From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Mon Jun 1 05:41:16 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 06:41:16 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: [UILIST] Men's meeting In-Reply-To: <1c8dbb6e0905311522x623a740fib2cb969d78ea5e54@mail.gmail.com> References: <004d01c9e20a$56b25d50$041717f0$@net> <8C09B585-9924-4CFF-806E-B0FE0AE6E47F@earthlink.net> <1c8dbb6e0905311522x623a740fib2cb969d78ea5e54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: That is a little gold medallion that David Horowitz carried all his life, since 1927, then passed on to me. It has the name YHVH on it. James On May 31, 2009, at 6:22 PM, kim alvarado wrote: > What is that oval shaped thing being held up? > > Kim > > From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 06:54:28 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 07:54:28 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "A Club of Club-Wielding Jews" Message-ID: <855590370906010454v691e4546rb4a6c6eede38d6ec@mail.gmail.com> Boker tov L'Kulam (Good Morning to Everyone) - Usually I post articles that I think people will find interesting or meaningful. The one below is for ME :-) It really speaks to my heart... * Hanoch* ** * 'A club of club-wielding Jews' *by 'Samson's Blinded' Absence of riches is not poverty, and absence of arrogance is not humility. One need not be humble in order to avoid arrogance. Self-respect is a positive attitude. Rabbis emphasized humility for a reason: stiff-necked Jews could be extinguished. Given the weakness of Jews compared to the imperial powers and the host nations of the Diaspora, it seemed to make sense to accept humiliations in order to survive, rather than be killed outright in unequal struggles. Though logical, the argument might not be correct. From the Babylonians to the Germans, hostile nations have almost annihilated weak Jews many times in our history. Desperate resistance could have saved more Jews than humility by deterring the aggressors from pressing too far. In the war of 66-70 C.E. Jews mostly hid from the Romans in town fortresses?a tactic which likely provoked the Romans to further depredations. After the defeat of 135 C.E., when Jews under Bar Kochba fought the Romans valiantly, the victorious Romans left the remaining Jews alone to such an extent that Talmudic rabbis praised Roman justice. Jewish strength in 132-135 allowed for the survival of a larger part of the Jewish nation than when the Jews met their killers with humility. In terms of social evolution, humility cannot be a beneficial trait. Jewish weakness provokes anti-Semitism. Nor were the Jews humble. In fact, they were commanded to be proud. The blue thread in tassels, which every Jew must attach to fringes of his coat, is a symbol of royalty. Only the upper classes wore blue clothes in antiquity, leading the Romans to eventually monopolize the trade in blue pigment. The entire Jewish people were commanded to behave as a royal nation. Ashkenazi rabbis abrogated the requirement for the blue thread on the pretext that the necessary blue pigment was unavailable. Repeated assertions of humility and submission to slavery led the Jews to the gas chambers; why defend something which professes itself lowlier than a worm? God calls Jews his workers, not slaves; that epithet is wildly exaggerated in rabbinical literature. A mob of slaves is easy to lead; the smallest rabbi is like a king compared to the humble slaves Jews profess to be in hundreds of prayers. God doesn't need slaves; Jews must be decent people, conscious of their worth, in order to be the beacon to nations. Rabbis tried to make Jews nice, to make us "more pious than God." Guess what, Jews are not nice. From those who fought under Abraham to those who robbed the Egyptians to those who knocked down the towns of Canaan to Dir Yassin to Kach?the Jews are anything but nice. Jews must serve God and their moral principles zealously, and how could humble people be zealous? Zeal is about certainty of one's right and willingness to establish that right in the Land of Israel. Nice Jews were supposed to talk nice, and rabbis invented the doctrine of evil tongue. What could be further from Judaism? It is the obligation of any Jew to talk bad?very bad?about deviants, and to denounce evildoers. That's regardless of his or her own piety. Judges need not be unblemished and righteous in order to condemn sinners. The evil tongue is bad only if it spreads baseless rumors. Speaking evil of an evil person is an obligation. Jews need to denounce their own in order to cleanse society. Modern rabbis have made Judaism into a copycat of Christianity by declaring "love your neighbor" to be the major commandment. It is only a technical commandment which bans inequality of aliens in the court of law. The major thing in Judaism is simply? Judaism. The Jews who oppose Judaism should be frowned at and expelled rather than loved. The rabbis? toleration?even love?of all Jews sets a bad precedent: why, a common Jew asks himself, should I strive from righteousness if rabbis welcome even the sinners? Rabbis thought that treating fellow Jews with respect (a realistic form of loving them) was the essence of the Torah. That kind of reasoning presumes society expunges evil from its midst. All Jews are fellows only in a relatively pure society. In the modern Diaspora or Israel there are many Jews whom the wildest lover of Jews wouldn?t call his fellows: atheist rabbis, corrupt politicians, ad infinitum. The injunction should be rephrased, with the emphasis on "fellow." For example, "Treat with respect the Jews who accept Jewish values." With such a wording, "Jews" becomes a meaningless qualification. A Gentile who accepts the yoke of Jewish values upon himself is as good as any Jew. The injunction can be meaningfully shortened to: "Respect those who accept Jewish values." Such an injunction hinges on our own acceptance of Jewish values; we automatically respect those who share our system of values. The injunction, therefore, boils down to, "Accept Jewish values." That is indeed the essence of the Torah. Judaism is not a religion of self-immersion and quietly purifying one's soul; it is not a monastic or individual religion. Judaism is about deeds, and the deeds invariably affect others: Arabs, homosexuals, criminals, and self-hating Jews. A peaceful homosexual next-door destroys the fundamental Jewish need for culturally homogenous neighbors. Atheist propaganda in school destroys even the best parents' attempts to raise their children as good Jews. Good Jews cannot "live and let live," but have to establish a Jewish habitat?not across the entire world, nor a continent-spanning empire, but on a tiny piece of land. It is the very smallness of the land which allows no compromise: the Jews literally have no room for compromise. The reform rabbis initiate interfaith dialogues, speak about universal humanity (so marry a cannibal), and then are surprised at the assimilation rate. What is the Jewish identity if our first identification is with humanity? On the contrary, the identification goes from the strongest to the weakest?family, nation, Jewish population of the Land of Israel, civilization, then humanity. The last identification is all-inclusive and therefore meaningless: identification is only possible on the background of opposites. Why be Jewish if Jews are humans like any others? Their rich traditions don?t make French or Italians to refrain from marrying others or assimilating into other cultures. Why go to the Jewish temple if it is a house of worship on par with that of any other religion? Why be loyal to Judaism if it is a religion like any other? Judaism hinges on a single question: Did God reveal himself on Mount Sinai? Jews would flock to synagogues if rabbis answered that question with a wholehearted, resounding Yes. Strength feeds on itself. People join the strong both for security and out of snobbishness. When religious Jews make a strong, proud group, arrogant in its declared superior ity, secular Jews will be happy to join them. The cure for assimilation is simple: strength of arms, associations, and beliefs. Assimilation is the consequence of political correctness; politically incorrect Jews who proclaim our religious superiority won?t assimilate. Don't be afraid to say that the Jewish way of life is inherently better than any other. Jews are more ethical because we adhere to more ethical prohibitions. Judaism is about strength?social and moral. Only a strong society can expel deviants for every moral offense. Only a strong society unrelentingly executes and otherwise punishes those who threaten its moral integrity and ritual purity. Only a strong society exterminates Amalek. Strength inhibits assimilation. For American Jews, in the 1967 war ?we won,? but in the peace process ?they are giving the land away.? The Diaspora identifies with strong Israel, and dissociates from the weak. I fell in love with Nietzsche the moment I read him praising the crowd of club-wielding Hebrews. You may view the latest post at http://samsonblinded.org/blog/a-club-of-club-wielding-jews.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/b8824610/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Mon Jun 1 06:56:35 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (creechmargie at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 04:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema Message-ID: <426419.45634.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I hope I'm not missing the jest of all this but I say we do go and tell.? We may think they are not listening but I believe every person we tell is a seed planted.? I remember not to long after I was awakened from my slumber of not considering G-d at all, and I did come to His Word by the "Jesus" doctrine, there was a women in a Bible study who kept spouting off about the Sabbath and following Torah.? It seemed everyone in the group blew her off as a nut and a trouble maker.? But what she said struck a chord in my heart and so started my journey.?Her words inspired me to search the Word for truth. ?When I did begin to read the entire story, and most of you know it was with a bunch of 14-16 year old "christian" indoctrinated kids, I saw HaShem work in their lives in an unbelievable way.? Not all of them were interested, ?but most of them saw that something did not jive with what they had been taught and what the Word actually said.? My four children all know the truth, they don't necessarily live Torah right now but I believe that as the times continue to darken that HaShem will stir in them what they have heard and learned and it will come alive.? Just recently my oldest son has been coming around to facing some very hard things about what he has believed.?It has taken years?and I wasn't sure if they had heard?anything I'd tried to teach them. ?I think the most important thing we can do is pray for our children and the people around us but also take it to the "doing" phase.? It is so easy to become discouraged and irritated at the ones that have not seen truth but we may never see the end result, although if you think about it, we are seeing it.?If someone had told me that I would believe the way I do now years ago I would have thought them crazy or even worse that they were?from the pits of hell.? I don't evangelize but I do tell anyone and everyone that will listen and sometimes those who won't. (which seems like most at this point)? Most of my telling is now?by email which is a wonderful tool because you can show them scripture and they read it and have to deal with it.??Like it's been said, the biggest problem is that they only sit in church listening to a scripture here and there out of context usually with a preacher that has his own agenda?and livelihood to worry about.? We have brothers in prisons all around us, being?behind bars?is not the only form of prison, but I feel that I was a prisoner of all the false teaching that had been passed down generation after generation.? HaShem, Torah, and one woman in a Bible study were the key that began to set me free.? ? Margie? --- On Sun, 5/31/09, mhyde wrote: From: mhyde Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:48 PM ? ? ? I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic.?? Because there are very few who want to listen.? Remember one from a family!?? In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus.?? Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved.?? Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are.?? I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them.? But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school.?? In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then switch.??? I guess I have a bad attitude.?? But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in.?? I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America.???? ? But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation ?program and they seem to be growing.? Just kidding. ? In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them?? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses.?? ???How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? ? I went to my youngest daughters? HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what??? someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute ?sermon.?? She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA.?? I sat and listen to the same ole sermon??.?? It rings so hollow.? I looked at the wife an said,? Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years.??? ??Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree.? She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus.?? If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years.?? My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going?..? but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception.? We then opt out.?? My personal experience was that I turned? my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough ?to meet some very good teachers along the way.? But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say.?? What a waste of time?.. ? I have no answer?.? I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years.? How can we reach this younger generation??? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other.? But everywhere I look around me I don?t see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then? 30)??? maybe, I?m missing something?..? but I?m believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention.?? ? I?m done venting???? but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message??? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint,? you have a unique story. ? Shalom, Ya?ll ? ? From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema ? I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" ? Eliron, ? I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. ?In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... ?If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. ?My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. ? HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." ? BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. ?We are a community...a family. ?However, when it comes to our children, we need more. ? ? In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM,??wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, ? We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai.? One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children)?of this awakening. ? Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas.? I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. ? I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism.? In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out.? I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. ? But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into.? I don't think I need to elaborate on that. ? What are y'all's thoughts on this? ? -- Eliron/John.? "Be excellent to each other!"? Bill and Ted? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/39d26418/attachment.html From chcashmore at hotmail.com Mon Jun 1 06:56:58 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:56:58 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema Message-ID: I understand these thoughts, but also feel many of us have been bought here via initially learning and reading scripture during 'boring' sermons. During our reading we have been lead to question, and more importantly 'ask' for a deeper understanding. HaShem knows how to call out his own, and there are many initial paths which lead us towards His way. So I don't feel that these things need to be looked on as completely negative. What we need more than anything is freedom of 'dialogue'. When people are allowed to question mental blocks are allowed to open. At least this way people choose to follow, rather than blindly accept. And it's done from sincere desire to love and obey HaShem. I'm so thankful to everyone on the list for being part of my path to come closer to HaShem. You are all precious. Much love, Catherine x -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/02277925/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Mon Jun 1 07:32:10 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Patricia) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:32:10 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema In-Reply-To: References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I have often wondered WHY people can't see what is so plainly written in the Hebrew Bible? I believe it is because of their comfort level as you say, Marvin. It truly is comforting to sit in a pew and be told how right you are. Why would they switch when they are not only reassured of their "saved" status, and encouraged at every possible turn in life, but are also sternly reminded that to disagree means eternal damnation? Their churches leave no room for argument. The people are only offered two alternatives: twisted church dogma or Hell. And IF the pastors allowed themselves to diligently SEARCH (not just reassert), then preach what they have found, they would soon go bankrupt. Being caught in this cycle is very much akin to being slaves in Egypt. I think this is why we are promised that a Prophet "like unto Moses" will arise to confront Pharaoh's gods. I also think that is why Elijah must Return and challenge the prophets of Baal again, with the Power of the One True G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It was OUR very ancestors who watched this monumental Battle over two and a half millennia ago, and SAW the Fire of HaShem fall on Elijah's sacrifice, entirely consuming it! One thing I have been doing is implanting in my Grandkids' minds that Moses was a real-life super hero. I found the Prince of Egypt cartoon movie a good tool. We also watched The Ten Commandments together. We would often pause it and talk about the incredible Power of G-d and how He chose Moses and empowered him to save his people, by proving Pharaoh wrong! They are still asking for Moses books from the library so that we can read about him again and again. I'm thinking that now I need to teach them about how Elijah was also a Super Hero of G-d. It has occurred to me that maybe I could get them interested in writing our own story book about Elijah, and how he fought against the lies of a false belief system. Our discussions do occasionally cause my daughter-in-law to limit my time with them, and that's hurtful, but it is more important that they get the idea that there is ONLY ONE G-D AND HE USES HIS SUPER HEROES TO CHALLENGE ALL THAT IS FALSE, than to remain in my comfort zone with them. I am really hoping that we, as a group, can seek HaShem and come up with inspired ideas to confront the prophets of Baal TODAY!!!!! Avigail/Pat From: mhyde Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:48 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I don't think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda -mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial.. they would rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America. But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don't.. it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what.. someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon... It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going... but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time... I have no answer.. I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don't see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I'm missing something... but I'm believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. I'm done venting.. but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. Shalom, Ya'll -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/a1c124ae/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Mon Jun 1 14:17:29 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 15:17:29 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Israel Launches Biggest Emergency Drill In Nation's History In-Reply-To: References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <08c901c9e2ed$9d729af0$d857d0d0$@com> Israel Launches Biggest Emergency Drill In Nation's History June 1, 2009 2:38 p.m. EST Julie Farby - AHN Reporter Jerusalem, Israel (AHN) - Israel launched its biggest emergency drill in the nation's 61-year history on Sunday to prepare citizens, soldiers, and emergency rescue crews for the possibility of war or an attack, the defense ministry said. The five-day drill, nicknamed Turning Point 3, comes amid the nation's rising tensions with Iran over its nuclear ambitions. It will be conducted in public facilities, such as schools, military bases and government offices and will feature drill including simulated rockets, air raids and other attacks on infrastructure and essential facilities, and use of weapons on civilians. In a news statement, Maj. Gen. Yair Golan of the Home Front Command said, "It is of great importance that every civilian, institute and workplace will seriously practice in order to improve our preparedness and national resilience." While Israel has conducted emergency drills the past two years, officials said this is the biggest event so far. Despite being publicly supportive of President Barack Obama administration's outreach to Iran, the Israeli government remains skeptical that the dialogue will stop Iran's nuclear efforts and considers a nuclear-armed Iran as the dominant threat facing the country. Read more: http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7015345854#ixzz0HCvwVD6h &B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/291ee069/attachment.html From oneillcody at yahoo.com Mon Jun 1 14:53:20 2009 From: oneillcody at yahoo.com (cody oneill) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] American capitalism gone with a whimper Message-ID: <574483.9396.qm@web37302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> American capitalism gone with a whimper27.04.2009Source:Pravda.RuURL:?http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-american_capitalism-0 It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American decent into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed, against the back drop of a passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader, I meant people.True, the situation has been well prepared on and off for the past century, especially the past twenty years. The initial testing grounds was conducted upon our Holy Russia and a bloody test it was. But we Russians would not just roll over and give up our freedoms and our souls, no matter how much money Wall Street poured into the fists of the Marxists.Those lessons were taken and used to properly prepare the American populace for the surrender of their freedoms and souls, to the whims of their elites and betters.First, the population was dumbed down through a politicized and substandard education system based on pop culture, rather then the classics. Americans know more about their favorite TV dramas then the drama in DC that directly affects their lives. They care more for their "right" to choke down a McDonalds burger or a BurgerKing burger than for their constitutional rights. Then they turn around and lecture us about our rights and about our "democracy". Pride blind the foolish.Then their faith in God was destroyed, until their churches, all tens of thousands of different "branches and denominations" were for the most part little more then Sunday circuses and their televangelists and top protestant mega preachers were more then happy to sell out their souls and flocks to be on the "winning" side of one pseudo Marxist politician or another. Their flocks may complain, but when explained that they would be on the "winning" side, their flocks were ever so quick to reject Christ in hopes for earthly power. Even our Holy Orthodox churches are scandalously liberalized in America.The final collapse has come with the election of Barack Obama. His speed in the past three months has been truly impressive. His spending and money printing has been a record setting, not just in America's short history but in the world. If this keeps up for more then another year, and there is no sign that it will not, America at best will resemble the Wiemar Republic and at worst Zimbabwe.These past two weeks have been the most breath taking of all. First came the announcement of a planned redesign of the American Byzantine tax system, by the very thieves who used it to bankroll their thefts, loses and swindles of hundreds of billions of dollars. These make our Russian oligarchs look little more then ordinary street thugs, in comparison. Yes, the Americans have beat our own thieves in the shear volumes. Should we congratulate them?These men, of course, are not an elected panel but made up of appointees picked from the very financial oligarchs and their henchmen who are now gorging themselves on trillions of American dollars, in one bailout after another. They are also usurping the rights, duties and powers of the American congress (parliament). Again, congress has put up little more then a whimper to their masters.Then came Barack Obama's command that GM's (General Motor) president step down from leadership of his company. That is correct, dear reader, in the land of "pure" free markets, the American president now has the power, the self given power, to fire CEOs and we can assume other employees of private companies, at will. Come hither, go dither, the centurion commands his minions.So it should be no surprise, that the American president has followed this up with a "bold" move of declaring that he and another group of unelected, chosen stooges will now redesign the entire automotive industry and will even be the guarantee of automobile policies. I am sure that if given the chance, they would happily try and redesign it for the whole of the world, too. Prime Minister Putin, less then two months ago, warned Obama and UK's Blair, not to follow the path to Marxism, it only leads to disaster. Apparently, even though we suffered 70 years of this Western sponsored horror show, we know nothing, as foolish, drunken Russians, so let our "wise" Anglo-Saxon fools find out the folly of their own pride.Again, the American public has taken this with barely a whimper...but a "freeman" whimper.So, should it be any surprise to discover that the Democratically controlled Congress of America is working on passing a new regulation that would give the American Treasury department the power to set "fair" maximum salaries, evaluate performance and control how private companies give out pay raises and bonuses? Senator Barney Franks, a social pervert basking in his homosexuality (of course, amongst the modern, enlightened American societal norm, as well as that of the general West, homosexuality is not only not a looked down upon life choice, but is often praised as a virtue) and his Marxist enlightenment, has led this effort. He stresses that this only affects companies that receive government monies, but it is retroactive and taken to a logical extreme, this would include any company or industry that has ever received a tax break or incentive.The Russian owners of American companies and industries should look thoughtfully at this and the option of closing their facilities down and fleeing the land of the Red as fast as possible. In other words, divest while there is still value left.The proud American will go down into his slavery with out a fight, beating his chest and proclaiming to the world, how free he really is. The world will only snicker.Stanislav Mishin "To be courageous requires no exceptional qualifications, no magic formula, no special combination of time, place, and circumstance. It is an opportunity that sooner or later is presented to us all." --JFK-- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/2b69dee1/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 15:13:04 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:13:04 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] John, how's Megan? Message-ID: <855590370906011313t23ffdd3eh5c7fb3769d91059b@mail.gmail.com> Hey John - How's Megan doing? She's in my tefilot, and I am praying that the dirt bag gets what's coming to him. If not, I hope he comes up to NYC for a visit..... Please give her lots of hugs from all of us.... *Hanoch* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/3b80af28/attachment.html From j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 1 16:37:45 2009 From: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net (Helen Lusk) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 14:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] CHAG SAMEACH SHAVUOT. In-Reply-To: <4A1E3572.8080201@westnet.com.au> References: <4A1E3572.8080201@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <929063.4361.qm@web82501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Shalom, Joe, I just got your message and tried to call you back but I think I have the wrong country code? 81??? Sorry if you are in a rush please just try another time. Kind regards, Helen ________________________________ From: JOE INDOMENICO To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:55:46 AM Subject: [Dialogue] CHAG SAMEACH SHAVUOT. ????????????????????????????? ???????? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Chag Sameach Shavuot. ???????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????? ?? May HaShem bless you all ???????????????????????????????????????????? as we remember Mattan Torah !!! ??????????????????????????????????????????????????? Shalom v'Ahavah ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/00fa58c0/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: moz-screenshot-28.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 28446 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/00fa58c0/attachment.jpg From im50332 at bigpond.net.au Mon Jun 1 18:10:28 2009 From: im50332 at bigpond.net.au (Pamela Barbera) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:10:28 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] "A Club of Club-Wielding Jews" References: <855590370906010454v691e4546rb4a6c6eede38d6ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Great Article Hanoch, thanks, Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: Hanoch Young To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: [Dialogue] "A Club of Club-Wielding Jews" Boker tov L'Kulam (Good Morning to Everyone) - Usually I post articles that I think people will find interesting or meaningful. The one below is for ME :-) It really speaks to my heart... Hanoch 'A club of club-wielding Jews' by 'Samson's Blinded' Absence of riches is not poverty, and absence of arrogance is not humility. One need not be humble in order to avoid arrogance. Self-respect is a positive attitude. Rabbis emphasized humility for a reason: stiff-necked Jews could be extinguished. Given the weakness of Jews compared to the imperial powers and the host nations of the Diaspora, it seemed to make sense to accept humiliations in order to survive, rather than be killed outright in unequal struggles. Though logical, the argument might not be correct. From the Babylonians to the Germans, hostile nations have almost annihilated weak Jews many times in our history. Desperate resistance could have saved more Jews than humility by deterring the aggressors from pressing too far. In the war of 66-70 C.E. Jews mostly hid from the Romans in town fortresses?a tactic which likely provoked the Romans to further depredations. After the defeat of 135 C.E., when Jews under Bar Kochba fought the Romans valiantly, the victorious Romans left the remaining Jews alone to such an extent that Talmudic rabbis praised Roman justice. Jewish strength in 132-135 allowed for the survival of a larger part of the Jewish nation than when the Jews met their killers with humility. In terms of social evolution, humility cannot be a beneficial trait. Jewish weakness provokes anti-Semitism. Nor were the Jews humble. In fact, they were commanded to be proud. The blue thread in tassels, which every Jew must attach to fringes of his coat, is a symbol of royalty. Only the upper classes wore blue clothes in antiquity, leading the Romans to eventually monopolize the trade in blue pigment. The entire Jewish people were commanded to behave as a royal nation. Ashkenazi rabbis abrogated the requirement for the blue thread on the pretext that the necessary blue pigment was unavailable. Repeated assertions of humility and submission to slavery led the Jews to the gas chambers; why defend something which professes itself lowlier than a worm? God calls Jews his workers, not slaves; that epithet is wildly exaggerated in rabbinical literature. A mob of slaves is easy to lead; the smallest rabbi is like a king compared to the humble slaves Jews profess to be in hundreds of prayers. God doesn't need slaves; Jews must be decent people, conscious of their worth, in order to be the beacon to nations. Rabbis tried to make Jews nice, to make us "more pious than God." Guess what, Jews are not nice. From those who fought under Abraham to those who robbed the Egyptians to those who knocked down the towns of Canaan to Dir Yassin to Kach?the Jews are anything but nice. Jews must serve God and their moral principles zealously, and how could humble people be zealous? Zeal is about certainty of one's right and willingness to establish that right in the Land of Israel. Nice Jews were supposed to talk nice, and rabbis invented the doctrine of evil tongue. What could be further from Judaism? It is the obligation of any Jew to talk bad?very bad?about deviants, and to denounce evildoers. That's regardless of his or her own piety. Judges need not be unblemished and righteous in order to condemn sinners. The evil tongue is bad only if it spreads baseless rumors. Speaking evil of an evil person is an obligation. Jews need to denounce their own in order to cleanse society. Modern rabbis have made Judaism into a copycat of Christianity by declaring "love your neighbor" to be the major commandment. It is only a technical commandment which bans inequality of aliens in the court of law. The major thing in Judaism is simply? Judaism. The Jews who oppose Judaism should be frowned at and expelled rather than loved. The rabbis? toleration?even love?of all Jews sets a bad precedent: why, a common Jew asks himself, should I strive from righteousness if rabbis welcome even the sinners? Rabbis thought that treating fellow Jews with respect (a realistic form of loving them) was the essence of the Torah. That kind of reasoning presumes society expunges evil from its midst. All Jews are fellows only in a relatively pure society. In the modern Diaspora or Israel there are many Jews whom the wildest lover of Jews wouldn?t call his fellows: atheist rabbis, corrupt politicians, ad infinitum. The injunction should be rephrased, with the emphasis on "fellow." For example, "Treat with respect the Jews who accept Jewish values." With such a wording, "Jews" becomes a meaningless qualification. A Gentile who accepts the yoke of Jewish values upon himself is as good as any Jew. The injunction can be meaningfully shortened to: "Respect those who accept Jewish values." Such an injunction hinges on our own acceptance of Jewish values; we automatically respect those who share our system of values. The injunction, therefore, boils down to, "Accept Jewish values." That is indeed the essence of the Torah. Judaism is not a religion of self-immersion and quietly purifying one's soul; it is not a monastic or individual religion. Judaism is about deeds, and the deeds invariably affect others: Arabs, homosexuals, criminals, and self-hating Jews. A peaceful homosexual next-door destroys the fundamental Jewish need for culturally homogenous neighbors. Atheist propaganda in school destroys even the best parents' attempts to raise their children as good Jews. Good Jews cannot "live and let live," but have to establish a Jewish habitat?not across the entire world, nor a continent-spanning empire, but on a tiny piece of land. It is the very smallness of the land which allows no compromise: the Jews literally have no room for compromise. The reform rabbis initiate interfaith dialogues, speak about universal humanity (so marry a cannibal), and then are surprised at the assimilation rate. What is the Jewish identity if our first identification is with humanity? On the contrary, the identification goes from the strongest to the weakest?family, nation, Jewish population of the Land of Israel, civilization, then humanity. The last identification is all-inclusive and therefore meaningless: identification is only possible on the background of opposites. Why be Jewish if Jews are humans like any others? Their rich traditions don?t make French or Italians to refrain from marrying others or assimilating into other cultures. Why go to the Jewish temple if it is a house of worship on par with that of any other religion? Why be loyal to Judaism if it is a religion like any other? Judaism hinges on a single question: Did God reveal himself on Mount Sinai? Jews would flock to synagogues if rabbis answered that question with a wholehearted, resounding Yes. Strength feeds on itself. People join the strong both for security and out of snobbishness. When religious Jews make a strong, proud group, arrogant in its declared superior ity, secular Jews will be happy to join them. The cure for assimilation is simple: strength of arms, associations, and beliefs. Assimilation is the consequence of political correctness; politically incorrect Jews who proclaim our religious superiority won?t assimilate. Don't be afraid to say that the Jewish way of life is inherently better than any other. Jews are more ethical because we adhere to more ethical prohibitions. Judaism is about strength?social and moral. Only a strong society can expel deviants for every moral offense. Only a strong society unrelentingly executes and otherwise punishes those who threaten its moral integrity and ritual purity. Only a strong society exterminates Amalek. Strength inhibits assimilation. For American Jews, in the 1967 war ?we won,? but in the peace process ?they are giving the land away.? The Diaspora identifies with strong Israel, and dissociates from the weak. I fell in love with Nietzsche the moment I read him praising the crowd of club-wielding Hebrews. You may view the latest post at http://samsonblinded.org/blog/a-club-of-club-wielding-jews.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/5301ec30/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Mon Jun 1 19:16:17 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:16:17 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations-Hosea and Northern Kingdom! In-Reply-To: <1c8dbb6e0905302021i13f78db3hc4f2e753b55e5e45@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A1DB409.7010606@mts.net> <05f501c9e011$58f9edd0$0aedc970$@com> <1c8dbb6e0905290637u108eec3ds2182aff6392ea1ba@mail.gmail.com> <6E2AEB3E9D3746679B0B89A243790ACB@MarvinLT> <053120090232.21413.4A21EC280007C8F0000053A522230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <1c8dbb6e0905302021i13f78db3hc4f2e753b55e5e45@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Very insightful Kim. I see what you are saying and I wonder if others have looked closely at this. So often we read with eyes that are not always fresh.this is definitely a different way of seeing things, and it makes sense to me. Other thoughts, anyone? Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:22 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations I was referring to Hosea Chapter 2 verses 2 & 3 from last week's Haftorah. 2. And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and they shall appoint themselves one head, and shall go up out of the land; for great shall be the day of Jezreel. 3. Say ye unto your brethren: 'Ammi'; and to your sisters, 'Ruhamah.' It appears that Judah and the tribes are gathering outside of Israel and appointing themselves a head to lead them up out of exile...also that the "lost tribes" are recognized by their brother Judah. I realize that other scriptures show a different scenarios...this is just what I see in Hosea who was a prophet primarily for the Northern Kingdom. Kim On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 9:32 PM, wrote: Marvin and Kim, Please forgive me for jumping in here but I think Kim is referring to Hosea 1:11. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "mhyde" : -------------- Kim, If your referring to Hosea 3: 1 - then yes I would agree it seems to speak of all Israel and not just the ten tribes. The reason I would say this is because the things listed that Israel did not have also applied to all 12 tribes not just the ten northern. I don't quite see from this passage that they appoint themselves a head to lead them out of the land of exile. Although I too see a process here, I'm not so sure of who King David is sometimes I lean more toward the historical figure and other times I see the son of David, the future Messiah. If a person came forward and proclaimed himself as Messiah, then yes I would say the people could appoint him as their head and then look to him for leadership. But from your question and from the verse's in hosea 2 and 3 it seems they(all Israel) is still out of the land when they start seeking hashem and David their king. Marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 9:37 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations Speaking of processes....what are your thoughts on Hoses II 1-3. It seems to be saying that Judah and the tribes will recognize each other as brethren and then appoint themselves a head to lead them out of the land (of exile)...far different from the Christian messiah coming down from the clouds. More of a natural process...orchestrated by HaShem, but brought to action by His people. Kiim On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:05 AM, mhyde wrote: I have read Dr. Tabors RAF several times and I know he talks about a process, and it seems like I have known that and agreed with the process for years. I was working the other day and meditating on some passages of scripture and as I was thinking I began to understand that when Messiah comes, this is not the end as expected by most people. However it is the beginning... The beginning of a new world. Now we could all say duh.... we know that. I'm reminded of a comment I made some time back about Messiah might be in Israel sometime before the world(Christians) even know he is here. Alone with these thoughts, I also keep thinking about the comment made about the name of UIWU. The more I think on this the more I'm beginning to see how profound or maybe prophetic David Horowtiz was when he named the UNITED ISRAEL - World Union some 60 years ago. Without Israel being united, the world can never be a world union of nations. It really is so simple when you begin to see it. The prophets saw it but we have been so blinded by the distortions of the church. I think we all can say we read and study and then we catch hold of scripture in a way we have missed in the past. Being so immersed in Christian doctrine, after all these years, I still find myself struggling to clean out all the old ideals and completely take hold of torah and the prophets without the influence of pagan, greek, Hellenized Christian influence. Isa 27:12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD will beat off His fruit from the flood of the River unto the Brook of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel. Isa 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great horn shall be blown; and they shall come that were lost in the land of Assyria, and they that were dispersed in the land of Egypt; and they shall worship the LORD in the holy mountain at Jerusalem. Just think Passover, just behind us, Shavuot here now and we are headed for the seventh month. Could this be the year? Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying: In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall be a solemn rest unto you, a memorial proclaimed with the blast of horns, a holy convocation. Lev 23:25 Ye shall do no manner of servile work; and ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto the LORD. Lev 23:26 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying: Lev 23:27 Howbeit on the tenth day of this seventh month is the day of atonement; there shall be a holy convocation unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls; and ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto the LORD. Shalom, Marvin -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of James Tabor Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 12:36 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations I think that is true but then we have very specific statements about what the one who comes, sits on David's throne, and regathers all of Israel will do, and it is at a specific point in time, as described by the Prophets. Best, James On May 28, 2009, at 11:55 PM, Patty wrote: > Hi Marvin and All, > > Perhaps the Message of Peace can be interpreted on a Personal as > well as > National level. I believe Yeshua BROUGHT peace (the Message of > Peace), and > it was up to the individual to accept or reject it. > > Blessings, > Patty > > -----Original Message----- > From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of mhyde > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:51 PM > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations > > > Hey gang, > > I have a question. Christians generally think that when > Messiah(jesus) > comes that he will bring peace to all of us. Good guys go to heaven > and the > bad guys go to hell. > > My question or statement is this. I think or am seeing in > scripture, that > when Messiah comes he will set things right in Israel. The > nations will > see the blessings that come with following the way of Hashem and > they will > also see the cursing that comes with not following the way of Hashem. > Therefore , the nations will then choose to follow the way or not, > but as > I'm seeing it or at least what I'm thinking. So what if Messiah > comes? He > will not fix the whole world at once. It will be a process, that > begins > with the nation of Israel and then works it's way outward and around > the > entire globe. > > Now if I have not totally missed it, this will create quite a > different > future then the one espoused by Christianity. > > Any thoughts? > > > marvin > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/974d9531/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Mon Jun 1 19:30:38 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:30:38 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] John, how's Megan? In-Reply-To: <855590370906011313t23ffdd3eh5c7fb3769d91059b@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370906011313t23ffdd3eh5c7fb3769d91059b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0D262E2340634675A57F61505602CDFD@bettylaptop> Eliron, I have been thinking and praying about Megan and Carin and you as well and wondering how she is doing. When you can please give us an update? As far as coming up to NYC for a visit, Hanoch, that might not be a bad idea! Love and hugs to you and Carin and Megan, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:13 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] John, how's Megan? Hey John - How's Megan doing? She's in my tefilot, and I am praying that the dirt bag gets what's coming to him. If not, I hope he comes up to NYC for a visit..... Please give her lots of hugs from all of us.... Hanoch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/d89cd630/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Mon Jun 1 19:50:03 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:50:03 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema In-Reply-To: <426419.45634.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <426419.45634.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <17E2B3B134444BA4BF01707194E959E9@MarvinLT> I agree with you Margie, pat and Catherine. We must try to sow seed in any way and in every place we go. And especially with our young children and grandchildren. Maybe God is using all those dead and boring sermons, to get his people to start reading his torah. Never thought of it like that. A friend of my years ago told me that the great commission in Matthew that is oft repeated as the command to evangelize should really be understood not as a command, but in the sense of "as you go" just sowing seed as you go. marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of creechmargie at yahoo.com Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:57 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I hope I'm not missing the jest of all this but I say we do go and tell. We may think they are not listening but I believe every person we tell is a seed planted. I remember not to long after I was awakened from my slumber of not considering G-d at all, and I did come to His Word by the "Jesus" doctrine, there was a women in a Bible study who kept spouting off about the Sabbath and following Torah. It seemed everyone in the group blew her off as a nut and a trouble maker. But what she said struck a chord in my heart and so started my journey. Her words inspired me to search the Word for truth. When I did begin to read the entire story, and most of you know it was with a bunch of 14-16 year old "christian" indoctrinated kids, I saw HaShem work in their lives in an unbelievable way. Not all of them were interested, but most of them saw that something did not jive with what they had been taught and what the Word actually said. My four children all know the truth, they don't necessarily live Torah right now but I believe that as the times continue to darken that HaShem will stir in them what they have heard and learned and it will come alive. Just recently my oldest son has been coming around to facing some very hard things about what he has believed. It has taken years and I wasn't sure if they had heard anything I'd tried to teach them. I think the most important thing we can do is pray for our children and the people around us but also take it to the "doing" phase. It is so easy to become discouraged and irritated at the ones that have not seen truth but we may never see the end result, although if you think about it, we are seeing it. If someone had told me that I would believe the way I do now years ago I would have thought them crazy or even worse that they were from the pits of hell. I don't evangelize but I do tell anyone and everyone that will listen and sometimes those who won't. (which seems like most at this point) Most of my telling is now by email which is a wonderful tool because you can show them scripture and they read it and have to deal with it. Like it's been said, the biggest problem is that they only sit in church listening to a scripture here and there out of context usually with a preacher that has his own agenda and livelihood to worry about. We have brothers in prisons all around us, being behind bars is not the only form of prison, but I feel that I was a prisoner of all the false teaching that had been passed down generation after generation. HaShem, Torah, and one woman in a Bible study were the key that began to set me free. Margie --- On Sun, 5/31/09, mhyde wrote: From: mhyde Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:48 PM I don't think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda -mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial.. they would rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America. But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don't.. it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what.. someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon... It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going... but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time... I have no answer.. I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don't see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I'm missing something... but I'm believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. I'm done venting.. but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. Shalom, Ya'll _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, < carlson_john at bellsouth.net> wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/5d37be15/attachment.html From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 22:00:18 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:00:18 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema In-Reply-To: <17E2B3B134444BA4BF01707194E959E9@MarvinLT> References: <426419.45634.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <17E2B3B134444BA4BF01707194E959E9@MarvinLT> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906012000k46d46f62t2c34cb9acc582eed@mail.gmail.com> I appreciate everyone's input on this topic. I believe most of us have been praying about this topic and already have some good ideas. What I propose in continued prayer as well as one setting aside one day to really concentrate on teaching our children and others. I would like to post an event on SWW and also to a note to the dialogue. The date that I have in mind is Tammuz 17 (July 8-July9). It is already a day set aside for prayer and fasting on the Hebrew Calendar. I also propose this date because the Torah portion for this week is Pinchas. The Torah and Haftorah reading seem to be appropriate. Any comments or alternative suggestions? I would like to post this asap, and then set up another time soon after to bounce ideas back and forth. Love to you all, Kim On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:50 PM, mhyde wrote: > I agree with you Margie, pat and Catherine. We must try to sow seed in > any way and in every place we go. And especially with our young children > and grandchildren. Maybe God is using all those dead and boring sermons, > to get his people to start reading his torah. Never thought of it like > that. > > > > A friend of my years ago told me that the great commission in Matthew that > is oft repeated as the command to evangelize should really be understood not > as a command, but in the sense of ?as you go? just sowing seed as you go. > > > > marvin > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *creechmargie at yahoo.com > *Sent:* Monday, June 01, 2009 7:57 AM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > > *Subject:* RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema > > > > I hope I'm not missing the jest of all this but I say we do go and tell. > We may think they are not listening but I believe every person we tell is a > seed planted. I remember not to long after I was awakened from my slumber > of not considering G-d at all, and I did come to His Word by the "Jesus" > doctrine, there was a women in a Bible study who kept spouting off about the > Sabbath and following Torah. It seemed everyone in the group blew her off > as a nut and a trouble maker. But what she said struck a chord in my heart > and so started my journey. Her words inspired me to search the Word for > truth. When I did begin to read the entire story, and most of you know it > was with a bunch of 14-16 year old "christian" indoctrinated kids, I saw > HaShem work in their lives in an unbelievable way. Not all of them were > interested, but most of them saw that something did not jive with what they > had been taught and what the Word actually said. My four children all know > the truth, they don't necessarily live Torah right now but I believe that as > the times continue to darken that HaShem will stir in them what they have > heard and learned and it will come alive. Just recently my oldest son has > been coming around to facing some very hard things about what he has > believed. It has taken years and I wasn't sure if they had heard anything > I'd tried to teach them. I think the most important thing we can do is pray > for our children and the people around us but also take it to the "doing" > phase. It is so easy to become discouraged and irritated at the ones that > have not seen truth but we may never see the end result, although if you > think about it, we are seeing it. If someone had told me that I would > believe the way I do now years ago I would have thought them crazy or even > worse that they were from the pits of hell. I don't evangelize but I do > tell anyone and everyone that will listen and sometimes those who won't. > (which seems like most at this point) Most of my telling is now by email > which is a wonderful tool because you can show them scripture and they read > it and have to deal with it. Like it's been said, the biggest problem is > that they only sit in church listening to a scripture here and there out of > context usually with a preacher that has his own agenda and livelihood to > worry about. We have brothers in prisons all around us, being behind > bars is not the only form of prison, but I feel that I was a prisoner of all > the false teaching that had been passed down generation after generation. > HaShem, Torah, and one woman in a Bible study were the key that began to set > me free. > > > > Margie > --- On *Sun, 5/31/09, mhyde * wrote: > > > From: mhyde > Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:48 PM > > > > > > > > I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because > there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the > south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are not > interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks > with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. > Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church > are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse > and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue > scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have > learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail > are like the ole cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then > switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the > trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be > willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites > are from other countries and not form America. > > > > But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and > they seem to be growing. Just kidding. > > > > In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this > on to them? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call who he will and open > blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the > next generation? > > > > I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 > valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last > girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with > Jesus Christ and guess what?? someone controlling the sound turned it up > and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire > for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole > sermon??. It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, > when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five > years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her > collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win > the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 > years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their > program going?.. but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the > lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal > experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and > scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the > way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and > sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to > say. What a waste of time?.. > > > > I have no answer?. I have thought on this subject often these past couple > of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about > 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But > everywhere I look around me I don?t see anybody batting that good with this > young generation(less then 30) maybe, I?m missing something?.. but I?m > believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples > attention. > > > > I?m done venting?? but still with the question of how do we reach this > young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most > interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. > > > > Shalom, Ya?ll > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *kim alvarado > *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Dialogue] Living the Shema > > > > I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed > under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" > > > > Eliron, > > > > I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should > focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. > In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking > to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart > for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following > HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the > lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us > how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have > told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our > community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn > together." > > > > BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are > a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need > more. > > > > > > In love, > > Kim > > - Hide quoted text - > > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, <*carlson_john at bellsouth.net* > > wrote: > > - Hide quoted text - > > Hey James and all, > > > > We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple > Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up > periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of > this awakening. > > > > Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in > prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be > decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very > appropriate approach. > > > > I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks > like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of > the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others > out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not > please say so. > > > > But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out > fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall > into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to > elaborate on that. > > > > What are y'all's thoughts on this? > > > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/187056f4/attachment.html From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 22:06:45 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:06:45 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations In-Reply-To: <060120090442.5802.4A235C1C000A7F0F000016AA22243651029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <4A1DB409.7010606@mts.net> <1c8dbb6e0905290637u108eec3ds2182aff6392ea1ba@mail.gmail.com> <6E2AEB3E9D3746679B0B89A243790ACB@MarvinLT> <053120090232.21413.4A21EC280007C8F0000053A522230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <1c8dbb6e0905302021i13f78db3hc4f2e753b55e5e45@mail.gmail.com> <6191AF13-CE31-426D-944F-55C26C3FBAFD@earthlink.net> <060120090151.28496.4A23340B000A4B9500006F5022230647029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <1c8dbb6e0905311931h32aaace7q7321d395bdc65c3c@mail.gmail.com> <060120090442.5802.4A235C1C000A7F0F000016AA22243651029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906012006i6dcef4a9hff13d5c6c2ef2d33@mail.gmail.com> Eliron, I started a new thread on this topic: Living the Shema. I am proposing the 17 of Tammuz....my reason being listed on that post. Shalom and blessings, Kim On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:42 PM, wrote: > Hannah, > > I know, I am in full agreement. I'm glad that you made your idea clear to > to everyone, we need to get started on it. > > It's a little different for me, my kids are grown and they can't figure out > what has happened to thier parents. They look at all of this as a simple > political situation, they have no clue and they won't listen to > alternatives. So, from my perspective, this is more complicated. They have > already rejected Christianity. In thier minds, all religion is false, why > would they accept our revelations? > > This is where Christianity has failed, they held truth, but changed it > because too many people objected to it, Judiasm does the same thing and it > is what every prophet, including Yeshua, has railed against. We keep asking > HaShem how long will it be until you return. I wonder if He is is asking > how long it will be until we understand! > > These are difficult times but they are times in which people like us can > make a difference. > > You are a Hebrew mother and that relationship is a sacred thing in the > Hebrew faith. In contrast, the American reality, most of our children have > no clue regarding our forefathers, let alone their beliefs. History is the > most neglected subject in our society, and at the risk of sounding > political, Mr, Obama is our prime example. The two-state solution won't > work, but he is following Carterism. Is he looking for a good solution for > Israel? No, he is trying to eliminate a pest, so that he can get on with > more important matters. > > To use a Star Trek term, the Prime Directive for Israel (and us) is "to > remember". To remember His testimony. I think it is time for us to revive > that, but the question is how? This is the subject of your question. > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from kim alvarado < > kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com>: -------------- > > Eliron, > I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should > focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. > In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking > to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart > for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following > HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the > lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us > how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have > told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our > community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn > together." > > BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are > a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need > more. > > > In love, > Kim > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, wrote: > >> Hey James and all, >> >> We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple >> Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up >> periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of >> this awakening. >> >> Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in >> prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be >> decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very >> appropriate approach. >> >> I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks >> like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of >> the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others >> out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not >> please say so. >> >> But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out >> fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall >> into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to >> elaborate on that. >> >> What are y'all's thoughts on this? >> >> -- >> Eliron/John. >> >> "Be excellent to each other!" >> Bill and Ted >> >> >> -------------- Original message from James Tabor < >> jamesdtabor at earthlink.net>: -------------- >> >> Okay you guys, listen to this. Yesterday, here in Boone at our Men's >> Shavuot retreat, at about the same time you all were batting the Hosea >> passage back and forth (chap 2 in the Hebrew; chap 1 in the Christian >> Bibles) we began spontaneously discussing this precise passage! I brought it >> up and the dozen of us sat in a circle with Bibles in hand and talked about >> it, working through the Hebrew and so forth. I just thought it was a very >> amazing congruence between us and all of you on the Dialogue list! >> Our own sense was that at some point in time (may it be soon and in our >> time), these three things happen: >> >> 1. The unidentified Israelites of the Ten Tribes who number as the sand of >> the sea, are told by an unidentified source: You are the sons of the Living >> God, no longer Lo Ami. >> >> 2. As a result of this Judah joins with these newly identified Israelites >> and there is a massive return, under one head. >> >> 3. They to "up from the Land," which we took to mean they had come in from >> the south, but were now headed up north to Jerusalem, with their leader >> showing the way... >> >> This fits with the rest of Hosea about wooing them in the wilderness, and >> also how the area south by the Dead Sea become a "Petach Tikvah." >> >> James >> >> >> On May 30, 2009, at 11:21 PM, kim alvarado wrote: >> >> I was referring to Hosea Chapter 2 verses 2 & 3 from last week's Haftorah. >> >> 2. And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be >> gathered together, and they shall appoint themselves one head, and shall go >> up out of the land; for great shall be the day of Jezreel. >> >> 3. Say ye unto your brethren: 'Ammi'; and to your sisters, 'Ruhamah.' >> >> It appears that Judah and the tribes are gathering outside of Israel and >> appointing themselves a head to lead them up out of exile...also that the >> "lost tribes" are recognized by their brother Judah. >> I realize that other scriptures show a different scenarios...this is just >> what I see in Hosea who was a prophet primarily for the Northern Kingdom. >> >> Kim >> >> >> >> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 9:32 PM, wrote: >> >>> Marvin and Kim, >>> >>> Please forgive me for jumping in here but I think Kim is referring to >>> Hosea 1:11. >>> >>> -- >>> Eliron/John. >>> >>> "Be excellent to each other!" >>> Bill and Ted >>> >>> >>> -------------- Original message from "mhyde" : >>> -------------- >>> >>> Kim, >>> >>> >>> >>> If your referring to Hosea 3: 1 ? then yes I would agree it seems to >>> speak of all Israel and not just the ten tribes. >>> >>> The reason I would say this is because the things listed that Israel did >>> not have also applied to all 12 tribes not just the ten northern. I don?t >>> quite see from this passage that they appoint themselves a head to lead them >>> out of the land of exile. >>> >>> Although I too see a process here, I?m not so sure of who King David is >>> sometimes I lean more toward the historical figure and other times I see the >>> son of David, the future Messiah. >>> >>> >>> >>> If a person came forward and proclaimed himself as Messiah, then yes I >>> would say the people could appoint him as their head and then look to him >>> for leadership. But from your question and from the verse?s in hosea 2 and >>> 3 it seems they(all Israel) is still out of the land when they start >>> seeking hashem and David their king. >>> >>> >>> >>> Marvin >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: >>> dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *kim alvarado >>> *Sent:* Friday, May 29, 2009 9:37 AM >>> *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations >>> >>> >>> >>> Speaking of processes....what are your thoughts on Hoses II 1-3. It >>> seems to be saying that Judah and the tribes will recognize each other as >>> brethren and then appoint themselves a head to lead them out of the land (of >>> exile)...far different from the Christian messiah coming down from the >>> clouds. More of a natural process...orchestrated by HaShem, but brought to >>> action by His people. >>> >>> >>> >>> Kiim >>> >>> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:05 AM, mhyde wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> I have read Dr. Tabors RAF several times and I know he talks about a >>> process, and it seems like I have known that and agreed with the process >>> for >>> years. I was working the other day and meditating on some passages of >>> scripture and as I was thinking I began to understand that when Messiah >>> comes, this is not the end as expected by most people. However it is the >>> beginning... The beginning of a new world. Now we could all say >>> duh.... >>> we know that. I'm reminded of a comment I made some time back about >>> Messiah might be in Israel sometime before the world(Christians) even >>> know >>> he is here. Alone with these thoughts, I also keep thinking about the >>> comment made about the name of UIWU. The more I think on this the more >>> I'm >>> beginning to see how profound or maybe prophetic David Horowtiz was when >>> he >>> named the UNITED ISRAEL - World Union some 60 years ago. >>> >>> Without Israel being united, the world can never be a world union of >>> nations. It really is so simple when you begin to see it. The prophets >>> saw >>> it but we have been so blinded by the distortions of the church. >>> >>> I think we all can say we read and study and then we catch hold of >>> scripture >>> in a way we have missed in the past. Being so immersed in Christian >>> doctrine, after all these years, I still find myself struggling to clean >>> out >>> all the old ideals and completely take hold of torah and the prophets >>> without the influence of pagan, greek, Hellenized Christian influence. >>> >>> >>> Isa 27:12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD will >>> beat >>> off His fruit from the flood of the River unto the Brook of Egypt, and ye >>> shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel. >>> Isa 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great horn shall >>> be >>> blown; and they shall come that were lost in the land of Assyria, and >>> they >>> that were dispersed in the land of Egypt; and they shall worship the LORD >>> in >>> the holy mountain at Jerusalem. >>> >>> Just think Passover, just behind us, Shavuot here now and we are headed >>> for >>> the seventh month. Could this be the year? >>> >>> >>> >>> Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying: In the seventh >>> month, >>> in the first day of the month, shall be a solemn rest unto you, a >>> memorial >>> proclaimed with the blast of horns, a holy convocation. >>> Lev 23:25 Ye shall do no manner of servile work; and ye shall bring an >>> offering made by fire unto the LORD. >>> Lev 23:26 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying: >>> Lev 23:27 Howbeit on the tenth day of this seventh month is the day of >>> atonement; there shall be a holy convocation unto you, and ye shall >>> afflict >>> your souls; and ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto the LORD. >>> >>> Shalom, >>> Marvin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >>> >>> [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of James Tabor >>> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 12:36 AM >>> To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations >>> >>> I think that is true but then we have very specific statements about >>> what the one who comes, sits on David's throne, and regathers all of >>> Israel will do, and it is at a specific point in time, as described by >>> the Prophets. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> James >>> >>> >>> On May 28, 2009, at 11:55 PM, Patty wrote: >>> >>> > Hi Marvin and All, >>> > >>> > Perhaps the Message of Peace can be interpreted on a Personal as >>> > well as >>> > National level. I believe Yeshua BROUGHT peace (the Message of >>> > Peace), and >>> > it was up to the individual to accept or reject it. >>> > >>> > Blessings, >>> > Patty >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >>> > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of mhyde >>> > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:51 PM >>> > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >>> > Subject: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations >>> > >>> > >>> > Hey gang, >>> > >>> > I have a question. Christians generally think that when >>> > Messiah(jesus) >>> > comes that he will bring peace to all of us. Good guys go to heaven >>> > and the >>> > bad guys go to hell. >>> > >>> > My question or statement is this. I think or am seeing in >>> > scripture, that >>> > when Messiah comes he will set things right in Israel. The >>> > nations will >>> > see the blessings that come with following the way of Hashem and >>> > they will >>> > also see the cursing that comes with not following the way of Hashem. >>> > Therefore , the nations will then choose to follow the way or not, >>> > but as >>> > I'm seeing it or at least what I'm thinking. So what if Messiah >>> > comes? He >>> > will not fix the whole world at once. It will be a process, that >>> > begins >>> > with the nation of Israel and then works it's way outward and around >>> > the >>> > entire globe. >>> > >>> > Now if I have not totally missed it, this will create quite a >>> > different >>> > future then the one espoused by Christianity. >>> > >>> > Any thoughts? >>> > >>> > >>> > marvin >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/6d299783/attachment.html From betty_m_eddy at yahoo.com Mon Jun 1 22:16:13 2009 From: betty_m_eddy at yahoo.com (Betty Eddy) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations Message-ID: <423426.37705.qm@web30404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have been reading all the emails and I have a suggestion. It won't help children of Christians that don't want to hear the truth, but Ross said something that sparked a thought. I wonder if ROF could have something for the children. He mentioned Vacation Bible School. Maybe ROF could put together something like that. Maybe he could podcast something just for children. It might be different times for different age levels. the kids need that interaction and involvement as much as the adults. The younger kids might watch and listen to a story. Maybe the camera could show pictures of the book and maybe a group of kids their age listening to the story. Older kids might have a group chat discussion with their input answering questions like we do on Saturday. I'm just brainstorming, but we all need the connection to like-minded others. Betty Eddy --- On Mon, 6/1/09, kim alvarado wrote: From: kim alvarado Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 10:06 PM Eliron, I started a new thread on this topic: Living the Shema. ?I am proposing the 17 of Tammuz....my reason being listed on that post. Shalom and blessings,Kim On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:42 PM, wrote: Hannah,? ? I know, I am in full agreement.? I'm glad that you made your idea clear to to everyone, we need to get started on it. ? It's a little different for me, my kids are grown and they can't figure out what has happened to thier parents.? They look at all of this as a simple political situation, they have no clue and they won't listen to alternatives.? So, from my perspective, this is more complicated.? They have already rejected Christianity.? In thier minds, all religion is false, why would they accept our revelations? ? This is where Christianity has failed, they held truth, but changed it because too many people objected to it, Judiasm does the same thing and it is what every prophet, including Yeshua, has railed against.? We keep asking HaShem how long will it be until you return. ?I wonder if He is is asking how long it will be until we understand! ? These are difficult times but they are times in which people like us can make a difference. ? You are a Hebrew mother and that relationship is a sacred thing in the Hebrew faith.??In contrast, the American reality,?most of our children have no clue regarding our forefathers, let alone their beliefs.? History is the most neglected subject in our society, and at the risk of sounding? political, Mr, Obama is our prime example.? The two-state solution won't work, but he is following Carterism.? Is he looking for a good solution for Israel?? No, he is trying to eliminate a pest, so that he can get on with more important matters. ? To use a Star Trek term, the Prime Directive for Israel (and us) is "to remember".? To remember His testimony.? I think it is time for us to revive that, but the question is how?? This is the subject of your question. ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ? -------------- Original message from kim alvarado : -------------- Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. ?In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... ?If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. ?My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. ? HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. ?We are a community...a family. ?However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, wrote: Hey James and all, ? We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai.? One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children)?of this awakening. ? Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas.? I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. ? I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism.? In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out.? I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. ? But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into.? I don't think I need to elaborate on that. ? What are y'all's thoughts on this? ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ? -------------- Original message from James Tabor : -------------- Okay you guys, listen to this. Yesterday, here in Boone at our Men's Shavuot retreat, at about the same time you all were batting the Hosea passage back and forth (chap 2 in the Hebrew; chap 1 in the Christian Bibles) we began spontaneously discussing this precise passage! I brought it up and the dozen of us sat in a circle with Bibles in hand and talked about it, working through the Hebrew and so forth. I just thought it was a very amazing congruence between us and all of you on the Dialogue list! Our own sense was that at some point in time (may it be soon and in our time), these three things happen: 1. The unidentified Israelites of the Ten Tribes who number as the sand of the sea, are told by an unidentified source: You are the sons of the Living God, no longer Lo Ami. 2. As a result of this Judah joins with these newly identified Israelites and there is a massive return, under one head. 3. They to "up from the Land," which we took to mean they had come in from the south, but were now headed up north to Jerusalem, with their leader showing the way... This fits with the rest of Hosea about wooing them in the wilderness, and also how the area south by the Dead Sea become a "Petach Tikvah." James On May 30, 2009, at 11:21 PM, kim alvarado wrote: I was referring to Hosea Chapter 2 verses 2 & 3 from last week's Haftorah. ? 2. ?And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and they shall appoint themselves one head, and shall go up out of the land; for great shall be the day of Jezreel. 3.??Say ye unto your brethren: 'Ammi'; and to your sisters, 'Ruhamah.' ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? It appears that Judah and the tribes are gathering outside of Israel and appointing themselves a head to lead them up out of exile...also that the "lost tribes" are recognized by their brother Judah. I realize that other scriptures show a different scenarios...this is just what I see in Hosea who was a prophet primarily for the Northern Kingdom. Kim On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 9:32 PM, wrote: Marvin and Kim, ? Please forgive me for jumping in here but I think Kim is referring to Hosea 1:11. ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ? -------------- Original message from "mhyde" : -------------- Kim, ? If your referring to Hosea 3: 1 ? then yes I would agree it seems to speak of all Israel and not just the ten tribes.? The reason I would say this is because the things listed that Israel did not have also applied to all 12 tribes not just the ten northern.? I don?t quite see from this passage that they appoint themselves a head to lead them out of the land of exile.?? Although I too see a process here, I?m not so sure of who King David is sometimes I lean more toward the historical figure and other times I see the son of David, the future Messiah. ? If a person came forward and proclaimed himself as Messiah, then yes I would say the people could appoint him as their head and then look to him for leadership.? But from your question and from the verse?s in hosea 2 and 3 it seems they(all Israel) is still out of the land when they start? seeking hashem and David their king. ? Marvin ?? ? From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 9:37 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations ? Speaking of processes....what are your thoughts on Hoses II 1-3. ?It seems to be saying that Judah and the tribes will recognize each other as brethren and then appoint themselves a head to lead them out of the land (of exile)...far different from the Christian messiah coming down from the clouds. ?More of a natural process...orchestrated by HaShem, but brought to action by His people. ? Kiim On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:05 AM, mhyde wrote: I have read Dr. Tabors RAF several times and I know he talks about a process, and it seems like I have known that and agreed with the process for years. I was working the other day and meditating on some passages of scripture and as I was thinking I began to understand that when Messiah comes, this is not the end as expected by most people. However it is the beginning... ? The beginning of a new world. ?Now we could all say duh.... we know that. ? I'm reminded of a comment I made some time back about Messiah might be in Israel sometime before the world(Christians) even know he is here. ?Alone with these thoughts, ?I also keep thinking about the comment made about the name of UIWU. ? The more I think on this the more I'm beginning to see how profound or maybe prophetic David Horowtiz was when he named the UNITED ISRAEL - World Union some 60 years ago. Without Israel being united, the world can never be a world union of nations. ?It really is so simple when you begin to see it. ?The prophets saw it but we have been so blinded by the distortions of the church. I think we all can say we read and study and then we catch hold of scripture in a way we have missed in the past. ? Being so immersed in Christian doctrine, after all these years, I still find myself struggling to clean out all the old ideals and completely take hold of torah and the prophets without the influence of pagan, greek, Hellenized Christian influence. ?Isa 27:12 ?And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD will beat off His fruit from the flood of the River unto the Brook of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel. Isa 27:13 ?And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great horn shall be blown; and they shall come that were lost in the land of Assyria, and they that were dispersed in the land of Egypt; and they shall worship the LORD in the holy mountain at Jerusalem. Just think Passover, just behind us, Shavuot here now and we are headed for the seventh month. ?Could this be the year? Lev 23:24 ?Speak unto the children of Israel, saying: In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall be a solemn rest unto you, a memorial proclaimed with the blast of horns, a holy convocation. Lev 23:25 ?Ye shall do no manner of servile work; and ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto the LORD. Lev 23:26 ?And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying: Lev 23:27 ?Howbeit on the tenth day of this seventh month is the day of atonement; there shall be a holy convocation unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls; and ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto the LORD. Shalom, Marvin -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of James Tabor Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 12:36 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations I think that is true but then we have very specific statements about what the one who comes, sits on David's throne, and regathers all of Israel will do, and it is at a specific point in time, as described by the Prophets. Best, James On May 28, 2009, at 11:55 PM, Patty wrote: > Hi Marvin and All, > > Perhaps the Message of Peace can be interpreted on a Personal as > well as > National level. I believe Yeshua BROUGHT peace (the Message of > Peace), and > it was up to the individual to accept or reject it. > > Blessings, > Patty > > -----Original Message----- > From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of mhyde > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:51 PM > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations > > > Hey gang, > > I have a question. ? Christians generally think that when > Messiah(jesus) > comes that he will bring peace to all of us. Good guys go to heaven > and the > bad guys go to hell. > > My question or statement is this. ? I think or am seeing in > scripture, that > when ?Messiah comes he will set things right in Israel. ? The > nations will > see the blessings that come with following the way of Hashem and > they will > also see the cursing that comes with not following the way of Hashem. > Therefore , the nations will then choose to follow the way or not, > but as > I'm seeing it or at least what I'm thinking. So what if Messiah > comes? ?He > will not fix the whole world at once. ?It will be a process, that > begins > with the nation of Israel and then works it's way outward and around > the > entire globe. > > Now if I have not totally missed it, this will create quite a > different > future then the one espoused by Christianity. > > Any thoughts? > > > marvin > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ ? _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/3622e85a/attachment.html From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 22:57:56 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:57:56 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations In-Reply-To: <423426.37705.qm@web30404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <423426.37705.qm@web30404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906012057p1f622f44ga2d05da27842a7b@mail.gmail.com> Betty, Good idea! Most children these days are very computer literate...Maybe we could start with those interested posting their children's ages. The younger ones couldn't chat, but they could hear stories, do activities, and perhaps video conference or call each other. It should to be a group effort. Ross already has a lot on his plate. BTW I restarted this thread another another title: Living the Shema. Thank you for your input. Kim On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Betty Eddy wrote: > I have been reading all the emails and I have a suggestion. It won't help > children of Christians that don't want to hear the truth, but Ross said > something that sparked a thought. I wonder if ROF could have something for > the children. He mentioned Vacation Bible School. Maybe ROF could put > together something like that. Maybe he could podcast something just for > children. It might be different times for different age levels. the kids > need that interaction and involvement as much as the adults. The younger > kids might watch and listen to a story. Maybe the camera could show pictures > of the book and maybe a group of kids their age listening to the story. > Older kids might have a group chat discussion with their input answering > questions like we do on Saturday. I'm just brainstorming, but we all need > the connection to like-minded others. > Betty Eddy > * > * > > > > --- On *Mon, 6/1/09, kim alvarado * wrote: > > > From: kim alvarado > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 10:06 PM > > > Eliron, > I started a new thread on this topic: Living the Shema. I am proposing the > 17 of Tammuz....my reason being listed on that post. > > Shalom and blessings, > Kim > > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:42 PM, > > wrote: > >> Hannah, >> >> I know, I am in full agreement. I'm glad that you made your idea clear to >> to everyone, we need to get started on it. >> >> It's a little different for me, my kids are grown and they can't figure >> out what has happened to thier parents. They look at all of this as a >> simple political situation, they have no clue and they won't listen to >> alternatives. So, from my perspective, this is more complicated. They have >> already rejected Christianity. In thier minds, all religion is false, why >> would they accept our revelations? >> >> This is where Christianity has failed, they held truth, but changed it >> because too many people objected to it, Judiasm does the same thing and it >> is what every prophet, including Yeshua, has railed against. We keep asking >> HaShem how long will it be until you return. I wonder if He is is asking >> how long it will be until we understand! >> >> These are difficult times but they are times in which people like us can >> make a difference. >> >> You are a Hebrew mother and that relationship is a sacred thing in the >> Hebrew faith. In contrast, the American reality, most of our children have >> no clue regarding our forefathers, let alone their beliefs. History is the >> most neglected subject in our society, and at the risk of sounding >> political, Mr, Obama is our prime example. The two-state solution won't >> work, but he is following Carterism. Is he looking for a good solution for >> Israel? No, he is trying to eliminate a pest, so that he can get on with >> more important matters. >> >> To use a Star Trek term, the Prime Directive for Israel (and us) is "to >> remember". To remember His testimony. I think it is time for us to revive >> that, but the question is how? This is the subject of your question. >> >> -- >> Eliron/John. >> >> "Be excellent to each other!" >> Bill and Ted >> >> >> -------------- Original message from kim alvarado < >> kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com>: >> -------------- >> >> Eliron, >> I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should >> focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. >> In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking >> to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart >> for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following >> HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the >> lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us >> how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have >> told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our >> community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn >> together." >> >> BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are >> a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need >> more. >> >> >> In love, >> Kim >> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, >> > wrote: >> >>> Hey James and all, >>> >>> We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple >>> Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up >>> periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of >>> this awakening. >>> >>> Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in >>> prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be >>> decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very >>> appropriate approach. >>> >>> I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks >>> like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of >>> the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others >>> out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not >>> please say so. >>> >>> But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out >>> fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall >>> into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to >>> elaborate on that. >>> >>> What are y'all's thoughts on this? >>> >>> -- >>> Eliron/John. >>> >>> "Be excellent to each other!" >>> Bill and Ted >>> >>> >>> -------------- Original message from James Tabor < >>> jamesdtabor at earthlink.net>: >>> -------------- >>> >>> Okay you guys, listen to this. Yesterday, here in Boone at our Men's >>> Shavuot retreat, at about the same time you all were batting the Hosea >>> passage back and forth (chap 2 in the Hebrew; chap 1 in the Christian >>> Bibles) we began spontaneously discussing this precise passage! I brought it >>> up and the dozen of us sat in a circle with Bibles in hand and talked about >>> it, working through the Hebrew and so forth. I just thought it was a very >>> amazing congruence between us and all of you on the Dialogue list! >>> Our own sense was that at some point in time (may it be soon and in our >>> time), these three things happen: >>> >>> 1. The unidentified Israelites of the Ten Tribes who number as the sand >>> of the sea, are told by an unidentified source: You are the sons of the >>> Living God, no longer Lo Ami. >>> >>> 2. As a result of this Judah joins with these newly identified Israelites >>> and there is a massive return, under one head. >>> >>> 3. They to "up from the Land," which we took to mean they had come in >>> from the south, but were now headed up north to Jerusalem, with their leader >>> showing the way... >>> >>> This fits with the rest of Hosea about wooing them in the wilderness, and >>> also how the area south by the Dead Sea become a "Petach Tikvah." >>> >>> James >>> >>> >>> On May 30, 2009, at 11:21 PM, kim alvarado wrote: >>> >>> I was referring to Hosea Chapter 2 verses 2 & 3 from last week's >>> Haftorah. >>> 2. And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be >>> gathered together, and they shall appoint themselves one head, and shall go >>> up out of the land; for great shall be the day of Jezreel. >>> >>> 3. Say ye unto your brethren: 'Ammi'; and to your sisters, 'Ruhamah.' >>> >>> It appears that Judah and the tribes are gathering outside of Israel and >>> appointing themselves a head to lead them up out of exile...also that the >>> "lost tribes" are recognized by their brother Judah. >>> I realize that other scriptures show a different scenarios...this is just >>> what I see in Hosea who was a prophet primarily for the Northern Kingdom. >>> >>> Kim >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 9:32 PM, >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> Marvin and Kim, >>>> >>>> Please forgive me for jumping in here but I think Kim is referring to >>>> Hosea 1:11. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Eliron/John. >>>> >>>> "Be excellent to each other!" >>>> Bill and Ted >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------- Original message from "mhyde" >: >>>> -------------- >>>> >>>> Kim, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If your referring to Hosea 3: 1 ? then yes I would agree it seems to >>>> speak of all Israel and not just the ten tribes. >>>> >>>> The reason I would say this is because the things listed that Israel did >>>> not have also applied to all 12 tribes not just the ten northern. I don?t >>>> quite see from this passage that they appoint themselves a head to lead them >>>> out of the land of exile. >>>> >>>> Although I too see a process here, I?m not so sure of who King David is >>>> sometimes I lean more toward the historical figure and other times I see the >>>> son of David, the future Messiah. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If a person came forward and proclaimed himself as Messiah, then yes I >>>> would say the people could appoint him as their head and then look to him >>>> for leadership. But from your question and from the verse?s in hosea 2 and >>>> 3 it seems they(all Israel) is still out of the land when they start >>>> seeking hashem and David their king. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Marvin >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org[mailto: >>>> dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] >>>> *On Behalf Of *kim alvarado >>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 29, 2009 9:37 AM >>>> *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Speaking of processes....what are your thoughts on Hoses II 1-3. It >>>> seems to be saying that Judah and the tribes will recognize each other as >>>> brethren and then appoint themselves a head to lead them out of the land (of >>>> exile)...far different from the Christian messiah coming down from the >>>> clouds. More of a natural process...orchestrated by HaShem, but brought to >>>> action by His people. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Kiim >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:05 AM, mhyde > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I have read Dr. Tabors RAF several times and I know he talks about a >>>> process, and it seems like I have known that and agreed with the process >>>> for >>>> years. I was working the other day and meditating on some passages of >>>> scripture and as I was thinking I began to understand that when Messiah >>>> comes, this is not the end as expected by most people. However it is the >>>> beginning... The beginning of a new world. Now we could all say >>>> duh.... >>>> we know that. I'm reminded of a comment I made some time back about >>>> Messiah might be in Israel sometime before the world(Christians) even >>>> know >>>> he is here. Alone with these thoughts, I also keep thinking about the >>>> comment made about the name of UIWU. The more I think on this the more >>>> I'm >>>> beginning to see how profound or maybe prophetic David Horowtiz was when >>>> he >>>> named the UNITED ISRAEL - World Union some 60 years ago. >>>> >>>> Without Israel being united, the world can never be a world union of >>>> nations. It really is so simple when you begin to see it. The prophets >>>> saw >>>> it but we have been so blinded by the distortions of the church. >>>> >>>> I think we all can say we read and study and then we catch hold of >>>> scripture >>>> in a way we have missed in the past. Being so immersed in Christian >>>> doctrine, after all these years, I still find myself struggling to clean >>>> out >>>> all the old ideals and completely take hold of torah and the prophets >>>> without the influence of pagan, greek, Hellenized Christian influence. >>>> >>>> >>>> Isa 27:12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD will >>>> beat >>>> off His fruit from the flood of the River unto the Brook of Egypt, and >>>> ye >>>> shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel. >>>> Isa 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great horn >>>> shall be >>>> blown; and they shall come that were lost in the land of Assyria, and >>>> they >>>> that were dispersed in the land of Egypt; and they shall worship the >>>> LORD in >>>> the holy mountain at Jerusalem. >>>> >>>> Just think Passover, just behind us, Shavuot here now and we are headed >>>> for >>>> the seventh month. Could this be the year? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying: In the seventh >>>> month, >>>> in the first day of the month, shall be a solemn rest unto you, a >>>> memorial >>>> proclaimed with the blast of horns, a holy convocation. >>>> Lev 23:25 Ye shall do no manner of servile work; and ye shall bring an >>>> offering made by fire unto the LORD. >>>> Lev 23:26 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying: >>>> Lev 23:27 Howbeit on the tenth day of this seventh month is the day of >>>> atonement; there shall be a holy convocation unto you, and ye shall >>>> afflict >>>> your souls; and ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto the LORD. >>>> >>>> Shalom, >>>> Marvin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >>>> >>>> [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] >>>> On Behalf Of James Tabor >>>> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 12:36 AM >>>> To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations >>>> >>>> I think that is true but then we have very specific statements about >>>> what the one who comes, sits on David's throne, and regathers all of >>>> Israel will do, and it is at a specific point in time, as described by >>>> the Prophets. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> James >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 28, 2009, at 11:55 PM, Patty wrote: >>>> >>>> > Hi Marvin and All, >>>> > >>>> > Perhaps the Message of Peace can be interpreted on a Personal as >>>> > well as >>>> > National level. I believe Yeshua BROUGHT peace (the Message of >>>> > Peace), and >>>> > it was up to the individual to accept or reject it. >>>> > >>>> > Blessings, >>>> > Patty >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >>>> > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] >>>> On Behalf Of mhyde >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:51 PM >>>> > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >>>> > Subject: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Hey gang, >>>> > >>>> > I have a question. Christians generally think that when >>>> > Messiah(jesus) >>>> > comes that he will bring peace to all of us. Good guys go to heaven >>>> > and the >>>> > bad guys go to hell. >>>> > >>>> > My question or statement is this. I think or am seeing in >>>> > scripture, that >>>> > when Messiah comes he will set things right in Israel. The >>>> > nations will >>>> > see the blessings that come with following the way of Hashem and >>>> > they will >>>> > also see the cursing that comes with not following the way of Hashem. >>>> > Therefore , the nations will then choose to follow the way or not, >>>> > but as >>>> > I'm seeing it or at least what I'm thinking. So what if Messiah >>>> > comes? He >>>> > will not fix the whole world at once. It will be a process, that >>>> > begins >>>> > with the nation of Israel and then works it's way outward and around >>>> > the >>>> > entire globe. >>>> > >>>> > Now if I have not totally missed it, this will create quite a >>>> > different >>>> > future then the one espoused by Christianity. >>>> > >>>> > Any thoughts? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > marvin >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090601/d012332b/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 1 23:51:10 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:51:10 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema In-Reply-To: <1c8dbb6e0906012000k46d46f62t2c34cb9acc582eed@mail.gmail.com> References: <426419.45634.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com><17E2B3B134444BA4BF01707194E959E9@MarvinLT> <1c8dbb6e0906012000k46d46f62t2c34cb9acc582eed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <060220090451.9869.4A24AFBD000547D40000268D22228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Hey Hannah, Are you proposing that Tammuz 17 be the day of prayer on this subject or the day of teaching, or both? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from kim alvarado : -------------- I appreciate everyone's input on this topic. I believe most of us have been praying about this topic and already have some good ideas. What I propose in continued prayer as well as one setting aside one day to really concentrate on teaching our children and others. I would like to post an event on SWW and also to a note to the dialogue. The date that I have in mind is Tammuz 17 (July 8-July9). It is already a day set aside for prayer and fasting on the Hebrew Calendar. I also propose this date because the Torah portion for this week is Pinchas. The Torah and Haftorah reading seem to be appropriate. Any comments or alternative suggestions? I would like to post this asap, and then set up another time soon after to bounce ideas back and forth. Love to you all, Kim On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:50 PM, mhyde wrote: I agree with you Margie, pat and Catherine. We must try to sow seed in any way and in every place we go. And especially with our young children and grandchildren. Maybe God is using all those dead and boring sermons, to get his people to start reading his torah. Never thought of it like that. A friend of my years ago told me that the great commission in Matthew that is oft repeated as the command to evangelize should really be understood not as a command, but in the sense of ?as you go? just sowing seed as you go. marvin From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of creechmargie at yahoo.com Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:57 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I hope I'm not missing the jest of all this but I say we do go and tell. We may think they are not listening but I believe every person we tell is a seed planted. I remember not to long after I was awakened from my slumber of not considering G-d at all, and I did come to His Word by the "Jesus" doctrine, there was a women in a Bible study who kept spouting off about the Sabbath and following Torah. It seemed everyone in the group blew her off as a nut and a trouble maker. But what she said struck a chord in my heart and so started my journey. Her words inspired me to search the Word for truth. When I did begin to read the entire story, and most of you know it was with a bunch of 14-16 year old "christian" indoctrinated kids, I saw HaShem work in their lives in an unbelievable way. Not all of them were interested, but most of them saw that something did not jive with what they had been taught and what the Word actually said. My four children all know the truth, they don't necessarily live Torah right now but I believe that as the times continue to darken that HaShem will stir in them what they have heard and learned and it will come alive. Just recently my oldest son has been coming around to facing some very hard things about what he has believed. It has taken years and I wasn't sure if they had heard anything I'd tried to teach them. I think the most important thing we can do is pray for our children and the people around us but also take it to the "doing" phase. It is so easy to become discouraged and irritated at the ones that have not seen truth but we may never see the end result, although if you think about it, we are seeing it. If someone had told me that I would believe the way I do now years ago I would have thought them crazy or even worse that they were from the pits of hell. I don't evangelize but I do tell anyone and everyone that will listen and sometimes those who won't. (which seems like most at this point) Most of my telling is now by email which is a wonderful tool because you can show them scripture and they read it and have to deal with it. Like it's been said, the biggest problem is that they only sit in church listening to a scripture here and there out of context usually with a preacher that has his own agenda and livelihood to worry about. We have brothers in prisons all around us, being behind bars is not the only form of prison, but I feel that I was a prisoner of all the false teaching that had been passed down generation after generation. HaShem, Torah, and one woman in a Bible study were the key that began to set me free. Margie --- On Sun, 5/31/09, mhyde wrote: From: mhyde Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:48 PM I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America. But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what?? someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon??. It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going?.. but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time?.. I have no answer?. I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don?t see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I?m missing something?.. but I?m believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. I?m done venting?? but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. Shalom, Ya?ll From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/a20894c3/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Tue Jun 2 00:45:52 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:45:52 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema In-Reply-To: <1c8dbb6e0906012057p1f622f44ga2d05da27842a7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <423426.37705.qm@web30404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1c8dbb6e0906012057p1f622f44ga2d05da27842a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1BFC7F658F6B45DCB4AD14C9DF9C5D01@bettylaptop> Good idea, I agree, but Ross does have a lot on his plate already as you said, Kim. Changed the thread to the one you started, Kim. Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:58 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations Betty, Good idea! Most children these days are very computer literate...Maybe we could start with those interested posting their children's ages. The younger ones couldn't chat, but they could hear stories, do activities, and perhaps video conference or call each other. It should to be a group effort. Ross already has a lot on his plate. BTW I restarted this thread another another title: Living the Shema. Thank you for your input. Kim On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Betty Eddy wrote: I have been reading all the emails and I have a suggestion. It won't help children of Christians that don't want to hear the truth, but Ross said something that sparked a thought. I wonder if ROF could have something for the children. He mentioned Vacation Bible School. Maybe ROF could put together something like that. Maybe he could podcast something just for children. It might be different times for different age levels. the kids need that interaction and involvement as much as the adults. The younger kids might watch and listen to a story. Maybe the camera could show pictures of the book and maybe a group of kids their age listening to the story. Older kids might have a group chat discussion with their input answering questions like we do on Saturday. I'm just brainstorming, but we all need the connection to like-minded others. Betty Eddy --- On Mon, 6/1/09, kim alvarado wrote: From: kim alvarado Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 10:06 PM Eliron, I started a new thread on this topic: Living the Shema. I am proposing the 17 of Tammuz....my reason being listed on that post. Shalom and blessings, Kim On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:42 PM, > wrote: Hannah, I know, I am in full agreement. I'm glad that you made your idea clear to to everyone, we need to get started on it. It's a little different for me, my kids are grown and they can't figure out what has happened to thier parents. They look at all of this as a simple political situation, they have no clue and they won't listen to alternatives. So, from my perspective, this is more complicated. They have already rejected Christianity. In thier minds, all religion is false, why would they accept our revelations? This is where Christianity has failed, they held truth, but changed it because too many people objected to it, Judiasm does the same thing and it is what every prophet, including Yeshua, has railed against. We keep asking HaShem how long will it be until you return. I wonder if He is is asking how long it will be until we understand! These are difficult times but they are times in which people like us can make a difference. You are a Hebrew mother and that relationship is a sacred thing in the Hebrew faith. In contrast, the American reality, most of our children have no clue regarding our forefathers, let alone their beliefs. History is the most neglected subject in our society, and at the risk of sounding political, Mr, Obama is our prime example. The two-state solution won't work, but he is following Carterism. Is he looking for a good solution for Israel? No, he is trying to eliminate a pest, so that he can get on with more important matters. To use a Star Trek term, the Prime Directive for Israel (and us) is "to remember". To remember His testimony. I think it is time for us to revive that, but the question is how? This is the subject of your question. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from kim alvarado >: -------------- Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, > wrote: Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from James Tabor >: -------------- Okay you guys, listen to this. Yesterday, here in Boone at our Men's Shavuot retreat, at about the same time you all were batting the Hosea passage back and forth (chap 2 in the Hebrew; chap 1 in the Christian Bibles) we began spontaneously discussing this precise passage! I brought it up and the dozen of us sat in a circle with Bibles in hand and talked about it, working through the Hebrew and so forth. I just thought it was a very amazing congruence between us and all of you on the Dialogue list! Our own sense was that at some point in time (may it be soon and in our time), these three things happen: 1. The unidentified Israelites of the Ten Tribes who number as the sand of the sea, are told by an unidentified source: You are the sons of the Living God, no longer Lo Ami. 2. As a result of this Judah joins with these newly identified Israelites and there is a massive return, under one head. 3. They to "up from the Land," which we took to mean they had come in from the south, but were now headed up north to Jerusalem, with their leader showing the way... This fits with the rest of Hosea about wooing them in the wilderness, and also how the area south by the Dead Sea become a "Petach Tikvah." James On May 30, 2009, at 11:21 PM, kim alvarado wrote: I was referring to Hosea Chapter 2 verses 2 & 3 from last week's Haftorah. 2. And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and they shall appoint themselves one head, and shall go up out of the land; for great shall be the day of Jezreel. 3. Say ye unto your brethren: 'Ammi'; and to your sisters, 'Ruhamah.' It appears that Judah and the tribes are gathering outside of Israel and appointing themselves a head to lead them up out of exile...also that the "lost tribes" are recognized by their brother Judah. I realize that other scriptures show a different scenarios...this is just what I see in Hosea who was a prophet primarily for the Northern Kingdom. Kim On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 9:32 PM, > wrote: Marvin and Kim, Please forgive me for jumping in here but I think Kim is referring to Hosea 1:11. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "mhyde" >: -------------- Kim, If your referring to Hosea 3: 1 - then yes I would agree it seems to speak of all Israel and not just the ten tribes. The reason I would say this is because the things listed that Israel did not have also applied to all 12 tribes not just the ten northern. I don't quite see from this passage that they appoint themselves a head to lead them out of the land of exile. Although I too see a process here, I'm not so sure of who King David is sometimes I lean more toward the historical figure and other times I see the son of David, the future Messiah. If a person came forward and proclaimed himself as Messiah, then yes I would say the people could appoint him as their head and then look to him for leadership. But from your question and from the verse's in hosea 2 and 3 it seems they(all Israel) is still out of the land when they start seeking hashem and David their king. Marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org ] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 9:37 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations Speaking of processes....what are your thoughts on Hoses II 1-3. It seems to be saying that Judah and the tribes will recognize each other as brethren and then appoint themselves a head to lead them out of the land (of exile)...far different from the Christian messiah coming down from the clouds. More of a natural process...orchestrated by HaShem, but brought to action by His people. Kiim On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:05 AM, mhyde > wrote: I have read Dr. Tabors RAF several times and I know he talks about a process, and it seems like I have known that and agreed with the process for years. I was working the other day and meditating on some passages of scripture and as I was thinking I began to understand that when Messiah comes, this is not the end as expected by most people. However it is the beginning... The beginning of a new world. Now we could all say duh.... we know that. I'm reminded of a comment I made some time back about Messiah might be in Israel sometime before the world(Christians) even know he is here. Alone with these thoughts, I also keep thinking about the comment made about the name of UIWU. The more I think on this the more I'm beginning to see how profound or maybe prophetic David Horowtiz was when he named the UNITED ISRAEL - World Union some 60 years ago. Without Israel being united, the world can never be a world union of nations. It really is so simple when you begin to see it. The prophets saw it but we have been so blinded by the distortions of the church. I think we all can say we read and study and then we catch hold of scripture in a way we have missed in the past. Being so immersed in Christian doctrine, after all these years, I still find myself struggling to clean out all the old ideals and completely take hold of torah and the prophets without the influence of pagan, greek, Hellenized Christian influence. Isa 27:12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD will beat off His fruit from the flood of the River unto the Brook of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel. Isa 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great horn shall be blown; and they shall come that were lost in the land of Assyria, and they that were dispersed in the land of Egypt; and they shall worship the LORD in the holy mountain at Jerusalem. Just think Passover, just behind us, Shavuot here now and we are headed for the seventh month. Could this be the year? Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying: In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall be a solemn rest unto you, a memorial proclaimed with the blast of horns, a holy convocation. Lev 23:25 Ye shall do no manner of servile work; and ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto the LORD. Lev 23:26 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying: Lev 23:27 Howbeit on the tenth day of this seventh month is the day of atonement; there shall be a holy convocation unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls; and ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto the LORD. Shalom, Marvin -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org ] On Behalf Of James Tabor Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 12:36 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations I think that is true but then we have very specific statements about what the one who comes, sits on David's throne, and regathers all of Israel will do, and it is at a specific point in time, as described by the Prophets. Best, James On May 28, 2009, at 11:55 PM, Patty wrote: > Hi Marvin and All, > > Perhaps the Message of Peace can be interpreted on a Personal as > well as > National level. I believe Yeshua BROUGHT peace (the Message of > Peace), and > it was up to the individual to accept or reject it. > > Blessings, > Patty > > -----Original Message----- > From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org ] On Behalf Of mhyde > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:51 PM > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Dialogue] Messiah and the nations > > > Hey gang, > > I have a question. Christians generally think that when > Messiah(jesus) > comes that he will bring peace to all of us. Good guys go to heaven > and the > bad guys go to hell. > > My question or statement is this. I think or am seeing in > scripture, that > when Messiah comes he will set things right in Israel. The > nations will > see the blessings that come with following the way of Hashem and > they will > also see the cursing that comes with not following the way of Hashem. > Therefore , the nations will then choose to follow the way or not, > but as > I'm seeing it or at least what I'm thinking. So what if Messiah > comes? He > will not fix the whole world at once. It will be a process, that > begins > with the nation of Israel and then works it's way outward and around > the > entire globe. > > Now if I have not totally missed it, this will create quite a > different > future then the one espoused by Christianity. > > Any thoughts? > > > marvin > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/70deb1a6/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Tue Jun 2 00:51:05 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:51:05 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema In-Reply-To: <060220090451.9869.4A24AFBD000547D40000268D22228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <426419.45634.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com><17E2B3B134444BA4BF01707194E959E9@MarvinLT> <1c8dbb6e0906012000k46d46f62t2c34cb9acc582eed@mail.gmail.com> <060220090451.9869.4A24AFBD000547D40000268D22228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: I am very behind on email and have missed much of this thread, but from what I read, I think this is a great idea. Although my children are all grown and have families of their own, I can certainly identify with the importance of setting aside a special day. And Kim, I think 17 Tammuz would be very good.Pinchas is very appropriate. I also liked your idea in your response to Betty Eddy regarding posting the children's ages.they need to be in on all of this too.brainstorming and bouncing ideas back and forth would be a great start. Love, Elisheva/Betty/aka Mom _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 11:51 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Living the Shema Hey Hannah, Are you proposing that Tammuz 17 be the day of prayer on this subject or the day of teaching, or both? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from kim alvarado : -------------- I appreciate everyone's input on this topic. I believe most of us have been praying about this topic and already have some good ideas. What I propose in continued prayer as well as one setting aside one day to really concentrate on teaching our children and others. I would like to post an event on SWW and also to a note to the dialogue. The date that I have in mind is Tammuz 17 (July 8-July9). It is already a day set aside for prayer and fasting on the Hebrew Calendar. I also propose this date because the Torah portion for this week is Pinchas. The Torah and Haftorah reading seem to be appropriate. Any comments or alternative suggestions? I would like to post this asap, and then set up another time soon after to bounce ideas back and forth. Love to you all, Kim On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:50 PM, mhyde wrote: I agree with you Margie, pat and Catherine. We must try to sow seed in any way and in every place we go. And especially with our young children and grandchildren. Maybe God is using all those dead and boring sermons, to get his people to start reading his torah. Never thought of it like that. A friend of my years ago told me that the great commission in Matthew that is oft repeated as the command to evangelize should really be understood not as a command, but in the sense of "as you go" just sowing seed as you go. marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of creechmargie at yahoo.com Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:57 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I hope I'm not missing the jest of all this but I say we do go and tell. We may think they are not listening but I believe every person we tell is a seed planted. I remember not to long after I was awakened from my slumber of not considering G-d at all, and I did come to His Word by the "Jesus" doctrine, there was a women in a Bible study who kept spouting off about the Sabbath and following Torah. It seemed everyone in the group blew her off as a nut and a trouble maker. But what she said struck a chord in my heart and so started my journey. Her words inspired me to search the Word for truth. When I did begin to read the entire story, and most of you know it was with a bunch of 14-16 year old "christian" indoctrinated kids, I saw HaShem work in their lives in an unbelievable way. Not all of them were interested, but most of them saw that something did not jive with what they had been taught and what the Word actually said. My four children all know the truth, they don't necessarily live Torah right now but I believe that as the times continue to darken that HaShem will stir in them what they have heard and learned and it will come alive. Just recently my oldest son has been coming around to facing some very hard things about what he has believed. It has taken years and I wasn't sure if they had heard anything I'd tried to teach them. I think the most important thing we can do is pray for our children and the people around us but also take it to the "doing" phase. It is so easy to become discouraged and irritated at the ones that have not seen truth but we may never see the end result, although if you think about it, we are seeing it. If someone had told me that I would believe the way I do now years ago I would have thought them crazy or even worse that they were from the pits of hell. I don't evangelize but I do tell anyone and everyone that will listen and sometimes those who won't. (which seems like most at this point) Most of my telling is now by email which is a wonderful tool because you can show them scripture and they read it and have to deal with it. Like it's been said, the biggest problem is that they only sit in church listening to a scripture here and there out of context usually with a preacher that has his own agenda and livelihood to worry about. We have brothers in prisons all around us, being behind bars is not the only form of prison, but I feel that I was a prisoner of all the false teaching that had been passed down generation after generation. HaShem, Torah, and one woman in a Bible study were the key that began to set me free. Margie --- On Sun, 5/31/09, mhyde wrote: From: mhyde Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:48 PM I don't think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda -mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial.. they would rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America. But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don't.. it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what.. someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon... It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going... but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time... I have no answer.. I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don't see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I'm missing something... but I'm believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. I'm done venting.. but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. Shalom, Ya'll _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, < carlson_john at bellsouth.net> wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/5e210175/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Tue Jun 2 00:56:10 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:56:10 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Mesiah and the Nations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <94CE563C7B00451FAAB9A6270304020B@bettylaptop> Wow, Sandra, you put a lot of time and thought into this post! Even though I may not see things exactly the same on all the points you make, I agree with a lot of what you said.but too tired tonight to discuss. But I did want to send you a quick "thank you!" I appreciate your diligence to study. Love and Shalom, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Sandra Inglis Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 1:20 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Mesiah and the Nations Hi Hosea 2:1-2 corresponds to Hosea 1:10-11 in the JPS 1917 version. Hosea 1:9 And He said: 'Call his name Lo-ammi; for ye are not My people, and I will not be yours.' Hosea 1:10 (2:1) Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass that, instead of that which was said unto them: 'Ye are not My people', it shall be said unto them: 'Ye are the children of the living God.' Hosea 1:11 (2:2) And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and they shall appoint themselves one head, and shall go up out of the land; for great shall be the day of Jezreel. It is obvious to me that Israel spoken of here are from the Northern Kingdom. Judah has never been told, "Ye are not my people." Judah has always been known as the people of YeHoWaH. Israel the Northern Kingdom were told, "Ye are not my people." Verse 10 tells us that the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass that, instead of that which was said unto them: 'Ye are not My people', it shall be said unto them: 'Ye are the children of the living God.' Verse 11 tells us that the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together. The children of Israel and the children of Judah come together as one. They are 2 separate groups to start with and they gather together and become one group. Other Scriptures show us that Israel will be gathered together and will be united with Judah. The following passage shows us that YeHoWaH will raise the whole House of Israel from the dead. This is the time when King David will be resurrected. YeHoWaH will also gather all the children of Israel from where they have been scattered and will bring them together, then He will join Judah, and the children of Israel his companions; and Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and of all the house of Israel his companions then they will become one nation. Up till this time they are separate groups. Judah consisting of Judah and the children of Israel who have joined themselves to Judah, and Joseph consisting of Ephraim and all the house of Israel who are his companions. They will be joined together after the resurrection of the whole house of Israel and the risen King David will be King over them. Hosea tells us the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and they shall appoint themselves one head, and shall go up out of the land; for great shall be the day of Jezreel. When we put the scriptures together and realise they are speaking of the same time it is obvious that the leader whom they will appoint will be the risn King David. It is logical if King David is in there presence why would they appoint a son of David? The resurrected King David would certainly be my choice, as the Tanakh reveals he is YeHoWaH's choice. Ezekiel 37:1-28 The hand of YeHoWaH was upon me, and YeHoWaH carried me out in a spirit, and set me down in the midst of the valley, and it was full of bones; and He caused me to pass by them round about, and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. And He said unto me: 'Son of man, can these bones live?' And I answered: 'O Lord YeHoWaH, Thou knowest.' Then He said unto me: 'Prophesy over these bones, and say unto them: O ye dry bones, hear the word of YeHoWaH: Thus saith the Lord YeHoWaH unto these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am YeHoWaH.' So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a commotion, and the bones came together, bone to its bone. And I beheld, and, lo, there were sinews upon them, and flesh came up, and skin covered them above; but there was no breath in them. Then said He unto me: 'Prophesy unto the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath: Thus saith the Lord YeHoWaH: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.' So I prophesied as He commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great host. Then He said unto me: 'Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say: Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are clean cut off. Therefore prophesy, and say unto them: Thus saith the Lord YeHoWaH: Behold, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, O My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am YeHoWaH, when I have opened your graves, and caused you to come up out of your graves, O My people. And I will put My spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I will place you in your own land; and ye shall know that I YeHoWaH have spoken, and performed it, saith YeHoWaH.' And the word of YeHoWaH came unto me, saying: 'And thou, son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it: For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions; then take another stick, and write upon it: For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and of all the house of Israel his companions; and join them for thee one to another into one stick, that they may become one in thy hand. And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying: Wilt thou not tell us what thou meanest by these? say into them: Thus saith the Lord YeHoWaH: Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his companions; and I will put them unto him together with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in My hand. And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thy hand before their eyes. And say unto them: Thus saith the Lord YeHoWaH: Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, whither they are gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be king to them all; and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all; neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will save them out of all their dwelling-places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them; so shall they be My people, and I will be their God. And My servant David shall be king over them, and they all shall have one shepherd; they shall also walk in Mine ordinances, and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob My servant, wherein your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, they, and their children, and their children's children, for ever; and David My servant shall be their prince for ever. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them - it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will establish them, and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in the midst of them for ever. My dwelling-place also shall be over them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And the nations shall know that I am YeHoWaH that sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for ever.' Jeremiah chapter 3 also speaks of Judah being joined with the House of Israel who have been gathered together in the land of the north and of them being brought together into the land promised to their fathers. Jeremiah 3:6-25 And YeHoWaH said unto me in the days of Josiah the king: 'Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel did? she went up upon every high mountain and under every leafy tree, and there played the harlot. And I said: After she hath done all these things, she will return unto me; but she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. And I saw, when, forasmuch as backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a bill of divorcement, that yet treacherous Judah her sister feared not; but she also went and played the harlot; and it came to pass through the lightness of her harlotry, that the land was polluted, and she committed adultery with stones and with stocks; and yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not returned unto Me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith YeHoWaH - even YeHoWaH said unto me - backsliding Israel hath proved herself more righteous than treacherous Judah. Go, and proclaim these words toward the north, and say: Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith YeHoWaH; I will not frown upon you; for I am merciful, saith YeHoWaH, I will not bear grudge for ever. Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against YeHoWaH thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every leafy tree, and ye have not hearkened to My voice, saith YeHoWaH. Return, O backsliding children, saith YeHoWaH; for I am a lord unto you, and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion; and I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. And it shall come to pass, when ye are multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith YeHoWaH, they shall say no more: The ark of the covenant of YeHoWaH; neither shall it come to mind; neither shall they make mention of it; neither shall they miss it; neither shall it be made any more. At that time they shall call Jerusalem The throne of YeHoWaH; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of YeHoWaH, to Jerusalem; neither shall they walk any more after the stubbornness of their evil heart. In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.' But I said: 'How would I put thee among the sons, and give thee a pleasant land, the goodliest heritage of the nations!' And I said: 'Thou shalt call Me, My father; and shalt not turn away from following Me.' Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with Me, O house of Israel, saith YeHoWaH. Hark! upon the high hills is heard the suppliant weeping of the children of Israel; for that they have perverted their way, they have forgotten YeHoWaH their God. Return, ye backsliding children, I will heal your backslidings. - 'Here we are, we are come unto Thee; for Thou art YeHoWaH our God. Truly vain have proved the hills, the uproar on the mountains; truly in YeHoWaH our God is the salvation of Israel. But the shameful thing hath devoured the labour of our fathers from our youth; their flocks and their herds, their sons and their daughters. Let us lie down in our shame, and let our confusion cover us; for we have sinned against YeHoWaH our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day; and we have not hearkened to the voice of YeHoWaH our God.' Jeremiah 23:7-8 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith YeHoWaH, that they shall no more say: 'As YeHoWaH liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt'; but: 'As YeHoWaH liveth, that brought up and that led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all the countries whither I had driven them'; and they shall dwell in their own land. Judah and Israel are now seperate groups and will continue to be separate until they are joined together in the North Country and be brought into the land of their fathers then Israel will once more be one nation. All of the prophecies for the House of Israel before this time are separate to the prophecies for the house of Judah. YeHoWaH is dealing separately with each group until they have repented of their sins and have returned to Him with all of their heart, then He will bring them together and they will become one nation, David will be King over them and YeHoWaH will be their God. Ezekiel 11:14-20 And the word of YeHoWaH came unto me, saying: 'Son of man, as for thy brethren, even thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel, all of them, concerning whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said: Get you far from YeHoWaH! unto us is this land given for a possession; therefore say: Thus saith the Lord YeHoWaH: Although I have removed them far off among the nations, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet have I been to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they are come; therefore say: Thus saith the Lord YeHoWaH: I will even gather you from the peoples, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh; that they may walk in My statutes, and keep Mine ordinances, and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/8f384da9/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Tue Jun 2 01:14:51 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:14:51 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema P.S. In-Reply-To: References: <426419.45634.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com><17E2B3B134444BA4BF01707194E959E9@MarvinLT> <1c8dbb6e0906012000k46d46f62t2c34cb9acc582eed@mail.gmail.com> <060220090451.9869.4A24AFBD000547D40000268D22228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <4084A097185D475CB3A4429986F51AFC@bettylaptop> Kim, and all, It just dawned on me that although I was behind on my email, and missed much of this discussion, that I have been very much in the same mindset as you and others regarding "Living the Shema." We had a very small Torah service this past Shabbat and during the Shema, I became so emotional that I lost it. I ended up attempting to explain how that when you and your sisters were little, that I did attempt to "live the Shema" and teach you girls when we walked by the way, when we went to bed at night and when we got up in the morning, but that it breaks my heart to think that I taught you and your sisters wrong! Yet, even so, you sought HaShem in your later years and are now following the One G-d of Israel as am I. There was not a dry eye amongst the 6 of us present! My brothers and sisters of Judah loved, accepted and comforted me, telling me that they believed that I had done the best that I could at the time and that we cannot go back. The rabbi even told me that I should be "kind" to myself. He was so kind and loving.it makes me tear up even now! I just felt the need to share that as a word of encouragement.to you and to all.we all make mistakes.and all we can do is to walk each day that we have now with HaShem and endeavor to truly love Him with all our heart, all our soul and all our strength, and to go from there.teaching our children as we can in the now! My love to you and to all, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Betty K Givin Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:51 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I am very behind on email and have missed much of this thread, but from what I read, I think this is a great idea. Although my children are all grown and have families of their own, I can certainly identify with the importance of setting aside a special day. And Kim, I think 17 Tammuz would be very good.Pinchas is very appropriate. I also liked your idea in your response to Betty Eddy regarding posting the children's ages.they need to be in on all of this too.brainstorming and bouncing ideas back and forth would be a great start. Love, Elisheva/Betty/aka Mom _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 11:51 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Living the Shema Hey Hannah, Are you proposing that Tammuz 17 be the day of prayer on this subject or the day of teaching, or both? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from kim alvarado : -------------- I appreciate everyone's input on this topic. I believe most of us have been praying about this topic and already have some good ideas. What I propose in continued prayer as well as one setting aside one day to really concentrate on teaching our children and others. I would like to post an event on SWW and also to a note to the dialogue. The date that I have in mind is Tammuz 17 (July 8-July9). It is already a day set aside for prayer and fasting on the Hebrew Calendar. I also propose this date because the Torah portion for this week is Pinchas. The Torah and Haftorah reading seem to be appropriate. Any comments or alternative suggestions? I would like to post this asap, and then set up another time soon after to bounce ideas back and forth. Love to you all, Kim On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:50 PM, mhyde wrote: I agree with you Margie, pat and Catherine. We must try to sow seed in any way and in every place we go. And especially with our young children and grandchildren. Maybe God is using all those dead and boring sermons, to get his people to start reading his torah. Never thought of it like that. A friend of my years ago told me that the great commission in Matthew that is oft repeated as the command to evangelize should really be understood not as a command, but in the sense of "as you go" just sowing seed as you go. marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of creechmargie at yahoo.com Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:57 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I hope I'm not missing the jest of all this but I say we do go and tell. We may think they are not listening but I believe every person we tell is a seed planted. I remember not to long after I was awakened from my slumber of not considering G-d at all, and I did come to His Word by the "Jesus" doctrine, there was a women in a Bible study who kept spouting off about the Sabbath and following Torah. It seemed everyone in the group blew her off as a nut and a trouble maker. But what she said struck a chord in my heart and so started my journey. Her words inspired me to search the Word for truth. When I did begin to read the entire story, and most of you know it was with a bunch of 14-16 year old "christian" indoctrinated kids, I saw HaShem work in their lives in an unbelievable way. Not all of them were interested, but most of them saw that something did not jive with what they had been taught and what the Word actually said. My four children all know the truth, they don't necessarily live Torah right now but I believe that as the times continue to darken that HaShem will stir in them what they have heard and learned and it will come alive. Just recently my oldest son has been coming around to facing some very hard things about what he has believed. It has taken years and I wasn't sure if they had heard anything I'd tried to teach them. I think the most important thing we can do is pray for our children and the people around us but also take it to the "doing" phase. It is so easy to become discouraged and irritated at the ones that have not seen truth but we may never see the end result, although if you think about it, we are seeing it. If someone had told me that I would believe the way I do now years ago I would have thought them crazy or even worse that they were from the pits of hell. I don't evangelize but I do tell anyone and everyone that will listen and sometimes those who won't. (which seems like most at this point) Most of my telling is now by email which is a wonderful tool because you can show them scripture and they read it and have to deal with it. Like it's been said, the biggest problem is that they only sit in church listening to a scripture here and there out of context usually with a preacher that has his own agenda and livelihood to worry about. We have brothers in prisons all around us, being behind bars is not the only form of prison, but I feel that I was a prisoner of all the false teaching that had been passed down generation after generation. HaShem, Torah, and one woman in a Bible study were the key that began to set me free. Margie --- On Sun, 5/31/09, mhyde wrote: From: mhyde Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:48 PM I don't think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda -mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial.. they would rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America. But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don't.. it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what.. someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon... It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going... but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time... I have no answer.. I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don't see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I'm missing something... but I'm believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. I'm done venting.. but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. Shalom, Ya'll _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, < carlson_john at bellsouth.net> wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/dcee729a/attachment.html From im50332 at bigpond.net.au Tue Jun 2 04:10:11 2009 From: im50332 at bigpond.net.au (Pamela Barbera) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:10:11 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Patricia, keep up the good work. There are blessings in perservering with grand kids. I have other friends who have done this and now see at least one of those children start to walk with Hashem. Kol Tov, Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: Patricia To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have often wondered WHY people can't see what is so plainly written in the Hebrew Bible? I believe it is because of their comfort level as you say, Marvin. It truly is comforting to sit in a pew and be told how right you are. Why would they switch when they are not only reassured of their "saved" status, and encouraged at every possible turn in life, but are also sternly reminded that to disagree means eternal damnation? Their churches leave no room for argument. The people are only offered two alternatives: twisted church dogma or Hell. And IF the pastors allowed themselves to diligently SEARCH (not just reassert), then preach what they have found, they would soon go bankrupt. Being caught in this cycle is very much akin to being slaves in Egypt. I think this is why we are promised that a Prophet "like unto Moses" will arise to confront Pharaoh's gods. I also think that is why Elijah must Return and challenge the prophets of Baal again, with the Power of the One True G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It was OUR very ancestors who watched this monumental Battle over two and a half millennia ago, and SAW the Fire of HaShem fall on Elijah's sacrifice, entirely consuming it! One thing I have been doing is implanting in my Grandkids' minds that Moses was a real-life super hero. I found the Prince of Egypt cartoon movie a good tool. We also watched The Ten Commandments together. We would often pause it and talk about the incredible Power of G-d and how He chose Moses and empowered him to save his people, by proving Pharaoh wrong! They are still asking for Moses books from the library so that we can read about him again and again. I'm thinking that now I need to teach them about how Elijah was also a Super Hero of G-d. It has occurred to me that maybe I could get them interested in writing our own story book about Elijah, and how he fought against the lies of a false belief system. Our discussions do occasionally cause my daughter-in-law to limit my time with them, and that's hurtful, but it is more important that they get the idea that there is ONLY ONE G-D AND HE USES HIS SUPER HEROES TO CHALLENGE ALL THAT IS FALSE, than to remain in my comfort zone with them. I am really hoping that we, as a group, can seek HaShem and come up with inspired ideas to confront the prophets of Baal TODAY!!!!! Avigail/Pat From: mhyde Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:48 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I don't think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda -mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial.. they would rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America. But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don't.. it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what.. someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon... It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going... but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time... I have no answer.. I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don't see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I'm missing something... but I'm believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. I'm done venting.. but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. Shalom, Ya'll ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/5630b627/attachment.html From dstone34 at cox.net Tue Jun 2 07:30:30 2009 From: dstone34 at cox.net (Diana Stone) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 07:30:30 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] The Bible, Science, and Their Fusion Message-ID: <72178D540B9E41AABAEA9351DE143C80@toshibauser> Just listened to this program on Israel National Radio and thought you all might find it interesting.... Audio: The Bible, Science, and Their Fusion http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/News.aspx/1024 Tamar speaks with Dr. Gerald Schroeder and talks about modern science building miniature star power through fusion to energize the world, which would change the political map forever. Also, if Mankind can create 'stars', how does this fit in with the Messianic age? Also, how do dinosaurs, cave men and fossils, 'fuse' with the Biblical narrative? Is there a contradiction, or do both coincide together beautifully? Blessings to All, Diana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/ce25f6bd/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jun 2 08:24:19 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:24:19 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema In-Reply-To: References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Pamela, for these encouraging words. I appreciate very much your taking the time to tell me this. I love these little ones so much and desire more than anything that they know, love and follow their Creator. Bless you, Dear One, Pat From: Pamela Barbera Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:10 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Living the Shema Dear Patricia, keep up the good work. There are blessings in perservering with grand kids. I have other friends who have done this and now see at least one of those children start to walk with Hashem. Kol Tov, Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: Patricia To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have often wondered WHY people can't see what is so plainly written in the Hebrew Bible? I believe it is because of their comfort level as you say, Marvin. It truly is comforting to sit in a pew and be told how right you are. Why would they switch when they are not only reassured of their "saved" status, and encouraged at every possible turn in life, but are also sternly reminded that to disagree means eternal damnation? Their churches leave no room for argument. The people are only offered two alternatives: twisted church dogma or Hell. And IF the pastors allowed themselves to diligently SEARCH (not just reassert), then preach what they have found, they would soon go bankrupt. Being caught in this cycle is very much akin to being slaves in Egypt. I think this is why we are promised that a Prophet "like unto Moses" will arise to confront Pharaoh's gods. I also think that is why Elijah must Return and challenge the prophets of Baal again, with the Power of the One True G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It was OUR very ancestors who watched this monumental Battle over two and a half millennia ago, and SAW the Fire of HaShem fall on Elijah's sacrifice, entirely consuming it! One thing I have been doing is implanting in my Grandkids' minds that Moses was a real-life super hero. I found the Prince of Egypt cartoon movie a good tool. We also watched The Ten Commandments together. We would often pause it and talk about the incredible Power of G-d and how He chose Moses and empowered him to save his people, by proving Pharaoh wrong! They are still asking for Moses books from the library so that we can read about him again and again. I'm thinking that now I need to teach them about how Elijah was also a Super Hero of G-d. It has occurred to me that maybe I could get them interested in writing our own story book about Elijah, and how he fought against the lies of a false belief system. Our discussions do occasionally cause my daughter-in-law to limit my time with them, and that's hurtful, but it is more important that they get the idea that there is ONLY ONE G-D AND HE USES HIS SUPER HEROES TO CHALLENGE ALL THAT IS FALSE, than to remain in my comfort zone with them. I am really hoping that we, as a group, can seek HaShem and come up with inspired ideas to confront the prophets of Baal TODAY!!!!! Avigail/Pat From: mhyde Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:48 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I don't think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda -mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial.. they would rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America. But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don't.. it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what.. someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon... It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going... but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time... I have no answer.. I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don't see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I'm missing something... but I'm believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. I'm done venting.. but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. Shalom, Ya'll ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/eac83641/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 2 11:08:50 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:08:50 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Interesting Information. Message-ID: <060220091608.20097.4A254E92000088C100004E8122193100029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> I've never been one for conspiracy theories but I have to say that sometimes trusting in men's motives and not paying attention to what is going on around us can take us by surprise. Here are a couple of interesting things I've learned recently; Did y'all know that one of the first things Hitler did when he came to power was found the Volkswagon car company with Ferdinand Porshe and the name Volkswagon itself was intended to endear Hitler to the German public as a provider for the people (Peoples Automobile). Also, I don't know how many of you own weapons but I own a couple of handguns. I just recently found out that ammunition for them is getting very, very scarce. In a discussion with a friend of mine who is a reliable source of info on this subject I learned the reason for this. I didn't know this but it seems that the primary source of brass used to make cartridges is the federal government. Ammunition manufacturers are having a difficult time obtaining brass these days because most of it is being sold to China. Now I'm not saying that this has actually been planned out this way but it seems to me that if those who want to restrict handgun ownership in this country can't find a way through the Constitution to do so, this would be a very effective alernative. Guns aren't much use without ammunition. I think it may behoove us to start moving around the furniture and peering into the dark corners to see what kind of critters are taking up residence in our house, before they chew away the foundation. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/fa657963/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Tue Jun 2 12:40:38 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (Margie Creech) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Interesting Information. Message-ID: <444622.5894.qm@web58508.mail.re3.yahoo.com> John, My husband ordered three cases of ammo and had to wait a couple of months because people have been buying it up faster than they can get it.? That is true about the brass.? Georgia Armory has bought the used brass from the militay for years and were notified that it would no longer be sold to them because they were selling it to China for less than what GA was buying it for.? Now with our government I'm sure that makes perfect sense.? I think I read where there was such an outcry from the gun owners that they changed their minds about the whole deal and are selling it to them (GA) after all.? (If I'm not mistaken)? ? I saw a new VW on the news the other day, not cute like the Beetle, but it gets 250 mile per gallon and will cost from $600 to $1000.? It's a one seater and UGLY but the first thing I thought of was Hitler and his VW.??How history repeats itself.? All I can say is WAKE UP AMERICA or actually Wake?UP World! ? Margie? --- On Tue, 6/2/09, carlson_john at bellsouth.net wrote: From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: [Dialogue] Interesting Information. To: "Dialogue" Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 11:08 AM I've never been one for conspiracy theories but I have to say that sometimes trusting in men's motives and not paying attention to what is going on around?us can take us by surprise. ? Here are a couple of interesting things I've learned recently; ? Did y'all know that one of the first things Hitler did when he came to power was found the Volkswagon car company with Ferdinand Porshe and the name Volkswagon itself was intended to endear Hitler to the German public as a provider for the people (Peoples Automobile). ? Also, I don't know how many of you own weapons but I own a couple of handguns.? I just recently found out that ammunition for them is getting very, very scarce.? In a discussion with a friend of mine who is a reliable source of info on this subject I learned the reason for this.? I didn't know this but it seems that the primary source of brass used to make cartridges is the federal government.? Ammunition manufacturers are having a difficult time obtaining brass these days because most of it is being sold to China.? Now I'm not saying that this has actually been planned out this way but it seems to me that if those who want to restrict handgun ownership in?this country can't find a way?through the Constitution to do so, this would be a very effective alernative.? Guns aren't much use without ammunition. ? I think it may behoove us to start moving around the furniture and peering into the dark corners to see what kind of critters are taking up residence in?our house, before they chew away the foundation. ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/bbd1ea33/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 2 13:48:15 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:48:15 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] FW: All dogs go where? Message-ID: <060220091848.3583.4A2573EF00075EFB00000DFF22230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> This is funny. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- From: "CARLSON, JOHN S" To: Subject: FW: All dogs go where? Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:46:24 +0000 From: AMEDEE, SUSAN W Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:07 PM To: Karen Perkins; Karen Mondero; Kelly Foster; karen clark; kentwoodlady2004 at aol.com; Angie Warner; Bonnie Schindler; ANGELA SCHINDLER; STEWART, MARY L; 'steffergie at yahoo.com'; FERGUSON, STEPHANIE L; Franklin, Deloris ; Fran; Bertha Verrett; 'tvanno1 at hotmail.com'; gvnn1122 at yahoo.com; HENDRICKSON, LEA M; HENDERSON, CHARLES S; DAUTEL, LAWRENCE H; david lea; AMEDEE, SUSAN W; Torrie Duplessis; ELLEN RYAN WARNER; Tressy Amedee; Jancy Amedee; david lea; CARLSON, JOHN S; pwrtjgo at netzero.com; katherine blalock; HAMILTON, ELAINE Subject: All dogs go where? This is literally a "church signs" debate, being played out in a southern town, between the Catholic church and a Presbyterian church that face each other across the street. From top to bottom, you will see the response and counter-response over time. The Catholics are displaying a much better sense of humor. You get the impression that the Presbyterians are actually taking this seriously! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/d8c1929d/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 48880 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/d8c1929d/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 41437 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/d8c1929d/attachment-0001.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 41760 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/d8c1929d/attachment-0008.jpe From beartrm at yahoo.com Tue Jun 2 14:26:04 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 12:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] FW: All dogs go where? Message-ID: <458471.78884.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That was very funny.? I would like to call your attention to an interview Obama gave to the BBC.? This will be somewhat paraphrased.? He told the interviewer that it was not America's job to firce our values (democracy, religion, etc.) on other nations.? And yet is that not the very thing he is doing to Israel.? I wonder where Europe, Japan and yes even America would be today had we not taken part in WWl & WWll.? I,m not so sure that many American's knew what they were letting themselves in for with our new Obamanation.? Has he not forced his values on Chrysler and GM.? They are?know going to have to make cars he and other nut jobs in Washington think will save the earth from a so called global warming. If I'm not mistaken this is HaShem's world and He is in control especially where Israel?is concerned.? I pray daily that Judah and Ephraim will open their eyes, ears, and hearts to the Torah.? That once again we will recognize each other and hear the call to return to our land. Susan --- On Tue, 6/2/09, carlson_john at bellsouth.net wrote: From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: [Dialogue] FW: All dogs go where? To: "Dialogue" Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 1:48 PM This is funny. ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ? -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- From: "CARLSON, JOHN S" To: Subject: FW: All dogs go where? Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:46:24 +0000 ? ? From: AMEDEE, SUSAN W Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:07 PM To: Karen Perkins; Karen Mondero; Kelly Foster; karen clark; kentwoodlady2004 at aol.com; Angie Warner; Bonnie Schindler; ANGELA SCHINDLER; STEWART, MARY L; 'steffergie at yahoo.com'; FERGUSON, STEPHANIE L; Franklin, Deloris ; Fran; Bertha Verrett; 'tvanno1 at hotmail.com'; gvnn1122 at yahoo.com; HENDRICKSON, LEA M; HENDERSON, CHARLES S; DAUTEL, LAWRENCE H; david lea; AMEDEE, SUSAN W; Torrie Duplessis; ELLEN RYAN WARNER; Tressy Amedee; Jancy Amedee; david lea; CARLSON, JOHN S; pwrtjgo at netzero.com; katherine blalock; HAMILTON, ELAINE Subject: All dogs go where? ? ? ? ? This is literally a "church signs" debate, being played out in a southern town, between the Catholic church and a Presbyterian church that face each other across the street.? From top to bottom, you will see the response and counter-response over time.? The Catholics are displaying a much better sense of humor.? You get the impression that the Presbyterians are actually taking this seriously! ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/2e080b5b/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 48880 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/2e080b5b/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 41437 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/2e080b5b/attachment-0001.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 41760 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/2e080b5b/attachment-0008.jpe From mhyde7 at tds.net Tue Jun 2 18:19:12 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:19:12 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Interesting Information. In-Reply-To: <060220091608.20097.4A254E92000088C100004E8122193100029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <060220091608.20097.4A254E92000088C100004E8122193100029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <389B90816CCF4F28B7848DB0D5D41EF6@MarvinLT> Hey John, Do you think there is correlation or similarity between hitler and volkswagon and Obama and GMC (government motors corporation).? _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:09 PM To: Dialogue Subject: [Dialogue] Interesting Information. I've never been one for conspiracy theories but I have to say that sometimes trusting in men's motives and not paying attention to what is going on around us can take us by surprise. Here are a couple of interesting things I've learned recently; Did y'all know that one of the first things Hitler did when he came to power was found the Volkswagon car company with Ferdinand Porshe and the name Volkswagon itself was intended to endear Hitler to the German public as a provider for the people (Peoples Automobile). Also, I don't know how many of you own weapons but I own a couple of handguns. I just recently found out that ammunition for them is getting very, very scarce. In a discussion with a friend of mine who is a reliable source of info on this subject I learned the reason for this. I didn't know this but it seems that the primary source of brass used to make cartridges is the federal government. Ammunition manufacturers are having a difficult time obtaining brass these days because most of it is being sold to China. Now I'm not saying that this has actually been planned out this way but it seems to me that if those who want to restrict handgun ownership in this country can't find a way through the Constitution to do so, this would be a very effective alernative. Guns aren't much use without ammunition. I think it may behoove us to start moving around the furniture and peering into the dark corners to see what kind of critters are taking up residence in our house, before they chew away the foundation. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/66f16a56/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Tue Jun 2 20:28:58 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:28:58 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] FW: All dogs go where? In-Reply-To: <060220091848.3583.4A2573EF00075EFB00000DFF22230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <060220091848.3583.4A2573EF00075EFB00000DFF22230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: This is too cute, Eliron.needed that laugh! Thanks, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 1:48 PM To: Dialogue Subject: [Dialogue] FW: All dogs go where? This is funny. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- From: "CARLSON, JOHN S" To: Subject: FW: All dogs go where? Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:46:24 +0000 _____ From: AMEDEE, SUSAN W Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:07 PM To: Karen Perkins; Karen Mondero; Kelly Foster; karen clark; kentwoodlady2004 at aol.com; Angie Warner; Bonnie Schindler; ANGELA SCHINDLER; STEWART, MARY L; 'steffergie at yahoo.com'; FERGUSON, STEPHANIE L; Franklin, Deloris ; Fran; Bertha Verrett; 'tvanno1 at hotmail.com'; gvnn1122 at yahoo.com; HENDRICKSON, LEA M; HENDERSON, CHARLES S; DAUTEL, LAWRENCE H; david lea; AMEDEE, SUSAN W; Torrie Duplessis; ELLEN RYAN WARNER; Tressy Amedee; Jancy Amedee; david lea; CARLSON, JOHN S; pwrtjgo at netzero.com; katherine blalock; HAMILTON, ELAINE Subject: All dogs go where? This is literally a "church signs" debate, being played out in a southern town, between the Catholic church and a Presbyterian church that face each other across the street. From top to bottom, you will see the response and counter-response over time. The Catholics are displaying a much better sense of humor. You get the impression that the Presbyterians are actually taking this seriously! [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/bb66d7c8/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 48880 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/bb66d7c8/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 41437 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/bb66d7c8/attachment-0001.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 41760 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/bb66d7c8/attachment-0008.jpe From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 20:39:51 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 20:39:51 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema In-Reply-To: <060220090451.9869.4A24AFBD000547D40000268D22228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <426419.45634.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <17E2B3B134444BA4BF01707194E959E9@MarvinLT> <1c8dbb6e0906012000k46d46f62t2c34cb9acc582eed@mail.gmail.com> <060220090451.9869.4A24AFBD000547D40000268D22228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906021839o77ebac7ds10f35a0ed3b7fa32@mail.gmail.com> Eliron, As a day of prayer...maybe too far off...any date is really okay with me. I'll post an event on Friday with the date based on input. Shalom, Hannah/Kim On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:51 PM, wrote: > Hey Hannah, > > Are you proposing that Tammuz 17 be the day of prayer on this subject or > the day of teaching, or both? > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from kim alvarado < > kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com>: -------------- > > I appreciate everyone's input on this topic. I believe most of us have > been praying about this topic and already have some good ideas. What I > propose in continued prayer as well as one setting aside one day to really > concentrate on teaching our children and others. I would like to post an > event on SWW and also to a note to the dialogue. The date that I have in > mind is Tammuz 17 (July 8-July9). It is already a day set aside for prayer > and fasting on the Hebrew Calendar. I also propose this date because the > Torah portion for this week is Pinchas. The Torah and Haftorah reading seem > to be appropriate. > Any comments or alternative suggestions? I would like to post this asap, > and then set up another time soon after to bounce ideas back and forth. > > Love to you all, > > Kim > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:50 PM, mhyde wrote: > >> I agree with you Margie, pat and Catherine. We must try to sow seed in >> any way and in every place we go. And especially with our young children >> and grandchildren. Maybe God is using all those dead and boring sermons, >> to get his people to start reading his torah. Never thought of it like >> that. >> >> >> >> A friend of my years ago told me that the great commission in Matthew that >> is oft repeated as the command to evangelize should really be understood not >> as a command, but in the sense of ?as you go? just sowing seed as you go. >> >> >> >> marvin >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: >> dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *creechmargie at yahoo.com >> *Sent:* Monday, June 01, 2009 7:57 AM >> *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >> >> *Subject:* RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema >> >> >> >> I hope I'm not missing the jest of all this but I say we do go and tell. >> We may think they are not listening but I believe every person we tell is a >> seed planted. I remember not to long after I was awakened from my slumber >> of not considering G-d at all, and I did come to His Word by the "Jesus" >> doctrine, there was a women in a Bible study who kept spouting off about the >> Sabbath and following Torah. It seemed everyone in the group blew her off >> as a nut and a trouble maker. But what she said struck a chord in my heart >> and so started my journey. Her words inspired me to search the Word for >> truth. When I did begin to read the entire story, and most of you know it >> was with a bunch of 14-16 year old "christian" indoctrinated kids, I saw >> HaShem work in their lives in an unbelievable way. Not all of them were >> interested, but most of them saw that something did not jive with what they >> had been taught and what the Word actually said. My four children all know >> the truth, they don't necessarily live Torah right now but I believe that as >> the times continue to darken that HaShem will stir in them what they have >> heard and learned and it will come alive. Just recently my oldest son has >> been coming around to facing some very hard things about what he has >> believed. It has taken years and I wasn't sure if they had heard anything >> I'd tried to teach them. I think the most important thing we can do is pray >> for our children and the people around us but also take it to the "doing" >> phase. It is so easy to become discouraged and irritated at the ones that >> have not seen truth but we may never see the end result, although if you >> think about it, we are seeing it. If someone had told me that I would >> believe the way I do now years ago I would have thought them crazy or even >> worse that they were from the pits of hell. I don't evangelize but I do >> tell anyone and everyone that will listen and sometimes those who won't. >> (which seems like most at this point) Most of my telling is now by email >> which is a wonderful tool because you can show them scripture and they read >> it and have to deal with it. Like it's been said, the biggest problem is >> that they only sit in church listening to a scripture here and there out of >> context usually with a preacher that has his own agenda and livelihood to >> worry about. We have brothers in prisons all around us, being behind >> bars is not the only form of prison, but I feel that I was a prisoner of all >> the false teaching that had been passed down generation after generation. >> HaShem, Torah, and one woman in a Bible study were the key that began to set >> me free. >> >> >> >> Margie >> --- On *Sun, 5/31/09, mhyde * wrote: >> >> >> From: mhyde >> Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema >> To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >> Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:48 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because >> there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the >> south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are not >> interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks >> with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. >> Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church >> are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse >> and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue >> scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have >> learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail >> are like the ole cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then >> switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the >> trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be >> willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites >> are from other countries and not form America. >> >> But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and >> they seem to be growing. Just kidding. >> >> In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass >> this on to them? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call who he will and >> open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to >> the next generation? >> >> I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 >> valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last >> girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with >> Jesus Christ and guess what?? someone controlling the sound turned it up >> and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire >> for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole >> sermon??. It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, >> when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five >> years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her >> collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win >> the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 >> years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their >> program going?.. but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the >> lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal >> experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and >> scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the >> way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and >> sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to >> say. What a waste of time?.. >> >> I have no answer?. I have thought on this subject often these past >> couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has >> about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But >> everywhere I look around me I don?t see anybody batting that good with this >> young generation(less then 30) maybe, I?m missing something?.. but I?m >> believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples >> attention. >> >> I?m done venting?? but still with the question of how do we reach this >> young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most >> interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. >> >> Shalom, Ya?ll >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: >> dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *kim alvarado >> *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM >> *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >> *Subject:* [Dialogue] Living the Shema >> >> >> >> I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed >> under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" >> >> >> >> Eliron, >> >> >> >> I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should >> focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. >> In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking >> to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart >> for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following >> HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the >> lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us >> how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have >> told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our >> community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn >> together." >> >> >> >> BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are >> a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need >> more. >> >> >> >> >> >> In love, >> >> Kim >> >> - Hide quoted text - >> >> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, <*carlson_john at bellsouth.net* >> > wrote: >> >> - Hide quoted text - >> >> Hey James and all, >> >> >> >> We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple >> Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up >> periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of >> this awakening. >> >> >> >> Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in >> prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be >> decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very >> appropriate approach. >> >> >> >> I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks >> like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of >> the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others >> out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not >> please say so. >> >> >> >> But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out >> fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall >> into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to >> elaborate on that. >> >> >> >> What are y'all's thoughts on this? >> >> >> >> -- >> Eliron/John. >> >> "Be excellent to each other!" >> Bill and Ted >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/831fbd4e/attachment.html From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 20:42:11 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 20:42:11 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema In-Reply-To: <1c8dbb6e0906021839o77ebac7ds10f35a0ed3b7fa32@mail.gmail.com> References: <426419.45634.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <17E2B3B134444BA4BF01707194E959E9@MarvinLT> <1c8dbb6e0906012000k46d46f62t2c34cb9acc582eed@mail.gmail.com> <060220090451.9869.4A24AFBD000547D40000268D22228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <1c8dbb6e0906021839o77ebac7ds10f35a0ed3b7fa32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906021842y2154678dr11db79220f195351@mail.gmail.com> Pat, Thank you for sharing. I think you have some wonderful ideas...laying a foundation. Children may stray as they grow older, but having a foundation gives them something to come back to. I think it is especially important in the younger years. Kim On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:39 PM, kim alvarado wrote: > Eliron, > As a day of prayer...maybe too far off...any date is really okay with me. > I'll post an event on Friday with the date based on input. > > Shalom, > Hannah/Kim > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:51 PM, wrote: > >> Hey Hannah, >> >> Are you proposing that Tammuz 17 be the day of prayer on this subject or >> the day of teaching, or both? >> >> -- >> Eliron/John. >> >> "Be excellent to each other!" >> Bill and Ted >> >> >> -------------- Original message from kim alvarado < >> kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com>: -------------- >> >> I appreciate everyone's input on this topic. I believe most of us have >> been praying about this topic and already have some good ideas. What I >> propose in continued prayer as well as one setting aside one day to really >> concentrate on teaching our children and others. I would like to post an >> event on SWW and also to a note to the dialogue. The date that I have in >> mind is Tammuz 17 (July 8-July9). It is already a day set aside for prayer >> and fasting on the Hebrew Calendar. I also propose this date because the >> Torah portion for this week is Pinchas. The Torah and Haftorah reading seem >> to be appropriate. >> Any comments or alternative suggestions? I would like to post this asap, >> and then set up another time soon after to bounce ideas back and forth. >> >> Love to you all, >> >> Kim >> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:50 PM, mhyde wrote: >> >>> I agree with you Margie, pat and Catherine. We must try to sow seed in >>> any way and in every place we go. And especially with our young children >>> and grandchildren. Maybe God is using all those dead and boring sermons, >>> to get his people to start reading his torah. Never thought of it like >>> that. >>> >>> >>> >>> A friend of my years ago told me that the great commission in Matthew >>> that is oft repeated as the command to evangelize should really be >>> understood not as a command, but in the sense of ?as you go? just sowing >>> seed as you go. >>> >>> >>> >>> marvin >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: >>> dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *creechmargie at yahoo.com >>> *Sent:* Monday, June 01, 2009 7:57 AM >>> *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >>> >>> *Subject:* RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema >>> >>> >>> >>> I hope I'm not missing the jest of all this but I say we do go and tell. >>> We may think they are not listening but I believe every person we tell is a >>> seed planted. I remember not to long after I was awakened from my slumber >>> of not considering G-d at all, and I did come to His Word by the "Jesus" >>> doctrine, there was a women in a Bible study who kept spouting off about the >>> Sabbath and following Torah. It seemed everyone in the group blew her off >>> as a nut and a trouble maker. But what she said struck a chord in my heart >>> and so started my journey. Her words inspired me to search the Word for >>> truth. When I did begin to read the entire story, and most of you know it >>> was with a bunch of 14-16 year old "christian" indoctrinated kids, I saw >>> HaShem work in their lives in an unbelievable way. Not all of them were >>> interested, but most of them saw that something did not jive with what they >>> had been taught and what the Word actually said. My four children all know >>> the truth, they don't necessarily live Torah right now but I believe that as >>> the times continue to darken that HaShem will stir in them what they have >>> heard and learned and it will come alive. Just recently my oldest son has >>> been coming around to facing some very hard things about what he has >>> believed. It has taken years and I wasn't sure if they had heard anything >>> I'd tried to teach them. I think the most important thing we can do is pray >>> for our children and the people around us but also take it to the "doing" >>> phase. It is so easy to become discouraged and irritated at the ones that >>> have not seen truth but we may never see the end result, although if you >>> think about it, we are seeing it. If someone had told me that I would >>> believe the way I do now years ago I would have thought them crazy or even >>> worse that they were from the pits of hell. I don't evangelize but I do >>> tell anyone and everyone that will listen and sometimes those who won't. >>> (which seems like most at this point) Most of my telling is now by email >>> which is a wonderful tool because you can show them scripture and they read >>> it and have to deal with it. Like it's been said, the biggest problem is >>> that they only sit in church listening to a scripture here and there out of >>> context usually with a preacher that has his own agenda and livelihood to >>> worry about. We have brothers in prisons all around us, being behind >>> bars is not the only form of prison, but I feel that I was a prisoner of all >>> the false teaching that had been passed down generation after generation. >>> HaShem, Torah, and one woman in a Bible study were the key that began to set >>> me free. >>> >>> >>> >>> Margie >>> --- On *Sun, 5/31/09, mhyde * wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: mhyde >>> Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema >>> To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >>> Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:48 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because >>> there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the >>> south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are not >>> interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks >>> with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. >>> Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church >>> are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse >>> and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue >>> scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have >>> learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail >>> are like the ole cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then >>> switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the >>> trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be >>> willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites >>> are from other countries and not form America. >>> >>> But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and >>> they seem to be growing. Just kidding. >>> >>> In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass >>> this on to them? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call who he will and >>> open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to >>> the next generation? >>> >>> I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 >>> valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last >>> girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with >>> Jesus Christ and guess what?? someone controlling the sound turned it up >>> and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire >>> for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole >>> sermon??. It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, >>> when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five >>> years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her >>> collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win >>> the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 >>> years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their >>> program going?.. but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the >>> lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal >>> experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and >>> scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the >>> way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and >>> sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to >>> say. What a waste of time?.. >>> >>> I have no answer?. I have thought on this subject often these past >>> couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has >>> about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But >>> everywhere I look around me I don?t see anybody batting that good with this >>> young generation(less then 30) maybe, I?m missing something?.. but I?m >>> believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples >>> attention. >>> >>> I?m done venting?? but still with the question of how do we reach >>> this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be >>> most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. >>> >>> Shalom, Ya?ll >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: >>> dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *kim alvarado >>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM >>> *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >>> *Subject:* [Dialogue] Living the Shema >>> >>> >>> >>> I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts >>> listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" >>> >>> >>> >>> Eliron, >>> >>> >>> >>> I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should >>> focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. >>> In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking >>> to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart >>> for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following >>> HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the >>> lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us >>> how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have >>> told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our >>> community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn >>> together." >>> >>> >>> >>> BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We >>> are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need >>> more. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In love, >>> >>> Kim >>> >>> - Hide quoted text - >>> >>> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, <*carlson_john at bellsouth.net* >>> > wrote: >>> >>> - Hide quoted text - >>> >>> Hey James and all, >>> >>> >>> >>> We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple >>> Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up >>> periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of >>> this awakening. >>> >>> >>> >>> Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in >>> prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be >>> decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very >>> appropriate approach. >>> >>> >>> >>> I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks >>> like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of >>> the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others >>> out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not >>> please say so. >>> >>> >>> >>> But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out >>> fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall >>> into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to >>> elaborate on that. >>> >>> >>> >>> What are y'all's thoughts on this? >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Eliron/John. >>> >>> "Be excellent to each other!" >>> Bill and Ted >>> >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/df88f73f/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Tue Jun 2 20:49:03 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:49:03 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! Message-ID: Friends, I just wanted to let you know that I have a job interview tomorrow at 2:30pm Central time as a teacher for first or second grade. The catch is that our school district has a job freeze in effect now due to overspending and mismanagement, so things are being cut from the budget. There are teachers who have contracts, but no positions, so this may be a waste for me to go to the interview. But since I was called by the Assistant Principal of a school where I did some long term substitute teaching, apparently she has confidence in me as a teacher, so I do not want to turn down any opportunities in case the freeze is lifted. So we will see. Any of you that are inclined to pray for me, please do. I have only gone for one job interview (except in college) in my entire life, so I do not have much experience in this realm and am a bit nervous. I would ask that any who want to pray would ask that HaShem go before me and give me favor with the interviewers. I have a ton of experience and know that I am very qualified, but sometimes get tongue-tied when I am nervous. Also, a Baruch HaShem, it looks like Roger will have another temp job reviewing files. This one will be done from home, so that will be good! Thank you all for your thoughts and your prayers and for being my friends, some over many years and some only recently.you are each special and I am grateful for you all! Love, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/143b853b/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 21:04:59 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:04:59 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <855590370906021904i51da0550j98f376976c49490c@mail.gmail.com> All my prayers, good vibes and hopes are going YOUR way Betty.....hang in there!! * Hanoch * On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Betty K Givin wrote: > Friends, I just wanted to let you know that I have a job interview > tomorrow at 2:30pm Central time as a teacher for first or second grade. The > catch is that our school district has a job freeze in effect now due to > overspending and mismanagement, so things are being cut from the budget. > There are teachers who have contracts, but no positions, so this may be a > waste for me to go to the interview. But since I was called by the > Assistant Principal of a school where I did some long term substitute > teaching, apparently she has confidence in me as a teacher, so I do not want > to turn down any opportunities in case the freeze is lifted. So we will > see. Any of you that are inclined to pray for me, please do. I have only > gone for one job interview (except in college) in my entire life, so I do > not have much experience in this realm and am a bit nervous. I would ask > that any who want to pray would ask that HaShem go before me and give me > favor with the interviewers. I have a ton of experience and know that I am > very qualified, but sometimes get tongue-tied when I am nervous. > > > > Also, a Baruch HaShem, it looks like Roger will have another temp job > reviewing files. This one will be done from home, so that will be good! > > > > Thank you all for your thoughts and your prayers and for being my friends, > some over many years and some only recently?you are each special and I am > grateful for you all! > > > > Love, > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/097bb9a6/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Tue Jun 2 21:18:50 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (Margie Creech) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! Message-ID: <120746.9478.qm@web58505.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Betty, I'll be praying for you.? ? Exodus 4:10-12 But Moses said to the Lord, "Please, O Lord, I have never been a man of words,?either in times past or now that?You have spoken to Your servant; I am slow of speech and slow of tongue." And the Lord said to him, " Who gives man speech?? Who makes him dumb or deaf, seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?? Now go and I will be with you as you? speak and will instruct you what to say.? Betty?you will do fine because I know the Lord is with you. ? Margie ? --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:49 PM Friends,? I just wanted to let you know that I have a job interview tomorrow at 2:30pm Central time as a teacher for first or second grade.? The catch is that our school district has a job freeze in effect now due to overspending and mismanagement, so things are being cut from the budget.? There are teachers who have contracts, but no positions, so this may be a waste for me to go to the interview.? But since I was called by the Assistant Principal of a school where I did some long term substitute teaching, apparently she has confidence in me as a teacher, so I do not want to turn down any opportunities in case the freeze is lifted.? So we will see.? Any of you that are inclined to pray for me, please do.? I have only gone for one job interview (except in college) in my entire life, so I do not have much experience in this realm and am a bit nervous.? I would ask that any who want to pray would ask that HaShem go before me and give me favor with the interviewers.? I have a ton of experience and know that I am very qualified, but sometimes get tongue-tied when I am nervous. ? Also, a Baruch HaShem, it looks like Roger will have another temp job reviewing files.? This one will be done from home, so that will be good! ? Thank you all for your thoughts and your prayers and for being my friends, some over many years and some only recently?you are each special and I am grateful for you all! ? Love, ? Elisheva/Betty ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/63102476/attachment.html From betty_m_eddy at yahoo.com Tue Jun 2 22:23:53 2009 From: betty_m_eddy at yahoo.com (betty_m_eddy at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 20:23:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24 Message-ID: <90950.3945.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have some questions about the reading from last week. Maybe someone could help me. ? Exodus: 12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying: Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it; whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death; 13 no hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live; when the ram's horn soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.' ? A comment. There has been some thought that they stood under the mountain and it became a chuppa, but that couldn?t be so because they wouldn?t have been able to touch it if it were in the air. ? 17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. ? What part was the nether part? . 21 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish. 22 And let the priests also, that come near to the LORD, sanctify themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.' 23 And Moses said unto the LORD: 'The people cannot come up to mount Sinai; for thou didst charge us, saying: Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it.' 24 And the LORD said unto him: 'Go, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee; but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the LORD, lest He break forth upon them.' ? What do these passages mean? At a glance, it sounds like God forgot and Moses reminded Him. Does anyone know what other translations say? ? Another question. Why do people write G-d instead of God? Betty Eddy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/e035b268/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 2 22:24:09 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 03:24:09 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1837989305-1243999470-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-567402080-@bxe1160.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I'll certainly be praying for you Elisheva, I know you will do well. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Betty K Givin" Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:49:03 To: Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! _______________________________________________ From bkgivin at verizon.net Tue Jun 2 23:13:30 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 23:13:30 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! In-Reply-To: <120746.9478.qm@web58505.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <120746.9478.qm@web58505.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hanoch, Margie and Eliron, thank you so much for your prayers and also for the 'good vibes' and your confidence in me. I appreciated the quote below so very much, Margie. So often I find that there are so many other people and things to pray for that I often do not think to pray for myself except for forgiveness. HaShem has always taken care of us, even in the tough times, and I am trusting that He will be with me tomorrow as well. I will definitely hang in there (had a lot of practice doing that!) and will go forth in confidence and courage. Thanks for your kind words my friends. I do not expect to know anything for awhile, but will keep you posted. Thanks again so much for your prayers and for your friendship! My love, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Margie Creech Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:19 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! Betty, I'll be praying for you. Exodus 4:10-12 But Moses said to the Lord, "Please, O Lord, I have never been a man of words, either in times past or now that You have spoken to Your servant; I am slow of speech and slow of tongue." And the Lord said to him, " Who gives man speech? Who makes him dumb or deaf, seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord? Now go and I will be with you as you speak and will instruct you what to say. Betty you will do fine because I know the Lord is with you. Margie --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:49 PM Friends, I just wanted to let you know that I have a job interview tomorrow at 2:30pm Central time as a teacher for first or second grade. The catch is that our school district has a job freeze in effect now due to overspending and mismanagement, so things are being cut from the budget. There are teachers who have contracts, but no positions, so this may be a waste for me to go to the interview. But since I was called by the Assistant Principal of a school where I did some long term substitute teaching, apparently she has confidence in me as a teacher, so I do not want to turn down any opportunities in case the freeze is lifted. So we will see. Any of you that are inclined to pray for me, please do. I have only gone for one job interview (except in college) in my entire life, so I do not have much experience in this realm and am a bit nervous. I would ask that any who want to pray would ask that HaShem go before me and give me favor with the interviewers. I have a ton of experience and know that I am very qualified, but sometimes get tongue-tied when I am nervous. Also, a Baruch HaShem, it looks like Roger will have another temp job reviewing files. This one will be done from home, so that will be good! Thank you all for your thoughts and your prayers and for being my friends, some over many years and some only recently.you are each special and I am grateful for you all! Love, Elisheva/Betty -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/d3973c8e/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 2 23:42:30 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:42:30 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema In-Reply-To: <1c8dbb6e0906021839o77ebac7ds10f35a0ed3b7fa32@mail.gmail.com> References: <426419.45634.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com><17E2B3B134444BA4BF01707194E959E9@MarvinLT><1c8dbb6e0906012000k46d46f62t2c34cb9acc582eed@mail.gmail.com><060220090451.9869.4A24AFBD000547D40000268D22228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <1c8dbb6e0906021839o77ebac7ds10f35a0ed3b7fa32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <060320090442.7611.4A25FF36000581BF00001DBB22230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Okay Hannah. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from kim alvarado : -------------- Eliron, As a day of prayer...maybe too far off...any date is really okay with me. I'll post an event on Friday with the date based on input. Shalom, Hannah/Kim On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:51 PM, wrote: Hey Hannah, Are you proposing that Tammuz 17 be the day of prayer on this subject or the day of teaching, or both? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from kim alvarado : -------------- I appreciate everyone's input on this topic. I believe most of us have been praying about this topic and already have some good ideas. What I propose in continued prayer as well as one setting aside one day to really concentrate on teaching our children and others. I would like to post an event on SWW and also to a note to the dialogue. The date that I have in mind is Tammuz 17 (July 8-July9). It is already a day set aside for prayer and fasting on the Hebrew Calendar. I also propose this date because the Torah portion for this week is Pinchas. The Torah and Haftorah reading seem to be appropriate. Any comments or alternative suggestions? I would like to post this asap, and then set up another time soon after to bounce ideas back and forth. Love to you all, Kim On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:50 PM, mhyde wrote: I agree with you Margie, pat and Catherine. We must try to sow seed in any way and in every place we go. And especially with our young children and grandchildren. Maybe God is using all those dead and boring sermons, to get his people to start reading his torah. Never thought of it like that. A friend of my years ago told me that the great commission in Matthew that is oft repeated as the command to evangelize should really be understood not as a command, but in the sense of ?as you go? just sowing seed as you go. marvin From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of creechmargie at yahoo.com Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:57 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I hope I'm not missing the jest of all this but I say we do go and tell. We may think they are not listening but I believe every person we tell is a seed planted. I remember not to long after I was awakened from my slumber of not considering G-d at all, and I did come to His Word by the "Jesus" doctrine, there was a women in a Bible study who kept spouting off about the Sabbath and following Torah. It seemed everyone in the group blew her off as a nut and a trouble maker. But what she said struck a chord in my heart and so started my journey. Her words inspired me to search the Word for truth. When I did begin to read the entire story, and most of you know it was with a bunch of 14-16 year old "christian" indoctrinated kids, I saw HaShem work in their lives in an unbelievable way. Not all of them were interested, but most of them saw that something did not jive with what they had been taught and what the Word actually said. My four children all know the truth, they don't necessarily live Torah right now but I believe that as the times continue to darken that HaShem will stir in them what they have heard and learned and it will come alive. Just recently my oldest son has been coming around to facing some very hard things about what he has believed. It has taken years and I wasn't sure if they had heard anything I'd tried to teach them. I think the most important thing we can do is pray for our children and the people around us but also take it to the "doing" phase. It is so easy to become discouraged and irritated at the ones that have not seen truth but we may never see the end result, although if you think about it, we are seeing it. If someone had told me that I would believe the way I do now years ago I would have thought them crazy or even worse that they were from the pits of hell. I don't evangelize but I do tell anyone and everyone that will listen and sometimes those who won't. (which seems like most at this point) Most of my telling is now by email which is a wonderful tool because you can show them scripture and they read it and have to deal with it. Like it's been said, the biggest problem is that they only sit in church listening to a scripture here and there out of context usually with a preacher that has his own agenda and livelihood to worry about. We have brothers in prisons all around us, being behind bars is not the only form of prison, but I feel that I was a prisoner of all the false teaching that had been passed down generation after generation. HaShem, Torah, and one woman in a Bible study were the key that began to set me free. Margie --- On Sun, 5/31/09, mhyde wrote: From: mhyde Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:48 PM I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America. But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what?? someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon??. It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going?.. but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time?.. I have no answer?. I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don?t see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I?m missing something?.. but I?m believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. I?m done venting?? but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. Shalom, Ya?ll From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/9c7e9011/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 3 00:00:09 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 05:00:09 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Interesting Information. In-Reply-To: <389B90816CCF4F28B7848DB0D5D41EF6@MarvinLT> References: <060220091608.20097.4A254E92000088C100004E8122193100029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <389B90816CCF4F28B7848DB0D5D41EF6@MarvinLT> Message-ID: <060320090500.21809.4A2603590008E74A0000553122230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> I don't know Marvin. But when I turn on the news these days I find myself continually amazed by the direction we are taking and it's parallels with what I know of the fall of the Weimar Republic. But I am certain that Mr.Obama is not the sole player in all of this. I just think that we need to raise our vigilance with regard to the actions of our government as well as strengthen our skepticism of it's supposed benevolence or we may find ourselves repeating history. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "mhyde" : -------------- Hey John, Do you think there is correlation or similarity between hitler and volkswagon and Obama and GMC (government motors corporation).? From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:09 PM To: Dialogue Subject: [Dialogue] Interesting Information. I've never been one for conspiracy theories but I have to say that sometimes trusting in men's motives and not paying attention to what is going on around us can take us by surprise. Here are a couple of interesting things I've learned recently; Did y'all know that one of the first things Hitler did when he came to power was found the Volkswagon car company with Ferdinand Porshe and the name Volkswagon itself was intended to endear Hitler to the German public as a provider for the people (Peoples Automobile). Also, I don't know how many of you own weapons but I own a couple of handguns. I just recently found out that ammunition for them is getting very, very scarce. In a discussion with a friend of mine who is a reliable source of info on this subject I learned the reason for this. I didn't know this but it seems that the primary source of brass used to make cartridges is the federal government. Ammunition manufacturers are having a difficult time obtaining brass these days because most of it is being sold to China. Now I'm not saying that this has actually been planned out this way but it seems to me that if those who want to restrict handgun ownership in this country can't find a way through the Constitution to do so, this would be a very effective alernative. Guns aren't much use without ammunition. I think it may behoove us to start moving around the furniture and peering into the dark corners to see what kind of critters are taking up residence in our house, before they chew away the foundation. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/75aa1157/attachment.html From eliasaph at uniteourheart.com Wed Jun 3 00:42:25 2009 From: eliasaph at uniteourheart.com (Steve Mathe) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:42:25 -0700 Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906030541.n535fo0T005737@mail382c25.carrierzone.com> Betty, You got it, hang in there and be yourself Steve At 06:49 PM 6/2/2009, you wrote: >Friends, I just wanted to let you know that I >have a job interview tomorrow at 2:30pm Central >time as a teacher for first or second >grade. The catch is that our school district >has a job freeze in effect now due to >overspending and mismanagement, so things are >being cut from the budget. There are teachers >who have contracts, but no positions, so this >may be a waste for me to go to the >interview. But since I was called by the >Assistant Principal of a school where I did some >long term substitute teaching, apparently she >has confidence in me as a teacher, so I do not >want to turn down any opportunities in case the >freeze is lifted. So we will see. Any of you >that are inclined to pray for me, please do. I >have only gone for one job interview (except in >college) in my entire life, so I do not have >much experience in this realm and am a bit >nervous. I would ask that any who want to pray >would ask that HaShem go before me and give me >favor with the interviewers. I have a ton of >experience and know that I am very qualified, >but sometimes get tongue-tied when I am nervous. > >Also, a Baruch HaShem, it looks like Roger will >have another temp job reviewing files. This one >will be done from home, so that will be good! > >Thank you all for your thoughts and your prayers >and for being my friends, some over many years >and some only recently you are each special and I am grateful for you all! > >Love, > >Elisheva/Betty > >_______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090602/0575eeff/attachment.html From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 01:11:26 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 01:11:26 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24 In-Reply-To: <90950.3945.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <90950.3945.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906022311l53c16c51q69fb6a09bf8d9877@mail.gmail.com> Betty, My thoughts about the mountain being in the air (if it did indeed happen-as it is Midrash) is that it was only at the time that HaShem spoke the Ten Words. In other words, the mountain rose after Moses had descended and then was back on the ground afterward when Israel asked to no longer HaShem's voice. As a sidenote, Hez just posted something about the Oral Torah on SWW. He mentioned that in Midrash, Israel willing accepted the Written Torah, but when it came time to accept the Oral Torah they had to accept, less HaShem drop the mountain on them. As far as repeating the instruction not to approach the mountain, I believe HaShem knew the weakness of His people. It needed to be repeated. In Exodus 20:19 & 20, HaShem repeated the commandment not to make for yourself gods of silver or gold. Alas, to no avail. People write G-d out of respect to different HaShem from the false gods of the nation. Shalom, Kim On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:23 PM, wrote: > *I have some questions about the reading from last week. Maybe someone > could help me.* > > * * > > *Exodus: 12* And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, > saying: Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch > the border of it; whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death; > > > *13* no hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot > through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live; when the ram's horn > soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.' > > > > *A comment. There has been some thought that they stood under the mountain > and it became a chuppa, but that couldn?t be so because they wouldn?t have > been able to touch it if it were in the air. * > > > > *17* And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet God; and > they stood at the nether part of the mount. > > > > *What part was the nether part?* > > . > > *21* And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Go down, charge the people, lest they > break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish. > > *22* And let the priests also, that come near to the LORD, sanctify > themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.' > > *23* And Moses said unto the LORD: 'The people cannot come up to mount > Sinai; for thou didst charge us, saying: Set bounds about the mount, and > sanctify it.' > > *24* And the LORD said unto him: 'Go, get thee down, and thou shalt come > up, thou, and Aaron with thee; but let not the priests and the people break > through to come up unto the LORD, lest He break forth upon them.' > > > > What do these passages mean? At a glance, it sounds like God forgot and > Moses reminded Him. Does anyone know what other translations say? > > > > Another question. Why do people write G-d instead of God? > Betty Eddy > * > * > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/952ecdb4/attachment.html From zitro4 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 3 04:42:57 2009 From: zitro4 at yahoo.com (G. Ortiz) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 02:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! Message-ID: <638360.72861.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> These are good news, Elisheva. Go with the KNOWING that there is a power, greater than you and I, HaShem Eloheinu, who is with you. Concentrate in showing confidence in the job you can do, developed from your years of experience, and emphasize the many good things about yourself, besides the experience, that makes you the candidate of excellence. The rest is in His hands. I will continue praying for you and Roger... Shalom, shalom, Gisela --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 9:49 PM Friends,? I just wanted to let you know that I have a job interview tomorrow at 2:30pm Central time as a teacher for first or second grade.? The catch is that our school district has a job freeze in effect now due to overspending and mismanagement, so things are being cut from the budget.? There are teachers who have contracts, but no positions, so this may be a waste for me to go to the interview.? But since I was called by the Assistant Principal of a school where I did some long term substitute teaching, apparently she has confidence in me as a teacher, so I do not want to turn down any opportunities in case the freeze is lifted.? So we will see.? Any of you that are inclined to pray for me, please do.? I have only gone for one job interview (except in college) in my entire life, so I do not have much experience in this realm and am a bit nervous.? I would ask that any who want to pray would ask that HaShem go before me and give me favor with the interviewers.? I have a ton of experience and know that I am very qualified, but sometimes get tongue-tied when I am nervous. ? Also, a Baruch HaShem, it looks like Roger will have another temp job reviewing files.? This one will be done from home, so that will be good! ? Thank you all for your thoughts and your prayers and for being my friends, some over many years and some only recently?you are each special and I am grateful for you all! ? Love, ? Elisheva/Betty ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/d6260ae1/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Wed Jun 3 06:04:02 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 06:04:02 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! In-Reply-To: <120746.9478.qm@web58505.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <120746.9478.qm@web58505.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A2658A2.2060405@mts.net> Amen I agree, I have never been a man of words either. May Hashem grant you peace of mind Betty Cornie Margie Creech wrote: > Betty, > I'll be praying for you. > > Exodus 4:10-12 But Moses said to the Lord, "Please, O Lord, I have > never been a man of words, either in times past or now that You have > spoken to Your servant; I am slow of speech and slow of tongue." And > the Lord said to him, " Who gives man speech? Who makes him dumb or > deaf, seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord? *_Now go and I will be > with you as you speak and will instruct you what to say._* Betty you > will do fine because I know the Lord is with you. > > Margie > > > --- On *Tue, 6/2/09, Betty K Givin //* wrote: > > > From: Betty K Givin > Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:49 PM > > Friends, I just wanted to let you know that I have a job > interview tomorrow at 2:30pm Central time as a teacher for first > or second grade. The catch is that our school district has a job > freeze in effect now due to overspending and mismanagement, so > things are being cut from the budget. There are teachers who have > contracts, but no positions, so this may be a waste for me to go > to the interview. But since I was called by the Assistant > Principal of a school where I did some long term substitute > teaching, apparently she has confidence in me as a teacher, so I > do not want to turn down any opportunities in case the freeze is > lifted. So we will see. Any of you that are inclined to pray for > me, please do. I have only gone for one job interview (except in > college) in my entire life, so I do not have much experience in > this realm and am a bit nervous. I would ask that any who want to > pray would ask that HaShem go before me and give me favor with the > interviewers. I have a ton of experience and know that I am very > qualified, but sometimes get tongue-tied when I am nervous. > > > > Also, a Baruch HaShem, it looks like Roger will have another temp > job reviewing files. This one will be done from home, so that > will be good! > > > > Thank you all for your thoughts and your prayers and for being my > friends, some over many years and some only recently?you are each > special and I am grateful for you all! > > > > Love, > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/69b99175/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 06:07:27 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 07:07:27 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "The 50th Level - We Are There!" Message-ID: <855590370906030407t150f6179oc77bbffc3150f37c@mail.gmail.com> Rav Bar Tzadok is one of the people I really listen to - I find him very profound.... * Hanoch (96 days left.....)* ** *The 50th Level - We Are There!* By HaRav Ariel Bar Tzadok. Copyright (C) 2009 by Ariel Bar Tzadok. All rights reserved. Introductory Note: If you are offended by the following essay, maybe you need to be. It never ceases to amaze me just how outright stupid and ignorant more and more people are becoming. Our modern day society sucks out the minds and hearts of people more and more, drawing them in and shackling them to a reality of illusions. And G-d forbid that anyone should disturb their pretty little worlds of make-believe importance to attempt to wake them up to take a glimpse at the real world. Modern society succeeds in every way to enslave the minds of people by bogging them down with so many responsibilities, obligations and desires that no one has any more time to simply think for themselves. Today almost everything is a distraction keeping us from seeing the true nature of our mental enslavement. More and more society is becoming regimented with nonsensical meaningless bureaucratic complexities. One must now fill out forms and forms of information just to accomplish even the most simple of things. Our minds have become regimented to just accept what is going on as the only way to interact with the system. You either go with the flow or you get left behind. And G-d forbid one should not be on the pioneering edge, arrogantly ahead of one's neighbors. Rather than to think and complain about the growing amount of nonsense daily citizens are being forced to deal with, everyone just goes with the flow, not wanting to be bothered. After all, how can one little person fight the entire system? I am sure these were the same sentiments spoken by individual sons of Israel in Egypt as they witnessed their nation descending into the bonds of slavery. Well, here we are again and we are all slaves of a different kind, yet slaves we be. We are slaves to society, to culture, to the norms and forays of our peers. We have to do what is expected of us, how it is expected of us and at the right time in the right way. The consequences for violation will be either social or legal ostracization. 0D Welcome to modern Egypt, the land and society of modern slavery. Slaves you be, to your credit cards, to your way of life, the expectations of your friends and the norms of society. No more must the government enslave your bodies with chains. Why bother, when your minds are chained to all the things that you consider to be so valuable and you are so unwilling to change or give up. Remember Humpty Dumpty, for his day is coming. And "all the king's horses and all the king's men will not be putting Humpty back together again." Slaves do not think; they only do as they are told. For this reason, slaves are not afforded the same rights and privileges as free individuals. Only a free individual can think for him/herself. Slaves cannot think independently; slaves do not even bother to try. Slaves just want to be told what to do and then do it. Free individuals think for themselves and make their own decisions regardless of the bureaucracy or the opinions of others. Free individuals never take into account political correctness and never just follow the crowd to conform. They do what is right simply because it is right. Convenience is not a luxury they entertain. I have found that the great commandment of modern society is this, "Thou shalt not inconvenience me." The commentary on this simple: people just want to continue doing what they are doing and they do not want to be interrupted, bothered or slowed down. Anything that breaks the pace of their having their fun is considered evil in their eyes. In the eyes of the blind masses, this world is all about having fun and being happy; nothing else matters and nothing else is more important. This makes the pursuits of the average person similar to and on par with those who are drug addicts or others similarly addicted and not in control of their behavior. Essentially, everyone today is an addict; they are addicted to having fun and to pursuing happiness. Modern society keeps everyone addicted. We are addicted to our entertainment media. We are addicted to fashion. We are addi cted to social life. We are addicted to shopping. We are addicted to the need of approval from our peers. We are addicted to overwhelming over-stimulation, similar in every respect to those addicted to drugs. Even in the hallowed halls of the religious communities this poisonous infection has taken hold. Indeed, many in the religious communities who are affluent have become victims of their affluence. Instead of their affluence being a blessing from G-d enabling them to do much good; much of their affluence has been a curse that has ruined them as individuals and has destroyed any sense of the fear of G-d in their children. Religion and affluence is a dangerous combination that only very, very few can handle without suffering loss in the both areas. Slavery of the mind; this is what the Talmudic/Zoharic tradition refers to as the 50th level of uncleanliness that would ensnare the masses before the coming of Mashiah. Today, people see the world they live in, love it, embrace it and can think of no other way to live; nor do they want any other. Today, no one really wants Mashiah to come, not unless his arrival is convenient and not too disruptive. It is nice to talk about20how "we want Mashiah now," but who is really willing to give up their enjoyable social lives, big houses, fancy clothes and modern conveniences all in exchange for what? Our society has become hedonistic, self-centered and arrogant. Happiness is wrongly defined by how much one has instead of who one is as an individual. There is never enough, no matter how much one has. Consumerism has become the addictive drug of choice; buy buy buy, more, more, more, even when the economy is bad, shopping must go on! No one anymore has a concept of frugality; no one anymore knows what it means to be simple. This is a recipe for ultimate collapse, for nothing, no economy; no anything can simply grow and grow and grow without reaching its bursting point and then finally exploding with a destructive force that collapses everything. Yet, slaves and addicts will never consider this; just give them their next fix, their next trip to the mall; that's about as far as their attention span can stretch and how far their life perspective can go. This is the 50th level of tumah, the slavery of the mind. In this deluded state the slave considers himself to be free and thus refuses to seek free dom. On the contrary, real freedom of the individual to think and act independently is abhorred; it is considered to be far too much hard work and way too inconvenient. Why should one invest so much effort for freedom, when they can get so much more all for free and with relatively little effort from the television, the movies and the mall? There is an old saying here, that rings very true, "no one imprisoned can ever free themselves." Today's slaves of the mind cannot free themselves; they cannot even see their own slavery. What do you think happens to slaves of this nature? It will certainly not be a miraculous magical emancipation and enlightenment. There are many such fools in the religious communities who believe and preach this nonsense. Yet, they are as deceived and misguided as those to whom they reach out. Blind fools all together suffer one equal and common fate; and it is not a good one. Such a fate is only natural; it is the natural byproduct and outcome of their lifestyles. This is historica l fact; it has happened in the past and nothing will prevent it from happening again in the near future. It is inevitable and only those who wake up and learn to see will be able to jump out in time before this society of ours hits a solid brick wall of fate at over 100 mph. There will be many who will be very unhappy with what I have written here; some will be angry; although most will be apathetic. They will say, "These are my opinions; who cares about them." That is just fine. I do not and have never played the game called, "How to win friends and influence people." Let people believe what they will and live like they will. Eventually they will each face their fate and no one on Earth will be able to intervene on their behalf. This is the ultimate price one must pay for the error of allowing distractions to blind one's eyes. Does anyone remember what real teshuva is? In coming essays we will discuss more about specific threats and what one can do to address them, if they wish t o become free of this modern slavery... ------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/12806ede/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 06:21:03 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 07:21:03 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "Obama Turns the Screws on Israel" Message-ID: <855590370906030421u6e687abao1ec4faa9cf7c709f@mail.gmail.com> Blog Fundamentally Freund....Israel National News Sivan 10, 5769, 6/2/2009 Obama turns the screws on Israel Who does Obama think he is to be speaking so brusquely to Israel? In advance of his upcoming speech in Cairo to the Arab world, there is mounting evidence that US President Barack Obama is turning up the pressure on Israel in order to appease the Muslim world. A Reuters storytoday contains some absolutely astonishing tidbits of information which, if true, demonstrate the extent to which the new administration in Washington feels free to dictate to Israel about its behavior. According to the report, George Mitchell, Obama's Middle East envoy, told Israeli officials at a meeting in London last week that, "The president doesn't want to see even one cement mixer in the West Bank", which was a rather undiplomatic way of saying that he wants all construction of Jewish homes in the area to cease. What kind of way is that to speak to an ally? Who does Obama think he is to be speaking so brusquely to Israel? But wait, it gets worse..... The Reuters story also quotes an unnamed political source revealing a bombshell, asserting that Israel's leaders are being kept in the dark about the contents of Obama's upcoming speech. "They are waiting to hear (Obama's) speech. They have no idea what he will say. With Bush they would have had the draft in advance. But they are in the dark. This is part of the American withdrawal of cooperation." That is a sure enough sign that whatever Obama plans to say about the Middle East, it will certainly come as an unpleasant surprise for Israel and its supporters. Stay tuned.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/24723db7/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Wed Jun 3 07:55:09 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 08:55:09 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "Obama Turns the Screws on Israel" In-Reply-To: <855590370906030421u6e687abao1ec4faa9cf7c709f@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370906030421u6e687abao1ec4faa9cf7c709f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0be901c9e44a$89ac8ef0$9d05acd0$@com> What I'm having trouble with is during the presidential campaign, any connection to Obama's Muslim roots was called a "smear" and now he is openly admitting/using this fact. Patty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:21 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] "Obama Turns the Screws on Israel" Blog Fundamentally Freund....Israel National News Sivan 10, 5769, 6/2/2009 Obama turns the screws on Israel Who does Obama think he is to be speaking so brusquely to Israel? In advance of his upcoming speech in Cairo to the Arab world, there is mounting evidence that US President Barack Obama is turning up the pressure on Israel in order to appease the Muslim world. A Reuters story today contains some absolutely astonishing tidbits of information which, if true, demonstrate the extent to which the new administration in Washington feels free to dictate to Israel about its behavior. According to the report, George Mitchell, Obama's Middle East envoy, told Israeli officials at a meeting in London last week that, "The president doesn't want to see even one cement mixer in the West Bank", which was a rather undiplomatic way of saying that he wants all construction of Jewish homes in the area to cease. What kind of way is that to speak to an ally? Who does Obama think he is to be speaking so brusquely to Israel? But wait, it gets worse..... The Reuters story also quotes an unnamed political source revealing a bombshell, asserting that Israel's leaders are being kept in the dark about the contents of Obama's upcoming speech. "They are waiting to hear (Obama's) speech. They have no idea what he will say. With Bush they would have had the draft in advance. But they are in the dark. This is part of the American withdrawal of cooperation." That is a sure enough sign that whatever Obama plans to say about the Middle East, it will certainly come as an unpleasant surprise for Israel and its supporters. Stay tuned.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/d9a63c07/attachment.html From oneillcody at yahoo.com Wed Jun 3 08:09:17 2009 From: oneillcody at yahoo.com (cody oneill) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 06:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Obama sows a Mideast whirlwind Message-ID: <419938.47888.qm@web37308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Obama sows a Mideast whirlwindCenter for Security Policy | Jun 01, 2009? By Frank?Gaffney, Jr.(Jerusalem):? From this vantage point, two events this week appear to be ominous straws in the wind, warnings of a "man-caused" maelstrom that may inexorably plunge the Middle East into another, potentially cataclysmic war.The first is the fact that Israel feels obliged to undertake an unprecedented, country-wide civil defense exercise this week.? At one point in its course, every man, woman and child in the Jewish State is supposed to seek shelter from a simulated attack of the kind Iran may shortly be able to execute against it.The second is President Obama's latest effort to reach out to the Muslim world, this time on June 4 from one of its most important capitals, Cairo.? There, he is expected to make an address that will reiterate his previous statements on the subject - pronouncements that, unfortunately, can only have been interpreted by his intended audience as acts of submission.If past is prelude, the President of the United States will: apologize yet again for purported offenses against Muslims by his country; promise to be respectful of Islam, including those who adhere to its authoritative, if virulent, theo-political-legal program known as Shariah; and enunciate diplomatic priorities and initiatives designed to reach out to America's enemies in the region, while putting excruciating pressure on its most reliable ally there, Israel.This pressure has become more palpable by the day.? It has taken various forms, including: U.S. stances adopted at the United Nations that will serve to isolate Israel; blank political and even financial checks for Palestinian thugs like Mahmoud Abbas; diminishing U.S.-Israeli cooperation on intelligence and military matters; and the withholding from Israel of helicopters (and perhaps other weaponry) being provided to Arab states.Perhaps the most chilling example of this coercive pressure so far, however, was originally reported in the Israeli paper?Yediot Aharonot?and given international prominence by my esteemed colleague and Jerusalem Post columnist,?Caroline Glick.? According to these accounts, in a recent lecture in Washington, U.S. Army Lieutenant General Keith Dayton, the American officer charged with training Palestinian military forces in Jordan, made a shocking declaration.In Ms. Glick's words, "[Gen. Dayton] indicated that if Israel does not surrender Judea and Samaria within two years, the Palestinian forces he and his fellow American officers are now training at a cost of more than $300 million could begin killing Israelis."? She went on to note that neither the general nor the Obama administration seemed to find this prospect grounds for rethinking the wisdom of such a training-and-arming program.? In fact, her column observed that Defense Secretary Robert Gates "just extended Dayton's tour of duty for an additional two years and gave him the added responsibility of serving as Obama's Middle East mediator George Mitchell's deputy."Taken together with the U.S. administration's refusal to come to grips with what truly is the most serious threat to peace in the Middle East - Iran's rising power and growing aggressiveness, reflecting in part its incipient nuclear weapons capabilities - the stage is being inexorably set for the next, and perhaps most devastating, regional conflict.Whether the signals Mr. Obama is sending are intended to communicate such a message or not, they are going to be read by Israel's enemies as evidence of a profound rift between the United States and the Jewish State.? In this part of the world, that amounts to an invitation to an open season on Israel.?It is hard to believe that the Obama Middle East agenda enjoys the support of the American people or their elected representatives in Congress. Historically, the public and strong bipartisan majorities on Capitol Hill have appreciated that an Israel that shares our values, that is governed democratically and that is in the cross-hairs of the same people who seek our destruction is an important ally.? Quite apart from a sense of moral and religious affinity for the Jewish people's struggle to survive in their ancient homeland, most of us recognize that it is in the United States' strategic interest to stand with Israel.It is worrisome in the extreme that Mr. Obama does not appear to share this appreciation.? To those who worried about his affinity for the Saudi king and Islam more generally and his longstanding ties to virulent critics of Israel like Columbia University professor Rashid Khalidi and former Harvard professor-turned-National Security Council staffer Samantha Power, the President's attitude is not exactly a surprise.? His administration's posture may have been further reinforced by Arab-American pollster John Zogby's recent?Forbes?Magazine article arguing that friends of Israel made up John McCain's constituency, not Obama's. (This raises an interesting question about the sentiments towards Israel of the 78% of American Jews who voted for the latter in 2008.)My guess, however, is that, as the implications of President Obama's Mideast policies - for the United States as well as Israel - become clearer, he is going to find himself facing the sort of popular and congressional revolt that has confronted him in recent weeks on Guantanamo Bay.? The question is:? Will such a reaffirmation of American solidarity with and support for Israel come in time to prevent the winds of war being whipped up by Mr. Obama's posturing and rhetoric - and driving Israelis into bomb shelters - from wreaking havoc in the Middle East, and perhaps far beyond? "To be courageous requires no exceptional qualifications, no magic formula, no special combination of time, place, and circumstance. It is an opportunity that sooner or later is presented to us all." --JFK-- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/f9c2a08a/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Wed Jun 3 09:09:36 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:09:36 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Got your message this morning and I'm praying! Love you, Pat From: Betty K Givin Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:49 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! Friends, I just wanted to let you know that I have a job interview tomorrow at 2:30pm Central time as a teacher for first or second grade. The catch is that our school district has a job freeze in effect now due to overspending and mismanagement, so things are being cut from the budget. There are teachers who have contracts, but no positions, so this may be a waste for me to go to the interview. But since I was called by the Assistant Principal of a school where I did some long term substitute teaching, apparently she has confidence in me as a teacher, so I do not want to turn down any opportunities in case the freeze is lifted. So we will see. Any of you that are inclined to pray for me, please do. I have only gone for one job interview (except in college) in my entire life, so I do not have much experience in this realm and am a bit nervous. I would ask that any who want to pray would ask that HaShem go before me and give me favor with the interviewers. I have a ton of experience and know that I am very qualified, but sometimes get tongue-tied when I am nervous. Also, a Baruch HaShem, it looks like Roger will have another temp job reviewing files. This one will be done from home, so that will be good! Thank you all for your thoughts and your prayers and for being my friends, some over many years and some only recently.you are each special and I am grateful for you all! Love, Elisheva/Betty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/711fcf47/attachment.html From oneillcody at yahoo.com Wed Jun 3 09:18:34 2009 From: oneillcody at yahoo.com (cody oneill) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 07:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Obama showing his true colors on Israel Message-ID: <786787.1652.qm@web37308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Obama showing his 'true colors' on Israel Author warns president will bring 'disaster' to U.S., Jewish state Posted: June 02, 2009 9:18 pm Eastern ??2009?WorldNetDaily The Obama administration's actions the past few days prove it is a direct threat to Israel and Middle East regional stability, the author of a?blockbuster?new book charges.In?The Late Great State of Israel,?author and WND?Jerusalem?bureau chief Aaron Klein draws urgent attention to the unprecedented, mortal danger that Israel faces.A major portion of the work focuses on how Obama's policies are likely to cause grave harm to the Jewish state.Now with reports of a major rift in U.S.-Israel relations and claims the Obama administration may seek to "punish" Israel for failing to comply with settlement restrictions, Klein's work is more relevant than ever.(Story continues below)??"Obama's major address tomorrow to the Muslim world along with his diplomacy with Iran and his recent mild response to North Korean nuclear testing are coalescing to project an image of American weakness that could result in disastrous ramifications for the U.S. and Israel," Klein said.Just yesterday, Obama reiterated that Iran may have the right to nuclear energy, provided it takes steps to prove its aspirations are peaceful. His declaration sent jolts down the spines of Jerusalem officials concerned over Iran's suspected nuclear weapons?development?program, according to Klein.This past weekend, the New York Times reported the Obama administration is considering taking measures against Israel should the Netanyahu government not comply with the U.S. administration's demands to halt settlements.The Times report outlined what it said were some of the steps Obama may take, including ceasing near-complete support for Israel in the?United?Nations; refraining from opposing U.N. security council resolutions, which are usually unfairly anti-Israel; and using Obama's "pulpit" to criticize Israeli settlement activity.Commented Klein: "Obama seems to believe Jews living in the West Bank are the main impediments to peace. This is a major distortion of the facts. It's the Palestinian and greater Arab rejection of Israel's existence that is the core of the issue. The Arabs attacked Israel intent on destroying the country long before the Jewish state retained the strategic West Bank. By putting the onus on Israel, Obama is traveling down a dangerous path."In his book, Klein exposes some shocking revelations, such as specific ways the Obama White House is helping to physically divide Jerusalem and exclusive information the U.S. President may open dialogue with the Hamas terrorist organization.Among the highlights of?"The Late Great State of Israel":How the Israeli government has turned a blind eye as Islamic authorities physically erase archaeological evidence on the Temple Mount, including actual Temple artifacts.? How Jerusalem ALREADY has been divided.? Is Obama poised to legitimize Hamas terrorists? Plus, how Obama's Mideast policies, including talks with Iran and Syria, threaten the Jewish state and, ultimately, America How Iran is positioning its proxies to wreck havoc on Israel while?Tehran?inches toward nuclear weapons.? How the U.N. fuels a fake "refugee crisis" that directly threatens Israel's existence.? How and why Israel failed in its recent 22-day war in Gaza.? How the U.S.?funds?and fuels Mideast terrorism? How the news media is covering for terrorists and playing a dangerous lying game about the Mideast and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In doing so, how they are emboldening the enemies of the U.S. and Israel. "To be courageous requires no exceptional qualifications, no magic formula, no special combination of time, place, and circumstance. It is an opportunity that sooner or later is presented to us all." --JFK-- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/9d85b9af/attachment.html From oneillcody at yahoo.com Wed Jun 3 11:25:47 2009 From: oneillcody at yahoo.com (cody oneill) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:25:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] On our own Message-ID: <590874.37741.qm@web37305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> POSTED BY?ARI GOLDWAG?AT?4:23 PM?0 COMMENTSLABELS:?CHILDREN OF HASHEM,?CHIZZUK,?GEULAH,?LOVE,MOSHIACH,?OBAMA,????? ?????WEDNESDAY, JUNE 3, 2009 On our ownOn a short walk in Ramat Bet Shemesh, I had a most moving thought. As the Jewish people once again seems to find itself in a corner, with no one to rely on but Hashem, there is a striking parallel to another point in history that presaged a potential Geulah. This was actually in the time of Avraham Avinu. Avraham was also referred to as an ???? - what we translate as 'Hebrew,' but what actually means 'one who is on the side.' He was called this because while the entire world was on the side of evil, clamoring to create a tower to rebel against Hashem, Avraham was on the side of Good, constantly striving to bring Hashem's kindness into the world through his benevolent acts of unconditional kindness. He stood on one side - the ???? - while the whole world stood on the other. This pure altruistic mode of living brought Hashem to create a ???? with Avraham that meant that he would take over the purpose of mankind - the ????? ???? - rectification of the world - that meant his children would need to remove the darkness that had taken over mankind. This meant that Avraham's children would enter into the place where that darkness was centered - Mitzrayim. There his children would face an opportunity to bring the redemption by staying true to the ways of their forefathers through their devotion to Hashem. When they would fail in that devotion, they would experience the hardships of slavery that also would help them take back the Holiness that was being leeched by the dark forces of Egypt. When they finally had succeeded, there was a redemption that brought them to Har Sinai, where they returned to the state of Adam Harishon, attaining the light of Moshiach on Shavuos. The dream was shortlived, however, when the Jews sinned with the Golden Calf and lost that level of perfection. Just as it was with Avraham, who stood on one side while all the world stood on the other, in their perverse evil and self-centeredness, so it is now. We are beginning to see that there is no one to rely upon but Hashem. While the American president seems to be a man who threatens our very existence here in Israel, he is clearly the messenger of Hashem. We are being placed into a predicament where we are truly alone. This situation is the opportunity for a great attainment of trust and reliance upon Hashem. As long as we feel that others are on our side, we have a sense of self-confidence. When the world comes down upon us from every direction, demanding our annihilation, we are shocked into a realization of the true reality. We are on one side. Everyone else is on the other. This is the precursor for Moshiach. This presents us with a test and a great opportunity, no matter where we are. Hashem is making it obvious that the leader of America has no qualms with creating a situation that is tantamount to Israel's destruction. We look up from our morning paper and we say, "Is this real?" The answer is that it is. And it is really the chance for every Jew to identify with his brother's pain no matter where he may be. Every Jew can look up from his paper and say, "This is unjust! The country of Israel and the Jewish people will not survive with these terms and conditions. We must stand up for what is right." This statement will attach every Jew to each other - creating a web that binds us to one another. Just as the Geulah of Purim came with an unnatural and illogical call for our destruction and caused the Jewish people to reunite as one, we are now being given the opportunity to do this once again. During the Holocaust, there was a similar opportunity for the Jewish people to look at the plight of their brethren in Europe and to stand up for their cause. At that time, there was a failure to do so, perhaps because of disbelief, or perhaps because of apathy. An opportunity for unity and complete Geulah was lost then. It seems that we are about to be faced with a similar chance. This opportunity must not be missed. We must strengthen each other and our commitment to our brethren no matter where we may be. We must feel the pain of our brothers and we must stand up with dignity, showing our solidarity in the face of the world's disdain. Our blood must boil from the unfairness to which our people are being subjected. We must not stand idly by. Chazal tell us that ??? ?????? ??? - the Jewish people are called Adam. This means that we have a chance to join together as one in order to bring Hashem's Shechinah into the world and to reflect Hashem's light to all the nations. We can only do this when we behave as we did at Har Sinai. At that time, we stood as one - ???? ??? ??? ??? - as one man with one heart. We then reached the level of Adam Harishon before the sin - the level of Moshiach. We are about to face another shot at it. May Hashem help us, for the sake of His Shechinah, and for the sake of the honor of His beloved nation."To be courageous requires no exceptional qualifications, no magic formula, no special combination of time, place, and circumstance. It is an opportunity that sooner or later is presented to us all." --JFK-- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/4c6f0534/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 16:28:47 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:28:47 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] On our own In-Reply-To: <590874.37741.qm@web37305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <590874.37741.qm@web37305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <855590370906031428y6dbfefbfh40d768febba5af3@mail.gmail.com> Hey Cody - This is TOTALLY on target.... * Hanoch * On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:25 PM, cody oneill wrote: > POSTED BY ARI GOLDWAG AT 4:23 PM > 0 COMMENTS > LABELS: CHILDREN OF HASHEM > , CHIZZUK , > GEULAH , LOVE > ,MOSHIACH , > OBAMA , ???? > ????? > WEDNESDAY, JUNE 3, 2009 > On our own > On a short walk in Ramat Bet Shemesh, I had a most moving thought. > > As the Jewish people once again seems to find itself in a corner, with no > one to rely on but Hashem, there is a striking parallel to another point in > history that presaged a potential Geulah. This was actually in the time of > Avraham Avinu. Avraham was also referred to as an ???? - what we translate > as 'Hebrew,' but what actually means 'one who is on the side.' He was called > this because while the entire world was on the side of evil, clamoring to > create a tower to rebel against Hashem, Avraham was on the side of Good, > constantly striving to bring Hashem's kindness into the world through his > benevolent acts of unconditional kindness. He stood on one side - the ???? - > while the whole world stood on the other. This pure altruistic mode of > living brought Hashem to create a ???? with Avraham that meant that he would > take over the purpose of mankind - the ????? ???? - rectification of the > world - that meant his children would need to remove the darkness that had > taken over mankind. This meant that Avraham's children would enter into the > place where that darkness was centered - Mitzrayim. There his children would > face an opportunity to bring the redemption by staying true to the ways of > their forefathers through their devotion to Hashem. When they would fail in > that devotion, they would experience the hardships of slavery that also > would help them take back the Holiness that was being leeched by the dark > forces of Egypt. When they finally had succeeded, there was a redemption > that brought them to Har Sinai, where they returned to the state of Adam > Harishon, attaining the light of Moshiach on Shavuos. The dream was > shortlived, however, when the Jews sinned with the Golden Calf and lost that > level of perfection. > > Just as it was with Avraham, who stood on one side while all the world > stood on the other, in their perverse evil and self-centeredness, so it is > now. We are beginning to see that there is no one to rely upon but Hashem. > While the American president seems to be a man who threatens our very > existence here in Israel, he is clearly the messenger of Hashem. We are > being placed into a predicament where we are truly alone. This situation is > the opportunity for a great attainment of trust and reliance upon Hashem. As > long as we feel that others are on our side, we have a sense of > self-confidence. When the world comes down upon us from every direction, > demanding our annihilation, we are shocked into a realization of the true > reality. > > We are on one side. Everyone else is on the other. This is the precursor > for Moshiach. > > This presents us with a test and a great opportunity, no matter where we > are. Hashem is making it obvious that the leader of America has no qualms > with creating a situation that is tantamount to Israel's destruction. We > look up from our morning paper and we say, "Is this real?" The answer is > that it is. And it is really the chance for every Jew to identify with his > brother's pain no matter where he may be. Every Jew can look up from his > paper and say, "This is unjust! The country of Israel and the Jewish people > will not survive with these terms and conditions. We must stand up for what > is right." This statement will attach every Jew to each other - creating a > web that binds us to one another. Just as the Geulah of Purim came with an > unnatural and illogical call for our destruction and caused the Jewish > people to reunite as one, we are now being given the opportunity to do this > once again. > > During the Holocaust, there was a similar opportunity for the Jewish people > to look at the plight of their brethren in Europe and to stand up for their > cause. At that time, there was a failure to do so, perhaps because of > disbelief, or perhaps because of apathy. An opportunity for unity and > complete Geulah was lost then. It seems that we are about to be faced with a > similar chance. This opportunity must not be missed. We must strengthen each > other and our commitment to our brethren no matter where we may be. We must > feel the pain of our brothers and we must stand up with dignity, showing our > solidarity in the face of the world's disdain. Our blood must boil from the > unfairness to which our people are being subjected. We must not stand idly > by. > > Chazal tell us that ??? ?????? ??? - the Jewish people are called Adam. > This means that we have a chance to join together as one in order to bring > Hashem's Shechinah into the world and to reflect Hashem's light to all the > nations. We can only do this when we behave as we did at Har Sinai. At that > time, we stood as one - ???? ??? ??? ??? - as one man with one heart. We > then reached the level of Adam Harishon before the sin - the level of > Moshiach. We are about to face another shot at it. May Hashem help us, for > the sake of His Shechinah, and for the sake of the honor of His beloved > nation. > "To be courageous requires no exceptional qualifications, no magic > formula, no special combination of time, place, and circumstance. It is an > opportunity that sooner or later is presented to us all." > --JFK-- > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/f742a27e/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Wed Jun 3 18:36:16 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 19:36:16 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] FW: Sometimes I need a picture to actually visualize a problem Message-ID: <44BE36EC101D4B7490E9F9E18519489C@MarvinLT> Are we ever in trouble! http://www.usdebtclock.org/ From bkgivin at verizon.net Wed Jun 3 22:48:23 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:48:23 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] UPDATE JOB INTERVIEW! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear friends (Pat, Cornie, Kim, Hanoch, Steve, John, Margie and all who answered my email individually and all who prayed for me), Thank you so much for your individual emails offering love, support and encouragement and your prayers! The interview went beautifully! I was amazed at how calm and composed and relaxed I was. I just felt at ease and so uplifted. I do believe that HaShem was indeed with me and that as a result, I found favor with those doing the interviewing. Some of you will who know me will get tickled when I tell you this, but I was very much myself! This was quite evident as the very first question that was asked of me related to why I wanted to teach and what motivates me as a teacher.I had only uttered about two words when the emotions started up and I got all teary-eyed; the counselor who was leading the interview had to get up and put a box of tissues on the table in front of me as she grabbed a tissue as well. I apologized for my tears as I tried to explain how much teaching means to me.the counselor and the other teachers were very gracious.and before long the counselor and I weren't the only ones delving into the box of tissues! But it wasn't all tears.we laughed too as I related a couple of funny kid stories. and there were serious moments too and nods of agreement as the interview went on. it was all good. I don't think I ever remember having an experience quite like this in a business setting.it was as if I was there and going thru the motions of opening my mouth and talking and the words were just flowing out.so much so, that I answered many of their questions before they even asked them. It was really a beautiful experience, positive all around.I was able to be me.and become emotional, as teaching is so much a part of me and has been all my life.yet I was able to maintain an attitude of professionalism. I give HaShem all the glory because without Him and without all your prayers and encouragement, It just wouldn't have gone so smoothly. I am not expecting to hear anything right away as there is a hiring freeze. If I secure the job, then that will be great. If not, then I will not take it personally, because I know I gave it my all. I will keep you posted on any new developments. In the next few days, I intend to be spending a lot of time on my computer doing more on line applications for all the area school districts. My love and thanks to all of you, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:10 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! Got your message this morning and I'm praying! Love you, Pat From: Betty K Givin Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:49 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! Friends, I just wanted to let you know that I have a job interview tomorrow at 2:30pm Central time as a teacher for first or second grade. The catch is that our school district has a job freeze in effect now due to overspending and mismanagement, so things are being cut from the budget. There are teachers who have contracts, but no positions, so this may be a waste for me to go to the interview. But since I was called by the Assistant Principal of a school where I did some long term substitute teaching, apparently she has confidence in me as a teacher, so I do not want to turn down any opportunities in case the freeze is lifted. So we will see. Any of you that are inclined to pray for me, please do. I have only gone for one job interview (except in college) in my entire life, so I do not have much experience in this realm and am a bit nervous. I would ask that any who want to pray would ask that HaShem go before me and give me favor with the interviewers. I have a ton of experience and know that I am very qualified, but sometimes get tongue-tied when I am nervous. Also, a Baruch HaShem, it looks like Roger will have another temp job reviewing files. This one will be done from home, so that will be good! Thank you all for your thoughts and your prayers and for being my friends, some over many years and some only recently.you are each special and I am grateful for you all! Love, Elisheva/Betty _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090603/63962c4b/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 3 23:35:46 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 04:35:46 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] UPDATE JOB INTERVIEW! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <060420090435.12003.4A274F21000E9C8200002EE322230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Most excellent (but not surprising) news Elisheva! I will pray that the hiring freeze will be lifted soon. Shalom my friend. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Dear friends (Pat, Cornie, Kim, Hanoch, Steve, John, Margie and all who answered my email individually and all who prayed for me), Thank you so much for your individual emails offering love, support and encouragement and your prayers! The interview went beautifully! I was amazed at how calm and composed and relaxed I was. I just felt at ease and so uplifted. I do believe that HaShem was indeed with me and that as a result, I found favor with those doing the interviewing. Some of you will who know me will get tickled when I tell you this, but I was very much myself! This was quite evident as the very first question that was asked of me related to why I wanted to teach and what motivates me as a teacher?I had only uttered about two words when the emotions started up and I got all teary-eyed; the counselor who was leading the interview had to get up and put a box of tissues on the table in front of me as she grabbed a tissue as well. I apologized for my tears as I tried to explain how much teaching means to me?the counselor and the other teachers were very gracious?and before long the counselor and I weren?t the only ones delving into the box of tissues! But it wasn?t all tears?we laughed too as I related a couple of funny kid stories? and there were serious moments too and nods of agreement as the interview went on? it was all good. I don?t think I ever remember having an experience quite like this in a business setting?it was as if I was there and going thru the motions of opening my mouth and talking and the words were just flowing out?so much so, that I answered many of their questions before they even asked them. It was really a beautiful experience, positive all around?I was able to be me?and become emotional, as teaching is so much a part of me and has been all my life?yet I was able to maintain an attitude of professionalism. I give HaShem all the glory because without Him and without all your prayers and encouragement, It just wouldn?t have gone so smoothly. I am not expecting to hear anything right away as there is a hiring freeze. If I secure the job, then that will be great. If not, then I will not take it personally, because I know I gave it my all. I will keep you posted on any new developments. In the next few days, I intend to be spending a lot of time on my computer doing more on line applications for all the area school districts. My love and thanks to all of you, Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:10 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! Got your message this morning and I'm praying! Love you, Pat From: Betty K Givin Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:49 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! Friends, I just wanted to let you know that I have a job interview tomorrow at 2:30pm Central time as a teacher for first or second grade. The catch is that our school district has a job freeze in effect now due to overspending and mismanagement, so things are being cut from the budget. There are teachers who have contracts, but no positions, so this may be a waste for me to go to the interview. But since I was called by the Assistant Principal of a school where I did some long term substitute teaching, apparently she has confidence in me as a teacher, so I do not want to turn down any opportunities in case the freeze is lifted. So we will see. Any of you that are inclined to pray for me, please do. I have only gone for one job interview (except in college) in my entire life, so I do not have much experience in this realm and am a bit nervous. I would ask that any who want to pray would ask that HaShem go before me and give me favor with the interviewers. I have a ton of experience and know that I am very qualified, but sometimes get tongue-tied when I am nervous. Also, a Baruch HaShem, it looks like Roger will have another temp job reviewing files. This one will be done from home, so that will be good! Thank you all for your thoughts and your prayers and for being my friends, some over many years and some only recently?you are each special and I am grateful for you all! Love, Elisheva/Betty _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/e0c821f0/attachment.html From chcashmore at hotmail.com Thu Jun 4 06:11:27 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 21:11:27 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Job Interview news! Message-ID: Dearest Betty, I am SO upset that I have only just seen your message - I am behind with my dialogue reading (I missed checking yesterday) and have JUST seen your information on the Job interview. I am DELIGHTED for you. I have never stopped praying for you, but would have LOVED to pray for you in regard to this as well. I love you dearly, and will now pray that you get the job you desire and all will go OK. I had to wait so long to get the job I'm in now, and I love it. It's been perfect, and I thank HaShem each and everyday for the blessing. I don't think I have ever been so happy to go to work each day!.# I am so indebted to all on dialogue for all the prayers and support over the many issues I have and am having to face. You are all my family, and I hope that at some point - HaShem willing - I will have the chance to meet some of you face to face. Until then dearest Betty - I'll be praying for you. Much love, Catherine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/b22cecf1/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Thu Jun 4 06:40:26 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 07:40:26 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] UPDATE JOB INTERVIEW! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: BARUCH HASHEM!!!! Our G-d is so Good. I'm so glad to hear they got to know you as the most precious person you are! Now I'm praying for a thaw!!!! Love, Pat From: Betty K Givin Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:48 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] UPDATE JOB INTERVIEW! Dear friends (Pat, Cornie, Kim, Hanoch, Steve, John, Margie and all who answered my email individually and all who prayed for me), Thank you so much for your individual emails offering love, support and encouragement and your prayers! The interview went beautifully! I was amazed at how calm and composed and relaxed I was. I just felt at ease and so uplifted. I do believe that HaShem was indeed with me and that as a result, I found favor with those doing the interviewing. Some of you will who know me will get tickled when I tell you this, but I was very much myself! This was quite evident as the very first question that was asked of me related to why I wanted to teach and what motivates me as a teacher.I had only uttered about two words when the emotions started up and I got all teary-eyed; the counselor who was leading the interview had to get up and put a box of tissues on the table in front of me as she grabbed a tissue as well. I apologized for my tears as I tried to explain how much teaching means to me.the counselor and the other teachers were very gracious.and before long the counselor and I weren't the only ones delving into the box of tissues! But it wasn't all tears.we laughed too as I related a couple of funny kid stories. and there were serious moments too and nods of agreement as the interview went on. it was all good. I don't think I ever remember having an experience quite like this in a business setting.it was as if I was there and going thru the motions of opening my mouth and talking and the words were just flowing out.so much so, that I answered many of their questions before they even asked them. It was really a beautiful experience, positive all around.I was able to be me.and become emotional, as teaching is so much a part of me and has been all my life.yet I was able to maintain an attitude of professionalism. I give HaShem all the glory because without Him and without all your prayers and encouragement, It just wouldn't have gone so smoothly. I am not expecting to hear anything right away as there is a hiring freeze. If I secure the job, then that will be great. If not, then I will not take it personally, because I know I gave it my all. I will keep you posted on any new developments. In the next few days, I intend to be spending a lot of time on my computer doing more on line applications for all the area school districts. My love and thanks to all of you, Elisheva/Betty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:10 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! Got your message this morning and I'm praying! Love you, Pat From: Betty K Givin Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:49 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! Friends, I just wanted to let you know that I have a job interview tomorrow at 2:30pm Central time as a teacher for first or second grade. The catch is that our school district has a job freeze in effect now due to overspending and mismanagement, so things are being cut from the budget. There are teachers who have contracts, but no positions, so this may be a waste for me to go to the interview. But since I was called by the Assistant Principal of a school where I did some long term substitute teaching, apparently she has confidence in me as a teacher, so I do not want to turn down any opportunities in case the freeze is lifted. So we will see. Any of you that are inclined to pray for me, please do. I have only gone for one job interview (except in college) in my entire life, so I do not have much experience in this realm and am a bit nervous. I would ask that any who want to pray would ask that HaShem go before me and give me favor with the interviewers. I have a ton of experience and know that I am very qualified, but sometimes get tongue-tied when I am nervous. Also, a Baruch HaShem, it looks like Roger will have another temp job reviewing files. This one will be done from home, so that will be good! Thank you all for your thoughts and your prayers and for being my friends, some over many years and some only recently.you are each special and I am grateful for you all! Love, Elisheva/Betty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/026fafd3/attachment.html From sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au Thu Jun 4 06:40:46 2009 From: sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au (Sandra Inglis) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 21:40:46 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] UPDATE JOB INTERVIEW! Message-ID: <1715667792924956971561DD36FD1B60@SPLITPIN> Shalom Betty, I am glad that your job interview went well. I pray that it will result in you gaining employment. Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/9936b9ab/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 06:47:55 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 07:47:55 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "Taking the slavery out of the Jews" Message-ID: <855590370906040447r5cac476awc0c837b0fbe204b6@mail.gmail.com> Such words of truth...from one of the few true leaders in the country...(of course, they kept him out of the government) * Hanoch* *Taking the Slavery out of the Jews* *"We remember the fish that we ate in Egypt for free"* (From this week's Torah portion, B'ha'alotcha, Numbers 11:5) To say that we got fish for free in Egypt is like fondly reminiscing about the free bowl of "soup" that we got in Auschwitz. Not that the Israelites were hungry in the desert. They had the honey flavored manna to eat. So why the glowing memories of Egyptian fish? That is simply the nature of a slave. In his book *Night Flight*, Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry describes the lifestyle of Arab tribes in the Sahara desert. When a slave would become old, he would be freed. But the slave would beg to continue to serve his master. When his supplications would be refused, he would not seek out a new life as a free man. He would simply lie on the sand in the desert and dehydrate for a few days until death would release him from bondage. Through the spectrum of their slave mentality, the fish that the Israelites received from the Egyptians was a gift. The horrific price that they paid as slaves was not part of the equation. It was just the way the world turned. It was only natural that the Israelites were tortured and murdered; it was only natural that their baby sons were thrown into the Nile. After all, they were not actually human beings. All that they remembered was the un-natural: the fact that their masters were 'kind' enough to give them a piece of fish. When Obama makes dealing with the Iranian threat contingent on the destruction of Jewish settlements, what he is actually saying is that we do not have the right to live. But if we would like to continue to breathe this world's air nevertheless, we have to pay. For Jews, life is not a right - it is a gift. When Netanyahu explains in the Likud Knesset meeting that "We may have to take down illegal outposts as the US demands in order to focus attention on the Iranian threat," he accepts Obama's warped logic. It makes no difference that objectively, our economic and security situation is excellent. Israel's economy is much stronger than America's. The shekel is stronger than the dollar. We have a modern and well-equipped army. We have "manna" that is delicious beyond belief. But he who is enslaved to the American master, sees none of the above. He thinks that he cannot get by without "American aid" - the modern day version of "free" Egyptian fish. Nothing will happen if Netanyahu simply tells Obama no. All that he has to do is to step out of his slave mentality. In the meantime, though, the opposite is taking place. Netanyahu thinks that if he destroys the outposts, he will buy approval to act on other fronts. He doesn't understand that he who surrenders his right to free settlement also surrenders his right to defend himself. He who destroys Mitzpeh Yitzhar can no longer attack in Bushehr. Shabbat Shalom, *Moshe Feiglin * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/5fab9ab6/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 07:22:42 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 08:22:42 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] 'Parshat Beha'alotcha' Message-ID: <855590370906040522v5b9e6363y6281b7967c5b2f44@mail.gmail.com> >From one of the great Jewish sages of our time.... * Hanoch* ** BS"D *Parashat Beha?alotcha (in Eretz Yisrael) 5769* Part A: The Hidden Light Today, in Cairo, the American president made a reconciliatory address to the Moslem peoples. It was a vision of the impossible where people of diverse histories, cultures and religions all live together in near perfect unison. Just like the Flatbush neighborhood where I grew up in the 40s and 50s, when I played with little Italian and Irish boys. It was a great valedictorian speech, like the kind which creates momentary feelings of nachat (nachas) from the grandparents and parents of the young promising graduate, but have no influence on reality. But within the many ear pleasing platitudes there were two plans whose realization the US president will be applying his total credibility to. One: The Sacred Basin of Jerusalem?s Old City will be under the united flags of the world?s major religions. Read: Not under Jewish sovereign. Two: The destruction of little wooden huts on hilltops in Shomron. These little suka sized logo structures are poisoning the progress towards Middle East peace, and eventual world peace. The Israeli leadership is bewildered where they go from here, and American Jews will soon be thrown in the ring with an opponent they have been trying to escape for sixty years. It will be the moment of decision where their loyalties lie - with their ancient nation and homeland or with their adopted country. It is not an easy one; and in the face of life?s *realities, *unfortunately, the majority of Jews, including the religious, will opt for their adopted land. Rashi, in this week?s parasha, comments that the menorah was designed with its wicks pointing towards the center in order to limit its light, and was lit in the mishkan where no one would benefit from its illumination. Obviously, its purpose was the fulfillment of HaShem?s mitzva and not for any practical application. The lesson we learn from this is that there is more to reality than what meets the eye. There is the light we see by, but there is also a light beyond human needs, which serves the will of the Creator. We will return to this. Part B: Ram-Bo Not less than a summit level meeting of the present residents of the American White House was required to decide on what to name the nation?s "first puppy". We have no way of knowing the alternative suggestions, but when the white smoke rose aloft, the nation and world knew that a decision had been reached. The lucky puppy will be called "Bo" - mazal tov! Some White House observers claim that it is an acrostic of the "ba?al ha?bayits" pre-Indonesian name "Barry Obama", or his post-Indonesian name "Barak Obama", but my ever authoritative informants leaked to me the real meaning and source of the name. It is the Hebrew word for "come", as found in many first grade readers when mother calls out to the family puppy, "Come Rex, come". According to my information it was suggested by non other than the White House?s own Hebrew expert Ram Emanuel, who had a double motive. He told the "first family" that it means "come" and would help to allay any feelings of Israel diplomats that there is an anti-Israel wave in the new administration. For what true, red-blooded, continental born American would ever call his dog a name which does not convey deep fondness? But there is a more profound, even secretive reason behind Mr. Emanuel?s suggestion, one that neither the president nor the CIA would ever be aware of. It is also the name of the third parasha in the Book of Shemot - parashat Bo. When HaShem tells Moshe "Bo el Paro" - come to Paro and warn him of the imminent next three plagues which will befall the entire Egyptian people as a result of Paro?s anti-Jewish administration?s policies. Locusts, which will decimate all the nation?s food resources. Darkness, when the national electric grid will implode, leaving the nation and its computer driven society in paralysis. Death of the first born, when not a home will escape the scythe of the skeletalfaced angel of death. It was Ram?s personal reminder - Ram-Bo - that he created for himself, of who he is and where his roots lie. When sitting with the President and hearing him coerce some shriveled, humbled Israeli diplomat not to dare to put a nail in the wall to hang a picture in any place in the mountain ridge of Eretz Yisrael, Ram will hear one of the President?s little girls calling out "Bo". Then Ram will awaken to his responsibility to warn the President that there is a God in Heaven, who is very short on patience with nations that deal unkindly with His children Israel. This is the Ram-Bo we would wish, however the one we got sitting in the White House will use his Rambo muscles as an exported model of our very own Meretz Party and Shalom Achshav (Peace Now), in advising the all too eager president how to exile Jews from their homes in Eretz Yisrael. This is very sad for the United States and the world, but not so for us in Eretz Yisrael. Because as dangerous and brittle as the situation might appear here, God in heaven will save us. Which He will not do for any nation that stands in the way of the Jewish nation?s unstoppable historical steamroller. The Jewish people?s manifest destiny - the only manifest destiny that ever existed in history, is our return to Eretz Yisrael, according to our Torah?s established borders in a land under God, governed by the Torah. There is no room in the Torah?s vision of peace in the workd The world is standing on a dangerous precipice in history; more dangerous than living in a house built on the San Andreas fault. The only rational choice for a Jew in the galut is to return as soon as possible to Eretz Yisrael; for when the Quality of Justice begins to manifest in the world, it will be too late to make the necessary arrangements to leave the areas of God?s heavy hand. To return to the "Hidden Light". The hostile, unfriendly, contrary, disapproving, dour, hateful, ill-disposed, malicious, malignant, unsympathetic, and virulent administration in Washington that we are experiencing today will only worsen. But this is not the true reality behind the smoke-screen of activity with which HaShem has surrounded us. The near future will be a trying time for those who fear God. We will be walking in the darkness of animosity while holding only a small lantern of belief in HaShem?s promise that we are His eternal people. But that little light can drive away a forest of darkness. The ongoing debate among the Torah elements of our people as to the nature of Medinat Yisrael, as a stage in the final redemption, or merely one more link in the political-social arrangements of man, remains unsolved in the earthly bet din of rabbis. The reality of our lives has produced halachic perplexity regarding the responsibility incumbent upon each and every Jew. The reality we perceive is one of a fractured Torah world. One side claims that to live today in chutz la?aretz is not only the non-performance of a Torah mitzvva, it is the negation of HaShem?s chessed (compassion) which is a very severe sin. While the other side waits for a message from heaven that the time has arrived to return. In situations such as this the matter comes before the heavenly bet din for adjudication, which usually ends with a harsh decision over our inability to resolve these matters with the halachic tools we were given. I have pity in my heart for what awaits our brothers and sisters in the galut. Shabbat Shalom Nachman Kahana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/efa3637d/attachment.html From chcashmore at hotmail.com Thu Jun 4 07:30:33 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:30:33 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] "A Club of Club-Wielding Jews" Message-ID: Fantastic thought provoking article thanks Hanoch = (I'm really enjoying reading all the things you post.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/7e9d6c0f/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 07:39:32 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 08:39:32 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "A Club of Club-Wielding Jews" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <855590370906040539o2080db1ay3e825d1437f2d80b@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Catherine! :-) There's a LOT more material on the way, particularly over the next year... Best regards, * Hanoch * On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Catherine Cashmore wrote: > Fantastic thought provoking article thanks Hanoch = (I'm really enjoying > reading all the things you post.) > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/34dbefb4/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Thu Jun 4 07:56:05 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 08:56:05 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] New Book on Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer References: Message-ID: I got a copy of this yesterday and it looks really amazing. I recommend you take a look if you are interested in the subject, which I know many of you are. Take care, James Tabor Begin forwarded message: > From: "ngordon4" > Date: June 4, 2009 7:58:02 AM EDT > To: karaite_korner_news at yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Karaite Korner Newsletter] #386: New Book on Hebrew > Origins of the Lord's Prayer > Reply-To: karaite_korner_news-owner at yahoogroups.com > > > > Karaite Korner Newsletter #386 > > New Book on Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer > > I have been working for the past two years on a super secret > project: a detailed study of the Hebrew origins of the Lord's > Prayer. The results of this research are presented in my new book > entitled "A Prayer to Our Father", now available from the book's > official website: > http://www.APrayerToOurFather.com/ > > The book also has a fan-page on Facebook: > http://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Prayer-to-Our-Father/64724168340 > Login to Facebook to get full access to the page and click on > "become a fan" to receive updates and other useful information about > the book. > > Nehemia Gordon > > > __._,_.___ > Messages in this topic (1)Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > Messages > MARKETPLACE > I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part Time!. > $9000/Month at Home. Learn how Part Time, online!. > Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > families, for the world and for each other > > Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch > format to Traditional > Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > RECENT ACTIVITY > 25 > New Members > Visit Your Group > Yahoo! News > Odd News > You won't believe > it, but it's true > Yahoo! Finance > It's Now Personal > Guides, news, > advice & more. > New web site? > Drive traffic now. > Get your business > on Yahoo! search. > . > > __,_._,___ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/b483c8d3/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Thu Jun 4 08:24:08 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (creechmargie at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 06:24:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] UPDATE JOB INTERVIEW! Message-ID: <40507.11079.qm@web58508.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Betty, I want you to know that I will continue to pray for you until HaShem opens up a teaching job.? You sound?like?teaching is definately your calling.? I can relate?so much to the tears and laughter over the memories of your students.? I don't think I ever laughed or cried as much as I did with the kids I taught.? As far as I was concerned they?were my kids.??? I could always tell the ones who had had?caring elementary?teachers and those who hadn't.? Some teach for a paycheck and then some teach for the love of children.? You are one of those wonderful teachers that impact your students lives forever.??I'm sure everyone?can go back to that one teacher that made of difference in their life.? Mine just happened to be my first grade teacher.??Your love for?teaching kids reminds me of her.? ?I just know?Ha Shem is going to open?up a teaching job not only for you but?in answer to some parent's prayer for their child to have a teacher?with your love and concern. ?So you actually?have prayers coming from both sides of the coin.? Be blessed today. ? Margie??? --- On Wed, 6/3/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: RE: [Dialogue] UPDATE JOB INTERVIEW! To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 10:48 PM Dear friends (Pat, Cornie, Kim, Hanoch, Steve, John, Margie and all who answered my email individually and all who prayed for me), ? Thank you so much for your individual emails offering love, support and encouragement and your prayers! The interview went beautifully!? I was amazed at how calm and composed and relaxed I was.? I just felt at ease and so uplifted.? I do believe that HaShem was indeed with me and that as a result, I found favor with those doing the interviewing. ? Some of you will who know me will get tickled when I tell you this, but I was very much myself!? This was quite evident as the very first question that was asked of me related to why I wanted to teach and what motivates me as a teacher?I had only uttered about two words when the emotions started up and I got all teary-eyed; the counselor who was leading the interview had to get up and put a box of tissues on the table in front of me as she grabbed a tissue as well.? ?I apologized for my tears as I tried to explain how much teaching means to me?the counselor and the other teachers were very gracious?and before long the counselor and I weren?t the only ones delving into the box of tissues!? But it wasn?t all tears?we laughed too as I related a couple of funny kid stories? and there were serious moments too and nods of agreement as the interview went on? it was all good. ? ?I don?t think I ever remember having an experience quite like this in a business setting?it was as if I was there and going thru the motions of opening my mouth and talking and the words were just flowing out?so much so, that I answered many of their questions before they even asked them. ? It was really a beautiful experience, positive all around?I was able to be me?and become emotional, as teaching is so much a part of me and has been all my life?yet I was able to maintain an attitude of professionalism. ?I give HaShem all the glory because without Him and without all your prayers and encouragement, It just wouldn?t have gone so smoothly. ? I am not expecting to hear anything right away as there is a hiring freeze.? If I secure the job, then that will be great.? If not, then I will not take it personally, because I know I gave it my all.? I will keep you posted on any new developments.? In the next few days, I intend to be spending a lot of time on my computer doing more on line applications for all the area school districts. ? My love and thanks to all of you, ? ? Elisheva/Betty ? From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:10 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! ? Got your message this morning and I'm praying! ? Love you, ? Pat ? From: Betty K Givin Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:49 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! ? Friends,? I just wanted to let you know that I have a job interview tomorrow at 2:30pm Central time as a teacher for first or second grade.? The catch is that our school district has a job freeze in effect now due to overspending and mismanagement, so things are being cut from the budget.? There are teachers who have contracts, but no positions, so this may be a waste for me to go to the interview.? But since I was called by the Assistant Principal of a school where I did some long term substitute teaching, apparently she has confidence in me as a teacher, so I do not want to turn down any opportunities in case the freeze is lifted.? So we will see.? Any of you that are inclined to pray for me, please do.? I have only gone for one job interview (except in college) in my entire life, so I do not have much experience in this realm and am a bit nervous.? I would ask that any who want to pray would ask that HaShem go before me and give me favor with the interviewers.? I have a ton of experience and know that I am very qualified, but sometimes get tongue-tied when I am nervous. ? Also, a Baruch HaShem, it looks like Roger will have another temp job reviewing files.? This one will be done from home, so that will be good! ? Thank you all for your thoughts and your prayers and for being my friends, some over many years and some only recently?you are each special and I am grateful for you all! ? Love, ? Elisheva/Betty ? _______________________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/c64514a5/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 11:47:23 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:47:23 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Today's quote Message-ID: <855590370906040947y411c3c1gb68fcbe755f0bdd6@mail.gmail.com> *"Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny..." Rabbi Yoda* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/6d5361b6/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Thu Jun 4 17:00:17 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:00:17 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] UPDATE JOB INTERVIEW! In-Reply-To: <40507.11079.qm@web58508.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <40507.11079.qm@web58508.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Margie and all, Thanks so much, Margie, for your kind words below and for your encouragement and your continued prayers. Yes, I do genuinely care about the kids I teach, maybe to a fault, if that is possible. Thanks, all of you! I appreciate you! Much love, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of creechmargie at yahoo.com Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 8:24 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] UPDATE JOB INTERVIEW! Betty, I want you to know that I will continue to pray for you until HaShem opens up a teaching job. You sound like teaching is definately your calling. I can relate so much to the tears and laughter over the memories of your students. I don't think I ever laughed or cried as much as I did with the kids I taught. As far as I was concerned they were my kids. I could always tell the ones who had had caring elementary teachers and those who hadn't. Some teach for a paycheck and then some teach for the love of children. You are one of those wonderful teachers that impact your students lives forever. I'm sure everyone can go back to that one teacher that made of difference in their life. Mine just happened to be my first grade teacher. Your love for teaching kids reminds me of her. I just know Ha Shem is going to open up a teaching job not only for you but in answer to some parent's prayer for their child to have a teacher with your love and concern. So you actually have prayers coming from both sides of the coin. Be blessed today. Margie --- On Wed, 6/3/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: RE: [Dialogue] UPDATE JOB INTERVIEW! To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 10:48 PM Dear friends (Pat, Cornie, Kim, Hanoch, Steve, John, Margie and all who answered my email individually and all who prayed for me), Thank you so much for your individual emails offering love, support and encouragement and your prayers! The interview went beautifully! I was amazed at how calm and composed and relaxed I was. I just felt at ease and so uplifted. I do believe that HaShem was indeed with me and that as a result, I found favor with those doing the interviewing. Some of you will who know me will get tickled when I tell you this, but I was very much myself! This was quite evident as the very first question that was asked of me related to why I wanted to teach and what motivates me as a teacher.I had only uttered about two words when the emotions started up and I got all teary-eyed; the counselor who was leading the interview had to get up and put a box of tissues on the table in front of me as she grabbed a tissue as well. I apologized for my tears as I tried to explain how much teaching means to me.the counselor and the other teachers were very gracious.and before long the counselor and I weren't the only ones delving into the box of tissues! But it wasn't all tears.we laughed too as I related a couple of funny kid stories. and there were serious moments too and nods of agreement as the interview went on. it was all good. I don't think I ever remember having an experience quite like this in a business setting.it was as if I was there and going thru the motions of opening my mouth and talking and the words were just flowing out.so much so, that I answered many of their questions before they even asked them. It was really a beautiful experience, positive all around.I was able to be me.and become emotional, as teaching is so much a part of me and has been all my life.yet I was able to maintain an attitude of professionalism. I give HaShem all the glory because without Him and without all your prayers and encouragement, It just wouldn't have gone so smoothly. I am not expecting to hear anything right away as there is a hiring freeze. If I secure the job, then that will be great. If not, then I will not take it personally, because I know I gave it my all. I will keep you posted on any new developments. In the next few days, I intend to be spending a lot of time on my computer doing more on line applications for all the area school districts. My love and thanks to all of you, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:10 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! Got your message this morning and I'm praying! Love you, Pat From: Betty K Givin Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:49 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] JOB INTERVIEW TOMORROW!!! Friends, I just wanted to let you know that I have a job interview tomorrow at 2:30pm Central time as a teacher for first or second grade. The catch is that our school district has a job freeze in effect now due to overspending and mismanagement, so things are being cut from the budget. There are teachers who have contracts, but no positions, so this may be a waste for me to go to the interview. But since I was called by the Assistant Principal of a school where I did some long term substitute teaching, apparently she has confidence in me as a teacher, so I do not want to turn down any opportunities in case the freeze is lifted. So we will see. Any of you that are inclined to pray for me, please do. I have only gone for one job interview (except in college) in my entire life, so I do not have much experience in this realm and am a bit nervous. I would ask that any who want to pray would ask that HaShem go before me and give me favor with the interviewers. I have a ton of experience and know that I am very qualified, but sometimes get tongue-tied when I am nervous. Also, a Baruch HaShem, it looks like Roger will have another temp job reviewing files. This one will be done from home, so that will be good! Thank you all for your thoughts and your prayers and for being my friends, some over many years and some only recently.you are each special and I am grateful for you all! Love, Elisheva/Betty _____ _______________________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/63b56d9d/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Thu Jun 4 19:01:22 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 20:01:22 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Obama in Egypt Message-ID: <35F2E251A7914A0C8103C24854EA2426@MarvinLT> Fox news reported that while on tour in the tombs in Egypt, Obama make a discovery. While looking at the drawings he noticed a portrait of himself that had been carved in the walls thousands of years ago.. He stated that the drawing looked like him. Obama is reported to have said, "Look at those big ears, that looks like me". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/f6f73032/attachment.html From tposborne77 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 4 19:21:32 2009 From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com (Tracy Osborne) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 17:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Obama in Egypt In-Reply-To: <35F2E251A7914A0C8103C24854EA2426@MarvinLT> References: <35F2E251A7914A0C8103C24854EA2426@MarvinLT> Message-ID: <835195.75415.qm@web51110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Marvin, That is exactly as it happened. I watched him and heard him. Tracy ________________________________ From: mhyde To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2009 8:01:22 PM Subject: [Dialogue] Obama in Egypt ? ? Fox news reported that while on tour in the tombs in Egypt, Obama make a discovery. ?While looking at the drawings he noticed a portrait of himself that had been carved in the walls thousands of years ago..? He stated that the drawing looked like him.? Obama is reported to have said, ??Look at those big ears, that looks like me?. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/6043a418/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jun 4 22:20:17 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:20:17 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] SHABBAT SHALOM. Message-ID: <4A288EF1.6080906@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090605/89876348/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Thu Jun 4 22:51:52 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:51:52 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] SHABBAT SHALOM. In-Reply-To: <4A288EF1.6080906@westnet.com.au> References: <4A288EF1.6080906@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Shabbat Shalom to you as well, Joe! We have certainly missed you during your current work exile, but many of us have been there and can identify with you. I pray that things will normalize for you soon. Thank you for your good wishes and the lovely greeting and inspirational song and video! Have a beautiful and refreshing Shabbat.may it be a true "island in time" for you, Joe! We will welcome you back with open arms upon your return.until then, may HaShem grant keep you in His care and bless you with his shalom! Much love! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of JOE INDOMENICO Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:20 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] SHABBAT SHALOM. Shalom Chaverim, just a brief note during a lull in hostilities to express that you are all in my heart and prayers during my current work exile. I pray that things will normalize soon. On the issue of prayers. Here is my favourite Shabbat song "Avinu Shebashamayim - Tzur Yisrael" - "Our Father in Heaven - Rock of Yisrael" In these troubled times of world instability may the grace of HaShem comfort us all .... especially the Nation of Yisrael in the land and scattered throughout the globe. May we unite as we sing this uplifting anthem. The words are excellent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGW25IslCig &feature=related Shabbat Shalom, miss you all. JOE. ps : great news Elisheva , may HaShem open the doors of your heart's desires. Blessed are the children!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b09oREzEqdE pps: Marvin, Obama does look like an ancient Egyptian Pharaoh. He has the words to match too. He certainly forgot what the Jews did for Eretz Yisrael and the USA. He is infatuated with Islam and what the Palestinians SUPPOSEDLY deserve. He quoted the Koran. Shame, someone should tell him to read THE BOOK - TANACK!!!! He is now on a collision course with RIBBONO SHEL' OLAM , the author and inspirer of THE BOOK - TANACK. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090604/542fb0e2/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 05:31:15 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 06:31:15 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A tremendous insight into prayer Message-ID: <855590370906050331g382b2c88ge809cd8cb5d53c80@mail.gmail.com> A tremendous insight into prayer from HaRav Kook, Of Blessed Memory. Shabbat Shalom, *Hanoch* *Beha'alotecha: Praying 'Against' God * *Defending the People* Adjustment to the harsh realities of life in the wilderness was not easy for the newly-freed slaves. "*The people began to complain... When God heard, He displayed His anger, and God's fire flared out, consuming the edge of the camp*" [Num. 11:1]. The people cried out to Moses for help, and Moses defended them before God. "*Moses prayed to God, and the fire died down.*" The Torah does not tell us what exactly Moses said to God. But the Sages wrote that Moses spoke out forcefully in defense of the people. In fact, the Talmud suggests that Moses' prayer was so audacious, that Moses didn't pray *to* God - he prayed *against* God [*Berachot* 32a]. *Praying Against God?* Rav Kook noted that the expression "*praying to God*" is uncommon. Often, the Torah just says, 'he prayed.' It is understood that prayer is directed towards God. Yet there is an additional reason why the phrase 'to pray to God' is abnormal. The Hebrew verb *lehitpaleil* ('to pray') is in the reflexive tense. This grammatical form emphasizes the emotional impact of prayer back on the soul. The introspective nature of prayer brings out an outpouring of enlightened emotion within the soul. It is therefore fitting to speak of praying *lifnei* *Hashem*, meaning to pray 'before God' or 'facing God.' This phrase indicates that one has directed one's heart and mind to contemplate God in prayer. However, it is unrealistic to speak about praying "*to God.*" The clarity of enlightenment that one may attain through intellectual study and reflection goes far beyond the emotional inspiration experienced in prayer. Praying 'to God' would indicate that one attained a heightened awareness of the Creator, and through concentrated prayer was somehow able to achieve an emotional uplifting of the soul at this elevated cognitive level. *Moses' Remarkable Prayer* Therefore the Sages emphasized the tremendous struggle and conflict in Moses' extraordinary prayer. It was as if he had prayed 'against God.' Moses needed to defy the normal limitations of prayer. This explanation is reinforced from a literal reading of the Midrashic text, which states that Moses "*hurled words towards heaven,*" providing us with an image of one who forcefully heaves an object upwards, fighting against the laws of gravity as he throws it higher than he can reach. What enabled Moses to attain such a remarkable prayer? His holy soul poured forth with such passionate yearnings towards perfection that his inspired prayer was able to surpass his intellectual grasp of Divine providence. This unusual phenomenon sometimes occurs with giants of the spirit; it testifies to the purity of their natural inner longings for good and perfection. [adapted from *Ein Eyah* vol. I, p. 140] Rav Kook on the Net: RavKookTorah.org This week's Dvar Torah: RavKook.co.nr This Dvar Torah: BEHAALOT60.htm To subscribe/unsubscribe or comments, write to: Rav Kook List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090605/a33c1b19/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 07:22:54 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 05:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] SHABBAT SHALOM. Message-ID: <670443.41458.qm@web33305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Shabbat Shalom Chaverim, ? It is good to hear from you again Joe.? Thank you for the lovely songs.? As always they are uplifting and inspritional.? I pray all in the group have a blessed Shabbat as we continue to lift up Israel during these?crazy times. ? Susan? --- On Thu, 6/4/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: RE: [Dialogue] SHABBAT SHALOM. To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 10:51 PM Shabbat Shalom to you as well, Joe! ? We have certainly missed you during your current work exile, but many of us have been there and can identify with you.? I pray that things will normalize for you soon.? Thank you for your good wishes and the lovely greeting and inspirational song and video!? Have a beautiful and refreshing Shabbat?may it be a true ?island in time? for you, Joe!? We will welcome you back with open arms upon your return?until then, may HaShem grant keep you in His care and bless you with his shalom! ? Much love!? ? Elisheva/Betty ? From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of JOE INDOMENICO Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:20 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] SHABBAT SHALOM. ? Shalom Chaverim, just a brief note during a lull in hostilities to express that you are all in my heart and prayers during my current work exile. I pray that things will normalize soon. On the issue of prayers. Here is my favourite Shabbat song "Avinu Shebashamayim - Tzur Yisrael" - "Our Father in Heaven - Rock of Yisrael" In these troubled times of world instability may the grace of HaShem comfort us all .... especially the Nation of Yisrael in the land and scattered throughout the globe. May we unite as we sing this uplifting anthem. The words are excellent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGW25IslCig&feature=related Shabbat Shalom, miss you all. JOE. ps : great news Elisheva , may HaShem open the doors of your heart's desires. Blessed are the children!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b09oREzEqdE pps: Marvin, Obama does look like an ancient Egyptian Pharaoh. He has the words to match too. He certainly forgot what the Jews did for Eretz Yisrael and the USA . He is infatuated with Islam and what the Palestinians SUPPOSEDLY deserve. He quoted the Koran. Shame, someone should tell him to read THE BOOK - TANACK!!!! He is now on a collision course with RIBBONO SHEL' OLAM , the author and inspirer of THE BOOK - TANACK. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090605/56991fcd/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Fri Jun 5 08:03:12 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:03:12 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] SHABBAT SHALOM. In-Reply-To: <4A288EF1.6080906@westnet.com.au> References: <4A288EF1.6080906@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: So wonderful to hear from you, Joe, SHABBAT SHALOM. You are missed. And it's funny that people, including "O" are beginning to see his resemblance to an Egyptian. I've thought of him as Phara"O"h for some time. Now we must look for the Prophet like unto Moses!!! Avigail From: JOE INDOMENICO Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:20 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] SHABBAT SHALOM. Shalom Chaverim, just a brief note during a lull in hostilities to express that you are all in my heart and prayers during my current work exile. I pray that things will normalize soon. On the issue of prayers. Here is my favourite Shabbat song "Avinu Shebashamayim - Tzur Yisrael" - "Our Father in Heaven - Rock of Yisrael" In these troubled times of world instability may the grace of HaShem comfort us all .... especially the Nation of Yisrael in the land and scattered throughout the globe. May we unite as we sing this uplifting anthem. The words are excellent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGW25IslCig&feature=related Shabbat Shalom, miss you all. JOE. ps : great news Elisheva , may HaShem open the doors of your heart's desires. Blessed are the children!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b09oREzEqdE pps: Marvin, Obama does look like an ancient Egyptian Pharaoh. He has the words to match too. He certainly forgot what the Jews did for Eretz Yisrael and the USA. He is infatuated with Islam and what the Palestinians SUPPOSEDLY deserve. He quoted the Koran. Shame, someone should tell him to read THE BOOK - TANACK!!!! He is now on a collision course with RIBBONO SHEL' OLAM , the author and inspirer of THE BOOK - TANACK. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090605/13e05de5/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Fri Jun 5 08:53:33 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:53:33 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Behar-Bechukosai.mp3 (audio/mpeg Object)] In-Reply-To: <880365.45853.qm@web82506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <880365.45853.qm@web82506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6EDF6361-0256-47F2-B5B0-FE54374E089C@earthlink.net> Thanks for this Helen. We met her at our UIWU meeting in April, 2008 and everyone loved her good spirit so very much. I am glad to get this report on her. James On May 17, 2009, at 7:52 PM, Helen Lusk wrote: > Shalom, Joe: > > Inju (Adayah) has asked me to respond to your e-mail and to give you > a short overview of her journey to Hashem and truth.She enjoyed the > snippet of video of the opera you sent. She loves opera.. > She was born in South Korea and has memories as a child of her > mother praying to the Creator of Heaven and Earth. She has always > had an inner desire to seek and know the truth about God. > She traveled the path of Christianity and was obsessed with reading > the bible. She and I met at a Christian book store in 1990 where I > volunteered one day a week while I was recovering form shoulder > surgery. From there she and her two sons Sean and Mike joined our > litle study group with the Nettletons and Linda and Rudy, Jim and I, > Adrienne and Larry and Heather. We would often have Sabbath dinner > together and study the weekly Parsha on Friday evenings and then > study on Sabbath together..We became fast friends and have helped > one another in so many ways over the years. Inju calls me her > spiritual sister and I feel the same about her. > > We learned a lot from Joseph Good and later we read James's > manuscript " Restoring Abrahamic Faith" which was the real turning > point. Later after studying with Rabbis, the Nettletons, Rudy and > Linda and Jim and I converted to Orthodox Judaism, Inju's work > schedule did not allow her the study time but two years ago she did > convert to Conservative Judaism. > Unfortunately or perhaps providentially she underwent neck surgery > last year and this year shoulder surgery which meant she has m=not > been able to return to work, but during ths time she has had time to > pursue her love of Torah study and Hebrew language and now Zohar and > Mishnah. She is now studying with an Orthodox rabbi and hopes to > convert to Orthodox Judaism as soon as possible. Her long term plan > is to,make aliyah. > I hope I have done her the justice and honor she deserves with her > perseverance in crying out to Hashem to show her His truth. She has > done well especially trying to study in a second language. > > > Shalom and kind regards, > > Helen > > > -- On Sat, 5/16/09, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: > From: JOE INDOMENICO > Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Behar-Bechukosai.mp3 (audio/mpeg > Object)] > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 3:54 AM > > Shavua Tov Adayah, > > I am also taken by the message of Ari Goldwag, the message of the > Yovel - Jubilee. > During the Shabbat I read some very interesting Midrashim on the > Haftarah of Behar - Jeremiah 32 v 6-27. > I had a very interesting discussion about these with the Rabbi. > These also relate to the Yovel and the end time implications of > these verses. > I am still swimming in a sea of subliminal bliss. > > Unfortunately we are off to Brisbane tonight to watch Giuseppe > Verdi's Opera "La Traviata." > You can take the Catholic out of me but the Italian, well ...... > Mamma Mia. For those who are not Opera buffs please still watch this > amazing video. You will not be let down. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldD2eKSZMWg > > So savlanut. Bli Neder , I will share some of these gems with you on > my return or early tomorrow morning Australian time. They are from > the sod of the Pardes. > > Adayah, I received an email from you early in the month of January > regarding the "Israel Project" for which I am very thankful. Amazing > information. > You did not formally introduce yourself. Now I know who you are. My > apologies for not replying. I really did not know who you were. I > thought the email was from Israel and I flowed it on to all my > Israeli chaverim. > > So I would like very much to formally welcome you to the dialogue. > Shalom and greetings to you from the sunny Gold Coast of Australia. > I do hope to hear more from you and that you will tell the group > more about yourself. > > One final note. > Ari Goldwag is not only a good teacher, but a very talented > musician. He is a very close mate of Rabbi Lazer Brody. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIJsJ3U8Iks > > Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > > > > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090605/0803ce9d/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Fri Jun 5 13:53:58 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:53:58 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re:INJU [Dialogue] Behar-Bechukosai.mp3 (audio/mpeg Object)] In-Reply-To: <6EDF6361-0256-47F2-B5B0-FE54374E089C@earthlink.net> References: <880365.45853.qm@web82506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6EDF6361-0256-47F2-B5B0-FE54374E089C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E483909E6944C6BB7F370C23CF10E62@bettylaptop> Yes, Helen, thank you for sharing on Inju's behalf. She is a lovely lady! She captured many of our hearts in at April meeting in 2008! I was not aware that she that she had not been able to go back to work. Somehow I must have missed the report on her shoulder surgery this year. How is she doing? I will keep her in my prayers. Please give her my love and tell her that I will be praying for her! And if you ever see or hear from the Nettleton's, please pass on love from both Roger and me. Thru the years, we have lost touch and that makes me sad. Shabbat Shalom! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of James Tabor Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:54 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Behar-Bechukosai.mp3 (audio/mpeg Object)] Thanks for this Helen. We met her at our UIWU meeting in April, 2008 and everyone loved her good spirit so very much. I am glad to get this report on her. James On May 17, 2009, at 7:52 PM, Helen Lusk wrote: Shalom, Joe: Inju (Adayah) has asked me to respond to your e-mail and to give you a short overview of her journey to Hashem and truth.She enjoyed the snippet of video of the opera you sent. She loves opera.. She was born in South Korea and has memories as a child of her mother praying to the Creator of Heaven and Earth. She has always had an inner desire to seek and know the truth about God. She traveled the path of Christianity and was obsessed with reading the bible. She and I met at a Christian book store in 1990 where I volunteered one day a week while I was recovering form shoulder surgery. From there she and her two sons Sean and Mike joined our litle study group with the Nettletons and Linda and Rudy, Jim and I, Adrienne and Larry and Heather. We would often have Sabbath dinner together and study the weekly Parsha on Friday evenings and then study on Sabbath together..We became fast friends and have helped one another in so many ways over the years. Inju calls me her spiritual sister and I feel the same about her. We learned a lot from Joseph Good and later we read James's manuscript " Restoring Abrahamic Faith" which was the real turning point. Later after studying with Rabbis, the Nettletons, Rudy and Linda and Jim and I converted to Orthodox Judaism, Inju's work schedule did not allow her the study time but two years ago she did convert to Conservative Judaism. Unfortunately or perhaps providentially she underwent neck surgery last year and this year shoulder surgery which meant she has m=not been able to return to work, but during ths time she has had time to pursue her love of Torah study and Hebrew language and now Zohar and Mishnah. She is now studying with an Orthodox rabbi and hopes to convert to Orthodox Judaism as soon as possible. Her long term plan is to,make aliyah. I hope I have done her the justice and honor she deserves with her perseverance in crying out to Hashem to show her His truth. She has done well especially trying to study in a second language. Shalom and kind regards, Helen -- On Sat, 5/16/09, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: From: JOE INDOMENICO Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Behar-Bechukosai.mp3 (audio/mpeg Object)] To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 3:54 AM Shavua Tov Adayah, I am also taken by the message of Ari Goldwag, the message of the Yovel - Jubilee. During the Shabbat I read some very interesting Midrashim on the Haftarah of Behar - Jeremiah 32 v 6-27. I had a very interesting discussion about these with the Rabbi. These also relate to the Yovel and the end time implications of these verses. I am still swimming in a sea of subliminal bliss. Unfortunately we are off to Brisbane tonight to watch Giuseppe Verdi's Opera "La Traviata." You can take the Catholic out of me but the Italian, well ...... Mamma Mia. For those who are not Opera buffs please still watch this amazing video. You will not be let down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldD2eKSZMWg So savlanut. Bli Neder , I will share some of these gems with you on my return or early tomorrow morning Australian time. They are from the sod of the Pardes. Adayah, I received an email from you early in the month of January regarding the "Israel Project" for which I am very thankful. Amazing information. You did not formally introduce yourself. Now I know who you are. My apologies for not replying. I really did not know who you were. I thought the email was from Israel and I flowed it on to all my Israeli chaverim. So I would like very much to formally welcome you to the dialogue. Shalom and greetings to you from the sunny Gold Coast of Australia. I do hope to hear more from you and that you will tell the group more about yourself. One final note. Ari Goldwag is not only a good teacher, but a very talented musician. He is a very close mate of Rabbi Lazer Brody. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIJsJ3U8Iks Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090605/dd4781f2/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Fri Jun 5 13:53:58 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:53:58 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re:INJU [Dialogue] Behar-Bechukosai.mp3 (audio/mpeg Object)] In-Reply-To: <6EDF6361-0256-47F2-B5B0-FE54374E089C@earthlink.net> References: <880365.45853.qm@web82506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6EDF6361-0256-47F2-B5B0-FE54374E089C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4B1135D012BC45FFB9CF251D3E486CA4@bettylaptop> Yes, Helen, thank you for sharing on Inju's behalf. She is a lovely lady! She captured many of our hearts in at April meeting in 2008! I was not aware that she that she had not been able to go back to work. Somehow I must have missed the report on her shoulder surgery this year. How is she doing? I will keep her in my prayers. Please give her my love and tell her that I will be praying for her! And if you ever see or hear from the Nettleton's, please pass on love from both Roger and me. Thru the years, we have lost touch and that makes me sad. Shabbat Shalom! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of James Tabor Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:54 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Behar-Bechukosai.mp3 (audio/mpeg Object)] Thanks for this Helen. We met her at our UIWU meeting in April, 2008 and everyone loved her good spirit so very much. I am glad to get this report on her. James On May 17, 2009, at 7:52 PM, Helen Lusk wrote: Shalom, Joe: Inju (Adayah) has asked me to respond to your e-mail and to give you a short overview of her journey to Hashem and truth.She enjoyed the snippet of video of the opera you sent. She loves opera.. She was born in South Korea and has memories as a child of her mother praying to the Creator of Heaven and Earth. She has always had an inner desire to seek and know the truth about God. She traveled the path of Christianity and was obsessed with reading the bible. She and I met at a Christian book store in 1990 where I volunteered one day a week while I was recovering form shoulder surgery. From there she and her two sons Sean and Mike joined our litle study group with the Nettletons and Linda and Rudy, Jim and I, Adrienne and Larry and Heather. We would often have Sabbath dinner together and study the weekly Parsha on Friday evenings and then study on Sabbath together..We became fast friends and have helped one another in so many ways over the years. Inju calls me her spiritual sister and I feel the same about her. We learned a lot from Joseph Good and later we read James's manuscript " Restoring Abrahamic Faith" which was the real turning point. Later after studying with Rabbis, the Nettletons, Rudy and Linda and Jim and I converted to Orthodox Judaism, Inju's work schedule did not allow her the study time but two years ago she did convert to Conservative Judaism. Unfortunately or perhaps providentially she underwent neck surgery last year and this year shoulder surgery which meant she has m=not been able to return to work, but during ths time she has had time to pursue her love of Torah study and Hebrew language and now Zohar and Mishnah. She is now studying with an Orthodox rabbi and hopes to convert to Orthodox Judaism as soon as possible. Her long term plan is to,make aliyah. I hope I have done her the justice and honor she deserves with her perseverance in crying out to Hashem to show her His truth. She has done well especially trying to study in a second language. Shalom and kind regards, Helen -- On Sat, 5/16/09, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: From: JOE INDOMENICO Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Behar-Bechukosai.mp3 (audio/mpeg Object)] To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 3:54 AM Shavua Tov Adayah, I am also taken by the message of Ari Goldwag, the message of the Yovel - Jubilee. During the Shabbat I read some very interesting Midrashim on the Haftarah of Behar - Jeremiah 32 v 6-27. I had a very interesting discussion about these with the Rabbi. These also relate to the Yovel and the end time implications of these verses. I am still swimming in a sea of subliminal bliss. Unfortunately we are off to Brisbane tonight to watch Giuseppe Verdi's Opera "La Traviata." You can take the Catholic out of me but the Italian, well ...... Mamma Mia. For those who are not Opera buffs please still watch this amazing video. You will not be let down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldD2eKSZMWg So savlanut. Bli Neder , I will share some of these gems with you on my return or early tomorrow morning Australian time. They are from the sod of the Pardes. Adayah, I received an email from you early in the month of January regarding the "Israel Project" for which I am very thankful. Amazing information. You did not formally introduce yourself. Now I know who you are. My apologies for not replying. I really did not know who you were. I thought the email was from Israel and I flowed it on to all my Israeli chaverim. So I would like very much to formally welcome you to the dialogue. Shalom and greetings to you from the sunny Gold Coast of Australia. I do hope to hear more from you and that you will tell the group more about yourself. One final note. Ari Goldwag is not only a good teacher, but a very talented musician. He is a very close mate of Rabbi Lazer Brody. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIJsJ3U8Iks Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090605/fda56265/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Fri Jun 5 13:59:05 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:59:05 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Double messages! Message-ID: Sorry for the double messages. I just noticed this. When I hit Send, I got a message error that the message could not be sent because the message had been "changed." I had added an additional word to the Subject. So when I went in to try to remove it and resend it, it sent it anyway, so you have two copies. I will be aware of that in the future.we get enough messages as is without "duplicating!" Thanks, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090605/a9918eab/attachment.html From rlibby03 at maine.rr.com Fri Jun 5 18:16:09 2009 From: rlibby03 at maine.rr.com (Dick L) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:16:09 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re:INJU [Dialogue] Behar-Bechukosai.mp3 (audio/mpeg Object)] References: <880365.45853.qm@web82506.mail.mud.yahoo.com><6EDF6361-0256-47F2-B5B0-FE54374E089C@earthlink.net> <4B1135D012BC45FFB9CF251D3E486CA4@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <003401c9e633$9cca3d30$6e01a8c0@user57kkpmrfo8> Give her my Love also. Enjoyed meeting her in 08 also.. Dick L .Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re:INJU [Dialogue] Behar-Bechukosai.mp3 (audio/mpeg Object)] Yes, Helen, thank you for sharing on Inju's behalf. She is a lovely lady! She captured many of our hearts in at April meeting in 2008! I was not aware that she that she had not been able to go back to work. Somehow I must have missed the report on her shoulder surgery this year. How is she doing? I will keep her in my prayers. Please give her my love and tell her that I will be praying for her! And if you ever see or hear from the Nettleton's, please pass on love from both Roger and me. Thru the years, we have lost touch and that makes me sad. Shabbat Shalom! Elisheva/Betty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of James Tabor Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:54 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Behar-Bechukosai.mp3 (audio/mpeg Object)] Thanks for this Helen. We met her at our UIWU meeting in April, 2008 and everyone loved her good spirit so very much. I am glad to get this report on her. James On May 17, 2009, at 7:52 PM, Helen Lusk wrote: Shalom, Joe: Inju (Adayah) has asked me to respond to your e-mail and to give you a short overview of her journey to Hashem and truth.She enjoyed the snippet of video of the opera you sent. She loves opera.. She was born in South Korea and has memories as a child of her mother praying to the Creator of Heaven and Earth. She has always had an inner desire to seek and know the truth about God. She traveled the path of Christianity and was obsessed with reading the bible. She and I met at a Christian book store in 1990 where I volunteered one day a week while I was recovering form shoulder surgery. From there she and her two sons Sean and Mike joined our litle study group with the Nettletons and Linda and Rudy, Jim and I, Adrienne and Larry and Heather. We would often have Sabbath dinner together and study the weekly Parsha on Friday evenings and then study on Sabbath together..We became fast friends and have helped one another in so many ways over the years. Inju calls me her spiritual sister and I feel the same about her. We learned a lot from Joseph Good and later we read James's manuscript " Restoring Abrahamic Faith" which was the real turning point. Later after studying with Rabbis, the Nettletons, Rudy and Linda and Jim and I converted to Orthodox Judaism, Inju's work schedule did not allow her the study time but two years ago she did convert to Conservative Judaism. Unfortunately or perhaps providentially she underwent neck surgery last year and this year shoulder surgery which meant she has m=not been able to return to work, but during ths time she has had time to pursue her love of Torah study and Hebrew language and now Zohar and Mishnah. She is now studying with an Orthodox rabbi and hopes to convert to Orthodox Judaism as soon as possible. Her long term plan is to,make aliyah. I hope I have done her the justice and honor she deserves with her perseverance in crying out to Hashem to show her His truth. She has done well especially trying to study in a second language. Shalom and kind regards, Helen -- On Sat, 5/16/09, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: From: JOE INDOMENICO Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Behar-Bechukosai.mp3 (audio/mpeg Object)] To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 3:54 AM Shavua Tov Adayah, I am also taken by the message of Ari Goldwag, the message of the Yovel - Jubilee. During the Shabbat I read some very interesting Midrashim on the Haftarah of Behar - Jeremiah 32 v 6-27. I had a very interesting discussion about these with the Rabbi. These also relate to the Yovel and the end time implications of these verses. I am still swimming in a sea of subliminal bliss. Unfortunately we are off to Brisbane tonight to watch Giuseppe Verdi's Opera "La Traviata." You can take the Catholic out of me but the Italian, well ...... Mamma Mia. For those who are not Opera buffs please still watch this amazing video. You will not be let down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldD2eKSZMWg So savlanut. Bli Neder , I will share some of these gems with you on my return or early tomorrow morning Australian time. They are from the sod of the Pardes. Adayah, I received an email from you early in the month of January regarding the "Israel Project" for which I am very thankful. Amazing information. You did not formally introduce yourself. Now I know who you are. My apologies for not replying. I really did not know who you were. I thought the email was from Israel and I flowed it on to all my Israeli chaverim. So I would like very much to formally welcome you to the dialogue. Shalom and greetings to you from the sunny Gold Coast of Australia. I do hope to hear more from you and that you will tell the group more about yourself. One final note. Ari Goldwag is not only a good teacher, but a very talented musician. He is a very close mate of Rabbi Lazer Brody. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIJsJ3U8Iks Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090605/564d687e/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 18:57:04 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (Margie Creech) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom Message-ID: <844363.87851.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Shabbat Shalom Everyone, ? I don't know about all of you but I am so blessed by each one of you.? You are all so dear to my heart.? I pray that each one of you will be blessed beyond measure.? My heart is so filled with joy being a part of this group.? You all have influenced my journey so much and I just had to write this and tell you all how much I love you.? May the L-ord bless each one of you with a wonderful Shabbat! ? Margie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090605/1d952352/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Fri Jun 5 23:03:16 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 23:03:16 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom In-Reply-To: <844363.87851.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <844363.87851.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A29EA84.60806@mts.net> Shabat Shalom Margie, I feel the same Cornie Margie Creech wrote: > Shabbat Shalom Everyone, > > I don't know about all of you but I am so blessed by each one of you. > You are all so dear to my heart. I pray that each one of you will be > blessed beyond measure. My heart is so filled with joy being a part > of this group. You all have influenced my journey so much and I just > had to write this and tell you all how much I love you. May the L-ord > bless each one of you with a wonderful Shabbat! > > Margie > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090605/47f25f88/attachment.html From chcashmore at hotmail.com Sat Jun 6 01:12:25 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:12:25 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] "A Club of Club-Wielding Jews" Message-ID: Keep it coming Hanoch! The posts don't just stop here - I get busy sending them to mum and dad and others that really need to know all of this. There is so much we miss if the watchmen don't warn us. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/2b76d221/attachment.html From chcashmore at hotmail.com Sat Jun 6 01:27:56 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:27:56 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] New Book on Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer Message-ID: Just ordered it - will wait in anticipation! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/ff9e5c92/attachment.html From chcashmore at hotmail.com Sat Jun 6 07:04:24 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:04:24 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew Message-ID: I hesitated in posting this because it is so heartbreaking and emotional to read. However I think it's important simply because of the warnings we are all seeing in the news with Obama and Europe which lead me to believe that the articles that Hanoch has posted about returning to Israel are the beginning of our call to get out and return to HaShem. Just thoughts, but things I ponder on... AS-EU:090604:(05-JUN-09):Extent of Nazi Camps Far Greater Than Realized Decade-Long Study by Holocaust Museum Scholars Could Alter Public Understanding By Monica Hesse Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, June 4, 2009 A little more than a decade ago, researchers at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum decided to create an encyclopedia of concentration camps. They assumed the finished work would be massive, featuring a staggering 5,000 to 7,000 camps and ghettos. They underestimated by 15,000. Their ultimate count of more than 20,000 camps -- which they reached after a year of research -- is far more than most scholars had known existed and might reshape public understanding of the scope of the Holocaust itself. "What's going to happen is that the mental universe of how scholars operate is going to change," said Steven Katz, director of Boston University's Elie Wiesel Center for Judaic Studies. "Instead of thinking of main death camps, people are going to understand that this was a continent-wide phenomenon." The Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos: 1933-1945 "is the first major reference work for Holocaust studies since . . . the fall of the U.S.S.R." and the opening of many European archives, says Paul Shapiro, director of the museum's Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies. As a result, more information was available to researchers than had ever been before. Scholars chased footnotes in old books and used Internet mailing lists to find historians who might possess tiny pieces of the puzzle. Volume 1 is scheduled for release June 12. Most of the sites included in the encyclopedia were known, says Geoff Megargee, the encyclopedia project director. "But they were known to one or two people. . . . Sometimes there would be just one person who had done research on one prison." The first volume focuses on SS-run camps and contains more than 1,100 entries written by some 230 contributors. The Holocaust's horror always has been its precision and vastness: how many people died, how many people were complicit, how many countries fell to the Nazi regime. The enormous number of sites catalogued in the museum's encyclopedia reveals that for every commonly known camp -- Auschwitz and Dachau, Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen -- there are literally dozens more that the average reader has likely never heard of. The book is organized as a traditional encyclopedia; each camp or ghetto receives its own alphabetic entry, some with photographs or maps. Few people might realize, Megargee says, that each of the 23 main camps had sub-camps -- nearly 900 sub-camps, each placed into categories with chillingly euphemistic names. There were "care facilities for foreign children," where pregnant prisoners would be sent for forced abortions. There were Germanization camps, where foreign youth with desirable racial features would be indoctrinated. There were youth protection camps for the rebellious German teens who'd been caught listening to jazz. In his decade of working on the project, Megargee says that he never stopped learning of new atrocities or personal stories. "There was a woman who was a professional singer in the barracks" in a sub-camp of Flossenburg, he recalls, "who sang 'Ave Maria' for [her fellow prisoners] one Christmas. She moved the barracks to tears, then a guard overheard her and came and knocked her teeth out." Her story is recounted in the entry on the Wilischthal sub-camp. The book reveals "a complex ecology of coordinated devastation," says Henry Knight, director of Keene State College's Cohen Center for Holocaust Studies in New Hampshire. He has previewed the book, and sees it as particularly useful for college students or serious Holocaust researchers, but adds that "anyone looking through this volume is going to be astounded at how vast the camp system was. . . . It's simply not possible to think of these activities as an aberration when you see all of the information." Shapiro says that the sheer number of camps may end one of the lingering protestations surrounding the Holocaust -- that ordinary people knew nothing of the killing underway in their locales. "In most towns, there was some sort of prison, or holding area or place where people were victimized," Shapiro says. "Think about what this means. For anyone who thinks this took place out of sight of the average person, this shatters that mythology. There was one Auschwitz. There was one Treblinka. But there were 20,000 other camps spread through the rest of Europe." Says Shapiro: "What we are seeing in this project is that all of Europe was a camp." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/aced514b/attachment.html From chcashmore at hotmail.com Sat Jun 6 07:22:29 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:22:29 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom Message-ID: Ditto Margie, Cornie! I pray each day for you all. You are all family. Joined by faith in HaShem. It's so wonderful and you are all so very special. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/7818735c/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sat Jun 6 10:54:19 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 15:54:19 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Message-ID: <060620091554.18348.4A2A912B0007E5A8000047AC22243322829B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Hey all, I spoke with Kim yesterday evening, she is having some technical problems with her computer and probably won't be back on line until tomorrow night. We wanted to move forward a little bit with the idea she had about living the Shema. She previously asked that we set aside Tammuz 17 (July 8-9) as a day prayer and teaching (for our children and others). We wanted to precede that with a day of prayer for all of us to seek guidance from HaShem on ways to reach out to our children and others with Torah truth. So I volunteered to send out this notice for her asking that we set aside Sivan 21 (June 13-14), which is next Shabbat for this day of prayer. The Parashah portion for that day is B'ha'alotkha (When You Set Up..) which is about setting up the seven lamps of the tabernacle. What say you? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/394270ba/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sat Jun 6 11:02:35 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:02:35 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema (correction) Message-ID: <060620091602.284.4A2A931B00081C720000011C22243322829B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Correction, June 12 and 13. Sorry. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/d9907a91/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Sat Jun 6 16:18:46 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:18:46 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> Marvin and all Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like you are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have kept this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, who has for years tried to understand and sympathize with my obnoxious to Christianities, views, but now that her very religious husband passed away within the last year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years of age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on her nerves. She thrived on me being there for her in her bereavement and lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very much Christian children, and children's children. I was trying to be very careful what to share with her, yet she was complaining that I had so many people to share my faith with by e-mail etc. And she had so little. Than I gave her a copy of James book on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems like that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me on the phone one day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO NOW? She can not dare to share it with any of her family. I think she has two preachers if not more as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize with her, for the loss of her husband. But even though she was now freed up from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain of a family bond under the same title!!!!! So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, please pray for her to know how to face life under her present predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe what seemed to convict her that life from here on would have to be without Jesus, on whom she had so much tried to just take all of her burdens and stress. One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the book "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite enthused about it. So she got the idea, if i would send this one back to her, she would offer it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find out what would happen. Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a tooo heavy burden, to ease it off her shoulder, just too heavy for her alone. I am afraid that might almost react like coming up as a suicide bomber!!! I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we read of in /* Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.*/ But I also told her maybe it would be a great idea to share that book with her son-in-law!!! Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One way might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some of you dear ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in time eventually. I could share what you might answer me on this letter with her, and see if she would like to have an e-mail once in a while from whom she might choose. I know this is going to be very tender and touchy. She is just waiting for a Messiah to come and take us all away to higher ground. There is just too much at stake to wait much longer for some kind of relief to come for her. Her family have a lot of health problems as well. May Hashem bless you all. Cornie mhyde wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. > Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a > family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda > --mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the > deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not > study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a > few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were > they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to > them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue > scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they > have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people > in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial...... they would rather > fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after > twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to > get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the > people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form > America. > > > > But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program > and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. > > > > In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass > this on to them? Maybe, we don't...... it is up to God to call who he > will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass > our faith on to the next generation? > > > > I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 > valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the > last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her > relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what...... someone > controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of > her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a > 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon....... It rings > so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church > gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. > Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her > collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to > win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 > or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to > keep their program going..... but as we get older many of us see the > fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then > opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and > desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to > meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people > still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and > reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a > waste of time..... > > > > I have no answer.... I have thought on this subject often these past > couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My > Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way > or other. But everywhere I look around me I don't see anybody batting > that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I'm > missing something..... but I'm believing that Hashem is going to have > to do something to get peoples attention. > > > > I'm done venting...... but still with the question of how do we > reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there > I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. > > > > Shalom, Ya'll > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *kim alvarado > *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Dialogue] Living the Shema > > > > I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts > listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" > > > > Eliron, > > > > I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we > should focus on our families first...especially our children who are > still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in > the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise > up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our > children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought > is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that > you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role > models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is > not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that > are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." > > > > BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We > are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, > we need more. > > > > > > In love, > > Kim > > - Hide quoted text - > > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, > wrote: > > - Hide quoted text - > > Hey James and all, > > > > We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at > Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has > been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware > (especially our children) of this awakening. > > > > Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective > time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" > time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a > very good idea with a very appropriate approach. > > > > I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that > even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's > calling His people out of the nations is something very different > than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a > clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. > > > > But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will > send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not > careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell > into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. > > > > What are y'all's thoughts on this? > > > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/0833fda7/attachment.html From betty_m_eddy at yahoo.com Sat Jun 6 17:44:29 2009 From: betty_m_eddy at yahoo.com (Betty Eddy) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 15:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24 Message-ID: <451790.54615.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Kim, I have deliberated about your answer to my question about what was going on between G-d and Moses.?I am sorry, but I don?t see your logic based on the verses. Exodus:12 says, And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying: Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it; whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death; 21 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish. This was a repeat of verse 12. He was reminding Moses to tell the people to do this. This I understand. What I don?t understand is that verse 22 says, And let the priests also, that come near to the LORD, sanctify themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.' What does this verse mean? He separated the priests from the people, whom He had just mentioned. That implies something different is going on. He also says they were to come near the LORD. Then verse 23 says, And Moses said unto the LORD: 'The people cannot come up to mount Sinai; for thou didst charge us, saying: Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it.' This implies that Moses heard something he didn?t understand from G-d, so what did G-d mean about the priests that come near the LORD? G-d?s answer to this was: verse 24 And the LORD said unto him: 'Go, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee; but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the LORD, lest He break forth upon them.' The second time, G-d said that it was safe for Aaron to come up the mountain. Now G-d adds the people and the priests were not allowed to come up the mountain. This is a change from verse 12. So, either Moses didn?t understand what G-d was saying, or G-d changed his mind. I would like to understand. Betty Eddy --- On Wed, 6/3/09, kim alvarado wrote: From: kim alvarado Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24 To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 1:11 AM Betty, My thoughts about the mountain being in the air (if it did indeed happen-as it is Midrash) is that it was only at the time that HaShem spoke the Ten Words. ?In other words, the mountain rose after Moses had descended and then was back on the ground afterward when Israel asked to no longer HaShem's voice. As a sidenote, Hez just posted something about the Oral Torah on SWW. ?He mentioned that in Midrash, Israel willing accepted the Written Torah, but when it came time to accept the Oral Torah they had to accept, less HaShem drop the mountain on them.? As far as repeating the instruction not to approach the mountain, I believe HaShem knew the weakness of His people. It needed to be repeated. In Exodus 20:19 & 20, HaShem repeated the commandment not to make for yourself gods of silver or gold. ?Alas, to no avail. People write G-d out of respect to different HaShem from the false gods of the nation. Shalom,Kim On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:23 PM, wrote: I have some questions about the reading from last week. Maybe someone could help me. ? Exodus: 12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying: Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it; whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death; 13 no hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live; when the ram's horn soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.' ? A comment. There has been some thought that they stood under the mountain and it became a chuppa, but that couldn?t be so because they wouldn?t have been able to touch it if it were in the air. ? 17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. ? What part was the nether part? . 21 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish. 22 And let the priests also, that come near to the LORD, sanctify themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.' 23 And Moses said unto the LORD: 'The people cannot come up to mount Sinai; for thou didst charge us, saying: Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it.' 24 And the LORD said unto him: 'Go, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee; but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the LORD, lest He break forth upon them.' ? What do these passages mean? At a glance, it sounds like God forgot and Moses reminded Him. Does anyone know what other translations say? ? Another question. Why do people write G-d instead of God? Betty Eddy _______________________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/25a34868/attachment.html From im50332 at bigpond.net.au Sat Jun 6 17:50:54 2009 From: im50332 at bigpond.net.au (Pamela Barbera) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 08:50:54 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew References: Message-ID: <3270275EEA8547CF8CA3C59609B42798@pamelahome> Thank you Catherine, I had watched a program on TV a few years ago that said that there was a camp every 5 miles, and that it was impossible for the people not to know about them. So this article just confirms what was said then. Toda Raba, Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: Catherine Cashmore To: roots Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 10:04 PM Subject: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew I hesitated in posting this because it is so heartbreaking and emotional to read. However I think it's important simply because of the warnings we are all seeing in the news with Obama and Europe which lead me to believe that the articles that Hanoch has posted about returning to Israel are the beginning of our call to get out and return to HaShem. Just thoughts, but things I ponder on... AS-EU:090604:(05-JUN-09):Extent of Nazi Camps Far Greater Than Realized Decade-Long Study by Holocaust Museum Scholars Could Alter Public Understanding By Monica Hesse Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, June 4, 2009 A little more than a decade ago, researchers at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum decided to create an encyclopedia of concentration camps. They assumed the finished work would be massive, featuring a staggering 5,000 to 7,000 camps and ghettos. They underestimated by 15,000. Their ultimate count of more than 20,000 camps -- which they reached after a year of research -- is far more than most scholars had known existed and might reshape public understanding of the scope of the Holocaust itself. "What's going to happen is that the mental universe of how scholars operate is going to change," said Steven Katz, director of Boston University's Elie Wiesel Center for Judaic Studies. "Instead of thinking of main death camps, people are going to understand that this was a continent-wide phenomenon." The Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos: 1933-1945 "is the first major reference work for Holocaust studies since . . . the fall of the U.S.S.R." and the opening of many European archives, says Paul Shapiro, director of the museum's Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies. As a result, more information was available to researchers than had ever been before. Scholars chased footnotes in old books and used Internet mailing lists to find historians who might possess tiny pieces of the puzzle. Volume 1 is scheduled for release June 12. Most of the sites included in the encyclopedia were known, says Geoff Megargee, the encyclopedia project director. "But they were known to one or two people. . . . Sometimes there would be just one person who had done research on one prison." The first volume focuses on SS-run camps and contains more than 1,100 entries written by some 230 contributors. The Holocaust's horror always has been its precision and vastness: how many people died, how many people were complicit, how many countries fell to the Nazi regime. The enormous number of sites catalogued in the museum's encyclopedia reveals that for every commonly known camp -- Auschwitz and Dachau, Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen -- there are literally dozens more that the average reader has likely never heard of. The book is organized as a traditional encyclopedia; each camp or ghetto receives its own alphabetic entry, some with photographs or maps. Few people might realize, Megargee says, that each of the 23 main camps had sub-camps -- nearly 900 sub-camps, each placed into categories with chillingly euphemistic names. There were "care facilities for foreign children," where pregnant prisoners would be sent for forced abortions. There were Germanization camps, where foreign youth with desirable racial features would be indoctrinated. There were youth protection camps for the rebellious German teens who'd been caught listening to jazz. In his decade of working on the project, Megargee says that he never stopped learning of new atrocities or personal stories. "There was a woman who was a professional singer in the barracks" in a sub-camp of Flossenburg, he recalls, "who sang 'Ave Maria' for [her fellow prisoners] one Christmas. She moved the barracks to tears, then a guard overheard her and came and knocked her teeth out." Her story is recounted in the entry on the Wilischthal sub-camp. The book reveals "a complex ecology of coordinated devastation," says Henry Knight, director of Keene State College's Cohen Center for Holocaust Studies in New Hampshire. He has previewed the book, and sees it as particularly useful for college students or serious Holocaust researchers, but adds that "anyone looking through this volume is going to be astounded at how vast the camp system was. . . . It's simply not possible to think of these activities as an aberration when you see all of the information." Shapiro says that the sheer number of camps may end one of the lingering protestations surrounding the Holocaust -- that ordinary people knew nothing of the killing underway in their locales. "In most towns, there was some sort of prison, or holding area or place where people were victimized," Shapiro says. "Think about what this means. For anyone who thinks this took place out of sight of the average person, this shatters that mythology. There was one Auschwitz. There was one Treblinka. But there were 20,000 other camps spread through the rest of Europe." Says Shapiro: "What we are seeing in this project is that all of Europe was a camp." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/f14ddf30/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Sat Jun 6 20:09:50 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:09:50 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony Message-ID: <5CFF59F8-EB03-4654-AA4D-0BF10CD00E2E@earthlink.net> As the Sabbath is fading here in Charlotte, North Carolina I have just now finished a book in which I have been deeply immersed for a good portion of this day. The book has truly brought a Sabbath blessing to my mind and spirit on many levels and I know it won't be off my mind this evening, or for many days to come. The impressions are deep and stirring. I want to recommend this book far and wide. It is one of the most inspiring, instructive, and spiritually important works I have read in a long time. A Prayer to our Father: Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer (www.hilkiahpress.com ) by Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson was just released last week (June 1, 2009). It represents a rare and uncommon collaboration between Nehemiah Gordon, a Jew devoted to the ancient Hebrew faith, and Keith Johnson, a dedicated African American Christian believer and pastor. The book is as much about the remarkable relationship of these two men, and how they embarked on a common quest for the historical and Hebraic origins of the prayer, as it is about the understanding of the prayer itself. Both men represent truly remarkable stories. Gordon, a Chicago native, who now lives in Jerusalem, is a scholar with B.A. and M.A. degrees in Biblical Studies from Hebrew University. Son of an orthodox Rabbi, he is a self-styled "Karaite," or "Scripturalist," as he was fired at an early age to forge his personal understanding of his Jewish faith based on a direct study of the Hebrew Bible. Johnson, who now lives in Charlotte, NC, has his Masters of Divinity from Trinity Evangelical is an ordained minister in the United Methodist Church. He has served as pastor of Park Avenue Church in Minneapolis, and as chaplain of the Minnesota Vikings. The book is written in an autobiographical style that pulls the reader into an engaging, unfolding story, that is every bit an adventure in learning and discovery. The most remarkable aspect of this story for me was to see how Johnson, as a devoted Christian seeking the Hebraic roots of Jesus (Yeshua), was drawn to study Hebrew with Gordon, and how Gordon in turn, without sharing Johnson's messianic views, could nonetheless wholeheartedly participate in the historical quest for the Hebraic roots of Jesus' most famous and well known teaching--the Lord's Prayer. This symbiotic relationship alone makes the book stand out as a unique and singular contribution that can be of great interest to both Christians and Jews. But what is just as remarkable are the results of the historical investigation itself. Johnson and Gordon take turns narrating their stories in a gripping first person style. Central to the book is an analysis of Prayer as it appears in the various copies of Hebrew Matthew preserved by Ibn Shaprut, a 14th century Rabbi living in Spain. This is the text of Hebrew Matthew (called Even Bohen) that Professor George Howard brought to the attention of the academic world in 1987 (see my notes and summary on the Web at: http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/JDTABOR/shemtovweb.html) . I agree with Howard, as do Gordon and Johnson, that this version of Matthew is not merely a translation of our Greek New Testament manuscripts, but represents an independent and ancient source written originally in Hebrew that was passed down in rabbinic circles for centuries. Hebrew Matthew offers us an opportunity to examine the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples in the original Hebrew, rather than an approximated version based on a translation from the Greek. The book is divided into two "terrains," one geographical and the other textual. Gordon and Johnson first examine all available evidence as to where Yeshua might have taught the prayer. They take the reader to all possible geographical locations, from Jerusalem to the Galilee, based on references in the New Testament and other early Christian sources. At each place they relate their own experiences and analysis of what appears to have been the most likely setting for the "mountain" scene depicted in Matthew 5 and Luke 6. They then turn to a line by line, phrase by phrase, analysis of the prayer in Hebrew, compared with the traditional English translations that are based on the Greek. There are surprises and insights at every turn, and frankly, I don't want to spoil the adventure for readers by revealing in this informal review much about the content. Let me just tantalize a bit here and say that no one reading this book, whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, or secularist, will ever be able to think of, much less pray, the AVINU (Hebrew for "Our Father") prayer in the same way again. One's understanding of the simple power and meaning of this prayer will be thoroughly enlightened and transformed. I am pleased to recommend this book to any and all who will take up the challenge to expand their horizons and experience the excitement of historical and textual investigations. You will not be disappointed. James D. Tabor Chair, Dept. of Religious Studies UNC Charlotte Charlotte, NC 28223 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/b19e5d8f/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sat Jun 6 20:35:21 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:35:21 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> Message-ID: Cornie, Will certainly be praying for your sister, Tina, as well as her son-in-law, that they will be set free to cleave to our One and Only Savior, the G-d of Avraham, Yitzchak and Ya'acov. It's wonderful and encouraging to know that you are reaching out to these family members, and that they are hearing. I will remember to pray Is. 43:11 especially for Tina as you have said that she will learn to cast all her burdens on Him, and Him alone. I, even I, am the L-RD, and beside Me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:11 Shavua tov, Dear Friend, Avigail/Pat Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:18:46 -0500 From: cormary at mts.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request Marvin and all Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like you are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have kept this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, who has for years tried to understand and sympathize with my obnoxious to Christianities, views, but now that her very religious husband passed away within the last year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years of age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on her nerves. She thrived on me being there for her in her bereavement and lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very much Christian children, and children's children. I was trying to be very careful what to share with her, yet she was complaining that I had so many people to share my faith with by e-mail etc. And she had so little. Than I gave her a copy of James book on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems like that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me on the phone one day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO NOW? She can not dare to share it with any of her family. I think she has two preachers if not more as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize with her, for the loss of her husband. But even though she was now freed up from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain of a family bond under the same title!!!!! So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, please pray for her to know how to face life under her present predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe what seemed to convict her that life from here on would have to be without Jesus, on whom she had so much tried to just take all of her burdens and stress. One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the book "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite enthused about it. So she got the idea, if i would send this one back to her, she would offer it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find out what would happen. Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a tooo heavy burden, to ease it off her shoulder, just too heavy for her alone. I am afraid that might almost react like coming up as a suicide bomber!!! I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we read of in Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. But I also told her maybe it would be a great idea to share that book with her son-in-law!!! Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One way might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some of you dear ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in time eventually. I could share what you might answer me on this letter with her, and see if she would like to have an e-mail once in a while from whom she might choose. I know this is going to be very tender and touchy. She is just waiting for a Messiah to come and take us all away to higher ground. There is just too much at stake to wait much longer for some kind of relief to come for her. Her family have a lot of health problems as well. May Hashem bless you all. Cornie mhyde wrote: I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America. But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what?? someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon??. It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going?.. but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time?.. I have no answer?. I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don?t see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I?m missing something?.. but I?m believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. I?m done venting?? but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. Shalom, Ya?ll From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/09d4dbb1/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sat Jun 6 20:44:00 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:44:00 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony In-Reply-To: <5CFF59F8-EB03-4654-AA4D-0BF10CD00E2E@earthlink.net> References: <5CFF59F8-EB03-4654-AA4D-0BF10CD00E2E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Thank you, James, for this review of Nehemiah's new book. I ordered it last week and am looking forward to reading it. Also hoping that my son and daughter-in-law will become interested in it. Shavua tov, Pat From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:09:50 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony As the Sabbath is fading here in Charlotte, North Carolina I have just now finished a book in which I have been deeply immersed for a good portion of this day. The book has truly brought a Sabbath blessing to my mind and spirit on many levels and I know it won't be off my mind this evening, or for many days to come. The impressions are deep and stirring. I want to recommend this book far and wide. It is one of the most inspiring, instructive, and spiritually important works I have read in a long time. A Prayer to our Father: Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer (www.hilkiahpress.com) by Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson was just released last week (June 1, 2009). It represents a rare and uncommon collaboration between Nehemiah Gordon, a Jew devoted to the ancient Hebrew faith, and Keith Johnson, a dedicated African American Christian believer and pastor. The book is as much about the remarkable relationship of these two men, and how they embarked on a common quest for the historical and Hebraic origins of the prayer, as it is about the understanding of the prayer itself. Both men represent truly remarkable stories. Gordon, a Chicago native, who now lives in Jerusalem, is a scholar with B.A. and M.A. degrees in Biblical Studies from Hebrew University. Son of an orthodox Rabbi, he is a self-styled "Karaite," or "Scripturalist," as he was fired at an early age to forge his personal understanding of his Jewish faith based on a direct study of the Hebrew Bible. Johnson, who now lives in Charlotte, NC, has his Masters of Divinity from Trinity Evangelical is an ordained minister in the United Methodist Church. He has served as pastor of Park Avenue Church in Minneapolis, and as chaplain of the Minnesota Vikings. The book is written in an autobiographical style that pulls the reader into an engaging, unfolding story, that is every bit an adventure in learning and discovery. The most remarkable aspect of this story for me was to see how Johnson, as a devoted Christian seeking the Hebraic roots of Jesus (Yeshua), was drawn to study Hebrew with Gordon, and how Gordon in turn, without sharing Johnson's messianic views, could nonetheless wholeheartedly participate in the historical quest for the Hebraic roots of Jesus' most famous and well known teaching--the Lord's Prayer. This symbiotic relationship alone makes the book stand out as a unique and singular contribution that can be of great interest to both Christians and Jews. But what is just as remarkable are the results of the historical investigation itself. Johnson and Gordon take turns narrating their stories in a gripping first person style. Central to the book is an analysis of Prayer as it appears in the various copies of Hebrew Matthew preserved by Ibn Shaprut, a 14th century Rabbi living in Spain. This is the text of Hebrew Matthew (called Even Bohen) that Professor George Howard brought to the attention of the academic world in 1987 (see my notes and summary on the Web at: http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/JDTABOR/shemtovweb.html). I agree with Howard, as do Gordon and Johnson, that this version of Matthew is not merely a translation of our Greek New Testament manuscripts, but represents an independent and ancient source written originally in Hebrew that was passed down in rabbinic circles for centuries. Hebrew Matthew offers us an opportunity to examine the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples in the original Hebrew, rather than an approximated version based on a translation from the Greek. The book is divided into two "terrains," one geographical and the other textual. Gordon and Johnson first examine all available evidence as to where Yeshua might have taught the prayer. They take the reader to all possible geographical locations, from Jerusalem to the Galilee, based on references in the New Testament and other early Christian sources. At each place they relate their own experiences and analysis of what appears to have been the most likely setting for the "mountain" scene depicted in Matthew 5 and Luke 6. They then turn to a line by line, phrase by phrase, analysis of the prayer in Hebrew, compared with the traditional English translations that are based on the Greek. There are surprises and insights at every turn, and frankly, I don't want to spoil the adventure for readers by revealing in this informal review much about the content. Let me just tantalize a bit here and say that no one reading this book, whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, or secularist, will ever be able to think of, much less pray, the AVINU (Hebrew for "Our Father") prayer in the same way again. One's understanding of the simple power and meaning of this prayer will be thoroughly enlightened and transformed. I am pleased to recommend this book to any and all who will take up the challenge to expand their horizons and experience the excitement of historical and textual investigations. You will not be disappointed. James D. Tabor Chair, Dept. of Religious Studies UNC Charlotte Charlotte, NC 28223 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/108b9598/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Sat Jun 6 20:46:12 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:46:12 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony In-Reply-To: References: <5CFF59F8-EB03-4654-AA4D-0BF10CD00E2E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <10ABC922-9783-4B56-993D-2C767EACD69B@earthlink.net> I think this might be THE tool to pass on to Christian friends, followed up then by something like RAF. I can't imagine any Christian not being drawn in by this book. James On Jun 6, 2009, at 9:44 PM, patricia robbins wrote: > Thank you, James, for this review of Nehemiah's new book. I ordered > it last week and am looking forward to reading it. Also hoping that > my son and daughter-in-law will become interested in it. > > Shavua tov, > > Pat > > From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:09:50 -0400 > Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal > Testimony > > As the Sabbath is fading here in Charlotte, North Carolina I have > just now finished a book in which I have been deeply immersed for a > good portion of this day. The book has truly brought a Sabbath > blessing to my mind and spirit on many levels and I know it won't be > off my mind this evening, or for many days to come. The impressions > are deep and stirring. I want to recommend this book far and wide. > It is one of the most inspiring, instructive, and spiritually > important works I have read in a long time. > > A Prayer to our Father: Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer (www.hilkiahpress.com > ) by Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson was just released last week > (June 1, 2009). It represents a rare and uncommon collaboration > between Nehemiah Gordon, a Jew devoted to the ancient Hebrew faith, > and Keith Johnson, a dedicated African American Christian believer > and pastor. The book is as much about the remarkable relationship of > these two men, and how they embarked on a common quest for the > historical and Hebraic origins of the prayer, as it is about the > understanding of the prayer itself. > > Both men represent truly remarkable stories. Gordon, a Chicago > native, who now lives in Jerusalem, is a scholar with B.A. and M.A. > degrees in Biblical Studies from Hebrew University. Son of an > orthodox Rabbi, he is a self-styled "Karaite," or "Scripturalist," > as he was fired at an early age to forge his personal understanding > of his Jewish faith based on a direct study of the Hebrew Bible. > Johnson, who now lives in Charlotte, NC, has his Masters of Divinity > from Trinity Evangelical is an ordained minister in the United > Methodist Church. He has served as pastor of Park Avenue Church in > Minneapolis, and as chaplain of the Minnesota Vikings. > > The book is written in an autobiographical style that pulls the > reader into an engaging, unfolding story, that is every bit an > adventure in learning and discovery. The most remarkable aspect of > this story for me was to see how Johnson, as a devoted Christian > seeking the Hebraic roots of Jesus (Yeshua), was drawn to study > Hebrew with Gordon, and how Gordon in turn, without sharing > Johnson's messianic views, could nonetheless wholeheartedly > participate in the historical quest for the Hebraic roots of Jesus' > most famous and well known teaching--the Lord's Prayer. This > symbiotic relationship alone makes the book stand out as a unique > and singular contribution that can be of great interest to both > Christians and Jews. > > But what is just as remarkable are the results of the historical > investigation itself. Johnson and Gordon take turns narrating their > stories in a gripping first person style. Central to the book is an > analysis of Prayer as it appears in the various copies of Hebrew > Matthew preserved by Ibn Shaprut, a 14th century Rabbi living in > Spain. This is the text of Hebrew Matthew (called Even Bohen) that > Professor George Howard brought to the attention of the academic > world in 1987 (see my notes and summary on the Web at: http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/JDTABOR/shemtovweb.html) > . I agree with Howard, as do Gordon and Johnson, that this version > of Matthew is not merely a translation of our Greek New Testament > manuscripts, but represents an independent and ancient source > written originally in Hebrew that was passed down in rabbinic > circles for centuries. Hebrew Matthew offers us an opportunity to > examine the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples in the original > Hebrew, rather than an approximated version based on a translation > from the Greek. > > The book is divided into two "terrains," one geographical and the > other textual. Gordon and Johnson first examine all available > evidence as to where Yeshua might have taught the prayer. They take > the reader to all possible geographical locations, from Jerusalem to > the Galilee, based on references in the New Testament and other > early Christian sources. At each place they relate their own > experiences and analysis of what appears to have been the most > likely setting for the "mountain" scene depicted in Matthew 5 and > Luke 6. They then turn to a line by line, phrase by phrase, analysis > of the prayer in Hebrew, compared with the traditional English > translations that are based on the Greek. There are surprises and > insights at every turn, and frankly, I don't want to spoil the > adventure for readers by revealing in this informal review much > about the content. Let me just tantalize a bit here and say that no > one reading this book, whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, or > secularist, will ever be able to think of, much less pray, the AVINU > (Hebrew for "Our Father") prayer in the same way again. One's > understanding of the simple power and meaning of this prayer will be > thoroughly enlightened and transformed. I am pleased to recommend > this book to any and all who will take up the challenge to expand > their horizons and experience the excitement of historical and > textual investigations. You will not be disappointed. > > James D. Tabor > Chair, Dept. of Religious Studies > UNC Charlotte > Charlotte, NC 28223 > > > > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/5f076b23/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sat Jun 6 20:51:11 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (Pat) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:51:11 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony In-Reply-To: <10ABC922-9783-4B56-993D-2C767EACD69B@earthlink.net> References: <5CFF59F8-EB03-4654-AA4D-0BF10CD00E2E@earthlink.net> <10ABC922-9783-4B56-993D-2C767EACD69B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Exactly what I had in mind! I REALLY want to get them to read RAF, but they've not been willing so far, although my daughter-in-law read your manuscript of RAF many years ago and loved it. I can't believe she has forgotten how much she was blessed by it. I'm hoping that Nehemiah's book will open their hearts - if I can get them interested in reading it. Pat From: James Tabor Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:46 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony I think this might be THE tool to pass on to Christian friends, followed up then by something like RAF. I can't imagine any Christian not being drawn in by this book. James On Jun 6, 2009, at 9:44 PM, patricia robbins wrote: Thank you, James, for this review of Nehemiah's new book. I ordered it last week and am looking forward to reading it. Also hoping that my son and daughter-in-law will become interested in it. Shavua tov, Pat ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:09:50 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony As the Sabbath is fading here in Charlotte, North Carolina I have just now finished a book in which I have been deeply immersed for a good portion of this day. The book has truly brought a Sabbath blessing to my mind and spirit on many levels and I know it won't be off my mind this evening, or for many days to come. The impressions are deep and stirring. I want to recommend this book far and wide. It is one of the most inspiring, instructive, and spiritually important works I have read in a long time. A Prayer to our Father: Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer (www.hilkiahpress.com) by Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson was just released last week (June 1, 2009). It represents a rare and uncommon collaboration between Nehemiah Gordon, a Jew devoted to the ancient Hebrew faith, and Keith Johnson, a dedicated African American Christian believer and pastor. The book is as much about the remarkable relationship of these two men, and how they embarked on a common quest for the historical and Hebraic origins of the prayer, as it is about the understanding of the prayer itself. Both men represent truly remarkable stories. Gordon, a Chicago native, who now lives in Jerusalem, is a scholar with B.A. and M.A. degrees in Biblical Studies from Hebrew University. Son of an orthodox Rabbi, he is a self-styled "Karaite," or "Scripturalist," as he was fired at an early age to forge his personal understanding of his Jewish faith based on a direct study of the Hebrew Bible. Johnson, who now lives in Charlotte, NC, has his Masters of Divinity from Trinity Evangelical is an ordained minister in the United Methodist Church. He has served as pastor of Park Avenue Church in Minneapolis, and as chaplain of the Minnesota Vikings. The book is written in an autobiographical style that pulls the reader into an engaging, unfolding story, that is every bit an adventure in learning and discovery. The most remarkable aspect of this story for me was to see how Johnson, as a devoted Christian seeking the Hebraic roots of Jesus (Yeshua), was drawn to study Hebrew with Gordon, and how Gordon in turn, without sharing Johnson's messianic views, could nonetheless wholeheartedly participate in the historical quest for the Hebraic roots of Jesus' most famous and well known teaching--the Lord's Prayer. This symbiotic relationship alone makes the book stand out as a unique and singular contribution that can be of great interest to both Christians and Jews. But what is just as remarkable are the results of the historical investigation itself. Johnson and Gordon take turns narrating their stories in a gripping first person style. Central to the book is an analysis of Prayer as it appears in the various copies of Hebrew Matthew preserved by Ibn Shaprut, a 14th century Rabbi living in Spain. This is the text of Hebrew Matthew (called Even Bohen) that Professor George Howard brought to the attention of the academic world in 1987 (see my notes and summary on the Web at: http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/JDTABOR/shemtovweb.html). I agree with Howard, as do Gordon and Johnson, that this version of Matthew is not merely a translation of our Greek New Testament manuscripts, but represents an independent and ancient source written originally in Hebrew that was passed down in rabbinic circles for centuries. Hebrew Matthew offers us an opportunity to examine the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples in the original Hebrew, rather than an approximated version based on a translation from the Greek. The book is divided into two "terrains," one geographical and the other textual. Gordon and Johnson first examine all available evidence as to where Yeshua might have taught the prayer. They take the reader to all possible geographical locations, from Jerusalem to the Galilee, based on references in the New Testament and other early Christian sources. At each place they relate their own experiences and analysis of what appears to have been the most likely setting for the "mountain" scene depicted in Matthew 5 and Luke 6. They then turn to a line by line, phrase by phrase, analysis of the prayer in Hebrew, compared with the traditional English translations that are based on the Greek. There are surprises and insights at every turn, and frankly, I don't want to spoil the adventure for readers by revealing in this informal review much about the content. Let me just tantalize a bit here and say that no one reading this book, whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, or secularist, will ever be able to think of, much less pray, the AVINU (Hebrew for "Our Father") prayer in the same way again. One's understanding of the simple power and meaning of this prayer will be thoroughly enlightened and transformed. I am pleased to recommend this book to any and all who will take up the challenge to expand their horizons and experience the excitement of historical and textual investigations. You will not be disappointed. James D. Tabor Chair, Dept. of Religious Studies UNC Charlotte Charlotte, NC 28223 _______________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/aa8e8ace/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sat Jun 6 20:53:43 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:53:43 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Same here!!!!! And Margie, I loved your note. Pat From: chcashmore at hotmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:22:29 +1000 Ditto Margie, Cornie! I pray each day for you all. You are all family. Joined by faith in HaShem. It's so wonderful and you are all so very special. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/47000bc7/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sat Jun 6 21:00:53 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:00:53 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Agreed, we MUST turn our eyes and hearts to the Land of our Fathers. We MUST look Homeward. Thank you so much for posting this terribly sobering picture of the Camps in Europe, 1933-1945, Catherine. Shavua tov, and may HaShem bless you mightily, Pat From: chcashmore at hotmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:04:24 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew I hesitated in posting this because it is so heartbreaking and emotional to read. However I think it's important simply because of the warnings we are all seeing in the news with Obama and Europe which lead me to believe that the articles that Hanoch has posted about returning to Israel are the beginning of our call to get out and return to HaShem. Just thoughts, but things I ponder on... AS-EU:090604:(05-JUN-09):Extent of Nazi Camps Far Greater Than Realized Decade-Long Study by Holocaust Museum Scholars Could Alter Public Understanding By Monica Hesse Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, June 4, 2009 A little more than a decade ago, researchers at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum decided to create an encyclopedia of concentration camps. They assumed the finished work would be massive, featuring a staggering 5,000 to 7,000 camps and ghettos. They underestimated by 15,000. Their ultimate count of more than 20,000 camps -- which they reached after a year of research -- is far more than most scholars had known existed and might reshape public understanding of the scope of the Holocaust itself. "What's going to happen is that the mental universe of how scholars operate is going to change," said Steven Katz, director of Boston University's Elie Wiesel Center for Judaic Studies. "Instead of thinking of main death camps, people are going to understand that this was a continent-wide phenomenon." The Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos: 1933-1945 "is the first major reference work for Holocaust studies since . . . the fall of the U.S.S.R." and the opening of many European archives, says Paul Shapiro, director of the museum's Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies. As a result, more information was available to researchers than had ever been before. Scholars chased footnotes in old books and used Internet mailing lists to find historians who might possess tiny pieces of the puzzle. Volume 1 is scheduled for release June 12. Most of the sites included in the encyclopedia were known, says Geoff Megargee, the encyclopedia project director. "But they were known to one or two people. . . . Sometimes there would be just one person who had done research on one prison." The first volume focuses on SS-run camps and contains more than 1,100 entries written by some 230 contributors. The Holocaust's horror always has been its precision and vastness: how many people died, how many people were complicit, how many countries fell to the Nazi regime. The enormous number of sites catalogued in the museum's encyclopedia reveals that for every commonly known camp -- Auschwitz and Dachau, Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen -- there are literally dozens more that the average reader has likely never heard of. The book is organized as a traditional encyclopedia; each camp or ghetto receives its own alphabetic entry, some with photographs or maps. Few people might realize, Megargee says, that each of the 23 main camps had sub-camps -- nearly 900 sub-camps, each placed into categories with chillingly euphemistic names. There were "care facilities for foreign children," where pregnant prisoners would be sent for forced abortions. There were Germanization camps, where foreign youth with desirable racial features would be indoctrinated. There were youth protection camps for the rebellious German teens who'd been caught listening to jazz. In his decade of working on the project, Megargee says that he never stopped learning of new atrocities or personal stories. "There was a woman who was a professional singer in the barracks" in a sub-camp of Flossenburg, he recalls, "who sang 'Ave Maria' for [her fellow prisoners] one Christmas. She moved the barracks to tears, then a guard overheard her and came and knocked her teeth out." Her story is recounted in the entry on the Wilischthal sub-camp. The book reveals "a complex ecology of coordinated devastation," says Henry Knight, director of Keene State College's Cohen Center for Holocaust Studies in New Hampshire. He has previewed the book, and sees it as particularly useful for college students or serious Holocaust researchers, but adds that "anyone looking through this volume is going to be astounded at how vast the camp system was. . . . It's simply not possible to think of these activities as an aberration when you see all of the information." Shapiro says that the sheer number of camps may end one of the lingering protestations surrounding the Holocaust -- that ordinary people knew nothing of the killing underway in their locales. "In most towns, there was some sort of prison, or holding area or place where people were victimized," Shapiro says. "Think about what this means. For anyone who thinks this took place out of sight of the average person, this shatters that mythology. There was one Auschwitz. There was one Treblinka. But there were 20,000 other camps spread through the rest of Europe." Says Shapiro: "What we are seeing in this project is that all of Europe was a camp." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/bf5bab1e/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 21:38:09 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:38:09 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Obama's speech - from the Spectator in the UK Message-ID: <855590370906061938gd95c3fdv49432a818cd9099@mail.gmail.com> It was a very, very bad speech for anyone who believes in the G-d of Avraham, Yitzchak & Yaakov.... * Hanoch* ** *Obama in Cairo *Melanie Phillips Thursday, 4th June 2009 First, the good bits in Obama?s speech in Cairo. He told the Palestinians unequivocally that violence was wrong. He said that there was an unbreakable bond between America and Israel. He told the Arab states firmly: The Arab-Israeli conflict should no longer be used to distract the people of Arab nations from other problems. Instead, it must be a cause for action to help the Palestinian people develop the institutions that will sustain their state; to recognize Israel?s legitimacy; and to choose progress over a self-defeating focus on the past. He condemned the persecution of non-Muslims in the Islamic world and urged equal rights for Muslim women. He referred to Iran?s role since 1979 in acts of hostage-taking and violence against U.S. troops and civilians. Now the bad bits ? and they were really bad. He revealed gross ignorance of the Jews? unique claim to the land of Israel. He said that America?s unbreakable bond with Israel was based upon the recognition that the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history that cannot be denied. Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust... The Jews? aspiration for their homeland does not derive from the Holocaust, nor their overall tragic history. It derives from Judaism itself, which is composed of the inseparable elements of the religion, the people and the land. Their unique claim upon the land rests upon the fact that the Jews are the only people for whom Israel was ever their nation, which it was for hundreds of years ? centuries before the Arabs and Muslims came on the scene. As for antisemitism, he made no mention of the alliance between the Palestinians and the Nazis during the 1930s, and the fact that Nazi-style Jew-hatred continues to pour out of the Arab and Muslim world to this day. Worse, Obama appeared to dr aw a subliminal equivalence between the Holocaust extermination camps and the Palestinian 'refugee' camps: Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed - more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, ignorant, and hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction - or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews - is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve. On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people - Muslims and Christians - have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than 60 years they have endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. And with this awful and revealing linkage, he duly segued seamlessly into the distorted Arab and Muslim narrative of Israel's history. It is not undeniable that the Palestinians 'have suffered in pursuit of a homeland' because it is untrue. The Palestinians have been offered a homeland repeatedly ? in 1936, 1947, 2000 and last year. They have repeatedly turned it down. The Arabs could have created it between 1948 and 1967,=2 0when the West Bank and Gaza were occupied by Jordan and Egypt. They chose not to do so. They could have created it after 1967, when Israel offered the land to them in return for peace with Israel. They refused the offer. The Palestinians have suffered because they have tried for six decades to destroy the Jews? homeland. For more than sixty years they have endured the pain of dislocation. The ?pain of dislocation? was caused by the fact that six decades ago they went to war against the newly recreated Israel to destroy it, and were subsequently deliberately kept in ?refugee? camps by the Arab world. What other aggressors in the world are described as suffering ?the pain of dislocation? caused by their own aggression -- which has continued for sixty years without remission and shows no sign of ending? Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. There is one reason for that and one reason alone ? the Palestinians have ensured that Israel has never lived in peace or security, because they have continued to attack it and murder its citizens. And Gaza? Doesn?t Obama realise the Israelis no longer occupy Gaza? It is run by Hamas, which shows its commitment to the peace and security of its inhabitants by t hrowing them off the tops of tall buildings. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. And what about the intolerable situation of Israel, forced to live in a state of siege for sixty years because of the unending aggression of the Palestinians and the wider Arab and Muslim world? The Palestinians could have lived in peace and prosperity alongside Israel at any time since 1948. If they were to end their attempt to destroy Israel and accept instead the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state -- that crucial qualification Obama omitted to mention -- they could do so tomorrow. The only reason their position is intolerable is because they themselves have made it so. What other aggressors in the world have their situation described as ?intolerable?? Palestinians must abandon violence. Good. But then: Resistance through violence and killing is wrong and does not succeed. ?Resistance?? 'Resistance' is a term of moral approval. ?Resistance? describes a fight against injustice. But the Palestinians have been engaged in an attempt to wipe out Israel. Obama sees this as 'resistance' ? even though he says violence is wrong. And then this: For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as sl aves and the humiliation of segregation. But it was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding. This same story can be told by people from South Africa to South Asia; from Eastern Europe to Indonesia. So Obama has equated genocidal terrorism by the Palestinians with the civil rights movement in America and the true resistance against apartheid in South Africa. Thus the moral bankruptcy of the moral relativist. Next, he repeated that the settlements (all of them? just new ones?) undermined peace and so had to stop. But they don?t undermine peace. It is Arab rejectionism that prevents peace in the Middle East, and the settlements are a palpable excuse. Yet Obama delivered no ultimatum of any kind to Iran, the real threat to peace in the region and the world; indeed, he repeated that Iran should have the right to access peaceful nuclear power if it complies with its responsibilities under the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, an alarming indication that he might view as acceptable a formulation which might enable Iran to continue to make nuclear weapons under some kind of verbal and political camouflage. For his egregious sanitising of Islam and its history, and his absurd claims about its contribution to western civilisation, read Robert Spencer here. But in this regard, one of Obama?s references in particular made me catch my breath. It was this: The Holy Koran teaches that whoever kills an innocent, it is as if he has killed all mankind; and whoever saves a person, it is as if he has saved all mankind. This is boilerplate misrepresentation by Islamists and their apologists. The fact is that it is Judaism which teaches this as a cardinal precept. The Talmud states: Whoever destroys a single soul, he is guilty as though he had destroyed a complete world; and whoever preserves a single soul, it is as though he had preserved a whole world. The Koran appropriated this precept ? but altered it to mean something very different. Thus (verses 5:32-5:35): That was why we laid it down for the Israelites that whoever killed a human being, except as punishment for murder or other villainy in the land, shall be regarded as having killed all mankind; and that whoever saved a human life shall be regarded as having saved all mankind. Our apostles brought them veritable proofs: yet many among them, even after that, did prodigious evil in the land. Those that make war against God and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be slain or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land. (My emphasis) In other words, this turns a Talmudic precept affirming the value of preserving human life into a prescription for violence and murder against Jews and ?unbelievers?. Yet Obama passed it off as evidence of the pacific nature of Islam. So in conclusion, yes, there was some positive stuff in this speech ? but it was outweighed by the United States President's shocking historical misrepresentations, gross ignorance, disgusting moral equivalence between aggressors and their victims, and disturbing sanitising of Islamist supremacism. In short, deeply troubling. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/eaff0467/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sat Jun 6 22:01:51 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 22:01:51 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A80E799594641CD8FC13A9EC956B573@bettylaptop> Yes, a most beautiful note, Margie.thanks so much for sending it out..behind on my email again. I agree with Cornie, Catherine and Pat! We are all joined by HaShem and are so blessed to have one another as family! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:54 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom Same here!!!!! And Margie, I loved your note. Pat _____ From: chcashmore at hotmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:22:29 +1000 Ditto Margie, Cornie! I pray each day for you all. You are all family. Joined by faith in HaShem. It's so wonderful and you are all so very special. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/786fc610/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sat Jun 6 22:01:51 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 22:01:51 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, a most beautiful note, Margie.thanks so much for sending it out..behind on my email again. I agree with Cornie, Catherine and Pat! We are all joined by HaShem and are so blessed to have one another as family! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:54 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom Same here!!!!! And Margie, I loved your note. Pat _____ From: chcashmore at hotmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:22:29 +1000 Ditto Margie, Cornie! I pray each day for you all. You are all family. Joined by faith in HaShem. It's so wonderful and you are all so very special. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/a7d7134e/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sat Jun 6 22:06:05 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 22:06:05 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45012FD229D646BC913A1F90225B0CF4@bettylaptop> Thank you, Catherine! This is indeed sobering and heart rending! Love and Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:01 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew Agreed, we MUST turn our eyes and hearts to the Land of our Fathers. We MUST look Homeward. Thank you so much for posting this terribly sobering picture of the Camps in Europe, 1933-1945, Catherine. Shavua tov, and may HaShem bless you mightily, Pat _____ From: chcashmore at hotmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:04:24 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew I hesitated in posting this because it is so heartbreaking and emotional to read. However I think it's important simply because of the warnings we are all seeing in the news with Obama and Europe which lead me to believe that the articles that Hanoch has posted about returning to Israel are the beginning of our call to get out and return to HaShem. Just thoughts, but things I ponder on... AS-EU:090604:(05-JUN-09):Extent of Nazi Camps Far Greater Than Realized Decade-Long Study by Holocaust Museum Scholars Could Alter Public Understanding By Monica Hesse Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, June 4, 2009 A little more than a decade ago, researchers at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum decided to create an encyclopedia of concentration camps. They assumed the finished work would be massive, featuring a staggering 5,000 to 7,000 camps and ghettos. They underestimated by 15,000. Their ultimate count of more than 20,000 camps -- which they reached after a year of research -- is far more than most scholars had known existed and might reshape public understanding of the scope of the Holocaust itself. "What's going to happen is that the mental universe of how scholars operate is going to change," said Steven Katz, director of Boston University's Elie Wiesel Center for Judaic Studies. "Instead of thinking of main death camps, people are going to understand that this was a continent-wide phenomenon." The Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos: 1933-1945 "is the first major reference work for Holocaust studies since . . . the fall of the U.S.S.R." and the opening of many European archives, says Paul Shapiro, director of the museum's Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies. As a result, more information was available to researchers than had ever been before. Scholars chased footnotes in old books and used Internet mailing lists to find historians who might possess tiny pieces of the puzzle. Volume 1 is scheduled for release June 12. Most of the sites included in the encyclopedia were known, says Geoff Megargee, the encyclopedia project director. "But they were known to one or two people. . . . Sometimes there would be just one person who had done research on one prison." The first volume focuses on SS-run camps and contains more than 1,100 entries written by some 230 contributors. The Holocaust's horror always has been its precision and vastness: how many people died, how many people were complicit, how many countries fell to the Nazi regime. The enormous number of sites catalogued in the museum's encyclopedia reveals that for every commonly known camp -- Auschwitz and Dachau, Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen -- there are literally dozens more that the average reader has likely never heard of. The book is organized as a traditional encyclopedia; each camp or ghetto receives its own alphabetic entry, some with photographs or maps. Few people might realize, Megargee says, that each of the 23 main camps had sub-camps -- nearly 900 sub-camps, each placed into categories with chillingly euphemistic names. There were "care facilities for foreign children," where pregnant prisoners would be sent for forced abortions. There were Germanization camps, where foreign youth with desirable racial features would be indoctrinated. There were youth protection camps for the rebellious German teens who'd been caught listening to jazz. In his decade of working on the project, Megargee says that he never stopped learning of new atrocities or personal stories. "There was a woman who was a professional singer in the barracks" in a sub-camp of Flossenburg, he recalls, "who sang 'Ave Maria' for [her fellow prisoners] one Christmas. She moved the barracks to tears, then a guard overheard her and came and knocked her teeth out." Her story is recounted in the entry on the Wilischthal sub-camp. The book reveals "a complex ecology of coordinated devastation," says Henry Knight, director of Keene State College's Cohen Center for Holocaust Studies in New Hampshire. He has previewed the book, and sees it as particularly useful for college students or serious Holocaust researchers, but adds that "anyone looking through this volume is going to be astounded at how vast the camp system was. . . . It's simply not possible to think of these activities as an aberration when you see all of the information." Shapiro says that the sheer number of camps may end one of the lingering protestations surrounding the Holocaust -- that ordinary people knew nothing of the killing underway in their locales. "In most towns, there was some sort of prison, or holding area or place where people were victimized," Shapiro says. "Think about what this means. For anyone who thinks this took place out of sight of the average person, this shatters that mythology. There was one Auschwitz. There was one Treblinka. But there were 20,000 other camps spread through the rest of Europe." Says Shapiro: "What we are seeing in this project is that all of Europe was a camp." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/a50710f5/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sat Jun 6 22:27:04 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 03:27:04 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> Message-ID: <060720090327.6341.4A2B3386000D70C6000018C522230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Hey Cornie, I understand your sister's predicament, I will be praying for her. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Cornie Reimer : -------------- Marvin and all Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like you are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have kept this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, who has for years tried to understand and sympathize with my obnoxious to Christianities, views, but now that her very religious husband passed away within the last year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years of age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on her nerves. She thrived on me being there for her in her bereavement and lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very much Christian children, and children's children. I was trying to be very careful what to share with her, yet she was complaining that I had so many people to share my faith with by e-mail etc. And she had so little. Than I gave her a copy of James book on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems like that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me on the phone one day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO NOW? She can not dare to share it with any of her family. I think she has two preachers if not more as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize with her, for the loss of her husband. But even though she was now freed up from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain of a family bond under the same title!!!!! So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, please pray for her to know how to face life under her present predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe what seemed to convict her that life from here on would have to be without Jesus, on whom she had so much tried to just take all of her burdens and stress. One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the book "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite enthused about it. So she got the idea, if i would send this one back to her, she would offer it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find out what would happen. Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a tooo heavy burden, to ease it off her shoulder, just too heavy for her alone. I am afraid that might almost react like coming up as a suicide bomber!!! I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we read of in Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. But I also told her maybe it would be a great idea to share that book with her son-in-law!!! Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One way might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some of you dear ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in time eventually. I could share what you might answer me on this letter with her, and see if she would like to have an e-mail once in a while from whom she might choose. I know this is going to be very tender and touchy. She is just waiting for a Messiah to come and take us all away to higher ground. There is just too much at stake to wait much longer for some kind of relief to come for her. Her family have a lot of health problems as well. May Hashem bless you all. Cornie mhyde wrote: I don???t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ???mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial?????? they would rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America. But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don???t?????? it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what?????? someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon??????. It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going???.. but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time???.. I have no answer???. I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don???t see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I???m missing something???.. but I???m believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. I???m done venting?????? but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. Shalom, Ya???ll From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/85874ee1/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sat Jun 6 22:47:29 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 22:47:29 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony In-Reply-To: References: <5CFF59F8-EB03-4654-AA4D-0BF10CD00E2E@earthlink.net> <10ABC922-9783-4B56-993D-2C767EACD69B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2B57DA6B7D074B2ABF7E3E7F52765775@bettylaptop> Thanks for the excellent review on Gordon's new book, James. I am going to order it too. It sounds fascinating and I agree, it would be a great tool to pass on to Christian friends. The rabbi and I had an interesting conversation with a man and his son who came to our services at synagogue this morning. It was a father and son. As it turned out they were Christians, but were very interested in the Hebraic roots of their faith. The son said that he was moving to Israel to work with the homeless in Tel Aviv. I did not get the name of the organization, but he said that they had such a need for workers that they had agreed to let him enter the country on an unlimited basis. The father said that he and his wife were very interested in moving to Israel as well. Before they told us they were Christians, the rabbi came right out and asked them if they were Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus. They said, no, they were just Christians and that they had been studying the Bible a long time. They said that they had attended a Messianic service last night and that they wanted to come to a "real" Jewish service this morning. They seemed to enjoy it and we talked quite a bit about the historical Jesus and I told them that it was really my search for who Jesus really was and what he taught that had been what had started me on the path I am on today.we talked a bit more and the rabbi ended up giving them his card. They promised to come back. I told them about your two books, James, and your Dig Mt.Zion project and they were very interested, so I wrote the info down for them and they said that they would definitely check out the books. I will definitely recommend Gordon's book to them as well. It was quite interesting as it is not often that a couple of Christians just happen to come into a Jewish synagogue! Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:51 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony Exactly what I had in mind! I REALLY want to get them to read RAF, but they've not been willing so far, although my daughter-in-law read your manuscript of RAF many years ago and loved it. I can't believe she has forgotten how much she was blessed by it. I'm hoping that Nehemiah's book will open their hearts - if I can get them interested in reading it. Pat From: James Tabor Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:46 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony I think this might be THE tool to pass on to Christian friends, followed up then by something like RAF. I can't imagine any Christian not being drawn in by this book. James On Jun 6, 2009, at 9:44 PM, patricia robbins wrote: Thank you, James, for this review of Nehemiah's new book. I ordered it last week and am looking forward to reading it. Also hoping that my son and daughter-in-law will become interested in it. Shavua tov, Pat _____ From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:09:50 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony As the Sabbath is fading here in Charlotte, North Carolina I have just now finished a book in which I have been deeply immersed for a good portion of this day. The book has truly brought a Sabbath blessing to my mind and spirit on many levels and I know it won't be off my mind this evening, or for many days to come. The impressions are deep and stirring. I want to recommend this book far and wide. It is one of the most inspiring, instructive, and spiritually important works I have read in a long time. A Prayer to our Father: Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer (www.hilkiahpress.com ) by Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson was just released last week (June 1, 2009). It represents a rare and uncommon collaboration between Nehemiah Gordon, a Jew devoted to the ancient Hebrew faith, and Keith Johnson, a dedicated African American Christian believer and pastor. The book is as much about the remarkable relationship of these two men, and how they embarked on a common quest for the historical and Hebraic origins of the prayer, as it is about the understanding of the prayer itself. Both men represent truly remarkable stories. Gordon, a Chicago native, who now lives in Jerusalem, is a scholar with B.A. and M.A. degrees in Biblical Studies from Hebrew University. Son of an orthodox Rabbi, he is a self-styled "Karaite," or "Scripturalist," as he was fired at an early age to forge his personal understanding of his Jewish faith based on a direct study of the Hebrew Bible. Johnson, who now lives in Charlotte, NC, has his Masters of Divinity from Trinity Evangelical is an ordained minister in the United Methodist Church. He has served as pastor of Park Avenue Church in Minneapolis, and as chaplain of the Minnesota Vikings. The book is written in an autobiographical style that pulls the reader into an engaging, unfolding story, that is every bit an adventure in learning and discovery. The most remarkable aspect of this story for me was to see how Johnson, as a devoted Christian seeking the Hebraic roots of Jesus (Yeshua), was drawn to study Hebrew with Gordon, and how Gordon in turn, without sharing Johnson's messianic views, could nonetheless wholeheartedly participate in the historical quest for the Hebraic roots of Jesus' most famous and well known teaching--the Lord's Prayer. This symbiotic relationship alone makes the book stand out as a unique and singular contribution that can be of great interest to both Christians and Jews. But what is just as remarkable are the results of the historical investigation itself. Johnson and Gordon take turns narrating their stories in a gripping first person style. Central to the book is an analysis of Prayer as it appears in the various copies of Hebrew Matthew preserved by Ibn Shaprut, a 14th century Rabbi living in Spain. This is the text of Hebrew Matthew (called Even Bohen) that Professor George Howard brought to the attention of the academic world in 1987 (see my notes and summary on the Web at: http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/JDTABOR/shemtovweb.html). I agree with Howard, as do Gordon and Johnson, that this version of Matthew is not merely a translation of our Greek New Testament manuscripts, but represents an independent and ancient source written originally in Hebrew that was passed down in rabbinic circles for centuries. Hebrew Matthew offers us an opportunity to examine the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples in the original Hebrew, rather than an approximated version based on a translation from the Greek. The book is divided into two "terrains," one geographical and the other textual. Gordon and Johnson first examine all available evidence as to where Yeshua might have taught the prayer. They take the reader to all possible geographical locations, from Jerusalem to the Galilee, based on references in the New Testament and other early Christian sources. At each place they relate their own experiences and analysis of what appears to have been the most likely setting for the "mountain" scene depicted in Matthew 5 and Luke 6. They then turn to a line by line, phrase by phrase, analysis of the prayer in Hebrew, compared with the traditional English translations that are based on the Greek. There are surprises and insights at every turn, and frankly, I don't want to spoil the adventure for readers by revealing in this informal review much about the content. Let me just tantalize a bit here and say that no one reading this book, whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, or secularist, will ever be able to think of, much less pray, the AVINU (Hebrew for "Our Father") prayer in the same way again. One's understanding of the simple power and meaning of this prayer will be thoroughly enlightened and transformed. I am pleased to recommend this book to any and all who will take up the challenge to expand their horizons and experience the excitement of historical and textual investigations. You will not be disappointed. James D. Tabor Chair, Dept. of Religious Studies UNC Charlotte Charlotte, NC 28223 _______________________________________________ _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/5b167f65/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Sat Jun 6 23:06:26 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:06:26 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony In-Reply-To: <2B57DA6B7D074B2ABF7E3E7F52765775@bettylaptop> References: <5CFF59F8-EB03-4654-AA4D-0BF10CD00E2E@earthlink.net> <10ABC922-9783-4B56-993D-2C767EACD69B@earthlink.net> <2B57DA6B7D074B2ABF7E3E7F52765775@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <009BE5E1-25F5-46EA-A2DA-FB6909895EF7@earthlink.net> It is happening all over Betty, with scores of people, one from a city, two from a family, before our very eyes. I keep hearing from scores who have been turned around with RAF and now this book on the Lord's Prayer is truly another tool you could give to anyone. We all have friends who are Christians with whom we have discussed such things. I think we need to be more bold and offer them these books and not worry that they would be adverse to them. I have found people are surprising. Just this week two Catholics told me how their whole perspectives were changed. This is all through our Senior Producer, not any of us, but we are privileged to be a part and to watch. I should also say about the new book by Gordon and Johnson, I personally was helped by the book a great deal. It was not just that I recommend it for others. I have several whole new concepts working in my life as a result of this lovely study. James On Jun 6, 2009, at 11:47 PM, Betty K Givin wrote: > Thanks for the excellent review on Gordon?s new book, James. I am > going to order it too. It sounds fascinating and I agree, it would > be a great tool to pass on to Christian friends. The rabbi and I had > an interesting conversation with a man and his son who came to our > services at synagogue this morning. It was a father and son. As it > turned out they were Christians, but were very interested in the > Hebraic roots of their faith. The son said that he was moving to > Israel to work with the homeless in Tel Aviv. I did not get the > name of the organization, but he said that they had such a need for > workers that they had agreed to let him enter the country on an > unlimited basis. The father said that he and his wife were very > interested in moving to Israel as well. > > Before they told us they were Christians, the rabbi came right out > and asked them if they were Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus. They > said, no, they were just Christians and that they had been studying > the Bible a long time. They said that they had attended a Messianic > service last night and that they wanted to come to a ?real? Jewish > service this morning. They seemed to enjoy it and we talked quite a > bit about the historical Jesus and I told them that it was really my > search for who Jesus really was and what he taught that had been > what had started me on the path I am on today?we talked a bit more > and the rabbi ended up giving them his card. They promised to come > back. > > I told them about your two books, James, and your Dig Mt.Zion > project and they were very interested, so I wrote the info down for > them and they said that they would definitely check out the books. > I will definitely recommend Gordon?s book to them as well. > > It was quite interesting as it is not often that a couple of > Christians just happen to come into a Jewish synagogue! > > Shavua tov, > > Elisheva/Betty > > From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > ] On Behalf Of Pat > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:51 PM > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and > Personal Testimony > > Exactly what I had in mind! I REALLY want to get them to read RAF, > but they've not been willing so far, although my daughter-in-law > read your manuscript of RAF many years ago and loved it. I can't > believe she has forgotten how much she was blessed by it. I'm > hoping that Nehemiah's book will open their hearts - if I can get > them interested in reading it. > > Pat > > From: James Tabor > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:46 PM > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and > Personal Testimony > > I think this might be THE tool to pass on to Christian friends, > followed up then by something like RAF. I can't imagine any > Christian not being drawn in by this book. > > James > > > On Jun 6, 2009, at 9:44 PM, patricia robbins wrote: > > > Thank you, James, for this review of Nehemiah's new book. I ordered > it last week and am looking forward to reading it. Also hoping that > my son and daughter-in-law will become interested in it. > > Shavua tov, > > Pat > > From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:09:50 -0400 > Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal > Testimony > > As the Sabbath is fading here in Charlotte, North Carolina I have > just now finished a book in which I have been deeply immersed for a > good portion of this day. The book has truly brought a Sabbath > blessing to my mind and spirit on many levels and I know it won't be > off my mind this evening, or for many days to come. The impressions > are deep and stirring. I want to recommend this book far and wide. > It is one of the most inspiring, instructive, and spiritually > important works I have read in a long time. > > A Prayer to our Father: Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer (www.hilkiahpress.com > ) by Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson was just released last week > (June 1, 2009). It represents a rare and uncommon collaboration > between Nehemiah Gordon, a Jew devoted to the ancient Hebrew faith, > and Keith Johnson, a dedicated African American Christian believer > and pastor. The book is as much about the remarkable relationship of > these two men, and how they embarked on a common quest for the > historical and Hebraic origins of the prayer, as it is about the > understanding of the prayer itself. > > Both men represent truly remarkable stories. Gordon, a Chicago > native, who now lives in Jerusalem, is a scholar with B.A. and M.A. > degrees in Biblical Studies from Hebrew University. Son of an > orthodox Rabbi, he is a self-styled "Karaite," or "Scripturalist," > as he was fired at an early age to forge his personal understanding > of his Jewish faith based on a direct study of the Hebrew Bible. > Johnson, who now lives in Charlotte, NC, has his Masters of Divinity > from Trinity Evangelical is an ordained minister in the United > Methodist Church. He has served as pastor of Park Avenue Church in > Minneapolis, and as chaplain of the Minnesota Vikings. > > The book is written in an autobiographical style that pulls the > reader into an engaging, unfolding story, that is every bit an > adventure in learning and discovery. The most remarkable aspect of > this story for me was to see how Johnson, as a devoted Christian > seeking the Hebraic roots of Jesus (Yeshua), was drawn to study > Hebrew with Gordon, and how Gordon in turn, without sharing > Johnson's messianic views, could nonetheless wholeheartedly > participate in the historical quest for the Hebraic roots of Jesus' > most famous and well known teaching--the Lord's Prayer. This > symbiotic relationship alone makes the book stand out as a unique > and singular contribution that can be of great interest to both > Christians and Jews. > > But what is just as remarkable are the results of the historical > investigation itself. Johnson and Gordon take turns narrating their > stories in a gripping first person style. Central to the book is an > analysis of Prayer as it appears in the various copies of Hebrew > Matthew preserved by Ibn Shaprut, a 14th century Rabbi living in > Spain. This is the text of Hebrew Matthew (called Even Bohen) that > Professor George Howard brought to the attention of the academic > world in 1987 (see my notes and summary on the Web at: http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/JDTABOR/shemtovweb.html) > . I agree with Howard, as do Gordon and Johnson, that this version > of Matthew is not merely a translation of our Greek New Testament > manuscripts, but represents an independent and ancient source > written originally in Hebrew that was passed down in rabbinic > circles for centuries. Hebrew Matthew offers us an opportunity to > examine the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples in the original > Hebrew, rather than an approximated version based on a translation > from the Greek. > > The book is divided into two "terrains," one geographical and the > other textual. Gordon and Johnson first examine all available > evidence as to where Yeshua might have taught the prayer. They take > the reader to all possible geographical locations, from Jerusalem to > the Galilee, based on references in the New Testament and other > early Christian sources. At each place they relate their own > experiences and analysis of what appears to have been the most > likely setting for the "mountain" scene depicted in Matthew 5 and > Luke 6. They then turn to a line by line, phrase by phrase, analysis > of the prayer in Hebrew, compared with the traditional English > translations that are based on the Greek. There are surprises and > insights at every turn, and frankly, I don't want to spoil the > adventure for readers by revealing in this informal review much > about the content. Let me just tantalize a bit here and say that no > one reading this book, whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, or > secularist, will ever be able to think of, much less pray, the AVINU > (Hebrew for "Our Father") prayer in the same way again. One's > understanding of the simple power and meaning of this prayer will be > thoroughly enlightened and transformed. I am pleased to recommend > this book to any and all who will take up the challenge to expand > their horizons and experience the excitement of historical and > textual investigations. You will not be disappointed. > > James D. Tabor > Chair, Dept. of Religious Studies > UNC Charlotte > Charlotte, NC 28223 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/788c6bda/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sat Jun 6 23:13:35 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 04:13:35 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom In-Reply-To: <844363.87851.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <060720090413.27646.4A2B3E6F0009F94400006BFE22230680329B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Thank you Margie, While I'm late in responding, I feel the same way. Shalom my friend. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Margie Creech : -------------- Shabbat Shalom Everyone, I don't know about all of you but I am so blessed by each one of you. You are all so dear to my heart. I pray that each one of you will be blessed beyond measure. My heart is so filled with joy being a part of this group. You all have influenced my journey so much and I just had to write this and tell you all how much I love you. May the L-ord bless each one of you with a wonderful Shabbat! Margie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/b6fd35a5/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sat Jun 6 23:28:16 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 04:28:16 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony In-Reply-To: <2B57DA6B7D074B2ABF7E3E7F52765775@bettylaptop> References: <5CFF59F8-EB03-4654-AA4D-0BF10CD00E2E@earthlink.net><10ABC922-9783-4B56-993D-2C767EACD69B@earthlink.net> <2B57DA6B7D074B2ABF7E3E7F52765775@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <060720090428.9776.4A2B41DF0004BE240000263022230680329B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Elisheva, Please try to get the name of the organization that the young man is going to work with. It might be an avenue for Carin and I to pursue. BTW, did my emails about the day of prayer make it out, I have gotten zero response. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Thanks for the excellent review on Gordon?s new book, James. I am going to order it too. It sounds fascinating and I agree, it would be a great tool to pass on to Christian friends. The rabbi and I had an interesting conversation with a man and his son who came to our services at synagogue this morning. It was a father and son. As it turned out they were Christians, but were very interested in the Hebraic roots of their faith. The son said that he was moving to Israel to work with the homeless in Tel Aviv. I did not get the name of the organization, but he said that they had such a need for workers that they had agreed to let him enter the country on an unlimited basis. The father said that he and his wife were very interested in moving to Israel as well. Before they told us they were Christians, the rabbi came right out and asked them if they were Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus. They said, no, they were just Christians and that they had been studying the Bible a long time. They said that they had attended a Messianic service last night and that they wanted to come to a ?real? Jewish service this morning. They seemed to enjoy it and we talked quite a bit about the historical Jesus and I told them that it was really my search for who Jesus really was and what he taught that had been what had started me on the path I am on today?we talked a bit more and the rabbi ended up giving them his card. They promised to come back. I told them about your two books, James, and your Dig Mt.Zion project and they were very interested, so I wrote the info down for them and they said that they would definitely check out the books. I will definitely recommend Gordon?s book to them as well. It was quite interesting as it is not often that a couple of Christians just happen to come into a Jewish synagogue! Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:51 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony Exactly what I had in mind! I REALLY want to get them to read RAF, but they've not been willing so far, although my daughter-in-law read your manuscript of RAF many years ago and loved it. I can't believe she has forgotten how much she was blessed by it. I'm hoping that Nehemiah's book will open their hearts - if I can get them interested in reading it. Pat From: James Tabor Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:46 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony I think this might be THE tool to pass on to Christian friends, followed up then by something like RAF. I can't imagine any Christian not being drawn in by this book. James On Jun 6, 2009, at 9:44 PM, patricia robbins wrote: Thank you, James, for this review of Nehemiah's new book. I ordered it last week and am looking forward to reading it. Also hoping that my son and daughter-in-law will become interested in it. Shavua tov, Pat From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:09:50 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony As the Sabbath is fading here in Charlotte, North Carolina I have just now finished a book in which I have been deeply immersed for a good portion of this day. The book has truly brought a Sabbath blessing to my mind and spirit on many levels and I know it won't be off my mind this evening, or for many days to come. The impressions are deep and stirring. I want to recommend this book far and wide. It is one of the most inspiring, instructive, and spiritually important works I have read in a long time. A Prayer to our Father: Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer (www.hilkiahpress.com) by Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson was just released last week (June 1, 2009). It represents a rare and uncommon collaboration between Nehemiah Gordon, a Jew devoted to the ancient Hebrew faith, and Keith Johnson, a dedicated African American Christian believer and pastor. The book is as much about the remarkable relationship of these two men, and how they embarked on a common quest for the historical and Hebraic origins of the prayer, as it is about the understanding of the prayer itself. Both men represent truly remarkable stories. Gordon, a Chicago native, who now lives in Jerusalem, is a scholar with B.A. and M.A. degrees in Biblical Studies from Hebrew University. Son of an orthodox Rabbi, he is a self-styled "Karaite," or "Scripturalist," as he was fired at an early age to forge his personal understanding of his Jewish faith based on a direct study of the Hebrew Bible. Johnson, who now lives in Charlotte, NC, has his Masters of Divinity from Trinity Evangelical is an ordained minister in the United Methodist Church. He has served as pastor of Park Avenue Church in Minneapolis, and as chaplain of the Minnesota Vikings. The book is written in an autobiographical style that pulls the reader into an engaging, unfolding story, that is every bit an adventure in learning and discovery. The most remarkable aspect of this story for me was to see how Johnson, as a devoted Christian seeking the Hebraic roots of Jesus (Yeshua), was drawn to study Hebrew with Gordon, and how Gordon in turn, without sharing Johnson's messianic views, could nonetheless wholeheartedly participate in the historical quest for the Hebraic roots of Jesus' most famous and well known teaching--the Lord's Prayer. This symbiotic relationship alone makes the book stand out as a unique and singular contribution that can be of great interest to both Christians and Jews. But what is just as remarkable are the results of the historical investigation itself. Johnson and Gordon take turns narrating their stories in a gripping first person style. Central to the book is an analysis of Prayer as it appears in the various copies of Hebrew Matthew preserved by Ibn Shaprut, a 14th century Rabbi living in Spain. This is the text of Hebrew Matthew (called Even Bohen) that Professor George Howard brought to the attention of the academic world in 1987 (see my notes and summary on the Web at: http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/JDTABOR/shemtovweb.html). I agree with Howard, as do Gordon and Johnson, that this version of Matthew is not merely a translation of our Greek New Testament manuscripts, but represents an independent and ancient source written originally in Hebrew that was passed down in rabbinic circles for centuries. Hebrew Matthew offers us an opportunity to examine the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples in the original Hebrew, rather than an approximated version based on a translation from the Greek. The book is divided into two "terrains," one geographical and the other textual. Gordon and Johnson first examine all available evidence as to where Yeshua might have taught the prayer. They take the reader to all possible geographical locations, from Jerusalem to the Galilee, based on references in the New Testament and other early Christian sources. At each place they relate their own experiences and analysis of what appears to have been the most likely setting for the "mountain" scene depicted in Matthew 5 and Luke 6. They then turn to a line by line, phrase by phrase, analysis of the prayer in Hebrew, compared with the traditional English translations that are based on the Greek. There are surprises and insights at every turn, and frankly, I don't want to spoil the adventure for readers by revealing in this informal review much about the content. Let me just tantalize a bit here and say that no one reading this book, whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, or secularist, will ever be able to think of, much less pray, the AVINU (Hebrew for "Our Father") prayer in the same way again. One's understanding of the simple power and meaning of this prayer will be thoroughly enlightened and transformed. I am pleased to recommend this book to any and all who will take up the challenge to expand their horizons and experience the excitement of historical and textual investigations. You will not be disappointed. James D. Tabor Chair, Dept. of Religious Studies UNC Charlotte Charlotte, NC 28223 _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/122ceda6/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 7 00:02:58 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 00:02:58 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue]John A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony In-Reply-To: <060720090428.9776.4A2B41DF0004BE240000263022230680329B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <5CFF59F8-EB03-4654-AA4D-0BF10CD00E2E@earthlink.net><10ABC922-9783-4B56-993D-2C767EACD69B@earthlink.net> <2B57DA6B7D074B2ABF7E3E7F52765775@bettylaptop> <060720090428.9776.4A2B41DF0004BE240000263022230680329B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: Eliron, I will do my best. I wish I had gotten it before he left. Hopefully they will be back as they said they would or maybe the rabbi got their last names and contact information. I will see him tomorrow and check on it. I will get back with you. Yes, I do see that your email came thru today.I am still wading thru all the posts and hadn't gotten to it yet.I have over 400 in my inbox right now.probably time to do some cleaning up. I will be sending out a response. Thanks for the reminder, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:28 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony Elisheva, Please try to get the name of the organization that the young man is going to work with. It might be an avenue for Carin and I to pursue. BTW, did my emails about the day of prayer make it out, I have gotten zero response. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Thanks for the excellent review on Gordon's new book, James. I am going to order it too. It sounds fascinating and I agree, it would be a great tool to pass on to Christian friends. The rabbi and I had an interesting conversation with a man and his son who came to our services at synagogue this morning. It was a father and son. As it turned out they were Christians, but were very interested in the Hebraic roots of their faith. The son said that he was moving to Israel to work with the homeless in Tel Aviv. I did not get the name of the organization, but he said that they had such a need for workers that they had agreed to let him enter the country on an unlimited basis. The father said that he and his wife were very interested in moving to Israel as well. Before they told us they were Christians, the rabbi came right out and asked them if they were Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus. They said, no, they were just Christians and that they had been studying the Bible a long time. They said that they had attended a Messianic service last night and that they wanted to come to a "real" Jewish service this morning. They seemed to enjoy it and we talked quite a bit about the historical Jesus and I told them that it was really my search for who Jesus really was and what he taught that had been what had started me on the path I am on today.we talked a bit more and the rabbi ended up giving them his card. They promised to come back. I told them about your two books, James, and your Dig Mt.Zion project and they were very interested, so I wrote the info down for them and they said that they would definitely check out the books. I will definitely recommend Gordon's book to them as well. It was quite interesting as it is not often that a couple of Christians just happen to come into a Jewish synagogue! Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:51 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony Exactly what I had in mind! I REALLY want to get them to read RAF, but they've not been willing so far, although my daughter-in-law read your manuscript of RAF many years ago and loved it. I can't believe she has forgotten how much she was blessed by it. I'm hoping that Nehemiah's book will open their hearts - if I can get them interested in reading it. Pat From: James Tabor Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:46 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony I think this might be THE tool to pass on to Christian friends, followed up then by something like RAF. I can't imagine any Christian not being drawn in by this book. James On Jun 6, 2009, at 9:44 PM, patricia robbins wrote: Thank you, James, for this review of Nehemiah's new book. I ordered it last week and am looking forward to reading it. Also hoping that my son and daughter-in-law will become interested in it. Shavua tov, Pat _____ From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:09:50 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony As the Sabbath is fading here in Charlotte, North Carolina I have just now finished a book in which I have been deeply immersed for a good portion of this day. The book has truly brought a Sabbath blessing to my mind and spirit on many levels and I know it won't be off my mind this evening, or for many days to come. The impressions are deep and stirring. I want to recommend this book far and wide. It is one of the most inspiring, instructive, and spiritually important works I have read in a long time. A Prayer to our Father: Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer (www.hilkiahpress.com ) by Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson was just released last week (June 1, 2009). It represents a rare and uncommon collaboration between Nehemiah Gordon, a Jew devoted to the ancient Hebrew faith, and Keith Johnson, a dedicated African American Christian believer and pastor. The book is as much about the remarkable relationship of these two men, and how they embarked on a common quest for the historical and Hebraic origins of the prayer, as it is about the understanding of the prayer itself. Both men represent truly remarkable stories. Gordon, a Chicago native, who now lives in Jerusalem, is a scholar with B.A. and M.A. degrees in Biblical Studies from Hebrew University. Son of an orthodox Rabbi, he is a self-styled "Karaite," or "Scripturalist," as he was fired at an early age to forge his personal understanding of his Jewish faith based on a direct study of the Hebrew Bible. Johnson, who now lives in Charlotte, NC, has his Masters of Divinity from Trinity Evangelical is an ordained minister in the United Methodist Church. He has served as pastor of Park Avenue Church in Minneapolis, and as chaplain of the Minnesota Vikings. The book is written in an autobiographical style that pulls the reader into an engaging, unfolding story, that is every bit an adventure in learning and discovery. The most remarkable aspect of this story for me was to see how Johnson, as a devoted Christian seeking the Hebraic roots of Jesus (Yeshua), was drawn to study Hebrew with Gordon, and how Gordon in turn, without sharing Johnson's messianic views, could nonetheless wholeheartedly participate in the historical quest for the Hebraic roots of Jesus' most famous and well known teaching--the Lord's Prayer. This symbiotic relationship alone makes the book stand out as a unique and singular contribution that can be of great interest to both Christians and Jews. But what is just as remarkable are the results of the historical investigation itself. Johnson and Gordon take turns narrating their stories in a gripping first person style. Central to the book is an analysis of Prayer as it appears in the various copies of Hebrew Matthew preserved by Ibn Shaprut, a 14th century Rabbi living in Spain. This is the text of Hebrew Matthew (called Even Bohen) that Professor George Howard brought to the attention of the academic world in 1987 (see my notes and summary on the Web at: http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/JDTABOR/shemtovweb.html). I agree with Howard, as do Gordon and Johnson, that this version of Matthew is not merely a translation of our Greek New Testament manuscripts, but represents an independent and ancient source written originally in Hebrew that was passed down in rabbinic circles for centuries. Hebrew Matthew offers us an opportunity to examine the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples in the original Hebrew, rather than an approximated version based on a translation from the Greek. The book is divided into two "terrains," one geographical and the other textual. Gordon and Johnson first examine all available evidence as to where Yeshua might have taught the prayer. They take the reader to all possible geographical locations, from Jerusalem to the Galilee, based on references in the New Testament and other early Christian sources. At each place they relate their own experiences and analysis of what appears to have been the most likely setting for the "mountain" scene depicted in Matthew 5 and Luke 6. They then turn to a line by line, phrase by phrase, analysis of the prayer in Hebrew, compared with the traditional English translations that are based on the Greek. There are surprises and insights at every turn, and frankly, I don't want to spoil the adventure for readers by revealing in this informal review much about the content. Let me just tantalize a bit here and say that no one reading this book, whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, or secularist, will ever be able to think of, much less pray, the AVINU (Hebrew for "Our Father") prayer in the same way again. One's understanding of the simple power and meaning of this prayer will be thoroughly enlightened and transformed. I am pleased to recommend this book to any and all who will take up the challenge to expand their horizons and experience the excitement of historical and textual investigations. You will not be disappointed. James D. Tabor Chair, Dept. of Religious Studies UNC Charlotte Charlotte, NC 28223 _______________________________________________ _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/7a4ad4e1/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 7 00:02:58 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 00:02:58 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue]John A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony In-Reply-To: <060720090428.9776.4A2B41DF0004BE240000263022230680329B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <5CFF59F8-EB03-4654-AA4D-0BF10CD00E2E@earthlink.net><10ABC922-9783-4B56-993D-2C767EACD69B@earthlink.net> <2B57DA6B7D074B2ABF7E3E7F52765775@bettylaptop> <060720090428.9776.4A2B41DF0004BE240000263022230680329B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <0868D82771414D25AA0408E491855FEF@bettylaptop> Eliron, I will do my best. I wish I had gotten it before he left. Hopefully they will be back as they said they would or maybe the rabbi got their last names and contact information. I will see him tomorrow and check on it. I will get back with you. Yes, I do see that your email came thru today.I am still wading thru all the posts and hadn't gotten to it yet.I have over 400 in my inbox right now.probably time to do some cleaning up. I will be sending out a response. Thanks for the reminder, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:28 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony Elisheva, Please try to get the name of the organization that the young man is going to work with. It might be an avenue for Carin and I to pursue. BTW, did my emails about the day of prayer make it out, I have gotten zero response. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Thanks for the excellent review on Gordon's new book, James. I am going to order it too. It sounds fascinating and I agree, it would be a great tool to pass on to Christian friends. The rabbi and I had an interesting conversation with a man and his son who came to our services at synagogue this morning. It was a father and son. As it turned out they were Christians, but were very interested in the Hebraic roots of their faith. The son said that he was moving to Israel to work with the homeless in Tel Aviv. I did not get the name of the organization, but he said that they had such a need for workers that they had agreed to let him enter the country on an unlimited basis. The father said that he and his wife were very interested in moving to Israel as well. Before they told us they were Christians, the rabbi came right out and asked them if they were Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus. They said, no, they were just Christians and that they had been studying the Bible a long time. They said that they had attended a Messianic service last night and that they wanted to come to a "real" Jewish service this morning. They seemed to enjoy it and we talked quite a bit about the historical Jesus and I told them that it was really my search for who Jesus really was and what he taught that had been what had started me on the path I am on today.we talked a bit more and the rabbi ended up giving them his card. They promised to come back. I told them about your two books, James, and your Dig Mt.Zion project and they were very interested, so I wrote the info down for them and they said that they would definitely check out the books. I will definitely recommend Gordon's book to them as well. It was quite interesting as it is not often that a couple of Christians just happen to come into a Jewish synagogue! Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pat Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:51 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony Exactly what I had in mind! I REALLY want to get them to read RAF, but they've not been willing so far, although my daughter-in-law read your manuscript of RAF many years ago and loved it. I can't believe she has forgotten how much she was blessed by it. I'm hoping that Nehemiah's book will open their hearts - if I can get them interested in reading it. Pat From: James Tabor Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:46 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony I think this might be THE tool to pass on to Christian friends, followed up then by something like RAF. I can't imagine any Christian not being drawn in by this book. James On Jun 6, 2009, at 9:44 PM, patricia robbins wrote: Thank you, James, for this review of Nehemiah's new book. I ordered it last week and am looking forward to reading it. Also hoping that my son and daughter-in-law will become interested in it. Shavua tov, Pat _____ From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:09:50 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony As the Sabbath is fading here in Charlotte, North Carolina I have just now finished a book in which I have been deeply immersed for a good portion of this day. The book has truly brought a Sabbath blessing to my mind and spirit on many levels and I know it won't be off my mind this evening, or for many days to come. The impressions are deep and stirring. I want to recommend this book far and wide. It is one of the most inspiring, instructive, and spiritually important works I have read in a long time. A Prayer to our Father: Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer (www.hilkiahpress.com ) by Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson was just released last week (June 1, 2009). It represents a rare and uncommon collaboration between Nehemiah Gordon, a Jew devoted to the ancient Hebrew faith, and Keith Johnson, a dedicated African American Christian believer and pastor. The book is as much about the remarkable relationship of these two men, and how they embarked on a common quest for the historical and Hebraic origins of the prayer, as it is about the understanding of the prayer itself. Both men represent truly remarkable stories. Gordon, a Chicago native, who now lives in Jerusalem, is a scholar with B.A. and M.A. degrees in Biblical Studies from Hebrew University. Son of an orthodox Rabbi, he is a self-styled "Karaite," or "Scripturalist," as he was fired at an early age to forge his personal understanding of his Jewish faith based on a direct study of the Hebrew Bible. Johnson, who now lives in Charlotte, NC, has his Masters of Divinity from Trinity Evangelical is an ordained minister in the United Methodist Church. He has served as pastor of Park Avenue Church in Minneapolis, and as chaplain of the Minnesota Vikings. The book is written in an autobiographical style that pulls the reader into an engaging, unfolding story, that is every bit an adventure in learning and discovery. The most remarkable aspect of this story for me was to see how Johnson, as a devoted Christian seeking the Hebraic roots of Jesus (Yeshua), was drawn to study Hebrew with Gordon, and how Gordon in turn, without sharing Johnson's messianic views, could nonetheless wholeheartedly participate in the historical quest for the Hebraic roots of Jesus' most famous and well known teaching--the Lord's Prayer. This symbiotic relationship alone makes the book stand out as a unique and singular contribution that can be of great interest to both Christians and Jews. But what is just as remarkable are the results of the historical investigation itself. Johnson and Gordon take turns narrating their stories in a gripping first person style. Central to the book is an analysis of Prayer as it appears in the various copies of Hebrew Matthew preserved by Ibn Shaprut, a 14th century Rabbi living in Spain. This is the text of Hebrew Matthew (called Even Bohen) that Professor George Howard brought to the attention of the academic world in 1987 (see my notes and summary on the Web at: http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/JDTABOR/shemtovweb.html). I agree with Howard, as do Gordon and Johnson, that this version of Matthew is not merely a translation of our Greek New Testament manuscripts, but represents an independent and ancient source written originally in Hebrew that was passed down in rabbinic circles for centuries. Hebrew Matthew offers us an opportunity to examine the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples in the original Hebrew, rather than an approximated version based on a translation from the Greek. The book is divided into two "terrains," one geographical and the other textual. Gordon and Johnson first examine all available evidence as to where Yeshua might have taught the prayer. They take the reader to all possible geographical locations, from Jerusalem to the Galilee, based on references in the New Testament and other early Christian sources. At each place they relate their own experiences and analysis of what appears to have been the most likely setting for the "mountain" scene depicted in Matthew 5 and Luke 6. They then turn to a line by line, phrase by phrase, analysis of the prayer in Hebrew, compared with the traditional English translations that are based on the Greek. There are surprises and insights at every turn, and frankly, I don't want to spoil the adventure for readers by revealing in this informal review much about the content. Let me just tantalize a bit here and say that no one reading this book, whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, or secularist, will ever be able to think of, much less pray, the AVINU (Hebrew for "Our Father") prayer in the same way again. One's understanding of the simple power and meaning of this prayer will be thoroughly enlightened and transformed. I am pleased to recommend this book to any and all who will take up the challenge to expand their horizons and experience the excitement of historical and textual investigations. You will not be disappointed. James D. Tabor Chair, Dept. of Religious Studies UNC Charlotte Charlotte, NC 28223 _______________________________________________ _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/9dcc0b3c/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 7 00:18:58 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 00:18:58 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. In-Reply-To: <060620091554.18348.4A2A912B0007E5A8000047AC22243322829B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <060620091554.18348.4A2A912B0007E5A8000047AC22243322829B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <1C7F830DF4444C10B9D6C619A74BD6AA@bettylaptop> Eliron, count me in for next Shabbat's Day of Prayer! I think it is a great and much needed endeavor for all of us to enter in together! Got the correction.June 12-13! It is appropriate that it begin on Erev Shabbat (Fri. nite), when it is traditional in Jewish homes to bless our children at the Shabbat table. Even though my children are all married with their own children, I still "bless my children" each Shabbat evening from a distance. In fact I have a beautiful prayer that I say after candle lighting that includes my children and grandchildren and all of HaShem's children all over the world.Many prayer books have beautiful prayers for after candle lighting, but this one is especially lovely and has deep significance for me. I will have to write it down and send it out in case some of you might want to include it as part of your Shabbat prayers. Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 10:54 AM To: Dialogue Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Hey all, I spoke with Kim yesterday evening, she is having some technical problems with her computer and probably won't be back on line until tomorrow night. We wanted to move forward a little bit with the idea she had about living the Shema. She previously asked that we set aside Tammuz 17 (July 8-9) as a day prayer and teaching (for our children and others). We wanted to precede that with a day of prayer for all of us to seek guidance from HaShem on ways to reach out to our children and others with Torah truth. So I volunteered to send out this notice for her asking that we set aside Sivan 21 (June 13-14), which is next Shabbat for this day of prayer. The Parashah portion for that day is B'ha'alotkha (When You Set Up..) which is about setting up the seven lamps of the tabernacle. What say you? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/5a5a4e73/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 7 00:18:58 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 00:18:58 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. In-Reply-To: <060620091554.18348.4A2A912B0007E5A8000047AC22243322829B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <060620091554.18348.4A2A912B0007E5A8000047AC22243322829B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <826AB6596EAD4C919991F3ED507EC327@bettylaptop> Eliron, count me in for next Shabbat's Day of Prayer! I think it is a great and much needed endeavor for all of us to enter in together! Got the correction.June 12-13! It is appropriate that it begin on Erev Shabbat (Fri. nite), when it is traditional in Jewish homes to bless our children at the Shabbat table. Even though my children are all married with their own children, I still "bless my children" each Shabbat evening from a distance. In fact I have a beautiful prayer that I say after candle lighting that includes my children and grandchildren and all of HaShem's children all over the world.Many prayer books have beautiful prayers for after candle lighting, but this one is especially lovely and has deep significance for me. I will have to write it down and send it out in case some of you might want to include it as part of your Shabbat prayers. Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 10:54 AM To: Dialogue Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Hey all, I spoke with Kim yesterday evening, she is having some technical problems with her computer and probably won't be back on line until tomorrow night. We wanted to move forward a little bit with the idea she had about living the Shema. She previously asked that we set aside Tammuz 17 (July 8-9) as a day prayer and teaching (for our children and others). We wanted to precede that with a day of prayer for all of us to seek guidance from HaShem on ways to reach out to our children and others with Torah truth. So I volunteered to send out this notice for her asking that we set aside Sivan 21 (June 13-14), which is next Shabbat for this day of prayer. The Parashah portion for that day is B'ha'alotkha (When You Set Up..) which is about setting up the seven lamps of the tabernacle. What say you? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/e4382276/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Sun Jun 7 00:21:08 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:21:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom Message-ID: <768836.86724.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Margie and all chaverim I say ditto. ? Susan --- On Sat, 6/6/09, carlson_john at bellsouth.net wrote: From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 11:13 PM Thank you Margie, ? While I'm late in responding, I feel the same way. ? Shalom my friend. ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ? -------------- Original message from Margie Creech : -------------- Shabbat Shalom Everyone, ? I don't know about all of you but I am so blessed by each one of you.? You are all so dear to my heart.? I pray that each one of you will be blessed beyond measure.? My heart is so filled with joy being a part of this group.? You all have influenced my journey so much and I just had to write this and tell you all how much I love you.? May the L-ord bless each one of you with a wonderful Shabbat! ? Margie -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/cf9c0bcb/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 7 00:24:25 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 00:24:25 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Duplicate emails Message-ID: Friends, I do not know what is going on with my "duplicate" emails. I will have to call Verizon on Monday to see what's up because I keep getting this weird message that my message will not be sent. I close the message and then find that it sends it twice. Anybody else ever have this problem? Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/a1d72488/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 7 00:25:28 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 05:25:28 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. In-Reply-To: <1C7F830DF4444C10B9D6C619A74BD6AA@bettylaptop> References: <060620091554.18348.4A2A912B0007E5A8000047AC22243322829B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <1C7F830DF4444C10B9D6C619A74BD6AA@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <060720090525.13892.4A2B4F47000979080000364422230706129B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Thank you Elisheva, Please do send that prayer, my kids needs all they can get right now. Anybody else care to join in? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Eliron, count me in for next Shabbat?s Day of Prayer! I think it is a great and much needed endeavor for all of us to enter in together! Got the correction?June 12-13! It is appropriate that it begin on Erev Shabbat (Fri. nite), when it is traditional in Jewish homes to bless our children at the Shabbat table. Even though my children are all married with their own children, I still ?bless my children? each Shabbat evening from a distance. In fact I have a beautiful prayer that I say after candle lighting that includes my children and grandchildren and all of HaShem?s children all over the world?Many prayer books have beautiful prayers for after candle lighting, but this one is especially lovely and has deep significance for me. I will have to write it down and send it out in case some of you might want to include it as part of your Shabbat prayers. Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 10:54 AM To: Dialogue Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Hey all, I spoke with Kim yesterday evening, she is having some technical problems with her computer and probably won't be back on line until tomorrow night. We wanted to move forward a little bit with the idea she had about living the Shema. She previously asked that we set aside Tammuz 17 (July 8-9) as a day prayer and teaching (for our children and others). We wanted to precede that with a day of prayer for all of us to seek guidance from HaShem on ways to reach out to our children and others with Torah truth. So I volunteered to send out this notice for her asking that we set aside Sivan 21 (June 13-14), which is next Shabbat for this day of prayer. The Parashah portion for that day is B'ha'alotkha (When You Set Up..) which is about setting up the seven lamps of the tabernacle. What say you? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/3c828aa0/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 7 00:27:04 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 05:27:04 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Duplicate emails In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <060720090527.15531.4A2B4FA80000DC7500003CAB22230706129B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> No Elisheva, it is only happening with the Dialogue list, not the UIWU list. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Friends, I do not know what is going on with my ?duplicate? emails. I will have to call Verizon on Monday to see what?s up because I keep getting this weird message that my message will not be sent. I close the message and then find that it sends it twice. Anybody else ever have this problem? Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/1572317a/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Sun Jun 7 00:31:27 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Message-ID: <464316.52539.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Betty, ?I would love it if you could post your blessings for your children as I am in much the same position as you.? My kids are all grown and I now have 7 grandchildren which I would love to pray for in a special way on Shabbat.? I will be out of town?next Shabbat but will pray as time permits which suprisingly HaShem seems to work out. ? Thank You,? Susan --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:18 AM Eliron, count me in for next Shabbat?s Day of Prayer!? I think it is a great and much needed endeavor for all of us to enter in together!? Got the correction?June 12-13!? It is appropriate that it begin on Erev Shabbat (Fri. nite), when it is traditional in Jewish homes to bless our children at the Shabbat table.? Even though my children are all married with their own children, I still ?bless my children? each Shabbat evening from a distance.? ?In fact I have a beautiful prayer that I say after candle lighting that includes my children and grandchildren and all of HaShem?s children all over the world?Many prayer books have beautiful prayers for after candle lighting, but this one is especially lovely and has deep significance for me. I will have to write it down and send it out in case some of you might want to include it as part of your Shabbat prayers. ? Shavua tov, ? Elisheva/Betty ? From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 10:54 AM To: Dialogue Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. ? Hey all, ? I spoke with Kim yesterday evening, she is having some technical problems with her computer and probably won't be back on line until tomorrow night.? We wanted to move forward a little bit with the idea she had about living the Shema.? She previously asked that we set aside Tammuz 17 (July 8-9) as a day prayer and teaching (for our children and others). ? We wanted to precede that with a day of prayer for all of us to seek guidance from HaShem on ways to reach out to our children and others with Torah truth.? So I volunteered to send out this notice for her asking that we set aside Sivan 21 (June 13-14), which is next Shabbat for this day of prayer.? The Parashah portion for that day is B'ha'alotkha (When You Set Up..) which is about setting up the seven lamps of the tabernacle. ? What say you? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090606/a7b903c1/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 7 00:43:41 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 00:43:41 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> Message-ID: Dear Cornie, I will pray too, as I have been where your sister Tina is in the sense that I struggled so hard in the beginning of my search in what to do with Jesus. Isaiah 43:11 is one of the strongest passages that I can think of for Tina to read and imprint in her mind as it is so powerful. I remember calling my brother so distraught that I just didn't know what to do with myself. He told me to go into my closet, kneel down and pray to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.that is what I did.and here I am now. I am not saying that it was an overnight cure because it wasn't.it was a process.almost a grieving process.because "Jesus" as I knew him had been with me since a child and as I was finding out more and more truth, I realized that he was not who I thought he was, and it was very difficult to give up all of those pre-conceived notions, but for me there was no choice. I would say to Tina, focus on Isaiah 43:11, and encourage her to re-discover who her real Savior is, and to know that He is the ONE and ONLY G-D, that we should love with all of our hearts, soul and might.as attested in the Shema, which Jesus quoted as the greatest commandment. This same G-D was the G-D that Jesus prayed and had his allegiance to. You might also check out the new book by Gordon and Johnson that James has recommended."A Prayer to our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony. " It sounds like it might just give Tina the comfort she needs right now. Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:35 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] new prayer request Cornie, Will certainly be praying for your sister, Tina, as well as her son-in-law, that they will be set free to cleave to our One and Only Savior, the G-d of Avraham, Yitzchak and Ya'acov. It's wonderful and encouraging to know that you are reaching out to these family members, and that they are hearing. I will remember to pray Is. 43:11 especially for Tina as you have said that she will learn to cast all her burdens on Him, and Him alone. I, even I, am the L-RD, and beside Me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:11 Shavua tov, Dear Friend, Avigail/Pat _____ Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:18:46 -0500 From: cormary at mts.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request Marvin and all Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like you are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have kept this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, who has for years tried to understand and sympathize with my obnoxious to Christianities, views, but now that her very religious husband passed away within the last year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years of age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on her nerves. She thrived on me being there for her in her bereavement and lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very much Christian children, and children's children. I was trying to be very careful what to share with her, yet she was complaining that I had so many people to share my faith with by e-mail etc. And she had so little. Than I gave her a copy of James book on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems like that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me on the phone one day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO NOW? She can not dare to share it with any of her family. I think she has two preachers if not more as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize with her, for the loss of her husband. But even though she was now freed up from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain of a family bond under the same title!!!!! So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, please pray for her to know how to face life under her present predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe what seemed to convict her that life from here on would have to be without Jesus, on whom she had so much tried to just take all of her burdens and stress. One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the book "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite enthused about it. So she got the idea, if i would send this one back to her, she would offer it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find out what would happen. Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a tooo heavy burden, to ease it off her shoulder, just too heavy for her alone. I am afraid that might almost react like coming up as a suicide bomber!!! I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we read of in Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. But I also told her maybe it would be a great idea to share that book with her son-in-law!!! Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One way might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some of you dear ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in time eventually. I could share what you might answer me on this letter with her, and see if she would like to have an e-mail once in a while from whom she might choose. I know this is going to be very tender and touchy. She is just waiting for a Messiah to come and take us all away to higher ground. There is just too much at stake to wait much longer for some kind of relief to come for her. Her family have a lot of health problems as well. May Hashem bless you all. Cornie mhyde wrote: I don't think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda -mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial.. they would rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America. But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don't.. it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what.. someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon... It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going... but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time... I have no answer.. I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don't see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I'm missing something... but I'm believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. I'm done venting.. but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. Shalom, Ya'll _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, < carlson_john at bellsouth.net> wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/838fca3a/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 7 00:50:47 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 00:50:47 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. In-Reply-To: <464316.52539.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <464316.52539.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5623A0B5A7064E4AB0024F3D6AAF61EF@bettylaptop> Susan, and John, I would be happy to do that.but it will have to be another day.I am falling asleep here at my computer. Laila tov (good night), Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of susan strickland Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:31 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Betty, I would love it if you could post your blessings for your children as I am in much the same position as you. My kids are all grown and I now have 7 grandchildren which I would love to pray for in a special way on Shabbat. I will be out of town next Shabbat but will pray as time permits which suprisingly HaShem seems to work out. Thank You, Susan --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:18 AM Eliron, count me in for next Shabbat's Day of Prayer! I think it is a great and much needed endeavor for all of us to enter in together! Got the correction.June 12-13! It is appropriate that it begin on Erev Shabbat (Fri. nite), when it is traditional in Jewish homes to bless our children at the Shabbat table. Even though my children are all married with their own children, I still "bless my children" each Shabbat evening from a distance. In fact I have a beautiful prayer that I say after candle lighting that includes my children and grandchildren and all of HaShem's children all over the world.Many prayer books have beautiful prayers for after candle lighting, but this one is especially lovely and has deep significance for me. I will have to write it down and send it out in case some of you might want to include it as part of your Shabbat prayers. Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 10:54 AM To: Dialogue Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Hey all, I spoke with Kim yesterday evening, she is having some technical problems with her computer and probably won't be back on line until tomorrow night. We wanted to move forward a little bit with the idea she had about living the Shema. She previously asked that we set aside Tammuz 17 (July 8-9) as a day prayer and teaching (for our children and others). We wanted to precede that with a day of prayer for all of us to seek guidance from HaShem on ways to reach out to our children and others with Torah truth. So I volunteered to send out this notice for her asking that we set aside Sivan 21 (June 13-14), which is next Shabbat for this day of prayer. The Parashah portion for that day is B'ha'alotkha (When You Set Up..) which is about setting up the seven lamps of the tabernacle. What say you? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/fc4aae15/attachment.html From im50332 at bigpond.net.au Sun Jun 7 02:03:00 2009 From: im50332 at bigpond.net.au (Pamela Barbera) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 17:03:00 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony References: <5CFF59F8-EB03-4654-AA4D-0BF10CD00E2E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Dear James, I could not get the link to The article George Howard brought to the attention of the accademic world, to work! Is this manuscript "Even Bowen" in Hebrew available to the general public to purchase? Would love to buy a copy either in English or in Hebrew. Toda, Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: James Tabor To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:09 AM Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony As the Sabbath is fading here in Charlotte, North Carolina I have just now finished a book in which I have been deeply immersed for a good portion of this day. The book has truly brought a Sabbath blessing to my mind and spirit on many levels and I know it won't be off my mind this evening, or for many days to come. The impressions are deep and stirring. I want to recommend this book far and wide. It is one of the most inspiring, instructive, and spiritually important works I have read in a long time. A Prayer to our Father: Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer (www.hilkiahpress.com) by Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson was just released last week (June 1, 2009). It represents a rare and uncommon collaboration between Nehemiah Gordon, a Jew devoted to the ancient Hebrew faith, and Keith Johnson, a dedicated African American Christian believer and pastor. The book is as much about the remarkable relationship of these two men, and how they embarked on a common quest for the historical and Hebraic origins of the prayer, as it is about the understanding of the prayer itself. Both men represent truly remarkable stories. Gordon, a Chicago native, who now lives in Jerusalem, is a scholar with B.A. and M.A. degrees in Biblical Studies from Hebrew University. Son of an orthodox Rabbi, he is a self-styled "Karaite," or "Scripturalist," as he was fired at an early age to forge his personal understanding of his Jewish faith based on a direct study of the Hebrew Bible. Johnson, who now lives in Charlotte, NC, has his Masters of Divinity from Trinity Evangelical is an ordained minister in the United Methodist Church. He has served as pastor of Park Avenue Church in Minneapolis, and as chaplain of the Minnesota Vikings. The book is written in an autobiographical style that pulls the reader into an engaging, unfolding story, that is every bit an adventure in learning and discovery. The most remarkable aspect of this story for me was to see how Johnson, as a devoted Christian seeking the Hebraic roots of Jesus (Yeshua), was drawn to study Hebrew with Gordon, and how Gordon in turn, without sharing Johnson's messianic views, could nonetheless wholeheartedly participate in the historical quest for the Hebraic roots of Jesus' most famous and well known teaching--the Lord's Prayer. This symbiotic relationship alone makes the book stand out as a unique and singular contribution that can be of great interest to both Christians and Jews. But what is just as remarkable are the results of the historical investigation itself. Johnson and Gordon take turns narrating their stories in a gripping first person style. Central to the book is an analysis of Prayer as it appears in the various copies of Hebrew Matthew preserved by Ibn Shaprut, a 14th century Rabbi living in Spain. This is the text of Hebrew Matthew (called Even Bohen) that Professor George Howard brought to the attention of the academic world in 1987 (see my notes and summary on the Web at: http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/JDTABOR/shemtovweb.html). I agree with Howard, as do Gordon and Johnson, that this version of Matthew is not merely a translation of our Greek New Testament manuscripts, but represents an independent and ancient source written originally in Hebrew that was passed down in rabbinic circles for centuries. Hebrew Matthew offers us an opportunity to examine the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples in the original Hebrew, rather than an approximated version based on a translation from the Greek. The book is divided into two "terrains," one geographical and the other textual. Gordon and Johnson first examine all available evidence as to where Yeshua might have taught the prayer. They take the reader to all possible geographical locations, from Jerusalem to the Galilee, based on references in the New Testament and other early Christian sources. At each place they relate their own experiences and analysis of what appears to have been the most likely setting for the "mountain" scene depicted in Matthew 5 and Luke 6. They then turn to a line by line, phrase by phrase, analysis of the prayer in Hebrew, compared with the traditional English translations that are based on the Greek. There are surprises and insights at every turn, and frankly, I don't want to spoil the adventure for readers by revealing in this informal review much about the content. Let me just tantalize a bit here and say that no one reading this book, whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, or secularist, will ever be able to think of, much less pray, the AVINU (Hebrew for "Our Father") prayer in the same way again. One's understanding of the simple power and meaning of this prayer will be thoroughly enlightened and transformed. I am pleased to recommend this book to any and all who will take up the challenge to expand their horizons and experience the excitement of historical and textual investigations. You will not be disappointed. James D. Tabor Chair, Dept. of Religious Studies UNC Charlotte Charlotte, NC 28223 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/99ff4389/attachment.html From im50332 at bigpond.net.au Sun Jun 7 02:08:41 2009 From: im50332 at bigpond.net.au (Pamela Barbera) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 17:08:41 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. References: <464316.52539.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I will also pray as I am able on that day Betty, Shalom, Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: susan strickland To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 3:31 PM Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Betty, I would love it if you could post your blessings for your children as I am in much the same position as you. My kids are all grown and I now have 7 grandchildren which I would love to pray for in a special way on Shabbat. I will be out of town next Shabbat but will pray as time permits which suprisingly HaShem seems to work out. Thank You, Susan --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:18 AM Eliron, count me in for next Shabbat?s Day of Prayer! I think it is a great and much needed endeavor for all of us to enter in together! Got the correction?June 12-13! It is appropriate that it begin on Erev Shabbat (Fri. nite), when it is traditional in Jewish homes to bless our children at the Shabbat table. Even though my children are all married with their own children, I still ?bless my children? each Shabbat evening from a distance. In fact I have a beautiful prayer that I say after candle lighting that includes my children and grandchildren and all of HaShem?s children all over the world?Many prayer books have beautiful prayers for after candle lighting, but this one is especially lovely and has deep significance for me. I will have to write it down and send it out in case some of you might want to include it as part of your Shabbat prayers. Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 10:54 AM To: Dialogue Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Hey all, I spoke with Kim yesterday evening, she is having some technical problems with her computer and probably won't be back on line until tomorrow night. We wanted to move forward a little bit with the idea she had about living the Shema. She previously asked that we set aside Tammuz 17 (July 8-9) as a day prayer and teaching (for our children and others). We wanted to precede that with a day of prayer for all of us to seek guidance from HaShem on ways to reach out to our children and others with Torah truth. So I volunteered to send out this notice for her asking that we set aside Sivan 21 (June 13-14), which is next Shabbat for this day of prayer. The Parashah portion for that day is B'ha'alotkha (When You Set Up..) which is about setting up the seven lamps of the tabernacle. What say you? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/96bc2661/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Sun Jun 7 05:23:39 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 06:23:39 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony In-Reply-To: References: <5CFF59F8-EB03-4654-AA4D-0BF10CD00E2E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <41B24E13-00D8-4173-A55B-BDD9DC0F422E@earthlink.net> The link was picking up the parenthesis at the end of the reference, try this: http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/JDTABOR/shemtovweb.html Howard's book is in two editions, you would want the lastest. I am not sure if it is out of print but if so you can probably find a used copy. Best, James On Jun 7, 2009, at 3:03 AM, Pamela Barbera wrote: > Dear James, I could not get the link to The article George Howard > brought to the attention of the accademic world, to work! Is this > manuscript "Even Bowen" in Hebrew available to the general public to > purchase? Would love to buy a copy either in English or in Hebrew. > Toda, Pamela > ----- Original Message ----- > From: James Tabor > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:09 AM > Subject: [Dialogue] A Prayer to Our Father: A Review and Personal > Testimony > > As the Sabbath is fading here in Charlotte, North Carolina I have > just now finished a book in which I have been deeply immersed for a > good portion of this day. The book has truly brought a Sabbath > blessing to my mind and spirit on many levels and I know it won't be > off my mind this evening, or for many days to come. The impressions > are deep and stirring. I want to recommend this book far and wide. > It is one of the most inspiring, instructive, and spiritually > important works I have read in a long time. > > A Prayer to our Father: Hebrew Origins of the Lord's Prayer (www.hilkiahpress.com > ) by Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson was just released last week > (June 1, 2009). It represents a rare and uncommon collaboration > between Nehemiah Gordon, a Jew devoted to the ancient Hebrew faith, > and Keith Johnson, a dedicated African American Christian believer > and pastor. The book is as much about the remarkable relationship of > these two men, and how they embarked on a common quest for the > historical and Hebraic origins of the prayer, as it is about the > understanding of the prayer itself. > > Both men represent truly remarkable stories. Gordon, a Chicago > native, who now lives in Jerusalem, is a scholar with B.A. and M.A. > degrees in Biblical Studies from Hebrew University. Son of an > orthodox Rabbi, he is a self-styled "Karaite," or "Scripturalist," > as he was fired at an early age to forge his personal understanding > of his Jewish faith based on a direct study of the Hebrew Bible. > Johnson, who now lives in Charlotte, NC, has his Masters of Divinity > from Trinity Evangelical is an ordained minister in the United > Methodist Church. He has served as pastor of Park Avenue Church in > Minneapolis, and as chaplain of the Minnesota Vikings. > > The book is written in an autobiographical style that pulls the > reader into an engaging, unfolding story, that is every bit an > adventure in learning and discovery. The most remarkable aspect of > this story for me was to see how Johnson, as a devoted Christian > seeking the Hebraic roots of Jesus (Yeshua), was drawn to study > Hebrew with Gordon, and how Gordon in turn, without sharing > Johnson's messianic views, could nonetheless wholeheartedly > participate in the historical quest for the Hebraic roots of Jesus' > most famous and well known teaching--the Lord's Prayer. This > symbiotic relationship alone makes the book stand out as a unique > and singular contribution that can be of great interest to both > Christians and Jews. > > But what is just as remarkable are the results of the historical > investigation itself. Johnson and Gordon take turns narrating their > stories in a gripping first person style. Central to the book is an > analysis of Prayer as it appears in the various copies of Hebrew > Matthew preserved by Ibn Shaprut, a 14th century Rabbi living in > Spain. This is the text of Hebrew Matthew (called Even Bohen) that > Professor George Howard brought to the attention of the academic > world in 1987 (see my notes and summary on the Web at: http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/JDTABOR/shemtovweb.html) > . I agree with Howard, as do Gordon and Johnson, that this version > of Matthew is not merely a translation of our Greek New Testament > manuscripts, but represents an independent and ancient source > written originally in Hebrew that was passed down in rabbinic > circles for centuries. Hebrew Matthew offers us an opportunity to > examine the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples in the original > Hebrew, rather than an approximated version based on a translation > from the Greek. > > The book is divided into two "terrains," one geographical and the > other textual. Gordon and Johnson first examine all available > evidence as to where Yeshua might have taught the prayer. They take > the reader to all possible geographical locations, from Jerusalem to > the Galilee, based on references in the New Testament and other > early Christian sources. At each place they relate their own > experiences and analysis of what appears to have been the most > likely setting for the "mountain" scene depicted in Matthew 5 and > Luke 6. They then turn to a line by line, phrase by phrase, analysis > of the prayer in Hebrew, compared with the traditional English > translations that are based on the Greek. There are surprises and > insights at every turn, and frankly, I don't want to spoil the > adventure for readers by revealing in this informal review much > about the content. Let me just tantalize a bit here and say that no > one reading this book, whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, or > secularist, will ever be able to think of, much less pray, the AVINU > (Hebrew for "Our Father") prayer in the same way again. One's > understanding of the simple power and meaning of this prayer will be > thoroughly enlightened and transformed. I am pleased to recommend > this book to any and all who will take up the challenge to expand > their horizons and experience the excitement of historical and > textual investigations. You will not be disappointed. > > James D. Tabor > Chair, Dept. of Religious Studies > UNC Charlotte > Charlotte, NC 28223 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/09659ad8/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Sun Jun 7 05:26:39 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 06:26:39 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24 In-Reply-To: <451790.54615.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <451790.54615.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3BAF7DB0-77C7-4732-ABE2-7D642E00C03B@earthlink.net> I don't think the phrase in Exodus 12:22 On Jun 6, 2009, at 6:44 PM, Betty Eddy wrote: > Kim, > > I have deliberated about your answer to my question about what was > going on between G-d and Moses. I am sorry, but I don?t see your > logic based on the verses. > > > Exodus:12 says, And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round > about, saying: Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the > mount, or touch the border of it; whosoever toucheth the mount shall > be surely put to death; > > > 21 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Go down, charge the people, lest > they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish. > > > This was a repeat of verse 12. He was reminding Moses to tell the > people to do this. This I understand. What I don?t understand is > that verse 22 says, And let the priests also, that come near to the > LORD, sanctify themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.' > > > What does this verse mean? He separated the priests from the people, > whom He had just mentioned. That implies something different is > going on. He also says they were to come near the LORD. > > > Then verse 23 says, And Moses said unto the LORD: 'The people cannot > come up to mount Sinai; for thou didst charge us, saying: Set bounds > about the mount, and sanctify it.' > > > This implies that Moses heard something he didn?t understand from G- > d, so what did G-d mean about the priests that come near the LORD? G- > d?s answer to this was: verse 24And the LORD said unto him: 'Go, get > thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee; but > let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the > LORD, lest He break forth upon them.' > > > The second time, G-d said that it was safe for Aaron to come up the > mountain. Now G-d adds the people and the priests were not allowed > to come up the mountain. This is a change from verse 12. > > > So, either Moses didn?t understand what G-d was saying, or G-d > changed his mind. I would like to understand. > > Betty Eddy > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/3/09, kim alvarado wrote: > > From: kim alvarado > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24 > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 1:11 AM > > Betty, > > My thoughts about the mountain being in the air (if it did indeed > happen-as it is Midrash) is that it was only at the time that HaShem > spoke the Ten Words. In other words, the mountain rose after Moses > had descended and then was back on the ground afterward when Israel > asked to no longer HaShem's voice. As a sidenote, Hez just posted > something about the Oral Torah on SWW. He mentioned that in > Midrash, Israel willing accepted the Written Torah, but when it came > time to accept the Oral Torah they had to accept, less HaShem drop > the mountain on them. > > As far as repeating the instruction not to approach the mountain, I > believe HaShem knew the weakness of His people. It needed to be > repeated. In Exodus 20:19 & 20, HaShem repeated the commandment not > to make for yourself gods of silver or gold. Alas, to no avail. > > People write G-d out of respect to different HaShem from the false > gods of the nation. > > Shalom, > Kim > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:23 PM, wrote: > I have some questions about the reading from last week. Maybe > someone could help me. > > > > Exodus: 12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, > saying: Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, > or touch the border of it; whosoever toucheth the mount shall be > surely put to death; > > 13 no hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot > through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live; when the > ram's horn soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.' > > > A comment. There has been some thought that they stood under the > mountain and it became a chuppa, but that couldn?t be so because > they wouldn?t have been able to touch it if it were in the air. > > > 17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet God; > and they stood at the nether part of the mount. > > > What part was the nether part? > > . > > 21 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Go down, charge the people, lest > they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish. > > 22 And let the priests also, that come near to the LORD, sanctify > themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.' > > 23 And Moses said unto the LORD: 'The people cannot come up to mount > Sinai; for thou didst charge us, saying: Set bounds about the mount, > and sanctify it.' > > 24 And the LORD said unto him: 'Go, get thee down, and thou shalt > come up, thou, and Aaron with thee; but let not the priests and the > people break through to come up unto the LORD, lest He break forth > upon them.' > > > What do these passages mean? At a glance, it sounds like God forgot > and Moses reminded Him. Does anyone know what other translations say? > > > Another question. Why do people write G-d instead of God? > > Betty Eddy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/71a2e3e8/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Sun Jun 7 05:34:45 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 06:34:45 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24 In-Reply-To: <451790.54615.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <451790.54615.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <70D5D0EE-4623-4EDD-BF7B-1C75711920FA@earthlink.net> Sorry, that message got sent before I was finished. I was saying that I don't think the phrase in Exodus 19:22 is implying that the priests were to come up, then God changed his mind. Rather it is a general phrase describing the priest, i.e., their function is to approach YHVH, but the point is even that group, that is set aside to approach, is not to approach. James On Jun 6, 2009, at 6:44 PM, Betty Eddy wrote: > Kim, > > I have deliberated about your answer to my question about what was > going on between G-d and Moses. I am sorry, but I don?t see your > logic based on the verses. > > > Exodus:12 says, And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round > about, saying: Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the > mount, or touch the border of it; whosoever toucheth the mount shall > be surely put to death; > > > 21 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Go down, charge the people, lest > they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish. > > > This was a repeat of verse 12. He was reminding Moses to tell the > people to do this. This I understand. What I don?t understand is > that verse 22 says, And let the priests also, that come near to the > LORD, sanctify themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.' > > > What does this verse mean? He separated the priests from the people, > whom He had just mentioned. That implies something different is > going on. He also says they were to come near the LORD. > > > Then verse 23 says, And Moses said unto the LORD: 'The people cannot > come up to mount Sinai; for thou didst charge us, saying: Set bounds > about the mount, and sanctify it.' > > > This implies that Moses heard something he didn?t understand from G- > d, so what did G-d mean about the priests that come near the LORD? G- > d?s answer to this was: verse 24And the LORD said unto him: 'Go, get > thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee; but > let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the > LORD, lest He break forth upon them.' > > > The second time, G-d said that it was safe for Aaron to come up the > mountain. Now G-d adds the people and the priests were not allowed > to come up the mountain. This is a change from verse 12. > > > So, either Moses didn?t understand what G-d was saying, or G-d > changed his mind. I would like to understand. > > Betty Eddy > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/3/09, kim alvarado wrote: > > From: kim alvarado > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24 > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 1:11 AM > > Betty, > > My thoughts about the mountain being in the air (if it did indeed > happen-as it is Midrash) is that it was only at the time that HaShem > spoke the Ten Words. In other words, the mountain rose after Moses > had descended and then was back on the ground afterward when Israel > asked to no longer HaShem's voice. As a sidenote, Hez just posted > something about the Oral Torah on SWW. He mentioned that in > Midrash, Israel willing accepted the Written Torah, but when it came > time to accept the Oral Torah they had to accept, less HaShem drop > the mountain on them. > > As far as repeating the instruction not to approach the mountain, I > believe HaShem knew the weakness of His people. It needed to be > repeated. In Exodus 20:19 & 20, HaShem repeated the commandment not > to make for yourself gods of silver or gold. Alas, to no avail. > > People write G-d out of respect to different HaShem from the false > gods of the nation. > > Shalom, > Kim > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:23 PM, wrote: > I have some questions about the reading from last week. Maybe > someone could help me. > > > > Exodus: 12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, > saying: Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, > or touch the border of it; whosoever toucheth the mount shall be > surely put to death; > > 13 no hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot > through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live; when the > ram's horn soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.' > > > A comment. There has been some thought that they stood under the > mountain and it became a chuppa, but that couldn?t be so because > they wouldn?t have been able to touch it if it were in the air. > > > 17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet God; > and they stood at the nether part of the mount. > > > What part was the nether part? > > . > > 21 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Go down, charge the people, lest > they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish. > > 22 And let the priests also, that come near to the LORD, sanctify > themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.' > > 23 And Moses said unto the LORD: 'The people cannot come up to mount > Sinai; for thou didst charge us, saying: Set bounds about the mount, > and sanctify it.' > > 24 And the LORD said unto him: 'Go, get thee down, and thou shalt > come up, thou, and Aaron with thee; but let not the priests and the > people break through to come up unto the LORD, lest He break forth > upon them.' > > > What do these passages mean? At a glance, it sounds like God forgot > and Moses reminded Him. Does anyone know what other translations say? > > > Another question. Why do people write G-d instead of God? > > Betty Eddy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/32af749f/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 09:01:13 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:01:13 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "Winners & Losers: The Importance of Morale" Message-ID: <855590370906070701l4750f97aocbab1cfdc1a4e638@mail.gmail.com> Shavua tov L'Kulam, Below is a brief piece that Rav Lazer Brody wrote last week...it's weighed very heavily on my mind this past week. Particularly in light of the impending American sellout of Israel....and there's SO MUCH that can be said about THAT. Be strong, and have courage.... * Hanoch* ** Winners and Losers: The importance of morale. One must never underestimate the power of morale, especially in a spiritual war like the kind we're fighting today, on the verge of redemption. Let me take you back to Britain of 1940. Hitler's Luftwaffe was pounding the UK; all of London was in bomb shelters. On September 7th, 1940, a massive 330 tons of bombs were dropped on London. The bombing continued for 57 consecutive nights. Britain was sorely licking its wounds. Yet, Winston Churchill addressed the nation and said, "We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; *we shall never surrender!*" A year later, Churchill said, "Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." The British, strengthened by the words of their leader, held a stiff upper lip and became winners. How I wish an Israeli leader would tell the world, "We shall never surrender...we shall never give up one tiny letter of the Torah's commandments and principles!" The more we stand on our convictions to G-d and his Torah, the more we shall defeat the forces of *epikursis* in the world that are out to destroy us in a spiritual war to the death. By strengthening ourselves daily in the service of Hashem, we are winners. Losers are the ones who sacrifice their principles under pressure. We shall fight for the principles of Torah whatever the cost may be. With Hashem on our side, our morale is forever high. Faith will win - soon. Sunday, 31 May 2009 at -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/6417214e/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sun Jun 7 09:22:50 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:22:50 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "Winners & Losers: The Importance of Morale" In-Reply-To: <855590370906070701l4750f97aocbab1cfdc1a4e638@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370906070701l4750f97aocbab1cfdc1a4e638@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: "NEVER GIVE IN. NEVER GIVE IN. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER".................................AAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!!!!!!!! Keep 'em comin' Hanoch! Avigail Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:01:13 -0400 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] "Winners & Losers: The Importance of Morale" Shavua tov L'Kulam, Below is a brief piece that Rav Lazer Brody wrote last week...it's weighed very heavily on my mind this past week. Particularly in light of the impending American sellout of Israel....and there's SO MUCH that can be said about THAT. Be strong, and have courage.... Hanoch Winners and Losers: The importance of morale. One must never underestimate the power of morale, especially in a spiritual war like the kind we're fighting today, on the verge of redemption. Let me take you back to Britain of 1940. Hitler's Luftwaffe was pounding the UK; all of London was in bomb shelters. On September 7th, 1940, a massive 330 tons of bombs were dropped on London. The bombing continued for 57 consecutive nights. Britain was sorely licking its wounds. Yet, Winston Churchill addressed the nation and said, "We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender!" A year later, Churchill said, "Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." The British, strengthened by the words of their leader, held a stiff upper lip and became winners. How I wish an Israeli leader would tell the world, "We shall never surrender...we shall never give up one tiny letter of the Torah's commandments and principles!" The more we stand on our convictions to G-d and his Torah, the more we shall defeat the forces of epikursis in the world that are out to destroy us in a spiritual war to the death. By strengthening ourselves daily in the service of Hashem, we are winners. Losers are the ones who sacrifice their principles under pressure. We shall fight for the principles of Torah whatever the cost may be. With Hashem on our side, our morale is forever high. Faith will win - soon. Sunday, 31 May 2009 at -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/c2306d99/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sun Jun 7 09:35:16 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:35:16 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] WHAT THE CHINESE DISCOVERED ABOUT TEFILLIN ..just amazing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A friend sent this to me today. Thought I'd pass it on. Avigail UNBELIEVABLE WHAT THE CHINESE DISCOVERED ABOUT TEFFILIN Who of us doesn't know about Chinese Acupuncture? The Chinese discovered the medical treatment using needles to heal when they are inserted at certain points in the body. The Chinese have mapped out and named all the points of the body du 24 - du 70 - du 23, and so on. And the Chinese Journal of Medicine - to which everyone important in the field of Acupuncture subscribes - published an amazing article, absolutely astonishing. The main article in volume number 70 of the Journal deals solely with the Tefillin of the Jewish People. The article conclusively establishes that the contact and pressure points covered by the hand and head Tefillin are exactly those points at which the Acupuncture needles are inserted in order "to increase spirituality and to purify thoughts." The non-Jewish author of the article puts it that the points covered by the Tefillin are those where the Acupuncture needles are inserted. Reverse the statement to read: The Acupuncture needles are inserted in those points, which are exactly where a Jew puts on Tefillin. The article details all of the Acupuncture points which are the same as the points-of-contact of the head Tefillin - front and back - as well as the points-of-contact of the hand Tefillin on the arm and hand. In the opinion of the expert who wrote the article, these are the only Acupuncture points that will achieve this result [to increase spirituality and to purify thoughts] which, in addition to following the Torah's command to place the Tefillin on the arm (hand) and head as a sign that HASHEM brought us out of Egypt with a strong hand, is likely the reason that Jews put on Tefillin. Absolutely e-mazing ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: ATT00001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 54 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/2d1da780/attachment.gif From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 7 10:22:10 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 10:22:10 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] RE: [DialogueCoenie CORRECTION] new prayer request In-Reply-To: References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> Message-ID: Cornie, I was very tired last night when I posted the email to you below. I need to make a correction. The name of the book that James recommended is HEBREW ORIGINS OF THE LORD'S PRAYER. The name that I quoted was the title of my brother's email! Sorry. Prayers with Tina this am and you dear Cornie, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Betty K Givin Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:44 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] new prayer request Dear Cornie, I will pray too, as I have been where your sister Tina is in the sense that I struggled so hard in the beginning of my search in what to do with Jesus. Isaiah 43:11 is one of the strongest passages that I can think of for Tina to read and imprint in her mind as it is so powerful. I remember calling my brother so distraught that I just didn't know what to do with myself. He told me to go into my closet, kneel down and pray to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.that is what I did.and here I am now. I am not saying that it was an overnight cure because it wasn't.it was a process.almost a grieving process.because "Jesus" as I knew him had been with me since a child and as I was finding out more and more truth, I realized that he was not who I thought he was, and it was very difficult to give up all of those pre-conceived notions, but for me there was no choice. I would say to Tina, focus on Isaiah 43:11, and encourage her to re-discover who her real Savior is, and to know that He is the ONE and ONLY G-D, that we should love with all of our hearts, soul and might.as attested in the Shema, which Jesus quoted as the greatest commandment. This same G-D was the G-D that Jesus prayed and had his allegiance to. You might also check out the new book by Gordon and Johnson that James has recommended."A Prayer to our Father: A Review and Personal Testimony. " It sounds like it might just give Tina the comfort she needs right now. Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:35 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] new prayer request Cornie, Will certainly be praying for your sister, Tina, as well as her son-in-law, that they will be set free to cleave to our One and Only Savior, the G-d of Avraham, Yitzchak and Ya'acov. It's wonderful and encouraging to know that you are reaching out to these family members, and that they are hearing. I will remember to pray Is. 43:11 especially for Tina as you have said that she will learn to cast all her burdens on Him, and Him alone. I, even I, am the L-RD, and beside Me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:11 Shavua tov, Dear Friend, Avigail/Pat _____ Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:18:46 -0500 From: cormary at mts.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request Marvin and all Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like you are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have kept this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, who has for years tried to understand and sympathize with my obnoxious to Christianities, views, but now that her very religious husband passed away within the last year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years of age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on her nerves. She thrived on me being there for her in her bereavement and lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very much Christian children, and children's children. I was trying to be very careful what to share with her, yet she was complaining that I had so many people to share my faith with by e-mail etc. And she had so little. Than I gave her a copy of James book on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems like that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me on the phone one day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO NOW? She can not dare to share it with any of her family. I think she has two preachers if not more as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize with her, for the loss of her husband. But even though she was now freed up from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain of a family bond under the same title!!!!! So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, please pray for her to know how to face life under her present predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe what seemed to convict her that life from here on would have to be without Jesus, on whom she had so much tried to just take all of her burdens and stress. One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the book "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite enthused about it. So she got the idea, if i would send this one back to her, she would offer it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find out what would happen. Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a tooo heavy burden, to ease it off her shoulder, just too heavy for her alone. I am afraid that might almost react like coming up as a suicide bomber!!! I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we read of in Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. But I also told her maybe it would be a great idea to share that book with her son-in-law!!! Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One way might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some of you dear ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in time eventually. I could share what you might answer me on this letter with her, and see if she would like to have an e-mail once in a while from whom she might choose. I know this is going to be very tender and touchy. She is just waiting for a Messiah to come and take us all away to higher ground. There is just too much at stake to wait much longer for some kind of relief to come for her. Her family have a lot of health problems as well. May Hashem bless you all. Cornie mhyde wrote: I don't think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda -mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial.. they would rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America. But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don't.. it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what.. someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon... It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going... but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time... I have no answer.. I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don't see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I'm missing something... but I'm believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. I'm done venting.. but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. Shalom, Ya'll _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, < carlson_john at bellsouth.net> wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/0defb072/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Sun Jun 7 10:33:14 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 10:33:14 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Duplicate emails In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A2BDDBA.2010709@mts.net> Betty I had this problem for a while too, that is if it was the same problem, starting when I changed my e-mail address after I had alerted people to my new address, while i was still on both systems. They were double till I got totally disconnected with my former Internet provider. For a while I was on both of them at the same time. Betty I am so glad you and others responded to my prayer request for my sister Tina. I called her this morning and asked her if it was alright that I had requested prayer for her from you of the dialogue group, and she responded favorably, I told her i would send her some of you ladies messages and she sounded excited about that. Hoping your job application will work for you Betty. Cornie Betty K Givin wrote: > > Friends, I do not know what is going on with my "duplicate" emails. I > will have to call Verizon on Monday to see what's up because I keep > getting this weird message that my message will not be sent. I close > the message and then find that it sends it twice. Anybody else ever > have this problem? > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/fa0c57b6/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Sun Jun 7 10:52:51 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 10:52:51 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> Message-ID: <4A2BE253.5020604@mts.net> Tina, my dear sister I am sending you the copy of a number of letters, or I should write, e-mails. All included in this one. Also the one I wrote to the group for a prayer request. Maybe you want to check them out. Who knows they may end up being your friends. Just see what you think for now. May the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, (your Saviour) bless you and keep you. Enjoy!!! Your brother Cornie Betty K Givin wrote: > > Dear Cornie, > > > > I will pray too, as I have been where your sister Tina is in the sense > that I struggled so hard in the beginning of my search in what to do > with Jesus. Isaiah 43:11 is one of the strongest passages that I can > think of for Tina to read and imprint in her mind as it is so > powerful. I remember calling my brother so distraught that I just > didn't know what to do with myself. He told me to go into my closet, > kneel down and pray to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...that is > what I did...and here I am now. I am not saying that it was an > overnight cure because it wasn't...it was a process...almost a > grieving process...because "Jesus" as I knew him had been with me > since a child and as I was finding out more and more truth, I realized > that he was not who I thought he was, and it was very difficult to > give up all of those pre-conceived notions, but for me there was no > choice. > > I would say to Tina, focus on Isaiah 43:11, and encourage her to > re-discover who her real Savior is, and to know that He is the ONE and > ONLY G-D, that we should love with all of our hearts, soul and > might...as attested in the Shema, which Jesus quoted as the greatest > commandment. This same G-D was the G-D that Jesus prayed and had his > allegiance to. > > > > You might also check out the new book by Gordon and Johnson that James > has recommended..."A Prayer to our Father: A Review and Personal > Testimony. " It sounds like it might just give Tina the comfort she > needs right now. > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > > * From: * dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *patricia robbins > *Sent:* Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:35 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* RE: [Dialogue] new prayer request > > > > Cornie, > > Will certainly be praying for your sister, Tina, as well as her > son-in-law, that they will be set free to cleave to our One and > Only Savior, the G-d of Avraham, Yitzchak and Ya'acov. It's wonderful > and encouraging to know that you are reaching out to these family > members, and that they are hearing. I will remember to pray Is. 43:11 > especially for Tina as you have said that she will learn to cast all > her burdens on Him, and Him alone. > > > I, even I, am the L-RD, and beside Me there is no savior. > > Isaiah 43:11 > > > Shavua tov, Dear Friend, > > Avigail/Pat > > > Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:18:46 -0500 > From: cormary at mts.net > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request > > Marvin and all > > Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like you > are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. > > Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have kept > this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, who has > for years tried to understand and sympathize with my obnoxious to > Christianities, views, but now that her very religious husband > passed away within the last year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" > supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. > > But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years of > age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on her > nerves. She thrived on me being there for her in her bereavement and > lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very much Christian children, and > children's children. I was trying to be very careful what to share > with her, yet she was complaining that I had so many people to share > my faith with by e-mail etc. And she had so little. Than I gave her a > copy of James book on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems like > that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me on the phone one > day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO NOW? She > can not dare to share it with any of her family. I think she has two > preachers if not more as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize > with her, for the loss of her husband. But even though she was now > freed up from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain > of a family bond under the same title!!!!! > > So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, > please pray for her to know how to face life under her present > predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe what seemed to > convict her that life from here on would have to be without Jesus, on > whom she had so much tried to just take all of her burdens and stress. > > One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the book > "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite enthused > about it. So she got the idea, if i would send this one back to her, > she would offer it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find > out what would happen. Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a tooo > heavy burden, to ease it off her shoulder, just too heavy for her > alone. I am afraid that might almost react like coming up as a suicide > bomber!!! > > I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but > encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we read of > in */ Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no > saviour./* But I also told her maybe it would be a great idea to share > that book with her son-in-law!!! > > Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One way > might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some of you > dear ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in time > eventually. I could share what you might answer me on this letter > with her, and see if she would like to have an e-mail once in a while > from whom she might choose. I know this is going to be very tender > and touchy. She is just waiting for a Messiah to come and take us all > away to higher ground. There is just too much at stake to wait much > longer for some kind of relief to come for her. Her family have a lot > of health problems as well. > > May Hashem bless you all. > > Cornie > > > > > mhyde wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. > Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a > family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda > --mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the > deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not > study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a > few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were > they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to > them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue > scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they > have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people > in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial...... they would rather > fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after > twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to > get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the > people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form > America . > > > > But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program > and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. > > > > In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass > this on to them? Maybe, we don't...... it is up to God to call who he > will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass > our faith on to the next generation? > > > > I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 > valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the > last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her > relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what...... someone > controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of > her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a > 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon....... It rings > so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church > gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. > Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her > collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to > win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 > or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to > keep their program going..... but as we get older many of us see the > fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then > opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and > desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to > meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people > still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and > reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a > waste of time..... > > > > I have no answer.... I have thought on this subject often these past > couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My > Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way > or other. But everywhere I look around me I don't see anybody batting > that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I'm > missing something..... but I'm believing that Hashem is going to have > to do something to get peoples attention. > > > > I'm done venting...... but still with the question of how do we > reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there > I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. > > > > Shalom, Ya'll > > > > > > * From: * dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *kim alvarado > *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Dialogue] Living the Shema > > > > I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts > listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" > > > > Eliron, > > > > I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we > should focus on our families first...especially our children who are > still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in > the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise > up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our > children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought > is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that > you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role > models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is > not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that > are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." > > > > BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We > are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, > we need more. > > > > > > In love, > > Kim > > - Hide quoted text - > > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, < carlson_john at bellsouth.net > > wrote: > > - Hide quoted text - > > Hey James and all, > > > > We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at > Temple Sinai . One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has > been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware > (especially our children) of this awakening. > > > > Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective > time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" > time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a > very good idea with a very appropriate approach. > > > > I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that > even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's > calling His people out of the nations is something very different > than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a > clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. > > > > But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will > send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not > careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell > into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. > > > > What are y'all's thoughts on this? > > > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/5f8713cf/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Sun Jun 7 10:59:29 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 10:59:29 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: <4A2BE253.5020604@mts.net> References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> <4A2BE253.5020604@mts.net> Message-ID: <4A2BE3E1.2060609@mts.net> I am sorry, this previous one was a mistake to be addressed to the dialogue, I had forgotten to readdress this to my sister, so it just hopped right back to the dialogue group. Cornie Cornie Reimer wrote: > Tina, my dear sister > > I am sending you the copy of a number of letters, or I should write, > e-mails. All included in this one. Also the one I wrote to the group > for a prayer request. Maybe you want to check them out. Who knows they > may end up being your friends. Just see what you think for now. May > the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, (your Saviour) bless you and keep > you. Enjoy!!! > > Your brother > > Cornie > > > > Betty K Givin wrote: >> >> Dear Cornie, >> >> >> >> I will pray too, as I have been where your sister Tina is in the >> sense that I struggled so hard in the beginning of my search in what >> to do with Jesus. Isaiah 43:11 is one of the strongest passages that >> I can think of for Tina to read and imprint in her mind as it is so >> powerful. I remember calling my brother so distraught that I just >> didn't know what to do with myself. He told me to go into my closet, >> kneel down and pray to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...that is >> what I did...and here I am now. I am not saying that it was an >> overnight cure because it wasn't...it was a process...almost a >> grieving process...because "Jesus" as I knew him had been with me >> since a child and as I was finding out more and more truth, I >> realized that he was not who I thought he was, and it was very >> difficult to give up all of those pre-conceived notions, but for me >> there was no choice. >> >> I would say to Tina, focus on Isaiah 43:11, and encourage her to >> re-discover who her real Savior is, and to know that He is the ONE >> and ONLY G-D, that we should love with all of our hearts, soul and >> might...as attested in the Shema, which Jesus quoted as the greatest >> commandment. This same G-D was the G-D that Jesus prayed and had his >> allegiance to. >> >> >> >> You might also check out the new book by Gordon and Johnson that >> James has recommended..."A Prayer to our Father: A Review and >> Personal Testimony. " It sounds like it might just give Tina the >> comfort she needs right now. >> >> >> >> Elisheva/Betty >> >> >> >> * From: * dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >> >> [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *patricia >> robbins >> *Sent:* Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:35 PM >> *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >> *Subject:* RE: [Dialogue] new prayer request >> >> >> >> Cornie, >> >> Will certainly be praying for your sister, Tina, as well as her >> son-in-law, that they will be set free to cleave to our One and >> Only Savior, the G-d of Avraham, Yitzchak and Ya'acov. It's >> wonderful and encouraging to know that you are reaching out to these >> family members, and that they are hearing. I will remember to pray >> Is. 43:11 especially for Tina as you have said that she will learn to >> cast all her burdens on Him, and Him alone. >> >> >> I, even I, am the L-RD, and beside Me there is no savior. >> >> Isaiah 43:11 >> >> >> Shavua tov, Dear Friend, >> >> Avigail/Pat >> >> >> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:18:46 -0500 >> From: cormary at mts.net >> To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >> Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request >> >> Marvin and all >> >> Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like you >> are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. >> >> Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have kept >> this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, who has >> for years tried to understand and sympathize with my obnoxious to >> Christianities, views, but now that her very religious husband >> passed away within the last year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" >> supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. >> >> But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years of >> age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on her >> nerves. She thrived on me being there for her in her bereavement and >> lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very much Christian children, and >> children's children. I was trying to be very careful what to share >> with her, yet she was complaining that I had so many people to share >> my faith with by e-mail etc. And she had so little. Than I gave her a >> copy of James book on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems like >> that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me on the phone one >> day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO NOW? She >> can not dare to share it with any of her family. I think she has two >> preachers if not more as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize >> with her, for the loss of her husband. But even though she was now >> freed up from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the >> chain of a family bond under the same title!!!!! >> >> So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, >> please pray for her to know how to face life under her present >> predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe what seemed to >> convict her that life from here on would have to be without Jesus, on >> whom she had so much tried to just take all of her burdens and stress. >> >> One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the book >> "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite enthused >> about it. So she got the idea, if i would send this one back to her, >> she would offer it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find >> out what would happen. Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a >> tooo heavy burden, to ease it off her shoulder, just too heavy for >> her alone. I am afraid that might almost react like coming up as a >> suicide bomber!!! >> >> I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but >> encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we read >> of in */ Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no >> saviour./* But I also told her maybe it would be a great idea to >> share that book with her son-in-law!!! >> >> Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One >> way might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some of >> you dear ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in time >> eventually. I could share what you might answer me on this letter >> with her, and see if she would like to have an e-mail once in a >> while from whom she might choose. I know this is going to be very >> tender and touchy. She is just waiting for a Messiah to come and >> take us all away to higher ground. There is just too much at stake to >> wait much longer for some kind of relief to come for her. Her family >> have a lot of health problems as well. >> >> May Hashem bless you all. >> >> Cornie >> >> >> >> >> mhyde wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I don't think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. >> Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a >> family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda >> --mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the >> deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not >> study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a >> few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were >> they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to >> them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue >> scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they >> have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the >> people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial...... they would >> rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, >> after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors >> down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of >> the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not >> form America . >> >> >> >> But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program >> and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. >> >> >> >> In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass >> this on to them? Maybe, we don't...... it is up to God to call who >> he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we >> pass our faith on to the next generation? >> >> >> >> I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were >> 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but >> the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her >> relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what...... someone >> controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of >> her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a >> 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon....... It >> rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the >> church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five >> years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form >> finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to >> go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were >> she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the >> young to continue to keep their program going..... but as we get >> older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, >> and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was >> that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, >> and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. >> But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and >> sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has >> nothing to say. What a waste of time..... >> >> >> >> I have no answer.... I have thought on this subject often these past >> couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My >> Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way >> or other. But everywhere I look around me I don't see anybody >> batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, >> I'm missing something..... but I'm believing that Hashem is going to >> have to do something to get peoples attention. >> >> >> >> I'm done venting...... but still with the question of how do we >> reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there >> I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. >> >> >> >> Shalom, Ya'll >> >> >> >> >> >> * From: * dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >> >> [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *kim alvarado >> *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM >> *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >> *Subject:* [Dialogue] Living the Shema >> >> >> >> I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts >> listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" >> >> >> >> Eliron, >> >> >> >> I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we >> should focus on our families first...especially our children who are >> still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in >> the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise >> up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our >> children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought >> is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that >> you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role >> models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is >> not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that >> are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." >> >> >> >> BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. >> We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our >> children, we need more. >> >> >> >> >> >> In love, >> >> Kim >> >> - Hide quoted text - >> >> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, < carlson_john at bellsouth.net >> > wrote: >> >> - Hide quoted text - >> >> Hey James and all, >> >> >> >> We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at >> Temple Sinai . One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has >> been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware >> (especially our children) of this awakening. >> >> >> >> Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective >> time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" >> time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a >> very good idea with a very appropriate approach. >> >> >> >> I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that >> even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's >> calling His people out of the nations is something very different >> than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a >> clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. >> >> >> >> But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will >> send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not >> careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell >> into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. >> >> >> >> What are y'all's thoughts on this? >> >> >> >> -- >> Eliron/John. >> >> "Be excellent to each other!" >> Bill and Ted >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/6e613b84/attachment.html From j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 7 12:02:08 2009 From: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net (Helen Lusk) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> Message-ID: <154567.65547.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Cornie: I can really understand how perturbed your dear sister must be. It is not easy to change from all that you have been taught all of your life and have also passed on to your children. In the end if we are sincerely searching, we have to cry out to Hashem, the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and ask Him to show us His truth. He always answers when we are sincere and wholly searching for Him. I am praying for Tina and her family to find this truth. So glad she has you to help and encourage her, Cornie, just as she was always there for you and tried to understand your change and journey in understanding of the scriptures. May Hashem bless and guide you all. I hope perhaps Tina might consider joining our dialogue group. Shaloma and kind regards, Helen (Avigail Sara) ________________________________ From: Cornie Reimer To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2009 5:18:46 PM Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request Marvin and all Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like you are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have kept this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, who has for years tried to understand and sympathize with my obnoxious to Christianities, views, but now that her? very religious husband? passed away within the last year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years of age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on her nerves.? She thrived on me being there for her in her bereavement and lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very much Christian children, and children's children. I was trying to be very careful what to share with her, yet she was complaining that I had so many people to share my faith with by e-mail etc. And she had so little. Than I gave her a copy of James book? on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems like that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me on the phone one day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO NOW? She can not dare to share it with any of her family. I think she has two preachers if not more as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize with her, for the loss of her husband. But even though she was now freed up from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain of a family bond under the same title!!!!! So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, please pray for her to know how to face life under her present predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe what seemed to convict her that life from here on would have to be without Jesus, on whom she had so much tried to just take all of her burdens and stress. One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the book? "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite enthused about it. So she got the idea, if i would send this one back to her, she would offer it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find out what would happen. Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a tooo heavy burden, to ease it off her shoulder, just too heavy for her alone. I am afraid that might almost react like coming up as a suicide bomber!!! I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we read of in?Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. But I also told her maybe it would be a great idea to share that book with her son-in-law!!! Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One way might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some of you dear ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in time eventually. I could? share what? you might answer me on this letter with her, and see if she would like to? have an e-mail once in a while from? whom she might choose. I know this is going to be very tender and touchy. She is just waiting? for a Messiah to come and take us all away to higher ground. There is just too much at stake to wait? much longer for some kind of relief to come for her. Her family have a lot of health problems as well. May Hashem bless you all. Cornie ? ? mhyde wrote: ? ? ? I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic.?? Because there are very few who want to listen.? Remember one from a family!?? In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus.?? Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved.?? Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are.?? I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them.? But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school.?? In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then switch.??? I guess I have a bad attitude.?? But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in.?? I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America.???? ? But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation ?program and they seem to be growing.? Just kidding. ? In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them?? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses.?? ???How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? ? I went to my youngest daughters? HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what??? someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute ?sermon.?? She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA.?? I sat and listen to the same ole sermon??.?? It rings so hollow.? I looked at the wife an said,? Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years.??? ??Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree.? She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus.?? If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years.?? My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going?..? but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception.? We then opt out.?? My personal experience was that I turned? my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough ?to meet some very good teachers along the way.? But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say.?? What a waste of time?.. ? I have no answer?.? I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years.? How can we reach this younger generation??? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other.? But everywhere I look around me I don?t see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then? 30)??? maybe, I?m missing something?..? but I?m believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention.?? ? I?m done venting???? but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message??? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint,? you have a unique story. ? Shalom, Ya?ll ? ? ________________________________ From:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema ? I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" ? Eliron, ? I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. ?In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... ?If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. ?My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. ? HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." ? BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. ?We are a community...a family. ?However, when it comes to our children, we need more. ? ? In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM,??wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, ? We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai.? One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children)?of this awakening. ? Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas.? I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. ? I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism.? In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out.? I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. ? But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into.? I don't think I need to elaborate on that. ? What are y'all's thoughts on this? ? -- Eliron/John.? "Be excellent to each other!"? Bill and Ted? ________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/fcd30b70/attachment.html From betty_m_eddy at yahoo.com Sun Jun 7 14:28:11 2009 From: betty_m_eddy at yahoo.com (Betty Eddy) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 12:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24 Message-ID: <315479.69163.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thank you, that makes sense to me. Betty Eddy --- On Sun, 6/7/09, James Tabor wrote: From: James Tabor Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24 To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 5:34 AM Sorry, that message got sent before I was finished. I was saying that I don't think the phrase in Exodus 19:22 is implying that the priests were to come up, then God changed his mind. Rather it is a general phrase describing the priest, i.e., their function is to approach YHVH, but the point is even that group, that is set aside to approach, is not to approach.? James On Jun 6, 2009, at 6:44 PM, Betty Eddy wrote: Kim, I have deliberated about your answer to my question about what was going on between G-d and Moses.?I am sorry, but I don?t see your logic based on the verses. Exodus:12?says, And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying: Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it; whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death;? 21?And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish.? This was a repeat of verse 12. He was reminding Moses to tell the people to do this. This I understand. What I don?t understand is that verse?22?says, And let the priests also,?that come near to the LORD, sanctify themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.' What does this verse mean? He separated the priests from the people, whom He had just mentioned. That implies something different is going on. He also says they were to come near the LORD.? Then verse?23?says, And Moses said unto the LORD: 'The people cannot come up to?mount Sinai; for thou didst charge us, saying: Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it.' This implies that Moses heard something he didn?t understand from G-d, so what did G-d mean about the priests that come near the LORD? G-d?s answer to this was: verse?24And the LORD said unto him: 'Go, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee; but let?not?the priests and the people break through to come up unto the LORD, lest He break forth upon them.' The second time, G-d said that it was safe for Aaron to come up the mountain. Now G-d adds the people and the priests were not allowed to come up the mountain. This is a change from verse 12. So, either Moses didn?t understand what G-d was saying, or G-d changed his mind. I would like to understand. Betty?Eddy --- On?Wed, 6/3/09, kim alvarado??wrote: From: kim alvarado Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24 To:?dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 1:11 AM Betty, My thoughts about the mountain being in the air (if it did indeed happen-as it is Midrash) is that it was only at the time that HaShem spoke the Ten Words. ?In other words, the mountain rose after Moses had descended and then was back on the ground afterward when Israel asked to no longer HaShem's voice. As a sidenote, Hez just posted something about the Oral Torah on SWW. ?He mentioned that in Midrash, Israel willing accepted the Written Torah, but when it came time to accept the Oral Torah they had to accept, less HaShem drop the mountain on them.? As far as repeating the instruction not to approach the mountain, I believe HaShem knew the weakness of His people. It needed to be repeated. In Exodus 20:19 & 20, HaShem repeated the commandment not to make for yourself gods of silver or gold. ?Alas, to no avail. People write G-d out of respect to different HaShem from the false gods of the nation. Shalom,Kim On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:23 PM,??wrote: I have some questions about the reading from last week. Maybe someone could help me.?Exodus: 12?And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying: Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it; whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death;13?no hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live; when the ram's horn soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.'? A comment. There has been some thought that they stood under the mountain and it became a chuppa, but that couldn?t be so because they wouldn?t have been able to touch it if it were in the air.? 17?And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.? What part was the nether part?.21?And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish.22?And let the priests also, that come near to the LORD, sanctify themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.'23?And Moses said unto the LORD: 'The people cannot come up to mount Sinai; for thou didst charge us, saying: Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it.'24?And the LORD said unto him: 'Go, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee; but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the LORD, lest He break forth upon them.'? What do these passages mean? At a glance, it sounds like God forgot and Moses reminded Him. Does anyone know what other translations say?? Another question. Why do people write G-d instead of God?? Betty?Eddy _______________________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/23f12e06/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Sun Jun 7 15:28:38 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:28:38 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] "The 50th Level - We Are There!" In-Reply-To: <855590370906030407t150f6179oc77bbffc3150f37c@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370906030407t150f6179oc77bbffc3150f37c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A2C22F6.60705@mts.net> How very true Hanoch. I get Rav Bar Tzadock's articles too. Very up building . Cornie Hanoch Young wrote: > Rav Bar Tzadok is one of the people I really listen to - I find him > very profound.... > */ Hanoch (96 days left.....)/* > *//* > > *The 50th Level - We Are There!* > By HaRav Ariel Bar Tzadok. Copyright (C) 2009 by Ariel Bar Tzadok. All > rights reserved. > > Introductory Note: If you are offended by the following essay, maybe > you need to be. > It never ceases to amaze me just how outright stupid and ignorant more > and more people are becoming. Our modern day society sucks out the > minds and hearts of people more and more, drawing them in and > shackling them to a reality of illusions. And G-d forbid that anyone > should disturb their pretty little worlds of make-believe importance > to attempt to wake them up to take a glimpse at the real world. Modern > society succeeds in every way to enslave the minds of people by > bogging them down with so many responsibilities, obligations and > desires that no one has any more time to simply think for themselves. > Today almost everything is a distraction keeping us from seeing the > true nature of our mental enslavement. > More and more society is becoming regimented with nonsensical > meaningless bureaucratic complexities. One must now fill out forms and > forms of information just to accomplish even the most simple of > things. Our minds have become regimented to just accept what is going > on as the only way to interact with the system. You either go with the > flow or you get left behind. And G-d forbid one should not be on the > pioneering edge, arrogantly ahead of one's neighbors. > Rather than to think and complain about the growing amount of nonsense > daily citizens are being forced to deal with, everyone just goes with > the flow, not wanting to be bothered. After all, how can one little > person fight the entire system? I am sure these were the same > sentiments spoken by individual sons of Israel in Egypt as they > witnessed their nation descending into the bonds of slavery. > Well, here we are again and we are all slaves of a different kind, yet > slaves we be. We are slaves to society, to culture, to the norms and > forays of our peers. We have to do what is expected of us, how it is > expected of us and at the right time in the right way. The > consequences for violation will be either social or legal ostracization. > 0D > Welcome to modern Egypt, the land and society of modern slavery. > Slaves you be, to your credit cards, to your way of life, the > expectations of your friends and the norms of society. No more must > the government enslave your bodies with chains. Why bother, when your > minds are chained to all the things that you consider to be so > valuable and you are so unwilling to change or give up. > Remember Humpty Dumpty, for his day is coming. And "all the king's > horses and all the king's men will not be putting Humpty back together > again." Slaves do not think; they only do as they are told. For this > reason, slaves are not afforded the same rights and privileges as free > individuals. Only a free individual can think for him/herself. Slaves > cannot think independently; slaves do not even bother to try. Slaves > just want to be told what to do and then do it. Free individuals think > for themselves and make their own decisions regardless of the > bureaucracy or the opinions of others. > Free individuals never take into account political correctness and > never just follow the crowd to conform. They do what is right simply > because it is right. Convenience is not a luxury they entertain. > I have found that the great commandment of modern society is this, > "Thou shalt not inconvenience me." The commentary on this simple: > people just want to continue doing what they are doing and they do not > want to be interrupted, bothered or slowed down. Anything that breaks > the pace of their having their fun is considered evil in their eyes. > In the eyes of the blind masses, this world is all about having fun > and being happy; nothing else matters and nothing else is more > important. This makes the pursuits of the average person similar to > and on par with those who are drug addicts or others similarly > addicted and not in control of their behavior. > Essentially, everyone today is an addict; they are addicted to having > fun and to pursuing happiness. Modern society keeps everyone addicted. > We are addicted to our entertainment media. We are addicted to > fashion. We are addi cted to social life. We are addicted to shopping. > We are addicted to the need of approval from our peers. We are > addicted to overwhelming over-stimulation, similar in every respect to > those addicted to drugs. > Even in the hallowed halls of the religious communities this poisonous > infection has taken hold. Indeed, many in the religious communities > who are affluent have become victims of their affluence. Instead of > their affluence being a blessing from G-d enabling them to do much > good; much of their affluence has been a curse that has ruined them as > individuals and has destroyed any sense of the fear of G-d in their > children. Religion and affluence is a dangerous combination that only > very, very few can handle without suffering loss in the both areas. > Slavery of the mind; this is what the Talmudic/Zoharic tradition > refers to as the 50th level of uncleanliness that would ensnare the > masses before the coming of Mashiah. Today, people see the world they > live in, love it, embrace it and can think of no other way to live; > nor do they want any other. Today, no one really wants Mashiah to > come, not unless his arrival is convenient and not too disruptive. It > is nice to talk about20how "we want Mashiah now," but who is really > willing to give up their enjoyable social lives, big houses, fancy > clothes and modern conveniences all in exchange for what? > Our society has become hedonistic, self-centered and arrogant. > Happiness is wrongly defined by how much one has instead of who one is > as an individual. There is never enough, no matter how much one has. > Consumerism has become the addictive drug of choice; buy buy buy, > more, more, more, even when the economy is bad, shopping must go on! > No one anymore has a concept of frugality; no one anymore knows what > it means to be simple. This is a recipe for ultimate collapse, for > nothing, no economy; no anything can simply grow and grow and grow > without reaching its bursting point and then finally exploding with a > destructive force that collapses everything. Yet, slaves and addicts > will never consider this; just give them their next fix, their next > trip to the mall; that's about as far as their attention span can > stretch and how far their life perspective can go. > This is the 50th level of tumah, the slavery of the mind. In this > deluded state the slave considers himself to be free and thus refuses > to seek free dom. On the contrary, real freedom of the individual to > think and act independently is abhorred; it is considered to be far > too much hard work and way too inconvenient. Why should one invest so > much effort for freedom, when they can get so much more all for free > and with relatively little effort from the television, the movies and > the mall? There is an old saying here, that rings very true, "no one > imprisoned can ever free themselves." > Today's slaves of the mind cannot free themselves; they cannot even > see their own slavery. What do you think happens to slaves of this > nature? It will certainly not be a miraculous magical emancipation and > enlightenment. There are many such fools in the religious communities > who believe and preach this nonsense. Yet, they are as deceived and > misguided as those to whom they reach out. > Blind fools all together suffer one equal and common fate; and it is > not a good one. Such a fate is only natural; it is the natural > byproduct and outcome of their lifestyles. This is historica l fact; > it has happened in the past and nothing will prevent it from happening > again in the near future. It is inevitable and only those who wake up > and learn to see will be able to jump out in time before this society > of ours hits a solid brick wall of fate at over 100 mph. > There will be many who will be very unhappy with what I have written > here; some will be angry; although most will be apathetic. They will > say, "These are my opinions; who cares about them." That is just fine. > I do not and have never played the game called, "How to win friends > and influence people." Let people believe what they will and live like > they will. Eventually they will each face their fate and no one on > Earth will be able to intervene on their behalf. This is the ultimate > price one must pay for the error of allowing distractions to blind > one's eyes. > Does anyone remember what real teshuva is? > In coming essays we will discuss more about specific threats and what > one can do to address them, if they wish t o become free of this > modern slavery... > ------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/bdd77f25/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Sun Jun 7 16:37:00 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:37:00 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: <060720090327.6341.4A2B3386000D70C6000018C522230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> <060720090327.6341.4A2B3386000D70C6000018C522230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <4A2C32FC.3000107@mts.net> Thank you John Cornie carlson_john at bellsouth.net wrote: > Hey Cornie, > > I understand your sister's predicament, I will be praying for her. > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from Cornie Reimer > : -------------- > > Marvin and all > > Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like > you are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. > > Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have > kept this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, > who has for years tried to understand and sympathize with my > obnoxious to Christianities, views, but now that her very > religious husband passed away within the last year, who was a > very staunch "Jesus" supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. > > But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years > of age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on > her nerves. She thrived on me being there for her in her > bereavement and lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very much > Christian children, and children's children. I was trying to be > very careful what to share with her, yet she was complaining that > I had so many people to share my faith with by e-mail etc. And she > had so little. Than I gave her a copy of James book on RESTORING > ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems like that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL > for her. She told me on the phone one day, that book took away my > DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO NOW? She can not dare to share it > with any of her family. I think she has two preachers if not more > as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize with her, for the > loss of her husband. But even though she was now freed up from a > bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain of a family > bond under the same title!!!!! > > So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, > please pray for her to know how to face life under her present > predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe what seemed to > convict her that life from here on would have to be without Jesus, > on whom she had so much tried to just take all of her burdens and > stress. > > One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the > book "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite > enthused about it. So she got the idea, if i would send this one > back to her, she would offer it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to > him, just to find out what would happen. Maybe hoping that he > would help her bear a tooo heavy burden, to ease it off her > shoulder, just too heavy for her alone. I am afraid that might > almost react like coming up as a suicide bomber!!! > > I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but > encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we > read of in /* Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me > there is no saviour.*/ But I also told her maybe it would be a > great idea to share that book with her son-in-law!!! > > Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One > way might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some > of you dear ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in > time eventually. I could share what you might answer me on this > letter with her, and see if she would like to have an e-mail once > in a while from whom she might choose. I know this is going to be > very tender and touchy. She is just waiting for a Messiah to come > and take us all away to higher ground. There is just too much at > stake to wait much longer for some kind of relief to come for > her. Her family have a lot of health problems as well. > > May Hashem bless you all. > > Cornie > > > > > mhyde wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. >> Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from >> a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, >> funda ?mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts >> form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and >> they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are >> a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are >> content with were they are. I have thought about going to >> jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law >> breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything >> that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. >> In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole >> cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then switch. I >> guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the >> trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I >> would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who >> visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form >> America. >> >> >> >> But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation >> program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. >> >> >> >> In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we >> pass this on to them? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call >> who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How >> do we pass our faith on to the next generation? >> >> >> >> I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their >> were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their >> speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her >> salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess >> what?? someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could >> hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for >> Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same >> ole sermon??. It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an >> said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder >> were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is >> 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is >> considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for >> Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 >> years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to >> keep their program going?.. but as we get older many of us see >> the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the >> deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I >> turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, >> and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the >> way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to >> church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the >> preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time?.. >> >> >> >> I have no answer?. I have thought on this subject often these >> past couple of years. How can we reach this younger >> generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to >> serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me >> I don?t see anybody batting that good with this young >> generation(less then 30) maybe, I?m missing something?.. but >> I?m believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get >> peoples attention. >> >> >> >> I?m done venting?? but still with the question of how do we >> reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out >> there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a >> unique story. >> >> >> >> Shalom, Ya?ll >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >> [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *kim >> alvarado >> *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM >> *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >> *Subject:* [Dialogue] Living the Shema >> >> >> >> I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting >> posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" >> >> >> >> Eliron, >> >> >> >> I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we >> should focus on our families first...especially our children who >> are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily >> life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and >> when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't >> pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's >> commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the >> lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children >> ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. >> HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be >> alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your >> will that our children may grow and learn together." >> >> >> >> BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and >> SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to >> our children, we need more. >> >> >> >> >> >> In love, >> >> Kim >> >> - Hide quoted text - >> >> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, > > wrote: >> >> - Hide quoted text - >> >> Hey James and all, >> >> >> >> We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well >> at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say >> has been popping up periodically) regarding making others >> aware (especially our children) of this awakening. >> >> >> >> Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a >> collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then >> schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm >> ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate >> approach. >> >> >> >> I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything >> that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, >> G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very >> different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure >> if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please >> say so. >> >> >> >> But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He >> will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we >> are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that >> Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on >> that. >> >> >> >> What are y'all's thoughts on this? >> >> >> >> -- >> Eliron/John. >> >> "Be excellent to each other!" >> Bill and Ted >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/7c765828/attachment.html From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 18:07:06 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:07:06 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. In-Reply-To: References: <464316.52539.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906071607p3e75505bp2e4395657a70c164@mail.gmail.com> Eliron, Thank you for posting in my place. I agree that this is a good day/date to prayer for our children. Kim On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Pamela Barbera wrote: > I will also pray as I am able on that day Betty, Shalom, Pamela > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* susan strickland > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Sent:* Sunday, June 07, 2009 3:31 PM > *Subject:* RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. > > Betty, > I would love it if you could post your blessings for your children as I am > in much the same position as you. My kids are all grown and I now have 7 > grandchildren which I would love to pray for in a special way on Shabbat. I > will be out of town next Shabbat but will pray as time permits which > suprisingly HaShem seems to work out. > > Thank You, Susan > > --- On *Sun, 6/7/09, Betty K Givin * wrote: > > > From: Betty K Givin > Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:18 AM > > Eliron, count me in for next Shabbat?s Day of Prayer! I think it is a > great and much needed endeavor for all of us to enter in together! Got the > correction?June 12-13! It is appropriate that it begin on Erev Shabbat > (Fri. nite), when it is traditional in Jewish homes to bless our children at > the Shabbat table. Even though my children are all married with their own > children, I still ?bless my children? each Shabbat evening from a distance. > In fact I have a beautiful prayer that I say after candle lighting that > includes my children and grandchildren and all of HaShem?s children all over > the world?Many prayer books have beautiful prayers for after candle > lighting, but this one is especially lovely and has deep significance for > me. I will have to write it down and send it out in case some of you might > want to include it as part of your Shabbat prayers. > > > > Shavua tov, > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of * > carlson_john at bellsouth.net > *Sent:* Saturday, June 06, 2009 10:54 AM > *To:* Dialogue > *Subject:* [Dialogue] Living the Shema. > > > > Hey all, > > > > I spoke with Kim yesterday evening, she is having some technical problems > with her computer and probably won't be back on line until tomorrow night. > We wanted to move forward a little bit with the idea she had about living > the Shema. She previously asked that we set aside Tammuz 17 (July 8-9) as a > day prayer and teaching (for our children and others). > > > > We wanted to precede that with a day of prayer for all of us to seek > guidance from HaShem on ways to reach out to our children and others with > Torah truth. So I volunteered to send out this notice for her asking that > we set aside Sivan 21 (June 13-14), which is next Shabbat for this day of > prayer. The Parashah portion for that day is B'ha'alotkha (When You Set > Up..) which is about setting up the seven lamps of the tabernacle. > > > > What say you? > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/e72ec41e/attachment.html From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 18:12:29 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:12:29 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: <4A2C32FC.3000107@mts.net> References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> <060720090327.6341.4A2B3386000D70C6000018C522230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <4A2C32FC.3000107@mts.net> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906071612g119f75cfvf3b2968d1f6de5a5@mail.gmail.com> Cornie, Thank you for letting us know. I will be praying for Tina. Maybe she would like taking a look at some of the articles on the ROF site. Kim On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Cornie Reimer wrote: > Thank you John > Cornie > > > carlson_john at bellsouth.net wrote: > > Hey Cornie, > > I understand your sister's predicament, I will be praying for her. > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from Cornie Reimer : > -------------- > > Marvin and all > > Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like you are > mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. > > Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have kept this > from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, who has for years > tried to understand and sympathize with my obnoxious to Christianities, > views, but now that her very religious husband passed away within the last > year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. > > But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years of age, > this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on her nerves. She > thrived on me being there for her in her bereavement and lonesomeness. Yet > she has her 10 very much Christian children, and children's children. I was > trying to be very careful what to share with her, yet she was complaining > that I had so many people to share my faith with by e-mail etc. And she had > so little. Than I gave her a copy of James book on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC > FAITH. Now it seems like that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me > on the phone one day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO > NOW? She can not dare to share it with any of her family. I think she has > two preachers if not more as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize > with her, for the loss of her husband. But even though she was now freed up > from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain of a family > bond under the same title!!!!! > > So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, please > pray for her to know how to face life under her present predicament. I told > her she didn't have to believe what seemed to convict her that life from > here on would have to be without Jesus, on whom she had so much tried to > just take all of her burdens and stress. > > One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the book "The > Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite enthused about it. > So she got the idea, if i would send this one back to her, she would offer > it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find out what would happen. > Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a tooo heavy burden, to ease it off > her shoulder, just too heavy for her alone. I am afraid that might almost > react like coming up as a suicide bomber!!! > > I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but encouraged > her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we read of in * Isa 43:11 > I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.* But I also > told her maybe it would be a great idea to share that book with her > son-in-law!!! > > Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One way > might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some of you dear > ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in time eventually. I > could share what you might answer me on this letter with her, and see if > she would like to have an e-mail once in a while from whom she might > choose. I know this is going to be very tender and touchy. She is just > waiting for a Messiah to come and take us all away to higher ground. There > is just too much at stake to wait much longer for some kind of relief to > come for her. Her family have a lot of health problems as well. > > May Hashem bless you all. > > Cornie > > > > > mhyde wrote: > > > > > > > > I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because > there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the > south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are not > interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks > with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. > Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church > are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse > and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue > scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have > learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail > are like the ole cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then > switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the > trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be > willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites > are from other countries and not form America. > > > > But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and > they seem to be growing. Just kidding. > > > > In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this > on to them? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call who he will and open > blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the > next generation? > > > > I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 > valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last > girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with > Jesus Christ and guess what?? someone controlling the sound turned it up > and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire > for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole > sermon??. It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, > when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five > years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her > collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win > the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 > years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their > program going?.. but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the > lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal > experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and > scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the > way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and > sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to > say. What a waste of time?.. > > > > I have no answer?. I have thought on this subject often these past couple > of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about > 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But > everywhere I look around me I don?t see anybody batting that good with this > young generation(less then 30) maybe, I?m missing something?.. but I?m > believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples > attention. > > > > I?m done venting?? but still with the question of how do we reach this > young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most > interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. > > > > Shalom, Ya?ll > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [ > mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] > *On Behalf Of *kim alvarado > *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Dialogue] Living the Shema > > > > I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed > under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" > > > > Eliron, > > > > I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should > focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. > In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking > to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart > for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following > HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the > lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us > how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have > told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our > community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn > together." > > > > BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are > a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need > more. > > > > > > In love, > > Kim > > - Hide quoted text - > > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, wrote: > > - Hide quoted text - > > Hey James and all, > > > > We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple > Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up > periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of > this awakening. > > > > Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in > prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be > decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very > appropriate approach. > > > > I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks > like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of > the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others > out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not > please say so. > > > > But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out > fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall > into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to > elaborate on that. > > > > What are y'all's thoughts on this? > > > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/328f803b/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Sun Jun 7 19:32:59 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 19:32:59 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> Message-ID: <4A2C5C3B.6000102@mts.net> Thank you Pat and all who have been praying for my sister, I just waited to send this off Pat, since I was hoping to hear from my sister again, which i have now, but sorry to say, she is on an anti- depressant drug right now and has a real struggle right now. I took her out for a meal when she was at her daughters place not far from here a week ago, and she hardly ate anything. I sent her some of your e-mails this morning. But i have not been able to know how she took them. I will let you know when i hear more. Thank you for the prayers. Cornie patricia robbins wrote: > Cornie, > > Will certainly be praying for your sister, Tina, as well as her > son-in-law, that they will be set free to cleave to our One and > Only Savior, the G-d of Avraham, Yitzchak and Ya'acov. It's wonderful > and encouraging to know that you are reaching out to these family > members, and that they are hearing. I will remember to pray Is. 43:11 > especially for Tina as you have said that she will learn to cast all > her burdens on Him, and Him alone. > > > I, even I, am the L-RD, and beside Me there is no savior. > > Isaiah 43:11 > > > Shavua tov, Dear Friend, > > Avigail/Pat > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:18:46 -0500 > From: cormary at mts.net > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request > > Marvin and all > > Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like you > are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. > > Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have kept > this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, who has > for years tried to understand and sympathize with my obnoxious to > Christianities, views, but now that her very religious husband > passed away within the last year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" > supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. > > But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years of > age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on her > nerves. She thrived on me being there for her in her bereavement and > lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very much Christian children, and > children's children. I was trying to be very careful what to share > with her, yet she was complaining that I had so many people to share > my faith with by e-mail etc. And she had so little. Than I gave her a > copy of James book on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems like > that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me on the phone one > day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO NOW? She > can not dare to share it with any of her family. I think she has two > preachers if not more as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize > with her, for the loss of her husband. But even though she was now > freed up from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain > of a family bond under the same title!!!!! > > So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, > please pray for her to know how to face life under her present > predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe what seemed to > convict her that life from here on would have to be without Jesus, on > whom she had so much tried to just take all of her burdens and stress. > > One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the book > "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite enthused > about it. So she got the idea, if i would send this one back to her, > she would offer it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find > out what would happen. Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a tooo > heavy burden, to ease it off her shoulder, just too heavy for her > alone. I am afraid that might almost react like coming up as a suicide > bomber!!! > > I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but > encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we read of > in /* Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no > saviour.*/ But I also told her maybe it would be a great idea to share > that book with her son-in-law!!! > > Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One way > might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some of you > dear ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in time > eventually. I could share what you might answer me on this letter > with her, and see if she would like to have an e-mail once in a while > from whom she might choose. I know this is going to be very tender > and touchy. She is just waiting for a Messiah to come and take us all > away to higher ground. There is just too much at stake to wait much > longer for some kind of relief to come for her. Her family have a lot > of health problems as well. > > May Hashem bless you all. > > Cornie > > > > > mhyde wrote: > > > > > > > > I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. > Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from > a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, > funda ?mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts > form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and > they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a > few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are > content with were they are. I have thought about going to > jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers > will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is > different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my > part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette > commercial?? they would rather fight then switch. I guess I > have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, > they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be > willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross > web sites are from other countries and not form America. > > > > But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation > program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. > > > > In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we > pass this on to them? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call > who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do > we pass our faith on to the next generation? > > > > I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their > were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their > speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her > salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what?? > someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear > every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, > and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole > sermon??. It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, > Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she > will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 > semester away form finished her collage degree. She is > considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for > Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 > years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to > keep their program going?.. but as we get older many of us see > the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. > We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my > zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky > enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know > many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting > there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to > say. What a waste of time?.. > > > > I have no answer?. I have thought on this subject often these > past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? > My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is > some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don?t see > anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then > 30) maybe, I?m missing something?.. but I?m believing that > Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. > > > > I?m done venting?? but still with the question of how do we > reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out > there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a > unique story. > > > > Shalom, Ya?ll > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *kim alvarado > *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Dialogue] Living the Shema > > > > I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting > posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" > > > > Eliron, > > > > I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we > should focus on our families first...especially our children who > are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily > life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and > when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass > that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's > commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the > lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children > ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. > HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be > alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your > will that our children may grow and learn together." > > > > BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. > We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our > children, we need more. > > > > > > In love, > > Kim > > - Hide quoted text - > > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, > wrote: > > - Hide quoted text - > > Hey James and all, > > > > We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at > Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has > been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware > (especially our children) of this awakening. > > > > Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective > time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" > time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's > a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. > > > > I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that > even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's > calling His people out of the nations is something very > different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure > if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please > say so. > > > > But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He > will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are > not careful, we will fall into the same traps that > Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on > that. > > > > What are y'all's thoughts on this? > > > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/c2971754/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Sun Jun 7 19:49:55 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 17:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request Message-ID: <814443.61758.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Shalom Cornie, ? I have not written to let you know my prayers are also with your sister.? I can so relate to her situation so I will continue to be a prayer partner on her behalf.? Thank you for sharing. ? Susan --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Cornie Reimer wrote: From: Cornie Reimer Subject: Re: [Dialogue] new prayer request To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:32 PM Thank you Pat and all who have been praying for my sister, I just waited to send this off Pat, since I was hoping to hear from my sister again, which i have now, but sorry to say, she is on an anti- depressant drug right now and has a real struggle right now. I took her out for a meal when she was at her daughters place not far from here a week ago, and she hardly ate anything. I sent her some of your e-mails this morning. But i have not been able to know how she took them. I will let you know when i hear more. Thank you for the prayers. Cornie patricia robbins wrote: #yiv614271164 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv614271164 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Cornie, ? Will certainly be praying for your sister,?Tina, as well as her son-in-law, that they will be set free to?cleave to?our One and Only?Savior, the G-d of Avraham, Yitzchak and?Ya'acov.? It's wonderful and encouraging to know that you are reaching out to?these family members, and that they are hearing.? I will remember to pray Is. 43:11 especially?for?Tina as you have said that she will learn to cast all her burdens on Him, and Him alone. ? I, even I, am the L-RD, and beside Me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:11? Shavua tov, Dear?Friend, ? Avigail/Pat ? Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:18:46 -0500 From: cormary at mts.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request Marvin and all Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like you are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have kept this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, who has for years tried to understand and sympathize with my obnoxious to Christianities, views, but now that her? very religious husband? passed away within the last year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years of age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on her nerves.? She thrived on me being there for her in her bereavement and lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very much Christian children, and children's children. I was trying to be very careful what to share with her, yet she was complaining that I had so many people to share my faith with by e-mail etc. And she had so little. Than I gave her a copy of James book? on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems like that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me on the phone one day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO NOW? She can not dare to share it with any of her family. I think she has two preachers if not more as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize with her, for the loss of her husband. But even though she was now freed up from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain of a family bond under the same title!!!!! So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, please pray for her to know how to face life under her present predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe what seemed to convict her that life from here on would have to be without Jesus, on whom she had so much tried to just take all of her burdens and stress. One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the book? "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite enthused about it. So she got the idea, if i would send this one back to her, she would offer it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find out what would happen. Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a tooo heavy burden, to ease it off her shoulder, just too heavy for her alone. I am afraid that might almost react like coming up as a suicide bomber!!! I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we read of in? Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. But I also told her maybe it would be a great idea to share that book with her son-in-law!!! Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One way might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some of you dear ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in time eventually. I could? share what? you might answer me on this letter with her, and see if she would like to? have an e-mail once in a while from? whom she might choose. I know this is going to be very tender and touchy. She is just waiting? for a Messiah to come and take us all away to higher ground. There is just too much at stake to wait? much longer for some kind of relief to come for her. Her family have a lot of health problems as well. May Hashem bless you all. Cornie ? ? mhyde wrote: #yiv614271164 .ExternalClass .EC_shape {} #yiv614271164 .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, #yiv614271164 .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, #yiv614271164 .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} #yiv614271164 .ExternalClass a:link, #yiv614271164 .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv614271164 .ExternalClass a:visited, #yiv614271164 .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv614271164 .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle19 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} _filtered #yiv614271164 {} #yiv614271164 .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 {} ? ? ? I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic.?? Because there are very few who want to listen.? Remember one from a family!?? In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus.?? Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved.?? Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are.?? I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them.? But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school.?? In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then switch.??? I guess I have a bad attitude.?? But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in.?? I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America.???? ? But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation ?program and they seem to be growing.? Just kidding. ? In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them?? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses.?? ???How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? ? I went to my youngest daughters? HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what??? someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute ?sermon.?? She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA.?? I sat and listen to the same ole sermon??.?? It rings so hollow.? I looked at the wife an said,? Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years.??? ??Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree.? She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus.?? If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years.?? My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going?..? but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception.? We then opt out.?? My personal experience was that I turned? my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough ?to meet some very good teachers along the way.? But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say.?? What a waste of time?.. ? I have no answer?.? I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years.? How can we reach this younger generation??? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other.? But everywhere I look around me I don?t see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then? 30)??? maybe, I?m missing something?..? but I?m believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention.?? ? I?m done venting???? but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message??? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint,? you have a unique story. ? Shalom, Ya?ll ? ? From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema ? I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" ? Eliron, ? I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. ?In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... ?If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. ?My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. ? HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." ? BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. ?We are a community...a family. ?However, when it comes to our children, we need more. ? ? In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM,??wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, ? We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai.? One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children)?of this awakening. ? Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas.? I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. ? I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism.? In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out.? I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. ? But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into.? I don't think I need to elaborate on that. ? What are y'all's thoughts on this? ? -- Eliron/John.? "Be excellent to each other!"? Bill and Ted? _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/79dc3ac4/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 7 20:03:02 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 01:03:02 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. In-Reply-To: <1c8dbb6e0906071607p3e75505bp2e4395657a70c164@mail.gmail.com> References: <464316.52539.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1c8dbb6e0906071607p3e75505bp2e4395657a70c164@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <060820090103.19618.4A2C63450004881700004CA222243651029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> You're welcome Hannah. Welcome back, I guess your computer is fixed. Hope you had a good shabbat. Folks are beginning to respond to the idea, let's see what HaShem does. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from kim alvarado : -------------- Eliron, Thank you for posting in my place. I agree that this is a good day/date to prayer for our children. Kim On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Pamela Barbera wrote: I will also pray as I am able on that day Betty, Shalom, Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: susan strickland To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 3:31 PM Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Betty, I would love it if you could post your blessings for your children as I am in much the same position as you. My kids are all grown and I now have 7 grandchildren which I would love to pray for in a special way on Shabbat. I will be out of town next Shabbat but will pray as time permits which suprisingly HaShem seems to work out. Thank You, Susan --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:18 AM Eliron, count me in for next Shabbat?s Day of Prayer! I think it is a great and much needed endeavor for all of us to enter in together! Got the correction?June 12-13! It is appropriate that it begin on Erev Shabbat (Fri. nite), when it is traditional in Jewish homes to bless our children at the Shabbat table. Even though my children are all married with their own children, I still ?bless my children? each Shabbat evening from a distance. In fact I have a beautiful prayer that I say after candle lighting that includes my children and grandchildren and all of HaShem?s children all over the world?Many prayer books have beautiful prayers for after candle lighting, but this one is especially lovely and has deep significance for me. I will have to write it down and send it out in case some of you might want to include it as part of your Shabbat prayers. Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 10:54 AM To: Dialogue Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Hey all, I spoke with Kim yesterday evening, she is having some technical problems with her computer and probably won't be back on line until tomorrow night. We wanted to move forward a little bit with the idea she had about living the Shema. She previously asked that we set aside Tammuz 17 (July 8-9) as a day prayer and teaching (for our children and others). We wanted to precede that with a day of prayer for all of us to seek guidance from HaShem on ways to reach out to our children and others with Torah truth. So I volunteered to send out this notice for her asking that we set aside Sivan 21 (June 13-14), which is next Shabbat for this day of prayer. The Parashah portion for that day is B'ha'alotkha (When You Set Up..) which is about setting up the seven lamps of the tabernacle. What say you? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/2e6cceb7/attachment.html From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 20:25:58 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 20:25:58 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom In-Reply-To: <768836.86724.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <768836.86724.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906071825w27a0eac3r7e8ef9cc52e76e10@mail.gmail.com> yes, yes, yes On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 12:21 AM, susan strickland wrote: > Margie and all chaverim I say ditto. > > Susan > > --- On *Sat, 6/6/09, carlson_john at bellsouth.net < > carlson_john at bellsouth.net>* wrote: > > > From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Shabbat Shalom > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 11:13 PM > > > Thank you Margie, > > While I'm late in responding, I feel the same way. > > Shalom my friend. > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from Margie Creech : > -------------- > > Shabbat Shalom Everyone, > > I don't know about all of you but I am so blessed by each one of you. You > are all so dear to my heart. I pray that each one of you will be blessed > beyond measure. My heart is so filled with joy being a part of this group. > You all have influenced my journey so much and I just had to write this and > tell you all how much I love you. May the L-ord bless each one of you with > a wonderful Shabbat! > > Margie > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/620bd739/attachment.html From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 20:30:24 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 20:30:24 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] "Winners & Losers: The Importance of Morale" In-Reply-To: References: <855590370906070701l4750f97aocbab1cfdc1a4e638@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906071830k5b497995m8e1ad16254da977@mail.gmail.com> Very, very good. We must never give in and never give up. Kim On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 9:22 AM, patricia robbins < patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com> wrote: > "NEVER GIVE IN. NEVER GIVE IN. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, > NEVER".................................AAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!!!!!!!! > > Keep 'em comin' Hanoch! > > Avigail > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:01:13 -0400 > From: youngbarzel at gmail.com > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Dialogue] "Winners & Losers: The Importance of Morale" > > > Shavua tov L'Kulam, > > Below is a brief piece that Rav Lazer Brody wrote last week...it's > weighed very heavily on my mind this past week. Particularly in light of > the impending American sellout of Israel....and there's SO MUCH that can be > said about THAT. Be strong, and have courage.... > * Hanoch* > ** > Winners and Losers: The importance of morale. One must never underestimate the power of morale, especially in a spiritual > war like the kind we're fighting today, on the verge of redemption. > Let me take you back to Britain of 1940. Hitler's Luftwaffe was pounding > the UK; all of London was in bomb shelters. On September 7th, 1940, a > massive 330 tons of bombs were dropped on London. The bombing continued for > 57 consecutive nights. > Britain was sorely licking its wounds. Yet, Winston Churchill addressed the > nation and said, "We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we > shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight > with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our > Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall > fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the > streets, we shall fight in the hills; *we shall never surrender!*" > A year later, Churchill said, "Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, > never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, > except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never > yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." The British, > strengthened by the words of their leader, held a stiff upper lip and became > winners. > How I wish an Israeli leader would tell the world, "We shall never > surrender...we shall never give up one tiny letter of the Torah's > commandments and principles!" > The more we stand on our convictions to G-d and his Torah, the more we > shall defeat the forces of *epikursis* in the world that are out to > destroy us in a spiritual war to the death. By strengthening ourselves daily > in the service of Hashem, we are winners. Losers are the ones who sacrifice > their principles under pressure. We shall fight for the principles of Torah > whatever the cost may be. With Hashem on our side, our morale is forever > high. Faith will win - soon. > > > Sunday, 31 May 2009 at > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090607/5e7a7da5/attachment.html From rossknichols at me.com Sun Jun 7 23:24:18 2009 From: rossknichols at me.com (Ross Nichols) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 23:24:18 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] New Email Address Message-ID: <380951EA-BA20-4220-B6A3-E4FB5A796593@me.com> I have a new email address. Please change your address books. My new email is rossknichols at me.com. Shalom From rossknichols at me.com Sun Jun 7 23:26:37 2009 From: rossknichols at me.com (Ross Nichols) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 23:26:37 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Naso Message-ID: <7FDC358A-83C9-4185-9725-EFE3F0D4CBFC@me.com> My class on Naso and the dialogue portion of our service are up on my site. www.rootsoffaith.org. Shalom From bkgivin at verizon.net Mon Jun 8 00:15:39 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:15:39 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Cornie, Duplicate emails In-Reply-To: <4A2BDDBA.2010709@mts.net> References: <4A2BDDBA.2010709@mts.net> Message-ID: Thank you, Cornie for your input. I was happy to respond to your prayer request regarding your sister Tina as I am sure were the others. Hopefully she will get back to normal pretty soon and be able to appreciate all the love and prayers that are reaching out to her! Please let us know how she is doing. How about Jamie? Thanks you for your prayers and good wishes for my finding a job.no news yet. My love, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Cornie Reimer Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:33 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Duplicate emails Betty I had this problem for a while too, that is if it was the same problem, starting when I changed my e-mail address after I had alerted people to my new address, while i was still on both systems. They were double till I got totally disconnected with my former Internet provider. For a while I was on both of them at the same time. Betty I am so glad you and others responded to my prayer request for my sister Tina. I called her this morning and asked her if it was alright that I had requested prayer for her from you of the dialogue group, and she responded favorably, I told her i would send her some of you ladies messages and she sounded excited about that. Hoping your job application will work for you Betty. Cornie Betty K Givin wrote: Friends, I do not know what is going on with my "duplicate" emails. I will have to call Verizon on Monday to see what's up because I keep getting this weird message that my message will not be sent. I close the message and then find that it sends it twice. Anybody else ever have this problem? Elisheva/Betty _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/f2fac66d/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Mon Jun 8 02:37:29 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:37:29 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24] Message-ID: <4A2CBFB9.1030308@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/c3e3acd7/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Betty Eddy Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24 Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 15:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Size: 25394 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/c3e3acd7/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Mon Jun 8 02:37:38 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:37:38 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] new prayer request] Message-ID: <4A2CBFC2.7090601@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/5b6b136b/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Cornie Reimer Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:18:46 -0500 Size: 35090 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/5b6b136b/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Mon Jun 8 02:37:46 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:37:46 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.] Message-ID: <4A2CBFCA.2010009@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/a3878dd2/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 15:54:19 +0000 Size: 6067 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/a3878dd2/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Mon Jun 8 02:37:53 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:37:53 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew] Message-ID: <4A2CBFD1.1030005@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/978dec47/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Catherine Cashmore" Subject: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:04:24 +1000 Size: 17523 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/978dec47/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Mon Jun 8 02:51:54 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:51:54 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Obama's speech - from the Spectator in the UK] Message-ID: <4A2CC31A.6030407@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/97f5068d/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: moz-screenshot-31.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9800 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/97f5068d/attachment.jpg -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Hanoch Young Subject: [Dialogue] Obama's speech - from the Spectator in the UK Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:38:09 -0400 Size: 23593 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/97f5068d/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Mon Jun 8 02:58:27 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:58:27 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] "Winners & Losers: The Importance of Morale"] Message-ID: <4A2CC4A3.5030701@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/bf909af1/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Hanoch Young Subject: [Dialogue] "Winners & Losers: The Importance of Morale" Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:01:13 -0400 Size: 9552 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/bf909af1/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Mon Jun 8 03:33:03 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:33:03 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] WHAT THE CHINESE DISCOVERED ABOUT TEFILLIN ..just amazing] Message-ID: <4A2CCCBF.4070507@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/e3382b99/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: patricia robbins Subject: [Dialogue] WHAT THE CHINESE DISCOVERED ABOUT TEFILLIN ..just amazing Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:35:16 -0400 Size: 62869 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/e3382b99/attachment.eml From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Mon Jun 8 06:33:39 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 07:33:39 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: <4A2C5C3B.6000102@mts.net> References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> <4A2C5C3B.6000102@mts.net> Message-ID: Cornie, I'm so sorry to hear about Tina's depression. May HaShem comfort and strengthen her. Thankfully you are there for her, just as she has been there for you. I know she loves and appreciates you very much, even when she is so sad it is hard to express feelings. I will continue to pray - for both of you Dear Ones. Love, Pat Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:32:59 -0500 From: cormary at mts.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] new prayer request Thank you Pat and all who have been praying for my sister, I just waited to send this off Pat, since I was hoping to hear from my sister again, which i have now, but sorry to say, she is on an anti- depressant drug right now and has a real struggle right now. I took her out for a meal when she was at her daughters place not far from here a week ago, and she hardly ate anything. I sent her some of your e-mails this morning. But i have not been able to know how she took them. I will let you know when i hear more. Thank you for the prayers. Cornie patricia robbins wrote: Cornie, Will certainly be praying for your sister, Tina, as well as her son-in-law, that they will be set free to cleave to our One and Only Savior, the G-d of Avraham, Yitzchak and Ya'acov. It's wonderful and encouraging to know that you are reaching out to these family members, and that they are hearing. I will remember to pray Is. 43:11 especially for Tina as you have said that she will learn to cast all her burdens on Him, and Him alone. I, even I, am the L-RD, and beside Me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:11 Shavua tov, Dear Friend, Avigail/Pat Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:18:46 -0500 From: cormary at mts.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request Marvin and all Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like you are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have kept this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, who has for years tried to understand and sympathize with my obnoxious to Christianities, views, but now that her very religious husband passed away within the last year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years of age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on her nerves. She thrived on me being there for her in her bereavement and lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very much Christian children, and children's children. I was trying to be very careful what to share with her, yet she was complaining that I had so many people to share my faith with by e-mail etc. And she had so little. Than I gave her a copy of James book on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems like that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me on the phone one day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO NOW? She can not dare to share it with any of her family. I think she has two preachers if not more as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize with her, for the loss of her husband. But even though she was now freed up from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain of a family bond under the same title!!!!! So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, please pray for her to know how to face life under her present predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe what seemed to convict her that life from here on would have to be without Jesus, on whom she had so much tried to just take all of her burdens and stress. One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the book "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite enthused about it. So she got the idea, if i would send this one back to her, she would offer it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find out what would happen. Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a tooo heavy burden, to ease it off her shoulder, just too heavy for her alone. I am afraid that might almost react like coming up as a suicide bomber!!! I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we read of in Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. But I also told her maybe it would be a great idea to share that book with her son-in-law!!! Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One way might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some of you dear ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in time eventually. I could share what you might answer me on this letter with her, and see if she would like to have an e-mail once in a while from whom she might choose. I know this is going to be very tender and touchy. She is just waiting for a Messiah to come and take us all away to higher ground. There is just too much at stake to wait much longer for some kind of relief to come for her. Her family have a lot of health problems as well. May Hashem bless you all. Cornie mhyde wrote: I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form America. But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess what?? someone controlling the sound turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon??. It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their program going?.. but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to say. What a waste of time?.. I have no answer?. I have thought on this subject often these past couple of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look around me I don?t see anybody batting that good with this young generation(less then 30) maybe, I?m missing something?.. but I?m believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples attention. I?m done venting?? but still with the question of how do we reach this young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. Shalom, Ya?ll From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" Eliron, I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn together." BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need more. In love, Kim - Hide quoted text - On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, wrote: - Hide quoted text - Hey James and all, We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very appropriate approach. I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate on that. What are y'all's thoughts on this? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/48ee7457/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 06:48:46 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 07:48:46 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer... Message-ID: <855590370906080448l2f550170x27054642db2bdace@mail.gmail.com> Boker tov L'Kulam, I just saw this note, which I think helps connect our prayers with the appropriate visualization; making it more meaningful, and hopefully, even more effective then they could have been! It's from the Mystical Paths website... *Hanoch* '??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??" ????? ?"?,?" (91 days..) "Let us go up an inherit the Land of Israel, for we are surely able" Numbers 13:30 * Prayer *by Reb Gutman Locks at Mystical Paths Prayer has to become genuine, alive. One very small but meaningful gesture is, when saying the words, ?You open Your hand and satisfy the desire of every living thing,?[i] to turn your palms upward as if you are trying to receive what it is He is giving. Why are you facing your palms upward? Because you truly believe that G-d?s hand is open and He is trying to give you something. And you are opening your hand heavenward because you want to receive His gifts. This shows that you really believe the words that you are saying. There are many religious Jews who can tell you where every prayer is written and many can even repeat them by heart, but there are very few who can tell you what they actually mean. Often people ask what can be done to improve their concentration during prayer. They complain that their minds keep wandering off the subject onto other totally unrelated things. Really, there is only one thing that you can do when this happens. As soon as you realize that you are off the subject, gently return. Again and again, quietly return to what you want to be concentrating on. This is like a weightlifter who continually picks up his weights, again and again. Each time you return to the subject you get a little stronger. There is another easy thing you can do that will help make your prayers more interesting, and actually more effective. Whatever you pray for, briefly imagine it coming into being. This means that when you are davening the Amidah (the standing, silent prayers), as you are finishing one of the 19 established prayers, such as, ?Blessed are You . . . Who rebuilds Jerusalem,? or ??Who heals the sick,? briefly picture what you are praying for to happen. In these two cases you could picture Jerusalem, including the Third Temple, made entirely out of brightly shining gold, floating down from Heaven settling over and filling the present-day Jerusalem. Or, when praying for the sick, picture the sick jumping out of their wheelchairs, throwing away their crutches, and dancing down the street. *?Think good and it will be good.?* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/7cd59a25/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Mon Jun 8 06:50:35 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 07:50:35 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew] In-Reply-To: <4A2CBFD1.1030005@westnet.com.au> References: <4A2CBFD1.1030005@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Joe, I'm entirely in agreement with what you have said here, and you expressed it with all the fervor I feel. Thank you for putting what is in my heart into words for all to see. We owe so very much to our brother, Judah. He has been the faithful one of HaShem, who has held the banner aloft, waving it galantly, that we might find our way Home. My gratitude knows no bounds. Avigail Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:37:53 +1000 From: jid at westnet.com.au To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew] Shalom Catherine, thank you for posting this article. Whilst it never ceases to amaze us , the extent and the viciousness of the deaths during the Shoah pale into insignificance when we look at the whole history of antisemitism. Six million perished and possibly more when you consider the article posted. We know that the Nazis were extremely diligent in the keeping of records. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/14/60minutes/main2267927.shtml >From the persecution of Avraham by Nimrod to the death of all Hebrew males in Egypt during the slavery period, from destruction of both temples to the crusades, from the Inquisition to the pogroms, there is a trail of Israelite blood. Only HaShem would know the true number of innocent souls that died for the crime of being born Jewish and sanctified the Name of HaShem by their very lives. HaShem has three distinct physical manifestations of His Essence and Spiritual Being, His Torah or Holy Word. His chosen people. His chosen land.These three are one. You cannot separate them. For example when the people are exiled the land will not yield its produce. When the people return the land is revived and yields its produce. There has been a concerted effort over the past 2000 years to attack these three fundamental aspects of Divine physical reality by the other religions and gentile nations. The Torah has been attacked by being made redundant, old, super ceded, irrelevant , nailed to a cross, a curse ,legalistic and replaced by the NT and Koran. The chosen people have been replaced by Christians and or Muslims. Replacement and displacement theology has run rampant. The Church becomes the New Israel or Muslims have elected themselves as the "chosen ones." Traditional Christianity viewed the land with disdain. The true Jerusalem was heavenly. Islam viewed the land as an item to conquer or subjugate to Allah. So these past 2000 years have witnessed the vitriolic attacks and murders of hundred of millions of which the Shoah is only the tip of the iceberg. I am afraid that we have not learned the lessons of the past and are destined to repeat them. My mate Eli sent me this link and asked me to post it for you all as Rabbi Noach Weinberg, of blessed memory, challenges all the hard questions with to the point answers. It underscores much of what I wrote above. He just sent it to me. Amazing timing. http://www.hidabroot.org/MediaDetail.asp?MediaID=9139 I feel it in my heart to pray for all the victims of antisemitism throughout the millenia, the unknown ones, the ones who were left to rot, the unidentified ones, the ones we never heard of...... somewhat like the memorials to the unknown soldiers who died in combat. We owe it to HaShem that their memory is never forgotten and the sacrifice they made on our behalf to ensure that we had a roots of faith to return to. I , for one , feel unworthy and lacking merit to have the Holy Torah handed to me on a platter by my Jewish brothers and sisters who sanctified the Name of HaShem with their lives. I was never evicted from my home, never had my possessions confiscated, told to wear a yellow badge of shame, forced to live in a ghetto, asked to put my neck on the line for my beliefs. All in all, I am only standing on a planet that has drunk plenty of innocent Jewish blood ,and having said that, I only stand because of the incredible MERCY / RACHAMIM of HASHEM. No more ..... no else. Baruch HaShem, l'Olam Chasdo!!!!! Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: chcashmore at hotmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:04:24 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew I hesitated in posting this because it is so heartbreaking and emotional to read. However I think it's important simply because of the warnings we are all seeing in the news with Obama and Europe which lead me to believe that the articles that Hanoch has posted about returning to Israel are the beginning of our call to get out and return to HaShem. Just thoughts, but things I ponder on... AS-EU:090604:(05-JUN-09):Extent of Nazi Camps Far Greater Than Realized Decade-Long Study by Holocaust Museum Scholars Could Alter Public Understanding By Monica Hesse Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, June 4, 2009 A little more than a decade ago, researchers at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum decided to create an encyclopedia of concentration camps. They assumed the finished work would be massive, featuring a staggering 5,000 to 7,000 camps and ghettos. They underestimated by 15,000. Their ultimate count of more than 20,000 camps -- which they reached after a year of research -- is far more than most scholars had known existed and might reshape public understanding of the scope of the Holocaust itself. "What's going to happen is that the mental universe of how scholars operate is going to change," said Steven Katz, director of Boston University's Elie Wiesel Center for Judaic Studies. "Instead of thinking of main death camps, people are going to understand that this was a continent-wide phenomenon." The Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos: 1933-1945 "is the first major reference work for Holocaust studies since . . . the fall of the U.S.S.R." and the opening of many European archives, says Paul Shapiro, director of the museum's Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies. As a result, more information was available to researchers than had ever been before. Scholars chased footnotes in old books and used Internet mailing lists to find historians who might possess tiny pieces of the puzzle. Volume 1 is scheduled for release June 12. Most of the sites included in the encyclopedia were known, says Geoff Megargee, the encyclopedia project director. "But they were known to one or two people. . . . Sometimes there would be just one person who had done research on one prison." The first volume focuses on SS-run camps and contains more than 1,100 entries written by some 230 contributors. The Holocaust's horror always has been its precision and vastness: how many people died, how many people were complicit, how many countries fell to the Nazi regime. The enormous number of sites catalogued in the museum's encyclopedia reveals that for every commonly known camp -- Auschwitz and Dachau, Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen -- there are literally dozens more that the average reader has likely never heard of. The book is organized as a traditional encyclopedia; each camp or ghetto receives its own alphabetic entry, some with photographs or maps. Few people might realize, Megargee says, that each of the 23 main camps had sub-camps -- nearly 900 sub-camps, each placed into categories with chillingly euphemistic names. There were "care facilities for foreign children," where pregnant prisoners would be sent for forced abortions. There were Germanization camps, where foreign youth with desirable racial features would be indoctrinated. There were youth protection camps for the rebellious German teens who'd been caught listening to jazz. In his decade of working on the project, Megargee says that he never stopped learning of new atrocities or personal stories. "There was a woman who was a professional singer in the barracks" in a sub-camp of Flossenburg, he recalls, "who sang 'Ave Maria' for [her fellow prisoners] one Christmas. She moved the barracks to tears, then a guard overheard her and came and knocked her teeth out." Her story is recounted in the entry on the Wilischthal sub-camp. The book reveals "a complex ecology of coordinated devastation," says Henry Knight, director of Keene State College's Cohen Center for Holocaust Studies in New Hampshire. He has previewed the book, and sees it as particularly useful for college students or serious Holocaust researchers, but adds that "anyone looking through this volume is going to be astounded at how vast the camp system was. . . . It's simply not possible to think of these activities as an aberration when you see all of the information." Shapiro says that the sheer number of camps may end one of the lingering protestations surrounding the Holocaust -- that ordinary people knew nothing of the killing underway in their locales. "In most towns, there was some sort of prison, or holding area or place where people were victimized," Shapiro says. "Think about what this means. For anyone who thinks this took place out of sight of the average person, this shatters that mythology. There was one Auschwitz. There was one Treblinka. But there were 20,000 other camps spread through the rest of Europe." Says Shapiro: "What we are seeing in this project is that all of Europe was a camp." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/04b2c907/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Mon Jun 8 06:57:08 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 07:57:08 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] WHAT THE CHINESE DISCOVERED ABOUT TEFILLIN ..just amazing] In-Reply-To: <4A2CCCBF.4070507@westnet.com.au> References: <4A2CCCBF.4070507@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: It is interesting information. I'm just thankful that it was written and put in the Chinese Journal of Medicine, where so many would see it and perhaps stop, and think upon the Greatness of HaShem. Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 18:33:03 +1000 From: jid at westnet.com.au To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] WHAT THE CHINESE DISCOVERED ABOUT TEFILLIN ..just amazing] Shalom Avigail, thank you for this information on the tefelin. I found it very interesting. I would like to add that the Rabbis explain that the phylactery box is inscribed with the letter "Shin" ??, the kesher / knot forms the letter "Dalet" ? , whilst the end of the ribbon tie forms the letter "Yud" ?. This spells the word SHIN - DALET - YUD or "Shaddai" - one of the names of HaShem. It is interesting that this is repeated in the Sh'ma of Deuteronomy chapter 6. This is the seal of HaShem on the forehead in Ezekiel chapter 9. In the book of Revelation you also have the seal of HaShem versus the mark of the beast. The seal of HaShem is His name written on the foreheads of His bond servants. The mark of the beast is on the arm and or forehead in opposition to Deuteronomy 6 where we are to love HaShem with all our hearts, all our souls and all our might. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:35:16 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] WHAT THE CHINESE DISCOVERED ABOUT TEFILLIN ..just amazing A friend sent this to me today. Thought I'd pass it on. Avigail UNBELIEVABLE WHAT THE CHINESE DISCOVERED ABOUT TEFFILIN Who of us doesn't know about Chinese Acupuncture? The Chinese discovered the medical treatment using needles to heal when they are inserted at certain points in the body. The Chinese have mapped out and named all the points of the body du 24 - du 70 - du 23, and so on. And the Chinese Journal of Medicine - to which everyone important in the field of Acupuncture subscribes - published an amazing article, absolutely astonishing. The main article in volume number 70 of the Journal deals solely with the Tefillin of the Jewish People. The article conclusively establishes that the contact and pressure points covered by the hand and head Tefillin are exactly those points at which the Acupuncture needles are inserted in order "to increase spirituality and to purify thoughts." The non-Jewish author of the article puts it that the points covered by the Tefillin are those where the Acupuncture needles are inserted. Reverse the statement to read: The Acupuncture needles are inserted in those points, which are exactly where a Jew puts on Tefillin. The article details all of the Acupuncture points which are the same as the points-of-contact of the head Tefillin - front and back - as well as the points-of-contact of the hand Tefillin on the arm and hand. In the opinion of the expert who wrote the article, these are the only Acupuncture points that will achieve this result [to increase spirituality and to purify thoughts] which, in addition to following the Torah's command to place the Tefillin on the arm (hand) and head as a sign that HASHEM brought us out of Egypt with a strong hand, is likely the reason that Jews put on Tefillin. Absolutely e-mazing ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/18bb3751/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ATT00000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 37986 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/18bb3751/attachment.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ATT00001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 54 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/18bb3751/attachment.gif From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 07:08:24 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:08:24 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "The end of America's strategic alliance with Israel" Message-ID: <855590370906080508w275cdb73j824ce2bd56d31d22@mail.gmail.com> What else is there to say? All that's left (and I don't mean for the people on this list) is to choose sides. And, "..in the end, there can be only one..." *Hanoch* '??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??" ????? ?"?,?" (91 days..) "Let us go up an inherit the Land of Israel, for we are surely able" Numbers 13:30 *The End of America?s Strategic Alliance with Israel? *Caroline Glick June 04, 2009 >From an Israeli perspective, Pres. Barack Obama?s speech today in Cairo was deeply disturbing. Both rhetorically and programmatically, Obama?s speech was a renunciation of America?s strategic alliance with Israel. Rhetorically, Obama?s sugar coated the pathologies of the Islamic world ? from the tyranny that characterizes its regimes, to the misogyny, xenophobia, Jew hatred, and general intolerance that characterizes its societies. In so doing he made clear that his idea of pressing the restart button with the Islamic world involves erasing the moral distinctions between the Islamic world and the free world. In contrast, Obama?s perverse characterization of Israel ? of the sources of its legitimacy and of its behavior ? made clear that he shares the Arab world?s view that there is something basically illegitimate about the Jewish state. In 1922 the League of Nations mandated Great Britain to facilitate the reconstitution of the Jewish commonwealth in the Land of Israel on both sides of the Jordan River. The international community?s decision to work towards the reestablishment of Jewish sovereignty in Israel owed to its recognition of the Jewish people?s legal, historic, and moral rights to our homeland. Arab propaganda finds this basic and fundamental truth inconvenient. So for the past 60 years, the Arabs have been advancing the fiction that Israel?s existence owes solely to European guilt over the Holocaust. As far as the Arabs are concerned, the Jews have no legal, historic, or moral right to what the Arabs see as Islamic land. In his address, while Obama admonished the Arabs for their pervasive Jew hatred and Holocaust denial, he effectively accepted and legitimized their view that Israel owes its existence to the Holocaust when he said, ?the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history that cannot be denied,? and then went on to talk about the Holocaust. Just as abominably, Obama compared Israel to Southern slave owners and Palestinians to black slaves in the antebellum south. He used the Arab euphemism ?resistance? to discuss Palestinian terrorism, and generally ignored the fact that every Palestinian political faction is also a terrorist organization. In addition to his morally outrageous characterization of Israel and factually inaccurate account of its foundations, Obama struck out at the Jewish state through the two policies he outlined in his address. His first policy involves coercing Israel into barring all Jewish construction in Judea and Samaria (otherwise known as the West Bank), and Jerusalem. Obama claims that this policy will increase prospects for peace. But this is untrue. As Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas made clear in his Washington Post interview last week, Obama?s trenchant campaign against Jewish construction in these areas has convinced the Palestinians they have no reason to be flexible in their positions towards Israel. Indeed, Obama?s assault on Israeli construction and his unsubstantiated, bigoted claim that the presence of Jews in Judea, Samaria, and Jerusalem impedes progress towards peace ensures that there will be no agreement whatsoever between Israel and the Palestinians. After all, why would the Palestinians make a deal with Israel when they know that Obama will blame Israel for the absence of a peace agreement? Even more strategically devastating than his castigation of Israel as the villain in the Arab-Israel conflict is Obama?s stated policy towards Iran. In Cairo, Obama offered Iran nuclear energy in exchange for its nuclear-weapons program. This offer has been on the table since 2003 and has been repeatedly rejected by the Iranians. Indeed, they rejected it yet again last week. Obama must know that his policy will not lead to the hoped for change in Iran?s behavior. And since he must know this, the only rational explanation for his decision to adopt a policy he knows will fail is that he is comfortable with the idea of Iran becoming a nuclear power. And this is something that Israel cannot abide by. The only silver lining for Israelis from the president?s speech in Cairo and his general positions on the Middle East is that Obama has overplayed his hand. Far from bending to his will, a large majority of Israelis perceives Obama as a hostile force and has rallied in support of Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu against the administration. This public support gives Netanyahu the maneuver room he needs to take the actions that Israel needs to take to defend against the prospect of a nuclear armed Iran and to assert its national rights and to defend itself against Palestinian terrorists and other Arab and non-Arab anti-Semites who wish it ill. ? Caroline B. Glick is the senior fellow for Middle Eastern affairs at the Center for Security Policy and the senior contributing editor of The Jerusalem Post. http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YjdiMjk5ODk2OGYwYmRjNmRhYmNlZjFjNDljNTdkYTE= ============================================= Women For Israel's Tomorrow (Women in Green) POB 7352, Jerusalem 91072, Israel Tel: 972-2-624-9887 Fax: 972-2-624-5380 mailto:wfit2 at womeningreen.org http://www.womeningreen.org To subscribe to the Women in Green list, please send a blank email message to: list4-subscribe at womeningreen.org Check your spam filter for confirmation to reply to -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/aff2262c/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Mon Jun 8 07:29:47 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 07:29:47 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer... In-Reply-To: <855590370906080448l2f550170x27054642db2bdace@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370906080448l2f550170x27054642db2bdace@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A2D043B.50509@mts.net> Very meaningful, and just what I need personally Hanoch, thank you. I was aware of this, "to turn your palms upward as if you are trying to receive what it is He is giving." but it is a time when I really need it for my dear sister Tina, at her age to be able to grasp what she finds really a bit hard to change her lifetime faith in Jesus to all at once crumble, and than to face it as a widow with a big family who all believe what she has taught them all their life. I want to grasp the fact that she will get the truth established before she is done with her journey here, in true emuna, that will come from her knowing her maker, by direct connection to Him, and not by anything I try to get her to think. Cornie Hanoch Young wrote: > Boker tov L'Kulam, > > I just saw this note, which I think helps connect our prayers with > the appropriate visualization; making it more meaningful, and > hopefully, even more effective then they could have been! It's from > the Mystical Paths website... > > > */Hanoch/* > '??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??" ????? ?"?,?" > (91 days..) > "Let us go up an inherit the Land of Israel, for we are surely able" > Numbers 13:30 > > > * Prayer > *by Reb Gutman Locks at Mystical Paths > > Prayer has to become genuine, alive. One very small but meaningful > gesture is, when saying the words, ?You open Your hand and satisfy the > desire of every living thing,?[i] to turn your palms upward as if you > are trying to receive what it is He is giving. Why are you facing your > palms upward? Because you truly believe that G-d?s hand is open and He > is trying to give you something. And you are opening your hand > heavenward because you want to receive His gifts. This shows that you > really believe the words that you are saying. > > There are many religious Jews who can tell you where every prayer is > written and many can even repeat them by heart, but there are very few > who can tell you what they actually mean. Often people ask what can be > done to improve their concentration during prayer. They complain that > their minds keep wandering off the subject onto other totally > unrelated things. > Really, there is only one thing that you can do when this happens. As > soon as you realize that you are off the subject, gently return. Again > and again, quietly return to what you want to be concentrating on. > This is like a weightlifter who continually picks up his weights, > again and again. Each time you return to the subject you get a little > stronger. > > > There is another easy thing you can do that will help make your > prayers more interesting, and actually more effective. Whatever you > pray for, briefly imagine it coming into being. This means that when > you are davening the Amidah (the standing, silent prayers), as you are > finishing one of the 19 established prayers, such as, ?Blessed are You > . . . Who rebuilds Jerusalem,? or ??Who heals the sick,? briefly > picture what you are praying for to happen. In these two cases you > could picture Jerusalem, including the Third Temple, made entirely out > of brightly shining gold, floating down from Heaven settling over and > filling the present-day Jerusalem. Or, when praying for the sick, > picture the sick jumping out of their wheelchairs, throwing away their > crutches, and dancing down the street. > *?Think good and it will be good.?* > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/fd1a4b2e/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Mon Jun 8 07:32:30 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 07:32:30 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> <4A2C5C3B.6000102@mts.net> Message-ID: <4A2D04DE.60703@mts.net> Thank you so much for being there in prayer for my dear sister. I have to make a correction, the book that really touched my sister was not RAF but the other one "The Jesus Dynasty" by the same familiar author, James Tabor. That much Tina corrected me with already. Cornie patricia robbins wrote: > Cornie, I'm so sorry to hear about Tina's depression. May HaShem > comfort and strengthen her. Thankfully you are there for her, just as > she has been there for you. I know she loves and appreciates you very > much, even when she is so sad it is hard to express feelings. I will > continue to pray - for both of you Dear Ones. > > Love, > > Pat > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:32:59 -0500 > From: cormary at mts.net > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] new prayer request > > Thank you Pat and all who have been praying for my sister, I just > waited to send this off Pat, since I was hoping to hear from my sister > again, which i have now, but sorry to say, she is on an anti- > depressant drug right now and has a real struggle right now. I took > her out for a meal when she was at her daughters place not far from > here a week ago, and she hardly ate anything. I sent her some of your > e-mails this morning. But i have not been able to know how she took > them. I will let you know when i hear more. Thank you for the prayers. > > Cornie > > > > patricia robbins wrote: > > Cornie, > > Will certainly be praying for your sister, Tina, as well as her > son-in-law, that they will be set free to cleave to our One and > Only Savior, the G-d of Avraham, Yitzchak and Ya'acov. It's > wonderful and encouraging to know that you are reaching out > to these family members, and that they are hearing. I will > remember to pray Is. 43:11 especially for Tina as you have said > that she will learn to cast all her burdens on Him, and Him alone. > > > I, even I, am the L-RD, and beside Me there is no savior. > > Isaiah 43:11 > > > Shavua tov, Dear Friend, > > Avigail/Pat > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:18:46 -0500 > From: cormary at mts.net > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request > > Marvin and all > > Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like > you are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. > > Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have > kept this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, > who has for years tried to understand and sympathize with my > obnoxious to Christianities, views, but now that her very > religious husband passed away within the last year, who was a > very staunch "Jesus" supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. > > But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years > of age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on > her nerves. She thrived on me being there for her in her > bereavement and lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very much > Christian children, and children's children. I was trying to be > very careful what to share with her, yet she was complaining that > I had so many people to share my faith with by e-mail etc. And she > had so little. Than I gave her a copy of James book on RESTORING > ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems like that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL > for her. She told me on the phone one day, that book took away my > DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO NOW? She can not dare to share it > with any of her family. I think she has two preachers if not more > as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize with her, for the > loss of her husband. But even though she was now freed up from a > bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain of a family > bond under the same title!!!!! > > So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, > please pray for her to know how to face life under her present > predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe what seemed to > convict her that life from here on would have to be without Jesus, > on whom she had so much tried to just take all of her burdens and > stress. > > One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the > book "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite > enthused about it. So she got the idea, if i would send this one > back to her, she would offer it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to > him, just to find out what would happen. Maybe hoping that he > would help her bear a tooo heavy burden, to ease it off her > shoulder, just too heavy for her alone. I am afraid that might > almost react like coming up as a suicide bomber!!! > > I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but > encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we > read of in /* Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me > there is no saviour.*/ But I also told her maybe it would be a > great idea to share that book with her son-in-law!!! > > Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One > way might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some > of you dear ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in > time eventually. I could share what you might answer me on this > letter with her, and see if she would like to have an e-mail once > in a while from whom she might choose. I know this is going to be > very tender and touchy. She is just waiting for a Messiah to come > and take us all away to higher ground. There is just too much at > stake to wait much longer for some kind of relief to come for > her. Her family have a lot of health problems as well. > > May Hashem bless you all. > > Cornie > > > > > mhyde wrote: > > > > > > > > I don?t think we will have a problem with being > evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to > listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. Area > were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are not > interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of > jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they will not > study to show themselves approved. Yes there are a few here > and a few there, but most people sitting in church are content > with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse > and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will > want to argue scriptures if you tell them anything that is > different then what they have learned in Sunday school. In > my part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole > cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then switch. > I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in > the trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. > I would be willing to venture a guess, that most of the people > who visit Ross web sites are from other countries and not form > America. > > > > But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation > program and they seem to be growing. Just kidding. > > > > In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do > we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to > call who he will and open blinded eyes of those he chooses. > How do we pass our faith on to the next generation? > > > > I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. > Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not hear > their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to witness of > her salvation and her relationship with Jesus Christ and guess > what?? someone controlling the sound turned it up and you > could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on > fire for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to > the same ole sermon??. It rings so hollow. I looked at the > wife an said, Barbara, when the church gets through with her, > I wonder were she will be in five years. Another young > lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her collage > degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to > win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will > be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church preys on the young > to continue to keep their program going?.. but as we get > older many of us see the fallacies and the lies, and the > attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal > experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God > toward study and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some > very good teachers along the way. But I know many people > still playing the game and going to church and sitting there > and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to > say. What a waste of time?.. > > > > I have no answer?. I have thought on this subject often these > past couple of years. How can we reach this younger > generation? My Father has about 60 % of his children tying > to serve god is some way or other. But everywhere I look > around me I don?t see anybody batting that good with this > young generation(less then 30) maybe, I?m missing > something?.. but I?m believing that Hashem is going to have > to do something to get peoples attention. > > > > I?m done venting?? but still with the question of how do we > reach this young generation with our message? Web if your > out there I would be most interested in your viewpoint, you > have a unique story. > > > > Shalom, Ya?ll > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *kim > alvarado > *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Dialogue] Living the Shema > > > > I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting > posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" > > > > Eliron, > > > > I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that > we should focus on our families first...especially our > children who are still at home. In Judaism, the center of > worship is in daily life in the home...speaking to our > children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a > "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then > we are not following HaShem's commandment. My thought is that > the prayer should be along the lines of "HaShem, we know that > you want us to teach our children ...show us how to be > effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you > have told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us > to others in our community that are seeking your will that our > children may grow and learn together." > > > > BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and > SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when it comes > to our children, we need more. > > > > > > In love, > > Kim > > - Hide quoted text - > > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, > wrote: > > - Hide quoted text - > > Hey James and all, > > > > We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as > well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I > can say has been popping up periodically) regarding making > others aware (especially our children) of this awakening. > > > > Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a > collective time in prayer regarding this issue and then > schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to brainstorm > ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very > appropriate approach. > > > > I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything > that even looks like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, > G-d's calling His people out of the nations is something > very different than G-d's people calling others out. I'm > not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if > not please say so. > > > > But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that > He will send out fishers and hunters, I just think that if > we are not careful, we will fall into the same traps that > Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to elaborate > on that. > > > > What are y'all's thoughts on this? > > > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/494fa997/attachment.html From dstone34 at cox.net Mon Jun 8 07:35:52 2009 From: dstone34 at cox.net (Diana Stone) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 07:35:52 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer... References: <855590370906080448l2f550170x27054642db2bdace@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just finished listening to this audio teaching by Rabbi Sears on the topic of 'Hisbodedus', which refers to prayer from the heart in ones own words, and thought others on this list would appreciate it. Practical Guide to Hisbodedus - An Audio Shiur By Rabbi Dovid Sears http://asimplejew.blogspot.com:80/2009/06/practical-guide-to-hisbodedus-audio.html Blessings to All, Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: Hanoch Young To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:48 AM Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer... Boker tov L'Kulam, I just saw this note, which I think helps connect our prayers with the appropriate visualization; making it more meaningful, and hopefully, even more effective then they could have been! It's from the Mystical Paths website... Hanoch '??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??" ????? ?"?,?" (91 days..) "Let us go up an inherit the Land of Israel, for we are surely able" Numbers 13:30 Prayer by Reb Gutman Locks at Mystical Paths Prayer has to become genuine, alive. One very small but meaningful gesture is, when saying the words, ?You open Your hand and satisfy the desire of every living thing,?[i] to turn your palms upward as if you are trying to receive what it is He is giving. Why are you facing your palms upward? Because you truly believe that G-d?s hand is open and He is trying to give you something. And you are opening your hand heavenward because you want to receive His gifts. This shows that you really believe the words that you are saying. There are many religious Jews who can tell you where every prayer is written and many can even repeat them by heart, but there are very few who can tell you what they actually mean. Often people ask what can be done to improve their concentration during prayer. They complain that their minds keep wandering off the subject onto other totally unrelated things. Really, there is only one thing that you can do when this happens. As soon as you realize that you are off the subject, gently return. Again and again, quietly return to what you want to be concentrating on. This is like a weightlifter who continually picks up his weights, again and again. Each time you return to the subject you get a little stronger. There is another easy thing you can do that will help make your prayers more interesting, and actually more effective. Whatever you pray for, briefly imagine it coming into being. This means that when you are davening the Amidah (the standing, silent prayers), as you are finishing one of the 19 established prayers, such as, ?Blessed are You . . . Who rebuilds Jerusalem,? or ??Who heals the sick,? briefly picture what you are praying for to happen. In these two cases you could picture Jerusalem, including the Third Temple, made entirely out of brightly shining gold, floating down from Heaven settling over and filling the present-day Jerusalem. Or, when praying for the sick, picture the sick jumping out of their wheelchairs, throwing away their crutches, and dancing down the street. ?Think good and it will be good.? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/839a9887/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 07:38:27 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:38:27 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Yeah...even I don't believe THIS one.... Message-ID: <855590370906080538r56a57bf3j695a7e5290b0b85e@mail.gmail.com> Shalom L'Kulam, As most of you know by now, I am (with G-d's help) going on Aliyah (moving to Israel) on September 7th - 91 days away...I will be renting an apartment in Modi'in, a city, midway between the Tel Aviv area (Kyra goes to Bar Ilan University, in Ramat Gan - a suburb of Tel Aviv) and Yerushalayim, where Ayala lives. It is, as you know, the birthplace of the Maccabees...the same Maccabees that brought us Hanukkah! As Modi'in went from the drawing board to actual construction in the early 1990's - each successive neighborhood (or as we say it in New York - "Neighbahood") was simply named after the architect who designed it. So, you had Kaiser, Buchman (North & South), Shimshoni, etc. And especially my favorite - "Givat 'C' - litterally, "Hill 'C'" (only in Israel..sigh...). Well, the City Council, having little to do (it seems), decided to rename ALL of the neighborhoods with names they felt were more appropriate, based on the names of the streets in those areas. Well, when I read the names, I immediately contacted the Modi'in list (yes, they too have an English language list!) to ask what neighborhood the building I'll be in (part of the 'Dimri Towers' ), I actually was hoping it would be the new neighborhood,* *"HaShvatim" - The Tribes. Well, after numerous notes to clarify - that wasn't the one I wound up with. BUT, my building is in the *Megenim neighborhood - "The Watchmen." * Coincidence? Significant? Ironic? Simply a reference to the former 'Highlander' TV show that I'm obsessed with? You tell me..... :-) :-) I'm still not over how WAY COOL it will be to live where the Maccabees lived.....LOL *Hanoch* '??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??" ????? ?"?,?" (91 days..) "Let us go up an inherit the Land of Israel, for we are surely able" Numbers 13:30 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/3be1e651/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 07:44:27 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:44:27 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer... In-Reply-To: References: <855590370906080448l2f550170x27054642db2bdace@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <855590370906080544s1a04d03bued6b6cf23327688f@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Diana! * Hanoch * On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Diana Stone wrote: > Just finished listening to this audio teaching by Rabbi Sears on the > topic of 'Hisbodedus', which refers to prayer from the heart in ones own > words, and thought others on this list would appreciate it. > ** > > *Practical Guide to Hisbodedus* - An Audio Shiur By Rabbi Dovid Sears > > http://asimplejew.blogspot.com:80/2009/06/practical-guide-to-hisbodedus-audio.html > > > Blessings to All, > Diana > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Hanoch Young > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Sent:* Monday, June 08, 2009 6:48 AM > *Subject:* [Dialogue] Prayer... > > Boker tov L'Kulam, > > I just saw this note, which I think helps connect our prayers with the > appropriate visualization; making it more meaningful, and hopefully, even > more effective then they could have been! It's from the Mystical Paths > website... > > > *Hanoch* '??? ???? > ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??" ????? ?"?,?" > (91 days..) "Let > us go up an inherit the Land of Israel, for we are surely able" Numbers > 13:30 > > > * Prayer > *by Reb Gutman Locks at Mystical Paths > > Prayer has to become genuine, alive. One very small but meaningful gesture > is, when saying the words, ?You open Your hand and satisfy the desire of > every living thing,?[i] to turn your palms upward as if you are trying to > receive what it is He is giving. Why are you facing your palms upward? > Because you truly believe that G-d?s hand is open and He is trying to give > you something. And you are opening your hand heavenward because you want to > receive His gifts. This shows that you really believe the words that you are > saying. > > There are many religious Jews who can tell you where every prayer is > written and many can even repeat them by heart, but there are very few who > can tell you what they actually mean. Often people ask what can be done to > improve their concentration during prayer. They complain that their minds > keep wandering off the subject onto other totally unrelated things. > Really, there is only one thing that you can do when this happens. As soon > as you realize that you are off the subject, gently return. Again and again, > quietly return to what you want to be concentrating on. This is like a > weightlifter who continually picks up his weights, again and again. Each > time you return to the subject you get a little stronger. > > > There is another easy thing you can do that will help make your prayers > more interesting, and actually more effective. Whatever you pray for, > briefly imagine it coming into being. This means that when you are davening > the Amidah (the standing, silent prayers), as you are finishing one of the > 19 established prayers, such as, ?Blessed are You . . . Who rebuilds > Jerusalem,? or ??Who heals the sick,? briefly picture what you are praying > for to happen. In these two cases you could picture Jerusalem, including the > Third Temple, made entirely out of brightly shining gold, floating down from > Heaven settling over and filling the present-day Jerusalem. Or, when praying > for the sick, picture the sick jumping out of their wheelchairs, throwing > away their crutches, and dancing down the street. > *?Think good and it will be good.?* > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/3d35cebf/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 07:45:14 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:45:14 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer... In-Reply-To: <4A2D043B.50509@mts.net> References: <855590370906080448l2f550170x27054642db2bdace@mail.gmail.com> <4A2D043B.50509@mts.net> Message-ID: <855590370906080545h644fcf66te1c06718fe1dbf3e@mail.gmail.com> Shalom Cornie! You know, that's the funny thing about sharing something that I personally found helped helpful, as this note did. I am so thrilled that you found it meaningful, and that it "spoke to you, as well!" May we always, always, be there for each other - and may Tina get the information and direction she needs, at a time, and in a manner that she can relate to..... And Cornie my friend, remember - none of us is EVER done with our journey.... Please come and visit in Israel.... With Brachot for strength, * Hanoch * On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Cornie Reimer wrote: > Very meaningful, and just what I need personally Hanoch, thank you. I was > aware of this, "to turn your palms upward as if you are trying to receive > what it is He is giving." but it is a time when I really need it for my dear > sister Tina, at her age to be able to grasp what she finds really a bit hard > to change her lifetime faith in Jesus to all at once crumble, and than to > face it as a widow with a big family who all believe what she has taught > them all their life. I want to grasp the fact that she will get the truth > established before she is done with her journey here, in true emuna, that > will come from her knowing her maker, by direct connection to Him, and not > by anything I try to get her to think. > > Cornie > > > > Hanoch Young wrote: > > Boker tov L'Kulam, > > I just saw this note, which I think helps connect our prayers with the > appropriate visualization; making it more meaningful, and hopefully, even > more effective then they could have been! It's from the Mystical Paths > website... > > > *Hanoch* '??? ???? > ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??" ????? ?"?,?" > (91 days..) "Let > us go up an inherit the Land of Israel, for we are surely able" Numbers > 13:30 > > > * Prayer > *by Reb Gutman Locks at Mystical Paths > > Prayer has to become genuine, alive. One very small but meaningful gesture > is, when saying the words, ?You open Your hand and satisfy the desire of > every living thing,?[i] to turn your palms upward as if you are trying to > receive what it is He is giving. Why are you facing your palms upward? > Because you truly believe that G-d?s hand is open and He is trying to give > you something. And you are opening your hand heavenward because you want to > receive His gifts. This shows that you really believe the words that you are > saying. > > There are many religious Jews who can tell you where every prayer is > written and many can even repeat them by heart, but there are very few who > can tell you what they actually mean. Often people ask what can be done to > improve their concentration during prayer. They complain that their minds > keep wandering off the subject onto other totally unrelated things. > Really, there is only one thing that you can do when this happens. As soon > as you realize that you are off the subject, gently return. Again and again, > quietly return to what you want to be concentrating on. This is like a > weightlifter who continually picks up his weights, again and again. Each > time you return to the subject you get a little stronger. > > > There is another easy thing you can do that will help make your prayers > more interesting, and actually more effective. Whatever you pray for, > briefly imagine it coming into being. This means that when you are davening > the Amidah (the standing, silent prayers), as you are finishing one of the > 19 established prayers, such as, ?Blessed are You . . . Who rebuilds > Jerusalem,? or ??Who heals the sick,? briefly picture what you are praying > for to happen. In these two cases you could picture Jerusalem, including the > Third Temple, made entirely out of brightly shining gold, floating down from > Heaven settling over and filling the present-day Jerusalem. Or, when praying > for the sick, picture the sick jumping out of their wheelchairs, throwing > away their crutches, and dancing down the street. > *?Think good and it will be good.?* > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/f09a76af/attachment.html From gets52000 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 8 08:17:44 2009 From: gets52000 at yahoo.com (susie getskow) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 06:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Dear All Message-ID: <690519.98324.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I find myself in the frozen tundra of my home state of Minnesota as my Mom suffered a stroke on May 28. She will be 87 in August and has lived an incredible independent life up to now. She has significant loss on her left side but comes from strong and stubborn stock and is working incredibly hard to get back to her status quo. Interestingly enough it is times like this that should bring me closer to Hashem but I feel somewhat disconnected right now. I am concentrating so hard on every small improvement, every squeeze of Mom's hand and step that she takes and making sure that her spirits stay high that I feel like Hashem has taken a back seat. I am so thankful to you all that I can jump on here and read you all to bring me back into focus. ? I loved the pictures of the Men's Retreat/Advance especially the men blowing the shofar. I felt like I could hear the sound and it makes me feel like I am getting to know who you are and what you look like. It is good to have a mental image of what one looks like when writing back and forth. I am currently about 50 miles from where James will be holding his conference in July at St. Olaf college so if I am still here I will try to get to it.( Northfield, Mn. is the home of Malt-O-Meal and their sport teams are the Ollies with the appropiate school song set to the tune of a Oomph Pah Pah.) ? Susie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/9b93c06f/attachment.html From gets52000 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 8 08:25:11 2009 From: gets52000 at yahoo.com (susie getskow) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 06:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24] Message-ID: <630908.65687.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Does it make sense that Christianity would take the words of Paul about Yeshua being the High Priest and comparing it to this pattern set at Mt. Sinai? That Moses and then Aaron would so to speak be a intermediator for the Israelites? --- On Mon, 6/8/09, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: From: JOE INDOMENICO Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24] To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 12:37 AM Shalom Betty, my apologies for not replying to your post earlier. There are a few insights that I would like to add. The experience of Har Sinai was to set the stage for the Mishkan / Tabernacle in the wilderness and future temples. The mountain itself is a pattern of the Outer Court, the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies. The base is the Outer Court. The mountain is the Holy Place. The summit is the Holy of Holies. The people were not to leave the outer court or base camp. They had to remain within the barrier. The Priests who at this point were the first born as the incident of the golden calf had not occurred yet were to be santified or set apart. They were to be replaced later by the Levites. They had to stay at the bottom of the actual mountain. This alludes to the future Levitical Priesthood and its service in the Holy Place. However, the Holy of Holies would be the exclusive realm of the Cohen HaGadol or High Priest. Moshe officiated at Har Sinai, Aaron would officiate in the future Mishkan. No Levites were allowed into the Holy of Holies. I hope this answers your question regarding Exodus chapter 19. On the issue of G-d. Jews write this as a form of respect. It is the equivalent of saying Adonai instead of YHVH or Elokim instead of Elohim. They fear taking His Name in vain. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/d690f7d3/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 10:54:52 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:54:52 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "Neighborhood Bully" Message-ID: <855590370906080854w4675a15y6f9a4c29c37e1c0d@mail.gmail.com> As in so many areas of life, Bob Dylan's lyrics just call it as it is.....my personal favorite, from the 'Infidels' album: * Hanoch* Neighborhood Bully by Bob Dylan Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man, His enemies say he's on their land. They got him outnumbered about a million to one, He got no place to escape to, no place to run. He's the neighborhood bully. The neighborhood bully just lives to survive, He's criticized and condemned for being alive. He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin, He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in. He's the neighborhood bully. The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land, He's wandered the earth an exiled man. Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn, He's always on trial for just being born. He's the neighborhood bully. Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized, Old women condemned him, said he should apologize. Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad. The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad. He's the neighborhood bully. Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him, 'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac. He's the neighborhood bully. He got no allies to really speak of. What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love. He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side. He's the neighborhood bully. Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace, They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease. Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep. They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep. He's the neighborhood bully. Every empire that's enslaved him is gone, Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon. He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand, In bed with nobody, under no one's command. He's the neighborhood bully. Now his holiest books have been trampled upon, No contract he signed was worth what it was written on. He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth, Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health. He's the neighborhood bully. What's anybody indebted to him for? Nothin', they say. He just likes to cause war. Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed, They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed. He's the neighborhood bully. What has he done to wear so many scars? Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars? Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill, Running out the clock, time standing still, Neighborhood bully. Copyright ?1983 Special Rider Music -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/3b6aa310/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Mon Jun 8 12:32:47 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 12:32:47 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Dear All In-Reply-To: <690519.98324.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <690519.98324.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5818D3FB65D1411B993BA759DDD3FE3C@bettylaptop> Dear Susie, Thanks so much for sharing with us. I do understand a bit of where you are coming from right now and will pray for you as you try to provide comfort and encouragement for your Mom. The role reversal that many of us find ourselves in as our parents get older and more dependant upon us is often difficult to cope with because it is so unlike the relationship that we are used to with our parents. It may seem to you that HaShem has taken a back seat, but actually I believe that He is right there beside you and with you in all this, sharing your hurt and your wanting to help you thru your disconnectedness. I have heard others say it and I believe it to be true, that it is at the times when we feel most disconnected and less like praying that this is the time when we need prayer the most. And even if it is just a deep breath followed by a "please help me HaShem!" He honors those prayers because He knows our hearts. The words don't always come easily for us when we are feeling disconnected and maybe even numb. I have often thought that the numbness is in a sense, a blessing in that it is a coping mechanism to help us thru these times when we just cannot understand or fathom what is happening at the time. When my Mom was so sick, I found myself reading a lot in the psalms and it was really helpful because I could find expression for my thoughts that I just couldn't put into words. I do hope that you will be able to attend the BAR conference at St. Olaf college. You would love getting to meet James plus I think you would enjoy the lectures very much and have the opportunity to learn and meet many people. We love you and care about you, Susie. I will be praying for HaShem to you to have an extra measure of strength and that you will be able to impart encouragement and peace to your Mom. This has to be a scary time for her. I will also pray for a "Refuah Shleimah," a complete healing for her. Please keep us posted. Love and prayers, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of susie getskow Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:18 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Dear All I find myself in the frozen tundra of my home state of Minnesota as my Mom suffered a stroke on May 28. She will be 87 in August and has lived an incredible independent life up to now. She has significant loss on her left side but comes from strong and stubborn stock and is working incredibly hard to get back to her status quo. Interestingly enough it is times like this that should bring me closer to Hashem but I feel somewhat disconnected right now. I am concentrating so hard on every small improvement, every squeeze of Mom's hand and step that she takes and making sure that her spirits stay high that I feel like Hashem has taken a back seat. I am so thankful to you all that I can jump on here and read you all to bring me back into focus. I loved the pictures of the Men's Retreat/Advance especially the men blowing the shofar. I felt like I could hear the sound and it makes me feel like I am getting to know who you are and what you look like. It is good to have a mental image of what one looks like when writing back and forth. I am currently about 50 miles from where James will be holding his conference in July at St. Olaf college so if I am still here I will try to get to it.( Northfield, Mn. is the home of Malt-O-Meal and their sport teams are the Ollies with the appropiate school song set to the tune of a Oomph Pah Pah.) Susie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/8b06cdb4/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Mon Jun 8 13:04:24 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:04:24 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew] In-Reply-To: <4A2CBFD1.1030005@westnet.com.au> References: <4A2CBFD1.1030005@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <8344632246F04DE8B1C8F3AEC0BB9936@bettylaptop> Thank you, Joe?and thank your friend, Eli for sending us the timely article by Rabbi Weinberg, of blessed memory?as I was reading thru these words, the words from the prophet Amos came to mind?I realize this is for the House of Israel, but believe that the idea extends to Judah as well? ? ????-?????? ??????? ????????, ???????????? ?????-????????? ???-????? ??????????, ????????? ???????? ???????????, ?????-??????? ?????? ?????. 9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all the nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. Not the least grain shall fall or be lost to HaShem! This has to be the hope of the whole House of Israel and all of those who support HaShem?s Torah, His chosen people and His chosen land! Shalom v?Ahavah Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of JOE INDOMENICO Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:38 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] more camps than we knew] Shalom Catherine, thank you for posting this article. Whilst it never ceases to amaze us , the extent and the viciousness of the deaths during the Shoah pale into insignificance when we look at the whole history of antisemitism. Six million perished and possibly more when you consider the article posted. We know that the Nazis were extremely diligent in the keeping of records. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/14/60minutes/main2267927.shtml >From the persecution of Avraham by Nimrod to the death of all Hebrew males in Egypt during the slavery period, from destruction of both temples to the crusades, from the Inquisition to the pogroms, there is a trail of Israelite blood. Only HaShem would know the true number of innocent souls that died for the crime of being born Jewish and sanctified the Name of HaShem by their very lives. HaShem has three distinct physical manifestations of His Essence and Spiritual Being, * His Torah or Holy Word. * His chosen people. * His chosen land. These three are one. You cannot separate them. For example when the people are exiled the land will not yield its produce. When the people return the land is revived and yields its produce. There has been a concerted effort over the past 2000 years to attack these three fundamental aspects of Divine physical reality by the other religions and gentile nations. The Torah has been attacked by being made redundant, old, super ceded, irrelevant , nailed to a cross, a curse ,legalistic and replaced by the NT and Koran. The chosen people have been replaced by Christians and or Muslims. Replacement and displacement theology has run rampant. The Church becomes the New Israel or Muslims have elected themselves as the "chosen ones." Traditional Christianity viewed the land with disdain. The true Jerusalem was heavenly. Islam viewed the land as an item to conquer or subjugate to Allah. So these past 2000 years have witnessed the vitriolic attacks and murders of hundred of millions of which the Shoah is only the tip of the iceberg. I am afraid that we have not learned the lessons of the past and are destined to repeat them. My mate Eli sent me this link and asked me to post it for you all as Rabbi Noach Weinberg, of blessed memory, challenges all the hard questions with to the point answers. It underscores much of what I wrote above. He just sent it to me. Amazing timing. http://www.hidabroot.org/MediaDetail.asp?MediaID=9139 I feel it in my heart to pray for all the victims of antisemitism throughout the millenia, the unknown ones, the ones who were left to rot, the unidentified ones, the ones we never heard of...... somewhat like the memorials to the unknown soldiers who died in combat. We owe it to HaShem that their memory is never forgotten and the sacrifice they made on our behalf to ensure that we had a roots of faith to return to. I , for one , feel unworthy and lacking merit to have the Holy Torah handed to me on a platter by my Jewish brothers and sisters who sanctified the Name of HaShem with their lives. I was never evicted from my home, never had my possessions confiscated, told to wear a yellow badge of shame, forced to live in a ghetto, asked to put my neck on the line for my beliefs. All in all, I am only standing on a planet that has drunk plenty of innocent Jewish blood ,and having said that, I only stand because of the incredible MERCY / RACHAMIM of HASHEM. No more ..... no else. Baruch HaShem, l'Olam Chasdo!!!!! Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/197956ac/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Mon Jun 8 15:11:42 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:11:42 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] "Neighborhood Bully" Speaking of Bob DYLAN In-Reply-To: <855590370906080854w4675a15y6f9a4c29c37e1c0d@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370906080854w4675a15y6f9a4c29c37e1c0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1B6599AA519349BBA196374FCDF9681B@bettylaptop> Very appropriate in these times as it was in 1983 when it was copyrighted! Thanks, Hanoch for sending. You have probably seen this photo, but thought it very appropriate to share in view of Pat's recent posting regarding the tefellin. Besides, we were talking about tefellin in one of my classes last Sunday, and I mentioned having a photo of Dylan at the Kotel with his tefellin and then couldn't find the photo, so I asked James for a copy. So compliments of James, here it is! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 10:55 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] "Neighborhood Bully" As in so many areas of life, Bob Dylan's lyrics just call it as it is.....my personal favorite, from the 'Infidels' album: Hanoch Neighborhood Bully by Bob Dylan Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man, His enemies say he's on their land. They got him outnumbered about a million to one, He got no place to escape to, no place to run. He's the neighborhood bully. The neighborhood bully just lives to survive, He's criticized and condemned for being alive. He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin, He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in. He's the neighborhood bully. The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land, He's wandered the earth an exiled man. Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn, He's always on trial for just being born. He's the neighborhood bully. Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized, Old women condemned him, said he should apologize. Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad. The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad. He's the neighborhood bully. Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him, 'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac. He's the neighborhood bully. He got no allies to really speak of. What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love. He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side. He's the neighborhood bully. Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace, They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease. Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep. They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep. He's the neighborhood bully. Every empire that's enslaved him is gone, Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon. He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand, In bed with nobody, under no one's command. He's the neighborhood bully. Now his holiest books have been trampled upon, No contract he signed was worth what it was written on. He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth, Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health. He's the neighborhood bully. What's anybody indebted to him for? Nothin', they say. He just likes to cause war. Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed, They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed. He's the neighborhood bully. What has he done to wear so many scars? Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars? Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill, Running out the clock, time standing still, Neighborhood bully. Copyright C1983 Special Rider Music -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/a2bcb617/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Dylan with tefellin.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 103944 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/a2bcb617/attachment.jpg From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 18:40:02 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:40:02 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] The American pressure has started... Message-ID: <855590370906081640l316bd86bg5f88bc7923a0f96d@mail.gmail.com> I wonder if the Soviets would be interested in selling us helicoptors? Hmmm.... * Hanoch * ** ** *Administration blocks helicopters for Israel due to civilian casualties in Gaza* - May 27, 2009 World Tribune.com WASHINGTON ? The Obama administration has blocked Israel`s request for advanced U.S.-origin attack helicopters. Government sources said the administration has held up Israel`s request for the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter. The sources said the request was undergoing an interagency review to determine whether additional Longbow helicopters would threaten Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip. "During the recent war, Israel made considerable use of the Longbow, and there were high civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip," a source close to the administration said. The sources said Israel has sought to purchase up to six new AH-64Ds in an effort to bolster conventional and counter-insurgency capabilities. They said Israel wants to replenish its fleet after the loss of two Apache helicopters in the 2006 war with Hizbullah. The Israel Air Force has also requested U.S. permission to integrate the Spike extended-range anti-tank missile into the AH-64D, Middle East Newsline reported. Spike ER, developed by the state-owned Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, has a range of eight kilometers and was installed on the Eurocopter Tiger and AgustaWestland A129 helicopters. The sources said the deployment of Spike would require integration into the Longbow`s millimeter-wave fire control and acquisition system. They said this would require permission from both Boeing and the U.S. government. Israel`s Defense Ministry and air force have discussed procurement of additional Longbows with the U.S. firm Boeing. But the sources said the Longbow as well as other defense requests have been shelved by the administration amid its review of the potential use of American weapons platforms by Israel. During his visit to the United States, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu also sought to win approval from the Defense Department for the installation of Israeli-origin electronic warfare systems in the Joint Strike Fighter. Netanyahu was said to have met Defense Secretary Robert Gates in a review of Israeli defense programs with the United States. Defense Minister Ehud Barak was scheduled to meet Gates in Washington in early June. 3965 W. 83rd. Street #292 Shawnee Mission, KS 66208 I Phone: 913.648.0022 I Fax: 913.648.7997 This site is designed for standards compliant browsers. If your browser is not standards compliant, download one here . Website copyright ? 2006. Unity Coalition for Israel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/d8748bcf/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 18:50:07 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:50:07 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] A likely war scenario Message-ID: <855590370906081650y560ce5b1x2aeba742f03ce750@mail.gmail.com> During the course of the projected war described below, while "Israeli Arabs" were committing acts of terrorism and sabotage, I wonder if any Jewish Israelis (not in the Army) would use this as an opportunity to rid the Land of the traitorous 5th column, once and for all?? Hmmmmm..... * Hanoch * ** *Israel Prepares for War: 5-Day `Turning Point 3` Exercise Begins* Yehudah Lev Kay - May 31, 2009 Israel International News (IsraelNN.com) The largest emergency drill ever to take place in Israel, dubbed ?Turning Point 3?, began Sunday morning after months of planning. Representatives from 70 nations are participating as observers in the drill, which simulates a war with Hamas, Hizbullah, and Syria that also leads Arabs within Israel to riot and commit terrorist attacks. Turning Point 3 involves the IDF, police, emergency medical services, government offices, and all of the nation?s civilians. Some Arab countries, nervously watching Israel prepare for the exercise, have claimed that the exercise is just a front for an Israeli attack. The drill is intended to prepare the Jewish State for the worst possible scenario, beginning with a war that ignites in Gaza after a three-month escalation, bringing Israeli civilians in the Negev under rocket bombardment. The fighting then spreads to Israel?s northern border, where Hizbullah opens a second front and initiates rocket fire reaching all parts of the country. The war next engulfs Syria, and at the same time *authorities must deal with uprisings among the local Arab population, including terrorist attacks against Israeli targets.* At the same time, emergency services will train for other disasters such as an earthquake, an epidemic outbreak, or a hazardous materials spill. As far as the general population is concerned, Turning Point 3 reaches its peak on Tuesday, when a nationwide siren sounds at 11:00 a.m., sending civilians to the nearest bomb shelter. The Home Front Command recently released a map showing that every Israeli citizen has come under rocket threat from either Hamas or Hizbullah, and explaining how much time a person has to reach a shelter based on his location. *Five Days of Intensive Simulations* The different components of Turning Point 3 are spread out over five days this week. On Sunday, the drill began during the weekly cabinet meeting as government ministers were walked through the steps the state would take in a time of war. The simulation is expected to continue throughout the cabinet meeting. Monday sees the exercise expand to defense and emergency services, as the IDF, police, National Emergency Authority, and Home Front Command begin simulations. All government offices open emergency centers, while the Emergency Economic Command meets to handle the economic home front during war time. On Tuesday, local governing councils are presented with emergency scenarios and respond accordingly. At 11:00 a.m., the nationwide siren is activated, sending civilians to bomb shelters in offices, schools and shopping centers. Citizens in apartment buildings and private homes are strongly urged to practice seeking the safety of bomb shelters and safe rooms at this time as well. Wednesday sees drills at the National Security Cabinet and tests of the national information and data management system. Emergency forces in Kiryat Gat practice evacuating wounded from a collapsed building prepared specially for the drill. On Thursday, IDF units drill field exercises while the Home Front Command continues the simulation at its headquarters. The police practice the evacuation of a skyscraper as Turning Point 3 comes to a close. *Seventy Nations Look On, Arabs Wary* Representatives of 70 different countries, including the U.S., Turkey, Japan, France, Germany, Uruguay, and Hungary are set to observe the drill. They will also share their impressions on the success of ?Turning Point 3? with Israeli authorities. Several Arab states, however, have expressed concern with the Israeli exercise; Hizbullah terrorists have claimed that it is a front designed to conceal a planned Israeli attack. Defense Minister Ehud Barak countered the claims last week, saying that Turning Point 3 ?is a standard Home Front Command drill which was planned will in advance.? Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai added, however, that the drill represents a very real scenario that could occur in wartime. The IDF Spokesperson?s Office said, ?Turning Point 3 is a standard exercise which has taken place each year for the past three years. The purpose of the drill is to improve Israel?s readiness and cooperation among forces for an emergency situation. The exercise will reveal areas that need improvement and point towards proper solutions.? 3965 W. 83rd. Street #292 Shawnee Mission, KS 66208 I Phone: 913.648.0022 I Fax: 913.648.7997 This site is designed for standards compliant browsers. If your browser is not standards compliant, download one here . Website copyright ? 2006. Unity Coalition for Israel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/d88982d0/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 8 18:53:57 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:53:57 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] The American pressure has started... In-Reply-To: <855590370906081640l316bd86bg5f88bc7923a0f96d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <060820092353.3206.4A2DA495000963D100000C8622218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> At last! The Obama administration declares itself openly. Maybe it's time Israel took a page out of Iran's and North Korea's book and stopped asking for "Permission" to do anything. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- I wonder if the Soviets would be interested in selling us helicoptors? Hmmm.... Hanoch Administration blocks helicopters for Israel due to civilian casualties in Gaza - May 27, 2009 World Tribune.com WASHINGTON ? The Obama administration has blocked Israel`s request for advanced U.S.-origin attack helicopters. Government sources said the administration has held up Israel`s request for the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter. The sources said the request was undergoing an interagency review to determine whether additional Longbow helicopters would threaten Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip. "During the recent war, Israel made considerable use of the Longbow, and there were high civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip," a source close to the administration said. The sources said Israel has sought to purchase up to six new AH-64Ds in an effort to bolster conventional and counter-insurgency capabilities. They said Israel wants to replenish its fleet after the loss of two Apache helicopters in the 2006 war with Hizbullah. The Israel Air Force has also requested U.S. permission to integrate the Spike extended-range anti-tank missile into the AH-64D, Middle East Newsline reported. Spike ER, developed by the state-owned Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, has a range of eight kilometers and was installed on the Eurocopter Tiger and AgustaWestland A129 helicopters. The sources said the deployment of Spike would require integration into the Longbow`s millimeter-wave fire control and acquisition system. They said this would require permission from both Boeing and the U.S. government. Israel`s Defense Ministry and air force have discussed procurement of additional Longbows with the U.S. firm Boeing. But the sources said the Longbow as well as other defense requests have been shelved by the administration amid its review of the potential use of American weapons platforms by Israel. During his visit to the United States, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu also sought to win approval from the Defense Department for the installation of Israeli-origin electronic warfare systems in the Joint Strike Fighter. Netanyahu was said to have met Defense Secretary Robert Gates in a review of Israeli defense programs with the United States. Defense Minister Ehud Barak was scheduled to meet Gates in Washington in early June. 3965 W. 83rd. Street #292 Shawnee Mission, KS 66208 I Phone: 913.648.0022 I Fax: 913.648.7997 This site is designed for standards compliant browsers. If your browser is not standards compliant, download one here. Website copyright ? 2006. Unity Coalition for Israel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/f466f64e/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 19:00:10 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:00:10 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] The American pressure has started... In-Reply-To: <060820092353.3206.4A2DA495000963D100000C8622218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <855590370906081640l316bd86bg5f88bc7923a0f96d@mail.gmail.com> <060820092353.3206.4A2DA495000963D100000C8622218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <855590370906081700q3d7700c8s34f64263b568072d@mail.gmail.com> Hey John - You know, if Israel is unable to purchase (or manufacture) the appropriate *conventional *weapons, then they may have NO CHOICE but to resort to their *alleged *unconventional arsenal..... No let's see how Hilary and her boss like THAT! *Hanoch * On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 7:53 PM, wrote: > At last! The Obama administration declares itself openly. > > Maybe it's time Israel took a page out of Iran's and North Korea's book and > stopped asking for "Permission" to do anything. > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : > -------------- > > I wonder if the Soviets would be interested in selling us helicoptors? > Hmmm.... > * Hanoch > * > ** ** > *Administration blocks helicopters for Israel due to civilian casualties > in Gaza* > > - May 27, 2009 > World Tribune.com > > WASHINGTON ? The Obama administration has blocked Israel`s request for > advanced U.S.-origin attack helicopters. > > Government sources said the administration has held up Israel`s request for > the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter. The sources said the request > was undergoing an interagency review to determine whether additional Longbow > helicopters would threaten Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip. > > "During the recent war, Israel made considerable use of the Longbow, and > there were high civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip," a source close to > the administration said. > > The sources said Israel has sought to purchase up to six new AH-64Ds in an > effort to bolster conventional and counter-insurgency capabilities. They > said Israel wants to replenish its fleet after the loss of two Apache > helicopters in the 2006 war with Hizbullah. > > The Israel Air Force has also requested U.S. permission to integrate the > Spike extended-range anti-tank missile into the AH-64D, Middle East Newsline > reported. Spike ER, developed by the state-owned Rafael Advanced Defense > Systems, has a range of eight kilometers and was installed on the Eurocopter > Tiger and AgustaWestland A129 helicopters. > > The sources said the deployment of Spike would require integration into the > Longbow`s millimeter-wave fire control and acquisition system. They said > this would require permission from both Boeing and the U.S. government. > > Israel`s Defense Ministry and air force have discussed procurement of > additional Longbows with the U.S. firm Boeing. But the sources said the > Longbow as well as other defense requests have been shelved by the > administration amid its review of the potential use of American weapons > platforms by Israel. > > During his visit to the United States, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu > also sought to win approval from the Defense Department for the installation > of Israeli-origin electronic warfare systems in the Joint Strike Fighter. > > Netanyahu was said to have met Defense Secretary Robert Gates in a review > of Israeli defense programs with the United States. Defense Minister Ehud > Barak was scheduled to meet Gates in Washington in early June. > > > > 3965 W. 83rd. Street #292 Shawnee Mission, KS 66208 I Phone: 913.648.0022 I > Fax: 913.648.7997 > This site is designed for standards compliant browsers. If your browser is > not standards compliant, download one here > . > Website copyright ? 2006. Unity Coalition for Israel. > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/df1aec81/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 8 19:04:47 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 00:04:47 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Yeah...even I don't believe THIS one.... In-Reply-To: <855590370906080538r56a57bf3j695a7e5290b0b85e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <060920090004.24530.4A2DA71F0000561500005FD222218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> It is all WAY COOL Hanoch. I hope to be visiting you there next year. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Shalom L'Kulam, As most of you know by now, I am (with G-d's help) going on Aliyah (moving to Israel) on September 7th - 91 days away...I will be renting an apartment in Modi'in, a city, midway between the Tel Aviv area (Kyra goes to Bar Ilan University, in Ramat Gan - a suburb of Tel Aviv) and Yerushalayim, where Ayala lives. It is, as you know, the birthplace of the Maccabees...the same Maccabees that brought us Hanukkah! As Modi'in went from the drawing board to actual construction in the early 1990's - each successive neighborhood (or as we say it in New York - "Neighbahood") was simply named after the architect who designed it. So, you had Kaiser, Buchman (North & South), Shimshoni, etc. And especially my favorite - "Givat 'C' - litterally, "Hill 'C'" (only in Israel..sigh...). Well, the City Council, having little to do (it seems), decided to rename ALL of the neighborhoods with names they felt were more appropriate, based on the names of the streets in those areas. Well, when I read the names, I immediately contacted the Modi'in list (yes, they too have an English language list!) to ask what neighborhood the building I'll be in (part of the 'Dimri Towers' ), I actually was hoping it would be the new neighborhood, "HaShvatim" - The Tribes. Well, after numerous notes to clarify - that wasn't the one I wound up with. BUT, my building is in the Megenim neighborhood - "The Watchmen." Coincidence? Significant? Ironic? Simply a reference to the former 'Highlander' TV show that I'm obsessed with? You tell me..... :-) :-) I'm still not over how WAY COOL it will be to live where the Maccabees lived.....LOL Hanoch '??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??" ????? ?"?,?" (91 days..) "Let us go up an inherit the Land of Israel, for we are surely able" Numbers 13:30 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/928147da/attachment.html From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 19:24:25 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:24:25 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: <4A2D04DE.60703@mts.net> References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> <4A2C5C3B.6000102@mts.net> <4A2D04DE.60703@mts.net> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906081724g47e3f864lef505af1036324b6@mail.gmail.com> Do you have a copy of RAF to give her? It is a must read for anyone seeking HaShem. Kim On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Cornie Reimer wrote: > > Thank you so much for being there in prayer for my dear sister. I have to > make a correction, the book that really touched my sister was not RAF but > the other one "The Jesus Dynasty" by the same familiar author, James Tabor. > That much Tina corrected me with already. > > Cornie > > patricia robbins wrote: > > Cornie, I'm so sorry to hear about Tina's depression. May HaShem > comfort and strengthen her. Thankfully you are there for her, just as she > has been there for you. I know she loves and appreciates you very much, > even when she is so sad it is hard to express feelings. I will continue to > pray - for both of you Dear Ones. > > Love, > > Pat > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:32:59 -0500 > From: cormary at mts.net > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] new prayer request > > Thank you Pat and all who have been praying for my sister, I just waited to > send this off Pat, since I was hoping to hear from my sister again, which i > have now, but sorry to say, she is on an anti- depressant drug right now and > has a real struggle right now. I took her out for a meal when she was at her > daughters place not far from here a week ago, and she hardly ate anything. I > sent her some of your e-mails this morning. But i have not been able to know > how she took them. I will let you know when i hear more. Thank you for the > prayers. > > Cornie > > > > patricia robbins wrote: > > Cornie, > > Will certainly be praying for your sister, Tina, as well as her son-in-law, > that they will be set free to cleave to our One and Only Savior, the G-d of > Avraham, Yitzchak and Ya'acov. It's wonderful and encouraging to know that > you are reaching out to these family members, and that they are hearing. I > will remember to pray Is. 43:11 especially for Tina as you have said that > she will learn to cast all her burdens on Him, and Him alone. > > > I, even I, am the L-RD, and beside Me there is no savior. > > Isaiah 43:11 > > Shavua tov, Dear Friend, > > Avigail/Pat > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:18:46 -0500 > From: cormary at mts.net > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request > > Marvin and all > > Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just like you are > mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck on their thing. > > Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I have kept this > from you all for sooo long! I have one dear sister Tina, who has for years > tried to understand and sympathize with my obnoxious to Christianities, > views, but now that her very religious husband passed away within the last > year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" supporter, who very stiffly opposed me. > > But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 years of age, > this has been so tough on her, to the point of getting on her nerves. She > thrived on me being there for her in her bereavement and lonesomeness. Yet > she has her 10 very much Christian children, and children's children. I was > trying to be very careful what to share with her, yet she was complaining > that I had so many people to share my faith with by e-mail etc. And she had > so little. Than I gave her a copy of James book on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC > FAITH. Now it seems like that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me > on the phone one day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT SHALL I DO > NOW? She can not dare to share it with any of her family. I think she has > two preachers if not more as son in-laws, and they all want to sympathize > with her, for the loss of her husband. But even though she was now freed up > from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain of a family > bond under the same title!!!!! > > So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart to, please > pray for her to know how to face life under her present predicament. I told > her she didn't have to believe what seemed to convict her that life from > here on would have to be without Jesus, on whom she had so much tried to > just take all of her burdens and stress. > > One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read the book "The > Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to be quite enthused about it. > So she got the idea, if i would send this one back to her, she would offer > it: "RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find out what would happen. > Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a tooo heavy burden, to ease it off > her shoulder, just too heavy for her alone. I am afraid that might almost > react like coming up as a suicide bomber!!! > > I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, but encouraged > her to take her burden to the only saviour, like we read of in * Isa 43:11 > I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.* But I also > told her maybe it would be a great idea to share that book with her > son-in-law!!! > > Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her aide? One way > might be, for her to once in a while get an e-mail from some of you dear > ones. So she could get a bond formed with you all in time eventually. I > could share what you might answer me on this letter with her, and see if > she would like to have an e-mail once in a while from whom she might > choose. I know this is going to be very tender and touchy. She is just > waiting for a Messiah to come and take us all away to higher ground. There > is just too much at stake to wait much longer for some kind of relief to > come for her. Her family have a lot of health problems as well. > > May Hashem bless you all. > > Cornie > > > > > mhyde wrote: > > > > > > > > I don?t think we will have a problem with being evangelistic. Because > there are very few who want to listen. Remember one from a family! In the > south tn. Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are not > interested in anything that subtracts form the deity of jesus. Paul speaks > with the voice of god and they will not study to show themselves approved. > Yes there are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting in church > are content with were they are. I have thought about going to jailhouse > and preach to them. But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue > scriptures if you tell them anything that is different then what they have > learned in Sunday school. In my part of the country, the people in jail > are like the ole cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then > switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after twenty years in the > trenches, they are not beating the doors down to get in. I would be > willing to venture a guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites > are from other countries and not form America. > > > > But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good visitation program and > they seem to be growing. Just kidding. > > > > In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. How do we pass this > on to them? Maybe, we don?t?? it is up to God to call who he will and open > blinded eyes of those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the > next generation? > > > > I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. Their were 4 > valedictorians, three of then you could not hear their speech, but the last > girl got up and begin to witness of her salvation and her relationship with > Jesus Christ and guess what?? someone controlling the sound turned it up > and you could hear every word of her ten minute sermon. She is on fire > for Jesus, and she has a 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole > sermon??. It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, Barbara, > when the church gets through with her, I wonder were she will be in five > years. Another young lady I know is 1 semester away form finished her > collage degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to china to win > the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder were she will be in 5 or 10 > years. My point, the church preys on the young to continue to keep their > program going?.. but as we get older many of us see the fallacies and the > lies, and the attitudes, and the deception. We then opt out. My personal > experience was that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study and > scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very good teachers along the > way. But I know many people still playing the game and going to church and > sitting there and reading their bibles because the preacher has nothing to > say. What a waste of time?.. > > > > I have no answer?. I have thought on this subject often these past couple > of years. How can we reach this younger generation? My Father has about > 60 % of his children tying to serve god is some way or other. But > everywhere I look around me I don?t see anybody batting that good with this > young generation(less then 30) maybe, I?m missing something?.. but I?m > believing that Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples > attention. > > > > I?m done venting?? but still with the question of how do we reach this > young generation with our message? Web if your out there I would be most > interested in your viewpoint, you have a unique story. > > > > Shalom, Ya?ll > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [ > mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] > *On Behalf Of *kim alvarado > *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Dialogue] Living the Shema > > > > I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and pasting posts listed > under the heading "Messiah and the Nations" > > > > Eliron, > > > > I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel that we should > focus on our families first...especially our children who are still at home. > In Judaism, the center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking > to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... If we have a "heart > for Torah", and don't pass that to our children, then we are not following > HaShem's commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be along the > lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to teach our children ...show us > how to be effective role models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have > told us that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others in our > community that are seeking your will that our children may grow and learn > together." > > > > BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list and SWW. We are > a community...a family. However, when it comes to our children, we need > more. > > > > > > In love, > > Kim > > - Hide quoted text - > > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 PM, wrote: > > - Hide quoted text - > > Hey James and all, > > > > We discussed some of these things yesterday morning as well at Temple > Sinai. One other "idea" has come up (and I can say has been popping up > periodically) regarding making others aware (especially our children) of > this awakening. > > > > Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a collective time in > prayer regarding this issue and then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be > decided, to brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with a very > appropriate approach. > > > > I must say that personally, I am very wary about anything that even looks > like evangelism. In addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of > the nations is something very different than G-d's people calling others > out. I'm not sure if that is a clear way to express my concern, if not > please say so. > > > > But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say that He will send out > fishers and hunters, I just think that if we are not careful, we will fall > into the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't think I need to > elaborate on that. > > > > What are y'all's thoughts on this? > > > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/3cba7c76/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Mon Jun 8 19:39:56 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 19:39:56 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Dear All In-Reply-To: <690519.98324.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <690519.98324.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A2DAF5C.4000100@mts.net> Interesting Susie It almost sounds like we could have just about crossed each others path. Of course Minnesota is big and relatively unfamiliar territory to me. But we, Mary and me visited our daughter close to Morris Minnesota about 2 weeks ago, they have a private, church run school closing where Martha, our daughter, was teacher in the upper grades. That is about 20 miles east of Morris, in case you know where that is. I guess it could be far away from you there. I also have a baby sister, single, living in Minneapolis, she is a home care nurse. Frozen tundra? I think I know what you are saying! We have finally put in a very late garden, and with the couple of warm days that got some things already finally coming up, we got tomatoes and peppers planted out, of all things just two days ago some of it got badly nipped by frost in June. But than some people wonder why we live in the north where only dog sleds are to be the transportation, well it is not quite that bad!!! We are OK. Oh yeh, Eric & Martha and their daughter LeAnne from Morris Minnesota were here for the last two nights. Cornie susie getskow wrote: > I find myself in the frozen tundra of my home state of Minnesota as my > Mom suffered a stroke on May 28. She will be 87 in August and has > lived an incredible independent life up to now. She has significant > loss on her left side but comes from strong and stubborn stock and is > working incredibly hard to get back to her status quo. Interestingly > enough it is times like this that should bring me closer to Hashem but > I feel somewhat disconnected right now. I am concentrating so hard on > every small improvement, every squeeze of Mom's hand and step that she > takes and making sure that her spirits stay high that I feel like > Hashem has taken a back seat. I am so thankful to you all that I can > jump on here and read you all to bring me back into focus. > > I loved the pictures of the Men's Retreat/Advance especially the men > blowing the shofar. I felt like I could hear the sound and it makes me > feel like I am getting to know who you are and what you look like. It > is good to have a mental image of what one looks like when writing > back and forth. I am currently about 50 miles from where James will be > holding his conference in July at St. Olaf college so if I am still > here I will try to get to it.( Northfield, Mn. is the home of > Malt-O-Meal and their sport teams are the Ollies with the appropiate > school song set to the tune of a Oomph Pah Pah.) > > Susie > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/42a1dfd6/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Mon Jun 8 19:57:43 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 19:57:43 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Dear All In-Reply-To: <5818D3FB65D1411B993BA759DDD3FE3C@bettylaptop> References: <690519.98324.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5818D3FB65D1411B993BA759DDD3FE3C@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <4A2DB387.5060303@mts.net> Betty I agree with your words to Susie, I had just written to Susie, I was so taken by surprised that they are so close to us, we live in southern Central Canada. So I actually forgot to mention how I can feel with her, since my dear sister is really having a very rough time of it at this time. Susie, I am praying for you and your mother, And let's just take Hanoch's article to heart, raising our hands heavenward palms up, in expectation of receiving in emuna, from our Great Creator Hashem, what ever you will need in your circumstance . Cornie Betty K Givin wrote: > > Dear Susie, > > Thanks so much for sharing with us. I do understand a bit of where > you are coming from right now and will pray for you as you try to > provide comfort and encouragement for your Mom. The role reversal that > many of us find ourselves in as our parents get older and more > dependant upon us is often difficult to cope with because it is so > unlike the relationship that we are used to with our parents. > > > > It may seem to you that HaShem has taken a back seat, but actually I > believe that He is right there beside you and with you in all this, > sharing your hurt and your wanting to help you thru your > disconnectedness. I have heard others say it and I believe it to be > true, that it is at the times when we feel most disconnected and less > like praying that this is the time when we need prayer the most. And > even if it is just a deep breath followed by a "please help me > HaShem!" He honors those prayers because He knows our hearts. The > words don't always come easily for us when we are feeling disconnected > and maybe even numb. > > > > I have often thought that the numbness is in a sense, a blessing in > that it is a coping mechanism to help us thru these times when we just > cannot understand or fathom what is happening at the time. > > When my Mom was so sick, I found myself reading a lot in the psalms > and it was really helpful because I could find expression for my > thoughts that I just couldn't put into words... > > > > I do hope that you will be able to attend the BAR conference at St. > Olaf college. You would love getting to meet James plus I think you > would enjoy the lectures very much and have the opportunity to learn > and meet many people. > > > > We love you and care about you, Susie. I will be praying for HaShem > to you to have an extra measure of strength and that you will be able > to impart encouragement and peace to your Mom. This has to be a scary > time for her. I will also pray for a "Refuah Shleimah," a complete > healing for her. Please keep us posted. > > > > Love and prayers, > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *susie getskow > *Sent:* Monday, June 08, 2009 8:18 AM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Dialogue] Dear All > > > > I find myself in the frozen tundra of my home state of Minnesota as my > Mom suffered a stroke on May 28. She will be 87 in August and has > lived an incredible independent life up to now. She has significant > loss on her left side but comes from strong and stubborn stock and is > working incredibly hard to get back to her status quo. Interestingly > enough it is times like this that should bring me closer to Hashem but > I feel somewhat disconnected right now. I am concentrating so hard on > every small improvement, every squeeze of Mom's hand and step that she > takes and making sure that her spirits stay high that I feel like > Hashem has taken a back seat. I am so thankful to you all that I can > jump on here and read you all to bring me back into focus. > > > > I loved the pictures of the Men's Retreat/Advance especially the men > blowing the shofar. I felt like I could hear the sound and it makes me > feel like I am getting to know who you are and what you look like. It > is good to have a mental image of what one looks like when writing > back and forth. I am currently about 50 miles from where James will be > holding his conference in July at St. Olaf college so if I am still > here I will try to get to it.( Northfield, Mn. is the home of > Malt-O-Meal and their sport teams are the Ollies with the appropiate > school song set to the tune of a Oomph Pah Pah.) > > > > Susie > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/6b00eece/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Mon Jun 8 20:10:50 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:10:50 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request In-Reply-To: <1c8dbb6e0906081724g47e3f864lef505af1036324b6@mail.gmail.com> References: <1c8dbb6e0905311935x5477681ey30f2fab6ecc9d61e@mail.gmail.com> <4A2ADD36.302@mts.net> <4A2C5C3B.6000102@mts.net> <4A2D04DE.60703@mts.net> <1c8dbb6e0906081724g47e3f864lef505af1036324b6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A2DB69A.7040800@mts.net> Kim, I think Tina has read that one too. But I agree, that one is very informative. Cornie kim alvarado wrote: > Do you have a copy of RAF to give her? It is a must read for anyone > seeking HaShem. > > Kim > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Cornie Reimer > wrote: > > > Thank you so much for being there in prayer for my dear sister. I > have to make a correction, the book that really touched my sister > was not RAF but the other one "The Jesus Dynasty" by the same > familiar author, James Tabor. That much Tina corrected me with > already. > > Cornie > > patricia robbins wrote: >> Cornie, I'm so sorry to hear about Tina's depression. May HaShem >> comfort and strengthen her. Thankfully you are there for >> her, just as she has been there for you. I know she loves and >> appreciates you very much, even when she is so sad it is hard to >> express feelings. I will continue to pray - for both of you Dear >> Ones. >> >> Love, >> >> Pat >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:32:59 -0500 >> From: cormary at mts.net >> To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] new prayer request >> >> Thank you Pat and all who have been praying for my sister, I just >> waited to send this off Pat, since I was hoping to hear from my >> sister again, which i have now, but sorry to say, she is on an >> anti- depressant drug right now and has a real struggle right >> now. I took her out for a meal when she was at her daughters >> place not far from here a week ago, and she hardly ate anything. >> I sent her some of your e-mails this morning. But i have not been >> able to know how she took them. I will let you know when i hear >> more. Thank you for the prayers. >> >> Cornie >> >> >> >> patricia robbins wrote: >> >> Cornie, >> >> Will certainly be praying for your sister, Tina, as well as >> her son-in-law, that they will be set free to cleave to our >> One and Only Savior, the G-d of Avraham, Yitzchak >> and Ya'acov. It's wonderful and encouraging to know that you >> are reaching out to these family members, and that they are >> hearing. I will remember to pray Is. 43:11 >> especially for Tina as you have said that she will learn to >> cast all her burdens on Him, and Him alone. >> >> >> I, even I, am the L-RD, and beside Me there is no savior. >> >> Isaiah 43:11 >> >> >> Shavua tov, Dear Friend, >> >> Avigail/Pat >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:18:46 -0500 >> From: cormary at mts.net >> To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >> Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request >> >> Marvin and all >> >> Marvin it seems like you were reading my mind. I feel just >> like you are mentioning about Christianity being sooo stuck >> on their thing. >> >> Here is a prayer petition for my sister. I don't know why I >> have kept this from you all for sooo long! I have one dear >> sister Tina, who has for years tried to understand and >> sympathize with my obnoxious to Christianities, views, but >> now that her very religious husband passed away within the >> last year, who was a very staunch "Jesus" supporter, who very >> stiffly opposed me. >> >> But since his passing away, making her a widow of around 76 >> years of age, this has been so tough on her, to the point of >> getting on her nerves. She thrived on me being there for her >> in her bereavement and lonesomeness. Yet she has her 10 very >> much Christian children, and children's children. I was >> trying to be very careful what to share with her, yet she was >> complaining that I had so many people to share my faith with >> by e-mail etc. And she had so little. Than I gave her a copy >> of James book on RESTORING ABRAHAMIC FAITH. Now it seems >> like that was such a BIG BOMBSHELL for her. She told me on >> the phone one day, that book took away my DEAR JESUS !!! WHAT >> SHALL I DO NOW? She can not dare to share it with any of her >> family. I think she has two preachers if not more as son >> in-laws, and they all want to sympathize with her, for the >> loss of her husband. But even though she was now freed up >> from a bondage under him. She is still tied down to the chain >> of a family bond under the same title!!!!! >> >> So please, please, if anyone can feel for her and has a heart >> to, please pray for her to know how to face life under her >> present predicament. I told her she didn't have to believe >> what seemed to convict her that life from here on would have >> to be without Jesus, on whom she had so much tried to just >> take all of her burdens and stress. >> >> One of her son-in-laws, who is a preacher, has already read >> the book "The Garden of Peace" by Rabbi Brody, and seemed to >> be quite enthused about it. So she got the idea, if i would >> send this one back to her, she would offer it: "RESTORING >> ABRAHAMIC FAITH to him, just to find out what would happen. >> Maybe hoping that he would help her bear a tooo heavy burden, >> to ease it off her shoulder, just too heavy for her alone. I >> am afraid that might almost react like coming up as a suicide >> bomber!!! >> >> I told her I was sorry for having caused her all this pain, >> but encouraged her to take her burden to the only saviour, >> like we read of in /* Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and >> beside me there is no saviour.*/ But I also told her maybe it >> would be a great idea to share that book with her son-in-law!!! >> >> Does anyone have a clue beside prayer, for coming to her >> aide? One way might be, for her to once in a while get an >> e-mail from some of you dear ones. So she could get a bond >> formed with you all in time eventually. I could share what >> you might answer me on this letter with her, and see if she >> would like to have an e-mail once in a while from whom she >> might choose. I know this is going to be very tender and >> touchy. She is just waiting for a Messiah to come and take >> us all away to higher ground. There is just too much at stake >> to wait much longer for some kind of relief to come for her. >> Her family have a lot of health problems as well. >> >> May Hashem bless you all. >> >> Cornie >> >> >> >> >> mhyde wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I don?t think we will have a problem with being >> evangelistic. Because there are very few who want to >> listen. Remember one from a family! In the south tn. >> Area were I am, these hard shell, funda ?mentalist, are >> not interested in anything that subtracts form the deity >> of jesus. Paul speaks with the voice of god and they >> will not study to show themselves approved. Yes there >> are a few here and a few there, but most people sitting >> in church are content with were they are. I have >> thought about going to jailhouse and preach to them. >> But, I know that these law breakers will want to argue >> scriptures if you tell them anything that is different >> then what they have learned in Sunday school. In my >> part of the country, the people in jail are like the ole >> cigarette commercial?? they would rather fight then >> switch. I guess I have a bad attitude. But, after >> twenty years in the trenches, they are not beating the >> doors down to get in. I would be willing to venture a >> guess, that most of the people who visit Ross web sites >> are from other countries and not form America. >> >> >> >> But then again, the Jehovah witness have a good >> visitation program and they seem to be growing. Just >> kidding. >> >> >> >> In all seriousness, I am concerned about our children. >> How do we pass this on to them? Maybe, we don?t?? it is >> up to God to call who he will and open blinded eyes of >> those he chooses. How do we pass our faith on to the >> next generation? >> >> >> >> I went to my youngest daughters HS graduation last week. >> Their were 4 valedictorians, three of then you could not >> hear their speech, but the last girl got up and begin to >> witness of her salvation and her relationship with Jesus >> Christ and guess what?? someone controlling the sound >> turned it up and you could hear every word of her ten >> minute sermon. She is on fire for Jesus, and she has a >> 4.042 GPA. I sat and listen to the same ole sermon??. >> It rings so hollow. I looked at the wife an said, >> Barbara, when the church gets through with her, I wonder >> were she will be in five years. Another young lady I >> know is 1 semester away form finished her collage >> degree. She is considering giving it all up to go to >> china to win the lost for Jesus. If she goes, I wonder >> were she will be in 5 or 10 years. My point, the church >> preys on the young to continue to keep their program >> going?.. but as we get older many of us see the >> fallacies and the lies, and the attitudes, and the >> deception. We then opt out. My personal experience was >> that I turned my zeal and desire for God toward study >> and scripture, and was lucky enough to meet some very >> good teachers along the way. But I know many people >> still playing the game and going to church and sitting >> there and reading their bibles because the preacher has >> nothing to say. What a waste of time?.. >> >> >> >> I have no answer?. I have thought on this subject often >> these past couple of years. How can we reach this >> younger generation? My Father has about 60 % of his >> children tying to serve god is some way or other. But >> everywhere I look around me I don?t see anybody batting >> that good with this young generation(less then 30) >> maybe, I?m missing something?.. but I?m believing that >> Hashem is going to have to do something to get peoples >> attention. >> >> >> >> I?m done venting?? but still with the question of how >> do we reach this young generation with our message? Web >> if your out there I would be most interested in your >> viewpoint, you have a unique story. >> >> >> >> Shalom, Ya?ll >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >> >> [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of >> *kim alvarado >> *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:36 PM >> *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >> >> *Subject:* [Dialogue] Living the Shema >> >> >> >> I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread and >> pasting posts listed under the heading "Messiah and the >> Nations" >> >> >> >> Eliron, >> >> >> >> I also have concerns about looking evangelistic...I feel >> that we should focus on our families first...especially >> our children who are still at home. In Judaism, the >> center of worship is in daily life in the home...speaking >> to our children when we lie down and when we rise up... >> If we have a "heart for Torah", and don't pass that to >> our children, then we are not following HaShem's >> commandment. My thought is that the prayer should be >> along the lines of "HaShem, we know that you want us to >> teach our children ...show us how to be effective role >> models and teachers of Torah. HaShem, you have told us >> that it is not good for us to be alone...led us to others >> in our community that are seeking your will that our >> children may grow and learn together." >> >> >> >> BTW This is in no way to take away from the dialogue list >> and SWW. We are a community...a family. However, when >> it comes to our children, we need more. >> >> >> >> >> >> In love, >> >> Kim >> >> - Hide quoted text - >> >> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:51 >> PM, > > wrote: >> >> - Hide quoted text - >> >> Hey James and all, >> >> >> >> We discussed some of these things yesterday morning >> as well at Temple Sinai. One other "idea" has come >> up (and I can say has been popping up periodically) >> regarding making others aware (especially our >> children) of this awakening. >> >> >> >> Kim called us and made a suggestion that we spend a >> collective time in prayer regarding this issue and >> then schedule a "chat" time, venue to be decided, to >> brainstorm ideas. I think it's a very good idea with >> a very appropriate approach. >> >> >> >> I must say that personally, I am very wary about >> anything that even looks like evangelism. In >> addition, to my mind, G-d's calling His people out of >> the nations is something very different than G-d's >> people calling others out. I'm not sure if that is a >> clear way to express my concern, if not please say so. >> >> >> >> But I am also very aware that the scriptures do say >> that He will send out fishers and hunters, I just >> think that if we are not careful, we will fall into >> the same traps that Christianity fell into. I don't >> think I need to elaborate on that. >> >> >> >> What are y'all's thoughts on this? >> >> >> >> -- >> Eliron/John. >> >> "Be excellent to each other!" >> Bill and Ted >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/d4ddd6e2/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Mon Jun 8 21:34:30 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] The American pressure has started... Message-ID: <556026.30339.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> AWESOME article Hanoch.? Susan --- On Mon, 6/8/09, carlson_john at bellsouth.net wrote: From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Dialogue] The American pressure has started... To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 6:53 PM At last!? The Obama administration declares itself openly. ? Maybe it's time Israel took a page out of Iran's and North Korea's book and stopped asking for "Permission" to do anything. ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ? -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- ?I wonder if the Soviets would be interested in selling us helicoptors?? Hmmm.... ???????????????????????????????????? Hanoch ? Administration blocks helicopters for Israel due to civilian casualties in Gaza - May 27, 2009 World Tribune.com WASHINGTON ? The Obama administration has blocked Israel`s request for advanced U.S.-origin attack helicopters. Government sources said the administration has held up Israel`s request for the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter. The sources said the request was undergoing an interagency review to determine whether additional Longbow helicopters would threaten Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip. "During the recent war, Israel made considerable use of the Longbow, and there were high civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip," a source close to the administration said. The sources said Israel has sought to purchase up to six new AH-64Ds in an effort to bolster conventional and counter-insurgency capabilities. They said Israel wants to replenish its fleet after the loss of two Apache helicopters in the 2006 war with Hizbullah. The Israel Air Force has also requested U.S. permission to integrate the Spike extended-range anti-tank missile into the AH-64D, Middle East Newsline reported. Spike ER, developed by the state-owned Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, has a range of eight kilometers and was installed on the Eurocopter Tiger and AgustaWestland A129 helicopters. The sources said the deployment of Spike would require integration into the Longbow`s millimeter-wave fire control and acquisition system. They said this would require permission from both Boeing and the U.S. government. Israel`s Defense Ministry and air force have discussed procurement of additional Longbows with the U.S. firm Boeing. But the sources said the Longbow as well as other defense requests have been shelved by the administration amid its review of the potential use of American weapons platforms by Israel. During his visit to the United States, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu also sought to win approval from the Defense Department for the installation of Israeli-origin electronic warfare systems in the Joint Strike Fighter. Netanyahu was said to have met Defense Secretary Robert Gates in a review of Israeli defense programs with the United States. Defense Minister Ehud Barak was scheduled to meet Gates in Washington in early June. 3965 W. 83rd. Street #292 Shawnee Mission, KS 66208 I Phone: 913.648.0022 I Fax: 913.648.7997 This site is designed for standards compliant browsers. If your browser is not standards compliant, download one here. Website copyright ? 2006. Unity Coalition for Israel. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090608/f0ba0f62/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 9 02:11:37 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:11:37 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] The American pressure has started... In-Reply-To: <855590370906081700q3d7700c8s34f64263b568072d@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370906081640l316bd86bg5f88bc7923a0f96d@mail.gmail.com><060820092353.3206.4A2DA495000963D100000C8622218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <855590370906081700q3d7700c8s34f64263b568072d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <060920090711.22870.4A2E0B280004F6330000595622216128369B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Man, The more I think about this the more it aggravates me, even though I am not surprised. The fact that they are refusing to support the sale is expected, but the stated reason is entirely transparent, hypocritical and sophmoric. During the Cast Lead operation, the US position was consistently supportive of Israel's right to defend herself and when the first complaints arose regarding civilian casualties, we were at best, silent. Since that time, several countries have tried to attack Israel's response through the UN, lawsuits and even criminal indictments against her Generals. We remained silent. This is no surprise! At least once a week we hear of "collateral damage" inflicted by the US during operations in Iraq, Pakistan or Afghanistan in our self-righteous "War-on-Terror" or whatever we are calling it this week. To accuse or question Israel would make us look like arrogant hypocrites, yet here we are. That means that this is clearly a political response to Bibi's resistance of Obama's demand that settlement expansion be stopped. The rest of the world is not blind to these facts. We are going to wind up caught in our own trap with no credibility to lead the world anywhere. Obama's going to outsmart himself and he is going to take US with him. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Hey John - You know, if Israel is unable to purchase (or manufacture) the appropriate conventional weapons, then they may have NO CHOICE but to resort to their alleged unconventional arsenal..... No let's see how Hilary and her boss like THAT! Hanoch On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 7:53 PM, wrote: At last! The Obama administration declares itself openly. Maybe it's time Israel took a page out of Iran's and North Korea's book and stopped asking for "Permission" to do anything. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- I wonder if the Soviets would be interested in selling us helicoptors? Hmmm.... Hanoch Administration blocks helicopters for Israel due to civilian casualties in Gaza - May 27, 2009 World Tribune.com WASHINGTON ? The Obama administration has blocked Israel`s request for advanced U.S.-origin attack helicopters. Government sources said the administration has held up Israel`s request for the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter. The sources said the request was undergoing an interagency review to determine whether additional Longbow helicopters would threaten Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip. "During the recent war, Israel made considerable use of the Longbow, and there were high civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip," a source close to the administration said. The sources said Israel has sought to purchase up to six new AH-64Ds in an effort to bolster conventional and counter-insurgency capabilities. They said Israel wants to replenish its fleet after the loss of two Apache helicopters in the 2006 war with Hizbullah. The Israel Air Force has also requested U.S. permission to integrate the Spike extended-range anti-tank missile into the AH-64D, Middle East Newsline reported. Spike ER, developed by the state-owned Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, has a range of eight kilometers and was installed on the Eurocopter Tiger and AgustaWestland A129 helicopters. The sources said the deployment of Spike would require integration into the Longbow`s millimeter-wave fire control and acquisition system. They said this would require permission from both Boeing and the U.S. government. Israel`s Defense Ministry and air force have discussed procurement of additional Longbows with the U.S. firm Boeing. But the sources said the Longbow as well as other defense requests have been shelved by the administration amid its review of the potential use of American weapons platforms by Israel. During his visit to the United States, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu also sought to win approval from the Defense Department for the installation of Israeli-origin electronic warfare systems in the Joint Strike Fighter. Netanyahu was said to have met Defense Secretary Robert Gates in a review of Israeli defense programs with the United States. Defense Minister Ehud Barak was scheduled to meet Gates in Washington in early June. 3965 W. 83rd. Street #292 Shawnee Mission, KS 66208 I Phone: 913.648.0022 I Fax: 913.648.7997 This site is designed for standards compliant browsers. If your browser is not standards compliant, download one here. Website copyright ? 2006. Unity Coalition for Israel. _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/9702e380/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 9 02:29:36 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:29:36 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer... In-Reply-To: <855590370906080448l2f550170x27054642db2bdace@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <060920090729.1352.4A2E0F5F0003F4CD0000054822216128369B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> I don't know Hanoch. I guess I'm still in the camp of simply and plainly stating our case before him and then being quiet so that we can hear the answer. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Boker tov L'Kulam, I just saw this note, which I think helps connect our prayers with the appropriate visualization; making it more meaningful, and hopefully, even more effective then they could have been! It's from the Mystical Paths website... Hanoch '??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??" ????? ?"?,?" (91 days..) "Let us go up an inherit the Land of Israel, for we are surely able" Numbers 13:30 Prayer by Reb Gutman Locks at Mystical Paths Prayer has to become genuine, alive. One very small but meaningful gesture is, when saying the words, ?You open Your hand and satisfy the desire of every living thing,?[i] to turn your palms upward as if you are trying to receive what it is He is giving. Why are you facing your palms upward? Because you truly believe that G-d?s hand is open and He is trying to give you something. And you are opening your hand heavenward because you want to receive His gifts. This shows that you really believe the words that you are saying. There are many religious Jews who can tell you where every prayer is written and many can even repeat them by heart, but there are very few who can tell you what they actually mean. Often people ask what can be done to improve their concentration during prayer. They complain that their minds keep wandering off the subject onto other totally unrelated things. Really, there is only one thing that you can do when this happens. As soon as you realize that you are off the subject, gently return. Again and again, quietly return to what you want to be concentrating on. This is like a weightlifter who continually picks up his weights, again and again. Each time you return to the subject you get a little stronger. There is another easy thing you can do that will help make your prayers more interesting, and actually more effective. Whatever you pray for, briefly imagine it coming into being. This means that when you are davening the Amidah (the standing, silent prayers), as you are finishing one of the 19 established prayers, such as, ?Blessed are You . . . Who rebuilds Jerusalem,? or ??Who heals the sick,? briefly picture what you are praying for to happen. In these two cases you could picture Jerusalem, including the Third Temple, made entirely out of brightly shining gold, floating down from Heaven settling over and filling the present-day Jerusalem. Or, when praying for the sick, picture the sick jumping out of their wheelchairs, throwing away their crutches, and dancing down the street. ?Think good and it will be good.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/53e34f0d/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 9 02:38:23 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:38:23 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.] In-Reply-To: <4A2CBFCA.2010009@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <060920090738.6503.4A2E116F0005B4DD0000196722216128369B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Thank you Joe. Personally, I'm hoping that this will be a sweet savor for His nostrils. (I was beginning to think you were mad at me you didn't answer some of my last responses to you, it was awhile ago). -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shalom Eliron and Hannah, count me in, all the way. I have no children, however I will pray for all my G-d children and all the children of all the wonderful people on the dialogue list. A special prayer should be made for the babes of Torah, that they should be nurtured by the milk of Torah, comforted and encouraged by the veterans. I will be with y'all next Erev Shabbat in spirit and in the truth of Torah. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/776ef1c7/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jun 9 05:58:34 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:58:34 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Dear All] Message-ID: <4A2E405A.3070404@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/e7338d65/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: susie getskow Subject: [Dialogue] Dear All Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 06:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Size: 7200 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/e7338d65/attachment.eml From chcashmore at hotmail.com Tue Jun 9 06:05:38 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:05:38 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] new prayer request Message-ID: Cornie, I think many of us would be able to relate to those feelings of loss when you pull against mainstream Christian roots and move towards the truth of HaShem. Perhaps Tina would feel better if she understood that she is not losing something, but gaining a key into a depth of wisdom that is never ending and wonderful. She doesn't have to give upon Yeshua, it's simply a road to a better understanding of who he really is/was - and then opening up to differing views and beliefs that can lead to understand and communicate with each other better and also help foster a path toward truth and wisdom. I'm not really the one to recommend other books about the historical Jesus - aside from the Jesus Dynasty which I loved I haven't read many others - however there must be something else out there that would help her move past these feelings off loss. Perhaps someone else can recommend another good book aside from what she has already read? Meanwhile you have my prayers. You are a dear caring man, and I hope we can help you through this and enable you to help Tina with our prayers and encouragement. Keep us updated on how things progress Cornie. Much love, Catherine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/7675850a/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jun 9 06:06:36 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:06:36 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24]] Message-ID: <4A2E423C.2000307@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/c63b5c43/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: susie getskow Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Exodus 12 - 24] Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 06:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Size: 8438 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/c63b5c43/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jun 9 06:08:52 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:08:52 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] "Neighborhood Bully"] Message-ID: <4A2E42C4.2020902@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/f0599e3c/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Hanoch Young Subject: [Dialogue] "Neighborhood Bully" Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:54:52 -0400 Size: 10216 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/f0599e3c/attachment.eml From mhyde7 at tds.net Tue Jun 9 06:16:38 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 07:16:38 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Interesting Information. In-Reply-To: <060320090500.21809.4A2603590008E74A0000553122230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <060220091608.20097.4A254E92000088C100004E8122193100029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net><389B90816CCF4F28B7848DB0D5D41EF6@MarvinLT> <060320090500.21809.4A2603590008E74A0000553122230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: I agree John, Although form before the election, my opinion of Obama is that he is a dark horse of the apocalyptic style in Revelation, I still understand Hashem is pulling his strings, just like Pharaoh in Egypt. Even if we are to repeat history I think we should be aware of what is going on. Does that help us prepare? I think so, even if the preparation is only in our mental state. I have a couple of Christian Minister brothers that are so funny, yet so sad to watch, as they live their life's in such a dualistic way they have very little touch with the reality of the world around them. By the way John, got the CD in the mail yesterday. Thanks, marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:00 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Interesting Information. I don't know Marvin. But when I turn on the news these days I find myself continually amazed by the direction we are taking and it's parallels with what I know of the fall of the Weimar Republic. But I am certain that Mr.Obama is not the sole player in all of this. I just think that we need to raise our vigilance with regard to the actions of our government as well as strengthen our skepticism of it's supposed benevolence or we may find ourselves repeating history. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "mhyde" : -------------- Hey John, Do you think there is correlation or similarity between hitler and volkswagon and Obama and GMC (government motors corporation).? _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:09 PM To: Dialogue Subject: [Dialogue] Interesting Information. I've never been one for conspiracy theories but I have to say that sometimes trusting in men's motives and not paying attention to what is going on around us can take us by surprise. Here are a couple of interesting things I've learned recently; Did y'all know that one of the first things Hitler did when he came to power was found the Volkswagon car company with Ferdinand Porshe and the name Volkswagon itself was intended to endear Hitler to the German public as a provider for the people (Peoples Automobile). Also, I don't know how many of you own weapons but I own a couple of handguns. I just recently found out that ammunition for them is getting very, very scarce. In a discussion with a friend of mine who is a reliable source of info on this subject I learned the reason for this. I didn't know this but it seems that the primary source of brass used to make cartridges is the federal government. Ammunition manufacturers are having a difficult time obtaining brass these days because most of it is being sold to China. Now I'm not saying that this has actually been planned out this way but it seems to me that if those who want to restrict handgun ownership in this country can't find a way through the Constitution to do so, this would be a very effective alernative. Guns aren't much use without ammunition. I think it may behoove us to start moving around the furniture and peering into the dark corners to see what kind of critters are taking up residence in our house, before they chew away the foundation. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/8c3f761d/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Tue Jun 9 06:23:00 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 06:23:00 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Dear All] In-Reply-To: <4A2E405A.3070404@westnet.com.au> References: <4A2E405A.3070404@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <4A2E4614.3000605@mts.net> Amen Joe, so often you can bring into words, what I simply can't, but heartily agree. Cornie JOE INDOMENICO wrote: > /Shalom Susie, > > it is very sad to hear about your mother's condition. > My prayers and heartfelt sympathy goes out to the lonely soul of the > frozen tundra. I guess it is something that I have never experienced , > having always lived in the warmer regions of the world. > However, I have experienced the questioning and disconnection that you > are currently going through. > It feels like you are in a vacuum to some degree. > Be assured that HaShem never leaves you. > It is our own emotional state that betray us. > We sometimes look to HaShem for the big things and miss the little > things that are just important. > I can reassure you that the very things that you are doing, the little > things like "/I am concentrating so hard on every small improvement, > every squeeze of Mom's hand and step that she takes and making sure > that her spirits stay high /" are Heaven sent. > HaShem has not taken a back, He is in the front seat operating through > you. > Just think back to when you were a toddler and the reassurance that > you had when your mother squeezed your little hand. > Think of the comfort you felt. > Think of the joy your mother had when she saw you take your first steps. > HaShem is giving you a wonderful opportunity for reciprocal love. > Embrace it with all your might and savour every sweet moment that your > beloved mother has left in this world. > It will be a blessing not only for her but will leave you a blessing > behind. Baruch HaShem for His tender mercies. > > My prayers are with you. > > *Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > */ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > [Dialogue] Dear All > From: > susie getskow > Date: > Mon, 8 Jun 2009 06:17:44 -0700 (PDT) > To: > dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > > To: > dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > > > I find myself in the frozen tundra of my home state of Minnesota as my > Mom suffered a stroke on May 28. She will be 87 in August and has > lived an incredible independent life up to now. She has significant > loss on her left side but comes from strong and stubborn stock and is > working incredibly hard to get back to her status quo. Interestingly > enough it is times like this that should bring me closer to Hashem but > I feel somewhat disconnected right now. I am concentrating so hard on > every small improvement, every squeeze of Mom's hand and step that she > takes and making sure that her spirits stay high that I feel like > Hashem has taken a back seat. I am so thankful to you all that I can > jump on here and read you all to bring me back into focus. > > I loved the pictures of the Men's Retreat/Advance especially the men > blowing the shofar. I felt like I could hear the sound and it makes me > feel like I am getting to know who you are and what you look like. It > is good to have a mental image of what one looks like when writing > back and forth. I am currently about 50 miles from where James will be > holding his conference in July at St. Olaf college so if I am still > here I will try to get to it.( Northfield, Mn. is the home of > Malt-O-Meal and their sport teams are the Ollies with the appropiate > school song set to the tune of a Oomph Pah Pah.) > > Susie > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/c2370653/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Tue Jun 9 06:23:23 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 07:23:23 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Duplicate emails In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No Betty. But it's always great hearing from you.. and hearing from you... And hearing form you. _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Betty K Givin Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:24 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Duplicate emails Friends, I do not know what is going on with my "duplicate" emails. I will have to call Verizon on Monday to see what's up because I keep getting this weird message that my message will not be sent. I close the message and then find that it sends it twice. Anybody else ever have this problem? Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/cd6f9cc4/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 06:29:18 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 07:29:18 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] "Neighborhood Bully"] In-Reply-To: <4A2E42C4.2020902@westnet.com.au> References: <4A2E42C4.2020902@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <855590370906090429u51384454p9577186327c6c766@mail.gmail.com> Hey Joe - Glad to introduce it to you! :-) I'm not a huge Dylan fan (James is, as is Dave Tyler, but Rav Chaim Richman of the Temple Institute is an INSANE fan, BTW...), since I was pretty young when he got very popular (hard to imagine me young, huh?!?). It's a LOT better then his, "...it might be the Devil, or it might be the L-rd, but you've got to serve somebody..." stuff, as far as I'm concerned! :-) Have a great day, mate! * Hanoch* On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:08 AM, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: > *Shalom Hanoch, > > great lyrics!!!! > I have never heard this song before....... so I got on You Tube and had a > listen. > I am hooked. > > Todah Rabbah, Mate. > On my favourite list now. > > b'Ahavat Yehudah v'Yisrael > JOE. > * > > As in so many areas of life, Bob Dylan's lyrics just call it as it > is.....my personal favorite, from the 'Infidels' album: > * Hanoch* > Neighborhood Bully by Bob Dylan > > Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man, > His enemies say he's on their land. > They got him outnumbered about a million to one, > He got no place to escape to, no place to run. > He's the neighborhood bully. > > The neighborhood bully just lives to survive, > He's criticized and condemned for being alive. > He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin, > He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in. > He's the neighborhood bully. > > The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land, > He's wandered the earth an exiled man. > Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn, > He's always on trial for just being born. > He's the neighborhood bully. > > Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized, > Old women condemned him, said he should apologize. > Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad. > The bombs were meant for him. > He was supposed to feel bad. > He's the neighborhood bully. > > Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim > That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him, > 'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back > And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac. > He's the neighborhood bully. > > He got no allies to really speak of. > What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love. > He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied > But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side. > He's the neighborhood bully. > > Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace, > They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease. > Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly. > To hurt one they would weep. > They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep. > He's the neighborhood bully. > > Every empire that's enslaved him is gone, > Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon. > He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand, > In bed with nobody, under no one's command. > He's the neighborhood bully. > > Now his holiest books have been trampled upon, > No contract he signed was worth what it was written on. > He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth, > Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health. > He's the neighborhood bully. > > What's anybody indebted to him for? > Nothin', they say. > He just likes to cause war. > Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed, > They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed. > He's the neighborhood bully. > > What has he done to wear so many scars? > Does he change the course of rivers? > Does he pollute the moon and stars? > Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill, > Running out the clock, time standing still, > Neighborhood bully. > > Copyright ?1983 Special Rider Music > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/5261f663/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jun 9 06:41:08 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:41:08 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.]] Message-ID: <4A2E4A54.2020401@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/50977496/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.] Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:38:23 +0000 Size: 6148 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/50977496/attachment.eml From chcashmore at hotmail.com Tue Jun 9 06:53:05 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:53:05 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Dear All Message-ID: Dearest Susie Please know HaShem is with you, and through our prayers and love I know He will continue to reach out to you and your dear dear mother. She sounds like such a brave lady and her body will heal and recover little by little each day. Have faith and know we have you in our thoughts and hearts and most importantly, our prayers. I can feel your pain in the words you write, and as I go to sleep tonight (which will be very soon) I will hold you and your mother in my heart and pray she is healed and you both gain the comfort you need. Much love. In Hope, Catherine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/e64b350a/attachment.html From chcashmore at hotmail.com Tue Jun 9 06:59:41 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:59:41 +1000 Subject: Fw: [Dialogue] Dear All Message-ID: Inspired by the post on Prayer from Hanoch and the quote "Think good and it will be good" - I was Googling for some articles on Faith, and came across these words on Chabad.org I thought they may help you Susie (they lifted me - I sent the article to my Dad in hope that it will help him as well) by - Chaya Abelsky, Faith is not a relinquishing of responsibility. It is not an excuse for inaction that allows us to say, "The situation is out of my hands, G-d will look after it." On the contrary, it is only when we push ourselves to the limit of our own abilities that we begin to experience true faith. Faith is the confidence of knowing that having reached a point at which we can honestly say we have done all that we can, that everything else - all that is not within our own control - will look after itself. But this confidence we experience is not faith itself, it is a result of faith. Faith is more than just a mind set. Faith is not merely something inside us, an emotion we experience like joy or satisfaction. Faith reaches out beyond us and transforms the world around us. When we approach the world with faith, it is a power that flows from a deep well within each of us. A power that flows outside ourselves and actually orchestrates the events of our world the way we need them to be. There is a Yiddish expression that goes "Tracht gut vet zein gut" - Think good and it will be good. It is explained in our deepest mystical teachings that our thoughts can change the world. The expression "Think good and it will be good" is not just a way of saying "Hope for the best" or "Stay positive". It is a profound teaching about the impact of our thoughts in creating and shaping our world. Faith in a positive outcome is the beginning of the solution. Given what appears to be a hopelessly impossible situation, faith is the power to wrestle with the force of opposition that blocks what we need to accomplish. Fighting against impossible odds with our intellect alone almost inevitably makes us closed and bitter. We shut ourselves away from others in our despair. But faith is the power to remain positive and open in the face of the most stifling adversity. The heart of one person reflects the heart of the otherIn Judaism, our Sages teach that just as water reflects the face, so too the heart of one person reflects the heart of the other. If we approach adversity with faith and confidence, we are already halfway towards achieving it. How many have experienced this? Many of us have experienced situations when we refused to be defeated or give up hope. And not only did people respond more openly, but the world itself seemed to open up. This is a profound secret of faith that is the key to unlocking the world's most valuable treasures. Judaism teaches that G-d established all forces in creation as a balance of opposites. In science, it is well known that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Opposition is not simply something negative. It is a sign that the outcome will make a difference. The greater the forces that fight against what you are seeking to accomplish, the greater the result must be in tipping the scale of deeds in the world to the side of good. When seen through the clarity of faith, impossible odds no longer overwhelm us. They instead spur us on by revealing that what we are doing matters. But why should it be like this? If G-d loves us and wants the best for us, why make it so difficult? The answer reveals the meaning behind one of life's great mysteries: why those who are good often suffer and those who are corrupt appear to prosper. We were not put in this world to do what comes easily. We were put here to achieve the impossible. And impossible is not some objective thing outside ourselves. Actually, the impossible is measured by us. So many things that were impossible when I was a child are now simple. Children overcome the impossible every day, learning to walk, talk, read, write, to become sensitive to the feelings of others. These are all such incredible achievements. While G-d could have created a world in which there was nothing that opposed goodness and kindness, we would have been missing out on G-d's greatest gift to us: the ability to find resources within ourselves greater than we previously realized were there. The things we treasure are precisely those things that we worked so hard forThings of little worth can be found easily. The surface of the world is covered in dirt and stones. But to find diamonds, one has to dig deep, to break through layer upon layer of the hardest rock, to get to its core. We are no different. The things that come easily to us are usually worth very little. The things we treasure are precisely those things that we worked so hard for. This is why G-d makes the lives of good people difficult. Because good people make a difference. And at the end of the day, it is their victory over the forces of darkness and despair that is the source of profound satisfaction. Having gone to the point of breaking but still retaining strength, we discover that we are not as fragile as we imagined. We are ready to face tomorrow with even greater challenges that will reveal even greater strength in us. Faith transforms us by transforming the world around us. Opposition becomes a motivating challenge and adversity is turned into opportunity to reveal greater personal resources. When we are successful, we become more than we were before. And when we reveal this new power, the world becomes a better place because of it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/95b4c77b/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Tue Jun 9 08:42:38 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 06:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] "Neighborhood Bully"] Message-ID: <634946.20560.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks Hanoch for sharing this song.? I too went to you tube and I have to agree with Joe it is definetly a favorit.? Dyland always did have a way with words.? What ever happened to him.? Is he still on his path with HaShem as a Jew? ? Susan --- On Tue, 6/9/09, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: From: JOE INDOMENICO Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] "Neighborhood Bully"] To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 6:08 AM Shalom Hanoch, great lyrics!!!! I have never heard this song before....... so I got on You Tube and had a listen. I am hooked. Todah Rabbah, Mate. On my favourite list now. b'Ahavat Yehudah v'Yisrael JOE. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/b6315cba/attachment.html From oneillcody at yahoo.com Tue Jun 9 09:15:16 2009 From: oneillcody at yahoo.com (cody oneill) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 07:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] =?utf-8?q?Al_Arabiya=2C_Al_Jazeera_=E2=80=A6_but_wher?= =?utf-8?b?ZeKAmXMgQWwgSXNyYWVsYT8=?= Message-ID: <564741.3779.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tuesday, June 9, 2009Al Arabiya, Al Jazeera ? but where?s Al Israela?We?ve come to understand that the way in which Israel?s military conflicts are portrayed in the media constitute another front in the war against her;? one which she is losing ground on.Over the past few decades, each time that Israel is obliged to defend itself, its citizens or its interests (or trample over the Middle East in hob-nailed boots, depending on who you listen to) the call has gone out for a global TV news/current affairs channel that reflects the Israeli case and perspective on events.The need for such a channel became blindingly obvious during the?1st Hezbollah War (2006)?and again during the?1st Hamas War (2009), but on each occasion the awareness appears to have faded before any concrete steps were taken.I was therefore please to come across this reference (on Twitter) to a proposed??Israel World TV??service. According to the Twitter bio:Israel World News will be a global cable news network based out of Jerusalem. Click on?the URL?to view the demo [File Size: 95.34 MB]. Investment info. available.Additional information regarding Israel World News Television is contained in?this Press Release.So, will this be Israel?s answer ? not just to?Al Arabiya?and?Al Jazeera?and the like ? but also to BBC World News, CNN, FOXNews and Sky News (my personal favourite), all of whose coverage of Israel tends to be tilted against her to a greater or lesser extent? Let?s hope so. If not, then perhaps other initiatives to establish?what I?ve come to refer to?as the?"Al Israela" cable/satellite TV channel?will eventually bear fruit.As always, I have a few thoughts regarding the outlines of such a service:It should be available worldwideIt should be free-to-airIt should broadcast 24 hours a day, 7 days a weekIt should eventually broadcast in all the major world languages (starting with English and other European languages)It should be available as a conventional TV broadcast in Israel and the Middle East, and as a cable/satellite TV channel worldwide (without subscription)Anyone with a suitable satellite dish should be able to tune in to the station, but strenuous efforts should also be made to have it included in as many cable/satellite TV bouquets as possible worldwideSome observers have pointed out that a wealth of video material with a?Hasbaraorientation is available from various Israeli and Jewish video websites. This is not the answer, or at least not yet. This material is only available to those with a computer (or with easy access to one) and a broadband Internet connection. A TV set (with or without a satellite dish) on the other hand, is almost ubiquitous, at least in the Western world. In addition, these services rely on the user ?pulling? the material to him/her; the desirable model is for the material to be ?pushed? out on the airwaves. (This is not to say that these clips and inserts (in some cases fully-fledged programs) should not be made available for re-broadcast on Al Israela; that would be the best of both worlds.)In the meantime, the answer to my question??Will @IsraelWorldNews finally give us an "Al Israela" cable/satellite TV channel???was??Soon!?. Let's hope so! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/313caf46/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jun 9 09:37:19 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:37:19 -0400 Subject: =?Windows-1252?Q?RE:_[Dialo?= =?Windows-1252?Q?gue]_Al_Ar?= =?Windows-1252?Q?abiya=2C_Al_?= =?Windows-1252?Q?Jazeera_=85_?= =?Windows-1252?Q?but_where=92?= =?Windows-1252?Q?s_Al_Israe?= =?Windows-1252?Q?la=3F?= In-Reply-To: <564741.3779.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <564741.3779.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MAY WE ALL BE WATCHING ISRAEL WORLD NEWS IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE!!!!! We REALLY need to have the Truth broadcast 24/7 from the Center of the Earth to our homes all over the world! May our Creator, L-RD and Sustainer bless the efforts of all those endeavoring to make this News Station a present reality. Avigail Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 07:15:16 -0700 From: oneillcody at yahoo.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Al Arabiya, Al Jazeera ? but where?s Al Israela? Tuesday, June 9, 2009 Al Arabiya, Al Jazeera ? but where?s Al Israela? We?ve come to understand that the way in which Israel?s military conflicts are portrayed in the media constitute another front in the war against her; one which she is losing ground on. Over the past few decades, each time that Israel is obliged to defend itself, its citizens or its interests (or trample over the Middle East in hob-nailed boots, depending on who you listen to) the call has gone out for a global TV news/current affairs channel that reflects the Israeli case and perspective on events. The need for such a channel became blindingly obvious during the 1st Hezbollah War (2006) and again during the 1st Hamas War (2009), but on each occasion the awareness appears to have faded before any concrete steps were taken. I was therefore please to come across this reference (on Twitter) to a proposed ?Israel World TV? service. According to the Twitter bio: Israel World News will be a global cable news network based out of Jerusalem. Click on the URL to view the demo [File Size: 95.34 MB]. Investment info. available. Additional information regarding Israel World News Television is contained in this Press Release. So, will this be Israel?s answer ? not just to Al Arabiya and Al Jazeera and the like ? but also to BBC World News, CNN, FOXNews and Sky News (my personal favourite), all of whose coverage of Israel tends to be tilted against her to a greater or lesser extent? Let?s hope so. If not, then perhaps other initiatives to establish what I?ve come to refer to as the "Al Israela" cable/satellite TV channel will eventually bear fruit. As always, I have a few thoughts regarding the outlines of such a service: It should be available worldwide It should be free-to-air It should broadcast 24 hours a day, 7 days a week It should eventually broadcast in all the major world languages (starting with English and other European languages) It should be available as a conventional TV broadcast in Israel and the Middle East, and as a cable/satellite TV channel worldwide (without subscription) Anyone with a suitable satellite dish should be able to tune in to the station, but strenuous efforts should also be made to have it included in as many cable/satellite TV bouquets as possible worldwide Some observers have pointed out that a wealth of video material with a Hasbaraorientation is available from various Israeli and Jewish video websites. This is not the answer, or at least not yet. This material is only available to those with a computer (or with easy access to one) and a broadband Internet connection. A TV set (with or without a satellite dish) on the other hand, is almost ubiquitous, at least in the Western world. In addition, these services rely on the user ?pulling? the material to him/her; the desirable model is for the material to be ?pushed? out on the airwaves. (This is not to say that these clips and inserts (in some cases fully-fledged programs) should not be made available for re-broadcast on Al Israela; that would be the best of both worlds.) In the meantime, the answer to my question ?Will @IsraelWorldNews finally give us an "Al Israela" cable/satellite TV channel?? was ?Soon!?. Let's hope so! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/2510adb3/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 9 09:52:58 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:52:58 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] "Neighborhood Bully"] In-Reply-To: <855590370906090429u51384454p9577186327c6c766@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A2E42C4.2020902@westnet.com.au><855590370906090429u51384454p9577186327c6c766@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1359539018-1244559642-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1256653329-@bxe1160.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Count me in with James, Dave and the Reb. I learned to play guitar on his stuff. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Hanoch Young Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 07:29:18 To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] "Neighborhood Bully"] _______________________________________________ From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 9 09:58:54 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:58:54 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] "Neighborhood Bully"] In-Reply-To: <634946.20560.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <634946.20560.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <545008903-1244559649-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-128401978-@bxe1160.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Last I heard, he attends a Christian (Vinyard) church in California. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: susan strickland Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 06:42:38 To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] "Neighborhood Bully"] _______________________________________________ From beartrm at yahoo.com Tue Jun 9 10:37:07 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 08:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: =?utf-8?B?UkU6IFtEaWFsb2d1ZV0gQWwgQXJhYml5YSwgQWwgSmF6ZWVyYSDigKYgYnV0?= =?utf-8?B?IHdoZXJl4oCZcyBBbCBJc3JhZWxhPw==?= Message-ID: <988415.14317.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I was watching?G-d's Learning Channel last night and they had a survey which blew me away.? They said there were still abt. 49% of the Jewish community that were still hoping for peace with the Palestinian's and if that meant shutting down the settlements so be it.? I pray Hanoch and all others returning to Isreal soon will be able to have an impact on those they come in contact with.? Susan --- On Tue, 6/9/09, patricia robbins wrote: From: patricia robbins Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Al Arabiya, Al Jazeera ? but where?s Al Israela? To: "dialogue at rootsoffaith.org" Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 9:37 AM #yiv1580779763 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv1580779763 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} MAY?WE ALL BE WATCHING ISRAEL WORLD NEWS IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE!!!!!? We REALLY?need?to have the Truth broadcast 24/7?from the Center of the Earth to our homes all over the world!? May?our Creator, L-RD and Sustainer bless the efforts of all those endeavoring to make this?News Station?a present reality.? ? Avigail ? Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 07:15:16 -0700 From: oneillcody at yahoo.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Al Arabiya, Al Jazeera ? but where?s Al Israela? Tuesday, June 9, 2009 Al Arabiya, Al Jazeera ? but where?s Al Israela? We?ve come to understand that the way in which Israel?s military conflicts are portrayed in the media constitute another front in the war against her;? one which she is losing ground on. Over the past few decades, each time that Israel is obliged to defend itself, its citizens or its interests (or trample over the Middle East in hob-nailed boots, depending on who you listen to) the call has gone out for a global TV news/current affairs channel that reflects the Israeli case and perspective on events. The need for such a channel became blindingly obvious during the?1st Hezbollah War (2006)?and again during the?1st Hamas War (2009), but on each occasion the awareness appears to have faded before any concrete steps were taken. I was therefore please to come across this reference (on Twitter) to a proposed??Israel World TV??service. According to the Twitter bio: Israel World News will be a global cable news network based out of Jerusalem. Click on?the URL?to view the demo [File Size: 95.34 MB]. Investment info. available. Additional information regarding Israel World News Television is contained in?this Press Release. So, will this be Israel?s answer ? not just to?Al Arabiya?and?Al Jazeera?and the like ? but also to BBC World News, CNN, FOXNews and Sky News (my personal favourite), all of whose coverage of Israel tends to be tilted against her to a greater or lesser extent? Let?s hope so. If not, then perhaps other initiatives to establish?what I?ve come to refer to?as the?"Al Israela" cable/satellite TV channel?will eventually bear fruit. As always, I have a few thoughts regarding the outlines of such a service: It should be available worldwide It should be free-to-air It should broadcast 24 hours a day, 7 days a week It should eventually broadcast in all the major world languages (starting with English and other European languages) It should be available as a conventional TV broadcast in Israel and the Middle East, and as a cable/satellite TV channel worldwide (without subscription) Anyone with a suitable satellite dish should be able to tune in to the station, but strenuous efforts should also be made to have it included in as many cable/satellite TV bouquets as possible worldwide Some observers have pointed out that a wealth of video material with a?Hasbaraorientation is available from various Israeli and Jewish video websites. This is not the answer, or at least not yet. This material is only available to those with a computer (or with easy access to one) and a broadband Internet connection. A TV set (with or without a satellite dish) on the other hand, is almost ubiquitous, at least in the Western world. In addition, these services rely on the user ?pulling? the material to him/her; the desirable model is for the material to be ?pushed? out on the airwaves. (This is not to say that these clips and inserts (in some cases fully-fledged programs) should not be made available for re-broadcast on Al Israela; that would be the best of both worlds.) In the meantime, the answer to my question??Will @IsraelWorldNews finally give us an "Al Israela" cable/satellite TV channel???was??Soon!?. Let's hope so! -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/47f7e23e/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Tue Jun 9 10:49:36 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 08:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer... Message-ID: <923164.80234.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hanoch, ? I loved your piece on prayer.? I think imagining it happening is a real eye opener ofr me.? I am in a wheel chair so Imaginig myself jumping out of it and dancing is very special to my heart.? Thanks again for your input. ? Shalom,? Susan --- On Tue, 6/9/09, carlson_john at bellsouth.net wrote: From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Prayer... To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 2:29 AM I don't know Hanoch.? I guess I'm still in the camp of simply and plainly stating our case before him and then being quiet so that we can hear the answer. ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ? -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Boker tov L'Kulam, ? ?? I just saw this note, which I think helps connect our prayers with the appropriate visualization; making it more meaningful, and hopefully, even more effective then they could have been!? It's from the Mystical Paths website... ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Hanoch???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? '??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??"??? ????? ?"?,?" (91 days..)?????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????? "Let us go up an inherit the Land of Israel, for we are surely able"? Numbers 13:30 ? ? ??? Prayer by Reb Gutman Locks at Mystical Paths ? Prayer has to become genuine, alive. One very small but meaningful gesture is, when saying the words, ?You open Your hand and satisfy the desire of every living thing,?[i] to turn your palms upward as if you are trying to receive what it is He is giving. Why are you facing your palms upward? Because you truly believe that G-d?s hand is open and He is trying to give you something. And you are opening your hand heavenward because you want to receive His gifts. This shows that you really believe the words that you are saying. ? There are many religious Jews who can tell you where every prayer is written and many can even repeat them by heart, but there are very few who can tell you what they actually mean. Often people ask what can be done to improve their concentration during prayer. They complain that their minds keep wandering off the subject onto other totally unrelated things. Really, there is only one thing that you can do when this happens. As soon as you realize that you are off the subject, gently return. Again and again, quietly return to what you want to be concentrating on. This is like a weightlifter who continually picks up his weights, again and again. Each time you return to the subject you get a little stronger. ? ? There is another easy thing you can do that will help make your prayers more interesting, and actually more effective. Whatever you pray for, briefly imagine it coming into being. This means that when you are davening the Amidah (the standing, silent prayers), as you are finishing one of the 19 established prayers, such as, ?Blessed are You . . . Who rebuilds Jerusalem,? or ??Who heals the sick,? briefly picture what you are praying for to happen. In these two cases you could picture Jerusalem, including the Third Temple, made entirely out of brightly shining gold, floating down from Heaven settling over and filling the present-day Jerusalem. Or, when praying for the sick, picture the sick jumping out of their wheelchairs, throwing away their crutches, and dancing down the street. ?Think good and it will be good.? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/f68e7864/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Tue Jun 9 10:57:55 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 08:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] The American pressure has started... Message-ID: <968771.18115.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This may be HaShem's call for Israel to turn their face to me.? When he has removed all Israel's crutches hopefully they will recognize His call again.? These are dire times for Israel and a call to arms for prayers and any other means G-d has given us to support Israel. ? Shalom,? Susan --- On Tue, 6/9/09, carlson_john at bellsouth.net wrote: From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Dialogue] The American pressure has started... To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 2:11 AM Man, ? The more I think about this the more it aggravates me, even though I am not surprised. ? The fact that they are refusing to support the sale is expected, but the stated reason is entirely transparent, hypocritical and sophmoric. ? During the Cast Lead operation, the US position was consistently supportive of Israel's right to defend herself and when the first complaints arose regarding civilian casualties, we were at best, silent.? Since that time, several countries have tried to attack Israel's response through the UN, lawsuits and even criminal indictments against her Generals.? We remained silent. ? This is no surprise!? At least once a week we hear of? "collateral damage" inflicted by the US during operations in Iraq, Pakistan or Afghanistan in our self-righteous "War-on-Terror" or whatever we are calling it this week.? To accuse or question Israel would make us look like arrogant hypocrites, yet here we are. ? That means that this is clearly a political response to Bibi's resistance of Obama's demand that settlement expansion be stopped. ? The rest of the world is not?blind to these facts.??We are going to wind up caught in our own trap with no?credibility to lead the world anywhere. ? Obama's going to outsmart himself and he is going to take US with him. ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ? -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Hey John - ? ?? You know, if Israel is unable to purchase (or manufacture) the appropriate conventional weapons, then they may have NO CHOICE but to resort to their alleged unconventional arsenal..... ? ???No let's see how Hilary and her boss like THAT! ??????????????????? Hanoch On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 7:53 PM, wrote: At last!? The Obama administration declares itself openly. ? Maybe it's time Israel took a page out of Iran's and North Korea's book and stopped asking for "Permission" to do anything. ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ? -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- ?I wonder if the Soviets would be interested in selling us helicoptors?? Hmmm.... ???????????????????????????????????? Hanoch ? Administration blocks helicopters for Israel due to civilian casualties in Gaza - May 27, 2009 World Tribune.com WASHINGTON ? The Obama administration has blocked Israel`s request for advanced U.S.-origin attack helicopters. Government sources said the administration has held up Israel`s request for the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter. The sources said the request was undergoing an interagency review to determine whether additional Longbow helicopters would threaten Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip. "During the recent war, Israel made considerable use of the Longbow, and there were high civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip," a source close to the administration said. The sources said Israel has sought to purchase up to six new AH-64Ds in an effort to bolster conventional and counter-insurgency capabilities. They said Israel wants to replenish its fleet after the loss of two Apache helicopters in the 2006 war with Hizbullah. The Israel Air Force has also requested U.S. permission to integrate the Spike extended-range anti-tank missile into the AH-64D, Middle East Newsline reported. Spike ER, developed by the state-owned Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, has a range of eight kilometers and was installed on the Eurocopter Tiger and AgustaWestland A129 helicopters. The sources said the deployment of Spike would require integration into the Longbow`s millimeter-wave fire control and acquisition system. They said this would require permission from both Boeing and the U.S. government. Israel`s Defense Ministry and air force have discussed procurement of additional Longbows with the U.S. firm Boeing. But the sources said the Longbow as well as other defense requests have been shelved by the administration amid its review of the potential use of American weapons platforms by Israel. During his visit to the United States, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu also sought to win approval from the Defense Department for the installation of Israeli-origin electronic warfare systems in the Joint Strike Fighter. Netanyahu was said to have met Defense Secretary Robert Gates in a review of Israeli defense programs with the United States. Defense Minister Ehud Barak was scheduled to meet Gates in Washington in early June. 3965 W. 83rd. Street #292 Shawnee Mission, KS 66208 I Phone: 913.648.0022 I Fax: 913.648.7997 This site is designed for standards compliant browsers. If your browser is not standards compliant, download one here. Website copyright ? 2006. Unity Coalition for Israel. _______________________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/7b9f595e/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 14:17:54 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 15:17:54 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer... In-Reply-To: <060920090729.1352.4A2E0F5F0003F4CD0000054822216128369B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <855590370906080448l2f550170x27054642db2bdace@mail.gmail.com> <060920090729.1352.4A2E0F5F0003F4CD0000054822216128369B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <855590370906091217w7e352426pcfa49a7bb8f67fa0@mail.gmail.com> Hey John - Just wait until we get to go up to the Har HaBayit (Temple Mount) together...THEN you'll really feel what it means to be in the presence of HaShem.... *Hanoch * On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 3:29 AM, wrote: > I don't know Hanoch. I guess I'm still in the camp of simply and plainly > stating our case before him and then being quiet so that we can hear the > answer. > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : > -------------- > > Boker tov L'Kulam, > > I just saw this note, which I think helps connect our prayers with the > appropriate visualization; making it more meaningful, and hopefully, even > more effective then they could have been! It's from the Mystical Paths > website... > > > *Hanoch* '??? ???? > ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??" ????? ?"?,?" > (91 days..) "Let us go up an inherit the Land of Israel, for we are surely able" > Numbers 13:30 > > > * Prayer > *by Reb Gutman Locks at Mystical Paths > > Prayer has to become genuine, alive. One very small but meaningful gesture > is, when saying the words, ?You open Your hand and satisfy the desire of > every living thing,?[i] to turn your palms upward as if you are trying to > receive what it is He is giving. Why are you facing your palms upward? > Because you truly believe that G-d?s hand is open and He is trying to give > you something. And you are opening your hand heavenward because you want to > receive His gifts. This shows that you really believe the words that you are > saying. > > There are many religious Jews who can tell you where every prayer is > written and many can even repeat them by heart, but there are very few who > can tell you what they actually mean. Often people ask what can be done to > improve their concentration during prayer. They complain that their minds > keep wandering off the subject onto other totally unrelated things. > Really, there is only one thing that you can do when this happens. As soon > as you realize that you are off the subject, gently return. Again and again, > quietly return to what you want to be concentrating on. This is like a > weightlifter who continually picks up his weights, again and again. Each > time you return to the subject you get a little stronger. > > > There is another easy thing you can do that will help make your prayers > more interesting, and actually more effective. Whatever you pray for, > briefly imagine it coming into being. This means that when you are davening > the Amidah (the standing, silent prayers), as you are finishing one of the > 19 established prayers, such as, ?Blessed are You . . . Who rebuilds > Jerusalem,? or ??Who heals the sick,? briefly picture what you are praying > for to happen. In these two cases you could picture Jerusalem, including the > Third Temple, made entirely out of brightly shining gold, floating down from > Heaven settling over and filling the present-day Jerusalem. Or, when praying > for the sick, picture the sick jumping out of their wheelchairs, throwing > away their crutches, and dancing down the street. > *?Think good and it will be good.?* > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/17d5e6ed/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Tue Jun 9 14:27:27 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:27:27 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Duplicate emails In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <552F5A7D922A4283AC43D6CBE7290039@bettylaptop> Marvin, you make me laugh! Thanks for your thoughts and for the "funny!" Always good to hear from you, too.your posts are always from the heart! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of mhyde Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 6:23 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Duplicate emails No Betty. But it's always great hearing from you.. and hearing from you... And hearing form you. _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Betty K Givin Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:24 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Duplicate emails Friends, I do not know what is going on with my "duplicate" emails. I will have to call Verizon on Monday to see what's up because I keep getting this weird message that my message will not be sent. I close the message and then find that it sends it twice. Anybody else ever have this problem? Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/07303fdb/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 15:32:10 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:32:10 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo Message-ID: <855590370906091332x323c833fuba315270683a6519@mail.gmail.com> A MUST SEE: I just received this video from Rav Nachman Kahane; it features Rav Chaim Richman of the Temple Institute.... * Hanoch* ** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nImmsxXoLO0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/57ce6bb7/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Tue Jun 9 14:27:50 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:27:50 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Duplicate emails In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Marvin, you make me laugh! Thanks for your thoughts and for the "funny!" Always good to hear from you, too.your posts are always from the heart! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of mhyde Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 6:23 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Duplicate emails No Betty. But it's always great hearing from you.. and hearing from you... And hearing form you. _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Betty K Givin Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:24 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Duplicate emails Friends, I do not know what is going on with my "duplicate" emails. I will have to call Verizon on Monday to see what's up because I keep getting this weird message that my message will not be sent. I close the message and then find that it sends it twice. Anybody else ever have this problem? Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/083dfca8/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Tue Jun 9 14:41:25 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:41:25 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Dear All In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6241AD82B1FF42888591B08EB005F80E@bettylaptop> Beautiful thoughts by Chaya Abelsky, Catherine. Thank you for posting. Love & shalom, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Catherine Cashmore Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 7:00 AM To: roots Subject: Fw: [Dialogue] Dear All Inspired by the post on Prayer from Hanoch and the quote "Think good and it will be good" - I was Googling for some articles on Faith, and came across these words on Chabad.org I thought they may help you Susie (they lifted me - I sent the article to my Dad in hope that it will help him as well) by - Chaya Abelsky, Faith is not a relinquishing of responsibility. It is not an excuse for inaction that allows us to say, "The situation is out of my hands, G?d will look after it." On the contrary, it is only when we push ourselves to the limit of our own abilities that we begin to experience true faith. Faith is the confidence of knowing that having reached a point at which we can honestly say we have done all that we can, that everything else ? all that is not within our own control - will look after itself. But this confidence we experience is not faith itself, it is a result of faith. Faith is more than just a mind set. Faith is not merely something inside us, an emotion we experience like joy or satisfaction. Faith reaches out beyond us and transforms the world around us. When we approach the world with faith, it is a power that flows from a deep well within each of us. A power that flows outside ourselves and actually orchestrates the events of our world the way we need them to be. There is a Yiddish expression that goes "Tracht gut vet zein gut" - Think good and it will be good. It is explained in our deepest mystical teachings that our thoughts can change the world. The expression "Think good and it will be good" is not just a way of saying "Hope for the best" or "Stay positive". It is a profound teaching about the impact of our thoughts in creating and shaping our world. Faith in a positive outcome is the beginning of the solution. Given what appears to be a hopelessly impossible situation, faith is the power to wrestle with the force of opposition that blocks what we need to accomplish. Fighting against impossible odds with our intellect alone almost inevitably makes us closed and bitter. We shut ourselves away from others in our despair. But faith is the power to remain positive and open in the face of the most stifling adversity. The heart of one person reflects the heart of the otherIn Judaism, our Sages teach that just as water reflects the face, so too the heart of one person reflects the heart of the other. If we approach adversity with faith and confidence, we are already halfway towards achieving it. How many have experienced this? Many of us have experienced situations when we refused to be defeated or give up hope. And not only did people respond more openly, but the world itself seemed to open up. This is a profound secret of faith that is the key to unlocking the world's most valuable treasures. Judaism teaches that G?d established all forces in creation as a balance of opposites. In science, it is well known that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Opposition is not simply something negative. It is a sign that the outcome will make a difference. The greater the forces that fight against what you are seeking to accomplish, the greater the result must be in tipping the scale of deeds in the world to the side of good. When seen through the clarity of faith, impossible odds no longer overwhelm us. They instead spur us on by revealing that what we are doing matters. But why should it be like this? If G?d loves us and wants the best for us, why make it so difficult? The answer reveals the meaning behind one of life's great mysteries: why those who are good often suffer and those who are corrupt appear to prosper. We were not put in this world to do what comes easily. We were put here to achieve the impossible. And impossible is not some objective thing outside ourselves. Actually, the impossible is measured by us. So many things that were impossible when I was a child are now simple. Children overcome the impossible every day, learning to walk, talk, read, write, to become sensitive to the feelings of others. These are all such incredible achievements. While G?d could have created a world in which there was nothing that opposed goodness and kindness, we would have been missing out on G?d's greatest gift to us: the ability to find resources within ourselves greater than we previously realized were there. The things we treasure are precisely those things that we worked so hard forThings of little worth can be found easily. The surface of the world is covered in dirt and stones. But to find diamonds, one has to dig deep, to break through layer upon layer of the hardest rock, to get to its core. We are no different. The things that come easily to us are usually worth very little. The things we treasure are precisely those things that we worked so hard for. This is why G?d makes the lives of good people difficult. Because good people make a difference. And at the end of the day, it is their victory over the forces of darkness and despair that is the source of profound satisfaction. Having gone to the point of breaking but still retaining strength, we discover that we are not as fragile as we imagined. We are ready to face tomorrow with even greater challenges that will reveal even greater strength in us. Faith transforms us by transforming the world around us. Opposition becomes a motivating challenge and adversity is turned into opportunity to reveal greater personal resources. When we are successful, we become more than we were before. And when we reveal this new power, the world becomes a better place because of it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/1457a46f/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jun 9 16:59:24 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:59:24 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo] Message-ID: <4A2EDB3C.3080408@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/65378ed3/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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From: Hanoch Young Subject: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:32:10 -0400 Size: 4642 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/65378ed3/attachment.eml From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 17:14:17 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:14:17 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Dear All In-Reply-To: <6241AD82B1FF42888591B08EB005F80E@bettylaptop> References: <6241AD82B1FF42888591B08EB005F80E@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <855590370906091514u12040527u1959d17e09a5e2be@mail.gmail.com> Really great stuff - toda Catherine! And yes, it ALL seems to come down to faith - Emuna. * Hanoch * On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Betty K Givin wrote: > Beautiful thoughts by Chaya Abelsky, Catherine. Thank you for posting. > > > > Love & shalom, > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *Catherine Cashmore > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 09, 2009 7:00 AM > *To:* roots > *Subject:* Fw: [Dialogue] Dear All > > > > Inspired by the post on Prayer from Hanoch and the quote "Think good and it > will be good" - I was Googling for some articles on Faith, and came across > these words on Chabad.org I thought they may help you Susie (they lifted me > - I sent the article to my Dad in hope that it will help him as well) > > > > > > by - Chaya Abelsky, > > > > Faith is *not* a relinquishing of responsibility. It is not an excuse for > inaction that allows us to say, "The situation is out of my hands, G-dwill look after it." On the contrary, it is only when we push ourselves to > the limit of our own abilities that we begin to experience true faith. Faith > is the confidence of knowing that having reached a point at which we can > honestly say we have done all that we can, that everything else - all that > is not within our own control - will look after itself. > > But this confidence we experience is not faith itself, it is a *result* of > faith. Faith is more than just a mind set. Faith is not merely something > inside us, an emotion we experience like joy or satisfaction. Faith reaches > out beyond us and transforms the world around us. When we approach the world > with faith, it is a power that flows from a deep well within each of us. A > power that flows outside ourselves and actually orchestrates the events of > our world the way we need them to be. > > There is a Yiddish expression that goes *"Tracht gut vet zein gut"* - > Think good and it will be good. It is explained in our deepest mystical > teachings that our thoughts can change the world. The expression "Think good > and it will be good" is not just a way of saying "Hope for the best" or > "Stay positive". It is a profound teaching about the impact of our thoughts > in creating and shaping our world. Faith in a positive outcome is the > beginning of the solution. > > Given what appears to be a hopelessly impossible situation, faith is the > power to wrestle with the force of opposition that blocks what we need to > accomplish. Fighting against impossible odds with our intellect alone almost > inevitably makes us closed and bitter. We shut ourselves away from others in > our despair. But faith is the power to remain positive and open in the face > of the most stifling adversity. > > The heart of one person reflects the heart of the otherIn Judaism, our > Sages teach that just as water reflects the face, so too the heart of one > person reflects the heart of the other. If we approach adversity with faith > and confidence, we are already halfway towards achieving it. How many have > experienced this? Many of us have experienced situations when we refused to > be defeated or give up hope. And not only did people respond more openly, > but the world itself seemed to open up. > > This is a profound secret of faith that is the key to unlocking the world's > most valuable treasures. Judaism teaches that G-d established all forces in > creation as a balance of opposites. In science, it is well known that for > every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. > > Opposition is not simply something negative. It is a sign that the outcome > will make a difference. The greater the forces that fight against what you > are seeking to accomplish, the greater the result must be in tipping the > scale of deeds in the world to the side of good. When seen through the > clarity of faith, impossible odds no longer overwhelm us. They instead spur > us on by revealing that what we are doing matters. > > But why should it be like this? If G-d loves us and wants the best for us, > why make it so difficult? The answer reveals the meaning behind one of > life's great mysteries: why those who are good often suffer and those who > are corrupt appear to prosper. > > We were not put in this world to do what comes easily. We were put here to > achieve the impossible. And impossible is not some objective thing outside > ourselves. Actually, the impossible is measured by us. > > So many things that were impossible when I was a child are now simple. > Children overcome the impossible every day, learning to walk, talk, read, > write, to become sensitive to the feelings of others. These are all such > incredible achievements. > > While G-d could have created a world in which there was nothing that > opposed goodness and kindness, we would have been missing out on G-d's > greatest gift to us: the ability to find resources within ourselves greater > than we previously realized were there. > > The things we treasure are precisely those things that we worked so hard > forThings of little worth can be found easily. The surface of the world is > covered in dirt and stones. But to find diamonds, one has to dig deep, to > break through layer upon layer of the hardest rock, to get to its core. We > are no different. The things that come easily to us are usually worth very > little. The things we treasure are precisely those things that we worked so > hard for. > > This is why G-d makes the lives of good people difficult. Because good > people make a difference. And at the end of the day, it is their victory > over the forces of darkness and despair that is the source of profound > satisfaction. > > Having gone to the point of breaking but still retaining strength, we > discover that we are not as fragile as we imagined. We are ready to face > tomorrow with even greater challenges that will reveal even greater strength > in us. > > Faith transforms us by transforming the world around us. Opposition becomes > a motivating challenge and adversity is turned into opportunity to reveal > greater personal resources. When we are successful, we become more than we > were before. And when we reveal this new power, the world becomes a better > place because of it. > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/24fc570b/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 17:25:59 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:25:59 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] 'America's first Muslim president?' Message-ID: <855590370906091525l256a3da1k455a330fb8a236ae@mail.gmail.com> [image: The Washington Times] *Tuesday, June 9, 2009 * *GAFFNEY: America's first Muslim president?* Frank J. Gaffney Jr. *COMMENTARY:* During his White House years, William Jefferson Clinton -- someone Judge Sonia Sotomayor might call a "white male" -- was dubbed "America's first black president" by a black admirer. Applying the standard of identity politics and pandering to a special interest that earned Mr. Clinton that distinction, Barack Hussein Obama would have to be considered America's first Muslim president. This is not to say, necessarily, that Mr. Obama actually is a Muslim any more than Mr. Clinton actually is black. After his five months in office, and most especially after his just-concluded visit to Saudi Arabia and Egypt, however, a stunning conclusion seems increasingly plausible: The man now happy to have his Islamic-rooted middle name featured prominently has engaged in the most consequential bait-and-switch since Adolf Hitler duped Neville Chamberlain over Czechoslovakia at Munich. What little we know about Mr. Obama's youth certainly suggests that he not only had a Kenyan father who was Muslim, but spent his early, formative years as one in Indonesia. As the president likes to say, "much has been made" -- in this case by him and his campaign handlers -- of the fact that he became a Christian as an adult in Chicago, under the now-notorious Pastor Jeremiah A. Wright. With Mr. Obama's unbelievably ballyhooed address in Cairo Thursday to what he calls "the Muslim world" (hereafter known as "the Speech"), there is mounting evidence that the president not only identifies with Muslims, but actually may still be one himself. Consider the following indicators: ? Mr. Obama referred four times in his speech to "the Holy Koran." Non-Muslims -- even pandering ones -- generally don't use that Islamic formulation. ? Mr. Obama established his firsthand knowledge of Islam (albeit without mentioning his reported upbringing in the faith) with the statement, "I have known Islam on three continents before coming to the region where it was first revealed." Again, "revealed" is a depiction Muslims use to reflect their conviction that the Koran is the word of God, as dictated to Muhammad. ? Then the president made a statement no believing Christian -- certainly not one versed, as he professes to be, in the ways of Islam -- would ever make. In the context of what he euphemistically called the "situation between Israelis, Palestinians and Arabs," Mr. Obama said he looked forward to the day ". . . when Jerusalem is a secure and lasting home for Jews and Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them) joined in prayer." Now, the term "peace be upon them" is invoked by Muslims as a way of blessing deceased holy men. According to Islam, that is what all three were - dead prophets. Of course, for Christians, Jesus is the living and immortal Son of God. In the final analysis, it may be beside the point whether Mr. Obama actually is a Muslim. In the Speech and elsewhere, he has aligned himself with adherents to what authoritative Islam calls Shariah -- notably, the dangerous global movement known as the Muslim Brotherhood -- to a degree that makes Mr. Clinton's fabled affinity for blacks pale by comparison. For example, Mr. Obama has -- from literally his inaugural address onward -- inflated the numbers and, in that way and others, exaggerated the contemporary and historical importance of Muslim-Americans in the United States. In the Speech, he used the Brotherhood's estimates of "nearly 7 million Muslims" in this country, at least twice the estimates from other, more reputable sources. (Who knows? By the time Mr. Obama's friends in the radical Association of Community Organizers for Reform Now (ACORN) perpetrate their trademark books-cooking as deputy 2010 census takers, the official count may well claim considerably morethan 7 million Muslims are living here.) Even more troubling were the commitments the president made in Cairo to promote Islam in America. For instance, he declared: "I consider it part of my responsibility as president of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear." He vowed to ensure that women can cover their heads, including, presumably, when having their photographs taken for passports, driver's licenses or other identification purposes. He also pledged to enable Muslims to engage in zakat, their faith's requirement for tithing, even though four of the eight types of charity called for by Shariah can be associated with terrorism. Not surprisingly, a number of Islamic "charities" in this country have been convicted of providing material support for terrorism. Particularly worrying is the realignment Mr. Obama has announced in U.S. policy toward Israel. While he pays lip service to the "unbreakable" bond between America and the Jewish state, the president has unmistakably signaled that he intends to compel the Israelis to make territorial and other strategic concessions to Palestinians to achieve the hallowed two-state solution. In doing so, he ignores the inconvenient fact that both the Brotherhood's Hamas and Abu Mazen's Fatah remain determined to achieve a one-state solution, whereby the Jews will be driven "into the sea." Whether Mr. Obama actually is a Muslim or simply plays one in the presidency may, in the end, be irrelevant. What is alarming is that in aligning himself and his policies with those of Shariah-adherents such as the Muslim Brotherhood, the president will greatly intensify the already enormous pressure on peaceful, tolerant American Muslims to submit to such forces - and heighten expectations, here and abroad, that the rest of us will do so as well. *Frank J. Gaffney Jr. is president of the Center for Security Policy.* http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/09/americas-first-muslim-president/print/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/a0887184/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 17:36:15 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:36:15 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.]] In-Reply-To: <4A2E4A54.2020401@westnet.com.au> References: <4A2E4A54.2020401@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <855590370906091536w5062d721kd17959c7a60aeb17@mail.gmail.com> Hey Joe, I'm not mad at John either, :-) but I also want to be counted in for the special Tefilot we intend to say on behalf of ALL the children of ALL of Israel. Kim, that still fits the original idea, right?!?! Notice when you go back and read Yehezkel (Ezekiel) Chapter 37 (which I now can associate chapter/verse after my first of two PR's). For the "two sticks" to be joined, it's not just Judah and Israel/Ephraim/Joseph, but also, "..*and those associated with them." * ** * *That's a LOT of children to pray for....our own little families, and our really BIG ONE. May HaShem realize that we did the best we possibly could, under the circumstances we all were in, at that time, for our own children. May HE look out for ALL of HIS children, now, and forever... *Hanoch* * * On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:41 AM, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: > *Shalom Eliron, > > did I miss something? > Why would I be mad at you , achi ? > I have no grounds whatsoever. In fact you and Carin are very dear to me. > > I did request leave from the dialogue list a couple of weeks ago due to > work commitments after we had severe storms here in Australia. The damage > was incredible. Being an Architect, I hope you understand the enormity of my > duties towards rectification and remedial work, not only to property but > shattered human lives. > Things are only just starting to go back to normal. > Last Erev Shabbat, my great companion, Vanya the wonder dog, finally > succumbed to old age and passed away at the age of 14. Last Shabbat was the > first in 13 years without my old mate. Heidi and I are still devastated at > the loss but gradually coming to terms with it. > > With regards to Hannah's prayer request this coming Shabbat - USA time , we > will get things started here in the land down under a day in advance and you > can put the icing on the cake as a grand finale. > It is such a worthy cause to pray for the children and babes, I could not > think of a better request to our beloved Abba in Shamayim. He sees us all as > His children. > The spirit of Eliyahu is indeed in full swing as he is restoring us to the > faith of the Avot, but none greater than our Creator and Heavenly Father. > Baruch HaShem. > > Let us get this prayer chain happening. > In full support. > > A special hug and kiss to Carin. > > Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > * > > Thank you Joe. > > Personally, I'm hoping that this will be a sweet savor for His nostrils. > > (I was beginning to think you were mad at me you didn't answer some of my > last responses to you, it was awhile ago). > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : > -------------- > > *Shalom Eliron and Hannah, > > count me in, all the way. > > I have no children, however I will pray for all my G-d children and all the > children of all the wonderful people on the dialogue list. > A special prayer should be made for the babes of Torah, that they should be > nurtured by the milk of Torah, comforted and encouraged by the veterans. > > I will be with y'all next Erev Shabbat in spirit and in the truth of Torah. > > Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > > * > > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/1b40bbcb/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 17:43:41 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:43:41 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] The American pressure has started... In-Reply-To: <968771.18115.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <968771.18115.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <855590370906091543o2a1c0333u53db1609eaaa2c71@mail.gmail.com> Hey Susan - I think you're totally on target here...when we don't have allies, chariots, horses or spears (or their modern equivalents) to depend upon - where SHOULD we turn? HaShem is waiting for us to realize it.... * Hanoch * On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 11:57 AM, susan strickland wrote: > This may be HaShem's call for Israel to turn their face to me. When he > has removed all Israel's crutches hopefully they will recognize His call > again. These are dire times for Israel and a call to arms for prayers and > any other means G-d has given us to support Israel. > > Shalom, Susan > > --- On *Tue, 6/9/09, carlson_john at bellsouth.net < > carlson_john at bellsouth.net>* wrote: > > > From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] The American pressure has started... > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 2:11 AM > > > Man, > > The more I think about this the more it aggravates me, even though I am not > surprised. > > The fact that they are refusing to support the sale is expected, but the > stated reason is entirely transparent, hypocritical and sophmoric. > > During the Cast Lead operation, the US position was consistently supportive > of Israel's right to defend herself and when the first complaints arose > regarding civilian casualties, we were at best, silent. Since that time, > several countries have tried to attack Israel's response through the UN, > lawsuits and even criminal indictments against her Generals. We remained > silent. > > This is no surprise! At least once a week we hear of "collateral damage" > inflicted by the US during operations in Iraq, Pakistan or Afghanistan in > our self-righteous "War-on-Terror" or whatever we are calling it this week. > To accuse or question Israel would make us look like arrogant hypocrites, > yet here we are. > > That means that this is clearly a political response to Bibi's resistance > of Obama's demand that settlement expansion be stopped. > > The rest of the world is not blind to these facts. We are going to wind up > caught in our own trap with no credibility to lead the world anywhere. > > Obama's going to outsmart himself and he is going to take US with him. > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : > -------------- > > Hey John - > > You know, if Israel is unable to purchase (or manufacture) the > appropriate *conventional *weapons, then they may have NO CHOICE but to > resort to their *alleged *unconventional arsenal..... > > No let's see how Hilary and her boss like THAT! > *Hanoch > > * > On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 7:53 PM, > > wrote: > >> At last! The Obama administration declares itself openly. >> >> Maybe it's time Israel took a page out of Iran's and North Korea's book >> and stopped asking for "Permission" to do anything. >> >> -- >> Eliron/John. >> >> "Be excellent to each other!" >> Bill and Ted >> >> >> -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young >: >> -------------- >> >> I wonder if the Soviets would be interested in selling us helicoptors? >> Hmmm.... >> * Hanoch >> * >> ** ** >> *Administration blocks helicopters for Israel due to civilian casualties >> in Gaza* >> >> - May 27, 2009 >> World Tribune.com >> >> WASHINGTON ? The Obama administration has blocked Israel`s request for >> advanced U.S.-origin attack helicopters. >> >> Government sources said the administration has held up Israel`s request >> for the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter. The sources said the >> request was undergoing an interagency review to determine whether additional >> Longbow helicopters would threaten Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip. >> >> "During the recent war, Israel made considerable use of the Longbow, and >> there were high civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip," a source close to >> the administration said. >> >> The sources said Israel has sought to purchase up to six new AH-64Ds in an >> effort to bolster conventional and counter-insurgency capabilities. They >> said Israel wants to replenish its fleet after the loss of two Apache >> helicopters in the 2006 war with Hizbullah. >> >> The Israel Air Force has also requested U.S. permission to integrate the >> Spike extended-range anti-tank missile into the AH-64D, Middle East Newsline >> reported. Spike ER, developed by the state-owned Rafael Advanced Defense >> Systems, has a range of eight kilometers and was installed on the Eurocopter >> Tiger and AgustaWestland A129 helicopters. >> >> The sources said the deployment of Spike would require integration into >> the Longbow`s millimeter-wave fire control and acquisition system. They said >> this would require permission from both Boeing and the U.S. government. >> >> Israel`s Defense Ministry and air force have discussed procurement of >> additional Longbows with the U.S. firm Boeing. But the sources said the >> Longbow as well as other defense requests have been shelved by the >> administration amid its review of the potential use of American weapons >> platforms by Israel. >> >> During his visit to the United States, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu >> also sought to win approval from the Defense Department for the installation >> of Israeli-origin electronic warfare systems in the Joint Strike Fighter. >> >> Netanyahu was said to have met Defense Secretary Robert Gates in a review >> of Israeli defense programs with the United States. Defense Minister Ehud >> Barak was scheduled to meet Gates in Washington in early June. >> >> >> >> 3965 W. 83rd. Street #292 Shawnee Mission, KS 66208 I Phone: 913.648.0022 >> I Fax: 913.648.7997 >> This site is designed for standards compliant browsers. If your browser is >> not standards compliant, download one here >> . >> Website copyright ? 2006. Unity Coalition for Israel. >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/fb7121ab/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Tue Jun 9 18:07:44 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (Margie Creech) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo Message-ID: <969173.28668.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com> You go Rabbi Richman!? He speaks volumes.? Who the heck does Obamanation think he is????I am feeling more and more like?I don't belong?in the US.? I want to go home! ? Margie --- On Tue, 6/9/09, Hanoch Young wrote: From: Hanoch Young Subject: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 3:32 PM A MUST SEE:? I just received this video from Rav Nachman Kahane; it features Rav Chaim Richman of the Temple Institute.... ???????????????????????????????? Hanoch ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nImmsxXoLO0 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/e3904361/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 18:14:38 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:14:38 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo In-Reply-To: <969173.28668.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <969173.28668.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <855590370906091614n58376c20r8a68d80e3717809f@mail.gmail.com> 89 days Margie, and with HaShem's help and guidance, I start paving the way! We'll get you home, y'all just need to hang in there a little, okay? :-) Did you notice that the 'y'all' was pronounced with an Israeli accent? ;-) *Hanoch * On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Margie Creech wrote: > You go Rabbi Richman! He speaks volumes. Who the heck does Obamanationthink he is? I am feeling more and more like I don't belong in the US. I > want to go home! > > Margie > > --- On *Tue, 6/9/09, Hanoch Young * wrote: > > > From: Hanoch Young > Subject: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 3:32 PM > > A MUST SEE: I just received this video from Rav Nachman Kahane; it > features Rav Chaim Richman of the Temple Institute.... > * Hanoch* > ** > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nImmsxXoLO0 > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/c3150005/attachment.html From doug at dougallen.com Tue Jun 9 18:38:46 2009 From: doug at dougallen.com (Douglas Allen) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:38:46 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] 'America's first Muslim president?' What else? In-Reply-To: <20090609224351385@smtp638.redcondor.net> References: <20090609224351385@smtp638.redcondor.net> Message-ID: <702BC380-D967-4E0F-B56E-536608A5D2DE@dougallen.com> Shalom Hanoch, I read with great interest your post on our first Muslim President. I kept reading it to find out what else. Your point of view seemed clear but yet not clearly stated, at least to this newbie. Many of the verbal 'panderings' you point out, could be, read with another slant, simply a case of When in Rome, do as the Romans. Mr. Obama referred to the Holy Koran. Neither you nor I would refer to that tome using those words, but they (Muslims) do. The same can be said for, "...peace be upon them..." and visiting the land where the Koran was, "...revealed..." Perhaps our President is simply promoting peace with an audience who has shown great distaste (hatred) for Western values and our way of living. I am sure you recall the great discussion of the road to Hell we entered when we elected a Roman Catholic president in the days of Camelot. Yes, I too am concerned that we are being led down the path by a man who seemingly, has been less than fully open about his personal background. Yes, that gives me grave concern that there may be a not so hidden agenda that may cause more problems than it ever could solve. Having said that, I think we all can be a part of the peace process by offering our support and holding back the 'sniping' just a bit. having said all that, thanks for pointing out his somewhat shady way of LEADING ??? the Free World. > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:25:59 -0400 > From: Hanoch Young > Subject: [Dialogue] 'America's first Muslim president?' > > Frank J. Gaffney Jr. > > *COMMENTARY:* > > During his White House years, William Jefferson Clinton -- someone > Judge > Sonia Sotomayor might call a "white male" -- was dubbed "America's > first > black president" by a black admirer. Applying the standard of identity > politics and pandering to a special interest that earned Mr. Clinton > that > distinction, Barack Hussein Obama would have to be considered > America's > first Muslim president. > > This is not to say, necessarily, that Mr. Obama actually is a Muslim > any > more than Mr. Clinton actually is black. After his five months in > office, > and most especially after his just-concluded visit to Saudi Arabia and > Egypt, however, a stunning conclusion seems increasingly plausible: > The man > now happy to have his Islamic-rooted middle name featured > prominently has > engaged in the most consequential bait-and-switch since Adolf Hitler > duped > Neville Chamberlain over Czechoslovakia at Munich. > > What little we know about Mr. Obama's youth certainly suggests that > he not > only had a Kenyan father who was Muslim, but spent his early, > formative > years as one in Indonesia. As the president likes to say, "much has > been > made" -- in this case by him and his campaign handlers -- of the > fact that > he became a Christian as an adult in Chicago, under the now- > notorious Pastor > Jeremiah A. Wright. > > With Mr. Obama's unbelievably ballyhooed address in Cairo Thursday > to what > he calls "the Muslim world" (hereafter known as "the Speech"), there > is > mounting evidence that the president not only identifies with > Muslims, but > actually may still be one himself. Consider the following indicators: > > ? Mr. Obama referred four times in his speech to "the Holy Koran." > Non-Muslims -- even pandering ones -- generally don't use that Islamic > formulation. > > ? Mr. Obama established his firsthand knowledge of Islam (albeit > without > mentioning his reported upbringing in the faith) with the statement, > "I have > known Islam on three continents before coming to the region where it > was > first revealed." Again, "revealed" is a depiction Muslims use to > reflect > their conviction that the Koran is the word of God, as dictated to > Muhammad. > > > ? Then the president made a statement no believing Christian -- > certainly > not one versed, as he professes to be, in the ways of Islam -- would > ever > make. In the context of what he euphemistically called the "situation > between Israelis, Palestinians and Arabs," Mr. Obama said he looked > forward > to the day ". . . when Jerusalem is a secure and lasting home for > Jews and > Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of > Abraham to > mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra, when Moses, > Jesus and > Muhammad (peace be upon them) joined in prayer." > > Now, the term "peace be upon them" is invoked by Muslims as a way of > blessing deceased holy men. According to Islam, that is what all > three were > - dead prophets. Of course, for Christians, Jesus is the living and > immortal > Son of God. > > In the final analysis, it may be beside the point whether Mr. Obama > actually > is a Muslim. In the Speech and elsewhere, he has aligned himself with > adherents to what authoritative Islam calls Shariah -- notably, the > dangerous global movement known as the Muslim Brotherhood -- to a > degree > that makes Mr. Clinton's fabled affinity for blacks pale by > comparison. > > For example, Mr. Obama has -- from literally his inaugural address > onward -- > inflated the numbers and, in that way and others, exaggerated the > contemporary and historical importance of Muslim-Americans in the > United > States. In the Speech, he used the Brotherhood's estimates of > "nearly 7 > million Muslims" in this country, at least twice the estimates from > other, > more reputable sources. (Who knows? By the time Mr. Obama's friends > in the > radical Association of Community Organizers for Reform Now (ACORN) > perpetrate their trademark books-cooking as deputy 2010 census > takers, the > official count may well claim considerably morethan 7 million > Muslims are > living here.) > > Even more troubling were the commitments the president made in Cairo > to > promote Islam in America. For instance, he declared: "I consider it > part of > my responsibility as president of the United States to fight against > negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear." He vowed to > ensure that > women can cover their heads, including, presumably, when having their > photographs taken for passports, driver's licenses or other > identification > purposes. He also pledged to enable Muslims to engage in zakat, their > faith's requirement for tithing, even though four of the eight types > of > charity called for by Shariah can be associated with terrorism. Not > surprisingly, a number of Islamic "charities" in this country have > been > convicted of providing material support for terrorism. > > Particularly worrying is the realignment Mr. Obama has announced in > U.S. > policy toward Israel. While he pays lip service to the "unbreakable" > bond > between America and the Jewish state, the president has unmistakably > signaled that he intends to compel the Israelis to make territorial > and > other strategic concessions to Palestinians to achieve the hallowed > two-state solution. In doing so, he ignores the inconvenient fact > that both > the Brotherhood's Hamas and Abu Mazen's Fatah remain determined to > achieve a > one-state solution, whereby the Jews will be driven "into the sea." > > Whether Mr. Obama actually is a Muslim or simply plays one in the > presidency > may, in the end, be irrelevant. What is alarming is that in aligning > himself > and his policies with those of Shariah-adherents such as the Muslim > Brotherhood, the president will greatly intensify the already enormous > pressure on peaceful, tolerant American Muslims to submit to such > forces - > and heighten expectations, here and abroad, that the rest of us will > do so > as well. > > *Frank J. Gaffney Jr. is president of the Center for Security Policy.* > > http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/09/americas-first-muslim-president/print/ I have been young, and now am old, but I have not seen the good man without help, or his children looking for bread. Psalm 37: 25 Douglas Allen doug at dougallen.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/387c35ec/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 18:53:56 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:53:56 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] 'America's first Muslim president?' What else? In-Reply-To: <702BC380-D967-4E0F-B56E-536608A5D2DE@dougallen.com> References: <20090609224351385@smtp638.redcondor.net> <702BC380-D967-4E0F-B56E-536608A5D2DE@dougallen.com> Message-ID: <855590370906091653s2376438eh794f5bb004c02e0a@mail.gmail.com> Hey Doug - Sorry, but I can't take the credit for that article - it was written by Frank Gaffney, Jr. Although I agree with many, if not all the points he made. In terms of your suggestion that we can all be part of the "peace process," well, you've got me stumped there. Even if I wanted to support the American president (and I am leaving this country for good in 89 days - so I'm not the right guy to ask), what possible "peace process" can you be referring to? The Land of Israel was given to the Hebrew people by G-d, as an everlasting posession, with no sublease agreements that I'm aware of. OURS, forever...no ambiguity there. Obama's goal is simple, and he's been very clear about it - Israel must destroy every Jewish city, town and village in Judea and Samaria, and surrender East Jerusalem and it's surrounding neighborhoods to the Fatah/Hamas Islamo-Nazis. THAT is his "peace process" - and maybe, just maybe, the Arabs will let us live on our knees another day.... Well, this is one Jew who isn't going down without a fight....and I'm not the only one, either..... *Hanoch * On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Douglas Allen wrote: > Shalom Hanoch, > > I read with great interest your post on our first Muslim President. I kept > reading it to find out what else. Your point of view seemed clear but yet > not clearly stated, at least to this newbie. Many of the verbal > 'panderings' you point out, could be, read with another slant, simply a case > of When in Rome, do as the Romans. Mr. Obama referred to the Holy Koran. > Neither you nor I would refer to that tome using those words, but they > (Muslims) do. The same can be said for, "...peace be upon them..." and > visiting the land where the Koran was, "...revealed..." Perhaps our > President is simply promoting peace with an audience who has shown great > distaste (hatred) for Western values and our way of living. I am sure you > recall the great discussion of the road to Hell we entered when we elected a > Roman Catholic president in the days of Camelot. > > Yes, I too am concerned that we are being led down the path by a man who > seemingly, has been less than fully open about his personal background. > Yes, that gives me grave concern that there may be a not so hidden agenda > that may cause more problems than it ever could solve. Having said that, I > think we all can be a part of the peace process by offering our support and > holding back the 'sniping' just a bit. > > having said all that, thanks for pointing out his somewhat shady way of > LEADING ??? the Free World. > > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:25:59 -0400 > From: Hanoch Young > Subject: [Dialogue] 'America's first Muslim president?' > > Frank J. Gaffney Jr. > > *COMMENTARY:* > > During his White House years, William Jefferson Clinton -- someone Judge > Sonia Sotomayor might call a "white male" -- was dubbed "America's first > black president" by a black admirer. Applying the standard of identity > politics and pandering to a special interest that earned Mr. Clinton that > distinction, Barack Hussein Obama would have to be considered America's > first Muslim president. > > This is not to say, necessarily, that Mr. Obama actually is a Muslim any > more than Mr. Clinton actually is black. After his five months in office, > and most especially after his just-concluded visit to Saudi Arabia and > Egypt, however, a stunning conclusion seems increasingly plausible: The man > now happy to have his Islamic-rooted middle name featured prominently has > engaged in the most consequential bait-and-switch since Adolf Hitler duped > Neville Chamberlain over Czechoslovakia at Munich. > > What little we know about Mr. Obama's youth certainly suggests that he not > only had a Kenyan father who was Muslim, but spent his early, formative > years as one in Indonesia. As the president likes to say, "much has been > made" -- in this case by him and his campaign handlers -- of the fact that > he became a Christian as an adult in Chicago, under the now-notorious > Pastor > Jeremiah A. Wright. > > With Mr. Obama's unbelievably ballyhooed address in Cairo Thursday to what > he calls "the Muslim world" (hereafter known as "the Speech"), there is > mounting evidence that the president not only identifies with Muslims, but > actually may still be one himself. Consider the following indicators: > > ? Mr. Obama referred four times in his speech to "the Holy Koran." > Non-Muslims -- even pandering ones -- generally don't use that Islamic > formulation. > > ? Mr. Obama established his firsthand knowledge of Islam (albeit without > mentioning his reported upbringing in the faith) with the statement, "I > have > known Islam on three continents before coming to the region where it was > first revealed." Again, "revealed" is a depiction Muslims use to reflect > their conviction that the Koran is the word of God, as dictated to > Muhammad. > > > ? Then the president made a statement no believing Christian -- certainly > not one versed, as he professes to be, in the ways of Islam -- would ever > make. In the context of what he euphemistically called the "situation > between Israelis, Palestinians and Arabs," Mr. Obama said he looked forward > to the day ". . . when Jerusalem is a secure and lasting home for Jews and > Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of Abraham to > mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus and > Muhammad (peace be upon them) joined in prayer." > > Now, the term "peace be upon them" is invoked by Muslims as a way of > blessing deceased holy men. According to Islam, that is what all three were > - dead prophets. Of course, for Christians, Jesus is the living and > immortal > Son of God. > > In the final analysis, it may be beside the point whether Mr. Obama > actually > is a Muslim. In the Speech and elsewhere, he has aligned himself with > adherents to what authoritative Islam calls Shariah -- notably, the > dangerous global movement known as the Muslim Brotherhood -- to a degree > that makes Mr. Clinton's fabled affinity for blacks pale by comparison. > > For example, Mr. Obama has -- from literally his inaugural address onward > -- > inflated the numbers and, in that way and others, exaggerated the > contemporary and historical importance of Muslim-Americans in the United > States. In the Speech, he used the Brotherhood's estimates of "nearly 7 > million Muslims" in this country, at least twice the estimates from other, > more reputable sources. (Who knows? By the time Mr. Obama's friends in the > radical Association of Community Organizers for Reform Now (ACORN) > perpetrate their trademark books-cooking as deputy 2010 census takers, the > official count may well claim considerably morethan 7 million Muslims are > living here.) > > Even more troubling were the commitments the president made in Cairo to > promote Islam in America. For instance, he declared: "I consider it part of > my responsibility as president of the United States to fight against > negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear." He vowed to ensure > that > women can cover their heads, including, presumably, when having their > photographs taken for passports, driver's licenses or other identification > purposes. He also pledged to enable Muslims to engage in zakat, their > faith's requirement for tithing, even though four of the eight types of > charity called for by Shariah can be associated with terrorism. Not > surprisingly, a number of Islamic "charities" in this country have been > convicted of providing material support for terrorism. > > Particularly worrying is the realignment Mr. Obama has announced in U.S. > policy toward Israel. While he pays lip service to the "unbreakable" bond > between America and the Jewish state, the president has unmistakably > signaled that he intends to compel the Israelis to make territorial and > other strategic concessions to Palestinians to achieve the hallowed > two-state solution. In doing so, he ignores the inconvenient fact that both > the Brotherhood's Hamas and Abu Mazen's Fatah remain determined to achieve > a > one-state solution, whereby the Jews will be driven "into the sea." > > Whether Mr. Obama actually is a Muslim or simply plays one in the > presidency > may, in the end, be irrelevant. What is alarming is that in aligning > himself > and his policies with those of Shariah-adherents such as the Muslim > Brotherhood, the president will greatly intensify the already enormous > pressure on peaceful, tolerant American Muslims to submit to such forces - > and heighten expectations, here and abroad, that the rest of us will do so > as well. > > *Frank J. Gaffney Jr. is president of the Center for Security Policy.* > > > http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/09/americas-first-muslim-president/print/ > > > > I have been young, and now am old, but I have not seen the good man > without help, or his children looking for bread. Psalm 37: 25 > Douglas Allen > doug at dougallen.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/9094d8f2/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jun 9 20:19:39 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:19:39 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Israeli Robot Snake Message-ID: Israeli military develops robot snake for battlefield, children's nightmares 06-09-2009 While this is by no means the first time we've seen a robotic snake prototype, it isn't every day that we find one so close to deployment. This self-propelling, two feet long robot can crawl along the ground, climb through debris, and even stand erect to give the operator a better view. The Israeli Defense Force is will use this thing for routine surveillance and reconnaissance, broadcasting video and sound to a monitor and control station. And if this is not enough? In that case, the prototype can be wired with explosives -- making it, according to the Jerusalem Post, a "suicide snake." Fun! And rather upsetting. No proposed price or timetable yet, but you can see the thing in action for yourself after the break. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/69190a96/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jun 9 20:23:03 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:23:03 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.]] In-Reply-To: <855590370906091536w5062d721kd17959c7a60aeb17@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A2E4A54.2020401@westnet.com.au> <855590370906091536w5062d721kd17959c7a60aeb17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well said, Hanoch. I'll be praying too. Avigail Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:36:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.]] From: youngbarzel at gmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Hey Joe, I'm not mad at John either, :-) but I also want to be counted in for the special Tefilot we intend to say on behalf of ALL the children of ALL of Israel. Kim, that still fits the original idea, right?!?! Notice when you go back and read Yehezkel (Ezekiel) Chapter 37 (which I now can associate chapter/verse after my first of two PR's). For the "two sticks" to be joined, it's not just Judah and Israel/Ephraim/Joseph, but also, "..and those associated with them." That's a LOT of children to pray for....our own little families, and our really BIG ONE. May HaShem realize that we did the best we possibly could, under the circumstances we all were in, at that time, for our own children. May HE look out for ALL of HIS children, now, and forever... Hanoch On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:41 AM, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: Shalom Eliron, did I miss something? Why would I be mad at you , achi ? I have no grounds whatsoever. In fact you and Carin are very dear to me. I did request leave from the dialogue list a couple of weeks ago due to work commitments after we had severe storms here in Australia. The damage was incredible. Being an Architect, I hope you understand the enormity of my duties towards rectification and remedial work, not only to property but shattered human lives. Things are only just starting to go back to normal. Last Erev Shabbat, my great companion, Vanya the wonder dog, finally succumbed to old age and passed away at the age of 14. Last Shabbat was the first in 13 years without my old mate. Heidi and I are still devastated at the loss but gradually coming to terms with it. With regards to Hannah's prayer request this coming Shabbat - USA time , we will get things started here in the land down under a day in advance and you can put the icing on the cake as a grand finale. It is such a worthy cause to pray for the children and babes, I could not think of a better request to our beloved Abba in Shamayim. He sees us all as His children. The spirit of Eliyahu is indeed in full swing as he is restoring us to the faith of the Avot, but none greater than our Creator and Heavenly Father. Baruch HaShem. Let us get this prayer chain happening. In full support. A special hug and kiss to Carin. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. Thank you Joe. Personally, I'm hoping that this will be a sweet savor for His nostrils. (I was beginning to think you were mad at me you didn't answer some of my last responses to you, it was awhile ago). -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shalom Eliron and Hannah, count me in, all the way. I have no children, however I will pray for all my G-d children and all the children of all the wonderful people on the dialogue list. A special prayer should be made for the babes of Torah, that they should be nurtured by the milk of Torah, comforted and encouraged by the veterans. I will be with y'all next Erev Shabbat in spirit and in the truth of Torah. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/c1ba9b93/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jun 9 20:38:07 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:38:07 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo In-Reply-To: <969173.28668.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <969173.28668.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The Star of David at night, Is big and bright, (clap-clap, clap-clap!) Deep in the heart of YISRAEL!!!!!!!!! We can plant bulebonnets in the Negev, Margie! Love, Avigail Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:07:44 -0700 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org You go Rabbi Richman! He speaks volumes. Who the heck does Obamanation think he is? I am feeling more and more like I don't belong in the US. I want to go home! Margie --- On Tue, 6/9/09, Hanoch Young wrote: From: Hanoch Young Subject: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 3:32 PM A MUST SEE: I just received this video from Rav Nachman Kahane; it features Rav Chaim Richman of the Temple Institute.... Hanoch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nImmsxXoLO0 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/4053e1e3/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 21:13:39 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:13:39 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] 'Snakes in glass houses' Message-ID: <855590370906091913p4159cdar128bc175095c13b9@mail.gmail.com> >From Rav Lazer Brody..... *Hanoch* ** Snakes in Glass Houses Many of our good friends and longtime Beams readers have written lately and asked why I haven't yet made a frontal assault on Mister Vin DC. The reason is simple - we have moved a giant step closer to the Geula. Politics and politicking no longer determine anything. The closer we get to Moshiach, the more Hashem is revealing His individual tailor-made precision Divine Providence over the entire universe, and within each individual. Hashem put Obama in power. True, the future of Israel seems bleak. Obama, who in Cherokee dialect would be called *inadu* because of his forked tongue, promised to end American dictates around the world. Yet, in Israel, he and his emissaries are doing their utmost to ram unkosher policies down Jewish throats. Yet, a snake doesn't bite unless Hashem tells it too. Obama and his threat against hundreds of thousand of Jewish homes in Judea, Samaria, and the suburbs of Jerusalem are merely a wake-up call designed for us to strengthen ourselves in teshuva and emuna. Political activism didn't save Gush Katif and it won't save Beitar or Maale Edumim - only teshuva and personal prayer will. All of the severe prophecies about bloodshed and redemption are true, but by way of personal prayer - especially thanking Hashem profusely for all of our trials and tribulations as well as our blessings, the sever prophecies and stern judgments will be mitigated and the Geula will come peacefully and sweetly. Meanwhile, one who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones. In the name of my dear Cherokee friends and brothers, the USA should return to its 1831 borders, when the Indian Act disenfranchised the Cherokee nation from their tribal lands in North Carolina. The US Government must respect and acknowledge the legitimate rights of the Cherokee Nation, and all the white-man settlements including Raleigh and Durham must be dismantled immediately. Once a fair peace agreement is reached with the Cherokee, then the USA must negotiate with the Sioux, the Cheyenne, the Navajo, the Apaches, the Nez Perces... the list is long. When the US Government finishes repairing its own injustice, crimes, and acts of genocide against Native Americans, then maybe they'll be able to stick their noses in our business. Now, we can finally realize why zoos keep snakes in glass houses. Wednesday, 10 June 2009 at 12:01 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/d0e2fbe5/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Tue Jun 9 21:29:54 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:29:54 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo] In-Reply-To: <4A2EDB3C.3080408@westnet.com.au> References: <4A2EDB3C.3080408@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <164601c9e973$58a2e0b0$09e8a210$@com> Hmmmm..I'm not sure about all of this. Obama was not my pick for President and I don't like all this government spending and control, but I felt different about his speech. Somewhere in it he said he wanted to define "what Islam was and what Islam is not". I kinda took this to mean that the terrorists and their supporters took verses of the Quran out of context to support their violent agendas. He said, "As the Holy Quran tells us, 'Be conscious of God and speak always the truth.' That is what I will try to do - to speak the truth as best I can, humbled by the task before us, and firm in my belief that the interests we share as human beings are far more powerful than the forces that drive us apart." To say he quoted this verse to send a message to terrorists to urge "Muslims to follow Muhammad in waging jihad against nonbelievers" is an assumption and may not be an honest assumption. I still disagree very strongly with Obama and his administration, but we still have to try to separate Truth from assumption. You see, this is how "conspiracy theory" works as a 'fence" for the Lie - when the Truth finally does arise, the majority will think it is just more conspiracy. I don't think that in any way Jerusalem should be divided, or, on the other hand that the Palestinians are all evil and should be exterminated. They are our brothers - they just have been appointed a DIFFERENT LAND. Joshua 24:4 And I gave unto Isaac Jacob and Esau: and I gave unto Esau Mount Seir, to possess it; but Jacob and his children went down into Egypt. Isaac and Ishmael TOGETHER buried their father Abraham: Gen. 25 [8] Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people. [9] And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre; Esau and Jacob bury Isaac: Gen 35:29 And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him. Peace, Shalom, Salaam! Patty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of JOE INDOMENICO Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 5:59 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo] Shalom Hanoch, todah rabbah for this rousing and heart felt cry for truth from Rabbi Chaim Richman. May HaShem vindicate His Holy Word as quoted by the Rabbi. Beware all those who wish to devour the land !!!! On the other hand , what did Obama really say ? His signature OBAMA WATCH CENTRAL Obama speech quoted jihad verse from Quran Address to Muslims used Islamic text urging war against nonbelievers _____ Posted: June 07, 2009 11:22 pm Eastern By Aaron Klein C 2009 WorldNetDaily JERUSALEM - In his major address to the Muslim world last week, President Obama quoted a verse from the Quran that is interpreted as urging Muslims to follow Muhammad in waging jihad against nonbelievers. The context of the verse - first noticed by Robert Spencer of the Jihad Watch website -Please read- was confirmed by Quranic experts contacted by WND. "I have pointed to this section of the Quran as showing the importance of jihad and to follow the prophet (Muhammad) in jihad even though a war may be difficult," Abu Abaida Al-Ahmed, the imam of a central mosque in Gaza City, told WND. Obama quoted the verse in question during a section of his speech where he was stressing a "new beginning" between the U.S. and the Muslim world, and the need for a "sustained effort to listen to each other." Obama continued: "As the Holy Quran tells us, 'Be conscious of God and speak always the truth.' That is what I will try to do - to speak the truth as best I can, humbled by the task before us, and firm in my belief that the interests we share as human beings are far more powerful than the forces that drive us apart." Obama was reading from chapter 9 verse 119 of the Quran, which deals with the theme of not abandoning Muhammad. The next Quranic passage continues: "Neither the dwellers of the city, nor the Arabs around them, shall seek to stay behind the messenger of Allah (when he mobilizes for war). Nor shall they give priority to their own affairs over supporting him. This is because they do not suffer any thirst, or any effort, or hunger in the cause of Allah, or take a single step that enrages the disbelievers, or inflict any hardship upon the enemy, without having it written down for them as a credit. Allah never fails to recompense those who work righteousness." The two passages are part of a Quranic section scolding local Muslims in Medina for refusing to accompany Muhammad on a war expedition to Tabouk in northern Arabia, where he was seeking to fight a Byzantine garrison. Abu Saqer, the head of Jahidiya Salifiyah, an Islamic outreach movement in Gaza, explained there are two main interpretations of the verse cited by Obama: "First that you should follow the truth of Allah, but in specific to follow those who are in jihad with the prophet in spite of the great heat of going to war," he said. Al Ahmed, the Gaza imam, stated, "The verses come from the period of the Al-Tabouk war, the year when the prophet left Mecca for Madina." The main official Quranic exegesis, or tafsir, concerning verse 119 deals with the importance of speaking the truth. A secondary tafsir, however, uses the verse quoted by Obama to argue for jihad. That tafsir reads: "(Be careful of your duty to Allah) obey Allah in that which he has commanded you, (and be with the Truthful) with Abu Bakr, 'Umar and their companions when they stay behind and when they participate in jihad." During his speech in Cairo last week, Obama referred to the Quran as "holy" four times and quoted several verses from the Islamic text. He also used Muslim terminology, such as the Quranic obligation of "zakat" or charity. The speech, in which Obama referenced his Islamic experiences as a child in Indonesia and the Muslim faith of his paternal family, was a major departure from the tone of his campaign last year, when Obama and his team emphasized the then-candidate's stated Christian faith. "Man speak with fork tongue" b'Ahavat Yehudah v'Yisrael JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/c850a498/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 16220 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/c850a498/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 20733 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090609/c850a498/attachment-0001.jpe From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 06:17:36 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:17:36 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "Obama's Arabian Dreams" Message-ID: <855590370906100417n6079ef8elb778e5653aa36a87@mail.gmail.com> [image: The Jerusalem Post Internet Edition] Column One: Obama's Arabian dreams Jun. 5, 2009 Caroline Glick , THE JERUSALEM POST US President Barack Obama claims to be a big fan of telling the truth. In media interviews ahead of his trip to Saudi Arabia and Egypt and during his big speech in Cairo on Thursday, he claimed that the centerpiece of his Middle East policy is his willingness to tell people hard truths. Indeed, Obama made three references to the need to tell the truth in his so-called address to the Muslim world. Unfortunately, for a speech billed as an exercise in truth telling, Obama's address fell short. Far from reflecting hard truths, Obama's speech reflected political convenience. Obama's so-called hard truths for the Islamic world included statements about the need to fight so-called extremists; give equal rights to women; provide freedom of religion; and foster democracy. Unfortunately, all of his statements on these issues were nothing more than abstract, theoretical declarations devoid of policy prescriptions. He spoke of the need to fight Islamic terrorists without mentioning that their intellectual, political and monetary foundations and support come from the very mosques, politicians and regimes in Saudi Arabia and Egypt that Obama extols as moderate and responsible. He spoke of the need to grant equality to women without making mention of common Islamic practices like so-called honor killings, and female genital mutilation. He ignored the fact that throughout the lands of Islam women are denied basic legal and human rights. And then he qualified his statement by mendaciously claiming that women in the US similarly suffer from an equality deficit. In so discussing this issue, Obama sent the message that he couldn't care less about the plight of women in the Islamic world. So, too, Obama spoke about the need for religious freedom but ignored Saudi Arabian religious apartheid. He talked about the blessings of democracy but ignored the problems of tyranny. In short, Obama's "straight talk" to the Arab world, which began with his disingenuous claim that like America, Islam is committed to "justice and progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings," was consciously and fundamentally fraudulent. And this fraud was advanced to facilitate his goal of placing the Islamic world on equal moral footing with the free world. In a like manner, Obama's tough "truths" about Israel were marked by factual and moral dishonesty in the service of political ends. On the surface, Obama seemed to scold the Muslim world for its all-pervasive Holocaust denial and craven Jew hatred. By asserting that Holocaust denial and anti-Semitism are wrong, he seemed to be upholding his earlier claim that America's ties to Israel are "unbreakable." Unfortunately, a careful study of his statements shows that Obama was actually accepting the Arab view that Israel is a foreign - and therefore unjustifiable - intruder in the Arab world. Indeed, far from attacking their rejection of Israel, Obama legitimized it. The basic Arab argument against Israel is that the only reason Israel was established was to soothe the guilty consciences of Europeans who were embarrassed about the Holocaust. By their telling, the Jews have no legal, historic or moral rights to the Land of Israel. This argument is completely false. The international community recognized the legal, historic and moral rights of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel long before anyone had ever heard of Adolf Hitler. In 1922, the League of Nations mandated the "reconstitution" - not the creation - of the Jewish commonwealth in the Land of Israel in its historic borders on both sides of the Jordan River. But in his self-described exercise in truth telling, Obama ignored this basic truth in favor of the Arab lie. He gave credence to this lie by stating wrongly that "the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history." He then explicitly tied Israel's establishment to the Holocaust by moving to a self-serving history lesson about the genocide of European Jewry. Even worse than his willful blindness to the historic, legal and moral justifications for Israel's rebirth, was Obama's characterization of Israel itself. Obama blithely, falsely and obnoxiously compared Israel's treatment of Palestinians to white American slave owners' treatment of their black slaves. He similarly cast Palestinian terrorists in the same morally pure category as slaves. Perhaps most repulsively, Obama elevated Palestinian terrorism to the moral heights of slave rebellions and the US civil rights movement by referring to it by its Arab euphemism, "resistance." BUT AS disappointing and frankly obscene as Obama's rhetoric was, the policies he outlined were much worse. While prattling about how Islam and America are two sides of the same coin, Obama managed to spell out two clear policies. First, he announced that he will compel Israel to completely end all building for Jews in Judea, Samaria, and eastern, northern and southern Jerusalem. Second, he said that he will strive to convince Iran to substitute its nuclear weapons program with a nuclear energy program. Obama argued that the first policy will facilitate peace and the second policy will prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. Upon reflection, however, it is clear that neither of his policies can possibly achieve his stated aims. Indeed, their inability to accomplish the ends he claims he has adopted them to advance is so obvious, that it is worth considering what his actual rationale for adopting them may be. The administration's policy toward Jewish building in Israel's heartland and capital city expose a massive level of hostility toward Israel. Not only does it fly in the face of explicit US commitments to Israel undertaken by the Bush administration, it contradicts a longstanding agreement between successive Israeli and American governments not to embarrass each other. Moreover, the fact that the administration cannot stop attacking Israel about Jewish construction in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria, but has nothing to say about Hizbullah's projected democratic takeover of Lebanon next week, Hamas's genocidal political platform, Fatah's involvement in terrorism, or North Korean ties to Iran and Syria, has egregious consequences for the prospects for peace in the region. As Fatah leader Mahmoud Abbas made clear in his interview last week with The Washington Post, in light of the administration's hostility toward Israel, the Palestinian Authority no longer feels it is necessary to make any concessions whatsoever to Israel. It needn't accept Israel's identity as a Jewish state. It needn't minimize in any way its demand that Israel commit demographic suicide by accepting millions of foreign, hostile Arabs as full citizens. And it needn't curtail its territorial demand that Israel contract to within indefensible borders. In short, by attacking Israel and claiming that Israel is responsible for the absence of peace, the administration is encouraging the Palestinians and the Arab world as a whole to continue to reject Israel and to refuse to make peace with the Jewish state. The Netanyahu government reportedly fears that Obama and his advisers have made such an issue of settlements because they seek to overthrow Israel's government and replace it with the more pliable Kadima party. Government sources note that White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel played a central role in destabilizing Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's first government in 1999, when he served as an adviser to then president Bill Clinton. They also note that Emmanuel is currently working with leftist Israelis and American Jews associated with Kadima and the Democratic Party to discredit the government. While there is little reason to doubt that the Obama administration would prefer a leftist government in Jerusalem, it is unlikely that the White House is attacking Israel primarily to advance this aim. This is first of all the case because today there is little danger that Netanyahu's coalition partners will abandon him. Moreover, the Americans have no reason to believe that prospects for a peace deal would improve with a leftist government at the helm in Jerusalem. After all, despite its best efforts, the Kadima government was unable to make peace with the Palestinians, as was the Labor government before it. What the Palestinians have shown consistently since the failed 2000 Camp David summit is that there is no deal that Israel can offer them that they are willing to accept. So if the aim of the administration in attacking Israel is neither to foster peace nor to bring down the Netanyahu government, what can explain its behavior? The only reasonable explanation is that the administration is baiting Israel because it wishes to abandon the Jewish state as an ally in favor of warmer ties with the Arabs. It has chosen to attack Israel on the issue of Jewish construction because it believes that by concentrating on this issue, it will minimize the political price it will be forced to pay at home for jettisoning America's alliance with Israel. By claiming that he is only pressuring Israel to enable a peaceful "two-state solution," Obama assumes that he will be able to maintain his support base among American Jews who will overlook the underlying hostility his "pro-peace" stance papers over. OBAMA'S POLICY toward Iran is a logical complement of his policy toward Israel. Just as there is no chance that he will bring Middle East peace closer by attacking Israel, so he will not prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons by offering the mullahs nuclear energy. The deal Obama is now proposing has been on the table since 2003, when Iran's nuclear program was first exposed. Over the past six years, the Iranians have repeatedly rejected it. Indeed, just last week they again announced that they reject it. Here, too, to understand the president's actual goal it is necessary to search for the answers closer to home. Since Obama's policy has no chance of preventing Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, it is apparent that he has come to terms with the prospect of a nuclear armed Iran. In light of this, the most rational explanation for his policy of engagement is that he wishes to avoid being blamed when Iran emerges as a nuclear power in the coming months. In reckoning with the Obama administration, it is imperative that the Netanyahu government and the public alike understand the true goals of its current policies. Happily, consistent polling data show that the overwhelming majority of Israelis realize that the White House is deeply hostile toward Israel. The data also show that the public approves of Netanyahu's handling of our relations with Washington. Moving forward, the government must sustain this public awareness and support. By his words as well as by his deeds, not only has Obama shown that he is not a friend of Israel. He has shown that there is nothing that Israel can do to make him change his mind. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1244035008682&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/f2c9c462/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jun 10 07:21:57 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:21:57 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo]] Message-ID: <4A2FA565.3020102@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/38bf5e88/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Patty " Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo] Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:29:54 -0400 Size: 75061 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/38bf5e88/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jun 10 07:28:25 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:28:25 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] NBC, Obama & the Lessons of Buchenwald Message-ID: <4A2FA6E9.2090404@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/f4ee21d4/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jun 10 08:02:45 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:02:45 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] 'America's first Muslim president?' What else?] Message-ID: <4A2FAEF5.6020806@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/c21e95d7/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Douglas Allen Subject: [Dialogue] 'America's first Muslim president?' What else? Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:38:46 -0400 Size: 21490 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/c21e95d7/attachment.eml From stephen at 777jesusislord.com Wed Jun 10 08:22:38 2009 From: stephen at 777jesusislord.com (stephen) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:22:38 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] snakes in glass References: <4A2F1AAF.C7F57.608C@iris1.directnic.com> Message-ID: <63EF2E3A5CD24F879F2BF5E9355EAA9B@SEWVAC011> I had to send that one to one of my Senators in Washington :) Cut n paste: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm stephen Snakes in Glass Houses Many of our good friends and longtime Beams readers have written lately and asked why I haven't yet made a frontal assault on Mister Vin DC. The reason is simple - we have moved a giant step closer to the Geula. Politics and politicking no longer determine anything. The closer we get to Moshiach, the more Hashem is revealing His individual tailor-made precision Divine Providence over the entire universe, and within each individual. Hashem put Obama in power. True, the future of Israel seems bleak. Obama, who in Cherokee dialect would be called *inadu* because of his forked tongue, promised to end American dictates around the world. Yet, in Israel, he and his emissaries are doing their utmost to ram unkosher policies down Jewish throats. Yet, a snake doesn't bite unless Hashem tells it too. Obama and his threat against hundreds of thousand of Jewish homes in Judea, Samaria, and the suburbs of Jerusalem are merely a wake-up call designed for us to strengthen ourselves in teshuva and emuna. Political activism didn't save Gush Katif and it won't save Beitar or Maale Edumim - only teshuva and personal prayer will. All of the severe prophecies about bloodshed and redemption are true, but by way of personal prayer - especially thanking Hashem profusely for all of our trials and tribulations as well as our blessings, the sever prophecies and stern judgments will be mitigated and the Geula will come peacefully and sweetly. Meanwhile, one who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones. In the name of my dear Cherokee friends and brothers, the USA should return to its 1831 borders, when the Indian Act disenfranchised the Cherokee nation from their tribal lands in North Carolina. The US Government must respect and acknowledge the legitimate rights of the Cherokee Nation, and all the white-man settlements including Raleigh and Durham must be dismantled immediately. Once a fair peace agreement is reached with the Cherokee, then the USA must negotiate with the Sioux, the Cheyenne, the Navajo, the Apaches, the Nez Perces... the list is long. When the US Government finishes repairing its own injustice, crimes, and acts of genocide against Native Americans, then maybe they'll be able to stick their noses in our business. Now, we can finally realize why zoos keep snakes in glass houses. From ptyler at aac-usa.com Wed Jun 10 08:48:22 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:48:22 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] RE: The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo In-Reply-To: <4A2FA565.3020102@westnet.com.au> References: <4A2FA565.3020102@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <169201c9e9d2$20808f70$6181ae50$@com> Shalom Joe, thank you for your reply which I will consider very carefully. Blessings, Patty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of JOE INDOMENICO Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:22 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Dialogue] The answer to Obama's speech in Cairo]] Shalom Patty, I trust you read the link from "Jihad Watch." If not , here is an excerpt. Obama quoted a Qur'an verse about waging war to argue for peace and shared interests Foes of the global jihad are constantly accused of quoting the Qur'an "out of context," but when Barack Obama actually did so in Cairo yesterday, no one seems to have minded. He quoted one Qur'an verse in connection with speaking of our shared interests as human beings: As the Holy Koran tells us, "Be conscious of God and speak always the truth." That is what I will try to do ? to speak the truth as best I can, humbled by the task before us, and firm in my belief that the interests we share as human beings are far more powerful than the forces that drive us apart. Ironically, the Qur'anic passage from which his quote comes actually is about fighting unbelievers, and doesn't remotely lead to thoughts of coming together with people with whom one has differences. Obama quoted 9:119, which Pickthall renders this way: "O ye who believe! Be careful of your duty to Allah, and be with the truthful." The passage continues: It is not for the townsfolk of Al-Madinah and for those around them of the wandering Arabs to stay behind the messenger of Allah and prefer their lives to his life. That is because neither thirst nor toil nor hunger afflicteth them in the way of Allah, nor step they any step that angereth the disbelievers, nor gain they from the enemy a gain, but a good deed is recorded for them therefor. Lo! Allah loseth not the wages of the good. Nor spend they any spending, small or great, nor do they cross a valley, but it is recorded for them, that Allah may repay them the best of what they used to do. And the believers should not all go out to fight. Of every troop of them, a party only should go forth, that they (who are left behind) may gain sound knowledge in religion, and that they may warn their folk when they return to them, so that they may beware. O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him). -- 9:120-123 (this was omitted) In that passage, the Qur'an is scolding Muslims who refused to accompany Muhammad on his expedition to Tabouk in northern Arabia, where he wanted to fight a Byzantine garrison. The Byzantines weren't there when he arrived, and so there was no battle, but he was considerably angered that some Muslims in Medina and among the Bedouins ("wandering Arabs") had refused to make the trip -- they "prefer[red] their lives to his life." The Qur'an promises that if they do anything that "angereth the disbelievers," they will be credited with having done a good deed, and Allah will repay them for such good deeds. The Muslims should fight the unbelievers and be harsh with them. Obama picked out of this one sentence that made it appear as if the Qur'an was simply counseling one to speak the truth, mindful of the divine presence. In reality, the passage is about the necessity to wage jihad warfare against unbelievers, and not to fail to perform this duty. He took a passage about warfare and division and passed it off as part of a call for us all to come together and sing kumbaya. Yet neither Honest Ibe Hooper of CAIR nor any other Muslim spokesman is complaining today that Obama quoted the Qur'an out of context. How strange! If memory serves me correct in 1994 at the International Islamic Leaders conference in Johannesburg, South Africa, Yassar Arafat was lambasted by Islamic leaders for signing the Oslo Peace Accord and having anything to do with Israel. Yassar, may his name be blotted out, retorted by reminding them of the infamous peace treaty between Mohamed and the tribe of Choresh. Once the treaty was in place and each group worshiped their own god, Mohamed then proceeded to slaughter every man , woman and child. The tyrant made a big point of it. I do not wish to be pugnacious here but in a recent post you said, "What I?m having trouble with is during the presidential campaign, any connection to Obama?s Muslim roots was called a ?smear? and now he is openly admitting/using this fact. The Truth that Obama is talking about is certainly not the Torah. He quoted the Qu'ran. Which is not the truth. Rabbi Richman made that quite clear in the video . The Torah is very explicit that the Holy Land belongs to Avraham - Yitzchak and Yacov. No Esav- No Yishmael. Who is telling the truth here ? Certainly not Obama. ?? ??????? ????-??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???????, ?????? ?????? ??????, ????????? ?????, ??????????; ?????-??????? ??????? ?????? ??????, ???? ?????? ???????. 18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken. ?? ?????????? ???????? ???-??? ??????, ????????????? ???-?????????????, ?????????? ???-?????? ?????????, ????? ?????? ?????????; ???????????, ???-??????????. 19 And they of the South shall possess the mount of Esau, and they of the Lowland the Philistines; and they shall possess the field of Ephraim, and the field of Samaria; and Benjamin shall possess Gilead. ? ??????? ?????-?????? ??????? ?????????? ??????-???????????, ???-???????, ??????? ????????????, ?????? ??????????--????????, ??? ????? ????????. 20 And the captivity of this host of the children of Israel, that are among the Canaanites, even unto Zarephath, and the captivity of Jerusalem, that is in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the South. ?? ??????? ?????????? ?????? ???????, ????????? ???-??? ??????; ????????? ???????, ???????????. {?} 21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S. {P} These scriptures from the prophet Ovadiyah are the truth. Any Palestinian ( sorry no such people ever existed) excuse me, any Arab who renounces terror, violence, Islam, Mecca, Qu'ran, Mohamed,the tooth fairy and accepts peace, love, Torah, YHVH, Yerushalayim, Mashiach ben David,then and only then will I listen to what he or she has to say. They will then be firmly established in TRUTH. As far as Yishmael goes, this is what the Torah says in Genesis chapter 16 v 12. ?? ?????? ???????, ?????? ?????--????? ??????, ????? ???? ????; ?????-?????? ???-??????, ?????????. 12 And he shall be a wild ass of a man: his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the face of all his brethren.' As another aside, the Talmud relates that Esav contested Yacov's right to be interred in the Cave of Machpelah, whereupon the fleet footed Naftali dashed all the way to get bring the deed ( as noted in Genesis 49:21 ). When Chushim, the deaf son of Dan, realized what was happening, he became infuriated and shouted, "Shall my grandfather lie there in disgrace until Naftali returns from Egypt!" Thereupon , Chusim took a club and struck Esav so hard that he killed him (Sotah 13a) According to Pirkei d'Rabbi Eliezer36, the force of the blow decapitated Esav, and his head rolled into the cave, at Yacov's feet. Since Esav studied Torah under Avraham and Yitzchak, he deserved some reward. But his study was only a mental exercise that never entered his bloodstream or his organs. He never took the Torah to heart, or used it to guide his actions. Thus, only his head could enter the cave for burial, but not his limbs and other organs (R' Aharon Koller). When Yacov tells his brother Esav to please proceed to Mount Seir and that he will come later at his own pace because of the company of wives and children and herds that accompanied him, the Torah tells us that Yacov went to Succot. The Midrash tells us that this is an allusion to the end of days when Yacov's offspring , the Mashiach , will eventually catch up with Esav and settle the accounts. Note, the place mentioned is "Succot" Patty, please do not be so naive as to think that the Muslims are so tolerant and peace seeking. There might be the odd few , like Sheik Abdul Palazzi, but they are the exception not the norm. It is the belief of Islam to convert the entire world with the use of Jihad. There is one issue that galvanizes all Muslims and that is the plight of the Palestinians, darn there I go again, I should say the Arabs in the land. Do not bother practicing the words of Kumbaya. Spend your time trying on the hijabs and burkas and learn to walk behind the man for this is the way of Islam. This is not about conspiracy theories , this is about prophecy in full swing culminating in the climax of the ages. The cosmic collision between the sons of light and the sons of darkness, between the sons of Tzion and the sons of Greece, between truth and lies, between HaShem and anyone who wishes to hinder His Malchut Shamayim. Obama and his cronies in the west and Islam, what are their chances ?????? Don't bother asking. As for me and my house, we will serve YHVH, because He is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I will follow His Torah. I will reach out to my only brothers and sisters of Beit Yehudah and Beit Yisrael whilst reaching out to all righteous and G-d fearing people. I will support the settlement of HaShem's Holy Land by His chosen people and no one else. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/d1539c84/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 09:50:05 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:50:05 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Yes, I figured it out!! Message-ID: <855590370906100750t1c53809l866c387f7fcf8c53@mail.gmail.com> After reading the article excerpted below, I was extremely puzzled at first. It seemed that U.S. Middle East envoy George Mitchell was offering the Arabs, referred to as so-called, "Palestinians" parts of Israel (G-d forbid) that had large Arab populations. Now, remember of course, that there are no 'Arab towns or villages' in Israel; only ones that belong to the Hebrew people (currently represented in Israel by the Jewish people), that are TEMPORARILY occupied by Arabs. I couldn't even figure out why an * American* was involved in a decision regarding the Land that HaShem has chosen to give to HIS people as an everlasting possession. But, now I've got it!!! I figured it out!!! Hanoch has figured it out!! :-) :-) Mitchell, on behalf of the Barak Hussein Obama administration is offering those areas of AMERICA with large Muslim populations!!! It couldn't possibly have been Israel he was referring to, right?!?! :-) He means all those parts of California, Indiana and of course Michigan with very large Arab populations. And of course, Jersey City and Patterson, New Jersey and BROOKLYN, too!! I think it is incredibly generous of America to offer to house all those Arabs currently in Israel in THEIR centers of Muslim population here in the U.S. Oh, and when the President refers to the U.S. as having one of the largest Muslim populations in the world, does he know something that no one else here knows? Or did Barak not learn math as he was studying his Koran, growing up? And , who would believe American promise now, about anything? Sarcastically yours, *Hanoch* *Mitchell Offers Swap of Israeli and Arab Population Centers *by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu [image: BBC: Mitchell Offers Land Swap] U.S. Middle East envoy George Mitchell sounded out the Palestinian Authority on a land swap that would allow Israel to retain large population centers in Judea and Samaria in return for the PA?s receiving land that includes Arab cities. He broached the idea in his meeting Wednesday morning with PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, according to the BBC. The PA has not confirmed or denied the report. U.S. President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu have been at loggerheads over the issue of the Jewish areas, where the president wants a halt to all construction. Israel has maintained that it cannot stop families from growing and prevent their children from marrying and needing homes of their own. In addition, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has said that the Obama government will not honor a promise in a letter to Israel by former President George W. Bush that the large population centers would not be included in a future PA country. The land swap idea originally was proposed by Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, chairman of the Yisrael Beiteinu party. Maaleh Adumim, Gush Etzion, Beitar Illit, Ariel and possible the Karnei-Ginot Shomron communities would be under Israeli sovereignty if the proposal were to be accepted. In return, Israel would surrender to the proposed PA state areas with a concentration of Arabs, most probably the Triangle area between Netanya and Kfar Saba, which is part of the Galilee. Surveys have shown that Arabs living in eastern Jerusalem, which the PA wants as its capital, are opposed to losing their Israeli citizenship, which provides them with financial benefits and services that the PA so far does not provide. Arabs with Israeli citizenship in other areas enjoy Knesset representation, and it is also not certain that they will be anxious to become citizens of an unknown PA state instead. Comment on this story -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/7f0573f7/attachment.html From j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 10 11:33:33 2009 From: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net (Helen Lusk) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" Message-ID: <74369.73863.qm@web82508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Women in Green To: wfit2 at womeningreen.org Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:25:57 AM Subject: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" Instructions for unsubscribing can be found in the footer of this message. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- A very powerful letter from a very courageous lady. Dear Mr. President, You face difficult challenges in matters such as achieving peace in the Middle East and protecting America from the threat of radical Islam and terrorism. These are challenges that have vexed past presidents, going as far back as our second president, John Adams. I have no doubt you appreciate both the gravity of these challenges and the enormous obstacles that exist to solving them. I also have no doubt that you and your staff understood that, no matter what you said in your speech last Thursday in Cairo, there would be those who would take issue with you. That is always the case when attempting to solve problems that are as deep and emotionally-laden as these challenges are. I am assuming it is your sincere hope that the approach you have chosen to take, as evidenced by what I?m sure was a carefully crafted speech, will ultimately prove successful. However, it pains me to say this sir, but, while you said in your speech that you are a ?student of history,? it is abundantly clear that, in these matters, you do not know history and thus, as Santayana noted, you are doomed to repeat it. In doing so your efforts, however well-intentioned they may be, will not produce what you profess to hope they will produce. A wise man once said that if you start with the wrong assumptions, no matter how logical your reasoning is, you will end up with the wrong conclusion. With all due respect Mr. President, you are starting with certain assumptions that are unsupported by history and an objective study of the ideology of political Islam. You began in your speech by asserting that ?tensions? exist between the United States and Muslims around the world, which, of course, is correct. Unfortunately, you then proceeded, incorrectly, to lay virtually all the blame for these tensions at the feet of America and the West. You blamed western colonialism, the Cold War, and even modernity and globalism. A student of American history, who is not trying to reconstruct it to fit a modern politically correct narrative, would state that tensions between America and Muslims began with the unprovoked, four-decades long assault by the Muslim Barbary pirates against American shipping in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. I find it telling that you mentioned the Treaty of Tripoli in your speech but ignored the circumstances that led to it. That treaty was but one of numerous attempts by the United States to achieve peace with the jihadists of the Barbary Coast who were attacking our shipping and killing and enslaving our citizens and our soldiers ? and who by their own admission were doing so to fulfill the call to jihad. These jihadists were not acting to protest American foreign policy, which was decidedly isolationist, and there was no state of Israel to scapegoat. They were doing what countless Islamic jihadists have done throughout history ? acting upon the hundreds of passages in the Qur?an and the Hadith that call upon faithful Muslims to kill, conquer or subjugate the infidel. A student of world history would know that, for all the acknowledged evils of Western colonialism, these evils pale in comparison to the nearly 14 centuries of Islamic colonialism that began in Arabia under the leadership of Mohammed. The student of history would know that Islamic forces eradicated all Jewish and Christian presence from Arabia after Mohammed?s death, and then succeeded in conquering all of North Africa, most of the Middle East, much of Asia Minor, and significant portions of Europe and India ? eventually creating an empire larger than Rome?s was at its peak. The number of dead and enslaved during these many centuries of Islamic imperial conquest and colonialism have been estimated to total more than 300 million. What?s more, the wealth of many of the conquered nations and cultures was plundered by the Islamic conquerors, and millions of millions of non-Muslims who did survive were forced to pay onerous taxes, such as the ?jizya,? a humiliation tax to the Islamic caliphs. Indeed, in some areas Christians and Jews were made to wear a receipt for the jizya around their neck as a mark of their dishonor. These facts have not been invented by Christian or Jewish historical revisionists, but were chronicled by Muslim eyewitnesses throughout the past 14 centuries and are available to be researched by any person seeking an objective understanding of how Islam spread throughout the world. You say in your speech that we must squarely face the tensions that exist between America and the Muslim world. That is a laudable notion with which I agree, but by casting Islam as the historical victim and the West (and by implication, America) as the aggressor, you do not face these tensions squarely, but alleviate the Muslim world from coming to grips with the jihadist ideology embedded in its holy books and acted upon for 1,400 years. Even worse, you empower and embolden militant Islamists who regard your gestures as signs of weakness and capitulation. The issue is not that all Muslims are terrorists or radicals or extremists. We all know that the majority of Muslims are not. We also know that many peace-loving Muslims are victims of Islamist violence. The issue is this: what drives hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide to call for the death of Jews? What drives millions of Muslims to riot, destroy property, and take innocent lives in reaction to the Danish cartoons? What drives tens of thousands of Muslims to demand the execution of a British teacher whose only ?crime? was allowing her students to name their teddy bears ?Mohammed?? What drives countless Muslims worldwide to actively participate in, or fund, or provide nurture to, terrorist organizations? What drives Muslims in mosques in America to proclaim and distribute materials that call for hatred of and the destruction of infidels? What drives entire Islamic countries to prohibit the building of a Christian church or synagogue? To assume, as you apparently do, that what drives these actions is not an ideology embedded in the holy books of Islam, but rather other ?root causes,? most of which you lay at the feet of America and the West, is at best na?ve and at worst dangerous. Lastly, I must address your statement that ?Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance.? Unfortunately, the examples you gave are the exception rather than the rule. Historically speaking, I seriously doubt the Egyptian Copts, the Lebanese Maronites, the Christians in Bethlehem, the Assyrians, the Hindus, the Jews, and many others who have been persecuted by Islamic violence and supremacism, would agree with your assertion. For instance, Christians and Jews became ?Dhimmis,? a second class group under Islam. Dhimmis were forced to wear distinctive clothing; it was Baghdad?s Caliph Al-Mutawakkil, in the ninth century, who designated a yellow badge for Jews under Islam, which Hitler copied and duplicated in Nazi Germany nearly a thousand years later. I witnessed first-hand the ?tolerance? of Islam when Islamists ravaged my country of birth, Lebanon, in the 1970?s, leaving widespread death and destruction in their wake. I saw how they re-paid the tolerance that Lebanese Christians extended toward them. My experience is not an isolated one. When you make an unfounded assertion about the ?proud tradition? of tolerance in Islam, you do a great disservice to the hundreds of millions of non-Muslims who have been killed, maimed, enslaved, conquered, subjugated or displaced ? in the cause of Islamic jihad. Mr. President, those of us like me who are ringing the alarm in America about the threat of radical Islam would like nothing better than to peacefully co-exist with the Muslim world. Most Americans would like nothing better than to peacefully co-exist with the Muslim world. The obstacle to achieving this does not lie with us in America and the West. It lies with the hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide, including many of their spiritual leaders, who take seriously the repeated calls to jihad in the Qur?an and the Hadith. Who regard ?infidels? as inferior and worthy of conquering, subjugating and forcibly converting. Who support ?cultural jihad? as a means to subvert non-Muslim societies from within. Who take seriously the admonitions throughout the Qur?an and the Hadith to convert the world to Islam ? by force if necessary ? and bring it under the rule of Allah. Unless you are willing to courageously and honestly accept this, your aspirations for worldwide comity and peace in the Middle East are doomed to fail. Sincerely, Brigitte Gabriel ============================================= Women For Israel's Tomorrow? (Women in Green) POB 7352, Jerusalem 91072, Israel Tel: 972-2-624-9887 Fax: 972-2-624-5380 mailto:wfit2 at womeningreen.org http://www.womeningreen.org To subscribe to the Women in Green list, please send a blank email message to: list4-subscribe at womeningreen.org Check your spam filter for confirmation to reply to To unsubscribe from the Women in Green list, please send a blank email message to: list4-unsubscribe at womeningreen.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/4a06fd47/attachment.html From oneillcody at yahoo.com Wed Jun 10 13:04:03 2009 From: oneillcody at yahoo.com (Cody) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Rev. Wright Message-ID: <234014.61341.qm@web37303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> dailypress.com/news/dp-local_wright_0610jun10,0,7603283.storydailypress.comRev. Wright says he doesn't regret severed relationship with presidentBy DAVID SQUIRES247-4639June 10, 2009HAMPTON ?The Rev. Jeremiah Wright says he does not feel any regrets over his severed relationship with President Barack Obama, a former member of the Chicago church in which Wright was the longtime pastor. Wright also said that he had not spoken to his former church member since Obama became president, implying that the White House won't allow Obama to talk to him. He did not indicate whether he had tried to reach Obama. "Regret for what... that the media went back five, seven, 10 years and spent $4,000 buying 20 years worth of sermons to hear what I've been preaching for 20 years? "Regret for preaching like I've been preaching for 50 years? Absolutely none," Wright said. Wright said that when he went to the polls, he did not hold any grudge against Obama. "Of course I voted for him; he's my son. I'm proud of him," Wright said. "I've got five biological kids. They all make mistakes and bad choices. I haven't stopped loving any of them. "He made mistakes. He made bad choices. I've got kids who listen to their friends. He listened to those around him. I did not disown him." Asked if he had spoken to the President, Wright said: "Them Jews aren't going to let him talk to me. I told my baby daughter, that he'll talk to me in five years when he's a lame duck, or in eight years when he's out of office. ... "They will not let him to talk to somebody who calls a spade what it is. ... I said from the beginning: He's a politician; I'm a pastor. He's got to do what politicians do." Wright also said Obama should have sent a U.S. delegation to the World Conference on Racism held recently in Geneva, Switzerland, but that the president did not do so for fear of offending Jews and Israel. "Ethnic cleansing is going on in Gaza. Ethnic cleansing of the Zionist is a sin and a crime against humanity, and they don't want Barack talking like that because that's anti-Israel," Wright said. Wright is in Hampton this week attending Hampton University's 95th Annual Ministers Conference. The son of a pastor, Wright said he has attended the conference since he was a child ? though he was not spotted at the conference in 2008 during the heat of the debate over comments he made that many in the media branded racially divisive. Perhaps without the Wright controversy, the issue of race might not have become a part of the 2008 Presidential campaign. After the initial rounds of the controversy, Obama made his famous speech in Philadelphia on race relations, in which he said he could no more disown Wright than his own grandmother. But the issue heated up after more comments by Wright at the National Press Club and from other controversial speakers at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. Obama eventually distanced himself from the church. To read more, see tomorrow's edition of the Daily Press.Copyright ? 2009,?Newport News, Va., Daily Press -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/da5c2769/attachment.html From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 19:01:08 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:01:08 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.]] In-Reply-To: References: <4A2E4A54.2020401@westnet.com.au> <855590370906091536w5062d721kd17959c7a60aeb17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906101701i7c50db37s1f43b71248509c26@mail.gmail.com> I'm been offline for a few days. I am glad you all will joining in the prayer for our "children". John, The event is no longer on SWW. Do you know what happened? Should I repost it? Kim On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 8:23 PM, patricia robbins < patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com> wrote: > Well said, Hanoch. I'll be praying too. > > Avigail > > ------------------------------ > Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:36:15 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.]] > From: youngbarzel at gmail.com > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > > > Hey Joe, > > I'm not mad at John either, :-) but I also want to be counted in for > the special Tefilot we intend to say on behalf of ALL the children of ALL of > Israel. Kim, that still fits the original idea, right?!?! Notice when you > go back and read Yehezkel (Ezekiel) Chapter 37 (which I now can associate > chapter/verse after my first of two PR's). For the "two sticks" to be > joined, it's not just Judah and Israel/Ephraim/Joseph, but also, "..*and > those associated with them." * > ** > * *That's a LOT of children to pray for....our own little families, and > our really BIG ONE. May HaShem realize that we did the best we possibly > could, under the circumstances we all were in, at that time, for our own > children. May HE look out for ALL of HIS children, now, and forever... > *Hanoch* > * * > > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:41 AM, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: > > *Shalom Eliron, > > did I miss something? > Why would I be mad at you , achi ? > I have no grounds whatsoever. In fact you and Carin are very dear to me. > > I did request leave from the dialogue list a couple of weeks ago due to > work commitments after we had severe storms here in Australia. The damage > was incredible. Being an Architect, I hope you understand the enormity of my > duties towards rectification and remedial work, not only to property but > shattered human lives. > Things are only just starting to go back to normal. > Last Erev Shabbat, my great companion, Vanya the wonder dog, finally > succumbed to old age and passed away at the age of 14. Last Shabbat was the > first in 13 years without my old mate. Heidi and I are still devastated at > the loss but gradually coming to terms with it. > > With regards to Hannah's prayer request this coming Shabbat - USA time , we > will get things started here in the land down under a day in advance and you > can put the icing on the cake as a grand finale. > It is such a worthy cause to pray for the children and babes, I could not > think of a better request to our beloved Abba in Shamayim. He sees us all as > His children. > The spirit of Eliyahu is indeed in full swing as he is restoring us to the > faith of the Avot, but none greater than our Creator and Heavenly Father. > Baruch HaShem. > > Let us get this prayer chain happening. > In full support. > > A special hug and kiss to Carin. > > Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > * > > Thank you Joe. > > Personally, I'm hoping that this will be a sweet savor for His nostrils. > > (I was beginning to think you were mad at me you didn't answer some of my > last responses to you, it was awhile ago). > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : > -------------- > > *Shalom Eliron and Hannah, > > count me in, all the way. > > I have no children, however I will pray for all my G-d children and all the > children of all the wonderful people on the dialogue list. > A special prayer should be made for the babes of Torah, that they should be > nurtured by the milk of Torah, comforted and encouraged by the veterans. > > I will be with y'all next Erev Shabbat in spirit and in the truth of Torah. > > Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > > * > > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/3b838ee9/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Wed Jun 10 20:10:23 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (Patty ) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:10:23 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Israeli Robot Snake In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <173001c9ea31$677a1180$366e3480$@com> Hi Pat, I saw this thing move on TV and it was creepier than a real snake! But if it saves lives, it is good. Patty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:20 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Israeli Robot Snake _____ Israeli military develops robot snake for battlefield, children's nightmares 06-09-2009 While this is by no means the first time we've seen a robotic snake prototype, it isn't every day that we find one so close to deployment. This self-propelling, two feet long robot can crawl along the ground, climb through debris, and even stand erect to give the operator a better view. The Israeli Defense Force is will use this thing for routine surveillance and reconnaissance, broadcasting video and sound to a monitor and control station. And if this is not enough? In that case, the prototype can be wired with explosives -- making it, according to the Jerusalem Post, a "suicide snake." Fun! And rather upsetting. No proposed price or timetable yet, but you can see the thing in action for yourself after the break. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/8c0e5254/attachment.html From oneillcody at yahoo.com Wed Jun 10 20:50:35 2009 From: oneillcody at yahoo.com (Cody) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Things to Watch for Message-ID: <217854.44327.qm@web37308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just wanted to list a few things that have been on my mind. ? We all see what is happening here in the US and across the world. ?We can see the Anti-Semitism on the rise. ?Just today, a man went on a rampage in DC at the Holocaust Museum. ?Things like this are going to become more common. We also see what Obama is doing to our nation and our constitution. ?This can no longer be credibly argued against. ?The facts are undeniable. The government here in the US is also beginning to tie "radical islam" with "right wing extremists" and are now hinting at a possible attack that will link the two. ?Glenn Beck, who is supposedly speaking for the people, is one of the main propagandists of this "new alliance." ?It is unquestionable that there are many like the man in DC today, who will jump at the opportunity to align themselves with evil. ?But to lump people like anyone who is a "9/11 Truther" in with this crowd is a horrible lie. ?Not all are like the man that went on a rampage today. ?But many people that are?(falsely)?being lumped into this category are the ones who will see through what is coming. ?This is why they will be demonized. We are also beginning to see a new movement to overthrow the Federal Reserve (a private bank). ?It is true that the Federal Reserve is one of our problems, but there is much more to it than that. False divisions are being manufactured here in America. The reason that I am bringing these few issues up, is because of my fear of what may come of it. ? As these things come to a boil, there is a possible scenario that could come from all of this. Often with nations, when things get really bad for the people, (especially when they've been pushed by either the far left or the far right to the tipping point) the people revolt and overthrow their current system. But the end result too often is not what the people intended. ?When thinking about the far left or far right powers in any nation it is important to understand that the commonly thought of left-right spectrum is not truly a straight line as we would imagine it, or have seen it. ?It should instead be visualized as a circle. ?This means that the far left and the far right are in reality the same; or at least the results for the people are the same. I just wanted to bring this up because it is quite possible that things may get to the point of revolution here in America very soon. ?If you begin to see mainstream media covering the legitimacy of the fed, and as you begin to see more and more footage of police brutality, please remember that people become irrational when things get bad, and those in power understand this. ?It is quite possible that a revolt against the government could have an end result that none intended, except for the the people behind the scenes who orchestrated it. Steven Collins has written much on Revelations and the overthrowing of "Babylon the Great" that leads to the new "Beast System." ?Take what you will from his writings and Revelations, but this is truly what has happened for generations, it just appears to be going global now. Basically what I am saying, is be very cautious of what you see and hear. ?The only things that are uncovered by the mainstream media are the things that they are allowed to uncover. Cody -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/c45bc138/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Wed Jun 10 21:33:18 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:33:18 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Israeli Robot Snake In-Reply-To: <173001c9ea31$677a1180$366e3480$@com> References: <173001c9ea31$677a1180$366e3480$@com> Message-ID: I agree! I think it's great!!!! My son sent this to me and I thought I'd share it with the List. Wish I'd seen it in action as you did. Thanks Patty, Pat From: ptyler at aac-usa.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Israeli Robot Snake Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:10:23 -0400 Hi Pat, I saw this thing move on TV and it was creepier than a real snake! But if it saves lives, it is good. Patty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:20 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Israeli Robot Snake Israeli military develops robot snake for battlefield, children's nightmares 06-09-2009 While this is by no means the first time we've seen a robotic snake prototype, it isn't every day that we find one so close to deployment. This self-propelling, two feet long robot can crawl along the ground, climb through debris, and even stand erect to give the operator a better view. The Israeli Defense Force is will use this thing for routine surveillance and reconnaissance, broadcasting video and sound to a monitor and control station. And if this is not enough? In that case, the prototype can be wired with explosives -- making it, according to the Jerusalem Post, a "suicide snake." Fun! And rather upsetting. No proposed price or timetable yet, but you can see the thing in action for yourself after the break. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/e249a14f/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Wed Jun 10 22:02:23 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:02:23 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" In-Reply-To: <74369.73863.qm@web82508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <74369.73863.qm@web82508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This is an amazing letter, Helen. Thanks for the forward. I passed it on. BTW, did you daughter arrive safely at your house? I believe you said she was traveling on Tues and Wednesday? I have been thinking of her and said the Wayfarer?s Prayer for her this morning. Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Helen Lusk Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:34 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Women in Green To: wfit2 at womeningreen.org Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:25:57 AM Subject: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" Instructions for unsubscribing can be found in the footer of this message. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- A very powerful letter from a very courageous lady. Dear Mr. President, You face difficult challenges in matters such as achieving peace in the Middle East and protecting America from the threat of radical Islam and terrorism. These are challenges that have vexed past presidents, going as far back as our second president, John Adams. I have no doubt you appreciate both the gravity of these challenges and the enormous obstacles that exist to solving them. I also have no doubt that you and your staff understood that, no matter what you said in your speech last Thursday in Cairo, there would be those who would take issue with you. That is always the case when attempting to solve problems that are as deep and emotionally-laden as these challenges are. I am assuming it is your sincere hope that the approach you have chosen to take, as evidenced by what I?m sure was a carefully crafted speech, will ultimately prove successful. However, it pains me to say this sir, but, while you said in your speech that you are a ?student of history,? it is abundantly clear that, in these matters, you do not know history and thus, as Santayana noted, you are doomed to repeat it. In doing so your efforts, however well-intentioned they may be, will not produce what you profess to hope they will produce. A wise man once said that if you start with the wrong assumptions, no matter how logical your reasoning is, you will end up with the wrong conclusion. With all due respect Mr. President, you are starting with certain assumptions that are unsupported by history and an objective study of the ideology of political Islam. You began in your speech by asserting that ?tensions? exist between the United States and Muslims around the world, which, of course, is correct. Unfortunately, you then proceeded, incorrectly, to lay virtually all the blame for these tensions at the feet of America and the West. You blamed western colonialism, the Cold War, and even modernity and globalism. A student of American history, who is not trying to reconstruct it to fit a modern politically correct narrative, would state that tensions between America and Muslims began with the unprovoked, four-decades long assault by the Muslim Barbary pirates against American shipping in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. I find it telling that you mentioned the Treaty of Tripoli in your speech but ignored the circumstances that led to it. That treaty was but one of numerous attempts by the United States to achieve peace with the jihadists of the Barbary Coast who were attacking our shipping and killing and enslaving our citizens and our soldiers ? and who by their own admission were doing so to fulfill the call to jihad. These jihadists were not acting to protest American foreign policy, which was decidedly isolationist, and there was no state of Israel to scapegoat. They were doing what countless Islamic jihadists have done throughout history ? acting upon the hundreds of passages in the Qur?an and the Hadith that call upon faithful Muslims to kill, conquer or subjugate the infidel. A student of world history would know that, for all the acknowledged evils of Western colonialism, these evils pale in comparison to the nearly 14 centuries of Islamic colonialism that began in Arabia under the leadership of Mohammed. The student of history would know that Islamic forces eradicated all Jewish and Christian presence from Arabia after Mohammed?s death, and then succeeded in conquering all of North Africa, most of the Middle East, much of Asia Minor, and significant portions of Europe and India ? eventually creating an empire larger than Rome?s was at its peak. The number of dead and enslaved during these many centuries of Islamic imperial conquest and colonialism have been estimated to total more than 300 million. What?s more, the wealth of many of the conquered nations and cultures was plundered by the Islamic conquerors, and millions of millions of non-Muslims who did survive were forced to pay onerous taxes, such as the ?jizya,? a humiliation tax to the Islamic caliphs. Indeed, in some areas Christians and Jews were made to wear a receipt for the jizya around their neck as a mark of their dishonor. These facts have not been invented by Christian or Jewish historical revisionists, but were chronicled by Muslim eyewitnesses throughout the past 14 centuries and are available to be researched by any person seeking an objective understanding of how Islam spread throughout the world. You say in your speech that we must squarely face the tensions that exist between America and the Muslim world. That is a laudable notion with which I agree, but by casting Islam as the historical victim and the West (and by implication, America) as the aggressor, you do not face these tensions squarely, but alleviate the Muslim world from coming to grips with the jihadist ideology embedded in its holy books and acted upon for 1,400 years. Even worse, you empower and embolden militant Islamists who regard your gestures as signs of weakness and capitulation. The issue is not that all Muslims are terrorists or radicals or extremists. We all know that the majority of Muslims are not. We also know that many peace-loving Muslims are victims of Islamist violence. The issue is this: what drives hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide to call for the death of Jews? What drives millions of Muslims to riot, destroy property, and take innocent lives in reaction to the Danish cartoons? What drives tens of thousands of Muslims to demand the execution of a British teacher whose only ?crime? was allowing her students to name their teddy bears ?Mohammed?? What drives countless Muslims worldwide to actively participate in, or fund, or provide nurture to, terrorist organizations? What drives Muslims in mosques in America to proclaim and distribute materials that call for hatred of and the destruction of infidels? What drives entire Islamic countries to prohibit the building of a Christian church or synagogue? To assume, as you apparently do, that what drives these actions is not an ideology embedded in the holy books of Islam, but rather other ?root causes,? most of which you lay at the feet of America and the West, is at best na?ve and at worst dangerous. Lastly, I must address your statement that ?Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance.? Unfortunately, the examples you gave are the exception rather than the rule. Historically speaking, I seriously doubt the Egyptian Copts, the Lebanese Maronites, the Christians in Bethlehem, the Assyrians, the Hindus, the Jews, and many others who have been persecuted by Islamic violence and supremacism, would agree with your assertion. For instance, Christians and Jews became ?Dhimmis,? a second class group under Islam. Dhimmis were forced to wear distinctive clothing; it was Baghdad?s Caliph Al-Mutawakkil, in the ninth century, who designated a yellow badge for Jews under Islam, which Hitler copied and duplicated in Nazi Germany nearly a thousand years later. I witnessed first-hand the ?tolerance? of Islam when Islamists ravaged my country of birth, Lebanon, in the 1970?s, leaving widespread death and destruction in their wake. I saw how they re-paid the tolerance that Lebanese Christians extended toward them. My experience is not an isolated one. When you make an unfounded assertion about the ?proud tradition? of tolerance in Islam, you do a great disservice to the hundreds of millions of non-Muslims who have been killed, maimed, enslaved, conquered, subjugated or displaced ? in the cause of Islamic jihad. Mr. President, those of us like me who are ringing the alarm in America about the threat of radical Islam would like nothing better than to peacefully co-exist with the Muslim world. Most Americans would like nothing better than to peacefully co-exist with the Muslim world. The obstacle to achieving this does not lie with us in America and the West. It lies with the hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide, including many of their spiritual leaders, who take seriously the repeated calls to jihad in the Qur?an and the Hadith. Who regard ?infidels? as inferior and worthy of conquering, subjugating and forcibly converting. Who support ?cultural jihad? as a means to subvert non-Muslim societies from within. Who take seriously the admonitions throughout the Qur?an and the Hadith to convert the world to Islam ? by force if necessary ? and bring it under the rule of Allah. Unless you are willing to courageously and honestly accept this, your aspirations for worldwide comity and peace in the Middle East are doomed to fail. Sincerely, Brigitte Gabriel ============================================= Women For Israel's Tomorrow (Women in Green) POB 7352, Jerusalem 91072, Israel Tel: 972-2-624-9887 Fax: 972-2-624-5380 mailto:wfit2 at womeningreen.org http://www.womeningreen.org To subscribe to the Women in Green list, please send a blank email message to: list4-subscribe at womeningreen.org Check your spam filter for confirmation to reply to To unsubscribe from the Women in Green list, please send a blank email message to: list4-unsubscribe at womeningreen.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090610/29431d8e/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jun 11 03:25:27 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:25:27 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] POLL. Message-ID: <4A30BF77.4030303@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/601dd0c4/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jun 11 04:02:29 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:02:29 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Sound the Shofar 'A Time to Wake Up' - Message-ID: <4A30C825.7020305@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/9e1caffe/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: iyar+5769+yankey's+bar+mitzvah+033.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 16696 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/9e1caffe/attachment.jpe From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jun 11 04:07:31 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:07:31 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Fw: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama"] Message-ID: <4A30C953.1070205@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/922e6a75/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Helen Lusk Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Size: 26085 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/922e6a75/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jun 11 04:09:26 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:09:26 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Fw: Things to Watch for] Message-ID: <4A30C9C6.9080305@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/158d10c7/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Cody Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Things to Watch for Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Size: 13542 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/158d10c7/attachment.eml From j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 11 04:18:21 2009 From: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net (Helen Lusk) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 02:18:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" In-Reply-To: References: <74369.73863.qm@web82508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <296558.47647.qm@web82504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thank you, Betty,?and all the others?for your prayers. Adrienne and the children did arrive safely last evening. She had a flat tire in NJ from a puncture and ended up in a BMW dealership. They were extremely? helpful?taking her under their wing and ordered a tire from a nearby Goodyear?dealer?for her Toyota van and only charged her for the tire. Hashem was?indeed merciful. Have a good day, Shalom, Helen ? ________________________________ From: Betty K Givin To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:02:23 PM Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Fw: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" This is an amazing letter, Helen.? Thanks for the forward.? I passed it on. ? BTW, did you daughter arrive safely at your house?? I believe you said she was traveling on Tues and Wednesday?? I have been thinking of her and said the Wayfarer?s Prayer for her this morning. ? Elisheva/Betty ? ? ________________________________ From:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Helen Lusk Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:34 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" ? ? ? ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Women in Green To: wfit2 at womeningreen.org Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:25:57 AM Subject: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" Instructions for unsubscribing can be found in the footer of this message. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- A very powerful letter from a very courageous lady. Dear Mr. President, You face difficult challenges in matters such as achieving peace in the Middle East and protecting America from the threat of radical Islam and terrorism. These are challenges that have vexed past presidents, going as far back as our second president, John Adams. I have no doubt you appreciate both the gravity of these challenges and the enormous obstacles that exist to solving them. I also have no doubt that you and your staff understood that, no matter what you said in your speech last Thursday in Cairo , there would be those who would take issue with you. That is always the case when attempting to solve problems that are as deep and emotionally-laden as these challenges are. I am assuming it is your sincere hope that the approach you have chosen to take, as evidenced by what I?m sure was a carefully crafted speech, will ultimately prove successful. However, it pains me to say this sir, but, while you said in your speech that you are a ?student of history,? it is abundantly clear that, in these matters, you do not know history and thus, as Santayana noted, you are doomed to repeat it. In doing so your efforts, however well-intentioned they may be, will not produce what you profess to hope they will produce. A wise man once said that if you start with the wrong assumptions, no matter how logical your reasoning is, you will end up with the wrong conclusion. With all due respect Mr. President, you are starting with certain assumptions that are unsupported by history and an objective study of the ideology of political Islam. You began in your speech by asserting that ?tensions? exist between the United States and Muslims around the world, which, of course, is correct. Unfortunately, you then proceeded, incorrectly, to lay virtually all the blame for these tensions at the feet of America and the West. You blamed western colonialism, the Cold War, and even modernity and globalism. A student of American history, who is not trying to reconstruct it to fit a modern politically correct narrative, would state that tensions between America and Muslims began with the unprovoked, four-decades long assault by the Muslim Barbary pirates against American shipping in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. I find it telling that you mentioned the Treaty of Tripoli in your speech but ignored the circumstances that led to it. That treaty was but one of numerous attempts by the United States to achieve peace with the jihadists of the Barbary Coast who were attacking our shipping and killing and enslaving our citizens and our soldiers ? and who by their own admission were doing so to fulfill the call to jihad. These jihadists were not acting to protest American foreign policy, which was decidedly isolationist, and there was no state of Israel to scapegoat. They were doing what countless Islamic jihadists have done throughout history ? acting upon the hundreds of passages in the Qur?an and the Hadith that call upon faithful Muslims to kill, conquer or subjugate the infidel. A student of world history would know that, for all the acknowledged evils of Western colonialism, these evils pale in comparison to the nearly 14 centuries of Islamic colonialism that began in Arabia under the leadership of Mohammed. The student of history would know that Islamic forces eradicated all Jewish and Christian presence from Arabia after Mohammed?s death, and then succeeded in conquering all of North Africa, most of the Middle East, much of Asia Minor, and significant portions of Europe and India ? eventually creating an empire larger than Rome?s was at its peak. The number of dead and enslaved during these many centuries of Islamic imperial conquest and colonialism have been estimated to total more than 300 million. What?s more, the wealth of many of the conquered nations and cultures was plundered by the Islamic conquerors, and millions of millions of non-Muslims who did survive were forced to pay onerous taxes, such as the ?jizya,? a humiliation tax to the Islamic caliphs. Indeed, in some areas Christians and Jews were made to wear a receipt for the jizya around their neck as a mark of their dishonor. These facts have not been invented by Christian or Jewish historical revisionists, but were chronicled by Muslim eyewitnesses throughout the past 14 centuries and are available to be researched by any person seeking an objective understanding of how Islam spread throughout the world. You say in your speech that we must squarely face the tensions that exist between America and the Muslim world. That is a laudable notion with which I agree, but by casting Islam as the historical victim and the West (and by implication, America) as the aggressor, you do not face these tensions squarely, but alleviate the Muslim world from coming to grips with the jihadist ideology embedded in its holy books and acted upon for 1,400 years. Even worse, you empower and embolden militant Islamists who regard your gestures as signs of weakness and capitulation. The issue is not that all Muslims are terrorists or radicals or extremists. We all know that the majority of Muslims are not. We also know that many peace-loving Muslims are victims of Islamist violence. The issue is this: what drives hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide to call for the death of Jews? What drives millions of Muslims to riot, destroy property, and take innocent lives in reaction to the Danish cartoons? What drives tens of thousands of Muslims to demand the execution of a British teacher whose only ?crime? was allowing her students to name their teddy bears ?Mohammed?? What drives countless Muslims worldwide to actively participate in, or fund, or provide nurture to, terrorist organizations? What drives Muslims in mosques in America to proclaim and distribute materials that call for hatred of and the destruction of infidels? What drives entire Islamic countries to prohibit the building of a Christian church or synagogue? To assume, as you apparently do, that what drives these actions is not an ideology embedded in the holy books of Islam, but rather other ?root causes,? most of which you lay at the feet of America and the West, is at best na?ve and at worst dangerous. Lastly, I must address your statement that ?Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance.? Unfortunately, the examples you gave are the exception rather than the rule. Historically speaking, I seriously doubt the Egyptian Copts, the Lebanese Maronites, the Christians in Bethlehem , the Assyrians, the Hindus, the Jews, and many others who have been persecuted by Islamic violence and supremacism, would agree with your assertion. For instance, Christians and Jews became ?Dhimmis,? a second class group under Islam. Dhimmis were forced to wear distinctive clothing; it was Baghdad ?s Caliph Al-Mutawakkil, in the ninth century, who designated a yellow badge for Jews under Islam, which Hitler copied and duplicated in Nazi Germany nearly a thousand years later. I witnessed first-hand the ?tolerance? of Islam when Islamists ravaged my country of birth, Lebanon , in the 1970?s, leaving widespread death and destruction in their wake. I saw how they re-paid the tolerance that Lebanese Christians extended toward them. My experience is not an isolated one. When you make an unfounded assertion about the ?proud tradition? of tolerance in Islam, you do a great disservice to the hundreds of millions of non-Muslims who have been killed, maimed, enslaved, conquered, subjugated or displaced ? in the cause of Islamic jihad. Mr. President, those of us like me who are ringing the alarm in America about the threat of radical Islam would like nothing better than to peacefully co-exist with the Muslim world. Most Americans would like nothing better than to peacefully co-exist with the Muslim world. The obstacle to achieving this does not lie with us in America and the West. It lies with the hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide, including many of their spiritual leaders, who take seriously the repeated calls to jihad in the Qur?an and the Hadith. Who regard ?infidels? as inferior and worthy of conquering, subjugating and forcibly converting. Who support ?cultural jihad? as a means to subvert non-Muslim societies from within. Who take seriously the admonitions throughout the Qur?an and the Hadith to convert the world to Islam ? by force if necessary ? and bring it under the rule of Allah. Unless you are willing to courageously and honestly accept this, your aspirations for worldwide comity and peace in the Middle East are doomed to fail. Sincerely, Brigitte Gabriel ============================================= Women For Israel's Tomorrow? (Women in Green) POB 7352, Jerusalem 91072 , Israel Tel: 972-2-624-9887 Fax: 972-2-624-5380 mailto:wfit2 at womeningreen.org http://www.womeningreen.org To subscribe to the Women in Green list, please send a blank email message to: list4-subscribe at womeningreen.org Check your spam filter for confirmation to reply to To unsubscribe from the Women in Green list, please send a blank email message to: list4-unsubscribe at womeningreen.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/75440674/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 06:40:46 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (Margie Creech) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 04:40:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Things to Watch for Message-ID: <660673.126.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Cody, I have been thinking the same thing.? ?? --- On Wed, 6/10/09, Cody wrote: From: Cody Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Things to Watch for To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 8:50 PM Just wanted to list a few things that have been on my mind. ? We all see what is happening here in the US and across the world. ?We can see the Anti-Semitism on the rise. ?Just today, a man went on a rampage in DC at the Holocaust Museum. ?Things like this are going to become more common. We also see what Obama is doing to our nation and our constitution. ?This can no longer be credibly argued against. ?The facts are undeniable. The government here in the US is also beginning to tie "radical islam" with "right wing extremists" and are now hinting at a possible attack that will link the two. ?Glenn Beck, who is supposedly speaking for the people, is one of the main propagandists of this "new alliance." ?It is unquestionable that there are many like the man in DC today, who will jump at the opportunity to align themselves with evil. ?But to lump people like anyone who is a "9/11 Truther" in with this crowd is a horrible lie. ?Not all are like the man that went on a rampage today. ?But many people that are?(falsely)?being lumped into this category are the ones who will see through what is coming. ?This is why they will be demonized. We are also beginning to see a new movement to overthrow the Federal Reserve (a private bank). ?It is true that the Federal Reserve is one of our problems, but there is much more to it than that. False divisions are being manufactured here in America. The reason that I am bringing these few issues up, is because of my fear of what may come of it. ? As these things come to a boil, there is a possible scenario that could come from all of this. Often with nations, when things get really bad for the people, (especially when they've been pushed by either the far left or the far right to the tipping point) the people revolt and overthrow their current system. But the end result too often is not what the people intended. ?When thinking about the far left or far right powers in any nation it is important to understand that the commonly thought of left-right spectrum is not truly a straight line as we would imagine it, or have seen it. ?It should instead be visualized as a circle. ?This means that the far left and the far right are in reality the same; or at least the results for the people are the same. I just wanted to bring this up because it is quite possible that things may get to the point of revolution here in America very soon. ?If you begin to see mainstream media covering the legitimacy of the fed, and as you begin to see more and more footage of police brutality, please remember that people become irrational when things get bad, and those in power understand this. ?It is quite possible that a revolt against the government could have an end result that none intended, except for the the people behind the scenes who orchestrated it. Steven Collins has written much on Revelations and the overthrowing of "Babylon the Great" that leads to the new "Beast System." ?Take what you will from his writings and Revelations, but this is truly what has happened for generations, it just appears to be going global now. Basically what I am saying, is be very cautious of what you see and hear. ?The only things that are uncovered by the mainstream media are the things that they are allowed to uncover. Cody -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/cad5c546/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 07:08:35 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:08:35 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Today's Quote; Beyond prayer... Message-ID: <855590370906110508y13c8d222i660da92ca44e1b76@mail.gmail.com> Prayer is SO important, but what else can we do when it seems the world has gone INSANE? How can you NOT feel helpless? I personally turn to HaRav Avraham Yitzhak Kook, THE Torah Giant of the Land of Israel (and the founder of the Merkaz Harav Yeshiva) during the years of the British military occupation, who said: *"-The purely righteous do not complain about evil, rather they add justice. -They do not complain about heresy, rather they add faith. -They do not complain about ignorance, rather they add wisdom. "* (Arpilei Tohar p. 39) The Shofar has sounded....NOW is the time for action! * Hanoch* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/fed601f0/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Thu Jun 11 07:18:18 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:18:18 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] URGENT: CNN vote for Israel - Please respond ASAP In-Reply-To: <2FB1B343F65245B48C910721AC5E806E@loyc30e02e1325> References: <2FB1B343F65245B48C910721AC5E806E@loyc30e02e1325> Message-ID: URGENT - CNN vote for Israel - Please respond immediately to this shocking vote and voice comments as you wish. Please login to this site vote and forward this important message to your colleagues. Apparently CNN is pushing a poll showing that 60% vs. 40% of Americans favour "Palestine" over Israel in the war in Gaza.. We must respond with numbers and be heard. We must stand together. Thousands of these emails are going out across the world right now. Be a part of supporting Israel. See also the hateful messages being left if you need motivation to become involved. Please pass this to all concerned. If you have not already done so, please click on the link and then simply click on the Israeli flag. http://www.israel-vs-palestine.com/gz/ PLEASE contact everyone you know to vote... It will take only an instant of your time! -- Internet Explorer 8 makes surfing easier. Get it now! Internet Explorer 8 makes surfing easier. Get it now! Yahoo! Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on the web and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/d66a68b9/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 07:23:35 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" Message-ID: <224049.14994.qm@web33302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> AMEN.? What a beautifully written letter and so true and to the point.?? Susan --- On Thu, 6/11/09, Helen Lusk wrote: From: Helen Lusk Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Fw: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 4:18 AM Thank you, Betty,?and all the others?for your prayers. Adrienne and the children did arrive safely last evening. She had a flat tire in NJ from a puncture and ended up in a BMW dealership. They were extremely? helpful?taking her under their wing and ordered a tire from a nearby Goodyear?dealer?for her Toyota van and only charged her for the tire. Hashem was?indeed merciful. ? Have a good day, ? Shalom, Helen ? From: Betty K Givin To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:02:23 PM Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Fw: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" This is an amazing letter, Helen.? Thanks for the forward.? I passed it on. ? BTW, did you daughter arrive safely at your house?? I believe you said she was traveling on Tues and Wednesday?? I have been thinking of her and said the Wayfarer?s Prayer for her this morning. ? Elisheva/Betty ? ? From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Helen Lusk Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:34 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" ? ? ? ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Women in Green To: wfit2 at womeningreen.org Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:25:57 AM Subject: Brigitte Gabriel: "An Open Letter to President Obama" Instructions for unsubscribing can be found in the footer of this message. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- A very powerful letter from a very courageous lady. Dear Mr. President, You face difficult challenges in matters such as achieving peace in the Middle East and protecting America from the threat of radical Islam and terrorism. These are challenges that have vexed past presidents, going as far back as our second president, John Adams. I have no doubt you appreciate both the gravity of these challenges and the enormous obstacles that exist to solving them. I also have no doubt that you and your staff understood that, no matter what you said in your speech last Thursday in Cairo , there would be those who would take issue with you. That is always the case when attempting to solve problems that are as deep and emotionally-laden as these challenges are. I am assuming it is your sincere hope that the approach you have chosen to take, as evidenced by what I?m sure was a carefully crafted speech, will ultimately prove successful. However, it pains me to say this sir, but, while you said in your speech that you are a ?student of history,? it is abundantly clear that, in these matters, you do not know history and thus, as Santayana noted, you are doomed to repeat it. In doing so your efforts, however well-intentioned they may be, will not produce what you profess to hope they will produce. A wise man once said that if you start with the wrong assumptions, no matter how logical your reasoning is, you will end up with the wrong conclusion. With all due respect Mr. President, you are starting with certain assumptions that are unsupported by history and an objective study of the ideology of political Islam. You began in your speech by asserting that ?tensions? exist between the United States and Muslims around the world, which, of course, is correct. Unfortunately, you then proceeded, incorrectly, to lay virtually all the blame for these tensions at the feet of America and the West. You blamed western colonialism, the Cold War, and even modernity and globalism. A student of American history, who is not trying to reconstruct it to fit a modern politically correct narrative, would state that tensions between America and Muslims began with the unprovoked, four-decades long assault by the Muslim Barbary pirates against American shipping in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. I find it telling that you mentioned the Treaty of Tripoli in your speech but ignored the circumstances that led to it. That treaty was but one of numerous attempts by the United States to achieve peace with the jihadists of the Barbary Coast who were attacking our shipping and killing and enslaving our citizens and our soldiers ? and who by their own admission were doing so to fulfill the call to jihad. These jihadists were not acting to protest American foreign policy, which was decidedly isolationist, and there was no state of Israel to scapegoat. They were doing what countless Islamic jihadists have done throughout history ? acting upon the hundreds of passages in the Qur?an and the Hadith that call upon faithful Muslims to kill, conquer or subjugate the infidel. A student of world history would know that, for all the acknowledged evils of Western colonialism, these evils pale in comparison to the nearly 14 centuries of Islamic colonialism that began in Arabia under the leadership of Mohammed. The student of history would know that Islamic forces eradicated all Jewish and Christian presence from Arabia after Mohammed?s death, and then succeeded in conquering all of North Africa, most of the Middle East, much of Asia Minor, and significant portions of Europe and India ? eventually creating an empire larger than Rome?s was at its peak. The number of dead and enslaved during these many centuries of Islamic imperial conquest and colonialism have been estimated to total more than 300 million. What?s more, the wealth of many of the conquered nations and cultures was plundered by the Islamic conquerors, and millions of millions of non-Muslims who did survive were forced to pay onerous taxes, such as the ?jizya,? a humiliation tax to the Islamic caliphs. Indeed, in some areas Christians and Jews were made to wear a receipt for the jizya around their neck as a mark of their dishonor. These facts have not been invented by Christian or Jewish historical revisionists, but were chronicled by Muslim eyewitnesses throughout the past 14 centuries and are available to be researched by any person seeking an objective understanding of how Islam spread throughout the world. You say in your speech that we must squarely face the tensions that exist between America and the Muslim world. That is a laudable notion with which I agree, but by casting Islam as the historical victim and the West (and by implication, America) as the aggressor, you do not face these tensions squarely, but alleviate the Muslim world from coming to grips with the jihadist ideology embedded in its holy books and acted upon for 1,400 years. Even worse, you empower and embolden militant Islamists who regard your gestures as signs of weakness and capitulation. The issue is not that all Muslims are terrorists or radicals or extremists. We all know that the majority of Muslims are not. We also know that many peace-loving Muslims are victims of Islamist violence. The issue is this: what drives hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide to call for the death of Jews? What drives millions of Muslims to riot, destroy property, and take innocent lives in reaction to the Danish cartoons? What drives tens of thousands of Muslims to demand the execution of a British teacher whose only ?crime? was allowing her students to name their teddy bears ?Mohammed?? What drives countless Muslims worldwide to actively participate in, or fund, or provide nurture to, terrorist organizations? What drives Muslims in mosques in America to proclaim and distribute materials that call for hatred of and the destruction of infidels? What drives entire Islamic countries to prohibit the building of a Christian church or synagogue? To assume, as you apparently do, that what drives these actions is not an ideology embedded in the holy books of Islam, but rather other ?root causes,? most of which you lay at the feet of America and the West, is at best na?ve and at worst dangerous. Lastly, I must address your statement that ?Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance.? Unfortunately, the examples you gave are the exception rather than the rule. Historically speaking, I seriously doubt the Egyptian Copts, the Lebanese Maronites, the Christians in Bethlehem , the Assyrians, the Hindus, the Jews, and many others who have been persecuted by Islamic violence and supremacism, would agree with your assertion. For instance, Christians and Jews became ?Dhimmis,? a second class group under Islam. Dhimmis were forced to wear distinctive clothing; it was Baghdad ?s Caliph Al-Mutawakkil, in the ninth century, who designated a yellow badge for Jews under Islam, which Hitler copied and duplicated in Nazi Germany nearly a thousand years later. I witnessed first-hand the ?tolerance? of Islam when Islamists ravaged my country of birth, Lebanon , in the 1970?s, leaving widespread death and destruction in their wake. I saw how they re-paid the tolerance that Lebanese Christians extended toward them. My experience is not an isolated one. When you make an unfounded assertion about the ?proud tradition? of tolerance in Islam, you do a great disservice to the hundreds of millions of non-Muslims who have been killed, maimed, enslaved, conquered, subjugated or displaced ? in the cause of Islamic jihad. Mr. President, those of us like me who are ringing the alarm in America about the threat of radical Islam would like nothing better than to peacefully co-exist with the Muslim world. Most Americans would like nothing better than to peacefully co-exist with the Muslim world. The obstacle to achieving this does not lie with us in America and the West. It lies with the hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide, including many of their spiritual leaders, who take seriously the repeated calls to jihad in the Qur?an and the Hadith. Who regard ?infidels? as inferior and worthy of conquering, subjugating and forcibly converting. Who support ?cultural jihad? as a means to subvert non-Muslim societies from within. Who take seriously the admonitions throughout the Qur?an and the Hadith to convert the world to Islam ? by force if necessary ? and bring it under the rule of Allah. Unless you are willing to courageously and honestly accept this, your aspirations for worldwide comity and peace in the Middle East are doomed to fail. Sincerely, Brigitte Gabriel ============================================= Women For Israel's Tomorrow? (Women in Green) POB 7352, Jerusalem 91072 , Israel Tel: 972-2-624-9887 Fax: 972-2-624-5380 mailto:wfit2 at womeningreen.org http://www.womeningreen.org To subscribe to the Women in Green list, please send a blank email message to: list4-subscribe at womeningreen.org Check your spam filter for confirmation to reply to To unsubscribe from the Women in Green list, please send a blank email message to: list4-unsubscribe at womeningreen.org -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/d31e6f00/attachment.html From zitro4 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 07:37:27 2009 From: zitro4 at yahoo.com (G. Ortiz) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] URGENT: CNN vote for Israel - Please respond ASAP Message-ID: <314768.97708.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> BTW - You can vote more than once, but have to wait at least an hour before voting again. --- On Thu, 6/11/09, patricia robbins wrote: From: patricia robbins Subject: [Dialogue] URGENT: CNN vote for Israel - Please respond ASAP To: "dialogue at rootsoffaith.org" Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 8:18 AM #yiv1648998411 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv1648998411 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} ? URGENT - CNN vote for Israel - Please respond immediately to this shocking vote and voice comments as you wish. Please login to this site vote and forward this important message to your colleagues. Apparently CNN is pushing a poll showing that 60% vs. 40% of Americans favour "Palestine" over Israel in the war in Gaza..?? We must respond with numbers and be heard.? We must stand together. Thousands of these emails are going out across the world right now. Be a part of supporting Israel. See also the hateful messages being left if you need motivation to become involved.?? Please pass this to all concerned. If you have not already done so,?please click on the link and then simply click on the Israeli flag. http://www.israel-vs-palestine.com/gz/ PLEASE contact?everyone you know to vote...? It will take only?an instant of your time! ? ? -- Internet Explorer 8 makes surfing easier. Get it now! Internet Explorer 8 makes surfing easier. Get it now! Yahoo! Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on the web and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now! -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/441eaa51/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 07:43:16 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:43:16 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "Don't interfere with the Divine Process, Mr. President" Message-ID: <855590370906110543y29836b4aic6964bfdedb56639@mail.gmail.com> * Don?t interfere with the Divine Process, Mr. President* by Rabbi Eliezer Waldman Rosh Yeshiva ? Yeshivat Nir Kiryat Arba June 10, 2009 Just a few weeks ago we celebrated the anniversary of the liberation of Jerusalem and all of Judea and Samaria in the Six-Day War of 1967. With the help of the God of Israel we returned to the cradle of independent Jewish life in our homeland - to the ancient towns and cities: Jerusalem; Hebron; Bethlehem; Jericho; Beit El; and Shiloh. We returned to the hills of Judea and Samaria - to the geographical heights which helped to defend Jewish life in the valleys. We also returned to the spiritual heights of prophecy and Divine morals which permeated the national life of the Jewish nation in Israel. We understood then that the gates of our homeland were opened, calling upon us to renew Jewish life in these areas. What a Divine privilege that our generation was enabled to implement and begin to fulfill our destiny. Thank God that in the last 42 years we were witness to the beginning of the fulfillment of a dream. The barren hills of Judea and Samaria have seen the building of homes; the paving of roads; the establishment of institutions of Jewish learning and culture; the joy of young Jewish families bearing children. . . all this projecting the light of the process of the redemption of Israel. "I will resettle the cities and rebuild the ruins and the desolate land shall be tilled. Whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by, They will say that the land that was desolate will become like a Garden of Eden. And the wasted cities have been fortified and inhabited" (Ezekiel 36). We can see this with our own eyes and feel blessed to be part of this Divine Process. Does President Obama really mean to interfere with this Divine Process? The God of Israel is recreating Jewish life by replanting our roots in the natural soil of our homeland. Does he really want to "freeze" the life of a redeemed people in its land? Does he fail to understand the immorality of such an attempt? Does he think it possible to go against the Living God of Israel and the eternal rights of the Jewish people? In his address in Cairo he attempted to explain the connection between the establishment of Israel and the Holocaust, suggesting that the tragic suffering brought upon the Jews obligated the world to give them an independent state. I would ask Mr. Obama the following: Do you seek to lend legitimacy to the Arab denial of our roots in the Land of Israel? Do you accept the Arab view that Israel is a foreign intruder in the Arab world? How can you close your eyes to biblical and historical reality? Do you not know that the scriptures have detailed descriptions of hundreds of years of the Children of Israel living an independent life in the holy land with Jerusalem as their capital and the holy Temple and the Temple Mount serving as their spiritual center? No other nation in history ever held sovereignty here. Our legal and historical rights were recognized by the international community, by the Balfour Declaration of 1917, and by the League of Nations in its proclamation in 1922 calling for the reconstitution of a Jewish homeland in the Land of Israel. All this was before the Holocaust. True, we have a disagreement with the Arabs and some nations with regards to Israeli sovereignty in Judea and Samaria. Our claim to sovereignty is based on the previously mentioned historical, legal and biblical facts. Even if you support the claim of Arab rights to sovereignty in Judea and Samaria, how can you demand the freezing of Jewish life in these areas? How can you justify a double-standard morality that would have Arabs living under Israeli sovereignty with rights of citizenship and representation in the Knesset while denying Jews the most basic right to live in Judea and Samaria? President Obama is the leader of a great country - the champion of human rights and democracy. He proudly carries the American tradition of equal rights for all peoples, as the founding fathers of the United States so eloquently expressed: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Is Mr. Obama hinting or suggesting that tens of thousands of Jewish families, men women and children, be denied these basic rights? By uprooting them from their homes in Judea and Samaria under any future political arrangement he would be denying them their most basic human rights. How can he suggest "freezing" Jewish life? Is this not a form of racism? I cannot believe that such a position can even be considered by an American president, let alone accepted by the Congress or the people of the United States. It certainly is unacceptable to us. We - who have been living in Hebron for more than forty years and have brought up third- and fourth-generation offspring who have created blossoming Jewish communities throughout Judea and Samaria - refuse to be "frozen" and uprooted. I'd like to close by asking American Jews how they can sit by quietly while their president is taking such an immoral and unjust position toward Israel. Why do we not hear your voices sounding loudly? Where are your protests against a clearly racist policy aimed only against the Jews of Israel and negating the basics of American traditional values? We need you to participate with us in securing the State of Israel and the lives and basic rights of the Jewish people. By expressing and demonstrating a proud Jewish and human position you will certainly bring a blessing to the people of Israel and to yourselves, and restore the moral principles of the people of the United States. http://www.thejewishpress.com/pageroute.do/39640 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/a9b9c010/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 07:47:37 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] FW: Noah today Message-ID: <983894.10772.qm@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just for fun --- On Thu, 6/11/09, Randy Mcpherson wrote: From: Randy Mcpherson Subject: FW: Noah today To: "susan strickland" Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 7:34 AM #yiv1927735697 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv1927735697 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} ? From: mike at mcphersonconstruction.com To: dog79705 at hotmail.com Subject: Fw: Noah today Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:06:00 -0500 #yiv1927735697 .ExternalClass .EC_shape {} #yiv1927735697 .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, #yiv1927735697 .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, #yiv1927735697 .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} #yiv1927735697 .ExternalClass a:link, #yiv1927735697 .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv1927735697 .ExternalClass a:visited, #yiv1927735697 .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv1927735697 .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle19 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} _filtered #yiv1927735697 {} #yiv1927735697 .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 {} ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Laura McFaddin To: mike at mcphersonconstruction.com Cc: adamflores at suddenlink.net ; Lori Winter ; Bill Musar ; Becky Vines ; Lisa Hagee Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:09 AM Subject: FW: Noah today ? ? Laura McFaddin Vice President/Closer 206 N. Main St. Midland, TX?? 79701 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/3e4a9acf/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1223 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/3e4a9acf/attachment.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1223 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/3e4a9acf/attachment-0001.gif From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Thu Jun 11 07:48:46 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:48:46 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] URGENT: CNN vote for Israel - Please respond ASAP In-Reply-To: <314768.97708.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <314768.97708.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: THANK YOU, GISELA!!!! Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:37:27 -0700 From: zitro4 at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Dialogue] URGENT: CNN vote for Israel - Please respond ASAP To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org BTW - You can vote more than once, but have to wait at least an hour before voting again. --- On Thu, 6/11/09, patricia robbins wrote: From: patricia robbins Subject: [Dialogue] URGENT: CNN vote for Israel - Please respond ASAP To: "dialogue at rootsoffaith.org" Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 8:18 AM URGENT - CNN vote for Israel - Please respond immediately to this shocking vote and voice comments as you wish. Please login to this site vote and forward this important message to your colleagues. Apparently CNN is pushing a poll showing that 60% vs. 40% of Americans favour "Palestine" over Israel in the war in Gaza.. We must respond with numbers and be heard. We must stand together. Thousands of these emails are going out across the world right now. Be a part of supporting Israel. See also the hateful messages being left if you need motivation to become involved. Please pass this to all concerned. If you have not already done so, please click on the link and then simply click on the Israeli flag. http://www.israel-vs-palestine.com/gz/ PLEASE contact everyone you know to vote... It will take only an instant of your time! -- Internet Explorer 8 makes surfing easier. Get it now! Internet Explorer 8 makes surfing easier. Get it now! Yahoo! Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on the web and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now! -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/85bfa9f2/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Thu Jun 11 08:25:55 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:25:55 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] POLL. In-Reply-To: <4A30BF77.4030303@westnet.com.au> References: <4A30BF77.4030303@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Am just now reading your email on the CNN poll, Joe. I sent one to the List this morning too, having not yet read yours. This is ourtrageous! Gisela wrote and said we can vote every hour, so I wil try to do so several more times before the poll closes. The vote at 9:21 EST is Israel 48.8 and Philestines 51.2 Thanks, Joe! Avigail Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:25:27 +1000 From: jid at westnet.com.au To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] POLL. Shalom Chaverim, this was sent to me by a mate in Israel. Currently in Australia the vote is 48.8% ISRAELI and 51.2% PALESTINIAN. Someone may let me know what the breakup is in their respective countries. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. Hey Guys! Please send this to everyone you know... it is VERY Important.... Apparently CNN is pushing a poll to show that 60% vs. 40% of Americans favor " Palestine " over Israel in the war in Gaza . We must respond with numbers and be heard. We must stand together! Thousands of these emails are going out across the world right now. Be a part of supporting Israel . See, also, the hateful messages being left if you need motivation to become involved. Please pass this to all concerned. If you have not already done so, please click on the link and then simply click on the Israeli flag. Hit Log In if needed. http://www.israel-vs-palestine.com/gz/ PLEASE contact everyone you know to vote... It will take only an instant of your time! Thank you in advance for your vote and support. Best Regards, Ravit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/fdb287e0/attachment.html From oneillcody at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 11:12:39 2009 From: oneillcody at yahoo.com (oneillcody at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Re: Fw: Things to Watch for Message-ID: <294667.2087.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks Joe and Margie. Here is another article worth reading. http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=100732 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/908e0fa9/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 11:53:56 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:53:56 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Jon Voight, telling it like it is... Message-ID: <855590370906110953n692b8f4ck6422ffc5bcf254e9@mail.gmail.com> Jon Voight is really an incredible man, listen to what he said: *Hanoch* * * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s75P8xNMZEE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/9c921752/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Thu Jun 11 12:59:22 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:59:22 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] URGENT: CNN vote for Israel - Please respond ASAP In-Reply-To: <314768.97708.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <314768.97708.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Got it Gisela, and passed it on.thanks Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of G. Ortiz Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 7:37 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] URGENT: CNN vote for Israel - Please respond ASAP BTW - You can vote more than once, but have to wait at least an hour before voting again. --- On Thu, 6/11/09, patricia robbins wrote: From: patricia robbins Subject: [Dialogue] URGENT: CNN vote for Israel - Please respond ASAP To: "dialogue at rootsoffaith.org" Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 8:18 AM URGENT - CNN vote for Israel - Please respond immediately to this shocking vote and voice comments as you wish. Please login to this site vote and forward this important message to your colleagues. Apparently CNN is pushing a poll showing that 60% vs. 40% of Americans favour "Palestine" over Israel in the war in Gaza.. We must respond with numbers and be heard. We must stand together. Thousands of these emails are going out across the world right now. Be a part of supporting Israel. See also the hateful messages being left if you need motivation to become involved. Please pass this to all concerned. If you have not already done so, please click on the link and then simply click on the Israeli flag. http://www.israel-vs-palestine.com/gz/ PLEASE contact everyone you know to vote... It will take only an instant of your time! -- _____ Internet Explorer 8 makes surfing easier. Get it now! _____ Internet Explorer 8 makes surfing easier. Get it now! _____ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on the web and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now! -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/a5562783/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Thu Jun 11 13:24:12 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:24:12 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Headed for Mt Zion Message-ID: I am in the Newark airport waiting for the flight to Tel Aviv. Some of our dig team is already gathering, though we are arriving on various flights from all over the country and several foreign countries. Just wanted to tell everyone hello. Keep our Mt Zion dig in mind. I will be sending weekly reports, plus any breaking news! Take care, James Tabor From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 15:44:43 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:44:43 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "Faith in G-d Key to Leadership in Israel" Message-ID: <855590370906111344x737a4127p1feaf576005e2db8@mail.gmail.com> >From one of Israel's TRUE leaders, Moshe Feiglin - *Hanoch* *Faith in G-d Key to Leadership in Israel* "*And we were in our eyes as grasshoppers, and so we were in their eyes*." (From this week's Torah portion, *Shlach Lecha*, Numbers 13:33) If you do not know that G-d is running the world, the only way to evaluate reality is through human eyes. That is called being "realistic" and "pragmatic." The spies in this week's Torah portion were not lying. The information that they reported was completely accurate. The only problem was that they observed reality without taking faith in G-d into account. When Israel's leader views reality without the key factor of faith in G-d, it makes him and his country look awfully small in the eyes of the other nations. And then, the president of the United States, who grovels before every small dictator and terrorist, sees him and his country as nothing more than - grasshoppers. And then he shows you the soles of his shoes. President Obama as photographed this week during his phone conversation with Netanyahu. It is no coincidence that the White House chose to publicize this photograph. "*And all the nations of the world will see that the Name of G-d is upon you and they will fear you*." (Deuteronomy 28:10) When we will have leadership that fears G-d, we will restore our lost honor and power of deterrence. In the meantime, the honor is afforded to other leaders who call out in the names of their gods. Shabbat Shalom, *Moshe Feiglin * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/770d2d36/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 16:10:53 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:10:53 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "Obama has chosen to pick a fight with Israel. Why?" Message-ID: <855590370906111410i5cb0ba3cxb62a7f1008f0c65f@mail.gmail.com> The article below was sent to me by a friend; it makes a number of very valid points. However, I think the single most, inarguable element is the part I have highlighted in *RED **- *check it out. *Hanoch* ** *Subject: OBAMA HAS CHOSEN TO PICK A FIGHT WITH ISRAEL. WHY? *June 10, 2009 *Obama and the Settlements* By Richard Baehr Why is Barack Obama spending so much time focusing on Israeli settlements in the West Bank? Two thoughtful explanations of the widening dispute on the settlements issue have been developed by Dore Gold and George Friedman. What is clear is that Obama has chosen to pick a fight with Israel. Friedman argues Obama has chosen his fight carefully, on an issue on which the Jewish community both in Israel and the US is split, and therefore resistance will be weaker. The question of course is why? Is it because Obama believes he will now get more support in the Muslim world for US actions in Iraq and Afghanistan if he appears to be cutting Israel loose? How likely is this? What kind of support in each country does Obama expect to get if only Israel froze settlement growth? Could it be that the policy people around Obama actually believe a resolution of the Israeli Palestinian conflict is within reach if only settlement activity were totally frozen? I have trouble believing this level of na?t?xists in the Administration, given the number of people who have been involved in failed peace processing efforts over the last few decades. I think the real key to understanding the policy shift is the linkage the Administration has laid out between Israeli Palestinian negotiations (which the Administration is arguing depends almost exclusively on an Israeli halt to settlement activity) and the effort to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power. It is my belief that the Obama team has thrown in the towel on stopping Iran from getting nuclear weapons. Obama will never use military force for this, and the Administration's new engagement approach seems to have been developed as if we had all the time in the world to reach an agreement with Iran. So in order to provide an excuse for the Administration's failure to stop Iran, they will make Israel the reason for this happening-- Israel refused to stop settlement activity. The Palestinians were then unable to reach a deal with Israel. And US allies in the Arab world world, and in Europe as well as Russia and China, were then unwilling to pressure Iran with stepped up sanctions to stop its nuclear program. So it is all Israel's fault. The Obama team can then hope for the Israelis to be disgusted enough with the poor state of Israel's relations with the US and Iran's new nuclear reality that they throw Netanyahu out of office. Then a more compliant Israeli prime minister can take over, and give away the West Bank to the PA for nothing. *What is particularly disgusting is that two court Jews in the administration -- Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod -- appear to be the primary forces encouraging Obama to stick it to Israel . They have calculated that American Jews are so blindly liberal, and in rapture to the almighty Obama that Obama can push Israel around without doing damage to his standing in the Jewish community. * Sadly they may be right in their assessment. Where are the major Jewish organizations to push back? Where are the Jewish Democrats in the Senate and House challenging a President of their own party when he sells out Israel? I guess that would require a spine. It is also sad to see Hillary Clinton, who many of us thought would be much better on US Israel relations than Obama during the campaign last year, turning into the loyal warrior for Obama on this initiative, knifing Israel at every opportunity. She has gone back to the future, and we can see her again hugging and kissing Suha Arafat after the Palestinian first lady trashed Israel in a speech Clinton attended years back. It was easy for her to play the ber Zionist as a Senator in New York, and in her need to corral Jewish campaign cash for her failed Presidential run. Her loyalty to the US Israel relationship is as thin now as it was in the early 90s. There is a fourth possibility -- that Obama simply wants to be loved by the Muslim masses around the globe. He has determined that separating the US from its long historic close friendship with Israel is a small price to pay to achieve this. It is frightening to consider that the current policy shift might be occurring for narcissistic reasons and not strategic ones. Frank Gaffney suggests that there may be something to this argument, in that Obama is transforming himself into America's first Muslim President, much as Bill Clinton was hailed as the first black one. Regrettably for Israel, none of this is a laughing matter. Richard Baehr is cheif political correspondent of American Thinker. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090611/212d70ed/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jun 11 23:30:35 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:30:35 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Message-ID: <4A31D9EB.4090906@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/37e0e94b/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 12 01:00:01 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 06:00:01 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer... In-Reply-To: <855590370906091217w7e352426pcfa49a7bb8f67fa0@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370906080448l2f550170x27054642db2bdace@mail.gmail.com><060920090729.1352.4A2E0F5F0003F4CD0000054822216128369B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <855590370906091217w7e352426pcfa49a7bb8f67fa0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <061220090600.14226.4A31EEE000098C830000379222218675169B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Soon man, very soon. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Hey John - Just wait until we get to go up to the Har HaBayit (Temple Mount) together...THEN you'll really feel what it means to be in the presence of HaShem.... Hanoch On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 3:29 AM, wrote: I don't know Hanoch. I guess I'm still in the camp of simply and plainly stating our case before him and then being quiet so that we can hear the answer. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Boker tov L'Kulam, I just saw this note, which I think helps connect our prayers with the appropriate visualization; making it more meaningful, and hopefully, even more effective then they could have been! It's from the Mystical Paths website... Hanoch '??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??" ????? ?"?,?" (91 days..) "Let us go up an inherit the Land of Israel, for we are surely able" Numbers 13:30 Prayer by Reb Gutman Locks at Mystical Paths Prayer has to become genuine, alive. One very small but meaningful gesture is, when saying the words, ?You open Your hand and satisfy the desire of every living thing,?[i] to turn your palms upward as if you are trying to receive what it is He is giving. Why are you facing your palms upward? Because you truly believe that G-d?s hand is open and He is trying to give you something. And you are opening your hand heavenward because you want to receive His gifts. This shows that you really believe the words that you are saying. There are many religious Jews who can tell you where every prayer is written and many can even repeat them by heart, but there are very few who can tell you what they actually mean. Often people ask what can be done to improve their concentration during prayer. They complain that their minds keep wandering off the subject onto other totally unrelated things. Really, there is only one thing that you can do when this happens. As soon as you realize that you are off the subject, gently return. Again and again, quietly return to what you want to be concentrating on. This is like a weightlifter who continually picks up his weights, again and again. Each time you return to the subject you get a little stronger. There is another easy thing you can do that will help make your prayers more interesting, and actually more effective. Whatever you pray for, briefly imagine it coming into being. This means that when you are davening the Amidah (the standing, silent prayers), as you are finishing one of the 19 established prayers, such as, ?Blessed are You . . . Who rebuilds Jerusalem,? or ??Who heals the sick,? briefly picture what you are praying for to happen. In these two cases you could picture Jerusalem, including the Third Temple, made entirely out of brightly shining gold, floating down from Heaven settling over and filling the present-day Jerusalem. Or, when praying for the sick, picture the sick jumping out of their wheelchairs, throwing away their crutches, and dancing down the street. ?Think good and it will be good.? _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/10c1dbf2/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 12 01:30:16 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 06:30:16 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.]] In-Reply-To: <4A2E4A54.2020401@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <061220090630.1895.4A31F5F800040E570000076722218675169B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Hey Joe, No problem man, I sent you a couple of emails that you didn't respond to, but I know we are all real busy. I was just pickin' at ya (that's a southern term). I'm truly sorry to hear about your dog, I know how that feels. I'm also well aware of the aftermath of storms and the effect they have on us. My prayers have been with y'all. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, it's been a busy week for me as well (though not as traumatic). I saw your email this evening beginning the prayer Shabbat, thanks for your dedication Joe. Shabbat Shalom v'Brachot. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shalom Eliron, did I miss something? Why would I be mad at you , achi ? I have no grounds whatsoever. In fact you and Carin are very dear to me. I did request leave from the dialogue list a couple of weeks ago due to work commitments after we had severe storms here in Australia. The damage was incredible. Being an Architect, I hope you understand the enormity of my duties towards rectification and remedial work, not only to property but shattered human lives. Things are only just starting to go back to normal. Last Erev Shabbat, my great companion, Vanya the wonder dog, finally succumbed to old age and passed away at the age of 14. Last Shabbat was the first in 13 years without my old mate. Heidi and I are still devastated at the loss but gradually coming to terms with it. With regards to Hannah's prayer request this coming Shabbat - USA time , we will get things started here in the land down under a day in advance and you can put the icing on the cake as a grand finale. It is such a worthy cause to pray for the children and babes, I could not think of a better request to our beloved Abba in Shamayim. He sees us all as His children. The spirit of Eliyahu is indeed in full swing as he is restoring us to the faith of the Avot, but none greater than our Creator and Heavenly Father. Baruch HaShem. Let us get this prayer chain happening. In full support. A special hug and kiss to Carin. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/b98ebca6/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 12 01:33:48 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 06:33:48 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Interesting Information. In-Reply-To: References: <060220091608.20097.4A254E92000088C100004E8122193100029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net><389B90816CCF4F28B7848DB0D5D41EF6@MarvinLT><060320090500.21809.4A2603590008E74A0000553122230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <061220090633.3569.4A31F6CB000A8F2000000DF122218675169B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> True Marvin, but I don't believe in pre-destination. We all have made our choices and so did the President. We all get to live with the consequences. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "mhyde" : -------------- I agree John, Although form before the election, my opinion of Obama is that he is a dark horse of the apocalyptic style in Revelation, I still understand Hashem is pulling his strings, just like Pharaoh in Egypt. Even if we are to repeat history I think we should be aware of what is going on. Does that help us prepare? I think so, even if the preparation is only in our mental state. I have a couple of Christian Minister brothers that are so funny, yet so sad to watch, as they live their life?s in such a dualistic way they have very little touch with the reality of the world around them. By the way John, got the CD in the mail yesterday. Thanks, marvin From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:00 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Interesting Information. I don't know Marvin. But when I turn on the news these days I find myself continually amazed by the direction we are taking and it's parallels with what I know of the fall of the Weimar Republic. But I am certain that Mr.Obama is not the sole player in all of this. I just think that we need to raise our vigilance with regard to the actions of our government as well as strengthen our skepticism of it's supposed benevolence or we may find ourselves repeating history. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "mhyde" : -------------- Hey John, Do you think there is correlation or similarity between hitler and volkswagon and Obama and GMC (government motors corporation).? From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:09 PM To: Dialogue Subject: [Dialogue] Interesting Information. I've never been one for conspiracy theories but I have to say that sometimes trusting in men's motives and not paying attention to what is going on around us can take us by surprise. Here are a couple of interesting things I've learned recently; Did y'all know that one of the first things Hitler did when he came to power was found the Volkswagon car company with Ferdinand Porshe and the name Volkswagon itself was intended to endear Hitler to the German public as a provider for the people (Peoples Automobile). Also, I don't know how many of you own weapons but I own a couple of handguns. I just recently found out that ammunition for them is getting very, very scarce. In a discussion with a friend of mine who is a reliable source of info on this subject I learned the reason for this. I didn't know this but it seems that the primary source of brass used to make cartridges is the federal government. Ammunition manufacturers are having a difficult time obtaining brass these days because most of it is being sold to China. Now I'm not saying that this has actually been planned out this way but it seems to me that if those who want to restrict handgun ownership in this country can't find a way through the Constitution to do so, this would be a very effective alernative. Guns aren't much use without ammunition. I think it may behoove us to start moving around the furniture and peering into the dark corners to see what kind of critters are taking up residence in our house, before they chew away the foundation. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/3ad5ce7a/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 12 02:03:30 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 07:03:30 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.]] In-Reply-To: <855590370906091536w5062d721kd17959c7a60aeb17@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A2E4A54.2020401@westnet.com.au> <855590370906091536w5062d721kd17959c7a60aeb17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <061220090703.19180.4A31FDC10008185F00004AEC22218675169B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Thanks Hanoch, I knew you were never mad at me ;-{)} You are right, the world, with HaShem's help and our faith, will be a different place for our children. Pray well Achi. Shabbat Shalom. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Hey Joe, I'm not mad at John either, :-) but I also want to be counted in for the special Tefilot we intend to say on behalf of ALL the children of ALL of Israel. Kim, that still fits the original idea, right?!?! Notice when you go back and read Yehezkel (Ezekiel) Chapter 37 (which I now can associate chapter/verse after my first of two PR's). For the "two sticks" to be joined, it's not just Judah and Israel/Ephraim/Joseph, but also, "..and those associated with them." That's a LOT of children to pray for....our own little families, and our really BIG ONE. May HaShem realize that we did the best we possibly could, under the circumstances we all were in, at that time, for our own children. May HE look out for ALL of HIS children, now, and forever... Hanoch On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:41 AM, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: Shalom Eliron, did I miss something? Why would I be mad at you , achi ? I have no grounds whatsoever. In fact you and Carin are very dear to me. I did request leave from the dialogue list a couple of weeks ago due to work commitments after we had severe storms here in Australia. The damage was incredible. Being an Architect, I hope you understand the enormity of my duties towards rectification and remedial work, not only to property but shattered human lives. Things are only just starting to go back to normal. Last Erev Shabbat, my great companion, Vanya the wonder dog, finally succumbed to old age and passed away at the age of 14. Last Shabbat was the first in 13 years without my old mate. Heidi and I are still devastated at the loss but gradually coming to terms with it. With regards to Hannah's prayer request this coming Shabbat - USA time , we will get things started here in the land down under a day in advance and you can put the icing on the cake as a grand finale. It is such a worthy cause to pray for the children and babes, I could not think of a better request to our beloved Abba in Shamayim. He sees us all as His children. The spirit of Eliyahu is indeed in full swing as he is restoring us to the faith of the Avot, but none greater than our Creator and Heavenly Father. Baruch HaShem. Let us get this prayer chain happening. In full support. A special hug and kiss to Carin. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. Thank you Joe. Personally, I'm hoping that this will be a sweet savor for His nostrils. (I was beginning to think you were mad at me you didn't answer some of my last responses to you, it was awhile ago). -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shalom Eliron and Hannah, count me in, all the way. I have no children, however I will pray for all my G-d children and all the children of all the wonderful people on the dialogue list. A special prayer should be made for the babes of Torah, that they should be nurtured by the milk of Torah, comforted and encouraged by the veterans. I will be with y'all next Erev Shabbat in spirit and in the truth of Torah. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/87a24117/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 12 02:51:17 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 07:51:17 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer... In-Reply-To: References: <855590370906080448l2f550170x27054642db2bdace@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <061220090751.28763.4A3208F50003C3210000705B22230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Can't get it to open Diana, sorry. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Diana Stone" : -------------- ? Just finished listening to this audio teaching by Rabbi Sears on the topic of 'Hisbodedus', which refers to prayer from the heart in ones own words, and thought others on this list would appreciate it. Practical Guide to Hisbodedus - An Audio Shiur By Rabbi Dovid Sears http://asimplejew.blogspot.com:80/2009/06/practical-guide-to-hisbodedus-audio.html Blessings to All, Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: Hanoch Young To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:48 AM Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer... Boker tov L'Kulam, I just saw this note, which I think helps connect our prayers with the appropriate visualization; making it more meaningful, and hopefully, even more effective then they could have been! It's from the Mystical Paths website... Hanoch '??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??" ????? ?"?,?" (91 days..) "Let us go up an inherit the Land of Israel, for we are surely able" Numbers 13:30 Prayer by Reb Gutman Locks at Mystical Paths Prayer has to become genuine, alive. One very small but meaningful gesture is, when saying the words, ?You open Your hand and satisfy the desire of every living thing,?[i] to turn your palms upward as if you are trying to receive what it is He is giving. Why are you facing your palms upward? Because you truly believe that G-d?s hand is open and He is trying to give you something. And you are opening your hand heavenward because you want to receive His gifts. This shows that you really believe the words that you are saying. There are many religious Jews who can tell you where every prayer is written and many can even repeat them by heart, but there are very few who can tell you what they actually mean. Often people ask what can be done to improve their concentration during prayer. They complain that their minds keep wandering off the subject onto other totally unrelated things. Really, there is only one thing that you can do when this happens. As soon as you realize that you are off the subject, gently return. Again and again, quietly return to what you want to be concentrating on. This is like a weightlifter who continually picks up his weights, again and again. Each time you return to the subject you get a little stronger. There is another easy thing you can do that will help make your prayers more interesting, and actually more effective. Whatever you pray for, briefly imagine it coming into being. This means that when you are davening the Amidah (the standing, silent prayers), as you are finishing one of the 19 established prayers, such as, ?Blessed are You . . . Who rebuilds Jerusalem,? or ??Who heals the sick,? briefly picture what you are praying for to happen. In these two cases you could picture Jerusalem, including the Third Temple, made entirely out of brightly shining gold, floating down from Heaven settling over and filling the present-day Jerusalem. Or, when praying for the sick, picture the sick jumping out of their wheelchairs, throwing away their crutches, and dancing down the street. ?Think good and it will be good.? _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/ba307700/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 04:58:36 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 05:58:36 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Breaking the "Unbreakable Bonds" Message-ID: <855590370906120258j3d43c412xe41d85863655ed47@mail.gmail.com> >From the Generation Z Bolg of Yishai & Malka Fleisher.... Shabbat Shalom, * Hanoch* Sivan 19, 5769, 6/11/2009 Breaking the "Unbreakable Bonds" On June 4, US President Barack Hussein Obama addressed the Muslim world from Cairo University, in a speech which is still being scrutinized and discussed in papers, on blogs, and at the coffee table. Following this speech, which raised a lot of issues on the Israel front, I heard a lot of people commenting on how fair and balanced he was, despite his obvious courting of Arabia. How eloquent, how leaderly, how well thought out. Moreover, those who love Israel seemed surprised at their own lack of indignance. After all, while Obama brazenly slammed Jewish outgrowth and development in their ancient biblical regions, he also soothed many a prickling Jewish soul with the following: "Now, the second major source of tension that we need to discuss is the situation between Israelis, Palestinians and the Arab world. America's strong bonds with Israel are well-known. This bond is unbreakable. It is based upon cultural and historical ties and the recognition that the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history that cannot be denied." Jews were relieved - America is still whole-heartedly committed in its allegiance with Israel. Things aren't as bad as we thought, they thought. I beg to differ. Obama is nothing if not a calculated and cunning speaker. Though he is prone to flubs from time to time, we can be sure that this speech may have been the most exacting of his young career. Every word is important. And so I'd like to focus on the "unbreakable bonds". What does this mean? I would like to assert that it has nothing to do with friendship or mutual respect. Let's go to the dictionary (we'll be using Princeton's Wordnet) on this word "bond". Many people have chosen to assume that Obama said "This [bring[ing] together in a common cause or emotion] is unbreakable." However, I have the suspicion that what Obama really meant was "This [shackle: a restraint that confines or restricts freedom ] is unbreakable." The nice, sweet layJew was meant to hear this first message - Jews, I am your friend! But diplomats in Israel were able to hear the true underlying message - whatever your plans are, know that we will be the ultimate decidor, Israel. We are not freeing you from the shackles with which we bind you. Sorry, B.O. I'm not soothed by your slick tongue. I think you will stop at nothing to unite (or "bond") with the Arab world. So count me among the ever-prickly, President Obama. I'm not investing in your bonds. *Malkah* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/46bff067/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Fri Jun 12 07:18:28 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:18:28 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Anti Semitism Message-ID: Hey gang, When I need information I try to seek out the smartest people I know and YOUR IT! I got into a discussion the other day after this killing at the Holocaust Museum in DC, with a Christian minister and he was at a loss to understand this Anti-Semitism that he see's growing in the world. Now understand he would be of the opinion of most Christians, that Jews have to accept Jesus and all that but, something I believe changed in him from previous conversations we have had. You could tell from his tone of voice that he was now not making a statement but seeking information and understanding. At any rate we had a good conversation about the roots of anti-Semitism. My question to you guys. It seems to me not long ago that there was a new book published that laid this all out from the beginning down to today. As I recall this book did not only deal with the natural outward physical acts of Anti Semitism, but it laid out the biblical bases and ideals of it's, spiritual origins. I'm looking for a book that deals with this issue from a biblical spiritual bases and naturally, I want a Jewish viewpoint and not secular or Christian one. I believe Anti Semitism is different then any other hated against a group of people, therefore the subject would have to be studied and written on form a different perspective then just doing a research on why group A does not like group B. Does anyone know of this book or another they could recommend. Shalom, Marvin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/f052acea/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Fri Jun 12 07:56:49 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (Margie Creech) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 05:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Iranian attack on Israel will NOT be seen as attack on US Message-ID: <552518.87329.qm@web58505.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I know I'm not surprised! ? ? 'Iranian attack on Israel will NOT be seen as attack on US' ?Stan Goodenough June 12, 2009 One year after declaring - as a presidential candidate - that an Iranian attack on Israel would be regarded as an attack on the US, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton earlier this week revealed that this was certainly not the policy of the Obama administration. While the Iranians could expect 'retaliation,' America was not committing itself to come to Israel's defense. Clinton was being interviewed on ABC TV's 'This Week' show by the station's White House Correspondent George Stephanopoulos, who reminded her of what she had said in 2008. Before playing a video recording in which Clinton emphatically states: "I would make it clear to the Iranians that an attack on Israel would incur massive retaliation from the United States," Stephanopoulos told her that this "was your position during the campaign." "Is it US policy now," he asked the woman who repeatedly describes herself as a staunch friend of the Jewish state. Instead of sending the unequivocal and reassuring message Israel wants to hear on this critical existential issue, Clinton, um'd and ah'd. "I think it is US policy to the extent that we have alliances and understandings with a number of nations," she said, then added, "I don't think there is any doubt in anyone's mind that, were Israel to suffer a nuclear attack by Iran, there would be retaliation." Stephanopoulos pressed her: "By the United States?" But she would not commit. "Well, I think there would be retaliation," she said. Observers wondered whether Clinton was simply adopting a more pragmatic position on the issue now that, as The Jerusalem Post?s Caroline Glick wrote last week, the Obama ?administration has made its peace with Iran?s nuclear aspirations" and was preparing to live in a world with "a nuclear-armed mullocracy." Even if the US was to fire weapons of mass destruction against Iran in retaliation for a nuclear strike on Israel, the Jewish state is so small, with the majority of its population centered in a strip of land along the Mediterranean Coast, that it would not benefit at all from such a response. Israel would be no more. Clinton's readiness to publicly back her country off from a position she said she would hold were she president is in line with the recently-revealed shift in America's alliances in the Middle East. In a major foreign policy speech delivered in Cairo last week, President Barack Obama came out strongly in support of historically-illegitimate Arab aspirations, while effectively undermining the legitimacy of Israel's claims and rights. Israelis have reacted to the betrayal with shock and disbelief. The transcript of the Stephanopoulos-Clinton interview is available here. But to see and hear Clinton's vacillation you really have to watch and listen to the online video here. The clip is entitled: "Clinton: Iranian attack on Israel is attack on US." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/a9afdb30/attachment.html From shcole1 at cox.net Fri Jun 12 08:45:36 2009 From: shcole1 at cox.net (sherry cole) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:45:36 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. In-Reply-To: <4A31D9EB.4090906@westnet.com.au> References: <4A31D9EB.4090906@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <3CEACB8D0A794C1FB77F669764DDA691@sherryPC> Shabbat shalom Joe, Thank you for the beautiful words of encouragement. This really spoke to my heart. Blessings, Sherry ----- Original Message ----- From: JOE INDOMENICO To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:30 PM Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Shalom Hannah and chaverim, Shabbat is on our doorstep in Australia. I wanted to start the ball rolling and then pass the baton to other members on the dialogue as this prayer chain revolves around the globe and culminates with the vast majority of you in the USA. The world has become very dark indeed. Our children offer that glimmer of light and hatikva. They are the harvest of our sowing. Not only our biological children but our spiritual ones as well. The day that we are born , that split second when we breathe our first gasp of air, we are one second closer to the moment when we breathe our last gasp at death. Our most precious commodity in life is time. It is limited. So the most precious gift that we can give of ourselves is our time. The time we share with our children and our dependents is commensurate to how we shape their world. Gold and silver cannot measure with time. Time is our very life. So as we pray , remember the time that HaShem has invested in us and may we in turn selflessly give to all the needy, the hungry, the thirsty, the lonely, those in the prison of life, those afflicted with bondage and those that are hurting requiring healing. This is the great commission of Avinu Malcheinu Shebashamayim. Our love for Him is reflected in how we love one another. ? ??????, ??????????: ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. 4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. ? ???????????, ??? ?????? ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. ? ??????? ??????????? ????????, ?????? ??????? ????????? ???????--???-????????. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart; ? ?????????????? ?????????, ???????????? ????, ????????????? ?????????? ????????????? ?????????, ?????????????? ???????????. 7 and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. ? ????????????? ??????, ???-??????; ??????? ?????????, ????? ????????. 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they shall be for frontlets between thine eyes. ? ???????????? ???-???????? ????????, ??????????????. {?} 9 And thou shalt write them upon the door-posts of thy house, and upon thy gates. {S} I would also like to add a special prayer for the lost children of HaShem to come home into the waiting arms of Our Compassionate and Merciful Abba. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vBITFtyR7w&feature=related ?? ???? ????? ??????, ???? ???????? ???????? ????? ?????? ???????????--?????, ???????? ???-????????; ??????? ?????????? ???-????????, ???? ?????????. {?} 14 Thus saith the LORD: A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children; she refuseth to be comforted for her children, because they are not. {S} ?? ???? ????? ??????, ??????? ??????? ????????, ???????????, ??????????: ???? ???? ?????? ????????????? ?????-??????, ???????? ??????? ??????. 15 Thus saith the LORD: Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears; for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come back from the land of the enemy. ?? ??????-???????? ?????????????, ?????-??????; ???????? ??????, ??????????. {?} 16 And there is hope for thy future, saith the LORD; and thy children shall return to their own border. {S} http://www.aish.com/movies/beautifulworld.asp Shabbat Shalom JOE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/ae137d16/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Fri Jun 12 09:04:47 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:04:47 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Iranian attack on Israel will NOT be seen as attack on US In-Reply-To: <552518.87329.qm@web58505.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <552518.87329.qm@web58505.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Now there arose a new king over Egypt who knew not Joseph." Exodus 1:8 I didn't vote for O, he worried me a lot, but I never dreamed he would aspire to be PHARAoH..... Like Pharaoh of old, he will find out what it is to go up agaist the G-d of gods, Who watches over His children, Israel, and Who never sleeps nor slumbers. Perhaps the stage is being set for Exodus II....... Avigail Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 05:56:49 -0700 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Iranian attack on Israel will NOT be seen as attack on US I know I'm not surprised! 'Iranian attack on Israel will NOT be seen as attack on US' Stan Goodenough June 12, 2009 One year after declaring - as a presidential candidate - that an Iranian attack on Israel would be regarded as an attack on the US, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton earlier this week revealed that this was certainly not the policy of the Obama administration. While the Iranians could expect 'retaliation,' America was not committing itself to come to Israel's defense. Clinton was being interviewed on ABC TV's 'This Week' show by the station's White House Correspondent George Stephanopoulos, who reminded her of what she had said in 2008. Before playing a video recording in which Clinton emphatically states: "I would make it clear to the Iranians that an attack on Israel would incur massive retaliation from the United States," Stephanopoulos told her that this "was your position during the campaign." "Is it US policy now," he asked the woman who repeatedly describes herself as a staunch friend of the Jewish state. Instead of sending the unequivocal and reassuring message Israel wants to hear on this critical existential issue, Clinton, um'd and ah'd. "I think it is US policy to the extent that we have alliances and understandings with a number of nations," she said, then added, "I don't think there is any doubt in anyone's mind that, were Israel to suffer a nuclear attack by Iran, there would be retaliation." Stephanopoulos pressed her: "By the United States?" But she would not commit. "Well, I think there would be retaliation," she said. Observers wondered whether Clinton was simply adopting a more pragmatic position on the issue now that, as The Jerusalem Post?s Caroline Glick wrote last week, the Obama ?administration has made its peace with Iran?s nuclear aspirations" and was preparing to live in a world with "a nuclear-armed mullocracy." Even if the US was to fire weapons of mass destruction against Iran in retaliation for a nuclear strike on Israel, the Jewish state is so small, with the majority of its population centered in a strip of land along the Mediterranean Coast, that it would not benefit at all from such a response. Israel would be no more. Clinton's readiness to publicly back her country off from a position she said she would hold were she president is in line with the recently-revealed shift in America's alliances in the Middle East. In a major foreign policy speech delivered in Cairo last week, President Barack Obama came out strongly in support of historically-illegitimate Arab aspirations, while effectively undermining the legitimacy of Israel's claims and rights. Israelis have reacted to the betrayal with shock and disbelief. The transcript of the Stephanopoulos-Clinton interview is available here. But to see and hear Clinton's vacillation you really have to watch and listen to the online video here. The clip is entitled: "Clinton: Iranian attack on Israel is attack on US." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/aaa92ce9/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Fri Jun 12 09:57:13 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:57:13 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. In-Reply-To: <4A31D9EB.4090906@westnet.com.au> References: <4A31D9EB.4090906@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: What a wonderful note, Joe! Thank you, and we will be extending your beautiful and powerful prayers as Shabbat begins here. Shabbat Shalom to all, Avigail Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:30:35 +1000 From: jid at westnet.com.au To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Shalom Hannah and chaverim, Shabbat is on our doorstep in Australia. I wanted to start the ball rolling and then pass the baton to other members on the dialogue as this prayer chain revolves around the globe and culminates with the vast majority of you in the USA. The world has become very dark indeed. Our children offer that glimmer of light and hatikva. They are the harvest of our sowing. Not only our biological children but our spiritual ones as well. The day that we are born , that split second when we breathe our first gasp of air, we are one second closer to the moment when we breathe our last gasp at death. Our most precious commodity in life is time. It is limited. So the most precious gift that we can give of ourselves is our time. The time we share with our children and our dependents is commensurate to how we shape their world. Gold and silver cannot measure with time. Time is our very life. So as we pray , remember the time that HaShem has invested in us and may we in turn selflessly give to all the needy, the hungry, the thirsty, the lonely, those in the prison of life, those afflicted with bondage and those that are hurting requiring healing. This is the great commission of Avinu Malcheinu Shebashamayim. Our love for Him is reflected in how we love one another. ? ??????, ??????????: ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. 4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. ? ???????????, ??? ?????? ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. ? ??????? ??????????? ????????, ?????? ??????? ????????? ???????--???-????????. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart; ? ?????????????? ?????????, ???????????? ????, ????????????? ?????????? ????????????? ?????????, ?????????????? ???????????. 7 and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. ? ????????????? ??????, ???-??????; ??????? ?????????, ????? ????????. 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they shall be for frontlets between thine eyes. ? ???????????? ???-???????? ????????, ??????????????. {?} 9 And thou shalt write them upon the door-posts of thy house, and upon thy gates. {S} I would also like to add a special prayer for the lost children of HaShem to come home into the waiting arms of Our Compassionate and Merciful Abba. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vBITFtyR7w&feature=related ?? ???? ????? ??????, ???? ???????? ???????? ????? ?????? ???????????--?????, ???????? ???-????????; ??????? ?????????? ???-????????, ???? ?????????. {?} 14 Thus saith the LORD: A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children; she refuseth to be comforted for her children, because they are not. {S} ?? ???? ????? ??????, ??????? ??????? ????????, ???????????, ??????????: ???? ???? ?????? ????????????? ?????-??????, ???????? ??????? ??????. 15 Thus saith the LORD: Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears; for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come back from the land of the enemy. ?? ??????-???????? ?????????????, ?????-??????; ???????? ??????, ??????????. {?} 16 And there is hope for thy future, saith the LORD; and thy children shall return to their own border. {S} http://www.aish.com/movies/beautifulworld.asp Shabbat Shalom JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/91abc0b1/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Fri Jun 12 10:25:55 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:25:55 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] FW: [Dialogue P.S.] Living the Shema & a Prayer for children Message-ID: <71803DCA62744EBE8D3AB5A2690C3CDE@bettylaptop> As I was hitting the ?send? button, the beautiful passage at the end of Malachi came to mind and I thought it would indeed be very appropriate for us to think, meditate on and pray? ?Behold, I will send you Eliyya, the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of HaShem; and He shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse.? Malachi 3:23-24 Note the word ?heart? is in the singular?that means we all have to have One Heart?I think this is very significant? May it some to pass in our day and in our time, Shabbat Shalom all, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: Betty K Givin [mailto:bkgivin at verizon.net] Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:14 AM To: 'dialogue at rootsoffaith.org' Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Living the Shema & a Prayer for children First of all, thank you so much, Joe, for beginning our round of prayers for this special day we have set aside to pray for our children and grandchildren, and also as Hanoch suggested, all of HaShem?s children all over the globe. Your lovely words below and the two prayers you have included below in the Shema and the V?ahavta and the beautiful words describing Rachel weeping for her children have been special to me from the time I first read them. I think they are most moving and especially appropriate for this Shabbat. I also have a prayer that I say after I kindle the Sabbath lights each Shabbat. There are many beautiful prayers that can be found in various siddurim associated with candle lighting, but this one is the one I have chosen. It was originally given to me by a dear friend of mine and can be found in NCSY (National Conference of Synagogue Youth) Bencher. A Bencher for those of you are not familiar with the term is simply a collection of prayers and songs for Shabbat and festivals. I have taken the liberty to add a few words to make it more meaningful to me, which you may do as well. I suggest that those of us who would like can join me in this prayer this evening or sometime tomorrow. It is short, but very sweet. Ye?hi (pronounced Y?hee with a long e) ratzon, May it be Your Will, HaShem our G-D and G-D of our fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that you bless each of us here (name the people at your Shabbat table if appropriate ) along with our families who cannot be with us? and that you be gracious to us and to our children and to our grandchildren? (name them if appropriate) and to all of Your children from the four corners of the earth? crowning us all with Your Divine Presence, Your Schekinah, dwelling among us. Please help us in raising (or continuing to raise or influence as the case may be) our children and our grandchildren so that they will grow in You and will ?dazzle? the world with the sparks of Torah and Goodness? Please, HaShem, ensure that the glow of our lives will never be dimmed? Show us the glow of your face, And we will all be saved. Amein Even though our children are grown and married and often not with us for Shabbat, Roger and I still sing the Aaronic Benediction to them and to our grandchildren as a form of a prayer from afar. I have included it below along with a transliteration. The words are beautiful in Hebrew and can be chanted or simply read. Y?varech?cha Adonai, v?yishm? recha, May HaShem bless you and keep you (or watch over you) Ya-ayr Adonai panav alecha vechu neka, May HaShem shine His face towards you and be gracious to you, Yisa Adonai panav alecha, May HaShem lift up His Countenance upon you, V?yasaym l?cha shalom, And give you peace Numbers 6:24-26 May we truly join together in a mighty way as we pray for strength and wisdom in raising our children and grandchildren and may all of us and all of HaShem?s children spread from the four corners of the earth be blessed with a deeper knowledge of His Presence. May He indeed dwell among us in these last days! Shabbat Shalom Chaverim! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of sherry cole Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:46 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Shabbat shalom Joe, Thank you for the beautiful words of encouragement. This really spoke to my heart. Blessings, Sherry ----- Original Message ----- From: JOE INDOMENICO To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:30 PM Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Shalom Hannah and chaverim, Shabbat is on our doorstep in Australia. I wanted to start the ball rolling and then pass the baton to other members on the dialogue as this prayer chain revolves around the globe and culminates with the vast majority of you in the USA. The world has become very dark indeed. Our children offer that glimmer of light and hatikva. They are the harvest of our sowing. Not only our biological children but our spiritual ones as well. The day that we are born , that split second when we breathe our first gasp of air, we are one second closer to the moment when we breathe our last gasp at death. Our most precious commodity in life is time. It is limited. So the most precious gift that we can give of ourselves is our time. The time we share with our children and our dependents is commensurate to how we shape their world. Gold and silver cannot measure with time. Time is our very life. So as we pray , remember the time that HaShem has invested in us and may we in turn selflessly give to all the needy, the hungry, the thirsty, the lonely, those in the prison of life, those afflicted with bondage and those that are hurting requiring healing. This is the great commission of Avinu Malcheinu Shebashamayim. Our love for Him is reflected in how we love one another. ? ??????, ??????????: ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. 4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. ? ???????????, ??? ?????? ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. ? ??????? ??????????? ????????, ?????? ??????? ????????? ???????--???-????????. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart; ? ?????????????? ?????????, ???????????? ????, ????????????? ?????????? ????????????? ?????????, ?????????????? ???????????. 7 and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. ? ????????????? ??????, ???-??????; ??????? ?????????, ????? ????????. 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they shall be for frontlets between thine eyes. ? ???????????? ???-???????? ????????, ??????????????. {?} 9 And thou shalt write them upon the door-posts of thy house, and upon thy gates. {S} I would also like to add a special prayer for the lost children of HaShem to come home into the waiting arms of Our Compassionate and Merciful Abba. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vBITFtyR7w &feature=related ?? ???? ????? ??????, ???? ???????? ???????? ????? ?????? ???????????--?????, ???????? ???-????????; ??????? ?????????? ???-????????, ???? ?????????. {?} 14 Thus saith the LORD: A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children; she refuseth to be comforted for her children, because they are not. {S} ?? ???? ????? ??????, ??????? ??????? ????????, ???????????, ??????????: ???? ???? ?????? ????????????? ?????-??????, ???????? ??????? ??????. 15 Thus saith the LORD: Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears; for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come back from the land of the enemy. ?? ??????-???????? ?????????????, ?????-??????; ???????? ??????, ??????????. {?} 16 And there is hope for thy future, saith the LORD; and thy children shall return to their own border. {S} http://www.aish.com/movies/beautifulworld.asp Shabbat Shalom JOE. _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/824d2980/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Fri Jun 12 10:13:38 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:13:38 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema & a Prayer for children In-Reply-To: <3CEACB8D0A794C1FB77F669764DDA691@sherryPC> References: <4A31D9EB.4090906@westnet.com.au> <3CEACB8D0A794C1FB77F669764DDA691@sherryPC> Message-ID: First of all, thank you so much, Joe, for beginning our round of prayers for this special day we have set aside to pray for our children and grandchildren, and also as Hanoch suggested, all of HaShem?s children all over the globe. Your lovely words below and the two prayers you have included below in the Shema and the V?ahavta and the beautiful words describing Rachel weeping for her children have been special to me from the time I first read them. I think they are most moving and especially appropriate for this Shabbat. I also have a prayer that I say after I kindle the Sabbath lights each Shabbat. There are many beautiful prayers that can be found in various siddurim associated with candle lighting, but this one is the one I have chosen. It was originally given to me by a dear friend of mine and can be found in NCSY (National Conference of Synagogue Youth) Bencher. A Bencher for those of you are not familiar with the term is simply a collection of prayers and songs for Shabbat and festivals. I have taken the liberty to add a few words to make it more meaningful to me, which you may do as well. I suggest that those of us who would like can join me in this prayer this evening or sometime tomorrow. It is short, but very sweet. Ye?hi (pronounced Y?hee with a long e) ratzon, May it be Your Will, HaShem our G-D and G-D of our fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that you bless each of us here (name the people at your Shabbat table if appropriate ) along with our families who cannot be with us? and that you be gracious to us and to our children and to our grandchildren? (name them if appropriate) and to all of Your children from the four corners of the earth? crowning us all with Your Divine Presence, Your Schekinah, dwelling among us. Please help us in raising (or continuing to raise or influence as the case may be) our children and our grandchildren so that they will grow in You and will ?dazzle? the world with the sparks of Torah and Goodness? Please, HaShem, ensure that the glow of our lives will never be dimmed? Show us the glow of your face, And we will all be saved. Amein Even though our children are grown and married and often not with us for Shabbat, Roger and I still sing the Aaronic Benediction to them and to our grandchildren as a form of a prayer from afar. I have included it below along with a transliteration. The words are beautiful in Hebrew and can be chanted or simply read. Y?varech?cha Adonai, v?yishm? recha, May HaShem bless you and keep you (or watch over you) Ya-ayr Adonai panav alecha vechu neka, May HaShem shine His face towards you and be gracious to you, Yisa Adonai panav alecha, May HaShem lift up His Countenance upon you, V?yasaym l?cha shalom, And give you peace Numbers 6:24-26 May we truly join together in a mighty way as we pray for strength and wisdom in raising our children and grandchildren and may all of us and all of HaShem?s children spread from the four corners of the earth be blessed with a deeper knowledge of His Presence. May He indeed dwell among us in these last days! Shabbat Shalom Chaverim! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of sherry cole Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:46 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Shabbat shalom Joe, Thank you for the beautiful words of encouragement. This really spoke to my heart. Blessings, Sherry ----- Original Message ----- From: JOE INDOMENICO To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:30 PM Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Shalom Hannah and chaverim, Shabbat is on our doorstep in Australia. I wanted to start the ball rolling and then pass the baton to other members on the dialogue as this prayer chain revolves around the globe and culminates with the vast majority of you in the USA. The world has become very dark indeed. Our children offer that glimmer of light and hatikva. They are the harvest of our sowing. Not only our biological children but our spiritual ones as well. The day that we are born , that split second when we breathe our first gasp of air, we are one second closer to the moment when we breathe our last gasp at death. Our most precious commodity in life is time. It is limited. So the most precious gift that we can give of ourselves is our time. The time we share with our children and our dependents is commensurate to how we shape their world. Gold and silver cannot measure with time. Time is our very life. So as we pray , remember the time that HaShem has invested in us and may we in turn selflessly give to all the needy, the hungry, the thirsty, the lonely, those in the prison of life, those afflicted with bondage and those that are hurting requiring healing. This is the great commission of Avinu Malcheinu Shebashamayim. Our love for Him is reflected in how we love one another. ? ??????, ??????????: ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. 4 Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. ? ???????????, ??? ?????? ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. ? ??????? ??????????? ????????, ?????? ??????? ????????? ???????--???-????????. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart; ? ?????????????? ?????????, ???????????? ????, ????????????? ?????????? ????????????? ?????????, ?????????????? ???????????. 7 and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. ? ????????????? ??????, ???-??????; ??????? ?????????, ????? ????????. 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they shall be for frontlets between thine eyes. ? ???????????? ???-???????? ????????, ??????????????. {?} 9 And thou shalt write them upon the door-posts of thy house, and upon thy gates. {S} I would also like to add a special prayer for the lost children of HaShem to come home into the waiting arms of Our Compassionate and Merciful Abba. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vBITFtyR7w &feature=related ?? ???? ????? ??????, ???? ???????? ???????? ????? ?????? ???????????--?????, ???????? ???-????????; ??????? ?????????? ???-????????, ???? ?????????. {?} 14 Thus saith the LORD: A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children; she refuseth to be comforted for her children, because they are not. {S} ?? ???? ????? ??????, ??????? ??????? ????????, ???????????, ??????????: ???? ???? ?????? ????????????? ?????-??????, ???????? ??????? ??????. 15 Thus saith the LORD: Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears; for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come back from the land of the enemy. ?? ??????-???????? ?????????????, ?????-??????; ???????? ??????, ??????????. {?} 16 And there is hope for thy future, saith the LORD; and thy children shall return to their own border. {S} http://www.aish.com/movies/beautifulworld.asp Shabbat Shalom JOE. _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/6d4e8540/attachment.html From stephen at 777jesusislord.com Fri Jun 12 13:57:16 2009 From: stephen at 777jesusislord.com (stephen) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:57:16 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] prayer for children References: <4A32893F.5A82C.5F98@iris2.directnic.com> Message-ID: <5FCD27EE02CF4F7EBA305F7E161B9374@SEWVAC011> Betty, Reading your kind encouragement to pray for children and grandchildren, reminded me of what so many of us have in common, even if we find ourselves with belief sets which are not always the same. I find Psalm 139 to be an encouragement to me, when praying for my grown children, [ no grandchildren yet ]... As a man, I can only imagine the love a woman can have for her children when meditating on verses such as the following: To have a living child, formed inside your own body, and to contemplate 13-16 can not but help bring tears to the eye. For space sake I limited to 13-16 form Psalm 139 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. I find the above the more remarkable, when I consider, that David, wrote this after the sin of numbering the people of Israel. [I think - I am not a scholar ] And 70,000 men died for David's sin. I have pondered David looking upon and pondering, woman and children in Jerusalem, who had no dad's, as a consequence of his sin. Just reading Psalm 139 in that context is overwhelming. That depth of LOVE which David realized was upon him --- is upon our children, and grandchildren should we have them. Stephen "First of all, thank you so much, Joe, for beginning our round of prayers for this special day we have set aside to pray for our children and grandchildren, and also as Hanoch suggested, all of HaShem's children all over the globe. Your lovely words below and the two prayers you have included below in the Shema and the V'ahavta and the beautiful words describing Rachel weeping for her children have been special to me from the time I first read them. I think they are most moving and especially appropriate for this Shabbat. I also have a prayer that I say after I kindle the Sabbath lights each Shabbat. There are many beautiful prayers that can be found in various siddurim associated with candle lighting, but this one is the one I have chosen. It was originally given to me by a dear friend of mine and can be found in NCSY (National Conference of Synagogue Youth) Bencher. A Bencher for those of you are not familiar with the term is simply a collection of prayers and songs for Shabbat and festivals. I have taken the liberty to add a few words to make it more meaningful to me, which you may do as well. I suggest that those of us who would like can join me in this prayer this evening or sometime tomorrow. It is short, but very sweet. Ye'hi (pronounced Y'hee with a long e) ratzon, May it be Your Will, HaShem our G-D and G-D of our fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that you bless each of us here (name the people at your Shabbat table if appropriate ) along with our families who cannot be with us. and that you be gracious to us and to our children and to our grandchildren. (name them if appropriate) and to all of Your children from the four corners of the earth. crowning us all with Your Divine Presence, Your Schekinah, dwelling among us. Please help us in raising (or continuing to raise or influence as the case may be) our children and our grandchildren so that they will grow in You and will 'dazzle' the world with the sparks of Torah and Goodness. Please, HaShem, ensure that the glow of our lives will never be dimmed. Show us the glow of your face, And we will all be saved. Amein Even though our children are grown and married and often not with us for Shabbat, Roger and I still sing the Aaronic Benediction to them and to our grandchildren as a form of a prayer from afar. I have included it below along with a transliteration. The words are beautiful in Hebrew and can be chanted or simply read. Y'varech'cha Adonai, v'yishm' recha, May HaShem bless you and keep you (or watch over you) Ya-ayr Adonai panav alecha vechu neka, May HaShem shine His face towards you and be gracious to you, Yisa Adonai panav alecha, May HaShem lift up His Countenance upon you, V'yasaym l'cha shalom, And give you peace Numbers 6:24-26 May we truly join together in a mighty way as we pray for strength and wisdom in raising our children and grandchildren and may all of us and all of HaShem's children spread from the four corners of the earth be blessed with a deeper knowledge of His Presence. May He indeed dwell among us in these last days! Shabbat Shalom Chaverim! Elisheva/Betty" From webhulon at msn.com Fri Jun 12 14:36:26 2009 From: webhulon at msn.com (Web Hulon) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:36:26 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] prayer for children In-Reply-To: <5FCD27EE02CF4F7EBA305F7E161B9374@SEWVAC011> References: <4A32893F.5A82C.5F98@iris2.directnic.com> <5FCD27EE02CF4F7EBA305F7E161B9374@SEWVAC011> Message-ID: Shalom all, We at Beth Lechem will pray for all of the children as we place our hands on the heads of our sons and daughters tonight and bless them that they might be like our faithful fathers and mothers of old. But I must also add that an example is a much greater blessing than words alone. Don't just speak of the Torah, but live the Torah. Your words will carry much more weight. We insist that our teachings and understandings be in context. How wonderful if we too were in context. Yisrael is a people, not an idea or a religion. We can't be the example that our children need if we remain alone. Find Yisrael and love them face to face. This is context. Do whatever you must do to be in context. Move. Quit your job. Forsake your security. This is how it all started with Avraham. If you really want to bless your children show them what it means to be a part of Yisrael rather than apart from Yisrael. And because northing speaks louder than a true witness, I will give you one. Sofiyah is a lady in our community. We met her at a conference in Pennsylvania in 2001. Within a year she had left behing the place of her birth, her siblings, her grown children and her grandchildren to come be a part of our community. She said that YHWH's children would be her children. A couple of years ago her daughter Sharon came for a visit. She saw the Torah lived out in a people. A year ago she and her husband Dave left behind children and grandchildren, a business and house that was paid for to come be a part of our community. A few months later their son Josh came to visit. He never went back. He arrived in Yisrael this afternoon with my daughter Selah to work with James on the Mt. Zion dig. We just received a photo of them kindling the Sabbath lights at John Hulley's house. Josh is there because Sofiyah was willing to pull up her tent pegs. This is her reward and it rewards us all. Pray for your children and granchildren and we will join you in your prayers. Just remember that the Hebrew word for pray is palal and it actually means "to judge." So let us each judge where we stand and ask if we are in context as we beg Abba to set our children in a firm place. Shabbat Shalom Web _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/0b03107e/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: shabbat shalom.jpg Type: image/pjpeg Size: 138962 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/0b03107e/attachment.bin From youngbarzel at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 14:58:17 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:58:17 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] prayer for children In-Reply-To: References: <4A32893F.5A82C.5F98@iris2.directnic.com> <5FCD27EE02CF4F7EBA305F7E161B9374@SEWVAC011> Message-ID: <855590370906121258x2593f6adw32ecc9e5ed68f976@mail.gmail.com> Hey Web, Beautifully written, and painfully true...on all counts. After meeting the Beth Lechem community in North Carolina, I have been filled with the desire to tell all of my cousins to *come together*! It's *only *with, and through a community that you can *live* a lifestyle of Torah, and your community IS the example of that. Web, thanks for writing this...and I hope that people really take it to heart. I hope that Selah and Josh have a chance to spend some time with Ayala at the dig. I'm sure they will all have an amazing experience. Maybe during next summer's dig - B'Ezrat HaShem (with G-d's help), we can be the host for Shabbat. :-) Shabbat Shalom Web, and to all of Beth Lechem! * Hanoch* On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Web Hulon wrote: > Shalom all, > We at Beth Lechem will pray for all of the children as we place our hands > on the heads of our sons and daughters tonight and bless them that they > might be like our faithful fathers and mothers of old. > > But I must also add that an example is a much greater blessing than words > alone. Don't just speak of the Torah, but live the Torah. Your words will > carry much more weight. > > We insist that our teachings and understandings be in context. How > wonderful if we too were in context. Yisrael is a people, not an idea or a > religion. We can't be the example that our children need if we remain > alone. Find Yisrael and love them face to face. This is context. Do > whatever you must do to be in context. Move. Quit your job. Forsake your > security. This is how it all started with Avraham. > > If you really want to bless your children show them what it means to be a > part *of* Yisrael rather than apart *from* Yisrael. And because northing > speaks louder than a true witness, I will give you one. > > Sofiyah is a lady in our community. We met her at a conference in > Pennsylvania in 2001. Within a year she had left behing the place of her > birth, her siblings, her grown children and her grandchildren to come be a > part of our community. She said that YHWH's children would be her > children. > > A couple of years ago her daughter Sharon came for a visit. She saw the > Torah lived out in a people. A year ago she and her husband Dave left > behind children and grandchildren, a business and house that was paid for to > come be a part of our community. > > A few months later their son Josh came to visit. He never went back. He > arrived in Yisrael this afternoon with my daughter Selah to work with James > on the Mt. Zion dig. We just received a photo of them kindling the Sabbath > lights at John Hulley's house. Josh is there because Sofiyah was willing to > pull up her tent pegs. This is her reward and it rewards us all. > > Pray for your children and granchildren and we will join you in your > prayers. Just remember that the Hebrew word for pray is palal and it > actually means "to judge." So let us each judge where we stand and ask if > we are in context as we beg Abba to set our children in a firm place. > > Shabbat Shalom > Web > > ------------------------------ > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/89fc1cef/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Fri Jun 12 14:06:01 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:06:01 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] prayer for children In-Reply-To: <5FCD27EE02CF4F7EBA305F7E161B9374@SEWVAC011> References: <4A32893F.5A82C.5F98@iris2.directnic.com> <5FCD27EE02CF4F7EBA305F7E161B9374@SEWVAC011> Message-ID: <683A6988138041D48AC50D515A6BEB85@bettylaptop> Stephen, your words ring so true. I have always loved the Psalm 139 and especially this section...I have gone to it time and time again for encouragement and have also referred it to others. Yes, it is remarkable taken in its historical context...HaShem's love is indeed amazing...should we not be simply overwhelmed and in awe?!!! Thanks for your meaningful response, Stephen...yes, even though our belief sets are not the same, we do have much in common to focus on...and I think that is the key that holds us together in this dialogue group. Shabbat Shalom greetings to you and Sharon and to all, Elisheva/Betty -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of stephen Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 1:57 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] prayer for children Betty, Reading your kind encouragement to pray for children and grandchildren, reminded me of what so many of us have in common, even if we find ourselves with belief sets which are not always the same. I find Psalm 139 to be an encouragement to me, when praying for my grown children, [ no grandchildren yet ]... As a man, I can only imagine the love a woman can have for her children when meditating on verses such as the following: To have a living child, formed inside your own body, and to contemplate 13-16 can not but help bring tears to the eye. For space sake I limited to 13-16 form Psalm 139 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. I find the above the more remarkable, when I consider, that David, wrote this after the sin of numbering the people of Israel. [I think - I am not a scholar ] And 70,000 men died for David's sin. I have pondered David looking upon and pondering, woman and children in Jerusalem, who had no dad's, as a consequence of his sin. Just reading Psalm 139 in that context is overwhelming. That depth of LOVE which David realized was upon him --- is upon our children, and grandchildren should we have them. Stephen "First of all, thank you so much, Joe, for beginning our round of prayers for this special day we have set aside to pray for our children and grandchildren, and also as Hanoch suggested, all of HaShem's children all over the globe. Your lovely words below and the two prayers you have included below in the Shema and the V'ahavta and the beautiful words describing Rachel weeping for her children have been special to me from the time I first read them. I think they are most moving and especially appropriate for this Shabbat. I also have a prayer that I say after I kindle the Sabbath lights each Shabbat. There are many beautiful prayers that can be found in various siddurim associated with candle lighting, but this one is the one I have chosen. It was originally given to me by a dear friend of mine and can be found in NCSY (National Conference of Synagogue Youth) Bencher. A Bencher for those of you are not familiar with the term is simply a collection of prayers and songs for Shabbat and festivals. I have taken the liberty to add a few words to make it more meaningful to me, which you may do as well. I suggest that those of us who would like can join me in this prayer this evening or sometime tomorrow. It is short, but very sweet. Ye'hi (pronounced Y'hee with a long e) ratzon, May it be Your Will, HaShem our G-D and G-D of our fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that you bless each of us here (name the people at your Shabbat table if appropriate ) along with our families who cannot be with us. and that you be gracious to us and to our children and to our grandchildren. (name them if appropriate) and to all of Your children from the four corners of the earth. crowning us all with Your Divine Presence, Your Schekinah, dwelling among us. Please help us in raising (or continuing to raise or influence as the case may be) our children and our grandchildren so that they will grow in You and will 'dazzle' the world with the sparks of Torah and Goodness. Please, HaShem, ensure that the glow of our lives will never be dimmed. Show us the glow of your face, And we will all be saved. Amein Even though our children are grown and married and often not with us for Shabbat, Roger and I still sing the Aaronic Benediction to them and to our grandchildren as a form of a prayer from afar. I have included it below along with a transliteration. The words are beautiful in Hebrew and can be chanted or simply read. Y'varech'cha Adonai, v'yishm' recha, May HaShem bless you and keep you (or watch over you) Ya-ayr Adonai panav alecha vechu neka, May HaShem shine His face towards you and be gracious to you, Yisa Adonai panav alecha, May HaShem lift up His Countenance upon you, V'yasaym l'cha shalom, And give you peace Numbers 6:24-26 May we truly join together in a mighty way as we pray for strength and wisdom in raising our children and grandchildren and may all of us and all of HaShem's children spread from the four corners of the earth be blessed with a deeper knowledge of His Presence. May He indeed dwell among us in these last days! Shabbat Shalom Chaverim! Elisheva/Betty" _______________________________________________ From bkgivin at verizon.net Fri Jun 12 16:36:05 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:36:05 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] prayer for children In-Reply-To: <855590370906121258x2593f6adw32ecc9e5ed68f976@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A32893F.5A82C.5F98@iris2.directnic.com> <5FCD27EE02CF4F7EBA305F7E161B9374@SEWVAC011> <855590370906121258x2593f6adw32ecc9e5ed68f976@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <75474268C05342DFA2A315ABA2A8821B@bettylaptop> Thank you, Web for such a moving, heart rending testimony about community! The photo of your daughter, Selah and Josh kindling Sabbath lights at John Hully's house was beautiful and indeed bears testimony to your story. May HaShem continue to bless you and yours and all of us with our children as we pray (judge) where we stand to see where we are and if we are where we need to be. Shabbat Shalom! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Hanoch Young Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:58 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] prayer for children Hey Web, Beautifully written, and painfully true...on all counts. After meeting the Beth Lechem community in North Carolina, I have been filled with the desire to tell all of my cousins to come together! It's only with, and through a community that you can live a lifestyle of Torah, and your community IS the example of that. Web, thanks for writing this...and I hope that people really take it to heart. I hope that Selah and Josh have a chance to spend some time with Ayala at the dig. I'm sure they will all have an amazing experience. Maybe during next summer's dig - B'Ezrat HaShem (with G-d's help), we can be the host for Shabbat. :-) Shabbat Shalom Web, and to all of Beth Lechem! Hanoch On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Web Hulon wrote: Shalom all, We at Beth Lechem will pray for all of the children as we place our hands on the heads of our sons and daughters tonight and bless them that they might be like our faithful fathers and mothers of old. But I must also add that an example is a much greater blessing than words alone. Don't just speak of the Torah, but live the Torah. Your words will carry much more weight. We insist that our teachings and understandings be in context. How wonderful if we too were in context. Yisrael is a people, not an idea or a religion. We can't be the example that our children need if we remain alone. Find Yisrael and love them face to face. This is context. Do whatever you must do to be in context. Move. Quit your job. Forsake your security. This is how it all started with Avraham. If you really want to bless your children show them what it means to be a part of Yisrael rather than apart from Yisrael. And because northing speaks louder than a true witness, I will give you one. Sofiyah is a lady in our community. We met her at a conference in Pennsylvania in 2001. Within a year she had left behing the place of her birth, her siblings, her grown children and her grandchildren to come be a part of our community. She said that YHWH's children would be her children. A couple of years ago her daughter Sharon came for a visit. She saw the Torah lived out in a people. A year ago she and her husband Dave left behind children and grandchildren, a business and house that was paid for to come be a part of our community. A few months later their son Josh came to visit. He never went back. He arrived in Yisrael this afternoon with my daughter Selah to work with James on the Mt. Zion dig. We just received a photo of them kindling the Sabbath lights at John Hulley's house. Josh is there because Sofiyah was willing to pull up her tent pegs. This is her reward and it rewards us all. Pray for your children and granchildren and we will join you in your prayers. Just remember that the Hebrew word for pray is palal and it actually means "to judge." So let us each judge where we stand and ask if we are in context as we beg Abba to set our children in a firm place. Shabbat Shalom Web _____ Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/ea1686eb/attachment.html From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 16:41:54 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:41:54 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. In-Reply-To: References: <4A31D9EB.4090906@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906121441v288a51b0g34b7ca864b3b56b0@mail.gmail.com> Shalom everyone! I have just now had the opportunity to read the emails. I have much to reread and mediate upon before Shabbat. Each one of you has added something so special. I know that HaShem is already guiding us in this effort for our children and for all His children. Baruch HaShem! I thank HaShem for each one of you, for the "One Heart" of this group, for the inspiration that you share, and for the opportunity to come together to pray for our children. We are truly blessed. May our prayers be be to HaShem as a sweet fragrance. May His Wisdom fill our minds and His Light emit from our hearts. Shabbat Shalom! Kim Ma 2009/6/12 patricia robbins > What a wonderful note, Joe! Thank you, and we will be extending your > beautiful and powerful prayers as Shabbat begins here. > > Shabbat Shalom to all, > > Avigail > > ------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:30:35 +1000 > From: jid at westnet.com.au > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. > > *Shalom Hannah and chaverim, > > Shabbat is on our doorstep in Australia. > I wanted to start the ball rolling and then pass the baton to other members > on the dialogue as this prayer chain revolves around the globe and > culminates with the vast majority of you in the USA. > > The world has become very dark indeed. Our children offer that glimmer of > light and hatikva. They are the harvest of our sowing. Not only our > biological children but our spiritual ones as well. > > The day that we are born , that split second when we breathe our first gasp > of air, we are one second closer to the moment when we breathe our last gasp > at death. Our most precious commodity in life is time. It is limited. > So the most precious gift that we can give of ourselves is our time. The > time we share with our children and our dependents is commensurate to how we > shape their world. > Gold and silver cannot measure with time. Time is our very life. > > So as we pray , remember the time that HaShem has invested in us and may we > in turn selflessly give to all the needy, the hungry, the thirsty, the > lonely, those in the prison of life, those afflicted with bondage and those > that are hurting requiring healing. > > This is the great commission of Avinu Malcheinu Shebashamayim. > Our love for Him is reflected in how we love one another. > > * > *?* ??????, ??????????: ?????? ??????????, ?????? ?????. *4* Hear, O > Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. *?* ???????????, ??? ?????? > ?????????, ??????-???????? ???????-?????????, ???????-????????. *5* And > thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, > and with all thy might. *?* ??????? ??????????? ????????, ?????? ??????? > ????????? ???????--???-????????. *6* And these words, which I command thee > this day, shall be upon thy heart; *?* ?????????????? ?????????, > ???????????? ????, ????????????? ?????????? ????????????? ?????????, > ?????????????? ???????????. *7* *and thou shalt teach them diligently unto > thy children*, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and > when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest > up. *?* ????????????? ??????, ???-??????; ??????? ?????????, ????? > ????????. *8* And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they > shall be for frontlets between thine eyes. *?* ???????????? ???-???????? > ????????, ??????????????. {?} *9* And thou shalt write them upon the > door-posts of thy house, and upon thy gates. *{S}* > *I would also like to add a special prayer for the lost children of HaShem > to come home into the waiting arms of Our Compassionate and Merciful Abba. > *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vBITFtyR7w&feature=related > * > > ?? ???? ????? ??????, ???? ???????? ???????? ????? ?????? > ???????????--?????, ???????? ???-????????; ??????? ?????????? ???-????????, > ???? ?????????. {?} 14 Thus saith the LORD: A voice is heard in Ramah, > lamentation, and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children; she > refuseth to be comforted for her children, because they are not. {S} ?? ???? > ????? ??????, ??????? ??????? ????????, ???????????, ??????????: ???? ???? > ?????? ????????????? ?????-??????, ???????? ??????? ??????. 15 Thus saith > the LORD: Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears; for thy > work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come back from the > land of the enemy. ?? ??????-???????? ?????????????, ?????-??????; > ???????? ??????, ??????????. {?} 16 And there is hope for thy future, > saith the LORD; and thy children shall return to their own border. {S} > > > > * > http://www.aish.com/movies/beautifulworld.asp > *Shabbat Shalom > JOE. > * > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/47f183bd/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Fri Jun 12 16:52:34 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:52:34 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] prayer for children In-Reply-To: References: <4A32893F.5A82C.5F98@iris2.directnic.com> <5FCD27EE02CF4F7EBA305F7E161B9374@SEWVAC011> Message-ID: Thanks for the most lovely post Web. Please pass this on to the SWW with the photo... Shabbat Shalom! James On Jun 12, 2009, at 3:36 PM, Web Hulon wrote: > Shalom all, > We at Beth Lechem will pray for all of the children as we place our > hands on the heads of our sons and daughters tonight and bless them > that they might be like our faithful fathers and mothers of old. > > But I must also add that an example is a much greater blessing than > words alone. Don't just speak of the Torah, but live the Torah. > Your words will carry much more weight. > > We insist that our teachings and understandings be in context. How > wonderful if we too were in context. Yisrael is a people, not an > idea or a religion. We can't be the example that our children need > if we remain alone. Find Yisrael and love them face to face. This > is context. Do whatever you must do to be in context. Move. Quit > your job. Forsake your security. This is how it all started with > Avraham. > > If you really want to bless your children show them what it means to > be a part of Yisrael rather than apart from Yisrael. And because > northing speaks louder than a true witness, I will give you one. > > Sofiyah is a lady in our community. We met her at a conference in > Pennsylvania in 2001. Within a year she had left behing the place > of her birth, her siblings, her grown children and her grandchildren > to come be a part of our community. She said that YHWH's children > would be her children. > > A couple of years ago her daughter Sharon came for a visit. She saw > the Torah lived out in a people. A year ago she and her husband > Dave left behind children and grandchildren, a business and house > that was paid for to come be a part of our community. > > A few months later their son Josh came to visit. He never went > back. He arrived in Yisrael this afternoon with my daughter Selah > to work with James on the Mt. Zion dig. We just received a photo of > them kindling the Sabbath lights at John Hulley's house. Josh is > there because Sofiyah was willing to pull up her tent pegs. This is > her reward and it rewards us all. > > Pray for your children and granchildren and we will join you in your > prayers. Just remember that the Hebrew word for pray is palal and > it actually means "to judge." So let us each judge where we stand > and ask if we are in context as we beg Abba to set our children in a > firm place. > > Shabbat Shalom > Web > > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. shalom.jpg>_______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/2b9785ae/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Fri Jun 12 18:17:44 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:17:44 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] prayer for children In-Reply-To: <683A6988138041D48AC50D515A6BEB85@bettylaptop> References: <4A32893F.5A82C.5F98@iris2.directnic.com> <5FCD27EE02CF4F7EBA305F7E161B9374@SEWVAC011> <683A6988138041D48AC50D515A6BEB85@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <4A32E218.6010709@mts.net> Betty and all who are so taken up about this prayer time, which I endorse and want to take part in. About all that it seems to me though, that I can do for my children and grand children is to pray for them every day, with one exception. Betty you recently asked me about Jamie my 16 year old grand son. The day before yesterday I had a reason to go and take him out for coffee, ( well it was not coffee) we went to Tim Hortons. He had offered to do some typing for me. But, although at this point Jamie is being persuaded to Christianity, all his friends, and his foster parents are Christians. But, I am persuaded in my heart that he has tasted enough of Judaism, ( he is still reading Rabbi Nachmans stories etc. ) And the warmth I felt from his heart to mine, and from my heart to his, Baruch Hashem. I don't think he will ever really be a true Christian at all. But he voluntarily asked me to pray for him. Some of my other grandchildren will say, "they are praying for me". As, of course in their training, I am seen as a black sheep. We too, are in good relationship, but it is so different with Jamie. May he one day help bring the whole family together, is my sincere prayer, and for all of us. Shabat Shalom Betty K Givin wrote: > Stephen, your words ring so true. I have always loved the Psalm 139 and > especially this section...I have gone to it time and time again for > encouragement and have also referred it to others. > > Yes, it is remarkable taken in its historical context...HaShem's love is > indeed amazing...should we not be simply overwhelmed and in awe?!!! > > Thanks for your meaningful response, Stephen...yes, even though our belief > sets are not the same, we do have much in common to focus on...and I think > that is the key that holds us together in this dialogue group. > > Shabbat Shalom greetings to you and Sharon and to all, > > Elisheva/Betty > > -----Original Message----- > From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org > [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of stephen > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 1:57 PM > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Dialogue] prayer for children > > > Betty, > > Reading your kind encouragement to pray for children and grandchildren, > reminded me of what so many of us have in common, even if we find > > ourselves with belief sets which are not always the same. > > I find Psalm 139 to be an encouragement to me, when praying for my > grown children, [ no grandchildren yet ]... > > As a man, I can only imagine the love a woman can have for her children > when meditating on verses such as the following: To have a living child, > formed inside your own body, and to contemplate 13-16 can not but help > bring tears to the eye. > > For space sake I limited to 13-16 form Psalm 139 > > For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. > I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are > thy works; > and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, > when I was made in secret, > and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see > my substance, yet being unperfect; > and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were > fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. > > I find the above the more remarkable, when I consider, that David, wrote > this after the sin of > numbering the people of Israel. [I think - I am not a scholar ] And 70,000 > men died for David's sin. > I have pondered David looking > upon and pondering, woman and children in Jerusalem, who had no dad's, as a > consequence of his > sin. Just reading Psalm 139 in that context is overwhelming. That depth > of LOVE which David realized > was upon him --- is upon our children, and grandchildren should we have > them. > > Stephen > > > "First of all, thank you so much, Joe, for beginning our round of prayers > for > this special day we have set aside to pray for our children and > grandchildren, and also as Hanoch suggested, all of HaShem's children all > over the globe. Your lovely words below and the two prayers you have > included below in the Shema and the V'ahavta and the beautiful words > describing Rachel weeping for her children have been special to me from the > time I first read them. I think they are most moving and especially > appropriate for this Shabbat. > > > > I also have a prayer that I say after I kindle the Sabbath lights each > Shabbat. There are many beautiful prayers that can be found in various > siddurim associated with candle lighting, but this one is the one I have > chosen. It was originally given to me by a dear friend of mine and can be > found in NCSY (National Conference of Synagogue Youth) Bencher. A Bencher > for those of you are not familiar with the term is simply a collection of > prayers and songs for Shabbat and festivals. I have taken the liberty to > add a few words to make it more meaningful to me, which you may do as well. > I suggest that those of us who would like can join me in this prayer this > evening or sometime tomorrow. It is short, but very sweet. > > Ye'hi (pronounced Y'hee with a long e) ratzon, > > May it be Your Will, HaShem our G-D and G-D of our fathers, Abraham, Isaac > and Jacob, > > that you bless each of us here > > (name the people at your Shabbat table if appropriate ) > > along with our families who cannot be with us. and that you be gracious to > us > > and to our children and to our grandchildren. > > (name them if appropriate) > > and to all of Your children from the four corners of the earth. > > crowning us all with Your Divine Presence, Your Schekinah, dwelling among > us. > > Please help us in raising (or continuing to raise or influence as the case > may be) our children and our grandchildren > > so that they will grow in You and will 'dazzle' the world with the sparks > of > Torah and Goodness. > > Please, HaShem, ensure that the glow of our lives will never be dimmed. > > Show us the glow of your face, > > And we will all be saved. Amein > > Even though our children are grown and married and often not with us for > Shabbat, Roger and I still sing the Aaronic Benediction to them and to our > grandchildren as a form of a prayer from afar. I have included it below > along with a transliteration. The words are beautiful in Hebrew and can be > chanted or simply read. > > > Y'varech'cha Adonai, v'yishm' recha, > > May HaShem bless you and keep you (or watch over you) > > Ya-ayr Adonai panav alecha vechu neka, > > May HaShem shine His face towards you and be gracious to you, > > Yisa Adonai panav alecha, > > May HaShem lift up His Countenance upon you, > > V'yasaym l'cha shalom, > > And give you peace > Numbers 6:24-26 > > > May we truly join together in a mighty way as we pray for strength and > wisdom in raising our children and grandchildren and may all of us and all > of HaShem's children spread from the four corners of the earth be blessed > with a deeper knowledge of His Presence. May He indeed dwell among us in > these last days! > Shabbat Shalom Chaverim! > Elisheva/Betty" > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 18:41:49 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:41:49 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] prayer for children In-Reply-To: <4A32E218.6010709@mts.net> References: <4A32893F.5A82C.5F98@iris2.directnic.com> <5FCD27EE02CF4F7EBA305F7E161B9374@SEWVAC011> <683A6988138041D48AC50D515A6BEB85@bettylaptop> <4A32E218.6010709@mts.net> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906121641n6b968cc9h3d4c618aa2cdf60b@mail.gmail.com> Cornie, I will be praying for Jamie tonight...two from a family, right? Kim On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Cornie Reimer wrote: > Betty and all who are so taken up about this prayer time, which I endorse > and want to take part in. About all that it seems to me though, that I can > do for my children and grand children is to pray for them every day, with > one exception. Betty you recently asked me about Jamie my 16 year old grand > son. The day before yesterday I had a reason to go and take him out for > coffee, ( well it was not coffee) we went to Tim Hortons. He had > offered to do some typing for me. But, although at this point Jamie is being > persuaded to Christianity, all his friends, and his foster parents are > Christians. But, I am persuaded in my heart that he has tasted enough of > Judaism, ( he is still reading Rabbi Nachmans stories etc. ) And the warmth > I felt from his heart to mine, and from my heart to his, Baruch Hashem. I > don't think he will ever really be a true Christian at all. But he > voluntarily asked me to pray for him. Some of my other grandchildren will > say, "they are praying for me". As, of course in their training, I am seen > as a black sheep. We too, are in good relationship, but it is so different > with Jamie. May he one day help bring the whole family together, is my > sincere prayer, and for all of us. > > Shabat Shalom > > > > > Betty K Givin wrote: > >> Stephen, your words ring so true. I have always loved the Psalm 139 and >> especially this section...I have gone to it time and time again for >> encouragement and have also referred it to others. Yes, it is remarkable >> taken in its historical context...HaShem's love is >> indeed amazing...should we not be simply overwhelmed and in awe?!!! >> >> Thanks for your meaningful response, Stephen...yes, even though our belief >> sets are not the same, we do have much in common to focus on...and I think >> that is the key that holds us together in this dialogue group. >> >> Shabbat Shalom greetings to you and Sharon and to all, >> >> Elisheva/Betty >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org >> [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of stephen >> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 1:57 PM >> To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org >> Subject: [Dialogue] prayer for children >> >> >> > > > > Betty, >> >> Reading your kind encouragement to pray for children and grandchildren, >> reminded me of what so many of us have in common, even if we find >> ourselves with belief sets which are not always the same. >> >> I find Psalm 139 to be an encouragement to me, when praying for my >> grown children, [ no grandchildren yet ]... >> >> As a man, I can only imagine the love a woman can have for her children >> when meditating on verses such as the following: To have a living child, >> formed inside your own body, and to contemplate 13-16 can not but help >> bring tears to the eye. >> >> For space sake I limited to 13-16 form Psalm 139 >> >> For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's >> womb. >> I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are >> thy works; >> and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, >> when I was made in secret, >> and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see >> my substance, yet being unperfect; >> and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were >> fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. >> >> I find the above the more remarkable, when I consider, that David, wrote >> this after the sin of >> numbering the people of Israel. [I think - I am not a scholar ] And >> 70,000 men died for David's sin. >> I have pondered David looking >> upon and pondering, woman and children in Jerusalem, who had no dad's, as >> a consequence of his >> sin. Just reading Psalm 139 in that context is overwhelming. That depth >> of LOVE which David realized >> was upon him --- is upon our children, and grandchildren should we have >> them. >> >> Stephen >> >> >> "First of all, thank you so much, Joe, for beginning our round of prayers >> for >> this special day we have set aside to pray for our children and >> grandchildren, and also as Hanoch suggested, all of HaShem's children all >> over the globe. Your lovely words below and the two prayers you have >> included below in the Shema and the V'ahavta and the beautiful words >> describing Rachel weeping for her children have been special to me from >> the >> time I first read them. I think they are most moving and especially >> appropriate for this Shabbat. >> >> >> >> I also have a prayer that I say after I kindle the Sabbath lights each >> Shabbat. There are many beautiful prayers that can be found in various >> siddurim associated with candle lighting, but this one is the one I have >> chosen. It was originally given to me by a dear friend of mine and can be >> found in NCSY (National Conference of Synagogue Youth) Bencher. A >> Bencher >> for those of you are not familiar with the term is simply a collection of >> prayers and songs for Shabbat and festivals. I have taken the liberty to >> add a few words to make it more meaningful to me, which you may do as >> well. >> I suggest that those of us who would like can join me in this prayer this >> evening or sometime tomorrow. It is short, but very sweet. >> >> Ye'hi (pronounced Y'hee with a long e) ratzon, >> >> May it be Your Will, HaShem our G-D and G-D of our fathers, Abraham, >> Isaac >> and Jacob, >> >> that you bless each of us here >> >> (name the people at your Shabbat table if appropriate ) >> >> along with our families who cannot be with us. and that you be gracious >> to >> us >> >> and to our children and to our grandchildren. >> >> (name them if appropriate) >> >> and to all of Your children from the four corners of the earth. >> >> crowning us all with Your Divine Presence, Your Schekinah, dwelling among >> us. >> >> Please help us in raising (or continuing to raise or influence as the >> case >> may be) our children and our grandchildren >> >> so that they will grow in You and will 'dazzle' the world with the sparks >> of >> Torah and Goodness. >> >> Please, HaShem, ensure that the glow of our lives will never be dimmed. >> >> Show us the glow of your face, >> >> And we will all be saved. Amein >> >> Even though our children are grown and married and often not with us for >> Shabbat, Roger and I still sing the Aaronic Benediction to them and to our >> grandchildren as a form of a prayer from afar. I have included it below >> along with a transliteration. The words are beautiful in Hebrew and can >> be >> chanted or simply read. >> >> >> Y'varech'cha Adonai, v'yishm' recha, >> >> May HaShem bless you and keep you (or watch over you) >> >> Ya-ayr Adonai panav alecha vechu neka, >> >> May HaShem shine His face towards you and be gracious to you, >> >> Yisa Adonai panav alecha, >> >> May HaShem lift up His Countenance upon you, >> >> V'yasaym l'cha shalom, >> >> And give you peace >> Numbers 6:24-26 >> >> >> May we truly join together in a mighty way as we pray for strength and >> wisdom in raising our children and grandchildren and may all of us and >> all >> of HaShem's children spread from the four corners of the earth be blessed >> with a deeper knowledge of His Presence. May He indeed dwell among us in >> these last days! >> Shabbat Shalom Chaverim! >> Elisheva/Betty" >> _______________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/954c21f9/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Fri Jun 12 22:30:45 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:30:45 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] prayer for children In-Reply-To: <1c8dbb6e0906121641n6b968cc9h3d4c618aa2cdf60b@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A32893F.5A82C.5F98@iris2.directnic.com> <5FCD27EE02CF4F7EBA305F7E161B9374@SEWVAC011> <683A6988138041D48AC50D515A6BEB85@bettylaptop> <4A32E218.6010709@mts.net> <1c8dbb6e0906121641n6b968cc9h3d4c618aa2cdf60b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Right Kim, two from a family.I will be praying for Jamie too, Cornie. Thank you so much for sharing Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of kim alvarado Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 6:42 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] prayer for children Cornie, I will be praying for Jamie tonight...two from a family, right? Kim On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Cornie Reimer wrote: Betty and all who are so taken up about this prayer time, which I endorse and want to take part in. About all that it seems to me though, that I can do for my children and grand children is to pray for them every day, with one exception. Betty you recently asked me about Jamie my 16 year old grand son. The day before yesterday I had a reason to go and take him out for coffee, ( well it was not coffee) we went to Tim Hortons. He had offered to do some typing for me. But, although at this point Jamie is being persuaded to Christianity, all his friends, and his foster parents are Christians. But, I am persuaded in my heart that he has tasted enough of Judaism, ( he is still reading Rabbi Nachmans stories etc. ) And the warmth I felt from his heart to mine, and from my heart to his, Baruch Hashem. I don't think he will ever really be a true Christian at all. But he voluntarily asked me to pray for him. Some of my other grandchildren will say, "they are praying for me". As, of course in their training, I am seen as a black sheep. We too, are in good relationship, but it is so different with Jamie. May he one day help bring the whole family together, is my sincere prayer, and for all of us. Shabat Shalom Betty K Givin wrote: Stephen, your words ring so true. I have always loved the Psalm 139 and especially this section...I have gone to it time and time again for encouragement and have also referred it to others. Yes, it is remarkable taken in its historical context...HaShem's love is indeed amazing...should we not be simply overwhelmed and in awe?!!! Thanks for your meaningful response, Stephen...yes, even though our belief sets are not the same, we do have much in common to focus on...and I think that is the key that holds us together in this dialogue group. Shabbat Shalom greetings to you and Sharon and to all, Elisheva/Betty -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of stephen Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 1:57 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] prayer for children Betty, Reading your kind encouragement to pray for children and grandchildren, reminded me of what so many of us have in common, even if we find ourselves with belief sets which are not always the same. I find Psalm 139 to be an encouragement to me, when praying for my grown children, [ no grandchildren yet ]... As a man, I can only imagine the love a woman can have for her children when meditating on verses such as the following: To have a living child, formed inside your own body, and to contemplate 13-16 can not but help bring tears to the eye. For space sake I limited to 13-16 form Psalm 139 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. I find the above the more remarkable, when I consider, that David, wrote this after the sin of numbering the people of Israel. [I think - I am not a scholar ] And 70,000 men died for David's sin. I have pondered David looking upon and pondering, woman and children in Jerusalem, who had no dad's, as a consequence of his sin. Just reading Psalm 139 in that context is overwhelming. That depth of LOVE which David realized was upon him --- is upon our children, and grandchildren should we have them. Stephen "First of all, thank you so much, Joe, for beginning our round of prayers for this special day we have set aside to pray for our children and grandchildren, and also as Hanoch suggested, all of HaShem's children all over the globe. Your lovely words below and the two prayers you have included below in the Shema and the V'ahavta and the beautiful words describing Rachel weeping for her children have been special to me from the time I first read them. I think they are most moving and especially appropriate for this Shabbat. I also have a prayer that I say after I kindle the Sabbath lights each Shabbat. There are many beautiful prayers that can be found in various siddurim associated with candle lighting, but this one is the one I have chosen. It was originally given to me by a dear friend of mine and can be found in NCSY (National Conference of Synagogue Youth) Bencher. A Bencher for those of you are not familiar with the term is simply a collection of prayers and songs for Shabbat and festivals. I have taken the liberty to add a few words to make it more meaningful to me, which you may do as well. I suggest that those of us who would like can join me in this prayer this evening or sometime tomorrow. It is short, but very sweet. Ye'hi (pronounced Y'hee with a long e) ratzon, May it be Your Will, HaShem our G-D and G-D of our fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that you bless each of us here (name the people at your Shabbat table if appropriate ) along with our families who cannot be with us. and that you be gracious to us and to our children and to our grandchildren. (name them if appropriate) and to all of Your children from the four corners of the earth. crowning us all with Your Divine Presence, Your Schekinah, dwelling among us. Please help us in raising (or continuing to raise or influence as the case may be) our children and our grandchildren so that they will grow in You and will 'dazzle' the world with the sparks of Torah and Goodness. Please, HaShem, ensure that the glow of our lives will never be dimmed. Show us the glow of your face, And we will all be saved. Amein Even though our children are grown and married and often not with us for Shabbat, Roger and I still sing the Aaronic Benediction to them and to our grandchildren as a form of a prayer from afar. I have included it below along with a transliteration. The words are beautiful in Hebrew and can be chanted or simply read. Y'varech'cha Adonai, v'yishm' recha, May HaShem bless you and keep you (or watch over you) Ya-ayr Adonai panav alecha vechu neka, May HaShem shine His face towards you and be gracious to you, Yisa Adonai panav alecha, May HaShem lift up His Countenance upon you, V'yasaym l'cha shalom, And give you peace Numbers 6:24-26 May we truly join together in a mighty way as we pray for strength and wisdom in raising our children and grandchildren and may all of us and all of HaShem's children spread from the four corners of the earth be blessed with a deeper knowledge of His Presence. May He indeed dwell among us in these last days! Shabbat Shalom Chaverim! Elisheva/Betty" _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090612/2030136a/attachment.html From sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au Sat Jun 13 00:55:28 2009 From: sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au (Sandra Inglis) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:55:28 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer for children Message-ID: Shalom all, I have been reading all the posts about prayer for children. While I believe what you are doing is worthwhile and I commend you for it. I wonder if it will really help. In cases where your whole family is seeking to serve and obey YeHoWaH, the children learn from the example of their parents. I also commend the lady who left everything to live in a community of believers. YeHoWaH has obviously blessed her and her family. In my case I have been praying for my children and grandchildren for many years. I taught my children to love and obey YeHoWaH, my husband taught them to do as they please. My husband does not keep the Sabbath or try to obey YeHoWaH in any way, my children have followed his example and have no respect for anything I taught them. My eldest daughter became a Christian when I was a Christian and remains a Christian today. I have tried to explain to her that Christianity is a false religion, but she does not want to listen. Her children are being taught that Christianity is truth. I pray they will come out of the false teaching and deception they are unde,r but there is not much I can do about it. My younger children have no interest in religion whatsoever. I am afraid to speak truth to my grandchildren as I believe it would cause hostility in my family. There are already enough problems in my family without causing any more. I hope your prayers are answered. May YeHoWaH be with you all. Shalom, Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/4746b7bf/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jun 13 05:17:53 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:17:53 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Living the Shema & a Prayer for children Message-ID: <4A337CD1.2080901@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/147e1d7f/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jun 13 05:18:37 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:18:37 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] "Don't interfere with the Divine Process, Mr. President"] Message-ID: <4A337CFD.3000708@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/c1e7b01d/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Hanoch Young Subject: [Dialogue] "Don't interfere with the Divine Process, Mr. President" Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:43:16 -0400 Size: 16710 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/c1e7b01d/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jun 13 05:19:01 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:19:01 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] FW: Noah today] Message-ID: <4A337D15.9050008@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/a780197a/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: susan strickland Subject: [Dialogue] FW: Noah today Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Size: 23467 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/a780197a/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jun 13 05:19:50 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:19:50 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] "Faith in G-d Key to Leadership in Israel"] Message-ID: <4A337D46.4050405@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/9e6cdfb2/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Hanoch Young Subject: [Dialogue] "Faith in G-d Key to Leadership in Israel" Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:44:43 -0400 Size: 8285 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/9e6cdfb2/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jun 13 05:20:12 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:20:12 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Anti Semitism] Message-ID: <4A337D5C.6030004@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/cf65e2e3/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unknown sender Subject: no subject Date: no date Size: 38 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/cf65e2e3/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jun 13 05:20:39 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:20:39 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.] Message-ID: <4A337D77.9050503@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/3a582ee0/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "sherry cole" Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Living the Shema. Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:45:36 -0500 Size: 22968 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/3a582ee0/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jun 13 05:20:53 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:20:53 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.]]] Message-ID: <4A337D85.1060302@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/1939c5d3/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.]] Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 06:30:16 +0000 Size: 9060 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/1939c5d3/attachment.eml From chcashmore at hotmail.com Sat Jun 13 07:00:12 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:00:12 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Headed for Mt Zion Message-ID: Stay safe James. I will be praying for you and the rest of the team, asking for safety and continued success. It's very exciting. Thank you for your work and commitment! Catherine x -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/b9401db9/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sat Jun 13 08:01:04 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 13:01:04 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer for children In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1048100828-1244898490-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1626199888-@bxe1160.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Hey Sandra, I understand your situation. My children and grandchildren are in a similar position. But I think that only makes it clearer that prayer is necessary, since YHVH is the only one who can reach them, as he did with us. Example is certainly of the utmost importance as well, as is the courage on our parts to provide it. But YHVH is the one who will make it happen because He answers the prayers of His children. Shalom sister. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Sandra Inglis" Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:55:28 To: Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer for children _______________________________________________ From rossknichols at me.com Sat Jun 13 08:41:09 2009 From: rossknichols at me.com (Ross Nichols) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 08:41:09 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Today's class Message-ID: I hope that many of you can listen in to today's class. I am feeling quite inspired. Class begins at 10:30 central. Shalom Sent from my iPhone From sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au Sat Jun 13 18:25:08 2009 From: sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au (Sandra Inglis) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:25:08 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer for children Message-ID: <9706DDB594A1460CA5A6A52D3E15B53F@SPLITPIN> Shalom, I just want to let you all know I have been praying for all our children and grandchildren and will continue to do so. May YeHoWaH hear our prayers. Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/9c0a87eb/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jun 13 18:52:44 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:52:44 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Making sense of world events Message-ID: <4A343BCC.7090504@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/4a8cadf8/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Sat Jun 13 18:59:26 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:59:26 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Parshat Sh'lach. Message-ID: <4A343D5E.3080104@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/9254ccf1/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sat Jun 13 23:22:08 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 04:22:08 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer for children In-Reply-To: <9706DDB594A1460CA5A6A52D3E15B53F@SPLITPIN> Message-ID: <061420090422.6125.4A347AEF000CD13A000017ED22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Thank you Sandra, Remember, we are seeking HaShem's guidance on how to reach our (and other's) children with Torah truth. Your ideas on this this subject would be most appreciated. Yes, I know, example is the best messenger. But we are looking for guidance on some more focused outreach. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Shalom, I just want to let you all know I have been praying for all our children and grandchildren and will continue to do so. May YeHoWaH hear our prayers. Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/83bd469e/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sat Jun 13 23:28:27 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:28:27 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer for children In-Reply-To: <9706DDB594A1460CA5A6A52D3E15B53F@SPLITPIN> References: <9706DDB594A1460CA5A6A52D3E15B53F@SPLITPIN> Message-ID: Thank you Sandra for your prayers.I am touched by your dedication.your prayers mean so much! I will continue to pray as well for all our children, including yours, and our grandchildren and great grandchildren. Yes, may HaShem hear our prayers and give us guidance! We need not ever give up. I am getting ready to send out a longer post regarding this, but wanted to respond to your note first. Love and shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Sandra Inglis Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 6:25 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Prayer for children Shalom, I just want to let you all know I have been praying for all our children and grandchildren and will continue to do so. May YeHoWaH hear our prayers. Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090613/5f58aacb/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sat Jun 13 23:34:03 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 04:34:03 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Living the Shema.]]] In-Reply-To: <4A337D85.1060302@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <061420090434.14778.4A347DBB00041ACB000039BA22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Hey Joe, It's not that important, don't worry about it. Carin and I had a great day, I hope you did as well. We weren't at the service today. We we attending a handgun safety course. It took all day, but it was good. Shavua Tov Achi. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shavua Tov Eliron, thank you for your condolences and sensitivities. I have not seen any emails from you to me personally recently on the list. Then again I may have missed them or worse again I may have accidentally deleted them. Could you possibly send them to me personally. I hope you are having a blessed and restful Shabbat with Carin and all the members at St Francisville together with Ross. Shabbat has just ended in Aussietralyah. I am looking forward to listening in on your Shabbat service and Ross's teaching on the Parshat. I encourage y'all in your prayers and devotion for the children, blessed are the children. Thank you again Achi. b'Ahavat Yehudah v'Yisrael. JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/d0b515c9/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 14 00:07:16 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 00:07:16 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" Message-ID: <740A2123A7FE46409C4FE4B71AC87C6A@bettylaptop> Shalom Chaverim, I received a PR this morning and wanted to share it and some of the circumstances and thoughts surrounding it. I apologize ahead of time for the length, but if you will take the time to wade thru it, perhaps it will be an encouragement to you as it was to me.to continue seeking HaShem and to never give up.maybe this is what it means in the Shema when it says not only to love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, but with all your strength as well.love Him with all your strength even when you don't feel that you have any strength left. Due to a lot of personal reasons that will go unnamed, I have really been struggling daily to keep my faith intact, even as a "glowing ember".not so much my faith in HaShem because I know that He is Constant.it is me that is the problem. So this time of prayer and meditation that has been put forth in our joining together to pray for guidance regarding our children, grandchildren, etc., and all of HaShem's children in "Living the Shema" has come at a very appropriate time for me, and from reading some of your comments, a very appropriate time for many of us. Some of us have young children who are still at home that need guidance; some have teenagers who are struggling with their own identify that we are trying to reach out to; some have children who having already left our homes do not follow HaShem and His Torah; some have children and families from which they are estranged; some have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren who are struggling and hurting and beset by problems that as parents we just cannot fix. Some of us are going thru the heartbreaking process of realizing that our parents have become our children.and all this hurt doesn't even include all that is going on in the lives of HaShem's children in Eretz Israel and all over the world who are beset by constant life-threatening situations and hunger and sickness.There is just so much suffering and pain and hurt in the world.sometimes it makes one just want to find a secret hiding place and retreat from it all. As I kindled the Sabbath candles last night and thought of all of us and our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren. and all of HaShem's children all over the world welcoming HaShem's Sabbath into our homes .I prayed the prayer that I had sent out to the list yesterday.and I prayed it with fervor.really meaning it.trying to see all of us thru the eyes of HaShem.and for a brief moment, in the midst of all the turmoil, I felt a sense of Sabbath peace. Yet I remember getting ready for bed last night and fighting against the negative thoughts that were trying to infiltrate my thinking.why all the suffering and hurt and problems just in our little group, why so much hurt surrounding my family, me? Why in the world can't I just get beyond myself and all of this junk and really give it up to HaShem and not take it back? Maybe I am just too weak, or worse, maybe I am deluding myself.maybe I am just no good.there are so many people that pray more, study more, do more, what good am I anyway? How can I pray for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, friends or any children when I am feeling so worthless? Does HaShem even hear my prayers when I am like this? But then I argued with myself, saying.but HaShem knows my heart and that I have loved Him since I was a little girl and He knows that I am trying to live a good life and do the right thing.I just need to get past where I am now.I just need to try harder.I know that HaShem loves me.but. I don't remember when I fell asleep, but it was sometime during the Bedtime Shema and the V'ahavta ("You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart."). When I got up this morning, I determined that I would go to shul whether I felt like it or not, and I would be determined to make this a day of prayer for what we had set before us in "Living the Shema." I did a little reading from a book that a dear friend had given me by Rabbi Avraham Greenberg based on the writings of Rabbi Nachman.I 'just happened' to open the page to a quote that said, "When words and cries don't help, cry deep in your heart without letting out a sound." That hit a chord, so I continued reading."sometimes when the crisis of faith is so great that even wordless cries cannot help, one has to cry from the heart alone." "Their heart cried out to HaShem." ( Lamentations 2:18) The author says that the "heart alone cries out to HaShem without letting out a sound." He quotes Psalms 130:1, "From the depths I call out to HaShem," from the depths of the heart. And from the depths of the heart come guidance, for like "deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man, Proverbs 20:5. When shouts and screams no longer help because faith has collapsed, one must cry from the depths of the heart without letting out a sound. This is how true counsel is revealed, he says, for "like deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man." Even though it was time for me to get dressed to go to shul, I was so moved by the passage that I felt compelled to get my tallit and pray. As I said the blessing and put it over my head, I dropped to the floor. As I knelt, I continued with the tallit blessing as I recited the beautiful and inspirational words taken from Psalms 36:8-11 from memory.with all my heart. "How precious is your loving kindness O HaShem. Your children rest under the Shadow of your Wings. May they be sated from the abundance of your House. May you feed them with the streams of Your delights. For You are the Source of all Life, and in your Light do we have Light. Extend your steadfast Love to those who know you And your righteousness to the upright in heart." I then began to "cry' from my heart.with no words.and when I got up from the floor where I had been kneeling, tears filled my eyes and I was overcome with emotion.and I felt a sort of release.it is hard to explain. As I was folding up my tallit and putting it on my bookshelf, I sensed that maybe there was something else I needed to do. Without even thinking, the words came out of my mouth."HaShem do you have a PR for me this morning?" Immediately Psalms 32:11 came into my mind. I quickly grabbed my Bible and turned to the passage, wondering if I had really "gotten" this from HaShem or if I had just made it up.I tried to push the latter from my mind..When I turned to the passage, I gasped first in disbelief, then in awe.as I read the words, beginning from 32:10b. "but he that trusts in HaShem, shall be surrounded by Love. Be glad in HaShem and rejoice, O you righteous; and shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart." I was totally amazing at the words before me.I read them over and over.as I thought of all the thoughts I had had the night before, everything began to connect.all the hurts were hurts of the heart; Who knows our heart.Who is "close to the brokenhearted and those crushed in spirit? What is the cure for all these hurts of the heart that sometimes cannot even find expression? The words in the Shema rang in my ears."You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart., "The words of the tallit blessing came to mind.and the words of the PR that HaShem had so graciously given me came to mind. When I cried to Him from the depths of my heart, He answered me. Again, I realize this is quite personal, and may appear to be self-centered. If some of you find it too personal, I apologize. I just felt compelled to share because I think that perhaps there may be others who are hurting that might be encouraged by some of the not new, but fresh realizations that have come to me this Shabbat during my times of prayer and reflection. HaShem loves each of us.with chesed, loving kindness. We can each find needed rest under the Shadow of His Wings. He is the Source of all Life and He gives us Light. He hears the cries of our hearts. If we continue to trust in Him and seek to know Him, we will find that we will be surrounded by love! He extends His righteousness to those who know Him, to the upright in heart! What should be our response to all of these wondrous promises? BE GLAD IN HASHEM AND REJOICE, O YOUR RIGHTEOUS; AND SHOUT FOR JOY, ALL YOU WHO ARE UPRIGHT IN HEART! We each know where our hearts are.may we each judge (palel) ourselves and not only pray the Shema daily, but continue to endeavor to find ways to live it with every chord of our being! Shavua tov to all on this the first day of Sabbath, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/72703df3/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 14 00:40:48 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 05:40:48 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" In-Reply-To: <740A2123A7FE46409C4FE4B71AC87C6A@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <061420090540.22400.4A348D5E000E2FB80000578022228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Elisheva, You are loved. By us yes, but more significantly by HaShem. That is really the whole point I think. It's not about religion, religion only brings division. It's about each one of us working toward a deeper relationship with HaShem. If we all concentrated on that, there would be no time for strife. I think that this is what is meant in Isaiah 62. I think you just made a quantum leap. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Shalom Chaverim, I received a PR this morning and wanted to share it and some of the circumstances and thoughts surrounding it. I apologize ahead of time for the length, but if you will take the time to wade thru it, perhaps it will be an encouragement to you as it was to me?to continue seeking HaShem and to never give up?maybe this is what it means in the Shema when it says not only to love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, but with all your strength as well?love Him with all your strength even when you don?t feel that you have any strength left? Due to a lot of personal reasons that will go unnamed, I have really been struggling daily to keep my faith intact, even as a ?glowing ember??not so much my faith in HaShem because I know that He is Constant?it is me that is the problem. So this time of prayer and meditation that has been put forth in our joining together to pray for guidance regarding our children, grandchildren, etc., and all of HaShem?s children in ?Living the Shema? has come at a very appropriate time for me, and from reading some of your comments, a very appropriate time for many of us. Some of us have young children who are still at home that need guidance; some have teenagers who are struggling with their own identify that we are trying to reach out to; some have children who having already left our homes do not follow HaShem and His Torah; some have children and families from which they are estranged; some have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren who are struggling and hurting and beset by problems that as parents we just cannot fix. Some of us are going thru the heartbreaking process of realizing that our parents have become our children?and all this hurt doesn?t even include all that is going on in the lives of HaShem?s children in Eretz Israel and all over the world who are beset by constant life-threatening situations and hunger and sickness?There is just so much suffering and pain and hurt in the world?sometimes it makes one just want to find a secret hiding place and retreat from it all? As I kindled the Sabbath candles last night and thought of all of us and our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren? and all of HaShem?s children all over the world welcoming HaShem?s Sabbath into our homes ?I prayed the prayer that I had sent out to the list yesterday?and I prayed it with fervor?really meaning it?trying to see all of us thru the eyes of HaShem?and for a brief moment, in the midst of all the turmoil, I felt a sense of Sabbath peace? Yet I remember getting ready for bed last night and fighting against the negative thoughts that were trying to infiltrate my thinking?why all the suffering and hurt and problems just in our little group, why so much hurt surrounding my family, me? Why in the world can?t I just get beyond myself and all of this junk and really give it up to HaShem and not take it back? Maybe I am just too weak, or worse, maybe I am deluding myself?maybe I am just no good?there are so many people that pray more, study more, do more, what good am I anyway? How can I pray for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, friends or any children when I am feeling so worthless? Does HaShem even hear my prayers when I am like this? But then I argued with myself, saying?but HaShem knows my heart and that I have loved Him since I was a little girl and He knows that I am trying to live a good life and do the right thing?I just need to get past where I am now?I just need to try harder?I know that HaShem loves me?but? I don?t remember when I fell asleep, but it was sometime during the Bedtime Shema and the V?ahavta (?You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart??). When I got up this morning, I determined that I would go to shul whether I felt like it or not, and I would be determined to make this a day of prayer for what we had set before us in ?Living the Shema.? I did a little reading from a book that a dear friend had given me by Rabbi Avraham Greenberg based on the writings of Rabbi Nachman?I ?just happened? to open the page to a quote that said, ?When words and cries don?t help, cry deep in your heart without letting out a sound.? That hit a chord, so I continued reading??sometimes when the crisis of faith is so great that even wordless cries cannot help, one has to cry from the heart alone.? ?Their heart cried out to HaShem.? ( Lamentations 2:18) The author says that the ?heart alone cries out to HaShem without letting out a sound.? He quotes Psalms 130:1, ?From the depths I call out to HaShem,? from the depths of the heart. And from the depths of the heart come guidance, for like ?deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man, Proverbs 20:5. When shouts and screams no longer help because faith has collapsed, one must cry from the depths of the heart without letting out a sound. This is how true counsel is revealed, he says, for ?like deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man.? Even though it was time for me to get dressed to go to shul, I was so moved by the passage that I felt compelled to get my tallit and pray. As I said the blessing and put it over my head, I dropped to the floor. As I knelt, I continued with the tallit blessing as I recited the beautiful and inspirational words taken from Psalms 36:8-11 from memory?with all my heart? ?How precious is your loving kindness O HaShem. Your children rest under the Shadow of your Wings? May they be sated from the abundance of your House? May you feed them with the streams of Your delights? For You are the Source of all Life, and in your Light do we have Light? Extend your steadfast Love to those who know you And your righteousness to the upright in heart.? I then began to ?cry? from my heart?with no words?and when I got up from the floor where I had been kneeling, tears filled my eyes and I was overcome with emotion?and I felt a sort of release?it is hard to explain. As I was folding up my tallit and putting it on my bookshelf, I sensed that maybe there was something else I needed to do. Without even thinking, the words came out of my mouth??HaShem do you have a PR for me this morning?? Immediately Psalms 32:11 came into my mind. I quickly grabbed my Bible and turned to the passage, wondering if I had really ?gotten? this from HaShem or if I had just made it up?I tried to push the latter from my mind?.When I turned to the passage, I gasped first in disbelief, then in awe?as I read the words, beginning from 32:10b? ?but he that trusts in HaShem, shall be surrounded by Love. Be glad in HaShem and rejoice, O you righteous; and shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart.? I was totally amazing at the words before me?I read them over and over?as I thought of all the thoughts I had had the night before, everything began to connect?all the hurts were hurts of the heart; Who knows our heart?Who is ?close to the brokenhearted and those crushed in spirit? What is the cure for all these hurts of the heart that sometimes cannot even find expression? The words in the Shema rang in my ears??You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart?, ?The words of the tallit blessing came to mind?and the words of the PR that HaShem had so graciously given me came to mind. When I cried to Him from the depths of my heart, He answered me. Again, I realize this is quite personal, and may appear to be self-centered. If some of you find it too personal, I apologize. I just felt compelled to share because I think that perhaps there may be others who are hurting that might be encouraged by some of the not new, but fresh realizations that have come to me this Shabbat during my times of prayer and reflection. HaShem loves each of us?with chesed, loving kindness. We can each find needed rest under the Shadow of His Wings. He is the Source of all Life and He gives us Light. He hears the cries of our hearts? If we continue to trust in Him and seek to know Him, we will find that we will be surrounded by love! He extends His righteousness to those who know Him, to the upright in heart! What should be our response to all of these wondrous promises? BE GLAD IN HASHEM AND REJOICE, O YOUR RIGHTEOUS; AND SHOUT FOR JOY, ALL YOU WHO ARE UPRIGHT IN HEART! We each know where our hearts are?may we each judge (palel) ourselves and not only pray the Shema daily, but continue to endeavor to find ways to live it with every chord of our being! Shavua tov to all on this the first day of Sabbath, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/127f5d7e/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 14 00:45:50 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 05:45:50 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Anti Semitism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <061420090545.25201.4A348E8D00090D580000627122228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Hey Marvin, Don't know if this helps. http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Semitism-History-Psychoanalysis-Contemporary-Hatred/dp/0313353840/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244958177&sr=1-1 -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "mhyde" : -------------- Hey gang, When I need information I try to seek out the smartest people I know and YOUR IT! I got into a discussion the other day after this killing at the Holocaust Museum in DC, with a Christian minister and he was at a loss to understand this Anti-Semitism that he see?s growing in the world. Now understand he would be of the opinion of most Christians, that Jews have to accept Jesus and all that but, something I believe changed in him from previous conversations we have had. You could tell from his tone of voice that he was now not making a statement but seeking information and understanding. At any rate we had a good conversation about the roots of anti-Semitism. My question to you guys. It seems to me not long ago that there was a new book published that laid this all out from the beginning down to today. As I recall this book did not only deal with the natural outward physical acts of Anti Semitism, but it laid out the biblical bases and ideals of it?s, spiritual origins. I?m looking for a book that deals with this issue from a biblical spiritual bases and naturally, I want a Jewish viewpoint and not secular or Christian one. I believe Anti Semitism is different then any other hated against a group of people, therefore the subject would have to be studied and written on form a different perspective then just doing a research on why group A does not like group B. Does anyone know of this book or another they could recommend. Shalom, Marvin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/92fb667b/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 14 01:08:42 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 01:08:42 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" In-Reply-To: <061420090540.22400.4A348D5E000E2FB80000578022228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <740A2123A7FE46409C4FE4B71AC87C6A@bettylaptop> <061420090540.22400.4A348D5E000E2FB80000578022228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: Eliron, Thank you for the affirmation of love. You pretty well wrapped up the whole point when you said, "It's about each one of us working toward a deeper relationship with HaShem. If we all concentrated on that, there would be no time for strife." A quantum leap? I surely hope so. Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty P.S. The author of the book I referred to was Rabbi Avraham Greenbaum, with whom many of us are familiar, not Greenberg. I did make the correction below. _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:41 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" Elisheva, You are loved. By us yes, but more significantly by HaShem. That is really the whole point I think. It's not about religion, religion only brings division. . If we all concentrated on that, there would be no time for strife. I think that this is what is meant in Isaiah 62. I think you just made a quantum leap. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Shalom Chaverim, I received a PR this morning and wanted to share it and some of the circumstances and thoughts surrounding it. I apologize ahead of time for the length, but if you will take the time to wade thru it, perhaps it will be an encouragement to you as it was to me.to continue seeking HaShem and to never give up.maybe this is what it means in the Shema when it says not only to love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, but with all your strength as well.love Him with all your strength even when you don't feel that you have any strength left. Due to a lot of personal reasons that will go unnamed, I have really been struggling daily to keep my faith intact, even as a "glowing ember".not so much my faith in HaShem because I know that He is Constant.it is me that is the problem. So this time of prayer and meditation that has been put forth in our joining together to pray for guidance regarding our children, grandchildren, etc., and all of HaShem's children in "Living the Shema" has come at a very appropriate time for me, and from reading some of your comments, a very appropriate time for many of us. Some of us have young children who are still at home that need guidance; some have teenagers who are struggling with their own identify that we are trying to reach out to; some have children who having already left our homes do not follow HaShem and His Torah; some have children and families from which they are estranged; some have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren who are struggling and hurting and beset by problems that as parents we just cannot fix. Some of us are going thru the heartbreaking process of realizing that our parents have become our children.and all this hurt doesn't even include all that is going on in the lives of HaShem's children in Eretz Israel and all over the world who are beset by constant life-threatening situations and hunger and sickness.There is just so much suffering and pain and hurt in the world.sometimes it makes one just want to find a secret hiding place and retreat from it all. As I kindled the Sabbath candles last night and thought of all of us and our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren. and all of HaShem's children all over the world welcoming HaShem's Sabbath into our homes .I prayed the prayer that I had sent out to the list yesterday.and I prayed it with fervor.really meaning it.trying to see all of us thru the eyes of HaShem.and for a brief moment, in the midst of all the turmoil, I felt a sense of Sabbath peace. Yet I remember getting ready for bed last night and fighting against the negative thoughts that were trying to infiltrate my thinking.why all the suffering and hurt and problems just in our little group, why so much hurt surrounding my family, me? Why in the world can't I just get beyond myself and all of this junk and really give it up to HaShem and not take it back? Maybe I am just too weak, or worse, maybe I am deluding myself.maybe I am just no good.there are so many people that pray more, study more, do more, what good am I anyway? How can I pray for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, friends or any children when I am feeling so worthless? Does HaShem even hear my prayers when I am like this? But then I argued with myself, saying.but HaShem knows my heart and that I have loved Him since I was a little girl and He knows that I am trying to live a good life and do the right thing.I just need to get past where I am now.I just need to try harder.I know that HaShem loves me.but. I don't remember when I fell asleep, but it was sometime during the Bedtime Shema and the V'ahavta ("You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart."). When I got up this morning, I determined that I would go to shul whether I felt like it or not, and I would be determined to make this a day of prayer for what we had set before us in "Living the Shema." I did a little reading from a book that a dear friend had given me by Rabbi Avraham Greenbaum based on the writings of Rabbi Nachman.I 'just happened' to open the page to a quote that said, "When words and cries don't help, cry deep in your heart without letting out a sound." That hit a chord, so I continued reading."sometimes when the crisis of faith is so great that even wordless cries cannot help, one has to cry from the heart alone." "Their heart cried out to HaShem." ( Lamentations 2:18) The author says that the "heart alone cries out to HaShem without letting out a sound." He quotes Psalms 130:1, "From the depths I call out to HaShem," from the depths of the heart. And from the depths of the heart come guidance, for like "deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man, Proverbs 20:5. When shouts and screams no longer help because faith has collapsed, one must cry from the depths of the heart without letting out a sound. This is how true counsel is revealed, he says, for "like deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man." Even though it was time for me to get dressed to go to shul, I was so moved by the passage that I felt compelled to get my tallit and pray. As I said the blessing and put it over my head, I dropped to the floor. As I knelt, I continued with the tallit blessing as I recited the beautiful and inspirational words taken from Psalms 36:8-11 from memory.with all my heart. "How precious is your loving kindness O HaShem. Your children rest under the Shadow of your Wings. May they be sated from the abundance of your House. May you feed them with the streams of Your delights. For You are the Source of all Life, and in your Light do we have Light. Extend your steadfast Love to those who know you And your righteousness to the upright in heart." I then began to "cry' from my heart.with no words.and when I got up from the floor where I had been kneeling, tears filled my eyes and I was overcome with emotion.and I felt a sort of release.it is hard to explain. As I was folding up my tallit and putting it on my bookshelf, I sensed that maybe there was something else I needed to do. Without even thinking, the words came out of my mouth."HaShem do you have a PR for me this morning?" Immediately Psalms 32:11 came into my mind. I quickly grabbed my Bible and turned to the passage, wondering if I had really "gotten" this from HaShem or if I had just made it up.I tried to push the latter from my mind..When I turned to the passage, I gasped first in disbelief, then in awe.as I read the words, beginning from 32:10b. "but he that trusts in HaShem, shall be surrounded by Love. Be glad in HaShem and rejoice, O you righteous; and shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart." I was totally amazed at the words before me.I read them over and over.as I thought of all the thoughts I had had the night before, everything began to connect.all the hurts were hurts of the heart; Who knows our heart.Who is "close to the brokenhearted and those crushed in spirit? What is the cure for all these hurts of the heart that sometimes cannot even find expression? The words in the Shema rang in my ears."You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart., "The words of the tallit blessing came to mind.and the words of the PR that HaShem had so graciously given me came to mind. When I cried to Him from the depths of my heart, He answered me. Again, I realize this is quite personal, and may appear to be self-centered. If some of you find it too personal, I apologize. I just felt compelled to share because I think that perhaps there may be others who are hurting that might be encouraged by some of the not new, but fresh realizations that have come to me this Shabbat during my times of prayer and reflection. HaShem loves each of us.with chesed, loving kindness. We can each find needed rest under the Shadow of His Wings. He is the Source of all Life and He gives us Light. He hears the cries of our hearts. If we continue to trust in Him and seek to know Him, we will find that we will be surrounded by love! He extends His righteousness to those who know Him, to the upright in heart! What should be our response to all of these wondrous promises? BE GLAD IN HASHEM AND REJOICE, O YOUR RIGHTEOUS; AND SHOUT FOR JOY, ALL YOU WHO ARE UPRIGHT IN HEART! We each know where our hearts are.may we each judge (palel) ourselves and not only pray the Shema daily, but continue to endeavor to find ways to live it with every chord of our being! Shavua tov to all on this the first day of Sabbath, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/6232e30d/attachment.html From sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au Sun Jun 14 05:10:46 2009 From: sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au (Sandra Inglis) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:10:46 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" Message-ID: <3BF5084DF2BF4FB586A6D17480B5693C@SPLITPIN> Shalom Elisheva, Thank you so much for sharing with us your prayer and the circumstances surrounding it. As I read about your circumstances and how you were feeling, it was like I was reading about myself. I have also been struggling daily to keep my faith in tact and have been feeling like I could not pray for anyone not even myself. I am encouraged by your prayers and the prayers of everyone here. I am glad YeHoWaH has answered you and given you comfort and joy. I pray He will continually lift your spirit and give you strength to endure. May YeHoWaH be with us all and give us the answers we seek, as we seek to serve Him with our whole heart. Shalom, Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/01194156/attachment.html From sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au Sun Jun 14 05:21:37 2009 From: sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au (Sandra Inglis) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:21:37 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer for children Message-ID: Shalom Eliron, I want to thank you for your encouraging words. It was your message that gave me the courage to pray. I was feeling that I could not pray, you helped me to see that my prayers are worthwhile. Shalom, Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/46f6190d/attachment.html From sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au Sun Jun 14 06:09:07 2009 From: sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au (Sandra Inglis) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:09:07 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Message-ID: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN> Children's songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH's love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children's books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children's page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/05c0df4f/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Sun Jun 14 07:30:43 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (Margie Creech) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 05:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Message-ID: <788216.18309.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Sandra, When my youngest?son and?daughter were growing up I would sing?verses?from the Bible to them over and over.? When my daughter was 2 years old she knew more Torah by heart than I could ever hope to know.? When?we are young our?memories are much better than when?we are older.? I read an article that if you?read/say something three times a day that after six weeks it is yours forever.? I would do this with?them in school as well.? At the end of six weeks they knew Isaiah 53 and many?other chapters?over time?by heart.? I?cannot tell you how my heart would soar as I would listen to them?recite these scriptures.? I can remember standing by the back door and?hear my daughter singing scriptures to her dolls.? Now she is far away from?HaShem but I know that?His?Word is buried deep in her heart and that the day is coming?when He will cause?His Word to the surface.? Although my son was so hyper that?he didn't?have the same ease as she did with memorizing but?I know that His Word?is?planted deep in his heart too.??His Word is ?powerful and will not be made void. You?have made an eternal difference in your children's lives and now?passing it on to the next generation.?????YeHoWaH is beyond any words that I could use to express His greatness!? You have my continued prayers. ? Margie --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Sandra Inglis wrote: From: Sandra Inglis Subject: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 6:09 AM Children?s songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH?s love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. ? Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children?s books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. ? When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. ? You could have a children?s page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. ? These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. ? Sandra. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/76c2a64d/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Sun Jun 14 08:45:55 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (creechmargie at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 06:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" Message-ID: <21011.81944.qm@web58506.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Betty, Thank you!? I relate so much.? Especially to the part I have copied below.? I?wrestle with with the thoughts of negativity. I sometime think ?maybe I'm just fooing myself?and I'm nothing more than a fake.? I appreciate your willingness to share.? It always helps to find out your not the only one. It will be so good to be gathered together someday.? ? I pray HaShem will bless you this week and I am still praying for that teaching position. ? Margie ? and fighting against the negative thoughts that were trying to infiltrate my thinking?why all the suffering and hurt and problems just in our little group, why so much hurt surrounding my family, me?? Why in the world can?t I just get beyond myself and all of this junk and really give it up to HaShem and not take it back?? Maybe I am just too weak, or worse, maybe I am deluding myself?maybe I am just no good?there are so many people that pray more, study more, do more, what good am I anyway?? ?How can I pray for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, friends or any children when I am feeling so worthless? Does HaShem even hear my prayers when I am like this? ?But then I argued with myself, saying?but HaShem knows my heart and that I have loved Him since I was a little girl and He knows that I am trying to live a good life and do the right thing?I just need to get past where I am now?I just need to try harder?I know that HaShem loves me?but? ? ? --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 12:07 AM Shalom Chaverim, ? I received a PR this morning and wanted to share it and some of the circumstances and thoughts surrounding it.? I apologize ahead of time for the length, but if you will take the time to wade thru it, perhaps it will be an encouragement to you as it was to me?to continue seeking HaShem and to never give up?maybe this is what it means in the Shema when it says not only to love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, but with all your strength as well?love Him with all your strength even when you don?t feel that you have any strength left? ? Due to a lot of personal reasons that will go unnamed, I have really been struggling daily to keep my faith intact, even as a ?glowing ember??not so much my faith in HaShem because I know that He is Constant?it is me that is the problem. ?So this time of prayer and meditation that has been put forth in our joining together to pray for guidance regarding our children, grandchildren, etc., and all of HaShem?s children in ?Living the Shema? has come at a very appropriate time for me, and from reading some of your comments, a very appropriate time for many of us.? ? Some of us have young children who are still at home that need guidance; some have teenagers who are struggling with their own identify that we are trying to reach out to; some have children who having already left our homes do not follow HaShem and His Torah; some have children and families from which they are estranged; some have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren who are struggling and hurting and beset by problems that as parents we just cannot fix.? Some of us are going thru the heartbreaking process of realizing that our parents have become our children?and all this hurt doesn?t even include all that is going on in the lives of HaShem?s children in Eretz Israel and all over the world who are beset by constant life-threatening situations and hunger and sickness?There is just so much suffering and pain and hurt in the world?sometimes it makes one just want to find a secret hiding place and retreat from it all? ? As I kindled the Sabbath candles last night and thought of all of us and our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren? and all of HaShem?s children all over the world welcoming HaShem?s Sabbath into our homes ?I prayed the prayer that I had sent out to the list yesterday?and I prayed it with fervor?really meaning it?trying to see all of us thru the eyes of HaShem?and for a brief moment, in the midst of all the turmoil, I felt a sense of Sabbath peace? ? Yet I remember getting ready for bed last night and fighting against the negative thoughts that were trying to infiltrate my thinking?why all the suffering and hurt and problems just in our little group, why so much hurt surrounding my family, me?? Why in the world can?t I just get beyond myself and all of this junk and really give it up to HaShem and not take it back?? Maybe I am just too weak, or worse, maybe I am deluding myself?maybe I am just no good?there are so many people that pray more, study more, do more, what good am I anyway?? ?How can I pray for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, friends or any children when I am feeling so worthless? Does HaShem even hear my prayers when I am like this? ?But then I argued with myself, saying?but HaShem knows my heart and that I have loved Him since I was a little girl and He knows that I am trying to live a good life and do the right thing?I just need to get past where I am now?I just need to try harder?I know that HaShem loves me?but? ? I don?t remember when I fell asleep, but it was sometime during the Bedtime Shema and the V?ahavta (?You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart??). ? When I got up this morning, I determined that I would go to shul whether I felt like it or not, and I would be determined to make this a day of prayer for what we had set before us in ?Living the Shema.?? I did a little reading from a book that a dear friend had given me by Rabbi Avraham Greenberg based on the writings of Rabbi Nachman?I ?just happened? to open the page to a quote that said, ?When words and cries don?t help, cry deep in your heart without letting out a sound.?? ? ? That hit a chord, so I continued reading??sometimes when the crisis of faith is so great that even wordless cries cannot help, one has to cry from the heart alone.? ??Their heart cried out to HaShem.?? ( Lamentations 2:18) ? The author says that the ?heart alone cries out to HaShem without letting out a sound.?? He quotes Psalms 130:1, ?From the depths I call out to HaShem,? from the depths of the heart.? And from the depths of the heart come guidance, for like ?deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man, Proverbs 20:5.? When shouts and screams no longer help because faith has collapsed, one must cry from the depths of the heart without letting out a sound.? This is how true counsel is revealed, he says, for ?like deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man.?? ? Even though it was time for me to get dressed to go to shul, I was so moved by the passage that I felt compelled to get my tallit and pray. As I said the blessing and put it over my head, I dropped to the floor.? As I knelt, I continued with the tallit blessing as I recited the beautiful and inspirational words taken from Psalms 36:8-11 from memory?with all my heart? ?How precious is your loving kindness O HaShem.?? Your children rest under the Shadow of your Wings? May they be sated from the abundance of your House? May you feed them with the streams of Your delights? For You are the Source of all Life, and in your Light do we have Light? Extend your steadfast Love to those who know you ?And your righteousness to the upright in heart.? ? I then began to ?cry? from my heart?with no words?and when I got up from the floor where I had been kneeling, tears filled my eyes and I was overcome with emotion?and I felt a sort of release?it is hard to explain.? As I was folding up my tallit and putting it on my bookshelf, I sensed that maybe there was something else I needed to do.? Without even thinking, the words came out of my mouth??HaShem do you have a PR for me this morning?? ? Immediately Psalms 32:11 came into my mind.? I quickly grabbed my Bible and turned to the passage, wondering if I had really ?gotten? this from HaShem or if I had just made it up?I tried to push the latter from my mind?.When I turned to the passage, I gasped first in disbelief, then in awe?as I read the words, beginning from 32:10b?? ?but he that trusts in HaShem, shall be surrounded by Love.? Be glad in HaShem and rejoice, O you righteous; and shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart.? ? I was totally amazing at the words before me?I read them over and over?as I thought of all the thoughts I had had the night before, everything began to connect?all the hurts were hurts of the heart;? Who knows our heart?Who is ?close to the brokenhearted and those crushed in spirit? ?What is the cure for all these hurts of the heart that sometimes cannot even find expression? ?The words in the Shema rang in my ears??You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart?, ?The words of the tallit blessing came to mind?and the words of the PR that HaShem had so graciously given me came to mind.? When I cried to Him from the depths of my heart, He answered me. ? Again, I realize this is quite personal, and may appear to be self-centered.? If some of you find it too personal, I apologize. I just felt compelled to share because I think that perhaps there may be others who are hurting that might be encouraged by some of the not new, but fresh realizations that have come to me this Shabbat during my times of prayer and reflection. ? HaShem loves each of us?with chesed, loving kindness. We can each find needed rest under the Shadow of His Wings. He is the Source of all Life and He gives us Light. He hears the cries of our hearts? If we continue to trust in Him and seek to know Him, we will find that we will be surrounded by love! He extends His righteousness to those who know Him, to the upright in heart! What should be our response to all of these wondrous promises? BE GLAD IN HASHEM AND REJOICE, O YOUR RIGHTEOUS; AND SHOUT FOR JOY, ALL YOU WHO ARE UPRIGHT IN HEART! ? We each know where our hearts are?may we each judge (palel) ourselves and not only pray the Shema daily, but continue to endeavor to find ways to live it with every chord of our being! ? Shavua tov to all on this the first day of Sabbath, ? Elisheva/Betty ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/2c60c6ed/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Sun Jun 14 08:51:58 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (Margie Creech) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 06:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" Message-ID: <606191.14133.qm@web58502.mail.re3.yahoo.com> ?thought I'd correct this being that you're a teacher:? fooling????? "helps to find out?you're not"?? --- On Sun, 6/14/09, creechmargie at yahoo.com wrote: From: creechmargie at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 8:45 AM Betty, Thank you!? I relate so much.? Especially to the part I have copied below.? I?wrestle with with the thoughts of negativity. I sometime think ?maybe I'm just fooing myself?and I'm nothing more than a fake.? I appreciate your willingness to share.? It always helps to find out your not the only one. It will be so good to be gathered together someday.? ? I pray HaShem will bless you this week and I am still praying for that teaching position. ? Margie ? and fighting against the negative thoughts that were trying to infiltrate my thinking?why all the suffering and hurt and problems just in our little group, why so much hurt surrounding my family, me?? Why in the world can?t I just get beyond myself and all of this junk and really give it up to HaShem and not take it back?? Maybe I am just too weak, or worse, maybe I am deluding myself?maybe I am just no good?there are so many people that pray more, study more, do more, what good am I anyway?? ?How can I pray for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, friends or any children when I am feeling so worthless? Does HaShem even hear my prayers when I am like this? ?But then I argued with myself, saying?but HaShem knows my heart and that I have loved Him since I was a little girl and He knows that I am trying to live a good life and do the right thing?I just need to get past where I am now?I just need to try harder?I know that HaShem loves me?but? ? ? --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 12:07 AM Shalom Chaverim, ? I received a PR this morning and wanted to share it and some of the circumstances and thoughts surrounding it.? I apologize ahead of time for the length, but if you will take the time to wade thru it, perhaps it will be an encouragement to you as it was to me?to continue seeking HaShem and to never give up?maybe this is what it means in the Shema when it says not only to love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, but with all your strength as well?love Him with all your strength even when you don?t feel that you have any strength left? ? Due to a lot of personal reasons that will go unnamed, I have really been struggling daily to keep my faith intact, even as a ?glowing ember??not so much my faith in HaShem because I know that He is Constant?it is me that is the problem. ?So this time of prayer and meditation that has been put forth in our joining together to pray for guidance regarding our children, grandchildren, etc., and all of HaShem?s children in ?Living the Shema? has come at a very appropriate time for me, and from reading some of your comments, a very appropriate time for many of us.? ? Some of us have young children who are still at home that need guidance; some have teenagers who are struggling with their own identify that we are trying to reach out to; some have children who having already left our homes do not follow HaShem and His Torah; some have children and families from which they are estranged; some have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren who are struggling and hurting and beset by problems that as parents we just cannot fix.? Some of us are going thru the heartbreaking process of realizing that our parents have become our children?and all this hurt doesn?t even include all that is going on in the lives of HaShem?s children in Eretz Israel and all over the world who are beset by constant life-threatening situations and hunger and sickness?There is just so much suffering and pain and hurt in the world?sometimes it makes one just want to find a secret hiding place and retreat from it all? ? As I kindled the Sabbath candles last night and thought of all of us and our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren? and all of HaShem?s children all over the world welcoming HaShem?s Sabbath into our homes ?I prayed the prayer that I had sent out to the list yesterday?and I prayed it with fervor?really meaning it?trying to see all of us thru the eyes of HaShem?and for a brief moment, in the midst of all the turmoil, I felt a sense of Sabbath peace? ? Yet I remember getting ready for bed last night and fighting against the negative thoughts that were trying to infiltrate my thinking?why all the suffering and hurt and problems just in our little group, why so much hurt surrounding my family, me?? Why in the world can?t I just get beyond myself and all of this junk and really give it up to HaShem and not take it back?? Maybe I am just too weak, or worse, maybe I am deluding myself?maybe I am just no good?there are so many people that pray more, study more, do more, what good am I anyway?? ?How can I pray for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, friends or any children when I am feeling so worthless? Does HaShem even hear my prayers when I am like this? ?But then I argued with myself, saying?but HaShem knows my heart and that I have loved Him since I was a little girl and He knows that I am trying to live a good life and do the right thing?I just need to get past where I am now?I just need to try harder?I know that HaShem loves me?but? ? I don?t remember when I fell asleep, but it was sometime during the Bedtime Shema and the V?ahavta (?You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart??). ? When I got up this morning, I determined that I would go to shul whether I felt like it or not, and I would be determined to make this a day of prayer for what we had set before us in ?Living the Shema.?? I did a little reading from a book that a dear friend had given me by Rabbi Avraham Greenberg based on the writings of Rabbi Nachman?I ?just happened? to open the page to a quote that said, ?When words and cries don?t help, cry deep in your heart without letting out a sound.?? ? ? That hit a chord, so I continued reading??sometimes when the crisis of faith is so great that even wordless cries cannot help, one has to cry from the heart alone.? ??Their heart cried out to HaShem.?? ( Lamentations 2:18) ? The author says that the ?heart alone cries out to HaShem without letting out a sound.?? He quotes Psalms 130:1, ?From the depths I call out to HaShem,? from the depths of the heart.? And from the depths of the heart come guidance, for like ?deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man, Proverbs 20:5.? When shouts and screams no longer help because faith has collapsed, one must cry from the depths of the heart without letting out a sound.? This is how true counsel is revealed, he says, for ?like deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man.?? ? Even though it was time for me to get dressed to go to shul, I was so moved by the passage that I felt compelled to get my tallit and pray. As I said the blessing and put it over my head, I dropped to the floor.? As I knelt, I continued with the tallit blessing as I recited the beautiful and inspirational words taken from Psalms 36:8-11 from memory?with all my heart? ?How precious is your loving kindness O HaShem.?? Your children rest under the Shadow of your Wings? May they be sated from the abundance of your House? May you feed them with the streams of Your delights? For You are the Source of all Life, and in your Light do we have Light? Extend your steadfast Love to those who know you ?And your righteousness to the upright in heart.? ? I then began to ?cry? from my heart?with no words?and when I got up from the floor where I had been kneeling, tears filled my eyes and I was overcome with emotion?and I felt a sort of release?it is hard to explain.? As I was folding up my tallit and putting it on my bookshelf, I sensed that maybe there was something else I needed to do.? Without even thinking, the words came out of my mouth??HaShem do you have a PR for me this morning?? ? Immediately Psalms 32:11 came into my mind.? I quickly grabbed my Bible and turned to the passage, wondering if I had really ?gotten? this from HaShem or if I had just made it up?I tried to push the latter from my mind?.When I turned to the passage, I gasped first in disbelief, then in awe?as I read the words, beginning from 32:10b?? ?but he that trusts in HaShem, shall be surrounded by Love.? Be glad in HaShem and rejoice, O you righteous; and shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart.? ? I was totally amazing at the words before me?I read them over and over?as I thought of all the thoughts I had had the night before, everything began to connect?all the hurts were hurts of the heart;? Who knows our heart?Who is ?close to the brokenhearted and those crushed in spirit? ?What is the cure for all these hurts of the heart that sometimes cannot even find expression? ?The words in the Shema rang in my ears??You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart?, ?The words of the tallit blessing came to mind?and the words of the PR that HaShem had so graciously given me came to mind.? When I cried to Him from the depths of my heart, He answered me. ? Again, I realize this is quite personal, and may appear to be self-centered.? If some of you find it too personal, I apologize. I just felt compelled to share because I think that perhaps there may be others who are hurting that might be encouraged by some of the not new, but fresh realizations that have come to me this Shabbat during my times of prayer and reflection. ? HaShem loves each of us?with chesed, loving kindness. We can each find needed rest under the Shadow of His Wings. He is the Source of all Life and He gives us Light. He hears the cries of our hearts? If we continue to trust in Him and seek to know Him, we will find that we will be surrounded by love! He extends His righteousness to those who know Him, to the upright in heart! What should be our response to all of these wondrous promises? BE GLAD IN HASHEM AND REJOICE, O YOUR RIGHTEOUS; AND SHOUT FOR JOY, ALL YOU WHO ARE UPRIGHT IN HEART! ? We each know where our hearts are?may we each judge (palel) ourselves and not only pray the Shema daily, but continue to endeavor to find ways to live it with every chord of our being! ? Shavua tov to all on this the first day of Sabbath, ? Elisheva/Betty ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/bcbc0f61/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sun Jun 14 09:49:21 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:49:21 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. In-Reply-To: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN> References: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN> Message-ID: All wonderful ideas, Sandra! Thank you so much for sharing. Love, Pat From: sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:09:07 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Children?s songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH?s love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children?s books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children?s page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/e77cedab/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sun Jun 14 10:02:18 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:02:18 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" In-Reply-To: <740A2123A7FE46409C4FE4B71AC87C6A@bettylaptop> References: <740A2123A7FE46409C4FE4B71AC87C6A@bettylaptop> Message-ID: So uplifting, as always, Betty. You reach into the very depths of your heart to write to us, and we benefit so much from your experiences, as well as from the awesome PR with which HaShem has blessed you, and through you, has blessed us all as well. Thank you for your wisdom, love and honesty. Shavua tov, Dear Friend, Pat From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 00:07:16 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" Shalom Chaverim, I received a PR this morning and wanted to share it and some of the circumstances and thoughts surrounding it. I apologize ahead of time for the length, but if you will take the time to wade thru it, perhaps it will be an encouragement to you as it was to me?to continue seeking HaShem and to never give up?maybe this is what it means in the Shema when it says not only to love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, but with all your strength as well?love Him with all your strength even when you don?t feel that you have any strength left? Due to a lot of personal reasons that will go unnamed, I have really been struggling daily to keep my faith intact, even as a ?glowing ember??not so much my faith in HaShem because I know that He is Constant?it is me that is the problem. So this time of prayer and meditation that has been put forth in our joining together to pray for guidance regarding our children, grandchildren, etc., and all of HaShem?s children in ?Living the Shema? has come at a very appropriate time for me, and from reading some of your comments, a very appropriate time for many of us. Some of us have young children who are still at home that need guidance; some have teenagers who are struggling with their own identify that we are trying to reach out to; some have children who having already left our homes do not follow HaShem and His Torah; some have children and families from which they are estranged; some have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren who are struggling and hurting and beset by problems that as parents we just cannot fix. Some of us are going thru the heartbreaking process of realizing that our parents have become our children?and all this hurt doesn?t even include all that is going on in the lives of HaShem?s children in Eretz Israel and all over the world who are beset by constant life-threatening situations and hunger and sickness?There is just so much suffering and pain and hurt in the world?sometimes it makes one just want to find a secret hiding place and retreat from it all? As I kindled the Sabbath candles last night and thought of all of us and our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren? and all of HaShem?s children all over the world welcoming HaShem?s Sabbath into our homes ?I prayed the prayer that I had sent out to the list yesterday?and I prayed it with fervor?really meaning it?trying to see all of us thru the eyes of HaShem?and for a brief moment, in the midst of all the turmoil, I felt a sense of Sabbath peace? Yet I remember getting ready for bed last night and fighting against the negative thoughts that were trying to infiltrate my thinking?why all the suffering and hurt and problems just in our little group, why so much hurt surrounding my family, me? Why in the world can?t I just get beyond myself and all of this junk and really give it up to HaShem and not take it back? Maybe I am just too weak, or worse, maybe I am deluding myself?maybe I am just no good?there are so many people that pray more, study more, do more, what good am I anyway? How can I pray for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, friends or any children when I am feeling so worthless? Does HaShem even hear my prayers when I am like this? But then I argued with myself, saying?but HaShem knows my heart and that I have loved Him since I was a little girl and He knows that I am trying to live a good life and do the right thing?I just need to get past where I am now?I just need to try harder?I know that HaShem loves me?but? I don?t remember when I fell asleep, but it was sometime during the Bedtime Shema and the V?ahavta (?You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart??). When I got up this morning, I determined that I would go to shul whether I felt like it or not, and I would be determined to make this a day of prayer for what we had set before us in ?Living the Shema.? I did a little reading from a book that a dear friend had given me by Rabbi Avraham Greenberg based on the writings of Rabbi Nachman?I ?just happened? to open the page to a quote that said, ?When words and cries don?t help, cry deep in your heart without letting out a sound.? That hit a chord, so I continued reading??sometimes when the crisis of faith is so great that even wordless cries cannot help, one has to cry from the heart alone.? ?Their heart cried out to HaShem.? ( Lamentations 2:18) The author says that the ?heart alone cries out to HaShem without letting out a sound.? He quotes Psalms 130:1, ?From the depths I call out to HaShem,? from the depths of the heart. And from the depths of the heart come guidance, for like ?deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man, Proverbs 20:5. When shouts and screams no longer help because faith has collapsed, one must cry from the depths of the heart without letting out a sound. This is how true counsel is revealed, he says, for ?like deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man.? Even though it was time for me to get dressed to go to shul, I was so moved by the passage that I felt compelled to get my tallit and pray. As I said the blessing and put it over my head, I dropped to the floor. As I knelt, I continued with the tallit blessing as I recited the beautiful and inspirational words taken from Psalms 36:8-11 from memory?with all my heart? ?How precious is your loving kindness O HaShem. Your children rest under the Shadow of your Wings? May they be sated from the abundance of your House? May you feed them with the streams of Your delights? For You are the Source of all Life, and in your Light do we have Light? Extend your steadfast Love to those who know you And your righteousness to the upright in heart.? I then began to ?cry? from my heart?with no words?and when I got up from the floor where I had been kneeling, tears filled my eyes and I was overcome with emotion?and I felt a sort of release?it is hard to explain. As I was folding up my tallit and putting it on my bookshelf, I sensed that maybe there was something else I needed to do. Without even thinking, the words came out of my mouth??HaShem do you have a PR for me this morning?? Immediately Psalms 32:11 came into my mind. I quickly grabbed my Bible and turned to the passage, wondering if I had really ?gotten? this from HaShem or if I had just made it up?I tried to push the latter from my mind?.When I turned to the passage, I gasped first in disbelief, then in awe?as I read the words, beginning from 32:10b? ?but he that trusts in HaShem, shall be surrounded by Love. Be glad in HaShem and rejoice, O you righteous; and shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart.? I was totally amazing at the words before me?I read them over and over?as I thought of all the thoughts I had had the night before, everything began to connect?all the hurts were hurts of the heart; Who knows our heart?Who is ?close to the brokenhearted and those crushed in spirit? What is the cure for all these hurts of the heart that sometimes cannot even find expression? The words in the Shema rang in my ears??You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart?, ?The words of the tallit blessing came to mind?and the words of the PR that HaShem had so graciously given me came to mind. When I cried to Him from the depths of my heart, He answered me. Again, I realize this is quite personal, and may appear to be self-centered. If some of you find it too personal, I apologize. I just felt compelled to share because I think that perhaps there may be others who are hurting that might be encouraged by some of the not new, but fresh realizations that have come to me this Shabbat during my times of prayer and reflection. HaShem loves each of us?with chesed, loving kindness. We can each find needed rest under the Shadow of His Wings. He is the Source of all Life and He gives us Light. He hears the cries of our hearts? If we continue to trust in Him and seek to know Him, we will find that we will be surrounded by love! He extends His righteousness to those who know Him, to the upright in heart! What should be our response to all of these wondrous promises? BE GLAD IN HASHEM AND REJOICE, O YOUR RIGHTEOUS; AND SHOUT FOR JOY, ALL YOU WHO ARE UPRIGHT IN HEART! We each know where our hearts are?may we each judge (palel) ourselves and not only pray the Shema daily, but continue to endeavor to find ways to live it with every chord of our being! Shavua tov to all on this the first day of Sabbath, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/1d7edf12/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 11:15:13 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:15:13 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] From today's front page (online) Israel Nationa News Message-ID: <855590370906140915u427ca7c1qd62445c2ac7c0474@mail.gmail.com> >From the front page of today's Arutz Sheva news (israelnationalnews.com); check THIS out!!! Go to the site, I was able to paste it as it appears. *Hanoch * t News Briefs Israel Time: 7:00 PM More [image: Israel news picture] *? Make A7 Your Homepage * Sivan 22, 5769 / June 14, '09 Revisiting New Testament: Was Jesus Just a Normal Human Being? by Susan Wolf (IsraelNN.com) In sharp contrast to the popular belief that Jesus was the Christian deity and preached so during his lifetime, Professor James Tabor says that research clearly shows that Jesus was a normal human being and never claimed to be G-d. "History clearly shows that Jesus was a Jewish human being, born through natural conception, and had a human father. It was only after his natural death that that the Christian religion emerged and Jesus became a god," says Prof. Tabor, the Chair of the Department of Religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Charlotte. Prof. James Tabor intv'w - Part I IsraelNationalRadio.com 00:00 Embed Video - Copy code to embed video in HTML document *Download the above mp3 file* Speaking on *Israel National Radio's* Tovia Singer show, Tabor charges that Jesus was a Jew who hoped to redeem Israel but never claimed to be G-d. According to Tabor, the entire chronology of the New Testament is contradictory at best. While Jesus died in 30 A.D., Paul of Tarsus only began to write twenty years later, in 50 A.D. Professor Tabor's upcoming book on Paul will detail how there was no Christian following whatsoever before Paul. Even more contradictory, Paul refers to Jesus as the seed of David and not as a product of immaculate conception. Prof. James Tabor intv'w - Part II IsraelNationalRadio.com 00:00 Embed Video - Copy code to embed video in HTML document *Download the above mp3 file * Professor Tabor's research is described in full in his new book *Restoring Abrahamic Faith*. He just completed a manifesto of Biblical theology rooted in the Jewish Bible in which he presents novel ideas that present a fresh view of the origin of Christianity. Jesus knew nothing about Easter, Christmas or the Last Supper, he says. In actuality, the site of the "Last Supper" is merely the location where Jesus blessed on bread. The notion that Jesus commanded the drinking of his blood and the eating of his body has no historical basis whatsoever, Tabor adds; the Holy Communion developed only after the death of Jesus. His previous book - *The Jesus Dynasty* - reached the *New York Times*best-seller list, shaking up even Ted Koppel of 20/20 nightline with its conclusions. His latest work, *Restoring Abrahamic Faith*, is based on four decades of research on the historical Jesus and explores the Bible without any preconceived notions. *A Ben Noah *In *The Jesus Dynasty*, Tabor presented a historical investigation of Jesus and his family with ideas that naturally antagonize many from the Roman Catholic Church. When asked why he doesn't consider conversion to Judaism, Tabor explains that alongside his love for Judaism and his knowledge that the Jews are G-d's chosen people, he believes the Jews are meant to be a minority in G-d's divine plan, and he is comfortable with his place as a declared Ben Noah or Noahide. The belief in Israel's mission to bring light to the world does not necessitate that everyone be Jewish, he says. Moreover, Prof. Tabor believes that he can accomplish substantially more from outside of Judaism, and therefore continues his research and writings with the hope that he can expose Christianity and all religions to a proper historical investigation. *Support from Christian pastors *Tabor believes that Jerusalem must remain under Israeli sovereignty. In addition, he explains that the Israelis are the most natural and fair broker for the region and are the only ones who actually maintain peace, whereas diverse religious groups, including Armenians, Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Egyptian Copts and other Christians cannot even agree on who should open the Holy Sepulcher in the morning, based on a tradition of passing around the key. It is only the Israelis who have prevented actual bloodshed amongst the various clergymen and have brought harmony to the region. Although *Restoring Abrahamic Faith* may be controversial in many settings, Tabor has already received intense support and interest from Christian pastors. Tabor has proven that the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam can be traced back to the great Abrahamic Faith, despite the different directions in which they all developed. His biblically-based expositions from the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings of the Hebrew Bible combine to present a stimulating viewpoint with a solid historical basis. For more information on the story of G-d's great plan, as it applies to all of mankind, visit Prof. Tabor's website www.genesis2000.org. Hear the two interviews with Prof. James Tabor on Israel National Radio: Hear Part 1 Hear Part 2 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/b8f09f2f/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 14 14:05:43 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:05:43 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" In-Reply-To: References: <740A2123A7FE46409C4FE4B71AC87C6A@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <99CCC3C8591642E681D073658A7A5C0B@bettylaptop> Thank you for your encouraging response, dear Pat. It seems like we have known one another forever and I treasure your friendship. One of the things that we have learned about one another thru the years is that we both have this thing for honesty. and sometimes it gets painful, but it is a part of us.as I was writing from my heart, things just came pouring out.I am glad that the PR from HaShem and my words were uplifting to you. I just wanted to say to you, Sandra that I am sorry you identified so fully with some of my feelings, as that means you are going thru a lot of pain which I had already sensed before you shared. But it is in sharing and admitting our struggles to HaShem and to those who care that we can come to grips with where we are and begin again. That is one of the things that I love about Torah faith.there is always room for t'shuvah (repentance/and turning back to HaShem). I am so glad that you are with us, and that thru the encouragement of our brother Eliron/John that you were able to begin praying again.you and your children and all are in my prayers. I have found in my own life and the lives of those close to me that the times when we need to pray the most are the times when we just don't 'feel' like it. Yes, may HaShem (quoting from your post in italics) "give us the answers we seek, as we seek to serve Him with our whole heart." Thank you so much for your response. I look forward to continuing to dialogue with you and to meeting you in person one day. And Margie, thank you for your response, in italics below, and the correction (:-)fooling and you're).even though I am a teacher, I apparently was not on my toes because I just read right over your typos.you were speaking from your heart and that is what I was focused on. ." I sometime think maybe I'm just fooing myself and I'm nothing more than a fake. I appreciate your willingness to share. It always helps to find out your not the only one. I had a feeling as I was writing that maybe I was not the only one who struggled with negative thoughts. Sad to say that we "go there" from time to time when circumstances get tough; we both know better. It is just so easy to fall back into that pit if we don't stay steeped in Torah and on guard. You are certainly not a fake and I am glad that you realize that. And as you said, It will be so good to be gathered together someday. " I can't wait to meet you.thank you for your continual prayers for me to secure a teaching position. I do appreciate it so very much. Hugs and love to you my 'Achot" sisters, and to all, Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:02 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" So uplifting, as always, Betty. You reach into the very depths of your heart to write to us, and we benefit so much from your experiences, as well as from the awesome PR with which HaShem has blessed you, and through you, has blessed us all as well. Thank you for your wisdom, love and honesty. Shavua tov, Dear Friend, Pat _____ From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 00:07:16 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" Shalom Chaverim, I received a PR this morning and wanted to share it and some of the circumstances and thoughts surrounding it. I apologize ahead of time for the length, but if you will take the time to wade thru it, perhaps it will be an encouragement to you as it was to me.to continue seeking HaShem and to never give up.maybe this is what it means in the Shema when it says not only to love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, but with all your strength as well.love Him with all your strength even when you don't feel that you have any strength left. Due to a lot of personal reasons that will go unnamed, I have really been struggling daily to keep my faith intact, even as a "glowing ember".not so much my faith in HaShem because I know that He is Constant.it is me that is the problem. So this time of prayer and meditation that has been put forth in our joining together to pray for guidance regarding our children, grandchildren, etc., and all of HaShem's children in "Living the Shema" has come at a very appropriate time for me, and from reading some of your comments, a very appropriate time for many of us. Some of us have young children who are still at home that need guidance; some have teenagers who are struggling with their own identify that we are trying to reach out to; some have children who having already left our homes do not follow HaShem and His Torah; some have children and families from which they are estranged; some have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren who are struggling and hurting and beset by problems that as parents we just cannot fix. Some of us are going thru the heartbreaking process of realizing that our parents have become our children.and all this hurt doesn't even include all that is going on in the lives of HaShem's children in Eretz Israel and all over the world who are beset by constant life-threatening situations and hunger and sickness.There is just so much suffering and pain and hurt in the world.sometimes it makes one just want to find a secret hiding place and retreat from it all. As I kindled the Sabbath candles last night and thought of all of us and our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren. and all of HaShem's children all over the world welcoming HaShem's Sabbath into our homes .I prayed the prayer that I had sent out to the list yesterday.and I prayed it with fervor.really meaning it.trying to see all of us thru the eyes of HaShem.and for a brief moment, in the midst of all the turmoil, I felt a sense of Sabbath peace. Yet I remember getting ready for bed last night and fighting against the negative thoughts that were trying to infiltrate my thinking.why all the suffering and hurt and problems just in our little group, why so much hurt surrounding my family, me? Why in the world can't I just get beyond myself and all of this junk and really give it up to HaShem and not take it back? Maybe I am just too weak, or worse, maybe I am deluding myself.maybe I am just no good.there are so many people that pray more, study more, do more, what good am I anyway? How can I pray for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, friends or any children when I am feeling so worthless? Does HaShem even hear my prayers when I am like this? But then I argued with myself, saying.but HaShem knows my heart and that I have loved Him since I was a little girl and He knows that I am trying to live a good life and do the right thing.I just need to get past where I am now.I just need to try harder.I know that HaShem loves me.but. I don't remember when I fell asleep, but it was sometime during the Bedtime Shema and the V'ahavta ("You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart."). When I got up this morning, I determined that I would go to shul whether I felt like it or not, and I would be determined to make this a day of prayer for what we had set before us in "Living the Shema." I did a little reading from a book that a dear friend had given me by Rabbi Avraham Greenberg based on the writings of Rabbi Nachman.I 'just happened' to open the page to a quote that said, "When words and cries don't help, cry deep in your heart without letting out a sound." That hit a chord, so I continued reading."sometimes when the crisis of faith is so great that even wordless cries cannot help, one has to cry from the heart alone." "Their heart cried out to HaShem." ( Lamentations 2:18) The author says that the "heart alone cries out to HaShem without letting out a sound." He quotes Psalms 130:1, "From the depths I call out to HaShem," from the depths of the heart. And from the depths of the heart come guidance, for like "deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man, Proverbs 20:5. When shouts and screams no longer help because faith has collapsed, one must cry from the depths of the heart without letting out a sound. This is how true counsel is revealed, he says, for "like deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man." Even though it was time for me to get dressed to go to shul, I was so moved by the passage that I felt compelled to get my tallit and pray. As I said the blessing and put it over my head, I dropped to the floor. As I knelt, I continued with the tallit blessing as I recited the beautiful and inspirational words taken from Psalms 36:8-11 from memory.with all my heart. "How precious is your loving kindness O HaShem. Your children rest under the Shadow of your Wings. May they be sated from the abundance of your House. May you feed them with the streams of Your delights. For You are the Source of all Life, and in your Light do we have Light. Extend your steadfast Love to those who know you And your righteousness to the upright in heart." I then began to "cry' from my heart.with no words.and when I got up from the floor where I had been kneeling, tears filled my eyes and I was overcome with emotion.and I felt a sort of release.it is hard to explain. As I was folding up my tallit and putting it on my bookshelf, I sensed that maybe there was something else I needed to do. Without even thinking, the words came out of my mouth."HaShem do you have a PR for me this morning?" Immediately Psalms 32:11 came into my mind. I quickly grabbed my Bible and turned to the passage, wondering if I had really "gotten" this from HaShem or if I had just made it up.I tried to push the latter from my mind..When I turned to the passage, I gasped first in disbelief, then in awe.as I read the words, beginning from 32:10b. "but he that trusts in HaShem, shall be surrounded by Love. Be glad in HaShem and rejoice, O you righteous; and shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart." I was totally amazing at the words before me.I read them over and over.as I thought of all the thoughts I had had the night before, everything began to connect.all the hurts were hurts of the heart; Who knows our heart.Who is "close to the brokenhearted and those crushed in spirit? What is the cure for all these hurts of the heart that sometimes cannot even find expression? The words in the Shema rang in my ears."You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart., "The words of the tallit blessing came to mind.and the words of the PR that HaShem had so graciously given me came to mind. When I cried to Him from the depths of my heart, He answered me. Again, I realize this is quite personal, and may appear to be self-centered. If some of you find it too personal, I apologize. I just felt compelled to share because I think that perhaps there may be others who are hurting that might be encouraged by some of the not new, but fresh realizations that have come to me this Shabbat during my times of prayer and reflection. HaShem loves each of us.with chesed, loving kindness. We can each find needed rest under the Shadow of His Wings. He is the Source of all Life and He gives us Light. He hears the cries of our hearts. If we continue to trust in Him and seek to know Him, we will find that we will be surrounded by love! He extends His righteousness to those who know Him, to the upright in heart! What should be our response to all of these wondrous promises? BE GLAD IN HASHEM AND REJOICE, O YOUR RIGHTEOUS; AND SHOUT FOR JOY, ALL YOU WHO ARE UPRIGHT IN HEART! We each know where our hearts are.may we each judge (palel) ourselves and not only pray the Shema daily, but continue to endeavor to find ways to live it with every chord of our being! Shavua tov to all on this the first day of Sabbath, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/4769bc29/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 14:20:38 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:20:38 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Netanyahu's speech today Message-ID: <855590370906141220n7a9cd5adr4681fe47ef3da064@mail.gmail.com> [image: JTA Breaking News Alert] June 14, 2009 Netanyahu OK with a demilitarized Palestinian state JERUSALEM (JTA) -- Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel would agree to a demilitarized Palestinian state. in a major foreign policy address Sunday at Bar-Ilan University, Netanyahu also said the Palestinians to have a state must recognize Israel as a Jewish state."It is impossible to agree on the principle of a Palestinian state without these" conditions, he said, according to an English translation provided with a video feed on the Bar-Ilan University Web site. If Israel receives assurances that the two conditions are met, Netanyahu said, "we will be ready in the future" for a "demilitarized Palestinian state that exists alongside a Jewish state." Such a demilitarized state, he said, could not import weapons, make pacts with enemies of Israel and would not be able to close its airspace to Israel. Netanyahu also called for immediate peace talks with Palestinian leaders, without preconditions. "We want both Israeli and Palestinian children to live without war," he said, citing the root of conflict to the refusal of regional entities to accept Israel as Jewish state. "We must ask ourselves, why has peace not yet arrived after 60 years?" Netanyahu, whose Bar-Ilan address was called a response to President Obama's Cairo speech earlier this month in which the U.S. leader tried to reach out to the world's Muslims, said he was prepared to meet with the leaders of neighboring Arab countries at any time to promote regional peace. "We want peace in Damascus, in Riyadh, in Beirut, and also in Jerusalem," he said. In another portion of the speech that was closely watched at the White House, Netanyahu said that Israel had no intention of creating new West Bank settlements or expanding existing towns, but said there is a "need to allow residents to live normal lives." The Israeli leader did not expound. The United States has demanded all settlement activity be stopped, including "natural growth." Netanyahu added that settlers are not "enemies of peace" but "are our brothers." He reiterated his deep concern over Iran. "The Iranian threat looms large in front of us, as we learned yesterday," Netanyahu said, referring to the apparent re-election of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, which has brought protests in the Islamic Republic over the fairness of the election. "The greatest danger" to the region, he said, is the intersection between "radical Islam and nuclear weapons." The prime minister also said that Jerusalem must remain united and that the Palestinian refugee problem "must be resolved outside Israel's borders." In an apparent response to Obama's statement in Cairo that the creation of Israel was "rooted in the tragic history" of the Holocaust, Netanyahu emphasized that the "connection between the land of Israel and the Jewish people has lasted more than 3,500 years." "This is not an alien land, this is the land of our forefathers," he said. "This is the homeland of the Jewish people, this is where our identity was forged." For updates on this story, visit JTA.org . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/3ee491f7/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 14 14:59:56 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:59:56 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. In-Reply-To: <788216.18309.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <788216.18309.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <045E5EB44E3C442CAB1A3C52C654DCC8@bettylaptop> Wonderful ideas Sandra and Margie. Pat, I think a week or so ago, you suggested getting DVD's of some of the Bible characters for kids to watch. Kim has started doing that, and 6 yr old Skip is loving it! I am so glad to hear you say that you have begun singing to you 7 month old, Sandra. That is such a beautiful way to bond and HaShem will honor that as he places your words and tunes into your little grand daughter's heart. As a teacher of young children for many years and having had 3 daughters of my own and numerous grandchildren, I can vouch for the benefits of what you are both suggesting. Children learn best when their minds are young.there is all kinds of research on this.I know Kim used the Baby Einstein series for her kids. If Baby Einstein works with its colorful images, music and such, then Torah songs and stories work too. I have heard it said that music is the "language of the soul," and as a lover of music myself, I could not agree more.I am always going around humming something.whether in the house or at the grocery store.when I am in public, sometimes I get stares.but that is okay.I love having a "song in my heart!" And when my girls were little, we always went around the house singing. I love the Aaronic Benediction, and whenever I had the chance to hold any of my grandchildren for the first time, I would sing it to them softly in their tiny little ears. One day I was a Kim's and her oldest Laura, who was about 9 or 10 at the time, was singing it in Hebrew to her baby sister, Jana. Kim sang to the kids as well, so they got a double dose! Even today, when I go over to my daughter, Beth's house, if I am there to put the kids to bed, the younger ones (ages 7-11) remember it and want me to sing it to them before they go to sleep. They call it "Eva".as it starts with Y'varechecha. I sing it in both Hebrew and English and when I ask them which version they want first, they invariably choose the Hebrew! It is short and not very difficult to learn.I learned it by listening to a CD over and over and over until it was in my brain, which took me a lot longer that it would take the kids. There are all kinds of great songs and stories available on CD's, or just making up our own songs and telling stories about Bible characters and repeating Bible verses as you both mentioned is good. I have found that kids love listening to a story and then retelling it in their own words and writing it down, or if they are unable to write, they can dictate it for an adult to write down and then illustrate it. I have done this in school for years and it is a marvelous way to instill language in a young child's mind.and it might as well be Torah language, right? I really like the idea of a having a children's page on SWW with songs, activities related to the Torah portion for the week. Maybe in the meantime, we could have some links of existing websites designed for children. One of my favorites is http://www.akhlah.com/ Not everything is suitable for the very young children, but it has a rich selection including a very colorful Hebrew Alef-Bet plus a coloring page, flash cards, vocabulary words, a Hero of the Week, Parsha of the week, Puzzle of the Week, Festivals, etc., The only thing it doesn't have is music, but I am sure we could do a search and find some music as well. Check it out and see what you think. Shalom and shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Margie Creech Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:31 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Sandra, When my youngest son and daughter were growing up I would sing verses from the Bible to them over and over. When my daughter was 2 years old she knew more Torah by heart than I could ever hope to know. When we are young our memories are much better than when we are older. I read an article that if you read/say something three times a day that after six weeks it is yours forever. I would do this with them in school as well. At the end of six weeks they knew Isaiah 53 and many other chapters over time by heart. I cannot tell you how my heart would soar as I would listen to them recite these scriptures. I can remember standing by the back door and hear my daughter singing scriptures to her dolls. Now she is far away from HaShem but I know that His Word is buried deep in her heart and that the day is coming when He will cause His Word to the surface. Although my son was so hyper that he didn't have the same ease as she did with memorizing but I know that His Word is planted deep in his heart too. His Word is powerful and will not be made void. You have made an eternal difference in your children's lives and now passing it on to the next generation. YeHoWaH is beyond any words that I could use to express His greatness! You have my continued prayers. Margie --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Sandra Inglis wrote: From: Sandra Inglis Subject: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 6:09 AM Children's songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH's love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children's books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children's page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/c7460d33/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Sun Jun 14 16:58:41 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:58:41 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Never give up !! Message-ID: <4A357291.2020503@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/101eda81/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 14 19:39:25 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:39:25 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Netanyahu's speech today In-Reply-To: <855590370906141220n7a9cd5adr4681fe47ef3da064@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <061520090039.11898.4A35983C000B640200002E7A22230650629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Does anyone think that the PA is going to recognize Israel as a state? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- June 14, 2009 Netanyahu OK with a demilitarized Palestinian state JERUSALEM (JTA) -- Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel would agree to a demilitarized Palestinian state. in a major foreign policy address Sunday at Bar-Ilan University, Netanyahu also said the Palestinians to have a state must recognize Israel as a Jewish state."It is impossible to agree on the principle of a Palestinian state without these" conditions, he said, according to an English translation provided with a video feed on the Bar-Ilan University Web site. If Israel receives assurances that the two conditions are met, Netanyahu said, "we will be ready in the future" for a "demilitarized Palestinian state that exists alongside a Jewish state." Such a demilitarized state, he said, could not import weapons, make pacts with enemies of Israel and would not be able to close its airspace to Israel. Netanyahu also called for immediate peace talks with Palestinian leaders, without preconditions. "We want both Israeli and Palestinian children to live without war," he said, citing the root of conflict to the refusal of regional entities to accept Israel as Jewish state. "We must ask ourselves, why has peace not yet arrived after 60 years?" Netanyahu, whose Bar-Ilan address was called a response to President Obama's Cairo speech earlier this month in which the U.S. leader tried to reach out to the world's Muslims, said he was prepared to meet with the leaders of neighboring Arab countries at any time to promote regional peace. "We want peace in Damascus, in Riyadh, in Beirut, and also in Jerusalem," he said. In another portion of the speech that was closely watched at the White House, Netanyahu said that Israel had no intention of creating new West Bank settlements or expanding existing towns, but said there is a "need to allow residents to live normal lives." The Israeli leader did not expound. The United States has demanded all settlement activity be stopped, including "natural growth." Netanyahu added that settlers are not "enemies of peace" but "are our brothers." He reiterated his deep concern over Iran. "The Iranian threat looms large in front of us, as we learned yesterday," Netanyahu said, referring to the apparent re-election of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, which has brought protests in the Islamic Republic over the fairness of the election. "The greatest danger" to the region, he said, is the intersection between "radical Islam and nuclear weapons." The prime minister also said that Jerusalem must remain united and that the Palestinian refugee problem "must be resolved outside Israel's borders." In an apparent response to Obama's statement in Cairo that the creation of Israel was "rooted in the tragic history" of the Holocaust, Netanyahu emphasized that the "connection between the land of Israel and the Jewish people has lasted more than 3,500 years." "This is not an alien land, this is the land of our forefathers," he said. "This is the homeland of the Jewish people, this is where our identity was forged." For updates on this story, visit JTA.org. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/6f896890/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 14 19:54:11 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:54:11 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] From today's front page (online) Israel Nationa News In-Reply-To: <855590370906140915u427ca7c1qd62445c2ac7c0474@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <061520090054.29412.4A359BB000053E06000072E422230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Excellent! Another quantum leap! -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- >From the front page of today's Arutz Sheva news (israelnationalnews.com); check THIS out!!! Go to the site, I was able to paste it as it appears. Hanoch t News Briefs Israel Time: 7:00 PM More $B!|(B Make A7 Your Homepage Sivan 22, 5769 / June 14, '09 Revisiting New Testament: Was Jesus Just a Normal Human Being? by Susan Wolf (IsraelNN.com) In sharp contrast to the popular belief that Jesus was the Christian deity and preached so during his lifetime, Professor James Tabor says that research clearly shows that Jesus was a normal human being and never claimed to be G-d. ?History clearly shows that Jesus was a Jewish human being, born through natural conception, and had a human father. It was only after his natural death that that the Christian religion emerged and Jesus became a god,? says Prof. Tabor, the Chair of the Department of Religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Charlotte. Prof. James Tabor intv'w - Part I IsraelNationalRadio.com 00:00 Embed Video - Copy code to embed video in HTML document Download the above mp3 file Speaking on Israel National Radio's Tovia Singer show, Tabor charges that Jesus was a Jew who hoped to redeem Israel but never claimed to be G-d. According to Tabor, the entire chronology of the New Testament is contradictory at best. While Jesus died in 30 A.D., Paul of Tarsus only began to write twenty years later, in 50 A.D. Professor Tabor?s upcoming book on Paul will detail how there was no Christian following whatsoever before Paul. Even more contradictory, Paul refers to Jesus as the seed of David and not as a product of immaculate conception. Prof. James Tabor intv'w - Part II IsraelNationalRadio.com 00:00 Embed Video - Copy code to embed video in HTML document Download the above mp3 file Professor Tabor?s research is described in full in his new book Restoring Abrahamic Faith. He just completed a manifesto of Biblical theology rooted in the Jewish Bible in which he presents novel ideas that present a fresh view of the origin of Christianity. Jesus knew nothing about Easter, Christmas or the Last Supper, he says. In actuality, the site of the "Last Supper" is merely the location where Jesus blessed on bread. The notion that Jesus commanded the drinking of his blood and the eating of his body has no historical basis whatsoever, Tabor adds; the Holy Communion developed only after the death of Jesus. His previous book ? The Jesus Dynasty ? reached the New York Times best-seller list, shaking up even Ted Koppel of 20/20 nightline with its conclusions. His latest work, Restoring Abrahamic Faith, is based on four decades of research on the historical Jesus and explores the Bible without any preconceived notions. A Ben Noah In The Jesus Dynasty, Tabor presented a historical investigation of Jesus and his family with ideas that naturally antagonize many from the Roman Catholic Church. When asked why he doesn?t consider conversion to Judaism, Tabor explains that alongside his love for Judaism and his knowledge that the Jews are G-d?s chosen people, he believes the Jews are meant to be a minority in G-d?s divine plan, and he is comfortable with his place as a declared Ben Noah or Noahide. The belief in Israel?s mission to bring light to the world does not necessitate that everyone be Jewish, he says. Moreover, Prof. Tabor believes that he can accomplish substantially more from outside of Judaism, and therefore continues his research and writings with the hope that he can expose Christianity and all religions to a proper historical investigation. Support from Christian pastors Tabor believes that Jerusalem must remain under Israeli sovereignty. In addition, he explains that the Israelis are the most natural and fair broker for the region and are the only ones who actually maintain peace, whereas diverse religious groups, including Armenians, Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Egyptian Copts and other Christians cannot even agree on who should open the Holy Sepulcher in the morning, based on a tradition of passing around the key. It is only the Israelis who have prevented actual bloodshed amongst the various clergymen and have brought harmony to the region. Although Restoring Abrahamic Faith may be controversial in many settings, Tabor has already received intense support and interest from Christian pastors. Tabor has proven that the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam can be traced back to the great Abrahamic Faith, despite the different directions in which they all developed. His biblically-based expositions from the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings of the Hebrew Bible combine to present a stimulating viewpoint with a solid historical basis. For more information on the story of G-d?s great plan, as it applies to all of mankind, visit Prof. Tabor's website www.genesis2000.org. Hear the two interviews with Prof. James Tabor on Israel National Radio: Hear Part 1 Hear Part 2 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/aad73755/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 20:12:38 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:12:38 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Netanyahu's speech today In-Reply-To: <061520090039.11898.4A35983C000B640200002E7A22230650629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <855590370906141220n7a9cd5adr4681fe47ef3da064@mail.gmail.com> <061520090039.11898.4A35983C000B640200002E7A22230650629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <855590370906141812j237ef5dej21e964cbe550c94c@mail.gmail.com> Hey folks - Well, in the original Oslo Accords (1993), the PLO was supposed to amend their charter calling for the destruction of the State of Israel; they never did, and of course, idiots that we are, we never called them on it. We just kept ignoring (with the urging of the White House, of course) what they were and weren't saying vs what they were doing. And remember, it's not just recognizing Israel as a state, but as a JEWISH state! Now, frankly, I don't think they will, just as Arafat (may he rot forever) didn't take everything Barak had offered him, and launched the Oslo War. However, I learned an important lesson many years ago in the Bronx - never threaten (or, in this case - offer) to do something you aren't willing to actually do. Bibi threw down the gauntlet, but what happens if the Arabs call his bluff?? We are definitely living in "interesting times." * Hanoch * On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:39 PM, wrote: > Does anyone think that the PA is going to recognize Israel as a state? > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : > -------------- > > [image: JTA Breaking News Alert] > > June 14, 2009 > Netanyahu OK with a demilitarized Palestinian state > > JERUSALEM (JTA) -- Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel > would agree to a demilitarized Palestinian state. > > in a major foreign policy address Sunday at Bar-Ilan University, Netanyahu > also said the Palestinians to have a state must recognize Israel as a Jewish > state."It is impossible to agree on the principle of a Palestinian state > without these" conditions, he said, according to an English translation > provided with a video feed on the Bar-Ilan University Web site. > > If Israel receives assurances that the two conditions are met, Netanyahu > said, "we will be ready in the future" for a "demilitarized Palestinian > state that exists alongside a Jewish state." Such a demilitarized state, he > said, could not import weapons, make pacts with enemies of Israel and would > not be able to close its airspace to Israel. > > Netanyahu also called for immediate peace talks with Palestinian leaders, > without preconditions. > > "We want both Israeli and Palestinian children to live without war," he > said, citing the root of conflict to the refusal of regional entities to > accept Israel as Jewish state. "We must ask ourselves, why has peace not yet > arrived after 60 years?" > > Netanyahu, whose Bar-Ilan address was called a response to President > Obama's Cairo speech earlier this month in which the U.S. leader tried to > reach out to the world's Muslims, said he was prepared to meet with the > leaders of neighboring Arab countries at any time to promote regional peace. > > "We want peace in Damascus, in Riyadh, in Beirut, and also in Jerusalem," > he said. > > In another portion of the speech that was closely watched at the White > House, Netanyahu said that Israel had no intention of creating new West Bank > settlements or expanding existing towns, but said there is a "need to allow > residents to live normal lives." The Israeli leader did not expound. > > The United States has demanded all settlement activity be stopped, > including "natural growth." > > Netanyahu added that settlers are not "enemies of peace" but "are our > brothers." > > He reiterated his deep concern over Iran. > > "The Iranian threat looms large in front of us, as we learned yesterday," > Netanyahu said, referring to the apparent re-election of Iranian President > Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, which has brought protests in the Islamic Republic over > the fairness of the election. > > "The greatest danger" to the region, he said, is the intersection between > "radical Islam and nuclear weapons." > > The prime minister also said that Jerusalem must remain united and that the > Palestinian refugee problem "must be resolved outside Israel's borders." > > In an apparent response to Obama's statement in Cairo that the creation of > Israel was "rooted in the tragic history" of the Holocaust, Netanyahu > emphasized that the "connection between the land of Israel and the Jewish > people has lasted more than 3,500 years." > > "This is not an alien land, this is the land of our forefathers," he said. > "This is the homeland of the Jewish people, this is where our identity was > forged." > > For updates on this story, visit JTA.org > . > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/e2e5b727/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 14 20:29:21 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:29:21 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. In-Reply-To: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN> Message-ID: <061520090129.3472.4A35A3F10001231B00000D9022230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Hey Sandra, Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by the folks on this list? What do ya think? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Children?s songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH?s love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children?s books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children?s page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/7c487988/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 14 20:32:28 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:32:28 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Netanyahu's speech today In-Reply-To: <855590370906141812j237ef5dej21e964cbe550c94c@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370906141220n7a9cd5adr4681fe47ef3da064@mail.gmail.com><061520090039.11898.4A35983C000B640200002E7A22230650629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <855590370906141812j237ef5dej21e964cbe550c94c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <061520090132.9374.4A35A4AB000DE1F40000249E22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> You're right Hanoch, I meant to say Jewish state. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Hey folks - Well, in the original Oslo Accords (1993), the PLO was supposed to amend their charter calling for the destruction of the State of Israel; they never did, and of course, idiots that we are, we never called them on it. We just kept ignoring (with the urging of the White House, of course) what they were and weren't saying vs what they were doing. And remember, it's not just recognizing Israel as a state, but as a JEWISH state! Now, frankly, I don't think they will, just as Arafat (may he rot forever) didn't take everything Barak had offered him, and launched the Oslo War. However, I learned an important lesson many years ago in the Bronx - never threaten (or, in this case - offer) to do something you aren't willing to actually do. Bibi threw down the gauntlet, but what happens if the Arabs call his bluff?? We are definitely living in "interesting times." Hanoch On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:39 PM, wrote: Does anyone think that the PA is going to recognize Israel as a state? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- June 14, 2009 Netanyahu OK with a demilitarized Palestinian state JERUSALEM (JTA) -- Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel would agree to a demilitarized Palestinian state. in a major foreign policy address Sunday at Bar-Ilan University, Netanyahu also said the Palestinians to have a state must recognize Israel as a Jewish state."It is impossible to agree on the principle of a Palestinian state without these" conditions, he said, according to an English translation provided with a video feed on the Bar-Ilan University Web site. If Israel receives assurances that the two conditions are met, Netanyahu said, "we will be ready in the future" for a "demilitarized Palestinian state that exists alongside a Jewish state." Such a demilitarized state, he said, could not import weapons, make pacts with enemies of Israel and would not be able to close its airspace to Israel. Netanyahu also called for immediate peace talks with Palestinian leaders, without preconditions. "We want both Israeli and Palestinian children to live without war," he said, citing the root of conflict to the refusal of regional entities to accept Israel as Jewish state. "We must ask ourselves, why has peace not yet arrived after 60 years?" Netanyahu, whose Bar-Ilan address was called a response to President Obama's Cairo speech earlier this month in which the U.S. leader tried to reach out to the world's Muslims, said he was prepared to meet with the leaders of neighboring Arab countries at any time to promote regional peace. "We want peace in Damascus, in Riyadh, in Beirut, and also in Jerusalem," he said. In another portion of the speech that was closely watched at the White House, Netanyahu said that Israel had no intention of creating new West Bank settlements or expanding existing towns, but said there is a "need to allow residents to live normal lives." The Israeli leader did not expound. The United States has demanded all settlement activity be stopped, including "natural growth." Netanyahu added that settlers are not "enemies of peace" but "are our brothers." He reiterated his deep concern over Iran. "The Iranian threat looms large in front of us, as we learned yesterday," Netanyahu said, referring to the apparent re-election of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, which has brought protests in the Islamic Republic over the fairness of the election. "The greatest danger" to the region, he said, is the intersection between "radical Islam and nuclear weapons." The prime minister also said that Jerusalem must remain united and that the Palestinian refugee problem "must be resolved outside Israel's borders." In an apparent response to Obama's statement in Cairo that the creation of Israel was "rooted in the tragic history" of the Holocaust, Netanyahu emphasized that the "connection between the land of Israel and the Jewish people has lasted more than 3,500 years." "This is not an alien land, this is the land of our forefathers," he said. "This is the homeland of the Jewish people, this is where our identity was forged." For updates on this story, visit JTA.org. _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/ae92a790/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 20:32:57 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:32:57 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Message-ID: <855590370906141832t5efaf8dfpecd7198b6036b407@mail.gmail.com> *Please read the report below (from Yair Davidy's Brit Am mailings), and look at the flags in Ulster County - * * Hanoch* ** 3. Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner From: ENSEMBLE CLIFFORD-SMYTH On Saturday the 6th of June 2009, we passed through a newly built housing estate south west of Ballymena in Northern Ireland; as we approach the traditional annual commemorations of the Battle of the Boyne such Protestant, unionist and loyalists housing estates are bedecked in Union Jacks, Northern Ireland flags and other symbols of loyalty to the British Crown. A few years ago ,many of these estates adopted the Israeli flag and flew that flag too. Obviously Ulster loyalists find common cause with Israel in regard to their conflict over land & identity; this year though we encounter a new phenomenon someone has synthesised or fused or married the Northern Ireland flag with that of the state of Israel. ( I attach the pics. including a pic of me in my Titanic Tartan kilt ! But it's the flags we are interested in.) I have reports of Israeli flags flying in other parts of Ulster. Clifford Ulster Israeli Combined Banner Photos [image: Clifford] [image: Ulster Flag] [image: Magen David] [image: Ulster Flag] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/63fe0efe/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 14 20:35:27 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:35:27 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Prayer for children In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <061520090135.13918.4A35A55F00014C5E0000365E22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Hey Sandra, It is very humbling to know that my words encouraged you to pray. Thank you. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Shalom Eliron, I want to thank you for your encouraging words. It was your message that gave me the courage to pray. I was feeling that I could not pray, you helped me to see that my prayers are worthwhile. Shalom, Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/287a0351/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 14 20:37:05 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:37:05 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" In-Reply-To: References: <740A2123A7FE46409C4FE4B71AC87C6A@bettylaptop><061420090540.22400.4A348D5E000E2FB80000578022228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <061520090137.17358.4A35A5BE00061C17000043CE22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> It's good to be family Elisheva. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Eliron, Thank you for the affirmation of love. You pretty well wrapped up the whole point when you said, ?It's about each one of us working toward a deeper relationship with HaShem. If we all concentrated on that, there would be no time for strife.? A quantum leap? I surely hope so. Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty P.S. The author of the book I referred to was Rabbi Avraham Greenbaum, with whom many of us are familiar, not Greenberg. I did make the correction below. From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:41 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" Elisheva, You are loved. By us yes, but more significantly by HaShem. That is really the whole point I think. It's not about religion, religion only brings division. . If we all concentrated on that, there would be no time for strife. I think that this is what is meant in Isaiah 62. I think you just made a quantum leap. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Shalom Chaverim, I received a PR this morning and wanted to share it and some of the circumstances and thoughts surrounding it. I apologize ahead of time for the length, but if you will take the time to wade thru it, perhaps it will be an encouragement to you as it was to me?to continue seeking HaShem and to never give up?maybe this is what it means in the Shema when it says not only to love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, but with all your strength as well?love Him with all your strength even when you don?t feel that you have any strength left? Due to a lot of personal reasons that will go unnamed, I have really been struggling daily to keep my faith intact, even as a ?glowing ember??not so much my faith in HaShem because I know that He is Constant?it is me that is the problem. So this time of prayer and meditation that has been put forth in our joining together to pray for guidance regarding our children, grandchildren, etc., and all of HaShem?s children in ?Living the Shema? has come at a very appropriate time for me, and from reading some of your comments, a very appropriate time for many of us. Some of us have young children who are still at home that need guidance; some have teenagers who are struggling with their own identify that we are trying to reach out to; some have children who having already left our homes do not follow HaShem and His Torah; some have children and families from which they are estranged; some have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren who are struggling and hurting and beset by problems that as parents we just cannot fix. Some of us are going thru the heartbreaking process of realizing that our parents have become our children?and all this hurt doesn?t even include all that is going on in the lives of HaShem?s children in Eretz Israel and all over the world who are beset by constant life-threatening situations and hunger and sickness?There is just so much suffering and pain and hurt in the world?sometimes it makes one just want to find a secret hiding place and retreat from it all? As I kindled the Sabbath candles last night and thought of all of us and our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren? and all of HaShem?s children all over the world welcoming HaShem?s Sabbath into our homes ?I prayed the prayer that I had sent out to the list yesterday?and I prayed it with fervor?really meaning it?trying to see all of us thru the eyes of HaShem?and for a brief moment, in the midst of all the turmoil, I felt a sense of Sabbath peace? Yet I remember getting ready for bed last night and fighting against the negative thoughts that were trying to infiltrate my thinking?why all the suffering and hurt and problems just in our little group, why so much hurt surrounding my family, me? Why in the world can?t I just get beyond myself and all of this junk and really give it up to HaShem and not take it back? Maybe I am just too weak, or worse, maybe I am deluding myself?maybe I am just no good?there are so many people that pray more, study more, do more, what good am I anyway? How can I pray for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, friends or any children when I am feeling so worthless? Does HaShem even hear my prayers when I am like this? But then I argued with myself, saying?but HaShem knows my heart and that I have loved Him since I was a little girl and He knows that I am trying to live a good life and do the right thing?I just need to get past where I am now?I just need to try harder?I know that HaShem loves me?but? I don?t remember when I fell asleep, but it was sometime during the Bedtime Shema and the V?ahavta (?You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart??). When I got up this morning, I determined that I would go to shul whether I felt like it or not, and I would be determined to make this a day of prayer for what we had set before us in ?Living the Shema.? I did a little reading from a book that a dear friend had given me by Rabbi Avraham Greenbaum based on the writings of Rabbi Nachman?I ?just happened? to open the page to a quote that said, ?When words and cries don?t help, cry deep in your heart without letting out a sound.? That hit a chord, so I continued reading??sometimes when the crisis of faith is so great that even wordless cries cannot help, one has to cry from the heart alone.? ?Their heart cried out to HaShem.? ( Lamentations 2:18) The author says that the ?heart alone cries out to HaShem without letting out a sound.? He quotes Psalms 130:1, ?From the depths I call out to HaShem,? from the depths of the heart. And from the depths of the heart come guidance, for like ?deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man, Proverbs 20:5. When shouts and screams no longer help because faith has collapsed, one must cry from the depths of the heart without letting out a sound. This is how true counsel is revealed, he says, for ?like deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man.? Even though it was time for me to get dressed to go to shul, I was so moved by the passage that I felt compelled to get my tallit and pray. As I said the blessing and put it over my head, I dropped to the floor. As I knelt, I continued with the tallit blessing as I recited the beautiful and inspirational words taken from Psalms 36:8-11 from memory?with all my heart? ?How precious is your loving kindness O HaShem. Your children rest under the Shadow of your Wings? May they be sated from the abundance of your House? May you feed them with the streams of Your delights? For You are the Source of all Life, and in your Light do we have Light? Extend your steadfast Love to those who know you And your righteousness to the upright in heart.? I then began to ?cry? from my heart?with no words?and when I got up from the floor where I had been kneeling, tears filled my eyes and I was overcome with emotion?and I felt a sort of release?it is hard to explain. As I was folding up my tallit and putting it on my bookshelf, I sensed that maybe there was something else I needed to do. Without even thinking, the words came out of my mouth??HaShem do you have a PR for me this morning?? Immediately Psalms 32:11 came into my mind. I quickly grabbed my Bible and turned to the passage, wondering if I had really ?gotten? this from HaShem or if I had just made it up?I tried to push the latter from my mind?.When I turned to the passage, I gasped first in disbelief, then in awe?as I read the words, beginning from 32:10b? ?but he that trusts in HaShem, shall be surrounded by Love. Be glad in HaShem and rejoice, O you righteous; and shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart.? I was totally amazed at the words before me?I read them over and over?as I thought of all the thoughts I had had the night before, everything began to connect?all the hurts were hurts of the heart; Who knows our heart?Who is ?close to the brokenhearted and those crushed in spirit? What is the cure for all these hurts of the heart that sometimes cannot even find expression? The words in the Shema rang in my ears??You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart?, ?The words of the tallit blessing came to mind?and the words of the PR that HaShem had so graciously given me came to mind. When I cried to Him from the depths of my heart, He answered me. Again, I realize this is quite personal, and may appear to be self-centered. If some of you find it too personal, I apologize. I just felt compelled to share because I think that perhaps there may be others who are hurting that might be encouraged by some of the not new, but fresh realizations that have come to me this Shabbat during my times of prayer and reflection. HaShem loves each of us?with chesed, loving kindness. We can each find needed rest under the Shadow of His Wings. He is the Source of all Life and He gives us Light. He hears the cries of our hearts? If we continue to trust in Him and seek to know Him, we will find that we will be surrounded by love! He extends His righteousness to those who know Him, to the upright in heart! What should be our response to all of these wondrous promises? BE GLAD IN HASHEM AND REJOICE, O YOUR RIGHTEOUS; AND SHOUT FOR JOY, ALL YOU WHO ARE UPRIGHT IN HEART! We each know where our hearts are?may we each judge (palel) ourselves and not only pray the Shema daily, but continue to endeavor to find ways to live it with every chord of our being! Shavua tov to all on this the first day of Sabbath, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/5e1c9c3e/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Sun Jun 14 20:53:13 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:53:13 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' In-Reply-To: <855590370906141832t5efaf8dfpecd7198b6036b407@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370906141832t5efaf8dfpecd7198b6036b407@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: That's the red hand of Zerach in the Star of David. Zerach was the twin brother of Peretz. They were the sons of Judah and Tamar. Nial of the Nine Hostages of Ulster, who reigned from 379 to 405 CE claimed to be descended from Zerach, and that hand is also found in the O'Neill coat of arms because they are direct descendants of his. Also around the O'Neill coat of arms is a red ribbon for the red cord tied on Zerach's wrist when he stuck his hand out first, but then Peretz (whose name means "making a breach") cut in front of him and was born first. Jewish descendants DO turn up in the oddest places!!!!! Avigail Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:32:57 -0400 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Please read the report below (from Yair Davidy's Brit Am mailings), and look at the flags in Ulster County - Hanoch 3. Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner From: ENSEMBLE CLIFFORD-SMYTH On Saturday the 6th of June 2009, we passed through a newly built housing estate south west of Ballymena in Northern Ireland; as we approach the traditional annual commemorations of the Battle of the Boyne such Protestant, unionist and loyalists housing estates are bedecked in Union Jacks, Northern Ireland flags and other symbols of loyalty to the British Crown. A few years ago ,many of these estates adopted the Israeli flag and flew that flag too. Obviously Ulster loyalists find common cause with Israel in regard to their conflict over land & identity; this year though we encounter a new phenomenon someone has synthesised or fused or married the Northern Ireland flag with that of the state of Israel. ( I attach the pics. including a pic of me in my Titanic Tartan kilt ! But it's the flags we are interested in.) I have reports of Israeli flags flying in other parts of Ulster. Clifford Ulster Israeli Combined Banner Photos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/c786a7d4/attachment.html From jamesdtabor at earthlink.net Sun Jun 14 21:03:50 2009 From: jamesdtabor at earthlink.net (James Tabor) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:03:50 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Mt Zion: Let the Digging Begin! Message-ID: <00EC5783-664E-4D9A-AD61-41EBFDBC3D30@earthlink.net> Today, Sunday, June 14th we officially inagurated our 2009 excavations at Mt Zion. There was an air of excitement as our little band of six staff and 30 dedicated volunteers, gathered to clear the site of its winter foliage and wash. Our team this year is drawn from around the world with members from the United States, the UK, Russia, South America, and a half dozen other countries and regions. Our team threw themselves avidly into the first day?s work, even in the blazing heat of the middle of June. The site looks transformed in appearance even after one day?and we have four weeks to go! We truly are expecting great things this year, including descending down in to well preserved intact rooms and chambers from the 2nd Temple destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE. We are the only academic dig in Jerusalem in the past 30 years, offering a field archaeology school with full academic and scientific methods and oversight. We are also committed to preserving, not destroying, all levels of habitation in Jerusalem, the spiritual capital of the Western world, whether Turkish, Crusader, Arab, Byzantine, Roman, Jewish, or Canannite. Our site, situated on the slopes of Mt. Zion, the highest peak of the ?seven hills? of Jerusalem, has the advantage of sloping down to the south east and thus preserving a chronological record of ?Jerusalem through the Ages.? I have mentioned in previous posts that it costs a minimum of $90,000 to run a dig for a season, and given our recession, and a freeze in state funding through UNC Charlotte, we have less than half of what we need. I have had several people write and ask?why is archaeology so expensive? I can tell you it is not the wages paid to our students? they get none, but actually pay to dig with us?plus all their expenses. It is not the salaries of the staff?there are none. Most archaeologists sacrifice their time and energy as a labor of love and commitment to the field. It sort of gets in one?s blood. The costs almost all have to do with the logistics of soil moving and disposal, especially in an urban area, vehicle rentals, supplies and materials, tools and equipment, storage and curation of artifacts, and scientific tests. Even $90,000 is a lean budget and does not include conservation and post-excavation costs as explained in this report. For example, today we had a large earth moving front loader with a fleet of trucks lined up to remove one meter of modern garden fill around the parameters of our site. Five days works comes to $10,000, and that is just the beginning, as we will have multiple truckloads of soil removed over the next four weeks, as we dig carefully by in the stratigraphic layers. I hope readers of my Blog will consider joining our Web fund drive. I think the only way to fund archaeology during the recession is to take it to be people. We have raised nearly $10,000 with 91 contributers just in the past couple of weeks, but our drive seems to have stalled a bit since June 11th when I left to travel over here to Israel. Please join us and be a part of this historic and exciting endeavor by going directly to the Dig Mount Zion and ?Pitching In? at any amount. You can also follow our progress there. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/372e9834/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mtzion1stday6-09-500x333.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66667 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/372e9834/attachment.jpg From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 14 21:28:37 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:28:37 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Netanyahu's speech today In-Reply-To: <061520090132.9374.4A35A4AB000DE1F40000249E22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <855590370906141220n7a9cd5adr4681fe47ef3da064@mail.gmail.com><061520090039.11898.4A35983C000B640200002E7A22230650629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <855590370906141812j237ef5dej21e964cbe550c94c@mail.gmail.com> <061520090132.9374.4A35A4AB000DE1F40000249E22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: John, Your question."Does anyone think that the PA is going to recognize Israel as a state? " This was my question exactly when I read this post. And our buddy, Hanoch, gave a great answer.as usual. This is the $64,000 question ( for those of you who are old enough to remember that TV show years ago.! Interesting times indeed! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:32 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Netanyahu's speech today You're right Hanoch, I meant to say Jewish state. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Hey folks - Well, in the original Oslo Accords (1993), the PLO was supposed to amend their charter calling for the destruction of the State of Israel; they never did, and of course, idiots that we are, we never called them on it. We just kept ignoring (with the urging of the White House, of course) what they were and weren't saying vs what they were doing. And remember, it's not just recognizing Israel as a state, but as a JEWISH state! Now, frankly, I don't think they will, just as Arafat (may he rot forever) didn't take everything Barak had offered him, and launched the Oslo War. However, I learned an important lesson many years ago in the Bronx - never threaten (or, in this case - offer) to do something you aren't willing to actually do. Bibi threw down the gauntlet, but what happens if the Arabs call his bluff?? We are definitely living in "interesting times." Hanoch On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:39 PM, wrote: Does anyone think that the PA is going to recognize Israel as a state? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- JTA Breaking News Alert June 14, 2009 Netanyahu OK with a demilitarized Palestinian state JERUSALEM (JTA) -- Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel would agree to a demilitarized Palestinian state. in a major foreign policy address Sunday at Bar-Ilan University, Netanyahu also said the Palestinians to have a state must recognize Israel as a Jewish state."It is impossible to agree on the principle of a Palestinian state without these" conditions, he said, according to an English translation provided with a video feed on the Bar-Ilan University Web site. If Israel receives assurances that the two conditions are met, Netanyahu said, "we will be ready in the future" for a "demilitarized Palestinian state that exists alongside a Jewish state." Such a demilitarized state, he said, could not import weapons, make pacts with enemies of Israel and would not be able to close its airspace to Israel. Netanyahu also called for immediate peace talks with Palestinian leaders, without preconditions. "We want both Israeli and Palestinian children to live without war," he said, citing the root of conflict to the refusal of regional entities to accept Israel as Jewish state. "We must ask ourselves, why has peace not yet arrived after 60 years?" Netanyahu, whose Bar-Ilan address was called a response to President Obama's Cairo speech earlier this month in which the U.S. leader tried to reach out to the world's Muslims, said he was prepared to meet with the leaders of neighboring Arab countries at any time to promote regional peace. "We want peace in Damascus, in Riyadh, in Beirut, and also in Jerusalem," he said. In another portion of the speech that was closely watched at the White House, Netanyahu said that Israel had no intention of creating new West Bank settlements or expanding existing towns, but said there is a "need to allow residents to live normal lives." The Israeli leader did not expound. The United States has demanded all settlement activity be stopped, including "natural growth." Netanyahu added that settlers are not "enemies of peace" but "are our brothers." He reiterated his deep concern over Iran. "The Iranian threat looms large in front of us, as we learned yesterday," Netanyahu said, referring to the apparent re-election of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, which has brought protests in the Islamic Republic over the fairness of the election. "The greatest danger" to the region, he said, is the intersection between "radical Islam and nuclear weapons." The prime minister also said that Jerusalem must remain united and that the Palestinian refugee problem "must be resolved outside Israel's borders." In an apparent response to Obama's statement in Cairo that the creation of Israel was "rooted in the tragic history" of the Holocaust, Netanyahu emphasized that the "connection between the land of Israel and the Jewish people has lasted more than 3,500 years." "This is not an alien land, this is the land of our forefathers," he said. "This is the homeland of the Jewish people, this is where our identity was forged." For updates on this story, visit JTA.org. _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/2d026d85/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 14 21:46:13 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:46:13 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] From today's front page (online) Israel Nationa News In-Reply-To: <061520090054.29412.4A359BB000053E06000072E422230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <855590370906140915u427ca7c1qd62445c2ac7c0474@mail.gmail.com> <061520090054.29412.4A359BB000053E06000072E422230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: A quantum leap for sure!!! Most Excellent, John! (That is two in one day from the same family :-).although I must say that my brother's is a much bigger one!) Baruch HaShem!!! I subscribe to Arutz Sheva as well and when it popped up in my email, I scanned the articles, saw the title and was going to 'come back' to check it out, but you beat me to it! Thanks so much for calling this to our attention! WOW! Actually, I need to give credit where credit is due, it was our brother Hanoch who posted the original message! This is fantastic. Thank you achi! I am definitely going to pass this on in my own Jewish community. We are besieged by Christians down here in the Bible Belt. I may get very brave and send it to the rabbi of our Huge Messianic synagogue here. He might not appreciate it. Whaduya think? Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:54 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] From today's front page (online) Israel Nationa News Excellent! Another quantum leap! -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- >From the front page of today's Arutz Sheva news (israelnationalnews.com ); check THIS out!!! Go to the site, I was able to paste it as it appears. Hanoch t News Briefs Israel Time: 7:00 PM More Israel news picture $B!|(B Make A7 Your Homepage Sivan 22, 5769 / June 14, '09 Revisiting New Testament: Was Jesus Just a Normal Human Being? by Susan Wolf (IsraelNN.com) In sharp contrast to the popular belief that Jesus was the Christian deity and preached so during his lifetime, Professor James Tabor says that research clearly shows that Jesus was a normal human being and never claimed to be G-d. "History clearly shows that Jesus was a Jewish human being, born through natural conception, and had a human father. It was only after his natural death that that the Christian religion emerged and Jesus became a god," says Prof. Tabor, the Chair of the Department of Religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Charlotte. Prof. James Tabor intv'w - Part I IsraelNationalRadio.com 00:00 Embed Video - Copy code to embed video in HTML document Download the above mp3 file Speaking on Israel National Radio's Tovia Singer show, Tabor charges that Jesus was a Jew who hoped to redeem Israel but never claimed to be G-d. According to Tabor, the entire chronology of the New Testament is contradictory at best. While Jesus died in 30 A.D., Paul of Tarsus only began to write twenty years later, in 50 A.D. Professor Tabor's upcoming book on Paul will detail how there was no Christian following whatsoever before Paul. Even more contradictory, Paul refers to Jesus as the seed of David and not as a product of immaculate conception. Prof. James Tabor intv'w - Part II IsraelNationalRadio.com 00:00 Embed Video - Copy code to embed video in HTML document Download the above mp3 file Professor Tabor's research is described in full in his new book Restoring Abrahamic Faith. He just completed a manifesto of Biblical theology rooted in the Jewish Bible in which he presents novel ideas that present a fresh view of the origin of Christianity. Jesus knew nothing about Easter, Christmas or the Last Supper, he says. In actuality, the site of the "Last Supper" is merely the location where Jesus blessed on bread. The notion that Jesus commanded the drinking of his blood and the eating of his body has no historical basis whatsoever, Tabor adds; the Holy Communion developed only after the death of Jesus. His previous book - The Jesus Dynasty - reached the New York Times best-seller list, shaking up even Ted Koppel of 20/20 nightline with its conclusions. His latest work, Restoring Abrahamic Faith, is based on four decades of research on the historical Jesus and explores the Bible without any preconceived notions. A Ben Noah In The Jesus Dynasty, Tabor presented a historical investigation of Jesus and his family with ideas that naturally antagonize many from the Roman Catholic Church. When asked why he doesn't consider conversion to Judaism, Tabor explains that alongside his love for Judaism and his knowledge that the Jews are G-d's chosen people, he believes the Jews are meant to be a minority in G-d's divine plan, and he is comfortable with his place as a declared Ben Noah or Noahide. The belief in Israel's mission to bring light to the world does not necessitate that everyone be Jewish, he says. Moreover, Prof. Tabor believes that he can accomplish substantially more from outside of Judaism, and therefore continues his research and writings with the hope that he can expose Christianity and all religions to a proper historical investigation. Support from Christian pastors Tabor believes that Jerusalem must remain under Israeli sovereignty. In addition, he explains that the Israelis are the most natural and fair broker for the region and are the only ones who actually maintain peace, whereas diverse religious groups, including Armenians, Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Egyptian Copts and other Christians cannot even agree on who should open the Holy Sepulcher in the morning, based on a tradition of passing around the key. It is only the Israelis who have prevented actual bloodshed amongst the various clergymen and have brought harmony to the region. Although Restoring Abrahamic Faith may be controversial in many settings, Tabor has already received intense support and interest from Christian pastors. Tabor has proven that the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam can be traced back to the great Abrahamic Faith, despite the different directions in which they all developed. His biblically-based expositions from the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings of the Hebrew Bible combine to present a stimulating viewpoint with a solid historical basis. For more information on the story of G-d's great plan, as it applies to all of mankind, visit Prof. Tabor's website www.genesis2000.org . Hear the two interviews with Prof. James Tabor on Israel National Radio: Hear Part 1 Hear Part 2 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/7b00e090/attachment.html From dstone34 at cox.net Sun Jun 14 21:49:00 2009 From: dstone34 at cox.net (Diana Stone) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:49:00 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Help Message-ID: <17DA7C0D901A4A2DB95AE847664C3CDF@toshibauser> Hey Folks, I don't know if this a technical problem on my end or whether others are having a similar problem. I tried to access the Roots of Faith site to listen to Ross's program yesterday and I received the following message. I tried to access it again tonight and receive the same thing... Are there any teche guru types in our group that why I am receiving the message below or why I cannot access Ross's site. I am able to access other websites as well as radio/audio programs.... Forbidden You don't have permission to access /blog-and-podcasts/ on this server. Shalom, Diana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/dd6031c7/attachment.html From rossknichols at me.com Sun Jun 14 21:56:17 2009 From: rossknichols at me.com (Ross Nichols) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:56:17 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Help In-Reply-To: <17DA7C0D901A4A2DB95AE847664C3CDF@toshibauser> References: <17DA7C0D901A4A2DB95AE847664C3CDF@toshibauser> Message-ID: <8C03D969-EF29-4BB4-BEB8-3F269100852B@me.com> The address has changed. Go to www.rootsoffaith.org and try that. Shalom and please let me know if this does not fix the problem. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 14, 2009, at 9:49 PM, Diana Stone wrote: > Hey Folks, > > I don't know if this a technical problem on my end or whether others > are having a similar problem. I tried to access the Roots of Faith > site to listen to Ross's program yesterday and I received the > following message. I tried to access it again tonight and receive > the same thing... Are there any teche guru types in our group that > why I am receiving the message below or why I cannot access Ross's > site. I am able to access other websites as well as radio/audio > programs.... > > Forbidden > You don't have permission to access /blog-and-podcasts/ on this > server. > > Shalom, > > Diana > > > > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/2c9ac5c1/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 14 22:08:10 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 03:08:10 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] From today's front page (online) Israel Nationa News In-Reply-To: References: <855590370906140915u427ca7c1qd62445c2ac7c0474@mail.gmail.com><061520090054.29412.4A359BB000053E06000072E422230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <1834542412-1245035353-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-770044820-@bxe1160.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Go for it Elisheva. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Betty K Givin" Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:46:13 To: Subject: RE: [Dialogue] From today's front page (online) Israel Nationa News _______________________________________________ From dhcole1 at cox.net Sun Jun 14 22:26:42 2009 From: dhcole1 at cox.net (Dave Cole) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:26:42 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Help References: <17DA7C0D901A4A2DB95AE847664C3CDF@toshibauser> <8C03D969-EF29-4BB4-BEB8-3F269100852B@me.com> Message-ID: Hello Diana. Sorry to learn that you could not access the website. Did clicking on the link given by Ross (below) work. If not, the message "You don't have permission to access /blog-and-podcasts/ on this server" sounds as if "the server" is the internet provider that you are using. So It may be at your end. As far as I can tell there are no others having a similar problem. I was able to access the site from several different sources and using .org .net and .com Let us know if you still can't access this site and we will look into this end further. Let us know! Shalom, dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Ross Nichols To: List Dialogue Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Help The address has changed. Go to www.rootsoffaith.org and try that. Shalom and please let me know if this does not fix the problem. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 14, 2009, at 9:49 PM, Diana Stone wrote: Hey Folks, I don't know if this a technical problem on my end or whether others are having a similar problem. I tried to access the Roots of Faith site to listen to Ross's program yesterday and I received the following message. I tried to access it again tonight and receive the same thing... Are there any teche guru types in our group that why I am receiving the message below or why I cannot access Ross's site. I am able to access other websites as well as radio/audio programs.... Forbidden You don't have permission to access /blog-and-podcasts/ on this server. Shalom, Diana _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/21c032d3/attachment.html From rossknichols at me.com Sun Jun 14 22:32:06 2009 From: rossknichols at me.com (Ross Nichols) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:32:06 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Help In-Reply-To: References: <17DA7C0D901A4A2DB95AE847664C3CDF@toshibauser> <8C03D969-EF29-4BB4-BEB8-3F269100852B@me.com> Message-ID: <8AF7334E-6F78-46C0-BFDF-BB6F23FD7FF9@me.com> The "blog-and-podcasts" location was the location for my files before we changed the site over. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 14, 2009, at 10:26 PM, Dave Cole wrote: > Hello Diana. Sorry to learn that you could not access the website. > Did clicking on the link given by Ross (below) work. If not, the > message "You don't have permission to access /blog-and-podcasts/ on > this server" sounds as if "the server" is the internet provider > that you are using. So It may be at your end. As far as I can tell > there are no others having a similar problem. I was able to access > the site from several different sources and using .org .net and .com > > Let us know if you still can't access this site and we will look > into this end further. Let us know! > > Shalom, > dave > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ross Nichols > To: List Dialogue > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Help > > The address has changed. Go to www.rootsoffaith.org and try that. > Shalom and please let me know if this does not fix the problem. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 9:49 PM, Diana Stone wrote: > >> Hey Folks, >> >> I don't know if this a technical problem on my end or whether >> others are having a similar problem. I tried to access the Roots >> of Faith site to listen to Ross's program yesterday and I received >> the following message. I tried to access it again tonight and >> receive the same thing... Are there any teche guru types in our >> group that why I am receiving the message below or why I >> cannot access Ross's site. I am able to access other websites as >> well as radio/audio programs.... >> >> Forbidden >> You don't have permission to access /blog-and-podcasts/ on this >> server. >> >> Shalom, >> >> Diana >> >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/4302b61e/attachment.html From im50332 at bigpond.net.au Sun Jun 14 23:03:11 2009 From: im50332 at bigpond.net.au (Pamela Barbera) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:03:11 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Never give up !! References: <4A357291.2020503@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <3EAD79CFBDB24CB3AD4D9C163C82EAB2@pamelahome> Dear Joe, very inspiring. Hanoch, thank you for all the articles you post. Shavuah Tov, Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: JOE INDOMENICO To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:58 AM Subject: [Dialogue] Never give up !! Shalom Chaverim, after reading some of your posts, I can relate to the feelings of ineptitude and negativity that challenge each and everyone of us throughout our entire lives. In a way it is a blessing in disguise. The following article by Rabbi Price has been of immense help to me. The confrontation between Eliyahu ha Navi and the prophets of ba'al is another priceless lesson for all of us. I will post this at another time due to the size of this current post. May HaShem strengthen and encourage each and everyone of us. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. NEVER GIVE UP! By RABBI SHLOMO PRICE It is now Lag Baomer 5764, the yahrzeit of Rabbi Shimeon bar Yochai, a talmid of Rabbi Akiva, and I'm beginning, bezrat Hashem, a new sichah entitled "Never Give Up!" Lag Baomer is a very befitting day to write about not giving up, as this certainly applies to Rabbi Akiva, the Rebbi of Rav Shimon bar Yochai. We all know that despite his not learning Torah till he was forty, he didn't give up, and he still became the great Rabbi Akiva. I heard from Rabbi Friedlander in the name of the Ari z'l, that Moshe Rabbeinu was the Yesod-foundation of the Written Torah, and Rabbi Akiva was the Yesod-foundation of the Oral Torah. [My wife pointed out that Rabbi Akiva never gave up. Although seeing his twenty-four thousand talmidim perish, he didn't give up. He proceeded to teach another five talmidim, who turned out to be those who kept Torah alive during that difficult period.] This is also an important foundation for Kabolat HaTorah which is coming in a few weeks on Shavuot. There is a common problem that many of us have that causes us to despair and give up. We may be doing well when all of a sudden we fall down. Consequently, we get depressed and give up. One of the reasons this happens is because we have an unrealistic expectation of what life is supposed to be like. This is discussed at length by Rabbi Abraham Twersky, in his book "Getting Up When You're Down", p.115-116 . He explains that this problem is when people don't approve of reality. They have unrealistic expectations. For example, they expect to start the car every morning without a problem, have their employers appreciate them, and their children to be promptly obedient when they are told to do something. When things don't happen the way they expect, then they are depressed and dissatisfied and are looking for some therapy or magic pill that will alleviate their situation. The trouble is, there is none (except in escaping reality which is not a remedy but a temporary copping out which doesn't last. I explained this point in "How to Face Reality"). Rabbi Twersky compares this to a story told about the great escape artist "Harry Houdini" (I remember reading that he was a Jew by the name of Eric Weiss). He had the ability to escape from the most confining locks and cells. Once a prison warden boasted that he had a cell that even the great "Houdini" couldn't unlock. Houdini promptly accepted the challenge. Once left in the cell, Houdini began working on opening the lock. To his astonishment, no matter how hard he tried, he couldn't throw open the bolt. He worked more carefully, but still without success. Finally, in his exhaustion, he leaned against the door, which swung right open. It was never locked. Even the great "Houdini" cannot open a lock that wasn't locked. Rabbi Twersky points out that we can learn from this story that treatment can be effective only when there is an abnormality that needs to be fixed. If a person just has an unrealistic expectation of the world and expects it to always conform to his wishes, then he is beyond the ken of any psychiatrist or psychologist to treat. Perhaps a rabbi whose authority the person respects can spell reality out to him, so that he can make the necessary, if sometimes inconvenient adjustments to the real world.(Till here is from Rabbi Twersky). Included also in this problem, is an unrealistic expectation of OURSELVES. We don't realize what can really be expected of us. We expect from ourselves unrealistic achievements, and when we don't live up to them we feel like we are failures. We think that a Tzaddik (righteous person) never falls and if we fall we are not Tzaddikim. My Rebbi, shlita, in the name of Rabbi Zeidel Epstien, shlita, taught us that this is a very dangerous mistake that could lead people to ultimately giving up. The antidote is to know what the Torah teaches us about what to expect from ourselves. In Rabbi Epstien's sefer on Chumash, "Haorot" on Breishit p. 38, he beautifully illustrates what the Torah really expects from us. He writes that Shlomo Hamelech tells us in Mishlei Proverbs 24:16: "Ki Sheva Yipol Tzaddik Vekum, Ureshaim Yikashalu Berah.- A Righteous person falls many (see Ralbag there) times and he gets up , and wicked people stumble with evil (without arising)" Even a Tzaddik falls many times but the difference between him and a wicked person is that HE DOESN'T GIVE UP-HE GETS UP and continues once again on the right path. A wicked person falls and gives up. With this point Rabbi Epstien sheds light on a puzzling and enigmatic Midrash. In Breishit Rabbah 3:7 [and 9:2] it says that before the creation of this world, Hashem created other worlds and destroyed them. When He created this world He said "This [world] brings me pleasure, the others did not bring me pleasure [that is why He destroyed them]. " Now, this is quite hard to understand. We know that by Hashem there doesn't exist the concept of knowing something later that he didn't know before. So, when he created those other worlds, he knew beforehand that He would not like them, so why did He create them? Rabbi Epstien answers that Hashem acted out the "motions" of creating, apparently regretting, destroying, and creating again many times until He finally succeeded in order to show us the foundation we mentioned before. Don't give up. No matter how many times we fall, we must try again many times until we finally succeed. Hashem is telling us, as it were, Look at Me, even I "failed" many times until I succeeded. We may wonder why is it that we fluctuate so violently? One moment we can be submerged in Torah and Mitzvot, and all of a sudden, in the middle, we can get the most impure thoughts and want to sin. Are we normal? The answer is, of course we are normal human beings. We just have to realize what a normal human being is. I explained at length in "Letter to an Alumnus, II" that Hashem created the human being with two opposing desires. The Torah tells us (Breishit-Genesis 2:7) that Hashem made the body from "the dust of the earth" so it has animalistic desires. Then Hashem blew the Neshama-Soul into the body. This is, as it were, a piece of G-dliness that has only spiritual desires. Consequently, there is a constant battle between them and our job is to have the Neshama win over the animalistic desires. But it is quite understandable that just as in any battle between two enemies, one moment one side can be winning, and the next moment the other side can be winning. The main thing is to remember that, even if we lose a battle, we can still win the war. There is a beautiful letter from Rabbi Yitzchok Hutner, ztl, that he wrote to a talmid [student] who was very discouraged. The talmid was lamenting obstacles and slumps and wanted to give up. It was written in his Letters #128 and was translated in the Jewish Observer, December, 1981. I appreciate their prompt faxing me of this article when I requested it. In part he writes: ".A failing many of us suffer from is, that when we consider the aspects of perfection of our sages, we focus on the ultimate level of their attainments..while omitting mention of the inner struggles that had previously raged within them. A listener would get the impression that these individuals came out of the hand of their Creator in full-blown form. Everyone is awed at the purity of speech of the Chofetz Chaim, z.t.l., considering it a miraculous phenomenon. But who knows of the battles, struggles and obstacles, the slumps and regressions that the Chofetz Chaim encountered in his war with the yetzer hara (evil inclination)? There are many such examples, to which a discerning individual such as yourself can certainly apply the rule. The result of this failing is that when an ambitious young man of spirit and enthusiasm meets obstacles, falls and slumps, he imagines himself as unworthy of being 'planted in the house of Hashem.' According to this young man's fancy, flourishing in the house of Hashem means to repose with calm spirit on 'lush meadows' beside 'tranquil waters' (Tehilim-Psalm 23) delighting in the yetzer hatov [good inclination], in the manner of the righteous delighting in the reflection of the Shechina [Divine Presence], with crowns on their heads, gathered in Gan Eden [Garden of Eden]. And at the same time, untroubled by the agitation of the yetzer hara.. Know, however, my dear friend, that your soul is rooted not in the TRANQUILITY of the yetzer tov, but rather in the BATTLE of the yetzer tov. And your precious warm-hearted letter 'testifies as one hundred witnesses' that you are a worthy warrior in the battalion of the yetzer tov. The English expression, 'Lose a battle and win a war' applies. Certainly you have stumbled, and will tumble again (a self-fulfilling prophecy is not intended) and in many battles you will fall lame. I promise you, though, that after those losing campaigns you will emerge from the war with the laurels of victory upon your head..Lose battles but win wars." Rabbi Hutner also explains on the posuk in Mishlei "..Sheva yipol Tzaddik Vekom,-A Tzaddik falls many times- and he gets up," that "the essence of the tzaddik's rising again is by way of his seven falls." He writes further, "I beg of you, do not portray for yourself great men as being as one with their yetzer tov. Picture rather their greatness in terms of an awesome war with every base and low inclination. When you feel the turmoil of the yetzer within yourself, know that with that feeling you resemble great people far more than with the feeling of deep peace, which you desire." I also saw a related point in the Artscroll Eicha (p. xlvii). Rabbi Nosson Scherman brings in his Overview the posuk in Micha 7:8, when the Jewish nation says: "Al tismichi oyavti li ki nafalti kamti ki eishev bachoshech Hashem ohr li.-Rejoice not against me, my enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness Hashem shall be a light to me." The Midrash Tehillim 22 comments, "Ilmaley nafalti lo kamti ilmaley yoshavti bachoshech lo haya ohr li-Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in the darkness, He would not have been a light for me." He elaborates further, "..there are special qualities in various times during the year. The forty days beginning with Rosh Chodesh Tammuz, and especially Tisha b'Av, are times of enormous tragedy and catastrophe. But the very tragedy holds within it the seeds of redemption. 'From the very fall will come the arising'- no one can rise up without falling first. 'From the very darkness will come the light'- the darkest, most hopeless part of the night precedes the dawn. Dark it is, but it is a prelude to the sunrise. From the moment the Temple was destroyed, Mashiach [Messiah] was born (Midrash Abba Gorion). With the Destruction, Hashem stripped away the layers of materialism. It could have been- should have been- the blaze of light that forced open eyes that were blinded to the Divine Presence. Tradition tells us that Mashiach's birthdate is Tisha b'Av. This is because the bleakest tragedy holds within it the lesson that brings redemption, and so it contains the seeds of redemption." There is also a very inspirational sicha from Rabbi Chaim Shmulevitz, ztl. that expounds on this verse from Micha and the Midrash. (It is found in the English "Reb Chaim's Discourses"-p.65, in the Hebrew "Sichot Mussar" -of 5731, Maamar 16-and of 5732, Maamar 37, in the new Hebrew edition-Maamar 93. The source of the Midrash is cited there also in Midrash Shocher Tov, Tehilim 5). He says, "Paradoxical as it may seem, Israel's lapses and dark nights serve as both preparation to and prerequisite of its ascension to greatness. This is true not only of Israel as a nation, but also each individual in his own battle with his yetzer hara experiences periods of darkness. And it is these periods of darkness that enable one to clearly perceive the truth, discerning the light by its contrast to the darkness." He then brings two remarkable stories from the Midrash Rabbah [Breishit 65:22] about two Jewish "traitors" who fell so low, and yet, in the depth of the abyss they were able to perceive the light that had escaped them earlier and it was this perception which enabled them to repent. ".When the enemies [of the Jewish people] desired to enter the Temple Mount, they declared, 'Let a Jew enter first.' They told Yosef of Shisa, 'Enter, and whatever you bring out is yours.' He entered and brought out a golden candelabra. They told him, 'It is not fitting for a commoner to use this, but enter again and whatever you bring out is yours.' He, however, refused, saying, 'Enough that I have angered my Creator once, shall I anger him a second time?' What did they do to him? They put him into a carpenter's vise and dragged him over it. He cried again and again, 'Woe unto me that I have angered my Creator.'" Rav Chaim comments, "The depths of depravity to which Yosef had sunk are indescribable. He dared enter the place that even Israel's enemies feared to enter. He emerged carrying the menorah, without the most elementary understanding that 'it is not befitting a commoner to make use of it'- an understanding that even the Romans had. It was only when this grievous error was pointed out to him that he became aware of how low he had sunk. It was this profound awareness of the darkness surrounding him that caused Hashem to enlighten him, and prompted him to defy the Romans. ..It is clear that had he not sunk so low, he would never had risen to such heights. Had he not been in the blackest darkness, he would never have been able to act in so courageous a manner." The Midrash then tells of another Jewish "traitor" who experienced a light whose source is darkness. "Yokum of Tzerorot was the nephew of R' Yossi ben Yoezer of Tzeredah. Once he was riding a horse on Shabbat when he came upon his uncle who was being carried on a horse on his way to the gallows. He exclaimed, 'Look at the horse that my master let me ride and look at the horse that your Master has made you ride.' (i.e. I am indulging in sin and am fortunate in my lot, while you are engaged in Torah and mitzvot all your life and will probably be hung). [R' Yossi] replied, 'If this is the lot of those who anger Hashem, how much more the reward for those who do his will?' Countered [Yakum] 'Has anyone done His will more than you?' He replied, 'If this how [Hashem] acts towards those who do His will, how much more with those who anger Him?' The impact of this reply entered into his heart like a serpent's venom. He went and subjected himself to the four methods [of execution].Yossi fell asleep and saw Yakum's bed flying in the air. He exclaimed, 'In a brief moment he has precede me into the Garden of Eden.'" Here also Rav Chaim points out that, "Yakum had watched his uncle being led to his execution without displaying the slightest bit of compassion and sensitivity. To the contrary, he mocked R' Yossi about his faith and beliefs and told him that his martyrdom was in vain. Instead of supporting his uncle in those trying moments, he mocked him. It was because of this callousness and stoneheartedness that when R' Yossi's words did make an impact on him, they struck him like the venom of a serpent. 'Had it not been for the darkness enveloping him, he would never have perceived the light.'" Rav Chaim asks, "Why is it so? How does sin serve as the lever to elevate a person?" He answers, ".The primary impediment to self-improvement and growth is the lethargy of routine and inertia. Not only does it hamper a person's spiritual growth but it renders him totally insensitive as well..habit and routine can turn even the fear of G-d into a mechanical reflex!..It is only the shock of the clear perception of one's downfall that awakens and rouses one to action. The impact of this realization when fully harnessed can elevate one to new heights." I compare this to a person who is suffering from a very serious disease. The problem is that the symptoms start off very lightly, as if it's a minor disease. Only when the disease progresses, then the symptoms worsen. Consequently, the fellow will not realize the severity of his illness until his symptoms reach a severe stage. So too, one who is suffering from sin may not realize how serious the problem is until his symptoms reach a very serious stage, when he falls to such a low level. Even throughout history, we find examples of those who never gave up even after failing many times. In fact they use these obstacles as steppingstones to their success. In "Chicken Soup For The Soul" they bring many stories to illustrate "not giving up" no matter what. They bring a sketch of the rise of a very famous American personality despite all his failures. At the age of : 7 His family was forced out of their home and he had to work to support them. 9 His mother died. 22 Failed in business. 23 Ran for state legislature and lost, he lost his job and couldn't get in to law school. 24 Borrowed some money from a friend to start a business and he went bankrupt. He spent the next 17 years of his life paying off this debt. 25 Ran for state legislature again and won. 26 Was engaged to be married, his bride died and his heart was broken. 27 Had a total nervous breakdown and was in bed for six months. 29 Sought to become speaker of the state legislature and lost. 31 Sought to become elector and lost. 34 Ran for Congress and lost. 37 Ran for Congress and won. 39 Ran for re-election to Congress and lost. 40 Sought the job of land officer in his home and was rejected. 45 Ran for the Senate of the United States and lost. 47 Sought the Vice-Presidential nomination at his party's national convention and got less than 100 votes. 49 Ran for U.S. Senate again and lost. 51 Elected president of the United States. And what a president he was. He was one of the greatest presidents in American history. It was none other than Abraham Lincoln! After losing a senate race, he was quoted as saying, "The path was worn and slippery. My foot slipped from under me, knocking the other out of the way, but I recovered and said to myself, 'It's a slip and not a fall'" Thomas Edison invented the light bulb. He had tried over 2,000 experiments before he got it to work. A young reporter asked him how it felt to fail so many times . He said, "I never failed once. I invented the light bulb. It just happened to be a 2000 -step process." A certain school teacher, Mr. Schlatter, had a student early in his career, who was very troublesome. He was a bully, a thief, and always getting suspended. Everyday, Mr. Schlatter would have the class memorize some famous inspirational sayings and repeat them at roll call. Among them were, "If you can see the obstacles, you've taken your eyes of the goal." , "There is no failure except in no longer trying." This troublesome student complained the most about this routine until he was expelled from the school. They lost touch for five years when all of a sudden the student called Mr. Schlatter. He was at a special program at one of the neighboring colleges and had just finished parole. He told Mr. Schlatter, that after being sent to different prisons for his antics he had become so disgusted with himself that he had taken a razor blade and cut his wrists. "You know what , Mr. Schlatter, as I lay there with my life running out of my body, I suddenly remembered that dumb quote you made me write 20 times one day. 'There is no failure except in no longer trying.' Then it suddenly made sense to me. As long as I was alive, I wasn't a failure, but if I allowed myself to die, I would most certainly die a failure. So with my remaining strength, I called for help and started a new life." The following story is from the "Readers' Digest." Many people know the name of Greta Waitz as the winner of the women's N.Y. Marathon for 9 consecutive years. It maybe took her about 2 hours to run some 20+ miles ending in Central Park. Well there is another woman, who may not be as famous, who took about 25 + hours to "run" the same route, but she may be even a bigger winner than Greta Waitz. Her name is Zoe Kopolowitz and she suffers from a severe degenerating disease. As hard as it was, she didn't give up and she made it till the finish line. In fact when Gretta Waitz met her, she asked her who is waiting for her at the finish line. Zoe told her that nobody was. She would just call in her finishing time and get a finisher's medal. When Greta heard this, she was upset and said that she deserved that someone should be at the finishing line to greet her. Greta concluded, "I would be honored to be that person, I will be there for you." For the last few years, Greta was always there to greet her and put a finisher's medal on her. In fact they both go to various schools to speak about the different forms of "winning". Greta talks about following a strict regimen and Zoe speaks about not giving up no matter how hard it gets and as the poster on her wall says, "The race doesn't only belong to the swift and strong, but to those who keep on running" We can apply this point especially to those of us who try to keep certain schedules or sedorim like Daf Yomi ( a page a day in the Babylonian Talmud) or learning Chumash. When we see it's hard, fall behind or see someone who is way ahead of us, we just give up. We shouldn't. We should remember that even if it's hard, we are not as fast as others or we are way behind the schedule, we should "keep on running" and never give up. So we'll reach the finish line later than others. We are still winners in a much more important race than the Marathon. The race to have a" happier life in this world and the next." When the Yetzer Hara- Evil Inclination fights us, and wants us to give up, we should not get discouraged. On the contrary, this is a good sign. He is afraid of how good we can become and he wants to stop us. When someone wants to cut down a huge tree with many branches. He can either cut the whole tree down at one time from the trunk. Or he can cut it down branch by branch. Everyone understands that the best way is to cut it all at once so you won't have to cut each branch by itself. The Yetzer Hara knows this too. He figures that if I let this fellow grow in Torah and Mitzvothe will "sprout branches". He will have "kinderlech-children" who will also keep Torah and Mitzvot. Then I will have a hard job of fighting him and his children. It is smarter for me to "cut him down" and make him give up, so I won't have to worry about the branches. I will end off with a story that I heard from my Rebbi. There was a Jew who came to a certain town to collect tzedakah-charity. He was an eloquent and dynamic speaker and even the Rabbi was impressed with him. After the speech the Jew asked the Rabbi to go with him from door to door to collect money. Having the Rabbi with him will be more impressive, so people will give more. The Rabbi consented. People gave generously. The first person gave $100, the second $50, and the third $200. Before they continued to the next person, the Rabbi took this Jew to a dark isolated alley and picked him up by his lapels. He said to him gruffly, "If you don't tell me the truth right now, I'll kill you right here on the spot. Who are you?!" The Jew begged the Rabbi to put him down and agreed to confess. "I am really a meshumad-apostate, a Jew who converted to another religion. I became a priest and I was really collecting for my church. But Rabbi, where did I slip up? How did you see through my ruse?" The Rabbi laughed and responded, "You were perfect, you didn't slip up at all. In fact, you fooled me completely. But this is not the first time that I've collected money in this town. Whenever I went for a worthy cause, I had a real tough time even getting $10 from these people. When I went with you, they were literally throwing their money at you. Then the question dawned upon me, If it was such a worthy cause, then where is the Yetzer Hara? Why isn't he stopping them like he always does? That's when it hit me. You are collecting for HIM-THE YETZER HARA (your church). That's why he's even helping you. We should learn from all of these things that when we get the urge to give up, it's a good sign and par for the course. We should be able to fight back especially by davening-praying to Hashem. No matter what, even if we lose, we have to remember that we are only "losing the battle" but we can "win the war." It is "only a slip" and "not a fall." May we incorporate these lessons and be zocheh-merit to the true Kabolat Hatorah. List of Rabbi Price's sichot Back to Neveh Homepage ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/c98a40c3/attachment.html From im50332 at bigpond.net.au Sun Jun 14 23:05:51 2009 From: im50332 at bigpond.net.au (Pamela Barbera) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:05:51 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" References: <3BF5084DF2BF4FB586A6D17480B5693C@SPLITPIN> Message-ID: <1327B8630962491BBEAB41EC26686276@pamelahome> Dear Sandra, I'm still praying for you. Be of good courage, I think you will find Joes article today about not giving up very useful and encouraging. I know I did. Shalom and Blessings, Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: Sandra Inglis To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:10 PM Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" Shalom Elisheva, Thank you so much for sharing with us your prayer and the circumstances surrounding it. As I read about your circumstances and how you were feeling, it was like I was reading about myself. I have also been struggling daily to keep my faith in tact and have been feeling like I could not pray for anyone not even myself. I am encouraged by your prayers and the prayers of everyone here. I am glad YeHoWaH has answered you and given you comfort and joy. I pray He will continually lift your spirit and give you strength to endure. May YeHoWaH be with us all and give us the answers we seek, as we seek to serve Him with our whole heart. Shalom, Sandra. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/52ab3531/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 14 23:32:26 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:32:26 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" In-Reply-To: <061520090137.17358.4A35A5BE00061C17000043CE22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <740A2123A7FE46409C4FE4B71AC87C6A@bettylaptop><061420090540.22400.4A348D5E000E2FB80000578022228869349B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <061520090137.17358.4A35A5BE00061C17000043CE22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <7FDD76F26D3F466FA7787050A0B89CAD@bettylaptop> Yes, Eliron! It absolutely positively IS good to be family! I thank HaShem for every one of you! V'Ahavah v'Shalom, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:37 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" It's good to be family Elisheva. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Eliron, Thank you for the affirmation of love. You pretty well wrapped up the whole point when you said, "It's about each one of us working toward a deeper relationship with HaShem. If we all concentrated on that, there would be no time for strife." A quantum leap? I surely hope so. Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty P.S. The author of the book I referred to was Rabbi Avraham Greenbaum, with whom many of us are familiar, not Greenberg. I did make the correction below. _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:41 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" Elisheva, You are loved. By us yes, but more significantly by HaShem. That is really the whole point I think. It's not about religion, religion only brings division. . If we all concentrated on that, there would be no time for strife. I think that this is what is meant in Isaiah 62. I think you just made a quantum leap. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Shalom Chaverim, I received a PR this morning and wanted to share it and some of the circumstances and thoughts surrounding it. I apologize ahead of time for the length, but if you will take the time to wade thru it, perhaps it will be an encouragement to you as it was to me.to continue seeking HaShem and to never give up.maybe this is what it means in the Shema when it says not only to love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, but with all your strength as well.love Him with all your strength even when you don't feel that you have any strength left. Due to a lot of personal reasons that will go unnamed, I have really been struggling daily to keep my faith intact, even as a "glowing ember".not so much my faith in HaShem because I know that He is Constant.it is me that is the problem. So this time of prayer and meditation that has been put forth in our joining together to pray for guidance regarding our children, grandchildren, etc., and all of HaShem's children in "Living the Shema" has come at a very appropriate time for me, and from reading some of your comments, a very appropriate time for many of us. Some of us have young children who are still at home that need guidance; some have teenagers who are struggling with their own identify that we are trying to reach out to; some have children who having already left our homes do not follow HaShem and His Torah; some have children and families from which they are estranged; some have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren who are struggling and hurting and beset by problems that as parents we just cannot fix. Some of us are going thru the heartbreaking process of realizing that our parents have become our children.and all this hurt doesn't even include all that is going on in the lives of HaShem's children in Eretz Israel and all over the world who are beset by constant life-threatening situations and hunger and sickness.There is just so much suffering and pain and hurt in the world.sometimes it makes one just want to find a secret hiding place and retreat from it all. As I kindled the Sabbath candles last night and thought of all of us and our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren. and all of HaShem's children all over the world welcoming HaShem's Sabbath into our homes .I prayed the prayer that I had sent out to the list yesterday.and I prayed it with fervor.really meaning it.trying to see all of us thru the eyes of HaShem.and for a brief moment, in the midst of all the turmoil, I felt a sense of Sabbath peace. Yet I remember getting ready for bed last night and fighting against the negative thoughts that were trying to infiltrate my thinking.why all the suffering and hurt and problems just in our little group, why so much hurt surrounding my family, me? Why in the world can't I just get beyond myself and all of this junk and really give it up to HaShem and not take it back? Maybe I am just too weak, or worse, maybe I am deluding myself.maybe I am just no good.there are so many people that pray more, study more, do more, what good am I anyway? How can I pray for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, friends or any children when I am feeling so worthless? Does HaShem even hear my prayers when I am like this? But then I argued with myself, saying.but HaShem knows my heart and that I have loved Him since I was a little girl and He knows that I am trying to live a good life and do the right thing.I just need to get past where I am now.I just need to try harder.I know that HaShem loves me.but. I don't remember when I fell asleep, but it was sometime during the Bedtime Shema and the V'ahavta ("You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart."). When I got up this morning, I determined that I would go to shul whether I felt like it or not, and I would be determined to make this a day of prayer for what we had set before us in "Living the Shema." I did a little reading from a book that a dear friend had given me by Rabbi Avraham Greenbaum based on the writings of Rabbi Nachman.I 'just happened' to open the page to a quote that said, "When words and cries don't help, cry deep in your heart without letting out a sound." That hit a chord, so I continued reading."sometimes when the crisis of faith is so great that even wordless cries cannot help, one has to cry from the heart alone." "Their heart cried out to HaShem." ( Lamentations 2:18) The author says that the "heart alone cries out to HaShem without letting out a sound." He quotes Psalms 130:1, "From the depths I call out to HaShem," from the depths of the heart. And from the depths of the heart come guidance, for like "deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man, Proverbs 20:5. When shouts and screams no longer help because faith has collapsed, one must cry from the depths of the heart without letting out a sound. This is how true counsel is revealed, he says, for "like deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man." Even though it was time for me to get dressed to go to shul, I was so moved by the passage that I felt compelled to get my tallit and pray. As I said the blessing and put it over my head, I dropped to the floor. As I knelt, I continued with the tallit blessing as I recited the beautiful and inspirational words taken from Psalms 36:8-11 from memory.with all my heart. "How precious is your loving kindness O HaShem. Your children rest under the Shadow of your Wings. May they be sated from the abundance of your House. May you feed them with the streams of Your delights. For You are the Source of all Life, and in your Light do we have Light. Extend your steadfast Love to those who know you And your righteousness to the upright in heart." I then began to "cry' from my heart.with no words.and when I got up from the floor where I had been kneeling, tears filled my eyes and I was overcome with emotion.and I felt a sort of release.it is hard to explain. As I was folding up my tallit and putting it on my bookshelf, I sensed that maybe there was something else I needed to do. Without even thinking, the words came out of my mouth."HaShem do you have a PR for me this morning?" Immediately Psalms 32:11 came into my mind. I quickly grabbed my Bible and turned to the passage, wondering if I had really "gotten" this from HaShem or if I had just made it up.I tried to push the latter from my mind..When I turned to the passage, I gasped first in disbelief, then in awe.as I read the words, beginning from 32:10b. "but he that trusts in HaShem, shall be surrounded by Love. Be glad in HaShem and rejoice, O you righteous; and shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart." I was totally amazed at the words before me.I read them over and over.as I thought of all the thoughts I had had the night before, everything began to connect.all the hurts were hurts of the heart; Who knows our heart.Who is "close to the brokenhearted and those crushed in spirit? What is the cure for all these hurts of the heart that sometimes cannot even find expression? The words in the Shema rang in my ears."You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart., "The words of the tallit blessing came to mind.and the words of the PR that HaShem had so graciously given me came to mind. When I cried to Him from the depths of my heart, He answered me. Again, I realize this is quite personal, and may appear to be self-centered. If some of you find it too personal, I apologize. I just felt compelled to share because I think that perhaps there may be others who are hurting that might be encouraged by some of the not new, but fresh realizations that have come to me this Shabbat during my times of prayer and reflection. HaShem loves each of us.with chesed, loving kindness. We can each find needed rest under the Shadow of His Wings. He is the Source of all Life and He gives us Light. He hears the cries of our hearts. If we continue to trust in Him and seek to know Him, we will find that we will be surrounded by love! He extends His righteousness to those who know Him, to the upright in heart! What should be our response to all of these wondrous promises? BE GLAD IN HASHEM AND REJOICE, O YOUR RIGHTEOUS; AND SHOUT FOR JOY, ALL YOU WHO ARE UPRIGHT IN HEART! We each know where our hearts are.may we each judge (palel) ourselves and not only pray the Shema daily, but continue to endeavor to find ways to live it with every chord of our being! Shavua tov to all on this the first day of Sabbath, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/ecab34a8/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Sun Jun 14 23:55:39 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:55:39 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Mt Zion: Let the Digging Begin! In-Reply-To: <00EC5783-664E-4D9A-AD61-41EBFDBC3D30@earthlink.net> References: <00EC5783-664E-4D9A-AD61-41EBFDBC3D30@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Thanks, James for the update! I am sure everyone must be excited to be there digging in the Land! May the funding come, here a little and there a little.or here a lot and there a lot.I am thinking of the parsha, Trumah.when everyone gave their uplifted donation according to the dictates of their hearts.I am glad there is no amount too small, for that encourages all to take part.even if only a little. It will be good to get updates and photos as you have time.some among us.like Hanoch and the South Carolina group has a vested interest! May HaShem bless, protect and go before you and all. Shavua tov, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of James Tabor Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:04 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] Mt Zion: Let the Digging Begin! Today, Sunday, June 14th we officially inagurated our 2009 excavations at Mt Zion. There was an air of excitement as our little band of six staff and 30 dedicated volunteers, gathered to clear the site of its winter foliage and wash. Our team this year is drawn from around the world with members from the United States, the UK, Russia, South America, and a half dozen other countries and regions. Our team threw themselves avidly into the first day's work, even in the blazing heat of the middle of June. The site looks transformed in appearance even after one day-and we have four weeks to go! We truly are expecting great things this year, including descending down in to well preserved intact rooms and chambers from the 2nd Temple destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE. We are the only academic dig in Jerusalem in the past 30 years, offering a field archaeology school with full academic and scientific methods and oversight. We are also committed to preserving, not destroying, all levels of habitation in Jerusalem, the spiritual capital of the Western world, whether Turkish, Crusader, Arab, Byzantine, Roman, Jewish, or Canannite. Our site, situated on the slopes of Mt. Zion, the highest peak of the "seven hills" of Jerusalem, has the advantage of sloping down to the south east and thus preserving a chronological record of "Jerusalem through the Ages." I have mentioned in previous posts that it costs a minimum of $90,000 to run a dig for a season, and given our recession, and a freeze in state funding through UNC Charlotte, we have less than half of what we need. I have had several people write and ask-why is archaeology so expensive? I can tell you it is not the wages paid to our students-they get none, but actually pay to dig with us-plus all their expenses. It is not the salaries of the staff-there are none. Most archaeologists sacrifice their time and energy as a labor of love and commitment to the field. It sort of gets in one's blood. The costs almost all have to do with the logistics of soil moving and disposal, especially in an urban area, vehicle rentals, supplies and materials, tools and equipment, storage and curation of artifacts, and scientific tests. Even $90,000 is a lean budget and does not include conservation and post-excavation costs as explained in this report. For example, today we had a large earth moving front loader with a fleet of trucks lined up to remove one meter of modern garden fill around the parameters of our site. Five days works comes to $10,000, and that is just the beginning, as we will have multiple truckloads of soil removed over the next four weeks, as we dig carefully by in the stratigraphic layers. I hope readers of my Blog will consider joining our Web fund drive. I think the only way to fund archaeology during the recession is to take it to be people. We have raised nearly $10,000 with 91 contributers just in the past couple of weeks, but our drive seems to have stalled a bit since June 11th when I left to travel over here to Israel. Please join us and be a part of this historic and exciting endeavor by going directly to the Dig Mount Zion and "Pitching In" at any amount. You can also follow our progress there. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/90583e1c/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 66667 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090614/90583e1c/attachment.jpe From bkgivin at verizon.net Mon Jun 15 00:00:11 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:00:11 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' In-Reply-To: References: <855590370906141832t5efaf8dfpecd7198b6036b407@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C470097A4E34C3693EB03006686C953@bettylaptop> Very interesting, Hanoch.and Avigail! Am I remembering correctly that you have the O'Neill coat of arms in your ancestry? Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:53 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' That's the red hand of Zerach in the Star of David. Zerach was the twin brother of Peretz. They were the sons of Judah and Tamar. Nial of the Nine Hostages of Ulster, who reigned from 379 to 405 CE claimed to be descended from Zerach, and that hand is also found in the O'Neill coat of arms because they are direct descendants of his. Also around the O'Neill coat of arms is a red ribbon for the red cord tied on Zerach's wrist when he stuck his hand out first, but then Peretz (whose name means "making a breach") cut in front of him and was born first. Jewish descendants DO turn up in the oddest places!!!!! Avigail _____ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:32:57 -0400 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Please read the report below (from Yair Davidy's Brit Am mailings), and look at the flags in Ulster County - Hanoch 3. Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner From: ENSEMBLE CLIFFORD-SMYTH On Saturday the 6th of June 2009, we passed through a newly built housing estate south west of Ballymena in Northern Ireland; as we approach the traditional annual commemorations of the Battle of the Boyne such Protestant, unionist and loyalists housing estates are bedecked in Union Jacks, Northern Ireland flags and other symbols of loyalty to the British Crown. A few years ago ,many of these estates adopted the Israeli flag and flew that flag too. Obviously Ulster loyalists find common cause with Israel in regard to their conflict over land & identity; this year though we encounter a new phenomenon someone has synthesised or fused or married the Northern Ireland flag with that of the state of Israel. ( I attach the pics. including a pic of me in my Titanic Tartan kilt ! But it's the flags we are interested in.) I have reports of Israeli flags flying in other parts of Ulster. Clifford Ulster Israeli Combined Banner Photos Clifford Ulster Flag Magen David Ulster Flag -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/7c6ff497/attachment.html From dstone34 at cox.net Mon Jun 15 04:26:38 2009 From: dstone34 at cox.net (Diana Stone) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 04:26:38 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Help References: <17DA7C0D901A4A2DB95AE847664C3CDF@toshibauser> <8C03D969-EF29-4BB4-BEB8-3F269100852B@me.com> Message-ID: <456017F55C364153BCA5C3C418963D02@toshibauser> Thanks Ross and Dave, I guess the link to Roots of Faith which I had saved in my favorites no longer worked when the website format changed. I can get to the site now so I can listen to this week's message. Shalom and Blessings, Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: Ross Nichols To: List Dialogue Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Help The address has changed. Go to www.rootsoffaith.org and try that. Shalom and please let me know if this does not fix the problem. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 14, 2009, at 9:49 PM, Diana Stone wrote: Hey Folks, I don't know if this a technical problem on my end or whether others are having a similar problem. I tried to access the Roots of Faith site to listen to Ross's program yesterday and I received the following message. I tried to access it again tonight and receive the same thing... Are there any teche guru types in our group that why I am receiving the message below or why I cannot access Ross's site. I am able to access other websites as well as radio/audio programs.... Forbidden You don't have permission to access /blog-and-podcasts/ on this server. Shalom, Diana _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/ea006cea/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Mon Jun 15 04:50:22 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Help Message-ID: <429202.89399.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am having problems accessing the live video portion of Ross's site.? I can only listen to the lessons with the emphasis light show instead of being able to see everybody.? Is anyone else having this same problem? ? Susan --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Diana Stone wrote: From: Diana Stone Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Help To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 4:26 AM Thanks Ross and Dave, ? I guess the link to Roots of Faith which I had saved in my favorites no longer worked when the website format changed.? I can get to the site now so I can listen to this week's message.? ? Shalom and Blessings, Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: Ross Nichols To: List Dialogue Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Help The address has changed. Go to www.rootsoffaith.org and try that. Shalom and please let me know if this does not fix the problem. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 14, 2009, at 9:49 PM, Diana Stone wrote: Hey Folks, ? I don't know if this a technical problem on my end or whether others are having a similar problem.? I tried to access the Roots of Faith site to listen to Ross's program yesterday and I received the following message.? I tried to access it again tonight and receive the same thing...? Are there any teche guru types in our group that why I am receiving the? message below or why I cannot access Ross's site.? I am able to access other websites as well as radio/audio programs....? ? Forbidden You don't have permission to access /blog-and-podcasts/ on this server. Shalom, Diana ? _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/82caac35/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Mon Jun 15 04:57:35 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] help correction Message-ID: <261419.65308.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I meant to say infamous light show.? Still early here. lol? Susan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/189892f9/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Mon Jun 15 05:27:27 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 03:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" Message-ID: <924647.45467.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Betty,? I am just getting back in town and have so enjoyed reading your piece,? It so touched my heart.? I know I have been exactly where you were with only the promise that HaShem's love for me would carry me through.? If it weren't for His blessed revelations He gives of from time to time it would be hard.? I am so thankful for this family also and the openess with which everyone is so willing to share.? When we open our hearts so freely as you have I see it as sign of how trusting we can be with one another because we know we are all family here.? How ecouraging that is for me.? My prayers and thoughts we be reaching out to all. ? Shalom,? Susan --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: RE: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 11:32 PM Yes, Eliron!? It absolutely positively IS good to be family!? I thank HaShem for every one of you! ? V?Ahavah v?Shalom, ? Elisheva/Betty ? From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:37 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" ? It's good to be family Elisheva. ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ? -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Eliron, ? Thank you for the affirmation of love.? You pretty well wrapped up the whole point when you said, ?It's about each one of us working toward a deeper relationship with HaShem. If we all concentrated on that, there would be no time for strife.? ? A quantum leap?? I surely hope so. ? Shavua tov, ? Elisheva/Betty ? ?P.S.? The author of the book I referred to was Rabbi Avraham Greenbaum, with whom many of us are familiar, not Greenberg.? I did make the correction below. ? ? From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:41 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] PR Regarding " Living the Shema" ? Elisheva, ? You are loved.? By us yes, but more significantly by HaShem. ? That is really the whole point I think.? It's not about religion, religion only brings division.?.?If we all concentrated on that, there would be no time for strife.? I think that this is what is meant in Isaiah 62. ? I think you just made a quantum leap. ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ? -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Shalom Chaverim, ? I received a PR this morning and wanted to share it and some of the circumstances and thoughts surrounding it.? I apologize ahead of time for the length, but if you will take the time to wade thru it, perhaps it will be an encouragement to you as it was to me?to continue seeking HaShem and to never give up?maybe this is what it means in the Shema when it says not only to love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, but with all your strength as well?love Him with all your strength even when you don?t feel that you have any strength left? ? Due to a lot of personal reasons that will go unnamed, I have really been struggling daily to keep my faith intact, even as a ?glowing ember??not so much my faith in HaShem because I know that He is Constant?it is me that is the problem. ?So this time of prayer and meditation that has been put forth in our joining together to pray for guidance regarding our children, grandchildren, etc., and all of HaShem?s children in ?Living the Shema? has come at a very appropriate time for me, and from reading some of your comments, a very appropriate time for many of us.? ? Some of us have young children who are still at home that need guidance; some have teenagers who are struggling with their own identify that we are trying to reach out to; some have children who having already left our homes do not follow HaShem and His Torah; some have children and families from which they are estranged; some have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren who are struggling and hurting and beset by problems that as parents we just cannot fix.? Some of us are going thru the heartbreaking process of realizing that our parents have become our children?and all this hurt doesn?t even include all that is going on in the lives of HaShem?s children in Eretz Israel and all over the world who are beset by constant life-threatening situations and hunger and sickness?There is just so much suffering and pain and hurt in the world?sometimes it makes one just want to find a secret hiding place and retreat from it all? ? As I kindled the Sabbath candles last night and thought of all of us and our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren? and all of HaShem?s children all over the world welcoming HaShem?s Sabbath into our homes ?I prayed the prayer that I had sent out to the list yesterday?and I prayed it with fervor?really meaning it?trying to see all of us thru the eyes of HaShem?and for a brief moment, in the midst of all the turmoil, I felt a sense of Sabbath peace? ? Yet I remember getting ready for bed last night and fighting against the negative thoughts that were trying to infiltrate my thinking?why all the suffering and hurt and problems just in our little group, why so much hurt surrounding my family, me?? Why in the world can?t I just get beyond myself and all of this junk and really give it up to HaShem and not take it back?? Maybe I am just too weak, or worse, maybe I am deluding myself?maybe I am just no good?there are so many people that pray more, study more, do more, what good am I anyway?? ?How can I pray for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, friends or any children when I am feeling so worthless? Does HaShem even hear my prayers when I am like this? ?But then I argued with myself, saying?but HaShem knows my heart and that I have loved Him since I was a little girl and He knows that I am trying to live a good life and do the right thing?I just need to get past where I am now?I just need to try harder?I know that HaShem loves me?but? ? I don?t remember when I fell asleep, but it was sometime during the Bedtime Shema and the V?ahavta (?You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart??). ? When I got up this morning, I determined that I would go to shul whether I felt like it or not, and I would be determined to make this a day of prayer for what we had set before us in ?Living the Shema.?? I did a little reading from a book that a dear friend had given me by Rabbi Avraham Greenbaum based on the writings of Rabbi Nachman?I ?just happened? to open the page to a quote that said, ?When words and cries don?t help, cry deep in your heart without letting out a sound.?? ? ? That hit a chord, so I continued reading??sometimes when the crisis of faith is so great that even wordless cries cannot help, one has to cry from the heart alone.? ??Their heart cried out to HaShem.?? ( Lamentations 2:18) ? The author says that the ?heart alone cries out to HaShem without letting out a sound.?? He quotes Psalms 130:1, ?From the depths I call out to HaShem,? from the depths of the heart.? And from the depths of the heart come guidance, for like ?deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man, Proverbs 20:5.? When shouts and screams no longer help because faith has collapsed, one must cry from the depths of the heart without letting out a sound.? This is how true counsel is revealed, he says, for ?like deep waters, so is counsel in the heart of man.?? ? Even though it was time for me to get dressed to go to shul, I was so moved by the passage that I felt compelled to get my tallit and pray. As I said the blessing and put it over my head, I dropped to the floor.? As I knelt, I continued with the tallit blessing as I recited the beautiful and inspirational words taken from Psalms 36:8-11 from memory?with all my heart? ?How precious is your loving kindness O HaShem.?? Your children rest under the Shadow of your Wings? May they be sated from the abundance of your House? May you feed them with the streams of Your delights? For You are the Source of all Life, and in your Light do we have Light? Extend your steadfast Love to those who know you ?And your righteousness to the upright in heart.? ? I then began to ?cry? from my heart?with no words?and when I got up from the floor where I had been kneeling, tears filled my eyes and I was overcome with emotion?and I felt a sort of release?it is hard to explain.? As I was folding up my tallit and putting it on my bookshelf, I sensed that maybe there was something else I needed to do.? Without even thinking, the words came out of my mouth??HaShem do you have a PR for me this morning?? ? Immediately Psalms 32:11 came into my mind.? I quickly grabbed my Bible and turned to the passage, wondering if I had really ?gotten? this from HaShem or if I had just made it up?I tried to push the latter from my mind?.When I turned to the passage, I gasped first in disbelief, then in awe?as I read the words, beginning from 32:10b?? ?but he that trusts in HaShem, shall be surrounded by Love.? Be glad in HaShem and rejoice, O you righteous; and shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart.? ? I was totally amazed at the words before me?I read them over and over?as I thought of all the thoughts I had had the night before, everything began to connect?all the hurts were hurts of the heart;? Who knows our heart?Who is ?close to the brokenhearted and those crushed in spirit? ?What is the cure for all these hurts of the heart that sometimes cannot even find expression? ?The words in the Shema rang in my ears??You shall love HaShem your G-D with all your heart?, ?The words of the tallit blessing came to mind?and the words of the PR that HaShem had so graciously given me came to mind.? When I cried to Him from the depths of my heart, He answered me. ? Again, I realize this is quite personal, and may appear to be self-centered.? If some of you find it too personal, I apologize. I just felt compelled to share because I think that perhaps there may be others who are hurting that might be encouraged by some of the not new, but fresh realizations that have come to me this Shabbat during my times of prayer and reflection. ? HaShem loves each of us?with chesed, loving kindness. We can each find needed rest under the Shadow of His Wings. He is the Source of all Life and He gives us Light. He hears the cries of our hearts? If we continue to trust in Him and seek to know Him, we will find that we will be surrounded by love! He extends His righteousness to those who know Him, to the upright in heart! What should be our response to all of these wondrous promises? BE GLAD IN HASHEM AND REJOICE, O YOUR RIGHTEOUS; AND SHOUT FOR JOY, ALL YOU WHO ARE UPRIGHT IN HEART! ? We each know where our hearts are?may we each judge (palel) ourselves and not only pray the Shema daily, but continue to endeavor to find ways to live it with every chord of our being! ? Shavua tov to all on this the first day of Sabbath, ? Elisheva/Betty ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/dcf70439/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Mon Jun 15 09:39:45 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:39:45 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' In-Reply-To: <8C470097A4E34C3693EB03006686C953@bettylaptop> References: <855590370906141832t5efaf8dfpecd7198b6036b407@mail.gmail.com> <8C470097A4E34C3693EB03006686C953@bettylaptop> Message-ID: Hi Betty, That's right, Cody and I are O'Neills. Yair Davidy is also a descedant of Nial of the Nine Hostages, and has done a great deal of research on the subject. I had already converted to Judaism before I found out about the family connection to Judah, but I had been hearing HaShem tell me to "join myself to the Jews" for a long time before I converted. My first reaction to Judaism (which was my first trip to Israel in the early '80's) was a great desire to see all Judah "saved." I would pray and pray for the Jews. I would cry out to HaShem and say that if I was in the Jews' place, and I discovered I was wrong in my beliefs, I would immediately switch! In fact, I prayed that prayer over and over again as I diligently prayed for the Jews, and meant it from the very bottom of my heart. I even started writing a book to explain to Judah why they needed to become Christians. I determined to use only "Old" Testament references. The only problem was, the more I studied, the less I had to say! My studies were not lining up with my beliefs as I had always assumed they would. Among so many other things, I was discovering the many, many similarities of my religion with the pagen religions. (The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop was a real eye opener!) Finally, one morning as I awakened, I heard HaShem speak to me, "Numbers 23:19" as a PR. I very carefully looked up the Hebrew words of that verse and was amazed to find that in Hebrew, it actually says: "G-d in NOT a man...........NOR THE SON OF A HUMAN BEING." ..........G-D WASN'T MARY'S SON!!! I was flabergasted!!!! After all the other things I had learned that were slowly taking away all my self-assuredness about my religious belief system (actually, my GREAT ARROGANCE concerning my belief system!), here was THIS bomb! HOW could it be that I was the one with the wrong belief system????? All the things I had been learing as I tried to write my book for the Jews, using only the Tanach, suddenly came into vivid focus! I finally understood what HaShem had been telling me for years! I did what I had been promising him I would do (never dreaming I could have been the one in the wrong!), I repented for having worshipped a man as G-d for so many years (not to mention trying to convince Jews to do the same!), and joined myself to the Jews. It was VERY difficult giving up Jesus, who had been the love and the focus of my life, but I slowly began to realize that ALL the Divine attributes I had believed belonged to Jesus were actually HaShem's ALONE! Slowly I was able to transfer my love and allegiance to HaShem alone. It wasn't an easy fix by any means! I grieved for a few years over the loss of Jesus, but I was slowly realizing that it was HaShem Who had always been there for me, loving me, forgiving me through His great Mercy and Grace, and gently leading me to follow Him and Him alone. I met Yair Davidiy after having converted to Judaism, and he began teaching me about my ancestry. We first spoke on the phone in the mid '90's. I began to read all that he had written on the subject of some Irish who had Jewish ancestry. Yair continued to learn more about this subject over the years, including the fact that he himself was actually a descendant of Nial of the Nine Hostages too! The more I learned, the more I realized that HaShem had slowly and patiently led me back to my roots. I think He is doing the same for the descendants of Judah and Ephraim all over the world. Today, I am still thanking HaShem for saving me. Avigail/Pat From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:00:11 -0500 Very interesting, Hanoch?and Avigail! Am I remembering correctly that you have the O?Neill coat of arms in your ancestry? Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:53 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' That's the red hand of Zerach in the Star of David. Zerach was the twin brother of Peretz. They were the sons of Judah and Tamar. Nial of the Nine Hostages of Ulster, who reigned from 379 to 405 CE claimed to be descended from Zerach, and that hand is also found in the O'Neill coat of arms because they are direct descendants of his. Also around the O'Neill coat of arms is a red ribbon for the red cord tied on Zerach's wrist when he stuck his hand out first, but then Peretz (whose name means "making a breach") cut in front of him and was born first. Jewish descendants DO turn up in the oddest places!!!!! Avigail Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:32:57 -0400 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Please read the report below (from Yair Davidy's Brit Am mailings), and look at the flags in Ulster County - Hanoch 3. Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner From: ENSEMBLE CLIFFORD-SMYTH On Saturday the 6th of June 2009, we passed through a newly built housing estate south west of Ballymena in Northern Ireland; as we approach the traditional annual commemorations of the Battle of the Boyne such Protestant, unionist and loyalists housing estates are bedecked in Union Jacks, Northern Ireland flags and other symbols of loyalty to the British Crown. A few years ago ,many of these estates adopted the Israeli flag and flew that flag too. Obviously Ulster loyalists find common cause with Israel in regard to their conflict over land & identity; this year though we encounter a new phenomenon someone has synthesised or fused or married the Northern Ireland flag with that of the state of Israel. ( I attach the pics. including a pic of me in my Titanic Tartan kilt ! But it's the flags we are interested in.) I have reports of Israeli flags flying in other parts of Ulster. Clifford Ulster Israeli Combined Banner Photos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/9e96fd68/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 11:31:55 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:31:55 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Would the PA recognize Israel as a 'Jewish State?' Message-ID: <855590370906150931u53a329fx42bceff389ae287c@mail.gmail.com> Shalom L'Kulam, Last evening John posed a really good question: Would the PA (Philistine Authority) recognize Israel as a 'Jewish State.' I was afraid that they would call Bibi's bluff (on all conditions), but evidently, they aren't; at least not for today.....see below, from today's Arutz-7 (Israel National News): *Hanoch* *PA: Bibi Sabotaging Talks *A spokesman for Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas accused Netanyahu of *harming Israel-PA talks by insisting that Jerusalem remain the undivided capital of Israel and that millions of foreign Arabs claiming the right to live in Israel be settled elsewhere. * "Netanyahu's remarks have sabotaged all initiatives, paralysed all efforts being made and challenges the Palestinian, Arab and American positions," said spokesman Nabil Abu Rdainah The Palestinian Authority secretary, Yassir Abed Rabo, called Netanyahu's speech ?worthless,? and insulted the Prime Minister personally, calling him ?a fraud, a cheat and a liar.? Senior PA negotiator Saeb Erikat said that ?*Netanyahu will have to wait a thousand years befire he finds a Palestinian who agrees to his suggestions. He has unilaterally eliminated all of the final status subjects like Jerusalem, refugees and security.?* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/eca28bf4/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Mon Jun 15 12:50:36 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:50:36 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. In-Reply-To: <061520090129.3472.4A35A3F10001231B00000D9022230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN> <061520090129.3472.4A35A3F10001231B00000D9022230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: Hey Eliron, I know this was addressed to Sandra and I definitely want to get her input because she started us off with some great ideas! (Thanks again, Sandra). I think the CD this would be a terrific idea! I thought of another one as well. As I was talking to Kim, last evening and telling her about some of the good suggestions from Sandra and also Margie (and Pat a few weeks ago) regarding the children's books, stories and songs, having a Children's Page on the SWW. I was even thinking of perhaps having our children become Pen Pals with one another. I am not sure how it would work, but perhaps we could have a special SWW Children's Page as Sandra suggested and maybe post pictures of our children and their ages for a start, and see if we could figure out a way to actually include them in our networking. In all the influx of posts, I am not sure if you saw the Aklah link that I posted in one of my emails. I think it is a great link for kids, and adults too to learn more about the weekly parsha's, festivals, even Israel and the Hebrew language. It is colorful and eye appealing and very 'cutesy,' for those who are drawn to that sort of thing. I personally love it.guess I still have my little girl's heart! That is probably what drew me into teaching! Anyway, check it out and see what you think. The thing that is missing is the music, but there are lots of other resources. http://www.akhlah.com/ Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:29 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Sandra, Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by the folks on this list? What do ya think? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Children's songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH's love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children's books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children's page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/28c2d5f6/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 15 13:48:20 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:48:20 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Would the PA recognize Israel as a 'Jewish State?' In-Reply-To: <855590370906150931u53a329fx42bceff389ae287c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <061520091848.4035.4A3697740008166C00000FC322218801869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> This only serves to underscore and emphasize how ridiculously idealistic and naive the supporters of the two-state solution are. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Shalom L'Kulam, Last evening John posed a really good question: Would the PA (Philistine Authority) recognize Israel as a 'Jewish State.' I was afraid that they would call Bibi's bluff (on all conditions), but evidently, they aren't; at least not for today.....see below, from today's Arutz-7 (Israel National News): Hanoch PA: Bibi Sabotaging Talks A spokesman for Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas accused Netanyahu of harming Israel-PA talks by insisting that Jerusalem remain the undivided capital of Israel and that millions of foreign Arabs claiming the right to live in Israel be settled elsewhere. "Netanyahu's remarks have sabotaged all initiatives, paralysed all efforts being made and challenges the Palestinian, Arab and American positions," said spokesman Nabil Abu Rdainah The Palestinian Authority secretary, Yassir Abed Rabo, called Netanyahu's speech ?worthless,? and insulted the Prime Minister personally, calling him ?a fraud, a cheat and a liar.? Senior PA negotiator Saeb Erikat said that ?Netanyahu will have to wait a thousand years befire he finds a Palestinian who agrees to his suggestions. He has unilaterally eliminated all of the final status subjects like Jerusalem, refugees and security.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/e50d2f48/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Mon Jun 15 13:55:59 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:55:59 -0500 Subject: FW: [Dialogue] Pat, your Testimony, 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Message-ID: <082BBD4C32C246BFAE22810E3F1DE961@bettylaptop> I think this post got 'bogged down,' so am resending it without the original version with the pictures of the Israeli flag and the Ulster Banner. Elisheva/Betty _____ From: Betty K Givin [mailto:bkgivin at verizon.net] Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:16 PM To: 'dialogue at rootsoffaith.org' Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Pat, your Testimony,'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Avigail, I thought I knew you, but I don't remember ever hearing this entire story. It is quite a powerful and beautiful testimony, and one that I hope will bless others who are struggling in their faith. HaShem heard all those prayers that you had said for so many years, as you prayed for the Jews.and He knew your heart.that it was pure and good.and that you were praying with kavanah (good intent); He heard your prayers and answered them by sending you to Torah to learn about Him and to put your mind at rest regarding His people, and then led you to find out that your ancestors actually were Jewish! I love that! I didn't pray for the Jews specifically for many years, because quite honestly, I really never had any connection with any Jewish people. But I did pray for everyone in the whole world to learn about Jesus so they could be saved! I even planned to marry a missionary and go preaching all over the world. So I went to Abilene Christian College. Well, I didn't find a missionary, but I did find a preacher, and that was the next best thing and he was from the church of christ, so I felt like I was on the right track. I now refer to this period in my life as my "other life." James went to Abilene Christian college too and was planning on become a missionary. He actually did go with a group and take some Bibles to Russia. But then he stopped going to church and started keeping the Sabbath, which in my mind, was the "old law" that we as Christians were no longer under. I prayed for him for years.for G-d to bring him back to his senses, because I did fear that he might just 'go to hell' since he had "known the truth and fallen away." About twenty years ago, Roger and I visited Joe Good's congregation.and what an eye opener that was! To make a long story short.that opened a flood gate.because some things were brought to my attention that as hard as I tried, I could just not skim over. could no longer hold on to so many of my pre-conceived ideas about the 'old law,' and I began to question everything that I had been taught in the church of christ. I too read Hezlop's book, The Two Babylons, and it had a great impact on me as well. What I did not know was that I had begun on a path that James had started many years ago with his Sabbath observance; and it was not until we spoke on the phone one evening that we realized that we were actually on a similar path. It is amazing to me that we separately found HaShem and Torah, yet why should I be amazed.we see this over and over again. "Two from a family, one from a town." right? I was ecstatic on one hand to have found Torah, but I was still in the grieving process of giving up Jesus. It was a very difficult time for me because I just didn't know how go about doing this as I had loved Jesus for as long as I can remember; yet I was reading Torah with new eyes and the more I read the more I knew that my preconceived ideas and the very foundation that I had built my life on was crumbling beneath me. I remember being utterly broken and grief stricken about what to do with Jesus and in talking to James on the phone; I pleaded with him for answers. I had read his original little paper, RAF, but was still so conflicted because I just couldn't find any peace. I will always remember the only advice he gave me.and that was to go find a quiet place, a closet, kneel on the floor and pray to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Well, that is what I did, more than once. I did not receive an instantaneous answer but gradually I came to the same conclusion as you did, Pat, when I began to realize that all of my adoration and thanksgiving needed to be directed to HaShem because it was HaShem, not Jesus who had been with me since a child. And that to honor the memory of Jesus (Blessed be his Memory), I needed to understand him as he would have wanted me to, as a human being created by the Eternal who owed all his allegiance to HaShem, the One G-D of Israel! It was because of Jesus that I, like many others, came to Torah in the first place and for that I will be eternally grateful. I really did not intend to get into 'my story' here, Pat. I was just so taken by yours that I began to reflect on some of the similarities between us...and the words just poured out.I could write on and on and include how I came to convert to Judaism, but that would take way too long, and I really must get back to the tedious work involved in my job search! Thank you so much for sharing your story, Pat! Love and shavua tov on this the 2nd day of Sabbath, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:40 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Hi Betty, That's right, Cody and I are O'Neills. Yair Davidy is also a descedant of Nial of the Nine Hostages, and has done a great deal of research on the subject. I had already converted to Judaism before I found out about the family connection to Judah, but I had been hearing HaShem tell me to "join myself to the Jews" for a long time before I converted. My first reaction to Judaism (which was my first trip to Israel in the early '80's) was a great desire to see all Judah "saved." I would pray and pray for the Jews. I would cry out to HaShem and say that if I was in the Jews' place, and I discovered I was wrong in my beliefs, I would immediately switch! In fact, I prayed that prayer over and over again as I diligently prayed for the Jews, and meant it from the very bottom of my heart. I even started writing a book to explain to Judah why they needed to become Christians. I determined to use only "Old" Testament references. The only problem was, the more I studied, the less I had to say! My studies were not lining up with my beliefs as I had always assumed they would. Among so many other things, I was discovering the many, many similarities of my religion with the pagen religions. (The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop was a real eye opener!) Finally, one morning as I awakened, I heard HaShem speak to me, "Numbers 23:19" as a PR. I very carefully looked up the Hebrew words of that verse and was amazed to find that in Hebrew, it actually says: "G-d in NOT a man...........NOR THE SON OF A HUMAN BEING." ..........G-D WASN'T MARY'S SON!!! I was flabergasted!!!! After all the other things I had learned that were slowly taking away all my self-assuredness about my religious belief system (actually, my GREAT ARROGANCE concerning my belief system!), here was THIS bomb! HOW could it be that I was the one with the wrong belief system????? All the things I had been learing as I tried to write my book for the Jews, using only the Tanach, suddenly came into vivid focus! I finally understood what HaShem had been telling me for years! I did what I had been promising him I would do (never dreaming I could have been the one in the wrong!), I repented for having worshipped a man as G-d for so many years (not to mention trying to convince Jews to do the same!), and joined myself to the Jews. It was VERY difficult giving up Jesus, who had been the love and the focus of my life, but I slowly began to realize that ALL the Divine attributes I had believed belonged to Jesus were actually HaShem's ALONE! Slowly I was able to transfer my love and allegiance to HaShem alone. It wasn't an easy fix by any means! I grieved for a few years over the loss of Jesus, but I was slowly realizing that it was HaShem Who had always been there for me, loving me, forgiving me through His great Mercy and Grace, and gently leading me to follow Him and Him alone. I met Yair Davidiy after having converted to Judaism, and he began teaching me about my ancestry. We first spoke on the phone in the mid '90's. I began to read all that he had written on the subject of some Irish who had Jewish ancestry. Yair continued to learn more about this subject over the years, including the fact that he himself was actually a descendant of Nial of the Nine Hostages too! The more I learned, the more I realized that HaShem had slowly and patiently led me back to my roots. I think He is doing the same for the descendants of Judah and Ephraim all over the world. Today, I am still thanking HaShem for saving me. Avigail/Pat _____ From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:00:11 -0500 Very interesting, Hanoch.and Avigail! Am I remembering correctly that you have the O'Neill coat of arms in your ancestry? Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:53 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' That's the red hand of Zerach in the Star of David. Zerach was the twin brother of Peretz. They were the sons of Judah and Tamar. Nial of the Nine Hostages of Ulster, who reigned from 379 to 405 CE claimed to be descended from Zerach, and that hand is also found in the O'Neill coat of arms because they are direct descendants of his. Also around the O'Neill coat of arms is a red ribbon for the red cord tied on Zerach's wrist when he stuck his hand out first, but then Peretz (whose name means "making a breach") cut in front of him and was born first. Jewish descendants DO turn up in the oddest places!!!!! Avigail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/bfe4557d/attachment.html From dsdj7 at aol.com Mon Jun 15 20:22:06 2009 From: dsdj7 at aol.com (dsdj7 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:22:06 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] (no subject) Message-ID: <8CBBC37FED33FBD-6B0-218E@webmail-mh45.sysops.aol.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/bc3cbd5e/attachment.html From im50332 at bigpond.net.au Mon Jun 15 22:11:22 2009 From: im50332 at bigpond.net.au (Pamela Barbera) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:11:22 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. References: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN><061520090129.3472.4A35A3F10001231B00000D9022230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: thanks for the great resource Betty, I missed it the first time you gave it. Kol Tov, Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: Betty K Givin To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:50 AM Subject: RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Eliron, I know this was addressed to Sandra and I definitely want to get her input because she started us off with some great ideas! (Thanks again, Sandra). I think the CD this would be a terrific idea! I thought of another one as well. As I was talking to Kim, last evening and telling her about some of the good suggestions from Sandra and also Margie (and Pat a few weeks ago) regarding the children's books, stories and songs, having a Children's Page on the SWW. I was even thinking of perhaps having our children become Pen Pals with one another. I am not sure how it would work, but perhaps we could have a special SWW Children's Page as Sandra suggested and maybe post pictures of our children and their ages for a start, and see if we could figure out a way to actually include them in our networking. In all the influx of posts, I am not sure if you saw the Aklah link that I posted in one of my emails. I think it is a great link for kids, and adults too to learn more about the weekly parsha's, festivals, even Israel and the Hebrew language. It is colorful and eye appealing and very 'cutesy,' for those who are drawn to that sort of thing. I personally love it.guess I still have my little girl's heart! That is probably what drew me into teaching! Anyway, check it out and see what you think. The thing that is missing is the music, but there are lots of other resources. http://www.akhlah.com/ Elisheva/Betty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:29 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Sandra, Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by the folks on this list? What do ya think? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Children's songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH's love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children's books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children's page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/f3c94662/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 16 01:14:47 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:14:47 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. In-Reply-To: References: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN><061520090129.3472.4A35A3F10001231B00000D9022230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <061620090614.26066.4A3738560009CA74000065D222243323629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Hey Elisheva, I checked out the site, I like it. It would be great if we could put together something like that with folks on these lists as the contributers. I also like the idea of setting up a way for them to dialogue with us. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Hey Eliron, I know this was addressed to Sandra and I definitely want to get her input because she started us off with some great ideas! (Thanks again, Sandra). I think the CD this would be a terrific idea! I thought of another one as well. As I was talking to Kim, last evening and telling her about some of the good suggestions from Sandra and also Margie (and Pat a few weeks ago) regarding the children?s books, stories and songs, having a Children?s Page on the SWW. I was even thinking of perhaps having our children become Pen Pals with one another. I am not sure how it would work, but perhaps we could have a special SWW Children?s Page as Sandra suggested and maybe post pictures of our children and their ages for a start, and see if we could figure out a way to actually include them in our networking. In all the influx of posts, I am not sure if you saw the Aklah link that I posted in one of my emails. I think it is a great link for kids, and adults too to learn more about the weekly parsha?s, festivals, even Israel and the Hebrew language. It is colorful and eye appealing and very ?cutesy,? for those who are drawn to that sort of thing. I personally love it?guess I still have my little girl?s heart! That is probably what drew me into teaching! Anyway, check it out and see what you think. The thing that is missing is the music, but there are lots of other resources. http://www.akhlah.com/ Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:29 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Sandra, Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by the folks on this list? What do ya think? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Children?s songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH?s love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children?s books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children?s page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/0f3144a9/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 16 01:31:26 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:31:26 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Netanyahu's speech today In-Reply-To: References: <855590370906141220n7a9cd5adr4681fe47ef3da064@mail.gmail.com><061520090039.11898.4A35983C000B640200002E7A22230650629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net><855590370906141812j237ef5dej21e964cbe550c94c@mail.gmail.com><061520090132.9374.4A35A4AB000DE1F40000249E22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <061620090631.5870.4A373C3D000AE064000016EE22243323629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Yesterday's news leaves me wondering if everyone (including me) really understood Bibi's message. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- John, Your question??Does anyone think that the PA is going to recognize Israel as a state? ? This was my question exactly when I read this post. And our buddy, Hanoch, gave a great answer?as usual. This is the $64,000 question ( for those of you who are old enough to remember that TV show years ago?! Interesting times indeed! Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:32 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Netanyahu's speech today You're right Hanoch, I meant to say Jewish state. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Hey folks - Well, in the original Oslo Accords (1993), the PLO was supposed to amend their charter calling for the destruction of the State of Israel; they never did, and of course, idiots that we are, we never called them on it. We just kept ignoring (with the urging of the White House, of course) what they were and weren't saying vs what they were doing. And remember, it's not just recognizing Israel as a state, but as a JEWISH state! Now, frankly, I don't think they will, just as Arafat (may he rot forever) didn't take everything Barak had offered him, and launched the Oslo War. However, I learned an important lesson many years ago in the Bronx - never threaten (or, in this case - offer) to do something you aren't willing to actually do. Bibi threw down the gauntlet, but what happens if the Arabs call his bluff?? We are definitely living in "interesting times." Hanoch On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:39 PM, wrote: Does anyone think that the PA is going to recognize Israel as a state? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- June 14, 2009 Netanyahu OK with a demilitarized Palestinian state JERUSALEM (JTA) -- Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel would agree to a demilitarized Palestinian state. in a major foreign policy address Sunday at Bar-Ilan University, Netanyahu also said the Palestinians to have a state must recognize Israel as a Jewish state."It is impossible to agree on the principle of a Palestinian state without these" conditions, he said, according to an English translation provided with a video feed on the Bar-Ilan University Web site. If Israel receives assurances that the two conditions are met, Netanyahu said, "we will be ready in the future" for a "demilitarized Palestinian state that exists alongside a Jewish state." Such a demilitarized state, he said, could not import weapons, make pacts with enemies of Israel and would not be able to close its airspace to Israel. Netanyahu also called for immediate peace talks with Palestinian leaders, without preconditions. "We want both Israeli and Palestinian children to live without war," he said, citing the root of conflict to the refusal of regional entities to accept Israel as Jewish state. "We must ask ourselves, why has peace not yet arrived after 60 years?" Netanyahu, whose Bar-Ilan address was called a response to President Obama's Cairo speech earlier this month in which the U.S. leader tried to reach out to the world's Muslims, said he was prepared to meet with the leaders of neighboring Arab countries at any time to promote regional peace. "We want peace in Damascus, in Riyadh, in Beirut, and also in Jerusalem," he said. In another portion of the speech that was closely watched at the White House, Netanyahu said that Israel had no intention of creating new West Bank settlements or expanding existing towns, but said there is a "need to allow residents to live normal lives." The Israeli leader did not expound. The United States has demanded all settlement activity be stopped, including "natural growth." Netanyahu added that settlers are not "enemies of peace" but "are our brothers." He reiterated his deep concern over Iran. "The Iranian threat looms large in front of us, as we learned yesterday," Netanyahu said, referring to the apparent re-election of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, which has brought protests in the Islamic Republic over the fairness of the election. "The greatest danger" to the region, he said, is the intersection between "radical Islam and nuclear weapons." The prime minister also said that Jerusalem must remain united and that the Palestinian refugee problem "must be resolved outside Israel's borders." In an apparent response to Obama's statement in Cairo that the creation of Israel was "rooted in the tragic history" of the Holocaust, Netanyahu emphasized that the "connection between the land of Israel and the Jewish people has lasted more than 3,500 years." "This is not an alien land, this is the land of our forefathers," he said. "This is the homeland of the Jewish people, this is where our identity was forged." For updates on this story, visit JTA.org. _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/e632ba21/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Tue Jun 16 02:00:37 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:00:37 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. In-Reply-To: References: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN><061520090129.3472.4A35A3F10001231B00000D9022230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <4CC825A183DF4273B73F14E9B5330332@bettylaptop> You are welcome, Pamela; it is not surprising you missed it the first time with all the flurry of emails going back and forth! Kol tov to you as well, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Pamela Barbera Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:11 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. thanks for the great resource Betty, I missed it the first time you gave it. Kol Tov, Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: Betty K Givin To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:50 AM Subject: RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Eliron, I know this was addressed to Sandra and I definitely want to get her input because she started us off with some great ideas! (Thanks again, Sandra). I think the CD this would be a terrific idea! I thought of another one as well. As I was talking to Kim, last evening and telling her about some of the good suggestions from Sandra and also Margie (and Pat a few weeks ago) regarding the children's books, stories and songs, having a Children's Page on the SWW. I was even thinking of perhaps having our children become Pen Pals with one another. I am not sure how it would work, but perhaps we could have a special SWW Children's Page as Sandra suggested and maybe post pictures of our children and their ages for a start, and see if we could figure out a way to actually include them in our networking. In all the influx of posts, I am not sure if you saw the Aklah link that I posted in one of my emails. I think it is a great link for kids, and adults too to learn more about the weekly parsha's, festivals, even Israel and the Hebrew language. It is colorful and eye appealing and very 'cutesy,' for those who are drawn to that sort of thing. I personally love it.guess I still have my little girl's heart! That is probably what drew me into teaching! Anyway, check it out and see what you think. The thing that is missing is the music, but there are lots of other resources. http://www.akhlah.com/ Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:29 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Sandra, Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by the folks on this list? What do ya think? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Children's songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH's love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children's books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children's page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. _____ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/07e726c2/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Tue Jun 16 02:11:09 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:11:09 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. In-Reply-To: <061620090614.26066.4A3738560009CA74000065D222243323629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN><061520090129.3472.4A35A3F10001231B00000D9022230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <061620090614.26066.4A3738560009CA74000065D222243323629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <85CA7EE888824FDF8EC89BB9F2ADBF83@bettylaptop> Glad you liked the site, Eliron.I would be happy to help as I can.but just don't depend on me for internet literacy! Oops, it is past 2:00am here and I have just gotta get some sleep! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:15 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Elisheva, I checked out the site, I like it. It would be great if we could put together something like that with folks on these lists as the contributers. I also like the idea of setting up a way for them to dialogue with us. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Hey Eliron, I know this was addressed to Sandra and I definitely want to get her input because she started us off with some great ideas! (Thanks again, Sandra). I think the CD this would be a terrific idea! I thought of another one as well. As I was talking to Kim, last evening and telling her about some of the good suggestions from Sandra and also Margie (and Pat a few weeks ago) regarding the children's books, stories and songs, having a Children's Page on the SWW. I was even thinking of perhaps having our children become Pen Pals with one another. I am not sure how it would work, but perhaps we could have a special SWW Children's Page as Sandra suggested and maybe post pictures of our children and their ages for a start, and see if we could figure out a way to actually include them in our networking. In all the influx of posts, I am not sure if you saw the Aklah link that I posted in one of my emails. I think it is a great link for kids, and adults too to learn more about the weekly parsha's, festivals, even Israel and the Hebrew language. It is colorful and eye appealing and very 'cutesy,' for those who are drawn to that sort of thing. I personally love it.guess I still have my little girl's heart! That is probably what drew me into teaching! Anyway, check it out and see what you think. The thing that is missing is the music, but there are lots of other resources. http://www.akhlah.com/ Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:29 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Sandra, Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by the folks on this list? What do ya think? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Children's songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH's love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children's books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children's page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/a654db4d/attachment.html From sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au Tue Jun 16 03:40:14 2009 From: sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au (Sandra Inglis) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:40:14 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Re Ways to reach young children. Message-ID: Shalom Eliron, Elsheva and Margie I think all of your ideas are excellant. I don't know if I could be much help putting a cd together, but I like the idea. I could give you the lyrics to the songs I sing to my grandchildren when I eventually write them down, but as far as putting music to them someone else would have to do that, as everytime I sing them I come up with a different tune and different lyrics for that matter. I don't remember tunes very well and have been told I am tone deaf, but my grandchildren don't seem to mind, they like me singing to them anyway, even if the tune is never the same twice. Margie I really like the idea of singing Psalms to children. I have a problem remembering songs and tunes, that is why I make up my own and why they change every time I sing them. If I tried I could probaby come up with some stories from the tanakh that would be suitable for young children. I could send them to you and you all could proof read them and give suggestions how to improve them if necessary. If someone else could illustrate them (I'm not much good at drawing) we could post them on the children's page on SWW. If the illustrations were outline pictures, then the children could print the story and colour the picture. Others could also submit stories to be posted on the childrens page if they like. Just an idea! What do you all think? Shalom, Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/e9e0bdb7/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Tue Jun 16 05:13:02 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:13:02 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Netanyahu's speech today] Message-ID: <4A37702E.4030009@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/ce9e2b7b/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Netanyahu's speech today Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:31:26 +0000 Size: 29638 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/ce9e2b7b/attachment.eml From chcashmore at hotmail.com Tue Jun 16 05:13:14 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:13:14 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] In my prayers Message-ID: I wanted you all to know that you are ALL in my prayers each day. I'm having a very busy time at work and haven't been able to post much. However I read everyone's posts each day, and not a day passes where I don't call upon HaShem to look after you all and shade you under his wings, for the peace of Jerusalem, and ever lasting protection for all our children. Love you all. Catherine x -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/e273e1ff/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Mon Jun 15 12:15:45 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:15:45 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Pat, your Testimony, 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' In-Reply-To: References: <855590370906141832t5efaf8dfpecd7198b6036b407@mail.gmail.com> <8C470097A4E34C3693EB03006686C953@bettylaptop> Message-ID: Avigail, I thought I knew you, but I don't remember ever hearing this entire story. It is quite a powerful and beautiful testimony, and one that I hope will bless others who are struggling in their faith. HaShem heard all those prayers that you had said for so many years, as you prayed for the Jews.and He knew your heart.that it was pure and good.and that you were praying with kavanah (good intent); He heard your prayers and answered them by sending you to Torah to learn about Him and to put your mind at rest regarding His people, and then led you to find out that your ancestors actually were Jewish! I love that! I didn't pray for the Jews specifically for many years, because quite honestly, I really never had any connection with any Jewish people. But I did pray for everyone in the whole world to learn about Jesus so they could be saved! I even planned to marry a missionary and go preaching all over the world. So I went to Abilene Christian College. Well, I didn't find a missionary, but I did find a preacher, and that was the next best thing and he was from the church of christ, so I felt like I was on the right track. I now refer to this period in my life as my "other life." James went to Abilene Christian college too and was planning on become a missionary. He actually did go with a group and take some Bibles to Russia. But then he stopped going to church and started keeping the Sabbath, which in my mind, was the "old law" that we as Christians were no longer under. I prayed for him for years.for G-d to bring him back to his senses, because I did fear that he might just 'go to hell' since he had "known the truth and fallen away." About twenty years ago, Roger and I visited Joe Good's congregation.and what an eye opener that was! To make a long story short.that opened a flood gate.because some things were brought to my attention that as hard as I tried, I could just not skim over. could no longer hold on to so many of my pre-conceived ideas about the 'old law,' and I began to question everything that I had been taught in the church of christ. I too read Hezlop's book, The Two Babylons, and it had a great impact on me as well. What I did not know was that I had begun on a path that James had started many years ago with his Sabbath observance; and it was not until we spoke on the phone one evening that we realized that we were actually on a similar path. It is amazing to me that we separately found HaShem and Torah, yet why should I be amazed.we see this over and over again. "Two from a family, one from a town." right? I was ecstatic on one hand to have found Torah, but I was still in the grieving process of giving up Jesus. It was a very difficult time for me because I just didn't know how go about doing this as I had loved Jesus for as long as I can remember; yet I was reading Torah with new eyes and the more I read the more I knew that my preconceived ideas and the very foundation that I had built my life on was crumbling beneath me. I remember being utterly broken and grief stricken about what to do with Jesus and in talking to James on the phone; I pleaded with him for answers. I had read his original little paper, RAF, but was still so conflicted because I just couldn't find any peace. I will always remember the only advice he gave me.and that was to go find a quiet place, a closet, kneel on the floor and pray to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Well, that is what I did, more than once. I did not receive an instantaneous answer but gradually I came to the same conclusion as you did, Pat, when I began to realize that all of my adoration and thanksgiving needed to be directed to HaShem because it was HaShem, not Jesus who had been with me since a child. And that to honor the memory of Jesus (Blessed be his Memory), I needed to understand him as he would have wanted me to, as a human being created by the Eternal who owed all his allegiance to HaShem, the One G-D of Israel! It was because of Jesus that I, like many others, came to Torah in the first place and for that I will be eternally grateful. I really did not intend to get into 'my story' here, Pat. I was just so taken by yours that I began to reflect on some of the similarities between us...and the words just poured out.I could write on and on and include how I came to convert to Judaism, but that would take way too long, and I really must get back to the tedious work involved in my job search! Thank you so much for sharing your story, Pat! Love and shavua tov on this the 2nd day of Sabbath, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:40 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Hi Betty, That's right, Cody and I are O'Neills. Yair Davidy is also a descedant of Nial of the Nine Hostages, and has done a great deal of research on the subject. I had already converted to Judaism before I found out about the family connection to Judah, but I had been hearing HaShem tell me to "join myself to the Jews" for a long time before I converted. My first reaction to Judaism (which was my first trip to Israel in the early '80's) was a great desire to see all Judah "saved." I would pray and pray for the Jews. I would cry out to HaShem and say that if I was in the Jews' place, and I discovered I was wrong in my beliefs, I would immediately switch! In fact, I prayed that prayer over and over again as I diligently prayed for the Jews, and meant it from the very bottom of my heart. I even started writing a book to explain to Judah why they needed to become Christians. I determined to use only "Old" Testament references. The only problem was, the more I studied, the less I had to say! My studies were not lining up with my beliefs as I had always assumed they would. Among so many other things, I was discovering the many, many similarities of my religion with the pagen religions. (The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop was a real eye opener!) Finally, one morning as I awakened, I heard HaShem speak to me, "Numbers 23:19" as a PR. I very carefully looked up the Hebrew words of that verse and was amazed to find that in Hebrew, it actually says: "G-d in NOT a man...........NOR THE SON OF A HUMAN BEING." ..........G-D WASN'T MARY'S SON!!! I was flabergasted!!!! After all the other things I had learned that were slowly taking away all my self-assuredness about my religious belief system (actually, my GREAT ARROGANCE concerning my belief system!), here was THIS bomb! HOW could it be that I was the one with the wrong belief system????? All the things I had been learing as I tried to write my book for the Jews, using only the Tanach, suddenly came into vivid focus! I finally understood what HaShem had been telling me for years! I did what I had been promising him I would do (never dreaming I could have been the one in the wrong!), I repented for having worshipped a man as G-d for so many years (not to mention trying to convince Jews to do the same!), and joined myself to the Jews. It was VERY difficult giving up Jesus, who had been the love and the focus of my life, but I slowly began to realize that ALL the Divine attributes I had believed belonged to Jesus were actually HaShem's ALONE! Slowly I was able to transfer my love and allegiance to HaShem alone. It wasn't an easy fix by any means! I grieved for a few years over the loss of Jesus, but I was slowly realizing that it was HaShem Who had always been there for me, loving me, forgiving me through His great Mercy and Grace, and gently leading me to follow Him and Him alone. I met Yair Davidiy after having converted to Judaism, and he began teaching me about my ancestry. We first spoke on the phone in the mid '90's. I began to read all that he had written on the subject of some Irish who had Jewish ancestry. Yair continued to learn more about this subject over the years, including the fact that he himself was actually a descendant of Nial of the Nine Hostages too! The more I learned, the more I realized that HaShem had slowly and patiently led me back to my roots. I think He is doing the same for the descendants of Judah and Ephraim all over the world. Today, I am still thanking HaShem for saving me. Avigail/Pat _____ From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:00:11 -0500 Very interesting, Hanoch.and Avigail! Am I remembering correctly that you have the O'Neill coat of arms in your ancestry? Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:53 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' That's the red hand of Zerach in the Star of David. Zerach was the twin brother of Peretz. They were the sons of Judah and Tamar. Nial of the Nine Hostages of Ulster, who reigned from 379 to 405 CE claimed to be descended from Zerach, and that hand is also found in the O'Neill coat of arms because they are direct descendants of his. Also around the O'Neill coat of arms is a red ribbon for the red cord tied on Zerach's wrist when he stuck his hand out first, but then Peretz (whose name means "making a breach") cut in front of him and was born first. Jewish descendants DO turn up in the oddest places!!!!! Avigail _____ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:32:57 -0400 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Please read the report below (from Yair Davidy's Brit Am mailings), and look at the flags in Ulster County - Hanoch 3. Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner From: ENSEMBLE CLIFFORD-SMYTH On Saturday the 6th of June 2009, we passed through a newly built housing estate south west of Ballymena in Northern Ireland; as we approach the traditional annual commemorations of the Battle of the Boyne such Protestant, unionist and loyalists housing estates are bedecked in Union Jacks, Northern Ireland flags and other symbols of loyalty to the British Crown. A few years ago ,many of these estates adopted the Israeli flag and flew that flag too. Obviously Ulster loyalists find common cause with Israel in regard to their conflict over land & identity; this year though we encounter a new phenomenon someone has synthesised or fused or married the Northern Ireland flag with that of the state of Israel. ( I attach the pics. including a pic of me in my Titanic Tartan kilt ! But it's the flags we are interested in.) I have reports of Israeli flags flying in other parts of Ulster. Clifford Ulster Israeli Combined Banner Photos Clifford Ulster Flag Magen David Ulster Flag -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090615/cd4cf877/attachment.html From sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au Tue Jun 16 06:04:46 2009 From: sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au (Sandra Inglis) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:04:46 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Re PR Regarding " Living the Shema" Message-ID: Shalom Pamela, Thank you for your prayers. I read Joe's article and I was encouraged by it. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. For some reason whenever Joe posts, his message never comes through on my email, I don't know why, but I was able to read his message which was at the end of your email to him. I really appreciate your prayers. I am feeling better, but still have down times. The problems in my family are still there, but I am coping better thanks to everyone here. Shalom and Blessings, Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/ff9ed3e9/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 06:37:24 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:37:24 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "Netanyahu Surrendered" Message-ID: <855590370906160437h60573338j3517729f78135afd@mail.gmail.com> There is so much here that is SO TRUE...and I think everyone should read it AND think about it. From the always interesting and provocative, "Samson Blinded" - * Hanoch* Samson Blinded has posted a new item, *'Netanyahu surrendered'* Where venerable Yitzhak Shamir, the former commander of LEHI terrorist group, caved in to American pressure, Netanyahu stood no chance - especially since he had already surrendered during his prior term as prime minister. Netanyahu raised two demands for accepting a Palestinian state. One is that it either be demilitarized or Israel receive international security guarantees. After the Versailles Treaty, Rhineland was demilitarized, and so was Sinai under the 1957 ceasefire agreement; the world did nothing when Nazis and Egyptians marched troops into their own land. When UNIFIL cannot stop missile smuggling by Hezbollah, it is impossible that the world can live up to Netanyahu's requirement of ensuring that missiles won't be smuggled into the West Bank. Palestinians are unlikely to accept demilitarization of their state, but even if they do, nothing precludes them from changing their constitution a year later. Jews had international security guarantees. Not even in ghettos and death camps, but in 1957 from Eisenhower who promised to keep the Tiran Straits open. When Egypt closed them in 1967, Israel was left alone to fight. International guarantees were excellent in 1972 when Russians and Americans brokered Israeli-Egyptian ceasefire. Netanyahu's second demand is Palestinians recognizing Israel as a Jewish state. What does that mean? Jewish according to Meretz which accepts an Arab right to vote the Jewish state out of existence? Even if Abbas recognizes Israel as a Jewish state just like Palestine is an Arab one, that won't preclude Palestinians in Israel to claim their democratic rights. To his credit, Netanyahu did not endorse a two-state solution, but rather a self-governing Palestinian entity. To his shame, he failed to realize that such an entity will eventually become a state. Netanyahu took a firm stance on the non-issue of settlement growth. Except for the three towns and several large villages across the Green Line, natural growth in the settlements is negligible. The issue became so hot that Obama and Abbas would find it hard to retreat from their demands, and the peace negotiations can be stalled. Netanyahu approach, intended to buy Israel time until Obama cools off on the Palestinian issue, is destructive. If Israel accepts a Palestinian state in principle, all the rest is details. America will shower Israel with fake security guarantees, and Abbas can mutter that he accepts Israel as a Jewish or any other state its citizens decide to call it. Instead, Netanyahu must have been honest and straightforward: This is a conflict between West and Muslims rather than Israel and Palestinian Arabs. Arab countries want Israeli-Palestinian conflict rather than peace. The Saudi peace initiative does not include Iran, which is worth all Arabs combined. Palestinians want international prominence of the conflict rather than a tiny non-viable state. Fatah hates to have a state because in the absence of IDF Hamas would take over it. Jewish problem with the Palestinian state is not security; a terrorist group cannot destroy the fourt-strongest army in the world. Rather, Israel cannot accept a Palestinian state because Judea is ours, is the Promised Land. Israel will not accept moralizing from Europeans and Americans who butchered tens of millions in the past decades and still hold colonial possessions. Israel will not scale back its retaliation against the terrorists armed with rockets. We value the relationship with American administration, but won't let it dictate policies of the Jewish state. You may comment athttp://samsonblinded.org/blog/netanyahu-surrendered.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/2608236c/attachment.html From dstone34 at cox.net Tue Jun 16 07:20:54 2009 From: dstone34 at cox.net (Diana Stone) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:20:54 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Audio: Obama, Netanyahu, & the War of Gog and Magog Message-ID: <1258996B0A0B400D9AD9F70895DAC3CC@toshibauser> ----- Original Message ----- From: Diana Stone Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:17 AM Subject: Audio: Obama, Netanyahu, & the War of Gog and Magog Audio: Obama, Netanyahu, & the War of Gog and Magog http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/News.aspx/1073 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/a8ab433c/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 07:29:45 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:29:45 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] The EU's pressure....and my reaction Message-ID: <855590370906160529g2a77446al67a9871ceca7dbe9@mail.gmail.com> When I was 18, the UN passed an insane resolution that "Zionism = Racism." Being a reserved, sensitive, shy sophomore in college, I began wearing a button (that went so well with my used, faded Army jacket) that a friend made that read, " F--k the UN" - just like that, with the blanks in it. I'm hoping there is someone in Israel that can make a simple button that I can wear, that has the following written on it: "F--k the EU" - it's short, but kind of sweet, don't you think?!? :-) Hmmmm...maybe a t-shirt with that written on it, would be even better! Anyone in the t-shirt business?? Maybe an English/Hebrew version? * Hanoch* Daily Israel Report Subscribe (free) Home News News Briefs Opinion Judaism Features Blogs Admin Radio | Live TV Jukebox Israel Pics Services RSS Advertise No Upgrade in Israel-EU Ties Sivan 23, 5769, 15 June 09 07:43 by by Maayana Miskin (IsraelNN.com) The European Union decided Monday not to upgrade ties with Israel despite Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's agreement in principle on Sunday to establish a Palestinian Authority-led Arab state. EU leaders had previously announced that they would not upgrade ties with Israel until seeing progress in Israel-PA talks. *EU ministers labeled Netanyahu's speech ?insufficient.?* In order to upgrade ties, ?we need a few steps more,? said Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn. French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and Finland Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb agreed that Netanyahu's speech did not warrant an upgrade in ties. Kouchner praised Netanyahu's government for refusing to grant building permits to Jews living in Judea and Samaria, but criticized the Prime Minister for failing to mention the Israeli presence in Judea and Samaria in his speech. Italian Foreign Minister France Frattini expressed concern over Netanyahu's comments regarding Jerusalem. Netanyahu referred to Jerusalem as Israel's united capital, a statement that angered PA leaders, who claim eastern Jerusalem as their future capital. EU ministers are scheduled to meet Monday evening with Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman. The EU froze plans to improve financial and political ties with Israel in early 2009. EU ministers have demanded that Israel first commit to the establishment of an Arab state in Judea, Samaria and Gaza. The PA has expressed support for the freeze in EU-Israel relations. PA leaders have called on the EU to insist that Israel freeze all construction in Jewish towns in Judea and Samaria, and remove checkpoints and roadblocks in the area. www.IsraelNationalNews.com ? Copyright IsraelNationalNews.com Subscribe to the free Daily Israel Report - sub.israelnn.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/830c1b16/attachment.html From webhulon at msn.com Tue Jun 16 08:13:28 2009 From: webhulon at msn.com (Web Hulon) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:13:28 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] The EU's pressure....and my reaction In-Reply-To: <855590370906160529g2a77446al67a9871ceca7dbe9@mail.gmail.com> References: <855590370906160529g2a77446al67a9871ceca7dbe9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Shalom Hanoch, I can make the button. Send your mailing address to my regular email and I will send it to you. Web Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:29:45 -0400 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] The EU's pressure....and my reaction When I was 18, the UN passed an insane resolution that "Zionism = Racism." Being a reserved, sensitive, shy sophomore in college, I began wearing a button (that went so well with my used, faded Army jacket) that a friend made that read, " F--k the UN" - just like that, with the blanks in it. I'm hoping there is someone in Israel that can make a simple button that I can wear, that has the following written on it: "F--k the EU" - it's short, but kind of sweet, don't you think?!? :-) Hmmmm...maybe a t-shirt with that written on it, would be even better! Anyone in the t-shirt business?? Maybe an English/Hebrew version? Hanoch Daily Israel Report Subscribe (free) Home News News Briefs Opinion Judaism Features Blogs Admin Radio | Live TV Jukebox Israel Pics Services RSS Advertise No Upgrade in Israel-EU Ties Sivan 23, 5769, 15 June 09 07:43by by Maayana Miskin (IsraelNN.com) The European Union decided Monday not to upgrade ties with Israel despite Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's agreement in principle on Sunday to establish a Palestinian Authority-led Arab state. EU leaders had previously announced that they would not upgrade ties with Israel until seeing progress in Israel-PA talks. EU ministers labeled Netanyahu's speech ?insufficient.? In order to upgrade ties, ?we need a few steps more,? said Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn. French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and Finland Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb agreed that Netanyahu's speech did not warrant an upgrade in ties. Kouchner praised Netanyahu's government for refusing to grant building permits to Jews living in Judea and Samaria, but criticized the Prime Minister for failing to mention the Israeli presence in Judea and Samaria in his speech. Italian Foreign Minister France Frattini expressed concern over Netanyahu's comments regarding Jerusalem. Netanyahu referred to Jerusalem as Israel's united capital, a statement that angered PA leaders, who claim eastern Jerusalem as their future capital. EU ministers are scheduled to meet Monday evening with Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman. The EU froze plans to improve financial and political ties with Israel in early 2009. EU ministers have demanded that Israel first commit to the establishment of an Arab state in Judea, Samaria and Gaza. The PA has expressed support for the freeze in EU-Israel relations. PA leaders have called on the EU to insist that Israel freeze all construction in Jewish towns in Judea and Samaria, and remove checkpoints and roadblocks in the area. www.IsraelNationalNews.com ? Copyright IsraelNationalNews.com Subscribe to the free Daily Israel Report - sub.israelnn.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/09d49f34/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 08:20:59 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (Margie Creech) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] The EU's pressure....and my reaction Message-ID: <613439.12744.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Would I love to have one of those T-shirts!? --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Hanoch Young wrote: From: Hanoch Young Subject: [Dialogue] The EU's pressure....and my reaction To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 7:29 AM ?When I was 18, the UN passed an insane resolution that "Zionism = Racism."? Being a reserved, sensitive, shy sophomore in college, I began wearing a button (that went so well with my used, faded Army jacket) that a friend made that read, " F--k the UN"? - just like that, with the blanks in it.? I'm hoping there is someone in Israel that can make a simple button that I can wear, that has the following written on it:? "F--k the EU" - it's short, but kind of sweet, don't you think?!?? :-) ? ?? Hmmmm...maybe a t-shirt with that written on it, would be even better!? Anyone in the t-shirt business??? Maybe an English/Hebrew version? ???????? ????????????????????????????? Hanoch Daily Israel Report Subscribe (free) Home News News Briefs Opinion Judaism Features Blogs Admin Radio | Live TV Jukebox Israel Pics Services RSS Advertise No Upgrade in Israel-EU Ties Sivan 23, 5769, 15 June 09 07:43by by Maayana Miskin (IsraelNN.com) The European Union decided Monday not to upgrade ties with Israel despite Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's agreement in principle on Sunday to establish a Palestinian Authority-led Arab state. EU leaders had previously announced that they would not upgrade ties with Israel until seeing progress in Israel-PA talks. EU ministers labeled Netanyahu's speech ?insufficient.? In order to upgrade ties, ?we need a few steps more,? said Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn. French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and Finland Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb agreed that Netanyahu's speech did not warrant an upgrade in ties. Kouchner praised Netanyahu's government for refusing to grant building permits to Jews living in Judea and Samaria, but criticized the Prime Minister for failing to mention the Israeli presence in Judea and Samaria in his speech. Italian Foreign Minister France Frattini expressed concern over Netanyahu's comments regarding Jerusalem. Netanyahu referred to Jerusalem as Israel's united capital, a statement that angered PA leaders, who claim eastern Jerusalem as their future capital. EU ministers are scheduled to meet Monday evening with Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman. The EU froze plans to improve financial and political ties with Israel in early 2009. EU ministers have demanded that Israel first commit to the establishment of an Arab state in Judea, Samaria and Gaza. The PA has expressed support for the freeze in EU-Israel relations. PA leaders have called on the EU to insist that Israel freeze all construction in Jewish towns in Judea and Samaria, and remove checkpoints and roadblocks in the area. www.IsraelNationalNews.com ? Copyright IsraelNationalNews.com Subscribe to the free Daily Israel Report - sub.israelnn.com -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/06239ff7/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 08:43:30 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:43:30 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] The EU's pressure....and my reaction In-Reply-To: References: <855590370906160529g2a77446al67a9871ceca7dbe9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <855590370906160643w5a5cfe41ue4b23f54a5a3bc76@mail.gmail.com> Web - You're the best! My current address is: Hanoch Young 200 East 10th Street Suite # 111 New York, N.Y. 10003 - Until August 31st Hanoch Young 51/1 Rechov Yigal Yadin Modi'in, 71700 ISRAEL - as of September 8th..... Toda!!!!!!!!!! * Hanoch * On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Web Hulon wrote: > Shalom Hanoch, > I can make the button. Send your mailing address to my regular email and I > will send it to you. > Web > > ------------------------------ > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:29:45 -0400 > From: youngbarzel at gmail.com > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Subject: [Dialogue] The EU's pressure....and my reaction > > > When I was 18, the UN passed an insane resolution that "Zionism = > Racism." Being a reserved, sensitive, shy sophomore in college, I began > wearing a button (that went so well with my used, faded Army jacket) that a > friend made that read, " F--k the UN" - just like that, with the blanks in > it. I'm hoping there is someone in Israel that can make a simple button > that I can wear, that has the following written on it: "F--k the EU" - it's > short, but kind of sweet, don't you think?!? :-) > Hmmmm...maybe a t-shirt with that written on it, would be even better! > Anyone in the t-shirt business?? Maybe an English/Hebrew version? > * Hanoch* > Daily Israel Report > Subscribe (free) > Home News News > Briefs Opinion > Judaism Features > Blogs Admin > Radio | Live > TV > Jukebox Israel Pics > Services > RSS Advertise > > > No Upgrade in Israel-EU Ties Sivan 23, 5769, 15 June 09 07:43 > by by Maayana Miskin > (IsraelNN.com) The European Union decided Monday not to upgrade ties with > Israel despite Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's agreement in principle on > Sunday to establish a Palestinian Authority-led Arab state. EU leaders had > previously announced that they would not upgrade ties with Israel until > seeing progress in Israel-PA talks. > *EU ministers labeled Netanyahu's speech ?insufficient.?* In order to > upgrade ties, ?we need a few steps more,? said Luxembourg Foreign Minister > Jean Asselborn. > French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and Finland Foreign Minister > Alexander Stubb agreed that Netanyahu's speech did not warrant an upgrade in > ties. Kouchner praised Netanyahu's government for refusing to grant building > permits to Jews living in Judea and Samaria, but criticized the Prime > Minister for failing to mention the Israeli presence in Judea and Samaria in > his speech. > Italian Foreign Minister France Frattini expressed concern over Netanyahu's > comments regarding Jerusalem. Netanyahu referred to Jerusalem as Israel's > united capital, a statement that angered PA leaders, who claim eastern > Jerusalem as their future capital. > EU ministers are scheduled to meet Monday evening with Foreign Minister > Avigdor Lieberman. > The EU froze plans to improve financial and political ties with Israel in > early 2009. EU ministers have demanded that Israel first commit to the > establishment of an Arab state in Judea, Samaria and Gaza. > The PA has expressed support for the freeze in EU-Israel relations. PA > leaders have called on the EU to insist that Israel freeze all construction > in Jewish towns in Judea and Samaria, and remove checkpoints and roadblocks > in the area. > www.IsraelNationalNews.com > ? Copyright IsraelNationalNews.com > Subscribe to the free Daily Israel Report - sub.israelnn.com > > ------------------------------ > Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. Check > it out. > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/0b8803f4/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 08:46:58 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:46:58 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] The EU's pressure....and my reaction In-Reply-To: <613439.12744.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <613439.12744.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <855590370906160646q77c5d831v35f9136ae96723a7@mail.gmail.com> Hey Margie - I've just begun to do some googling, and so far I've come up with: ' Screw .EU' (not sure what the ' . ' stands for) And just found one that says: FU EU But my search has just begun.....I WILL be the best dressed Jew in all of Israel!! More to follow - * Hanoch* On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Margie Creech wrote: > Would I love to have one of those T-shirts! > > > --- On *Tue, 6/16/09, Hanoch Young * wrote: > > > From: Hanoch Young > Subject: [Dialogue] The EU's pressure....and my reaction > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 7:29 AM > > > When I was 18, the UN passed an insane resolution that "Zionism = > Racism." Being a reserved, sensitive, shy sophomore in college, I began > wearing a button (that went so well with my used, faded Army jacket) that a > friend made that read, " F--k the UN" - just like that, with the blanks in > it. I'm hoping there is someone in Israel that can make a simple button > that I can wear, that has the following written on it: "F--k the EU" - it's > short, but kind of sweet, don't you think?!? :-) > Hmmmm...maybe a t-shirt with that written on it, would be even better! > Anyone in the t-shirt business?? Maybe an English/Hebrew version? > * Hanoch* > Daily Israel Report > Subscribe (free) > Home News News > Briefs Opinion > Judaism Features > Blogs Admin > Radio | Live > TV > Jukebox Israel Pics > Services > RSS Advertise > > > No Upgrade in Israel-EU Ties Sivan 23, 5769, 15 June 09 07:43 > by by Maayana Miskin > (IsraelNN.com) The European Union decided Monday not to upgrade ties with > Israel despite Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's agreement in principle on > Sunday to establish a Palestinian Authority-led Arab state. EU leaders had > previously announced that they would not upgrade ties with Israel until > seeing progress in Israel-PA talks. > *EU ministers labeled Netanyahu's speech ?insufficient.?* In order to > upgrade ties, ?we need a few steps more,? said Luxembourg Foreign Minister > Jean Asselborn. > French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and Finland Foreign Minister > Alexander Stubb agreed that Netanyahu's speech did not warrant an upgrade in > ties. Kouchner praised Netanyahu's government for refusing to grant building > permits to Jews living in Judea and Samaria, but criticized the Prime > Minister for failing to mention the Israeli presence in Judea and Samaria in > his speech. > Italian Foreign Minister France Frattini expressed concern over Netanyahu's > comments regarding Jerusalem. Netanyahu referred to Jerusalem as Israel's > united capital, a statement that angered PA leaders, who claim eastern > Jerusalem as their future capital. > EU ministers are scheduled to meet Monday evening with Foreign Minister > Avigdor Lieberman. > The EU froze plans to improve financial and political ties with Israel in > early 2009. EU ministers have demanded that Israel first commit to the > establishment of an Arab state in Judea, Samaria and Gaza. > The PA has expressed support for the freeze in EU-Israel relations. PA > leaders have called on the EU to insist that Israel freeze all construction > in Jewish towns in Judea and Samaria, and remove checkpoints and roadblocks > in the area. > www.IsraelNationalNews.com > ? Copyright IsraelNationalNews.com > Subscribe to the free Daily Israel Report - sub.israelnn.com > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/088950a6/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 16 11:20:34 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:20:34 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] When is this pinhead gonna go away? Message-ID: <061620091620.18523.4A37C651000B9F3F0000485B22230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Carter to Obama: Remove Hamas From Terror List Former President Jimmy Carter says he will ask the Obama administration to remove the militant Palestinian group from the U.S.-designated terror list, just as Hamas says it foiled a bomb plot against Carter.. Former President Jimmy Carter will urge the Obama administration to remove Hamas from the terrorist list, FOX News has learned. Carter, a chief defender of the U.S.-designated terror group, said Tuesday he will meet with officials in the Obama administration in two days to discuss his latest trip to the Middle East. Meanwhile, two Palestinian sources told FOX News that the group had discovered two roadside bombs planted near a crossing between Israel and Gaza on a path Carter's convoy took to meet with the group's leaders. Carter was granted special waivers by the U.S. Secret Service allowing him to enter Gaza. Employees of the U.S. executive branch are not allowed into the strip since a roadside bomb killed three U.S. security personnel in 2003. Carter was visiting with Hamas leaders to try to persuade them to accept the international community's conditions for ending its boycott of the Islamic militant group. The international community has asked Hamas to recognize Israel, renounce violence and accept previous peace deals as part of ongoing efforts for Palestinians overall to acquire their own country. Hamas has refused. Carter said he feels personally responsible that American weapons were used to fight in Gaza Strip last year, when Israeli Defense Forces entered the strip to stop the launch of rockets from there into Israel. Hamas is considered a terrorist group by the U.S. and Europe and has been shunned by much of the world. Israel and Egypt have kept Gaza's borders virtually closed since Hamas overran the territory in 2007, two years after Israel withdrew from Gaza in a handover to Palestinians. According to two eyewitnesses, including a 15-year-old boy, the bombs were intended to hit Carter's vehicle as he exited Gaza. There is some suspicion that Hamas extremists linked to Al Qaeda may be behind the attempt. The boy told FOX News he saw three Palestinian men planting bombs, four of which were later found near a mound less than a mile from the Israel-Gaza border. The boy said he notified Hamas police, who detonated the bombs and took the three men into custody. FOX News' Reena Ninan and The Associated Press contributed to this report. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/9f5abd91/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 16 11:27:19 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:27:19 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] ???? Message-ID: <061620091627.3923.4A37C7E7000AF55100000F5322230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Obama just said that it is not the United States business to "meddle" in the affairs of other countries such as Iran's elections. So how come it's ok to demand that Israel accept a US backed two-state solution? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/f096b8df/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 16 11:41:38 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:41:38 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Yet another pinhead! Message-ID: <061620091641.4886.4A37CB420003EEC20000131622230706129B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Blair: Negotiate 'Right of Return' Reported: 18:32 PM - Jun/16/09 (IsraelNN.com) Quartet envoy Tony Blair said Monday that Israel should be open to negotiating the Arab demand for ?right of return,? which would allow millions who claim descent from Arabs who fled the Jewish state during the War of Independence to claim Israeli citizenship. Israel has rejected the "right of return," and says the demand aims to destroy Israel as a Jewish state. Blair also criticized Israel for conditions in Gaza, and said Israel should work for ?real change on the ground? in order to give Gaza residents ?hope and the chance to lead a different life.? Israel and Egypt both closed their borders with Gaza in 2007, when the area was taken over by Hamas. Since that time humanitarian aid has been allowed into Gaza, but many exports and imports are blocked, and few residents of the area are allowed to leave. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/2667228c/attachment.html From tposborne77 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 11:44:14 2009 From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com (Tracy Osborne) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] ???? In-Reply-To: <061620091627.3923.4A37C7E7000AF55100000F5322230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <061620091627.3923.4A37C7E7000AF55100000F5322230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <924173.23643.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> GREAT POINT JOHN! Tracy ? ________________________________ From: "carlson_john at bellsouth.net" To: Dialogue Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:27:19 PM Subject: [Dialogue] ???? Obama just said that it is not the United States business to "meddle" in the affairs of other countries such as Iran's elections.? So how come it's ok to demand that Israel accept a US backed two-state solution? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/a6c25f38/attachment.html From rossknichols at me.com Tue Jun 16 13:11:11 2009 From: rossknichols at me.com (Ross Nichols) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:11:11 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Succoth 09 registration Message-ID: <22FA793B-FF7B-4AC2-937F-B7DE6AF023A1@me.com> Shalom all! Please take the time to register on line for the upcoming festival of Succoth. I will be sending out regular updates over the next several weeks as we work out the details. This year's campout and conference is going to be the best yet. Www.rootsoffaith.org/succoth-09-registration More later Sent from my iPhone From creechmargie at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 14:06:34 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (Margie Creech) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Re Ways to reach young children. Message-ID: <624519.80810.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Sandra, I remembered something else I use to do with my kids when they were 5years old and continued to do through their school years.? It was?their doing the Torah part.? Every Friday instead of having regular class we would go to the nursing home.? They hated the idea when I first presented it but it took only one visit to change their minds.? We eventually adopted a grandmother, a lady who never had family members visit her.? We?started visiting her first and the next thing I knew the kids were going to every room and I literally had to make them leave the nursing home.? We were blessed beyond measure.?The faces of the people when they'd see the kids walking up the walk was priceless. They love?visits from children. ?My youngest son, our wild child, has a love for the elderly to this day.? I visit a nursing home here once a week and not too long ago he wanted to go with me.? He is 23 now.? Just thought I'd throw that out?as an activity?you and your grandchildren could think about?doing.? The need is great and not only that it gives those?children a heart to serve and do something meaningful.? ? Margie? ? --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Sandra Inglis wrote: From: Sandra Inglis Subject: [Dialogue] Re Ways to reach young children. To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 3:40 AM Shalom Eliron, Elsheva and Margie ? I think all of your ideas are excellant. I don't know if I could be much help putting a cd together, but I like the idea. I could give you the lyrics to the songs I sing to my grandchildren when I eventually write them down, but as far as putting music to them someone else would have to do that, as everytime I sing them I come up with a different tune and different lyrics for that matter. I don't remember tunes very well and have been told I am tone deaf, but my grandchildren don't seem to mind, they like me singing to them anyway, even if the tune is never the same twice. ? Margie I really like the idea of singing Psalms to children. I have a problem remembering songs and tunes, that is why I make up my own and why they change every time I sing them. ? If I tried I could probaby come up with some stories from the tanakh that would be suitable for young children. I could send them to you and you all could proof read them and give suggestions how to improve them if necessary. If someone else could illustrate them (I'm not much good at drawing) we could post them on the children's page on SWW. If the illustrations were outline pictures, then the children could print the story and colour the picture.? Others could also submit stories to be posted on the childrens page if they like. Just an idea!? What do you all think? ? Shalom, Sandra. ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/a7e5167f/attachment.html From rlibby03 at maine.rr.com Tue Jun 16 19:01:48 2009 From: rlibby03 at maine.rr.com (Dick L) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:01:48 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Netanyahu's speech today In-Reply-To: <061620090631.5870.4A373C3D000AE064000016EE22243323629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <855590370906141220n7a9cd5adr4681fe47ef3da064@mail.gmail.com><061520090039.11898.4A35983C000B640200002E7A22230650629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net><855590370906141812j237ef5dej21e964cbe550c94c@mail.gmail.com><061520090132.9374.4A35A4AB000DE1F40000249E22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <061620090631.5870.4A373C3D000AE064000016EE22243323629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: I believe he knows they will not accept anything of the kind?? Dick L .Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Netanyahu's speech today Yesterday's news leaves me wondering if everyone (including me) really understood Bibi's message. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- John, Your question??Does anyone think that the PA is going to recognize Israel as a state? ? This was my question exactly when I read this post. And our buddy, Hanoch, gave a great answer?as usual. This is the $64,000 question ( for those of you who are old enough to remember that TV show years ago?! Interesting times indeed! Elisheva/Betty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:32 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Netanyahu's speech today You're right Hanoch, I meant to say Jewish state. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Hey folks - Well, in the original Oslo Accords (1993), the PLO was supposed to amend their charter calling for the destruction of the State of Israel; they never did, and of course, idiots that we are, we never called them on it. We just kept ignoring (with the urging of the White House, of course) what they were and weren't saying vs what they were doing. And remember, it's not just recognizing Israel as a state, but as a JEWISH state! Now, frankly, I don't think they will, just as Arafat (may he rot forever) didn't take everything Barak had offered him, and launched the Oslo War. However, I learned an important lesson many years ago in the Bronx - never threaten (or, in this case - offer) to do something you aren't willing to actually do. Bibi threw down the gauntlet, but what happens if the Arabs call his bluff?? We are definitely living in "interesting times." Hanoch On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:39 PM, wrote: Does anyone think that the PA is going to recognize Israel as a state? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- June 14, 2009 Netanyahu OK with a demilitarized Palestinian state JERUSALEM (JTA) -- Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel would agree to a demilitarized Palestinian state. in a major foreign policy address Sunday at Bar-Ilan University, Netanyahu also said the Palestinians to have a state must recognize Israel as a Jewish state."It is impossible to agree on the principle of a Palestinian state without these" conditions, he said, according to an English translation provided with a video feed on the Bar-Ilan University Web site. If Israel receives assurances that the two conditions are met, Netanyahu said, "we will be ready in the future" for a "demilitarized Palestinian state that exists alongside a Jewish state." Such a demilitarized state, he said, could not import weapons, make pacts with enemies of Israel and would not be able to close its airspace to Israel. Netanyahu also called for immediate peace talks with Palestinian leaders, without preconditions. "We want both Israeli and Palestinian children to live without war," he said, citing the root of conflict to the refusal of regional entities to accept Israel as Jewish state. "We must ask ourselves, why has peace not yet arrived after 60 years?" Netanyahu, whose Bar-Ilan address was called a response to President Obama's Cairo speech earlier this month in which the U.S. leader tried to reach out to the world's Muslims, said he was prepared to meet with the leaders of neighboring Arab countries at any time to promote regional peace. "We want peace in Damascus, in Riyadh, in Beirut, and also in Jerusalem," he said. In another portion of the speech that was closely watched at the White House, Netanyahu said that Israel had no intention of creating new West Bank settlements or expanding existing towns, but said there is a "need to allow residents to live normal lives." The Israeli leader did not expound. The United States has demanded all settlement activity be stopped, including "natural growth." Netanyahu added that settlers are not "enemies of peace" but "are our brothers." He reiterated his deep concern over Iran. "The Iranian threat looms large in front of us, as we learned yesterday," Netanyahu said, referring to the apparent re-election of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, which has brought protests in the Islamic Republic over the fairness of the election. "The greatest danger" to the region, he said, is the intersection between "radical Islam and nuclear weapons." The prime minister also said that Jerusalem must remain united and that the Palestinian refugee problem "must be resolved outside Israel's borders." In an apparent response to Obama's statement in Cairo that the creation of Israel was "rooted in the tragic history" of the Holocaust, Netanyahu emphasized that the "connection between the land of Israel and the Jewish people has lasted more than 3,500 years." "This is not an alien land, this is the land of our forefathers," he said. "This is the homeland of the Jewish people, this is where our identity was forged." For updates on this story, visit JTA.org. _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.71/2178 - Release Date: 06/15/09 17:54:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/e3eebd06/attachment.html From chattertonw at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 16 19:56:06 2009 From: chattertonw at bellsouth.net (W Glenn Chatterton) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] ???? Message-ID: <56468.84882.qm@web83909.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> you obviously do not understand doublespeak --- On Tue, 6/16/09, carlson_john at bellsouth.net wrote: From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: [Dialogue] ???? To: "Dialogue" Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 11:27 AM Obama just said that it is not the United States business to "meddle" in the affairs of other countries such as Iran's elections.? So how come it's ok to demand that Israel accept a US backed two-state solution? ? ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/c3e3a90c/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Tue Jun 16 21:04:39 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:04:39 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Message-ID: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> Dear friends, Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after she posted the event regarding praying for our children. But she really is unable to do so. She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and is supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today..the doctor wants her to rest and take it easy for 5 days.a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on line. She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable. She really misses keeping up with all the posts. I told her that I would send a post out to explain. She didn't ask for prayer, but she could really use it! Thanks and love you all, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090616/0efdc58e/attachment.html From im50332 at bigpond.net.au Tue Jun 16 22:48:52 2009 From: im50332 at bigpond.net.au (Pamela Barbera) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:48:52 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Fw: Obamanation vs Reality * Human Shield or Terrorists * PA Doesn't Want Two States Message-ID: Obamanation vs Reality. Only One Option? U.S. envoy George Mitchell assured the Palestinians on Wednesday of Washington's commitment to a state of their own, calling its establishment the only viable solution to their conflict with Israel . U.S. President Barack Obama had made it clear "the only viable resolution to this conflict is for the aspirations of both sides to be met through two states," Mitchell said. (When politicians are unable or unwilling to see alternative options it says a lot about the limitations of their intelligence or political dishonesty! I can name at least 3 options; the Sinai Option is a better one for all parties!) Who Needs to Change? U.S. Middle East envoy George Mitchell, en route to Jerusalem, told reporters that U.S. President Barack Obama wants the Palestinian Authority and Israel to meet for "immediate" talks towards the creation of a new PA state, but PA Chairman Abbas refused. (No recognition of Israel as the Jewish state has been offered yet !) Obama Following the Path of Normal US Hypocrisy! U.S. President Barack Obama filed his first six month postponement of the U.S. embassy in Israel 's move from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, the White House announced a week ago. A 1995 law ordering the transfer of the U.S. embassy has been routinely delayed by subsequent U.S. presidents. Obama's Reaching out to the Muslim World - Another Waste. Giant transports were landing at Cairo airport, unloading a fleet of armoured vehicles, White House helicopters, counter-terror weapons and the vanguard of the 3,000 Secret Service officers backed by CIA and FBI personnel who will secure the US president during his stay in Egypt. (The US is ten trillion dollars in debt, wouldn't it cheaper to make speech in the White House? The result will be the same - Nara ! Have you ever seen the Muslim World 'reaching out' to the West - and, I don't mean the suicide bombers? After Obama's speech, the best response from Muslims "We'll wait and see") 'Friends' of Obama have Spoken! The PA was the first to welcome Obama's statements as a "new and different start." Nabil Abu Rudaineh, a spokesman for PA President Mahmoud Abbas, termed the speech a "clear and frank message to the Israelis." Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum welcomed what he called "Obama's calm tone." But, he continued, the speech was "full of contradictions and lacking in practical policies and steps to support Palestinian sovereignty on our(?) land." The Hamas spokesman said his movement would not accept the Quartet's conditions for recognition of Israel, renunciation of violence and acceptance of all previous agreements signed between the Palestinians and Israel. (Why must Israel talk to terrorist organizations in order to cede Jewish land to the fake nation? The US does not negotiate with Al Quaida, it destroys it!) Hypocrisy in US Military Budget. Four years after its cancellation, the U.S. Army continues to exploit technology from a laser weapon program developed with Israel. Mobile Tactical High Energy Laser in the army's research and development budget, but shows no funding through 2013. Quote of the Week: "I say this in a clear voice - if we receive a guarantee of this demilitarized unit, we will be prepared to reach agreement to a demilitarized Palestine side by side with the Jewish state." - Netanyahu set rigid conditions. Among them: unequivocal Palestinian recognition of Israel as the Jewish national state with Jerusalem as its capital, and full demilitarization for a Palestinian state - no army, no rockets or missiles, no control of airspace. - Sinai is the best place for creation of this "demilitarized unit"! Predictable Response from 'Peace-loving' PA. Senior PA negotiator Saeb Erekat rejected Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's speech on Israeli-PA diplomacy: "Netanyahu will have to wait 1,000 years for someone to agree to talk to him." Netanyahu had said that he was willing to talk and make peace with any Arab leader at any place and at any time. Problem Is Iran and Islamic Doctrine, Not Ahmadinejad. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was declared the winner of the Iranian presidential election late Friday. Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said that the problem was not who the president of Iran was, but with the actions of the regime. "The Iranian problem stems from the policy of the regime in Tehran, all the more so in light of Ahmadinejad's victory and the continuation of his rule." Time to Act Now! Ahmadinejad wins second presidential term up to 2013 - Iranians made it clear: No prospect of change in Iranian politics! Food for Thought. by Steven Shamrak Why are the children, grandchildren and grand-grandchildren of the people, who have left land of Israel during the independence war in order to accommodate extermination of the Jews by advancing Arab armies, still considered as refugees by the UN? Applying this logic, most of the people of the world are still refugees and entitled to UN aid! Human Shield' or Just Another Terrorist? Two Hamas militiamen were killed earlier last week by PA policemen in Kalkilya. Initially terrorists used a local woman as a human shield during the seven-hour gun battle before she herself threw a grenade at the policemen. (Most of the times Islamic terrorists use willing participants, who are prepared to martyr themselves, as 'Human Shields') Another UN anti-Israel Smoke Screen. A UN war crimes investigator acknowledged that his probe of possible war crimes by Israel is unlikely to lead to prosecutions. Israel has refused to cooperate with this bogus investigation and Hamas security often accompanied his team during their five-day trip to Gaza, raising questions about the ability of witnesses to freely describe the militant group's actions. (Several years ago the UN investigated the so-called Jenin Massacre with the same intentions and result!) Another US Friendly Act. Defense Minister Ehud Barak said a week agothat Israel "does not like" the fact that the United States has been supplying arms to Lebanon in recent months. "These weapons could reach Hizbullah," he warned. "We need to give a chance to the new government in Lebanon, but we must also demand that it [Lebanon ] fulfil its obligations under agreements, foremost among these decision 1701." Quote of the Week: "We're an independent country& Settlement in the Land of Israel is a basic right of the Jewish people which is not solely based on the Bible and the history of the Jewish people but a right which was recognized by the international community in the days of the Mandate& We are not in Judea and Samaria because of natural growth but because of our rights here." - Professor Moshe Arens, the former Defense Minister. IDF for Better Environment. The IDF is contributing to the protection of the environment by planning to place solar generators on all IDF bases to store electricity. When Self-hate and Apathy Take Over. Student council electioneering on the campus of Hebrew University in Jerusalem deteriorated into Nazi salutes by far-left and Communist students, according to one of the leaders of a Zionist youth movement. Corrupt Police Must be Purged. The national police force's Internal Affairs Unit (IAU) filed charges against 47 policemen or former policemen accused of taking part in a scheme to falsify records indicating extensive yeshiva studies that never took place, They allegedly illegally obtained certificates of higher education in Jewish studies cost the State hundreds of thousands of shekels in additional pay benefits. (Unethical policemen have no respect for the state and aspirations of Jewish patriots.) 'Poor Palestinians' Have Cash for Terror. PA Police have arrested six Hamas members in the West Bank suspected of planning acts against the Palestinian Authority and seized from them 1mn euros ($1.4m) and 21,000 Jordanian dinars ($29,750). PA Doesn't Want Two States. Minister Benny Begin (Likud) said on Wednesday that he rejected the two-state solution because it would not end the Palestinian Authority's demands for all of Israel (Shouldn't it be because Judea, Samaria and Gaza are Jewish land as the main reason?). Speaking at a conference of Likud Party founders in Tel Aviv, Begin said he believed the PA's plan was comprised of "two states on the path to one state - Palestine ". "The reality of the past 15 years is territory for terror, not peace," he said. Begin added that two states for two people was not a viable solution, and that failures in the peace process are to be blamed on lack of PA interest and not an Israeli unwillingness to make concession. "The Palestinians are interested in two stages, not two states." He said the Palestinians were refusing to acknowledge Israel as a Jewish state in order to keep their status as refugees and to fight for their right of return. Begin also claimed construction in settlements was "not an obstacle to peace, otherwise peace would have been born on the ruins of Katif". Correction: It was president Kazav, not Peres, investigated for rape and sexual assault. I was going to write about the president Peres corruption alligations, but the list is too long. Dear Readers, this independent publication needs your Support! Please, use PayPal (incl Visa or MC) - $18, $26, $36, $60, $180 Our main goal is to build support among both the Jewish and non-Jewish communities, regardless of their political and belief affiliations, in order to help them become active defenders and propagators of the Jewish National Goal - Eretz-Israel - the Land of Israel. We are not affiliated with or sponsored by any party or political group. Visit our website for more information. You are welcome to use its link or articles and letters on your website, FaceBook, YouTube and other profiles. NOTE: Dear readers this editorial letter is distributed to educate people about facts of Arab-Israel conflict. 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URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/39b4dd74/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Tue Jun 16 23:28:13 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:28:13 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM In-Reply-To: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> References: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> Message-ID: Yes, we need to pray for Kim! So very sorry to hear about her back pain. I cannot even imagine how she is managing to keep up with all she must do. Will continue to pray for her back, and will also pray that her headache subsides. Please keep us posted, Betty. My love to you both, Avigail/Pat From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:04:39 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Dear friends, Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after she posted the event regarding praying for our children. But she really is unable to do so. She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and is supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today?.the doctor wants her to rest and take it easy for 5 days?a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on line. She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable. She really misses keeping up with all the posts. I told her that I would send a post out to explain. She didn?t ask for prayer, but she could really use it! Thanks and love you all, Elisheva/Betty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/3cbc3012/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 17 01:09:41 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:09:41 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] ???? In-Reply-To: <56468.84882.qm@web83909.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <061720090609.15563.4A3888A5000794B300003CCB22230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> I'll count that as a good thing. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from W Glenn Chatterton : -------------- you obviously do not understand doublespeak --- On Tue, 6/16/09, carlson_john at bellsouth.net wrote: From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: [Dialogue] ???? To: "Dialogue" Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 11:27 AM Obama just said that it is not the United States business to "meddle" in the affairs of other countries such as Iran's elections. So how come it's ok to demand that Israel accept a US backed two-state solution? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/25042a09/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 17 01:13:19 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:13:19 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Re Ways to reach young children. In-Reply-To: <624519.80810.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <061720090613.17236.4A38897E000D3F650000435422230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> That's a great idea Margie. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Margie Creech : -------------- Sandra, I remembered something else I use to do with my kids when they were 5years old and continued to do through their school years. It was their doing the Torah part. Every Friday instead of having regular class we would go to the nursing home. They hated the idea when I first presented it but it took only one visit to change their minds. We eventually adopted a grandmother, a lady who never had family members visit her. We started visiting her first and the next thing I knew the kids were going to every room and I literally had to make them leave the nursing home. We were blessed beyond measure. The faces of the people when they'd see the kids walking up the walk was priceless. They love visits from children. My youngest son, our wild child, has a love for the elderly to this day. I visit a nursing home here once a week and not too long ago he wanted to go with me. He is 23 now. Just thought I'd throw that out as an activity you and your grandchildren could think about doing. The need is great and not only that it gives those children a heart to serve and do something meaningful. Margie --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Sandra Inglis wrote: From: Sandra Inglis Subject: [Dialogue] Re Ways to reach young children. To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 3:40 AM Shalom Eliron, Elsheva and Margie I think all of your ideas are excellant. I don't know if I could be much help putting a cd together, but I like the idea. I could give you the lyrics to the songs I sing to my grandchildren when I eventually write them down, but as far as putting music to them someone else would have to do that, as everytime I sing them I come up with a different tune and different lyrics for that matter. I don't remember tunes very well and have been told I am tone deaf, but my grandchildren don't seem to mind, they like me singing to them anyway, even if the tune is never the same twice. Margie I really like the idea of singing Psalms to children. I have a problem remembering songs and tunes, that is why I make up my own and why they change every time I sing them. If I tried I could probaby come up with some stories from the tanakh that would be suitable for young children. I could send them to you and you all could proof read them and give suggestions how to improve them if necessary. If someone else could illustrate them (I'm not much good at drawing) we could post them on the children's page on SWW. If the illustrations were outline pictures, then the children could print the story and colour the picture. Others could also submit stories to be posted on the childrens page if they like. Just an idea! What do you all think? Shalom, Sandra. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/c08f3a16/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 17 01:21:51 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:21:51 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Re Ways to reach young children. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <061720090621.20206.4A388B7F00001EB300004EEE22230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Okay Sandra, I'm collecting these ideas and with HaShem's help Kim will be back with us soon so we can work them out. I'll think about how to make this work. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Shalom Eliron, Elsheva and Margie I think all of your ideas are excellant. I don't know if I could be much help putting a cd together, but I like the idea. I could give you the lyrics to the songs I sing to my grandchildren when I eventually write them down, but as far as putting music to them someone else would have to do that, as everytime I sing them I come up with a different tune and different lyrics for that matter. I don't remember tunes very well and have been told I am tone deaf, but my grandchildren don't seem to mind, they like me singing to them anyway, even if the tune is never the same twice. Margie I really like the idea of singing Psalms to children. I have a problem remembering songs and tunes, that is why I make up my own and why they change every time I sing them. If I tried I could probaby come up with some stories from the tanakh that would be suitable for young children. I could send them to you and you all could proof read them and give suggestions how to improve them if necessary. If someone else could illustrate them (I'm not much good at drawing) we could post them on the children's page on SWW. If the illustrations were outline pictures, then the children could print the story and colour the picture. Others could also submit stories to be posted on the childrens page if they like. Just an idea! What do you all think? Shalom, Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/da8ae979/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 17 01:23:02 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:23:02 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message. In-Reply-To: <85CA7EE888824FDF8EC89BB9F2ADBF83@bettylaptop> References: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN><061520090129.3472.4A35A3F10001231B00000D9022230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net><061620090614.26066.4A3738560009CA74000065D222243323629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <85CA7EE888824FDF8EC89BB9F2ADBF83@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <061720090623.20537.4A388BC500086E630000503922230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Okay Elisheva, I like to keep things simple too. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Glad you liked the site, Eliron?I would be happy to help as I can?but just don?t depend on me for internet literacy! Oops, it is past 2:00am here and I have just gotta get some sleep! Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:15 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Elisheva, I checked out the site, I like it. It would be great if we could put together something like that with folks on these lists as the contributers. I also like the idea of setting up a way for them to dialogue with us. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Hey Eliron, I know this was addressed to Sandra and I definitely want to get her input because she started us off with some great ideas! (Thanks again, Sandra). I think the CD this would be a terrific idea! I thought of another one as well. As I was talking to Kim, last evening and telling her about some of the good suggestions from Sandra and also Margie (and Pat a few weeks ago) regarding the children?s books, stories and songs, having a Children?s Page on the SWW. I was even thinking of perhaps having our children become Pen Pals with one another. I am not sure how it would work, but perhaps we could have a special SWW Children?s Page as Sandra suggested and maybe post pictures of our children and their ages for a start, and see if we could figure out a way to actually include them in our networking. In all the influx of posts, I am not sure if you saw the Aklah link that I posted in one of my emails. I think it is a great link for kids, and adults too to learn more about the weekly parsha?s, festivals, even Israel and the Hebrew language. It is colorful and eye appealing and very ?cutesy,? for those who are drawn to that sort of thing. I personally love it?guess I still have my little girl?s heart! That is probably what drew me into teaching! Anyway, check it out and see what you think. The thing that is missing is the music, but there are lots of other resources. http://www.akhlah.com/ Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:29 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Sandra, Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by the folks on this list? What do ya think? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Children?s songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH?s love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children?s books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children?s page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/8f9f2a1e/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jun 17 02:18:33 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:18:33 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM] Message-ID: <4A3898C9.9070607@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/b57a488d/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Betty K Givin" Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:04:39 -0500 Size: 7874 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/b57a488d/attachment.eml From im50332 at bigpond.net.au Wed Jun 17 04:34:07 2009 From: im50332 at bigpond.net.au (Pamela Barbera) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:34:07 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM References: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> Message-ID: Yes Betty, have and will pray for Kim. Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: Betty K Givin To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:04 PM Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Dear friends, Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after she posted the event regarding praying for our children. But she really is unable to do so. She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and is supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today..the doctor wants her to rest and take it easy for 5 days.a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on line. She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable. She really misses keeping up with all the posts. I told her that I would send a post out to explain. She didn't ask for prayer, but she could really use it! Thanks and love you all, Elisheva/Betty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/5b632a2c/attachment.html From im50332 at bigpond.net.au Wed Jun 17 04:35:52 2009 From: im50332 at bigpond.net.au (Pamela Barbera) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:35:52 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] In my prayers References: Message-ID: <3ABA4B1DE92C4C77A0D83963C3C81FBA@pamelahome> Thank you Catherine, that is lovely to know. toda raba, Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: Catherine Cashmore To: roots Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:13 PM Subject: [Dialogue] In my prayers I wanted you all to know that you are ALL in my prayers each day. I'm having a very busy time at work and haven't been able to post much. However I read everyone's posts each day, and not a day passes where I don't call upon HaShem to look after you all and shade you under his wings, for the peace of Jerusalem, and ever lasting protection for all our children. Love you all. Catherine x ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/c3417368/attachment.html From chcashmore at hotmail.com Wed Jun 17 06:40:49 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:40:49 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Never give up !! - joe - wonderful! Thank you! Message-ID: Joe - I'm badly behind on e mails and have only just read this article. it's WONDERFUL! it speaks mysteries I have struggled with for what seems like an age. Thank you! I promise I'll catch up on everyone's posts soon. I love you all! Catherine xx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/6c9dec8c/attachment.html From chcashmore at hotmail.com Wed Jun 17 07:02:12 2009 From: chcashmore at hotmail.com (Catherine Cashmore) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:02:12 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Message-ID: Betty/Avigail, What truly breathtaking testimonies! I am so glad I read them before bed - it's made my heart flutter at the wonderful Glory of HaShem. Thank you! Laila Tov everyone - I'll continue my marathon e mail catch up tomorrow! All my love. Xx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/81f306d5/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 07:10:08 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:10:08 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message. In-Reply-To: <061720090623.20537.4A388BC500086E630000503922230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN> <061520090129.3472.4A35A3F10001231B00000D9022230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <061620090614.26066.4A3738560009CA74000065D222243323629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <85CA7EE888824FDF8EC89BB9F2ADBF83@bettylaptop> <061720090623.20537.4A388BC500086E630000503922230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <855590370906170510i399503fsc08140e49d93e3a8@mail.gmail.com> Boker tov - You folks have been sending around some really, really good ideas, and there's probably not much that I can add. However, a thought just occurred to me - although many of us have dealt with children (ours, or others) and in some cases, grandchildren, we are *still *fairly removed from that era of being a kid. However, the SWW has the "Next Generation" group composed of tweens and twenties, who may be able to more readily identify what resonates with kids the most, these days. Also, many of them have younger siblings (including some *really* young ones), and could be a great "focus group" and even "test market" for some of these ideas. And, since it's mainly the Beth Lechem group, many of them have been exposed to these ideas, in one form or another for quite a number of years. And what has the community used for *their *children? In my opinion - these are the people that should be consulted, as part of the whole process. Just trying to utilize the most readily identifiable and appropriate resources, that are right at our fingertips... Have a wonderful day - * Hanoch * On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:23 AM, wrote: > Okay Elisheva, I like to keep things simple too. > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : > -------------- > > > > Glad you liked the site, Eliron?I would be happy to help as I can?but just > don?t depend on me for internet literacy! > > > > Oops, it is past 2:00am here and I have just gotta get some sleep! > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of * > carlson_john at bellsouth.net > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:15 AM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with > the Torah Message. > > > > Hey Elisheva, > > > > I checked out the site, I like it. It would be great if we could put > together something like that with folks on these lists as the > contributers. I also like the idea of setting up a way for them to dialogue > with us. > > > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > > -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : > -------------- > > > Hey Eliron, I know this was addressed to Sandra and I definitely want to > get her input because she started us off with some great ideas! (Thanks > again, Sandra). I think the CD this would be a terrific idea! I thought of > another one as well. > > > > As I was talking to Kim, last evening and telling her about some of the > good suggestions from Sandra and also Margie (and Pat a few weeks ago) > regarding the children?s books, stories and songs, having a Children?s Page > on the SWW. I was even thinking of perhaps having our children become Pen > Pals with one another. I am not sure how it would work, but perhaps we > could have a special SWW Children?s Page as Sandra suggested and maybe post > pictures of our children and their ages for a start, and see if we could > figure out a way to actually include them in our networking. In all the > influx of posts, I am not sure if you saw the Aklah link that I posted in > one of my emails. I think it is a great link for kids, and adults too to > learn more about the weekly parsha?s, festivals, even Israel and the Hebrew > language. It is colorful and eye appealing and very ?cutesy,? for those who > are drawn to that sort of thing. I personally love it?guess I still have my > little girl?s heart! That is probably what drew me into teaching! > > > > Anyway, check it out and see what you think. The thing that is missing is > the music, but there are lots of other resources. > > > > http://www.akhlah.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of * > carlson_john at bellsouth.net > *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:29 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah > Message. > > > > Hey Sandra, > > > > Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our > own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by > the folks on this list? > > > > What do ya think? > > > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > > -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" < > sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au>: -------------- > > Children?s songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to > sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH?s love > for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from > birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we > started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest > grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my > own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I > am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then > I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last > couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to > continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my > other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. > > > > Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, > about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing > children?s books about these things might be a good project as they can be > given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. > > > > When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and > Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them > from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They > enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. > > > > You could have a children?s page on SWW with stories, songs and activities > which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. > > > > These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. > > > > Sandra. > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/37b7903e/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Wed Jun 17 07:27:20 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (Margie Creech) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Message-ID: <26672.92588.qm@web58503.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Betty, Please let Kim know she is?in my prayers.? ? Margie? --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Betty K Givin wrote: From: Betty K Givin Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 9:04 PM Dear friends, ? Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after she posted the event regarding praying for our children.? But she really is unable to do so.? She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and is supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today?.the doctor wants her to rest and take it easy for 5 days?a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on line.? She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable.? She really misses keeping up with all the posts.? I told her that I would send a post out to explain.? ? She didn?t ask for prayer, but she could really use it! ? Thanks and love you all, ? Elisheva/Betty ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/3b8440c6/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Wed Jun 17 07:45:42 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:45:42 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM In-Reply-To: References: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <4A38E576.7030200@mts.net> I too am praying for Kim, I am sorry to hear of her affliction. Kim just in case you should read this, take comfort in the fact that Hashem never leaves you. He is in this all. i was over 70, already a couple of years ago, when I thought I was coming to the end of the rope. Health and finances were slipping away. Than i was prompted to read an e-mail not even written to me, and could have easily deleted it, it read : "Stay calm When things don't work out relax. Even if it's all your fault and you deserve everything you're getting, trust in G-d that it will all be good, and stay calm. When He sees how much you trust in Him, He will make it for the good." This was such a consolation to me, and I feel so unworthy the way it has turned out to the good, Baruch Hashem. I have to run along to work. My computer was out for about 3 days. So glad i am back on , praise to Hashem. Cornie patricia robbins wrote: > Yes, we need to pray for Kim! So very sorry to hear about her back > pain. I cannot even imagine how she is managing to keep up with all > she must do. Will continue to pray for her back, and will also pray > that her headache subsides. Please keep us posted, Betty. > > My love to you both, > > Avigail/Pat > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: bkgivin at verizon.net > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:04:39 -0500 > Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM > > Dear friends, > > > > Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially > after she posted the event regarding praying for our children. But > she really is unable to do so. She has been in pain with her back for > over a week now, went to the doctor today and got some pain > medication, muscle relaxer and is supposed to pick up an > anti-inflammatory med today....the doctor wants her to rest and take > it easy for 5 days...a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and having to > work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving that > she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on > line. She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty > miserable. She really misses keeping up with all the posts. I told > her that I would send a post out to explain. > > > > She didn't ask for prayer, but she could really use it! > > > > Thanks and love you all, > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.74/2181 - Release Date: 06/16/09 17:55:00 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/2157134c/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Wed Jun 17 08:08:10 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:08:10 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I get behind ALL the time, Catherine, and I miss a lot on Dialogue. I usually just give up and delete without reading everything - though it's admittedly a painful thing to do! You're terrific!!!! And thank you so much for your prayers for our group. Much love back to you, Avigail/Pat From: chcashmore at hotmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:02:12 +1000 Betty/Avigail, What truly breathtaking testimonies! I am so glad I read them before bed - it's made my heart flutter at the wonderful Glory of HaShem. Thank you! Laila Tov everyone - I'll continue my marathon e mail catch up tomorrow! All my love. Xx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/8e7fd7b7/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Wed Jun 17 08:14:30 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:14:30 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM In-Reply-To: <4A38E576.7030200@mts.net> References: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> <4A38E576.7030200@mts.net> Message-ID: You are such an inspiration, Cornie. I know your encouragement to Kim will help her through this time of pain and worry. I know it has helped me tremendously to read your words this morning. Thank you so much!!! Avigail/Pat Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:45:42 -0500 From: cormary at mts.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM I too am praying for Kim, I am sorry to hear of her affliction. Kim just in case you should read this, take comfort in the fact that Hashem never leaves you. He is in this all. i was over 70, already a couple of years ago, when I thought I was coming to the end of the rope. Health and finances were slipping away. Than i was prompted to read an e-mail not even written to me, and could have easily deleted it, it read : "Stay calm When things don't work out relax. Even if it's all your fault and you deserve everything you're getting, trust in G-d that it will all be good, and stay calm. When He sees how much you trust in Him, He will make it for the good." This was such a consolation to me, and I feel so unworthy the way it has turned out to the good, Baruch Hashem. I have to run along to work. My computer was out for about 3 days. So glad i am back on , praise to Hashem. Cornie patricia robbins wrote: Yes, we need to pray for Kim! So very sorry to hear about her back pain. I cannot even imagine how she is managing to keep up with all she must do. Will continue to pray for her back, and will also pray that her headache subsides. Please keep us posted, Betty. My love to you both, Avigail/Pat From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:04:39 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Dear friends, Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after she posted the event regarding praying for our children. But she really is unable to do so. She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and is supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today?.the doctor wants her to rest and take it easy for 5 days?a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on line. She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable. She really misses keeping up with all the posts. I told her that I would send a post out to explain. She didn?t ask for prayer, but she could really use it! Thanks and love you all, Elisheva/Betty _______________________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.74/2181 - Release Date: 06/16/09 17:55:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/0d272e13/attachment.html From tammyhulon at msn.com Wed Jun 17 10:02:59 2009 From: tammyhulon at msn.com (Tammy Hulon) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:02:59 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message. In-Reply-To: <855590370906170510i399503fsc08140e49d93e3a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN> <061520090129.3472.4A35A3F10001231B00000D9022230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <061620090614.26066.4A3738560009CA74000065D222243323629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <85CA7EE888824FDF8EC89BB9F2ADBF83@bettylaptop> <061720090623.20537.4A388BC500086E630000503922230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <855590370906170510i399503fsc08140e49d93e3a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Boker Tov to You Too, I have been contemplating on when to jump in and what exactly to say. I have been teaching our young children, usually ages 5-12 for the past 13 years in Beth Lechem. Several times I have started trying to put together teachings for such a day as this. Now I see I need to begin to work on it again. My approach will be to design lessons for teachers of small groups of children, mainly ages 5-10. In our congregation, the children ages 10 and up usually move into the adult Torah teaching time. First they have to be well grounded in the facts of the Torah. Two ladies in our congregation, AliYah and AndreYah teach the younger children 1-4. I will speak with them and see if they have ideas. AndreYah and I have previously planned to make a recording of many songs that we have written for the children. Songs are definitely the way to go to teach children. I have a song about the sons of Yaacov which the teens still use when they are trying to remember all the tribes in order of birth. Definitely, one thing I have learned about teaching the children, is to teach the facts straight from Torah. Read the scripture as it written, a couple of verses at a time and then explain. As time goes on, then you can teach them the lessons from the facts. Also, don't think they are too young to learn about the offerings, the clothing of the high priest, the laws of leprosy, all the furniture of the Tabernacle, etc. Don't be too selective on what you teach them, just teach the facts in order of the Torah. Start at the beginning or possibly Abraham. It is amazing what the children at this age are able to retain. I will think more and write again soon. Shalom, Tammy PS-Todah Hanoch!! Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:10:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message. From: youngbarzel at gmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Boker tov - You folks have been sending around some really, really good ideas, and there's probably not much that I can add. However, a thought just occurred to me - although many of us have dealt with children (ours, or others) and in some cases, grandchildren, we are still fairly removed from that era of being a kid. However, the SWW has the "Next Generation" group composed of tweens and twenties, who may be able to more readily identify what resonates with kids the most, these days. Also, many of them have younger siblings (including some really young ones), and could be a great "focus group" and even "test market" for some of these ideas. And, since it's mainly the Beth Lechem group, many of them have been exposed to these ideas, in one form or another for quite a number of years. And what has the community used for their children? In my opinion - these are the people that should be consulted, as part of the whole process. Just trying to utilize the most readily identifiable and appropriate resources, that are right at our fingertips... Have a wonderful day - Hanoch On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:23 AM, wrote: Okay Elisheva, I like to keep things simple too. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Glad you liked the site, Eliron?I would be happy to help as I can?but just don?t depend on me for internet literacy! Oops, it is past 2:00am here and I have just gotta get some sleep! Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:15 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Elisheva, I checked out the site, I like it. It would be great if we could put together something like that with folks on these lists as the contributers. I also like the idea of setting up a way for them to dialogue with us. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Hey Eliron, I know this was addressed to Sandra and I definitely want to get her input because she started us off with some great ideas! (Thanks again, Sandra). I think the CD this would be a terrific idea! I thought of another one as well. As I was talking to Kim, last evening and telling her about some of the good suggestions from Sandra and also Margie (and Pat a few weeks ago) regarding the children?s books, stories and songs, having a Children?s Page on the SWW. I was even thinking of perhaps having our children become Pen Pals with one another. I am not sure how it would work, but perhaps we could have a special SWW Children?s Page as Sandra suggested and maybe post pictures of our children and their ages for a start, and see if we could figure out a way to actually include them in our networking. In all the influx of posts, I am not sure if you saw the Aklah link that I posted in one of my emails. I think it is a great link for kids, and adults too to learn more about the weekly parsha?s, festivals, even Israel and the Hebrew language. It is colorful and eye appealing and very ?cutesy,? for those who are drawn to that sort of thing. I personally love it?guess I still have my little girl?s heart! That is probably what drew me into teaching! Anyway, check it out and see what you think. The thing that is missing is the music, but there are lots of other resources. http://www.akhlah.com/ Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:29 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Sandra, Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by the folks on this list? What do ya think? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Children?s songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH?s love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children?s books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children?s page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. _______________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Bing? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/e397fbd8/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Wed Jun 17 10:14:25 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:14:25 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message. In-Reply-To: References: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN> <061520090129.3472.4A35A3F10001231B00000D9022230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <061620090614.26066.4A3738560009CA74000065D222243323629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <85CA7EE888824FDF8EC89BB9F2ADBF83@bettylaptop> <061720090623.20537.4A388BC500086E630000503922230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <855590370906170510i399503fsc08140e49d93e3a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Excellent advice, Tammy! Am looking forward to hearing all you have to say on this subject. Your group has been doing this for some time with fabulous results, so I, for one, will follow your pattern. My Grandchildren just finished a week of Vacation Bible School and were pumped up the whole week with NOTHING BUT god-man, so will need to gently bring them back to HaShem. So glad you jumped in! Avigail/Pat From: tammyhulon at msn.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org; dsdj7 at aol.com; andreyahjeffcoat at yahoo.com; aliyah32 at windstream.net Subject: RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message. Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:02:59 -0400 CC: Boker Tov to You Too, I have been contemplating on when to jump in and what exactly to say. I have been teaching our young children, usually ages 5-12 for the past 13 years in Beth Lechem. Several times I have started trying to put together teachings for such a day as this. Now I see I need to begin to work on it again. My approach will be to design lessons for teachers of small groups of children, mainly ages 5-10. In our congregation, the children ages 10 and up usually move into the adult Torah teaching time. First they have to be well grounded in the facts of the Torah. Two ladies in our congregation, AliYah and AndreYah teach the younger children 1-4. I will speak with them and see if they have ideas. AndreYah and I have previously planned to make a recording of many songs that we have written for the children. Songs are definitely the way to go to teach children. I have a song about the sons of Yaacov which the teens still use when they are trying to remember all the tribes in order of birth. Definitely, one thing I have learned about teaching the children, is to teach the facts straight from Torah. Read the scripture as it written, a couple of verses at a time and then explain. As time goes on, then you can teach them the lessons from the facts. Also, don't think they are too young to learn about the offerings, the clothing of the high priest, the laws of leprosy, all the furniture of the Tabernacle, etc. Don't be too selective on what you teach them, just teach the facts in order of the Torah. Start at the beginning or possibly Abraham. It is amazing what the children at this age are able to retain. I will think more and write again soon. Shalom, Tammy PS-Todah Hanoch!! Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:10:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message. From: youngbarzel at gmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Boker tov - You folks have been sending around some really, really good ideas, and there's probably not much that I can add. However, a thought just occurred to me - although many of us have dealt with children (ours, or others) and in some cases, grandchildren, we are still fairly removed from that era of being a kid. However, the SWW has the "Next Generation" group composed of tweens and twenties, who may be able to more readily identify what resonates with kids the most, these days. Also, many of them have younger siblings (including some really young ones), and could be a great "focus group" and even "test market" for some of these ideas. And, since it's mainly the Beth Lechem group, many of them have been exposed to these ideas, in one form or another for quite a number of years. And what has the community used for their children? In my opinion - these are the people that should be consulted, as part of the whole process. Just trying to utilize the most readily identifiable and appropriate resources, that are right at our fingertips... Have a wonderful day - Hanoch On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:23 AM, wrote: Okay Elisheva, I like to keep things simple too. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Glad you liked the site, Eliron?I would be happy to help as I can?but just don?t depend on me for internet literacy! Oops, it is past 2:00am here and I have just gotta get some sleep! Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:15 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Elisheva, I checked out the site, I like it. It would be great if we could put together something like that with folks on these lists as the contributers. I also like the idea of setting up a way for them to dialogue with us. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Hey Eliron, I know this was addressed to Sandra and I definitely want to get her input because she started us off with some great ideas! (Thanks again, Sandra). I think the CD this would be a terrific idea! I thought of another one as well. As I was talking to Kim, last evening and telling her about some of the good suggestions from Sandra and also Margie (and Pat a few weeks ago) regarding the children?s books, stories and songs, having a Children?s Page on the SWW. I was even thinking of perhaps having our children become Pen Pals with one another. I am not sure how it would work, but perhaps we could have a special SWW Children?s Page as Sandra suggested and maybe post pictures of our children and their ages for a start, and see if we could figure out a way to actually include them in our networking. In all the influx of posts, I am not sure if you saw the Aklah link that I posted in one of my emails. I think it is a great link for kids, and adults too to learn more about the weekly parsha?s, festivals, even Israel and the Hebrew language. It is colorful and eye appealing and very ?cutesy,? for those who are drawn to that sort of thing. I personally love it?guess I still have my little girl?s heart! That is probably what drew me into teaching! Anyway, check it out and see what you think. The thing that is missing is the music, but there are lots of other resources. http://www.akhlah.com/ Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:29 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Sandra, Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by the folks on this list? What do ya think? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Children?s songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH?s love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children?s books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children?s page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. _______________________________________________ Bing? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/f0e54b78/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 17 10:28:53 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:28:53 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message. In-Reply-To: <855590370906170510i399503fsc08140e49d93e3a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN><061520090129.3472.4A35A3F10001231B00000D9022230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net><061620090614.26066.4A3738560009CA74000065D222243323629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net><85CA7EE888824FDF8EC89BB9F2ADBF83@bettylaptop><061720090623.20537.4A388BC500086E630000503922230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <855590370906170510i399503fsc08140e49d93e3a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <061720091528.14436.4A390BB40004B1B40000386422230647029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Another great idea Hanoch. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- Boker tov - You folks have been sending around some really, really good ideas, and there's probably not much that I can add. However, a thought just occurred to me - although many of us have dealt with children (ours, or others) and in some cases, grandchildren, we are still fairly removed from that era of being a kid. However, the SWW has the "Next Generation" group composed of tweens and twenties, who may be able to more readily identify what resonates with kids the most, these days. Also, many of them have younger siblings (including some really young ones), and could be a great "focus group" and even "test market" for some of these ideas. And, since it's mainly the Beth Lechem group, many of them have been exposed to these ideas, in one form or another for quite a number of years. And what has the community used for their children? In my opinion - these are the people that should be consulted, as part of the whole process. Just trying to utilize the most readily identifiable and appropriate resources, that are right at our fingertips... Have a wonderful day - Hanoch On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:23 AM, wrote: Okay Elisheva, I like to keep things simple too. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Glad you liked the site, Eliron?I would be happy to help as I can?but just don?t depend on me for internet literacy! Oops, it is past 2:00am here and I have just gotta get some sleep! Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:15 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Elisheva, I checked out the site, I like it. It would be great if we could put together something like that with folks on these lists as the contributers. I also like the idea of setting up a way for them to dialogue with us. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Hey Eliron, I know this was addressed to Sandra and I definitely want to get her input because she started us off with some great ideas! (Thanks again, Sandra). I think the CD this would be a terrific idea! I thought of another one as well. As I was talking to Kim, last evening and telling her about some of the good suggestions from Sandra and also Margie (and Pat a few weeks ago) regarding the children?s books, stories and songs, having a Children?s Page on the SWW. I was even thinking of perhaps having our children become Pen Pals with one another. I am not sure how it would work, but perhaps we could have a special SWW Children?s Page as Sandra suggested and maybe post pictures of our children and their ages for a start, and see if we could figure out a way to actually include them in our networking. In all the influx of posts, I am not sure if you saw the Aklah link that I posted in one of my emails. I think it is a great link for kids, and adults too to learn more about the weekly parsha?s, festivals, even Israel and the Hebrew language. It is colorful and eye appealing and very ?cutesy,? for those who are drawn to that sort of thing. I personally love it?guess I still have my little girl?s heart! That is probably what drew me into teaching! Anyway, check it out and see what you think. The thing that is missing is the music, but there are lots of other resources. http://www.akhlah.com/ Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:29 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Sandra, Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by the folks on this list? What do ya think? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Children?s songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH?s love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children?s books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children?s page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/38294fa9/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 17 10:33:35 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:33:35 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message. In-Reply-To: References: <725778C908ED47438A4D05F47C0258BC@SPLITPIN><061520090129.3472.4A35A3F10001231B00000D9022230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net><061620090614.26066.4A3738560009CA74000065D222243323629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net><85CA7EE888824FDF8EC89BB9F2ADBF83@bettylaptop><061720090623.20537.4A388BC500086E630000503922230703629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net><855590370906170510i399503fsc08140e49d93e3a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <061720091533.26272.4A390CCD000B7B03000066A022230647029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Got it Tammy, we'll pull all of this stuff together soon. Maybe we can all get a start on this during the Sukkote gathering. Thanks for jumping in here. Shalom. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Tammy Hulon : -------------- Boker Tov to You Too, I have been contemplating on when to jump in and what exactly to say. I have been teaching our young children, usually ages 5-12 for the past 13 years in Beth Lechem. Several times I have started trying to put together teachings for such a day as this. Now I see I need to begin to work on it again. My approach will be to design lessons for teachers of small groups of children, mainly ages 5-10. In our congregation, the children ages 10 and up usually move into the adult Torah teaching time. First they have to be well grounded in the facts of the Torah. Two ladies in our congregation, AliYah and AndreYah teach the younger children 1-4. I will speak with them and see if they have ideas. AndreYah and I have previously planned to make a recording of many songs that we have written for the children. Songs are definitely the way to go to teach children. I have a song about the sons of Yaacov which the teens still use when they are trying to remember all the tribes in order of birth. Definitely, one thing I have learned about teaching the children, is to teach the facts straight from Torah. Read the scripture as it written, a couple of verses at a time and then explain. As time goes on, then you can teach them the lessons from the facts. Also, don't think they are too young to learn about the offerings, the clothing of the high priest, the laws of leprosy, all the furniture of the Tabernacle, etc. Don't be too selective on what you teach them, just teach the facts in order of the Torah. Start at the beginning or possibly Abraham. It is amazing what the children at this age are able to retain. I will think more and write again soon. Shalom, Tammy PS-Todah Hanoch!! Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:10:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message. From: youngbarzel at gmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Boker tov - You folks have been sending around some really, really good ideas, and there's probably not much that I can add. However, a thought just occurred to me - although many of us have dealt with children (ours, or others) and in some cases, grandchildren, we are still fairly removed from that era of being a kid. However, the SWW has the "Next Generation" group composed of tweens and twenties, who may be able to more readily identify what resonates with kids the most, these days. Also, many of them have younger siblings (including some really young ones), and could be a great "focus group" and even "test market" for some of these ideas. And, since it's mainly the Beth Lechem group, many of them have been exposed to these ideas, in one form or another for quite a number of years. And what has the community used for their children? In my opinion - these are the people that should be consulted, as part of the whole process. Just trying to utilize the most readily identifiable and appropriate resources, that are right at our fingertips... Have a wonderful day - Hanoch On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:23 AM, wrote: Okay Elisheva, I like to keep things simple too. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Glad you liked the site, Eliron?I would be happy to help as I can?but just don?t depend on me for internet literacy! Oops, it is past 2:00am here and I have just gotta get some sleep! Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:15 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Elisheva, I checked out the site, I like it. It would be great if we could put together something like that with folks on these lists as the contributers. I also like the idea of setting up a way for them to dialogue with us. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Hey Eliron, I know this was addressed to Sandra and I definitely want to get her input because she started us off with some great ideas! (Thanks again, Sandra). I think the CD this would be a terrific idea! I thought of another one as well. As I was talking to Kim, last evening and telling her about some of the good suggestions from Sandra and also Margie (and Pat a few weeks ago) regarding the children?s books, stories and songs, having a Children?s Page on the SWW. I was even thinking of perhaps having our children become Pen Pals with one another. I am not sure how it would work, but perhaps we could have a special SWW Children?s Page as Sandra suggested and maybe post pictures of our children and their ages for a start, and see if we could figure out a way to actually include them in our networking. In all the influx of posts, I am not sure if you saw the Aklah link that I posted in one of my emails. I think it is a great link for kids, and adults too to learn more about the weekly parsha?s, festivals, even Israel and the Hebrew language. It is colorful and eye appealing and very ?cutesy,? for those who are drawn to that sort of thing. I personally love it?guess I still have my little girl?s heart! That is probably what drew me into teaching! Anyway, check it out and see what you think. The thing that is missing is the music, but there are lots of other resources. http://www.akhlah.com/ Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:29 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Sandra, Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by the folks on this list? What do ya think? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Children?s songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH?s love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children?s books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children?s page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. _______________________________________________ Bing? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/b0ebcb11/attachment.html From sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au Wed Jun 17 10:39:31 2009 From: sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au (Sandra Inglis) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:39:31 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] Re APOLOGIES FROM KIM Message-ID: <1227DC0D4F60441EB5958A1E7833F47D@SPLITPIN> Shalom Elisheva, I am sorry to hear that Kim is in so much pain. I pray that YeHoWaH will heal her and she will be feeling better real soon. Sandra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/bdd7901a/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Wed Jun 17 12:14:15 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:14:15 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM In-Reply-To: References: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> <4A38E576.7030200@mts.net> Message-ID: <232BE246864345E3B00745BBA5E3FD72@bettylaptop> Thanks everyone for your prayers for Kim. I will let her know when I talk to her. Cornie, the quote you put in your email below speaks volumes, not just to Kim and her situation, but to Roger and me and to so many others who are trying to find jobs.staying calm and trusting HaShem are essential.else we lose it completely! Love and appreciate you all. Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:15 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM You are such an inspiration, Cornie. I know your encouragement to Kim will help her through this time of pain and worry. I know it has helped me tremendously to read your words this morning. Thank you so much!!! Avigail/Pat _____ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:45:42 -0500 From: cormary at mts.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM I too am praying for Kim, I am sorry to hear of her affliction. Kim just in case you should read this, take comfort in the fact that Hashem never leaves you. He is in this all. i was over 70, already a couple of years ago, when I thought I was coming to the end of the rope. Health and finances were slipping away. Than i was prompted to read an e-mail not even written to me, and could have easily deleted it, it read : "Stay calm When things don't work out relax. Even if it's all your fault and you deserve everything you're getting, trust in G-d that it will all be good, and stay calm. When He sees how much you trust in Him, He will make it for the good." This was such a consolation to me, and I feel so unworthy the way it has turned out to the good, Baruch Hashem. I have to run along to work. My computer was out for about 3 days. So glad i am back on , praise to Hashem. Cornie patricia robbins wrote: Yes, we need to pray for Kim! So very sorry to hear about her back pain. I cannot even imagine how she is managing to keep up with all she must do. Will continue to pray for her back, and will also pray that her headache subsides. Please keep us posted, Betty. My love to you both, Avigail/Pat _____ From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:04:39 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Dear friends, Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after she posted the event regarding praying for our children. But she really is unable to do so. She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and is supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today..the doctor wants her to rest and take it easy for 5 days.a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on line. She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable. She really misses keeping up with all the posts. I told her that I would send a post out to explain. She didn't ask for prayer, but she could really use it! Thanks and love you all, Elisheva/Betty _____ _______________________________________________ _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.74/2181 - Release Date: 06/16/09 17:55:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/4994b4ba/attachment.html From ptyler at aac-usa.com Wed Jun 17 13:50:20 2009 From: ptyler at aac-usa.com (ptyler at aac-usa.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM In-Reply-To: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> References: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <49914.192.117.30.185.1245264620.squirrel@www.aac-usa.com> Shalom Elisheva! Please tell Kim that we are praying for her from Jerusalem. Love, Patty > Dear friends, > > > > Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after > she > posted the event regarding praying for our children. But she really is > unable to do so. She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, > went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and > is > supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today..the doctor wants her > to > rest and take it easy for 5 days.a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and > having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving > that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on > line. She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable. > She > really misses keeping up with all the posts. I told her that I would send > a > post out to explain. > > > > She didn't ask for prayer, but she could really use it! > > > > Thanks and love you all, > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > > _______________________________________________ > From mhyde7 at tds.net Wed Jun 17 15:55:18 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:55:18 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] FW: Congressman J. Randy Forbes (R-VA) has introduced H.Res. 397 Message-ID: A friend sent this, thought it might be of interest. Back in April, while making a stop in Turkey during one of his World Apology Tours, President Obama remarked that we Americans "do not consider ourselves a Christian nation, or a Muslim nation, but rather, a nation of citizens who are, uh, bound by a set of values." This was not the first time Barack Obama has denied America's Christian heritage, nor is President Obama the first leftist to do so. Civil libertarians (ACLU, Americans United for Separation of Church and State) routinely deny the prominent role Christianity played during our founding and throughout our history. Playing down our Christian heritage helps them advance the myth of separation of church and state, as civil libertarians routinely comb the countryside looking for vestiges of Christianity to declare unconstitutional and scrub clean. In response, Congressman J. Randy Forbes (R-VA) has introduced H.Res. 397, which affirms our Christian heritage. The bill contains considerable documentation on the importance Christianity has played in our development as a nation. It would also establish the first week of May as America's Spiritual Heritage Week. Here are few excerpts from the text of H.Res. 397: Political scientists have documented that the most frequently cited source in the political period known as The Founding Era was the Bible. The first act of America's first Congress in 1774 was to ask a minister to open with prayer and to lead Congress in the reading of 4 chapters of the Bible. Congress regularly attended church and Divine service together en masse. Throughout the American Founding, Congress frequently appropriated money for missionaries and for religious instruction, a practice that Congress repeated for decades after the passage of the Constitution and the First Amendment. In 1776, Congress approved the Declaration of Independence with its 4 direct religious acknowledgments referring to God as the Creator, the Lawgiver, the Judge, and the Protector. Upon approving the Declaration of Independence, John Adams declared that the Fourth of July "ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty." Four days after approving the Declaration, the Liberty Bell was rung. The Liberty Bell was named for the Biblical inscription from Leviticus 25:10 emblazoned around it: "Proclaim liberty throughout the land, to all the inhabitants thereof." In 1777, Congress, facing a National shortage of "Bibles for our schools, and families, and for the public worship of God in our churches," announced that they "desired to have a Bible printed under their care & by their encouragement" and therefore ordered 20,000 copies of the Bible to be imported "into the different ports of the States of the Union." In 1782, Congress pursued a plan to print a Bible that would be "a neat edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools" and therefore approved the production of the first English language Bible printed in America that contained the congressional endorsement that "the United States in Congress assembled.recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States." Also in 1782, Congress adopted (and has reaffirmed on numerous subsequent occasions) the National Seal with its Latin motto "Annuit Coeptis," meaning "God has favored our undertakings," along with the eye of Providence in a triangle over a pyramid. The eye and the motto "allude to the many signal interpositions of Providence in favor of the American cause." The 1783 Treaty of Paris that officially ended the Revolution and established America as an independent nation begins with the appellation "In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity." In 1787, at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, Benjamin Franklin declared, "God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? . Without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel." The delegates to the Constitutional Convention concluded their work by in effect placing a religious punctuation mark at the end of the Constitution in the Attestation Clause, noting not only that they had completed the work with "the unanimous consent of the States present" but they had done so "in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven." James Madison declared that he saw the finished Constitution as a product of "the finger of that Almighty Hand which has been so frequently and signally extended to our relief in the critical stages of the Revolution." George Washington viewed it as "little short of a miracle." Benjamin Franklin believed that its writing had been "influenced, guided, and governed by that omnipotent, omnipresent, and beneficent Ruler, in Whom all inferior spirits live, and move, and have their being." >From 1787 to 1788, State conventions to ratify the United States Constitution not only began with prayer but even met in church buildings. In 1795, during construction of the Capitol, a practice was instituted whereby "public worship is now regularly administered at the Capitol, every Sunday morning, at 11 o'clock." In 1789, the first U.S. Congress, the Congress that framed the Bill of Rights (including the First Amendment), appropriated federal funds to pay chaplains to pray at the opening of all sessions, a practice that has continued to this day, with Congress not only funding its congressional chaplains but also the salaries and operations of more than 4,500 military chaplains. In 1789, Congress, in the midst of framing the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment, passed the first federal law regarding education, declaring that "Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged." In 1789, on the same day that Congress finished drafting the First Amendment, it requested President Washington to declare a national day of prayer and thanksgiving, resulting in the first federal official Thanksgiving proclamation that declared "it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor." These are just a smattering of the examples set forth in H.Res. 397 that attest to our Christian heritage. To proclaim otherwise is to simply ignore the history of the United States, and to deny the hand of Divine Providence that has enabled us to blossom into the freest, wealthiest, and most generous collection of individuals ever to exist. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/ebe0cf4f/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Wed Jun 17 16:09:22 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:09:22 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Settling the land Message-ID: Hanoch Attached is an Interesting article on settling the land of Israel. If we were only teenagers again... knowing what we know now! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/2b051926/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Settling the Land of Israel.doc Type: application/msword Size: 71168 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/2b051926/attachment.doc From bkgivin at verizon.net Wed Jun 17 12:17:54 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:17:54 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue]Testimonies 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11EFFE8FDABB492BA3F9F9716CF7B99C@bettylaptop> And I get behind too! But thank you Catherine. I am glad your got something out of our testimonies.there seems to be a common thread amongst many of us who came out of Christianity.same theme, just a different twist. Thank you for your prayers always, Love, Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:08 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' I get behind ALL the time, Catherine, and I miss a lot on Dialogue. I usually just give up and delete without reading everything - though it's admittedly a painful thing to do! You're terrific!!!! And thank you so much for your prayers for our group. Much love back to you, Avigail/Pat _____ From: chcashmore at hotmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] 'Ulster: Israeli Flag Combined with Ulster Banner' Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:02:12 +1000 Betty/Avigail, What truly breathtaking testimonies! I am so glad I read them before bed - it's made my heart flutter at the wonderful Glory of HaShem. Thank you! Laila Tov everyone - I'll continue my marathon e mail catch up tomorrow! All my love. Xx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/2d43cc09/attachment.html From im50332 at bigpond.net.au Wed Jun 17 18:48:57 2009 From: im50332 at bigpond.net.au (Pamela Barbera) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:48:57 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM References: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> <4A38E576.7030200@mts.net> Message-ID: Thanks Cornie, appreciate you sharing this, Kol Tov, Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: Cornie Reimer To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM I too am praying for Kim, I am sorry to hear of her affliction. Kim just in case you should read this, take comfort in the fact that Hashem never leaves you. He is in this all. i was over 70, already a couple of years ago, when I thought I was coming to the end of the rope. Health and finances were slipping away. Than i was prompted to read an e-mail not even written to me, and could have easily deleted it, it read : "Stay calm When things don't work out relax. Even if it's all your fault and you deserve everything you're getting, trust in G-d that it will all be good, and stay calm. When He sees how much you trust in Him, He will make it for the good." This was such a consolation to me, and I feel so unworthy the way it has turned out to the good, Baruch Hashem. I have to run along to work. My computer was out for about 3 days. So glad i am back on , praise to Hashem. Cornie patricia robbins wrote: Yes, we need to pray for Kim! So very sorry to hear about her back pain. I cannot even imagine how she is managing to keep up with all she must do. Will continue to pray for her back, and will also pray that her headache subsides. Please keep us posted, Betty. My love to you both, Avigail/Pat ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:04:39 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Dear friends, Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after she posted the event regarding praying for our children. But she really is unable to do so. She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and is supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today..the doctor wants her to rest and take it easy for 5 days.a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on line. She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable. She really misses keeping up with all the posts. I told her that I would send a post out to explain. She didn't ask for prayer, but she could really use it! Thanks and love you all, Elisheva/Betty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.74/2181 - Release Date: 06/16/09 17:55:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/cacb991d/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jun 17 20:09:06 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:09:06 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message.] Message-ID: <4A3993B2.8050203@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/4b26655d/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Tammy Hulon Subject: RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message. Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:02:59 -0400 Size: 31910 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/4b26655d/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Wed Jun 17 20:34:53 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:34:53 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message.] Message-ID: <4A3999BD.5030208@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/19588971/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 17 22:00:55 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 03:00:55 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Settling the land In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <061820090300.18626.4A39ADE70001FE9A000048C222230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Yes, this could develop into something very interesting. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "mhyde" : -------------- Hanoch Attached is an Interesting article on settling the land of Israel. If we were only teenagers again?.. knowing what we know now! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/ba7b1d22/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 17 22:04:48 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 03:04:48 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] In-Reply-To: <4A3993B2.8050203@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <061820090304.23341.4A39AED00001521900005B2D22230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Thanks Joe. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shalom Tammy , first of all welcome to the dialogue and for your thoughts on this very important subject. Hanoch and others have already added some very good imput as well. Thank you all for some very good ideas. I cannot improve on these preliminary ideas. However I would like to add some gems from the Jewish Sages that will, b'Ezrat HaShem, give you all inspiration. Tammy you are so correct when you say that children are capable of retaining much knowledge. Rabbinic Sayings : "The children (Banim) are builders (Bonim) ; they not only build the future of the family but likewise of the community." (Ber.64) "He who rears his children in the Torah is among those who enjoy the fruit in this world while the capital remains for him in the world to come." ( Shab. 127a) "Whoever has a son labouring in the Torah is as though he never dies." (Gen. R. 49.4) "Whoever teaches his son Torah, Scripture imputes it to him as though he had received it from Mount Horeb ; as it is said, "Thou shalt make them known to thy children and thy children's children" (Deut.4.9),and it continues, "The day that thou stoodest before the Lord thy G-d in Horeb. (Deut4.10) - (Ber. 21b ) "If you acquired knowledge, what do you lack ? If you lack knowledge, what have you acquired?" (Lev.R.1.6) "Touch not Mine anointed and do My prophets no harm " ( 1 Chron. 16. 22 ) - "Mine anointed" are the schoolchildren, "My prophets" are the scholars. The world only exists through the breath of schoolchildren. We may not suspend the instruction of children even for the rebuilding of the Temple. A city in which there are no schoolchildren will suffer destruction " ( Shab. 119b ) "No philosophers have arisen in the world like Balaam, the son of Beor and Oenomaos of Gadara. All the heathen assembled to the latter and said to him, ' Tell us how we may successfully contend against the people of Israel.' He answered , ' Go to their Synagogues and schools, and if you hear there the clamour of children rehearsing their lessons, you cannot prevail against them ; for so their patriarch, Issac assured them saying, ' The voice is the voice of Yaacov and the hands are the hands of Esav (Gen. 27.22), meaning that when Yaacov's voice is heard in the Houses of Assembly, the hands of Esav are powerless' " (Gen. R. 65.20 ) "Be careful of the children of the poor, since the Torah issues from them." ( Ned. 81a ) "There are four qualities among the students, the sponge, the funnel, the strainer and the seive, the sponge sucks everything up; the funnel, lets in at one end and out the other end ; the strainer, lets the wine pass out and retains the lees ; and the seive, which lets out the bran and retains the fine flour." (Avot 5. 18 ) Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/e3a1fe59/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Wed Jun 17 22:14:56 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:14:56 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message.] In-Reply-To: <4A3993B2.8050203@westnet.com.au> References: <4A3993B2.8050203@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Thank you, Joe! Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:09:06 +1000 From: jid at westnet.com.au To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message.] Shalom Tammy , first of all welcome to the dialogue and for your thoughts on this very important subject. Hanoch and others have already added some very good imput as well. Thank you all for some very good ideas. I cannot improve on these preliminary ideas. However I would like to add some gems from the Jewish Sages that will, b'Ezrat HaShem, give you all inspiration. Tammy you are so correct when you say that children are capable of retaining much knowledge. Rabbinic Sayings : "The children (Banim) are builders (Bonim) ; they not only build the future of the family but likewise of the community." (Ber.64) "He who rears his children in the Torah is among those who enjoy the fruit in this world while the capital remains for him in the world to come." ( Shab. 127a) "Whoever has a son labouring in the Torah is as though he never dies." (Gen. R. 49.4) "Whoever teaches his son Torah, Scripture imputes it to him as though he had received it from Mount Horeb ; as it is said, "Thou shalt make them known to thy children and thy children's children" (Deut.4.9),and it continues, "The day that thou stoodest before the Lord thy G-d in Horeb. (Deut4.10) - (Ber. 21b ) "If you acquired knowledge, what do you lack ? If you lack knowledge, what have you acquired?" (Lev.R.1.6) "Touch not Mine anointed and do My prophets no harm " ( 1 Chron. 16. 22 ) - "Mine anointed" are the schoolchildren, "My prophets" are the scholars. The world only exists through the breath of schoolchildren. We may not suspend the instruction of children even for the rebuilding of the Temple. A city in which there are no schoolchildren will suffer destruction " ( Shab. 119b ) "No philosophers have arisen in the world like Balaam, the son of Beor and Oenomaos of Gadara. All the heathen assembled to the latter and said to him, ' Tell us how we may successfully contend against the people of Israel.' He answered , ' Go to their Synagogues and schools, and if you hear there the clamour of children rehearsing their lessons, you cannot prevail against them ; for so their patriarch, Issac assured them saying, ' The voice is the voice of Yaacov and the hands are the hands of Esav (Gen. 27.22), meaning that when Yaacov's voice is heard in the Houses of Assembly, the hands of Esav are powerless' " (Gen. R. 65.20 ) "Be careful of the children of the poor, since the Torah issues from them." ( Ned. 81a ) "There are four qualities among the students, the sponge, the funnel, the strainer and the seive, the sponge sucks everything up; the funnel, lets in at one end and out the other end ; the strainer, lets the wine pass out and retains the lees ; and the seive, which lets out the bran and retains the fine flour." (Avot 5. 18 ) Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: tammyhulon at msn.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org; dsdj7 at aol.com; andreyahjeffcoat at yahoo.com; aliyah32 at windstream.net Subject: RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message. Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:02:59 -0400 CC: Boker Tov to You Too, I have been contemplating on when to jump in and what exactly to say. I have been teaching our young children, usually ages 5-12 for the past 13 years in Beth Lechem. Several times I have started trying to put together teachings for such a day as this. Now I see I need to begin to work on it again. My approach will be to design lessons for teachers of small groups of children, mainly ages 5-10. In our congregation, the children ages 10 and up usually move into the adult Torah teaching time. First they have to be well grounded in the facts of the Torah. Two ladies in our congregation, AliYah and AndreYah teach the younger children 1-4. I will speak with them and see if they have ideas. AndreYah and I have previously planned to make a recording of many songs that we have written for the children. Songs are definitely the way to go to teach children. I have a song about the sons of Yaacov which the teens still use when they are trying to remember all the tribes in order of birth. Definitely, one thing I have learned about teaching the children, is to teach the facts straight from Torah. Read the scripture as it written, a couple of verses at a time and then explain. As time goes on, then you can teach them the lessons from the facts. Also, don't think they are too young to learn about the offerings, the clothing of the high priest, the laws of leprosy, all the furniture of the Tabernacle, etc. Don't be too selective on what you teach them, just teach the facts in order of the Torah. Start at the beginning or possibly Abraham. It is amazing what the children at this age are able to retain. I will think more and write again soon. Shalom, Tammy PS-Todah Hanoch!! Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:10:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message. From: youngbarzel at gmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Boker tov - You folks have been sending around some really, really good ideas, and there's probably not much that I can add. However, a thought just occurred to me - although many of us have dealt with children (ours, or others) and in some cases, grandchildren, we are still fairly removed from that era of being a kid. However, the SWW has the "Next Generation" group composed of tweens and twenties, who may be able to more readily identify what resonates with kids the most, these days. Also, many of them have younger siblings (including some really young ones), and could be a great "focus group" and even "test market" for some of these ideas. And, since it's mainly the Beth Lechem group, many of them have been exposed to these ideas, in one form or another for quite a number of years. And what has the community used for their children? In my opinion - these are the people that should be consulted, as part of the whole process. Just trying to utilize the most readily identifiable and appropriate resources, that are right at our fingertips... Have a wonderful day - Hanoch On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:23 AM, wrote: Okay Elisheva, I like to keep things simple too. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Glad you liked the site, Eliron?I would be happy to help as I can?but just don?t depend on me for internet literacy! Oops, it is past 2:00am here and I have just gotta get some sleep! Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:15 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Elisheva, I checked out the site, I like it. It would be great if we could put together something like that with folks on these lists as the contributers. I also like the idea of setting up a way for them to dialogue with us. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : -------------- Hey Eliron, I know this was addressed to Sandra and I definitely want to get her input because she started us off with some great ideas! (Thanks again, Sandra). I think the CD this would be a terrific idea! I thought of another one as well. As I was talking to Kim, last evening and telling her about some of the good suggestions from Sandra and also Margie (and Pat a few weeks ago) regarding the children?s books, stories and songs, having a Children?s Page on the SWW. I was even thinking of perhaps having our children become Pen Pals with one another. I am not sure how it would work, but perhaps we could have a special SWW Children?s Page as Sandra suggested and maybe post pictures of our children and their ages for a start, and see if we could figure out a way to actually include them in our networking. In all the influx of posts, I am not sure if you saw the Aklah link that I posted in one of my emails. I think it is a great link for kids, and adults too to learn more about the weekly parsha?s, festivals, even Israel and the Hebrew language. It is colorful and eye appealing and very ?cutesy,? for those who are drawn to that sort of thing. I personally love it?guess I still have my little girl?s heart! That is probably what drew me into teaching! Anyway, check it out and see what you think. The thing that is missing is the music, but there are lots of other resources. http://www.akhlah.com/ Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of carlson_john at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:29 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah Message. Hey Sandra, Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by the folks on this list? What do ya think? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" : -------------- Children?s songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH?s love for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing children?s books about these things might be a good project as they can be given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. You could have a children?s page on SWW with stories, songs and activities which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. Sandra. _______________________________________________ Bing? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090617/695da320/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 18 01:14:42 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:14:42 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] In-Reply-To: <4A3999BD.5030208@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <061820090614.4603.4A39DB520005C85D000011FB22230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Wow, it's soooo disturbing to see this from the perspective I hold now. But I have to tell you, that pastor and his followers absolutely believe that what they are doing is an act of love. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending their actions, only saying that there is no malicious intent there, just ignorent good intentions. They honestly believe G-d brought that boy to them. This is why I have such an aversion to evangelism. They attracted this child to them and think he came of his own accord. We have to be careful lest we become them, I think. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shalom Chaverim, this is what we are up against !!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70gmYw0LdQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.esavexposed.blogspot.com%2F&feature=player_embedded Hanoch, please watch your blood pressure !! I hope this exposes the rues of the world of sheker / lies and gives you the appropriate ammunition in your arsenal of prayer weaponry. Blessed are the children. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/43c2f3fe/attachment.html From j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 18 04:19:25 2009 From: j.h.lusk234 at sbcglobal.net (Helen Lusk) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 02:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM In-Reply-To: <232BE246864345E3B00745BBA5E3FD72@bettylaptop> References: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> <4A38E576.7030200@mts.net> <232BE246864345E3B00745BBA5E3FD72@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <594706.37598.qm@web82504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am also praying for Kim and her back condition and headaches. May she get enough rest and sleep to renew and heal her and may Hashem answer all our prayers on her behalf. Shalom and kind regards, Helen ________________________________ From: Betty K Givin To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:14:15 PM Subject: RE: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Thanks everyone for your prayers for Kim.? I will let her know when I talk to her. ? Cornie, the quote you put in your email below speaks volumes, not just to Kim and her situation, but to Roger and me and to so many others who are trying to find jobs?staying calm and trusting HaShem are essential?else we lose it completely! ? Love and appreciate you all. ? Elisheva/Betty ? ________________________________ From:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:15 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM ? You are such an inspiration, Cornie.?I know your encouragement to Kim will help?her through this time of pain and worry.? I know it has helped me tremendously to read your words?this morning.? Thank you so much!!! ? Avigail/Pat?? ? ________________________________ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:45:42 -0500 From: cormary at mts.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM I too am praying for Kim, I am sorry to hear of her affliction. Kim just in case you should read this, take comfort in the fact that Hashem never leaves you. He is in this all. i was over 70, already a couple of years ago, when I thought I was coming to the end of the rope. Health and finances were slipping away. Than i was prompted to read an e-mail not even written to me, and could have easily deleted it, it read : "Stay calm When things don't work out relax. Even if it's all your fault and you deserve everything you're getting, trust in G-d that it will all be good, and stay calm. When He sees how much you trust in Him, He will make it for the good." This was such a consolation to me, and I feel so unworthy the way it has turned out to the good, Baruch Hashem. I have to run along to work. My computer was out for about 3 days. So glad i am back on , praise to Hashem. Cornie patricia robbins wrote: Yes, we need to pray for Kim!? So very sorry to hear about her back pain.? I cannot even imagine how she is managing to keep up with all she must do.? Will continue to pray for her back, and will also pray that her headache subsides.? Please keep us posted, Betty. ? My love to you both, ? Avigail/Pat ________________________________ From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:04:39 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Dear friends, ? Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after she posted the event regarding praying for our children.? But she really is unable to do so.? She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and is supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today?.the doctor wants her to rest and take it easy for 5 days?a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on line.? She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable.? She really misses keeping up with all the posts.? I told her that I would send a post out to explain.? ? She didn?t ask for prayer, but she could really use it! ? Thanks and love you all, ? Elisheva/Betty ? ________________________________ ? _______________________________________________ ? ________________________________ ? ? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.74/2181 - Release Date: 06/16/09 17:55:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/74901f25/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jun 18 05:54:10 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:54:10 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.]] Message-ID: <4A3A1CD2.4030201@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/10c50fe6/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:14:42 +0000 Size: 7194 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/10c50fe6/attachment.eml From beartrm at yahoo.com Thu Jun 18 06:37:11 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 04:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.]] Message-ID: <575695.47603.qm@web33305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Very well stated Joe.? Thanks for your input. Shalom,? Susan --- On Thu, 6/18/09, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: From: JOE INDOMENICO Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.]] To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:54 AM Shalom Eliron, very good observation and a timely reminder. What a mess when everyone thinks that they have the truth. I would rather be foolish amongst the good rather than good amongst the fools. The truth is sometimes the hardest thing to hold onto....... ask the Jews. What makes this scandalous is the preying on the defenseless youth and might I add ,the lonely and vulnerable elderly are not immune from the evangelical onslaught. This is another trait of Amalek the grandson of Esau. The episode of Refadim when Am Israel where in the wilderness comes to mind. "Refidim" comes from the Hebrew word for slackness. "They loosened their grip on the Torah" In Refidim, Israel questioned HaShem's presence amongst them. The Midrash liken's them to a child whose father carried him on his shoulders and fulfilled his every request. Then the child asked a passerby, "Have you seen my father?" Annoyed , the father said, "Don't you know where I am ?" He cast his son to the ground where he was bitten by a dog. So, too after all the miracles and salvations, Israel had the gall to wonder if HaShem was with them - so He cast them off, leaving them vulnerable to attack. (Rashi) As long as Israel were diligent in their Torah observance , Amalek had no dominion over them, but as soon as their study became lax, they were in danger from Amalek. Or HaChaim explains that this is why Moshe chose Yehoshua to lead the battle. Yehoshua was not only his disciple, but the Torah testifies of him that he never left the tent, a word that symbolizes the house of Study. So, the point that I am trying to make is that if we instill the fundamental principles of the Torah into our children , then we need not fear the "good intentions of well meaning people" The basis of our education towards our children must be established on the Divine principle of relationship. Once that relationship is established through bridges of trust and respect, then and only then, can we start the fastidious? construction of the elements of truth. The foundation of love is the most stable building site for the beams of truth to be erected. Only insecurity is the breeding ground for forced conversion. Those established in truth never fear the intimidation of falsehood. The truth stands on its own with nothing capable of intimidating it. I say, know the Rock from where you where hewn. 'Why does the word for "falsehood"- sheker consist of three consecutive letters of the Hebrew alphabet, whilst the word for "truth" - emet consists of letters taken from the beginning, middle and end of the Hebrew alphabet?. Because falsehood is common, truth uncommon. Why does the word for falsehood rest on one point while the word for truth has a firm foundation ( alluding to the shape of the letters). To teach that truth stands but falsehood does not stand.' ( Shab. 104a ) Start the rock cutting from the quarry of life, shape and hone the children. Remember, all the shaping is done in the quarry. Once the stones arrive at HaShem's Holy Mountain, no human instrument is to touch these. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/8b945a69/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Thu Jun 18 06:47:52 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 04:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Message-ID: <927422.5486.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Elisheva,? Please tell Kim my prayers are with her.??I so understand the her battle with pain.? I have a condition called syringomyelia and have dealt eith pain for nearly 10 years now.? Throiugh it all I have learned that HaShem truly never gives us more than we can bear but uses these times ?to show us how much we need Him.? In my life I have drawn ever closer to Him beacause of this condtion.??I will truly be praying that Jehovah Rapha heal her from the pain and through it all show her His awesome love. ? Shalom,? Susan ??? ? --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Helen Lusk wrote: From: Helen Lusk Subject: Re: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 4:19 AM I am also praying for Kim and her back condition and headaches. May she get enough rest and sleep to renew and heal her and may Hashem answer all our prayers on her behalf. ? Shalom and kind regards, ? Helen From: Betty K Givin To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:14:15 PM Subject: RE: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Thanks everyone for your prayers for Kim.? I will let her know when I talk to her. ? Cornie, the quote you put in your email below speaks volumes, not just to Kim and her situation, but to Roger and me and to so many others who are trying to find jobs?staying calm and trusting HaShem are essential?else we lose it completely! ? Love and appreciate you all. ? Elisheva/Betty ? From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:15 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM ? You are such an inspiration, Cornie.?I know your encouragement to Kim will help?her through this time of pain and worry.? I know it has helped me tremendously to read your words?this morning.? Thank you so much!!! ? Avigail/Pat?? ? Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:45:42 -0500 From: cormary at mts.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM I too am praying for Kim, I am sorry to hear of her affliction. Kim just in case you should read this, take comfort in the fact that Hashem never leaves you. He is in this all. i was over 70, already a couple of years ago, when I thought I was coming to the end of the rope. Health and finances were slipping away. Than i was prompted to read an e-mail not even written to me, and could have easily deleted it, it read : "Stay calm When things don't work out relax. Even if it's all your fault and you deserve everything you're getting, trust in G-d that it will all be good, and stay calm. When He sees how much you trust in Him, He will make it for the good." This was such a consolation to me, and I feel so unworthy the way it has turned out to the good, Baruch Hashem. I have to run along to work. My computer was out for about 3 days. So glad i am back on , praise to Hashem. Cornie patricia robbins wrote: Yes, we need to pray for Kim!? So very sorry to hear about her back pain.? I cannot even imagine how she is managing to keep up with all she must do.? Will continue to pray for her back, and will also pray that her headache subsides.? Please keep us posted, Betty. ? My love to you both, ? Avigail/Pat From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:04:39 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Dear friends, ? Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after she posted the event regarding praying for our children.? But she really is unable to do so.? She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and is supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today?.the doctor wants her to rest and take it easy for 5 days?a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on line.? She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable.? She really misses keeping up with all the posts.? I told her that I would send a post out to explain.? ? She didn?t ask for prayer, but she could really use it! ? Thanks and love you all, ? Elisheva/Betty ? ?_______________________________________________? ? ?No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.74/2181 - Release Date: 06/16/09 17:55:00 ?? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/748b39ae/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 06:57:49 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:57:49 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] "Bibi Joins the Spies" Message-ID: <855590370906180457w3ff5d62fg2401da9bc89c4959@mail.gmail.com> While those who love Eretz Yisrael, the Land of Israel, have been SO pleased with what Prime Minister Netanyahu said, and how he finessed his way around the issues he was responding to. However, we all seemed to overlook the fact that he *did* agree to a "Palestinian State" within the borders of Eretz Yisrael - G-d's Chosen Land....something that NO ONE has the right to do. * Hanoch* Published: 06/18/09, 11:24 AM Bibi Joins the Spies by Tzvi Fishman Is Israeli land Bibi's to give away? How chilling that Prime Minister Binyamin ("Bibi") Netanyahu agreed to a Palestinian State within the borders of *Eretz Yisrael* during the very week that we read the Torah portion about the Biblical spies in the wilderness, who Even talking about a Palestinian State sets a dangerous precedent. also "despised the cherished Land." Like Bibi, the spies were also willing to let a foreign power rule in* Eretz Yisrael* instead of the Jews. Their sin is arguably the worst transgression in Jewish history, paving the way for the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple that occurred years later, our sages inform us, on the very same day. Sure, Bibi "loves" the Land of Israel. But it is like a man who agrees to give one of his wife's arms and a leg to another man, even though he "loves" her dearly. Is Shechem, the burial place of the Biblical Joseph, just another place that you can barter away like a Monopoly deed? Is Bethlehem, the birthplace of King David, just another name on a map? Is Hevron, the city of our forefathers, to become a part of Palestine, no matter how emasculated that state may be? Is the heartland of the Bible - Elon Moreh, Shilo and Bet-El - Bibi's to give away? You can say that the Arabs will never agree to all of Netanyahu's stipulations, so there is nothing to worry about. But even talking about a Palestinian State sets a dangerous precedent that will be hard to erase. Rabbi Tzvi Yehuda Kook taught that all talk about surrendering parts of *Eretz Yisrael* weakens the nation: "In our generation, we are in a situation of war, and we must be careful of what we say. We must guard against speech which leads to discouragement. The Torah forbids this, saying, 'Lest his brother's heart melt like his heart.' The Torah tells us, 'Let not your heart be faint, fear not and do not tremble, nor be afraid because of them.' All of the talk about surrendering land confuses people, and there is no place for it. In our time, weak-heartedness is as forbidden as pork." The problem with Bibi, and the rest of Israel's political leaders, is that, like the spies, they don't have real faith in G-d. They see themselves as grasshoppers and Barack Obama as a giant. But just like in the days of the spies, when Joshua and Calev rushed forward to remind the Jews that *HaShem*'s promise would surely lead them to victory, so too the Joshuas and Calevs on the hilltops of Judea and Samaria today will surely shout out a brave battle cry; reminding us that it is Obama and his cronies throughout history who are the grasshoppers, and that the Eternal One of Israel will not lie. Sivan 26, 5769 / 18 June 09 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/9f064c50/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 07:02:11 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:02:11 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Settling the land In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <855590370906180502n687ce303w33aa6b8825145e05@mail.gmail.com> Hey Marvin, I SO agree with you...however, I am still filled with regrets - I first KNEW this when I was 19....So, for me, it's been a long trip knowing what I know now, over and over again. Sort of like my own, personal "Groundhog Day," if you ever saw that movie. I've got a lot of time to make up for.... * Hanoch * On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:09 PM, mhyde wrote: > Hanoch > > > > Attached is an Interesting article on settling the land of Israel. If we > were only teenagers again?.. knowing what we know now! > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/8a9d4021/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 07:15:51 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:15:51 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message.] In-Reply-To: <4A3999BD.5030208@westnet.com.au> References: <4A3999BD.5030208@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <855590370906180515v241c9e45vaa5bfda9a590d39b@mail.gmail.com> Hey Joe, Thanks for passing this on....but, why is there nothing in it that surprises me? It's the Church (maybe not the Catholic Church, but still, "The Church" from the Jewish point of view)trying to "Steal a (Jewish) Soul for Christ" (my terminology, not there's, BTW). From the Jewish boy being brought up in the heart of Christian Texas (come on mom, what were you thinking? What kind of Jewish education was your son receiving?). He will soon become merely a statistic, of the Vanishing American Jewish Community. And as for them, they will lie, deceive, distort and disinform - whatever it takes to draw anyone (but especially a Jew! "To the Jew first," right?) into their theological web. You know, I just found out there someone has been putting missionary tracts into mailboxes in Modi'in, and now there's an anti-missionary concern. I look forward to finding out who it is, first.... * Hanoch* ** P.S. Thanks for the concern about my Blood Pressure, but it's 110/70; I may not be happy, but, Baruch HaShem, I'm healthy... ** On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 9:34 PM, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: > *Shalom Chaverim, > > this is what we are up against !!!!!! > * > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70gmYw0LdQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.esavexposed.blogspot.com%2F&feature=player_embedded > *Hanoch, please watch your blood pressure !! > > I hope this exposes the rues of the world of sheker / lies and gives you > the appropriate ammunition in your arsenal of prayer > weaponry. > > Blessed are the children. > > Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > * > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/4011524a/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 07:22:29 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:22:29 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Yes.."He's back..." Message-ID: <855590370906180522s8a667c1s3f0dd300e87a8ca1@mail.gmail.com> *US Politics: Having a Carter* by Reb Akiva at Mystical Paths It's been a while since the US had a Carter. I remember that election, it was exciting! The US was passing the difficult Nixon presidency, where a very competent but harsh and uncharismatic president resigned due to a power grab breaking the law, followed by a bumbling not-quite competent vice president Ford taking over as president. And along came Carter. Big smile, smooth talker, bright eyes. Friendly, reasonably smart. And perhaps most important after the last 2 presidents, young(er) and energetic! He owned the youth vote - change was in the air. So he was liberal, gonna change things - who cares? Get those bumbling power hungry old men out of office! And we did. And change he did. He destroyed the military, and weapons programs were only for local employment of supportive senators (rather than what the military needed). He flubbed the economy, with inflation rising to 17% and interest rates to 12%. New terms such as Stagflation and The Misery Index were created, everything was regulated and controlled, nothing actually moved or happened. He let the Arabs boycott America and dictatorships march forward across the world. And in Iran, he let them hold kidnapped Americans for over a year. In the world, America moved from being a hard power to a soft power to a punching bag. In the country everyone said the good days of America are done, the American dream has failed, hopefully we'll all scrape by. America made a hard right turn after that, being blessed to find a politician who was charismatic and also brought a good vision. But it took 10 years to repair what was damaged in 4. 20 years after Carter, America has returned to a big smiling face and shouts of change. You wouldn't think a president could do that much damage and that much change in 4 years, but we have the lesson of Carter to show otherwise. And now, America has it's new Carter. As a show from those days said, 'Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.' Alienate allies, empower enemies, weaken the military, soft power, economic danger. Welcome back to having a Carter. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/04a1ff42/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 07:39:26 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:39:26 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with theTorah Message.] In-Reply-To: <4A3993B2.8050203@westnet.com.au> References: <4A3993B2.8050203@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <855590370906180539n6fbc0aa8hf8de4b6fa07f286d@mail.gmail.com> Hey Joe - Just a quick point of information, Achi. I didn't come up with any ideas - I was just clever enough to remember that Tammy and the Beth Lechem community ALREADY do these very things...and have years of experience. These are the folks to turn to. G'day mate! * Hanoch * On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 9:09 PM, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: > *Shalom Tammy , > > first of all welcome to the dialogue and for your thoughts on this very > important subject. > Hanoch and others have already added some very good imput as well. > Thank you all for some very good ideas. > > I cannot improve on these preliminary ideas. However I would like to add > some gems from the Jewish Sages that will, b'Ezrat HaShem, give you all > inspiration. > Tammy you are so correct when you say that children are capable of > retaining much knowledge. > > Rabbinic Sayings : > > "The children (Banim) are builders (Bonim) ; they not only build the future > of the family but likewise of the community." (Ber.64) > > "He who rears his children in the Torah is among those who enjoy the fruit > in this world while the capital remains for him in the world to come." ( > Shab. 127a) > > "Whoever has a son labouring in the Torah is as though he never dies." > (Gen. R. 49.4) > > "Whoever teaches his son Torah, Scripture imputes it to him as though he > had received it from Mount Horeb ; as it is said, "Thou shalt make them > known to thy children and thy children's children" (Deut.4.9),and it > continues, "The day that thou stoodest before the Lord thy G-d in Horeb. > (Deut4.10) - (Ber. 21b ) > > "If you acquired knowledge, what do you lack ? > If you lack knowledge, what have you acquired?" (Lev.R.1.6) > > "Touch not Mine anointed and do My prophets no harm " ( 1 Chron. 16. 22 ) - > "Mine anointed" are the schoolchildren, "My prophets" are the scholars. The > world only exists through the breath of schoolchildren. We may not suspend > the instruction of children even for the rebuilding of the Temple. A city in > which there are no schoolchildren will suffer destruction " ( Shab. 119b ) > > "No philosophers have arisen in the world like Balaam, the son of Beor and > Oenomaos of Gadara. All the heathen assembled to the latter and said to him, > ' Tell us how we may successfully contend against the people of Israel.' He > answered , ' Go to their Synagogues and schools, and if you hear there the > clamour of children rehearsing their lessons, you cannot prevail against > them ; for so their patriarch, Issac assured them saying, ' The voice is the > voice of Yaacov and the hands are the hands of Esav (Gen. 27.22), meaning > that when Yaacov's voice is heard in the Houses of Assembly, the hands of > Esav are powerless' " (Gen. R. 65.20 ) > > "Be careful of the children of the poor, since the Torah issues from them." > ( Ned. 81a ) > > "There are four qualities among the students, the sponge, the funnel, the > strainer and the seive, > the sponge sucks everything up; the funnel, lets in at one end and out the > other end ; the strainer, lets the wine pass out and retains the lees ; and > the seive, which lets out the bran and retains the fine flour." (Avot 5. 18 > ) > > Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > > > * > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Tammy Hulon > To: , Dave and Sharon , Andreyah > Jeffcoat , Aliyah > Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:02:59 -0400 > Subject: RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with > theTorah Message. > Boker Tov to You Too, > > I have been contemplating on when to jump in and what exactly to say. I > have been teaching our young children, usually ages 5-12 for the past 13 > years in Beth Lechem. > Several times I have started trying to put together teachings for such a > day as this. Now I see I need to begin to work on it again. My approach > will be to design lessons for teachers of small groups of children, mainly > ages 5-10. > > In our congregation, the children ages 10 and up usually move into > the adult Torah teaching time. First they have to be well grounded in the > facts of the Torah. > > Two ladies in our congregation, AliYah and AndreYah teach the younger > children 1-4. I will speak with them and see if they have ideas. > > AndreYah and I have previously planned to make a recording of many songs > that we have written for the children. Songs are definitely the way to go > to teach children. I have a song about the sons of Yaacov which the teens > still use when they are trying to remember all the tribes in order of birth. > > Definitely, one thing I have learned about teaching the children, is to > teach the facts straight from Torah. Read the scripture as it written, a > couple of verses at a time and then explain. As time goes on, then you can > teach them the lessons from the facts. Also, don't think they are too young > to learn about the offerings, the clothing of the high priest, the laws > of leprosy, all the furniture of the Tabernacle, etc. Don't be too > selective on what you teach them, just teach the facts in order of > the Torah. Start at the beginning or possibly Abraham. > > It is amazing what the children at this age are able to retain. > > I will think more and write again soon. > > Shalom, Tammy > > PS-Todah Hanoch!! > > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:10:08 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children with > theTorah Message. > From: youngbarzel at gmail.com > To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > > Boker tov - > > You folks have been sending around some really, really good ideas, and > there's probably not much that I can add. However, a thought just occurred > to me - although many of us have dealt with children (ours, or others) and > in some cases, grandchildren, we are *still *fairly removed from that era > of being a kid. However, the SWW has the "Next Generation" group composed > of tweens and twenties, who may be able to more readily identify what > resonates with kids the most, these days. > > Also, many of them have younger siblings (including some *really*young ones), and could be a great "focus group" and even "test market" for > some of these ideas. And, since it's mainly the Beth Lechem group, many of > them have been exposed to these ideas, in one form or another for quite a > number of years. And what has the community used for *their *children? > > In my opinion - these are the people that should be consulted, as part > of the whole process. Just trying to utilize the most readily identifiable > and appropriate resources, that are right at our fingertips... > > Have a wonderful day - > * Hanoch > > * > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:23 AM, wrote: > > Okay Elisheva, I like to keep things simple too. > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : > -------------- > > > Glad you liked the site, Eliron?I would be happy to help as I can?but just > don?t depend on me for internet literacy! > > Oops, it is past 2:00am here and I have just gotta get some sleep! > > Elisheva/Betty > > ------------------------------ > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of * > carlson_john at bellsouth.net > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:15 AM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* RE: [Dialogue] John, Sandra,Ways to reach young children with > the Torah Message. > > Hey Elisheva, > > I checked out the site, I like it. It would be great if we could put > together something like that with folks on these lists as the > contributers. I also like the idea of setting up a way for them to dialogue > with us. > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from "Betty K Givin" : > -------------- > > > > Hey Eliron, I know this was addressed to Sandra and I definitely want to > get her input because she started us off with some great ideas! (Thanks > again, Sandra). I think the CD this would be a terrific idea! I thought of > another one as well. > > As I was talking to Kim, last evening and telling her about some of the > good suggestions from Sandra and also Margie (and Pat a few weeks ago) > regarding the children?s books, stories and songs, having a Children?s Page > on the SWW. I was even thinking of perhaps having our children become Pen > Pals with one another. I am not sure how it would work, but perhaps we > could have a special SWW Children?s Page as Sandra suggested and maybe post > pictures of our children and their ages for a start, and see if we could > figure out a way to actually include them in our networking. In all the > influx of posts, I am not sure if you saw the Aklah link that I posted in > one of my emails. I think it is a great link for kids, and adults too to > learn more about the weekly parsha?s, festivals, even Israel and the Hebrew > language. It is colorful and eye appealing and very ?cutesy,? for those who > are drawn to that sort of thing. I personally love it?guess I still have my > little girl?s heart! That is probably what drew me into teaching! > > Anyway, check it out and see what you think. The thing that is missing is > the music, but there are lots of other resources. > > http://www.akhlah.com/ > > > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > ------------------------------ > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of * > carlson_john at bellsouth.net > *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:29 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] Ways to reach young children with the Torah > Message. > > Hey Sandra, > > Just spit-ballin' here. What if we figured out a way to make a CD of our > own for our kids (and others). Stories, songs, scripture readings made by > the folks on this list? > > What do ya think? > > -- > Eliron/John. > > "Be excellent to each other!" > Bill and Ted > > > -------------- Original message from "Sandra Inglis" < > sandrainglis at optusnet.com.au>: -------------- > Children?s songs: Young children love their grandparents and parents to > sing songs to them. Simple lyrics which teach children about YeHoWaH?s love > for them, about His creation, about His Torah can be sung to them from > birth. My grandchildren are staying with me and this last week since we > started praying about our children, I have begun singing to my youngest > grandchild who is 7 months about YeHoWaH when I am nursing her. I make up my > own lyrics and tune and sing what is on my heart. I normally do this when I > am alone with her. I figure one day she will ask me who is YeHoWaH, and then > I can explain to her. I have only had the courage to do this in the last > couple of days. I would appreciate your prayers to give me the courage to > continue to do this and also to write down the lyrics so I can sing to my > other grandchildren and teach them songs about YeHoWaH. > > Stories: Telling young children stories about YeHoWaH, about His creation, > about His torah is another way to reach out to young children. Writing > children?s books about these things might be a good project as they can be > given as gifts to our children and grandchildren. > > When my children were young I gave them projects to do about Creation and > Noah and other stories from the Tanakh. When they were older I read to them > from the Tanakh and asked them questions about what we had just read. They > enjoyed doing this with me and it helped them to learn comprehension. > > You could have a children?s page on SWW with stories, songs and activities > which could change weekly and could coincide with the weekly torah portion. > > These are some ideas I have come up with. I hope they will be helpful. > > Sandra. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------ > Bing? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > now. > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/937158f7/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Thu Jun 18 07:52:02 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:52:02 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM In-Reply-To: <927422.5486.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927422.5486.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Susan, I'm so sorry to hear you are in pain. I didn't know, and am so glad you told us that we know how to pray for you. May HaShem, the Lifter of our heads, restore health to your body and free you from this ever-present pain. Everytime I see you name on the List, I will be reminded to pray for you, Sweet Lady. Love, Avigail Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 04:47:52 -0700 From: beartrm at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Elisheva, Please tell Kim my prayers are with her. I so understand the her battle with pain. I have a condition called syringomyelia and have dealt eith pain for nearly 10 years now. Throiugh it all I have learned that HaShem truly never gives us more than we can bear but uses these times to show us how much we need Him. In my life I have drawn ever closer to Him beacause of this condtion. I will truly be praying that Jehovah Rapha heal her from the pain and through it all show her His awesome love. Shalom, Susan --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Helen Lusk wrote: From: Helen Lusk Subject: Re: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 4:19 AM I am also praying for Kim and her back condition and headaches. May she get enough rest and sleep to renew and heal her and may Hashem answer all our prayers on her behalf. Shalom and kind regards, Helen From: Betty K Givin To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:14:15 PM Subject: RE: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Thanks everyone for your prayers for Kim. I will let her know when I talk to her. Cornie, the quote you put in your email below speaks volumes, not just to Kim and her situation, but to Roger and me and to so many others who are trying to find jobs?staying calm and trusting HaShem are essential?else we lose it completely! Love and appreciate you all. Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of patricia robbins Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:15 AM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM You are such an inspiration, Cornie. I know your encouragement to Kim will help her through this time of pain and worry. I know it has helped me tremendously to read your words this morning. Thank you so much!!! Avigail/Pat Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:45:42 -0500 From: cormary at mts.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM I too am praying for Kim, I am sorry to hear of her affliction. Kim just in case you should read this, take comfort in the fact that Hashem never leaves you. He is in this all. i was over 70, already a couple of years ago, when I thought I was coming to the end of the rope. Health and finances were slipping away. Than i was prompted to read an e-mail not even written to me, and could have easily deleted it, it read : "Stay calm When things don't work out relax. Even if it's all your fault and you deserve everything you're getting, trust in G-d that it will all be good, and stay calm. When He sees how much you trust in Him, He will make it for the good." This was such a consolation to me, and I feel so unworthy the way it has turned out to the good, Baruch Hashem. I have to run along to work. My computer was out for about 3 days. So glad i am back on , praise to Hashem. Cornie patricia robbins wrote: Yes, we need to pray for Kim! So very sorry to hear about her back pain. I cannot even imagine how she is managing to keep up with all she must do. Will continue to pray for her back, and will also pray that her headache subsides. Please keep us posted, Betty. My love to you both, Avigail/Pat From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:04:39 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Dear friends, Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after she posted the event regarding praying for our children. But she really is unable to do so. She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and is supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today?.the doctor wants her to rest and take it easy for 5 days?a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on line. She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable. She really misses keeping up with all the posts. I told her that I would send a post out to explain. She didn?t ask for prayer, but she could really use it! Thanks and love you all, Elisheva/Betty _______________________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.74/2181 - Release Date: 06/16/09 17:55:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/83d6a670/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Thu Jun 18 08:13:33 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (Margie Creech) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] Message-ID: <745989.54031.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Eliron, Had I seen that video years ago I would be saying in my ignorance "Way to go!"? I thank HaShem that I didn't have much contact with the Jewish community back then or I would have been guilty of the same thing.? It's no wonder that many Jews are suspicious of us and many want nothing to do with us.? Can't say I blame them.? It is laughable to think I actually thought I could teach them a thing or two.? I to have an aversion to evangelism now.? I thank HaShem as the layers of ingnorance fall off. ? Margie --- On Thu, 6/18/09, carlson_john at bellsouth.net wrote: From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 1:14 AM Wow, it's soooo disturbing to see this from the perspective I hold now.? But I have to tell you, that pastor and his followers absolutely believe that what they are doing is an act of love.? Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending their actions, only saying that there is no malicious intent there, just ignorent good intentions. ? They honestly believe G-d brought that boy to them.? This is why I have such an aversion to evangelism.? They attracted this child to them and think he came of his own accord.? We have to be careful lest we become them, I think. ? -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted ? -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shalom Chaverim, this is what we are up against !!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70gmYw0LdQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.esavexposed.blogspot.com%2F&feature=player_embedded Hanoch, please watch your blood pressure !! I hope this exposes the rues of the world of sheker / lies and gives you the appropriate ammunition in your arsenal of prayer weaponry. Blessed are the children. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/23e7dece/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Thu Jun 18 08:28:22 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:28:22 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] In-Reply-To: <061820090614.4603.4A39DB520005C85D000011FB22230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <4A3999BD.5030208@westnet.com.au> <061820090614.4603.4A39DB520005C85D000011FB22230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: Hi John, I believe "evangelism" goes far beyond good intentions. Don't forget many actually feel good about praying for the "destruction of the body for the saving of the soul:" "IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, WHEN YE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER, AND MY SPIRIT, WITH THE POWER OF OUR LORD JEUS CHRIST, TO DELIVER SUCH AN ONE UNTO SATAN FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS" I Cor. 5:4-5 THAT'S DISTURBING!!!!!! Or maybe Paul is just being misunderstood........again. May HaShem be our Protector and the Lifter of our heads, Avigail From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:14:42 +0000 Wow, it's soooo disturbing to see this from the perspective I hold now. But I have to tell you, that pastor and his followers absolutely believe that what they are doing is an act of love. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending their actions, only saying that there is no malicious intent there, just ignorent good intentions. They honestly believe G-d brought that boy to them. This is why I have such an aversion to evangelism. They attracted this child to them and think he came of his own accord. We have to be careful lest we become them, I think. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shalom Chaverim, this is what we are up against !!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70gmYw0LdQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.esavexposed.blogspot.com%2F&feature=player_embedded Hanoch, please watch your blood pressure !! I hope this exposes the rues of the world of sheker / lies and gives you the appropriate ammunition in your arsenal of prayer weaponry. Blessed are the children. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/252fbd37/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 18 13:25:31 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:25:31 +0000 Subject: [Dialogue] Yes.."He's back..." In-Reply-To: <855590370906180522s8a667c1s3f0dd300e87a8ca1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <061820091825.15734.4A3A869B0008A9E100003D7622218675169B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> I saw this coming just from listening to his rhetoric during the election. I was in the Navy when Carter was elected, I had heard most of that stuff back then and then lived to endure the results. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Hanoch Young : -------------- US Politics: Having a Carter by Reb Akiva at Mystical Paths It's been a while since the US had a Carter. I remember that election, it was exciting! The US was passing the difficult Nixon presidency, where a very competent but harsh and uncharismatic president resigned due to a power grab breaking the law, followed by a bumbling not-quite competent vice president Ford taking over as president. And along came Carter. Big smile, smooth talker, bright eyes. Friendly, reasonably smart. And perhaps most important after the last 2 presidents, young(er) and energetic! He owned the youth vote - change was in the air. So he was liberal, gonna change things - who cares? Get those bumbling power hungry old men out of office! And we did. And change he did. He destroyed the military, and weapons programs were only for local employment of supportive senators (rather than what the military needed). He flubbed the economy, with inflation rising to 17% and interest rates to 12%. New terms such as Stagflation and The Misery Index were created, everything was regulated and controlled, nothing actually moved or happened. He let the Arabs boycott America and dictatorships march forward across the world. And in Iran, he let them hold kidnapped Americans for over a year. In the world, America moved from being a hard power to a soft power to a punching bag. In the country everyone said the good days of America are done, the American dream has failed, hopefully we'll all scrape by. America made a hard right turn after that, being blessed to find a politician who was charismatic and also brought a good vision. But it took 10 years to repair what was damaged in 4. 20 years after Carter, America has returned to a big smiling face and shouts of change. You wouldn't think a president could do that much damage and that much change in 4 years, but we have the lesson of Carter to show otherwise. And now, America has it's new Carter. As a show from those days said, 'Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.' Alienate allies, empower enemies, weaken the military, soft power, economic danger. Welcome back to having a Carter. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/843584b0/attachment.html From rossknichols at me.com Thu Jun 18 13:33:50 2009 From: rossknichols at me.com (Ross Nichols) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:33:50 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON References: <2774E1B3E1A0564DB7E7C2336D34376C15A4024C61@msgcpla090a.corpmsg.com> Message-ID: > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVM6x4BechI > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09 17 > :54:00 > > > > > > > Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. > > > > > Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17 > :05:00 > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 17 > :51:00 > > Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet > Explorer 8 > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 07 > :50:00 > > > Return-Path: > Received: from rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (rly-mc06.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.90 > ]) by > air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMC072- > d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, 08 > Jun 2009 20:19:45 -0400 > Received: from eastrmmtao104.cox.net (eastrmmtao104.cox.net [68.230.240.46 > ]) by > rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMC065- > d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, > 08 Jun 2009 20:19:37 -0400 > Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) > by eastrmmtao104.cox.net > (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with > ESMTP > id <20090609001936.BZLX1310.eastrmmtao104.cox.net at eastrmimpo02.cox.net > >; > Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400 > Received: from Leah ([70.171.100.19]) > by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp > id 1cKc1c0040R6K2W02cKc5j; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400 > X-VR-Score: -100.00 > X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=vnREMb7VAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 > a=L2gErYZ9uM-ZAVPAGPEA:9 a=GD4e_CQjiTZLd1dF5NIA:7 > a=Oh9qBsmaPp3wuTywa79W8fnZbB4A:4 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=AAvYLDLOAAAA:8 > a=FrKaCueunG8NjPR3uuwA:9 a=43rjAPcKYfkS0xgDtbQA:7 > a=EI3DFRbTfXepUGsvSUXURkbhovYA:4 a=d-1ze5jHbJEA:10 > X-CM-Score: 0.00 > Message-ID: <37134651E3BE44C3B3CB232DDBE63E2D at Leah> > From: "Leah Stone" > To: "si londe" , "leon mucasey" >, > "susan londe" , > "gabrielle stone" , > "barbara jeskin" , "brigette cohn" >, > "Carole Katz" , > "elinor cohen" , > "barbara weiner" , > "betty zivitz" , "lynne kullman" > > Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:19:44 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80" > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 > X-AOL-IP: 68.230.240.46 > > ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="Windows-1252" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > AM > Subject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON > > > > =20 > > --- > --- > --- > -------------------------------------------------------------------= > ---- > Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON > Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:48:55 +1000 > > > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PM > Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is beautiful. Shabbat Shalom!=20 > > > > Please view this video and forward it onto > everyone you=20= > know. > The hope is to get 1 million views. > It has only been on the web for 1 day and is > about to hi= > t the first 10,000. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DqVM6x4BechI > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 > Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - > Release=20= > Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00 > > > =20 > > > --- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter > now.. =20 > > > --- > --- > --- > -------------------------------------------------------------------= > ---- > Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now..=20 > --- > --- > --- > -------------------------------------------------------------------= > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 > Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 1 > = > 7:05:00 > > > > --- > --- > --- > -------------------------------------------------------------------= > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 1 > = > 7:51:00 > > > > > --- > --- > --- > -------------------------------------------------------------------= > ---- > Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet > Explorer=20= > 8=20 > > > --- > --- > --- > -------------------------------------------------------------------= > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 0 > = > 7:50:00 > > ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="Windows-1252" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > charset=3Dwindows-1252= > "> > > > > >
 
>
>
AM
>
Subject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON
>


 
>
> Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 > 09:48:55=20 > +1000

> > >
 
>
----- Original Message -----=20 >
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PM
>
Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON
>

>
 
>
 
>
 
>
 
>
 
>
 
>
 
> > > >


>
5px; BORDE= > R-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"> >
>
>
 
> > > > TR>



>
MARGIN-= > LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">
>
>
>

>
>
 
>

>
size=3D2> style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 24px Arial; TEXT- > TRANSFORM: no= > ne; COLOR: rgb(255,0,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; > LETTER-SPA= > CING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate"> face=3DArial= > color=3D#ff00ff size=3D5>This is beautiful.  Shabbat=20 > Shalom! 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
5px; MAR= > GIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"> >
>
>
LEFT: 5px;= > MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"> >
Arial">
<= > /DIV> >
 
COLOR: transp= > arent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 > size=3D2> =3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D4> >
>
black">Pleas= > e view=20 > this video and forward it onto everyone you=20 > know.
>
black">The h= > ope is=20 > to get 1 million views.
>
black">It ha= > s only=20 > been on the web for 1 day and is about to hit > the first=20 > 10,000.
>
SIZE: 18pt= > ; COLOR: black">      SPAN> style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT- > FAMILY: Arial,= > sans-serif"> =3DqVM6x4BechI href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= > =3DqVM6x4BechI" > rel=3Dnofollow> style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dq= > VM6x4BechI
 BLOCKQUOTE> DIV>
>
>
 


DIV>
>
>
> >

No virus found in this incoming=20 > message.
Checked by AVG - "=20= > rel=3Dnofollow>www.avg.com
Version: > 8.0.323 / Virus= > =20 > Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09=20 > 17:54:00

BLOCKQUOTE>

>
> Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. > ef=3D"http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=3DX3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1= > fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWd= > saW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=3D14600t3ni/**http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagl= > ine/creativeholidays/*http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=3Dother%26p2= > =3Dau%26p3=3Dmailtagline" rel=3Dnofollow>Enter now.. DIV> OCKQUOTE>

>
> Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. .= > lrd.yahoo.com/ > _ylc=3DX3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCB= > MaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHk= > DYXVueg--/SIG=3D14600t3ni/**http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholi= > days/*http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=3Dother%26p2=3Dau%26p3=3Dmail= > tagline">Enter=20 > now..=20 >
> >



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by > AVG - href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.329 / > Virus Dat= > abase:=20 > 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00
>

> >



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by > AVG - href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / > Virus Dat= > abase:=20 > 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 17:51:00

>

> Surfing the web just got more rewarding. = > m/internet-explorer-8/?ocid=3DT010MSN07A0716U" > target=3D_new>Download the N= > ew Internet Explorer 8=20 >

>

> >


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by > AVG -=20 > www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - > Release=20 > Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
> > ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- > > > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. > > 3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>


No virus found in this > incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20 > www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - > Release=20 > Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
> > ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- > > > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/a2893d54/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Thu Jun 18 14:35:07 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (creechmargie at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON Message-ID: <768619.54722.qm@web58501.mail.re3.yahoo.com> ?Thank you Ross.?That was beautiful. ?I pray that the day will come soon when?HaShem will?bring real peace?to Israel and the whole world.? ? Margie? --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Ross Nichols wrote: From: Ross Nichols Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON To: "List Dialogue" Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 1:33 PM ?????http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVM6x4BechI ? ? ? ? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00 ? ? Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now..? ? Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 17:51:00 Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet Explorer 8 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00 ? Return-Path: Received: from rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (rly-mc06.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.90]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMC072-d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:45 -0400Received: from eastrmmtao104.cox.net (eastrmmtao104.cox.net [68.230.240.46]) by rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMC065-d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:37 -0400Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120])????????? by eastrmmtao104.cox.net????????? (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP????????? id <20090609001936.BZLX1310.eastrmmtao104.cox.net at eastrmimpo02.cox.net>;????????? Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400Received: from Leah ([70.171.100.19])??? by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp??? id 1cKc1c0040R6K2W02cKc5j; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400X-VR-Score: -100.00X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=vnREMb7VAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=L2gErYZ9uM-ZAVPAGPEA:9 a=GD4e_CQjiTZLd1dF5NIA:7 a=Oh9qBsmaPp3wuTywa79W8fnZbB4A:4 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=AAvYLDLOAAAA:8 a=FrKaCueunG8NjPR3uuwA:9 a=43rjAPcKYfkS0xgDtbQA:7 a=EI3DFRbTfXepUGsvSUXURkbhovYA:4 a=d-1ze5jHbJEA:10X-CM-Score: 0.00Message-ID: <37134651E3BE44C3B3CB232DDBE63E2D at Leah>From: "Leah Stone" To: "si londe" , "leon mucasey" ,??????? "susan londe" ,??????? "gabrielle stone" ,??????? "barbara jeskin" , "brigette cohn" ,??????? "Carole Katz" ,??????? "elinor cohen" ,??????? "barbara weiner" ,??????? "betty zivitz" , "lynne kullman" Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ONDate: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:19:44 -0500MIME-Version: 1.0Content-Type: multipart/alternative;??? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80"X-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579X-AOL-IP: 68.230.240.46?------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="Windows-1252"Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable??AMSubject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON???=20?----------------------------------------------------------------------------=----Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ONDate: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:48:55 +1000???----- Original Message -----=20Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PMSubject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON??????????????????????????????????????? This is beautiful.? Shabbat Shalom!=20?????????????????????? Please view this video and forward it onto everyone you=20=know.??????????????????? The hope is to get 1 million views.??????????????????? It has only been on the web for 1 day and is about to hi=t the first 10,000.???????????????????????? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DqVM6x4BechI????????----------------------------------------------------------------????????????????? No virus found in this incoming message.??????????????? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20??? ????????????Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release=20=Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00????????????? =20??------------------------------------------------------------------------??????? Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. =20??----------------------------------------------------------------------------=----Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now..=20----------------------------------------------------------------------------=----???No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 1=7:05:00???----------------------------------------------------------------------------=----???No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 1=7:51:00????----------------------------------------------------------------------------=----Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet Explorer=20=8=20??----------------------------------------------------------------------------=----???No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 0=7:50:00?------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80Content-Type: text/html;??? charset="Windows-1252"Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable??
 
AM
Subject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON


 
Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:48:55=20+1000

?
 
----- Original Message -----=20
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PM
Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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This is beautiful.  Shabbat=20??????????????? Shalom! 
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Pleas=e view=20??????????????????? this video and forward it onto everyone you=20??????????????????? know.
???????????????????
The h=ope is=20??????????????????? to get 1 million views.
???????????????????
It ha=s only=20??????????????????? been on the web for 1 day and is about to hit the first=20??????????? ????????10,000.
???????????????????
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dq=VM6x4BechI
???????????????
???????????????
 



???????????????
???????????????
????????????????

No virus found in this incoming=20??????????????? message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.323 / Virus==20??????????????? Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09=20??????????????? 17:54:00


???????
??????? Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now..

Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter=20now..=20
?



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Dat=abase:=20270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00

?



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Dat=abase:=20270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 17:51:00

Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the N=ew Internet Explorer 8=20

?


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release=20Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
?------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- ? Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. 3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release=20Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
?------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- ? Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/ca2f9fd6/attachment.html From tposborne77 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 18 15:18:48 2009 From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com (Tracy Osborne) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON In-Reply-To: References: <2774E1B3E1A0564DB7E7C2336D34376C15A4024C61@msgcpla090a.corpmsg.com> Message-ID: <749107.40353.qm@web51102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Beautiful! Thanks Ross! ________________________________ From: Ross Nichols To: List Dialogue Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 2:33:50 PM Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON >> >> >> >>?????http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVM6x4BechI >>? >>? >>? >>? >> ________________________________ >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00 >>? >>? >> ________________________________ >>Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now..? >? > ________________________________ >Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. > ________________________________ > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00 > ________________________________ > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 17:51:00 > ________________________________ >Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet Explorer 8 > ________________________________ > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00 >? >Return-Path: >Received: from rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (rly-mc06.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.90]) by >air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMC072-d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, 08 >Jun 2009 20:19:45 -0400 >Received: from eastrmmtao104.cox.net (eastrmmtao104.cox.net [68.230.240.46]) by >rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMC065-d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, >08 Jun 2009 20:19:37 -0400 >Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) >????????? by eastrmmtao104.cox.net >????????? (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP >????????? id <20090609001936.BZLX1310.eastrmmtao104.cox.net at eastrmimpo02.cox.net>; >????????? Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400 >Received: from Leah ([70.171.100.19]) >??? by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp >??? id 1cKc1c0040R6K2W02cKc5j; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400 >X-VR-Score: -100.00 >X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=vnREMb7VAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 > a=L2gErYZ9uM-ZAVPAGPEA:9 a=GD4e_CQjiTZLd1dF5NIA:7 > a=Oh9qBsmaPp3wuTywa79W8fnZbB4A:4 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=AAvYLDLOAAAA:8 > a=FrKaCueunG8NjPR3uuwA:9 a=43rjAPcKYfkS0xgDtbQA:7 > a=EI3DFRbTfXepUGsvSUXURkbhovYA:4 a=d-1ze5jHbJEA:10 >X-CM-Score: 0.00 >Message-ID: <37134651E3BE44C3B3CB232DDBE63E2D at Leah> >From: "Leah Stone" >To: "si londe" , "leon mucasey" , >??????? "susan londe" , >??????? "gabrielle stone" , >??????? "barbara jeskin" , "brigette cohn" , >??????? "Carole Katz" , >??????? "elinor cohen" , >??????? "barbara weiner" , >??????? "betty zivitz" , "lynne kullman" >Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON >Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:19:44 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >??? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80" >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 >X-AOL-IP: 68.230.240.46 >? >------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80 >Content-Type: text/plain; >??? charset="Windows-1252" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >? >? >AM >Subject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON >? >? >? >=20 >? >----------------------------------------------------------------------------= >---- >Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON >Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:48:55 +1000 >? >? >? >----- Original Message -----=20 >Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PM >Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >??????????????? This is beautiful.? Shabbat Shalom!=20 >? >? >? >??????????????????? Please view this video and forward it onto everyone you=20= >know. >??????????????????? The hope is to get 1 million views. >??????????????????? It has only been on the web for 1 day and is about to hi= >t the first 10,000. >???????????????????????? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DqVM6x4BechI >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >---------------------------------------------------------------- >? >? >??????????????? No virus found in this incoming message. >??????????????? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 >??? ????????????Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release=20= >Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00 >? >? >??????????? =20 >? >? >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >??????? Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. =20 >? >? >----------------------------------------------------------------------------= >---- >Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now..=20 >----------------------------------------------------------------------------= >---- >? >? >? >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 >Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 1= >7:05:00 >? >? >? >----------------------------------------------------------------------------= >---- >? >? >? >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 >Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 1= >7:51:00 >? >? >? >? >----------------------------------------------------------------------------= >---- >Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet Explorer=20= >8=20 >? >? >----------------------------------------------------------------------------= >---- >? >? >? >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 >Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 0= >7:50:00 >? >------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80 >Content-Type: text/html; >??? charset="Windows-1252" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >? > > >"> > >? > > >
 
>
>
AM
>
Subject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON
>


 
>
>Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:48:55=20 >+1000

> >? >
 
>
----- Original Message -----=20 >
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PM
>
Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON
>

>
 
>
 
>
 
>
 
>
 
>
 
>
 
> >? >? >???


>????? R-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"> >???????
>???????
>???????
 
>??????? >????????? >????????? >??????????? TR>



>????????????? LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">
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>???????????????

>???????????????
>???????????????
 
>???????????????

>???????????????
??????????? style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 24px Arial; TEXT-TRANSFORM: no= >ne; COLOR: rgb(255,0,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPA= >CING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate"> color=3D#ff00ff size=3D5>This is beautiful.  Shabbat=20 >??????????????? Shalom! 
>???????????????
>???????????????
>???????????????
>???????????????
>???????????????
>???????????????
>???????????????
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>?????????????????
>????????????????? MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"> >???????????????????

<= >/DIV> >???????????? ???????
 
arent"????????????????????? face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>=3D"Comic Sans MS"????????????????????? color=3D#000000 size=3D4> >???????????????????
>????? ??????????????
Pleas= >e view=20 >??????????????????? this video and forward it onto everyone you=20 >??????????????????? know.
>???????????????????
The h= >ope is=20 >??????????????????? to get 1 million views.
>???????????????????
It ha= >s only=20 >??????????????????? been on the web for 1 day and is about to hit the first=20 >??????????? ????????10,000.
>???????????????????
; COLOR: black">     ???????????????? style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial,= > sans-serif">=3DqVM6x4BechI????????????????????? href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= >=3DqVM6x4BechI"????????????????????? rel=3Dnofollow>?? style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dq= >VM6x4BechI
DIV>
>???????????????
>???????????????
 



>???????????????
>???????????????
>? >???????????????

No virus found in this incoming=20 >??????????????? message.
Checked by AVG - ????? ???????????rel=3Dnofollow>www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.323 / Virus= >=20 >??????????????? Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09=20 >??????????????? 17:54:00


>???????
>??????? Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. ef=3D"http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=3DX3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1= >fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWd= >saW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=3D14600t3ni/**http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagl= >ine/creativeholidays/*http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=3Dother%26p2= >=3Dau%26p3=3Dmailtagline"????????? rel=3Dnofollow>Enter now..
OCKQUOTE>

>
>Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=3DX3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCB= >MaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHk= >DYXVueg--/SIG=3D14600t3ni/**http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholi= >days/*http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=3Dother%26p2=3Dau%26p3=3Dmail= >tagline">Enter=20 >now..=20 >
>? >



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Dat= >abase:=20 >270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00
>

>? >



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Dat= >abase:=20 >270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 17:51:00

>

>Surfing the web just got more rewarding. m/internet-explorer-8/?ocid=3DT010MSN07A0716U"? target=3D_new>Download the N= >ew Internet Explorer 8=20 >

>

>? >


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20 >www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release=20 >Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
>? >------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- >? > ________________________________ >Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. 3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20 >www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release=20 >Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
>? >------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- >? > ________________________________ >Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/0a13887b/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jun 18 16:11:03 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 07:11:03 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON] Message-ID: <4A3AAD67.1020301@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/1f961e63/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Ross Nichols Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:33:50 -0500 Size: 115134 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/1f961e63/attachment.eml From cormary at mts.net Thu Jun 18 17:37:28 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:37:28 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON] In-Reply-To: <4A3AAD67.1020301@westnet.com.au> References: <4A3AAD67.1020301@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <4A3AC1A8.2090502@mts.net> Amen Cornie JOE INDOMENICO wrote: > /Shalom Ross, > > one of the greatest Jewish songs sung every Shabbat. > I call it the anthem of peace. > > /*Oseh shalom bimromav > Hu ya'aseh shalom aleinu > V'al kol Yisrael > V'imru, v'imru amen. > (May he who makes peace in high places, make peace for us and for all > Israel, and let us say, amen.) > > */Thank you for posting this wonderful and inspiring song. > We beseech HaShem, the only One //who can bring a just and everlasting > peace to the world. > His Shalom will only come on His terms and based on His Covenantal Truth. > > *Shalom v'Ahavah > JOE. > */ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON > From: > Ross Nichols > Date: > Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:33:50 -0500 > To: > List Dialogue > > To: > List Dialogue > > > >> >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVM6x4BechI >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: >> 05/14/09 17:54:00 >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now. >> . >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now. >> . >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: >> 05/16/09 17:05:00 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: >> 05/21/09 17:51:00 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet >> Explorer 8 >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: >> 05/27/09 07:50:00 >> >> >> Return-Path: > >> Received: from rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (rly-mc06.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.90]) by >> air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMC072-d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, 08 >> Jun 2009 20:19:45 -0400 >> Received: from eastrmmtao104.cox.net (eastrmmtao104.cox.net [68.230.240.46]) by >> rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMC065-d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, >> 08 Jun 2009 20:19:37 -0400 >> Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) >> by eastrmmtao104.cox.net >> (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP >> id <20090609001936.BZLX1310.eastrmmtao104.cox.net at eastrmimpo02.cox.net >; >> Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400 >> Received: from Leah ([70.171.100.19]) >> by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp >> id 1cKc1c0040R6K2W02cKc5j; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400 >> X-VR-Score: -100.00 >> X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=vnREMb7VAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 >> a=L2gErYZ9uM-ZAVPAGPEA:9 a=GD4e_CQjiTZLd1dF5NIA:7 >> a=Oh9qBsmaPp3wuTywa79W8fnZbB4A:4 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=AAvYLDLOAAAA:8 >> a=FrKaCueunG8NjPR3uuwA:9 a=43rjAPcKYfkS0xgDtbQA:7 >> a=EI3DFRbTfXepUGsvSUXURkbhovYA:4 a=d-1ze5jHbJEA:10 >> X-CM-Score: 0.00 >> Message-ID: <37134651E3BE44C3B3CB232DDBE63E2D at Leah> >> From: "Leah Stone" > >> To: "si londe" >, "leon mucasey" >, >> "susan londe" >, >> "gabrielle stone" >, >> "barbara jeskin" >, "brigette cohn" >, >> "Carole Katz" >, >> "elinor cohen" >, >> "barbara weiner" >, >> "betty zivitz" >, "lynne kullman" > >> Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON >> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:19:44 -0500 >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80" >> X-Priority: 3 >> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 >> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 >> X-AOL-IP: 68.230.240.46 >> >> ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80 >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="Windows-1252" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> >> AM >> Subject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON >> >> >> >> =20 >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= >> ---- >> Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON >> Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:48:55 +1000 >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----=20 >> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PM >> Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This is beautiful. Shabbat Shalom!=20 >> >> >> >> Please view this video and forward it onto everyone you=20= >> know. >> The hope is to get 1 million views. >> It has only been on the web for 1 day and is about to hi= >> t the first 10,000. >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DqVM6x4BechI >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com =20 >> Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release=20= >> Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00 >> >> >> =20 >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. =20 >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= >> ---- >> Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now..=20 >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= >> ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com =20 >> Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 1= >> 7:05:00 >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= >> ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com =20 >> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 1= >> 7:51:00 >> >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= >> ---- >> Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet Explorer=20= >> 8=20 >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= >> ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com =20 >> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 0= >> 7:50:00 >> >> ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80 >> Content-Type: text/html; >> charset="Windows-1252" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> >> >> "> >> >> >> >> >>
 
>>
>>
AM
>>
Subject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON
>>


 
>>
>> Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:48:55=20 >> +1000

>> >> >>
 
>>
----- Original Message -----=20 >>
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PM
>>
Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON
>>

>>
 
>>
 
>>
 
>>
 
>>
 
>>
 
>>
 
>> >> >> >>


>>
> R-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"> >>
>>
>>
 
>> >> >> >> > TR>



>>
> LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">
>>
>>
>>

>>
>>
 
>>

>>
> style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 24px Arial; TEXT-TRANSFORM: no= >> ne; COLOR: rgb(255,0,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPA= >> CING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate">> color=3D#ff00ff size=3D5>This is beautiful.  Shabbat=20 >> Shalom! 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> GIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"> >>
>>
>>
> MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"> >>

<= >> /DIV> >>
 
> arent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>> =3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D4> >>
>>
Pleas= >> e view=20 >> this video and forward it onto everyone you=20 >> know.
>>
The h= >> ope is=20 >> to get 1 million views.
>>
It ha= >> s only=20 >> been on the web for 1 day and is about to hit the first=20 >> 10,000.
>>
> DIV>
>>
>>
 



>>
>>
>> >>

No virus found in this incoming=20 >> message.
Checked by AVG - > rel=3Dnofollow>www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.323 / Virus= >> =20 >> Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09=20 >> 17:54:00


>>
>> Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. > ef=3D"http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=3DX3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1= >> fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWd= >> saW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=3D14600t3ni/**http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagl= >> ine/creativeholidays/*http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=3Dother%26p2= >> =3Dau%26p3=3Dmailtagline" rel=3Dnofollow>Enter now..
> OCKQUOTE>

>>
>> Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. > lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=3DX3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCB= >> MaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHk= >> DYXVueg--/SIG=3D14600t3ni/**http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholi= >> days/*http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=3Dother%26p2=3Dau%26p3=3Dmail= >> tagline">Enter=20 >> now..=20 >>
>> >>



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - > href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Dat= >> abase:=20 >> 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00
>>

>> >>



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - > href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Dat= >> abase:=20 >> 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 17:51:00

>>

>> Surfing the web just got more rewarding. > m/internet-explorer-8/?ocid=3DT010MSN07A0716U" target=3D_new>Download the N= >> ew Internet Explorer 8=20 >>

>>

>> >>


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20 >> www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release=20 >> Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
>> >> ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes >> for the grill. >> >> 3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>


No virus found in this >> incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20 >> www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release=20 >> Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
>> >> ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes >> for the grill. >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.78/2185 - Release Date: 06/18/09 05:53:00 > From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jun 18 19:34:35 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:34:35 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Yes.."He's back..."] Message-ID: <4A3ADD1B.7090800@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/65431819/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Palestinian-smuggler-move-001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 25659 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/65431819/attachment.jpg -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Yes.."He's back..." Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:25:31 +0000 Size: 9622 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/65431819/attachment.eml From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jun 18 19:39:59 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:39:59 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. Message-ID: <4A3ADE5F.8070306@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/4b0d5071/attachment.html From jid at westnet.com.au Thu Jun 18 19:40:46 2009 From: jid at westnet.com.au (JOE INDOMENICO) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:40:46 +1000 Subject: [Dialogue] TEACHERS. Message-ID: <4A3ADE8E.5010804@westnet.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/49bd6e4e/attachment.html From creechmargie at yahoo.com Thu Jun 18 20:01:57 2009 From: creechmargie at yahoo.com (Margie Creech) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. Message-ID: <5181.68175.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Joe, absolutely beautiful.? --- On Thu, 6/18/09, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: From: JOE INDOMENICO Subject: [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 7:39 PM Shalom Chaverim, Hanoch, this one is for you. I know your blood pressure is perfect, but this one is to soothe your countdown to Aliyah and the reunion with your daughters and Am Yisrael. For all of us that are stuck, may we be worthy of HaShem's calling and final round up. What a day when we finally get to go home and join together with the true family of HaShem and be ONE with Him. May each and everyone of us merit HaShem's Rachamim and Geulah. http://www.jewtube.com/video/2242/to-live-in-israelthe-promised-land Shabbat Shalom JOE. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/264e3092/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 18 20:52:29 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 01:52:29 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] Yes.."He's back..."] In-Reply-To: <4A3ADD1B.7090800@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <061920090152.5927.4A3AEF5D00025FC20000172722218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> I know, let's give Gaza to Jimmy (or Jimmy to Gaza)! Or maybe he could offer the people of Gaza his peanut farm in recompense for his past poor behavior. After all, he doesn't have Camp David to hide out in anymore. Incredible! -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shalom Hanoch and Eliron, I think the man should stick to peanut farming or maybe he has turned into a peanut. Smuggling a terrorist through this illegal tunnel between Egypt and Gaza, the Palestinian goat is in violation of international law. (Guardian) Former US president visits Hamas-controlled Strip, says he feels partly responsible for destruction caused during Israeli offensive by bombs dropped by USA manufactured F-16 planes. Carter demanded that Israel "lift a blockade on the Palestinian enclave and stop treating its residents like "savages." "I am very affected. I must hold back my tears at seeing the destruction that was inflicted on your people," he said. "I came to the American School. It taught your children, it was funded by my country and I see that it was deliberately destroyed by bombs dropped by F-16 manufactured in my country. I feel partly responsible for what happened and all the Americans and the Israelis must have the same feeling," he added. (YNET) Barely reported, but Israel confirmed reports that there was a failed assassination attempt against Weepy Jimmy today in Gaza. A roadside bomb was found and diffused by Hamas forces minutes before Carter's motorcade was due to pass along side it, in Gaza. Hamas now denies they diffused the bomb. (source) b'Ahavat Yehudah v'Yisrael JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/b8957ddd/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 25659 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/b8957ddd/attachment.jpe From tposborne77 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 18 21:06:36 2009 From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com (Tracy Osborne) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] In-Reply-To: References: <4A3999BD.5030208@westnet.com.au> <061820090614.4603.4A39DB520005C85D000011FB22230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <703916.63426.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yes, Dear Pat/Avigail {if you would privately send me your address, I have a gift to send you, I think about you often}, yes?Hakham Shaul?is misunderstood by many, if not most, quite understandably due to?so much disinformation,? ? With your indulgence, please, if I may attempt to remove the Greekism and Churchism and Ebionism?from this Most Blessed Shliach of His Majesty Yeshua Ha Mashiach, Hakham/Rabbi Shaul,?by the Will of the Most High -?who is The One and Only Y*A*H*U*W*E*H -??E*Lo*heem of Avraham, Yitshach, and Ya'acov/Yisrael (who raised His Mashiach from the grave / The Firstfruits of ALL ISRAEL!) Blessed be HE!!!!!!!!!!!! ? "IN THE NAME/Authority OF OUR?Master?Yeshua HaMashiach [who is the embodiment of All Israel], WHEN YE [Orthodox Hakhamim/Rabbis] ARE GATHERED TOGETHER [in?Beit Din Council], AND?MY SPIRIT, WITH THE POWER OF OUR Master Yeshua HaMashiach, TO DELIVER SUCH AN?ONE [who is fornicating with his father's wife]UNTO SATAN FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH [lest, like Achan he destroy this entire congregation of Israel], THAT [hopefully he comes to repentance and?his]THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE [HASHEM - executed by His Mashiach/Agent/The Branch]Master?Yeshua [ben Yosef ben David]"? I Cor. 5:4-5 After this sinner's repentance, the wisdom of His Eminence, Hakham Shaul becomes evident: 2Co 2:62Co 2:72Co 2:82Co 2:92Co 2:10 forgive any thing, I forgivealso: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it,for your sakes forgave I itin the person [as as Shliach/Agent] of Mashiach; 2Co 2:11Lest Satan should get an advantage of us [ALL ISRAEL]: for we are not ignorant of his devices. To whom ye [beit din and congregation] For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things. Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm yourlove toward him. So that contrariwise ye oughtrather to forgive him,and comfort him,lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. Sufficient to such a man [this is the same man fornicating with his father's wife and now has repented]?isthis punishment, which was inflictedof many [beit din and congregation]. Chesed v'Shalom, ? Tracy Osborne www.OnHigh.org ? ________________________________ From: patricia robbins To: "dialogue at rootsoffaith.org" Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:28:22 AM Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] Hi John, ? I believe?"evangelism" goes far beyond?good intentions.?? Don't forget?many actually feel good about praying for the?"destruction of the body for the saving of the soul:" ? "IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, WHEN YE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER, AND MY SPIRIT, WITH THE POWER OF OUR LORD JEUS CHRIST, TO DELIVER SUCH AN?ONE UNTO SATAN FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS"? I Cor. 5:4-5 ? THAT'S DISTURBING!!!!!!? Or maybe Paul is just being misunderstood........again. ? May HaShem?be our Protector and the Lifter of our heads, ? Avigail ? ? ? ? ? ________________________________ From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:14:42 +0000 Wow, it's soooo disturbing to see this from the perspective I hold now.? But I have to tell you, that pastor and his followers absolutely believe that what they are doing is an act of love.? Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending their actions, only saying that there is no malicious intent there, just ignorent good intentions. They honestly believe G-d brought that boy to them.? This is why I have such an aversion to evangelism.? They attracted this child to them and think he came of his own accord.? We have to be careful lest we become them, I think. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- > >Shalom Chaverim, > >this is what we are up against !!!!!! >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70gmYw0LdQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.esavexposed.blogspot.com%2F&feature=player_embedded >Hanoch, please watch your blood pressure !! > >I hope this exposes the rues of the world of sheker / lies and gives you the appropriate ammunition in your arsenal of prayer >weaponry. > >Blessed are the children. > >Shalom v'Ahavah >JOE. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/1924261f/attachment.html From kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 21:35:22 2009 From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com (kim alvarado) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:35:22 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM In-Reply-To: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> References: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <1c8dbb6e0906181935v205f1b2bp22c1de8057f2785d@mail.gmail.com> Hello friends, I am just on for a minute. I don't want to "push it". Thank you so much for your prayers and understanding. I am feeling somewhat better ... looking forward to Shabbat rest. I haven't gone through all the email yet, but hope to spend some time doing that Sat. and Sun. p.m. I am looking forward to "catching up". Early Shabbat Shalom, Kim On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Betty K Givin wrote: > Dear friends, > > > > Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after > she posted the event regarding praying for our children. But she really is > unable to do so. She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, > went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and is > supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today?.the doctor wants her to > rest and take it easy for 5 days?a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and > having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving > that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on > line. She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable. She > really misses keeping up with all the posts. I told her that I would send a > post out to explain. > > > > She didn?t ask for prayer, but she could really use it! > > > > Thanks and love you all, > > > > Elisheva/Betty > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/a8024053/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Thu Jun 18 20:57:23 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:57:23 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON In-Reply-To: References: <2774E1B3E1A0564DB7E7C2336D34376C15A4024C61@msgcpla090a.corpmsg.com> Message-ID: <83F140E2A09B40F8ADDA1BA1AE10E3E7@bettylaptop> Very, very moving and spirit-filled.brought tears to my eyes! The spirit behind the singing took me back to some of the "old days" at Joe's! I wanted to download it, but was unable to. Thanks so much, Ross for sending Elisheva/Betty _____ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVM6x4BechI _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00 _____ Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now. . _____ Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now. . _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00 _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 17:51:00 _____ Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet Explorer 8 _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00 Return-Path: < leahpstone at cox.net> Received: from rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (rly-mc06.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.90]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMC072-d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:45 -0400 Received: from eastrmmtao104.cox.net (eastrmmtao104.cox.net [68.230.240.46]) by rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMC065-d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:37 -0400 Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao104.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id < 20090609001936.BZLX1310.eastrmmtao104.cox.net at eastrmimpo02.cox.net>; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400 Received: from Leah ([70.171.100.19]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id 1cKc1c0040R6K2W02cKc5j; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=vnREMb7VAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=L2gErYZ9uM-ZAVPAGPEA:9 a=GD4e_CQjiTZLd1dF5NIA:7 a=Oh9qBsmaPp3wuTywa79W8fnZbB4A:4 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=AAvYLDLOAAAA:8 a=FrKaCueunG8NjPR3uuwA:9 a=43rjAPcKYfkS0xgDtbQA:7 a=EI3DFRbTfXepUGsvSUXURkbhovYA:4 a=d-1ze5jHbJEA:10 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <37134651E3BE44C3B3CB232DDBE63E2D at Leah> From: "Leah Stone" < leahpstone at cox.net> To: "si londe" < silonde at bellsouth.net>, "leon mucasey" < lmucasey at aol.com>, "susan londe" < susan.londe at comcast.net>, "gabrielle stone" < gabrielles at cox.net>, "barbara jeskin" < bjeskin at aol.com>, "brigette cohn" < bcohn63 at aol.com>, "Carole Katz" < cdkatz45 at hotmail.com>, "elinor cohen" < fotobubby at verizon.net>, "barbara weiner" < weiner70003 at cox.net>, "betty zivitz" < BGZ727 at aol.com>, "lynne kullman" < lkullman at cox.net> Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:19:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-AOL-IP: 68.230.240.46 ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable AM Subject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON =20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- = ---- Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:48:55 +1000 ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PM Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON This is beautiful. Shabbat Shalom!=20 Please view this video and forward it onto everyone you=20= know. The hope is to get 1 million views. It has only been on the web for 1 day and is about to hi= t the first 10,000. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DqVM6x4BechI ---------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release=20= Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00 =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. =20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- = ---- Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now..=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- = ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 1= 7:05:00 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- = ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 1= 7:51:00 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- = ---- Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet Explorer=20= 8=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- = ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 0= 7:50:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
AM
Subject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON


 
Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:48:55=20 +1000

 
----- Original Message -----=20
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PM
Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON

 
 
 
 
 
 
 


 





 

This is beautiful.  Shabbat=20 Shalom! 

<= /DIV>
 
Pleas= e view=20 this video and forward it onto everyone you=20 know.
The h= ope is=20 to get 1 million views.
It ha= s only=20 been on the web for 1 day and is about to hit the first=20 10,000.
 




No virus found in this incoming=20 message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com"=20= rel=3Dnofollow> www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.323 / Virus= =20 Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09=20 17:54:00


Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=3DX3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1= fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWd = saW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=3D14600t3ni/** http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagl= ine/creativeholidays/* http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=3Dother%26p2= =3Dau%26p3=3Dmailtagline" rel=3Dnofollow>Enter now..

Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. http://us.= lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=3DX3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCB = MaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHk = DYXVueg--/SIG=3D14600t3ni/** http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholi= days/* http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=3Dother%26p2=3Dau%26p3=3Dmail= tagline">Enter=20 now..=20



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com"> www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Dat= abase:=20 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com"> www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Dat= abase:=20 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 17:51:00

Surfing the web just got more rewarding. http://extras.uk.msn.co= m/internet-explorer-8/?ocid=3DT010MSN07A0716U" target=3D_new>Download the N= ew Internet Explorer 8=20


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20 www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release=20 Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- _____ Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. 3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20 www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release=20 Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- _____ Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/aaf41501/attachment.html From bkgivin at verizon.net Thu Jun 18 20:59:00 2009 From: bkgivin at verizon.net (Betty K Givin) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:59:00 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. In-Reply-To: <5181.68175.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <5181.68175.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <973B2E31CE2842D181DB82DCA433200F@bettylaptop> Yes, I agree, Joe! Toda rabba.Willie did good on this one! Shabbat Shalom to you, Achi! Elisheva/Betty _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Margie Creech Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 8:02 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. Joe, absolutely beautiful. --- On Thu, 6/18/09, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: From: JOE INDOMENICO Subject: [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 7:39 PM Shalom Chaverim, Hanoch, this one is for you. I know your blood pressure is perfect, but this one is to soothe your countdown to Aliyah and the reunion with your daughters and Am Yisrael. For all of us that are stuck, may we be worthy of HaShem's calling and final round up. What a day when we finally get to go home and join together with the true family of HaShem and be ONE with Him. May each and everyone of us merit HaShem's Rachamim and Geulah. http://www.jewtube.com/video/2242/to-live-in-israelthe-promised-land Shabbat Shalom JOE. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090618/386b7563/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 19 03:19:02 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:19:02 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young childrenwiththeTorah Message.] In-Reply-To: References: <4A3999BD.5030208@westnet.com.au><061820090614.4603.4A39DB520005C85D000011FB22230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: <061920090819.9721.4A3B49F50005F1B8000025F922218801869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Again, not to defend evangelism in any way, but most Christians don't really know the cultural, ecumenical, and spiritual impact they have. This is why in most Christian circles, there is no attempt to followup on a parishioner level with a convert, they cannot deal with the biblical questions. The pastor usually handles this, but today, most pastors can't rebutte Judiastic facts, much less yeshua/judiastic facts, they are not studied enough. Nor do they have any clue as to the philosopical leanings of John or Paul. It always boils down to belief, and most of this comes from todays interpretation of Paul and John, which form the dotctrine, it is the doctrine that is important. It's not really important why Paul wrote what he wrote or John wrote what he wrote, I believe that they both lost control over what they were trying to say very early on, they lost control over thier converts and the Roman influence took it over. In the meantime, yeshua's followers, Jamse's people, took to hiding in the desert and became the Ebionites. What Christinity today represents is an amalgum of the revolt against a Roman Pagan accretion of a Pauline marriage of Hellinistic, dualistic influences, coupled with similarly based Hebraic mysticism coupled with a Docetist (which most Christians know nothing about) idea, that Christ is not of this world. The revolt itself retained the fundamental flaws while expurgating the out-facing exponent of paganism. This was the rift between Catholicism and Protestantism In any case, the Jewish concept of conversion is acceptance into a family, the Christian concept is to win another soul for G-d, as though He needed someone to do that for Him. I have read many modern sources and all concur, conversion to Judiasm is accomplished by the example of the people before you. My life has shown me that conversion to Christianity is accomplished by supposed wise-men telling you what to believe at every opportunity and at every turn. I may never convert to Judiasm, but I will choose the former approach regardless. Judah is responsible to us, but they must understand that they are about to get more than they bargained for. YHVH never simply planned for the regathering of Judah, but of all Israel, and I don't believe Judah truly knows what that means. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from patricia robbins : -------------- Hi John, I believe "evangelism" goes far beyond good intentions. Don't forget many actually feel good about praying for the "destruction of the body for the saving of the soul:" "IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, WHEN YE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER, AND MY SPIRIT, WITH THE POWER OF OUR LORD JEUS CHRIST, TO DELIVER SUCH AN ONE UNTO SATAN FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS" I Cor. 5:4-5 THAT'S DISTURBING!!!!!! Or maybe Paul is just being misunderstood........again. May HaShem be our Protector and the Lifter of our heads, Avigail From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:14:42 +0000 Wow, it's soooo disturbing to see this from the perspective I hold now. But I have to tell you, that pastor and his followers absolutely believe that what they are doing is an act of love. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending their actions, only saying that there is no malicious intent there, just ignorent good intentions. They honestly believe G-d brought that boy to them. This is why I have such an aversion to evangelism. They attracted this child to them and think he came of his own accord. We have to be careful lest we become them, I think. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shalom Chaverim, this is what we are up against !!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70gmYw0LdQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.esavexposed.blogspot.com%2F&feature=player_embedded Hanoch, please watch your blood pressure !! I hope this exposes the rues of the world of sheker / lies and gives you the appropriate ammunition in your arsenal of prayer weaponry. Blessed are the children. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/e1f66d41/attachment.html From carlson_john at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 19 03:26:45 2009 From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net (carlson_john at bellsouth.net) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:26:45 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] In-Reply-To: <745989.54031.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <061920090826.14205.4A3B4BC4000BAB0D0000377D22218801869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Yes Margie, But it is not simply a revelation about the Christian approach, it is more of a revelation about the religious approach. I honestly think that this is about each of us developing an INDIVIDUAL relationship with G-d who will in turn forge those relationships together to bring about His plan, we are free to choose at any point. This is not about religion, Islam teaches us that because they choose death. It is about Knowing YHVH, Hearing Him individually, and acting accordingly, without fear of this world. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from Margie Creech : -------------- Eliron, Had I seen that video years ago I would be saying in my ignorance "Way to go!" I thank HaShem that I didn't have much contact with the Jewish community back then or I would have been guilty of the same thing. It's no wonder that many Jews are suspicious of us and many want nothing to do with us. Can't say I blame them. It is laughable to think I actually thought I could teach them a thing or two. I to have an aversion to evangelism now. I thank HaShem as the layers of ingnorance fall off. Margie --- On Thu, 6/18/09, carlson_john at bellsouth.net wrote: From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 1:14 AM Wow, it's soooo disturbing to see this from the perspective I hold now. But I have to tell you, that pastor and his followers absolutely believe that what they are doing is an act of love. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending their actions, only saying that there is no malicious intent there, just ignorent good intentions. They honestly believe G-d brought that boy to them. This is why I have such an aversion to evangelism. They attracted this child to them and think he came of his own accord. We have to be careful lest we become them, I think. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shalom Chaverim, this is what we are up against !!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70gmYw0LdQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.esavexposed.blogspot.com%2F&feature=player_embedded Hanoch, please watch your blood pressure !! I hope this exposes the rues of the world of sheker / lies and gives you the appropriate ammunition in your arsenal of prayer weaponry. Blessed are the children. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/8fab3840/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Fri Jun 19 06:50:06 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 07:50:06 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. In-Reply-To: <4A3ADE5F.8070306@westnet.com.au> References: <4A3ADE5F.8070306@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Sang it again Willie! _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of JOE INDOMENICO Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 8:40 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. Shalom Chaverim, Hanoch, this one is for you. I know your blood pressure is perfect, but this one is to soothe your countdown to Aliyah and the reunion with your daughters and Am Yisrael. For all of us that are stuck, may we be worthy of HaShem's calling and final round up. What a day when we finally get to go home and join together with the true family of HaShem and be ONE with Him. May each and everyone of us merit HaShem's Rachamim and Geulah. http://www.jewtube.com/video/2242/to-live-in-israelthe-promised-land Shabbat Shalom JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/df964b8d/attachment.html From cormary at mts.net Fri Jun 19 06:52:11 2009 From: cormary at mts.net (Cornie Reimer) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 06:52:11 -0500 Subject: [Dialogue] checking my e-mails Message-ID: <4A3B7BEB.6030006@mts.net> Dear Helen and all I wish i could say my sister Tina is doing fine, but i am afraid that is not the case as it seems. She is going from one of her children's home to the other, each time, in most cases at least, they belong to a different church. Yet they are of course all united with the idea that it takes an un-human messiah (Jesus) to be saved. And her having got a glimpse of the folly of it all. ( I am not saying that Christianity does not have anything at all). But to Tina's mind this is all such a blur at this point. If only all those of her family could start to see what a pioneering brave venture this is on her side to dare even to start to think against the grain. And as far as I know, she does not even dare to speak about this to anyone of her family!!!! Some of you may have a picture in your mind that my sister and me have much in common. That is not the case though. I get to see her really quite seldom. We live about 2 hours driving apart. For the last week I have not as much as spoken with her on the phone. I am not sure if she even wants to speak with me now. We have always been close, through out our life, ever since we were torn apart from each other in our childhood years, I was five and she must have been eight, at the time we lost our mother. And although I was allowed to come back home with a new mother five years later, but the rest of my siblings were not allowed back by our step mother. So yes we do have something deep seated that we have in common. But this changing of our belief from something not commonly excepted in Christianity, is a BIG BIG STEP to take. For which I can say I have all of you dear ones who partially understand, to stand by me and even some in Israel, ( a great consolation) but not so for my sister. Most of us Mennonites were so overly sheltered and seemingly protected in the box we were concealed in, that it is really tough to dare to trust anything beside that box. Even though to an extent there is so much disunity among Christianity that they have to find their way through, but to be without the comforting Jesus as a refuge (which they all have in common) is a totally new venture. Your prayers are very dear to me. And I trust that our dear Saviour, Hashem, will have a way to somehow bring healing to my dear sister Tina as well, and who knows how many more, of maybe even my family and hers, she has ten children, and we have eight. I am way behind checking e-mails, please bear with me. I appreciate every one of your responses dearly, even when I likely don't always get to respond, please forgive my negligence. I realize that what many of us, many of you included, experience is where the work of Hashem is very much in concealment at this time for a reason we don't always understand. But once the light will shine through these clouds of His concealment it will be glorious. Praise to His name. Shabat Salom Cornie Dear Cornie: I can really understand how perturbed your dear sister must be. It is not easy to change from all that you have been taught all of your life and have also passed on to your children. In the end if we are sincerely searching, we have to cry out to Hashem, the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and ask Him to show us His truth. He always answers when we are sincere and wholly searching for Him. I am praying for Tina and her family to find this truth. So glad she has you to help and encourage her, Cornie, just as she was always there for you and tried to understand your change and journey in understanding of the scriptures. May Hashem bless and guide you all. I hope perhaps Tina might consider joining our dialogue group. Shaloma and kind regards, Helen (Avigail Sara) From mhyde7 at tds.net Fri Jun 19 07:06:27 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:06:27 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON In-Reply-To: <83F140E2A09B40F8ADDA1BA1AE10E3E7@bettylaptop> References: <2774E1B3E1A0564DB7E7C2336D34376C15A4024C61@msgcpla090a.corpmsg.com> <83F140E2A09B40F8ADDA1BA1AE10E3E7@bettylaptop> Message-ID: Could not agree more Betty. Even though I have never been to the good ole days at Joe's. But I know what you mean. I find it so amazing, the feeling, the emotion, I get every time I hear something like this song. It's being song in "tongues" and I don't understand the words, but it speaks to something deep in my spirit / soul and yes it brings tears to my eyes also. One can only imagine what Hashem has in store for us! Shalom, marvin _____ From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Betty K Givin Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:57 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON Very, very moving and spirit-filled.brought tears to my eyes! The spirit behind the singing took me back to some of the "old days" at Joe's! I wanted to download it, but was unable to. Thanks so much, Ross for sending Elisheva/Betty _____ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVM6x4BechI _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00 _____ Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now. . _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/877f3a01/attachment.html From mhyde7 at tds.net Fri Jun 19 07:21:19 2009 From: mhyde7 at tds.net (mhyde) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:21:19 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] FW: The Letter Glenn Beck Read on National TV... Message-ID: A friend from down at the Alamo sent this, even if you disagree with it's author, the bumper stickers are a hoot! marvin Submit Your Own Headlines at PatriotUpdate.com ! The following letter, read on Glenn Beck's show, is rapidly circulating around the country. Americans everywhere identify with this 53-year-old woman. She has given us a voice. Once you read this, you will want to forward it to all of your friends... GLENN BECK: I got a letter from a woman in Arizona. She writes an open letter to our nation's leadership: I'm a home grown American citizen, 53, registered Democrat all my life. Before the last presidential election I registered as a Republican because I no longer felt the Democratic Party represents my views or works to pursue issues important to me. Now I no longer feel the Republican Party represents my views or works to pursue issues important to me. The fact is I no longer feel any political party or representative in Washington represents my views or works to pursue the issues important to me. There must be someone. Please tell me who you are. Please stand up and tell me that you are there and that you're willing to fight for our Constitution as it was written. Please stand up now. You might ask yourself what my views and issues are that I would horribly feel so disenfranchised by both major political parties. What kind of nut job am I? Will you please tell me? Well, these are briefly my views and issues for which I seek representation: Get Glenn Beck's New Book... Common Sense: The Case Against an Out-of-Control Government. "If you believe it's time to put principles above parties, character above campaign promises, and Common Sense above all -- then I ask you to read this book...." In any era, great Americans inspire us to reach our full potential. They know with conviction what they believe within themselves. They understand that all actions have consequences. And they find commonsense solutions to the nation's problems. One such American, Thomas Paine, was an ordinary man who changed the course of history by penning Common Sense, the concise 1776 masterpiece in which, through extraordinarily straightforward and indisputable arguments, he encouraged his fellow citizens to take control of America's future -- and, ultimately, her freedom. Nearly two and a half centuries later, those very freedoms once again hang in the balance. And now, Glenn Beck revisits Paine's powerful treatise with one purpose: to galvanize Americans to see past government's easy solutions, two-part monopoly, and illogical methods and take back our great country. Glenn Beck is the author of the #1 New York Times bestsellers The Christmas Sweater and An Inconvenient Book. He is also the author of The Real America and publisher of Fusion magazine. He is the host of a tv show on FoxNews and also the nationally syndicated radio show The Glenn Beck Program, which is the third most listened to talk show in America. Paperback, 192 pages. Retail: $11.99 NOW ONLY $9.99 with a Free "Love Your Country, Fear Your Government" Bumper Sticker! ORDER BOOK & FREE BUMPER STICKER NOW! One, illegal immigration. I want you to stop coddling illegal immigrants and secure our borders. Close the underground tunnels. Stop the violence and the trafficking in drugs and people. No amnesty, not again. Been there, done that, no resolution. P.S., I'm not a racist. This isn't to be confused with legal immigration. Two, the TARP bill, I want it repealed and I want no further funding supplied to it. We told you no, but you did it anyway. I want the remaining unfunded 95% repealed. Freeze, repeal. Three: Czars, I want the circumvention of our checks and balances stopped immediately. Fire the czars. No more czars. Government officials answer to the process, not to the president. Stop trampling on our Constitution and honor it. Four, cap and trade. The debate on global warming is not over. There is more to say. Five, universal healthcare. I will not be rushed into another expensive decision. Don't you dare try to pass this in the middle of the night and then go on break. Slow down! Six, growing government control. I want states rights and sovereignty fully restored. I want less government in my life, not more. Shrink it down. Mind your own business. You have enough to take care of with your real obligations. Why don't you start there. Seven, ACORN. I do not want ACORN and its affiliates in charge of our 2010 census. I want them investigated. I also do not want mandatory escrow fees contributed to them every time on every real estate deal that closes. Stop the funding to ACORN and its affiliates pending impartial audits and investigations. I do not trust them with taking the census over with our taxpayer money. I don't trust them with our taxpayer money. Face up to the allegations against them and get it resolved before taxpayers get any more involved with them. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, hello. Stop protecting your political buddies. You work for us, the people. Investigate. Eight, redistribution of wealth. No, no, no. I work for my money. It is mine. I have always worked for people with more money than I have because they gave me jobs. That is the only redistribution of wealth that I will support. I never got a job from a poor person. Why do you want me to hate my employers? Why -- what do you have against shareholders making a profit? Nine, charitable contributions. Although I never got a job from a poor person, I have helped many in need. Charity belongs in our local communities, where we know our needs best and can use our local talent and our local resources. Butt out, please. We want to do it ourselves. Ten, corporate bailouts. Knock it off. Sink or swim like the rest of us. If there are hard times ahead, we'll be better off just getting into it and letting the strong survive. Quick and painful. Have you ever ripped off a Band-Aid? We will pull together. Great things happen in America under great hardship. Give us the chance to innovate. We cannot disappoint you more than you have disappointed us. Eleven, transparency and accountability. How about it? No, really, how about it? Let's have it. Let's say we give the buzzwords a rest and have some straight honest talk. Please try -- please stop manipulating and trying to appease me with clever wording. I am not the idiot you obviously take me for. Stop sneaking around and meeting in back rooms making deals with your friends. It will only be a prelude to your criminal investigation. Stop hiding things from me. Twelve, unprecedented quick spending. Stop it now. Take a breath. Listen to the people. Let's just slow down and get some input from some nonpoliticians on the subject. Stop making everything an emergency. Stop speed reading our bills into law. I am not an activist. I am not a community organizer. Nor am I a terrorist, a militant or a violent person. I am a parent and a grandparent. I work. I'm busy. I'm busy. I am busy, and I am tired. I thought we elected competent people to take care of the business of government so that we could work, raise our families, pay our bills, have a little recreation, complain about taxes, endure our hardships, pursue our personal goals, cut our lawn, wash our cars on the weekends and be responsible contributing members of society and teach our children to be the same all while living in the home of the free and land of the brave. I entrusted you with upholding the Constitution. I believed in the checks and balances to keep from getting far off course. What happened? You are very far off course. Do you really think I find humor in the hiring of a speed reader to unintelligently ramble all through a bill that you signed into law without knowing what it contained? I do not. It is a mockery of the responsibility I have entrusted to you. It is a slap in the face. I am not laughing at your arrogance. Why is it that I feel as if you would not trust me to make a single decision about my own life and how I would live it but you should expect that I should trust you with the debt that you have laid on all of us and our children. We did not want the TARP bill. We said no. We would repeal it if we could. I am sure that we still cannot. There is such urgency and recklessness in all of the recent spending. >From my perspective, it seems that all of you have gone insane. I also know that I am far from alone in these feelings. Do you honestly feel that your current pursuits have merit to patriotic Americans? We want it to stop. We want to put the brakes on everything that is being rushed by us and forced upon us. We want our voice back. You have forced us to put our lives on hold to straighten out the mess that you are making. We will have to give up our vacations, our time spent with our children, any relaxation time we may have had and money we cannot afford to spend on you to bring our concerns to Washington. Our president often knows all the right buzzword is unsustainable. Well, no kidding. How many tens of thousands of dollars did the focus group cost to come up with that word? We don't want your overpriced words. Stop treating us like we're morons. We want all of you to stop focusing on your reelection and do the job we want done, not the job you want done or the job your party wants done. You work for us and at this rate I guarantee you not for long because we are coming. We will be heard and we will be represented. You think we're so busy with our lives that we will never come for you? We are the formerly silent majority, all of us who quietly work , pay taxes, obey the law, vote, save money, keep our noses to the grindstone and we are now looking up at you. You have awakened us, the patriotic spirit so strong and so powerful that it had been sleeping too long. You have pushed us too far. Our numbers are great. They may surprise you. For every one of us who will be there, there will be hundreds more that could not come. Unlike you, we have their trust. We will represent them honestly, rest assured. They will be at the polls on voting day to usher you out of office. We have cancelled vacations. We will use our last few dollars saved. We will find the representation among us and a grassroots campaign will flourish. We didn't ask for this fight. But the gloves are coming off. We do not come in violence, but we are angry. You will represent us or you will be replaced with someone who will. There are candidates among us when he will rise like a Phoenix from the ashes that you have made of our constitution. Democrat, Republican, independent, libertarian. Understand this. We don't care. Political parties are meaningless to us. Patriotic Americans are willing to do right by us and our Constitution and that is all that matters to us now. We are going to fire all of you who abuse power and seek more. It is not your power. It is ours and we want it back. We entrusted you with it and you abused it. You are dishonorable. You are dishonest. As Americans we are ashamed of you. You have brought shame to us. If you are not representing the wants and needs of your constituency loudly and consistently, in spite of the objections of your party, you will be fired. Did you hear? We no longer care about your political parties. You need to be loyal to us, not to them. Because we will get you fired and they will not save you. If you do or can represent me, my issues, my views, please stand up. Make your identity known. You need to make some noise about it. Speak up. I need to know who you are. If you do not speak up, you will be herded out with the rest of the sheep and we will replace the whole damn congress if need be one by one. We are coming. Are we coming for you? Who do you represent? What do you represent? Listen. Because we are coming. We the people are coming. Four New Bumper Stickers Just Released... 2-PACKS ONLY $9.95 WITH FREE SHIPPING! JUNE SUPER SPECIAL: Pick Any 5 Bumper Stickers for ONLY $10! The mission of The Patriot Depot is to rescue our country from the tyrannical clutches of the Left. One way we can do this is to send powerful conservative messages to our fellow citizens. These bumper stickers rally the conservative base and might convince fellow Americans duped by Liberals to rethink their beliefs. That's why we are offering this very special deal...Pick any of five bumper stickers for ONLY $10! - We have several more from which to choose! Retail: $25.00 . ONLY $10 . PICK FIVE NOW! Check out our HUGE Selection of Bumper Sticker 2-PACKS & 3-PACKS... 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Dallas, GA 30127 Forward email Safe Unsubscribe This email was sent to msovereign at farmersagent.com by mail at discountbookdistributors.com. Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe T | Privacy Policy. Email Marketing by The Patriot Depot: A Division of Discount Book Distributors | 457 Nathan Dean BLVD | Suite 105-372 | Dallas | GA | 30132 _____ Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing T now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/663f30f2/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "The Patriot Depot" Subject: The Letter Glenn Beck Read on National TV... Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:33:09 -0400 Size: 92662 Url: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/663f30f2/attachment.mht From rlibby03 at maine.rr.com Fri Jun 19 11:46:18 2009 From: rlibby03 at maine.rr.com (Dick L) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:46:18 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON References: <2774E1B3E1A0564DB7E7C2336D34376C15A4024C61@msgcpla090a.corpmsg.com> <83F140E2A09B40F8ADDA1BA1AE10E3E7@bettylaptop> Message-ID: <016501c9f0fd$78365ab0$6e01a8c0@user57kkpmrfo8> Yes Betty its very moving. Love it. Dick L ----- Original Message ----- From: Betty K Givin To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:57 PM Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON Very, very moving and spirit-filled.brought tears to my eyes! The spirit behind the singing took me back to some of the "old days" at Joe's! I wanted to download it, but was unable to. Thanks so much, Ross for sending Elisheva/Betty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 17:51:00 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet Explorer 8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00 Return-Path: Received: from rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (rly-mc06.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.90]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMC072-d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:45 -0400Received: from eastrmmtao104.cox.net (eastrmmtao104.cox.net [68.230.240.46]) by rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMC065-d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:37 -0400Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao104.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090609001936.BZLX1310.eastrmmtao104.cox.net at eastrmimpo02.cox.net>; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400Received: from Leah ([70.171.100.19]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id 1cKc1c0040R6K2W02cKc5j; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400X-VR-Score: -100.00X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=vnREMb7VAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=L2gErYZ9uM-ZAVPAGPEA:9 a=GD4e_CQjiTZLd1dF5NIA:7 a=Oh9qBsmaPp3wuTywa79W8fnZbB4A:4 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=AAvYLDLOAAAA:8 a=FrKaCueunG8NjPR3uuwA:9 a=43rjAPcKYfkS0xgDtbQA:7 a=EI3DFRbTfXepUGsvSUXURkbhovYA:4 a=d-1ze5jHbJEA:10X-CM-Score: 0.00Message-ID: <37134651E3BE44C3B3CB232DDBE63E2D at Leah>From: "Leah Stone" To: "si londe" , "leon mucasey" , "susan londe" , "gabrielle stone" , "barbara jeskin" , "brigette cohn" , "Carole Katz" , "elinor cohen" , "barbara weiner" , "betty zivitz" , "lynne kullman" Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ONDate: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:19:44 -0500MIME-Version: 1.0Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80"X-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579X-AOL-IP: 68.230.240.46 ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable AMSubject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=----Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ONDate: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:48:55 +1000 ----- Original Message -----=20Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PMSubject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON This is beautiful. Shabbat Shalom!=20 Please view this video and forward it onto everyone you=20=know. The hope is to get 1 million views. It has only been on the web for 1 day and is about to hi=t the first 10,000. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DqVM6x4BechI ---------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release=20=Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00 =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=----Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now..=20----------------------------------------------------------------------------=---- No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 1=7:05:00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=---- No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 1=7:51:00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=----Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet Explorer=20=8=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=---- No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 0=7:50:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
AM
Subject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON


 
Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:48:55=20+1000

 
----- Original Message -----=20
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PM
Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON

 
 
 
 
 
 
 


 





 

This is beautiful.  Shabbat=20 Shalom! 

<=/DIV>
 
Pleas=e view=20 this video and forward it onto everyone you=20 know.
The h=ope is=20 to get 1 million views.
It ha=s only=20 been on the web for 1 day and is about to hit the first=20 10,000.
 




No virus found in this incoming=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.323 / Virus==20 Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09=20 17:54:00


Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now..

Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter=20now..=20



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Dat=abase:=20270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00



No virus found in this incoming message.
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Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Dat=abase:=20270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 17:51:00

Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the N=ew Internet Explorer 8=20


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release=20Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. 3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>


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------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/177f8545/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 12:03:04 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:03:04 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. In-Reply-To: <973B2E31CE2842D181DB82DCA433200F@bettylaptop> References: <5181.68175.qm@web58504.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <973B2E31CE2842D181DB82DCA433200F@bettylaptop> Message-ID: I've always loved Willie's music! This is wonderful, Joe. Thank you so much. Avigail From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:59:00 -0500 Yes, I agree, Joe! Toda rabba?Willie did good on this one! Shabbat Shalom to you, Achi! Elisheva/Betty From: dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto:dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] On Behalf Of Margie Creech Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 8:02 PM To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. Joe, absolutely beautiful. --- On Thu, 6/18/09, JOE INDOMENICO wrote: From: JOE INDOMENICO Subject: [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 7:39 PM Shalom Chaverim, Hanoch, this one is for you. I know your blood pressure is perfect, but this one is to soothe your countdown to Aliyah and the reunion with your daughters and Am Yisrael. For all of us that are stuck, may we be worthy of HaShem's calling and final round up. What a day when we finally get to go home and join together with the true family of HaShem and be ONE with Him. May each and everyone of us merit HaShem's Rachamim and Geulah. http://www.jewtube.com/video/2242/to-live-in-israelthe-promised-land Shabbat Shalom JOE. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/94316efa/attachment.html From oneillcody at yahoo.com Fri Jun 19 12:16:40 2009 From: oneillcody at yahoo.com (Cody) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] MOISE FEIGLIN GIVES JEWISH RESPONSE Message-ID: <228585.74973.qm@web37301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW0X84-Iqx4&feature=related -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/d81d4599/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 12:20:20 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:20:20 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] In-Reply-To: <703916.63426.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <4A3999BD.5030208@westnet.com.au> <061820090614.4603.4A39DB520005C85D000011FB22230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <703916.63426.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Tracy. Yours is a good way to look at Paul's words. I will send you my private address, and am most appreciative for your gift, that I may gain an appreciation of Paul that I lost when I began to see things in light of Christianity's paganism and Paul's apparent battle against the Jews. Your words below, added to his, give a different slant indeed. I would love to think you correct in your trust of his good intentions. Actually, I think he most likely had good intentions, but said some really (apparently) bad things concerning Judah and Torah. Thank you for this dialogue and for you love and concern. Avigail Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:06:36 -0700 From: tposborne77 at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Yes, Dear Pat/Avigail {if you would privately send me your address, I have a gift to send you, I think about you often}, yes Hakham Shaul is misunderstood by many, if not most, quite understandably due to so much disinformation, With your indulgence, please, if I may attempt to remove the Greekism and Churchism and Ebionism from this Most Blessed Shliach of His Majesty Yeshua Ha Mashiach, Hakham/Rabbi Shaul, by the Will of the Most High - who is The One and Only Y*A*H*U*W*E*H - E*Lo*heem of Avraham, Yitshach, and Ya'acov/Yisrael (who raised His Mashiach from the grave / The Firstfruits of ALL ISRAEL!) Blessed be HE!!!!!!!!!!!! "IN THE NAME/Authority OF OUR Master Yeshua HaMashiach [who is the embodiment of All Israel], WHEN YE [Orthodox Hakhamim/Rabbis] ARE GATHERED TOGETHER [in Beit Din Council], AND MY SPIRIT, WITH THE POWER OF OUR Master Yeshua HaMashiach, TO DELIVER SUCH AN ONE [who is fornicating with his father's wife] UNTO SATAN FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH [lest, like Achan he destroy this entire congregation of Israel], THAT [hopefully he comes to repentance and his] THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE [HASHEM - executed by His Mashiach/Agent/The Branch] Master Yeshua [ben Yosef ben David]" I Cor. 5:4-5 After this sinner's repentance, the wisdom of His Eminence, Hakham Shaul becomes evident: 2Co 2:6 Sufficient to such a man [this is the same man fornicating with his father's wife and now has repented] is this punishment, which was inflicted of many [beit din and congregation]. 2Co 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. 2Co 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him. 2Co 2:9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things. 2Co 2:10 To whom ye [beit din and congregation] forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person [as as Shliach/Agent] of Mashiach; 2Co 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us [ALL ISRAEL]: for we are not ignorant of his devices. Chesed v'Shalom, Tracy Osborne www.OnHigh.org From: patricia robbins To: "dialogue at rootsoffaith.org" Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:28:22 AM Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] Hi John, I believe "evangelism" goes far beyond good intentions. Don't forget many actually feel good about praying for the "destruction of the body for the saving of the soul:" "IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, WHEN YE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER, AND MY SPIRIT, WITH THE POWER OF OUR LORD JEUS CHRIST, TO DELIVER SUCH AN ONE UNTO SATAN FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS" I Cor. 5:4-5 THAT'S DISTURBING!!!!!! Or maybe Paul is just being misunderstood........again. May HaShem be our Protector and the Lifter of our heads, Avigail From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:14:42 +0000 Wow, it's soooo disturbing to see this from the perspective I hold now. But I have to tell you, that pastor and his followers absolutely believe that what they are doing is an act of love. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending their actions, only saying that there is no malicious intent there, just ignorent good intentions. They honestly believe G-d brought that boy to them. This is why I have such an aversion to evangelism. They attracted this child to them and think he came of his own accord. We have to be careful lest we become them, I think. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shalom Chaverim, this is what we are up against !!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70gmYw0LdQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.esavexposed.blogspot.com%2F&feature=player_embedded Hanoch, please watch your blood pressure !! I hope this exposes the rues of the world of sheker / lies and gives you the appropriate ammunition in your arsenal of prayer weaponry. Blessed are the children. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/b965af01/attachment.html From youngbarzel at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 12:20:33 2009 From: youngbarzel at gmail.com (Hanoch Young) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:20:33 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. In-Reply-To: References: <4A3ADE5F.8070306@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <855590370906191020u741f76bbu4bcd505772b87ef2@mail.gmail.com> It's beautiful Joe, thank you *very* much; I really can't believe that this is all happening...I keep pinching myself to make sure I'm actually awake! Shabbat Shalom Achi, * Hanoch * On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 7:50 AM, mhyde wrote: > Sang it again Willie! > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org [mailto: > dialogue-bounces at rootsoffaith.org] *On Behalf Of *JOE INDOMENICO > *Sent:* Thursday, June 18, 2009 8:40 PM > *To:* dialogue at rootsoffaith.org > *Subject:* [Dialogue] THE PROMISED LAND. > > > > *Shalom Chaverim, > > Hanoch, this one is for you. > I know your blood pressure is perfect, but this one is to soothe your > countdown to Aliyah and the reunion with your daughters and Am Yisrael. > > For all of us that are stuck, may we be worthy of HaShem's calling and > final round up. > What a day when we finally get to go home and join together with the true > family of HaShem and be ONE with Him. > May each and everyone of us merit HaShem's Rachamim and Geulah. > > *http://www.jewtube.com/video/2242/to-live-in-israelthe-promised-land > > *Shabbat Shalom > JOE.* > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/def5594f/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 13:08:23 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:08:23 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young childrenwiththeTorah Message.] In-Reply-To: <061920090819.9721.4A3B49F50005F1B8000025F922218801869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> References: <4A3999BD.5030208@westnet.com.au><061820090614.4603.4A39DB520005C85D000011FB22230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> <061920090819.9721.4A3B49F50005F1B8000025F922218801869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF02080106A102019C049D0E0C@att.net> Message-ID: Well said, John, and I hardily agree with you. There will be an ingathering becase HaShem said so, but the Jews will have a lot on their plates!!!!! It makes me very sad to think of scenes such as we saw on the video of the proud Dallas preacher who had, by stealth, taken a child's heritage, and I pray that will not become commonplace in the Land, though I know there are many missionaries hard at work there right now, trying to do that very thing. Like that preacher said, "There are many Jews who are both" (idolaters and Jews), but that doesn't keep it from being wrong. Avigail From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young childrenwiththeTorah Message.] Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:19:02 +0000 Again, not to defend evangelism in any way, but most Christians don't really know the cultural, ecumenical, and spiritual impact they have. This is why in most Christian circles, there is no attempt to followup on a parishioner level with a convert, they cannot deal with the biblical questions. The pastor usually handles this, but today, most pastors can't rebutte Judiastic facts, much less yeshua/judiastic facts, they are not studied enough. Nor do they have any clue as to the philosopical leanings of John or Paul. It always boils down to belief, and most of this comes from todays interpretation of Paul and John, which form the dotctrine, it is the doctrine that is important. It's not really important why Paul wrote what he wrote or John wrote what he wrote, I believe that they both lost control over what they were trying to say very early on, they lost control over thier converts and the Roman influence took it over. In the meantime, yeshua's followers, Jamse's people, took to hiding in the desert and became the Ebionites. What Christinity today represents is an amalgum of the revolt against a Roman Pagan accretion of a Pauline marriage of Hellinistic, dualistic influences, coupled with similarly based Hebraic mysticism coupled with a Docetist (which most Christians know nothing about) idea, that Christ is not of this world. The revolt itself retained the fundamental flaws while expurgating the out-facing exponent of paganism. This was the rift between Catholicism and Protestantism In any case, the Jewish concept of conversion is acceptance into a family, the Christian concept is to win another soul for G-d, as though He needed someone to do that for Him. I have read many modern sources and all concur, conversion to Judiasm is accomplished by the example of the people before you. My life has shown me that conversion to Christianity is accomplished by supposed wise-men telling you what to believe at every opportunity and at every turn. I may never convert to Judiasm, but I will choose the former approach regardless. Judah is responsible to us, but they must understand that they are about to get more than they bargained for. YHVH never simply planned for the regathering of Judah, but of all Israel, and I don't believe Judah truly knows what that means. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from patricia robbins : -------------- Hi John, I believe "evangelism" goes far beyond good intentions. Don't forget many actually feel good about praying for the "destruction of the body for the saving of the soul:" "IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, WHEN YE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER, AND MY SPIRIT, WITH THE POWER OF OUR LORD JEUS CHRIST, TO DELIVER SUCH AN ONE UNTO SATAN FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS" I Cor. 5:4-5 THAT'S DISTURBING!!!!!! Or maybe Paul is just being misunderstood........again. May HaShem be our Protector and the Lifter of our heads, Avigail From: carlson_john at bellsouth.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Dialogue] John, Sandra, Ways to reach young children withtheTorah Message.] Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:14:42 +0000 Wow, it's soooo disturbing to see this from the perspective I hold now. But I have to tell you, that pastor and his followers absolutely believe that what they are doing is an act of love. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending their actions, only saying that there is no malicious intent there, just ignorent good intentions. They honestly believe G-d brought that boy to them. This is why I have such an aversion to evangelism. They attracted this child to them and think he came of his own accord. We have to be careful lest we become them, I think. -- Eliron/John. "Be excellent to each other!" Bill and Ted -------------- Original message from JOE INDOMENICO : -------------- Shalom Chaverim, this is what we are up against !!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70gmYw0LdQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.esavexposed.blogspot.com%2F&feature=player_embedded Hanoch, please watch your blood pressure !! I hope this exposes the rues of the world of sheker / lies and gives you the appropriate ammunition in your arsenal of prayer weaponry. Blessed are the children. Shalom v'Ahavah JOE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/895fa5dc/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 13:35:16 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:35:16 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON In-Reply-To: <83F140E2A09B40F8ADDA1BA1AE10E3E7@bettylaptop> References: <2774E1B3E1A0564DB7E7C2336D34376C15A4024C61@msgcpla090a.corpmsg.com> <83F140E2A09B40F8ADDA1BA1AE10E3E7@bettylaptop> Message-ID: Yes, thank you, Ross. Avigail From: bkgivin at verizon.net To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: RE: [Dialogue] Fwd: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:57:23 -0500 Very, very moving and spirit-filled?brought tears to my eyes! The spirit behind the singing took me back to some of the ?old days? at Joe?s! I wanted to download it, but was unable to. Thanks so much, Ross for sending Elisheva/Betty http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVM6x4BechI No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00 Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 17:51:00 Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet Explorer 8 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00 Return-Path: Received: from rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (rly-mc06.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.90]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMC072-d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:45 -0400Received: from eastrmmtao104.cox.net (eastrmmtao104.cox.net [68.230.240.46]) by rly-mc06.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMC065-d7d4a2daa999e; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:37 -0400Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao104.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090609001936.BZLX1310.eastrmmtao104.cox.net at eastrmimpo02.cox.net>; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400Received: from Leah ([70.171.100.19]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id 1cKc1c0040R6K2W02cKc5j; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:36 -0400X-VR-Score: -100.00X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=vnREMb7VAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=L2gErYZ9uM-ZAVPAGPEA:9 a=GD4e_CQjiTZLd1dF5NIA:7 a=Oh9qBsmaPp3wuTywa79W8fnZbB4A:4 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=AAvYLDLOAAAA:8 a=FrKaCueunG8NjPR3uuwA:9 a=43rjAPcKYfkS0xgDtbQA:7 a=EI3DFRbTfXepUGsvSUXURkbhovYA:4 a=d-1ze5jHbJEA:10X-CM-Score: 0.00Message-ID: <37134651E3BE44C3B3CB232DDBE63E2D at Leah>From: "Leah Stone" To: "si londe" , "leon mucasey" , "susan londe" , "gabrielle stone" , "barbara jeskin" , "brigette cohn" , "Carole Katz" , "elinor cohen" , "barbara weiner" , "betty zivitz" , "lynne kullman" Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ONDate: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:19:44 -0500MIME-Version: 1.0Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80"X-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579X-AOL-IP: 68.230.240.46 ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable AMSubject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=----Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ONDate: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:48:55 +1000 ----- Original Message -----=20Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PMSubject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON This is beautiful. Shabbat Shalom!=20 Please view this video and forward it onto everyone you=20=know. The hope is to get 1 million views. It has only been on the web for 1 day and is about to hi=t the first 10,000. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DqVM6x4BechI ---------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release=20=Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00 =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=----Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now..=20----------------------------------------------------------------------------=---- No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 1=7:05:00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=---- No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 1=7:51:00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=----Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the New Internet Explorer=20=8=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=---- No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 0=7:50:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
AM
Subject: FW: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON


 
Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:48:55=20+1000

 
----- Original Message -----=20
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:50 PM
Subject: Fw: Oseh Shalom...Sound ON

 
 
 
 
 
 
 


 





 

This is beautiful.  Shabbat=20 Shalom! 

<=/DIV>
 
Pleas=e view=20 this video and forward it onto everyone you=20 know.
The h=ope is=20 to get 1 million views.
It ha=s only=20 been on the web for 1 day and is about to hit the first=20 10,000.
 




No virus found in this incoming=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.323 / Virus==20 Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09=20 17:54:00


Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now..

Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter=20now..=20



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Dat=abase:=20270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Dat=abase:=20270.12.36/2127 - Release Date: 05/21/09 17:51:00

Surfing the web just got more rewarding. Download the N=ew Internet Explorer 8=20


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release=20Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. 3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release=20Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C9E86E.14CB3C80-- Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/415a91f3/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 13:38:47 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:38:47 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM In-Reply-To: <1c8dbb6e0906181935v205f1b2bp22c1de8057f2785d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4FA128FD212C456CBBF08227816A4A38@bettylaptop> <1c8dbb6e0906181935v205f1b2bp22c1de8057f2785d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Shabbat Shalom, Kim! So happy to hear from you. May your Sabbath rest be full of peace and may HaShem's well-being envelope you and yours. Avigail Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:35:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Hello friends, I am just on for a minute. I don't want to "push it". Thank you so much for your prayers and understanding. I am feeling somewhat better ... looking forward to Shabbat rest. I haven't gone through all the email yet, but hope to spend some time doing that Sat. and Sun. p.m. I am looking forward to "catching up". Early Shabbat Shalom, Kim On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Betty K Givin wrote: Dear friends, Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after she posted the event regarding praying for our children. But she really is unable to do so. She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and is supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today?.the doctor wants her to rest and take it easy for 5 days?a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on line. She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable. She really misses keeping up with all the posts. I told her that I would send a post out to explain. She didn?t ask for prayer, but she could really use it! Thanks and love you all, Elisheva/Betty _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/3b18e244/attachment.html From patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 13:50:41 2009 From: patriciarobbinz at hotmail.com (patricia robbins) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:50:41 -0400 Subject: [Dialogue] MOISE FEIGLIN GIVES JEWISH RESPONSE In-Reply-To: <228585.74973.qm@web37301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <228585.74973.qm@web37301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Fabulous, Cody! May Jonathan Pollard be released NOW! That is something decent o could do. Avigail Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:16:40 -0700 From: oneillcody at yahoo.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Subject: [Dialogue] MOISE FEIGLIN GIVES JEWISH RESPONSE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW0X84-Iqx4&feature=related -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/50f3d46e/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Fri Jun 19 14:08:28 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM Message-ID: <513449.3281.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A major DITTO from me too Kim.? Shabbat Shalom,? Susan --- On Fri, 6/19/09, patricia robbins wrote: From: patricia robbins Subject: RE: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM To: "dialogue at rootsoffaith.org" Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 1:38 PM #yiv362337835 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv362337835 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Shabbat Shalom, Kim!? So happy to hear from you.??May your Sabbath rest be full of peace and may HaShem's well-being envelope you and yours. ? Avigail ? Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:35:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [Dialogue] APOLOGIES FROM KIM From: kimalvarado3265 at gmail.com To: dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Hello friends, I am just on for a minute. I don't want to "push it". ? Thank you so much for your prayers and understanding. ?I am feeling somewhat better ... looking forward to Shabbat rest. ? I haven't gone through all the email yet, but hope to spend some time doing that Sat. and Sun. p.m. ?I am looking forward to "catching up". Early Shabbat Shalom, Kim On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Betty K Givin wrote: Dear friends, ? Kim is feeling bad about not being able to get on line, especially after she posted the event regarding praying for our children.? But she really is unable to do so.? She has been in pain with her back for over a week now, went to the doctor today and got some pain medication, muscle relaxer and is supposed to pick up an anti-inflammatory med today?.the doctor wants her to rest and take it easy for 5 days?a little bit hard with a 5 yr. old and having to work. She said that sitting is the worst thing besides driving that she can do, so it might be awhile before she is able to get back on line.? She now has a big bad headache, so is feeling pretty miserable.? She really misses keeping up with all the posts.? I told her that I would send a post out to explain.? ? She didn?t ask for prayer, but she could really use it! ? Thanks and love you all, ? Elisheva/Betty ? _______________________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rootsoffaith.org/pipermail/dialogue/attachments/20090619/29018313/attachment.html From beartrm at yahoo.com Fri Jun 19 14:51:07 2009 From: beartrm at yahoo.com (susan strickland) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dialogue] checking my e-mails Message-ID: <624354.46995.qm@web33305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Cornie, ? ? My heart goes out to your sister Tina.? She and you will be in my prayers.? I too know how you are feeling as many in this group do.? My one comfort is that I thank HaShem for finding me special enough to share His truth with.? When I think abt. it I am overwhelmed with gratitude that the veil has been lifted from my eyes.? What an awesome journey He has set before us.? With every new revelation my heart soars with unabounding joy.? I guess this is what keeps me going in spite of all the people and family that think I have lost it. ? You and Tina will be in my prayers and may HaShem continue to fill your hearts with His?love. ? Shabbat Shalom, ?Susan --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Cornie Reimer wrote: From: Cornie Reimer Subject: [Dialogue] checking my e-mails To: Dialogue at rootsoffaith.org Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 6:52 AM Dear Helen and all I wish i could say my sister Tina is doing fine, but i am afraid that is not the case as it seems. She is going from one of her children's home to the other, each time, in most cases at least, they belong to a different church. Yet they are of course all united