lived in Canoga Park >around 1981. > >patty > >From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >[mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Steve Mathe >Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:45 AM >To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >Subject: RE: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA > >Yeah, lately we have had hundreds of earthquakes right underneath >Yellowstone, if it goes, some say on third to half the US and good >chunk of Canada will go with it.... > >http://www.seis.utah.edu/req2webdir/recenteqs/Maps/Yellowstone.html > > >Steve > > >At 09:30 PM 1/8/2009, you wrote: > >Hey - did you see Yellowstone quake report? Maybe NY is not so bad! > >Patty > >-----Original Message----- >From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >[ mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of >carlson_john at bellsouth.net >Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:45 PM >To: Dialogue >Subject: Re: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA > >Man, what is going on out there? > >Flooding in Washington and Oregon, now earthquakes in CA! > >Glad you're okay. > >John C. > >------Original Message------ >From: Steve Mathe >Sender: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >To: Dialogue >ReplyTo: Dialogue >Sent: Jan 8, 2009 22:17 >Subject: [Dialogue] earthquake in CA > >Hi Friends, > > Want to let you know, we are OK after the recent 5.0 earthquake a few >minutes ago. It was some 60 miles away from us but it shook the house a bit. > > >http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ < >http://earthquake.usgs.gov/> > > >http://www.data.scec.org/index.html >< http://www.data.scec.org/index.html> > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > > > >Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > >_______________________________________________ >_______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/b7397d93/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Fri Jan 9 13:06:40 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:06:40 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] A message from Simcha Jacobovici just before Shabbat Message-ID: <7EB3616F-D24A-4BB6-AD4B-DD007CEC07EB@earthlink.net> I wanted to share with all of you this message from Simcha Jacobovici that I just received, just before the Shabbat in Israel. Feel free to circulate it as you wish. Shabbat Shalom, James > Hi, > > On the news last night I watched some of the best and brightest in > Israel being buried, teens and officers in their 20s. Meanwhile, the > United Nations was busy condemning Israel and trying to rescue Hamas > by imposing a ceasefire. Synagogues were attacked in Sweden, the UK, > Belgium and France. What kind of world are we living in? 8,000 > missiles have been fired at southern Israel over the last couple of > years. What nation in the world would tolerate a single missile? > Would Canada allow Hamilton to be bombed daily without any response? > Would the US? Would any country? Meanwhile, Israel has tolerated > 8,000 missiles. In the last few weeks, an old people?s home was hit, > a high school and two kindergartens. The only reason that we haven?t > seen mass carnage is because we don?t use our kids as shields. In > the high school, a decision was made at 4:30am to cancel classes and > at 9:30am a missile landed through the roof right into one of the > classes. There would have been over 30 children killed if the > fateful decision had not been made. And yet, the United Nations is > busy protecting the missile launchers. Not only are they shooting at > kindergartens, they are shooting from kindergartens so that if we > respond they can have photo ops with CNN with their own children as > props. On the one side, you have a democratic society that wants > nothing else but to be left alone. On the other side, you have a > fundamentalist group dedicated to mass suicide funded by Iran that?s > preparing a nuclear arsenal for us. Last week, Hamas murdered 35 > Fatah leaders and maimed another 75 as collaborators. They attack > Jewish children, they execute their own opposition, they oppress > women and they flog homosexuals. And yet, this week Annie Lennox and > Bianca Jagger demonstrated against Israel and for Hamas. What?s > wrong with this picture? What?s wrong with the world? > > Shabbat Shalom from Israel, > Simcha > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/c43f2e89/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Fri Jan 9 15:39:28 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 16:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] FW: Gaza, by Simon Jacobson Message-ID: <002401c972a2$c1768c10$0400a8c0@marvin> Something else to ponder. marvin _____ From: wisdomreb at meaningfullife.com [mailto:wisdomreb at meaningfullife.com] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 2:48 PM To: mhyde7 at tds.net Subject: Gaza, by Simon Jacobson GAZA: A CANDID CONVERSATION By Simon Jacobson The battle in Gaza is being fought not only on the ground, but also in our psyches. It's hard to even distinguish whether our opinions are based on facts or propaganda. Does Israel have a right to protect its citizens from thousands of rocket attacks, or is Israel's response "disproportionate" in killing so many Gazan civilians. This battle is being waged among the citizens of the world, in your circles as well as mine. It spills over into fundamental and angry disagreements among Jews themselves. To the point that each side utterly dismisses the other, declaring that "they simply don't get it." How the logic of intelligent people can be so contradictory requires a study of its own. Some relate it to propaganda. Others to assimilation and ignorance. And yet others associate it to a deterioration of foundational values and spiritual vision, which feeds confusion and allows people to "substitute darkness for light" (in the words of the prophet). Which is what makes writing about the topic so difficult. There is no way to discuss this issue without infuriating someone. What makes it even more delicate is that we are presently in midst of a war, where lives are being lost and blood being shed. To write about this from a distance, pontificating one way or another, can appear - or actually be - callous and insensitive. At the same time, not to write about these events that are dominating headlines and affecting us all, seems equally detached. Therefore, with trepidation but strong resolve, and with apologies all around, I feel that the only way to even attempt tackling the issues in some objective fashion (if that is at all possible) is by moving away from an ideological voice and putting on a "journalistic" hat. Due to the complexity of the issues at hand and the strong positions that people have from one extreme to the other, utilizing a journalistic approach can perhaps help navigate the minefield of this conflict. I don't know if that will help, but I will try, and I apologize ahead of time if it offends anyone. What will probably happen as a result of this "absurd" idea is to alienate everyone. Oh well, if that's the case, I guess we'll have to chalk it up to yet another casualty of war. Please know that despite appearances, I am not insensitive nor neutral; it is just an experiment at a method that will hopefully allow more people to be included in the conversation, instead of just preaching to the converted. More importantly, by listening to the different arguments, even ones that initially may make your blood boil, we can all become wiser in addressing the issues not just out of gut instinct (which has its virtues), but in a more intelligent and comprehensive - and sophisticated - fashion. So here is a conversation between two of my friends, from opposite sides of the aisle. In a surprisingly cordial tone these two individuals were at least able to have a dialogue. Full disclosure: I brought them together. They are both friends of mine and trust me, despite some of our fundamental disagreements. And I asked them to speak freely and helped moderate the conversation, preventing it from escalating into a full-blown argument, in which both sides silence and dismiss the other. I clearly have my own position. But as I mentioned I have donned my journalistic hat for the moment, in the hope that we all can become wiser for it. At their request, we shall call my two friends Jeff and Evelyn. Jeff presents the pro-Israel voice, which persuasively argues that the issue is very clear-cut and straightforward. Hamas is a terrorist organization whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel. For eight years Hamas has been launching rockets and terrorizing over a million innocent civilian lives in southern Israel. Israel, as any sovereign country, is simply acting in self-defense, doing what every country's primary responsibility is: to protect its citizens. In the words of President-Elect Barack Obama: "If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I would do everything to stop that, and would expect Israel to do the same thing." Evelyn takes the opposite position, proclaiming herself pro-Palestinian, while maintaining her Jewish identity and general support of Israel. In other words she distinguishes herself from those Palestinians that call for the destruction of Israel. Her counter argument is that Israel is the aggressor and is attacking innocent civilians in Gaza. She adds that even if some response is necessary, it cannot be a "disproportionate response." Israel is a powerful military force, and must control its firepower when attacking a far weaker entity. Evelyn also essentially blames Israel for the crisis, by keeping the Gazans trapped in a small territory, cutting off their vital resources and creating miserable conditions that produce deep anger and frustration amongst Gaza citizens, forcing many of them to embrace desperate and radical measures. Here is part one of their conversation. Jeff: If the terrible Hitler, after he had exterminated millions of innocent lives, surrounded himself with 1.5 million civilians, and the only way to get to him was to kill many of the civilians, would we be justified in doing so? Evelyn: Well, what if by killing the civilians you in turn created another few thousand Hitlers? Jeff: If they could turn into Hitlers then maybe the best thing to do is to kill them all now. Evelyn: May I submit a second, less bloody option. Make peace with the civilians and have them turn in the Hitler in their midst. Jeff: But what if the civilians were part of creating Hitler in the first place? What if their sentiments against the Jews allowed for a Hitler to rise and come to power and lead his county in a war against the Jews? Evelyn: Then you have to wonder why these civilians feel that way. Why are they so angry against the Jews? Jeff: Are you telling me that it's the fault of the Jews that the Germans and now the Arabs hate them? The Germans did indeed have many "excuses" and "explanation" how the Jews were contaminating their pure Aryan blood, corrupting their financial systems, the cause for all their ruin and humiliation. But we know today that its all boils down to plain anti-Semitism, masked in one form or another. Even if one could find some faults among the Jews - which in itself would be a vulgar indulgence considering the context - does this in any way justify the methodical gassing of men, women and over 1.5 million innocent children?! Evelyn: With all due sensitivity to the Holocaust, I don't think you can compare that to the current situation in the war between Israel and the Palestinians. The Palestinians have lived in this region for hundreds of years. The reason so many of the 1.5 million of them are crammed into the roughly 140 square miles of the Gaza Strip is not due to their choice. They belong to families that came from towns and villages outside Gaza like Ashkelon and Beersheba, that were driven to Gaza by the Israeli Army in 1948. So you can imagine that they harbor much anger and resentment. Many of them may not be ready to aggressively attack Israel and Jews, and many may not even support such attacks, but they sure are profoundly bitter, living in squalid quarters, in ghettos, with all the flow of their resources (water, energy, electricity) being controlled by Israel. So though, Hamas is definitely making life more miserable for the citizens of Gaza with their blatant attacks against Israel, they are being doubly punished by Israel's retaliation, even if it may be justified. Jeff: So what exactly are you suggesting Israel do? Ignore the attacks of Hitler against its citizens, because Hitler is hiding among civilians? Even if they are not to blame, can Israel afford to allow their sworn enemy to impudently continue attacking its people? Especially considering Jewish history, including the silence of the world during the tragic Holocaust, can Israel rely on other nations to fight and protect it from its enemies? And, for the record, did the Israeli Army drive them into Gaza in 1948? Or did five Arab armies attack the fledgling Israel back then and as a result of their loss in a war they initiated, many were forced to flee their homes, as is the case in any war. Additionally, let's explore the innocence of the Gazan civilians. If a majority of a people elect and then choose to accept the rule of a tyrant, do they carry responsibility? Were 100 million Germans culpable in the genocide of the Jews by allowing the climate for its perpetration, or is only Hitler and his immediate subordinates guilty? After all, Hitler, Goebbels, Eichman and so many others may have never shot a Jew. But the entire nation - and many others - were a breeding aground for the Holocaust. And in that sense, they are all guilty. Evelyn: I am sensitive to the Holocaust. One of my parents was a survivor. But I think that it is being exploited to engender sympathy for Israel, at the expense of the Palestinians who were not to blame for the Holocaust. Jeff: You are not hearing what I am saying, Evelyn. I am not pulling the Holocaust "card" nor am I blaming the Palestinians for it (though the Mufti of Jerusalem had a far too cozy relationship with Hitler). I am drawing a parallel of culpability: Even if you were to argue that the majority of the Muslim/Arab world were not anti-Jewish and anti-Israel, the fact remains that from their midst have risen forces that call for the destruction of Israel. And we cannot simply allow them to point fingers at other they have allowed into power, and allow to attack Israel. Evelyn: So, are you suggesting that despite their legitimate grievances, Palestinian civilians have to continue suffering and be killed because they are part of the Hamas problem? Jeff: I too am sensitive to the plight of the Palestinians, and do not justify actions that have made their life so difficult. But two things must be now considered. Even if things in 1948 were done wrong, does that mean that today Israel should not protect innocent lives? The first and primary responsibility of any state is to protect its citizens. We must deal with the current sate of affairs and facts of the ground, and cannot turn the clock back to 1948. Secondly, if you want to go back to the root of things, we need to further explore the roots of Arab rage against Israel and the Jews. Can we say that the majority of the Arab/Muslim world are not anti-Jewish and anti-Israel, but simply have legitimate grievances, and were they remedied they would live in total peace with Israel and the Jewish people? Hatred for Jews and attacks against them precede the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948. The Germans had their "excuses" to despise the Jews and the Muslims have their "excuses." How are you so sure that the root of the hatred is so different? Evelyn: Ok, so let us go back to those roots. But we also have to address the roots of Israeli aggression against the Palestinians. Part two - continued next week. ~~~~~ mlc | Meaningful Life Center www.meaningfullife.com E-mail: wisdomreb at meaningfullife.com. Phone: C Copyright The Meaningful Life Center, 2009. All rights reserved. Our policy is ultimate respect of your privacy. We absolutely do not share your e-mail address with anyone. To subscribe please send a reply e-mail with your request in the subject line stating: "Subscribe." Please e-mail us if you would like to receive our previous articles, or go to www.meaningfullife.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090109/097ba808/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jan 10 22:45:55 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:45:55 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] 'Preparing' for more rockets]] Message-ID: <49697983.2050901@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090111/48b33fa0/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "mhyde" Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] 'Preparing' for more rockets] Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 07:34:42 -0500 Size: 50082 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090111/48b33fa0/attachment.eml From rndavar at aol.com Sun Jan 11 09:30:47 2009 From: rndavar at aol.com (Ross Nichols) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:30:47 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Tribes Message-ID: <534212684-1231687746-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1139560076-@bxe114.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Tonight on Sunday Shul, I will be continuing with my "Restoring Abrahamic Faith" series, based upon the book by James Tabor (www.genesis2000.org). I am in the second class on the "Plan of God". This class is on my favorite subject - the Return of Israel. So I hope you are able to tune in tonight thru audio or video live, but if you can't catch the live class, you will be able to download the podcast. If you are interested in the so-called Lost Tribes of Israel, you will not want to miss this class. Shalom, Ross Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From ptyler at aac-usa.com Sun Jan 11 10:15:08 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:15:08 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Shame! by David A. Harris - The Jerusalem Post In-Reply-To: <025d01c971b5$333413c0$999c3b40$@com> References: <855590370901071856v7fea1de0ib5adf34ed3707cab@mail.gmail.com> <025d01c971b5$333413c0$999c3b40$@com> Message-ID: <00cf01c97407$c7c79a30$5756ce90$@com> https://www.kintera.com/accounttempfiles/account16283/images/jp.logo.480.gif Shame! by David A. Harris Executive Director American Jewish Committee January 11, 2009 There's an interesting juxtaposition this month. As Israel pursues its military operation against Hamas, preparations are under way around the world for Holocaust Remembrance Day on January 27. The two are not disconnected. Israel's policy should be scrutinized like any other state's, and the loss of any innocent life should be mourned. But some of Israel's fiercest critics go far beyond the limits of what might be termed rational debate. They have obscenely tried to turn the Holocaust on its head, portraying Israel as committing Nazi-like crimes-the ultimate libel against the Jewish state. A Catholic cardinal-and leading Vatican official-refers to Gaza as a "concentration camp." A Greek newspaper entices readers with the banner headline "Holocaust," referring to Israel's alleged actions in Gaza. A Brazilian newspaper publishes two cartoons-one of Hitler wearing an armband emblazoned with the Star of David and swastika, saluting, "Heil Israel!"; the other of a Star of David casting a shadow in the form of a swastika over the Gaza Strip. On his website, white supremacist David Duke reacts to the Gaza crisis by lamenting that Hollywood portrays Jews as Holocaust victims rather than perpetrators. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez calls on Venezuela's Jewish community to denounce the "Holocaust" being committed in Gaza. Posters equating the Star of David with the Nazi swastika are ubiquitous at anti-Israel rallies around the world. A demonstrator in Holland confidently asserts that "Anne Frank would be turning over in her grave" if she saw what was happening in Gaza. Shame! Israel seeks to defend itself in a highly complex environment, where the adversary, Hamas, cravenly uses civilians as shields and mosques as armories. For that right to protect its citizens, which any sovereign nation would exercise under similar circumstances, it is labeled as the successor to the demonic force that wiped out two-thirds of European Jewry, including 1.5 million children. How many times does it need to be said? Israel left Gaza in 2005. Israel has repeatedly renounced any territorial ambitions there. Israel gave Gazans the first chance in their history to govern themselves. Israel has a vested interest in a peaceful, prosperous, and developing Gaza. This point cannot be stressed enough. After all, the two are destined to share a common border. Israel has only one overarching concern in Gaza: Does it pose a security threat to neighboring Israel? The answer, tragically, is clear. That was the result of a decision taken in Gaza, not Israel. Hamas was chosen to rule, and choices have consequences. After all, Hamas denies Israel's right to exist. Why were tunnels built across the Egyptian border? What are the Iranian-made Grad missiles going through those tunnels to Gaza meant for? And why are Hamas fighters going through those tunnels in the other direction for training in Iran and Lebanon? More than 10,000 rockets, missiles, and mortars have been fired at southern Israel from Gaza in the past eight years. Towns and villages have lived under constant threat. If some of those projectiles were crude and missed their targets, it was not for lack of trying. Their aim is to kill, maim, and intimidate as many civilians as possible. Everything is fair game-homes, hospitals, schools, playgrounds. The trauma this has created cannot be adequately described. And for what? To "liberate" Gaza? Well, Gaza is already under Hamas, not Israeli, rule. No, more likely, to eventually "liberate" Israel from Israeli rule. But wait. What about all the clergy, cartoonists, protesters, and politicians so concerned about the human rights of those in Gaza? Have they ever uttered a peep while those 10,000 rockets, missiles, and mortars were raining down on southern Israel? Did they ever take to the streets to support the human rights of Israelis? Did they ever read the Hamas Charter and hear the echoes of Mein Kampf and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, two European books that helped to condemn Jews to their death? Did they ever put two and two together and ask what would happen if Hamas married its annihilationist goals with ever more advanced weaponry? And did it occur to them that, yes, nearly six million Israeli Jews would be in the crosshairs? To ask these questions is to answer them, which probably means one of two things. Either the accusers are totally clueless about the Holocaust and, therefore, incapable of understanding why their words and actions are so outrageous. Or they are deliberately manipulating history, distorting the truth, and twisting facts for a larger political purpose. What could that purpose be? Well, for starters, extreme right, extreme left, and radical Islamic groups have found something to agree on-the Holocaust complicates their goals. For the extreme right, by seeking to deny or minimize the Holocaust, the crime of their predecessors, they have tried to burnish their credentials as a "responsible" element in more mainstream society. For the extreme left, the Holocaust is seen as a basis for the subsequent creation of the State of Israel, a nation whose right to exist they single-mindedly deny. And for radical Islamic groups, the Holocaust is regarded as a perennial source of sympathy for Israel, undermining efforts to chip away at its legitimacy. These three movements can't agree on much, but they seem to have a convergent interest in hijacking the Holocaust and using it against Israel. And there are others, especially in Europe, who don't fit into any of these three categories but may have their own Holocaust-related agenda. Perhaps it's an effort to get out from under the moral weight of the genocide. After all, it was the sins of commission by the perpetrators, abetted by the sins of omission on the part of bystanders, that amounted to the Final Solution. How could Europe - especially the Europe that today sees itself as a source of such enlightenment and reason - have been the stage for such a monstrous crime against humanity just a few short decades ago? And, of course, the Europe in which the Holocaust unfolded was a continent already haunted by the crowded presence of Jewish ghosts-victims of centuries of expulsions, pogroms, ghettos, pales of settlement, inquisitions, forced conversions, discriminatory laws, professional restrictions, conspiracy theories, blood libels, and the teaching of contempt. Pinning a swastika on Israel, and, by extension, its supporters, can be unburdening. It allows for a catharsis of the spirit. Given a measure of power, the argument goes, the Jews behave no differently than the Nazis. According to this inverted, not to mention perverted, logic, the only lesson of the Holocaust is to stand up for targeted "victims." And who is that targeted victim today? The Palestinians of Gaza, of course. The Holocaust taught several lessons. This January 27th would be a good time to remind the world of what they are. First, sometimes people mean what they say. Hitler spelled out his ambitions well in advance. Too few took him seriously. Until late in the day, there were those leaders in Europe who believed that he could be reasoned with, that his words were simply hyperbolic, that negotiations were possible, and that compromises could be reached. Is it possible that Hamas and its patron, Iran, actually mean what they say when they speak of a world without Israel? Second, there is such a thing as a just war. War should be the last option, but there are times when it must remain an option. Had the Allied nations not declared war on the Third Reich, how would the world have looked? Mind you, that war was neither "clean" nor "surgical," and Allied leaders were hardly preoccupied with debates over "proportionality." As diplomacy offered no solution and restraint met with no reciprocity, what was Israel supposed to do in the face of Hamas's arms buildup and daily barrage of fire? Simply accept the role of sitting duck so that it might aspire to the moral high ground of victimhood? And third, defenselessness is no strategy. Jews were defenseless against the Nazi onslaught. They had no army, no recourse to weapons, and few who sought to defend them. Jews learned, at high cost, never to permit such vulnerability again. So, as January 27th approaches, and we recall the six million, spare us the lip service and the crocodile tears from those who would accuse Israel of Nazi-like crimes. Remembering dead Jews is important, yes, but protecting living Jews is no less significant. -------------------- To comment on this blog, visit the Jerusalem Post. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090111/f04ec2d6/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 5524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090111/f04ec2d6/attachment.gif From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sun Jan 11 12:22:22 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:22:22 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Shame! by David A. Harris - The Jerusalem Post In-Reply-To: <855590370901071856v7fea1de0ib5adf34ed3707cab@mail.gmail.com><025d01c971b5$333413c0$999c3b40$@com> <00cf01c97407$c7c79a30$5756ce90$@com> References: <855590370901071856v7fea1de0ib5adf34ed3707cab@mail.gmail.com><025d01c971b5$333413c0$999c3b40$@com> <00cf01c97407$c7c79a30$5756ce90$@com> Message-ID: Thank you, Patty!!!! From: Patty Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:15 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Shame! by David A. Harris - The Jerusalem Post Shame! by David A. Harris Executive Director American Jewish Committee January 11, 2009 There's an interesting juxtaposition this month. As Israel pursues its military operation against Hamas, preparations are under way around the world for Holocaust Remembrance Day on January 27. The two are not disconnected. Israel's policy should be scrutinized like any other state's, and the loss of any innocent life should be mourned. But some of Israel's fiercest critics go far beyond the limits of what might be termed rational debate. They have obscenely tried to turn the Holocaust on its head, portraying Israel as committing Nazi-like crimes-the ultimate libel against the Jewish state. A Catholic cardinal-and leading Vatican official-refers to Gaza as a "concentration camp." A Greek newspaper entices readers with the banner headline "Holocaust," referring to Israel's alleged actions in Gaza. A Brazilian newspaper publishes two cartoons-one of Hitler wearing an armband emblazoned with the Star of David and swastika, saluting, "Heil Israel!"; the other of a Star of David casting a shadow in the form of a swastika over the Gaza Strip. On his website, white supremacist David Duke reacts to the Gaza crisis by lamenting that Hollywood portrays Jews as Holocaust victims rather than perpetrators. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez calls on Venezuela's Jewish community to denounce the "Holocaust" being committed in Gaza. Posters equating the Star of David with the Nazi swastika are ubiquitous at anti-Israel rallies around the world. A demonstrator in Holland confidently asserts that "Anne Frank would be turning over in her grave" if she saw what was happening in Gaza. Shame! Israel seeks to defend itself in a highly complex environment, where the adversary, Hamas, cravenly uses civilians as shields and mosques as armories. For that right to protect its citizens, which any sovereign nation would exercise under similar circumstances, it is labeled as the successor to the demonic force that wiped out two-thirds of European Jewry, including 1.5 million children. How many times does it need to be said? Israel left Gaza in 2005. Israel has repeatedly renounced any territorial ambitions there. Israel gave Gazans the first chance in their history to govern themselves. Israel has a vested interest in a peaceful, prosperous, and developing Gaza. This point cannot be stressed enough. After all, the two are destined to share a common border. Israel has only one overarching concern in Gaza: Does it pose a security threat to neighboring Israel? The answer, tragically, is clear. That was the result of a decision taken in Gaza, not Israel. Hamas was chosen to rule, and choices have consequences. After all, Hamas denies Israel's right to exist. Why were tunnels built across the Egyptian border? What are the Iranian-made Grad missiles going through those tunnels to Gaza meant for? And why are Hamas fighters going through those tunnels in the other direction for training in Iran and Lebanon? More than 10,000 rockets, missiles, and mortars have been fired at southern Israel from Gaza in the past eight years. Towns and villages have lived under constant threat. If some of those projectiles were crude and missed their targets, it was not for lack of trying. Their aim is to kill, maim, and intimidate as many civilians as possible. Everything is fair game-homes, hospitals, schools, playgrounds. The trauma this has created cannot be adequately described. And for what? To "liberate" Gaza? Well, Gaza is already under Hamas, not Israeli, rule. No, more likely, to eventually "liberate" Israel from Israeli rule. But wait. What about all the clergy, cartoonists, protesters, and politicians so concerned about the human rights of those in Gaza? Have they ever uttered a peep while those 10,000 rockets, missiles, and mortars were raining down on southern Israel? Did they ever take to the streets to support the human rights of Israelis? Did they ever read the Hamas Charter and hear the echoes of Mein Kampf and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, two European books that helped to condemn Jews to their death? Did they ever put two and two together and ask what would happen if Hamas married its annihilationist goals with ever more advanced weaponry? And did it occur to them that, yes, nearly six million Israeli Jews would be in the crosshairs? To ask these questions is to answer them, which probably means one of two things. Either the accusers are totally clueless about the Holocaust and, therefore, incapable of understanding why their words and actions are so outrageous. Or they are deliberately manipulating history, distorting the truth, and twisting facts for a larger political purpose. What could that purpose be? Well, for starters, extreme right, extreme left, and radical Islamic groups have found something to agree on-the Holocaust complicates their goals. For the extreme right, by seeking to deny or minimize the Holocaust, the crime of their predecessors, they have tried to burnish their credentials as a "responsible" element in more mainstream society. For the extreme left, the Holocaust is seen as a basis for the subsequent creation of the State of Israel, a nation whose right to exist they single-mindedly deny. And for radical Islamic groups, the Holocaust is regarded as a perennial source of sympathy for Israel, undermining efforts to chip away at its legitimacy. These three movements can't agree on much, but they seem to have a convergent interest in hijacking the Holocaust and using it against Israel. And there are others, especially in Europe, who don't fit into any of these three categories but may have their own Holocaust-related agenda. Perhaps it's an effort to get out from under the moral weight of the genocide. After all, it was the sins of commission by the perpetrators, abetted by the sins of omission on the part of bystanders, that amounted to the Final Solution. How could Europe - especially the Europe that today sees itself as a source of such enlightenment and reason - have been the stage for such a monstrous crime against humanity just a few short decades ago? And, of course, the Europe in which the Holocaust unfolded was a continent already haunted by the crowded presence of Jewish ghosts-victims of centuries of expulsions, pogroms, ghettos, pales of settlement, inquisitions, forced conversions, discriminatory laws, professional restrictions, conspiracy theories, blood libels, and the teaching of contempt. Pinning a swastika on Israel, and, by extension, its supporters, can be unburdening. It allows for a catharsis of the spirit. Given a measure of power, the argument goes, the Jews behave no differently than the Nazis. According to this inverted, not to mention perverted, logic, the only lesson of the Holocaust is to stand up for targeted "victims." And who is that targeted victim today? The Palestinians of Gaza, of course. The Holocaust taught several lessons. This January 27th would be a good time to remind the world of what they are. First, sometimes people mean what they say. Hitler spelled out his ambitions well in advance. Too few took him seriously. Until late in the day, there were those leaders in Europe who believed that he could be reasoned with, that his words were simply hyperbolic, that negotiations were possible, and that compromises could be reached. Is it possible that Hamas and its patron, Iran, actually mean what they say when they speak of a world without Israel? Second, there is such a thing as a just war. War should be the last option, but there are times when it must remain an option. Had the Allied nations not declared war on the Third Reich, how would the world have looked? Mind you, that war was neither "clean" nor "surgical," and Allied leaders were hardly preoccupied with debates over "proportionality." As diplomacy offered no solution and restraint met with no reciprocity, what was Israel supposed to do in the face of Hamas's arms buildup and daily barrage of fire? Simply accept the role of sitting duck so that it might aspire to the moral high ground of victimhood? And third, defenselessness is no strategy. Jews were defenseless against the Nazi onslaught. They had no army, no recourse to weapons, and few who sought to defend them. Jews learned, at high cost, never to permit such vulnerability again. So, as January 27th approaches, and we recall the six million, spare us the lip service and the crocodile tears from those who would accuse Israel of Nazi-like crimes. Remembering dead Jews is important, yes, but protecting living Jews is no less significant. -------------------- To comment on this blog, visit the Jerusalem Post. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090111/5de5a4ac/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 5524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090111/5de5a4ac/attachment.gif From ptyler at aac-usa.com Sun Jan 11 12:41:38 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:41:38 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Article: Unusually Large U.S. Weapons Shipment to Israel: Are the US and Israel Planning a Broader Middle East War? Message-ID: <00ed01c9741c$3f07ec80$bd17c580$@com> Unusually Large U.S. Weapons Shipment to Israel: Are the US and Israel Planning a Broader Middle East War? Read the article at http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va &aid=11743 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090111/f512e22a/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Sun Jan 11 13:54:44 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:54:44 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Obamanation - Part 1 Message-ID: <004901c97426$74874090$0400a8c0@marvin> For the last few days since the Gaza war started I have been paying special attention as I'm sure many of you have. After reading Pat's post "Shame", I decided to send this out. Believe it or delete it! I see a trend in the news that has been a little different then before, or many it has always been there I just have not noticed it. Maybe, I have lost my mind from to many hours studying torah, reading praying and thinking about the world we currently live in and where are we headed, as we move rapidly into the future. Most people( I like painting with a broad brush, sometimes) spend more time and energy with sports (all branches) then they do with trying to improve their spiritual being. I guess I started to close to the bottom I just have to work harder to get back to where others already are. :-) Any who, below is my humble opinion of what I am seeing take place.. This last week all of our living presidents got together for a meeting at the WH. Jimmy Carter was interviewed and related that Mr.PEBHO, stated that he was not going to wait till the end of his presidency to start working for a peaceful solution to the problems in the Mideast, like Mr. Clinton and others, he was going to start as soon as he was in office. The following notes I gather for myself in my study last week. My comments are in ( - ). In the field of religion, you can eat from one end of the spectrum to the other, cafeteria style, food bar, find God were you want in any flavor, form or perspective. After many years of study and many hours, I still can not get away from the Torah as the foundation. Torah can be five books, or as defined in its broadest terms. If God (Hashem, YHVH) can't be found in the Torah... There ain't no God. As one of my teachers use to say, I don't claim to be infallible, only informative. I can't help but remember this verse Heb 10:25 not abandoning [or, neglecting] the assembling together of ourselves, as [is the] habit of some, _but_ encouraging [one another], and so much more as you* see the Day approaching. Does this reach the level to be classified as an Obamanation? If you have not read PTyler's post about the Biden remark of a "generated crisis" you need to go back and take a stare. A report about S. Power an adviser and friend to Mr. PEBHO, is pasted below. Take a little time to research who these players are and draw your on conclusions. Spend a couple of hours reading and listening to Power's speeches and writings. Samantha Power (born September 21, 1970, in Dungarvan , Waterford , Ireland ) is an Irish American journalist, writer, and academic. She is currently affiliated with the Carr Center for Human Rights Policy at Harvard University 's Kennedy School of Government . Power has been a winner of the Pulitzer Prize and was a senior adviser to U.S. Democratic Party presidential candidate Barack Obama until March 2008 when she resigned, later rejoining the Obama State Department transition team in late November 2008. (The reason she resigned) --- She served as a senior foreign policy adviser to Obama's 2008 presidential campaign until she was forced to resign for referring to Hillary Clinton as "a monster". Power apologized for the remarks made in an interview with The Scotsman in London, and resigned from the campaign shortly thereafter. ....she attended Harvard Law School , graduating in 1999. Her first book, A Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide, grew out of a paper she wrote in law school. (Power is laying the ground work for the connection between genocide and "unintended" and "collateral" damage ) The book won the Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction in 2003. It offers a survey of the origin of the word genocide, the major genocides of the 20th century, as well as an analysis of some of the underlying reasons for the persistent failure of governments and the international community to collectively identify, recognize and then respond effectively to genocides ranging from the Armenian Genocide to the Rwandan Genocide . This work and related writings have been criticized by the historian Howard Zinn for downplaying the importance of "unintended" and "collateral" civilian deaths that could be classified as genocidal[1] ; There is a larger article on genocide if your interested, however below is how genocide is define by the UN? Definition of genocide: Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide >From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Article 2 of the Convention defines genocide as ...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part , a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. - Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2[2] Article 3 defines the crimes that can be punished under the convention: : (a) Genocide; (b) Conspiracy to commit genocide; (c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide; (d) Attempt to commit genocide; (e) Complicity in genocide. - Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 3[2] In January 2008, Power began dating the prominent law professor Cass Sunstein whom she met while working on the Obama campaign.[5] On July 4, 2008, they married. ( short term relationship.. could this be a political marriage, a marriage for convenience - red flag) Alongside her advocacy for Barack Obama's candidacy, Power is best known for her efforts to increase awareness with regard to genocide and human rights abuses, particularly the Darfur conflict. In 2006, she contributed to Screamers , a movie about the Darfur , Armenian , and other genocides of the 20th and 21st centuries. Power has become a leading voice calling for armed intervention into humanitarian crisis situations, endorsing the Genocide Intervention Network and becoming a founding Board member. Regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict , Power said in 2002, that if she were an advisor to the U.S. President she would recommend investing "billions of dollars, not in servicing Israel's military, but actually investing in the new state of Palestine, in investing the billions of dollars it would probably take, also, to support what will have to be a mammoth protection force [in Palestine], not of the old Rwanda kind, but a meaningful military presence", even though this may alienate "a domestic constituency of tremendous political and financial import". (Power is now an advisor to Obama and married to Cass Sunstein. It has been reported that Power gets amble face time with Obama. - Do not tell me you never talk to your spouse about work) After the 2008 presidential election , Powers returned to Obama's team, and currently is a member of the transition team . She is working on Department of State . It is unclear if Power will get a position in department. (regardless if she gets a position, she is a close friend and advisor) * This page (were information was taken) was last modified on 1 January 2009, at 14:44. according to Wikipedia. Headline News Sunday, November 30, 2008 Israel Today Staff Obama rehires advisor who wants to invade Israel US President-elect Barack Obama's transition website reveals that he has rehired a former advisor who once advocated an American invasion of Israel in order to impose a peace deal on the Jewish state and the Palestinians. Samantha Power will serve on the State Department National Security Team when Obama takes office in January, again raising the eyebrows of Israel's supporters in the US. During the Democratic Party primary campaign Obama was blasted for having Power on his team by those pointed to a disturbing interview she gave in 2000. In the interview with Harry Kreisler of the Institute for International Studies at Berkeley, Power suggests that the "Israel Lobby" controls US foreign policy, accuses Israel of widespread human rights violations and recommends invading Israel with a "mammoth protection force" to impose a peace agreement. Continued in Part 2. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090111/86d5a6c7/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Sun Jan 11 13:59:03 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:59:03 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Obamanation - Part 2 Message-ID: <005d01c97427$0f6f78c0$0400a8c0@marvin> This was reported by Reuters and ran at the Washington Post. Reuters Thursday, January 8, 2009; 7:17 AM WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The incoming administration of President-elect Barack Obama will name Cass Sunstein, a Harvard Law School professor who pioneered efforts to design regulation around the ways people behave, as regulatory czar, the Wall Street Journal reported. A report on WSJ.com said Sunstein would head the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, overseeing "regulations throughout the government, from the Environmental Protection Agency to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration." ( remember the Red Flag ) It get's more interesting. One could say that we are weaving a web that has no substance to it.. But, it is what it is!! Obama to 'Open Channel of Communication' with Hamas Tevet 13, 5769, 09 January 09 11:27 by Hana Levi Julian Israli National News (IsraelNN.com) Incoming U.S. President Barack Obama plans to open a "channel of communication" with the Hamas terrorist organization when he takes office on January 20, according to British newspaper the Guardian. According to three sources "close to the transition team," Obama was unlikely to approve direct talks with Hamas initially. However, reported the Guardian, Obama "is being urged by advisers ( hint - their initials start with SP) to initiate low-level or clandestine approaches, and there is growing recognition in Washington that the policy of ostracizing Hamas is counterproductive. A tested course would be to start contacts through Hamas and the US intelligence services, similar to the secret process through which the US engaged with the PLO in the 1970s. Israel did not become aware of the contacts until much later." Steve Clemons, director of the American Strategy Program at the New America Foundation, said frankly that "The total isolation of Hamas that we promulgated under Bush is going to end." Clemons added that the Obama team would most likely consider a multilateral approach that involves secret envoys talking simultaneously with various parties. "I think it is going to happen." Hamas is officially listed by the U.S. State Department as a terrorist organization, and the Congress in 2006 legally banned any funding to the group. Financial assistance has, however, made its way to Hamas through the Fatah faction, which has paid its workers who live in Gaza by transferring funds to Gaza-based banks. Monies in Gaza banks are often seized by Hamas. Fatah received millions of dollars in funding, equipment and new weapons both from the U.S. and other Western nations after the two factions split the Palestinian Authority government following the militia war that ended in Hamas seizing control of Gaza in June 2007. (someone remind me ---- America is a friend to Israel correct.!? Why is the "U.S. and other Western nations" supplying Hamas and Fatah? Do they not have enough friends in the Arab, Palestinian, Muslim world?) Latest news 1/9/2009 GENEVA - The U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights called Friday for an independent war crimes investigation in Gaza after reports that Israeli forces shelled a house full of Palestinian civilians, killing 30 people. Navi Pillay told an emergency meeting of the U.N. Human Rights Council that the harm to Israeli civilians caused by Hamas rockets was unacceptable, but did not excuse any abuses carried out by Israeli forces in response. Pillay went further in an interview with the British Broadcasting Corp., saying an incident in Gaza City this week "appears to have all the elements of war crimes." (refer back to: - Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2) The U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs said Israeli troops evacuated Palestinian civilians to a house in the Zeitoun neighborhood on Jan. 4, then shelled the building 24 hours later. The U.N. agency said 110 people were in the house, according to testimony from four witnesses. On Thursday, the international Red Cross said the Israeli army refused rescuers permission to reach wounded people in the neighborhood for four days. Israel said the delay was caused by fighting in the area. Pillay told the Geneva-based rights council that all parties to the conflict had a duty to care for the wounded and avoid targeting health workers, hospitals and ambulances. Violations of international humanitarian law (insert Genocide here) may amount to war crimes for which individuals should be held accountable, she said. The 47-member council, which is dominated by Arab and African countries, is debating a resolution condemning Israel for its actions in Gaza. The motion could be delayed until Monday. I'm not making this stuff up, Israel is in trouble. I have no insight other then wanting to understand the events in Israel and what is happening in our world. Slowly there is a case being made in the public forum that's linking Israel with genocide. We are indeed living in interesting times. Listen--- can you hear the footsteps of Messiah. Do not believe that our elected repersentives will follow the will of the people, In the last 8 years, the will of the people has failed to restrain the will of our elected leaders. Last night before I went to bed, it was reported that a story came out with Israel being linked to the Word "Holocaust", not as a victim, but as an instigator of a "holocaust". One article even went as far as to report that Israel had turned Gaza into a "Death camp". Isa 66:18 For I know their works and their thoughts; the time cometh, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and shall see My glory. Joe 3:1 (4:1) For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring back the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, Joe 3:2 (4:2) I will gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat; and I will enter into judgment with them there for My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and divided My land. Zep 3:7 I said: 'Surely thou wilt fear Me, thou wilt receive correction; so her dwelling shall not be cut off, despite all that I have visited upon her'; but they betimes corrupted all their doings. Zep 3:8 Therefore wait ye for Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey; for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger; for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy. This may not be the time in history for these things to happen, but "wait ye for Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey; Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;..... Praying for the peace of Yerusalem! Marvin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090111/2c647789/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sun Jan 11 19:31:13 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:31:13 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Tonight's teaching Message-ID: Ross, thank you so much. I got in late tonight and missed a lot of tonight's teaching, but I will go back and listen to it again. What I did hear was so wonderful and so appreciated. ~Pat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090111/5b52bd95/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Mon Jan 12 07:29:48 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:29:48 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] HAARETZ - Pentagon denies arms shipment to Israel linked to Gaza fighting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <015301c974b9$d8b1ea00$8a15be00$@com> Last update - 23:29 10/01/2009 http://wa-be1.www.haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif http://wa-be1.www.haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif http://wa-be1.www.haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif http://wa-be1.www.haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif Pentagon denies arms shipment to Israel linked to Gaza fighting http://wa-be1.www.haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif By Reuters http://wa-be1.www.haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif The U.S. military has sought to hire a merchant ship to deliver ammunition to Israel this month, tender documents show, but the Pentagon said the shipment was not linked to the conflict in the Gaza Strip. A Pentagon spokesman said the ammunition was for a U.S. stockpile in Israel. The U.S. military pre-positions stockpiles in some countries in case it needs supplies at short notice. In the tender documents, the U.S. Navy's Military Sealift Command (MSC) said the ship was to carry 325 standard 20-foot containers of what is listed as "ammunition" on two separate journeys from the Greek port of Astakos to the Israeli port of Ashdod in mid-to-late January. Air Force Lt. Col. Patrick Ryder, a Pentagon spokesman, said he would not comment on shipping routes for security reasons but confirmed a shipment of ammunition to Israel was planned. "The delivery of ammunition is to a pre-positioned U.S. munitions stockpile in Israel in accordance with a congressionally authorized 1990 agreement between the U.S. and Israel," Ryder said. "This previously scheduled shipment is routine and not in support of the current situation in Gaza." The shipment originated in the United States, Ryder said. He provided no further details on the intended cargo. A "hazardous material" designation on the manifest mentions explosive substances and detonators but gives no other details. The request for the ship was made on Dec. 31, with the first leg of the charter to arrive no later than Jan. 25 and the second at the end of the month. The tender for the vessel follows the hiring of a commercial ship to carry a much larger consignment of ordnance in December. A German shipping firm which won that tender confirmed the order when contacted by Reuters but declined to comment further. In September, the U.S. Congress approved the sale of 1,000 bunker-buster missiles to Israel. The GPS-guided GBU-39 is said to be one of the most accurate bombs in the world. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054236.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 167 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090112/983faf60/attachment-0002.png -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 168 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090112/983faf60/attachment-0003.png From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Mon Jan 12 08:47:43 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:47:43 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Obamanation - Part 2 In-Reply-To: <005d01c97427$0f6f78c0$0400a8c0@marvin> References: <005d01c97427$0f6f78c0$0400a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: Arutz Sheva - IsraelNationalNews.com This is very informative, Marv. Thank you. (I too find Powers' attitude toward Israel beyond disturbing.) ~Pat From: mhyde Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 2:59 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Obamanation - Part 2 This was reported by Reuters and ran at the Washington Post. Reuters Thursday, January 8, 2009; 7:17 AM WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The incoming administration of President-elect Barack Obama will name Cass Sunstein, a Harvard Law School professor who pioneered efforts to design regulation around the ways people behave, as regulatory czar, the Wall Street Journal reported. A report on WSJ.com said Sunstein would head the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, overseeing "regulations throughout the government, from the Environmental Protection Agency to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration." ( remember the Red Flag ) It get's more interesting. One could say that we are weaving a web that has no substance to it.. But, it is what it is!! Obama to 'Open Channel of Communication' with Hamas Tevet 13, 5769, 09 January 09 11:27 by Hana Levi Julian Israli National News (IsraelNN.com) Incoming U.S. President Barack Obama plans to open a "channel of communication" with the Hamas terrorist organization when he takes office on January 20, according to British newspaper the Guardian. According to three sources "close to the transition team," Obama was unlikely to approve direct talks with Hamas initially. However, reported the Guardian, Obama "is being urged by advisers ( hint - their initials start with SP) to initiate low-level or clandestine approaches, and there is growing recognition in Washington that the policy of ostracizing Hamas is counterproductive. A tested course would be to start contacts through Hamas and the US intelligence services, similar to the secret process through which the US engaged with the PLO in the 1970s. Israel did not become aware of the contacts until much later." Steve Clemons, director of the American Strategy Program at the New America Foundation, said frankly that "The total isolation of Hamas that we promulgated under Bush is going to end." Clemons added that the Obama team would most likely consider a multilateral approach that involves secret envoys talking simultaneously with various parties. "I think it is going to happen." Hamas is officially listed by the U.S. State Department as a terrorist organization, and the Congress in 2006 legally banned any funding to the group. Financial assistance has, however, made its way to Hamas through the Fatah faction, which has paid its workers who live in Gaza by transferring funds to Gaza-based banks. Monies in Gaza banks are often seized by Hamas. Fatah received millions of dollars in funding, equipment and new weapons both from the U.S. and other Western nations after the two factions split the Palestinian Authority government following the militia war that ended in Hamas seizing control of Gaza in June 2007. (someone remind me ---- America is a friend to Israel correct.!? Why is the "U.S. and other Western nations" supplying Hamas and Fatah? Do they not have enough friends in the Arab, Palestinian, Muslim world?) Latest news 1/9/2009 GENEVA - The U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights called Friday for an independent war crimes investigation in Gaza after reports that Israeli forces shelled a house full of Palestinian civilians, killing 30 people. Navi Pillay told an emergency meeting of the U.N. Human Rights Council that the harm to Israeli civilians caused by Hamas rockets was unacceptable, but did not excuse any abuses carried out by Israeli forces in response. Pillay went further in an interview with the British Broadcasting Corp., saying an incident in Gaza City this week "appears to have all the elements of war crimes." (refer back to: - Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2) The U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs said Israeli troops evacuated Palestinian civilians to a house in the Zeitoun neighborhood on Jan. 4, then shelled the building 24 hours later. The U.N. agency said 110 people were in the house, according to testimony from four witnesses. On Thursday, the international Red Cross said the Israeli army refused rescuers permission to reach wounded people in the neighborhood for four days. Israel said the delay was caused by fighting in the area. Pillay told the Geneva-based rights council that all parties to the conflict had a duty to care for the wounded and avoid targeting health workers, hospitals and ambulances. Violations of international humanitarian law (insert Genocide here) may amount to war crimes for which individuals should be held accountable, she said. The 47-member council, which is dominated by Arab and African countries, is debating a resolution condemning Israel for its actions in Gaza. The motion could be delayed until Monday. I'm not making this stuff up, Israel is in trouble. I have no insight other then wanting to understand the events in Israel and what is happening in our world. Slowly there is a case being made in the public forum that's linking Israel with genocide. We are indeed living in interesting times. Listen--- can you hear the footsteps of Messiah. Do not believe that our elected repersentives will follow the will of the people, In the last 8 years, the will of the people has failed to restrain the will of our elected leaders. Last night before I went to bed, it was reported that a story came out with Israel being linked to the Word "Holocaust", not as a victim, but as an instigator of a "holocaust". One article even went as far as to report that Israel had turned Gaza into a "Death camp". Isa 66:18 For I know their works and their thoughts; the time cometh, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and shall see My glory. Joe 3:1 (4:1) For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring back the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, Joe 3:2 (4:2) I will gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat; and I will enter into judgment with them there for My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and divided My land. Zep 3:7 I said: 'Surely thou wilt fear Me, thou wilt receive correction; so her dwelling shall not be cut off, despite all that I have visited upon her'; but they betimes corrupted all their doings. Zep 3:8 Therefore wait ye for Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey; for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger; for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy. This may not be the time in history for these things to happen, but "wait ye for Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey; Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;..... Praying for the peace of Yerusalem! Marvin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090112/1d077a8f/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 04:46:47 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 02:46:47 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Hamas in their own words Message-ID: <855590370901130246y1dc7d84egc54aba85cdae2585@mail.gmail.com> Click here: A MEMRI Guide to the Middle East - HAMAS IN THEIR OWN VOICES - VIRAL VIDEO These scum are totally serious, and we don't seem to 'get it.' Judah AND Ephraim...... * Hanoch* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090113/3dd33cc7/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Tue Jan 13 07:32:21 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:32:21 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] New Tabor Blog Message-ID: <5574CCE2-01BE-43B8-AFD7-2629FF2E2A1C@earthlink.net> Through the good graces of our friend Brian I have just begun a new Blog (yes, titled TaborBlog), which you can find now at http://jamestabor.com/blog . I just put up a new post Apocalypse Now that I think many might find quite fascinating...I have archived the main substantive posts from the JesusDynasty Blog on the new site, and recently put up a new post on Masada as well. Check it out if you like... If you go to the new Splash Page you can find all my current academic Blogs at one place, so you might want to bookmark: http://jamestabor.com For now I am keeping genesis2000.org for Restoring Abrahamic Faith and the unitedisrael.org separate--sort of like my "other hat" I wear. Best to all, James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090113/fef4d030/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 08:04:33 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:04:33 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] We Jews Love Life: A Tribute to Dvir Emanuelof, H"YD Message-ID: <855590370901130604t58bb0509ld21aa0977f156477@mail.gmail.com> A heartbreaking piece, but worth pushing yourself through it... * Hanoch* *We Jews Love Life: **A Tribute to Dvir Emanuelof* January 12, 2009 Israel is a small country, but when it goes to war, the front is extraordinarily broad. On Sunday of last week, it reached "Gan Dalia," the kindergarten my five-year-old son David attends in the Ramot neighborhood of Jerusalem. That morning, officers of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) came looking for veteran head teacher Dalia Emanuelof. She was off that day, so they continued searching elsewhere, ultimately waiting outside her home in the nearby suburb of Givat Ze'ev until she returned that afternoon. The news the officers brought was unbearable: Her 22-year-old son, Dvir, had been killed in Jabalya, making him the first Israeli casualty of the ground campaign in Gaza. Fighting there as a staff sergeant in his infantry unit, the elite Golani brigade, he was felled by Hamas mortar fire. Though Israel has a conscript army, Dvir did not have to be in Gaza, as he had received high marks as instructor of a squad leader course, was asked to go to officer school, and would still have been in training had he accepted; he deferred, however, saying he would not be fit to command until he had first fought alongside his comrades. In fact, Dvir did not have to be in any front-line position: His father Netanel had died of cancer at age 46, shortly before Dvir's service began; as an only son in a single-parent family, Dvir was exempt under IDF rules from combat duty. Before accepting him to Golani, his commanding officer visited Dalia and asked if she acquiesced in her son's opting for a dangerous path he was not obligated to choose. Her answer: "If this is how Dvir wants to serve his country, then this is what he will do." Two days before entering Gaza, Dvir had called home and said: "Mom, I have to fight. I have to be there." He went, and he fought?and was buried on Sunday night in the Mount Herzl military cemetery in Jerusalem. A few days later, I was thinking about Dvir as I prepared to speak at an Israel solidarity rally at the Ramaz high school in Manhattan. I opened by talking about Dvir's words to his mother, and then explained why he *had* to fight?that is, why Israel had no choice but to wage war to stop Hamas from firing missiles at homes and schools in Sderot and other cities in the country's south. After describing Israel's war aims, I addressed the issue on the minds of these morally sensitive young people: How we could be sure that, in the pursuit of moral ends, Israel was using moral means? I stressed the lengths to which the IDF goes to protect Palestinian civilians, and contrasted it with Hamas's systematic strategy of using non-combatants?women, children, even hospital patients?as "human shields," to prevent the Israeli army from attacking its fighters or to saddle the Jewish state with the blame for the civilians who are killed. Afterwards, I fielded questions from seniors in one of Ramaz's honors classes, of which the most difficult was posed by an earnest young woman named Julie. She accepted that Israel was right to launch an offensive and was fighting in accordance with the dictates of morality, but was deeply concerned about the outcome: If Hamas was eager for Palestinian non-combatants to be killed, while the IDF did its best to prevent such casualties, how could Israel hope to win? Either the Israeli army would be deterred from landing the blows needed to defeat Hamas, or Israel would end up killing large numbers of civilians and be forced by international pressure to accept a cease-fire prematurely?which would be perceived as a Hamas victory, on the model of Hizbollah's "triumph by surviving" in the Second Lebanon War. She offered a chillingly apt understanding of the statement made in 2004 by Hizbollah Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah and later echoed by many Hamas leaders: "We have discovered how to hit the Jews where they are the most vulnerable?.We are going to win, because they love life and we love death." Nasrallah had meant that the Jews loved their own lives while Muslim radicals embraced death in the pursuit of *jihad*, but in Gaza, it turned out that Jews also cared more for the lives of Arab civilians than did the leaders of Hamas. I answered, haltingly, on the level of tactics, pointing out that the IDF's detailed intelligence and precise execution enabled it to limit the bulk of Palestinian casualties to Hamas fighters, and that international condemnation of Israel has been kept in check by widespread revulsion at the use of human shields. The question was still on my mind when I landed at Ben-Gurion Airport the next morning and headed to a *shiva* visit at the Emanuelofs. The first floor was overflowing with well-wishers, some sitting and most standing, centered around Dalia, her three daughters, and the general in charge of Israel's ground forces, Avi Mizrahi, who in an extraordinary gesture of respect was making a condolence visit in the midst of war. Due to his rare combination of gentleness and determination, he became, with Dalia, the center of attention, and the two engaged in a dialogue interspersed with occasional comments from Dalia's eldest daughter, Hadas, who got married less than a year ago and was visibly pregnant with the family's first grandchild >From this dialogue, an extraordinary portrait emerged of Dvir?a modest, idealistic young man who was a leader in the Bnei Akiva youth movement, delighted in taking his friends on hikes throughout Israel, and could never be found without his trademark smile, which radiated out from his sparkling eyes and lit up everyone around him?a point amply attested to in the photos displayed in the Emanuelofs' home. He loved life, with a passion, but was willing to risk his own because he felt a sense of mission to protect Israelis living in the country's south. Dalia, too, was heroic in her own, quiet way. On her face and in her voice one could discern profound sadness, but also pride in her son and the army in which he served, and resolve that Israel must continue to fight until victory. One could also detect a spirit of hope, bordering on faith, that her people would triumph?and that, as Jews traditionally say, *Netzach Yisrael lo yishaker*, the Eternal One of Israel will not fail us. Equally extraordinary was the picture Dalia painted of the support her family had received. She spoke of two teenage girls who came to her home, and when asked how they had known Dvir, answered that they had never met him but identified with the family's tragedy and wanted to give whatever comfort they could; of a middle-aged man who said only, 'I'm a citizen of Israel, and I came to be with you, as a representative of all of Israel's citizens;' of an elderly gentleman who walked in leaning on a cane, and declared: "I heard that a *Golanchik* (young Golani soldier) in your family was killed; I fought in Golani in the War of Independence in 1948, and have come to offer my condolences." She described a phone call from a woman she didn't know, who had just had a grandson and wanted permission to name him Dvir. Dalia assented, but urged that he be given a second name, as Jewish tradition says that in calling someone after a person who has suffered an unfortunate fate, one should make this change to symbolize the hope for better fortune. The grandmother answered that the boy's name would be Dvir Chai?"Dvir lives." And Dalia concluded the story: "A few days after my son had been killed, I could already say again, 'Dvir lives.'" At one point, Dalia turned to General Mizrahi and asked why Israel could not fight in Gaza the way coalition forces have in Iraq and Afghanistan?bombing aggressively against enemy fighters in populated areas. There was no bitterness in her voice at the IDF for having endangered her son's life by its regard for Palestinian civilians, nor any desire for revenge?only the concerned tones of an Israeli mother anxious to protect the sons of other Israeli mothers. The general answered thoughtfully, but without hesitation, that the IDF had gone to greater lengths to protect its soldiers in Gaza than in previous conflicts, citing the week-long air campaign that preceded the ground invasion. He added, however, that the IDF's strength is integrally tied to maintaining its humanity and morality. Soldiers are united in part because they know that regardless of religious or political differences, they share a common moral code. Alluding to the widely-held view that Hamas's military leadership is hiding under Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, he said that he wouldn't give an order to bomb the hospital from the air, because there are certain things one simply doesn't do. This is an obligation, he stressed, that the IDF has as a Jewish army. From the reactions in the room, it was clear that while everyone identified with Dalia's question, they accepted the answer?and were impressed that the officer used this opportunity to reinforce the Jewish values binding all of us together. As I left to return home before the start of the Sabbath, I understood the answer to the question I had been asked by a young woman 6,000 miles away. Yes, on the tactical level it can be a handicap to love life when your opponent loves death. But in the end, it is that love of life that will enable us to prevail. We will defeat those who love death, because we love life so much that we Israelis?from teenage girls to senior officers in wartime?know how to give comfort to those who have lost a loved one, and to say, "We are with you." Our love of life enables us to confront tragedy, and emerge with the pride and resolve, the hope and the faith, that Dalia showed. We love life so much that we educate our children to love life, though surrounded by enemies who hope, pray, and work for our deaths. It is this love of life that enabled the Jews to return to our homeland and rebuild a state after 2,000 years, and it is the sense of mission stemming from this love that will sustain the Zionist dream long into the future. We love life so much that we refuse to have our sense of morality dulled by enemies who seek to force us to kill women and children in order to defend our families. Though our principles limit the IDF's effectiveness, they provide us with intangibles that more than compensate?the confidence and the strength to pursue our aims secure in the knowledge we are acting justly, and the unity that comes from a society acting in accordance with its most cherished values. And yes, let no one err, we will win because we love life so much we are willing to brave death, if necessary, to ensure that our people can lead free lives in the country we have established against all odds. In the end, it is this love of life that will enable us to prevail?not only in the war in Gaza, but in all the challenges we face in the years and generations to come. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090113/8aa031a4/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jan 13 09:01:07 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:01:07 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] New Tabor Blog In-Reply-To: <5574CCE2-01BE-43B8-AFD7-2629FF2E2A1C@earthlink.net> References: <5574CCE2-01BE-43B8-AFD7-2629FF2E2A1C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Had a bit of time to read this morning, and spent it on the TaborBlog. Am so glad I had this opportunity. Of special interest to me was the section about Mariamne. That unusual name is apparently being proven to refer rather exclusively in antiquity to Mary Magdelene! This is quite amazing, especially as the name is then found in none other than the purported "Jesus Tomb!" .........The plot is most definitely thickening!!!!! Thank you so much, James, for alerting us to this marvelous blog! Pat From: James Tabor Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:32 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] New Tabor Blog Through the good graces of our friend Brian I have just begun a new Blog (yes, titled TaborBlog), which you can find now at http://jamestabor.com/blog. I just put up a new post Apocalypse Now that I think many might find quite fascinating...I have archived the main substantive posts from the JesusDynasty Blog on the new site, and recently put up a new post on Masada as well. Check it out if you like... If you go to the new Splash Page you can find all my current academic Blogs at one place, so you might want to bookmark: http://jamestabor.com For now I am keeping genesis2000.org for Restoring Abrahamic Faith and the unitedisrael.org separate--sort of like my "other hat" I wear. Best to all, James -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090113/01896781/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Tue Jan 13 11:16:45 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:16:45 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Important Article Message-ID: <1F2FCD9E-4D90-4D10-B33E-90471795411B@earthlink.net> This is an important article in the current climate... James Tabor Guess Who Cares about Dead Palestinians? Jews! By Dennis Prager http://www.JewishWorldReview.com | For those individuals ? such as nearly all members of the world news media ? who, in light of Israel's invasion of Gaza ? see moral equivalence between Israel and the Palestinians, here are some clarifying thoughts. First, it would be difficult nearly to the point of impossibility, to find Israeli or other Jews who celebrate the deaths of Palestinian civilians. Jews both within and outside of Israel cringe when they see pictures of dead Palestinian men, women, and children in Gaza. For thousands of years at their Passover seders, Jews have removed wine from their cups to ceremonially weep for the Egyptians ? their erstwhile slave owners for 400 years ? who died during the Jews exodus. Jews have never stopped weeping for enemies. The opposite is the case with the large majority of Palestinians. It would be quite difficult to find many Palestinians who do not celebrate the deaths of Israeli Jews or non-Israeli Jews. This is not only reflected in Palestinian polls that show majority support for terrorism ? and terrorism means killing innocent Jews ? it is also reflected in Palestinian media, Palestinian schools, and Palestinian mosques that routinely glorify murderers of Jews, and refer to all Jews as monkeys and the like. Take for example, Palestinian reaction to the 2001 Palestinian terror bombing of a Jerusalem Sbarro pizzeria in which 15 Jews, five of whom were two sets of parents and their children, were murdered and an additional 130 people were injured, some permanently maimed. As reported by the Associated Press, a month later, Palestinian university students opened an exhibition that included a grisly re- enactment of that mass murder. The students built a replica of the Sbarro pizzeria, with fake blood, splattered pizza, a plastic hand dangling from the ceiling, and a fake severed leg wearing jeans and a bloody black sneaker. The exhibit also includes a large rock in front of a mannequin wearing the black hat, black jacket and black trousers typically worn by fervently-Orthodox Jews. A recording from inside the rock calls out: O believer, there is a Jewish man behind me. Come and kill him, paraphrasing a verse in the Koran. It became a popular tourist attraction for Palestinians, to which Palestinian parents took their little children. Here's the question: Can anyone even imagine Jews, in Israel or anywhere else on earth ? no matter how right-wing they are politically or religiously ? doing something analogous to celebrate the death of Palestinian civilians? I have spoken to Jewish groups on both U.S. coasts since the Israeli invasion of Gaza, and when the subject of Palestinian civilian deaths is mentioned, all I hear is regret and sadness. This moral chasm that separates Israel from its enemies, and separates the Jews from their enemies, merely confirms what Hamas repeatedly says about itself: We love death more than the Jews love life. This motto is so true that Hamas not only doesn't weep for dead Israelis, it doesn't weep for dead Palestinians. It uses living Palestinians as human shields and uses dead Palestinians as propaganda. The moral disequilibrium is such that Jews weep for dead Palestinian far more than Hamas does. The second point to be raised is about perspective. If during World War II, Western news media had reported German and Japanese civilian casualties in the same detail and with the same sympathy they report Palestinian civilian casualties in Gaza, it is doubtful that the Nazis and the Japanese militarists would have lost that war. Certainly, at the very least, the anti-Nazi, anti-Fascist war effort would have been severely compromised. The analogy is entirely apt. Hamas is on the same moral level as the two World War II enemies. Do those who condemn Israel for its attacks on Hamas fighters that have tragically resulted in hundreds of civilian Palestinian deaths also condemn the Allied bombings of German and Japanese military targets that resulted in far more civilian deaths? I suspect not since most critics of Israel still regard World War II as a moral war. The overriding issue, therefore, is whether fighting Hamas is moral. If it is, then the unintended death of Palestinian civilians is a tragedy, not an evil (except on the part of Hamas, because it situates its fighters and its missiles among civilians, including schools). Third, if Hamas had the same ability to bomb Israel as Israel has to bomb Gaza, would the number of Jewish civilians be in the hundreds? Or would there be the Holocaust in Israel that Hamas and its Iranian sponsors dream of? The answer is so obvious that this consideration alone renders moral Israel's war to destroy Hamas. In a short period of time Hamas will have more accurate missiles and longer-range ones. One of them could kill a thousand or more. Another one could destroy passenger planes coming into Ben-Gurion Airport, thereby causing foreign airlines to stop flying into Israel. It is that inevitability that Israel is fighting to prevent. But in the morally confused world we live in, only with thousands of Israelis dead, would Israel's invasion of Gaza be proportional, and therefore acceptable. But Israel is more interested in living with world condemnation than in dying with world sympathy. JWR contributor Dennis Prager hosts a national daily radio show based in Los Angeles. He the author of, most recently, "Happiness is a Serious Problem". Click here to comment on this column. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090113/a19bec4a/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: prager.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18120 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090113/a19bec4a/attachment.jpg From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 11:55:24 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:55:24 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Important Article In-Reply-To: <1F2FCD9E-4D90-4D10-B33E-90471795411B@earthlink.net> References: <1F2FCD9E-4D90-4D10-B33E-90471795411B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <855590370901130955v49c41ad7n84fad870f6feb9ce@mail.gmail.com> Shalom James, This is an important article, although it's unlikely that we're thinking about it the exact same way. My remarks are directly outward - not to you. I wish Prager were here, so I could introduce myself to him; *the first Jew he's ever met who is NOT upset when I see pictures of dead Arabs*(whom he refers to as 'Palestinians' - if there every WAS an Arab country by that name what were its borders? It's currency? It's form of government? etc...) What upsets ME? When I hear of young Jewish boys being gunned down as they try to avoid "collateral damage" and risk their lives. My friend Mark Robinson lost his son in Jenin a number of years ago, early on in the Oslo War doing just that. How many people did the U.S. kill in the bombings of Afghanistan? What about the number the Russians slaughtered in Chechnya? Did ANYONE care? And it would be laughable if he wasn't so absurd that we ritualize with sadness the deaths of our enemies. HA! How many Holocaust survivors do you know "...weep for their enemies.." - the Nazis who destroyed their families? I haven't yet met a single one....He is SO WRONG.... And let the spineless world (and American Jews) condemn Israel - screw them! (I'd prefer to use more 'colorful' language) Where were they FOR YEARS when rockets slammed into Israel? For the world, the Jews are held to a higher standard....I say, I would rather be alive and have the world hate me every day, then have them have even 1 minute of a memorial program for us.... Don't misunderstand, I don't believe Israel will fight to WIN, they will fight for a ceasefire, and have foreign troops stand there while Hamas rearms, just like Hizbollah did 2.5 years ago. At the end, Prager begins to make sense, but he still feels it's a "tragedy" when those kids get killed. Are those the same kids being trained (and sent by their parents!) to be suicide bombers??? Do you know the kind of education they get?? Push them *all *across the Egyptian border, into Sinai (lots of room!), restore Gaza to its rightful owners. Jewish blood isn't cheap any longer... Hanoch On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:16 AM, James Tabor wrote: > This is an important article in the current climate... > James Tabor > > *Guess Who Cares about Dead Palestinians? Jews!* > > By Dennis Prager > > > > *http://www.JewishWorldReview.com |* For > those individuals ? such as nearly all members of the world news media ? > who, in light of Israel's invasion of Gaza ? see moral equivalence between > Israel and the Palestinians, here are some clarifying thoughts. > > > First, it would be difficult nearly to the point of impossibility, to find > Israeli or other Jews who celebrate the deaths of Palestinian civilians. > Jews both within and outside of Israel cringe when they see pictures of dead > Palestinian men, women, and children in Gaza. For thousands of years at > their Passover seders, Jews have removed wine from their cups to > ceremonially weep for the Egyptians ? their erstwhile slave owners for 400 > years ? who died during the Jews exodus. Jews have never stopped weeping for > enemies. > > > The opposite is the case with the large majority of Palestinians. It would > be quite difficult to find many Palestinians who do not celebrate the deaths > of Israeli Jews or non-Israeli Jews. This is not only reflected in > Palestinian polls that show majority support for terrorism ? and terrorism > means killing innocent Jews ? it is also reflected in Palestinian media, > Palestinian schools, and Palestinian mosques that routinely glorify > murderers of Jews, and refer to all Jews as monkeys and the like. > > > Take for example, Palestinian reaction to the 2001 Palestinian terror > bombing of a Jerusalem Sbarro pizzeria in which 15 Jews, five of whom were > two sets of parents and their children, were murdered and an additional 130 > people were injured, some permanently maimed. > > > As reported by the Associated Press, a month later, Palestinian university > students opened an exhibition that included a grisly re-enactment of that > mass murder. The students built a replica of the Sbarro pizzeria, with fake > blood, splattered pizza, a plastic hand dangling from the ceiling, and a > fake severed leg wearing jeans and a bloody black sneaker. > > > The exhibit also includes a large rock in front of a mannequin wearing the > black hat, black jacket and black trousers typically worn by > fervently-Orthodox Jews. A recording from inside the rock calls out: O > believer, there is a Jewish man behind me. Come and kill him, paraphrasing a > verse in the Koran. It became a popular tourist attraction for Palestinians, > to which Palestinian parents took their little children. > > > Here's the question: Can anyone even imagine Jews, in Israel or anywhere > else on earth ? no matter how right-wing they are politically or religiously > ? doing something analogous to celebrate the death of Palestinian civilians? > I have spoken to Jewish groups on both U.S. coasts since the Israeli > invasion of Gaza, and when the subject of Palestinian civilian deaths is > mentioned, all I hear is regret and sadness. > > > This moral chasm that separates Israel from its enemies, and separates the > Jews from their enemies, merely confirms what Hamas repeatedly says about > itself: We love death more than the Jews love life. This motto is so true > that Hamas not only doesn't weep for dead Israelis, it doesn't weep for dead > Palestinians. It uses living Palestinians as human shields and uses dead > Palestinians as propaganda. The moral disequilibrium is such that Jews weep > for dead Palestinian far more than Hamas does. > > > The second point to be raised is about perspective. > > > If during World War II, Western news media had reported German and Japanese > civilian casualties in the same detail and with the same sympathy they > report Palestinian civilian casualties in Gaza, it is doubtful that the > Nazis and the Japanese militarists would have lost that war. Certainly, at > the very least, the anti-Nazi, anti-Fascist war effort would have been > severely compromised. > > > The analogy is entirely apt. Hamas is on the same moral level as the two > World War II enemies. Do those who condemn Israel for its attacks on Hamas > fighters that have tragically resulted in hundreds of civilian Palestinian > deaths also condemn the Allied bombings of German and Japanese military > targets that resulted in far more civilian deaths? I suspect not since most > critics of Israel still regard World War II as a moral war. The overriding > issue, therefore, is whether fighting Hamas is moral. If it is, then the > unintended death of Palestinian civilians is a tragedy, not an evil (except > on the part of Hamas, because it situates its fighters and its missiles > among civilians, including schools). > > > Third, if Hamas had the same ability to bomb Israel as Israel has to bomb > Gaza, would the number of Jewish civilians be in the hundreds? Or would > there be the Holocaust in Israel that Hamas and its Iranian sponsors dream > of? > > > The answer is so obvious that this consideration alone renders moral > Israel's war to destroy Hamas. In a short period of time Hamas will have > more accurate missiles and longer-range ones. One of them could kill a > thousand or more. Another one could destroy passenger planes coming into > Ben-Gurion Airport, thereby causing foreign airlines to stop flying into > Israel. It is that inevitability that Israel is fighting to prevent. But in > the morally confused world we live in, only with thousands of Israelis dead, > would Israel's invasion of Gaza be proportional, and therefore acceptable. > But Israel is more interested in living with world condemnation than in > dying with world sympathy. > > JWR contributor Dennis Prager hosts a national daily radio show based in > Los Angeles. He the author of, most recently, *"Happiness is a Serious > Problem"*. Click here to > comment on this column. > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090113/ff29ff0e/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 18120 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090113/ff29ff0e/attachment.jpe From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 13 17:06:01 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:06:01 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] We Jews Love Life: A Tribute to Dvir Emanuelof, H"YD In-Reply-To: <855590370901130604t58bb0509ld21aa0977f156477@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901130604t58bb0509ld21aa0977f156477@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7F481AC2D00E4B6281456A463F9FFCCB@bettylaptop> Hanoch, thanks so much for sending this. I whole heartedly agree.heartbreaking, but well worth the read. It sets things out very plainly in pointing out the difference between those who love death and those who love life. L'Chayim! (To Life!) Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:05 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] We Jews Love Life: A Tribute to Dvir Emanuelof, H"YD A heartbreaking piece, but worth pushing yourself through it... Hanoch We Jews Love Life: A Tribute to Dvir Emanuelof January 12, 2009 Israel is a small country, but when it goes to war, the front is extraordinarily broad. On Sunday of last week, it reached "Gan Dalia," the kindergarten my five-year-old son David attends in the Ramot neighborhood of Jerusalem. That morning, officers of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) came looking for veteran head teacher Dalia Emanuelof. She was off that day, so they continued searching elsewhere, ultimately waiting outside her home in the nearby suburb of Givat Ze'ev until she returned that afternoon. The news the officers brought was unbearable: Her 22-year-old son, Dvir, had been killed in Jabalya, making him the first Israeli casualty of the ground campaign in Gaza. Fighting there as a staff sergeant in his infantry unit, the elite Golani brigade, he was felled by Hamas mortar fire. Though Israel has a conscript army, Dvir did not have to be in Gaza, as he had received high marks as instructor of a squad leader course, was asked to go to officer school, and would still have been in training had he accepted; he deferred, however, saying he would not be fit to command until he had first fought alongside his comrades. In fact, Dvir did not have to be in any front-line position: His father Netanel had died of cancer at age 46, shortly before Dvir's service began; as an only son in a single-parent family, Dvir was exempt under IDF rules from combat duty. Before accepting him to Golani, his commanding officer visited Dalia and asked if she acquiesced in her son's opting for a dangerous path he was not obligated to choose. Her answer: "If this is how Dvir wants to serve his country, then this is what he will do." Two days before entering Gaza, Dvir had called home and said: "Mom, I have to fight. I have to be there." He went, and he fought-and was buried on Sunday night in the Mount Herzl military cemetery in Jerusalem. A few days later, I was thinking about Dvir as I prepared to speak at an Israel solidarity rally at the Ramaz high school in Manhattan. I opened by talking about Dvir's words to his mother, and then explained why he had to fight-that is, why Israel had no choice but to wage war to stop Hamas from firing missiles at homes and schools in Sderot and other cities in the country's south. After describing Israel's war aims, I addressed the issue on the minds of these morally sensitive young people: How we could be sure that, in the pursuit of moral ends, Israel was using moral means? I stressed the lengths to which the IDF goes to protect Palestinian civilians, and contrasted it with Hamas's systematic strategy of using non-combatants-women, children, even hospital patients-as "human shields," to prevent the Israeli army from attacking its fighters or to saddle the Jewish state with the blame for the civilians who are killed. Afterwards, I fielded questions from seniors in one of Ramaz's honors classes, of which the most difficult was posed by an earnest young woman named Julie. She accepted that Israel was right to launch an offensive and was fighting in accordance with the dictates of morality, but was deeply concerned about the outcome: If Hamas was eager for Palestinian non-combatants to be killed, while the IDF did its best to prevent such casualties, how could Israel hope to win? Either the Israeli army would be deterred from landing the blows needed to defeat Hamas, or Israel would end up killing large numbers of civilians and be forced by international pressure to accept a cease-fire prematurely-which would be perceived as a Hamas victory, on the model of Hizbollah's "triumph by surviving" in the Second Lebanon War. She offered a chillingly apt understanding of the statement made in 2004 by Hizbollah Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah and later echoed by many Hamas leaders: "We have discovered how to hit the Jews where they are the most vulnerable..We are going to win, because they love life and we love death." Nasrallah had meant that the Jews loved their own lives while Muslim radicals embraced death in the pursuit of jihad, but in Gaza, it turned out that Jews also cared more for the lives of Arab civilians than did the leaders of Hamas. I answered, haltingly, on the level of tactics, pointing out that the IDF's detailed intelligence and precise execution enabled it to limit the bulk of Palestinian casualties to Hamas fighters, and that international condemnation of Israel has been kept in check by widespread revulsion at the use of human shields. The question was still on my mind when I landed at Ben-Gurion Airport the next morning and headed to a shiva visit at the Emanuelofs. The first floor was overflowing with well-wishers, some sitting and most standing, centered around Dalia, her three daughters, and the general in charge of Israel's ground forces, Avi Mizrahi, who in an extraordinary gesture of respect was making a condolence visit in the midst of war. Due to his rare combination of gentleness and determination, he became, with Dalia, the center of attention, and the two engaged in a dialogue interspersed with occasional comments from Dalia's eldest daughter, Hadas, who got married less than a year ago and was visibly pregnant with the family's first grandchild >From this dialogue, an extraordinary portrait emerged of Dvir-a modest, idealistic young man who was a leader in the Bnei Akiva youth movement, delighted in taking his friends on hikes throughout Israel, and could never be found without his trademark smile, which radiated out from his sparkling eyes and lit up everyone around him-a point amply attested to in the photos displayed in the Emanuelofs' home. He loved life, with a passion, but was willing to risk his own because he felt a sense of mission to protect Israelis living in the country's south. Dalia, too, was heroic in her own, quiet way. On her face and in her voice one could discern profound sadness, but also pride in her son and the army in which he served, and resolve that Israel must continue to fight until victory. One could also detect a spirit of hope, bordering on faith, that her people would triumph-and that, as Jews traditionally say, Netzach Yisrael lo yishaker, the Eternal One of Israel will not fail us. Equally extraordinary was the picture Dalia painted of the support her family had received. She spoke of two teenage girls who came to her home, and when asked how they had known Dvir, answered that they had never met him but identified with the family's tragedy and wanted to give whatever comfort they could; of a middle-aged man who said only, 'I'm a citizen of Israel, and I came to be with you, as a representative of all of Israel's citizens;' of an elderly gentleman who walked in leaning on a cane, and declared: "I heard that a Golanchik (young Golani soldier) in your family was killed; I fought in Golani in the War of Independence in 1948, and have come to offer my condolences." She described a phone call from a woman she didn't know, who had just had a grandson and wanted permission to name him Dvir. Dalia assented, but urged that he be given a second name, as Jewish tradition says that in calling someone after a person who has suffered an unfortunate fate, one should make this change to symbolize the hope for better fortune. The grandmother answered that the boy's name would be Dvir Chai-"Dvir lives." And Dalia concluded the story: "A few days after my son had been killed, I could already say again, 'Dvir lives.'" At one point, Dalia turned to General Mizrahi and asked why Israel could not fight in Gaza the way coalition forces have in Iraq and Afghanistan-bombing aggressively against enemy fighters in populated areas. There was no bitterness in her voice at the IDF for having endangered her son's life by its regard for Palestinian civilians, nor any desire for revenge-only the concerned tones of an Israeli mother anxious to protect the sons of other Israeli mothers. The general answered thoughtfully, but without hesitation, that the IDF had gone to greater lengths to protect its soldiers in Gaza than in previous conflicts, citing the week-long air campaign that preceded the ground invasion. He added, however, that the IDF's strength is integrally tied to maintaining its humanity and morality. Soldiers are united in part because they know that regardless of religious or political differences, they share a common moral code. Alluding to the widely-held view that Hamas's military leadership is hiding under Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, he said that he wouldn't give an order to bomb the hospital from the air, because there are certain things one simply doesn't do. This is an obligation, he stressed, that the IDF has as a Jewish army. From the reactions in the room, it was clear that while everyone identified with Dalia's question, they accepted the answer-and were impressed that the officer used this opportunity to reinforce the Jewish values binding all of us together. As I left to return home before the start of the Sabbath, I understood the answer to the question I had been asked by a young woman 6,000 miles away. Yes, on the tactical level it can be a handicap to love life when your opponent loves death. But in the end, it is that love of life that will enable us to prevail. We will defeat those who love death, because we love life so much that we Israelis-from teenage girls to senior officers in wartime-know how to give comfort to those who have lost a loved one, and to say, "We are with you." Our love of life enables us to confront tragedy, and emerge with the pride and resolve, the hope and the faith, that Dalia showed. We love life so much that we educate our children to love life, though surrounded by enemies who hope, pray, and work for our deaths. It is this love of life that enabled the Jews to return to our homeland and rebuild a state after 2,000 years, and it is the sense of mission stemming from this love that will sustain the Zionist dream long into the future. We love life so much that we refuse to have our sense of morality dulled by enemies who seek to force us to kill women and children in order to defend our families. Though our principles limit the IDF's effectiveness, they provide us with intangibles that more than compensate-the confidence and the strength to pursue our aims secure in the knowledge we are acting justly, and the unity that comes from a society acting in accordance with its most cherished values. And yes, let no one err, we will win because we love life so much we are willing to brave death, if necessary, to ensure that our people can lead free lives in the country we have established against all odds. In the end, it is this love of life that will enable us to prevail-not only in the war in Gaza, but in all the challenges we face in the years and generations to come. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090113/6fb8fbd6/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Tue Jan 13 18:22:45 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (ptyler at aac-usa.com) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:22:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Dialogue] Important Article In-Reply-To: <1F2FCD9E-4D90-4D10-B33E-90471795411B@earthlink.net> References: <1F2FCD9E-4D90-4D10-B33E-90471795411B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <29220.12.45.64.131.1231892565.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> Thank you for this James, this article truly portrays the Jewish people as Holy and set-apart. Love & Blessings, Patty > This is an important article in the current climate... > > James Tabor > > Guess Who Cares about Dead Palestinians? Jews! > > By Dennis Prager > > > > http://www.JewishWorldReview.com | For those individuals ? such as > nearly all members of the world news media ? who, in light of Israel's > invasion of Gaza ? see moral equivalence between Israel and the > Palestinians, here are some clarifying thoughts. > > > First, it would be difficult nearly to the point of impossibility, to > find Israeli or other Jews who celebrate the deaths of Palestinian > civilians. Jews both within and outside of Israel cringe when they see > pictures of dead Palestinian men, women, and children in Gaza. For > thousands of years at their Passover seders, Jews have removed wine > from their cups to ceremonially weep for the Egyptians ? their > erstwhile slave owners for 400 years ? who died during the Jews > exodus. Jews have never stopped weeping for enemies. > > > The opposite is the case with the large majority of Palestinians. It > would be quite difficult to find many Palestinians who do not > celebrate the deaths of Israeli Jews or non-Israeli Jews. This is not > only reflected in Palestinian polls that show majority support for > terrorism ? and terrorism means killing innocent Jews ? it is also > reflected in Palestinian media, Palestinian schools, and Palestinian > mosques that routinely glorify murderers of Jews, and refer to all > Jews as monkeys and the like. > > > Take for example, Palestinian reaction to the 2001 Palestinian terror > bombing of a Jerusalem Sbarro pizzeria in which 15 Jews, five of whom > were two sets of parents and their children, were murdered and an > additional 130 people were injured, some permanently maimed. > > > As reported by the Associated Press, a month later, Palestinian > university students opened an exhibition that included a grisly re- > enactment of that mass murder. The students built a replica of the > Sbarro pizzeria, with fake blood, splattered pizza, a plastic hand > dangling from the ceiling, and a fake severed leg wearing jeans and a > bloody black sneaker. > > > The exhibit also includes a large rock in front of a mannequin wearing > the black hat, black jacket and black trousers typically worn by > fervently-Orthodox Jews. A recording from inside the rock calls out: O > believer, there is a Jewish man behind me. Come and kill him, > paraphrasing a verse in the Koran. It became a popular tourist > attraction for Palestinians, to which Palestinian parents took their > little children. > > > Here's the question: Can anyone even imagine Jews, in Israel or > anywhere else on earth ? no matter how right-wing they are politically > or religiously ? doing something analogous to celebrate the death of > Palestinian civilians? I have spoken to Jewish groups on both U.S. > coasts since the Israeli invasion of Gaza, and when the subject of > Palestinian civilian deaths is mentioned, all I hear is regret and > sadness. > > > This moral chasm that separates Israel from its enemies, and separates > the Jews from their enemies, merely confirms what Hamas repeatedly > says about itself: We love death more than the Jews love life. This > motto is so true that Hamas not only doesn't weep for dead Israelis, > it doesn't weep for dead Palestinians. It uses living Palestinians as > human shields and uses dead Palestinians as propaganda. The moral > disequilibrium is such that Jews weep for dead Palestinian far more > than Hamas does. > > > The second point to be raised is about perspective. > > > If during World War II, Western news media had reported German and > Japanese civilian casualties in the same detail and with the same > sympathy they report Palestinian civilian casualties in Gaza, it is > doubtful that the Nazis and the Japanese militarists would have lost > that war. Certainly, at the very least, the anti-Nazi, anti-Fascist > war effort would have been severely compromised. > > > The analogy is entirely apt. Hamas is on the same moral level as the > two World War II enemies. Do those who condemn Israel for its attacks > on Hamas fighters that have tragically resulted in hundreds of > civilian Palestinian deaths also condemn the Allied bombings of German > and Japanese military targets that resulted in far more civilian > deaths? I suspect not since most critics of Israel still regard World > War II as a moral war. The overriding issue, therefore, is whether > fighting Hamas is moral. If it is, then the unintended death of > Palestinian civilians is a tragedy, not an evil (except on the part of > Hamas, because it situates its fighters and its missiles among > civilians, including schools). > > > Third, if Hamas had the same ability to bomb Israel as Israel has to > bomb Gaza, would the number of Jewish civilians be in the hundreds? Or > would there be the Holocaust in Israel that Hamas and its Iranian > sponsors dream of? > > > The answer is so obvious that this consideration alone renders moral > Israel's war to destroy Hamas. In a short period of time Hamas will > have more accurate missiles and longer-range ones. One of them could > kill a thousand or more. Another one could destroy passenger planes > coming into Ben-Gurion Airport, thereby causing foreign airlines to > stop flying into Israel. It is that inevitability that Israel is > fighting to prevent. But in the morally confused world we live in, > only with thousands of Israelis dead, would Israel's invasion of Gaza > be proportional, and therefore acceptable. But Israel is more > interested in living with world condemnation than in dying with world > sympathy. > > JWR contributor Dennis Prager hosts a national daily radio show based > in Los Angeles. He the author of, most recently, "Happiness is a > Serious Problem". Click here to comment on this column. > > > _______________________________________________ > From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jan 13 19:05:17 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat Robbins) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:05:17 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Important Article In-Reply-To: <1F2FCD9E-4D90-4D10-B33E-90471795411B@earthlink.net> <855590370901130955v49c41ad7n84fad870f6feb9ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <1F2FCD9E-4D90-4D10-B33E-90471795411B@earthlink.net> <855590370901130955v49c41ad7n84fad870f6feb9ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: This morning I felt directed to Psalm 58 during the time I normally pray for Israel, her people and her soldiers. I didn't immediately know what this particular Psalm was about. I have copied it below. It seems King David had much the same feelings that you do, Hanoch, regarding vengeance being taken upon the wicked. Pat PSALM 58 To the chief Musician,Al-tashhet, A Mikhtam of David. Do you indeed speak righteousness in private? do you judge uprightly, O you sons of men? No, in your hearts you work wickedness; your hands deal out violence on the earth. The wicked are estranged from the womb: they err from birth, speaking lies. Their poison is like the poison of a snake: they are like the deaf adder that stops its ear; which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely. Break their teeth, O G-d, in their mouth: break out the fangs of the young lions, O L-RD. Let them melt away like waters which run continually: when he aims his arrows, let them be as if cut in pieces; like the slimy track of a snail which disappears: like the untimely births of a woman, that have not seen the sun. Before your pots can feel the thorns, he shall sweep them away as with a whirlwind, both the green and the burning. The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily there is a G-d who judges in the earth. From: Hanoch Young Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:55 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Important Article Shalom James, This is an important article, although it's unlikely that we're thinking about it the exact same way. My remarks are directly outward - not to you. I wish Prager were here, so I could introduce myself to him; the first Jew he's ever met who is NOT upset when I see pictures of dead Arabs (whom he refers to as 'Palestinians' - if there every WAS an Arab country by that name what were its borders? It's currency? It's form of government? etc...) What upsets ME? When I hear of young Jewish boys being gunned down as they try to avoid "collateral damage" and risk their lives. My friend Mark Robinson lost his son in Jenin a number of years ago, early on in the Oslo War doing just that. How many people did the U.S. kill in the bombings of Afghanistan? What about the number the Russians slaughtered in Chechnya? Did ANYONE care? And it would be laughable if he wasn't so absurd that we ritualize with sadness the deaths of our enemies. HA! How many Holocaust survivors do you know "...weep for their enemies.." - the Nazis who destroyed their families? I haven't yet met a single one....He is SO WRONG.... And let the spineless world (and American Jews) condemn Israel - screw them! (I'd prefer to use more 'colorful' language) Where were they FOR YEARS when rockets slammed into Israel? For the world, the Jews are held to a higher standard....I say, I would rather be alive and have the world hate me every day, then have them have even 1 minute of a memorial program for us.... Don't misunderstand, I don't believe Israel will fight to WIN, they will fight for a ceasefire, and have foreign troops stand there while Hamas rearms, just like Hizbollah did 2.5 years ago. At the end, Prager begins to make sense, but he still feels it's a "tragedy" when those kids get killed. Are those the same kids being trained (and sent by their parents!) to be suicide bombers??? Do you know the kind of education they get?? Push them all across the Egyptian border, into Sinai (lots of room!), restore Gaza to its rightful owners. Jewish blood isn't cheap any longer... Hanoch On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:16 AM, James Tabor wrote: This is an important article in the current climate... James Tabor Guess Who Cares about Dead Palestinians? Jews! By Dennis Prager http://www.JewishWorldReview.com | For those individuals ? such as nearly all members of the world news media ? who, in light of Israel's invasion of Gaza ? see moral equivalence between Israel and the Palestinians, here are some clarifying thoughts. First, it would be difficult nearly to the point of impossibility, to find Israeli or other Jews who celebrate the deaths of Palestinian civilians. Jews both within and outside of Israel cringe when they see pictures of dead Palestinian men, women, and children in Gaza. For thousands of years at their Passover seders, Jews have removed wine from their cups to ceremonially weep for the Egyptians ? their erstwhile slave owners for 400 years ? who died during the Jews exodus. Jews have never stopped weeping for enemies. The opposite is the case with the large majority of Palestinians. It would be quite difficult to find many Palestinians who do not celebrate the deaths of Israeli Jews or non-Israeli Jews. This is not only reflected in Palestinian polls that show majority support for terrorism ? and terrorism means killing innocent Jews ? it is also reflected in Palestinian media, Palestinian schools, and Palestinian mosques that routinely glorify murderers of Jews, and refer to all Jews as monkeys and the like. Take for example, Palestinian reaction to the 2001 Palestinian terror bombing of a Jerusalem Sbarro pizzeria in which 15 Jews, five of whom were two sets of parents and their children, were murdered and an additional 130 people were injured, some permanently maimed. As reported by the Associated Press, a month later, Palestinian university students opened an exhibition that included a grisly re-enactment of that mass murder. The students built a replica of the Sbarro pizzeria, with fake blood, splattered pizza, a plastic hand dangling from the ceiling, and a fake severed leg wearing jeans and a bloody black sneaker. The exhibit also includes a large rock in front of a mannequin wearing the black hat, black jacket and black trousers typically worn by fervently-Orthodox Jews. A recording from inside the rock calls out: O believer, there is a Jewish man behind me. Come and kill him, paraphrasing a verse in the Koran. It became a popular tourist attraction for Palestinians, to which Palestinian parents took their little children. Here's the question: Can anyone even imagine Jews, in Israel or anywhere else on earth ? no matter how right-wing they are politically or religiously ? doing something analogous to celebrate the death of Palestinian civilians? I have spoken to Jewish groups on both U.S. coasts since the Israeli invasion of Gaza, and when the subject of Palestinian civilian deaths is mentioned, all I hear is regret and sadness. This moral chasm that separates Israel from its enemies, and separates the Jews from their enemies, merely confirms what Hamas repeatedly says about itself: We love death more than the Jews love life. This motto is so true that Hamas not only doesn't weep for dead Israelis, it doesn't weep for dead Palestinians. It uses living Palestinians as human shields and uses dead Palestinians as propaganda. The moral disequilibrium is such that Jews weep for dead Palestinian far more than Hamas does. The second point to be raised is about perspective. If during World War II, Western news media had reported German and Japanese civilian casualties in the same detail and with the same sympathy they report Palestinian civilian casualties in Gaza, it is doubtful that the Nazis and the Japanese militarists would have lost that war. Certainly, at the very least, the anti-Nazi, anti-Fascist war effort would have been severely compromised. The analogy is entirely apt. Hamas is on the same moral level as the two World War II enemies. Do those who condemn Israel for its attacks on Hamas fighters that have tragically resulted in hundreds of civilian Palestinian deaths also condemn the Allied bombings of German and Japanese military targets that resulted in far more civilian deaths? I suspect not since most critics of Israel still regard World War II as a moral war. The overriding issue, therefore, is whether fighting Hamas is moral. If it is, then the unintended death of Palestinian civilians is a tragedy, not an evil (except on the part of Hamas, because it situates its fighters and its missiles among civilians, including schools). Third, if Hamas had the same ability to bomb Israel as Israel has to bomb Gaza, would the number of Jewish civilians be in the hundreds? Or would there be the Holocaust in Israel that Hamas and its Iranian sponsors dream of? The answer is so obvious that this consideration alone renders moral Israel's war to destroy Hamas. In a short period of time Hamas will have more accurate missiles and longer-range ones. One of them could kill a thousand or more. Another one could destroy passenger planes coming into Ben-Gurion Airport, thereby causing foreign airlines to stop flying into Israel. It is that inevitability that Israel is fighting to prevent. But in the morally confused world we live in, only with thousands of Israelis dead, would Israel's invasion of Gaza be proportional, and therefore acceptable. But Israel is more interested in living with world condemnation than in dying with world sympathy. JWR contributor Dennis Prager hosts a national daily radio show based in Los Angeles. He the author of, most recently, "Happiness is a Serious Problem". Click here to comment on this column. _______________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090113/74b71165/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 18120 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090113/74b71165/attachment.jpe From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 13 19:59:39 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:59:39 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] (no subject) Message-ID: <5761C31D742A42FFBE7E409C5D63614B@bettylaptop> Friends, I came across this article I thought important that we read. Written by one who was a teenager and survived the holocaust, the author speaks of rallies and attacks upon Jews all over the world. It is indeed sobering. An additional note. with the passing of the U.N. Resolution which was authored and prepared and supported by our own Condaleeza Rice, has the all the world except the U.S. (who ended up abstaining) turned against Israel in such an outpouring of hatred as that spoken of in Psalm 83? According to sources on Aretz Israel, Condi who was all prepared to support the resolution was ordered by President Bush to abstain. http://www.aish.com/societyWork/society/My_Death_Sentence.asp Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090113/44a65b37/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jan 13 20:02:22 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:02:22 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] CRY THE CHILDREN. Message-ID: <496D47AE.6070203@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090114/9d69bf17/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Wed Jan 14 08:39:39 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:39:39 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] FW: Israel Ready to Strike Iran Message-ID: <004301c97655$efa622b0$0400a8c0@marvin> A friend of mine from the Richmond, Va. Area sent this. He is a member of a large Baptist Church, with a large out reach. My point: many, many people are paying attention. As we look through the glass that is cloudy and frosted over, we look for and await the Hand of Hashem to move in our present reality. Marvin I don't know if this is really going to happen as reported below. But if it does, it will get real ugly, real quick. I guess all we can do is try to be prepared to weather the coming storm. The Time Clock Has Run Out: Israel Ready to Strike Iran Monday, January 12, 2009 3:56 PM By: Jim Meyers Article Font Size Informed sources in Washington tell Newsmax that Israel indeed will launch a strike against Iran's nuclear facilities soon - possibly in just days as President George W. Bush prepares to leave office. The reason: The time clock has begun to run out. Iran is close to acquiring a nuclear device under the control of its radical president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. International Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed ElBaradei said in June that Iran would have a nuclear weapon in as little as six months. That six-month period has passed. Reports of Israel's decision to imminently launch strikes, although unconfirmed, would seem to contradict the Bush stance outlined in a front-page New York Times story last week, which asserted that Bush rejected a plea from Israel last year to help it raid Iran's main nuclear complex. The Times said Israel was rebuffed after it requested from the U.S. specialized bunker-busting bombs that it needs to attack Iran's nuclear complex at Natanz. The U.S. also reportedly nixed permission to the Israeli warplanes to fly over Iraqi territory to reach Iran. Israel's requests to the U.S. for military assistance came as the Jewish state was reportedly angry over a U.S. intelligence assessment in late 2007 that concluded Iran had effectively suspended its development of nuclear weapons. But an investigative report circulated by IAEA chief ElBaradei late last year disclosed that Iran was continuing to carry out uranium enrichment and had already established 6,000 centrifuges for enriching uranium, of which 3,800 were then in operation. American intelligence officials now estimate that the figure is 4,000 to 5,000 centrifuges, enough to produce about one weapon's worth of uranium every eight months or so, according to the Times. The IAEA report estimated that Iran has obtained two tons of enriched uranium since its enrichment program was restarted at Natanz two years ago. Last year 100 Israeli jets took part in an exercise over the eastern Mediterranean that was interpreted as a dress rehearsal for a possible attack on Iran. And on Sept. 6 Israel launched an air attack against a site in Syria believed to be a nuclear-related facility containing material delivered by North Korea. Former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton predicted that Israel would stage a raid against Iran's nuclear facilities if Barack Obama won the presidential election. Bolton stated that he believed the Israeli attack would take place sometime between the day after Obama's win and his inauguration on January 20. In an interview with FOX News, Bolton reasoned that Israel wouldn't be able to hold off a strike on Iran any longer than that given Obama's more conciliatory approach to Iran. The Israeli government "would have to make a judgment whether to [strike] during the remainder of President Bush's term in office or wait for his successor," Bolton added. William Perry, U.S. Secretary of Defense under President Bill Clinton, said that Obama would face a major crisis in his first few months in office over Iran's nuclear weapons program. Perry, speaking at a foreign policy conference on Jan. 8, said that Iran is "moving inexorably toward becoming a nuclear power" and "it seems clear that Israel will not sit by idle while Iran takes the final steps toward becoming a nuclear power." And former CIA officer Robert Baer, author of the new book "The Devil We Know: Dealing with the New Iranian Superpower," told Newsmax in October that Iran was at that time probably months, if not weeks, away from war with Israel. The repercussions of an Israeli attack are not clear. Though Arab states remain openly hostile to Israel, many who belong to the Sunni branch of Islam fear the rise of a nuclear Iran, a nation dominated by Shiite imams. Gulf states like Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have been quietly pressing the U.S. to take action against Iran - and may secretly root for an Israeli attack. But Iran, even without nuclear weapons, is a regional power. If attacked, they are likely to press proxy terror groups like Hamas and Hezbollah to launch offensives against Israel and possibly the U.S. Iran has warned in the past that it would launch a "missile blitz" against Gulf states if it is attacked. And last July a senior Iranian official said the Islamic Republic would destroy Israel and 32 U.S. military bases in the Middle East if Iran is attacked over its nuclear program. "Israel and 32 U.S. military bases in the region would not be out of the reach of our missiles and would be destroyed," the semi-official Fars News Agency quoted Mojtaba Zolnour as saying in a speech. Zolnour is the deputy of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's representative in Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards. Even more ominously, Iran has reportedly carried out missile tests for what could be a plan for a nuclear strike on the U.S. C 2009 Newsmax. All rights reserved -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090114/1cd2668e/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 690 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090114/1cd2668e/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 4874 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090114/1cd2668e/attachment-0002.jpe From mhyde7 at tds.net Wed Jan 14 09:00:23 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:00:23 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Israel United Message-ID: <004901c97658$d700c000$0400a8c0@marvin> Israelis United on Gaza War as Censure Rises Abroad Ethan Bronner The New York Times January 12, 2009 - 12:00am http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/world/middleeast/13israel.html JERUSALEM - To Israel's critics abroad, the picture could not be clearer: Israel's war in Gaza is a wildly disproportionate response to the rockets of Hamas, causing untold human suffering and bombing an already isolated and impoverished population into the Stone Age, and it must be stopped. Yet here in Israel very few, at least among the Jewish population, see it that way. Since Israeli warplanes opened the assault on Gaza 17 days ago, about 900 Palestinians have been reported killed, many of them civilians. Red Cross workers were denied access to scores of dead and wounded Gazans, and a civilian crowd near a United Nations school was hit, with at least 40 people killed. But voices of dissent in this country have been rare. And while tens of thousands have poured into the streets of world capitals demonstrating against the Israeli military operation, antiwar rallies here have struggled to draw 1,000 participants. The Peace Now organization has received many messages from supporters telling it to stay out of the streets on this one. As the editorial page of The Jerusalem Post put it on Monday, the world must be wondering, do Israelis really believe that everybody is wrong and they alone are right? The answer is yes. Article continued at the above link. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090114/bc67b360/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Wed Jan 14 09:13:48 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:13:48 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Can a Two-state solution be forced? Message-ID: <004e01c9765a$b489e540$0400a8c0@marvin> Clinton Sympathizes With Palestinians In Confirmation Hearing Ryan Grim The Huffington Post January 13, 2009 - 12:00am http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/13/clinton-sympathizes-with_n_157487.h tml Hillary Clinton sent a message to Israel Tuesday during her Secretary of State confirmation hearing testimony, telling the Foreign Relations Committee that because of the conflict in Gaza "we have ...been reminded of the tragic humanitarian costs of conflict in the Middle East, and pained by the suffering of Palestinian and Israeli civilians." Mainstream American politicians are famously reluctant to utter the words "suffering" and "Palestinian" in the same sentence. By breaking from that tradition, Clinton appeared to send a signal to Israel that that it would not have a free hand to operate in the Middle East. President-elect Barack Obama found out the hard way early in the campaign what heat can come to a candidate who expresses sympathy for Palestinian suffering. He was quoted in the Des Moines Register as saying that "[n]obody is suffering more than the Palestinian people." The report said that Obama considered the suffering "a result of stalled peace efforts with Israel." Asked later in a debate about the remark, he backpedaled. "Well, keep in mind what the remark actually, if you had the whole thing, said. And what I said is nobody has suffered more than the Palestinian people from the failure of the Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel, to renounce violence, and to get serious about negotiating peace and security for the region," Obama explained. Clinton went on to say that the current crisis "must only increase our determination" to seek a two-state solution. "The President-elect and I understand and are deeply sympathetic to Israel's desire to defend itself under the current conditions, and to be free of shelling by Hamas by rockets. However, we have also been reminded of the tragic humanitarian costs of conflict in the Middle East, and pained by the suffering of Palestinian and Israeli civilians," Clinton said. "This must only increase our determination to seek a just and lasing peace agreement that brings real security to Israel; normal and positive relationships with its neighbors; and independence, economic progress, and security to the Palestinians in their own state." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090114/2f34e530/attachment.html From calbfordham at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 10:16:04 2009 From: calbfordham at gmail.com (calb fordham) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:16:04 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Phil's procedure isn't working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *Dear Amber, Barbara, Hanah, Shoshana, and Tova,* ** * I forwarded Betty's e-mail to you since you responded to my initial prayer and Tehillim (# 70) request. If anyone else had been in touch with you about this or you know of anyone else who may want to pray and say Tehillim for Phil, please pass this along.* ** * Thanks,* * Sheila* ** In a message dated 1/14/2009 7:06:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Thesweetmom writes: *Good Morning,* ** * I am saddened to hear this from Betty. May our prayers cause Phil to heal, if that is Hashem's plan, and help strengthen and comfort his family.* ** * Love,* * Sheila* In a message dated 1/13/2009 10:00:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time: My dearest friends, Phil and I went to the oncologist today to see if he was ready for chemo. His body is so weak and dehydrated that his oncologist said that he needed fluids instead of the chemo right now. After we got the results of his blood work again this morning, his liver has not improved since the two procedures Friday and Saturday, and now there is an indication that his kidneys are beginning to malfunction. So, Dr. Frenette suggested that we bring in Hospice tomorrow and at least talk to them. It has gotten to that point. Dr. Frenette says it could be from 1-2 weeks. Our hearts are breaking. Even with the mighty efforts involved in the last week of saving his life, I'm afraid the procedures haven't worked and have made Phil even more weak. Phil agrees that we had to take this last chance to save his life. I am hopeful that Hospice can manage his pain right away and offer suggestions to make his last days as pain free and peaceful as possible. Please continue to pray for Phil's family including his daughters and son. Love, Betty ------------------------------ *A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090114/846a61f3/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Wed Jan 14 11:04:33 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:04:33 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Phil's procedure isn't working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Amber, Although I do not know Phil and Betty, I am so saddened to hear of Phil's deteriorating condition. I, like many of you, have experienced the heartbreak of situations like this where it appears that all of the medical procedures possible have been done and nothing seems to work, so we sit by and try to comfort our loved ones as we put them into HaShem's hands. Yes, it is heartbreaking. My experience with Hospice is that they are absolutely wonderful in the care that they give not only to their patients but also to the family. They take great care in doing everything possible to eliminate the pain, make their patients as comfortable as possible, and provide love and emotional and spiritual support for the patients' last days. May HaShem strengthen, comfort, and encourage this family and give Phil a Refuah Shlema (complete healing), if not in this life, then in the next. I will be praying, Amber. Thanks for letting us know and please keep us updated. Love & Blessings, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of calb fordham Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 10:16 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Phil's procedure isn't working Dear Amber, Barbara, Hanah, Shoshana, and Tova, I forwarded Betty's e-mail to you since you responded to my initial prayer and Tehillim (# 70) request. If anyone else had been in touch with you about this or you know of anyone else who may want to pray and say Tehillim for Phil, please pass this along. Thanks, Sheila In a message dated 1/14/2009 7:06:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Thesweetmom writes: Good Morning, I am saddened to hear this from Betty. May our prayers cause Phil to heal, if that is Hashem's plan, and help strengthen and comfort his family. Love, Sheila In a message dated 1/13/2009 10:00:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time: My dearest friends, Phil and I went to the oncologist today to see if he was ready for chemo. His body is so weak and dehydrated that his oncologist said that he needed fluids instead of the chemo right now. After we got the results of his blood work again this morning, his liver has not improved since the two procedures Friday and Saturday, and now there is an indication that his kidneys are beginning to malfunction. So, Dr. Frenette suggested that we bring in Hospice tomorrow and at least talk to them. It has gotten to that point. Dr. Frenette says it could be from 1-2 weeks. Our hearts are breaking. Even with the mighty efforts involved in the last week of saving his life, I'm afraid the procedures haven't worked and have made Phil even more weak. Phil agrees that we had to take this last chance to save his life. I am hopeful that Hospice can manage his pain right away and offer suggestions to make his last days as pain free and peaceful as possible. Please continue to pray for Phil's family including his daughters and son. Love, Betty _____ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090114/812057cd/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jan 14 14:52:51 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:52:51 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] CHAMAS Message-ID: <496E50A3.9000002@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090115/ea5d2ac6/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jan 14 16:43:06 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:43:06 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] First Win The War, Then We Can Apologize. Message-ID: <496E6A7A.8050705@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090115/3ee8c94e/attachment.html From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com Fri Jan 16 03:36:06 2009 From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:36:06 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Print out this Gaza/ IDF issue of Jewish times Message-ID: <200901160936.n0G9a0xW008013@mail383c25.carrierzone.com> Gang, Download and print out this special issue on Gaza and the IDF of Jewish Times from Mesorah: http://www.mesora.org/jewishtimes/ Steve From ptyler at aac-usa.com Fri Jan 16 11:41:13 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (ptyler at aac-usa.com) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:41:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Dialogue] Hamas rejects Israeli cease-fire terms In-Reply-To: <200901160936.n0G9a0xW008013@mail383c25.carrierzone.com> References: <200901160936.n0G9a0xW008013@mail383c25.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: <20851.12.45.64.131.1232127673.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> Hamas rejects Israeli cease-fire terms By Michael Slackman and Isabel Kershner Friday, January 16, 2009 CAIRO: As the war in Gaza entered its 21st day and the quest for a truce resumed here and in Washington, the senior leader in exile of Hamas rejected Israel's terms for a cease-fire and Israel rejected a call by the leader of the United Nations for Israel to stop its assault. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday in Washington that the United States had agreed to a range of measures, including providing international monitors, to help Israel stem the smuggling of weapons into the Gaza Strip, a step that could open the way for a cease-fire. A memorandum of understanding was hastily drafted for the signature of Rice and the Israeli foreign minister, Tzipi Livni, who is visiting Washington. The agreement will give the Israeli government confidence to agree to open border crossings in Gaza, a senior U.S. official said on condition of anonymity. That could allow both sides to sign on to an Egyptian-sponsored cease-fire proposal, the official said. Under the agreement, the United States will provide technical assistance and monitors to crack down on the network of tunnels through which Hamas moves components for rockets and missiles from the Sinai Peninsula into Gaza. "The fighting must stop," Secretary General Ban Ki Moon of the United Nations said at a news conference in Ramallah, West Bank, calling for Israel to consider a unilateral cease-fire. "We have no time to lose." Mark Regev, the spokesman for Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, dismissed Ban's call, according to news reports. "I don't believe that there's a logical expectation in the international community that Israel unilaterally cease fire while Hamas would continue to target cities, trying to kill our people," he said. The Hamas leader, Khaled Meshal, told an unusual Arab gathering in Doha, Qatar, "I assure you, despite all the destruction in Gaza, we will not accept Israel's conditions for a cease-fire." In a speech broadcast across the Arab world and widely followed in the Middle East and elsewhere, he said Hamas was not ready to quit, even though three weeks of fighting has claimed around 1,100 Palestinian lives. "Resistance in Gaza has not been defeated," he said. "It has suffered harm but it has not been defeated." Israel has long insisted that a cease-fire should be long-term and sustainable, preventing Hamas from firing rockets at Israel or rearming. Meshal, who is based in Damascus, told the meeting that Hamas would accept a cease-fire only if Israel withdrew its forces from the Gaza Strip, lifted its blockade and reopened border crossing points. Meshal made the keynote address on Friday, securing a significant platform in his rivalry with Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority, which controls the West Bank, while Hamas controls the Gaza Strip. In his speech, Meshal said settlements with Israel in the past had not brought solutions for Palestinians' problems. According to Egyptian officials who know details of the cease-fire negotiations, Hamas has been plagued by internal bickering, with the Syria-based leadership hewing to a tougher line on concessions from Israel, while the Gaza-based leadership has been more eager to halt the fighting and more flexible in negotiations. Gaza residents said Friday that the fighting seemed less intense than on the previous day, when Israeli forces shelled the headquarters of the UN Relief and Works Agency and other buildings in Gaza. Israel said the strike was in response to enemy fire. Isabel Kershner reported from Jerusalem. Reporting was contributed by Taghreed El-Khodary from Gaza; Steven Erlanger and Ethan Bronner from Jerusalem; Neil MacFarquhar from the United Nations, New York; Mark Landler from Washington; and Alan Cowell from Paris. From ptyler at aac-usa.com Fri Jan 16 11:57:54 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (ptyler at aac-usa.com) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:57:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Dialogue] Blatant Hypocrisy? In-Reply-To: <20851.12.45.64.131.1232127673.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> References: <200901160936.n0G9a0xW008013@mail383c25.carrierzone.com> <20851.12.45.64.131.1232127673.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> Message-ID: <54253.12.45.64.131.1232128674.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> January 14, 2009 Media and Activists Ignore Horrors when Israel can't be Blamed By Victor Sharpe Perhaps as many as 400,000 people have been killed and some two million driven from their homes since 2003. Are we talking about Gaza? No, it is Darfur and the victims are black Christians and animists in southern Sudan. The culprit? The Arab Islamist government in Khartoum. But where are the street protests against the Islamists? There are none, because the victims are not Palestinian Arabs. What of the Sri Lankan War in which up to 70,000 Hindus and Buddhists have died since 1983 and hundreds, perhaps thousands, of the minority Muslim population have lost their lives while 75,000 others have been driven from their homes. Most people are completely unaware of this long and harrowing war. Can you remember seeing street demonstrations or lurid pictures flashed across your TV screen? The answer is no because they are not Palestinians. How about the war in the Republic of Congo where since 1997 almost 4,000,000 people have perished? No knowledge of it? Well that's because they weren't Palestinians. Then there's the Somali civil war, which has accounted for 400,000 dead since 1988. Oh, let's not forget, they also are not Palestinians. And before I move on, there's the Mexican drug war currently raging in which nearly 8,000 have died since it began in 2006. But we can ignore that one because they are not Palestinians. Other wars include the Second Chechen war with up to 90,000 dead; the Islamic insurgency in the Philippines with 160,000 casualties; an ethnic conflict in Nagaland with the loss of 43,000 lives; the Turkish- Kurdish struggle with 37,000 dead and wounded and, last but not least, the Islamic insurgency in Kashmir with another 60,000 lives lost. There are too many others to name but you won't hear much about them because - well yes you guessed it - they are not Palestinians. Did you hear, during the last eight years, about the 10,000 Palestinian missiles that Hamas and other terror organizations have fired at Israeli villagers and townsfolk from the Gaza Strip? I doubt it, because the victims were Israelis not Palestinians. Perhaps you have heard about the 6,500 rockets and mortars deliberately aimed at Israeli civilian targets since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005? No? Well, again, that's because the suffering population is in southern Israel, not among the Palestinians. Incidentally, the Israelis left behind a thriving agricultural infrastructure for the Arabs to embrace and for them to prove that they were genuinely interested in living side by side in peace with Israel. But the mainstream media soon forgot that fact. But consider this. As soon as Israel could no longer bear the Palestinian provocations and finally retaliated, the world strangely woke up and ended its deafening silence. Predictably the United Nations, orchestrated by the 50 or more members of the Islamic Bloc and, as always, supported by the enfeebled and hypocritical European Union, now fast sliding down into the vile pit called Eurabia, became stridently vocal with condemnations not of Hamas, with its bloodthirsty calls for Israel's destruction, but of the long suffering Israelis for daring to defend themeselves. How odd that there were no official condemnations of the Hamas regime in Gaza by the U.N. while thousands of Palestinian rockets and mortars were raining down on Israel for years in a gigantic act of premeditated and murderous terror. Sadly, it is symptomatic of much of the world's hypocrisy, pro-Palestinian bias, and dislike of the Jewish state. The world hated the stateless Jews and now hates the State of the Jews. Israeli civilians can die and be maimed for as long as it takes; but not Palestinians, even if Hamas uses the hapless civilians in Gaza as human shields - an indefensible war crime. Blatant hypocrisy? You bet. From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com Fri Jan 16 16:04:46 2009 From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:04:46 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH Message-ID: <200901162204.n0GM4bQO030986@mail382c25.carrierzone.com> Dear Friends, Hanoch is not doing well, he may have to be hospitalized if the current antibiotics do not work. He is confined to bed rest while the current antibiotic is to work. If it does not, it may be life-threatening. It is pretty serious now. If you do not hear from him, it is because he is in the hospital starting this weekend. You know what to do, his name is Hanoch ben Zeisel. Please bring his name before the Almighty in all your prayers and services and "stand in" for healing for him. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090116/60e078dc/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Fri Jan 16 16:51:48 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:51:48 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH Message-ID: <1479844173-1232146328-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1850161176-@bxe286.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Got it! Thank you Steve. John C. ------Original Message------ From: Steve Mathe Sender: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org To: Dialogue ReplyTo: Dialogue Sent: Jan 16, 2009 16:04 Subject: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH Dear Friends, Hanoch is not doing well, he may have to be hospitalized if the current antibiotics do not work.? He is confined to bed rest while the current antibiotic is to work.? If it does not, it may be life-threatening.? It is pretty serious now.?? If you do not hear from him, it is because he is in the hospital starting this weekend. You know what? to do, his name is Hanoch ben Zeisel. Please bring his name before the Almighty in all your prayers and services and "stand in" for healing for him. Steve _______________________________________________ Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jan 17 03:53:33 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:53:33 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH] Message-ID: <4971AA9D.5070501@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090117/0705f53b/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Steve Mathe Subject: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:04:46 -0800 Size: 5057 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090117/0705f53b/attachment.eml From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sat Jan 17 11:38:26 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:38:26 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH] In-Reply-To: <4971AA9D.5070501@westnet.com.au> References: <4971AA9D.5070501@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Thank you Joe and Steve for alerting us to this emergency concerning dear Hanoch! May our prayers for Hanoch be answered speedily, and may our Loving and Faithful Father grant him complete recovery. These are Scriptures I'm praying for him. I know that Hanoch holds fast the Word of G-d. If anyone gets some others, please let us know that we may all add them to our prayers for him. "My son, attend to my words; incline thy ear to my sayings. Let them not depart from thy eyes; keep them in the midst of thy heart. For they are life to those who find them, and health to all their flesh. Keep thy heart with the greatest vigilance; for out of it are the issues of life." Proverbs 4:20-23 Bless the L-RD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: who forgives all thy iniquities; who heals all thy diseases, who redeems thy life from the pit; who encircles thee with love and compassion; who satisfies thy old age with good; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagles. The L-RD executes righteousness, and judgment for all that are oppressed." Psalm 103:2-6 Love, Pat Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:53:33 +1000From: jid at westnet.com.auTo: dialogue at rootsoffaith.orgSubject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH]Shavua Tov Chaverim,Thank you Steve for passing this on. Yes, Hanoch is not doing well. I did manage to speak to him before Shabbat in Australia and it seems that his condition has worsened. I am not privy to divulge his illness at this stage. What I can say is that it is serious.Please keep our dear brother Hanoch in your prayers and may HasHem provide a complete refuah .My prayers are with you Hanoch if you are still at home after Shabbat in New York.A speedy recovery.Shalom v'AhavahJOE.--Forwarded Message Attachment--Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:04:46 -0800To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.orgFrom: eliasaph at uniteourheart.comSubject: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH Dear Friends,Hanoch is not doing well, he may have to be hospitalized if the current antibiotics do not work. He is confined to bed rest while the current antibiotic is to work. If it does not, it may be life-threatening. It is pretty serious now. If you do not hear from him, it is because he is in the hospital starting this weekend.You know what to do, his name is Hanoch ben Zeisel. Please bring his name before the Almighty in all your prayers and services and "stand in" for healing for him. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090117/548f13f6/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jan 17 16:02:10 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:02:10 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH]] Message-ID: <49725562.4050102@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090118/c462493f/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: patricia robbins Subject: RE: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH] Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:38:26 -0500 Size: 10689 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090118/c462493f/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jan 17 16:37:51 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:37:51 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Blatant Hypocrisy?] Message-ID: <49725DBF.4030804@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090118/c993a874/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: ptyler at aac-usa.com Subject: [Dialogue] Blatant Hypocrisy? Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:57:54 -0500 (EST) Size: 8027 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090118/c993a874/attachment.eml From j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net Sat Jan 17 18:32:07 2009 From: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net (Helen Lusk) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:32:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH]] In-Reply-To: <49725562.4050102@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <79650.87966.qm@web82502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Still praying for Hanoch's complete recovery. Thank you, Joe, for the attachment and the music was really meaningful and?uplifting. ? Kind regards, ? Helen --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Joe Indomenico wrote: From: Joe Indomenico Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH]] To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 5:02 PM Shalom Avigail, thank you so much for your input and concern for Hanoch. Our stand in achdut for Hanoch is of paramount importance at this juncture in time. More than you will ever know. I cannot elaborate for the time being. Time will reveal all. B'Ezrat HaShem. I would also like to add a tefilah on behalf of Hanoch. PSALM 4. http://www.shma-israel.org/music_main.php?AUDIO_FILE=0004_4_Psalm&PHPSESSID=932497bab979b10b1daba26b28b1925b Psalms Chapter 4 ?????????????? ????????????, ???????? ???????. 1 For the Leader; with string-music. A Psalm of David. ?????????????, ??????? ??????? ???????--???????, ??????????? ????; ?? ????????, ???????? ???????????. 2 Answer me when I call, O God of my righteousness, Thou who didst set me free when I was in distress; be gracious unto me, and hear my prayer. ????????? ?????, ???-??? ???????? ??????????--??????????? ????; ?? ??????????? ????? ?????. 3 O ye sons of men, how long shall my glory be put to shame, in that ye love vanity, and seek after falsehood? Selah ??????????--????-??????? ??????, ?????? ???; ?? ?????? ????????, ?????????? ??????. 4 But know that the LORD hath set apart the godly man as His own; the LORD will hear when I call unto Him. ??????????, ?????-??????????: ?? ??????? ???????????, ???-?????????????; ???????? ?????. 5 Tremble, and sin not; commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah ?????????? ???????-?????; ?? ?????????, ???-??????. 6 Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD. ?????????? ????????, ???-?????????-????: ?? ????? ????????, ???? ???????? ??????. 7 Many there are that say: 'Oh that we could see some good!' LORD, lift Thou up the light of Thy countenance upon us. ??????????? ???????? ????????; ?? ????? ???????? ???????????? ??????. 8 Thou hast put gladness in my heart, more than when their corn and their wine increase. ????????????? ????????, ??????????? ?????????: ?? ????-?????? ?????? ???????; ???????, ?????????????. 9 In peace will I both lay me down and sleep; for Thou, LORD, makest me dwell alone in safety. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090117/45196349/attachment.html From tposborne77 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 17 18:38:05 2009 From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com (Tracy Osborne) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:38:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH References: <200901162204.n0GM4bQO030986@mail382c25.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: <321880.5275.qm@web51110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Have prayed several times in the last couple of days for our dear brother. Let's all fall on our face right now beseeching Our Father to have mercy and bring healing to Hanoch. Tracy ________________________________ From: Steve Mathe To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 5:04:46 PM Subject: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH Dear Friends, Hanoch is not doing well, he may have to be hospitalized if the current antibiotics do not work.? He is confined to bed rest while the current antibiotic is to work.? If it does not, it may be life-threatening.? It is pretty serious now.?? If you do not hear from him, it is because he is in the hospital starting this weekend. You know what? to do, his name is Hanoch ben Zeisel. Please bring his name before the Almighty in all your prayers and services and "stand in" for healing for him. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090117/445a2b5c/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sat Jan 17 19:26:07 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:26:07 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH]] In-Reply-To: <49725562.4050102@westnet.com.au> References: <49725562.4050102@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Have added Ps 4 to my prayers, Joe. Thank you. Am so hoping to hear from him soon. Love, Avigail Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:02:10 +1000From: jid at westnet.com.auTo: dialogue at rootsoffaith.orgSubject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH]]Shalom Avigail,thank you so much for your input and concern for Hanoch. Our stand in achdut for Hanoch is of paramount importance at this juncture in time. More than you will ever know. I cannot elaborate for the time being. Time will reveal all. B'Ezrat HaShem.I would also like to add a tefilah on behalf of Hanoch.PSALM 4.http://www.shma-israel.org/music_main.php?AUDIO_FILE=0004_4_Psalm&PHPSESSID=932497bab979b10b1daba26b28b1925b Psalms Chapter 4 ? ??????????? ????????????, ???????? ???????. 1 For the Leader; with string-music. A Psalm of David. ? ??????????, ??????? ??????? ???????--???????, ??????????? ????; ????????, ???????? ???????????. 2 Answer me when I call, O God of my righteousness, Thou who didst set me free when I was in distress; be gracious unto me, and hear my prayer. ? ?????? ?????, ???-??? ???????? ??????????--??????????? ????; ??????????? ????? ?????. 3 O ye sons of men, how long shall my glory be put to shame, in that ye love vanity, and seek after falsehood? Selah ? ???????--????-??????? ??????, ?????? ???; ?????? ????????, ?????????? ??????. 4 But know that the LORD hath set apart the godly man as His own; the LORD will hear when I call unto Him. ? ???????, ?????-??????????: ??????? ???????????, ???-?????????????; ???????? ?????. 5 Tremble, and sin not; commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah ? ??????? ???????-?????; ?????????, ???-??????. 6 Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD. ? ??????? ????????, ???-?????????-????: ????? ????????, ???? ???????? ??????. 7 Many there are that say: 'Oh that we could see some good!' LORD, lift Thou up the light of Thy countenance upon us. ? ???????? ???????? ????????; ????? ???????? ???????????? ??????. 8 Thou hast put gladness in my heart, more than when their corn and their wine increase. ? ?????????? ????????, ??????????? ?????????: ????-?????? ?????? ???????; ???????, ?????????????. 9 In peace will I both lay me down and sleep; for Thou, LORD, makest me dwell alone in safety.Shalom v'AhavahJOE.--Forwarded Message Attachment--From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.comTo: dialogue at rootsoffaith.orgSubject: RE: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH]Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:38:26 -0500 Thank you Joe and Steve for alerting us to this emergency concerning dear Hanoch! May our prayers for Hanoch be answered speedily, and may our Loving and Faithful Father grant him complete recovery. These are Scriptures I'm praying for him. I know that Hanoch holds fast the Word of G-d. If anyone gets some others, please let us know that we may all add them to our prayers for him. "My son, attend to my words; incline thy ear to my sayings. Let them not depart from thy eyes; keep them in the midst of thy heart. For they are life to those who find them, and health to all their flesh. Keep thy heart with the greatest vigilance; for out of it are the issues of life." Proverbs 4:20-23 Bless the L-RD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: who forgives all thy iniquities; who heals all thy diseases, who redeems thy life from the pit; who encircles thee with love and compassion; who satisfies thy old age with good; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagles. The L-RD executes righteousness, and judgment for all that are oppressed." Psalm 103:2-6 Love, Pat Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:53:33 +1000From: jid at westnet.com.auTo: dialogue at rootsoffaith.orgSubject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH]Shavua Tov Chaverim,Thank you Steve for passing this on. Yes, Hanoch is not doing well. I did manage to speak to him before Shabbat in Australia and it seems that his condition has worsened. I am not privy to divulge his illness at this stage. What I can say is that it is serious.Please keep our dear brother Hanoch in your prayers and may HasHem provide a complete refuah .My prayers are with you Hanoch if you are still at home after Shabbat in New York.A speedy recovery.Shalom v'AhavahJOE.--Forwarded Message Attachment--Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:04:46 -0800To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.orgFrom: eliasaph at uniteourheart.comSubject: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH Dear Friends,Hanoch is not doing well, he may have to be hospitalized if the current antibiotics do not work. He is confined to bed rest while the current antibiotic is to work. If it does not, it may be life-threatening. It is pretty serious now. If you do not hear from him, it is because he is in the hospital starting this weekend.You know what to do, his name is Hanoch ben Zeisel. Please bring his name before the Almighty in all your prayers and services and "stand in" for healing for him. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090117/6fe2474b/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Sat Jan 17 21:33:57 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:33:57 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch In-Reply-To: References: <2964F1E9-D2A2-41EE-AC91-DCD0D5C52CD6@earthlink.net> <00a501c978ae$fccc2650$fff67f45@rayterry> <42F8F5D6-026A-436D-9248-9EE0753814BC@earthlink.net> <9546F951-5068-46F5-9A1E-B05FE0B51BA5@earthlink.net> <49728ebe.16048e0a.4e11.36f7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: > I talked to Hanoch just now. He has rested all day and will know > more tomorrow AM when he sees his Dr. He had not been to the > computer but seemed very moved at the concern of all of us as I > described to him the messages. I think he is realizing the > seriousness of this infection. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 17, 2009, at 10:11 PM, patricia robbins > wrote: > >> Certainly will keep praying. Thank you, Steve. Waiting to hear as >> soon as you know anything. >> >> Pat >> >> >> >> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 18:06:50 -0800 >> To: uilist at unitedisrael. >> >> I just called Hanoch, and there is no answer. Keep praying. I >> will call as soon as I know anything. >> >> Steve >> >> >> At 08:55 AM 1/17/2009, you wrote: >> >> Thank you, James, for this information about Hanoch's condition. >> It helps to know how to pray and what to zero in on. May HaShem >> heal our dear brother by the Power of His Might, and raise him up! >> >> Pat >> >> > From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net >> > To: uilist at unitedisrael.org >> > Subject: Re: [UILIST] Hanoch >> > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:15:04 -0500 >> > >> > I should add that Hanoch does not talk on the phone on Shabbat I >> > think, but I will try again to reach him at the end of the day. I >> did >> > just call Steve and he tells me Hanoch has a life threatening >> > infection in his leg, doctors are trying various antibiotics, so >> far >> > no success, so there is concern, as these kinds of things can be >> > persistent and even life-threatening. May we all pray for him >> this day. >> > >> > James >> > >> > >> > On Jan 17, 2009, at 10:03 AM, James Tabor wrote: >> > >> > > That would be great Ray. I called his mobile (917-710-8424) and >> left >> > > a message. Maybe you could try today. I am hoping that Steve >> might >> > > write us this morning and let us know a bit more as I knew >> nothing >> > > of this until I saw that message for prayer yesterday and I don't >> > > think anyone else did either. >> > > >> > > James >> > > >> > > >> > > On Jan 17, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Raymond Selg wrote: >> > > >> > >> James, If it comes down to it or if it's necessary for a >> person to >> > >> see him >> > >> and find out his status and let the list know how he is I >> could do >> > >> that. I >> > >> would need info as to where he is. Ray >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> -----Original Message----- >> > >> From: uilist-bounces at unitedisrael.org >> > >> [ mailto:uilist-bounces at unitedisrael.org] On Behalf Of James >> Tabor >> > >> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 8:58 AM >> > >> To: UI List >> > >> Cc: Steve Mathe >> > >> Subject: [UILIST] Hanoch >> > >> >> > >> Steve or others...the first I heard of Hanoch being ill was your >> > >> message yesterday. I tried immediately to call him on mobile >> and home >> > >> phones. Can anyone report anything else who has talked to him? >> What >> > >> is >> > >> going on, as this is all so very sudden. >> > >> >> > >> On Shabbat, thinking of him... >> > >> >> > >> James >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> UILIST mailing list >> > >> UILIST at unitedisrael.org >> > >> >> > >> **** This is a private list. >> > >> **** Do not forward or publish the messages from this list >> > >> **** without permission from the person who wrote it. >> > >> **** Visit www.unitedisrael.org * >> > >> ************************************************ >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> UILIST mailing list >> > >> UILIST at unitedisrael.org >> > >> >> > >> **** This is a private list. >> > >> **** Do not forward or publish the messages from this list >> > >> **** without permission from the person who wrote it. >> > >> **** Visit www.unitedisrael.org * >> > >> ************************************************ >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > UILIST mailing list >> > > UILIST at unitedisrael.org >> > > >> > > **** This is a private list.**** Do not forward or publish the >> > > messages from this list**** without permission from the person >> who >> > > wrote it. >> > > **** Visit www.unitedisrael.org >> > > ************************************************* >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > UILIST mailing list >> > UILIST at unitedisrael.org >> > >> > **** This is a private list. >> > **** Do not forward or publish the messages from this list >> > **** without permission from the person who wrote it. >> > **** Visit www.unitedisrael.org * >> > ************************************************ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> UILIST mailing list >> UILIST at unitedisrael.org >> >> **** This is a private list. >> **** Do not forward or publish the messages from this list >> **** without permission from the person who wrote it. >> **** Visit www.unitedisrael.org * >> ************************************************ >> _______________________________________________ >> UILIST mailing list >> UILIST at unitedisrael.org >> >> **** This is a private list. >> **** Do not forward or publish the messages from this list >> **** without permission from the person who wrote it. >> **** Visit www.unitedisrael.org * >> ************************************************ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090117/77f3ec98/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sat Jan 17 21:37:22 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:37:22 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch In-Reply-To: References: <2964F1E9-D2A2-41EE-AC91-DCD0D5C52CD6@earthlink.net> <00a501c978ae$fccc2650$fff67f45@rayterry> <42F8F5D6-026A-436D-9248-9EE0753814BC@earthlink.net> <9546F951-5068-46F5-9A1E-B05FE0B51BA5@earthlink.net> <49728ebe.16048e0a.4e11.36f7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thank you so much for telling us, James. Just feels good knowing that you've been able to reach him. Pat From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.netTo: dialogue at rootsoffaith.orgDate: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:33:57 -0500Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch I talked to Hanoch just now. He has rested all day and will know more tomorrow AM when he sees his Dr. He had not been to the computer but seemed very moved at the concern of all of us as I described to him the messages. I think he is realizing the seriousness of this infection.Sent from my iPhone On Jan 17, 2009, at 10:11 PM, patricia robbins wrote: Certainly will keep praying. Thank you, Steve. Waiting to hear as soon as you know anything. Pat Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 18:06:50 -0800To: uilist at unitedisrael.I just called Hanoch, and there is no answer. Keep praying. I will call as soon as I know anything. SteveAt 08:55 AM 1/17/2009, you wrote: Thank you, James, for this information about Hanoch's condition. It helps to know how to pray and what to zero in on. May HaShem heal our dear brother by the Power of His Might, and raise him up! Pat> From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net> To: uilist at unitedisrael.org> Subject: Re: [UILIST] Hanoch> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:15:04 -0500> > I should add that Hanoch does not talk on the phone on Shabbat I > think, but I will try again to reach him at the end of the day. I did > just call Steve and he tells me Hanoch has a life threatening > infection in his leg, doctors are trying various antibiotics, so far > no success, so there is concern, as these kinds of things can be > persistent and even life-threatening. May we all pray for him this day.> > James> > > On Jan 17, 2009, at 10:03 AM, James Tabor wrote:> > > That would be great Ray. I called his mobile (917-710-8424) and left > > a message. Maybe you could try today. I am hoping that Steve might > > write us this morning and let us know a bit more as I knew nothing > > of this until I saw that message for prayer yesterday and I don't > > think anyone else did either.> >> > James> >> >> > On Jan 17, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Raymond Selg wrote:> >> >> James, If it comes down to it or if it's necessary for a person to > >> see him> >> and find out his status and let the list know how he is I could do > >> that. I> >> would need info as to where he is. Ray> >>> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: uilist-bounces at unitedisrael.org> >> [ mailto:uilist-bounces at unitedisrael.org] On Behalf Of James Tabor> >> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 8:58 AM> >> To: UI List> >> Cc: Steve Mathe> >> Subject: [UILIST] Hanoch> >>> >> Steve or others...the first I heard of Hanoch being ill was your> >> message yesterday. I tried immediately to call him on mobile and home> >> phones. Can anyone report anything else who has talked to him? What > >> is> >> going on, as this is all so very sudden.> >>> >> On Shabbat, thinking of him...> >>> >> James> >> _______________________________________________> >> UILIST mailing list> >> UILIST at unitedisrael.org> >>> >> **** This is a private list.> >> **** Do not forward or publish the messages from this list> >> **** without permission from the person who wrote it.> >> **** Visit www.unitedisrael.org *> >> ************************************************> >>> >> _______________________________________________> >> UILIST mailing list> >> UILIST at unitedisrael.org> >>> >> **** This is a private list.> >> **** Do not forward or publish the messages from this list> >> **** without permission from the person who wrote it.> >> **** Visit www.unitedisrael.org *> >> ************************************************> >> > _______________________________________________> > UILIST mailing list> > UILIST at unitedisrael.org> >> > **** This is a private list.**** Do not forward or publish the > > messages from this list**** without permission from the person who > > wrote it.> > **** Visit www.unitedisrael.org > > *************************************************> > _______________________________________________> UILIST mailing list> UILIST at unitedisrael.org> > **** This is a private list. > **** Do not forward or publish the messages from this list > **** without permission from the person who wrote it.> **** Visit www.unitedisrael.org * > ************************************************ _______________________________________________UILIST mailing listUILIST at unitedisrael.org**** This is a private list. **** Do not forward or publish the messages from this list **** without permission from the person who wrote it.**** Visit www.unitedisrael.org * ************************************************ _______________________________________________UILIST mailing listUILIST at unitedisrael.org**** This is a private list. **** Do not forward or publish the messages from this list **** without permission from the person who wrote it.**** Visit www.unitedisrael.org * ************************************************ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090117/5b4ec5f5/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jan 17 22:12:27 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:12:27 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Hanoch] Message-ID: <4972AC2B.10402@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090118/a4f2573e/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: James Tabor Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:33:57 -0500 Size: 18239 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090118/a4f2573e/attachment.eml From correim at gninc.ca Sat Jan 17 22:36:49 2009 From: correim at gninc.ca (Cornie Reimer) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:36:49 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH]] In-Reply-To: References: <49725562.4050102@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <4972B1E1.8060702@gninc.ca> I am praying for our dear friend Hanoch Cornie patricia robbins wrote: > Have added Ps 4 to my prayers, Joe. Thank you. Am so hoping to hear > from him soon. > > Love, > > Avigail > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:02:10 +1000 > From: jid at westnet.com.au > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH]] > > /Shalom Avigail, > > thank you so much for your input and concern for Hanoch. Our stand in > achdut for Hanoch is of paramount importance at this juncture in time. > More than you will ever know. I cannot elaborate for the time being. > Time will reveal all. B'Ezrat HaShem. > > I would also like to add a tefilah on behalf of Hanoch. > PSALM 4. > http://www.shma-israel.org/music_main.php?AUDIO_FILE=0004_4_Psalm&PHPSESSID=932497bab979b10b1daba26b28b1925b > > > > / > > > Psalms Chapter 4 > > *?* ??????????? ????????????, ???????? ???????. *1* For the Leader; with > string-music. A Psalm of David. > *?* ??????????, ??????? ??????? ???????--???????, ??????????? ????; ????????, ???????? ???????????. *2* > Answer me when I call, O God of my righteousness, Thou who didst set > me free when I was in distress; be gracious unto me, and hear my prayer. > *?* ?????? ?????, ???-??? ???????? ??????????--??????????? ????; ??????????? ????? ?????. *3* O > ye sons of men, how long shall my glory be put to shame, in that ye > love vanity, and seek after falsehood? Selah > *?* ???????--????-??????? ??????, ?????? ???; ?????? ????????, ?????????? ??????. *4* But > know that the LORD hath set apart the godly man as His own; the LORD > will hear when I call unto Him. > *?* ???????, ?????-??????????: ??????? ???????????, ???-?????????????; ???????? ?????. *5* > Tremble, and sin not; commune with your own heart upon your bed, and > be still. Selah > *?* ??????? ???????-?????; ?????????, ???-??????. *6* Offer the sacrifices of > righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD. > *?* ??????? ????????, ???-?????????-????: ????? ????????, ???? ???????? ??????. *7* Many > there are that say: 'Oh that we could see some good!' LORD, lift Thou > up the light of Thy countenance upon us. > *?* ???????? ???????? ????????; ????? ???????? ???????????? ??????. *8* Thou hast put > gladness in my heart, more than when their corn and their wine increase. > *?* ?????????? ????????, ??????????? ?????????: ????-?????? ?????? ???????; ???????, ?????????????. *9* > In peace will I both lay me down and sleep; for Thou, LORD, makest me > dwell alone in safety. > > > /Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > / > > --Forwarded Message Attachment-- > From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: RE: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH] > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:38:26 -0500 > > Thank you Joe and Steve for alerting us to this emergency concerning > dear Hanoch! May our prayers for Hanoch be answered speedily, and may > our Loving and Faithful Father grant him complete recovery. These are > Scriptures I'm praying for him. I know that Hanoch holds fast the > Word of G-d. If anyone gets some others, please let us know that we > may all add them to our prayers for him. > > > > > > "My son, attend to my words; incline thy ear to my sayings. Let them > not depart from thy eyes; keep them in the midst of thy heart. For > they are life > > to those who find them, and health to all their flesh. Keep thy heart > with the greatest vigilance; for out of it are the issues of > life." Proverbs 4:20-23 > > > > Bless the L-RD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: who > forgives all thy iniquities; who heals all thy diseases, who redeems > thy life from the pit; > > who encircles thee with love and compassion; who satisfies thy old > age with good; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagles. The L-RD > executes > > righteousness, and judgment for all that are oppressed." > Psalm 103:2-6 > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > Pat > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:53:33 +1000 > From: jid at westnet.com.au > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH] > > /Shavua Tov Chaverim, > > Thank you Steve for passing this on. > Yes, Hanoch is not doing well. I did manage to speak to him before > Shabbat in Australia and it seems that his condition has worsened. I > am not privy to divulge his illness at this stage. What I can say is > that it is serious. > > Please keep our dear brother Hanoch in your prayers and may HasHem > provide a complete refuah . > > My prayers are with you Hanoch if you are still at home after Shabbat > in New York. > A speedy recovery. > > Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > > > > > > / > > --Forwarded Message Attachment-- > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:04:46 -0800 > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com > Subject: [Dialogue] PRAYER FOR HANOCH > > * > * > *Dear Friends, > > Hanoch is not doing well, he may have to be hospitalized if the > current antibiotics do not work. He is confined to bed rest while the > current antibiotic is to work. If it does not, it may be > life-threatening. It is pretty serious now. If you do not hear from > him, it is because he is in the hospital starting this weekend. > > You know what to do, his name is Hanoch ben Zeisel. Please bring his > name before the Almighty in all your prayers and services and "stand > in" for healing for him. > > Steve > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090117/5e624a0d/attachment.html From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com Sat Jan 17 22:59:04 2009 From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:59:04 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch, Sat. night news Message-ID: <200901180459.n0I4x5P2032348@mail384c25.carrierzone.com> Friends, Have talked to Hanoch tonight. Says he has been in and out of sleep all day, with headaches. Will see doctor Sunday AM. Exam there will determine if he is to go into the hospital straight from there. His doctor is VERY concerned. I will let you know new developments as soon as I know tomorrow. Keep praying everyone. Steve From ptyler at aac-usa.com Sun Jan 18 09:26:37 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (ptyler at aac-usa.com) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:26:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch In-Reply-To: References: <2964F1E9-D2A2-41EE-AC91-DCD0D5C52CD6@earthlink.net> <00a501c978ae$fccc2650$fff67f45@rayterry> <42F8F5D6-026A-436D-9248-9EE0753814BC@earthlink.net> <9546F951-5068-46F5-9A1E-B05FE0B51BA5@earthlink.net> <49728ebe.16048e0a.4e11.36f7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <43835.12.45.64.131.1232292397.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> Hi All, Is this the same Hanoch that I know? How did this infection happen? I will definitely keep him in my prayers. Patty From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sun Jan 18 10:20:07 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:20:07 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch In-Reply-To: <43835.12.45.64.131.1232292397.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> References: <2964F1E9-D2A2-41EE-AC91-DCD0D5C52CD6@earthlink.net> <00a501c978ae$fccc2650$fff67f45@rayterry> <42F8F5D6-026A-436D-9248-9EE0753814BC@earthlink.net> <9546F951-5068-46F5-9A1E-B05FE0B51BA5@earthlink.net> <49728ebe.16048e0a.4e11.36f7@mx.google.com> <43835.12.45.64.131.1232292397.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> Message-ID: Yes, Patty, it's Hanoch. Thank you so much for praying. We don't know the particulars yet, but he needs our prayers urgently. Love, Pat> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:26:37 -0500> From: ptyler at aac-usa.com> To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org> Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch> > Hi All,> > Is this the same Hanoch that I know? How did this infection happen? I will> definitely keep him in my prayers.> > Patty> > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090118/ff29df6f/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Sun Jan 18 10:39:30 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (ptyler at aac-usa.com) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:39:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch In-Reply-To: References: <2964F1E9-D2A2-41EE-AC91-DCD0D5C52CD6@earthlink.net> <00a501c978ae$fccc2650$fff67f45@rayterry> <42F8F5D6-026A-436D-9248-9EE0753814BC@earthlink.net> <9546F951-5068-46F5-9A1E-B05FE0B51BA5@earthlink.net> <49728ebe.16048e0a.4e11.36f7@mx.google.com> <43835.12.45.64.131.1232292397.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> Message-ID: <20024.12.45.64.131.1232296770.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> Thank you Pat, the poor dear, does anyone know how it happened? Love, patty > Yes, Patty, it's Hanoch. Thank you so much for praying. We don't know > the particulars yet, but he needs our prayers urgently. > > Love, > > Pat> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:26:37 -0500> From: ptyler at aac-usa.com> To: > dialogue at rootsoffaith.org> Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch> > Hi All,> > Is > this the same Hanoch that I know? How did this infection happen? I will> > definitely keep him in my prayers.> > Patty> > > ______________________________________________________________________________________________ > From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sun Jan 18 10:43:31 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:43:31 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch In-Reply-To: <20024.12.45.64.131.1232296770.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> References: <2964F1E9-D2A2-41EE-AC91-DCD0D5C52CD6@earthlink.net> <00a501c978ae$fccc2650$fff67f45@rayterry> <42F8F5D6-026A-436D-9248-9EE0753814BC@earthlink.net> <9546F951-5068-46F5-9A1E-B05FE0B51BA5@earthlink.net> <49728ebe.16048e0a.4e11.36f7@mx.google.com> <43835.12.45.64.131.1232292397.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> <20024.12.45.64.131.1232296770.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> Message-ID: Information is sketchy. I think some may know, but I don't. I just know that prayer is urgently needed.> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:39:30 -0500> Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Hanoch> From: ptyler at aac-usa.com> To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org> > Thank you Pat, the poor dear, does anyone know how it happened?> > Love,> patty> > > > Yes, Patty, it's Hanoch. Thank you so much for praying. We don't know> > the particulars yet, but he needs our prayers urgently.> >> > Love,> >> > Pat> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:26:37 -0500> From: ptyler at aac-usa.com> To:> > dialogue at rootsoffaith.org> Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch> > Hi All,> > Is> > this the same Hanoch that I know? How did this infection happen? I will>> > definitely keep him in my prayers.> > Patty> >> > ______________________________________________________________________________________________> >> > > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090118/1d1b1592/attachment.html From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com Sun Jan 18 16:04:13 2009 From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:04:13 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch confined to bed Message-ID: <200901182204.n0IM4Cps027525@mail383c25.carrierzone.com> Gang, I just spoke with Hanoch, his fever and headaches are down, and this is a good sign. It is still touchy and doctor is wary of the condition at this time. Hanoch will be confined to his bed and taking the anti-biotics outside a hospital. He is not out of the woods yet. Your prayers are still required and appreciated. Gratefully on my and his behalf, Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090118/786732bb/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:06:17 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:06:17 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch confined to bed In-Reply-To: <200901182204.n0IM4Cps027525@mail383c25.carrierzone.com> References: <200901182204.n0IM4Cps027525@mail383c25.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: Baruch HaShem that he has not had to be hospitalized! Will keep praying for his complete healing. Pat From: Steve Mathe Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 5:04 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch confined to bed Gang, I just spoke with Hanoch, his fever and headaches are down, and this is a good sign. It is still touchy and doctor is wary of the condition at this time. Hanoch will be confined to his bed and taking the anti-biotics outside a hospital. He is not out of the woods yet. Your prayers are still required and appreciated. Gratefully on my and his behalf, Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090118/32fcbbb2/attachment.html From j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net Sun Jan 18 19:49:42 2009 From: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net (Helen Lusk) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:49:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Dialogue] Tonight's broadcast of SWW Message-ID: <105072.85175.qm@web82508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Ross: ? Tonight I was able to listen to part of the Sunday Shul broadcast for the first time. (holiday tomorrow so don't have to get up at 3am). I was truly uplifted and blessed. May Hashem continue to bless your work and give you the widsom and strength to continue this outreach. Wish I could listen more often. ? Have a great week everyone. ? Shalom and kind regards, ? Helen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090118/a01b90d5/attachment.html From j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net Sun Jan 18 21:12:00 2009 From: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net (Helen Lusk) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:12:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Dialogue] My granddaughter's Bat Mitzvah Message-ID: <255118.69493.qm@web82501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear All: ? Since I am off tomorrow and have some extra time, I thought I would share some news about the time I spent from December 31st thru January 11th down in NC? with my daughter and family for Caroline's.,my granddaughter's, Bat Mitzvah. Adrienne and Larry (my daughter and son-in -law) adopted Caroline aged 8?and Thomas aged 5 (brother and sister from the western part of NC in the spring on 2003. They were attending Beit Shalom synagogue in New Bern NC and brought the children there. In 2005 they were blessed to have their own child Grahm Isaac and in 2006 they were all converted to Judaism. Adrienne and Larry are very active in the synagogue and Adrienne heads up the education dept and Sunday school. They do not have a full time Rabbi but Rabbi James Apple from Wilmington is hired several times a year and has been a God send to Adrienne and Larry and their family and? has gone far beyond all; expectations in loving this family and doing everything in his power to help the comgregation. In March 2008 they were blessed to have another child, Olivia Sarah Grace, however? just before her birth, Caroline had peritonitis and almost died. She spent 2 weeks in the hospital after emergency surgery. In Hashem;s mercy she survived and it had a profound effect on her. On January 9th this year, one day after her 14th birthday she had her Bat Mitzvah and and had worked very hard to be ready for this day with Rabbi Apple's help. She related and paralleled her life experience to Joseph's and how she had thought everything was against her (anger that her birth parents had not been able to care for her etc) and how she had come to realize when she almost died that Hashem had a purpose for her and would bring good out of her loss and suffering and how much she appreciated having a family who care for her and also?an extended family in the synagogue who also love and care for her. Adrienne also home schools Caroline and Thomas ( I don't know how she does it all). The service was very emotional and moving and it was wonderful to see and experience what Hashem has done.. Larry's parents and sister and children also attended. Larry's parents and we were all from an Evangelical Free Church background back in Connecticut since 1970 and Jim and I were considered Judaisers when we questioned and finally left the church in our search for truth around 1986-87..We stopped celebrating the pagan holidays in 1990 and you can imagine how we were ostracized and lost all our friends. Adrienne and Larry respected our decisions and later moved to NC in 1996. Their decision to follow Judaism came of their own accord, but they in turn received a lot of condemnation from Larry's parents. Larry has one sister who spent one summer in Irian Jaya as a missionary and his other sister is married to a pastor, so you can imagine how far we have all come. Now Larry' mother lights Sabbath candles and one sister is very open to Torah and the other we don't know about yet, but she came to the Bat Mitzvah and renewing of Wedding vows (finally a Jewish wedding as Adrienne says) for Adrienne and Larry last August ? I marvel and am very thankful as I look and see what Hashem has done! ? Kind regards, ? Helen. ?p.s. Caroline's Bat Mitvah project was to?to collect and donate a children' s DVD library to the pediatric ward in the hospital in Jacksonville, NC where she?was when she was ill. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090118/bddfd8d9/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Sun Jan 18 22:02:35 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:02:35 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Two Encounters that Changed Everything... Message-ID: <7E704B2B-4BB0-4381-B55C-D1E3C9D09827@earthlink.net> Yesterday on Shabbat Jews and other Torah oriented folk who follow the weekly cycle of Torah readings (Parashot) begin the second scroll of the Torah, namely Exodus or "Shemot" in Hebrew. In Hebrew the books of the Torah take their names from the first key word of the opening line, in this case "These are the names (Heb shemot) of the sons of Israel who came to Egypt with Jacob, each coming with his own household (Exodus 1:1). Likewise, each Torah reading, week by week, takes its name from the first words of the first line of a given section or division, so in this case, the name of the first Torah reading from the book of Exodus is the same as the book itself--Shemot/Names, and runs from Exodus 1:1 through 6:1. It is a rather amazing prelude to the Exodus story, not only providing the account of the birth of Moses, the greatest Prophet of human history (see Deut 34:10), but it quickly covers, in summary fashion, his life up to age 80 when he is tending the flocks of his father-in- law Jethro, in the area of Horeb, which is most likely known today as Paran, in the NE Sinai peninsula. At age 80 one would think, given the history of Moses's flight as a fugitive from Egypt, and his 40 years in the household of Jethro, that his life was basically set with the main events now past. Yet the rest of the Torah recounts the final 40 years of Moses's life, that proved to be more critical than any of his previous 80 years. At the core of his subsequent story, and at the absolute center of his experiences, was his initial encounter with YHVH, whom he encountered as mysterious voice emerging from a flaming bush that was somehow not consumed but kept burning brightly as he got closer. Then he heard, "Moses Moses," and one who identified himself in the first person: "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Moses took off his shoes and hid his face--for the ground itself was holy through this unprecedented manifestation of YHVH. It was this fateful encounter that changed the history of the world. Moses is called in the Torah the "meekest man in all the earth" (Numbers 12:3), and he considers himself wholly inadequate for the awesome task God assigns to him--namely to go to the Pharoah of Egypt and tell him face to face--YHVH, the God of Israel, commands you to Let My People Go." It is difficult to read these words today without putting this familiar story into the category of a "Bible story," far removed from the real world of nations, peoples, and governments such as ours today. Step back and actually try to imagine Moses as a shepherd in the desert, following the extraordinary life experiences of his past, long ago having given up on any significant role to his life beyond his family--and suddenly having this encounter that turned everything around and ended up changing everything--setting the stage for the Mt Sinai encounter and revelation, the greatest even in human history. One has to think back to Abraham, who in Genesis 12, also heard a voice, the manner of which is not reported, but is told to leave his country and kindred to a land that he would be shown--to pull up everything and become the first "Hebrew," or wandering one who had left the civilization beyond the River (Euphrates) following a vision and a voice in his head that promised him a destiny that would change the world. When you think about it, Abraham and Moses, and their two encounters with YHVH, both decisive in their own way, become the foundation of all that subsequently follows... Good week to all, and especially to our dear brother Hanoch, James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090118/c1bab54d/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sun Jan 18 23:28:02 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 00:28:02 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] My granddaughter's Bat Mitzvah In-Reply-To: <255118.69493.qm@web82501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <255118.69493.qm@web82501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Helen, THANK YOU for this most precious letter! What an amazing story and what an amazing family!!!! I'm so blessed by your having shared your family's love of HaShem with us. My heart is so deeply touched by all that you said here. I just wish it had been longer!!! I grew to love Caroline in just these few sentences! Shavua tov, Dear One, Pat From: Helen Lusk Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 10:12 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org ; uilist at unitedisrael.org Subject: [Dialogue] My granddaughter's Bat Mitzvah Dear All: Since I am off tomorrow and have some extra time, I thought I would share some news about the time I spent from December 31st thru January 11th down in NC with my daughter and family for Caroline's.,my granddaughter's, Bat Mitzvah. Adrienne and Larry (my daughter and son-in -law) adopted Caroline aged 8 and Thomas aged 5 (brother and sister from the western part of NC in the spring on 2003. They were attending Beit Shalom synagogue in New Bern NC and brought the children there. In 2005 they were blessed to have their own child Grahm Isaac and in 2006 they were all converted to Judaism. Adrienne and Larry are very active in the synagogue and Adrienne heads up the education dept and Sunday school. They do not have a full time Rabbi but Rabbi James Apple from Wilmington is hired several times a year and has been a God send to Adrienne and Larry and their family and has gone far beyond all; expectations in loving this family and doing everything in his power to help the comgregation. In March 2008 they were blessed to have another child, Olivia Sarah Grace, however just before her birth, Caroline had peritonitis and almost died. She spent 2 weeks in the hospital after emergency surgery. In Hashem;s mercy she survived and it had a profound effect on her. On January 9th this year, one day after her 14th birthday she had her Bat Mitzvah and and had worked very hard to be ready for this day with Rabbi Apple's help. She related and paralleled her life experience to Joseph's and how she had thought everything was against her (anger that her birth parents had not been able to care for her etc) and how she had come to realize when she almost died that Hashem had a purpose for her and would bring good out of her loss and suffering and how much she appreciated having a family who care for her and also an extended family in the synagogue who also love and care for her. Adrienne also home schools Caroline and Thomas ( I don't know how she does it all). The service was very emotional and moving and it was wonderful to see and experience what Hashem has done.. Larry's parents and sister and children also attended. Larry's parents and we were all from an Evangelical Free Church background back in Connecticut since 1970 and Jim and I were considered Judaisers when we questioned and finally left the church in our search for truth around 1986-87..We stopped celebrating the pagan holidays in 1990 and you can imagine how we were ostracized and lost all our friends. Adrienne and Larry respected our decisions and later moved to NC in 1996. Their decision to follow Judaism came of their own accord, but they in turn received a lot of condemnation from Larry's parents. Larry has one sister who spent one summer in Irian Jaya as a missionary and his other sister is married to a pastor, so you can imagine how far we have all come. Now Larry' mother lights Sabbath candles and one sister is very open to Torah and the other we don't know about yet, but she came to the Bat Mitzvah and renewing of Wedding vows (finally a Jewish wedding as Adrienne says) for Adrienne and Larry last August I marvel and am very thankful as I look and see what Hashem has done! Kind regards, Helen. p.s. Caroline's Bat Mitvah project was to to collect and donate a children' s DVD library to the pediatric ward in the hospital in Jacksonville, NC where she was when she was ill. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090119/a4010c93/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sun Jan 18 23:39:27 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 00:39:27 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Two Encounters that Changed Everything... In-Reply-To: <7E704B2B-4BB0-4381-B55C-D1E3C9D09827@earthlink.net> References: <7E704B2B-4BB0-4381-B55C-D1E3C9D09827@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Beautiful, and most appreciated, James! Thank you so much. And I too am thinking of and praying for Hanoch and wishing him a Shavua Tov. Pat From: James Tabor Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:02 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Two Encounters that Changed Everything... Yesterday on Shabbat Jews and other Torah oriented folk who follow the weekly cycle of Torah readings (Parashot) begin the second scroll of the Torah, namely Exodus or "Shemot" in Hebrew. In Hebrew the books of the Torah take their names from the first key word of the opening line, in this case "These are the names (Heb shemot) of the sons of Israel who came to Egypt with Jacob, each coming with his own household (Exodus 1:1). Likewise, each Torah reading, week by week, takes its name from the first words of the first line of a given section or division, so in this case, the name of the first Torah reading from the book of Exodus is the same as the book itself--Shemot/Names, and runs from Exodus 1:1 through 6:1. It is a rather amazing prelude to the Exodus story, not only providing the account of the birth of Moses, the greatest Prophet of human history (see Deut 34:10), but it quickly covers, in summary fashion, his life up to age 80 when he is tending the flocks of his father-in-law Jethro, in the area of Horeb, which is most likely known today as Paran, in the NE Sinai peninsula. At age 80 one would think, given the history of Moses's flight as a fugitive from Egypt, and his 40 years in the household of Jethro, that his life was basically set with the main events now past. Yet the rest of the Torah recounts the final 40 years of Moses's life, that proved to be more critical than any of his previous 80 years. At the core of his subsequent story, and at the absolute center of his experiences, was his initial encounter with YHVH, whom he encountered as mysterious voice emerging from a flaming bush that was somehow not consumed but kept burning brightly as he got closer. Then he heard, "Moses Moses," and one who identified himself in the first person: "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Moses took off his shoes and hid his face--for the ground itself was holy through this unprecedented manifestation of YHVH. It was this fateful encounter that changed the history of the world. Moses is called in the Torah the "meekest man in all the earth" (Numbers 12:3), and he considers himself wholly inadequate for the awesome task God assigns to him--namely to go to the Pharoah of Egypt and tell him face to face--YHVH, the God of Israel, commands you to Let My People Go." It is difficult to read these words today without putting this familiar story into the category of a "Bible story," far removed from the real world of nations, peoples, and governments such as ours today. Step back and actually try to imagine Moses as a shepherd in the desert, following the extraordinary life experiences of his past, long ago having given up on any significant role to his life beyond his family--and suddenly having this encounter that turned everything around and ended up changing everything--setting the stage for the Mt Sinai encounter and revelation, the greatest even in human history. One has to think back to Abraham, who in Genesis 12, also heard a voice, the manner of which is not reported, but is told to leave his country and kindred to a land that he would be shown--to pull up everything and become the first "Hebrew," or wandering one who had left the civilization beyond the River (Euphrates) following a vision and a voice in his head that promised him a destiny that would change the world. When you think about it, Abraham and Moses, and their two encounters with YHVH, both decisive in their own way, become the foundation of all that subsequently follows... Good week to all, and especially to our dear brother Hanoch, James -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090119/eb6af05b/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Mon Jan 19 14:50:35 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:50:35 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] My granddaughter's Bat Mitzvah] Message-ID: <4974E79B.70008@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/7c8322e0/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Helen Lusk Subject: [Dialogue] My granddaughter's Bat Mitzvah Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:12:00 -0800 (PST) Size: 11434 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/7c8322e0/attachment.eml From bkgivin at charter.net Mon Jan 19 17:52:05 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:52:05 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] My granddaughter's Bat Mitzvah] In-Reply-To: <4974E79B.70008@westnet.com.au> References: <4974E79B.70008@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <802616CC44224576A2BC6BC5C9728DFE@bettylaptop> I echo Joe's words, Helen. This is a most moving tribute to you and Jim and the legacy you are leaving to your children and now grandchildren. As converts, I know it has been most difficult for you, yet you & Jim and Adrienne and Larry have persevered and are now seeing the fruits of your dedication in your precious granddaughter, Caroline. She sounds like an amazing young person who is mature beyond her years, one who had the wisdom and courage to turn suffering and hurt into courage and in so doing has reached into a wellspring of understanding that many do not experience in a lifetime. I love the Hebrew expression, dor v' dor (from generation to generation) and all that it entails. I wish we could have been there to see the Torah passed from you and Jim to Adrienne and Larry and finally to Caroline. I pray for that opportunity to come to pass in my life one day. Thank you so much for sharing this lovely and inspiring story. I know it must fill your heart with joy. Mazel tov & Siman tov! And a big Baruch HaShem! Love & Blessings to you and your family, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Joe Indomenico Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 2:51 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] My granddaughter's Bat Mitzvah] Shalom Helen, Baruch HaShem, what a moving personal family journey !!!! Baruch HaShem for your dedication together with Jim on your lonely quest for the truth for the past 21 years, albeit against all the condemnation. You are now seeing the fruit of your emunah through your children and grandchildren with outreaching ripples. Baruch HaShem and Mazel Tov & Siman Tov for your granddaughter's Bat Mitzvah. May HaShem bless Rabbi James Apple for his dedication and assistance to Adrienne and Larry in Caroline's Bat Mitzvah. And Baruch HaShem, Helen for sharing this wonderful experience with us. Good news always uplifts the soul when confronted with all the sadness in the world. This is always compared to the ray of sunshine and the glimmer of hope that outshines all the darkness in the world. Yours is a story of love and dedication ,of Emunah and Bitachon. May HaShem bless you all. Finally, may HaShem bless and fill Caroline's life with all His loving kindness . May all her past sorrows reinforce her as she admits by the story of Yosef, and be reversed into well springs of joy and happiness to outreach to others and be a comfort to those that surround her. She truely is a remarkable daughter of HaShem. Todah Rabbah again Helen. Regards and best wishes to all your family and loved ones. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090119/69d66114/attachment.html From j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 19 18:43:26 2009 From: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net (Helen Lusk) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:43:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: II Kings Chapter 25; Daniel Chapter 1 Message-ID: <891721.62864.qm@web82504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Interesting site I found and thought it might be of interest to some to follow through the book of Daniel. ? Kind regards, ? Helen --- On Thu, 1/15/09, AZAMRA Bible wrote: From: AZAMRA Bible Subject: II Kings Chapter 25; Daniel Chapter 1 To: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 6:02 PM BS"D KNOW YOUR BIBLE: II Kings Chapter 25; Daniel Chapter 1 Study Notes by Avraham ben Yaakov II KINGS CHAPTER 25 The grim closing chapter of the Book of Kings laconically records stage by stage the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, the cruel fate of Tzidkiyahu king of Judah and other leading figures of the priesthood and royal court, the exile of most of the remaining population of Judea to Babylon and the final collapse of the last vestiges of Judean independence with the assassination of Gedaliah son of Ahikam. Our present text is supplemented by the parallel account in II Chronicles ch 36 and in particular by the detailed narrative in Jeremiah chs 37-44 & 52, as well as in various passages in Ezekiel, who prophesied in Babylon during the period of the destruction of the First Temple. The full horror of the siege and capture of Jerusalem and the subsequent exile is graphically expressed in Lamentations and its accompanying midrashim as well as in many passages in the KINOS ("mourning dirges") recited on the anniversary of the destruction of the Temple on Tisha Be-Av (9th of the month of Av, July-August). Nebuchadnezzar began his siege of Jerusalem "in the tenth month on the tenth of the month" (v 1). This is commemorated by the Fast of the 10th Teves (December-January), the tenth month counting from Nissan. In verse 4 we learn that the city walls were breached "on the ninth of the month", and in Jeremiah 52:6 we learn that this was in the fourth month (=Tammuz, July). The Jerusalem Talmud (Ta'anis 4) brings an opinion that as a result of the great distress and confusion at that time, the actual date was confused, and that the breach in the city walls in fact took place on 17th Tammuz, the same date as the breach in the walls of Jerusalem by the Romans in the time of the destruction of the Second Temple. These events are thus commemorated in the fast of 17th Tammuz. Rashi on v 4 tells us that King Tzidkiyahu had a secret tunnel that led from his house to the plains of Jericho through which he tried to flee. However the Holy One blessed be He arranged that a deer passed by over the opening of the cave outside the city, and when some Babylonian troops chased after the deer they saw the king and captured him, fulfilling the prophecy of Ezekiel, "And I shall spread My net upon him and he will be caught in My trap" (Ezekiel 12:13). Although we read in the previous chapter that Tzidkiyahu "did evil in the eyes of HaShem" (II Kings 24:19), the rabbis said that in fact Tzidkiyahu was the saving grace of his generation: "The Holy One blessed be He wanted to return the whole world to formlessness and void on account of the generation of Tzidkiyahu, but when he looked at Tzidkiyahu He calmed down. Then why does it say that 'he did evil in God's eyes'? Because he had the power to protest against what the people of his generation were doing but he failed to do so" (Sanhedrin 103a). "And in the fifth month on the seventh of the month? he burned the House of God?" (vv 8-9). The fifth month is Av. The parallel account in Jeremiah (52:12) states that the burning of the Temple took place on the TENTH of the month of Av. The rabbis resolved the discrepancy by explaining that the Babylonians entered the Sanctuary on the 7th Av and then ate, drank and desecrated and damaged the Temple until the late afternoon of the 9th, when they set it on fire, and it kept on burning until it was completely destroyed on the 10th (Taanis 29a). Since the moment when the Temple was actually set on fire was the most serious, the fast commemorating its destruction was fixed on the 9th Av. "And every GREAT house he burned with fire" (v 9): this refers to the study halls and synagogues of Jerusalem, which were destroyed together with everything else (Rashi ad loc.) Many of the Temple treasures had already been looted in earlier raids (II Kings 24:13), including the gold with which Solomon had overlaid the carved wood paneling that covered the Temple walls on the interior. The account of the bronze vessels that were now looted, including Solomon's pool and the massive pillars with their ornate capitals that flanked the entrance to the Sanctuary Vestibule (OOLAM) echoes the account of how these glorious adornments were originally made by Hiram four centuries earlier (I Kings ch 7) in order to enhance our understanding of the magnitude of the disaster that now struck. Unlike the Assyrians, the Babylonians did not go in for population EXCHANGE, but simply exiled most of the Judean population to Babylon without importing other peoples to occupy their former lands. Thus Judea was mostly left barren and empty, except for "the poor of the land" who were left to be "vine-dressers and field-workers" (v 12). According to the rabbis, these "vine-dressers" were in fact left to collect the luxury balsam oil from Eyn Gedi and the surrounding areas, while the "field-workers" continued to harvest the HILAZON snails whose blood was used in the manufacture of TECHEILES blue-dye from the coastal strip from Tyre to Haifa (Shabbos 26a). The Babylonians left Gedaliah son of Ahikam as governor over the remaining Jewish population in Judea. Gedaliah, who was a Tzaddik, followed the policy endorsed by the prophets of accepting the decree of subjugation to Babylon and collaborating with the occupying power. Because of this he was assassinated by those who stubbornly persisted in the belief that they could still fight for Judean independence. His assassination, which is described in greater detail in Jeremiah and which led to the final collapse of the last vestige of Jewish semi-independence in Judea, is commemorated annually by the Fast of Gedaliah on the 3rd of Tishri (the seventh month, September), immediately following the two-day Rosh HaShanah festival. Our present chapter thus enumerates all the events that are commemorated in the four annual fasts relating to the destruction of the Temple: 17 Tammuz, 9 Av, 3 Tishri and 10 Teves. Only in the closing verses of this chapter (vv 27-30) is there any relief from the overall gloom with the account of how immediately after the death of Nebuchadnezzar, his son and successor Eveel Merodokh released Yeho-yachin (who had been exiled and deposed from the throne of Judah in favor of Tzidkiyahu) from prison. The Babylonian king gave Yeho-yachin food from his table. Thus the very curse that King David had put on his commander-in-chief Joab ? that his descendants would be lacking in bread ? was fulfilled on David's own descendant, who depended for bread on the king of Babylon (Sanhedrin 48b). May we speedily see the fulfillment of the prophecy of Zechariah that "the fast of the fourth and the fast of the fifth and the fast of the seventh and the fast of the tenth (months) will be for rejoicing and happiness for the House of Judah" (Zechariah 8:19). DANIEL CHAPTER 1 There could be few better introductions to the book of Daniel than the opening words of R. Avraham Ibn Ezra's commentary thereon: "This is the book of the man greatly beloved, in which the most glorious of things are spoken, with prophecies some of which have already come about and others that are still destined to come about. Each thing is expressed with brevity in mysteries and riddles, while its secrets reside with the angels above ? secrets that stand upon all the foundational elements ? and its commentators have not succeeded in penetrating its secret. Each one explains as far as his hand reaches, but the feet of all of them are unsteady when it comes to the time of the destined end?" The rabbis said: "If all the wise men of the nations of the world were on one side of the scale and Daniel on the other, he would outweigh them all" (Yoma 77a). Daniel himself was considered not a PROPHET (NAVEE) but a wise and saintly SAGE (HACHAM), yet he saw what even the prophets did not see" (Sanhedrin 93b; see Daniel 10:7). >From the point of view of historical narrative, the book of Daniel takes up the story of the exile of Judah in Babylon from time of the first phase of the exile, which took place under King Yeho-yakim, as told in II Kings ch 24. This was eighteen years before the destruction of the Temple and, together with the exile of Yeho-yakim's son Yeho-yachin a year later, brought to Babylon the very flower of the Judean population, including all those righteous Judeans who heeded the message of the prophets of the time and accepted the decree of exile with resignation instead of trying to fight it. Nebuchadnezzar was a ruthless but highly complex and very deep world ruler who was determined to use the minds and intellects of the very cream of the captive Judeans to serve his needs in governing and expanding his empire. "Because you did not serve HaShem your God? you shall serve your enemies" (Deut. 28:47). "If you had been worthy, you would have been called My servants, but now that you have not been worthy, you are servants of Nebuchadnezzar and his companions" (Yalkut Shimoni). Nebuchadnezzar ordered his chief minister to choose an elite of good-looking, super-intelligent and wise Judean children who would be well fed and specially educated for service in his court. One of the requirements was that "they must have the ability to stand in the palace of the king" (v 4). The Talmud picturesquely explains this to mean that they would have to be able to control themselves so as not to laugh, chat or fall asleep during lengthy court sessions as well as holding themselves in if they felt the need to relieve themselves (Rashi ad loc., Sanhedrin 93b). Daniel was determined not to defile and sully himself with the royal food that was provided for these privileged Judean captive children, exemplifying the very first rule of Jewish spiritual survival in exile: METICULOUS OBSERVANCE OF THE LAWS OF KASHRUS (spiritual purity of food). Daniel and his companions understood that the food we ingest nourishes not only our physical bodies but fuels and influences our very minds and souls. They knew that ingesting the royal food, whose ingredients and methods of preparation went contrary to Torah law, would corrupt their subtlest spiritual sensitivities and indeed their entire outlook on everything, destroying their Jewish purity. With a courage comparable to that of Joseph in his years of captivity in Egypt, they secured the agreement of the king's catering officer to test them out on a diet of vegetables and water for ten days in what must have been one of the first macrobiotic experiments in history. They had astounding success, proving healthier than all the other children who did eat the king's food. When Daniel and his companions were finally taken before Nebuchadnezzar, they brought about a great sanctification of the Name of God even in exile, showing that it was precisely the Torah-observant Jewish captives who outweighed all the sages, wizards and diviners of the Babylonian empire. The closing verse of our present chapter (v 21) which tells us that Daniel remained in a position of influence until "the first year of King Koresh (=Cyrus)", is open to a variety of interpretations (see Rashi ad loc.) Some rabbis held that Daniel retained his influence only until the reign of Koresh I, who ruled before Ahashverosh, while others held that he remained until the reign of Koresh II (=Darius II) who ruled after Ahashverosh (Megillah 15a). The chronology of the empires that succeeded that of Babylon will be discussed in later commentaries. ABY To subscribe to the KNOW YOUR BIBLE email list or consult our BIBLE COMMENTARY ARCHIVE, go to http://azamra.org/NaCh.shtml -- AZAMRA INSTITUTE PO Box 50037 Jerusalem 91500 Israel www.azamra.org _____________________________ Change address / Leave mailing list: http://ymlp188.com/u.php?YMLPID=gbmebwgsguhuwgyqw Hosting by YourMailingListProvider -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090119/8849e1e7/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Mon Jan 19 19:20:27 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:20:27 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] B'Ahavah Rabba Message-ID: As some of you may know, the Ahavah Rabbah, is the lovely traditional prayer that is said immediately before the Shema in the siddur or Jewish Prayer Book. It speaks of the everlasting love of HaShem for us, and asks that He have mercy upon us, that He teach us not only to understand, but to do His Torah, that He enlighten our eyes in His Torah and attach our hearts to His commandments; and then, in compassion, that he break the yoke of the nations from our necks and bring us back to from the four corners of the earth. It ends with the blessing, "Baruch ata Adonai, habocheir b'amo Yisrael b'ahavah. Or "Blessed are You, HaShem, who chooses His people Israel with love. "It is a most beautiful prayer filled with so much meaning. I have always preferred a more traditional siddur, such as the Artscroll (Sephardic version), as this is the one that I have used for many years and will continue to use for my personal prayers. However, at my synagogue we have another siddur, which lends itself more to the Conservative or Reform movement. There are many similarities, but there are some differences. Sometimes they will have the original prayer in the Hebrew on one side of the page and then on the other, will give several additional readings that might focus on one or two thoughts contained in the prayer. One such example is the additional reading given for the beautiful Ahavah Rabbah prayer. As I read it, I was so struck by its message and how pertinent it was to me and I believe to many of us who have literally "left" our past faith and its trappings behind in search of the Ancient Path simply because we felt an undeniable urging and quickening of the heart.a tug of the heartstrings, if you will, by Adonai Eloheynu, HaShem our G-d! I thought especially of you, Helen, and the moving account of your granddaughter's bat mitzvah, and all that you and Jim and your family went thru to be enabled to come to this present time. Was the "leaving" hard? Yes. Would you, would we, do it all again? Yes, without a doubt, for it is so very much worth it all. I would like to share this short reading with you all and hope that it means as much to you as it did to me. ONCE OR TWICE in a lifetime A man or woman may choose, A radical leaving, having heard Lech l'cha,...Go forth. G-d disturbs us toward our destiny By hard events and by freedom's now urgent voice Which explode and confirm who we are. We don't like leaving, But G-d loves becoming. Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090119/92ade17f/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Mon Jan 19 19:59:04 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:59:04 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Two Encounters that Changed Everything... In-Reply-To: References: <7E704B2B-4BB0-4381-B55C-D1E3C9D09827@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Yes, Pat, I agree. What a rich Torah portion! Thanks, James, for these thoughts. Where would we be without either of these two great, yet humble men of G-d, who after hearing the call of G-d, basically left it all and followed His Call? And this same G-d, this Yud Hey Vav Heh, has down thru the ages placed His Call on many hearts, and will continue to do so in these last days.not in such dramatic ways, but nevertheless many have felt the pull of the heartstrings towards the G-d of Israel and His Torah, towards the Ancient Paths. And to think of how we are all somehow connected to this awesome G-d, and that He is our G-d, and that it is thru His blessings and His promises that we are connected to our Father Abraham and to Moses and to the Torah and to those who stood at Sinai...is indeed mind boggling. In another email, I included a quote from a reading in our prayer book that is so appropriate here, for it speaks of just this.how each of us who are on this Torah path, have received a "Lech l'cha," of sorts. (See Gen 12:1. "Go for yourself" or "Walk for yourself.") I will copy and paste it below in case some of you missed it the first time.it really hit me! ONCE OR TWICE in a lifetime A man or woman may choose, A radical leaving, having heard Lech l'cha,...Go forth. G-d disturbs us toward our destiny By hard events and by freedom's now urgent voice Which explode and confirm who we are. We don't like leaving, But G-d loves becoming. Shavuah Tov to all! Elisheva/Betty P.S. Any word from Hanoch? _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Patricia Robbins Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:39 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Two Encounters that Changed Everything... Beautiful, and most appreciated, James! Thank you so much. And I too am thinking of and praying for Hanoch and wishing him a Shavua Tov. Pat From: James Tabor Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:02 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Two Encounters that Changed Everything... Yesterday on Shabbat Jews and other Torah oriented folk who follow the weekly cycle of Torah readings (Parashot) begin the second scroll of the Torah, namely Exodus or "Shemot" in Hebrew. In Hebrew the books of the Torah take their names from the first key word of the opening line, in this case "These are the names (Heb shemot) of the sons of Israel who came to Egypt with Jacob, each coming with his own household (Exodus 1:1). Likewise, each Torah reading, week by week, takes its name from the first words of the first line of a given section or division, so in this case, the name of the first Torah reading from the book of Exodus is the same as the book itself--Shemot/Names, and runs from Exodus 1:1 through 6:1. It is a rather amazing prelude to the Exodus story, not only providing the account of the birth of Moses, the greatest Prophet of human history (see Deut 34:10), but it quickly covers, in summary fashion, his life up to age 80 when he is tending the flocks of his father-in-law Jethro, in the area of Horeb, which is most likely known today as Paran, in the NE Sinai peninsula. At age 80 one would think, given the history of Moses's flight as a fugitive from Egypt, and his 40 years in the household of Jethro, that his life was basically set with the main events now past. Yet the rest of the Torah recounts the final 40 years of Moses's life, that proved to be more critical than any of his previous 80 years. At the core of his subsequent story, and at the absolute center of his experiences, was his initial encounter with YHVH, whom he encountered as mysterious voice emerging from a flaming bush that was somehow not consumed but kept burning brightly as he got closer. Then he heard, "Moses Moses," and one who identified himself in the first person: "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Moses took off his shoes and hid his face--for the ground itself was holy through this unprecedented manifestation of YHVH. It was this fateful encounter that changed the history of the world. Moses is called in the Torah the "meekest man in all the earth" (Numbers 12:3), and he considers himself wholly inadequate for the awesome task God assigns to him--namely to go to the Pharoah of Egypt and tell him face to face--YHVH, the God of Israel, commands you to Let My People Go." It is difficult to read these words today without putting this familiar story into the category of a "Bible story," far removed from the real world of nations, peoples, and governments such as ours today. Step back and actually try to imagine Moses as a shepherd in the desert, following the extraordinary life experiences of his past, long ago having given up on any significant role to his life beyond his family--and suddenly having this encounter that turned everything around and ended up changing everything--setting the stage for the Mt Sinai encounter and revelation, the greatest even in human history. One has to think back to Abraham, who in Genesis 12, also heard a voice, the manner of which is not reported, but is told to leave his country and kindred to a land that he would be shown--to pull up everything and become the first "Hebrew," or wandering one who had left the civilization beyond the River (Euphrates) following a vision and a voice in his head that promised him a destiny that would change the world. When you think about it, Abraham and Moses, and their two encounters with YHVH, both decisive in their own way, become the foundation of all that subsequently follows... Good week to all, and especially to our dear brother Hanoch, James _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090119/76986cf1/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Mon Jan 19 21:01:52 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:01:52 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Two Encounters that Changed Everything... In-Reply-To: References: <7E704B2B-4BB0-4381-B55C-D1E3C9D09827@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Love it, Betty!!!! I always love reading what you write! Have heard no further word about Hanoch since Steve's email yesterday saying that the Dr. allowed him to remain at home on condition that he stay in bed for several days. His temperature was down and his headaches had gotten better, so it appears that the antibiotic is working............BARUCH HASHEM! We just need to keep praying! Lech l'cha, Pat From: Betty Givin Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 8:59 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Two Encounters that Changed Everything... Yes, Pat, I agree. What a rich Torah portion! Thanks, James, for these thoughts. Where would we be without either of these two great, yet humble men of G-d, who after hearing the call of G-d, basically left it all and followed His Call? And this same G-d, this Yud Hey Vav Heh, has down thru the ages placed His Call on many hearts, and will continue to do so in these last days.not in such dramatic ways, but nevertheless many have felt the pull of the heartstrings towards the G-d of Israel and His Torah, towards the Ancient Paths. And to think of how we are all somehow connected to this awesome G-d, and that He is our G-d, and that it is thru His blessings and His promises that we are connected to our Father Abraham and to Moses and to the Torah and to those who stood at Sinai...is indeed mind boggling. In another email, I included a quote from a reading in our prayer book that is so appropriate here, for it speaks of just this.how each of us who are on this Torah path, have received a "Lech l'cha," of sorts. (See Gen 12:1. "Go for yourself" or "Walk for yourself.") I will copy and paste it below in case some of you missed it the first time.it really hit me! ONCE OR TWICE in a lifetime A man or woman may choose, A radical leaving, having heard Lech l'cha,...Go forth. G-d disturbs us toward our destiny By hard events and by freedom's now urgent voice Which explode and confirm who we are. We don't like leaving, But G-d loves becoming. Shavuah Tov to all! Elisheva/Betty P.S. Any word from Hanoch? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Patricia Robbins Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:39 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Two Encounters that Changed Everything... Beautiful, and most appreciated, James! Thank you so much. And I too am thinking of and praying for Hanoch and wishing him a Shavua Tov. Pat From: James Tabor Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:02 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Two Encounters that Changed Everything... Yesterday on Shabbat Jews and other Torah oriented folk who follow the weekly cycle of Torah readings (Parashot) begin the second scroll of the Torah, namely Exodus or "Shemot" in Hebrew. In Hebrew the books of the Torah take their names from the first key word of the opening line, in this case "These are the names (Heb shemot) of the sons of Israel who came to Egypt with Jacob, each coming with his own household (Exodus 1:1). Likewise, each Torah reading, week by week, takes its name from the first words of the first line of a given section or division, so in this case, the name of the first Torah reading from the book of Exodus is the same as the book itself--Shemot/Names, and runs from Exodus 1:1 through 6:1. It is a rather amazing prelude to the Exodus story, not only providing the account of the birth of Moses, the greatest Prophet of human history (see Deut 34:10), but it quickly covers, in summary fashion, his life up to age 80 when he is tending the flocks of his father-in-law Jethro, in the area of Horeb, which is most likely known today as Paran, in the NE Sinai peninsula. At age 80 one would think, given the history of Moses's flight as a fugitive from Egypt, and his 40 years in the household of Jethro, that his life was basically set with the main events now past. Yet the rest of the Torah recounts the final 40 years of Moses's life, that proved to be more critical than any of his previous 80 years. At the core of his subsequent story, and at the absolute center of his experiences, was his initial encounter with YHVH, whom he encountered as mysterious voice emerging from a flaming bush that was somehow not consumed but kept burning brightly as he got closer. Then he heard, "Moses Moses," and one who identified himself in the first person: "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Moses took off his shoes and hid his face--for the ground itself was holy through this unprecedented manifestation of YHVH. It was this fateful encounter that changed the history of the world. Moses is called in the Torah the "meekest man in all the earth" (Numbers 12:3), and he considers himself wholly inadequate for the awesome task God assigns to him--namely to go to the Pharoah of Egypt and tell him face to face--YHVH, the God of Israel, commands you to Let My People Go." It is difficult to read these words today without putting this familiar story into the category of a "Bible story," far removed from the real world of nations, peoples, and governments such as ours today. Step back and actually try to imagine Moses as a shepherd in the desert, following the extraordinary life experiences of his past, long ago having given up on any significant role to his life beyond his family--and suddenly having this encounter that turned everything around and ended up changing everything--setting the stage for the Mt Sinai encounter and revelation, the greatest even in human history. One has to think back to Abraham, who in Genesis 12, also heard a voice, the manner of which is not reported, but is told to leave his country and kindred to a land that he would be shown--to pull up everything and become the first "Hebrew," or wandering one who had left the civilization beyond the River (Euphrates) following a vision and a voice in his head that promised him a destiny that would change the world. When you think about it, Abraham and Moses, and their two encounters with YHVH, both decisive in their own way, become the foundation of all that subsequently follows... Good week to all, and especially to our dear brother Hanoch, James -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090119/8fb7b4fd/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Mon Jan 19 21:08:36 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:08:36 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: II Kings Chapter 25; Daniel Chapter 1 In-Reply-To: <891721.62864.qm@web82504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <891721.62864.qm@web82504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Helen! I love Azamra too. Rabbi Greenbaum is a terrific teacher! He has live classes on Sunday mornings. Just go to www.azamra.org for information on his classes. They are soooooo worth the time! Pat From: Helen Lusk Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 7:43 PM To: uilist at unitedisrael.org ; dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: II Kings Chapter 25; Daniel Chapter 1 Interesting site I found and thought it might be of interest to some to follow through the book of Daniel. Kind regards, Helen --- On Thu, 1/15/09, AZAMRA Bible wrote: From: AZAMRA Bible Subject: II Kings Chapter 25; Daniel Chapter 1 To: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 6:02 PM BS"D KNOW YOUR BIBLE: II Kings Chapter 25; Daniel Chapter 1 Study Notes by Avraham ben Yaakov II KINGS CHAPTER 25 The grim closing chapter of the Book of Kings laconically records stage by stage the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, the cruel fate of Tzidkiyahu king of Judah and other leading figures of the priesthood and royal court, the exile of most of the remaining population of Judea to Babylon and the final collapse of the last vestiges of Judean independence with the assassination of Gedaliah son of Ahikam. Our present text is supplemented by the parallel account in II Chronicles ch 36 and in particular by the detailed narrative in Jeremiah chs 37-44 & 52, as well as in various passages in Ezekiel, who prophesied in Babylon during the period of the destruction of the First Temple. The full horror of the siege and capture of Jerusalem and the subsequent exile is graphically expressed in Lamentations and its accompanying midrashim as well as in many passages in the KINOS ("mourning dirges") recited on the anniversary of the destruction of the Temple on Tisha Be-Av (9th of the month of Av, July-August). Nebuchadnezzar began his siege of Jerusalem "in the tenth month on the tenth of the month" (v 1). This is commemorated by the Fast of the 10th Teves (December-January), the tenth month counting from Nissan. In verse 4 we learn that the city walls were breached "on the ninth of the month", and in Jeremiah 52:6 we learn that this was in the fourth month (=Tammuz, July). The Jerusalem Talmud (Ta'anis 4) brings an opinion that as a result of the great distress and confusion at that time, the actual date was confused, and that the breach in the city walls in fact took place on 17th Tammuz, the same date as the breach in the walls of Jerusalem by the Romans in the time of the destruction of the Second Temple. These events are thus commemorated in the fast of 17th Tammuz. Rashi on v 4 tells us that King Tzidkiyahu had a secret tunnel that led from his house to the plains of Jericho through which he tried to flee. However the Holy One blessed be He arranged that a deer passed by over the opening of the cave outside the city, and when some Babylonian troops chased after the deer they saw the king and captured him, fulfilling the prophecy of Ezekiel, "And I shall spread My net upon him and he will be caught in My trap" (Ezekiel 12:13). Although we read in the previous chapter that Tzidkiyahu "did evil in the eyes of HaShem" (II Kings 24:19), the rabbis said that in fact Tzidkiyahu was the saving grace of his generation: "The Holy One blessed be He wanted to return the whole world to formlessness and void on account of the generation of Tzidkiyahu, but when he looked at Tzidkiyahu He calmed down. Then why does it say that 'he did evil in God's eyes'? Because he had the power to protest against what the people of his generation were doing but he failed to do so" (Sanhedrin 103a). "And in the fifth month on the seventh of the month? he burned the House of God?" (vv 8-9). The fifth month is Av. The parallel account in Jeremiah (52:12) states that the burning of the Temple took place on the TENTH of the month of Av. The rabbis resolved the discrepancy by explaining that the Babylonians entered the Sanctuary on the 7th Av and then ate, drank and desecrated and damaged the Temple until the late afternoon of the 9th, when they set it on fire, and it kept on burning until it was completely destroyed on the 10th (Taanis 29a). Since the moment when the Temple was actually set on fire was the most serious, the fast commemorating its destruction was fixed on the 9th Av. "And every GREAT house he burned with fire" (v 9): this refers to the study halls and synagogues of Jerusalem, which were destroyed together with everything else (Rashi ad loc.) Many of the Temple treasures had already been looted in earlier raids (II Kings 24:13), including the gold with which Solomon had overlaid the carved wood paneling that covered the Temple walls on the interior. The account of the bronze vessels that were now looted, including Solomon's pool and the massive pillars with their ornate capitals that flanked the entrance to the Sanctuary Vestibule (OOLAM) echoes the account of how these glorious adornments were originally made by Hiram four centuries earlier (I Kings ch 7) in order to enhance our understanding of the magnitude of the disaster that now struck. Unlike the Assyrians, the Babylonians did not go in for population EXCHANGE, but simply exiled most of the Judean population to Babylon without importing other peoples to occupy their former lands. Thus Judea was mostly left barren and empty, except for "the poor of the land" who were left to be "vine-dressers and field-workers" (v 12). According to the rabbis, these "vine-dressers" were in fact left to collect the luxury balsam oil from Eyn Gedi and the surrounding areas, while the "field-workers" continued to harvest the HILAZON snails whose blood was used in the manufacture of TECHEILES blue-dye from the coastal strip from Tyre to Haifa (Shabbos 26a). The Babylonians left Gedaliah son of Ahikam as governor over the remaining Jewish population in Judea. Gedaliah, who was a Tzaddik, followed the policy endorsed by the prophets of accepting the decree of subjugation to Babylon and collaborating with the occupying power. Because of this he was assassinated by those who stubbornly persisted in the belief that they could still fight for Judean independence. His assassination, which is described in greater detail in Jeremiah and which led to the final collapse of the last vestige of Jewish semi-independence in Judea, is commemorated annually by the Fast of Gedaliah on the 3rd of Tishri (the seventh month, September), immediately following the two-day Rosh HaShanah festival. Our present chapter thus enumerates all the events that are commemorated in the four annual fasts relating to the destruction of the Temple: 17 Tammuz, 9 Av, 3 Tishri and 10 Teves. Only in the closing verses of this chapter (vv 27-30) is there any relief from the overall gloom with the account of how immediately after the death of Nebuchadnezzar, his son and successor Eveel Merodokh released Yeho-yachin (who had been exiled and deposed from the throne of Judah in favor of Tzidkiyahu) from prison. The Babylonian king gave Yeho-yachin food from his table. Thus the very curse that King David had put on his commander-in-chief Joab ? that his descendants would be lacking in bread ? was fulfilled on David's own descendant, who depended for bread on the king of Babylon (Sanhedrin 48b). May we speedily see the fulfillment of the prophecy of Zechariah that "the fast of the fourth and the fast of the fifth and the fast of the seventh and the fast of the tenth (months) will be for rejoicing and happiness for the House of Judah" (Zechariah 8:19). DANIEL CHAPTER 1 There could be few better introductions to the book of Daniel than the opening words of R. Avraham Ibn Ezra's commentary thereon: "This is the book of the man greatly beloved, in which the most glorious of things are spoken, with prophecies some of which have already come about and others that are still destined to come about. Each thing is expressed with brevity in mysteries and riddles, while its secrets reside with the angels above ? secrets that stand upon all the foundational elements ? and its commentators have not succeeded in penetrating its secret. Each one explains as far as his hand reaches, but the feet of all of them are unsteady when it comes to the time of the destined end?" The rabbis said: "If all the wise men of the nations of the world were on one side of the scale and Daniel on the other, he would outweigh them all" (Yoma 77a). Daniel himself was considered not a PROPHET (NAVEE) but a wise and saintly SAGE (HACHAM), yet he saw what even the prophets did not see" (Sanhedrin 93b; see Daniel 10:7). >From the point of view of historical narrative, the book of Daniel takes up the story of the exile of Judah in Babylon from time of the first phase of the exile, which took place under King Yeho-yakim, as told in II Kings ch 24. This was eighteen years before the destruction of the Temple and, together with the exile of Yeho-yakim's son Yeho-yachin a year later, brought to Babylon the very flower of the Judean population, including all those righteous Judeans who heeded the message of the prophets of the time and accepted the decree of exile with resignation instead of trying to fight it. Nebuchadnezzar was a ruthless but highly complex and very deep world ruler who was determined to use the minds and intellects of the very cream of the captive Judeans to serve his needs in governing and expanding his empire. "Because you did not serve HaShem your God? you shall serve your enemies" (Deut. 28:47). "If you had been worthy, you would have been called My servants, but now that you have not been worthy, you are servants of Nebuchadnezzar and his companions" (Yalkut Shimoni). Nebuchadnezzar ordered his chief minister to choose an elite of good-looking, super-intelligent and wise Judean children who would be well fed and specially educated for service in his court. One of the requirements was that "they must have the ability to stand in the palace of the king" (v 4). The Talmud picturesquely explains this to mean that they would have to be able to control themselves so as not to laugh, chat or fall asleep during lengthy court sessions as well as holding themselves in if they felt the need to relieve themselves (Rashi ad loc., Sanhedrin 93b). Daniel was determined not to defile and sully himself with the royal food that was provided for these privileged Judean captive children, exemplifying the very first rule of Jewish spiritual survival in exile: METICULOUS OBSERVANCE OF THE LAWS OF KASHRUS (spiritual purity of food). Daniel and his companions understood that the food we ingest nourishes not only our physical bodies but fuels and influences our very minds and souls. They knew that ingesting the royal food, whose ingredients and methods of preparation went contrary to Torah law, would corrupt their subtlest spiritual sensitivities and indeed their entire outlook on everything, destroying their Jewish purity. With a courage comparable to that of Joseph in his years of captivity in Egypt, they secured the agreement of the king's catering officer to test them out on a diet of vegetables and water for ten days in what must have been one of the first macrobiotic experiments in history. They had astounding success, proving healthier than all the other children who did eat the king's food. When Daniel and his companions were finally taken before Nebuchadnezzar, they brought about a great sanctification of the Name of God even in exile, showing that it was precisely the Torah-observant Jewish captives who outweighed all the sages, wizards and diviners of the Babylonian empire. The closing verse of our present chapter (v 21) which tells us that Daniel remained in a position of influence until "the first year of King Koresh (=Cyrus)", is open to a variety of interpretations (see Rashi ad loc.) Some rabbis held that Daniel retained his influence only until the reign of Koresh I, who ruled before Ahashverosh, while others held that he remained until the reign of Koresh II (=Darius II) who ruled after Ahashverosh (Megillah 15a). The chronology of the empires that succeeded that of Babylon will be discussed in later commentaries. ABY To subscribe to the KNOW YOUR BIBLE email list or consult our BIBLE COMMENTARY ARCHIVE, go to http://azamra.org/NaCh.shtml -- AZAMRA INSTITUTE PO Box 50037 Jerusalem 91500 Israel www.azamra.org _____________________________ Change address / Leave mailing list: http://ymlp188.com/u.php?YMLPID=gbmebwgsguhuwgyqw Hosting by YourMailingListProvider -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090119/d9261cd6/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Tue Jan 20 07:10:21 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:10:21 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] B'Ahavah Rabba In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007401c97b00$7463be00$0400a8c0@marvin> Betty, Just a few words that say so much to us who have "heard" a "Lech l'cha" - To go forth. Indeed, "G-d disturbs us toward our destiny, By hard events and by freedom's now urgent voice, Which explode and confirm who we are." As I personally stand and look back 20 years or more, I think God for my call, and I thank God for giving me hears to hear and the depth of soul to follow that "still small voice". As I stand and look forward into time on this historical day here in America, I see less clearly what my future, and our collective future holds. In one sense I see darkness, gross darkness that is slowly rolling in like fog form off the water. But, then as I look deep with in my own heart and spirit I pray with the sense that we are so close to the dawning of the light. It's difficult to explain, but it's almost as if we are in the early hours of the morning just before dawn, the darkest part of the night, and as we wait with anticipation for the first rays of light to come across the horizon... we release our grasp on the darkness that has been such a part of us, darkness we have lived with through the night, darkness that has become part of our being. We yearn for the first rays of light, we pray for daylight, we know it will come! Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that there shall not be light, but heavy clouds and thick; Zec 14:7 And there shall be one day which shall be known as the LORD'S, not day, and not night; but it shall come to pass, that at evening time there shall be light. Shalom, Marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Betty Givin Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 8:20 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] B'Ahavah Rabba As some of you may know, the Ahavah Rabbah, is the lovely traditional prayer that is said immediately before the Shema in the siddur or Jewish Prayer Book. It speaks of the everlasting love of HaShem for us, and asks that He have mercy upon us, that He teach us not only to understand, but to do His Torah, that He enlighten our eyes in His Torah and attach our hearts to His commandments; and then, in compassion, that he break the yoke of the nations from our necks and bring us back to from the four corners of the earth. It ends with the blessing, "Baruch ata Adonai, habocheir b'amo Yisrael b'ahavah. Or "Blessed are You, HaShem, who chooses His people Israel with love. "It is a most beautiful prayer filled with so much meaning. I have always preferred a more traditional siddur, such as the Artscroll (Sephardic version), as this is the one that I have used for many years and will continue to use for my personal prayers. However, at my synagogue we have another siddur, which lends itself more to the Conservative or Reform movement. There are many similarities, but there are some differences. Sometimes they will have the original prayer in the Hebrew on one side of the page and then on the other, will give several additional readings that might focus on one or two thoughts contained in the prayer. One such example is the additional reading given for the beautiful Ahavah Rabbah prayer. As I read it, I was so struck by its message and how pertinent it was to me and I believe to many of us who have literally "left" our past faith and its trappings behind in search of the Ancient Path simply because we felt an undeniable urging and quickening of the heart.a tug of the heartstrings, if you will, by Adonai Eloheynu, HaShem our G-d! I thought especially of you, Helen, and the moving account of your granddaughter's bat mitzvah, and all that you and Jim and your family went thru to be enabled to come to this present time. Was the "leaving" hard? Yes. Would you, would we, do it all again? Yes, without a doubt, for it is so very much worth it all. I would like to share this short reading with you all and hope that it means as much to you as it did to me. ONCE OR TWICE in a lifetime A man or woman may choose, A radical leaving, having heard Lech l'cha,...Go forth. G-d disturbs us toward our destiny By hard events and by freedom's now urgent voice Which explode and confirm who we are. We don't like leaving, But G-d loves becoming. Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/0d8d86b5/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jan 20 07:56:50 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:56:50 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] MIRACLES IN ISRAEL!!!! Message-ID: THE STORIES BELOW ARE WHY WE NEED ISRAEL WORLD TV TO GET UP AND RUNNING. OUR GOD REIGNS, AND HE IS SHOWERING HIS PEOPLE, ISRAEL, WITH MIRACLES!!!!!!!! ? The good intentions of the West will not pacify Gaza.........Front Page.........Spare the Pieties on Gaza ? January 19, 2009 MIRACLES ARE HAPPENING IN ISRAEL! Dena Gewanter, M.D., Israel While the media in the West are lambasting Israel for killing women and children, and are saturating their viewers with horrific photos of bloodied corpses, Israel as a nation is undergoing an astonishing spiritual awakening as a result of this conflict. It is a pity that the world is unable to be witness to the miracles that are occurring here daily. Even the most jaded person would be amazed at the transformation of the people in this country. After many years of feeling the underdog and fearful of the approbation of the outside world, Israel is undergoing an absolute renaissance on a personal and national level. First and foremost, Israel as a nation has finally decided to throw aside the fear of being rejected by the nations and embrace its sovereign right to defend it's citizens from terrorist attacks. What is so astonishing, for those who know Jews and particularly Israelis, is that a whopping 92% of Jewish Israelis actually AGREE that the war is necessary and just. The adage of 2 Jews, 3 opinions and 4 political parties has vaporized in the face of the national crisis we are in. Not only is there agreement among the populace, but also the left wing and the right wing of the political spheres agree. Even more amazing is the concordance among the various religious factions: Ashkenazi, Sephardic, reform and conservative, Zionists -are all joining together in prayer and supplication to the Almighty for salvation, protection and victory over our enemies. There are calls to prayer everywhere, regardless of denomination or ethnic background, everyone is united in looking towards the God of Israel to keep our soldiers safe and help us win against an evil enemy who has sworn never to stop until Israel as a nation is destroyed. The soldiers themselves seem to have a huge spiritual hunger, and are united in not only asking for prayer but also praying themselves, wearing tzitzit (prayer tassles) into battle and carrying the book of Psalms with them. The Rabbis are calling the tzitzit "heavenly flak jackets!" Tent synagogues on the battlefield have no less than 10 sessions every morning, and it is reported that soldiers who never attended synagogue are now praying with tefillim. They have reason to cry out to God, since everyone is aware of the years of preparation of the bloodthirsty Hamas militants, their desire to kill, maim or kidnap Israeli soldiers is greater than their desire to live; they have been financed by Iran and supported by Syria and Hezbollah. Yet, we are defeating them, and there are reports daily of amazing miracles of protection and Divine direction during the battle. The following are just a few examples: A Hamas map was found, with booby-traps, landmines and sniper positions clearly spelled out. The IDF was able to counter each installation due to the information given. A large platoon of soldiers not realizing they were resting in a school that was booby-trapped, (discovered by a soldier relieving himself in the night), disarmed the bombs with no one hurt. A single soldier successfully fought off several Hamas terrorists trying to drag him into a tunnel, and all were captured. Hundreds of tunnels, hidden in homes under beds and kitchen cabinets, all full of live explosives and ammunition, yet none have exploded with IDF soldiers inside. While there have been soldiers wounded, there are miracles there as well. A young man who moved here alone from England less than 2 years ago to serve in the army was in an explosion, and thrown into the air. After being carried off the field by other soldiers and transported on a tractor to helicopter and then to hospital, the doctors were utterly stunned when they saw that a piece of shrapnel that went completely through his neck, missed the carotid artery, the jugular vein and the spinal cord by millimeters. After they removed it, he needed only stitches. Another soldier was shot through the back but the bullet missed his spinal cord and exited from the front. A young newlywed, in grave condition, inexplicably turned for the better and will recover to go home to his wife. On the ground level, bombs continue to fall, but here again, miracle after miracle is reported even on the local news. One hears the word "nes" (miracle) over and over by the reporters and the bystanders. A bomb heading toward 4 apartment buildings goes into a sewer pipe and explodes underground, damaging nothing above ground. An elderly woman caught in an apartment completely demolished by a bomb, walks out with scratches on her ankle. The mayor of Beersheva felt he should cancel school one day, and a rocket completely destroys an empty kindergarten. The elder housing complex that was hit in Nahariya had the sleeping quarters destroyed, but everyone had just gone to breakfast, so no one injured. A man leaves his car with his young daughter, and the car is blown up moments later after they entered a bomb shelter. If they had taken a few more seconds, he and his daughter would have been burned to a crisp. He was televised saying again and again it was a miracle. Similar stories like these were heard during the second Lebanon war, reported on Israeli radio and television, but no one in the west ever heard; only negative propaganda from the terrorists was reported, whose aim was to malign Israel and make us look like a nation of bloodthirsty killers. One has to grieve over the terrible destruction of the cities in Gaza and the horrific human tragedy going on there, but the responsibility for the suffering and death is directly on the doorstep of the Hamas leadership. These deluded people think that their god, Allah, will give them victory, and have entered into a battle with the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We are literally living in times like those of the Scriptures, when the Lord told Elisha all the plans of the enemy, until the enemy began to wonder if there was a spy in their ranks. There is hope here and unity of resolve, not despair. Even the parents of Yoni Natanel, killed by friendly fire, were quoted as saying that their son died "for the sanctification of God's name," and forgave and blessed those who accidently fired at his unit. There is such heroism and courage here, one wishes that the world could see it, but as one of our journalists said, the media have left their brains at the door of Ben Gurion Airport. They are many miles away from the actual battle, wear flak jackets and helmets for the cameras, and then take them off to have cappuccino at the local restaurant! Fortunately, Israelis are accustomed to being misunderstood and maligned by the outside world. At this point, everyone knows we have a job to do, and we are becoming more and more aware that there is a greater Power than us is on our side. If My people, who are called by My Name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My Face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land (2 Chron 7:14). Dena Gewanter, M.D. Kiriat Yam, Israel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/96ec5940/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jan 20 08:05:06 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:05:06 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] B'Ahavah Rabba In-Reply-To: <007401c97b00$7463be00$0400a8c0@marvin> References: <007401c97b00$7463be00$0400a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: So very powerful, Marv and Betty..............thank you both so much! Shalom, Pat From: mhyde Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:10 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] B'Ahavah Rabba Betty, Just a few words that say so much to us who have "heard" a "Lech l'cha" - To go forth. Indeed, "G-d disturbs us toward our destiny, By hard events and by freedom's now urgent voice, Which explode and confirm who we are." As I personally stand and look back 20 years or more, I think God for my call, and I thank God for giving me hears to hear and the depth of soul to follow that "still small voice". As I stand and look forward into time on this historical day here in America, I see less clearly what my future, and our collective future holds. In one sense I see darkness, gross darkness that is slowly rolling in like fog form off the water. But, then as I look deep with in my own heart and spirit I pray with the sense that we are so close to the dawning of the light. It's difficult to explain, but it's almost as if we are in the early hours of the morning just before dawn, the darkest part of the night, and as we wait with anticipation for the first rays of light to come across the horizon... we release our grasp on the darkness that has been such a part of us, darkness we have lived with through the night, darkness that has become part of our being. We yearn for the first rays of light, we pray for daylight, we know it will come! Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that there shall not be light, but heavy clouds and thick; Zec 14:7 And there shall be one day which shall be known as the LORD'S, not day, and not night; but it shall come to pass, that at evening time there shall be light. Shalom, Marvin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Betty Givin Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 8:20 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] B'Ahavah Rabba As some of you may know, the Ahavah Rabbah, is the lovely traditional prayer that is said immediately before the Shema in the siddur or Jewish Prayer Book. It speaks of the everlasting love of HaShem for us, and asks that He have mercy upon us, that He teach us not only to understand, but to do His Torah, that He enlighten our eyes in His Torah and attach our hearts to His commandments; and then, in compassion, that he break the yoke of the nations from our necks and bring us back to from the four corners of the earth. It ends with the blessing, "Baruch ata Adonai, habocheir b'amo Yisrael b'ahavah. Or "Blessed are You, HaShem, who chooses His people Israel with love. "It is a most beautiful prayer filled with so much meaning. I have always preferred a more traditional siddur, such as the Artscroll (Sephardic version), as this is the one that I have used for many years and will continue to use for my personal prayers. However, at my synagogue we have another siddur, which lends itself more to the Conservative or Reform movement. There are many similarities, but there are some differences. Sometimes they will have the original prayer in the Hebrew on one side of the page and then on the other, will give several additional readings that might focus on one or two thoughts contained in the prayer. One such example is the additional reading given for the beautiful Ahavah Rabbah prayer. As I read it, I was so struck by its message and how pertinent it was to me and I believe to many of us who have literally "left" our past faith and its trappings behind in search of the Ancient Path simply because we felt an undeniable urging and quickening of the heart.a tug of the heartstrings, if you will, by Adonai Eloheynu, HaShem our G-d! I thought especially of you, Helen, and the moving account of your granddaughter's bat mitzvah, and all that you and Jim and your family went thru to be enabled to come to this present time. Was the "leaving" hard? Yes. Would you, would we, do it all again? Yes, without a doubt, for it is so very much worth it all. I would like to share this short reading with you all and hope that it means as much to you as it did to me. ONCE OR TWICE in a lifetime A man or woman may choose, A radical leaving, having heard Lech l'cha,...Go forth. G-d disturbs us toward our destiny By hard events and by freedom's now urgent voice Which explode and confirm who we are. We don't like leaving, But G-d loves becoming. Elisheva/Betty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/9d69bfaf/attachment.html From webhulon at msn.com Tue Jan 20 08:43:29 2009 From: webhulon at msn.com (Ronnie Hulon) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:43:29 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager In-Reply-To: References: <855590370812311854k138af4cpb5e670efa9b42f0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Shalom Elisheva, I told Rueven about your tallit and sent your photo to him. He said that he may have one with him. He and Gershon are going to be making a few stops in Texas soon and I thought that you might like to see them. You can contact Rueven at begedivri at hotmail.com. He regularly checks his email and he will let you know which cities they will be in. Blessings, Web _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/b638472f/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 20 09:36:45 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:36:45 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager In-Reply-To: References: <855590370812311854k138af4cpb5e670efa9b42f0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5F2E3552E2884A3EAF057CC11597BEA4@bettylaptop> Shalom Web, Thank you for passing my information on to Reuven. I appreciate it so much. I did in fact just receive an email from him and will definitely contact him. Blessings back to you, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Ronnie Hulon Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:43 AM To: roots of faith Subject: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager Shalom Elisheva, I told Rueven about your tallit and sent your photo to him. He said that he may have one with him. He and Gershon are going to be making a few stops in Texas soon and I thought that you might like to see them. You can contact Rueven at begedivri at hotmail.com. He regularly checks his email and he will let you know which cities they will be in. Blessings, Web _____ _____ Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/195bafb1/attachment.html From long777 at att.net Tue Jan 20 09:42:18 2009 From: long777 at att.net (Jeremy Long) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:42:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager Message-ID: <488678.24887.qm@web180116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Speaking of Rueven Prager. He will be in Houston area for an engagement this coming sunday the 25th if anyone in the area is interested. If anyone wants it I can post the info. Just let me know. Jeremy ________________________________ From: Betty Givin To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:36:45 AM Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager Shalom Web, Thank you for passing my information on to Reuven. I appreciate it so much. I did in fact just receive an email from him and will definitely contact him. Blessings back to you, Elisheva/Betty ________________________________ From:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Ronnie Hulon Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:43 AM To: roots of faith Subject: [Dialogue] Rueven Prager Shalom Elisheva, I told Rueven about your tallit and sent your photo to him. He said that he may have one with him. He and Gershon are going to be making a few stops in Texas soon and I thought that you might like to see them. You can contact Rueven at begedivri at hotmail.com. He regularly checks his email and he will let you know which cities they will be in. Blessings, Web ________________________________ ________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/e089fdec/attachment.html From calbfordham at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 10:57:36 2009 From: calbfordham at gmail.com (calb fordham) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:57:36 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: calb fordham Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:57 AM Subject: Amber's Grandpa. To: Chris and Amber Amber's grandpa is in the hospital in Rock Hill, Piedmont Medical Center. He is 75 and has fallen. His legs will not work right now, so he cannot stand or walk. Please remember him today. Thank you! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/49eb6733/attachment.html From correim at gninc.ca Tue Jan 20 11:30:03 2009 From: correim at gninc.ca (Cornie Reimer) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:30:03 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49760A1B.7040707@gninc.ca> Thank you Chris for this information, I am putting him on my prayer list, please give us his name if you don't mind. Cornie calb fordham wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: *calb fordham* > > Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:57 AM > Subject: Amber's Grandpa. > To: Chris and Amber > > > > Amber's grandpa is in the hospital in Rock Hill, Piedmont Medical > Center. He is 75 and has fallen. His legs will not work right now, > so he cannot stand or walk. Please remember him today. Thank you! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/08646913/attachment.html From calbfordham at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 11:55:35 2009 From: calbfordham at gmail.com (calb fordham) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:55:35 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. In-Reply-To: <49760A1B.7040707@gninc.ca> References: <49760A1B.7040707@gninc.ca> Message-ID: Bill McElveen On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Cornie Reimer wrote: > Thank you Chris for this information, I am putting him on my prayer list, > please give us his name if you don't mind. > > Cornie > > > > calb fordham wrote: > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: calb fordham > Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:57 AM > Subject: Amber's Grandpa. > To: Chris and Amber > > > Amber's grandpa is in the hospital in Rock Hill, Piedmont Medical Center. > He is 75 and has fallen. His legs will not work right now, so he cannot > stand or walk. Please remember him today. Thank you! > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/a44d31e8/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jan 20 16:52:54 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:52:54 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Fw: II Kings Chapter 25; Daniel Chapter 1] Message-ID: <497655C6.4070507@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090121/f0c6d12a/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Helen Lusk Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: II Kings Chapter 25; Daniel Chapter 1 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:43:26 -0800 (PST) Size: 29529 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090121/f0c6d12a/attachment.eml From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jan 20 17:18:26 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:18:26 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. In-Reply-To: References: <49760A1B.7040707@gninc.ca> Message-ID: Have just read your emails, Chris, and am joining Cornie in prayer. May HaShem restore the use of Bill's legs, as well as heal any other ill effects from his fall, and grant him His Shalom-Shalom (peace inside and peace outside). Please keep us posted on his condition. Love, Pat From: calb fordham Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:55 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. Bill McElveen On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Cornie Reimer wrote: Thank you Chris for this information, I am putting him on my prayer list, please give us his name if you don't mind. Cornie calb fordham wrote: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: calb fordham Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:57 AM Subject: Amber's Grandpa. To: Chris and Amber Amber's grandpa is in the hospital in Rock Hill, Piedmont Medical Center. He is 75 and has fallen. His legs will not work right now, so he cannot stand or walk. Please remember him today. Thank you! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/5fe5216f/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jan 20 17:39:37 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:39:37 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa.] Message-ID: <497660B9.30104@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090121/32c3b0c0/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "calb fordham" Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:57:36 -0500 Size: 5873 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090121/32c3b0c0/attachment.eml From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jan 20 19:51:11 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:51:11 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Fw: II Kings Chapter 25; Daniel Chapter 1] In-Reply-To: <497655C6.4070507@westnet.com.au> References: <497655C6.4070507@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: This is terrific, Joe! I think I got more understanding out of Kain and Havel than I ever had before. I put myself in each of their place and thought about the pride I had felt when I grew my own tomatoes. Then I thought of the love I felt when my dog had puppies. It was a miraculous thing to see those babies grow. They were HaShem's in such a special way. Those tomatoes really felt like MINE. What a difference!!!! I never realized this difference until you explained it here. Thank you so much, Avigail From: Joe Indomenico Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:52 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Fw: II Kings Chapter 25; Daniel Chapter 1] Shalom Helen, thank you for this article. I , too am a respecter of Rabbi Greenbaum. Unfortunately I cannot listen live to his broadcasts because of the time difference in Australia. The issue of Daniel and his diet of vegetables and water has often intrigued me. As Rabbi Greenbaum explains the obvious explanation lies in Daniel's adherence to kashrut dietary laws. However ,I have often wondered if there are deeper hidden meanings in this story. As the rabbis explain there are four levels of explanation of every scripture in the Tanach. "PARDES." PARSHAT : Literal obvious meaning. REMEZ : A hint or a cue that triggers another scripture of reference. DRASH : A parable that facilitates the interpretation of a spiritual reality through everyday analogies. SOD : The hidden or deeper meaning. There is one aspect of this story that has been on my heart for years and that I would like to propose to the group for your consideration. In this story you have two alternative eating habits. The first represents "the dainty things" from the table of the King of Babylon. Just picture all the chefs from the realm cooking up a storm to impress the King. Each one conjuring up delicacies to capture the gastronomic imagination. So you have much human input or "work of the hands". Reliance on self to impress the King. The diet of Daniel represented by the vegetables and water is in a totally different realm. Raw vegetables and water are pristine and require no human involvement . They are totally dependent on Heaven, the realm of HaShem. This indicates a total trust on HaShem. Daniel, being a Jew, would have blessed HaShem for His benevolent gift. There is no self centred ego to impress the King of the Universe rather a humble thanksgiving spirit. There are many precedences in the Tanach for these two different and opposing attitudes that separate the sons of HaShem from the sons of the world. The first recorded episode in the Torah occurs between Kain and Havel. Havel ,a shepherd, when it comes to render thanksgivings to HaShem offers the first born of his flock. HaShem created all things including sheep. Therefore , Havel was offering back to HaShem the best of that which HaShem had given to him in the first place. This is a humble thanksgiving offering. Havel prophetically knew what HaShem's will was for humanity. He becomes the one who upon achieving revelation acts upon it. Kain, on the other hand , was a tiller of the ground. In order for him to bring his offering to HaShem , he has to plant the produce, cultivate the produce and harvest the produce. There is much human effort or work of the hands. His ultimate aim through his efforts was to impress the Creator. Hence HaShem did not favour his offering. Sin crouched at the door and his ego led to fratricide. What makes this whole episode intriguing is that further along in time when the Torah was given to Moshe, there appeared a prohibition called "Shatnez" which required the children of Yisrael not to mix linen with wool. Linen is from the flax plant (Kain) and wool is from sheep (Havel). However the Kohen ha Gadol ( High Priest) in his vestments was allowed this mixture. Many have found this perplexing. The vestment coat is called "Kutonet". The mystics allude that the role of the High Priest was to atone for the sin of fratricide . The coat of many colours that Yosef wore was also called "Kutonet ha Pasim" The only other mention of Kutonet in the Torah is in Genesis and relates to the clothing that HaShem covered Adam and Chava's sin with. The sages explain that the story of Yosef is mystically intertwined with the unification of the sons of Yacov. This is the mission of Mashiach ben Yosef as stated in Zechariah 13 when this is finally fulfilled. ? ???????, ??? ?????? ???????: ?????-????? ??????? ???????, ???? ????? ????????? ???????????. 5 but he shall say: 'I am no prophet, I am a tiller of the ground; for I have been made a bondman from my youth.'(Yosef) ? ??????? ??????, ??? ?????????? ???????? ????? ???????; ???????, ?????? ????????? ????? ?????????. {?} 6 And one shall say unto him: 'What are these wounds between thy hands?' Then he shall answer: 'Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.' {P} ? ?????, ?????? ???-????? ?????-?????? ????????--?????, ?????? ????????; ???? ???-??????? ???????????? ???????, ???????????? ????? ???-???????????. 7 Awake, O sword, against My shepherd, and against the man that is near unto Me, saith the LORD of hosts; smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered; and I will turn My hand upon the little ones. ? ??????? ?????-???????, ?????-??????, ????-???????? ?????, ?????????? ?????????; ???????????????, ???????? ?????. 8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. ? ?????????? ???-?????????????, ???????, ????????????? ???????? ???-????????, ????????????? ???????? ???-????????; ???? ??????? ????????, ??????? ??????? ?????--?????????? ?????? ????, ?????? ?????? ?????? ???????. {?} 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried; they shall call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say: 'It is My people', and they shall say: 'The LORD is my God.' There are more instances of these two different attitudes which are too numerous to expand upon in this post. However I will give a few brief outlines : Havel and Kain. Daniel and Nevuchadnezzer. David and Shaul. Eliyahu and the prophets of baal. Yacov and Esav. This is just to name a few. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/2dcb80a7/attachment.html From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com Tue Jan 20 20:10:25 2009 From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:10:25 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch, awaits doctor's say-so Message-ID: <200901210210.n0L2AMtP010364@mail384c25.carrierzone.com> Dear Friends, Hanoch informs me that the infection seems to be not going away, and he may have to be hospitalized, perhaps soon. Your prayers are appreciated. I will let you know if conditions change. Thank you for all your prayers, Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/fd4cf9f6/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jan 20 20:13:52 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:13:52 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch, awaits doctor's say-so In-Reply-To: <200901210210.n0L2AMtP010364@mail384c25.carrierzone.com> References: <200901210210.n0L2AMtP010364@mail384c25.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: Was slacking off some. Thank you so much, Steve, for letting us know! Will pray fervently. Pat From: Steve Mathe Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:10 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch, awaits doctor's say-so Dear Friends, Hanoch informs me that the infection seems to be not going away, and he may have to be hospitalized, perhaps soon. Your prayers are appreciated. I will let you know if conditions change. Thank you for all your prayers, Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/94d79df6/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 20 20:29:59 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:29:59 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch, awaits doctor's say-so In-Reply-To: References: <200901210210.n0L2AMtP010364@mail384c25.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: <3744F240EAEA47EC92A026D041E211DA@bettylaptop> Thank you, Steve. I too was slacking off some today as I thought that we would be getting a good report since the last update stated that his headaches were easing up some. Do you know how he is feeling? And how is his spirit? Yes, we must continue our prayers for our dear brother whom we all love and appreciate so much! May HaShem bless him with a Refuah Shlema (a complete healing), a prayer that he has prayed for so many of us...and may he be enabled to get well at home rather than have to enter the hospital. Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Patricia Robbins Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:14 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Hanoch, awaits doctor's say-so Was slacking off some. Thank you so much, Steve, for letting us know! Will pray fervently. Pat From: Steve Mathe Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:10 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch, awaits doctor's say-so Dear Friends, Hanoch informs me that the infection seems to be not going away, and he may have to be hospitalized, perhaps soon. Your prayers are appreciated. I will let you know if conditions change. Thank you for all your prayers, Steve _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/62265bae/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jan 20 22:05:33 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:05:33 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Hanoch, awaits doctor's say-so] Message-ID: <49769F0D.9070005@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090121/f8626dbf/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jan 20 22:08:48 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:08:48 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Hanoch, awaits doctor's say-so] In-Reply-To: <49769F0D.9070005@westnet.com.au> References: <49769F0D.9070005@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Thank you, Joe. I so hope someone is there to take care of him so he will rest. Will keep praying. From: Joe Indomenico Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:05 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Hanoch, awaits doctor's say-so] Shalom Chaverim, I had the opportunity to have a chat with Hanoch. The infection is not going away. However the headaches and high fever have dissipated to some degree. Hanoch is in very good spirits and doing all he can to stay away from the hospital. As you all may well know hospitals are notorious breeding grounds for infectious bacteria. Hence his stoic battle to stay at home. Total rest is required and hopefully he will improve as time goes on. If in the end he is forced under medical authority to be hospitalized then so be it. His regime of antibiotics under medical supervision will continue as long as required. Hanoch is touched by all your concerns and greatly appreciates all your prayers. B'Ezrat HaShem he will back on the mend towards a full and speedy recovery. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/51a54745/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 20 22:37:10 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:37:10 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] A PR for Hanoch Message-ID: <8F9CF6030D9846FDBC69D13467512EDB@bettylaptop> Friends, I just wanted to share a PR that I received for Hanoch a few minutes ago. After receiving the news from Steve that Hanoch's infection was not going away and that he might have to be hospitalized, I quickly began to pray as wrote an email in response. Then I turned and got out my Tanakh, feeling a bit frazzled, I said out loud, "I need a PR.where do I need to go?" Instantly Psalm 18:27 popped into my head. I turned to the reference and began to read. "with the pure Thou wilt show Thyself pure." and the verse immediately preceding. "with the upright man Thou wilt show Thyself upright." I continued to read the verses below."For thou wilt light my candle: HaShem my G-d will enlighten my darkness." "for by Thee I run through a troop; and by my G-d I leap over a wall." and further down. "He girds me with strength, and makes my way perfect. He makes my feet like hinds' feet, and sets me upon my heights." I skipped to the beginning of the psalm to get the context and saw that this psalm was written by King David and was a song of praise to HaShem, His Deliverer, and His Rock, who heard his cry in his distress, and recompensed him according to his (David's) righteousness. Even though the context is in a time of war, I still think it fits for Hanoch as he is such a champion and a warrior of his people, and would be there in Israel, fighting physically with the IDF with all his might were he able. But since he cannot do that, he has been fighting the war with words to encourage and spear all of us into action.and I know that Hanoch is upright, pure and righteous and that HaShem is His Deliverer and His Rock and His shield! May he be renewed with strength so that he will indeed be able to "leap over a wall," and be set upon the heights! Hanoch, if you are reading this, please rest assured that our love and our prayers are with you. May you feel our love and the love of our G-d, your G-d, to whom you pray daily, and may you be aware of His Presence there with you as you rest.and dear brother, as you have so often prayed for so many of us, May Hashem in His mercy bless you with a "Refuah Shlema!" Joe, your message just came in. I am so happy that you were able to talk with Hanoch and report to us that his spirits are up. Baruch HaShem! It appears that HaShem in his great mercy is already answering and affirming this PR and many of our prayers for our dear brother. Y'he raitzon, May it be your Will, HaShem, that Hanoch be able to be restored to health at home and not have to go to the hospital. B'Ahava Rabba, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/232d1f5c/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 20 23:09:23 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:09:23 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. In-Reply-To: References: <49760A1B.7040707@gninc.ca> Message-ID: Yes, Amber, am praying also for your dear Grandpa and say amen to Pat's prayer. Our parents and our grandparents become more and more special to us as time goes on.for as they age, they become more fragile.and we often experience an even greater surge of love for them at times when they are ill or injured. I am with you, and I love you dear girl. Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Patricia Robbins Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:18 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. Have just read your emails, Chris, and am joining Cornie in prayer. May HaShem restore the use of Bill's legs, as well as heal any other ill effects from his fall, and grant him His Shalom-Shalom (peace inside and peace outside). Please keep us posted on his condition. Love, Pat From: calb fordham Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:55 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. Bill McElveen On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Cornie Reimer wrote: Thank you Chris for this information, I am putting him on my prayer list, please give us his name if you don't mind. Cornie calb fordham wrote: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: calb fordham Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:57 AM Subject: Amber's Grandpa. To: Chris and Amber Amber's grandpa is in the hospital in Rock Hill, Piedmont Medical Center. He is 75 and has fallen. His legs will not work right now, so he cannot stand or walk. Please remember him today. Thank you! _____ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/83cf8e06/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Tue Jan 20 23:16:04 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:16:04 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] B'Ahavah Rabba In-Reply-To: <007401c97b00$7463be00$0400a8c0@marvin> References: <007401c97b00$7463be00$0400a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <4A72425D252B4FDBBCD616B8BB5E57E3@bettylaptop> Beautifully stated, Marvin.spoken from the heart of one who understands and has obeyed a Lech l'cha" - To go forth. Yes, the darkness often surrounds us, but the hope is always there.like at Hanukkah, we light a candle in the darkness. I found a lovely verse this evening as I was searching for words to pray for Hanoch . Ps 18:29 "For Thou wilt light my candle; HaShem my G-d will enlighten my darkness." Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of mhyde Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 7:10 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] B'Ahavah Rabba Betty, Just a few words that say so much to us who have "heard" a "Lech l'cha" - To go forth. Indeed, "G-d disturbs us toward our destiny, By hard events and by freedom's now urgent voice, Which explode and confirm who we are." As I personally stand and look back 20 years or more, I think God for my call, and I thank God for giving me hears to hear and the depth of soul to follow that "still small voice". As I stand and look forward into time on this historical day here in America, I see less clearly what my future, and our collective future holds. In one sense I see darkness, gross darkness that is slowly rolling in like fog form off the water. But, then as I look deep with in my own heart and spirit I pray with the sense that we are so close to the dawning of the light. It's difficult to explain, but it's almost as if we are in the early hours of the morning just before dawn, the darkest part of the night, and as we wait with anticipation for the first rays of light to come across the horizon... we release our grasp on the darkness that has been such a part of us, darkness we have lived with through the night, darkness that has become part of our being. We yearn for the first rays of light, we pray for daylight, we know it will come! Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that there shall not be light, but heavy clouds and thick; Zec 14:7 And there shall be one day which shall be known as the LORD'S, not day, and not night; but it shall come to pass, that at evening time there shall be light. Shalom, Marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Betty Givin Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 8:20 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] B'Ahavah Rabba As some of you may know, the Ahavah Rabbah, is the lovely traditional prayer that is said immediately before the Shema in the siddur or Jewish Prayer Book. It speaks of the everlasting love of HaShem for us, and asks that He have mercy upon us, that He teach us not only to understand, but to do His Torah, that He enlighten our eyes in His Torah and attach our hearts to His commandments; and then, in compassion, that he break the yoke of the nations from our necks and bring us back to from the four corners of the earth. It ends with the blessing, "Baruch ata Adonai, habocheir b'amo Yisrael b'ahavah. Or "Blessed are You, HaShem, who chooses His people Israel with love. "It is a most beautiful prayer filled with so much meaning. I have always preferred a more traditional siddur, such as the Artscroll (Sephardic version), as this is the one that I have used for many years and will continue to use for my personal prayers. However, at my synagogue we have another siddur, which lends itself more to the Conservative or Reform movement. There are many similarities, but there are some differences. Sometimes they will have the original prayer in the Hebrew on one side of the page and then on the other, will give several additional readings that might focus on one or two thoughts contained in the prayer. One such example is the additional reading given for the beautiful Ahavah Rabbah prayer. As I read it, I was so struck by its message and how pertinent it was to me and I believe to many of us who have literally "left" our past faith and its trappings behind in search of the Ancient Path simply because we felt an undeniable urging and quickening of the heart.a tug of the heartstrings, if you will, by Adonai Eloheynu, HaShem our G-d! I thought especially of you, Helen, and the moving account of your granddaughter's bat mitzvah, and all that you and Jim and your family went thru to be enabled to come to this present time. Was the "leaving" hard? Yes. Would you, would we, do it all again? Yes, without a doubt, for it is so very much worth it all. I would like to share this short reading with you all and hope that it means as much to you as it did to me. ONCE OR TWICE in a lifetime A man or woman may choose, A radical leaving, having heard Lech l'cha,...Go forth. G-d disturbs us toward our destiny By hard events and by freedom's now urgent voice Which explode and confirm who we are. We don't like leaving, But G-d loves becoming. Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090120/694a95a4/attachment.html From j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net Wed Jan 21 03:55:09 2009 From: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net (Helen Lusk) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:55:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <817644.88213.qm@web82506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am praying for Amber's grandfather too since I read the e-mail. ? Kind regards, Helen --- On Wed, 1/21/09, Betty Givin wrote: From: Betty Givin Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 12:09 AM Yes, Amber, am praying also for your dear Grandpa and say amen to Pat?s prayer.? Our parents and our grandparents become more and more special to us as time goes on?for as they age, they become more fragile?and we often experience an even greater surge of love for them at times when they are ill or injured.? I am with you, and I love you dear girl. ? Elisheva/Betty ? From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Patricia Robbins Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:18 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. ? Have just read your emails, Chris, and am joining Cornie in prayer.? May HaShem restore the use of Bill's?legs, as well as heal any other ill effects from his fall, and grant him His Shalom-Shalom (peace inside and peace outside).? ? Please keep us posted on his condition. ? Love, ? Pat ? ? ? From: calb fordham Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:55 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. ? Bill McElveen On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Cornie Reimer wrote: Thank you Chris for this information, I am putting him on my prayer list, please give us his name if you don't mind. Cornie calb fordham wrote: ? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: calb fordham Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:57 AM Subject: Amber's Grandpa. To: Chris and Amber Amber's grandpa is in the hospital in Rock Hill , Piedmont Medical Center .? He is 75 and has fallen.? His legs will not work right now, so he cannot stand or walk.? Please remember him today.? Thank you!? ? ? ?_______________________________________________? ? _______________________________________________ ? ______________________________________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090121/86d9c741/attachment.html From calbfordham at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 07:23:46 2009 From: calbfordham at gmail.com (calb fordham) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:23:46 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. In-Reply-To: References: <49760A1B.7040707@gninc.ca> Message-ID: Thank you Pat, Helen, Betty, Joe and all: Amber's grandpa's name is Bill McElveen son of Roland McElveen. On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:09 AM, Betty Givin wrote: > Yes, Amber, am praying also for your dear Grandpa and say amen to Pat's > prayer. Our parents and our grandparents become more and more special to us > as time goes on?for as they age, they become more fragile?and we often > experience an even greater surge of love for them at times when they are ill > or injured. I am with you, and I love you dear girl. > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *Patricia Robbins > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:18 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. > > > > Have just read your emails, Chris, and am joining Cornie in prayer. May > HaShem restore the use of Bill's legs, as well as heal any other ill effects > from his fall, and grant him His Shalom-Shalom (peace inside and peace > outside). > > > > Please keep us posted on his condition. > > > > Love, > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > *From:* calb fordham > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:55 PM > > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > > *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] Fwd: Amber's Grandpa. > > > > Bill McElveen > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Cornie Reimer wrote: > > Thank you Chris for this information, I am putting him on my prayer list, > please give us his name if you don't mind. > > Cornie > > > > calb fordham wrote: > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: *calb fordham* > Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:57 AM > Subject: Amber's Grandpa. > To: Chris and Amber > > > Amber's grandpa is in the hospital in Rock Hill, Piedmont Medical Center. > He is 75 and has fallen. His legs will not work right now, so he cannot > stand or walk. Please remember him today. Thank you! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090121/1d0b7b02/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Wed Jan 21 10:43:40 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:43:40 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] A PR for Hanoch In-Reply-To: <8F9CF6030D9846FDBC69D13467512EDB@bettylaptop> References: <8F9CF6030D9846FDBC69D13467512EDB@bettylaptop> Message-ID: This PR is so wonderful, Betty. Am also praying it for Hanoch. He IS a pure and upright man for whom HaShem will light his candle and enlighten his darkness, and BY HASHEM HANOCH WILL RUN THROUGH A TROOP AND BY HIS G-D LEAP OVER A WALL BECAUSE HASHEM GIRDS HIM WITH STRENGTH AND MAKES HIS WAY PERFECT, MAKING HIS FEET LIKE HIND'S FEET, AND SETS HANOCH UPON HIS HEIGHTS........BARUCH HASHEM!!!! Pat From: Betty Givin Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:37 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] A PR for Hanoch Friends, I just wanted to share a PR that I received for Hanoch a few minutes ago. After receiving the news from Steve that Hanoch's infection was not going away and that he might have to be hospitalized, I quickly began to pray as wrote an email in response. Then I turned and got out my Tanakh, feeling a bit frazzled, I said out loud, "I need a PR.where do I need to go?" Instantly Psalm 18:27 popped into my head. I turned to the reference and began to read. "with the pure Thou wilt show Thyself pure." and the verse immediately preceding. "with the upright man Thou wilt show Thyself upright." I continued to read the verses below."For thou wilt light my candle: HaShem my G-d will enlighten my darkness." "for by Thee I run through a troop; and by my G-d I leap over a wall." and further down. "He girds me with strength, and makes my way perfect. He makes my feet like hinds' feet, and sets me upon my heights." I skipped to the beginning of the psalm to get the context and saw that this psalm was written by King David and was a song of praise to HaShem, His Deliverer, and His Rock, who heard his cry in his distress, and recompensed him according to his (David's) righteousness. Even though the context is in a time of war, I still think it fits for Hanoch as he is such a champion and a warrior of his people, and would be there in Israel, fighting physically with the IDF with all his might were he able. But since he cannot do that, he has been fighting the war with words to encourage and spear all of us into action.and I know that Hanoch is upright, pure and righteous and that HaShem is His Deliverer and His Rock and His shield! May he be renewed with strength so that he will indeed be able to "leap over a wall," and be set upon the heights! Hanoch, if you are reading this, please rest assured that our love and our prayers are with you. May you feel our love and the love of our G-d, your G-d, to whom you pray daily, and may you be aware of His Presence there with you as you rest.and dear brother, as you have so often prayed for so many of us, May Hashem in His mercy bless you with a "Refuah Shlema!" Joe, your message just came in. I am so happy that you were able to talk with Hanoch and report to us that his spirits are up. Baruch HaShem! It appears that HaShem in his great mercy is already answering and affirming this PR and many of our prayers for our dear brother. Y'he raitzon, May it be your Will, HaShem, that Hanoch be able to be restored to health at home and not have to go to the hospital. B'Ahava Rabba, Elisheva/Betty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090121/96fc1352/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Wed Jan 21 11:53:54 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:53:54 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Chief Rabbi Confirms Miracle in Gaza Message-ID: Friends, I ran across this in the news this am and thought it very worth sharing. Rabbi Brody, whom many of us are familiar, is also mentioned in this amazing and encouraging article. , http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129532 Shalom & HaShem's Blessings, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090121/3476d9cd/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Wed Jan 21 14:01:51 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (ptyler at aac-usa.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:01:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Dialogue] More on Miracles in Israel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62581.209.155.184.2.1232568111.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> Israel Reporter?s Notebook: Miracles and Wonders in Israel An apartment complex in Ashkelon remains intact after a Palestinian-fired rocket strikes a fence outside. (Photo: John Daly) By Abe Selig Jan 13, 2009 10:10 AM Walking through the rubble on the floor of Gabi Ben-Hamu?s Be?er Sheva home on Sunday, everyone was talking about miracles. It was hard to imagine joy, or at least awe at a time like this. Ben-Hamu?s recently remodeled ground-floor apartment had absorbed the majority of a Grad rocket strike, which had landed nearby just hours before. The outside wall of the home was pockmarked with holes ? the rocket?s now-infamous calling card ? as the ball bearings and crude pieces of metal inside the explosive had sprayed out at the time of impact, sending hundreds of small projectiles through the air. Inside the home, glass and wood were scattered across the floor. A once comfortable and modern dwelling had been destroyed, and Ben-Hamu sat in the kitchen, welcoming visitors with cups of coffee and a cheerful smile that didn?t seem to go away. ?Thank G-d.? he said. ?We were really lucky.? ?But Gabi, what about the windows?? someone asked. ?I can fix the windows,? Ben-Hamu replied. ?But my family, that?s a whole different story.? Ben-Hamu recalled the moments just after hearing the siren, when he and his wife had rushed their three small daughters into the apartment?s safe room, and within seconds, heard an earth-shattering boom. ?The glass had been blown out of all the windows, shrapnel had flown through the house, basically everything went flying,? Ben-Hamu said. But by getting into the safe room and closing the door, he said nothing short of a disaster had been prevented. ?It came down to a matter of seconds,? he said. ?Miracles and wonders are happening here.? Nearby, a Chabad-Lubavitch elementary school had been peppered with shrapnel from the same attack. ?Miracles and wonders,? said a woman in the school?s office. ?The rocket landed in the exact spot the buses unload the students for school. If there had been class today, the rocket would have hit at the same time the buses would have been there. It would have been a disaster.? But it?s not just in Be?er Sheva, nor was it only on Sunday. Since the beginning of Operation Cast Lead and amid the hundreds of rockets that have rained down on the country?s southern cities and towns, the acknowledgment of miracles and wonders has been uttered countless times. A rocket hits a home dead-on, and no one is wounded. A rockets slams into a school, after classes had been cancelled the night before. Even on Monday, as rockets continued to pound the South, the worst wounds reported were shock. Two rockets hit Be?er Sheva again on Monday morning, landing in open areas within the city limits. ?Sure, great stories are traded freely these days,? Shaiel Yitzhak, a population behavior officer with the Home Front Command, told The Jerusalem Post. ?Some say it?s good luck, others say it?s a ?miracle,? but everyone agrees that it?s something beyond nature. But on the other hand, we?re not out of the storm yet, the night is still young. I can?t stress enough the importance of our instructions, and how important it is that people follow them. Miracles and wonders are fine and nice, but safe rooms and shelters are the safest places to be when you hear a siren, and people need to be [strong] in their reactions ? go to the shelter, go to your safe room. ?If there is no safe room or shelter in or near to your home, you must go into the inner-most room of your home, with the fewest windows and fewest ceramic tiles. Stay as far away as possible from the top floor of your home or apartment building. And if you are outside, lie down on the ground, I don?t care if you tear your jeans or get your sweater dirty. By lying down on the ground, you make yourself the smallest possible target for shrapnel. Miracles are good, but I don?t want anyone relying on them. Citizens must remain vigilant in following the instructions that the Home Front Command has worked so hard to disseminate.? Nonetheless, the residents of the South have proved themselves brave under fire thus far, without signs of letting up. As the construction crew worked at Ben-Hamu?s apartment to repair and clear away damage from Sunday?s attack, neighbors were outside, laughing and passing each other cold drinks. ?We?ll stay out here and wait for the next siren,? a middle-aged woman said, as her kids played next to her. ?The shelter is right here, we can run there if we have to. But thank G-d, we?ve been lucky so far. Two or three rockets have hit Be?er Sheva every day since the fighting started, and I don?t know anyone who?s said, ?That?s it, I?ve had enough.? ? This story originally appeared in the Jan. 13, 2009 edition of The Jerusalem Post. From bkgivin at charter.net Wed Jan 21 19:19:46 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:19:46 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Please pray for Jeremy Message-ID: Shalom Chaverim! I wanted to use Hanoch's customary greeting to all of you because I like many of you, miss his heartfelt posts, and pray that he will surprise us any day now with news that he has received his "refuah shlema," and we can all say Baruch HaShem! Maybe you are all not aware of Jeremy Gimpel and what a wonderful patriot for Eretz Yisrael he is, but he is one of the hosts of the Tuesday Night Live in Jerusalem TV program, which is a fantastic program that can be seen on line. I think John and Carin have met him, not sure who else. Anyway, this article should be of interest to you. He has been called into the IDF from reserve duty, and is asking for prayer for himself and for his family. He has some interesting things to report as well regarding Hamas that will not surprise you because most of you are more informed than the average person. The link to Jeremy's article is below. If you are interested, check it out. http://www.thelandofisrael.com/drafted-for-emergency-service-in-gaza/ Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090121/ad437621/attachment.html From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com Wed Jan 21 22:00:44 2009 From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:00:44 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch update: hanging in there, doc tomorrow Message-ID: <200901220400.n0M40cLd018920@mail385c25.carrierzone.com> Hi All, Hanoch is hanging in there, his "feeling" is up, and then down, feels better, than regresses. Is to see doctor tomorrow. Hang in there everyone for him. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090121/d3ed4aa8/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Wed Jan 21 22:21:17 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:21:17 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch update: hanging in there, doc tomorrow In-Reply-To: <200901220400.n0M40cLd018920@mail385c25.carrierzone.com> References: <200901220400.n0M40cLd018920@mail385c25.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: Absolutely will continue to pray for our dear brother. Pat From: Steve Mathe Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:00 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Hanoch update: hanging in there, doc tomorrow Hi All, Hanoch is hanging in there, his "feeling" is up, and then down, feels better, than regresses. Is to see doctor tomorrow. Hang in there everyone for him. Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090121/bf4dfd2a/attachment.html From oneillcody at yahoo.com Thu Jan 22 07:58:00 2009 From: oneillcody at yahoo.com (cody oneill) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:58:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Dialogue] Ukrain Supports Israel Message-ID: <390213.47656.qm@web37303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Posted on Atlas Shrugs ? Reader wizard sent me this magnificent showing. Wizard writes, "A rally 12,000 strong in the center of Kiev in support of the war against terror. They were waving Israeli and Ukrainian flags and their banners said "to Israel - YES!" and "to terrorism - NO!"" ? "To be courageous requires no exceptional qualifications, no magic formula, no special combination of time, place, and circumstance. It is an opportunity that sooner or later is presented to us all." --JFK-- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090122/aabe6b58/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Thu Jan 22 08:31:07 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:31:07 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Ukrain Supports Israel In-Reply-To: <390213.47656.qm@web37303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <390213.47656.qm@web37303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: THIS IS SO AWESOME!!!! BARUCH HASHEM!!!!! Thank you, Cody! Pat From: cody oneill Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:58 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Ukrain Supports Israel Posted on Atlas Shrugs Reader wizard sent me this magnificent showing. Wizard writes, "A rally 12,000 strong in the center of Kiev in support of the war against terror. They were waving Israeli and Ukrainian flags and their banners said "to Israel - YES!" and "to terrorism - NO!"" "To be courageous requires no exceptional qualifications, no magic formula, no special combination of time, place, and circumstance. It is an opportunity that sooner or later is presented to us all." --JFK-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090122/deba72c6/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Thu Jan 22 09:32:56 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:32:56 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] More encouraging words from Israel. --GushEtzion Message-ID: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: "Gush Etzion" gushezif at inter.net.il Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:00:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Our boys return home Our boys return home I received this moving letter from my friend describing her sons return home. We ask you to continue to pray for the wounded. My son came home from Gaza just a few minutes ago. He came home as we had sent him off, only more tired, worn and dirty. Thank you Hashem for bringing him home. To his wife, his brothers and sisters and his loving brood of nieces and nephews. All of us have been waiting patiently these past three weeks to hold him in our arms. Barely able to wait to embrace him, I ran across the highway where his ride had dropped him off. I grabbed him in the middle of the road and cars driving into my yishuv had to veer around this sight of me standing on tiptoes reaching for my tall, handsome son's face. The drivers waved at us. A few rolled down heir windows to say "todah -- thank you" to my son. I whispered Todah again to Hashem. I helped him toss his heavy bags into the trunk of the car. The heaviest among them being the one weighted down with foodstuffs that Israel's citizens sent to our soldiers. Tens of thousands of kilograms of food poured into the bases in the south. Cartons upon cartons of instant soups, nuts, pretzels, cookies and nosh of every kind. All sent by individuals, families, schools and businesses from throughout the country. We could barely lift his 'booty' and we both shared a laugh as we flung it onto the back seat. The words that had been in my heart for so long melted on my tongue. My eyes drank him in, tall, bearded now and his face and soul, a bit darker than before he left us that Sunday morning. He reached his hand to his head and apologized for the fact that he was bareheaded. In the midst of everything his kippa had fallen off. "No matter -- easy enough to replace," I said as his hand slipped into mine. I reached up to grab his neck and felt his lips touch my cheek, and I knew that his presence, like this, was all that I had prayed for each day since he packed his bags and left before the sun even rose that cold morning. I pulled in front of his apartment, a few kilometers from my home, and as we descended the steps I heard him speak gently and lovingly with his wife at work, telling her how anxious he was to see her. He turned on the boiler and laughingly told me "I'm not getting out of this shower for the next hour." The bags fell to the floor and he leaned against the kitchen counter to untie his boots swiftly flinging them aside and letting his bare feet rest on the tile floor. He was exhausted and I hesitated to start with the barrage of questions that had been streaming through my head every day, every hour for these past few weeks. He smiled as he opened the bag of goodies and told me about the elementary school children from Mevasseret Zion who had attached notes with their gifts. He spoke with three of them to thank them personally. One child wrote a three page letter and the soldiers in my son's unit were grateful to learn more of this 8-year old's daily life, his favorite subjects and his fondness for playstation. When they called to speak with him, he was overwhelmed and kept calling them "gibborim" heroes. "Ima" he said, "I'm tired now, but I have to tell you how extraordinary this nation is. The children who wrote to us, the people who sent their good wishes with their packages of food, the businesses that sent truckloads of goods. The soldiers I served with, each one caring deeply about the other one. Zahal who made sure that we were well trained and well equipped for our mission. But mostly. Mostly. This was a war that was guided by the Hand of G'd. Everyday we felt His presence -- whether deciding to enter a building by smashing down the back wall rather than entering through the front door, only to discover that the front door had been booby trapped, or searching rooms in a house and uncovering a tunnel under a bed we had lifted where tens of Hamas terrorists were hiding in the hopes of kidnapping one of us, or dozens more stories." I looked at this child's face and saw the extraordinary young man he had become. Filled with faith. Feeling a passion for those values that have held this nation together for thousands of years. And, his very presence. His very modesty. His deep felt pride at being part of this nation. All of this wrapped around my heart and left me humbled. Humbled and grateful. "And I will lift up my eyes unto the mountains, from where my strength will come." From: Ilene Bloch-Levy, e-mail: ilenelevy at netvision.net.il -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090122/a70c2c77/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Thu Jan 22 10:39:23 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (ptyler at aac-usa.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:39:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Dialogue] Gaza - was anything accomplished? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56088.209.155.184.2.1232642363.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> >From Times OnlineJanuary 22, 2009 Backlash begins as Israel split over success of war in Gaza (Ibraheem Abu Mustafa/Reuters) Many of the tunnels used for smuggling in arms under the Egypt-Gaza border carried on working even during the hostilities James Hider, Jerusalem A day after the last of their country's soldiers pulled out of the Gaza, Israelis are increasingly asking themselves just what they were fighting for. The offensive enjoyed massive popular support while under way, but with the guns silent, scathing criticism is emerging from both the Left and the Right about the lack of any clear achievement, other than a huge Palestinian death toll and the damage to Israel?s international reputation. The stated goal at the start of Operation Cast Lead was to end Hamas?s constant rocket fire on southern Israel. Like Hezbollah in the Lebanon war two years ago, Hamas kept on firing rockets until the end of the fighting, and is believed still to have about 1,000 missiles stockpiled, despite Israel?s devastating air strikes on its hidden arsenals. Smugglers say that many of their tunnels under the Egypt-Gaza border carried on working even during the hostilities. Those that were destroyed by Israeli bombing were being repaired and new ones excavated as soon as the fighting ended. While many on the left of the political spectrum argue that the carnage and damage to Israel?s reputation has made the country no more secure, those on the right argue that the offensive ? which at its height enjoyed support from 94 per cent of the population ? failed to go far enough. ?We have not weakened Hamas. The vast majority of its combatants were not harmed and popular support for the organisation has in fact increased,? said Gideon Levy, a prominent commentator for the centre-Left daily Haaretz. ?Their war has intensified the ethos of resistance and determined endurance.? He also scoffed at the idea that Israel?s ferocity in Gaza would make future aggressors think twice about attacking. ?Deterrence, my foot. The deterrence we supposedly achieved in the Second Lebanon War has not had the slightest effect on Hamas, and the one supposedly achieved now isn't working any better: The sporadic firing of rockets from the Gaza Strip has continued over the past few days.? Even Cabinet ministers who backed the attack admitted that it had not achieved anything more than yet another shaky ceasefire with an Iranian-backed group that refuses to recognise the Jewish state?s right to exist. "Hamas has not been taken out, nor will we be able to take them out," said Benjamin Ben-Eliezer, the National Infrastructure Minister and veteran Labour Party politician. "Theirs is an ideology and not just a military organisation, and it will remain.? On the right, criticism was even more scathing. ?The soldiers succeeded, but the politicians failed,? said Avigdor Lieberman of the nationalist Yisrael Beiteinu Party, which has seen its support grow since the conflict. ?They didn?t let the army complete the operation. What was achieved here? Zip, nada.? Eli Yishai, the Finance Minister and head of the ultra-Orthodox religious party Shas, said that Israel should have kept fighting until Hamas was destroyed. ?Now Hamas will rebuild its infrastructure with Iranian money and then they will resume the smuggling and continue firing at Israel. We should have finished the job ? pull out the ground forces and continue striking from the air. "We should have hit thousands more houses and reached a point in which they don't dare shoot at Israel ever again." Mr Levy noted: ?The describing of the operation as a ?military achievement? by the various generals and analysts who offered their take on the operation is plain ridiculous.? ?I?d say it was unclear what was achieved,? said Gabriel Motzkin, an advocate of Israeli-Palestinian reform, noting that more than two years later, critics label the unpopular war in Lebanon a dismal failure, while advocates claim that it has kept the northern border quiet. Many in Israel worry that the war in Gaza may have irrevocably weakened Mahmoud Abbas, President of the Palestinian Authority and leader of the mainstream Fatah movement, whose forces were driven from Gaza by Hamas 18 months ago. Mr Abbas has long been engaged in talks with Israel to create a Palestinian state. Hamas, which is enjoying a surge in grassroots popularity, is offering only a long-term truce. Ehud Olmert, the outgoing Prime Minister, said that the war would strengthen Israel?s hand in indirect talks to secure the release of an Israel soldier captured by Hamas two and a half years ago. But a spokesman for the Popular Resistance Committees, one of the Gaza militant factions, said that their position had not softened at all. "The Israelis are wrong if they think the war will help them pressure us on [Corporal Gilad] Shalit,? said Abu Mujahid. ?Our demands have not changed: The entire list of prisoners we demanded, and in addition, launching talks on lifting the siege." From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 22 11:13:42 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:13:42 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Gaza - was anything accomplished? In-Reply-To: <56088.209.155.184.2.1232642363.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> References: <56088.209.155.184.2.1232642363.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> Message-ID: <012220091713.4218.4978A9450003DDCA0000107A22228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> I think some things have been accomplished. 1. Israel has once again reasserted herself in terms of her reputation for stern response to terrorist threats. 2. The US and the rest of the world have once again reasserted thier reputation for ignoring acts of terrorism (except of course when it threatens us directly) and for holding Israel to a double standard. This will not end until the world realizes that groups like Hamas and Hizbollah cannot be treated with the respect given to soveriegn countries, they must be elimininated. Israel cannot do that on her own as long as the liberal media continues to paint her as the aggressor and the rest of the world wrings thier hands in self -righteous indignation. As I recall, the ceasefire agreement and withdrawal were predicated on the condition that the smuggling tunnels and rearmament were to stop (hello Egypt, France, Checkoslovakia, USA). It is foolish to judge the outcome of this on whether Israel did or did not go far enough. It is wiser to judge the outcome on whether the rest of the world did 9or is doing) enough (or anything at all for that matter). -- John C. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from ptyler at aac-usa.com: -------------- > >From Times OnlineJanuary 22, 2009 > > Backlash begins as Israel split over success of war in Gaza > (Ibraheem Abu Mustafa/Reuters) > > Many of the tunnels used for smuggling in arms under the Egypt-Gaza border > carried on working even during the hostilities > James Hider, Jerusalem A day after the last of their country's soldiers > pulled out of the Gaza, Israelis are increasingly asking themselves just > what they were fighting for. > > The offensive enjoyed massive popular support while under way, but with > the guns silent, scathing criticism is emerging from both the Left and the > Right about the lack of any clear achievement, other than a huge > Palestinian death toll and the damage to Israel?s international > reputation. > > The stated goal at the start of Operation Cast Lead was to end Hamas?s > constant rocket fire on southern Israel. Like Hezbollah in the Lebanon war > two years ago, Hamas kept on firing rockets until the end of the fighting, > and is believed still to have about 1,000 missiles stockpiled, despite > Israel?s devastating air strikes on its hidden arsenals. > > Smugglers say that many of their tunnels under the Egypt-Gaza border > carried on working even during the hostilities. Those that were destroyed > by Israeli bombing were being repaired and new ones excavated as soon as > the fighting ended. > > While many on the left of the political spectrum argue that the carnage > and damage to Israel?s reputation has made the country no more secure, > those on the right argue that the offensive ? which at its height enjoyed > support from 94 per cent of the population ? failed to go far enough. > > ?We have not weakened Hamas. The vast majority of its combatants were not > harmed and popular support for the organisation has in fact increased,? > said Gideon Levy, a prominent commentator for the centre-Left daily > Haaretz. ?Their war has intensified the ethos of resistance and determined > endurance.? > > He also scoffed at the idea that Israel?s ferocity in Gaza would make > future aggressors think twice about attacking. ?Deterrence, my foot. The > deterrence we supposedly achieved in the Second Lebanon War has not had > the slightest effect on Hamas, and the one supposedly achieved now isn't > working any better: The sporadic firing of rockets from the Gaza Strip has > continued over the past few days.? > > Even Cabinet ministers who backed the attack admitted that it had not > achieved anything more than yet another shaky ceasefire with an > Iranian-backed group that refuses to recognise the Jewish state?s right to > exist. > > "Hamas has not been taken out, nor will we be able to take them out," said > Benjamin Ben-Eliezer, the National Infrastructure Minister and veteran > Labour Party politician. "Theirs is an ideology and not just a military > organisation, and it will remain.? > > On the right, criticism was even more scathing. ?The soldiers succeeded, > but the politicians failed,? said Avigdor Lieberman of the nationalist > Yisrael Beiteinu Party, which has seen its support grow since the > conflict. ?They didn?t let the army complete the operation. What was > achieved here? Zip, nada.? > > Eli Yishai, the Finance Minister and head of the ultra-Orthodox religious > party Shas, said that Israel should have kept fighting until Hamas was > destroyed. > > ?Now Hamas will rebuild its infrastructure with Iranian money and then > they will resume the smuggling and continue firing at Israel. We should > have finished the job ? pull out the ground forces and continue striking > from the air. > > "We should have hit thousands more houses and reached a point in which > they don't dare shoot at Israel ever again." > > Mr Levy noted: ?The describing of the operation as a ?military > achievement? by the various generals and analysts who offered their take > on the operation is plain ridiculous.? > > ?I?d say it was unclear what was achieved,? said Gabriel Motzkin, an > advocate of Israeli-Palestinian reform, noting that more than two years > later, critics label the unpopular war in Lebanon a dismal failure, while > advocates claim that it has kept the northern border quiet. > > Many in Israel worry that the war in Gaza may have irrevocably weakened > Mahmoud Abbas, President of the Palestinian Authority and leader of the > mainstream Fatah movement, whose forces were driven from Gaza by Hamas 18 > months ago. > > Mr Abbas has long been engaged in talks with Israel to create a > Palestinian state. Hamas, which is enjoying a surge in grassroots > popularity, is offering only a long-term truce. > > Ehud Olmert, the outgoing Prime Minister, said that the war would > strengthen Israel?s hand in indirect talks to secure the release of an > Israel soldier captured by Hamas two and a half years ago. But a spokesman > for the Popular Resistance Committees, one of the Gaza militant factions, > said that their position had not softened at all. > > "The Israelis are wrong if they think the war will help them pressure us > on [Corporal Gilad] Shalit,? said Abu Mujahid. ?Our demands have not > changed: The entire list of prisoners we demanded, and in addition, > launching talks on lifting the siege." > > > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090122/514e9371/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jan 22 15:02:35 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:02:35 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] HANOCH. Message-ID: <4978DEEB.2080903@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090123/99ee673f/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Thu Jan 22 15:25:19 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:25:19 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] HANOCH. In-Reply-To: <4978DEEB.2080903@westnet.com.au> References: <4978DEEB.2080903@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Yes, Joe, hopefully and prayerfully by the grace and mercy of HaShem, our dear brother Hanoch ben Zeisal, will be healed and be granted a Refuah Shlema. May "none of these diseases" that afflicted the Egyptians come upon him while he is in the hospital because he is one of HaShem's special ones who keeps His commandments! May our collective prayersreach the ear of HaShem! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Joe Indomenico Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:03 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] HANOCH. Shalom Chaverim, unfortunately Hanoch left for the hospital a couple of hours ago. His regime of rest and antibiotics have not worked at this point. The insidious infection has not abated. He envisages being in hospital between 3-5 days whilst he undergoes IV antibiotic treatment. Naturally he is not happy about this outcome, but knows that it is necessary. At this point all our collective prayers concerning Hanoch ben Zeisal will be greatly appreciated. May HaShem grant Hanoch a refuah shlema and be confident that HaShem will bring about a positive outcome from this situation. There is always a reason behind the challenges in life. We do not understand in most cases, the why? It is for us to trust and accept. Again, thank you all on behalf of Hanoch, for your continued support and prayers. The next email, I pray will be one of glad tidings. Shabbat Shalom JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090122/48823a95/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Thu Jan 22 17:05:29 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:05:29 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] HANOCH. In-Reply-To: References: <4978DEEB.2080903@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Thank you, Joe, for this update about our precious brother, Hanoch. We will keep praying until he is healed and safely back in his own home. And Betty, I'm with you in praying that none of the diseases that afflicted the Egyptians come upon Hanoch. He most definitely is one of HaShem's special ones who keeps His Commandments.........and he is our special one too. I truly believe HaShem is listening to every prayer that is going forth on Hanoch's behalf from his brothers and sisters all over the world. And I also believe that as we come together to pray for all our loved ones, we are strengthening that one heart (of which Malachi spoke) we all share with our fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We are becoming united again as a people. My love to you all, Avigail/Pat From: Betty Givin Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 4:25 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] HANOCH. Yes, Joe, hopefully and prayerfully by the grace and mercy of HaShem, our dear brother Hanoch ben Zeisal, will be healed and be granted a Refuah Shlema. May "none of these diseases" that afflicted the Egyptians come upon him while he is in the hospital because he is one of HaShem's special ones who keeps His commandments! May our collective prayersreach the ear of HaShem! Elisheva/Betty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Joe Indomenico Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:03 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] HANOCH. Shalom Chaverim, unfortunately Hanoch left for the hospital a couple of hours ago. His regime of rest and antibiotics have not worked at this point. The insidious infection has not abated. He envisages being in hospital between 3-5 days whilst he undergoes IV antibiotic treatment. Naturally he is not happy about this outcome, but knows that it is necessary. At this point all our collective prayers concerning Hanoch ben Zeisal will be greatly appreciated. May HaShem grant Hanoch a refuah shlema and be confident that HaShem will bring about a positive outcome from this situation. There is always a reason behind the challenges in life. We do not understand in most cases, the why? It is for us to trust and accept. Again, thank you all on behalf of Hanoch, for your continued support and prayers. The next email, I pray will be one of glad tidings. Shabbat Shalom JOE. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090122/c5b72144/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jan 22 17:13:44 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:13:44 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Ukrain Supports Israel] Message-ID: <4978FDA8.3050204@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090123/5bc418c6/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: cody oneill Subject: [Dialogue] Ukrain Supports Israel Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:58:00 -0800 (PST) Size: 7890 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090123/5bc418c6/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jan 22 17:16:31 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:16:31 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] HANOCH.] Message-ID: <4978FE4F.3010204@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090123/9bf63931/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Patricia Robbins" Subject: Re: [Dialogue] HANOCH. Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:05:29 -0500 Size: 14743 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090123/9bf63931/attachment.eml From RNDAVAR at aol.com Sun Jan 25 02:36:27 2009 From: RNDAVAR at aol.com (RNDAVAR at aol.com) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:36:27 EST Subject: [Dialogue] Things Message-ID: Shalom! First, I wanted to say that I had a nice conversation with Hanoch this evening. He is still in the hospital bed, but is hopeful that he will be released soon as they are seeing progress. He of course gave the glory to God for the healing, and was thankful for the prayers of all of us. He did say that he would give a report when he is released. I also wanted to say thanks for all of the compliments on the classes. Those that know me, understand that I do it simply because I love God and love to teach. I often say that I would teach whether anyone even listened...and in fact have done it in the past:) It is late. After 2:00 A.M. and I just closed my Bible. I have been preparing my Sunday Shul class for tomorrow evening. I am really excited about this class and if you have not had the opportunity to catch my teachings over the last 9 or so weeks, you may want to listen to tomorrow's class. I plan to tie all of this together in my class. As most of you know I have been covering the material as set forth in James Tabor's Restoring Abrahamic Faith. I feel that I am to teach a conclusion to the series tomorrow night and I truly believe that it will summarize the last several weeks. This of course does not mean that I am finished with Abrahamic Faith. To the contrary, I feel that these classes were for the purpose of laying a foundation for what is to come. I have not yet asked James about this, but we may do a joint podcast soon to discuss Abrahamic Faith to be aired in the coming weeks. I have recently felt inspired to begin a "talk show" of sorts where I would interview various people or discuss things related to our common quest. I may even invite some that strongly disagree with me on air to dispute me or something fun like that! God knows there are a few out there who would love that opportunity! At any rate, I hope that you are able to listen in tomorrow evening. Below is the information that you will need: Sunday Shul Live When: 6:00 P.M. Central Time Where: On the World Wide Web in the Synagogue Without Walls _www.Rootsoffaith.net_ (http://www.Rootsoffaith.net) Or direct through the following audio and video links If the hyperlinks do not show up, copy and paste the URL Links: Windows Media Feed mms://listenwma.arba4.net/ Streaming MP3 Feed _http://listenmp3.arba4.net/_ (http://listenmp3.arba4.net/) Video: _http://www.mogulus.com/rootsoffaith_ (http://www.mogulus.com/rootsoffaith) Shalom to all of you, Ross Ross K. Nichols _www.RootsofFaith.org_ (http://www.rootsoffaith.org/) **************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090125/b228472b/attachment.html From correim at gninc.ca Sun Jan 25 15:24:32 2009 From: correim at gninc.ca (Cornie Reimer) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:24:32 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Re: ToraLife 2 In-Reply-To: <1102425821655.1100928836509.2711.4.24015001@scheduler> References: <1102425821655.1100928836509.2711.4.24015001@scheduler> Message-ID: <497CD890.1020408@gninc.ca> Shalom to all I some times look down my nose, doubting my purpose here on this planet. What am I here for? This following message, as do many, especially of Jewish content, give me hope when there may seem to be so little I can do individually. I live in a community where I am to keep my mouth shut, as I am after all not a Christian any more like them, I am a misfit. And yet one thing I realize I can do, I can try to live in peace with all I meet. But what good is that to humanity? Well, that may not be your case. But for me it some times seems so inconspicuously little that I can bring forth to lift up those that are in need of it. I just love to read articles like the one below, and books like Restoring Abrahamic Faith, and many more. Right now I am almost done with a book "Jews, God and History", by Max I. Dimont. (A 1962 model) A very detailed, and as it seems to me very unbiased History of the Jewish people, throughout their history.This story gives me an idea that impresses me how truly miraculous the Jewish people have survived through all the tests of their life, all over the world. They have not excluded themselves from the rest of the world, yet they have not been able to be torn from their Torah and Talmud influence. They are a peace loving people which may be the very cause of their being hated, being the cause they don't seem to fit in to the rest of the world. And yet, miraculously they survive it all. I can forgive them now, for not being just like they were when they were given the Torah at mount Sinai, they had to learn to fit in to their circumstances, change time and again, without losing themselves from who they are. A light to the nations. I thought this might interest others too. May Hashem bless you all. Cornie KosherTorah.com wrote: > Having trouble viewing this email? Click here > > > > $Account.OrganizationName > 29 Tevet 5769; January 25, 2009 > > > > > Shalom to one and all... > > Thank you all who have been showing your support for KOSHERTORAH. > > /And now... the fulfillment of prophecy shall commence... it will not > unfold as expected... the scholars will be baffled... we have entered > the time of the great test of faith... where good will appear evil and > evil will appear good... the wise will know what to do... when their > minds are still and their hearts are unfettered to Earth and open to > Heaven... this is the secret of the final 7000... if you ask, you will > not be answered... if you are silent... then you will hear all you > need... and more.../ > > > TorahLife 2 > by HaRav Ariel Bar Tzadok. Copyright (C) 2009 by Ariel Bar Tzadok. All > rights reserved. > > * /"An agent of evil will fall into bad; a faithful messenger will > bring healing."/* (Proverbs 13:17) > > The universe has its own state of innate balance. Try as we may to > alter the natural way; in the end there will only be failure. This is > inevitable. For being mere mortal humans our influence upon our world > is insignificant at best. Our world is far greater than are we, either > as individuals or as a race. > > The Earth was not created by human beings, nor shall it be destroyed > by them. Sully and smitten the Earth we may, but in the end, the Earth > will cleanse herself of the dirt and that which causes the dirt as a > cat would lick its paws. > > We human beings come from a Divine origin, so too does our planet. We > are endowed with a Divine mission of accomplishment and a collective > destiny of greatness; so too is our planet. Although we human beings > are created in the Divine Image, we have not been given Divine power > or authority to destroy. We can create and make things better, but > there is a limit to what we can destroy and how much worse we can make > things to be. > > When we follow the Divinely ordained natural law we live in harmony > with our world and our universe. When we think ourselves clever and > proclaim ourselves above natural law we inadvertently transform > ourselves into agents of evil. We do not see the ultimate destruction > and bad that results and await us because of our mortal arrogant human > foolishness. > > Let no one be so deceived to believe that there is no pay back and > that injustice continues forever. Look back into history at the mighty > nations and empires that have arisen and fallen. Their only remnants > are relics in museums and information on pages in history books. > > The mighty have indeed been toppled. Nature itself directed the course > of human events and the Divine order spoke into the hearts and minds > of the collective consciousness. One nation rose to the heights. In > its arrogance it became drunk with power. It grew fat and became lazy. > Soon, its replacement arose, filled with righteous indignation, it > struck down that which had become unable to sustain itself. > > The replacement then ascended to the heights of power, it too them > became arrogant, fat and lazy. It too provoked righteous indignation > in yet a third, which came and did to it exactly what it had done to > its predecessor. Then came the forth, the fifth and so on. This has > been the history of humanity. > > Righteousness is good motivation; but righteousness must never be > complacent. Arrogance, fatness and laziness are evils that violate the > Divinely ordained natural law. Once they are embraced evil is sure to > follow. One cannot become an agent of evil and expect good to result. > Such a consideration is madness and the heights of delusion and self > deception. > > When one is faithful to the Divinely ordained natural order, one is > faithful to oneself, one's home and to one's Source. Such faithfulness > creates an alignment and balance that naturally brings in its stead > healing and all things good. > > Faithfulness means proper alignment and steadfastness to one's > relationship to the Source. There is no greater source for healing in > the universe than for one to be in proper alignment with the Force > above that is the source of all below. > > This is the Divinely ordained natural law. And remember this; the > Divinely ordained natural law is in Hebrew called Torah. Torah brings > healing in its wings and restores the soul to those who have lost it. > > ------------------------------------------- > > Shalom, HaRav Ariel Bar Tzadok > > # Support KosherTorah > > # Online Store for CDs, Books and more... > > > email: koshertorah1 at yahoo.com > phone: 818-345-0888 > web: http://www.koshertorah.com > > > > > *Stop! */*Take a moment*/, and say a sincere /*"thank you" to HaShem > */for all the the good things you have right now. > > > *Forward email > * > > Safe Unsubscribe > > > This email was sent to correim at gninc.ca by koshertorah1 at yahoo.com > . > Update Profile/Email Address > > | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe > ^(TM) > | Privacy Policy > . > > Email Marketing by > > > KosherTorah.com | 18375 Ventura Blvd. Suite 314 | Tarzana | CA | 91356 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090125/26b1a289/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Sun Jan 25 16:29:33 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:29:33 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] "There's no place like home.." Message-ID: <855590370901251429n3405a48ciddee26b23bbffc7c@mail.gmail.com> Shalom to all, Thank you for your prayers, thoughts and encouraging emails and phone calls. I just got home, and yes, '..there's no place like home..' HaShem was very good and HE was indeed merciful... I'll spare you the gory details, but I was headed for vascular surgery, had an abscess on top of the leg infection, AND the infection (white count 23,000) had already spread to my lymph glands. From *there *to home in slightly more then 48 hours was pretty startling. I have to go elevate the leg now, there is a huge open incision - going to get a Homecare nurse for a few days to change the wound dressing. However, lying in a New York City Hospital emergency room for 10 hours ("no room at the Inn..."), I saw and heard the most horrific stories, so we must all count our brachot (blessings). HaShem was very kind to me....time for me to repay it..... B'Ahavat Yehuda v'Yisrael, * Hanoch* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090125/7f2e2354/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Sun Jan 25 16:37:00 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:37:00 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] "There's no place like home.." In-Reply-To: <855590370901251429n3405a48ciddee26b23bbffc7c@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901251429n3405a48ciddee26b23bbffc7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <02d301c97f3d$74daaab0$5e900010$@com> Hey Hanoch! So glad to have you back, it sounds like you have through quite an ordeal. We have been praying for your full recovery. Wish I lived closer, I would come and help you. Rock on! Patty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 5:30 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] "There's no place like home.." Shalom to all, Thank you for your prayers, thoughts and encouraging emails and phone calls. I just got home, and yes, '..there's no place like home..' HaShem was very good and HE was indeed merciful... I'll spare you the gory details, but I was headed for vascular surgery, had an abscess on top of the leg infection, AND the infection (white count 23,000) had already spread to my lymph glands. From there to home in slightly more then 48 hours was pretty startling. I have to go elevate the leg now, there is a huge open incision - going to get a Homecare nurse for a few days to change the wound dressing. However, lying in a New York City Hospital emergency room for 10 hours ("no room at the Inn..."), I saw and heard the most horrific stories, so we must all count our brachot (blessings). HaShem was very kind to me....time for me to repay it..... B'Ahavat Yehuda v'Yisrael, Hanoch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090125/c48d8605/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Sun Jan 25 18:18:34 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:18:34 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] "There's no place like home.." In-Reply-To: <855590370901251429n3405a48ciddee26b23bbffc7c@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901251429n3405a48ciddee26b23bbffc7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <74DCEA97ED33434C9D397275C884F557@bettylaptop> Amen! Hanoch, I can't tell you the overwhelming feeling of joy and thanksgiving that I received when I opened up my emails and found this post from you! HaShem in his mercy is indeed bringing you a Refuah Shlema! Our prayers round the globe have been answered, both privately and corporately. I said a Mi Sheberach for you in services yesterday morning and like many others have been praying for you several times a day for the past week. Baruch HaShem! If you take about an hour, you just might be able to get thru all the posts in which so many of us expressed our love and concern for you and joined together in prayer for your recovery. You are indeed 'much loved' amongst us! Now that you are home and recovering, Pat and I are expecting you to 'jump over that wall' before too long! The wall is spoken of in Psalms 18:30 as in the PR that I received for you several days ago. Read Psalms 18:22-34, when you get a chance.B'Ahava Rabba v' Shavuah tov. B' Ahavat Yehuda v'Yisrael, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 4:30 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] "There's no place like home.." Shalom to all, Thank you for your prayers, thoughts and encouraging emails and phone calls. I just got home, and yes, '..there's no place like home..' HaShem was very good and HE was indeed merciful... I'll spare you the gory details, but I was headed for vascular surgery, had an abscess on top of the leg infection, AND the infection (white count 23,000) had already spread to my lymph glands. From there to home in slightly more then 48 hours was pretty startling. I have to go elevate the leg now, there is a huge open incision - going to get a Homecare nurse for a few days to change the wound dressing. However, lying in a New York City Hospital emergency room for 10 hours ("no room at the Inn..."), I saw and heard the most horrific stories, so we must all count our brachot (blessings). HaShem was very kind to me....time for me to repay it..... B'Ahavat Yehuda v'Yisrael, Hanoch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090125/ee031495/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Sun Jan 25 19:36:11 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:36:11 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] "There's no place like home.." In-Reply-To: <855590370901251429n3405a48ciddee26b23bbffc7c@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901251429n3405a48ciddee26b23bbffc7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: How incredible to hear from you Hanoch--at last! Just as I am listening live to Ross teach one of the clearest and most powerfully presented messages on biblical faith that I have ever heard... Good start to the week as we say goodbye to our Shabbat Queen, James On Jan 25, 2009, at 5:29 PM, Hanoch Young wrote: > Shalom to all, > > Thank you for your prayers, thoughts and encouraging emails and > phone calls. I just got home, and yes, '..there's no place like > home..' HaShem was very good and HE was indeed merciful... > > I'll spare you the gory details, but I was headed for vascular > surgery, had an abscess on top of the leg infection, AND the > infection (white count 23,000) had already spread to my lymph glands. > > From there to home in slightly more then 48 hours was pretty > startling. I have to go elevate the leg now, there is a huge open > incision - going to get a Homecare nurse for a few days to change > the wound dressing. > > However, lying in a New York City Hospital emergency room for > 10 hours ("no room at the Inn..."), I saw and heard the most > horrific stories, so we must all count our brachot (blessings). > > HaShem was very kind to me....time for me to repay it..... > > B'Ahavat Yehuda v'Yisrael, > Hanoch > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090125/bbb025c7/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Sun Jan 25 19:47:03 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:47:03 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] "There's no place like home.."] Message-ID: <497D1617.3050101@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/8e4694dd/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Hanoch Young Subject: [Dialogue] "There's no place like home.." Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:29:33 -0800 Size: 6833 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/8e4694dd/attachment.eml From shdennis at rogers.com Sun Jan 25 19:47:38 2009 From: shdennis at rogers.com (Stephen & Sharon) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:47:38 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "There's no place like home.." In-Reply-To: References: <855590370901251429n3405a48ciddee26b23bbffc7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8BBF89D748624237A3978E1F82B197D2@Beeblebrox> Wonderful to hear from you, Hanoch! Praise be to HaShem! ....And yes James, I agree with you about tonight's teaching. A blaze of light into the darkness! Stephen and Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: James Tabor To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] "There's no place like home.." How incredible to hear from you Hanoch--at last! Just as I am listening live to Ross teach one of the clearest and most powerfully presented messages on biblical faith that I have ever heard... Good start to the week as we say goodbye to our Shabbat Queen, James On Jan 25, 2009, at 5:29 PM, Hanoch Young wrote: Shalom to all, Thank you for your prayers, thoughts and encouraging emails and phone calls. I just got home, and yes, '..there's no place like home..' HaShem was very good and HE was indeed merciful... I'll spare you the gory details, but I was headed for vascular surgery, had an abscess on top of the leg infection, AND the infection (white count 23,000) had already spread to my lymph glands. From there to home in slightly more then 48 hours was pretty startling. I have to go elevate the leg now, there is a huge open incision - going to get a Homecare nurse for a few days to change the wound dressing. However, lying in a New York City Hospital emergency room for 10 hours ("no room at the Inn..."), I saw and heard the most horrific stories, so we must all count our brachot (blessings). HaShem was very kind to me....time for me to repay it..... B'Ahavat Yehuda v'Yisrael, Hanoch _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090125/34641ec5/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Sun Jan 25 21:49:57 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:49:57 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Re: ToraLife 2] Message-ID: <497D32E5.1000404@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/8b22d873/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Cornie Reimer Subject: [Dialogue] Re: ToraLife 2 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:24:32 -0600 Size: 39822 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/8b22d873/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Mon Jan 26 02:46:16 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 18:46:16 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] With All of Your Soul: One Soldier's Unforgettable Story Message-ID: <497D7858.1040501@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/ebdb4ce9/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 09:05:53 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:05:53 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] "There's no place like home.." In-Reply-To: <855590370901251429n3405a48ciddee26b23bbffc7c@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901251429n3405a48ciddee26b23bbffc7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Have been out of town, but Betty called me with the wonderful news last night! BARUCH HASHEM FOR HIS WONDERFUL LOVE AND CARE OVER HIS SERVANTS!!!!!!! So thankful to see your, post, Hanoch! Am still praying for you that you will be restored to 100% by His Most Bountiful Grace and Mercy. You have been so sorely missed, dear friend. Love, Pat From: Hanoch Young Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 5:29 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] "There's no place like home.." Shalom to all, Thank you for your prayers, thoughts and encouraging emails and phone calls. I just got home, and yes, '..there's no place like home..' HaShem was very good and HE was indeed merciful... I'll spare you the gory details, but I was headed for vascular surgery, had an abscess on top of the leg infection, AND the infection (white count 23,000) had already spread to my lymph glands. From there to home in slightly more then 48 hours was pretty startling. I have to go elevate the leg now, there is a huge open incision - going to get a Homecare nurse for a few days to change the wound dressing. However, lying in a New York City Hospital emergency room for 10 hours ("no room at the Inn..."), I saw and heard the most horrific stories, so we must all count our brachot (blessings). HaShem was very kind to me....time for me to repay it..... B'Ahavat Yehuda v'Yisrael, Hanoch -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/903ad1ec/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Mon Jan 26 10:44:09 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:44:09 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Re: ToraLife 2] In-Reply-To: <497D32E5.1000404@westnet.com.au> References: <497D32E5.1000404@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <5C39DDD845674BF99BC9D296715F8096@bettylaptop> Shalom Cornie and Joe, Thank you for sending this message from Rabbi Tzadok, Cornie. He always has insightful comments and teachings, and thank you, Joe, for your response. I agree that sometimes we think we as individuals are too small to make a difference, yet we can never emphasize the importance of just one mitzvah..it can definitely have a domino effect. When you think of something a small as a smile, you can see how it works.smiles are contagious.as are good deeds. Thanks for the encouragement! I appreciate you both for your outright love and your honesty. Take heart, Cornie.your life is important and it means something special to HaShem and to all of us, your friends, and I am sure it means something to those around you, even though they may not show it.they would be in a vacuum if it were not for you. Please write us anytime you need to pour your heart out.we are here.and we care. L'shalom v' ahava, (peace and love) Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Joe Indomenico Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 9:50 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Re: ToraLife 2] Shalom Cornie, Well said . I too love to read the messages from Rabbi Ariel bar Tzadok. You dutifully put into perspective the survival of the Jewish nation ........ against all odds. This is so paramount in our understanding of The Holy One , blessed be He. Yes, they have come a long way from Har Sinai with all the trials and tribulations. Miracles of miracles , to the glory of HaShem, they are still to be reckoned with. The very trait that the world has cursed them with, that is their stiff necks, is the actual attribute that in the end HaShem has harnessed to be transformed into the abundant blessings of the nations. Just imagine if they had bowed the knee to Christianity or Islam en masse. Would we still have the Torah and Tanach in all purity? Definitely not !! We , the G-d fearers would not have any roots of faith to return to. Period. As you say, they have been chosen as HaShem's witnesses to be a light unto the nations. The light that was present at Har Sinai is still present today over 3,300 years later. As the rabbis teach, the Shkenah went into exile with G-d's chosen people and will return with them at the time of the final Geula or redemption and ingathering. Baruch HaShem. As the article states the Divine Natural Order is always in pure balance. When things are not in perfect harmony , the Divine correction is always at hand to make the appropriate adjustments. Hence we see the startling events that are occurring in the political, social, financial and environmental arenas of human life. The correction is in full swing. When one is faithful to the Divinely ordained natural order, one is faithful to oneself, one's home and to one's Source. Such faithfulness creates an alignment and balance that naturally brings in its stead healing and all things good. Faithfulness means proper alignment and steadfastness to one's relationship to the Source. There is no greater source for healing in the universe than for one to be in proper alignment with the Force above that is the source of all below. Cornie, this a very profound statement. It brings together the macro with the micro , the infinite with the finite and the natural with the supra natural. This is classic rabbinical teaching. I hope that this will answer many of your own doubts regarding your isolation. The core teaching highlights how we as individuals can make a difference in our own limited lives. When we individually undertake to adjust the matters of our lives, such as personal relationships , we are actually corporately transforming the spiritual reality of the universe. As the dictum goes ; " If ones keeps one mitzva, it is as if he or she created the universe. If one breaks even one of the least mitzvot, it is as if he or she destroyed the universe " Hence we can understand the rabbinic emphasis on the keeping of the commandments. For the keeping of one will lead to the keeping of another, and so on. We sometimes see ourselves living an ordinary hum drum existence without seeing much fruit. However , the "tikkun" or rectification that the rabbis talk about has much to do with the transformation of the mundane into the holy. In this way, bit by bit, little by little as we submit to the will of HaShem, we begin to repair our lives and those of the people around us. This in turn has the domino effect which then gains momentum as it then starts to define the corporate expression. HaShem is the Almighty who makes the little matters count. May we all merit to be part of this world wide tikkun as the "Malchut Shamayim" or the Kingdom of Heaven manifests itself before our very eyes. This is HaShem's doing. Let us be confident and rejoice in this : L'Olam chasdo ( His Mercy endureth forever. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/3657ed48/attachment.html From chattertonw at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 26 11:55:49 2009 From: chattertonw at bellsouth.net (chattertonw at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:55:49 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] "There's no place like home.." In-Reply-To: <855590370901251429n3405a48ciddee26b23bbffc7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <012620091755.27426.497DF924000C98C600006B2222230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9902019B9D0A9B9B0E080C@att.net> Welcome back, brother Judah... we missed you! -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Shalom to all, Thank you for your prayers, thoughts and encouraging emails and phone calls. I just got home, and yes, '..there's no place like home..' HaShem was very good and HE was indeed merciful... I'll spare you the gory details, but I was headed for vascular surgery, had an abscess on top of the leg infection, AND the infection (white count 23,000) had already spread to my lymph glands. From there to home in slightly more then 48 hours was pretty startling. I have to go elevate the leg now, there is a huge open incision - going to get a Homecare nurse for a few days to change the wound dressing. However, lying in a New York City Hospital emergency room for 10 hours ("no room at the Inn..."), I saw and heard the most horrific stories, so we must all count our brachot (blessings). HaShem was very kind to me....time for me to repay it..... B'Ahavat Yehuda v'Yisrael, Hanoch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/dbfedd7f/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 13:38:54 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:38:54 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] MUST SEE - what Islam is not (PLEASE Distribute) Message-ID: <855590370901261138u125057aahbe3861195b818c54@mail.gmail.com> PLEASE send this to everyone you know who cares about Israel, America, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism or Budaism...This is NOT to be missed.... *Hanoch* * http://perfectlyhuman click on 'video' * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/645b5014/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Mon Jan 26 16:48:09 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:48:09 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID Chip Maker VeriChip In-Reply-To: <855590370901261138u125057aahbe3861195b818c54@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901261138u125057aahbe3861195b818c54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <036f01c98008$2acea810$806bf830$@com> Integration Story: Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID Chip Maker VeriChip By Beth Bacheldor, RFID Journal, Inc. Microsoft plans to make VeriChip's VeriMed Health Link system accessible through Microsoft's HealthVault platform, a secure, online repository that consumers can use for free to manage their health records. The VeriMed Health Link system includes implantable passive RFID tags used for human patient identification and medical records tracking, as well as a hosted database for storing electronic medical records. According to Sean Nolan, the chief architect for HealthVault, VeriChip is the first RFID company to partner with Microsoft on the online platform. "We created the HealthVault platform to help jump-start innovation around health care," Nolan says. "Our belief was that if we did the hard plumbing work to make it easy for individuals to collect and share their health information, forward-looking companies would seize on the opportunity to provide new solutions to difficult health-care challenges. VeriChip's decision to integrate the VeriMed product with HealthVault is clear evidence that the market is responding." Unveiled in 2007, HealthVault lets consumers set up their own private health-record repository so they can manage their health and wellness information online. To protect this personal data, the information is encrypted and users can also set up personal privacy controls, including a password, and determine which information is stored in the account, as well as who can access it (see Microsoft Seeks RFID Support for HealthVault). Used with permission from RFID Journal, Inc. http://www.rfidsolutionsonline.com/download.mvc/Microsoft-Partners-With-Impl antable-RFID-Chip-0001 Bottom of Form -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/0d6c6a93/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 17:01:05 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:01:05 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: MUST SEE - what Islam is not (PLEASE Distribute) In-Reply-To: <855590370901261138u125057aahbe3861195b818c54@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901261138u125057aahbe3861195b818c54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <855590370901261501x4756ee2ax352c0efa27224f6d@mail.gmail.com> Click here: Perfectly Human's Subterrainian Circus - What Islam is Not. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Hanoch Young Date: Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:38 AM Subject: MUST SEE - what Islam is not (PLEASE Distribute) To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org PLEASE send this to everyone you know who cares about Israel, America, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism or Budaism...This is NOT to be missed.... *Hanoch* * * http://perfectlyhuman click on 'video' -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/30010680/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 26 17:38:32 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:38:32 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID Chip MakerVeriChip In-Reply-To: <036f01c98008$2acea810$806bf830$@com> References: <855590370901261138u125057aahbe3861195b818c54@mail.gmail.com> <036f01c98008$2acea810$806bf830$@com> Message-ID: <012620092338.11528.497E49770008D64A00002D0822230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> "Protected" huh? Just like credit card account files? -- John C. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Patty " : -------------- Integration Story: Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID Chip Maker VeriChip By Beth Bacheldor, RFID Journal, Inc. Microsoft plans to make VeriChip's VeriMed Health Link system accessible through Microsoft's HealthVault platform, a secure, online repository that consumers can use for free to manage their health records. The VeriMed Health Link system includes implantable passive RFID tags used for human patient identification and medical records tracking, as well as a hosted database for storing electronic medical records. According to Sean Nolan, the chief architect for HealthVault, VeriChip is the first RFID company to partner with Microsoft on the online platform. "We created the HealthVault platform to help jump-start innovation around health care," Nolan says. "Our belief was that if we did the hard plumbing work to make it easy for individuals to collect and share their health information, forward-looking companies would seize on the opportunity to provide new solutions to difficult health-care challenges. VeriChip's decision to integrate the VeriMed product with HealthVault is clear evidence that the market is responding." Unveiled in 2007, HealthVault lets consumers set up their own private health-record repository so they can manage their health and wellness information online. To protect this personal data, the information is encrypted and users can also set up personal privacy controls, including a password, and determine which information is stored in the account, as well as who can access it (see Microsoft Seeks RFID Support for HealthVault). Used with permission from RFID Journal, Inc. http://www.rfidsolutionsonline.com/download.mvc/Microsoft-Partners-With-Implantable-RFID-Chip-0001 Bottom of Form -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/c715bbb9/attachment.html From correim at gninc.ca Mon Jan 26 19:16:40 2009 From: correim at gninc.ca (Cornie Reimer) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:16:40 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Re: ToraLife 2] In-Reply-To: <5C39DDD845674BF99BC9D296715F8096@bettylaptop> References: <497D32E5.1000404@westnet.com.au> <5C39DDD845674BF99BC9D296715F8096@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <497E6078.9050702@gninc.ca> Shalom Betty and Joe for those encouraging words. I love you all. Cornie Betty Givin wrote: > > Shalom Cornie and Joe, > > > > Thank you for sending this message from Rabbi Tzadok, Cornie. He > always has insightful comments and teachings, and thank you, Joe, for > your response. I agree that sometimes we think we as individuals are > too small to make a difference, yet we can never emphasize the > importance of just one mitzvah....it can definitely have a domino > effect. When you think of something a small as a smile, you can see > how it works...smiles are contagious...as are good deeds. Thanks for > the encouragement! I appreciate you both for your outright love and > your honesty. Take heart, Cornie...your life is important and it > means something special to HaShem and to all of us, your friends, and > I am sure it means something to those around you, even though they may > not show it...they would be in a vacuum if it were not for you. > Please write us anytime you need to pour your heart out...we are > here...and we care. > > > > L'shalom v' ahava, (peace and love) > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > > * From: * dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *Joe Indomenico > *Sent:* Sunday, January 25, 2009 9:50 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Fwd: [Dialogue] Re: ToraLife 2] > > > > / Shalom Cornie, > > Well said . I too love to read the messages from Rabbi Ariel bar Tzadok. > > You dutifully put into perspective the survival of the Jewish nation > ........ against all odds. This is so paramount in our understanding > of The Holy One , blessed be He. > Yes, they have come a long way from Har Sinai with all the trials and > tribulations. Miracles of miracles , to the glory of HaShem, they are > still to be reckoned with. The very trait that the world has cursed > them with, that is their stiff necks, is the actual attribute that in > the end HaShem has harnessed to be transformed into the abundant > blessings of the nations. > > Just imagine if they had bowed the knee to Christianity or Islam en > masse. Would we still have the Torah and Tanach in all purity? > Definitely not !! We , the G-d fearers would not have any roots of > faith to return to. Period. > > As you say, they have been chosen as HaShem's witnesses to be a light > unto the nations. The light that was present at Har Sinai is still > present today over 3,300 years later. As the rabbis teach, the Shkenah > went into exile with G-d's chosen people and will return with them at > the time of the final Geula or redemption and ingathering. Baruch HaShem. > > As the article states the Divine Natural Order is always in pure > balance. When things are not in perfect harmony , the Divine > correction is always at hand to make the appropriate adjustments. > Hence we see the startling events that are occurring in the political, > social, financial and environmental arenas of human life. The > correction is in full swing. // / > > When one is faithful to the Divinely ordained natural order, one is > faithful to oneself, one's home and to one's Source. Such faithfulness > creates an alignment and balance that naturally brings in its stead > healing and all things good. / / > > Faithfulness means proper alignment and steadfastness to one's > relationship to the Source. There is no greater source for healing in > the universe than for one to be in proper alignment with the Force > above that is the source of all below. / / > > / > Cornie, this a very profound statement. > It brings together the macro with the micro , the infinite with the > finite and the natural with the supra natural. > This is classic rabbinical teaching. I hope that this will answer many > of your own doubts regarding your isolation. > The core teaching highlights how we as individuals can make a > difference in our own limited lives. When we individually undertake to > adjust the matters of our lives, such as personal relationships , we > are actually corporately transforming the spiritual reality of the > universe. As the dictum goes ; " If ones keeps * one * mitzva, it is > as if he or she created the universe. If one breaks even one of the > least mitzvot, it is as if he or she destroyed the universe " > Hence we can understand the rabbinic emphasis on the keeping of the > commandments. For the keeping of one will lead to the keeping of > another, and so on. > We sometimes see ourselves living an ordinary hum drum existence > without seeing much fruit. However , the "tikkun" or rectification > that the rabbis talk about has much to do with the transformation of > the mundane into the holy. In this way, bit by bit, little by little > as we submit to the will of HaShem, we begin to repair our lives and > those of the people around us. This in turn has the domino effect > which then gains momentum as it then starts to define the corporate > expression. > HaShem is the Almighty who makes the little matters count. > > May we all merit to be part of this world wide tikkun as the "Malchut > Shamayim" or the Kingdom of Heaven manifests itself before our very > eyes. This is HaShem's doing. Let us be confident and rejoice in this > : L'Olam chasdo ( His Mercy endureth forever. > > Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. / > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/50d2be77/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 21:12:48 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:12:48 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip In-Reply-To: <012620092338.11528.497E49770008D64A00002D0822230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <855590370901261138u125057aahbe3861195b818c54@mail.gmail.com><036f01c98008$2acea810$806bf830$@com> <012620092338.11528.497E49770008D64A00002D0822230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: Wow, Patty, this is interesting! If I'm understanding correctly, the "implantable chip" could possibly be akin to the mark in the forehead or right hand of Revelation 13:16. The article below presents the chip idea as quite a useful thing to have in order to monitor one's own health. Sounds like such a great idea, not to mention a great way to get people used to walking around with a chip embedded in their body. Thank you for passing this on. ~ Pat From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 6:38 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip "Protected" huh? Just like credit card account files? -- John C. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Patty " : -------------- Integration Story: Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID Chip Maker VeriChip By Beth Bacheldor, RFID Journal, Inc. Microsoft plans to make VeriChip's VeriMed Health Link system accessible through Microsoft's HealthVault platform, a secure, online repository that consumers can use for free to manage their health records. The VeriMed Health Link system includes implantable passive RFID tags used for human patient identification and medical records tracking, as well as a hosted database for storing electronic medical records. According to Sean Nolan, the chief architect for HealthVault, VeriChip is the first RFID company to partner with Microsoft on the online platform. "We created the HealthVault platform to help jump-start innovation around health care," Nolan says. "Our belief was that if we did the hard plumbing work to make it easy for individuals to collect and share their health information, forward-looking companies would seize on the opportunity to provide new solutions to difficult health-care challenges. VeriChip's decision to integrate the VeriMed product with HealthVault is clear evidence that the market is responding." Unveiled in 2007, HealthVault lets consumers set up their own private health-record repository so they can manage their health and wellness information online. To protect this personal data, the information is encrypted and users can also set up personal privacy controls, including a password, and determine which information is stored in the account, as well as who can access it (see Microsoft Seeks RFID Support for HealthVault). Used with permission from RFID Journal, Inc. http://www.rfidsolutionsonline.com/download.mvc/Microsoft-Partners-With-Implantable-RFID-Chip-0001 Bottom of Form -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/320a4009/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Mon Jan 26 22:30:56 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:30:56 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip In-Reply-To: References: <855590370901261138u125057aahbe3861195b818c54@mail.gmail.com><036f01c98008$2acea810$806bf830$@com> <012620092338.11528.497E49770008D64A00002D0822230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <03a601c98038$0df3b890$29db29b0$@com> Hey there Pat, how are you doing? Without sounding like a Conspiracy Theorist, I think it is creepy. Patty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Patricia Robbins Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 10:13 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip Wow, Patty, this is interesting! If I'm understanding correctly, the "implantable chip" could possibly be akin to the mark in the forehead or right hand of Revelation 13:16. The article below presents the chip idea as quite a useful thing to have in order to monitor one's own health. Sounds like such a great idea, not to mention a great way to get people used to walking around with a chip embedded in their body. Thank you for passing this on. ~ Pat From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 6:38 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip "Protected" huh? Just like credit card account files? -- John C. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Patty " : -------------- Integration Story: Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID Chip Maker VeriChip By Beth Bacheldor, RFID Journal, Inc. Microsoft plans to make VeriChip's VeriMed Health Link system accessible through Microsoft's HealthVault platform, a secure, online repository that consumers can use for free to manage their health records. The VeriMed Health Link system includes implantable passive RFID tags used for human patient identification and medical records tracking, as well as a hosted database for storing electronic medical records. According to Sean Nolan, the chief architect for HealthVault, VeriChip is the first RFID company to partner with Microsoft on the online platform. "We created the HealthVault platform to help jump-start innovation around health care," Nolan says. "Our belief was that if we did the hard plumbing work to make it easy for individuals to collect and share their health information, forward-looking companies would seize on the opportunity to provide new solutions to difficult health-care challenges. VeriChip's decision to integrate the VeriMed product with HealthVault is clear evidence that the market is responding." Unveiled in 2007, HealthVault lets consumers set up their own private health-record repository so they can manage their health and wellness information online. To protect this personal data, the information is encrypted and users can also set up personal privacy controls, including a password, and determine which information is stored in the account, as well as who can access it (see Microsoft Seeks RFID Support for HealthVault). Used with permission from RFID Journal, Inc. http://www.rfidsolutionsonline.com/download.mvc/Microsoft-Partners-With-Implantable-RFID-Chip-0001 Bottom of Form _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090126/3e4af069/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jan 27 07:34:53 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:34:53 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip] Message-ID: <497F0D7D.3080004@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090127/fb2809c9/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Patty " Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:30:56 -0500 Size: 20089 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090127/fb2809c9/attachment.eml From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 07:57:35 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 05:57:35 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] With All of Your Soul: One Soldier's Unforgettable Story In-Reply-To: <497D7858.1040501@westnet.com.au> References: <497D7858.1040501@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <855590370901270557i16f49c50hb8574307816e357a@mail.gmail.com> Shalom Joe, Toda for passing on such an amazing video...I'm not sure if I had ever cried AND had 'goose-bumps" at the same time before! And thanks for remembering my comment at the start of this 'Gaza War' - I KNEW I would be right, but SO hoped I would be proven wrong. But I wasn't...not a single leader among the 3 Stooges... Luv ya Mate! * Hanoch * On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 12:46 AM, Joe Indomenico wrote: > *Shalom Chaverim, > > as Hanoch rightfully said, * " Don't misunderstand, I don't believe > Israel will fight to WIN, they will fight for a ceasefire, and have foreign > troops stand there while Hamas rearms, just like Hizbollah did 2.5 years > ago." > > *There seems to be a pattern that keeps repeating itself. > The spineless Israeli Government has once again proven that it takes orders > from the USA. > I found it incredibly fascinating that the three week offensive in Gaza > floundered and ran out of puff just prior to the inauguration of Obama. The > new administration wanted the lime light of world media to focus on the "yes > we can" man of the moment. The messiah of the masses. > > Meanwhile 7 Israeli soldiers and three Israeli civilians died in vain, not > to mention the lost corporal Gillad Shallit. > Yes, we are hearing of incredible stories of boundless courage and open > miracles . Some of you have already posted these feats. > > There is a halachah that is written in Rambam's "Mishneh Torah - Hilchot > Melachim U'Milchamoteihem" Chapter 7 Halachah 15: > * > Whom does the phrase "Is there a man who is afraid or faint- hearted" refer > to? The phrase should be interpreted simply as applying to a person whose > heart is not strong enough to stand in the throes of battle. > Once a soldier enters the throes of battle, he should rely on the Hope of > Israel and its saviour in time of need. He should realize that he is > fighting for the sake of the Oneness of G-d's Holy Name. Therefore , he > should place his soul in His Hand and not show fright or fear. > > He should not worry about his wife or children. On the contrary, he should > wipe their memory from his heart, removing all thoughts but those of war > from his mind. > > Anyone who begins to feel anxious and worried in the midst of battle to the > point where he frightens himself violates a negative commandment, as it is > written in Deuteronomy 20:3 " Do not be faint-hearted. Do not be afraid. Do > not panic and do not break ranks before them." > > Furthermore, he is responsible for the blood of the entire Jewish nation. > If he is not valiant, if he does not wage war with all his heart and soul , > it is considered as if he shed the blood of the entire people as (ibid 20:8) > states : "Let him go home, lest he demoralize the hearts of his brethren as > his own." Similarly, the prophetic tradition explicitly states : " Cursed be > he who does G-d's work deceitfully. Cursed be he who withholds his sword > from blood." ( Jeremiah 48:10). > > By contrast, anyone who fights with his entire heart, without fear, with > the sole intention of sanctifying , may be assured that he will come to > harm, nor will evil overtake him. He will be granted a well-rooted family in > Israel and gather merit for himself and his children forever. He will also > merit eternal life in the World to Come, as ( 1 Samuel 25 :28-29 ) states : > "G-d will certainly make my lord a faithful house, for my lord fights the > wars of G-d and evil will not be found with you ...... and my lord's soul > will be a bond of life with G-d. > > *Whilst the first part of this refers to the gutless wonders within the > defunct government of Israel, I would like to share with you the epitome of > the Israeli army that sanctify the Oneness of HaShem's Holy Name. Major > David Shapira is a walking, living " SH'MA YISRAEL." > For those that sacrificed their lives may HaShem inscribe their names in > the World to Come. > May He also have mercy on the rebellious leadership in government and grant > them the opportunity of heartfelt teshuva . > > * > http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=UkFKUvNFkg4&eurl=http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/3 > > *Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > * > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090127/24b2a6cc/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jan 27 08:14:34 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:14:34 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Fwd: MUST SEE - what Islam is not (PLEASE Distribute)] Message-ID: <497F16CA.1000105@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/0b440bb6/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Hanoch Young Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: MUST SEE - what Islam is not (PLEASE Distribute) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:01:05 -0800 Size: 6669 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/0b440bb6/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jan 27 08:21:16 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:21:16 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Fwd: MUST SEE - what Islam is not (PLEASE Distribute)]] Message-ID: <497F185C.6010102@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/dcaca72e/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Joe Indomenico Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Fwd: MUST SEE - what Islam is not (PLEASE Distribute)] Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:14:34 +1000 Size: 11184 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/dcaca72e/attachment.eml From shdennis at rogers.com Tue Jan 27 08:47:24 2009 From: shdennis at rogers.com (Stephen & Sharon) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:47:24 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Mark of G-d v. mark of beast In-Reply-To: <497F0D7D.3080004@westnet.com.au> References: <497F0D7D.3080004@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1F3297CBE832486792F670BAC7E57D86@Beeblebrox> Thanks for this Joe - more confirmation on what we believe the 'mark' to be. Isn't it amazing how the answers were always there, but could not be discerned while 'drunk on the wine'. Stephen and Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Indomenico To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 9:34 AM Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners WithImplantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip] Shalom Patty, In days gone by I was also intrigued by the conspiracy theories that abounded within Christian circles. I would be a rich man if I received a shilling for every theory that I heard expounded. That is until I left Avodah Zara and started to see the Tanach through Jewish eyes. The book of Revelation is in essence a Jewish mystical essay akin to the Zohar. As I studied the basic elementary precepts of the Jewish sages, the book of Revelation started to unveil some of its hidden mysteries. The mark of the beast is one that I would like to share with you all. First and foremost it must be stated that the book of Revelation is a compilation of many of the prophets in the Tanach. It is, if you will, a mini Tanach with the final outworking and fulfillment of many of the ancient prophecies. Secondly, the supposed author Yochanan (John) was a Jew. This in itself is significant as it should makes us all realize that what Yochanan saw and understood, must as a necessity be filtered through the mindset of a first century Jew. His world was characterized by his understanding of the Tanach of his time. There was no Christian interpolation to be added . As an example, when he saw a future superpower that dominated the world, he did not say Europe, USSR, nor the USA. His reality as prescribed in the Tanach would identify this power only as Gog u Magog. I must stress again, Yochanan was a first century Jew. His world was Jewish and his eschatology was Jewish not dissimilar from the Essenes at Qumran. To try and interpret his visions from a 20th century Christian perspective , I believe is fraught with extreme danger of misinterpretation. I read an English Bible from 1852 once and the commentary clearly stated that the beast power was the Ottoman Empire because of its occupation of the Holy Land. You can see that there is always a tendency to write oneself and his enemy into the Biblical narrative. Now, back to the mark of the beast. Yochanan's reality is from Ezekiel chap 9. ? ???????? ??????? ??????????, ??????? ????? ????????? ?????? ????? ??????, ???, ???????? ????????; ??????????, ???-??????? ????????? ??????????, ?????? ????? ????????, ???????????. {?} 3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon it was, to the threshold of the house; and He called to the man clothed in linen, who had the writer's inkhorn on his side. {P} ? ????????? ??????, ?????, ????? ???????? ??????, ???????? ????????????; ??????????? ???? ???-???????? ???????????, ????????????? ???????????????, ??? ????-????????????, ???????????? ??????????. 4 And the LORD said unto him: 'Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that are done in the midst thereof.' ? ?????????? ????? ??????????, ??????? ?????? ???????? ????????: ??- (???-) ?????? ?????? (????????), ?????-??????????. 5 And to the others He said in my hearing: 'Go ye through the city after him, and smite; let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity; ? ????? ??????? ?????????? ????? ????????? ?????????? ???????????, ?????-????-????? ??????-?????? ?????? ???-??????????, ????????????????, ?????????; ??????????? ???????????? ???????????, ?????? ??????? ????????. 6 slay utterly the old man, the young man and the maiden, and little children and women; but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary.' Then they began at the elders that were before the house. ? ????????? ???????? ???????? ???-????????, ????????? ???-?????????? ????????--?????; ?????????, ???????? ??????. 7 And He said unto them: 'Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain; go ye forth.' And they went forth, and smote in the city. ? ???????, ????????????, ???????????, ?????; ?????????? ???-?????? ?????????, ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????, ??????????? ?????? ??? ????-????????? ??????????, ????????????? ???-???????? ???-????????????. 8 And it came to pass, while they were smiting, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said: 'Ah Lord GOD! wilt Thou destroy all the residue of Israel in Thy pouring out of Thy fury upon Jerusalem?' ? ????????? ?????, ?????? ?????-?????????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ?????, ??????????? ??????? ???????, ???????? ??????? ??????: ???? ???????, ????? ?????? ???-???????, ?????? ??????, ?????. 9 Then said He unto me: 'The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of wresting of judgment; for they say: The LORD hath forsaken the land, and the LORD seeth not. ? ?????-?????--???-?????? ??????, ????? ???????; ?????????, ?????????? ????????. 10 And as for Me also, Mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will bring their way upon their head.' ?? ???????? ??????? ?????? ??????????, ?????? ???????? ???????????, ??????? ??????, ??????: ?????????, ???? (?????? ??????) ???????????. {?} 11 And, behold, the man clothed in linen, who had the inkhorn on his side, reported, saying: 'I have done according to all that Thou hast commanded me.' This episode is highly metaphorical. To suggest that men were walking around with visible marks on their foreheads is really stretching the imagination. So what did Ezekiel and Yochanan actually see and experience? I propose that they perceived through their spiritual eyes. They related what they saw through the mystical holy prophetic language of the Ruach ha Chodesh or Divine inspired breath of HaShem which the book of Revelation calls " The spirit of Prophecy." The message of Yochanan was meant for Jewish consumption of his time and not for 20th century Christian Evangelicals visiting Israel in their air-conditioned tourist buses. The centrality of Jewish life revolves around Deuteronomy 6: ??????, ??????????: ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. 4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. ? ???????????, ??? ?????? ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. ? ??????? ??????????? ????????, ?????? ??????? ????????? ???????--???-????????. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart; ? ?????????????? ?????????, ???????????? ????, ????????????? ?????????? ????????????? ?????????, ?????????????? ???????????. 7 and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. ? ????????????? ??????, ???-??????; ??????? ?????????, ????? ????????. 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they shall be for frontlets between thine eyes. This is the core belief, the raison d'etre of every Jew including Rabbi Yeshua ben Yosef. In the book of Revelation we have the mark of the beast as opposed to the seal of G-d which is His name written upon the foreheads. Again this is metaphorical. To the Jew when he puts on the tefellim , it is a constant reminder that in all your actions ( upon the hand) and in all your thoughts( frontlets between thine eyes) you shall love YUD , HAY, VAV, HAY with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. How? By keeping the mitzvot!!!! To do otherwise is to have the mark of the beast...... the anti Mashiach, or everything that is contrary to the role of Mashiach. What is the role of Mashiach? To gather the dispersed of Yisrael, To fight the wars of HaShem, To bring his Torah and bring about teshuva and teach the hidden Torah, To rebuild the temple. This anti Mashiach is none other than the institutionalized figure-head of a Hellenistic, man made religion J-E-S-U-S. who scattered the children of Yisrael, declared war on the saints of HaShem, did away with the Torah, and destroyed the temple of HaShem. This is the beast who had the head wound and came back to life and the whole world followed in amazement. As an interesting aside, I would like to add that the Rabbis teach that when one puts on tefellim ( phylacteries) on the head , the box containing the Sh'ma has the letter Shin inscribed upon it. The knot that ties it upon the head represents the letter Dalet with the end of the tie representing the letter Yud. So we have Shin, Dalet, Yud which spells " SHADDAI" or the name of HaShem. It is also interesting that in Middle Ages Europe, you had Western Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians. The only other group were the Jews. Roman Catholics when baptizing their babies in the fonts make the sign of the cross ( mark of the beast) upon the foreheads of the babies with holy water. The Greek Orthodox when baptizing their babies make the sign of the cross ( mark of the beast ) upon the right hand of the babies with holy oil. Jews would do neither. It is said in the book of Revelation that who ever did not have the mark of the beast could not buy nor sell. All markets in Europe where held ,even up to today, on a Saturday. This was the main day of commerce. If you were Jewish, one could not partake in buying or selling because of the Shabbat. This has already been fulfilled down throughout the centuries. These conspiracy theories leave a lot to be desired. They fool us into believing all sorts of weird and wonderful cod's wallop and in doing so deny the mitzvot of HaShem which should be the focal point of all G-d fearing people. ? ??????, ??????????: ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. 4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. ? ???????????, ??? ?????? ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. The mystical book of Revelation is replete with many inspiring Jewish prophetic metaphors. HE THAT HAS AN EAR, LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE RUACH IS SAYING. "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book ; if anyone adds to them , G-d shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, G-d shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book." Rev 22 v 18-19. ? ??? ???????, ???-???????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ???????, ????? ?????????, ?????????--????????, ???-???????? ?????? ??????????, ?????? ???????, ???????? ???????. 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the L-RD your G-d which I command you. ( Deuteronomy 4 v 2). Shalom v'Ahavah, JOE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090127/c97dfd65/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jan 27 09:50:20 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:50:20 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners WithImplantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip] In-Reply-To: <497F0D7D.3080004@westnet.com.au> References: <497F0D7D.3080004@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Patty and Joe! Just throwing my two cents worth in........ I find both your views extremely relevant. While Joe is absolutely right concerning the spiritual imagery of Ez 9, compared to that of Rev 13, I believe there is a better-than-good possibility of an implant becoming physical reality in regard to the words of Revelation 13. It's simply a tracking device, previously unavailable to the world's tyrants, providing great potential. Shalom - almost running late for work, but this is such an interesting subject! Pat From: Joe Indomenico Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 8:34 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners WithImplantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip] Shalom Patty, In days gone by I was also intrigued by the conspiracy theories that abounded within Christian circles. I would be a rich man if I received a shilling for every theory that I heard expounded. That is until I left Avodah Zara and started to see the Tanach through Jewish eyes. The book of Revelation is in essence a Jewish mystical essay akin to the Zohar. As I studied the basic elementary precepts of the Jewish sages, the book of Revelation started to unveil some of its hidden mysteries. The mark of the beast is one that I would like to share with you all. First and foremost it must be stated that the book of Revelation is a compilation of many of the prophets in the Tanach. It is, if you will, a mini Tanach with the final outworking and fulfillment of many of the ancient prophecies. Secondly, the supposed author Yochanan (John) was a Jew. This in itself is significant as it should makes us all realize that what Yochanan saw and understood, must as a necessity be filtered through the mindset of a first century Jew. His world was characterized by his understanding of the Tanach of his time. There was no Christian interpolation to be added . As an example, when he saw a future superpower that dominated the world, he did not say Europe, USSR, nor the USA. His reality as prescribed in the Tanach would identify this power only as Gog u Magog. I must stress again, Yochanan was a first century Jew. His world was Jewish and his eschatology was Jewish not dissimilar from the Essenes at Qumran. To try and interpret his visions from a 20th century Christian perspective , I believe is fraught with extreme danger of misinterpretation. I read an English Bible from 1852 once and the commentary clearly stated that the beast power was the Ottoman Empire because of its occupation of the Holy Land. You can see that there is always a tendency to write oneself and his enemy into the Biblical narrative. Now, back to the mark of the beast. Yochanan's reality is from Ezekiel chap 9. ? ???????? ??????? ??????????, ??????? ????? ????????? ?????? ????? ??????, ???, ???????? ????????; ??????????, ???-??????? ????????? ??????????, ?????? ????? ????????, ???????????. {?} 3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon it was, to the threshold of the house; and He called to the man clothed in linen, who had the writer's inkhorn on his side. {P} ? ????????? ??????, ?????, ????? ???????? ??????, ???????? ????????????; ??????????? ???? ???-???????? ???????????, ????????????? ???????????????, ??? ????-????????????, ???????????? ??????????. 4 And the LORD said unto him: 'Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that are done in the midst thereof.' ? ?????????? ????? ??????????, ??????? ?????? ???????? ????????: ??- (???-) ?????? ?????? (????????), ?????-??????????. 5 And to the others He said in my hearing: 'Go ye through the city after him, and smite; let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity; ? ????? ??????? ?????????? ????? ????????? ?????????? ???????????, ?????-????-????? ??????-?????? ?????? ???-??????????, ????????????????, ?????????; ??????????? ???????????? ???????????, ?????? ??????? ????????. 6 slay utterly the old man, the young man and the maiden, and little children and women; but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary.' Then they began at the elders that were before the house. ? ????????? ???????? ???????? ???-????????, ????????? ???-?????????? ????????--?????; ?????????, ???????? ??????. 7 And He said unto them: 'Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain; go ye forth.' And they went forth, and smote in the city. ? ???????, ????????????, ???????????, ?????; ?????????? ???-?????? ?????????, ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????, ??????????? ?????? ??? ????-????????? ??????????, ????????????? ???-???????? ???-????????????. 8 And it came to pass, while they were smiting, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said: 'Ah Lord GOD! wilt Thou destroy all the residue of Israel in Thy pouring out of Thy fury upon Jerusalem?' ? ????????? ?????, ?????? ?????-?????????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ?????, ??????????? ??????? ???????, ???????? ??????? ??????: ???? ???????, ????? ?????? ???-???????, ?????? ??????, ?????. 9 Then said He unto me: 'The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of wresting of judgment; for they say: The LORD hath forsaken the land, and the LORD seeth not. ? ?????-?????--???-?????? ??????, ????? ???????; ?????????, ?????????? ????????. 10 And as for Me also, Mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will bring their way upon their head.' ?? ???????? ??????? ?????? ??????????, ?????? ???????? ???????????, ??????? ??????, ??????: ?????????, ???? (?????? ??????) ???????????. {?} 11 And, behold, the man clothed in linen, who had the inkhorn on his side, reported, saying: 'I have done according to all that Thou hast commanded me.' This episode is highly metaphorical. To suggest that men were walking around with visible marks on their foreheads is really stretching the imagination. So what did Ezekiel and Yochanan actually see and experience? I propose that they perceived through their spiritual eyes. They related what they saw through the mystical holy prophetic language of the Ruach ha Chodesh or Divine inspired breath of HaShem which the book of Revelation calls " The spirit of Prophecy." The message of Yochanan was meant for Jewish consumption of his time and not for 20th century Christian Evangelicals visiting Israel in their air-conditioned tourist buses. The centrality of Jewish life revolves around Deuteronomy 6: ??????, ??????????: ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. 4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. ? ???????????, ??? ?????? ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. ? ??????? ??????????? ????????, ?????? ??????? ????????? ???????--???-????????. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart; ? ?????????????? ?????????, ???????????? ????, ????????????? ?????????? ????????????? ?????????, ?????????????? ???????????. 7 and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. ? ????????????? ??????, ???-??????; ??????? ?????????, ????? ????????. 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they shall be for frontlets between thine eyes. This is the core belief, the raison d'etre of every Jew including Rabbi Yeshua ben Yosef. In the book of Revelation we have the mark of the beast as opposed to the seal of G-d which is His name written upon the foreheads. Again this is metaphorical. To the Jew when he puts on the tefellim , it is a constant reminder that in all your actions ( upon the hand) and in all your thoughts( frontlets between thine eyes) you shall love YUD , HAY, VAV, HAY with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. How? By keeping the mitzvot!!!! To do otherwise is to have the mark of the beast...... the anti Mashiach, or everything that is contrary to the role of Mashiach. What is the role of Mashiach? To gather the dispersed of Yisrael, To fight the wars of HaShem, To bring his Torah and bring about teshuva and teach the hidden Torah, To rebuild the temple. This anti Mashiach is none other than the institutionalized figure-head of a Hellenistic, man made religion J-E-S-U-S. who scattered the children of Yisrael, declared war on the saints of HaShem, did away with the Torah, and destroyed the temple of HaShem. This is the beast who had the head wound and came back to life and the whole world followed in amazement. As an interesting aside, I would like to add that the Rabbis teach that when one puts on tefellim ( phylacteries) on the head , the box containing the Sh'ma has the letter Shin inscribed upon it. The knot that ties it upon the head represents the letter Dalet with the end of the tie representing the letter Yud. So we have Shin, Dalet, Yud which spells " SHADDAI" or the name of HaShem. It is also interesting that in Middle Ages Europe, you had Western Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians. The only other group were the Jews. Roman Catholics when baptizing their babies in the fonts make the sign of the cross ( mark of the beast) upon the foreheads of the babies with holy water. The Greek Orthodox when baptizing their babies make the sign of the cross ( mark of the beast ) upon the right hand of the babies with holy oil. Jews would do neither. It is said in the book of Revelation that who ever did not have the mark of the beast could not buy nor sell. All markets in Europe where held ,even up to today, on a Saturday. This was the main day of commerce. If you were Jewish, one could not partake in buying or selling because of the Shabbat. This has already been fulfilled down throughout the centuries. These conspiracy theories leave a lot to be desired. They fool us into believing all sorts of weird and wonderful cod's wallop and in doing so deny the mitzvot of HaShem which should be the focal point of all G-d fearing people. ? ??????, ??????????: ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. 4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. ? ???????????, ??? ?????? ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. The mystical book of Revelation is replete with many inspiring Jewish prophetic metaphors. HE THAT HAS AN EAR, LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE RUACH IS SAYING. "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book ; if anyone adds to them , G-d shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, G-d shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book." Rev 22 v 18-19. ? ??? ???????, ???-???????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ???????, ????? ?????????, ?????????--????????, ???-???????? ?????? ??????????, ?????? ???????, ???????? ???????. 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the L-RD your G-d which I command you. ( Deuteronomy 4 v 2). Shalom v'Ahavah, JOE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090127/4f9d6dfc/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 10:38:26 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:38:26 -0800 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip] In-Reply-To: <497F0D7D.3080004@westnet.com.au> References: <497F0D7D.3080004@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <855590370901270838h1471f4f8o7368eb5c75f43d14@mail.gmail.com> Shalom Joe, Another fascinating post, thanks - I not only enjoyed it, but as usual, learned quite a lot from it. I have recently begun re-reading the Book of Revelation, and have found it to be a wild, roller-coaster type ride. But there ARE countless people who believe it LITERALLY, which has been very hard for me to grasp (obviously, not having grown up in that culture, and not viewing it as a 'religious document'). In fact, friends of mine (not from the Dialogue List) have discouraged me from moving to Israel over the next number of months. Why? Well, they figured that with the upcoming "tribulation," that since I would not likely take the "mark of the Beast" that they were afraid I'd be killed...... Needless to say, I think your explanation makes total sense to me. One thing though, that "Synagogue of Satan" line....I think I was a member there once, hard to remember now though... LOL :-) Luv ya Mate! * Hanoch * 2009/1/27 Joe Indomenico > *Shalom Patty, > > In days gone by I was also intrigued by the conspiracy theories that > abounded within Christian circles. > I would be a rich man if I received a shilling for every theory that I > heard expounded. That is until I left Avodah Zara and started to see the > Tanach through Jewish eyes. The book of Revelation is in essence a Jewish > mystical essay akin to the Zohar. As I studied the basic elementary precepts > of the Jewish sages, the book of Revelation started to unveil some of its > hidden mysteries. The mark of the beast is one that I would like to share > with you all. > > First and foremost it must be stated that the book of Revelation is a > compilation of many of the prophets in the Tanach. It is, if you will, a > mini Tanach with the final outworking and fulfillment of many of the ancient > prophecies. > Secondly, the supposed author Yochanan (John) was a Jew. > This in itself is significant as it should makes us all realize that what > Yochanan saw and understood, must as a necessity be filtered through the > mindset of a first century Jew. His world was characterized by his > understanding of the Tanach of his time. There was no Christian > interpolation to be added . > As an example, when he saw a future superpower that dominated the world, he > did not say Europe, USSR, nor the USA. > His reality as prescribed in the Tanach would identify this power only as > Gog u Magog. > I must stress again, Yochanan was a first century Jew. His world was Jewish > and his eschatology was Jewish not dissimilar from the Essenes at Qumran. To > try and interpret his visions from a 20th century Christian perspective , I > believe is fraught with extreme danger of misinterpretation. I read an > English Bible from 1852 once and the commentary clearly stated that the > beast power was the Ottoman Empire because of its occupation of the Holy > Land. You can see that there is always a tendency to write oneself and his > enemy into the Biblical narrative. > > Now, back to the mark of the beast. Yochanan's reality is from Ezekiel chap > 9. > > * *?* ???????? ??????? ??????????, ??????? ????? ????????? ?????? ????? > ??????, ???, ???????? ????????; ??????????, ???-??????? ????????? > ??????????, ?????? ????? ????????, ???????????. {?} *3* And the glory of > the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon it was, to the > threshold of the house; and He called to the man clothed in linen, who had > the writer's inkhorn on his side. *{P}* *?* ????????? ??????, ?????, > ????? ???????? ??????, ???????? ????????????; ??????????? ???? ???-???????? > ???????????, ????????????? ???????????????, ??? ????-????????????, > ???????????? ??????????. *4* And the LORD said unto him: 'Go through the > midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, *and set a mark upon > the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations > that are done in the midst thereof.'* *?* ?????????? ????? ??????????, > ??????? ?????? ???????? ????????: ??- (???-) ?????? ?????? (????????), > ?????-??????????. *5* And to the others He said in my hearing: 'Go ye > through the city after him, and smite; let not your eye spare, neither have > ye pity; *?* ????? ??????? ?????????? ????? ????????? ?????????? > ???????????, ?????-????-????? ??????-?????? ?????? ???-??????????, > ????????????????, ?????????; ??????????? ???????????? ???????????, ?????? > ??????? ????????. *6* slay utterly the old man, the young man and the > maiden, and little children and women;* but come not near any man upon > whom is the mark; *and begin at My sanctuary.' Then they began at the > elders that were before the house. *?* ????????? ???????? ???????? > ???-????????, ????????? ???-?????????? ????????--?????; ?????????, ???????? > ??????. *7* And He said unto them: 'Defile the house, and fill the courts > with the slain; go ye forth.' And they went forth, and smote in the city. > *?* ???????, ????????????, ???????????, ?????; ?????????? ???-?????? > ?????????, ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????, ??????????? ?????? ??? > ????-????????? ??????????, ????????????? ???-???????? ???-????????????. *8 > * And it came to pass, while they were smiting, and I was left, that I > fell upon my face, and cried, and said: 'Ah Lord GOD! wilt Thou destroy all > the residue of Israel in Thy pouring out of Thy fury upon Jerusalem?' *?* ????????? > ?????, ?????? ?????-?????????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ?????, ??????????? > ??????? ???????, ???????? ??????? ??????: ???? ???????, ????? ?????? > ???-???????, ?????? ??????, ?????. *9* Then said He unto me: 'The iniquity > of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of > blood, and the city full of wresting of judgment; for they say: The LORD > hath forsaken the land, and the LORD seeth not. *?* ?????-?????--???-?????? > ??????, ????? ???????; ?????????, ?????????? ????????. *10* And as for Me > also, Mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will bring > their way upon their head.' *??* ???????? ??????? ?????? ??????????, > ?????? ???????? ???????????, ??????? ??????, ??????: ?????????, ???? > (?????? ??????) ???????????. {?} *11* And, behold, the man clothed in > linen, who had the inkhorn on his side, reported, saying: 'I have done > according to all that Thou hast commanded me.' > *This episode is highly metaphorical. To suggest that men were walking > around with visible marks on their foreheads is really stretching the > imagination. > So what did Ezekiel and Yochanan actually see and experience? I propose > that they perceived through their spiritual eyes. They related what they > saw through the mystical holy prophetic language of the Ruach ha Chodesh or > Divine inspired breath of HaShem which the book of Revelation calls " The > spirit of Prophecy." > The message of Yochanan was meant for Jewish consumption of his time and > not for 20th century Christian Evangelicals visiting Israel in their > air-conditioned tourist buses. > > The centrality of Jewish life revolves around Deuteronomy 6: > > * ??????, ??????????: ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. *4* Hear, O > Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. *?* ???????????, ??? ?????? > ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. *5* And > thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, > and with all thy might. *?* ??????? ??????????? ????????, ?????? ??????? > ????????? ???????--???-????????. *6* And these words, which I command thee > this day, shall be upon thy heart; *?* ?????????????? ?????????, > ???????????? ????, ????????????? ?????????? ????????????? ?????????, > ?????????????? ???????????. *7* and thou shalt teach them diligently unto > thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and > when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest > up. *?* ????????????? ??????, ???-??????; ??????? ?????????, ????? > ????????. *8* *And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they > shall be for frontlets between thine eyes. > > **This is the core belief, the raison d'etre of every Jew including Rabbi > Yeshua ben Yosef. > In the book of Revelation we have the mark of the beast as opposed to the > seal of G-d which is His name written upon the foreheads. Again this is > metaphorical. > To the Jew when he puts on the tefellim , it is a constant reminder that in > all your actions ( upon the hand) and in all your thoughts( frontlets > between thine eyes) you shall love YUD , HAY, VAV, HAY with all thy heart, > and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. > How? > By keeping the mitzvot!!!! > To do otherwise is to have the mark of the beast...... the anti Mashiach, > or everything that is contrary to the role of Mashiach. > What is the role of Mashiach? > To gather the dispersed of Yisrael, > To fight the wars of HaShem, > To bring his Torah and bring about teshuva and teach the hidden Torah, > To rebuild the temple. > This anti Mashiach is none other than the institutionalized figure-head of > a Hellenistic, man made religion J-E-S-U-S. > who scattered the children of Yisrael, > declared war on the saints of HaShem, > did away with the Torah, > and destroyed the temple of HaShem. > This is the beast who had the head wound and came back to life and the > whole world followed in amazement. > > As an interesting aside, I would like to add that the Rabbis teach that > when one puts on tefellim ( phylacteries) on the head , the box containing > the Sh'ma has the letter Shin inscribed upon it. The knot that ties it upon > the head represents the letter Dalet with the end of the tie representing > the letter Yud. So we have Shin, Dalet, Yud which spells " SHADDAI" or the > name of HaShem. > > It is also interesting that in Middle Ages Europe, you had Western Roman > Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians. The only other group were the > Jews. > Roman Catholics when baptizing their babies in the fonts make the sign of > the cross ( mark of the beast) upon the foreheads of the babies with holy > water. > The Greek Orthodox when baptizing their babies make the sign of the cross ( > mark of the beast ) upon the right hand of the babies with holy oil. > Jews would do neither. > It is said in the book of Revelation that who ever did not have the mark of > the beast could not buy nor sell. > All markets in Europe where held ,even up to today, on a Saturday. This was > the main day of commerce. > If you were Jewish, one could not partake in buying or selling because of > the Shabbat. > > This has already been fulfilled down throughout the centuries. > > These conspiracy theories leave a lot to be desired. > They fool us into believing all sorts of weird and wonderful cod's wallop > and in doing so deny the mitzvot of HaShem which should be the focal point > of all G-d fearing people. > > * *? ??????, ??????????: ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. * *4 Hear, O > Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. * *? ???????????, ??? ?????? > ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. * *5 And > thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, > and with all thy might. * > *The mystical book of Revelation is replete with many inspiring Jewish > prophetic metaphors. > HE THAT HAS AN EAR, LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE RUACH IS SAYING. > > "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book ; > if anyone adds to them , G-d shall add to him the plagues which are written > in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this > prophecy, G-d shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the > holy city, which are written in this book." Rev 22 v 18-19. > > **?* ??? ???????, ???-???????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ???????, ????? > ?????????, ?????????--????????, ???-???????? ?????? ??????????,* ?????? > ???????, ???????? ???????. 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I > command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the > commandments of the L-RD your G-d which I command you. ( Deuteronomy 4 v 2). > > Shalom v'Ahavah, > JOE > ** > > * > > Hey there Pat, how are you doing? Without sounding like a Conspiracy > Theorist, I think it is creepy. > > > > Patty > > > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *Patricia Robbins > *Sent:* Monday, January 26, 2009 10:13 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID > ChipMakerVeriChip > > > > Wow, Patty, this is interesting! If I'm understanding correctly, the > "implantable chip" could possibly be akin to the mark in the forehead or > right hand of Revelation 13:16. The article below presents the chip idea as > quite a useful thing to have in order to monitor one's own health. Sounds > like such a great idea, not to mention a great way to get people used to > walking around with a chip embedded in their body. Thank you for passing > this on. ~ Pat > > > > > > > > *From:* carlson_john at bellsouth.net > > *Sent:* Monday, January 26, 2009 6:38 PM > > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > > *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID > ChipMakerVeriChip > > > > "Protected" huh? > > > > Just like credit card account files? > > > > -- > John C. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > > -------------- Original message from "Patty " : > -------------- > > *Integration Story: Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID Chip Maker > VeriChip* > > *By Beth Bacheldor, RFID Journal, Inc.* > > Microsoft plans to make VeriChip's VeriMed Health Link system accessible > through Microsoft's HealthVault platform, a secure, online repository that > consumers can use for free to manage their health records. The VeriMed > Health Link system includes implantable passive RFID tags used for human > patient identification and medical records tracking, as well as a hosted > database for storing electronic medical records. According to Sean Nolan, > the chief architect for HealthVault, VeriChip is the first RFID company to > partner with Microsoft on the online platform. > > "We created the HealthVault platform to help jump-start innovation around > health care," Nolan says. "Our belief was that if we did the hard plumbing > work to make it easy for individuals to collect and share their health > information, forward-looking companies would seize on the opportunity to > provide new solutions to difficult health-care challenges. VeriChip's > decision to integrate the VeriMed product with HealthVault is clear evidence > that the market is responding." > > Unveiled in 2007, HealthVault lets consumers set up their own private > health-record repository so they can manage their health and wellness > information online. To protect this personal data, the information is > encrypted and users can also set up personal privacy controls, including a > password, and determine which information is stored in the account, as well > as who can access it (see Microsoft Seeks RFID Support for HealthVault). > > *Used with permission from RFID Journal, Inc. > * * > http://www.rfidsolutionsonline.com/download.mvc/Microsoft-Partners-With-Implantable-RFID-Chip-0001 > * > > * * > > > > Bottom of Form > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090127/488a13b1/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 12:12:09 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:12:09 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Emuna - faith in G-d (from Rav Lazer Brody) Message-ID: <855590370901271012w5747c41am7f6f0806b37c8c5b@mail.gmail.com> Ceasefire: Time for the Emuna Arsenal and Shema Yisrael After three weeks of daily missile attacks, Monday was the first day of quiet here in Ashdod. G-d willing, schools will reopen today, as the city - like the rest of Israel's south - gradually returns to normal. Meanwhile, Hamas vows to rearm. Iran is happy to accomodate them. Many analysts, including Israeli political leaders themselves, feel that this temporary lull will end in more rocket attacks when Hamas replenishes its losses and reactivates its weapons-smuggling system. One may think I'm naive, but this is not necessarily so. Renewed hostilities don't depend on Iran or Hamas - it depends on us. The current lull in the fighting is Hashem's way of giving us another chance to make teshuva. Hashem doesn't expect people to make a massive revolution in their lives; all He expects is that they learn about emuna, say *Kriat Shema * (reciting the Shema Yisrael prayer) with their children at night, and try to be a little bit better than they were yesterday. Why Kriat Shema? If one million more Jewish children learn how to say Kriat Shema, then Hamas and Hizbolla will be neutralized without our having to fire a shot. This is the arms race - we must teach every Jewish child to say Kriat Shema before Hamas rearms or before Iran becomes nuclear. See the following one-minute clip, "The Answer to Terror and Islamofascism," by Emuna Outreach: Emuna Outreach and the Beams want to express our sincerest appreciation to Disney illustrator "Baruch" Ken Becker, who is always there to help us fight the spiritual battles. Baruch designed our cute little "Shema Yisrael" boy, who we've nicknamed "Srulick Shema". "Srulick" is now a 4"x4" magnet that's being sent with every new Emuna Outreach order and contribution. Here he is, and you're welcome to print him out and post him by your child's bed or on the children's bedroom wall: [image: 1800Shemafinal] *Click on the above image to get a full-size image suitable to print out on your computer.* Email your not-yet-observant friends and family, and promise them limitless blessings for themselves and their children by just saying one sentence before bedtime. Rashi tells us in his commentary on the Torah that even if a person has no other mitzva than reciting the Shema Yisrael prayer, Hashem will save him from danger: Shema Yisrael, Adonoi Elohenu, Adonoi Echad Hear O Israel, The Lord is our God, The Lord is One! The more ambitious can find the entire Shema in Hebrew, English and transliteration here . This is an unbelievably cogent contribution to Israel's security and to overcoming our enemies. By virtue of the "Shema", we'll see limitless blessings both individual and collective, amen. Tuesday, 20 January 2009 at 12:01 AM in Children and education, Concepts in Judaism , Faith and Spirituality, Israel News , Video Torah | Permalink | TrackBack (0) ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090127/7b1c5e52/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Tue Jan 27 12:53:16 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:53:16 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID Chip Maker VeriChip In-Reply-To: <497F0D7D.3080004@westnet.com.au> References: <497F0D7D.3080004@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <040401c980b0$8544fc60$8fcef520$@com> Shalom Joe and All, Thank you so much for your very informative response. Here are my current thoughts, and please note that I am open to correction. First of all, and I think you may have overlooked this, I never said that I thought this was the ?mark of the beast? ? another reader made that connection. Secondly, whether this is THE Beast, A Beast or a ?friendly critter? J - how much control do we want government to have? Our healthcare system is on its way to becoming totally digitized; small and private farmers are currently fighting against (NAIS) National Animal Identification System to maintain their freedoms in the industry. The tattoos on the holocaust victims could be viewed as a sort of literal ?mark? of a beast ? to them Hitler was certainly THE Beast. As to the prophecy in Revelation 13: [16] And he caused all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: [17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. [18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. This can be interpreted on several levels. The instance mentioned in my first paragraph could be an example of the P?shat, or literal interpretation. A more mystical or hidden interpretation might be to contrast this ?mark? with the Sign of YHWH, which is also on the hand and forehead: Exod.31 [13] Speak also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am YHWH that sanctifies you. Deut.6 [8] And you shall bind them (the commandments, statutes, and judgments) for a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. Deut.11 [18] Therefore shall you lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. Ezek.20 [12] Moreover also I gave them my Sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am YHWH that sanctifies them. [20] And hallow my Sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that you may know that I am YHWH your Elohim. As to your reference to the ?mark? in Ezekiel 9: [4] And YHWH said to him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. [6] Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. This is similar to the Seal in Rev. 7 but appears to be DIFFERENT than the Sign of YHWH in that it is situational ? like the ?mark? set upon Cain to protect him from being slain: Rev.7 [1] And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. [2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, [3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. [4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. [5] Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. [6] Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. [7] Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8] Of the tribe of Zebulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. You stated: ?Secondly, the supposed author Yochanan (John) was a Jew. This in itself is significant as it should makes us all realize that what Yochanan saw and understood, must as a necessity be filtered through the mindset of a first century Jew. His world was characterized by his understanding of the Tanach of his time. There was no Christian interpolation to be added. As an example, when he saw a future superpower that dominated the world, he did not say Europe, USSR, nor the USA.? I would like to offer the idea that John was speaking to the ?Lost Sheep of the House of Israel? that were scattered throughout Asia and beyond, and not to the Jews living in the Land at that time: Rev.1 [4] John to the seven assemblies which are in Asia?.[11] ?What you see, write in a book, and send it unto the seven assemblies which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. While you are correct in that many interpretations come and go and that people tend to ?write? themselves into these prophesies, I would like to suggest that perhaps some of these prophesies are multi-fold, or may not happen for many more years. On the other hand, consider how long, before 1948, Israel was ?spiritualized away? in the prophesies, and behold ? the literal is here. As to Conspiracy Theories ? I liken them to the story of The Boy who Cried Wolf ? 99.999% of them are false, but one day, they will get it right ? and no one will believe them. Great Discussion!! Patty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090127/9fd9fd6e/attachment.html From tposborne77 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 27 18:24:54 2009 From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com (Tracy Osborne) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:24:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip] References: <497F0D7D.3080004@westnet.com.au> <855590370901270838h1471f4f8o7368eb5c75f43d14@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <62464.23020.qm@web51104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hey Hanoch, I'm LOL...I was a member there once also, except it was called a church. I have heard it argued that this was one of those Herodian or Boethusian Synagogues. These might be of interest on this subject by and Orthodox Nazarean Rabbi. www.betemunah.org/revelation1.html www.betemunah.org/revelation4.html www.betemunah.org/revelation5.html Great posts Joe and Patty! Still LOL, Tracy ________________________________ From: Hanoch Young To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:38:26 AM Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip] Shalom Joe, ???? Another fascinating post, thanks - I not only enjoyed it, but as usual, learned quite a lot from it.? I have recently begun re-reading the Book of Revelation, and have found it to be a wild, roller-coaster type ride. ????? But there ARE countless people who believe it LITERALLY, which has been very hard for me to grasp (obviously, not having grown up in that culture, and not viewing it as a 'religious document').? In fact, friends of mine (not from the Dialogue List) have discouraged me from moving to Israel over the next number of months.? Why?? Well, they figured that with the upcoming "tribulation," that since I would not likely take the "mark of the Beast" that they were afraid I'd be killed...... ???? Needless to say, I think your explanation makes total sense to me.? One thing though, that "Synagogue of Satan" line....I think I was a member there once, hard to remember now though...? LOL? :-) ???? Luv ya Mate! ?????????? Hanoch 2009/1/27 Joe Indomenico Shalom Patty, In days gone by I was also intrigued by the conspiracy theories that abounded within Christian circles. I would be a rich man if I received a shilling for every theory that I heard expounded. That is until I left Avodah Zara and started to see the Tanach through Jewish eyes. The book of Revelation is in essence a Jewish mystical essay akin to the Zohar. As I studied the basic elementary precepts of the Jewish sages, the book of Revelation started to unveil some of its hidden mysteries. The mark of the beast is one that I would like to share with you all. First and foremost it must be stated that the book of Revelation is a compilation of many of the prophets in the Tanach. It is, if you will, a mini Tanach with the final outworking and fulfillment of many of the ancient prophecies. Secondly, the supposed author Yochanan (John) was a Jew. This in itself is significant as it should makes us all realize that what Yochanan saw and understood, must as a necessity be filtered through the mindset of a first century Jew. His world was characterized by his understanding of the Tanach of his time. There was no Christian interpolation to be added . As an example, when he saw a future superpower that dominated the world, he did not say Europe, USSR, nor the USA. His reality as prescribed in the Tanach would identify this power only as Gog u Magog. I must stress again, Yochanan was a first century Jew. His world was Jewish and his eschatology was Jewish not dissimilar from the Essenes at Qumran. To try and interpret his visions from a 20th century Christian perspective , I believe is fraught with extreme? danger of misinterpretation. I read an English Bible from 1852 once and the commentary clearly stated that the beast power was the Ottoman Empire because of its occupation of the Holy Land. You can see that there is always a tendency to write oneself and his enemy into the Biblical narrative. Now, back to the mark of the beast. Yochanan's reality is from Ezekiel chap 9. ??????????? ??????? ??????????, ??????? ????? ????????? ?????? ????? ??????, ???, ???????? ????????; ??????????, ???-??????? ????????? ??????????, ?????? ????? ????????, ???????????.? {?} 3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon it was, to the threshold of the house; and He called to the man clothed in linen, who had the writer's inkhorn on his side. {P} ???????????? ??????, ?????, ????? ???????? ??????, ???????? ????????????; ??????????? ???? ???-???????? ???????????, ????????????? ???????????????, ??? ????-????????????, ???????????? ??????????. 4 And the LORD said unto him: 'Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that are done in the midst thereof.' ????????????? ????? ??????????, ??????? ?????? ???????? ????????:? ??- (???-) ?????? ?????? (????????), ?????-??????????. 5 And to the others He said in my hearing: 'Go ye through the city after him, and smite; let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity; ???????? ??????? ?????????? ????? ????????? ?????????? ???????????, ?????-????-????? ??????-?????? ?????? ???-??????????, ????????????????, ?????????; ??????????? ???????????? ???????????, ?????? ??????? ????????. 6 slay utterly the old man, the young man and the maiden, and little children and women;but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary.' Then they began at the elders that were before the house. ???????????? ???????? ???????? ???-????????, ????????? ???-?????????? ????????--?????; ?????????, ???????? ??????. 7 And He said unto them: 'Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain; go ye forth.' And they went forth, and smote in the city. ??????????, ????????????, ???????????, ?????; ?????????? ???-?????? ?????????, ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????, ??????????? ?????? ??? ????-????????? ??????????, ????????????? ???-???????? ???-????????????. 8 And it came to pass, while they were smiting, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said: 'Ah Lord GOD! wilt Thou destroy all the residue of Israel in Thy pouring out of Thy fury upon Jerusalem?' ???????????? ?????, ?????? ?????-?????????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ?????, ??????????? ??????? ???????, ???????? ??????? ??????:? ???? ???????, ????? ?????? ???-???????, ?????? ??????, ?????. 9 Then said He unto me: 'The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of wresting of judgment; for they say: The LORD hath forsaken the land, and the LORD seeth not. ????????-?????--???-?????? ??????, ????? ???????; ?????????, ?????????? ????????. 10 And as for Me also, Mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will bring their way upon their head.' ???????????? ??????? ?????? ??????????, ?????? ???????? ???????????, ??????? ??????, ??????:? ?????????, ???? (?????? ??????) ???????????.? {?} 11 And, behold, the man clothed in linen, who had the inkhorn on his side, reported, saying: 'I have done according to all that Thou hast commanded me.' This episode is highly metaphorical. To suggest that men were walking around with visible marks on their foreheads is really stretching the imagination. So what did Ezekiel and Yochanan actually see and experience? I propose that they perceived through their spiritual eyes. They related what they saw through the mystical holy prophetic language of the Ruach ha Chodesh or Divine inspired breath of HaShem which the book of Revelation calls " The spirit of Prophecy." The message of Yochanan was meant for Jewish consumption of his time and not for 20th century Christian Evangelicals visiting Israel in their air-conditioned tourist buses. The centrality of Jewish life revolves around Deuteronomy 6: ????????, ??????????:? ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. 4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. ??????????????, ??? ?????? ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. ?????????? ??????????? ????????, ?????? ??????? ????????? ???????--???-????????. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart; ????????????????? ?????????, ???????????? ????, ????????????? ?????????? ????????????? ?????????, ?????????????? ???????????. 7 and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. ???????????????? ??????, ???-??????; ??????? ?????????, ????? ????????. 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they shall be for frontlets between thine eyes. This is the core belief, the raison d'etre of every Jew including Rabbi Yeshua ben Yosef. In the book of Revelation we have the mark of the beast as opposed to the seal of G-d which is His name written upon the foreheads. Again this is metaphorical. To the Jew when he puts on the tefellim , it is a constant reminder that in all your actions ( upon the hand) and in all your thoughts( frontlets between thine eyes) you shall love YUD , HAY, VAV, HAY with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. How? By keeping the mitzvot!!!! To do otherwise is to have the mark of the beast...... the anti Mashiach, or everything that is contrary to the role of Mashiach. What is the role of Mashiach? To gather the dispersed of Yisrael, To fight the wars of HaShem, To bring his Torah and bring about teshuva and teach the hidden Torah, To rebuild the temple. This anti Mashiach is none other than the institutionalized figure-head of a Hellenistic, man made religion J-E-S-U-S. who scattered the children of Yisrael, declared war on the saints of HaShem, did away with the Torah, and destroyed the temple of HaShem. This is the beast who had the head wound and came back to life and the whole world followed in amazement. As an interesting aside, I would like to add that the Rabbis teach that when one puts on tefellim ( phylacteries) on the head , the box containing the Sh'ma has the letter Shin inscribed upon it. The knot that ties it upon the head represents the letter Dalet with the end of the tie representing the letter Yud. So we have Shin, Dalet, Yud which spells " SHADDAI" or the name of HaShem. It is also interesting that in Middle Ages Europe, you had Western Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians. The only other group were the Jews. Roman Catholics when baptizing their babies in the fonts make the sign of the cross ( mark of the beast) upon the foreheads of the babies with holy water. The Greek Orthodox when baptizing their babies make the sign of the cross ( mark of the beast ) upon the right hand of the babies with holy oil. Jews would do neither. It is said in the book of Revelation that who ever did not have the mark of the beast could not buy nor sell. All markets in Europe where held ,even up to today, on a Saturday. This was the main day of commerce. If you were Jewish, one could not partake in buying or selling because of the Shabbat. This has already been fulfilled down throughout the centuries. These conspiracy theories leave a lot to be desired. They fool us into believing all sorts of weird and wonderful cod's wallop and in doing so deny the mitzvot of HaShem which should be the focal point of all G-d fearing people. ?????????, ??????????:? ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. 4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. ??????????????, ??? ?????? ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. The mystical book of Revelation is replete with many inspiring Jewish prophetic metaphors. HE THAT HAS AN EAR, LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE RUACH IS SAYING. "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book ; if anyone adds to them , G-d shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, G-d shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book." Rev 22 v 18-19. ?????? ???????, ???-???????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ???????, ????? ?????????, ?????????--????????, ???-???????? ?????? ??????????,?????? ???????, ???????? ???????. 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the L-RD your G-d which I command you. ( Deuteronomy 4 v 2). Shalom v'Ahavah, JOE Hey there Pat, how are you doing? Without sounding like a Conspiracy Theorist, I think it is creepy. ? Patty ? From:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Patricia Robbins Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 10:13 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip ? Wow, Patty, this is interesting!? If I'm understanding correctly, the "implantable chip"?could?possibly be akin to?the mark in the forehead or right hand of Revelation 13:16.??The?article below presents?the chip idea as quite a useful thing to have in order to monitor one's own health.? Sounds like such a great idea, not to mention a great way to get people used to walking around with a chip embedded in their body.? Thank you for passing this on.????? ~ Pat ? ? ? From:carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent:Monday, January 26, 2009 6:38 PM To:dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject:Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip ? "Protected" huh? ? Just like credit card account files? ? -- John C. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ? -------------- Original message from "Patty " : -------------- Integration Story: Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID Chip Maker VeriChip By Beth Bacheldor, RFID Journal, Inc. Microsoft plans to make VeriChip's VeriMed Health Link system accessible through Microsoft's HealthVault platform, a secure, online repository that consumers can use for free to manage their health records. The VeriMed Health Link system includes implantable passive RFID tags used for human patient identification and medical records tracking, as well as a hosted database for storing electronic medical records. According to Sean Nolan, the chief architect for HealthVault, VeriChip is the first RFID company to partner with Microsoft on the online platform. "We created the HealthVault platform to help jump-start innovation around health care," Nolan says. "Our belief was that if we did the hard plumbing work to make it easy for individuals to collect and share their health information, forward-looking companies would seize on the opportunity to provide new solutions to difficult health-care challenges. VeriChip's decision to integrate the VeriMed product with HealthVault is clear evidence that the market is responding." Unveiled in 2007, HealthVault lets consumers set up their own private health-record repository so they can manage their health and wellness information online. To protect this personal data, the information is encrypted and users can also set up personal privacy controls, including a password, and determine which information is stored in the account, as well as who can access it (see Microsoft Seeks RFID Support for HealthVault). Used with permission from RFID Journal, Inc.http://www.rfidsolutionsonline.com/download.mvc/Microsoft-Partners-With-Implantable-RFID-Chip-0001 ? ? Bottom of Form ? ________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090127/01f59e41/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 27 20:40:24 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:40:24 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID Chip MakerVeriChip In-Reply-To: <040401c980b0$8544fc60$8fcef520$@com> References: <497F0D7D.3080004@westnet.com.au> <040401c980b0$8544fc60$8fcef520$@com> Message-ID: <012820090240.8193.497FC5960002397C0000200122218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Well Patty, I'm no fan of conspiracy theories but I am very suspicious of any program designed to centralize personal information. The whole idea of one world order along with it's attendant sub-projects, the Euro and the proposed Amero, while unbelievable a decade or so ago have now shown themselves to be real issues. The whole idea behind these concepts is that the world economy would be much easier to control if we all dealt with each other under the same rules. In principle this is not in itself an evil idea, what makes it worrisome is when you consider who will decide what the rules are and what their motivations are. I find it very troublesome that the US economy (and that of the rest of the world to follow) collapsed shortly before the Bush administration exited. In other worlds, who is pulling the strings? So, anything that seeks to entice us to centralize our personal information, such as medical information, which is used extensively by insurance companies (which were the first to be be bailed out without question by the way), is suspect to me. Yes it would be convenient to put our personal info somewhere that doctors could easily find it, but at what risk? The track record for centralized, personal, electronic info is not good so far. If freelance hackers can find ways into credit card systems, what could more authoritative, well-backed administrations do? There are already several databases that are keeping track of much or our personal lives, I see no need to facilitate that any further. Google is about to announce a new information storage platform called G-Drive which is being touted as the replacement for the personal hard drives on our computers. They assure us that security is tantamount. So just imagine a few years from now when the headlines read that someone (who knows who) has accessed G-Drive and spirited away terabytes of personal info on millions of innocent people (financial info, emails, web access records, personal mail, you name it). So for me, the issue of the "mark" is secondary. It will simply be the identifier used after all of our personal information has been appropriated. It's a bad idea. I say stay far, far away from it. The descriptions in Revelations to me simply form a picture of the world that will exist when Messiah comes. These descriptions are not in themselves prophetic in the sense that they clearly show who will be saved and who will not, but they should make us suspicious of what we should stay away from in the days to come. They are warnings. My two cents. -- John C. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Patty " : -------------- Shalom Joe and All, Thank you so much for your very informative response. Here are my current thoughts, and please note that I am open to correction. First of all, and I think you may have overlooked this, I never said that I thought this was the ?mark of the beast? ? another reader made that connection. Secondly, whether this is THE Beast, A Beast or a ?friendly critter? J - how much control do we want government to have? Our healthcare system is on its way to becoming totally digitized; small and private farmers are currently fighting against (NAIS) National Animal Identification System to maintain their freedoms in the industry. The tattoos on the holocaust victims could be viewed as a sort of literal ?mark? of a beast ? to them Hitler was certainly THE Beast. As to the prophecy in Revelation 13: [16] And he caused all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: [17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. [18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. This can be interpreted on several levels. The instance mentioned in my first paragraph could be an example of the P?shat, or literal interpretation. A more mystical or hidden interpretation might be to contrast this ?mark? with the Sign of YHWH, which is also on the hand and forehead: Exod.31 [13] Speak also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am YHWH that sanctifies you. Deut.6 [8] And you shall bind them (the commandments, statutes, and judgments) for a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. Deut.11 [18] Therefore shall you lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. Ezek.20 [12] Moreover also I gave them my Sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am YHWH that sanctifies them. [20] And hallow my Sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that you may know that I am YHWH your Elohim. As to your reference to the ?mark? in Ezekiel 9: [4] And YHWH said to him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. [6] Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. This is similar to the Seal in Rev. 7 but appears to be DIFFERENT than the Sign of YHWH in that it is situational ? like the ?mark? set upon Cain to protect him from being slain: Rev.7 [1] And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. [2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, [3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. [4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. [5] Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. [6] Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. [7] Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8] Of the tribe of Zebulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. You stated: ?Secondly, the supposed author Yochanan (John) was a Jew. This in itself is significant as it should makes us all realize that what Yochanan saw and understood, must as a necessity be filtered through the mindset of a first century Jew. His world was characterized by his understanding of the Tanach of his time. There was no Christian interpolation to be added. As an example, when he saw a future superpower that dominated the world, he did not say Europe, USSR, nor the USA.? I would like to offer the idea that John was speaking to the ?Lost Sheep of the House of Israel? that were scattered throughout Asia and beyond, and not to the Jews living in the Land at that time: Rev.1 [4] John to the seven assemblies which are in Asia?.[11] ?What you see, write in a book, and send it unto the seven assemblies which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. While you are correct in that many interpretations come and go and that people tend to ?write? themselves into these prophesies, I would like to suggest that perhaps some of these prophesies are multi-fold, or may not happen for many more years. On the other hand, consider how long, before 1948, Israel was ?spiritualized away? in the prophesies, and behold ? the literal is here. As to Conspiracy Theories ? I liken them to the story of The Boy who Cried Wolf ? 99.999% of them are false, but one day, they will get it right ? and no one will believe them. Great Discussion!! Patty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/4dc61742/attachment.html From shdennis at rogers.com Tue Jan 27 20:59:47 2009 From: shdennis at rogers.com (Stephen & Sharon) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:59:47 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners WithImplantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip] References: <497F0D7D.3080004@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <008301c980f4$7b244580$64012b0a@toshiba> Hey Joe, A good summation of what the true 'mark' of the beast is. Shalom Stephen ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Indomenico To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 9:34 AM Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners WithImplantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip] Shalom Patty, In days gone by I was also intrigued by the conspiracy theories that abounded within Christian circles. I would be a rich man if I received a shilling for every theory that I heard expounded. That is until I left Avodah Zara and started to see the Tanach through Jewish eyes. The book of Revelation is in essence a Jewish mystical essay akin to the Zohar. As I studied the basic elementary precepts of the Jewish sages, the book of Revelation started to unveil some of its hidden mysteries. The mark of the beast is one that I would like to share with you all. First and foremost it must be stated that the book of Revelation is a compilation of many of the prophets in the Tanach. It is, if you will, a mini Tanach with the final outworking and fulfillment of many of the ancient prophecies. Secondly, the supposed author Yochanan (John) was a Jew. This in itself is significant as it should makes us all realize that what Yochanan saw and understood, must as a necessity be filtered through the mindset of a first century Jew. His world was characterized by his understanding of the Tanach of his time. There was no Christian interpolation to be added . As an example, when he saw a future superpower that dominated the world, he did not say Europe, USSR, nor the USA. His reality as prescribed in the Tanach would identify this power only as Gog u Magog. I must stress again, Yochanan was a first century Jew. His world was Jewish and his eschatology was Jewish not dissimilar from the Essenes at Qumran. To try and interpret his visions from a 20th century Christian perspective , I believe is fraught with extreme danger of misinterpretation. I read an English Bible from 1852 once and the commentary clearly stated that the beast power was the Ottoman Empire because of its occupation of the Holy Land. You can see that there is always a tendency to write oneself and his enemy into the Biblical narrative. Now, back to the mark of the beast. Yochanan's reality is from Ezekiel chap 9. ? ???????? ??????? ??????????, ??????? ????? ????????? ?????? ????? ??????, ???, ???????? ????????; ??????????, ???-??????? ????????? ??????????, ?????? ????? ????????, ???????????. {?} 3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon it was, to the threshold of the house; and He called to the man clothed in linen, who had the writer's inkhorn on his side. {P} ? ????????? ??????, ?????, ????? ???????? ??????, ???????? ????????????; ??????????? ???? ???-???????? ???????????, ????????????? ???????????????, ??? ????-????????????, ???????????? ??????????. 4 And the LORD said unto him: 'Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that are done in the midst thereof.' ? ?????????? ????? ??????????, ??????? ?????? ???????? ????????: ??- (???-) ?????? ?????? (????????), ?????-??????????. 5 And to the others He said in my hearing: 'Go ye through the city after him, and smite; let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity; ? ????? ??????? ?????????? ????? ????????? ?????????? ???????????, ?????-????-????? ??????-?????? ?????? ???-??????????, ????????????????, ?????????; ??????????? ???????????? ???????????, ?????? ??????? ????????. 6 slay utterly the old man, the young man and the maiden, and little children and women; but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary.' Then they began at the elders that were before the house. ? ????????? ???????? ???????? ???-????????, ????????? ???-?????????? ????????--?????; ?????????, ???????? ??????. 7 And He said unto them: 'Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain; go ye forth.' And they went forth, and smote in the city. ? ???????, ????????????, ???????????, ?????; ?????????? ???-?????? ?????????, ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????, ??????????? ?????? ??? ????-????????? ??????????, ????????????? ???-???????? ???-????????????. 8 And it came to pass, while they were smiting, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said: 'Ah Lord GOD! wilt Thou destroy all the residue of Israel in Thy pouring out of Thy fury upon Jerusalem?' ? ????????? ?????, ?????? ?????-?????????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ?????, ??????????? ??????? ???????, ???????? ??????? ??????: ???? ???????, ????? ?????? ???-???????, ?????? ??????, ?????. 9 Then said He unto me: 'The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of wresting of judgment; for they say: The LORD hath forsaken the land, and the LORD seeth not. ? ?????-?????--???-?????? ??????, ????? ???????; ?????????, ?????????? ????????. 10 And as for Me also, Mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will bring their way upon their head.' ?? ???????? ??????? ?????? ??????????, ?????? ???????? ???????????, ??????? ??????, ??????: ?????????, ???? (?????? ??????) ???????????. {?} 11 And, behold, the man clothed in linen, who had the inkhorn on his side, reported, saying: 'I have done according to all that Thou hast commanded me.' This episode is highly metaphorical. To suggest that men were walking around with visible marks on their foreheads is really stretching the imagination. So what did Ezekiel and Yochanan actually see and experience? I propose that they perceived through their spiritual eyes. They related what they saw through the mystical holy prophetic language of the Ruach ha Chodesh or Divine inspired breath of HaShem which the book of Revelation calls " The spirit of Prophecy." The message of Yochanan was meant for Jewish consumption of his time and not for 20th century Christian Evangelicals visiting Israel in their air-conditioned tourist buses. The centrality of Jewish life revolves around Deuteronomy 6: ??????, ??????????: ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. 4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. ? ???????????, ??? ?????? ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. ? ??????? ??????????? ????????, ?????? ??????? ????????? ???????--???-????????. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart; ? ?????????????? ?????????, ???????????? ????, ????????????? ?????????? ????????????? ?????????, ?????????????? ???????????. 7 and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. ? ????????????? ??????, ???-??????; ??????? ?????????, ????? ????????. 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they shall be for frontlets between thine eyes. This is the core belief, the raison d'etre of every Jew including Rabbi Yeshua ben Yosef. In the book of Revelation we have the mark of the beast as opposed to the seal of G-d which is His name written upon the foreheads. Again this is metaphorical. To the Jew when he puts on the tefellim , it is a constant reminder that in all your actions ( upon the hand) and in all your thoughts( frontlets between thine eyes) you shall love YUD , HAY, VAV, HAY with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. How? By keeping the mitzvot!!!! To do otherwise is to have the mark of the beast...... the anti Mashiach, or everything that is contrary to the role of Mashiach. What is the role of Mashiach? To gather the dispersed of Yisrael, To fight the wars of HaShem, To bring his Torah and bring about teshuva and teach the hidden Torah, To rebuild the temple. This anti Mashiach is none other than the institutionalized figure-head of a Hellenistic, man made religion J-E-S-U-S. who scattered the children of Yisrael, declared war on the saints of HaShem, did away with the Torah, and destroyed the temple of HaShem. This is the beast who had the head wound and came back to life and the whole world followed in amazement. As an interesting aside, I would like to add that the Rabbis teach that when one puts on tefellim ( phylacteries) on the head , the box containing the Sh'ma has the letter Shin inscribed upon it. The knot that ties it upon the head represents the letter Dalet with the end of the tie representing the letter Yud. So we have Shin, Dalet, Yud which spells " SHADDAI" or the name of HaShem. It is also interesting that in Middle Ages Europe, you had Western Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians. The only other group were the Jews. Roman Catholics when baptizing their babies in the fonts make the sign of the cross ( mark of the beast) upon the foreheads of the babies with holy water. The Greek Orthodox when baptizing their babies make the sign of the cross ( mark of the beast ) upon the right hand of the babies with holy oil. Jews would do neither. It is said in the book of Revelation that who ever did not have the mark of the beast could not buy nor sell. All markets in Europe where held ,even up to today, on a Saturday. This was the main day of commerce. If you were Jewish, one could not partake in buying or selling because of the Shabbat. This has already been fulfilled down throughout the centuries. These conspiracy theories leave a lot to be desired. They fool us into believing all sorts of weird and wonderful cod's wallop and in doing so deny the mitzvot of HaShem which should be the focal point of all G-d fearing people. ? ??????, ??????????: ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. 4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. ? ???????????, ??? ?????? ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. The mystical book of Revelation is replete with many inspiring Jewish prophetic metaphors. HE THAT HAS AN EAR, LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE RUACH IS SAYING. "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book ; if anyone adds to them , G-d shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, G-d shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book." Rev 22 v 18-19. ? ??? ???????, ???-???????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ???????, ????? ?????????, ?????????--????????, ???-???????? ?????? ??????????, ?????? ???????, ???????? ???????. 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the L-RD your G-d which I command you. ( Deuteronomy 4 v 2). Shalom v'Ahavah, JOE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090127/4e66ea36/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 06:28:57 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 04:28:57 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Excellent primer on current Israeli politics Message-ID: <855590370901280428x3551b0aeha4a5579200a4e4e6@mail.gmail.com> Samson Blinded has posted a new item,* 'No mean right' * Israeli political spectrum settled down before the elections. In a long-overdue development, the Labor Party is dead, which is nice, really. That political entity had long outlived itself. Its socialist economic policies, though increasingly followed in the West, are discredited in the East, including the Middle East. Labor's original political platform?settling the land, expelling the Arabs, crushing our enemies?long ago became the ultra-right's domain. Trying to differentiate itself from the right and pandering to its assimilated sponsors, Labor became indistinguishable from the far-left Meretz. That party, originally a communist outfit, embraced some market rhetoric; indeed, its long-time chieftain, Beilin, retired recently to go into business. In its turn, Meretz aligned itself to the ultra-left Peace Now, a pariah organization even among the Israeli left. Kadima is an ad hoc Likud spin-off. Sharon created it for the sole purpose of pushing the Gush Katif eviction through the Knesset. Kadima lacked an ideology of its own, and following Sharon's push to the left, it drifts in the same direction. The political objectives of Peace Now, Meretz, Labor, and Kadima are similar: a piece of paper from the Arabs with the word "peace" printed on it for the price of the Lake Kineret, the Golan Heights, Judea and Samaria, and Jerusalem. Theoretically, Peace Now asks for the demolition all Jewish presence in the territories while Kadima wants some to remain. In practice, the difference is non-essential: as Qurei revealed, the Kadima government has already accepted the withdrawal plan, which would uproot half the settlements in terms of population (250,000 Jews and 40,000 Arabs live in 56 percent of Judea and Samaria. The obvious solution is to relocate the Arabs and annex the 56 percent. The Israeli government prefers to evict the Jews and abandon the land). Palestinians press for a still broader withdrawal which Kadima government accepts step-by-step. In nationalistic or religious terms, there is no difference between uprooting 150,000 (Kadima) and 250,000 (Meretz) Jews, between abandoning, respectively, 93 or 100 percent of the Judea and Samaria. The democratic process further facilitates the Left's convergence. Parties seek political dominance for its own sake rather than to reach any particular goals. Their donors need benefits from the government, local activists want official positions, and chiefs crave international recognition. Goals, if there were any in the first place, get sacrificed in the run-up to elections. In order to get more votes, parties blur their programs to make them acceptable to the widest possible audience. Kadima's political poles include Olmert's ultra-left statement that Israel would have to withdraw from everywhere?including East Jerusalem?and Livni's right-wing statement that Israeli Arabs would have to move into the Palestinian state as a condition of its creation. Likud acts the same way. The ostensibly right-wing party has always been a refuge for demagogues. Except for Oslo, all Israeli capitulations are the Right's work: Sinai, Madrid, Hebron, and Gaza. Even Oslo was accomplished by Rabin, a right-winger among the Left. Explanation of this phenomenon is a clinical psychiatrist's domain; probably it has to do with the Right's sense of persecution and insecurity, which stem from permanent opposition to the establishment and to international anti-Semitism, and from a peculiar sense of righteousness which implies being generous to enemies. Be that as it may, Netanyahu's agenda is perfectly leftist: he is for the peace process, thus for concessions to Palestinians, thus for evicting Jewish villagers and abandoning the Temple Mount, since the Arabs would accept nothing less?that is, unless Israel bombed them out of the category of acceptors. In a sense, Netanyahu is more pro-Arab than Peace Now; unlike the leftists, he insists on massive economic aid to Palestinians. According to his logic, affluent Palestinians would forget terrorism. That's nonsense on two counts: No amount of aid would make backward Arabs affluent. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the Emirates, and Qatar need no one's aid, but their Arab population is as backward as camels. Also, affluent Arabs are quite hostile to Israel. Kuwait, a mega-rich American client, hosted the PLO; Qatar is a home to radical Islamist organizations; Saudi Arabia is a premier sponsor of Islamic terrorists. If Netanyahu imagines making 90 percent of the Palestinians affluent, the remaining 10 percent?200,000 Arabs?are more than enough to man any terrorist enterprise, and economic discontent would prop up their political-terrorist aspirations. The only position which makes Likud slightly preferable to Meretz is Netanyahu's insistence on balancing Israeli concessions with Palestinian security measures. Netanyahu, however, didn't practice what he stood for; he gave away Hebron and much of Judea and Samaria while terrorism was high. A politician who abandoned Hebron clearly has still fewer qualms about Ariel. Netanyahu's balancing approach is a non-starter: Israel agrees to concessions only because of Palestinian terrorism, and public support for withdrawal soars after major terrorist attacks. Jewish defeatism is not unique: Britain abandoned the same land (and also India, Ireland?you name it) under the squall of terror. Palestinians are not stupid enough to cease terrorism before they get a state. Likud's squabble with Feiglin also indicates how far to the left the party has really gone. Netanyahu and his cohorts have personal reasons to resist Feiglin's encroachment, which would deprive them of their positions, but what about the scores of rank-and-file Likud activists who also oppose him? The polls show that Feiglin's promotion to a realistic slot in Likud's list slightly improved the party's popularity , but most activists choose to believe that Feglin is bad for Likud. Their implicit reasoning is this: Feiglin would change Likud's outlook significantly, and they prefer "their" Likud to the other man's party, even if it's genuinely right-wing. There is huge difference between a Likud with Feiglin in the twentieth spot, and one with Feiglin in the first. A reputable right-wing MK is a plus for the party, but an anti-establishment right-winger at the top would drive away many of Likud's voters. Arguably, Feiglin at the top of Likud could bring in the right-wing voters scattered among the politically amorphous religious parties. Whatever the case, Feiglin hardly made it into Likud's list and won't top it in the current elections, and probably not in the subsequent ones either. His wisdom in subverting Likud is questionable: on one hand, a systemic MK, one of the Likud crowd, is really more valuable than one from a small party. On other hand, running in his own party, flanked by right-wingers from other streams, Feiglin can consolidate a serious number of seats. In the current elections, though, this discourse is purely theoretical. Lieberman is not as bad as he sounds. A demagogue supported by financial crooks, he nevertheless has a decent history of opposing leftist measures. On this, at least, he's more consistent than Netanyahu, who supported Sharon's government almost to the day of the Gush Katif eviction. Also to his credit, Lieberman resists Russian overtures to bring him closer to the Kremlin. Shas and UTJ have fixed audiences who will vote for them no matter what. For now, they oppose relinquishing East Jerusalem, but would probably relent if offered enough subsidies for their constituency, just as they did in Gush Katif. The hypocrites who put up with de facto Palestinian occupation of the Temple Mount will find a way to soothe their consciences over de jure Palestinian occupation of Jerusalem. And don't forget, both Shas and UTJ accept giving away Judea and Samaria. It follows that any government will continue the defeatist agenda. The best we could do in the current elections would be to turn the Knesset into a platform for some really right-wing views. To be sure, the right-wing equivalent of Peace Now is not only banned from the Knesset but made illegal. At least center-right figures can enter the Knesset. This would give the conservative views increased visibility and enhance their reputation; the views spoken from the Knesset are for some reason deemed more authoritative. In the best-case scenario, the real right-wingers could serve as the Knesset's gadflies and perhaps even slow the capitulation. There is no such right-wing party among the established ones. Nor is the one needed. In small Israeli society, new parties quickly make space for themselves and on many occasions have garnered decent Knesset representation. Who is this right alternative? Meet the "Our Land of Israel" (meaning, "not their land") party of Dov Wolpe and Baruch Marzel, the last men standing. In this country with no right-wing politicians, voting for those odd men might be the best choice. At least they are honest men?a trait impossible to find in this Knesset. Marzel, a long-time assistant of Rabbi Meir Kahane, is a linchpin of Hebron Jewish community, the man behind myriad right-wing projects and incidents, of impeccable reputation and authority will no doubt justify every vote cast for him. Rabbi Dov Wolpe, a maverick Chabadnik with the Rebbe's unique blessing to live in poverty and help the people of Israel, fully lives up to his reputation. The man behind the call to Chabadniks to heed the Rebbe's instruction, "A Palestinian state is a danger to Jews," a propagandist who encouraged IDF soldiers to refuse the criminal orders for eviction of Jewish families, Wolpe represents the best type of fiercely Zionist Chabadnik. Marzel and Wolpe won't change anything in Israeli politics. Nor would anyone else. Marzel and Wolpe will get you the best bang for your vote. Does not voting for Marzel-Wolpe split the right-wing camp, causing a number of votes to fall down in between the parties as the tallies are rounded to the Knesset seats? A small effect like that will take place, but it has already been started by other right-wing parties. Religious Zionists squabbled over their four to six seats, and Moledet split out from the Jewish Home bloc. Ultra-Orthodox parties failed to unite despite the inessential nature of their differences. Secular right, Likud and Israel Our Home compete fiercely, and lose their disgruntled voters to Kadima. If Kadima is on its way back to the top, it can form the government with ultra-leftists, supported by Arab parties in the Knesset. An invasion of Gaza or an attack on Iran shortly before the elections can further boost Kadima ratings. [The article was written before Gaza operation.] Media continually slander the Right camp's pitiful leader, Netanyahu, which cannot fail to take a toll on his voter-support. Fake polls predicting a victory for the left are another powerful tool in dissuading the right-wingers from voting. Polls usually fail to account for lower turnout among right-wing voters; they support Netanyahu at polls but not at the booths. Arabs have much higher turnout. If the polls lie, the right-wing parties gain a majority, and risking two percent of conservative votes to support Marzel-Wolpe is a moderate gamble. The right can win the election but lose the government. In the scenario in which right-wing and religious parties gain the Knesset majority but Kadima earns the most votes, Livni will be forming a government. Theoretically, Shas should refuse her invitation so that if she fails, Likud can proceed with forming a government instead. In practice, Shas realizes its strong bargaining power, and would support Livni in return for massive subsidies to haredim. Presumably, Livni is willing to offer them more welfare than economically conservative Netanyahu. In the economic crisis, when donations to non-working haredim dwindled, Shas would go to great lengths of betrayal for money. In a sense, we might prefer Likud to fail. A Likud government would continue the peace process just like Kadima does?witness the Wye River and Hebron agreements. But Likud in opposition would jealously carp at Kadima for every concession to the Arabs and build a Knesset coalition against the withdrawals. Whether the Left or the fake Right wins, we need the most honest, straightforward, and vociferous right-wingers in the Knesset. Against the backdrop of fake right-wingers of every stripe who subscribe to Israeli capitulation on these or those terms, Marzel and Wolpe offer a refreshing alternative. HaBait HaYehudi is another good choice, and if you lean toward mainstream, Lieberman is better than others. You can leave a comment at http://samsonblinded.org/blog/no-mean-right.htm You received this e-mail because you asked to be notified when new updates are posted. Best regards, Danny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/6845993a/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 06:35:40 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 04:35:40 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] The Quote of the Month Message-ID: <855590370901280435u79f8710el691fd9bad57d89fc@mail.gmail.com> Taken from Rav Lazer Brody's site: "With hurricanes, tornados, fires out of control, mud slides, flooding, severe thunderstorms tearing up the country from one end to another, and with the threat of bird flu and terrorist attacks, are we sure this is a good time to take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance? " --*Jay Leno* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/bde0b0bf/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 06:50:24 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 04:50:24 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] 'No Illusions Please' (1972) Message-ID: <855590370901280450p1b801ce8xa50db7988f05ccdd@mail.gmail.com> *FROM THE DESK OF* BARBARA GINSBERG MEIR KAHANE WRITINGS (5732-33) (1971-73) *NO ILLUSIONS PLEASE* August 25, 1972 * * The problem is that time is always on the side of the tenacious; conversely, it is the enemy of the weary. The never-ending struggle erodes the determination to search for solutions and compromises that are often more the product of the desire to rest than that of common sense. Those who are tired allow themselves to believe what freshness of vigor would label as nonsense. Exhaustion and monotony push us into self-delusion We become partners to our own destruction as we fool ourselves into believing that madness is sanity, war is peace, evil is good?all so that we might return to a life of peace and normalcy. Time is also on the side of the aggressor and works against his intended victim. For it gradually washes out of our minds the past moment of danger, the time when the aggressor sought to attack, plunder, and destroy. That moment of awful truth from which the victim was barely saved fades from his memory. And with the receding of the terrible reality comes arguments cloaked in the peculiar morality that flourishes in the rarefied air of the ivory tower. With the passing of the danger, as the waves of time roll over the stark monuments to that moment of extinction, we turn away from the men to whom we rushed for safety, the generals and soldiers who exist in the harsh world of reality, and we begin to listen to the unreal academics, whose frustrations and envy of the men of reality are too often mistaken for spiritual and moral loftiness. Our combination of weariness and forgetfulness turns us away from common sense and into the arms of the denizens of the ivory tower, the demagogues and the opportunists. It is at moments like this that we throw away sanity and lose the strength that alone can save us, that alone can enable us to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Perhaps it is common to all people, perhaps it is more so with us Jews, the inability to withstand victory. But regardless of the ultimate roots of the problem, the fact remains that five years after 2.6 million Jews, together with their nineteen-year-old state, were saved from extinction, large and larger numbers of those who were almost slaughtered seek to return again to the moment of truth *Forgotten *are the 1967 pronouncements from Cairo, Damascus, Amman, Beirut, Baghdad, and Fatah. *Forgotten* are the pledges to throw us into the sea, wash Tel Aviv clean with Jewish blood, and eliminate the "gangster state" of Israel. *Forgotten* are the insanity of borders that left the coastal strip with its million Jews under the guns of Arab armies just twelve, thirteen, or fifteen kilometers away. *Forgotten *are the shells that swept into Masaryk Square in Tel Aviv and the Egyptian planes just minutes away from the heartland*. Forgotten* are our own projections of tens of thousands of soldiers, and perhaps fifty thousand civilians, dead*. Forgotten* are the borders that left settlements on the Huleh Plain lying naked beneath the Golan Syrian guns, the hills of Ephraim dominating Tel Aviv and its sister cities, the Sinai with its Egyptian land armada within spitting distance of our cities. *But forgotten* most of all are the hate, the bitter enmity, the solemn pledges of extermination, the schoolbooks with their poisonous venom, the glee and ecstasy of the days of May and early June 1967 when the mobs and potential murderers and rapists were lashing about in an agony of anticipation of the great jihad, the "holy war" that was about to begin. * Forgotten* is the reality of Arab refusal to recognize a State of Israel that is even one dunam square. *Forgotten *is the never-changing reality of "Hebronism"? What is "Hebronism"? It is the Arab policy of extermination of the Jew who seeks to live in his own land. It is the reality of that August day of 1929 that saw men, women, and children slaughtered in the streets, homes, and shops of Jewish Hebron. It is the reality of the rape and torture and gouging to death, not of "Zionists," but of yeshiva students and their families, of Ashkenazim and also of Sephardim (the latter who have suddenly become "Jewish Arabs" in the propaganda of Fatah). It is the pogroms of 1920.1921.1936-39, and 1947. In short, "Hebronism" is that policy of Arab treatment of Jews that would be the rule for us every day of the week could our enemies only accomplish it. Should we be so insane as to listen to the "doves" among us who would let them do just that? We are inundated with all kinds of *illusions* and *delusions*. Let us return this land or that land and we will have blessed peace. Let us not dare to settle Jews in Eretz Yisroel lest it anger the Arabs and jeopardize blessed peace. Let us make partial and semi partial and total and semi total agreements that call for compromise and we shall have blessed peace. Let us not move Arabs from the borders and settle Jews there; let us not dare to bomb terrorists lest we hit innocent civilians; let us be "better than they are"- and thus gain blessed peace. Let us recognize the existence of a "Palestine people" despite the refusal of every other Arab country to do so, at a time when they might at last have set up a partial "Palestine" state after 1947. Let us negotiate with our friends the mayors of Gaza and Shehem and Hebron, for they are the solution to the problem of peace. Let us, perhaps, even consider a binational state for the sake of blessed peace. Let us realize that we can reach peace and brotherhood with the Arabs by political concessions and compromises. It is time for the Jew in Israel to throw away those negative attitudes that he retains from the Galut, the exile. Chief among these is an unwillingness to look at bitter reality. We may not enjoy hearing it, but the truth is that for many years at least there will not be a sincere de jure peace with the Arabs. It may affect the tender souls of the more spiritually intellectual among us, but one can never attain either peace or security by "compromise" with bitter enemies who have no intentions of compromising with you. Those in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza who do sit down with you because they have no choice, do so only in the hope of getting rid of you as soon as possible. Our enemy, in the long run, is weariness. It is against this enemy that we must struggle. We must gird ourselves with tenacity and determination never to tire of what appears to be a never-ending struggle. For that is what it may very well become: a struggle for Jewish existence and a Jewish state that will never cease to be a struggle; a realization that between us and the Arabs stands a massive barrier that may never be breached; a determination by two peoples to live in a land that at least one will never compromise on. There will grow the weariness of having to send our children to the army without stop. There will grow the weariness of having to leave each year for reserve duty. There will grow the weariness of terrorist attacks on the borders or at the Lod airport or at the Tel Aviv bus terminal. There will, perhaps, again grow the weariness-and the heartbreak-of victims of a new war of attrition. There will grow the weariness of all this, rising to a crescendo with the frustrating cry: *"When will it finally end?"* Only the weak succumb to such frustrations; only the weak surrender to time. A strong and tenacious people know that there may never be an end to the struggle and the sacrifice. But, they also look about them and see what their refusal to surrender has accomplished: a state, and today a big one, in much of our Eretz Yisroel; a Jewish state with nearly three million souls and many more to come; the creation of a new and proud Jew. None of these things would have come about had we listened to the intellectual precursors of our modern-day intellectuals and doves. In the name of "peace" there would be no Jewish state; in the name of "morality" there would be no free Jewish nation. If we hope to survive in the literal sense of the word, let us not succumb to the siren call of easy answers and the tempting promise of "peace." Above all, let us, please, have *no illusions.* The Arabs intend to wipe us out; we must be strong enough to stop them. the Arabs who live with us in Eretz Yisroel, both those who have done so for twenty-five years and those for just five, do not live us and never will-and one cannot blame them. Let us not play games with them or with ourselves. We give them civil rights and political freedom, but what Jew will ever agree that they should become a majority? What Jew will ever agree to allow Arabs to come in on the same terms as Jews do today under the Law of Return? Israel was formed as a Jewish state. Arabs may have social, economic, and much political equality but, in the end, it is not their state. For the individual Arab we offer much, but for the Arab nation, Israel offers nothing. *It is not an Arab state, it is a Jewish state.* It came into being because Jews knew that for them there was no hope in a world that thirsted for their bodies and souls. It came into being under the realization that neither king nor republican or Marxist had the solution to the Jewish problem. That in the end it was the words of the rabbis that proved to be eternally true: "It is a law, it is known that Esau hates Jacob." And so, Eretz Yisroel, the land of the Jewish people, exists. It can never be anything but that and both we and the Arabs know it. Such a fact allows for few *illusions* over peace. Perhaps peace will come some day; I for one, doubt it. Until it does, let us not listen to the *illusions *that float down to us daily from the ivory tower or from the self-hating Left. *Strength and tenacity-they and they alone assure Jewish survival.* * * * * *Anyone reading this Rav Kahane article and is not on my personal list to receive the weekly articles written by Rav Kahane and would like to be, please contact me at:* barhow at netvision.net.il ** * * *Visit my blog for previously e-mailed Rav Kahane writings:* *http:/www.barbaraginsberg.blogspot.com* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/b640a84d/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jan 28 07:40:43 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:40:43 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With Implantable RFID ChipMakerVeriChip] Message-ID: <4980605B.4000803@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/393d5856/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jan 28 07:48:27 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:48:27 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] 'No Illusions Please' (1972)] Message-ID: <4980622B.6010902@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/0b5a23cb/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Hanoch Young Subject: [Dialogue] 'No Illusions Please' (1972) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 04:50:24 -0800 Size: 32946 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/0b5a23cb/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jan 28 07:53:14 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:53:14 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] [Fwd: Fwd: [geulawatch] Quote About Redemption from the Famous Chidushei HaRim] Message-ID: <4980634A.5020300@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/0c7dd953/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: YoungBarzel at aol.com Subject: Fwd: [geulawatch] Quote About Redemption from the Famous Chidushei HaRim Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 07:40:38 EST Size: 23455 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/0c7dd953/attachment.eml From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Wed Jan 28 10:18:23 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:18:23 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With ImplantableRFID ChipMakerVeriChip] In-Reply-To: <4980605B.4000803@westnet.com.au> References: <4980605B.4000803@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Beautiful, Joe!!! (Ozzie translation: Beaut, Mate!!!) I believe that what you are saying (and I agree totally) is that spiritually speaking, as we turn from our idolatries to follow HaShem, we erase the "mark of the beast" and receive our Father's mark. I have absolutely no superstitious concerns about chip implantation interfering with the desire of the heart to follow HaShem. From a godly standpoint, the problem with doing so arises if taking the implant actually entails disobedience to Torah. For instance, is receiving an implant akin to receiving a tattoo? We are admonished not to receive marks in our flesh: "You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you." Leviticus 19:28 I know that Orthodox Rabbis interpret this to mean, "No tattoos." I also know that in the ancient Mystery Religions, adherents would take a tattoo identifying them as belonging to their god. Like John, I just plan to avoid chip implants. I don't know if they could be considered a violation of Lev 19:28, but I do know that there will always be tyrants hoping to rule the world, and so far as I'm concerned, chip implants would serve to make their quest just that much easier! Though some may consider my view a bit paranoid, I've always said, "A little paranoia will work for ya!" Chiplessly, Avigail From: Joe Indomenico Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 8:40 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With ImplantableRFID ChipMakerVeriChip] Shalom Chaverim, This is quite a fascinating topic. I think you all agree. Thank you Patty and Avigail for bringing up the subject as seen through the various conspiracy theories. Thank you Hanoch for the laughs regarding the SoS. Did they have horns, goatie beards and pitch forks ? Thank you Tracy for posting my next year's in depth study on the subject. Although very interesting. Thank you John for your candid concerns and honesty. I would like to add that there is absolutely no difference in Biblical language between spiritual and literal , metaphor and fact, heavenly and earthly. A rabbi once told me that - spiritual, metaphor and heavenly are realities as seen from HaShem's perspective. Literal, fact and earthly are realities as perceived by the human perspective. The collision of the infinite( limitless eternity) with the finite( confined by space and time) creates the inner tension as we frail humans grapple with the Divine reality of TRUTH , which is the beginning of HaShem's Holy word. The prophetic word is the unraveling of HaShem's Will as preordained before the creation of the world. ?? ???? ????? ??????, ????? ??????? ?????? ??????, ?????? ?????? ???????????, ?????? ???????; ????? ?????? ?????????? ???????, ?????? ???????? ??????. 34 Thus saith the LORD, Who giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirreth up the sea, that the waves thereof roar, the LORD of hosts is His name: ?? ???-???????? ????????? ????????, ??????????--?????-??????; ???? ????? ?????????? ???????????, ???????? ????? ???????--????-?????????. {?} 35 If these ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever. {S} ?? ???? ????? ??????, ???-????????? ???????? ???????????, ??????????? ????????-?????, ????????: ????-????? ??????? ??????-????? ??????????, ???-????-?????? ??????--?????-??????. {?} 36 Thus saith the LORD: If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then will I also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 31v 34-36. This is prime example of this spiritual concept. By mentioning the act of creation it can be stated that this spiritual , metaphorical and heavenly reality was present with HaShem from the beginning and became a literal, fact and earthly perception on the 14th of May 1948. So whilst being in gallut and scattered to the four corners of the world without a homeland or national sovereignty, Israel was still a nation from HaShem's perspective. To give extra credence to this hidden mystery was the fact that for the previous 2000 years the sun had risen and set according to ordinances of natural order. Try as they may, the replacement theologians could not spiritualize away this truth. The reality could never change. The human perception could. The human perception became delusional only on the basis that it would not submit to the Will of HaShem. Because they did not love the truth , a deluding spirit would guide them down the path of error, so that they would believe that which was not true. As a once proclaimed Christian, the issue of human and worldly control with all the associated conspiracy theories meant nothing as I failed to keep the first and fourth commandments. Worldly control by the Pharaoh-like tyrants had to be replaced by the Heavenly control of HaShem. Taking on the yoke of Heaven with total submission to the Will of HaShem by the keeping of the mitzvot of His Holy Torah freed me from the slavery of this world. Even though I fall He will raise me up. Baruch HaShem!!! Summing up : The mark of the beast. The seal of HaShem. Anti Mashiach. Mashiach. Anti Torah. Torah. Sons of Greece. Sons of Tzion. Bondage. Freedom. Lawlessness. Law. Error. Truth. Disunity. Unity. Haughtiness. Humility. Rebellion. Submission. Carnal. Spiritual. Spiritual and literal coexist in this present dispensation. Our perception is governed by LOVING THE L-RD YOUR G-D WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL AND WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT. FEAR G-D AND GIVE HIM GLORY FOR THE HOUR OF HIS JUDGMENT HAS ARRIVED. WORSHIP HIM WHO MADE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH AND SEA AND SPRINGS OF WATER. To do otherwise ........ the mark of the beast....... spiritual or literal.......does not matter...... still the same reality. Shalom v'Ahavah Laila Tov JOE. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/cb781c40/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 13:37:21 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:37:21 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] The Handwriting on the Wall Message-ID: <855590370901281137q4af53f25r2f453ef36d96221a@mail.gmail.com> The Handwriting on the Wall By Brigitte Gabriel During this first month of the New Year 2009, we have seen some stunning developments that, considered together, should leave absolutely no doubt about the rising radical Islamic threat on our doorsteps in America. I have been warning Americans since 2002 about this threat, and that the threat is not just confined to terrorism. This is not a "war on terror." Terror is a tactic, one of many in the arsenal of radical Islamists. I have been declaring, to anyone who would listen, that Islamists are well on their way to subverting and transforming Europe, and they are riding that wave here to America. I have told my personal story, of how Islamists, step by step, took over my country of Lebanon. How they used our freedoms and commitment to tolerance and multiculturalism against us to further their ultimate ends. And how they are using the same strategies and tactics against us in the West. In just the past three weeks we have seen: ? A violent Islamic protest in Britain, where an angry mob shouting "Allahu Akbar" chased ? yes, chased ? dozens of British policemen for blocks. You must see this video to believe it! (Please be warned ? there is offensive language and profanity). Click here to see this shocking video. ? Pro-Hamas, anti-Israel Muslims conducting demonstrations here in America, shouting praises to Hitler for what he did to the Jews, yelling "go back to the ovens," and at times physically attacking counter-protestors. ? The Amsterdam Court of Appeals ordering the prosecution of Dutch parliamentarian Geert Wilders because he has made statements deemed "insulting" and harmful to "the religious esteem" of Muslims. ? Austrian parliamentarian Susanne Winter convicted of "incitement," because of public statements she has made, including the claim that the prophet Mohammed was a pedophile. ? Muslim protest marches in Italy that ended with the protestors, in an obvious act of intimidation, conducting mass prayer vigils directly in front of Catholic places of worship. ? The release of an official U.S. government report stating that Hezbollah is forming terrorist cells here in the U.S. that could become operational. ? The UN continuing to move ahead with the "Durban II" conference and its document that is little more than an anti-Israel rant that calls for suppressing public "defamation" of religion ? notably Islam. This has run parallel to an effort by the Organization of the Islamic Conference to get the UN Human Rights Commission to pass a resolution condemning public "defamation" of Islam. My friends, the handwriting is clearly on the wall. Radical Islam is on the march, and it is growing stronger and bolder with every passing day. What elected official in Europe or the UK will now have the courage to speak out against this threat? Certainly the actions against parliamentarians Wilders and Winter will ultimately have a chilling effect on American elected officials as well. How many more "no-go zones," Muslim enclaves where non-Muslims and even police officers fear to go, will appear in Europe? We're already seeing such enclaves develop here in America right now. There's a reason why Dearborn, Michigan, is frequently referred to as "Dearbornistan." What will happen in America when 50,000 ranting, chanting Islamist demonstrators attempt to aggressively back down and chase police officers trying to maintain order? Will the police use the force necessary? If they do, we can expect howls from groups like CAIR (the Council on American-Islamic Relations). How will government officials respond? And if the police back down and run, as they recently did in Britain, what message is being sent to radical Islamists? With the recent announcements by the Obama administration regarding ending the use of certain coercive interrogation practices, will this administration have the courage and use the tools necessary to protect us from Hezbollah, Hamas and al Qaeda terrorist cells in our midst? It is becoming crystal clear that 2009 is going to be a critical year in our effort to roll back the rising tide of Islamofascism. Over the next several weeks we will be announcing various projects and programs designed so that we can more aggressively and effectively go on the offense against this threat. I am asking you to pay close attention to these announcements when they occur and to participate in every way you can. We must all come together and ACT! this year, before the worldwide momentum building behind radical Islam becomes too powerful to stop. Always devoted, Brigitte Gabriel ============================================= Women For Israel's Tomorrow (Women in Green) POB 7352, Jerusalem 91072, Israel Tel: 972-2-624-9887 Fax: 972-2-624-5380 mailto:wfit2 at womeningreen.org http://www.womeningreen.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/9515730e/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 13:50:00 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:50:00 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] URGENT Prayers needed (Israel's wounded soldiers & civillians) Message-ID: <855590370901281150k42d2ae81udb5e958e523db2bf@mail.gmail.com> Friday, 16 January 2009, 10:30 AM Reply by email | Forward | Bookmark this *Wounded Soldiers and Civilians in Need of Prayer* Updated January 16, 2009 Urgent ? please pray for OrEl ben Angela, 7 year old boy critically injured yesterday by GRAD missile in Beersheva. Doctors are battling to save his life. Parents had him after 11 childless years. This was forwarded to us: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 6:53 PM, wrote: Natanel ben Mazel Tov, Israeli soldier wounded in his right arm and leg, asks us to convey this message: "Thank you for all your prayers for us soldiers. All the prayers help. May G-d repay you only good." Then he beseeches us to pray for his buddy Ben, who needs prayers far more than he does. Ben ben Batya has lost both his hands and both his legs, and he is in critical condition. Please pray for our wounded soldiers and civilians. Please send us any more names that should be included here, mother's names where missing, corrections and/or any other updated info about the condition of these soldiers. May we only hear good news and may they all be healed b'ezrat HaShem (G-d willing). BH soldier Yedidya ben Shira- who had shrapnel wounds to face is doing much better and has been removed from the list. Wounded Soldiers: Gilad ben Aviva Shalit ? soldier kidnapped by Hamas more than 3 years ago & Hamas claims he was injured in Israeli air-raid. They also say they are no longer interested in him. We don't know what has happened to him or how. Aharon Yehoshua ben Chaya Shoshana - He got married Thursday night. Friday he went into Gaza. He was critically injured Jan. 12. He needs our tefillot desperately; Hoshea ben Miriam ? critical (enoshot) head injuries; Wahal Mijan ? critical (enosh), has metal shards in his brain, has had 3 operations & doctors are battling to save his life; Ben ben Netiva ? critical (enosh) with head injuries & has had 1 hand amputated & doctors are battling to save his other hand; Ben ben Batya - critical (enosh); Neriya ben Rivka ? very serious head injury; Dvir ben Leah & Tzviki bar Chai ? very seriously injured and is not fully conscious; Noam ben Aliza - one leg amputated; doctors fighting to save the other; Nechemia Dov Ber ben Arilin - Nechemia is the son of Rabbi & Mrs. Yehuda Rubin the Chabad shaliach in Alon More and was injured in Azza Jan. 13 during a raid in one of the homes in Azza. He is recuperating from an operation. He is in stable condition, with burns and bandages all over his face, head and arm. The operation he had was to remove shrapnel that exploded in his eye. The family asked that everyone say Tehilim for a complete recovery; Yosef Chaim ben Ziva ? very seriously injured on the entire left side of his body- has regained consciousness BH; Raphael ben Dina ? was very seriously injured; no longer in life-threatening danger after a successful operation but has a long road ahead to full recovery; Oren ben Chaya ? seriously injured shoulder & hand ? has had 1 finger amputated; Ronen Chai ben Leah ? seriously injured; Ron ben Havatzelet ? seriously injured with shrapnel over all of his body; Eitan ben Sarah ? very serious leg injury; Gal ben Hedva ? seriously injured with shrapnel to his jaw & mouth; Tom ben Chana ? hit by shrapnel in ribs next to lungs; Avi ben Shoshana ? moderately wounded Jan. 14, 2009 by anti-tank missile; Yehoshua ben Naomi Edward ben Sarah ? serious hand injury; Elishama Shalom ben Rivka Leah; Ran ben Merril ? moderate shoulder injury; Idan ben Nadi ? moderate shrapnel injuries; Yitzchak ben Navah - moderate shoulder injury; Netanel ben Navah - moderate shrapnel wounds to a lower extremity; Netanel ben Mazal tov ? shrapnel wounds to legs, fractured right arm, ear drum injury; Ohad ben Bracha ? moderate facial injuries; Tal ben Anat ? leg injuries; Yakov (Koby) ben Orly ? facial injuries; Yakov ben Yardena ? neck and back injuries; Gal ben Aliza ? leg injuries; Maxim ben Olga - light lower leg injury, operation to remove shrapnel; Yisrael ben Ilana - light shrapnel injury to an ear; Yo'ad Ido ben Frieda Elka- light shrapnel injuries; Idan ben Liora - light shrapnel injuries; Nadav ben Miriam (Maria) - light shrapnel injuries; Sagi ben Osnat ? light shrapnel injuries to his leg; Omer ben Dorit ? light shrapnel inuries to legs; Evgeny ben Elizabeth ? leg injury; Lior ben Mazal Oleg Dizengoff Daniel Tamarov ? shrapnel wounds near eyes; Avi Cohen Roni Rapaport Ori Noga ? shrapnel wounds; Yaakov Wolf - hit by shrapnel in his neck that miraculously missed his jugular vein BH; Moshe ben Pnina Rose Chaim Moshe Naftali ben Ruth Reizel ? lightly injured Chachaf ben Calie ? lightly injured Wounded civilians: OrEl Ben Angela - age 7 son of Angela and Avi Alizrof who was ver seriously injured in GRAD attack in Beersheva today, Jan. 15.Doctors are battling to save his life. Both were riding in a car that took a direct hit and they were thrown out of the car seconds before the car blew up and caught on fire. Witnesses said it was a miracle. Angela is a nurse in Soroka Hospital. Her little 7 year old boy is very seriously injured with metal shrapnel in his head. Gavriel ben Sarah from Sderot ? child in severe shock from kassam attack; Yakov ben Rivka - very seriously injured from kassam rocket; Bat El Hila bat Phoebe ?age 31 seriously injured abdomen from kassam rocket that fell in Netivot, has undergone 7 operations; Gila bat Odelia ? moderately injured by kassam attack in Netivot; Gila bat Chana - age 56, shrapnel in back and severe post traumatic shock from witnessing neighbor killed in kassam attack Netivot; Yakov ben Miriam ? 83 wounded rocket explosion suffering injuries to left leg and blood vessels, also damage to hearing and sight; Michael ben Anna, 23 seriously wounded left leg, has undergone 6 operations and will need at least 4 more; Avi ben Chamo ? about age 60, lightly injured shrapnel in cheek from kassam fired on Sderot; Kidnapped & Missing Soldiers: Ron ben Batya (Arad) Guy ben Rina (Hever) Tzvi ben Pninah (Feldman), Yekutiel Yehuda Nachman ben Sarah (Katz), Zecharia Shlomo ben Miriam (Baumel Majdi Halabi Shulamit groups.yahoo.com/group/SurvivalDuringHardTimes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/eff94acd/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 14:08:04 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:08:04 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] The Torah on "Disengagement" Message-ID: <855590370901281208w9d0c732v8f566f2601a4e54c@mail.gmail.com> The Torah on 'Disengagement' Tevet 29, 5769, 25 January 09 10:14 by by Rabbi Eliezer Melamed (IsraelNN.com) *The Commandment to Settle the Land* The commandment to settle the land of Israel requires that we conquer the land. It is thus written, "Possess the land and settle it, for I have given you the land in order that you take possession of it" (Numbers 33:53); and our sages explain the expression "possess" to imply the conquest and establishment of Israeli sovereignty in the land. Moreover, this commandment remains binding upon us in all generations (Ramban, *Hosefot LeMitzvat Aseh 4*). The *Shulchan Arukh* concurs with this position (*Even HaEzer* 75); and *Pitchei Teshuva* (*ad locum*, 6) adds that all authorities are in agreement upon this law. It is true that for many generations we have not merited the privilege of fulfilling this precept because we have lacked the military capacity needed to conquer and defend the land. Yet, as soon as such a capacity is achieved we are obliged to occupy the land. Hence, it goes without saying that it is prohibited to relinquish any part of the land to another people. It is clear that the commandment to settle the land overrides the possibility of any life-threatening danger to individual lives, for we are enjoined by the Torah to conquer the land - and war, by its very nature, involves loss of life. It follows that regarding the obligation to settle the land of Israel any posed threat to individual Jewish lives is not considered a deterrent (*Minchat Chinnukh*, 425). *'Do Not Allow Them to Reside in Your Land'* In addition to the more general Torah commandment to take possession of the land of Israel, the Torah warns: "Do not allow them to reside in your land." (Exodus 23:33) The Rambam (*Hilkhot Avoda Zara* 10:6) explains that when we have the power, it is forbidden to allow any non-Jew to reside in our land, with the exception of a *Ger Toshav* - a resident alien who has accepted some of the laws of Judaism. Torah authorities, though, are divided over the question: To whom does this prohibition apply? Some hold that only a non-Jew who, before a court, professes faith in the God of Israel and takes upon himself to observe the seven commandments of Noah's descendants, is considered a *Ger Toshav* who is permitted to live in Israel. Others are of the opinion that even if one does not accept these responsibilities before a court, so long as he does not worship idols and upholds the seven Noahide laws, he is not prohibited from living in Israel. According to the latter opinion, good and amiable Muslims are permitted to live in Israel, because Islam does not embrace idolatry. Arabs, though, who are hostile towards us clearly do not fulfill the seven Noahide laws, for they fail to recognize the God of Israel who has given us the land of Israel. In addition, such Arabs support terrorists, thereby violating the Noahide prohibition against murder; and they also refrain from establishing courts of law which will try these terrorists, which is also one of the seven Noahide commandments. While it is true that some early authorities are of the opinion that the Biblical injunction, "Do not allow them to reside in your land" applies exclusively to the "seven nations" (Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizites, Hivites and Jebusites), the majority take it to apply to any Gentile who fails to uphold the seven laws of Noah's descendants. This being the case, according to the two main opinions brought above, it is forbidden for a ruling Jewish government to allow Arabs who refuse to accept Jewish sovereignty to live in Israel; and it goes without saying that it is forbidden to present them with land where they will be able to increase the number of non-Jews who do not uphold the Noahide laws. *'No Consideration'* The Torah also exhorts: "...do not give them any consideration" (Deuteronomy 7:2), and the sages interpret this to mean that it is forbidden to provide non-Jews with any sort of foothold upon the soil of the land of Israel (*Avodah Zara* 20a). This prohibition compliments the previously dealt-with proscription against allowing them "to reside in your land": it is the obligation of the entire Jewish people to uphold the "residence" prohibition. The "foothold" prohibition, on the other hand, warns each and every individual Jew not to sell a house or lot of land to any non-Jew who is not a *Ger Toshav*. It follows that it is forbidden to give any portion whatsoever to Arabs who do not uphold the seven Noahide laws. Regarding this interdiction there is consensus among authorities that it applies to all non-Jews and not just to the "seven nations"; and if it is forbidden to sell them a single house, how much more so to give them large portions of the land of Israel. *'No Land Shall Be Sold Permanently'* The Torah also warns us, "No land shall be sold permanently" (Leviticus 25:23), and the Ramban, basing himself upon the teachings of the sages, learns from here that it is forbidden to sell to a Gentile any land which belongs to a Jew. The reason that this is forbidden is that such an act results in the land's not returning to its original Jewish owner in the Jubilee year (Ramban, *Mitzvoth Lo Ta'aseh* 227). It follows that it is forbidden for the state of Israel to give portions of our ancestral inheritance to non-Jews. No ruler or government in the world has the right to displace even a single Jew from his home in the land of Israel. The Almighty God has given this land to the nation of Israel and every Jew has a portion in it. No government in the world wields the authority to steal the lot of even a single Jew, uprooting him from a home which he bought or built in accordance with the law. It follows that any agreement which calls for the eviction of Jews from their homes is prohibited. Incidentally, it is worth mentioning that according to the Ran (see *Nedarim * 28a) the rule *dina d'malkhuta dina* (Lit., "the law of the kingdom is the law"; a Halakhic principle which says that Jews must obey the laws of the state in which they live) applies in the lands of the exile alone. The reason for this is that in these countries the land is the property of the kingdom, and one is hence obligated to abide by the laws and ordinances of the country in which he resides. But, says the Ran, in the land of Israel, which belongs to the entire nation of Israel, there is no halakhically-based obligation to comply with the laws of the government. Only under a Jewish state in the land of Israel, because it has the status of a "King of Israel," is there a requirement to conform to the laws. Most authorities, however, hold that *dina d'malkhuta dina* applies even in the land of Israel, for public consensus is what gives the government its authority to rule and promulgate laws. This is the opinion of both Rambam and the *Shulchan Arukh*. Nevertheless, all agree with the basic assertion of the Ran, that the land of Israel belongs to the entire nation of Israel and, hence, that no government possesses the authority to uproot Jews from their ancestral inheritance. *Life-Threatening Danger* According to the sages of the Talmud (*Eruvin* 45a) and the eventual ruling of the *Shulchan Arukh* (*Orach Chaim* 329:6), any concession to an enemy, even a slight one, constitutes an endangerment to life. The sages therefore taught that in a situation where enemies attempt to steal even "straw and stubble from a border settlement," Jews must go out and attack them. The reason for this course of action is that if adversaries are allowed to get away with straw and stubble, our power of deterrence will be weakened and, in the end, neighboring peoples will undertake to capture settlements and murder people. And even if they come to steal on the Sabbath, the life-threatening danger involved makes it necessary to desecrate the Sabbath and carry out an armed response. If, then, for mere straw and stubble the sages forbade making concessions because of the eventual life-threatening danger involved, it goes without saying that handing over entire settlements is out of the question. Such behavior will greatly kindle the motivation of the terrorists to murder. Indeed, the aftermath of the infamous Oslo Accords have unfortunately already proven the correctness of the logic which underlies this ruling. The Oslo navigators promised peace for a hundred years, and instead caused us more than a thousand deaths and intensified worldwide anti-Semitism. *Desecration of God's Name* Because the cession of territory which our enemies demand is backed by strong international pressure, submitting to these forces and relinquishing the land which God Himself bequeathed our ancestors and ourselves will render us guilty of desecrating God's name. We are therefore enjoined to oppose all such anti-religious coercion. *Levels of Sanctification and Desecration* Any commandment which is carried out publicly has the effect of sanctifying God's Name. Such an act hence possesses great value, for the entire purpose of creation is to reveal God's majesty in this world. On the other hand, transgressions carried out in public constitute a desecration of God's name and their severity is therefore much greater than those carried out in private. There exist varying degrees of sanctification and desecration of God's name. The greater publicity an act receives, the greater the amount of sanctification or desecration God's Name receives. The most famous Torah commandment in the world is the commandment to settle the land of Israel. The nations have only a vague concept about what is implied by kosher food or Sabbath observance, but they all know that the Almighty has promised the Land of Israel to the Jewish people. It is written numerous time in the Bible, and the Bible is the most important and popular book in the world. The entire world knows that God promised the land of Israel to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and their offspring. All are aware that God, through His prophets, has declared that the Jews will eventually return to their land. Therefore, when, thanks to God's abundant kindness, the state of Israel was established, God's Name was sanctified greatly in the eyes of the nations, for the words of the Prophets were fulfilled. When, again, we merited liberating Jerusalem, as well as Judea, Samaria and Gaza, God's name was once again sanctified; it was as if the entire world heard the blast of the *shofar* (ram's horn). There could be almost no greater desecration of God's Name than our now relinquishing portions of our sacred homeland. All of the news programs would focus in on it. The entire world would be made aware that God's children agreed to give away portions of the holy soil which God Himself had given them as an eternal possession. Therefore, we must exert ourselves to the utmost so that the words of the prophets be fulfilled and this terrible desecration of God's Name be prevented. *May It Be God's Will* May God bless all of the dedicated activists working to protect the settlements in Judea and Samaria and the Golan Heights, and may it be God's will that we all merit seeing the fulfillment of the words of the Prophet Isaiah (Isaiah 65:18-24): "Be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create, for, behold, I create for Jerusalem a rejoicing and for her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem and joy in My people and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying... and they shall build houses and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree shall the days of My people be, and the chosen ones shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for confusion, for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them. And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear." www.IsraelNationalNews.com (c) Copyright IsraelNationalNews.com Subscribe to the free Daily Israel Report - sub.israelnn.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/7cab8760/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Wed Jan 28 16:15:13 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:15:13 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Hey Hanoch In-Reply-To: <855590370901281137q4af53f25r2f453ef36d96221a@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901281137q4af53f25r2f453ef36d96221a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <04d601c98195$e6133b20$b239b160$@com> Hey there Hanoch, it looks like you're feeling better - I hope you are!! Patty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/3af21d7e/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 17:49:53 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:49:53 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Hey Hanoch In-Reply-To: <04d601c98195$e6133b20$b239b160$@com> References: <855590370901281137q4af53f25r2f453ef36d96221a@mail.gmail.com> <04d601c98195$e6133b20$b239b160$@com> Message-ID: <855590370901281549p5897c93apc8cdcaf60941bfe0@mail.gmail.com> Hey Patty - Yes, thank G-d I am feeling much, much better; a little stronger each day. HaShem was very kind and merciful to me - he took me to the very edge of a really dangerous situation, and pulled me back, right at the last moment. It's been a real "reality check" for me - on a deeply spiritual level. Although I'm rarely at a loss for words, it's tough to explain exactly. It's been a series of lessons I hope I'll internalize forever, and use them to help guide my daily actions. Toda for asking! :-) * Hanoch * On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Patty wrote: > Hey there Hanoch, it looks like you're feeling better ? I hope you are!! > > > > Patty > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/e0b4d56b/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 17:59:42 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:59:42 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] "Without Iran, there is no Hizbullah and no Hamas" Message-ID: <855590370901281559w11a71c7cm216c28fe6b2ceb64@mail.gmail.com> One on One with Avigdor Lieberman: 'Without Iran, there is no Hizbullah and no Hamas' Ruthie Blum Leibowitz - Jan 22, 2009 The Jerusalem Post Like an expected incident that nevertheless takes one aback when it actually materializes, the Color Red alert comes as a surprise. Avigdor Lieberman grins, his deep blue eyes sparkling mischievously. "I arranged this for illustrative purposes," he says in Russian to the group of VIPs he has escorted to the South, to see for themselves what Operation Cast Lead is all about. Among them are the ambassadors to Israel from Belarus, Moldova and Uzbekistan, a Ukrainian diplomat and the Russian and Kazakhstani embassy secretaries. Some laugh nervously; others have not heard his quip, as they are trying to position themselves safely in the stairwell where they have huddled, waiting for the coast to be clear, or for the rocket to fall, whichever comes first. That they have just returned from visiting an apartment that had been struck by a Grad missile mere days before, and seeing the havoc it wreaked, makes this moment really hit home, so to speak. After a boom is heard far off in the distance, the guests and their host emerge from the building - lodged between a row of shops and felafel stands near Ashkelon's City Hall - in which they have been taking temporary refuge. They reboard their bus. Lieberman, bodyguards in tow, sits down with me at a small table adjacent to a kiosk, for a 15-minute interview. As we do, dozens of locals, some from the former Soviet Union and others native Israelis, gather around the chairman of the Israel Beiteinu party, to shake his hand and express their support. "Keep up the good work!" one shop-keeper yells above the din. "You're the best!" another shouts, patting the Knesset member on the back. "Here's to our next prime minister!" a woman calls out, blowing kisses in the air. Whether this is more a function of Lieberman's celebrity - or notoriety - than an indication of how he is going to fare on February 10 is not clear. But polls have the former minister of strategic affairs, who joined the current government in October 2006 and quit last January, adding a mandate or two to his present 11. This may have something to do with the fact that the controversial figure - whose separation plan had Peace Now comparing him last year to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and still has many on the Right rejecting him for his willingness to relinquish territory - has become more mainstream. Or, at least, more acceptable to a wider societal spectrum. Whereas his core base has been voters from the former Soviet Union, a broader cross section of the public has come to consider him an option - particularly among those secular right-wingers who have grown disillusioned with Likud in general and with its leader, Binyamin Netanyahu, in particular. Two recent additions to Lieberman's list both reflect this trend and harbor hopes of enhancing it: former Likud MK Uzi Landau, who first joined forces with Netanyahu in 2005 to try to oust Ariel Sharon as party leader, then ran against Netanyahu himself and, finally, quit the race altogether; and former ambassador to the US and co-chairman of Nefesh B'Nefesh Danny Ayalon. What they bring to the table even money can't buy, and that's the sabra "stamp." Oh, and "cleanliness" - something which, before the war in Gaza diverted all attention away from the campaign trail, was touted as crucial to an electorate fed up with the corruption scandals surrounding its politicians. And Lieberman himself is no stranger to police investigations. That he has never been brought up on any charges has caused him to accuse Attorney-General Menahem Mazuz of less-than-pure motives in his "witch-hunt." The key allegations against the 50-year-old resident of the Judean settlement of Nokdim, who made aliya from Kishinev (today Moldova) in 1978, are that he exerted influence on the Russian mafia to prevent the collapse of an Austrian bank by manipulating the value of the ruble. Other suspicions surrounding him involve his alleged use of illegal donations to finance his party's first run for the Knesset in 1999. But what the three-time former minister is best known for these days is his uncompromising stance on the need for Israeli Arabs to prove their loyalty to the state, and on employing any measure it takes to eradicate the Iranian nuclear threat. (*The following exchange took place less than a week before Israel declared a unilateral cease-fire in Gaza, and subsequent "agreement" on the part of Hamas to adopt the same policy. Given Lieberman's comments on what constitutes the achieving of the war's goals, it is no wonder that he expressed great displeasure on Sunday with the circumstances under which IDF troops are pulling out.* Seeing the results of the disengagement from Gaza, do you not have second thoughts about your party platform, which involves territorial exchanges? Is the conflict between the Jews and Arabs in this region really an issue of "real estate"? Our platform has nothing to do with "real estate." On the contrary, what we state unequivocally is that we are completely opposed to what has been and still is the guiding principle of Israel's foreign policy: "land for peace." We have enough examples to show that the formula doesn't work, among them the fact that we withdrew from every last millimeter in Gaza, and in exchange, we got Kassams and Hamas. The same applies to Lebanon, where we got Hizbullah and Katyushas. This is why we say that there is no such thing as "land for peace." There is either "peace for peace" or the exchange of territory and populations. I remember arguing with [former prime minister] Arik Sharon in the cabinet following disengagement. I said, "Look, you're going to establish a Palestinian state without a single Jew. You committed to evacuating all Jewish settlements, so there would be a homogeneous Palestinian state. At the same time, Israel is moving toward a binational state that has more than 20 percent Arabs. This kind of construct won't survive. And, if you've already decided to progress toward a two-state solution, why is one of them a state and a half - since all Israeli Arabs identify themselves as Palestinians - and the other half a state? If the aim is two states, at least let's have two states for two peoples." I cited the model of Cyprus. Cyprus used to be in the condition that we are in. Greeks and Turks lived together, and there was friction between them, that included bloodshed and terrorism. In 1974, they put 100 percent of the Turks on the northern side of the island, and 100% of the Greeks on the southern side. There is no peace agreement to this day. But there is stability, security and prosperity. That is our ambition. If this was your argument with Sharon, what possessed you to join the government headed by Ehud Olmert? The way I see it, the main existential threat to Israel is Iran - not the Palestinians, the Lebanese or anybody else. Iran created a strategic advantage over Israel by establishing a border with us, even though we don't have a border with them. There are three Irans: Iran via Hizbullah from Lebanon; Iran via Hamas and Islamic Jihad from Gaza; and Iran with unconventional weapons and long-range missiles. Without Iran, there is no Hizbullah, no Hamas and no Islamic Jihad, most of whose budget, weaponry, technology and training comes from Iran. These groups are unable to exist without Iranian backing. Moreover, Iran is not part of our internal debate. It doesn't split the nation from within. There's no essential difference between [former Meretz Knesset member] Yossi Beilin and Avigdor Lieberman regarding Iran. No one is suggesting we annex it or liberate it or establish settlements there. So, Beilin proposes to give it a smack from the Left, and I from the Right, but there's no real argument of the kind there is regarding the Golan Heights or Judea and Samaria. As a normal country, then, we should focus on the Iranian problem, and first remove it as a threat, so we can begin to argue again. In other words, the whole idea was to shift the debate from the Palestinian track to the Iranian. And we did for a year, until Olmert went to Annapolis. As soon as he returned from there and began negotiating on core issues, we left the government. When former Likud minister Uzi Landau joined your party, he said that though he didn't agree with that aspect of your platform involving territorial and population swaps, he could live with it, because it wouldn't be relevant for so many years that it didn't really matter. Do you agree? I don't know. The processes in this region are unpredictable, so I don't want to make forecasts. What I do want is to have contingency plans, so as not to be taken by surprise by events. I want to be prepared for any development that arises. No one knows what is going to happen in the future. After all, who could have predicted the events in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Palestinian Authority? But we do know what we have been experiencing for the last 20 years. Therefore, we have to be ready and able to confront any challenge that comes our way. Secondly, I don't expect every member of the party to agree 100% with every other member on everything. So, there are some with whom you agree 95%, 90% or even 80%. But, we're not like Likud. I don't understand, for example, what the common denominator is between Moshe Feiglin and Dan Meridor. Such differences couldn't exist in our party. Danny Ayalon told *The Jerusalem Post *recently that if opposition leader Binyamin Netanyahu becomes prime minister and forms a broad coalition with Kadima and Labor - as he has said he will do - there is no way Israel Beiteinu will join him. Is that true? I don't see any chance of Netanyahu's forming a coalition with both Kadima and Labor. It's true that he has been speaking of a national unity government, but his intention first - as I understand it, at least - is to form a national coalition, and after that to find out which of the two - Kadima or Labor - will be ready to join. As of yesterday, when I spoke to Netanyahu, that was his approach. Returning to your party platform, though Israel forcibly moved Jews out of their homes in Gush Katif and northern Samaria, is it realistic to expect anyone in this country or abroad to agree to the uprooting of even a single Arab? We are not proposing to move populations. We are talking about moving the border. This way, people will stay put in their homes and on their land. Isn't this a bit unrealistic, considering the border would have to wind around in circles, creating enclaves? You can't separate the populations entirely, but you can with a large portion. All the Arab settlements on the line between us and the PA - Umm el-Fahm, for example - won't be moved. We'll move the border. We won't have to pay for their unemployment, or health, or education. We won't have to subsidize them any longer. In that event, what will happen if they behave as the Gazans have been - and, instead of building up their society, they store weapons and fire missiles? As in the case of any country acting aggressively, which could come from Lebanon or Syria, we would respond accordingly. Are you saying that, if necessary, Israel would go to war with such a Palestinian state? Absolutely. You saw what happened when terrorism was rampant in Judea and Samaria; we launched Operation Defensive Shield. Justice Minister Daniel Friedmann, during a trip to the South, said that no arrangement on Gaza should be reached without making Gilad Schalit's release a condition. I think that it's clear that any arrangement should include Schalit. Do you anticipate a different ending to this operation from the Second Lebanon War? Is the cease-fire going to mean a retreat on the part of the IDF, and a subsequent renewal of weapons amassing? I hope not. I wanted Israel - at minimum - to achieve control over the Rafah crossing and the Philadelphi Corridor. Without that, this whole operation loses its significance. What about completely destroying Hamas? Wasn't that your hope, as well? Ultimately, Israel won't be able to live in peace and security as long as Hamas remains in control. And we will have to have a decisive outcome - something this government is not able to achieve. And a decisive outcome, in this case, means breaking Hamas's motivation and will to continue fighting us - just as the United States did to Germany and Japan at the end of World War II. They simply gave up on the military option. That's what constitutes breaking the enemy. But can that be accomplished without breaking Iran first? As I said, the source is Iran. And we have to do what needs to be done. 3965 W. 83rd. Street #292 Shawnee Mission, KS 66208 I Phone: 913.648.0022 I Fax: 913.648.7997 This site is designed for standards compliant browsers. If your browser is not standards compliant, download one here . Website copyright (c) 2006. Unity Coalition for Israel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/6463a5ee/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Wed Jan 28 19:01:17 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:01:17 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Finally, some good news! In-Reply-To: <855590370901281549p5897c93apc8cdcaf60941bfe0@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901281137q4af53f25r2f453ef36d96221a@mail.gmail.com> <04d601c98195$e6133b20$b239b160$@com> <855590370901281549p5897c93apc8cdcaf60941bfe0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <04fc01c981ad$19a48ef0$4cedacd0$@com> Red, Red Wine Or Resveratrol by David Mittleman Tuesday, January 27, 2009 9:32 AM EST According to a recent CBS, 60 Minutes episode, a red wine resveratrol pill is coming to the market as an anti-aging pill. Resveratrol is a component found in red wine and is said to be a molecular mimic of a calorie restricted diet; a plan that has been shown to almost double the life span of all forms of life when caloric intake is cut in half. Giant Pharmaceutical Company, GlaxoSmithKline is wagering almost a billion dollars that a small start-up company developing a potent synthetic version of resveratrol will work. In the mean-time Newsweek recently reported 4 more reasons to drink red wine (in moderation): * It can keep you fit; * It may help fight Alzheimer's; * It boosts heart healthy Omega 3 levels; * It may lower lung cancer risk. Please remember when it comes to any alcoholic intake-you must act responsibly. Too much of a good thing can be bad. Find this article at: http://lansing.injuryboard.com/fda-and-prescription-drugs/red-red-wine-or-re sveratrol.aspx?googleid=256084 Yippee!! Patty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/9d0d7154/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Wed Jan 28 19:06:04 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:06:04 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Defiance: Now a Major Motion Picture References: <20090128154964.1D83DFB11619@elabs3.com> Message-ID: <302D41DD-9181-4B0A-9001-94D629B3679F@earthlink.net> Something to definitely watch for and/or read...James > > This message contains graphics. If you do not see graphics, please > click here. > > Now a Major Motion Picture Starring Daniel Craig and Liev Schreiber > > > Key Features: > > ? Reconstructs a poignant and unforgettable story > > ? Tec offers penetrating insight > into the group's commander, Tuvia Bielski > > ? Tec, a Holocaust survivor, > draws on wide-ranging > research and never-before- published interviews with surviving > partisans > > > Defiance > Nechama Tec > ISBN: 9780195376852 > Paperback, January 2009, 416 pp. > List Price:$14.95 > > > The prevailing image of European Jews during the Holocaust is one of > helpless victims, but in fact many Jews struggled against the > terrors of the Third Reich. InDefiance, Nechama Tec offers a > riveting history of one such group, a forest community in western > Belorussia that would number more than 1,200 Jews by 1944?the > largest armed rescue operation of Jews by Jews in World War II. > > Tec reconstructs for the first time the amazing details of how these > partisans and their families?hungry, exposed to the harsh winter > weather?managed not only to survive, but to offer protection to all > Jewish fugitives who could find their way to them. Tec brings to > light the untold story of Bielski's struggle as a partisan who lost > his parents, wife, and two brothers to the Nazis, yet never wavered > in his conviction that it was more important to save one Jew than to > kill twenty Germans. > > Review: > "Excellent." ?David Denby, The New Yorker > > About the Author: > Nechama Tec is Professor of Sociology at the University of > Connecticut, Stamford. She is the author of six books, including In > the Lion's Den: The Life of Oswald Rufeisen, the winner of the 1990 > Christopher Award, When Light Pierced the Darkness, and Dry Tears, a > memoir of her experiences during the years of the Nazi occupation of > Poland. > > Also Recommended > In the > Lion's Den > > List: $14.95Hidden Children of the Holocaust > > List: $24.95 > Sale: $19.96Crossing Hitler > > List: $27.95 > Oxford University Press | 198 Madison Avenue | New York, NY 10016 > Update Your Preferences | Unsubscribe | Customer Service > Oxford University Press will never sell, rent, or trade your email > address to other companies. To unsubscribe or update your > subscription preferences, please follow the links above. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/304237e0/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Wed Jan 28 19:07:56 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:07:56 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Defiance: Now a Major Motion Picture In-Reply-To: <302D41DD-9181-4B0A-9001-94D629B3679F@earthlink.net> References: <20090128154964.1D83DFB11619@elabs3.com> <302D41DD-9181-4B0A-9001-94D629B3679F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <051001c981ae$06c890f0$1459b2d0$@com> Hey James, Dave and I wanted to see this - have you seen/read it? Patty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of James Tabor Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 8:06 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Defiance: Now a Major Motion Picture Something to definitely watch for and/or read...James This message contains graphics. If you do not see graphics, please click here. Oxford University Press Now a Major Motion Picture Starring Daniel Craig and Liev Schreiber Defiance Key Features: . Reconstructs a poignant and unforgettable story . Tec offers penetrating insight into the group's commander, Tuvia Bielski . Tec, a Holocaust survivor, draws on wide-ranging research and never-before- published interviews with surviving partisans Defiance Nechama Tec ISBN: 9780195376852 Paperback, January 2009, 416 pp. List Price:$14.95 Buy Now The prevailing image of European Jews during the Holocaust is one of helpless victims, but in fact many Jews struggled against the terrors of the Third Reich. In Defiance, Nechama Tec offers a riveting history of one such group, a forest community in western Belorussia that would number more than 1,200 Jews by 1944-the largest armed rescue operation of Jews by Jews in World War II. Tec reconstructs for the first time the amazing details of how these partisans and their families-hungry, exposed to the harsh winter weather-managed not only to survive, but to offer protection to all Jewish fugitives who could find their way to them. Tec brings to light the untold story of Bielski's struggle as a partisan who lost his parents, wife, and two brothers to the Nazis, yet never wavered in his conviction that it was more important to save one Jew than to kill twenty Germans. Review: "Excellent." -David Denby, The New Yorker About the Author: Nechama Tec is Professor of Sociology at the University of Connecticut, Stamford. She is the author of six books, including In the Lion's Den: The Life of Oswald Rufeisen, the winner of the 1990 Christopher Award, When Light Pierced the Darkness, and Dry Tears, a memoir of her experiences during the years of the Nazi occupation of Poland. Also Recommended In the Lion's Den In the Lion's Den List: $14.95 Hidden Children of the Holocaust Hidden Children of the Holocaust List: $24.95 Sale: $19.96 Crossing Hitler Crossing Hitler List: $27.95 Oxford University Press | 198 Madison Avenue | New York, NY 10016 Update Your Preferences | Unsubscribe | Customer Service Oxford University Press will never sell, rent, or trade your email address to other companies. To unsubscribe or update your subscription preferences, please follow the links above. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/a1318c8c/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Wed Jan 28 19:11:15 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:11:15 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Iran - US Talks In-Reply-To: <051001c981ae$06c890f0$1459b2d0$@com> References: <20090128154964.1D83DFB11619@elabs3.com> <302D41DD-9181-4B0A-9001-94D629B3679F@earthlink.net> <051001c981ae$06c890f0$1459b2d0$@com> Message-ID: <051b01c981ae$7d255120$776ff360$@com> Iran leader wants U.S. apology for 'crimes' (say what?) In wake of Obama's Arab TV interview, Ahmadinejad welcomes policy shifts msnbc.com news services updated 8:10 a.m. ET, Wed., Jan. 28, 2009 TEHRAN, Iran - Iran's president called for the U.S. to apologize for past misdeeds Wednesday but also said the country would welcome a real and fundamental shift in foreign policy from the new American administration. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's comments came after President Barack Obama indicated a new willingness to reach out to Muslims and the importance of engaging with Iran, a country the Bush administration often singled out as the most dangerous in the region. Without mentioning Obama by name, Ahmadinejad repeatedly referred to those who want to bring "change," a word used often in Obama's election campaign, and seemed to indicate Iran would be looking to see whether there would be substantive differences in U.S. policy under Obama. "We will wait patiently, listen to their words carefully, scrutinize their actions under a magnifier and if change happens truly and fundamentally, we will welcome that," Ahmadinejad said, speaking to a crowd of thousands in the western city of Kermanshah. Dark background' But the Iranian leader also criticized the U.S. and demanded an apology. "Those who say they want to make change, this is the change they should make: they should apologize to the Iranian nation and try to make up for their dark background and the crimes they have committed against the Iranian nation," Ahmadinejad said. He listed a range of "crimes" such as trying to block what Tehran says is a peaceful nuclear power generation program, hindering Iran's development since the 1979 revolution and other actions by several administrations for more than 60 years. He also called on Washington to withdraw its troops from around the world and stop supporting Israel. In his speech, Ahmadinejad said: "Who has asked them (the United States) to come and interfere in the affairs of nations? "Change means giving up support for the rootless, uncivilized, fabricated, murdering... Zionists and let the Palestinian nation decide its own destiny," he said. "Change means putting an end to U.S. military presence in (different spots of) the world." Speaking in his first formal television interview as president, Obama told Al-Arabiya news channel that Iran must "unclench its fist". Direct talks? The new administration has said Obama would break from his predecessor by pursuing direct talks with Tehran but has also warned Iran to expect more pressure if it did not meet the U.N. Security Council demand to halt its disputed nuclear work. Washington and its Western allies accuse Iran of seeking to build nuclear weapons. Tehran denies the charge and refuses to give up work it insists is its sovereign right. The U.S. also accuses Iran of sponsoring "terrorists" and undermining efforts to make peace in the Middle East between Israel and Arabs. Echoing Obama's remarks, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton signaled the administration's readiness to talk to Iran, saying Tuesday that Tehran had a "clear opportunity" to show the world it is willing to engage. She told reporters that the U.S. administration is undertaking a wide-ranging and comprehensive survey of U.S. foreign policy options toward Iran. Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister Mehdi Safari, speaking in Athens, Greece, said Tuesday that it was too early to say whether relations with the United States would improve with Obama as president. The U.S. broke off diplomatic relations with Iran in 1979 after hardline students stormed the U.S. Embassy in Tehran. The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report. URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28890746/ MSN Privacy . Legal C 2009 MSNBC.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/ec224314/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Wed Jan 28 19:14:05 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:14:05 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Defiance: Now a Major Motion Picture In-Reply-To: <051001c981ae$06c890f0$1459b2d0$@com> References: <20090128154964.1D83DFB11619@elabs3.com> <302D41DD-9181-4B0A-9001-94D629B3679F@earthlink.net> <051001c981ae$06c890f0$1459b2d0$@com> Message-ID: No, but I know of several books/films that were made on story of the resistance at Sobibor in 1943. I wonder if this has that same setting. There was a book by Thomas Blat called They Fought Back. I definitely want to see this and probably get the book for sure for the United Israel/Horowitz library. James On Jan 28, 2009, at 8:07 PM, Patty wrote: > Hey James, > > Dave and I wanted to see this ? have you seen/read it? > > Patty > > From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > ] On Behalf Of James Tabor > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 8:06 PM > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Defiance: Now a Major Motion Picture > > > Something to definitely watch for and/or read...James > > > This message contains graphics. If you do not see graphics, please > click here. > > Now a Major Motion Picture Starring Daniel Craig and Liev Schreiber > > > Key Features: > > ? Reconstructs a poignant and unforgettable story > > ? Tec offers penetrating insight > into the group's commander, Tuvia Bielski > > ? Tec, a Holocaust survivor, > draws on wide-ranging > research and never-before- published interviews with surviving > partisans > > Defiance > Nechama Tec > ISBN: 9780195376852 > Paperback, January 2009, 416 pp. > List Price:$14.95 > > > The prevailing image of European Jews during the Holocaust is one of > helpless victims, but in fact many Jews struggled against the > terrors of the Third Reich. InDefiance, Nechama Tec offers a > riveting history of one such group, a forest community in western > Belorussia that would number more than 1,200 Jews by 1944?the > largest armed rescue operation of Jews by Jews in World War II. > > Tec reconstructs for the first time the amazing details of how these > partisans and their families?hungry, exposed to the harsh winter > weather?managed not only to survive, but to offer protection to all > Jewish fugitives who could find their way to them. Tec brings to > light the untold story of Bielski's struggle as a partisan who lost > his parents, wife, and two brothers to the Nazis, yet never wavered > in his conviction that it was more important to save one Jew than to > kill twenty Germans. > > Review: > "Excellent." ?David Denby, The New Yorker > > About the Author: > Nechama Tec is Professor of Sociology at the University of > Connecticut, Stamford. She is the author of six books, including In > the Lion's Den: The Life of Oswald Rufeisen, the winner of the 1990 > Christopher Award, When Light Pierced the Darkness, and Dry Tears, a > memoir of her experiences during the years of the Nazi occupation of > Poland. > Also Recommended > In the > Lion's Den > > List: $14.95 > Hidden Children of the Holocaust > > List: $24.95 > Sale: $19.96 > Crossing Hitler > > List: $27.95 > Oxford University Press | 198 Madison Avenue | New York, NY 10016 > Update Your Preferences | Unsubscribe | Customer Service > Oxford University Press will never sell, rent, or trade your email > address to other companies. To unsubscribe or update your > subscription preferences, please follow the links above. > > > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/1cf14528/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 20:03:35 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:03:35 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Defiance: Now a Major Motion Picture In-Reply-To: References: <20090128154964.1D83DFB11619@elabs3.com> <302D41DD-9181-4B0A-9001-94D629B3679F@earthlink.net> <051001c981ae$06c890f0$1459b2d0$@com> Message-ID: <855590370901281803h187eed57g1c37bd572fe24341@mail.gmail.com> No, it's about the Bielski brothers who set up a large Partisan camp in Belarus, and saved approximately 1,200 Jews. They did amazing things... * Hanoch * On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:14 PM, James Tabor wrote: > No, but I know of several books/films that were made on story of the > resistance at Sobibor in 1943. I wonder if this has that same setting. There > was a book by Thomas Blat called They Fought Back. I definitely want to see > this and probably get the book for sure for the United Israel/Horowitz > library. > James > > > On Jan 28, 2009, at 8:07 PM, Patty wrote: > > Hey James, > > Dave and I wanted to see this ? have you seen/read it? > > Patty > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [ > mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > ] *On Behalf Of *James Tabor > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 28, 2009 8:06 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Dialogue] Fwd: Defiance: Now a Major Motion Picture > > > Something to definitely watch for and/or read...James > > > > This message contains graphics. If you do not see graphics, please click > here > . > [image: Oxford University Press] > *Now a Major Motion Picture Starring Daniel Craig and Liev Schreiber* > [image: Defiance] > > > *Key Features:* > > ? Reconstructs a poignant and unforgettable story > > ? Tec offers penetrating insight > into the group's commander, Tuvia Bielski > > ? Tec, a Holocaust survivor, > draws on wide-ranging > research and never-before- published interviews with surviving > partisans > *Defiance > * > *Nechama Tec * > ISBN: 9780195376852 > Paperback, January 2009, 416 pp. > List Price:$14.95 > [image: Buy Now] > > The prevailing image of European Jews during the Holocaust is one of > helpless victims, but in fact many Jews struggled against the terrors of the > Third Reich. In*Defiance > *, Nechama Tec offers a riveting history of one such group, a forest > community in western Belorussia that would number more than 1,200 Jews by > 1944?the largest armed rescue operation of Jews by Jews in World War II. > > Tec reconstructs for the first time the amazing details of how these > partisans and their families?hungry, exposed to the harsh winter > weather?managed not only to survive, but to offer protection to all Jewish > fugitives who could find their way to them. Tec brings to light the untold > story of Bielski's struggle as a partisan who lost his parents, wife, and > two brothers to the Nazis, yet never wavered in his conviction that it was > more important to save one Jew than to kill twenty Germans. > > *Review:* > "Excellent." ?David Denby, *The New Yorker* > > *About the Author:* > *Nechama Tec* is Professor of Sociology at the University of Connecticut, > Stamford. She is the author of six books, including *In the Lion's Den: > The Life of Oswald Rufeisen*, the winner of the 1990 Christopher Award, *When > Light Pierced the Darkness*, and *Dry Tears*, a memoir of her experiences > during the years of the Nazi occupation of Poland. > *Also Recommended* > [image: In the Lion's Den] > *In the > Lion's Den > * > > List: $14.95 > [image: Hidden Children of the Holocaust] > *Hidden Children of the Holocaust > * > > List: $24.95 > Sale: $19.96 > [image: Crossing Hitler] > *Crossing Hitler > * > > List: $27.95 > Oxford University Press | 198 Madison Avenue | New York, NY 10016 > Update Your Preferences > | Unsubscribe > | Customer Service > Oxford University Press will *never* sell, rent, or trade your email > address to other companies. To unsubscribe or update your subscription > preferences, please follow the links above. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/a6c11f03/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 20:34:13 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:34:13 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Song, "Perfect Place" w/English subtitles Message-ID: <855590370901281834x173ea2a8p2ea31c3b20001295@mail.gmail.com> This is a great song, with English subtitles (so you can practice your Hebrew!) from Subliminal, who's renowned not only as a performer, but as a Nationalist (which is VERY unusual in that genre of music). It also features Sivan Behnam, who has a fabulous voice. * Hanoch* Click here: YouTube - Subliminal & Sivan Behnam - Perfect Place - Live (English Su -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/62ca5a6a/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Wed Jan 28 21:54:39 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:54:39 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Hey Hanoch In-Reply-To: <855590370901281549p5897c93apc8cdcaf60941bfe0@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901281137q4af53f25r2f453ef36d96221a@mail.gmail.com> <04d601c98195$e6133b20$b239b160$@com> <855590370901281549p5897c93apc8cdcaf60941bfe0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <054901c981c5$51a46b00$f4ed4100$@com> Hey Hanoch, So glad you are on the mend. I have always found that illness, thought very physical, has an intense spiritual effect. I hope to hear more about your ordeal, when you are ready of course. Love, Patty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 6:50 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Hey Hanoch Hey Patty - Yes, thank G-d I am feeling much, much better; a little stronger each day. HaShem was very kind and merciful to me - he took me to the very edge of a really dangerous situation, and pulled me back, right at the last moment. It's been a real "reality check" for me - on a deeply spiritual level. Although I'm rarely at a loss for words, it's tough to explain exactly. It's been a series of lessons I hope I'll internalize forever, and use them to help guide my daily actions. Toda for asking! :-) Hanoch On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Patty wrote: Hey there Hanoch, it looks like you're feeling better - I hope you are!! Patty _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/f6718a3e/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Wed Jan 28 23:02:01 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:02:01 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] URGENT Prayers needed (Israel's wounded soldiers &civillians) In-Reply-To: <855590370901281150k42d2ae81udb5e958e523db2bf@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901281150k42d2ae81udb5e958e523db2bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5F762AA8421343468E6F611E507EE136@bettylaptop> Toda rabba, Hanoch! Great to see you back! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:50 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] URGENT Prayers needed (Israel's wounded soldiers &civillians) Friday, 16 January 2009, 10:30 AM Reply by email | Forward | Bookmark this Wounded Soldiers and Civilians in Need of Prayer Updated January 16, 2009 Urgent - please pray for OrEl ben Angela, 7 year old boy critically injured yesterday by GRAD missile in Beersheva. Doctors are battling to save his life. Parents had him after 11 childless years. This was forwarded to us: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 6:53 PM, wrote: Natanel ben Mazel Tov, Israeli soldier wounded in his right arm and leg, asks us to convey this message: "Thank you for all your prayers for us soldiers. All the prayers help. May G-d repay you only good." Then he beseeches us to pray for his buddy Ben, who needs prayers far more than he does. Ben ben Batya has lost both his hands and both his legs, and he is in critical condition. Please pray for our wounded soldiers and civilians. Please send us any more names that should be included here, mother's names where missing, corrections and/or any other updated info about the condition of these soldiers. May we only hear good news and may they all be healed b'ezrat HaShem (G-d willing). BH soldier Yedidya ben Shira- who had shrapnel wounds to face is doing much better and has been removed from the list. Wounded Soldiers: Gilad ben Aviva Shalit - soldier kidnapped by Hamas more than 3 years ago & Hamas claims he was injured in Israeli air-raid. They also say they are no longer interested in him. We don't know what has happened to him or how. Aharon Yehoshua ben Chaya Shoshana - He got married Thursday night. Friday he went into Gaza. He was critically injured Jan. 12. He needs our tefillot desperately; Hoshea ben Miriam - critical (enoshot) head injuries; Wahal Mijan - critical (enosh), has metal shards in his brain, has had 3 operations & doctors are battling to save his life; Ben ben Netiva - critical (enosh) with head injuries & has had 1 hand amputated & doctors are battling to save his other hand; Ben ben Batya - critical (enosh); Neriya ben Rivka - very serious head injury; Dvir ben Leah & Tzviki bar Chai - very seriously injured and is not fully conscious; Noam ben Aliza - one leg amputated; doctors fighting to save the other; Nechemia Dov Ber ben Arilin - Nechemia is the son of Rabbi & Mrs. Yehuda Rubin the Chabad shaliach in Alon More and was injured in Azza Jan. 13 during a raid in one of the homes in Azza. He is recuperating from an operation. He is in stable condition, with burns and bandages all over his face, head and arm. The operation he had was to remove shrapnel that exploded in his eye. The family asked that everyone say Tehilim for a complete recovery; Yosef Chaim ben Ziva - very seriously injured on the entire left side of his body- has regained consciousness BH; Raphael ben Dina - was very seriously injured; no longer in life-threatening danger after a successful operation but has a long road ahead to full recovery; Oren ben Chaya - seriously injured shoulder & hand - has had 1 finger amputated; Ronen Chai ben Leah - seriously injured; Ron ben Havatzelet - seriously injured with shrapnel over all of his body; Eitan ben Sarah - very serious leg injury; Gal ben Hedva - seriously injured with shrapnel to his jaw & mouth; Tom ben Chana - hit by shrapnel in ribs next to lungs; Avi ben Shoshana - moderately wounded Jan. 14, 2009 by anti-tank missile; Yehoshua ben Naomi Edward ben Sarah - serious hand injury; Elishama Shalom ben Rivka Leah; Ran ben Merril - moderate shoulder injury; Idan ben Nadi - moderate shrapnel injuries; Yitzchak ben Navah - moderate shoulder injury; Netanel ben Navah - moderate shrapnel wounds to a lower extremity; Netanel ben Mazal tov - shrapnel wounds to legs, fractured right arm, ear drum injury; Ohad ben Bracha - moderate facial injuries; Tal ben Anat - leg injuries; Yakov (Koby) ben Orly - facial injuries; Yakov ben Yardena - neck and back injuries; Gal ben Aliza - leg injuries; Maxim ben Olga - light lower leg injury, operation to remove shrapnel; Yisrael ben Ilana - light shrapnel injury to an ear; Yo'ad Ido ben Frieda Elka- light shrapnel injuries; Idan ben Liora - light shrapnel injuries; Nadav ben Miriam (Maria) - light shrapnel injuries; Sagi ben Osnat - light shrapnel injuries to his leg; Omer ben Dorit - light shrapnel inuries to legs; Evgeny ben Elizabeth - leg injury; Lior ben Mazal Oleg Dizengoff Daniel Tamarov - shrapnel wounds near eyes; Avi Cohen Roni Rapaport Ori Noga - shrapnel wounds; Yaakov Wolf - hit by shrapnel in his neck that miraculously missed his jugular vein BH; Moshe ben Pnina Rose Chaim Moshe Naftali ben Ruth Reizel - lightly injured Chachaf ben Calie - lightly injured Wounded civilians: OrEl Ben Angela - age 7 son of Angela and Avi Alizrof who was ver seriously injured in GRAD attack in Beersheva today, Jan. 15.Doctors are battling to save his life. Both were riding in a car that took a direct hit and they were thrown out of the car seconds before the car blew up and caught on fire. Witnesses said it was a miracle. Angela is a nurse in Soroka Hospital. Her little 7 year old boy is very seriously injured with metal shrapnel in his head. Gavriel ben Sarah from Sderot - child in severe shock from kassam attack; Yakov ben Rivka - very seriously injured from kassam rocket; Bat El Hila bat Phoebe -age 31 seriously injured abdomen from kassam rocket that fell in Netivot, has undergone 7 operations; Gila bat Odelia - moderately injured by kassam attack in Netivot; Gila bat Chana - age 56, shrapnel in back and severe post traumatic shock from witnessing neighbor killed in kassam attack Netivot; Yakov ben Miriam - 83 wounded rocket explosion suffering injuries to left leg and blood vessels, also damage to hearing and sight; Michael ben Anna, 23 seriously wounded left leg, has undergone 6 operations and will need at least 4 more; Avi ben Chamo - about age 60, lightly injured shrapnel in cheek from kassam fired on Sderot; Kidnapped & Missing Soldiers: Ron ben Batya (Arad) Guy ben Rina (Hever) Tzvi ben Pninah (Feldman), Yekutiel Yehuda Nachman ben Sarah (Katz), Zecharia Shlomo ben Miriam (Baumel Majdi Halabi Shulamit groups.yahoo.com/group/SurvivalDuringHardTimes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090128/51972def/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 05:53:53 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 03:53:53 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] To rebuild Joseph's Tomb? Message-ID: <855590370901290353j1d5134ckfaa421046907e6dc@mail.gmail.com> *Activist Wants Joseph's Tomb Rebuilt *By: Sergey Kadinsky Date: Wednesday, January 28 2009 "It's nice to get some good news from Israel," said Barry Freedman, executive director of Americans for a Safe Israel (AFSI), which was hosting Shomron Regional Council spokesman David Ha'Ivri, who came to New York to provide an update on the rebuilding efforts at Joseph's Tomb. In October 2000, shortly after the Second Itafada erupted, Joseph's Tomb was destroyed. Since then, local Jewish leaders have made efforts to restore access to the tomb, and promote its rebuilding. The momentum for rebuilding took off in November 2007, when Gershon Mesika was elected mayor of the Shomron Regional Council, which represents some 40 Jewish communities in Samaria or northern West Bank. Seeking to improve the image of the settler community, Mesika appointed Ha'Ivri to lead its Liaison Office. "We created the Liaison Office to open up the Shomron to the world," said Ha'Ivri. "Conflict is only a small part of our life. We have organic farming, and we're building kindergartens" Mesika also vowed to use his position to rebuild Joseph's Tomb, which is a short drive from his home in Elon Moreh. Under Mesika's leadership, the Regional Council and the IDF agreed to allow buses to visit the tomb every month at night, under tight security. Concrete was poured for a new tombstone, and Chanukah candles were lit for two of the nights. During presentations to audiences, Ha'Ivri shows a 10-minute documentary, "Kever Yosef - Rising From the Ashes," which describes the history, significance, and present condition of the tomb. Among those quoted in the film is New York Times Middle East reporter Isabel Kershner who expresses surprise at the diversity of worshippers at the tomb. While many local Muslims dismiss any notion of the tomb's holiness, another local religious group shares the Jewish viewpoint. "We have full cooperation with the Shomronim," said Ha'Ivri, referring to the Samaritans, an ancient Shechem-based sect. "They preserved Kever Yosef when there were no Jews [living] there. They view themselves as the children of Yosef." Ha'Ivri recently met with Samaritan leader Ovadia Cohen to discuss joint tourism projects. In the meantime, while access to Joseph's Tomb still remains limited to a monthly list of bus passengers, Ha'Ivri promotes a new park built in the town of Har Bracha, which overlooks Nablus, the Arab city built atop ancient Shechem, "Mitzpeh Yosef - Joseph's Overlook." "Kever Yosef is only 300 yards below," said Ha'Ivri. Until a permanent Jewish presence can be restored to the site, Ha'Ivri sees Mitzpeh Yosef as similar to kibbutz Ramat Rahel, from where Jewish pilgrims gazed at Rachel's Tomb before it was liberated by Israel in 1967. When an audience member at a recent lecture questioned whether the Regional Council's efforts were bearing fruit, Ha'Ivri noted that 25 Knesset members of various parties agreed that the current condition of the tomb is intolerable. "We're running a serious campaign for public opinion in Israel." Copyright 2008 www.JewishPress.com _______________________________________________ Update mailing list Update at yeshuv.org http://yeshuv.org/mailman/listinfo/update_yeshuv.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/70ebbdcd/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 06:00:46 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 04:00:46 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] "Hope at the Ballot Box" Message-ID: <855590370901290400l76a4523jca2f9479d50e1b0c@mail.gmail.com> [image: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/] Daily Israel Report Subscribe (free) Home News News Briefs Opinion Judaism Features Blogs Admin Radio | Live [image: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/static/a7radio.asx] TV Jukebox Israel Pics Services RSS Advertise Hope at the Ballot Box Shevat 3, 5769, 28 January 09 10:52 by by David Shalom (IsraelNN.com) On February 10 Israel heads to the polls, and the good news for the Zionist public is that this time there is real hope. Indeed, this article is dedicated to those readers who despair of the enemy within. It is a guide for those who wish to stop the continued policy of retreat and surrender, and prevent the progress of the Islamic enemy at our gates. It is for those who shared my thoughts on Winograd, and the disasters that preceded Israel's defeat in Lebanon and continued with its recent failure to destroy Hamas. Yes, dear reader, there is a party that will stand up for you this time. For those who seek a Zionist path to secure Israel's future, there can be no hesitation to give your vote to the National Union (Ichud Leumi) party. As we enter election season, we are constantly bombarded with a plethora of platforms and promises from parties who purport to represent the values of the nationalist camp, but it is only the National Union that opposes all territorial surrender to Arab usurpers. It is only the National Union that opposes the continuation of the Oslo process. It is only the National Union that combines the ideology of *Eretz Yisrael* and Zionism with the personalities capable of translating those policies into real action. A vote for the National Union is the pragmatic way of translating the power of the nationalist camp into an effective political force in government. The National Union is made up of four true right-wing nationalist parties - Moledet, Hatikva, Tekuma and Eretz Yisrael Shelanu - and is led by Yaakov Katz (the founder of Arutz Sheva and builder of Judea and Samaria) joined by MKs Uri Ariel and Professor Aryeh Eldad. The list follows with yet more men of letters and of action. Personalities like Dr. Michael Ben Ari, a scholar of Judaism and pupil of the late Rabbi Binyamin Kahane (*H.y.d., z.ts.l.*), as well as Uri Bank, leading Anglo activist from Moledet, television personality Avi Rat and Dr Ron Breiman, former head of Professors for a Strong Israel and long-time leading light amongst the secular nationalist public. Indeed, there are other equally worthy people on the list who hopefully will make it into the Knesset too. Thus, the party gives representation to secular and religious, Sepharadim and Ashkenazim, veteran Israelis and immigrants, to civilian and military backgrounds, to scientists and artists alike - all united in the belief in the unity of the Land of Israel for the People of Israel according to the eternal Torah of Israel. The party platform states: "The National Union (Ichud Leumi) is a party that strives for the full implementation of the rights of the Jewish people over its entire homeland that will provide for a public Jewish character to the State of Israel, that will realize the eternal values of the nation in the public life of the state and will work for the widespread immigration (*Aliyah*) of the Jewish people in exile to Israel." There are those who would say: Should we not vote for a larger right-wing party, specifically the Likud, lest we waste our vote and thus indirectly help the Left? But this is not the case. All the polls show that the Right will be in a majority (approximately 66 mandates for the Right, compared to the 44 of the Left and 10 of the Arabs) after the elections. It is a near certainty, as much as anything in politics can be, that the Likud leader Binyamin Netanyahu will form the next government. The real uncertainty lies in what coalition he will be able to form on February 11. The National Union will support Netanyahu in his bid for the premiership, but will make the party's entry into any coalition dependent upon the end of all territorial surrender. The National Union will be faithful to core values that include the restoration of Jewish Zionist values and education, low taxation and free market economics, combined with a social conscience. A strong National Union representation will prevent any coalition with Kadima and other leftist parties. A strong National Union will serve to balance out voices of the Left within the coalition. It will send a message to the Likud that the public doesn't want Kadima or Labour in the government. It will guarantee the end of the same old failed territory-for-terror policies. There are those who worry that a vote for the National Union may be lost if the party does not meet the high electoral threshold for entering the Knesset. But this worry is unjustified; the National Union currently has two sitting MKs and the support of a third retiring MK (Rabbi Benny Elon), and has constantly polled significantly above the threshold by up to two seats in all surveys taken. In fact, there is no reason for this trend to stop now. Indeed, with the electoral collapse of the Bayit HaYehudi-National Religious Party, the National Union could even win an extra two or three seats. The National Union appeals to religious Zionists from Tekuma and Moledet. It also appeals to the wider secular public through its Hatikva constituent led by Professor Eldad, and it appeals to the Hareidi sector through Rabbi Dov Wolpe and Baruch Marzel's Eretz Yisrael Shelanu party, which is likely to be endorsed by Chabad. There are then those who believe that Avigdor Lieberman will represent them better. While it is true that Mr. Lieberman is indeed a Zionist, he has not committed to vote against any and all withdrawals, and his party platform even suggests that he supports some sort of Palestinian Arab state in Western *Eretz Yisrael*. The Yisrael Beiteinu party platform specifically states: "The responsibility for primarily Arab areas such as Umm Al-Fahm and the 'triangle' will be transferred to the Palestinian Authority." In contrast, the National Union makes it clear that it believes that the entire Land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people and it will not surrender one inch of it The National Union will actively seek to dismantle the Palestinian Authority, rather than give it more of the Land of Israel. The National Union is the only party that believes in the justice of the cause of the Jewish people in their homeland without apology. It is the only party that remains true to the ideals of Zeev Jabotinsky and Betar. By ensuring a strong National Union presence in the Knesset, we will strengthen the hand of the next government in the face of internal and external pressures to surrender the homeland. On February 10, the Zionist reader should put the symbol *tet* - ? - in his envelope at the polling station. www.IsraelNationalNews.com (c) Copyright IsraelNationalNews.com Subscribe to the free Daily Israel Report - sub.israelnn.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/de52f67f/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 06:06:34 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 04:06:34 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Kidnappings and self-respect Message-ID: <855590370901290406y7de5af10u10d14e8d1ae099b@mail.gmail.com> Samson Blinded has posted a new item, *'Kidnappings and self-respect'* The deterioration of Israel's self-respect is disheartening. Soon after the state was formed, Israel was forced to deal with the first MIA situation. Sharon then kidnapped several Jordanian officers, and exchanged them for Israeli MIAs. The Shalit debacle goes on for years even though Dughmushes, Hamas ministers, and PIJ members are walking at large, waiting to be taken hostage for exchange with Shalit. Common Gazans laud Hamas instead of crying as Israel destroys a dozen of houses per hour to force his release. When the terrorists hijacked an aircraft with Jewish passengers and landed it in Entebbe, they asked for a prisoner swap which seems laughable by the current standards, only for a few of their comrades. Israel chose to attack a sovereign state of Uganda, lose a number of hostages and a commando, but refused negotiating with kidnappers. Both Rabin and the opposition leader Menahem Begin agreed then: as long as even a slightest chance exists to release the hostages forcibly, they should not be exchanged. Israel embarked on the course which lacks even Kafka's explanation, such as exchanging a thousand terrorists for a Jewish drug dealer or a top terrorist Kuntar for two decomposed corpses which used to be Jews. Now the government will trade the terrorists who did not pull the trigger regardless of their role as accomplices to mass murder of Jews. Israeli jails are full with 11,000 "terrorists" of the stone-throwers' variety who should rather be flogged and dumped into Gaza. Israel successfully hunted down the terrorists who killed Jewish athletes during the German Olympics. Since the 1980s, Israel only hunts down conservative Jews, murdering the people like Kahane and settler activists. Paying homage to the daring operations of the early state, Mossad and Shabak engage in targeted assassinations of terrorist leaders, but the effect is just the opposite. While the early assassinations of perpetrators made common terrorists nervous and pushed them to make errors and be caught, leaders' assassinations do not concern the common members, and are avenged tremendously against soft Jewish targets abroad. When PLFP-GC hijacked an El Al aircraft, the IDF blew up thirteen civilian airliners in Beirut airport. When the PLO very rarely shelled Israel North from Lebanon, Israel responded with massive retaliatory raids which drove masses of Shiites from South Lebanon, eventually leading to the civil war in Beirut. Who could think forty years ago that Israel would resort to theatrical raids on Gaza in retaliation to the shower of rockets on her towns? The problem is the rulers of Israel believed their own rhetoric. Leftists such as Ben Gurion spoke about peace and tolerance but ruled the Arabs with iron fist. The next generation took their pronouncements to the heart. The generation of Israeli leaders who lack the firsthand experience of pre-state war of survival with Arabs, who expect the IDF to prevail and the US to intervene, who are concerned with foreign media more than with domestic opinion, lead the country to death. Unless, of course, we deal with them reciprocally. You can leave a comment at http://samsonblinded.org/blog/kidnappings-and-self-respect.htm You received this e-mail because you asked to be notified when new updates are posted. Best regards, Danny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/2ff08431/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 06:19:49 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 04:19:49 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] An opportunity missed... Message-ID: <855590370901290419p2fb21d14offd0d1a112d58c96@mail.gmail.com> Do I even need to comment on this? Note the Russian destroyer there...but Israel could have sunk that ship in 30 seconds....we'll see all those missiles again, when we're on the receiving end.... *Hanoch * * **US military chief confirms interception of Gaza-bound Iranian arms ship* DEBKAfile Exclusive Report January 28, 2009, 10:50 PM (GMT+02:00) Adm. Mullen, Chairman of US Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen said Jan. 28 the US Navy had intercepted a Cypriot-flagged ship in the Red Sea last week and searched it with the captain's permission for Iranian arms bound for the Gaza Strip. This Iranian arms ship was first revealed exclusively by DEBKAfile on Jan. 20 and tracked further on Jan. 23 and Jan. 25. Click HERE| http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5873}. The Navy had done all it could do legally but was not authorized to seize the weapons," said Mullen, adding he would like authority to act in such cases. The vessel was expected in port in Syria this week, he said. DEBKAfile's military sources disclose that it is bound for Latakia, where It will dock alongside the Russian guided missile destroyer Admiral Chabanenko . After the US Navy allowed it to continue its voyage through Suez, the Iranian vessel's captain called Tehran for instructions and was told to proceed to this Syrian port and unload its arms consignment for Hamas, including a fresh supply of rockets. Entering the Mediterranean on Jan. 26, the Iranian ship found three waiting three armadas ? Israeli warships, the US Sixth Fleet and the Chabanenko. They all stayed close to the vessel ? each with its own agenda: The first two blocked its access to the shores of Gaza, while the Russian destroyer kept watch for developments. But there were no further developments because, as Adm. Mullen complained, there are no international mechanisms authorizing its seizure. Speaking to reporters in Washington the American admiral said he had long favored approaches to Iran. "To the degree that we are able to dialogue with them, find some mutual interests, there is potential there for moving ahead together," he said. He then added cautiously: "Iran is unhelpful in man, many ways in many, many areas, so I wouldn't be overly optimistic at this point. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/bba62046/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 06:34:21 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 04:34:21 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] watch islamic education at work Message-ID: <855590370901290434y7c939b47wc761ae66cde0913f@mail.gmail.com> YouTube - IDFco12's Channel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/0cd39a0e/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Thu Jan 29 10:06:37 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:06:37 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] RE: RAF Message-ID: <0F7ACFC1B5D843C9B9C57FB5B5AD1A6A@bettylaptop> James, this is great news about the pastor ordering 60 copies, even though he doesn't agree with all that you wrote. If only there were more people that could have such an open mind. I have a new friend that I met in the office where I was doing catastrophe insurance claims. She was born Jewish, married a Methodist and has raised her children in the Christian faith. She said she would never officially convert to Christianity, and that she did this to keep peace in the home. However, she has never really been able to put aside her Jewish roots. When I told her about my conversion, she became very interested and in our conversation, one thing led to another, and I gave her your book. She recently had a mastectomy and is getting ready to undergo reconstructive breast surgery. .She is very excited about reading it during her recovery and said she would call me to come over and discuss it. I am excited about the prospect. I am also going to send a copy to Rabbi Scheinberg in San Antonio and also give our local rabbi a copy. It is not 60 people, but here a little there a little, a few at a time. BTW, I must say that I totally agree with Ronnie about RAF.even if I am your sister. I will never forget the impact that the first book had on my life years ago when I was going thru all my struggles trying to sort things out. We had already left our church, and were on the Ancient Path, and had started going to Joe's; but I still had a lot of questions. Of course, I still do, but now they are different questions. Knowing me, I will always have questions, but that is okay. I am hoping to soon be able to listen to some of Ross' teachings that I missed the first time around. Love and Blessings, Betty/Elisheva -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/8c15c91d/attachment.html From tposborne77 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 12:02:04 2009 From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com (Tracy Osborne) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:02:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Dialogue] The Handwriting on the Wall References: <855590370901281137q4af53f25r2f453ef36d96221a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <612506.47068.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Rev 13:11 ? TracyAnd I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; ________________________________ From: Hanoch Young To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 2:37:21 PM Subject: [Dialogue] The Handwriting on the Wall The Handwriting on the Wall By Brigitte Gabriel During this first month of the New Year 2009, we have seen some stunning developments that, considered together, should leave absolutely no doubt about the rising radical Islamic threat on our doorsteps in America. I have been warning Americans since 2002 about this threat, and that the threat is not just confined to terrorism.? This is not a "war on terror." Terror is a tactic, one of many in the arsenal of radical Islamists. I have been declaring, to anyone who would listen, that Islamists are well on their way to subverting and transforming Europe, and they are riding that wave here to America. I have told my personal story, of how Islamists, step by step, took over my country of Lebanon.? How they used our freedoms and commitment to tolerance and multiculturalism against us to further their ultimate ends.? And how they are using the same strategies and tactics against us in the West. In just the past three weeks we have seen: ? A violent Islamic protest in Britain, where an angry mob shouting "Allahu Akbar" chased ? yes, chased ? dozens of British policemen for blocks.? You must see this video to believe it!? (Please be warned ? there is offensive language and profanity).? Click here to see this shocking video. ? Pro-Hamas, anti-Israel Muslims conducting demonstrations here in America, shouting praises to Hitler for what he did to the Jews, yelling "go back to the ovens," and at times physically attacking counter-protestors. ? The Amsterdam Court of Appeals ordering the prosecution of Dutch parliamentarian Geert Wilders because he has made statements deemed "insulting" and harmful to "the religious esteem" of Muslims. ? Austrian parliamentarian Susanne Winter convicted of "incitement," because of public statements she has made, including the claim that the prophet Mohammed was a pedophile. ? Muslim protest marches in Italy that ended with the protestors, in an obvious act of intimidation, conducting mass prayer vigils directly in front of Catholic places of worship. ? The release of an official U.S. government report stating that Hezbollah is forming terrorist cells here in the U.S. that could become operational. ? The UN continuing to move ahead with the "Durban II" conference and its document that is little more than an anti-Israel rant that calls for suppressing public "defamation" of religion ? notably Islam.? This has run parallel to an effort by the Organization of the Islamic Conference to get the UN Human Rights Commission to pass a resolution condemning public "defamation" of Islam. My friends, the handwriting is clearly on the wall.? Radical Islam is on the march, and it is growing stronger and bolder with every passing day. What elected official in Europe or the UK will now have the courage to speak out against this threat?? Certainly the actions against parliamentarians Wilders and Winter will ultimately have a chilling effect on American elected officials as well. How many more "no-go zones," Muslim enclaves where non-Muslims and even police officers fear to go, will appear in Europe??? We're already seeing such enclaves develop here in America right now.? There's a reason why Dearborn, Michigan, is frequently referred to as "Dearbornistan." What will happen in America when 50,000 ranting, chanting Islamist demonstrators attempt to aggressively back down and chase police officers trying to maintain order??? Will the police use the force necessary?? If they do, we can expect howls from groups like CAIR (the Council on American-Islamic Relations).? How will government officials respond? And if the police back down and run, as they recently did in Britain, what message is being sent to radical Islamists? With the recent announcements by the Obama administration regarding ending the use of certain coercive interrogation practices, will this administration have the courage and use the tools necessary to protect us from Hezbollah, Hamas and al Qaeda terrorist cells in our midst? It is becoming crystal clear that 2009 is going to be a critical year in our effort to roll back the rising tide of Islamofascism.? Over the next several weeks we will be announcing various projects and programs designed so that we can more aggressively and effectively go on the offense against this threat. I am asking you to pay close attention to these announcements when they occur and to participate in every way you can.? We must all come together and ACT! this year, before the worldwide momentum building behind radical Islam becomes too powerful to stop. Always devoted, Brigitte Gabriel ============================================= Women For Israel's Tomorrow? (Women in Green) POB 7352, Jerusalem 91072, Israel Tel: 972-2-624-9887 Fax: 972-2-624-5380 mailto:wfit2 at womeningreen.org http://www.womeningreen.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/1c754d37/attachment.html From tposborne77 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 12:23:40 2009 From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com (Tracy Osborne) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:23:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Dialogue] watch islamic education at work References: <855590370901290434y7c939b47wc761ae66cde0913f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <302906.70722.qm@web51102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Observe the Mark on the Foreheads!! Hanoch, When we were together in Hebron, we were face to face with these people. The clear difference I saw in them was the cloud of darkness upon their faces coming out of their eyes. And that, contrasted with light upon the face of the Jewish people, and the Ephraimites who accompanied us, is a loud testimony in itself. One has the Mark of HaShem and the other, the Mark of the Beast, both in the visible and the invisible. Tracy ________________________________ From: Hanoch Young To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:34:21 AM Subject: [Dialogue] watch islamic education at work YouTube - IDFco12's Channel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/f1419955/attachment.html From tposborne77 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 12:57:29 2009 From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com (Tracy Osborne) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:57:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With ImplantableRFID ChipMakerVeriChip] References: <4980605B.4000803@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <911572.56303.qm@web51111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Shalom Y'all, Interesting along these lines of thinking, 666 equals "multitudes in the name of allah" according to this teacher...something to think about. There are 5 sessions in this teaching. "Is Islam The Beast" ... Watch them all or go straight to #5 for?an explanation of 666. http://www.israelnet.tv/program.html Love & Prayers, Tracy ________________________________ From: Patricia Robbins To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 11:18:23 AM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With ImplantableRFID ChipMakerVeriChip] Beautiful, Joe!!!? (Ozzie translation:? Beaut, Mate!!!) ? I believe that what you are saying?(and I agree totally)?is that spiritually speaking, as we turn from our idolatries to follow HaShem, we erase the "mark of the beast" and receive our Father's mark.? ? I have absolutely no superstitious concerns about chip implantation interfering with the desire of the heart to follow HaShem.??From a godly standpoint, the problem with doing?so arises if?taking the implant actually?entails disobedience to?Torah.??For instance, is?receiving an implant akin to receiving a tattoo?? We are admonished not to receive marks in our flesh:? "You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you."? Leviticus?19:28??? I know that Orthodox Rabbis interpret this to mean, "No tattoos."??I also know that in the ancient Mystery Religions,?adherents would take a tattoo identifying them as belonging to their god.???? ? Like John, I just plan to avoid chip implants.? I don't know if?they could be?considered?a violation of Lev 19:28, but I?do know that?there will always be tyrants hoping to rule the world, and so far as I'm concerned,?chip implants would serve to?make their quest just that much easier!? Though some may consider?my view?a bit paranoid, I've always said, "A little paranoia?will work for ya!"? ? Chiplessly, ? Avigail From: Joe Indomenico Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 8:40 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Microsoft Partners With ImplantableRFID ChipMakerVeriChip] Shalom Chaverim, This is quite a fascinating topic. I think you all agree. Thank you Patty and Avigail for bringing up the subject as seen through the various conspiracy theories. Thank you Hanoch for the laughs regarding the SoS. Did they have horns, goatie beards and pitch forks ? Thank you Tracy for posting my next year's in depth study on the subject. Although very interesting. Thank you John for your candid concerns and honesty. I would like to add that there is absolutely no difference in Biblical language between spiritual and literal , metaphor and fact, heavenly and earthly. A rabbi once told me that - spiritual, metaphor and heavenly are realities as seen from HaShem's perspective. Literal, fact and earthly are realities as perceived by the human perspective. The collision of the infinite( limitless eternity) with the finite( confined by space and time) creates the inner tension as we frail humans grapple with the Divine reality of TRUTH , which is the beginning of HaShem's Holy word. The prophetic word is the unraveling of HaShem's Will as preordained before the creation of the world. ???????? ????? ??????, ????? ??????? ?????? ??????, ?????? ?????? ???????????, ?????? ???????; ????? ?????? ?????????? ???????, ?????? ???????? ??????. 34 Thus saith the LORD, Who giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirreth up the sea, that the waves thereof roar, the LORD of hosts is His name: ???????-???????? ????????? ????????, ??????????--?????-??????; ???? ????? ?????????? ???????????, ???????? ????? ???????--????-?????????.? {?} 35 If these ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever. {S} ???????? ????? ??????, ???-????????? ???????? ???????????, ??????????? ????????-?????, ????????:? ????-????? ??????? ??????-????? ??????????, ???-????-?????? ??????--?????-??????.? {?} 36 Thus saith the LORD: If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then will I also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 31v 34-36. This is prime example of this spiritual concept. By mentioning the act of creation it can be stated that this spiritual , metaphorical and heavenly reality was present with HaShem from the beginning and became a literal, fact and earthly perception on the 14th of May 1948. So whilst being in gallut and scattered to the four corners of the world without a homeland or national sovereignty, Israel was still a nation from HaShem's perspective. To give extra credence to this hidden mystery was the fact that for the previous 2000 years the sun had risen and set according to ordinances of natural order. Try as they may, the replacement theologians could not spiritualize away this truth. The reality could never change. The human perception could. The human perception became delusional only on the basis that it would not submit to the Will of HaShem. Because they did not love the truth , a deluding spirit would guide them down the path of error, so that they would believe that which was not true. As a once proclaimed Christian, the issue of human and worldly control with all the associated conspiracy theories meant nothing as I failed to keep the first and fourth commandments. Worldly control by the Pharaoh-like tyrants had to be replaced by the Heavenly control of HaShem. Taking on the yoke of Heaven with total submission to the Will of HaShem by the keeping of the mitzvot of His Holy Torah freed me from the slavery of this world. Even though I fall He will raise me up. Baruch HaShem!!! Summing up : The mark of the beast. ???????????????????????????????????????????????? The seal of HaShem. Anti Mashiach. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Mashiach. Anti Torah. ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Torah. Sons of Greece. ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Sons of Tzion. Bondage. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Freedom. Lawlessness. ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Law. Error. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Truth. Disunity. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Unity. Haughtiness. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Humility. Rebellion.??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Submission. Carnal.?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Spiritual. Spiritual and literal coexist in this present dispensation. Our perception is governed by LOVING THE L-RD YOUR G-D WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL AND WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT. FEAR G-D AND GIVE HIM? GLORY FOR THE HOUR OF HIS JUDGMENT HAS ARRIVED. WORSHIP HIM WHO MADE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH AND SEA AND SPRINGS OF WATER. To do otherwise ........ the mark of the beast....... spiritual or literal.......does not matter...... still the same reality. Shalom v'Ahavah Laila Tov JOE. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/fd7039eb/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 13:48:00 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:48:00 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] The Third Jihad - MUST SEE for every American Message-ID: <855590370901291148n6f670b8fpa8f1c3590a4b3a48@mail.gmail.com> A MUST SEE for every American...In the words of the friend that sent this to me, "This is the most impressive, albeit frightening video / movie I have seen recently....." approx. run time: 30min. Watch this film and send it to your friends. It's in English with French subtitles. http://blip.tv/play/AdmXMI6nSg *Hanoch* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/0bcaf309/attachment.html From tposborne77 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 15:35:04 2009 From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com (Tracy Osborne) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:35:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Dialogue] The Third Jihad - MUST SEE for every American References: <855590370901291148n6f670b8fpa8f1c3590a4b3a48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <657506.3832.qm@web51102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thank You Hanoch, for your devoted persistence!!!!!!!!!!!!! ________________________________ From: Hanoch Young To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:48:00 PM Subject: [Dialogue] The Third Jihad - MUST SEE for every American A MUST SEE for every American...In the words of the friend that sent this to me, "This is the most impressive, albeit frightening video / movie I have seen recently....." approx. run time: 30min.?? Watch this film and send it to your friends. It's in English with French subtitles. http://blip.tv/play/AdmXMI6nSg ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Hanoch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/3494af38/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Thu Jan 29 16:40:45 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:40:45 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Defiance: Now a Major Motion Picture In-Reply-To: <855590370901281803h187eed57g1c37bd572fe24341@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090128154964.1D83DFB11619@elabs3.com><302D41DD-9181-4B0A-9001-94D629B3679F@earthlink.net><051001c981ae$06c890f0$1459b2d0$@com> <855590370901281803h187eed57g1c37bd572fe24341@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00e801c98262$a1658280$0400a8c0@marvin> Hey guys and gals, The wife and I went to see this movie last Sunday afternoon. It was a very moving picture. I know these things happened in history but I still cannot get my mind wrapped around how people can treat there fellow man in such a way. With out giving the movie away, there is a little tension between the two older brothers, they had different opinions about how to deal with the situation and how they were going to survive. Something I thought, I noticed in the movie... although the brothers did not seem to be very religious in the beginning as things went along, they seem to show / have more faith (emunah). Hanoch, If you see the movie and think about it, come back and give us a good Jewish understanding of emunah in the context of that movie and those events. There were 75 - 100 people in the theatre when the movie ended it was quite as could be. No one moved for like 5 seconds. Then as people stood, to leave no one spoke, not a sound. I wondered if there was anyone in the crowd that understood what we understand. I don't buy many movie's on DVD, but this will be one I'm going to get. Well worth the time. marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:04 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Fwd: Defiance: Now a Major Motion Picture No, it's about the Bielski brothers who set up a large Partisan camp in Belarus, and saved approximately 1,200 Jews. They did amazing things... Hanoch On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:14 PM, James Tabor wrote: No, but I know of several books/films that were made on story of the resistance at Sobibor in 1943. I wonder if this has that same setting. There was a book by Thomas Blat called They Fought Back. I definitely want to see this and probably get the book for sure for the United Israel/Horowitz library. James On Jan 28, 2009, at 8:07 PM, Patty wrote: Hey James, Dave and I wanted to see this - have you seen/read it? Patty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of James Tabor Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 8:06 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Defiance: Now a Major Motion Picture Something to definitely watch for and/or read...James This message contains graphics. If you do not see graphics, please click here . Oxford University Press Now a Major Motion Picture Starring Daniel Craig and Liev Schreiber Defiance Key Features: . Reconstructs a poignant and unforgettable story . Tec offers penetrating insight into the group's commander, Tuvia Bielski . Tec, a Holocaust survivor, draws on wide-ranging research and never-before- published interviews with surviving partisans Defiance Nechama Tec ISBN: 9780195376852 Paperback, January 2009, 416 pp. List Price:$14.95 Buy Now The prevailing image of European Jews during the Holocaust is one of helpless victims, but in fact many Jews struggled against the terrors of the Third Reich. In Defiance, Nechama Tec offers a riveting history of one such group, a forest community in western Belorussia that would number more than 1,200 Jews by 1944-the largest armed rescue operation of Jews by Jews in World War II. Tec reconstructs for the first time the amazing details of how these partisans and their families-hungry, exposed to the harsh winter weather-managed not only to survive, but to offer protection to all Jewish fugitives who could find their way to them. Tec brings to light the untold story of Bielski's struggle as a partisan who lost his parents, wife, and two brothers to the Nazis, yet never wavered in his conviction that it was more important to save one Jew than to kill twenty Germans. Review: "Excellent." -David Denby, The New Yorker About the Author: Nechama Tec is Professor of Sociology at the University of Connecticut, Stamford. She is the author of six books, including In the Lion's Den: The Life of Oswald Rufeisen, the winner of the 1990 Christopher Award, When Light Pierced the Darkness, and Dry Tears, a memoir of her experiences during the years of the Nazi occupation of Poland. Also Recommended In the Lion's Den In the Lion's Den List: $14.95 Hidden Children of the Holocaust Hidden Children of the Holocaust List: $24.95 Sale: $19.96 Crossing Hitler Crossing Hitler List: $27.95 Oxford University Press | 198 Madison Avenue | New York, NY 10016 Update Your Preferences | Unsubscribe | Customer Service Oxford University Press will never sell, rent, or trade your email address to other companies. To unsubscribe or update your subscription preferences, please follow the links above. _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/fcb6a581/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 21:59:28 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:59:28 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] 'How I Survived Gaza' Message-ID: <855590370901291959r30421bbase39d2dd5c87cc3df@mail.gmail.com> January 28, 2009 *How I Survived Gaza* By Joshua Eastman Submit a Comment E-Mail This Print This RSS Feed [image: image] Eleven days ago today, Israel terminated an operation after having reached a state of cease-fire with a cowardly and murderous foe. We pulled out of Gaza. I pulled out of Gaza. We were first called up on a Shabbat, right at the end of ten months of regular training and an extra two months of specialized training with the whole brigade in the Golan Heights. We were told that Israel was preparing for a possible conflict with Gaza. We were allowed to stay in phone contact at the beginning, and we listened for news from our families, always better informed than the army. We heard the bombs falling near the Strip, and readied our gear. And we waited. And waited. Every day another rumor came in. "We're going today" "We're going today" We waited a week. We were sent the following Shabbat. The first time we came back out, after twenty four hours, our unit was under the impression that all the other units would be coming out as well. A little R & R, and then back in. But only our soldiers arrived at the base. The others were in till the very end. The next two weeks we were deployed over and over again into neighborhoods whose names are ingrained as if from childhood memory, and we were told to ready ourselves for the final operational steps the army was preparing. Thank God, for us, those steps never came. After fighting through less densely packed urban neighborhoods and villages, as an army, we never had to enter the tightly packed urban nightmares of the inner cities. "The world is already trying to fault Israel, telling everyone that civilians died, and Israelis murdered. But I was there. I saw the twelve year olds with missiles and RPGs strapped to their backs. We watched in anger as our bombs, so as not to fall on large civilian centers, fell on our own troops." A cease-fire was signed, and we pulled out with hatches open on our vehicles, waving flags and flashing the peace symbol even though no one was there to photograph it. After all, we were one of hundreds of squads returning. There was no way to record every tank and APC that came home. But it was cathartic, and made it official. I saw many things. I heard things. While I was in Gaza. I saw soldiers who were virulently anti-religious don tzitit under their bullet-proof armor. As one soldier said, "Why do I put it on now, if I never wore it before? When do you ask your father for help? When you need it." I saw heroes. Boys just out of high-school, young men who should have been playing sports or starting families or going to college, loading weapons and placing armor on their fragile frames, securing helmets, and checking gear. They suppressed the fear that lurked at the edges of their minds, and as a unit swept across the fence and planted unwavering lines of boots in the soil of Gaza. I watched them fight like grown men against evil. The first night we went in, we were unable to wear bullet-proof armor in my unit, and had to settle for flak vests (we couldn't wear armor when we first went in because, due to the weight we were carrying, it would have hampered our movements, creating a safety hazard). My young commander, who had an easy load to carry that wouldn't interfere with his vest, still left without bulletproof armor. "If my men don't, I don't". I told him the next day, I would have followed him through the entire Arab world if need be, my respect for him was so great. I saw my brave wife, Chana, who came down to volunteer, just to be close to me, braving rockets and missiles, and watched her help soldiers by handing out desperately needed winter gear and food. I watched Chabadniks who came to us every day and inspired the soldiers with song and mitzvot. I saw heroes praying for our safety, and feeding us, and caring for us. I saw pain. Just today, I ran into yet another friend from another unit, who tells me, when asked how he is, "I am fine from the neck down." Sixteen of his friends were injured in a blast on the first night. He lost many more before the end. He is still sweet, still charming, but his laugh is more weary, and his eyes are sadder. Another friend in a different unit lost two-thirds of his whole platoon when a bomb destroyed their house. He says he walked in, and he saw limbs moving or laying still, and bodies unattached to them, hurting, dead. He still hasn't pulled back completely. A former commander of mine died, and a friend lost his arm and use of his legs, and is still in a coma. I saw lies. The world is already trying to fault Israel, telling everyone that civilians died, and Israelis murdered. But I was there. My feet were on the ground and I saw the truth. I saw that warnings were given, I saw the enemy that fought us. I saw the twelve year olds with missiles and RPGs strapped to their backs. I saw that it was with sadness and great anger Israeli troops recognized the need to fire on people who crossed the red line, the danger zone which meant they saw us, and knew where we were. Old people mined with bombs, children armed with detonators, tunnels that opened in the ground to swallow our soldiers. I watched my commanders passing out all of our food to the children who were taken prisoner. I received the commands "closed to fire on the right" if our intelligence had reported civilians in the area. I watched us, more often then not, taking cover when supposed civilian positions fired on us from "the right". Yet the world thinks it can bend the truth. We were not allowed to fire on schools. We were told not to loot. We watched in anger as our bombs, so as not to fall on large civilian centers, fell on our own troops, so that we could tell the world we were attempting to scare the enemy while limiting civilian losses. Yet they won't say that in the press. You are the reason we returned. You are the reason I am alive. I saw cowardice. We listened with concern when Hamas threatened to use snipers and bombs on us, to fight us every step of the way with their fifteen thousand man army, and we watched videos of full brigades parading, waving their weapons and threatening Israel. But as we invaded, they fled. They would attack in small groups, hit us with missiles and sniper fire, and then flee. The 'warriors' of Hamas were brave when their rockets fell unanswered on the schools of children and the homes of elderly, but they did not stand when the enemy called them up to answer for their crimes. I saw miracles. Rockets that blazed past our houses, bullets that scarred the outside of windows we were watching from. A unit near ours that was walking in to Gaza had RPGs pass straight between their ranks without hitting a single soldier. Mines that didn't explode, mortar rounds that landed next to friends that didn't explode. RPGs that blazed into the earthen barrier directly in front of our APC, detonating before penetration. The night walk through a neighborhood that wasn't on the map, that was full of snipers and mines according to reports, that we walked through unawares, by accident, without harm or incident. And that was just what we knew. I felt fear. Every time I entered, every time I squeezed the trigger, every time a missile landed nearby, I was struck with fear. It is a deep fear, hard to explain. Your body shivers as if you are frozen to the core. You find yourself staring at the ground, trying to adjust to the ringing in your ears. You freeze, and unless someone slaps you, or you manage to shake yourself, your eyes stay downcast, and you lay numb on the earth, waiting without realizing. Eventually, your training pulls you out and forces you to stay alert, your gun snaps up, and adrenaline masks the fear and hurt. You roll on seemingly fearless, with adrenaline telling you that you are invincible. I have felt weakness. I have felt my supposedly mighty muscles shudder, felt my devastatingly powerful weapon shake in my hands, felt my heart hammer against my armor, felt my soul and mind search for some way to avoid pain and the nightmares that were becoming real. I felt strength. I would have been lost, but for the words of my Rebbe. "Ein od Milvado" There is no one but Him. The mere utterance strengthened limbs, and a surge of faith and hope carried me through the invasion, through the detonations and whistling of ricocheting rounds and falling bombs. For I knew, for once KNEW and understood absolutely that I was in the hands of the greatest general on earth. A veteran of every war and every conflict, the ultimate warrior and defender of His people. I remember the joy that swept through the lines when they said the head commander was entering the field, because of his experience and strategies, everyone felt safer. It reminded me that an even greater Commander had been there all along. I understood the words of Tehilim 147, "Not in the strength of the horse does He desire, and not in the legs of man does He favor. God favors those who fear Him, those who hope for His kindness." My strength had failed me, yet when I begged God to allow me to be a conduit for His strength, to be His shield and a sword for His people, I was able to stand and fight. Those nights, my body was there, but God fought on that field. I am not free of sin, and was by no means worthy of the miracles that befell me. That God aided me; that my entire battalion walked out, against all odds, while every other unit suffered losses, without serious casualty or mental scarring, was a miracle beyond any. That I was able to feel His strength replace mine, a gift for which I was undeserving. My strength lay in the thousands of people who prayed for me, who prayed for the wellbeing of the army, who cried for the return of the fragile and precious Jewish youth who fought like lions where men twice there age would have fled. You are the reason we returned. You are the reason I am alive. You, the people who pray and cry and feel you are not the front lines, are truly the army of Hashem. The IDF, as people should see, is merely the physical arm of what your prayers accomplish. You are the ones in the battle. We are the holding action, delaying the physical evil while you battle to clear the path for Moshiach. Never again will I feel a yeshiva student who learns all day is not brave for not being with us on this field. Because I watched the words and letters that he learned and prayed march ahead of us, thousands deep, and millions strong, absorbing the bullets and metal meant for me. I thank you, humbly, warriors of my heart and faith. You let me come home to my wife. During this war, we received a tremendous outpouring of love and support; letters, donations, food, and clothing. In specific, because I know them, although without diminishing the greatness of all the people I don't know, I want to thank my mother and her tireless blogging efforts, my family for their support and letters, my wife for being brave beyond any woman or man I have ever known. I want to thank Congregation Tiferes Yisroel for remembering an old neighborhood kid, and multiplying that to help all my brothers in uniform. I want to thank all of the community in Baltimore for the davening and love that we felt even in the heart of darkness. I want to thank the little six-year old who wrote, "Dear IDF, I am proud of you." I cried over that letter, my tears running through the pain and stress as we recovered from Gaza. I want to thank the people who donated money for the vests that saved our lives, the people that gave us clothes to warm our bodies, candy to warm our hearts, and letters to warm our souls. You cannot know what one pair of socks, one chocolate bar, or one hastily written sentence can do to save the minds and hearts of your children from despair. I am not as gifted with words as my mother, nor a hero as great as those who marched beside me or filled the air with prayer around me, but I hope from this letter, from my fumbling thoughts you can draw for yourself the love and hope I am trying to convey. I have seen this people, my people, at its best and at its worst. I can see why Redemption will come soon. As a nation, we drew together. Disunity, differences in Kippot or sects fell away, and everyone reached out to help as best they could. No one said, "I have no part" or "This isn't my war". May Hashem see the greatness of His holy, beautiful people, and allow me to sing that old song to my child, with absolute truth and great joy: "I promise, my little one, that this is the last war." *Joshua Eastman made aliyah from Baltimore in 2005. He met his wife, Chana, on a trip back to Baltimore; and the two of them live in Givat Ze'ev. Joshua is currently a full-time soldier in the Golani Brigade of the Israel Defense Forces. When he can get near a computer, he blogs about his life in Israel at "Through Josh-Colored Glasses," http://hashkeofthedevonshire.blogspot.com/ .* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/0b37e858/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 29 22:49:12 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 04:49:12 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Song, "Perfect Place" w/English subtitles In-Reply-To: <855590370901281834x173ea2a8p2ea31c3b20001295@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <013020090449.12049.498286C80001C8F700002F1122218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Most excellent! -- John C. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- This is a great song, with English subtitles (so you can practice your Hebrew!) from Subliminal, who's renowned not only as a performer, but as a Nationalist (which is VERY unusual in that genre of music). It also features Sivan Behnam, who has a fabulous voice. Hanoch Click here: YouTube - Subliminal & Sivan Behnam - Perfect Place - Live (English Su -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090130/4a69a8b5/attachment.html From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com Fri Jan 30 01:54:30 2009 From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:54:30 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Intercessory prayer for rain Message-ID: <200901300754.n0U7sOaX020763@mail382c25.carrierzone.com> Friends, Many have asked what they, as returning Israel, can do now on behalf of Israel. Suffice it to say, that we have individual and collective tasks to do as the first returnees from the Valley of Dry Bones. This is quite a discussion subject with many ramifications, that we may entertain. However, there is one thing we can all do, which does not require any monetary output of any kind. Our first mission is intercessory prayer for rain in the Land. At the present, the drought in Israel is severe. Perhaps this is indicative of the great spiritual drought that our peoples are in "at the end of days." The water ration of 200 gallons per dunam in 2008 has been slashed to 90 gallons per dunam. This is a drastic cut. Prophecies in Hosea speak of blessings in and of the "latter rain." While this can and does refer to the latter rain farmers need for their crops, it can also be a long range prophecy of the "rain of God's holy Spirit" that is to enliven the parched souls of Israel "in the latter days." In any case, rain is symbolic of HaShem's blessing. We will need all that HaShem has. There is a midrash, that says, that "in the last days, the prayers of Yosef will be heard." No doubt, whoever wrote this, must have based his assertions on the prophecies where we are told that the G-d of Israel will turn His face toward us, and He will hear us. It is time to pray incessantly for the rains to come and bless the Land. If you are participating in this task, please let the list know that you have enlisted in this task force. Shabbat Shalom, Steve Mathe "Only Torah, prayer and repentance unifies the tribes of Israel." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090129/3db55c1a/attachment.html From j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net Fri Jan 30 05:47:57 2009 From: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net (Helen Lusk) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 03:47:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Dialogue] Intercessory prayer for rain In-Reply-To: <200901300754.n0U7sOaX020763@mail382c25.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: <780369.18964.qm@web82504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Steve: ? I will join in praying for rain in Israel. ? Kind regards, ? Helen --- On Fri, 1/30/09, Steve Mathe wrote: From: Steve Mathe Subject: [Dialogue] Intercessory prayer for rain To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 2:54 AM Friends, Many have asked what they, as returning Israel, can do now on behalf of Israel.? Suffice it to say, that we have individual and collective tasks to do as the first returnees from the Valley of Dry Bones.? This is quite a discussion subject with many ramifications, that we may entertain. However, there is one thing we can all do, which does not require any monetary output of any kind. Our first mission is intercessory prayer for rain in the Land. At the present, the drought in Israel is severe.? Perhaps this is indicative of the great spiritual drought that our peoples are in "at the end of days." The water ration of 200 gallons per dunam in 2008 has been slashed to 90 gallons per dunam. This is a drastic cut. Prophecies in Hosea speak of blessings in and of the "latter rain."? While this can and does refer to the latter rain farmers need for their crops, it can also be a long range prophecy of the "rain of God's holy Spirit" that is to enliven the parched souls of Israel "in the latter days." In any case, rain is symbolic of HaShem's blessing.? We will need all that HaShem has. There is a midrash, that says, that "in the last days, the prayers of Yosef will be heard."? No doubt, whoever wrote this, must have based his assertions on the prophecies where we are told that the G-d of Israel will turn His face toward us, and He will hear us.? It is time to pray incessantly for the rains to come and bless the Land.? If you are participating in this task, please let the list know that you have enlisted in this task force. Shabbat Shalom, Steve Mathe "Only Torah, prayer and repentance unifies the tribes of Israel." _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090130/c330464f/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Fri Jan 30 07:03:14 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:03:14 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Intercessory prayer for rain In-Reply-To: <200901300754.n0U7sOaX020763@mail382c25.carrierzone.com> References: <200901300754.n0U7sOaX020763@mail382c25.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: Will pray for RAIN, Steve. May our Holy Land be inundated with both physical and spiritual RAIN from HaShem. Wishing all an early Shabbat Shalom, Avigail/Pat Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:54:30 -0800To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.orgFrom: eliasaph at uniteourheart.comSubject: [Dialogue] Intercessory prayer for rain Friends, Many have asked what they, as returning Israel, can do now on behalf of Israel. Suffice it to say, that we have individual and collective tasks to do as the first returnees from the Valley of Dry Bones. This is quite a discussion subject with many ramifications, that we may entertain. However, there is one thing we can all do, which does not require any monetary output of any kind. Our first mission is intercessory prayer for rain in the Land. At the present, the drought in Israel is severe. Perhaps this is indicative of the great spiritual drought that our peoples are in "at the end of days." The water ration of 200 gallons per dunam in 2008 has been slashed to 90 gallons per dunam. This is a drastic cut. Prophecies in Hosea speak of blessings in and of the "latter rain." While this can and does refer to the latter rain farmers need for their crops, it can also be a long range prophecy of the "rain of God's holy Spirit" that is to enliven the parched souls of Israel "in the latter days." In any case, rain is symbolic of HaShem's blessing. We will need all that HaShem has. There is a midrash, that says, that "in the last days, the prayers of Yosef will be heard." No doubt, whoever wrote this, must have based his assertions on the prophecies where we are told that the G-d of Israel will turn His face toward us, and He will hear us. It is time to pray incessantly for the rains to come and bless the Land. If you are participating in this task, please let the list know that you have enlisted in this task force. Shabbat Shalom, Steve Mathe "Only Torah, prayer and repentance unifies the tribes of Israel." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090130/7a63d441/attachment.html From shdennis at rogers.com Fri Jan 30 08:54:28 2009 From: shdennis at rogers.com (Stephen & Sharon) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:54:28 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] more thoughts on the Verichip Message-ID: <01A51AEFDCC74E478D24A69B7ACB6191@Beeblebrox> Shalom everyone, The recent dialogue regarding the 'Implantable RFID Verichip' came to mind while I was watching a YouTube video - "The Path to the Final Solution". Here is the link - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=FDVaJXmCIjk&feature=related. At around the 5.20min mark he speaks about the 'National I.D. registration' as a 'way to locate and track your kind'. Of course, information can be (and is) gathered in many ways, but the Verichip would probably be the most effective. Maybe we should stay 'chipless in Zion'! As I watched this video clip, I again wondered how the majority are incapable of assessing the current world situation with any measure of reality or truth. The following segment of a 1985 interview with Ex-KGB officer Uri Bezmenov explains some of the reasons why: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpODYhnPEo&feature=related. (There are about 9 segments to this interview, which are worth watching if you have the time.) Basically, he outlines how the process of demoralization (corrupting and undermining of morals) effectively renders a civilization unable to comprehend truth. "Facts mean nothing to him, and exposure to true information does not matter anymore". While he was speaking of the Communist agenda, the parallels with today's radicalized Islam are obvious, with differing ideologies once again making strange bedfellows. Isa 59:14,15a 'Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands afar off; for truth has fallen in the public squares, and uprightness cannot enter. Truth is lacking, and he who departs from evil makes himself a prey...' Sharon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090130/84a200f6/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Fri Jan 30 10:05:14 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:05:14 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] more thoughts on the Verichip In-Reply-To: <01A51AEFDCC74E478D24A69B7ACB6191@Beeblebrox> References: <01A51AEFDCC74E478D24A69B7ACB6191@Beeblebrox> Message-ID: This is very enlightening, Sharon. Thank you so much for passing it on. Am looking forward to watching all the videos. Think you really hit the nail on the head with Isa 59:14-15 quote!!!! With you............. Chipless in Zion, Pat From: shdennis at rogers.comTo: dialogue at rootsoffaith.orgDate: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:54:28 -0400Subject: [Dialogue] more thoughts on the Verichip Shalom everyone, The recent dialogue regarding the 'Implantable RFID Verichip' came to mind while I was watching a YouTube video - "The Path to the Final Solution". Here is the link - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=FDVaJXmCIjk&feature=related. At around the 5.20min mark he speaks about the 'National I.D. registration' as a 'way to locate and track your kind'. Of course, information can be (and is) gathered in many ways, but the Verichip would probably be the most effective. Maybe we should stay 'chipless in Zion'! As I watched this video clip, I again wondered how the majority are incapable of assessing the current world situation with any measure of reality or truth. The following segment of a 1985 interview with Ex-KGB officer Uri Bezmenov explains some of the reasons why: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpODYhnPEo&feature=related. (There are about 9 segments to this interview, which are worth watching if you have the time.) Basically, he outlines how the process of demoralization (corrupting and undermining of morals) effectively renders a civilization unable to comprehend truth. "Facts mean nothing to him, and exposure to true information does not matter anymore". While he was speaking of the Communist agenda, the parallels with today's radicalized Islam are obvious, with differing ideologies once again making strange bedfellows. Isa 59:14,15a 'Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands afar off; for truth has fallen in the public squares, and uprightness cannot enter. Truth is lacking, and he who departs from evil makes himself a prey...' Sharon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090130/77ec4e5c/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Fri Jan 30 10:38:59 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:38:59 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] 'How I Survived Gaza' In-Reply-To: <855590370901291959r30421bbase39d2dd5c87cc3df@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901291959r30421bbase39d2dd5c87cc3df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7B730C88EA07440DB9826250AC4EEDAF@bettylaptop> Thanks, Hanoch, for sending this out. One soldier's story.down to earth and very moving I found it interesting and inspiring that he and his young wife made aliyah from Baltimore in 2005. I would encourage all who have the time to read the entire article, but for those who don't, I have copied and pasted several excepts which were especially riveting to me. There is also his link at the bottom. I checked it out and found it very worthwhile. Elisheva/Betty "The world is already trying to fault Israel, telling everyone that civilians died, and Israelis murdered. But I was there. I saw the twelve year olds with missiles and RPGs strapped to their backs. We watched in anger as our bombs, so as not to fall on large civilian centers, fell on our own troops." A cease-fire was signed, and we pulled out with hatches open on our vehicles, waving flags and flashing the peace symbol even though no one was there to photograph it. After all, we were one of hundreds of squads returning. There was no way to record every tank and APC that came home. But it was cathartic, and made it official. I saw many things. I heard things. While I was in Gaza. I saw soldiers who were virulently anti-religious don tzitit under their bullet-proof armor. As one soldier said, "Why do I put it on now, if I never wore it before? When do you ask your father for help? When you need it." I want to thank the little six-year old who wrote, "Dear IDF, I am proud of you." I cried over that letter, my tears running through the pain and stress as we recovered from Gaza. I want to thank the people who donated money for the vests that saved our lives, the people that gave us clothes to warm our bodies, candy to warm our hearts, and letters to warm our souls. You cannot know what one pair of socks, one chocolate bar, or one hastily written sentence can do to save the minds and hearts of your children from despair. I am not as gifted with words as my mother, nor a hero as great as those who marched beside me or filled the air with prayer around me, but I hope from this letter, from my fumbling thoughts you can draw for yourself the love and hope I am trying to convey. I have seen this people, my people, at its best and at its worst. I can see why Redemption will come soon. As a nation, we drew together. Disunity, differences in Kippot or sects fell away, and everyone reached out to help as best they could. No one said, "I have no part" or "This isn't my war". May Hashem see the greatness of His holy, beautiful people, and allow me to sing that old song to my child, with absolute truth and great joy: "I promise, my little one, that this is the last war." Joshua Eastman made aliyah from Baltimore in 2005. He met his wife, Chana, on a trip back to Baltimore; and the two of them live in Givat Ze'ev. Joshua is currently a full-time soldier in the Golani Brigade of the Israel Defense Forces. When he can get near a computer, he blogs about his life in Israel at "Through Josh-Colored Glasses," http://hashkeofthedevonshire.blogspot.com/ _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:59 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] 'How I Survived Gaza' January 28, 2009 How I Survived Gaza By Joshua Eastman Submit a Comment E-Mail This Print This RSS Feed image Eleven days ago today, Israel terminated an operation after having reached a state of cease-fire with a cowardly and murderous foe. We pulled out of Gaza. I pulled out of Gaza. We were first called up on a Shabbat, right at the end of ten months of regular training and an extra two months of specialized training with the whole brigade in the Golan Heights. We were told that Israel was preparing for a possible conflict with Gaza. We were allowed to stay in phone contact at the beginning, and we listened for news from our families, always better informed than the army. We heard the bombs falling near the Strip, and readied our gear. And we waited. And waited. Every day another rumor came in. "We're going today" "We're going today" We waited a week. We were sent the following Shabbat. The first time we came back out, after twenty four hours, our unit was under the impression that all the other units would be coming out as well. A little R & R, and then back in. But only our soldiers arrived at the base. The others were in till the very end. The next two weeks we were deployed over and over again into neighborhoods whose names are ingrained as if from childhood memory, and we were told to ready ourselves for the final operational steps the army was preparing. Thank God, for us, those steps never came. After fighting through less densely packed urban neighborhoods and villages, as an army, we never had to enter the tightly packed urban nightmares of the inner cities. "The world is already trying to fault Israel, telling everyone that civilians died, and Israelis murdered. But I was there. I saw the twelve year olds with missiles and RPGs strapped to their backs. We watched in anger as our bombs, so as not to fall on large civilian centers, fell on our own troops." A cease-fire was signed, and we pulled out with hatches open on our vehicles, waving flags and flashing the peace symbol even though no one was there to photograph it. After all, we were one of hundreds of squads returning. There was no way to record every tank and APC that came home. But it was cathartic, and made it official. I saw many things. I heard things. While I was in Gaza. I saw soldiers who were virulently anti-religious don tzitit under their bullet-proof armor. As one soldier said, "Why do I put it on now, if I never wore it before? When do you ask your father for help? When you need it." I saw heroes. Boys just out of high-school, young men who should have been playing sports or starting families or going to college, loading weapons and placing armor on their fragile frames, securing helmets, and checking gear. They suppressed the fear that lurked at the edges of their minds, and as a unit swept across the fence and planted unwavering lines of boots in the soil of Gaza. I watched them fight like grown men against evil. The first night we went in, we were unable to wear bullet-proof armor in my unit, and had to settle for flak vests (we couldn't wear armor when we first went in because, due to the weight we were carrying, it would have hampered our movements, creating a safety hazard). My young commander, who had an easy load to carry that wouldn't interfere with his vest, still left without bulletproof armor. "If my men don't, I don't". I told him the next day, I would have followed him through the entire Arab world if need be, my respect for him was so great. I saw my brave wife, Chana, who came down to volunteer, just to be close to me, braving rockets and missiles, and watched her help soldiers by handing out desperately needed winter gear and food. I watched Chabadniks who came to us every day and inspired the soldiers with song and mitzvot. I saw heroes praying for our safety, and feeding us, and caring for us. I saw pain. Just today, I ran into yet another friend from another unit, who tells me, when asked how he is, "I am fine from the neck down." Sixteen of his friends were injured in a blast on the first night. He lost many more before the end. He is still sweet, still charming, but his laugh is more weary, and his eyes are sadder. Another friend in a different unit lost two-thirds of his whole platoon when a bomb destroyed their house. He says he walked in, and he saw limbs moving or laying still, and bodies unattached to them, hurting, dead. He still hasn't pulled back completely. A former commander of mine died, and a friend lost his arm and use of his legs, and is still in a coma. I saw lies. The world is already trying to fault Israel, telling everyone that civilians died, and Israelis murdered. But I was there. My feet were on the ground and I saw the truth. I saw that warnings were given, I saw the enemy that fought us. I saw the twelve year olds with missiles and RPGs strapped to their backs. I saw that it was with sadness and great anger Israeli troops recognized the need to fire on people who crossed the red line, the danger zone which meant they saw us, and knew where we were. Old people mined with bombs, children armed with detonators, tunnels that opened in the ground to swallow our soldiers. I watched my commanders passing out all of our food to the children who were taken prisoner. I received the commands "closed to fire on the right" if our intelligence had reported civilians in the area. I watched us, more often then not, taking cover when supposed civilian positions fired on us from "the right". Yet the world thinks it can bend the truth. We were not allowed to fire on schools. We were told not to loot. We watched in anger as our bombs, so as not to fall on large civilian centers, fell on our own troops, so that we could tell the world we were attempting to scare the enemy while limiting civilian losses. Yet they won't say that in the press. You are the reason we returned. You are the reason I am alive. I saw cowardice. We listened with concern when Hamas threatened to use snipers and bombs on us, to fight us every step of the way with their fifteen thousand man army, and we watched videos of full brigades parading, waving their weapons and threatening Israel. But as we invaded, they fled. They would attack in small groups, hit us with missiles and sniper fire, and then flee. The 'warriors' of Hamas were brave when their rockets fell unanswered on the schools of children and the homes of elderly, but they did not stand when the enemy called them up to answer for their crimes. I saw miracles. Rockets that blazed past our houses, bullets that scarred the outside of windows we were watching from. A unit near ours that was walking in to Gaza had RPGs pass straight between their ranks without hitting a single soldier. Mines that didn't explode, mortar rounds that landed next to friends that didn't explode. RPGs that blazed into the earthen barrier directly in front of our APC, detonating before penetration. The night walk through a neighborhood that wasn't on the map, that was full of snipers and mines according to reports, that we walked through unawares, by accident, without harm or incident. And that was just what we knew. I felt fear. Every time I entered, every time I squeezed the trigger, every time a missile landed nearby, I was struck with fear. It is a deep fear, hard to explain. Your body shivers as if you are frozen to the core. You find yourself staring at the ground, trying to adjust to the ringing in your ears. You freeze, and unless someone slaps you, or you manage to shake yourself, your eyes stay downcast, and you lay numb on the earth, waiting without realizing. Eventually, your training pulls you out and forces you to stay alert, your gun snaps up, and adrenaline masks the fear and hurt. You roll on seemingly fearless, with adrenaline telling you that you are invincible. I have felt weakness. I have felt my supposedly mighty muscles shudder, felt my devastatingly powerful weapon shake in my hands, felt my heart hammer against my armor, felt my soul and mind search for some way to avoid pain and the nightmares that were becoming real. I felt strength. I would have been lost, but for the words of my Rebbe. "Ein od Milvado" There is no one but Him. The mere utterance strengthened limbs, and a surge of faith and hope carried me through the invasion, through the detonations and whistling of ricocheting rounds and falling bombs. For I knew, for once KNEW and understood absolutely that I was in the hands of the greatest general on earth. A veteran of every war and every conflict, the ultimate warrior and defender of His people. I remember the joy that swept through the lines when they said the head commander was entering the field, because of his experience and strategies, everyone felt safer. It reminded me that an even greater Commander had been there all along. I understood the words of Tehilim 147, "Not in the strength of the horse does He desire, and not in the legs of man does He favor. God favors those who fear Him, those who hope for His kindness." My strength had failed me, yet when I begged God to allow me to be a conduit for His strength, to be His shield and a sword for His people, I was able to stand and fight. Those nights, my body was there, but God fought on that field. I am not free of sin, and was by no means worthy of the miracles that befell me. That God aided me; that my entire battalion walked out, against all odds, while every other unit suffered losses, without serious casualty or mental scarring, was a miracle beyond any. That I was able to feel His strength replace mine, a gift for which I was undeserving. My strength lay in the thousands of people who prayed for me, who prayed for the wellbeing of the army, who cried for the return of the fragile and precious Jewish youth who fought like lions where men twice there age would have fled. You are the reason we returned. You are the reason I am alive. You, the people who pray and cry and feel you are not the front lines, are truly the army of Hashem. The IDF, as people should see, is merely the physical arm of what your prayers accomplish. You are the ones in the battle. We are the holding action, delaying the physical evil while you battle to clear the path for Moshiach. Never again will I feel a yeshiva student who learns all day is not brave for not being with us on this field. Because I watched the words and letters that he learned and prayed march ahead of us, thousands deep, and millions strong, absorbing the bullets and metal meant for me. I thank you, humbly, warriors of my heart and faith. You let me come home to my wife. During this war, we received a tremendous outpouring of love and support; letters, donations, food, and clothing. In specific, because I know them, although without diminishing the greatness of all the people I don't know, I want to thank my mother and her tireless blogging efforts, my family for their support and letters, my wife for being brave beyond any woman or man I have ever known. I want to thank Congregation Tiferes Yisroel for remembering an old neighborhood kid, and multiplying that to help all my brothers in uniform. I want to thank all of the community in Baltimore for the davening and love that we felt even in the heart of darkness. I want to thank the little six-year old who wrote, "Dear IDF, I am proud of you." I cried over that letter, my tears running through the pain and stress as we recovered from Gaza. I want to thank the people who donated money for the vests that saved our lives, the people that gave us clothes to warm our bodies, candy to warm our hearts, and letters to warm our souls. You cannot know what one pair of socks, one chocolate bar, or one hastily written sentence can do to save the minds and hearts of your children from despair. I am not as gifted with words as my mother, nor a hero as great as those who marched beside me or filled the air with prayer around me, but I hope from this letter, from my fumbling thoughts you can draw for yourself the love and hope I am trying to convey. I have seen this people, my people, at its best and at its worst. I can see why Redemption will come soon. As a nation, we drew together. Disunity, differences in Kippot or sects fell away, and everyone reached out to help as best they could. No one said, "I have no part" or "This isn't my war". May Hashem see the greatness of His holy, beautiful people, and allow me to sing that old song to my child, with absolute truth and great joy: "I promise, my little one, that this is the last war." Joshua Eastman made aliyah from Baltimore in 2005. He met his wife, Chana, on a trip back to Baltimore; and the two of them live in Givat Ze'ev. Joshua is currently a full-time soldier in the Golani Brigade of the Israel Defense Forces. When he can get near a computer, he blogs about his life in Israel at "Through Josh-Colored Glasses," http://hashkeofthedevonshire.blogspot.com/. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090130/e011142e/attachment.html From shdennis at rogers.com Fri Jan 30 11:20:28 2009 From: shdennis at rogers.com (Stephen & Sharon) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:20:28 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] more thoughts on the Verichip In-Reply-To: References: <01A51AEFDCC74E478D24A69B7ACB6191@Beeblebrox> Message-ID: <4C7C0E658C7F400CAC27D04707CB42EB@Beeblebrox> Thanks Pat. I just wanted to also clarify that I strongly believe that 'torah- lessness' is the true danger, one that destroys the soul, and as Joe so richly expounded upon, the spiritual mark of the anti-Mashiach. The enemies of haShem may plan to destroy His people, but they can never truly take anything away from one who has His seal. Shabbat Shalom! ----- Original Message ----- From: patricia robbins To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 12:05 PM Subject: RE: [Dialogue] more thoughts on the Verichip This is very enlightening, Sharon. Thank you so much for passing it on. Am looking forward to watching all the videos. Think you really hit the nail on the head with Isa 59:14-15 quote!!!! With you............. Chipless in Zion, Pat ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: shdennis at rogers.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:54:28 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] more thoughts on the Verichip Shalom everyone, The recent dialogue regarding the 'Implantable RFID Verichip' came to mind while I was watching a YouTube video - "The Path to the Final Solution". Here is the link - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=FDVaJXmCIjk&feature=related. At around the 5.20min mark he speaks about the 'National I.D. registration' as a 'way to locate and track your kind'. Of course, information can be (and is) gathered in many ways, but the Verichip would probably be the most effective. Maybe we should stay 'chipless in Zion'! As I watched this video clip, I again wondered how the majority are incapable of assessing the current world situation with any measure of reality or truth. The following segment of a 1985 interview with Ex-KGB officer Uri Bezmenov explains some of the reasons why: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpODYhnPEo&feature=related. (There are about 9 segments to this interview, which are worth watching if you have the time.) Basically, he outlines how the process of demoralization (corrupting and undermining of morals) effectively renders a civilization unable to comprehend truth. "Facts mean nothing to him, and exposure to true information does not matter anymore". While he was speaking of the Communist agenda, the parallels with today's radicalized Islam are obvious, with differing ideologies once again making strange bedfellows. Isa 59:14,15a 'Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands afar off; for truth has fallen in the public squares, and uprightness cannot enter. Truth is lacking, and he who departs from evil makes himself a prey...' Sharon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090130/6146b3da/attachment.html From tposborne77 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 30 11:53:20 2009 From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com (Tracy Osborne) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:53:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Dialogue] Intercessory prayer for rain References: <200901300754.n0U7sOaX020763@mail382c25.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: <274161.68995.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thank you Steve for the Call to prayer. I set my heart to pray for both kinds of rain on our Land and our People. Love & Prayers, Tracy ________________________________ From: Steve Mathe To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:54:30 AM Subject: [Dialogue] Intercessory prayer for rain Friends, Many have asked what they, as returning Israel, can do now on behalf of Israel.? Suffice it to say, that we have individual and collective tasks to do as the first returnees from the Valley of Dry Bones.? This is quite a discussion subject with many ramifications, that we may entertain. However, there is one thing we can all do, which does not require any monetary output of any kind. Our first mission is intercessory prayer for rain in the Land. At the present, the drought in Israel is severe.? Perhaps this is indicative of the great spiritual drought that our peoples are in "at the end of days." The water ration of 200 gallons per dunam in 2008 has been slashed to 90 gallons per dunam. This is a drastic cut. Prophecies in Hosea speak of blessings in and of the "latter rain."? While this can and does refer to the latter rain farmers need for their crops, it can also be a long range prophecy of the "rain of God's holy Spirit" that is to enliven the parched souls of Israel "in the latter days." In any case, rain is symbolic of HaShem's blessing.? We will need all that HaShem has. There is a midrash, that says, that "in the last days, the prayers of Yosef will be heard."? No doubt, whoever wrote this, must have based his assertions on the prophecies where we are told that the G-d of Israel will turn His face toward us, and He will hear us.? It is time to pray incessantly for the rains to come and bless the Land.? If you are participating in this task, please let the list know that you have enlisted in this task force. Shabbat Shalom, Steve Mathe "Only Torah, prayer and repentance unifies the tribes of Israel." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090130/d322146a/attachment.html From bkgivin at charter.net Fri Jan 30 13:32:28 2009 From: bkgivin at charter.net (Betty Givin) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:32:28 -0600 Subject: [Dialogue] Intercessory prayer for rain In-Reply-To: <274161.68995.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <200901300754.n0U7sOaX020763@mail382c25.carrierzone.com> <274161.68995.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9E816F4C32E845BAAD3FBC874DC6E2F1@bettylaptop> Yes, Steve, thank you. I too am joining in the prayer for both kinds of rain. The middle portion of the Shema comes to mind here.Shabbat Shalom to all! "And it will come to pass if you continually harken to My commandments that I command you today, to love HaShem you G-d with all your heart and with all your soul - then I will provide rain for your land in its proper time, the early and the late rains, that you may gather in your grain, your wine and your oil. I will provide grass in your field for your cattle and you will eat and be satisfied. Beware lest your heart be seduced and your turn astray and serve gods of others and bow to them, Then the wrath of HaShem will blaze against you. He will restrain the heavens so there will be no rain and the ground will not yield its produce. And you will swiftly be banished from the goodly land which HaShem gives you. Place these words of Mine upon your heart and upon your soul; bind them as a sign upon your arm and as tefellin between your eyes. Teach them to your children, to discuss them, while you sit in your home, while you walk on the way, when you retire and when you arise. And write them upon the doorposts of your house and upon your gates. In order to prolong your days and the days of the children upon the ground that HaShem has sworn to your ancestors to give them, like the days of the heavens on the earth." Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Osborne Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:53 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Intercessory prayer for rain Thank you Steve for the Call to prayer. I set my heart to pray for both kinds of rain on our Land and our People. Love & Prayers, Tracy _____ From: Steve Mathe To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:54:30 AM Subject: [Dialogue] Intercessory prayer for rain Friends, Many have asked what they, as returning Israel, can do now on behalf of Israel. Suffice it to say, that we have individual and collective tasks to do as the first returnees from the Valley of Dry Bones. This is quite a discussion subject with many ramifications, that we may entertain. However, there is one thing we can all do, which does not require any monetary output of any kind. Our first mission is intercessory prayer for rain in the Land. At the present, the drought in Israel is severe. Perhaps this is indicative of the great spiritual drought that our peoples are in "at the end of days." The water ration of 200 gallons per dunam in 2008 has been slashed to 90 gallons per dunam. This is a drastic cut. Prophecies in Hosea speak of blessings in and of the "latter rain." While this can and does refer to the latter rain farmers need for their crops, it can also be a long range prophecy of the "rain of God's holy Spirit" that is to enliven the parched souls of Israel "in the latter days." In any case, rain is symbolic of HaShem's blessing. We will need all that HaShem has. There is a midrash, that says, that "in the last days, the prayers of Yosef will be heard." No doubt, whoever wrote this, must have based his assertions on the prophecies where we are told that the G-d of Israel will turn His face toward us, and He will hear us. It is time to pray incessantly for the rains to come and bless the Land. If you are participating in this task, please let the list know that you have enlisted in this task force. Shabbat Shalom, Steve Mathe "Only Torah, prayer and repentance unifies the tribes of Israel." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090130/8644481e/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Fri Jan 30 16:34:35 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia Robbins) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:34:35 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] more thoughts on the Verichip In-Reply-To: <4C7C0E658C7F400CAC27D04707CB42EB@Beeblebrox> References: <01A51AEFDCC74E478D24A69B7ACB6191@Beeblebrox> <4C7C0E658C7F400CAC27D04707CB42EB@Beeblebrox> Message-ID: Amen! Amen!!! Shabbat Shalom, Pat From: Stephen & Sharon Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 12:20 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] more thoughts on the Verichip Thanks Pat. I just wanted to also clarify that I strongly believe that 'torah- lessness' is the true danger, one that destroys the soul, and as Joe so richly expounded upon, the spiritual mark of the anti-Mashiach. The enemies of haShem may plan to destroy His people, but they can never truly take anything away from one who has His seal. Shabbat Shalom! ----- Original Message ----- From: patricia robbins To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 12:05 PM Subject: RE: [Dialogue] more thoughts on the Verichip This is very enlightening, Sharon. Thank you so much for passing it on. Am looking forward to watching all the videos. Think you really hit the nail on the head with Isa 59:14-15 quote!!!! With you............. Chipless in Zion, Pat ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: shdennis at rogers.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:54:28 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] more thoughts on the Verichip Shalom everyone, The recent dialogue regarding the 'Implantable RFID Verichip' came to mind while I was watching a YouTube video - "The Path to the Final Solution". Here is the link - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=FDVaJXmCIjk&feature=related. At around the 5.20min mark he speaks about the 'National I.D. registration' as a 'way to locate and track your kind'. Of course, information can be (and is) gathered in many ways, but the Verichip would probably be the most effective. Maybe we should stay 'chipless in Zion'! As I watched this video clip, I again wondered how the majority are incapable of assessing the current world situation with any measure of reality or truth. The following segment of a 1985 interview with Ex-KGB officer Uri Bezmenov explains some of the reasons why: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpODYhnPEo&feature=related. (There are about 9 segments to this interview, which are worth watching if you have the time.) Basically, he outlines how the process of demoralization (corrupting and undermining of morals) effectively renders a civilization unable to comprehend truth. "Facts mean nothing to him, and exposure to true information does not matter anymore". While he was speaking of the Communist agenda, the parallels with today's radicalized Islam are obvious, with differing ideologies once again making strange bedfellows. Isa 59:14,15a 'Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands afar off; for truth has fallen in the public squares, and uprightness cannot enter. Truth is lacking, and he who departs from evil makes himself a prey...' Sharon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090130/8a9fd3e3/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jan 31 17:42:51 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 09:42:51 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Intercessory prayer for rain] Message-ID: <4984E1FB.9050506@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090201/a5f8c193/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Steve Mathe Subject: [Dialogue] Intercessory prayer for rain Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:54:30 -0800 Size: 7476 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090201/a5f8c193/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jan 31 18:03:58 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:03:58 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] The Third Jihad - MUST SEE for every American] Message-ID: <4984E6EE.1070608@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090201/8f4cd35e/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Hanoch Young Subject: [Dialogue] The Third Jihad - MUST SEE for every American Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:48:00 -0800 Size: 5869 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090201/8f4cd35e/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jan 31 18:10:05 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:10:05 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Den Danske Forening Message-ID: <4984E85D.2010508@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090201/4ceb794e/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 21:10:10 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:10:10 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] 'The Path to the Final Solution' Message-ID: <855590370901311910m76452562p8470ccba95bd9573@mail.gmail.com> Shavua tov to all, This is another video that MUST be seen. Not fun, but very, very important. * Hanoch* ** Click here: The Path To The Final Solution - The Bible Codes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090131/4f80bfe4/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 21:23:37 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:23:37 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Defiance: Now a Major Motion Picture In-Reply-To: <00e801c98262$a1658280$0400a8c0@marvin> References: <20090128154964.1D83DFB11619@elabs3.com> <302D41DD-9181-4B0A-9001-94D629B3679F@earthlink.net> <051001c981ae$06c890f0$1459b2d0$@com> <855590370901281803h187eed57g1c37bd572fe24341@mail.gmail.com> <00e801c98262$a1658280$0400a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <855590370901311923x69f61746i7f213f218eb8d7c9@mail.gmail.com> Hey Marvin, I am hoping, G-d willing to go to see it tomorrow evening. Having read about the Bielski brothers, and seen a documentary about them, I am very interested to see how it's portrayed Hollywood style. I'll gladly share my impressions with you - Take care, * Hanoch * On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mhyde wrote: > Hey guys and gals, > > > > The wife and I went to see this movie last Sunday afternoon. It was a very > moving picture. I know these things happened in history but I still cannot > get my mind wrapped around how people can treat there fellow man in such a > way. With out giving the movie away, there is a little tension between the > two older brothers, they had different opinions about how to deal with the > situation and how they were going to survive. Something I thought, I > noticed in the movie?.. although the brothers did not seem to be very > religious in the beginning as things went along, they seem to show / have > more faith (emunah). Hanoch, If you see the movie and think about it, come > back and give us a good Jewish understanding of emunah in the context of > that movie and those events. > > > > There were 75 ? 100 people in the theatre when the movie ended it was quite > as could be. No one moved for like 5 seconds. Then as people stood, to leave > no one spoke, not a sound. I wondered if there was anyone in the crowd that > understood what we understand. I don't buy many movie's on DVD, but this > will be one I'm going to get. Well worth the time. > > > > marvin > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *Hanoch Young > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:04 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] Fwd: Defiance: Now a Major Motion Picture > > > > No, it's about the Bielski brothers who set up a large Partisan camp in > Belarus, and saved approximately 1,200 Jews. They did amazing things... > > > > * Hanoch* > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:14 PM, James Tabor > wrote: > > No, but I know of several books/films that were made on story of the > resistance at Sobibor in 1943. I wonder if this has that same setting. There > was a book by Thomas Blat called They Fought Back. I definitely want to see > this and probably get the book for sure for the United Israel/Horowitz > library. > > > > James > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2009, at 8:07 PM, Patty wrote: > > > > Hey James, > > > > Dave and I wanted to see this ? have you seen/read it? > > > > Patty > > > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [ > mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > ] *On Behalf Of *James Tabor > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 28, 2009 8:06 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Dialogue] Fwd: Defiance: Now a Major Motion Picture > > > > > > Something to definitely watch for and/or read...James > > > > > > This message contains graphics. If you do not see graphics, please click > here > . > > [image: Oxford University Press] > > > > > > *Now a Major Motion Picture Starring Daniel Craig and Liev Schreiber* > > [image: Defiance] > > > > *Key Features:* > > ? Reconstructs a poignant and unforgettable story > > ? Tec offers penetrating insight > into the group's commander, Tuvia Bielski > > ? Tec, a Holocaust survivor, > draws on wide-ranging > research and never-before- published interviews with surviving > partisans > > > > *Defiance > * > *Nechama Tec * > ISBN: 9780195376852 > Paperback, January 2009, 416 pp. > List Price:$14.95 > [image: Buy Now] > > The prevailing image of European Jews during the Holocaust is one of > helpless victims, but in fact many Jews struggled against the terrors of the > Third Reich. In*Defiance > *, Nechama Tec offers a riveting history of one such group, a forest > community in western Belorussia that would number more than 1,200 Jews by > 1944?the largest armed rescue operation of Jews by Jews in World War II. > > Tec reconstructs for the first time the amazing details of how these > partisans and their families?hungry, exposed to the harsh winter > weather?managed not only to survive, but to offer protection to all Jewish > fugitives who could find their way to them. Tec brings to light the untold > story of Bielski's struggle as a partisan who lost his parents, wife, and > two brothers to the Nazis, yet never wavered in his conviction that it was > more important to save one Jew than to kill twenty Germans. > > *Review:* > "Excellent." ?David Denby, *The New Yorker* > > *About the Author:* > *Nechama Tec* is Professor of Sociology at the University of Connecticut, > Stamford. She is the author of six books, including *In the Lion's Den: > The Life of Oswald Rufeisen*, the winner of the 1990 Christopher Award, *When > Light Pierced the Darkness*, and *Dry Tears*, a memoir of her experiences > during the years of the Nazi occupation of Poland. > > > > *Also Recommended* > > [image: In the Lion's Den] > *In the > Lion's Den > * > > List: $14.95 > > [image: Hidden Children of the Holocaust] > *Hidden Children of the Holocaust > * > > List: $24.95 > Sale: $19.96 > > [image: Crossing Hitler] > *Crossing Hitler > * > > List: $27.95 > > Oxford University Press | 198 Madison Avenue | New York, NY 10016 > Update Your Preferences > | Unsubscribe > | Customer Service > > Oxford University Press will *never* sell, rent, or trade your email > address to other companies. To unsubscribe or update your subscription > preferences, please follow the links above. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090131/960fc623/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 21:32:39 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:32:39 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] watch islamic education at work In-Reply-To: <302906.70722.qm@web51102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <855590370901290434y7c939b47wc761ae66cde0913f@mail.gmail.com> <302906.70722.qm@web51102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <855590370901311932k5c00c2b4p9200cbd773ae17cf@mail.gmail.com> Hey Bro - Shavua tov...your note brought back the great memories of the time we spent together in Israel. G-d willing, I am looking forward to spending even more time with you, soon. You're absolutely right about those arabs who occupy our Holy City of Hevron, and what was, or wasn't on their faces. You know, in the Dead Sea Scrolls there's mention of the War between 'the Sons of Light vs the Sons of Darkness.' Your note reminded me of *exactly *that terminology... Miss those precious hours together Tracy... * Hanoch* On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Tracy Osborne wrote: > Observe the Mark on the Foreheads!! > > Hanoch, > > When we were together in Hebron, we were face to face with these people. > The clear difference I saw in them was the cloud of darkness upon their > faces coming out of their eyes. And that, contrasted with light upon the > face of the Jewish people, and the Ephraimites who accompanied us, is a loud > testimony in itself. One has the Mark of HaShem and the other, the Mark of > the Beast, both in the visible and the invisible. > > Tracy > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Hanoch Young > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Sent:* Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:34:21 AM > *Subject:* [Dialogue] watch islamic education at work > > YouTube - IDFco12's Channel > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090131/d5c952b8/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 21:38:25 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:38:25 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] At least it's a GREAT picture of Olmert... Message-ID: <855590370901311938t164c2074k94eef7b13b8fcc19@mail.gmail.com> Olmert Agrees to Oust 60,000 Residents of Yehuda and Shomron*January 29, 2009* [image: olmertf.jpg]As he prepares to leave office, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert found time to meet with US Mideast envoy George Mitchell during his first official visit to Israel in the Obama administration. Topping their discussions were issues pertaining to a Gaza ceasefire and related matters but Olmert found time to entertain his high-level guest who is also seeking to advance the White House's agenda vis-?-vis the PA (Palestinian Authority). According to reports, the prime minister signaled Israel's approval to the expulsion of 60,000 of the approximately 250,000 residents of Yehuda and Shomron towards realizing a 'final status' agreement between Israel and the PA. While Olmert already indicated a "massive evacuation" was required in a Rosh Hashanah interview in Yediot Achronot, this marks a step forward towards the implementation of such a move chas v'sholom. Eastern areas of Yerushalayim would fall under PA rule and religious sites would be under an international jurisdiction, promising access to the three major religions. (We see how the promised access has worked regarding Kever Yosef in Shechem and the Shalom Al Yisrael Shul in Yericho, with both having been burned to the ground numerous times and constantly being defiled by PA residents). There will be territorial contiguity for PA residents in Yehuda and Shomron, connecting to Gaza via a network of roadways, including a tunnel system. So-called refugees from 1948 will not be granted a right of return, but in the past, the PA has stated there will be no deal without the return of at least some of these peoples' families. When asked why these matters are not being formulated into a draft agreement, Olmert explained PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) cut ties until following the elections on February 10th. Olmert proudly told Mitchell that he heard senior Bush administration officials' state the current offer "Is the most generous Israeli offer to date towards reaching a settlement". There is much anger in Jerusalem from all the candidates seeking the premiership, realizing the prime minister, who has a limited number of days in office, is seeking to commit the incoming government. (*Yechiel Spira - YWN Israel*) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090131/f22ff32c/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 21:48:19 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:48:19 -0800 Subject: [Dialogue] It really pays to have a muslim ally, right? Message-ID: <855590370901311948g7b076148x2e8fc25d304d9f23@mail.gmail.com> Turkish Leader: Israel is Killing People*January 30, 2009* [image: tpr.jpg]Israel's 'staunch ally' Turkey has shown his true colors since the IDF launched Operation Cast Lead, accusing Jerusalem of "killing innocent people, war crimes" and other terms of endearment. The most recent incident took place on Thursday at the Davos, Switzerland economic conference, during which a red-faced Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan walked out angrily after shouting at President Shimon Peres "Israel is killing people". Mr. Peres used the forum to explain Israel's position, after which Erdogan began responding but was interrupted by a moderator. He angrily shouted at Peres "You are killing people", prompting the president to respond without hesitation, stating "If rockets landed in Istanbul you would have done the same". The two continued the heated verbal exchange until the Turkish leader walked out. Former Norwegian Prime Minister Kjell Magne Bondevik was one of the participants who commented, stating he knows President Peres for many years and explained "I have never seen him respond so passionately, perhaps because Israel was attacked by so many in the forum". Not missing a beat and taking advantage of the situation to take another jab at Israel, Amr Moussa, today the Arab League secretary and a former Egyptian Foreign Minister stated that he understands the Turkish leader's response. The Turkish leader did not back down from his anti-Israel position, telling supporters that everything Peres stated was a lie, rejecting any explanation from Israel to justify launching an offensive against Gaza after enduring eight years of unprovoked rocket-fire. Turkish media reports state that President Peres phoned Erdogan to apologize for the incident. One should be reminded that Israel relies on Turkey to act as an impartial third-party mediator in talks with Damascus, boasting the friendship with the neighboring country which during the Gaza War was among the most vehemently anti-Israel nations, working tenaciously to enlist the international community against Israel. (*Yechiel Spira ? YWN Israel*) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090131/3b26fd8c/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Sat Jan 31 21:53:05 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:53:05 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Word of the Day - Uberveillance In-Reply-To: <855590370901311938t164c2074k94eef7b13b8fcc19@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370901311938t164c2074k94eef7b13b8fcc19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <06dd01c98420$99a3ab70$cceb0250$@com> Humans 'will be implanted with microchips' 14:00 AEST Fri Jan 30 2009 1 day 8 hours 48 minutes ago By Josephine Asher, ninemsn VIEWS: 0 | FLOCKS: 0 | comments0 comments so far This VeriChip microchip contains identity and health information and is embedded under the skin. (AAP) This VeriChip microchip contains identity and health information and is embedded under the skin. (AAP) A protest against microchip implants planned for Alzheimers patients in Florida. (AAP) A protest against microchip implants planned for Alzheimer's patients in Florida. (AAP) _____ Jan 29, 2009 All Australians could be implanted with microchips for tracking and identification within the next two or three generations, a prominent academic says. Michael G Michael from the University of Wollongong's School of Information Systems and Technology, has coined the term "uberveillance" to describe the emerging trend of all-encompassing surveillance. "Uberveillance is not on the outside looking down, but on the inside looking out through a microchip that is embedded in our bodies," Dr Michael told ninemsn. Microchips are commonly implanted into animals to reveal identification details when scanned and similar devices have been used with Alzheimer's patients. US company VeriChip is already using implantable microchips, which store a 16-digit unique identification number, on humans for medical purposes. "Our focus is on high-risk patients, and our product's ability to identify them and their medical records in an emergency," spokesperson Allison Tomek said. "We do not know when or if someone will develop an implantable microchip with GPS technology, but it is not an application we are pursuing." Another form of uberveillance is the use of bracelets worn by dangerous prisoners which use global positioning systems to pinpoint their movements. But Dr Michael said the technology behind uberveillance would eventually lead to a black box small enough to fit on a tiny microchip and implanted in our bodies. This could also allow someone to be located in an emergency or for the identification of corpses after a large scale disaster or terrorist attack. "This black box will then be a witness to our actual movements, words - perhaps even our thoughts --and play a similar role to the black box placed in an aircraft," he said. He also predicted that microchip implants and their infrastructure could eliminate the need for e-passports, e-tags, and secure ID cards. "Microchipping I think will eventually become compulsory in the context of identification within the frame of national security," he said. Although uberveillance was only in its early phases, Dr Michael's wife, Katina Michael - a senior lecturer from UOW's School of Information Systems and Technology - said the ability to track and identify any individual was already possible. "Anyone with a mobile phone can be tracked to 15m now," she said, pointing out that most mobile phone handsets now contained GPS receivers and radio frequency identification (RFID) readers. "The worst scenario is the absolute loss of human rights," she said. Wisconsin, North Dakota and four other states in the US have already outlawed the use of enforced microchipping. "Australia hasn't got specific regulations addressing these applications," she said. "We need to address the potential for misuse by amending privacy laws to ensure personal data protection." Uberveillance has been nominated for Macquarie Dictionary's Word of the Year 2008. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090131/d96ae0fa/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 180 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090131/d96ae0fa/attachment.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 6257 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090131/d96ae0fa/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17831 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090131/d96ae0fa/attachment-0001.jpe From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jan 7 16:37:38 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (Joe Indomenico) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:37:38 -0000 Subject: [Dialogue] CRY THE CHILDREN Message-ID: <49652E85.5060300@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/1b9a6751/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: children.wmv Type: video/x-ms-wmv Size: 1052228 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090107/1b9a6751/attachment.wmv